#did you all learn LITERALLY NOTHING from s5?

[bronx-bomber87]

Happy Wednesday Fandom :) It's crazy we are over ten eps in s5 already. Just means we're closer to this premiere yay. (it's 34 btw...) I adore this episode. I think it’s highly underrated because it’s the episode before 5x12. There are so many reasons to love this one. Flirty times, Return of Genny and Lucy, We get a taste of them as parents in this one and Lucy is a Grade A BAMF. Let us get started.

5x11 The Naked and The Dead

We start out with Tim being perplexed by the new coffee machine. Asking what was wrong with the old one? Being her grumpy old man about it. Nolan and Lucy start listing off reasons. Like led levels and Lucy mentions a mice infestation. Eww lol The growth in this scene is pretty cute though. It's how he easily steps aside to let her do it for him. No fight in him about it whatsoever. Just lets wifey do her thing.

How far we’ve come. She shows him how to do it and he is impressed with her. What else is new? heh But he's extra impressed cause she is girl now hehe Lucy tells him she learned from a clip talk tutorial on how to do it. John asks what they got up to last night? Tim on the instant defensive. Says ‘Nothing.’ way too quickly.

My god Timothy it’s a good thing it’s Nolan and not Nyla. Captain clueless over here doesn’t suspect a thing thankfully. Lucy of course is far more prepared than her boyfriend is. Because well it’s Lucy. I adore her being so smooth about it. Doesn't miss a beat. Hands her man his coffee as she easily delivers her cover story. Honestly if anyone was going to blow their cover it was Tim LOL

John dips out and thanks Lucy for the bar and the recommendation. Minute he’s gone Lucy gives him such crap for his terrible answer. Saying he had all morning to come up with a cover story and that was it? Tim defending himself saying Nolan bought it. Yeah cause it’s Nolan... Had it been anyone else in their orbit they would’ve been caught. Lucy is judging him so hard for this. I love it so much. Such a wifey moment right here.

Tim challenges her and asks what Nolan has follow up questions? Lucy confidently telling him she read the catalog cover to cover. Of course she did. I expect nothing less tbh. Neither should you Tim ha His reaction is the best. Like if you weren’t my girlfriend be calling you a nerd right now. But we all know he loves his nerd and her brain. Her intelligence/intense drive is one of the reasons he fell for her. God they cute.

Tim mentions she has citizens academy today. Lucy says yes and asks for any tips? Per usual he warns her about screenwriters haha That she shouldn't give out her card or she will be up to her eye balls in scripts. Lucy then segues into their plans for tonight. Flirty af as she does. Asking what he’s doing tonight? So much behind her question. Looking so very excited to ask him it. Radiating happiness as she does.

They could not be more flirty if they tried in this scene and I love it. I remember squeeing because this was the place we we're in now. Tim flirting right back ‘Nothing. I hope.’ *heart clutch* Lucy shooting tons of heart eyes his way. Letting him know that ‘Nothing sounds perfect.' Who would've thought the word 'Nothing.' could sound so romantic? Yet these two did it. The smirk on his face as she walks away from him is everything.

Oh my lord this man is a goner for her. Never seen this man smile more this entire series than he has since he started dating Lucy. They are giving off teenagers sneaking around and in love vibe here. Their secret dating era is just a primo as their longing/pining one. I love this season so much. Could they be anymore adorable flirting in the break room? Talking about cover stories and doing ‘Nothing.’ Gah I love it so much. It's all so new and exciting and it's coming off them in waves. I'm soaking it up like a sponge of shippy happiness.

This next portion is adorable. I love Aaron literally running to Lucy to tell her about Tim coaching little league. He is so excited to share this with her haha I am a fan of trio not gonna lie. Tim rolling his eyes when she says ‘Nolan.’ I mean it is a very John Nolan thing to do let’s be honest… Aaron calling him ‘Sergeant Friendly’ and not being pummeled by Tim just shows what a good place he’s in with Lucy.

Lucy saying ‘Can she watch?’ doing things to me. Sounded way flirtier than I’m sure she meant it to. Or maybe she did mean it that way heh Like girl we know you wanna watch him for quite a few reasons...Also you know she’s proud of him for being the good uncle and stepping up. The heart eyes are infinite at the end from her. She is proud of him for doing this. If it was possible he became even more attractive to her because of this.

Lucy shows up to practice and see’s Tim in coach mode. She is looking so very amused. Especially with how soft he is being. Watching her boyfriend who she knows can be a hard ass be soft af with these kids. Also if they think Genny doesn’t know they’re out of their damn minds. It’s all over her face as they banter with each other. Platonic co-workers don’t show up to their co worker's nephews practice and 'bicker'.

Married vibes x 1000 here and Genny is picking up what they’re throwing down. Tim is so excited to see her when she shows up. No way his sister doesn’t see a shift in his demeanor. Lucy couldn’t have a bigger smile on her face as she teases him. Tim being the exasperated husband per usual. Saying they’re just kids it's supposed to be fun. Her teasing is extra smitten like I have to say. Showing all your cards today you two. Right in front of Genny LOL

The sister in law bonding continues as Tim walks away. Which I absolutely adore btw. Lucy asking 'This is weird right?' Genny regaling her of how their dad taught his team as a kid. Tim having literal scars from it. It’s then it all comes together for Lucy. Tying back to that moment in 4x09. ‘You’re nothing like him.’ Lucy immediately getting why he’s acting this way.

He will do anything not to be like his father. I could not relate to that more if I tried. I see you Tim and I so understand. Lucy instantly softens and says this back to Genny. Knowing exactly what’s bringing on this soft streak of his. We watch as the kids continue to suck lol. Tim doing a thumbs up and I’m dying of laughter. Lucy sees why he’s doing this but says he is also over correcting in this approach.

This scene is a look into them as parents and it's making me very happy. The control freak in Lucy can’t stand back any longer. I love this part so much. She takes control and provides the kids with some knowledge and structure. Also like to call this the scene where Tim falls even more in love with her. He couldn’t be more proud as she takes control. Not only that but is knowledgeable about the game he loves. Win win.

He is looking at her like yep that’s the future mother of my kids. I love her walking up and the kids just follow. Her leadership is on fire right now. Tim asks her what she’s doing? Lucy saying yeah they can have fun but they also need structure. She’s not wrong… Totally going to be them as parents. Lucy being the stricter one with structure. Where Tim will be the softie wanting their kids just to have fun.

So cute how bemused Tim looks when she calls herself his ‘friend.’ Knowing they are far more than that now. Gah love Eric and his expressions. I’m a sucker for them. Lucy breaks down what they’re going to be doing. Not only that but the confidence she exudes while doing that has Tim beaming at her. Like look at his girl taking control and being knowledgeable about baseball. Seriously it's like he is falling even deeper in love with her based on this alone. How could he not?

Don’t tell me that man wasn’t turned on by this whole display either. Heart eyes galore but a little hot under the collar as well. You know he loves when she’s assertive. It’s a huge turn on for him. He’s basically scoping her out in front of those kids haha It’s this mixture of pride and being so immensely attracted to her. The man is in awe of this woman standing next to him.

The way he looks at her I’m just a damn puddle. If that man looked at me that way I would melt. Instantly. Lucy does melt a little when she catches his eye in the first gif above. You can see her crack a smile when their eyes connect. It's so cute. Once again I ask have we ever seen this man this damn happy before? No. Not till Lucy. I love him telling them when she’s done. ‘You heard her.’ Like you heard my wife get going. haha

The teasing is the cutest. It’s like we’re getting on screen fanfic levels of fluff in this episode. I'm so here for it. Just beaming heart eyes at each before he teases her with the ball. Her ‘Oh.’ When he takes the ball out of her reach. I cannot. I’m dying with the how adorable this whole thing is. My god they’re basically screaming their relationship to Genny in this moment.

I must also note my god Tim looks good. Doing what he does best. Takes a simple outfit like shirt and ball cap makes it sinfully delicious. Sweet lord he looks SOOOO good in outfit. Mmmm break me off a piece. My fav color too so that definitely adds to it for me. *fans self*

We catch up with them post practice. Genny comments they should co-coach together. They both make little jokes about it basically flirting in front of her. Do they see themselves and their looks? No? Ok... Genny redirecting their attention to how well they work together. Tim stumbling over his words instantly. Thinking they're being caught.

Lucy swoops in to save his ass like she did with Nolan ha Now her reply is shaky as well but better than Tim’s LOL They’re so bad at hiding this it’s hilarious. Tim following up with a ‘Mmhmm….’ As transparent as glass you two. A blind man could see how in love you are. Sweet lord.

Just being idiots in love in front of his sister ain’t no thing….Fairly certain Genny knows but is just testing the waters with her comments. No way she doesn’t see a difference in her own brother. Sure she sensed something in 4x08/4x09. This entire interaction only heightened it. Tim being the least subtle person on the planet in this moment. I love him so much. He sure is trying. lol

Lucy gets a call from the shelter so she steps away. Her domestic she got in is causing problems. She goes back to Tim and lets him know something going on with it. He is the worried boyfriend and asks if she wants him to come with? Which I adore. He know she can handle herself but wants to offer it anyways.

Just wanting to be near her at all times right now which is adorable. Also that instinct inside him to want accompany her incase she needs him. Being the supportive lovely boyfriend he is. Lucy declines and he respects her wanting to handle it on her own. Because he knows she can. Gah I love them. It’s the little things.

We rejoin them at the baseball game and I’m dying how cute they are. Lucy is losing her mind over the game and it's hysterical to watch unfold. Tim tells her to be encouraging haha How far we’ve come from Grey telling Tim to do as such back in 4x02. Love seeing that translate into this. Lucy tries to correct herself but doesn't convince Tim very well on it. His reply of 'We're gonna work on that...' I'm rollin. This is so adorable.

Lucy’s competitive side coming out and he has to have her take down just a notch. LOL The biggest trip is Tim being the kind encouraging one where Lucy is being the more competitive intense one ha. The dynamic shift here is unreal. I just love how involved she gets into this. This is something he loves and she is right there with him on it. I just love that he now has someone to do this stuff with. Happily too.

Not only that but Lucy is very into it at this point. I adore him leaning in to hear her. Tim has to calm her down though. haha I love her telling him she’s excited and he says ‘I know.’ Just letting Lucy be herself 100 percent. He loves her for who she is and vice versa and I'm a puddle. I am also excited Lucy has someone she can be herself fully around. Each found their person and it shows.

Lucy is losing her mind over this game and he gets it. Gah I love them so much everyone. This was such a cute mini moment. He is loving her competitive energy but is trying to tamp it down a little as well LOL Just a husband trying to calm down his overly competitive wife. It’s so cute I’m dying.

The cuteness continues on as they try and hype up one of the kids. I love them cheering Blake on together. Serious married baseball parents vibes. Just being proud parents clapping together. Wearing matching outfits having the same cute energy. This is them as parent's I am convinced. We are looking into the future people.

I also don't hate seeing Tim's biceps in action in these shots Mmm. Yum. I saw someone make a comment that they felt Dad Eric vibes in this scene. I can see it. The way he posts like a proud papa about his kids this is totally in line with that. It's pretty adorable to watch.

The high five turning into a hand hold is adorable and subtle af guys. I did see a BTS post awhile back on here about this. Eric said he and Melissa had a bet. Something about who would have that piece of paper in their end by end of the ep. Something like that. So that’s all I see now when I see the high five and hand hold. LOL Such goobers and I love them for it.

Either way they are disgustingly cute to end this episode. Lucy being the overly competitive mom. Tim has to keep her from scaring the kids is gold. This episode was tons of cuteness and flirty times. Was the perfect episode to follow 5x10 and pre-cursor to 5x12. They got to just be them and have time outside the station together. Just to be a couple and hang out. I loved it sfm.

~~~

Side notes-non Chenford

I will forever adore how Lucy handled that whole Domestic solo. I made a post after this ep premiered about how proud I was of her. How deeply she has grown as a cop and a person. How she doesn't let that abusive asshat rattle her cage in the least. The way she flashes her badge at him and says they're not done talking yet when he is trying to pull her from Lucy. Hot damn. My girl crush is back LMAO

Not only that but take his ass down later. Solo. Has the matter in hand by the time the cavalry arrives. How far she’s come from that moment in the sewers with Nyla back in S2. How proud Harper would be of her. She already is with her UC work but she commands this entire situation. From Start to finish. Takes down a guy twice her size by herself. Just so proud of her growth. The confident BAMF she’s come gah I love it sfm.

Don't usually do gifs in side notes but there were some good side note gifs. LOL Eric at it again with expressions and I'm laughing so hard. If you wanted to see what Tim thinks of Nolan in a moment it's that expression above. Lucy calling John a bad ass and Tim isn't so sure he agrees with her LMFAO. I'm with you babe idk I do either...

The sole purpose of this gif is just to drool and gawk at how damn good Tim looks in the field in this scene. I could care less about the SL LOL It's the tight red shirt, the jeans with his cuffs in the back, the vest with his badge showing, those delicious fit biceps of his, that shot of his forearm as he opens the door and the way he climbs into that trailer flexing said sexy biceps phew lord. Field Tim does so many things to me. How Lucy waited as long as she did to have that man Idk LOL Imma go get some ice water....

Thank you as always to those who read, like, comment on these reviews you make my whole day every time I see one pop up. I shall see you all in 5x12 :)

#Caitlin Rewatches The Rookie #chenford #chenford hiatus #waiting on s6 #winter rewatch #S5 #5x11 The Naked and The Dead #the rookie 5x11 #otp: doing my job #otp: you know me so well. too well. #otp: some things matter more #otp: you did good #otp: you're nothing like him #otp: just doesn't feel like pretend #otp: unless it is #tim x lucy #tim bradford #lucy chen #lucy x tim #eric winter #melissa o'neil #the rookie #tim bradford x lucy chen

[nimrism]

could you make this post? please, it's so fascinating i really want to hear your thoughts on it

"The Dark Tower" Morgwen Interactions Analysis

i've literally been waiting for someone to ask me this so i can go all out in answer, so you're literally my favorite- THANK YOU! i've tried to put all the thoughts swirling around in my head into one coherent post, so strap in and let's LOOK AT THE IMPLICATIONS (from my perspective)!

first and most importantly, i want to zero in on morgana's choice of kidnapee; she could've chosen anyone in camelot, any one of the knigts who were regularly privy to arthur's battle plans and schedule, but nope. if we're looking at it from the perspective of "she needs the closest person to arthur" wouldn't that be merlin? she could have kidnapped and brainwashed him; he would've made for a fabulous inconspicious mole in the court, and arthur literally goes to him for anything and everything. i actually think it would make for a really interesting au/fic if it were merlin who was kidnapped instead of gwen (love confession/magic reveal possibilities are ENDLESS), but maybe it's a little too close to the plot of "a servant of two masters" and the writers didn't want to be repetitive. i'm going to be biased and delusional in believing that morgana did choose gwen, in particular, for more personal reasons as well as for her nefarious ones.

the way i see it (and this is obviously very objective), by the time we get to this point in s5, morgana is LONELY, like, has-no-one-in-the-world-except-aithusa type of lonely, and her choice of allies has been lacking diversity as of late (why are they all men 💀), AND they all end up dying anyway. so, she needs a plan, and she needs a trusted ally (she also needs a bit of love and lip balm cause DAMN). BUT the thing is, why would anyone be loyal to her? she's never kept any allies (or friends) thanks to her wit and charm alone, she's only ever kept men loyal to her by striking fear in their hearts. it's the same for her friends and family, i think. she doesn't believe they even tolerate her existence, so she needs to be crowned queen to subdue them and FORCE them to respect her. the same goes for gwen. she was only morgana's friend when morgana was a naive and vulnerable girl, plagued by nightmares and unexplained fears, and the second morgana grew out of them (or learned to control them) gwen stopped being affectionate, stopped being open. that's how morgana sees it, and it only reinforces her belief that gwen would never understand the person she's become now, she wouldn't quite see what morgana was trying to do. unless morgana forced her to.

the whole kidnapping affair was to MAKE gwen understand, because she wouldn't do it of her own free will. gwen would never willingly be on morgana's side, so she had to jump through a few morally questionable hoops to bring her over. in the end, i do believe all morgana really wanted was a friend (maybe a little bit more, amirite ladies), though by this point her concept of friendship had become twisted beyond recognition, and in all the chaos, this was the only way she thought she could have one. throughout the episode, a lot of the old morgana shines through, even if it is portrayed as just manipulation, and i do think that was her either slipping back into old habits or forcing herself to, for the sake of the brainwashing and for the sake of their friendship that she's trying to rekindle.

a point that i've seen several people make is that between the niceties, the "real" morgana peeks through several times throughout the ep, but i kinda disagree. i don't necessarily think that just because her smile drops, it means that the niceties were a facade and her "evil" side pops back out. i read the sudden change in expression more as disappointment. gwen fights back with such vigour that it's probably painful for morgana to realize that her former friend sees her as nothing more than an evil witch who's hell-bent on hurting her, now. she's disappointed that gwen, who was supposed to know her best, believes what the others do, and doesn't believe that morgana is being sincere in her offer of friendship.

a small remark i also have is: why wasn't morgana one of the visions/hallucinations gwen had in the dark tower? it's interesting to see that the closest three people to gwen are her brother, arthur, and merlin, of all people. i feel like gwen's history with morgana has to have had a lasting effect on both of them, even if morgana is supposed to be "evil" now. you don't stop loving someone just because they've chosen (or BEEN chosen by) the dark side. morgana was one of the people gwen cared about most in seasons 1 through 3 (s3 is pushing it a little, but still), it doesn't really make sense for it all to be forgotten so completely like we see in this episode. i also think it would've been super interesting to see a hallucination of younger morgana in particular, partially as a reminder that part of gwen still cares about morgana and largely because i'd like to see how gwen would react to that vision... would it differ from the other three? what would morgana do? would she sneer and laugh like elyan and arthur? would she do a little rawr like merlin (😭)? i feel like a ficlet is in order for this concept cause i would like to see it but i have to imagine it first (but that's the hard part 😭)

NOW ONTO THE MOST DELICIOUS PART OF THIS ANALYSIS: THE QUOTES

M: "Would you prefer some chicken?"

i just found this one hilarious tbh like she's so out of pocket what are you doing offering your kidnapee some chicken and WHAT WAS THE OTHER OPTION, IF NOT CHICKEN?

M: "I know how lonely you must be, all by yourself in that room. At least you're not shackled, and there's daylight. You can move, you can see."

oof. she's obviously referring to her own capture and torture, pulling from her own experience. it's heartwrenching that morgana has been through all of this, traumatised beyond reason, but it's even more heartwrenching that she thinks she's doing gwen a service, like this. it might not seem like that to any sane person, but after everything she's been through, morgana's worldview is completely different. in her mind, however twisted and detached it has become, she's being merciful to gwen this way, giving her luxuries that she was never afforded when she was captured. (including a warm meal with chicken at miss havisham's table 🤩)

M: "I too have suffered, Gwen. I spent two years living in darkness. I spent two years chained to a wall at the bottom of a pit... You did not know."

goddddd this line... it's just so painful, so powerful, so indicative of SO MANY THINGS. it's EVERYTHING. every acting choice katie and angel made in this scene was brilliant but ESPECIALLY their facial expressions in this particular part WOAH. the way morgana's voice cracks on the word "pit" is DEVASTATING. i was floored. the way gwen's face falls as she processes her words and they properly set in... INCREDIBLE. the concern in gwen's eyes is palpable as she realizes the horrors inflicted on her friend. and the final "you did not know" was so, so powerful. morgana realizes that gwen didn't know about and clearly wasn't okay with what she went through. gwen had no part in it. morgana SMILES at gwen's reaction, but instead of it being a smile of malice or evil it's one of RELIEF, and one that she hides very promptly. she's reassured in the knowledge that gwen had no idea she had suffered so immensely, and that, more importantly, she wasn't involved in it. it's SO important to note that morgana has no idea whether arthur had a hand in her own torture or not. it's especially not a good look on him that he invites the sarrum as a friend of camelot so soon after the events of "the dark tower", so, as far as morgana knows, he could've been a "friend" when she was being tortured for years, too. i wonder what would've happened if morgana had kidnapped gwen AFTER the sarrum's visit to camelot... i feel like that would have complicated things with gwen much further, if morgana thought she was complicit in her imprisonment.

M: "I would have sold my soul for someone to show me kindness such as this."

only two points on this heartbreaking line: 1- FUCK the sarrum of amata. all my homies HATE the sarrum. s4 and s5 morgana might both be textbook cases of "evil", but they're two VERY different people with two very different worldviews and tactics. morgana's imprisonment turned her into the cold husk of a person she is by s5. and 2- this just further confirms that morgana thinks she's doing gwen a favor, dining with her and letting sunlight into her room and choosing not to tie her up etc.

M: "Your hands are cold... I have a warm fire going for you."

oh boy is this a MOMENT. the way morgana keeps her hand held out. the way gwen reluctantly puts her hand in hers (MORGWEN HAND-HOLD!) *ivy by taylor swift starts playing out of nowhere* {ohhhhh goddamn, my pain fits in the palm of your freezing hand, taking mine, but it's been promised to another, ohhh}

um anyway i digressed. then the way gwen wriggles her hand out of morgana's grasp, while morgana grips her fingers with unwavering determination... it's just delicious.

M: "Anything you want, you can have. I'll give it to you."

idk about you but personally i'm SOLD. take all my money. i read this as morgana trying her utmost best to sell gwen on joining her, but i can also see the manipulation laced in it.

G: "Why are you doing this?"

M: "Because we're friends. We always were."

to me, this reinforces the theory that morgana's just trying to get her friend back on her side. by stating that they've always been friends, morgana reaffirms their friendship as much to herself as to gwen. she was her friend once, and she can be again.

M: "I'm helping you. I'm looking after you."

this sort of feels like morgana is telling herself that, more than she's telling gwen. maybe it's just part of the manipulation process, but i do believe that this was morgana's conscience reassuring her that what she's doing is in gwen's favor and that she's being kind to her.

M: "It's alright, I'm here."

UGH this line. morgana is being the person she needed when she was imprisoned. this scene is also a parallel to all the times morgana woke up screaming in the middle of the night and gwen was there to comfort her in s1/2. this time the tables have turned and it's morgana comforting gwen. simply delicious.

M: "My darling, I was wrong to make you suffer."

TEA! to say that this line was spoken from the bottom of morgana's heart might just be a bit too delusional, but i like to think there's at least some truth to it. torturing gwen had a lot of paralells to morgana's own imprisonment and torture, and she did want to make her suffer, at least in the beginning. but it was also different from what morgana went through. this is NOT to justify torture, btw, torture is BAD, but her "manipulation" tactics got a bit too personal at some point, and i like to think at least a part of it was genuine.

G: "No. Whatever twisted game you're playing, I want no part in it. I would rather stay here and die."

ouch. gwen's resistance to the last possible minute shows such strength on her part (cause me? i would've given in before she even dragged me through the desert tbh) and it gave us such a delicious performance from angel; the reluctance? the uncertainty? the distrust? the relief that morgana is there but also the FEAR of what she's doing? the contradiction between the morgana that gwen once knew and the morgana that everyone KNOWS is evil? but the morgana that gwen once knew is shining through now, and she's saying everything gwen wants to hear... grade-A angst.

IN CONCLUSION they're gfs your honor, this was all just a plot to snatch gwen back from arthur cause morgana didn't think seducing her herself would work. (this phrase could be in reference to this ep or the "lancelot du lac" ep i'm cackling morgana really is hopeless) there are also SEVERAL psychological layers to it, but describing it this way is just easier.

SO... this is possibly the longest post i've ever made. it got a little more comprehensive than i originally thought it would be, but THERE YOU HAVE IT! that's my take on the morgwen interactions in the dark tower. if i seem a little biased, that's because i 100% am :) i hope that clears things up. this is an open invitation to keep sending me asks (even if it's about the most random things ever) cause i love them and i love every single person who sends in an ask, and a public apology for how long these answers get sometimes 😭

#the fuckass sarrum is public enemy number one #hate that guy #morgana defender til the day i die #yes she's done some questionable things but have you considered that she's baby #can you tell i'm biased #save me morgwen save me #morgwen will probably be my undoing at this point #they're so special to me #the dark tower #this episode was a whole rollercoaster #morgana's gf might've been stolen from her but she stole her BACK #and now she's dragging her across the desert #now they're having a lil heart to heart #back to torture #fruity #HAND HOLDING #torture again #bunch of other stuff happens #FRUITY AGAIN! #that's pretty much the summary #anyway i hope this is coherent enough to be read #feel free to discuss #include me in the discussion too i'm making an effort to socialize #bbc merlin #morgana pendragon #morgana #guinevere #morgwen #merlin theory

[theerurishipper]

I still remember when s5 bible leaked and in it, the ending stated : "Marinette will lied to Adrien about his father and she will use his amok to change his perspective toward his father." Or something along the line since I forgot the exact line.

And people were like "Lmao, there's no way she will do that. She knows Gabriel is a bad father."

Except now it's trully happened and people saying "She did it for him, out of love!" And "Even if she did give him command, "be yourself" isn't a bad command anyway" as if the idea of someone giving other a command isn't inherently wrong. Not a suggestion or motivation, it is a command! She has no business to control Adrien's life, even more so since she only know a surface level about his life.

Just because Adrien said "Only Marinette understand me" doesn't necessarily means she trully understand him, especially when she barely talk to him prior dating and her understanding of him is mostly from the magazine (and I bet a groupie group).

I don't think the bible mentions anything about Marinette using the Amok. I just read it through right now and it doesn't mention anything about the Amok, so it's up to personal interpretation. Personally, I don't believe Marinette used it, but the scene itself is rather ambiguous on that front. And the show is so broken in its view of the morality of using a mind control device on a fellow human that I wouldn't be surprised if it was revealed that she had done it.

But if people who believe that she did it are defending that decision, that's fucked up. There's no justification for controlling someone's mind like that without their consent. If she wanted to help him be himself, she could let him figure himself out on his own terms and support him, or she could, you know, ask him if he would like her to help him that way. At the very least, doing it with his full and willing consent is better than essentially violating his autonomy and free will.

Marinette does know that Gabriel is a bad father. She may not know the extent of it, perhaps, but she does know that he locked his son up for years and controlled his mind with a magic ring for years, and she still makes the choice to respect Gabriel's wish and lie to Adrien. There is no justification for this, I'm sorry. There just isn't. "Doing it out of love," is the most pitiful and frankly ridiculous excuse there is. Gabriel was also abusing Adrien "out of love." That doesn't make what he did any less horrible.

And you're right that Marinette doesn't understand or know Adrien that well. The show likes to tell us that she understands him like no other and that he feels free with her and all that BS, but it doesn't show us that. What it does show us is that Marinette does not have a clue that Adrien isn't perfection personified until Risk, after which she never put in the effort to get to know him as a person ever again. Instead, he chose to pursue her and literally felt obligated to change himself for her sake. Which is like, fucked up, cause his narrative is about learning that he doesn't have to change himself for other people and he's explicitly trying to be the perfect guy who asks nothing of Marinette for her, and the show pretends this is all fine and dandy.

This is a very unhealthy relationship, even more so now that Marinette is gaslighting Adrien into loving his abuser. This is super fucked up.

And for those who believe this will be dealt with in the future, the bible does have this to say:

So much for that lmao.

Thank you for your ask!

#Meta #My meta #Asks #ML Salt #ML Writing Salt #ML Writers Salt #Marinette Salt #Ladybug Salt #ML Fandom Salt #ML Spoilers #ML Leaks #ML Bible Spoilers #ML Bible #S5 Finale #Adrienette Salt

[raayllum]

What Aaravos says : And i can better serve you

What Aaravos means : And you can better serve me

So like I've been mulling this over because

What is the difference between a servant and a pawn, if there is one?

Is such an interesting question, thematically. And it shows how someone can take concepts and either purposefully misconstrue them or genuinely honour them, which is to say: King Harrow and Aaravos are set up as perfect ideological opposites and I think it's really fucking cool.

Where Harrow sees strength in children

"The great illusion of childhood is that adults have all the freedom and power. But the truth is the opposite: a child is freer than a king."

Aaravos sees them as someone to dismiss

"These are the champions you've gathered to try and stop me? Why, they're nothing but pathetic children."

Where Harrow did his best to be a servant king as the most powerful person in his kingdom, for Aaravos (the most powerful being in the world), it is a guise and a mask

Their hatred of arrogance

as well as the core principle of Freedom that Harrow has that Aaravos is chasing, both interwoven and passed down to Callum in giving him the Key

Where Harrow did everything he could to make Callum feel welcome and at home in their family, Aaravos merely wants to add him to a collection of pawns

There are also old concept art in which Aaravos was blindfolded, reminiscent of Harrow's choice from Lady Justice. Not to mention Harrow as someone who was like Aaravos (and many others) in that he perpetuated the cycle out of misplaced love / a rageful grief (which, if Aaravos is doing the same because he fell in love with a human, would also provide those sweet Harrai parallels) but unlike Aaravos, he changed his mind. Even if their ideas of servitude are a bit similar, re: the kneeling motif

Which of course, makes sense; Harrow was a man with his life tragically shortened, burdened by regret, anchored by his own crown/chain and by the end of his life, believed wholeheartedly in the Narrative of Love. Even more than someone like Viren, Aaravos appears to wholeheartedly believe in a Narrative of Strength (especially if there is no one left he loves). Which is why I think it's so interesting like, Arc 1 for Harrow is a tragedy told in retrospect and at least partially in reverse; unlike everyone else, he never lives to see the Dragon Prince that he felt so much guilt over returned, that the peace he probably wanted (for his sons if nothing else) was not only achievable, but something that happened. And now Arc 2 is starting to shift the stage, beginning in S4 with setup, of being a tragedy for everyone else who outlived him (for S5 and S6 at least) because the Wheel of the Cycle has yet to stop fully turning and it's so fucking good?

Which is compounded with what I've touched on more briefly before of each of the Main Trio having Core Traits of Harrow that they are then responsible for carrying for the sake of thematic exploration.

Rayla is Harrow's martyrdom (right or wrong) and concept of paying the price, as well as hunting down 'monsters' to solve all her problems; Callum wrestles with Harrow's temptation regarding dark magic and the weight of choices / unintended consequences; Ezran has the place as literal king with a reinvigorated crown and having to well, be king, as well as upholding a relationship to Xadia / the dragon monarchy that's the opposite of his father. All three of them are called to Do Better.

So Aaravos being in some ways the embodiment of history - powerful, ancient, unknown and lost to time - is the perfect opposing threat, because how can you Free yourself from the Past, from the Chains of History, if you can't "learn from it, understand it, and then let it go"?

But like Harrow said so long ago, and as S4 is demonstrating even in a post-outright war world

And now we get to see it unfold first hand

#tdp #the dragon prince #tdp meta #king harrow #aaravos #tdp aaravos #tdp harrow #the cycle #pawns #arc 1 #arc 2 #parallels #analysis series #analysis #god i love surprise meta when it slaps this hard #kneeling motif #theme: freedom #personal fave

[darkpoisonouslove]

Brandon and Stella for the ask game?

Can I say everything about them? Because everything. But okay, let's see.

1) I love that they have so much depth. Great examples of that are 1x24 and 3x04. Brandon's worry that Stella might not like him if he's not royalty may seem to work against the relationship. After all, it seems to imply that Brandon himself believes that Stella would be shallow enough as to reject him just based on his social status. But I think this has less to do with Stella and more with Brandon's self-image. We can easily infer that Sky's parents treat him badly despite him risking his life for Sky. His very "job" is based around the fact that he is expendable compared to Sky, that he is inferior because he's not royalty. Sky himself is sometimes inconsiderate of him and his safety. Anything Stella has to contribute to this is maybe bragging too much that she's dating the prince of Eraklyon but she's so quick to reassure him when he shares his concerns. She doesn't hesitate to bring up her own pain (her parents' divorce) to really emphasize her point. And on the flip side, Stella's obsession with her looks can easily be brushed off as an exercise in vanity but in 3x04 we learn that Stella bases her whole sense of self-worth on her appearance and losing her beauty is an equivalent of being lonely for her. Yet, Brandon is right there for her (and basically proposes by gifting her a family heirloom) because he's seen under the surface and finds her nothing but perfect for him. It all conveys the depth of their feelings for each other and I am eating it up.

2) I HATE the Downland arc for how horribly it treats my babies but they remain so true to each other in it and I can't not mention it. Brandon is practically traumatized by the whole experience but he still chooses to do everything in his power to protect Stella. Even if it means sacrificing his whole future, and not just his chances of being with her. And Stella doesn't care about the literal knife at her throat if she can't be with Brandon - the love of her life (oh, and she jumped off a cliff for him even though she had no guarantees that she won't splatter on possible rocks below). I am not saying that the other couples had to go through something this scarring in order to prove themselves but Brella did and they are superior for it.

3) Unpopular opinion perhaps but I like the s5 Brella stuff. Of course, I am not a fan of how infantilized Stella is but a toned down version of her behavior could have been perfectly in line with her tendency from the first three seasons to be inconsiderate of others sometimes. I particularly like how Brandon handles the situations. Brandon doesn't get a lot of character development of his own which is the reason why I adore how he doesn't compromise with himself when he disagrees with Stella. He tells her his honest opinion without being harsh about it. He also makes it clear that he's still there for her even if his views differ from hers. If he was interacting with the mature Stella from season 3, this would have easily been the best subplot of the entire season.

send me a ship and I’ll tell you three things I like about it

#winx club #winx stella #winx brandon #brella #stella x brandon #ask #stellasolaris #winx ships

[mamayura]

I just need to be direct about some things for Ladybugs side of Ladynoir in s5 now for a sec.

It's just.. somebody please tell me how I am supposed to believe that Marinette actually learned something from the season 4 Ladynoir conflict or won't continue to just fall further back on her words when Revelation showed that Ladybug will lie and use Chat Noir as bait and a tool again to continue her s4 treatment of him and how he was nothing but the scapegoat/pet/punching bag for her and Alya for the entire season? Something she already in s4 barely felt appropriately bad about until the end of Strike Back had her pull a 180

Marinette literally proofed in Revelation that she has in fact either not learning anything or doesn't think Chat Noir deserves a better treatment, season 5 just didn't give her the chance to pull this more often because there were no other heros. What am I supposed to expect from her in season 6 now taht the entire team is back?

How am I supposed to think that Ladybug is capable of having a partnership with Chat Noir were both of them are allowed to make mistakes without getting punished for it when Derision is literally the episode about how her being bullied and publicly humiliated is the core of her trauma and yet the same episode has her go back and put Chat Noir at the risk of the very same thing by her own hands again because of the lucky charm plan, and as per usual HE apologizes for having been emotional and yet she never takes accountability for how she then proceeded to use him?

So people in season 4 were right? Ladybug is not capable of behaving normal in this partnership, the moment Chat Noir makes a mistakes or has a bad day or is affected by a power she will continue using him then however she pleases. Is she just not capable of coming up with other plans? Can Chat Noir really not exist in this partnership without being at the constant risk of being turned into a tool and scapegoat while being humiliated in their dynamic the moment he does something wrong? Is the only way of preventing that Chat himself not making mistakes again because Ladybug can't be asked to not do this shit to her partner?

Or can Adrien for once NOT be the only one to apologize in situations like that? I wouldn't be as harsh on what she did in Derision if Psycomedian in season 4 didn't exist where it was already established that Ladybug takes it for granted what Chat Noir puts up with for and from her and that got maxed out for all of season 4. And yet in season 5 Derision we are somehow not one step further? Can she not just say "Hey, about the toilet thing. Sorry that I went after you there, it was my first instinct because the power was to act out the meanest humor. Sorry for having used you like that again though, I will try to do better"

In the context of what Marinette's traumatic backstory is that plan of hers showed 0 self-reflection and once again puts all pressure on Chat Noir to not make a mistake around her or else she will apparently go back to her old ways without feeling bad about it. If Ladybug never clarifies anything then the episode just had her indirectly tell him that this is still what he has to expect from her when he has a bad day or whatever. Just like with Ladybugs violence in s4 she was never asked to take an ounch of accountability for and teached children bad lessons on how to treat friends several times because she's a girl and can get away with it, Derision has her indirectly reinforce that Chat's responsible for her treatment of him. He needs to do better to prevent her from pulling stuff like that because she's "justified" in whatever she does to him anyway as s4 teached us.

Or the fact in Migration neither Marinette nor Adrien know for sure if their partner knows that Luka knew their identity and Monarch picked up on that, and yet only for Adrien one can make a legit argument for why he didn't bring it up and that's the fact that Ladybug and Luka left him for so long all alone in the akuma battle that he would rightfully assume that this is were Ladybug and Luka talked about everything. Marinette on the other hand has no excuse for why she is keeping the fact that Monarch knows that Luka is aware of both their identities a secret from Chat Noir. It's yet another impossibly irresponsible secret directly concerning Chat's life and possibly the safety of all his civilian loved ones she just keeps from him and can't be criticized for because it's Marinette.

So she learned nothing from season 4 and stuff like Ephemeral?

Or even just little moments like Marinette proudly confirming to Alya behind Chat's back that she had him wear the insult paper in his bell for an entire season and them laughing, when it should be a no brainer that Chat didn't agree to wear it so she can tell it others behind his back for him to be laughed at. He trusted her that nothing bad would come out of it and yet that's what she did the moment Alya was there. That is such an awful thing to do. You don't do that to friends. Thats what I expect from Chloé, not Ladybug in Ladynoir.

Or in Réunion when Jeanne was talking down on Chat Noir because she is projecting her own Black Cat issues on Chat by insulting a 14 year old boy for not looking like a full grown man and Marinette.. agrees. One episode prior Marinette was gushing towards Alya about Chat's looks, muscles and whatever but the moment Marinette is insecure in front of an adult Ladybug who isn't all nice to her she directly agrees with insults unfairly directed at Chat Noir through backhanded compliments about "but he's very loyal" because at least it isn't her? And right in front of Chat too?

What's even worse is that Adrien couldn't see or hear Jeanne so from his perspective he literally just witnessed Ladybug agreeing with an insult about him spoken by a past Ladybug while he can't at all defend himself. Chat has no way to tell if the past Ladybug isn't constantly insulting him because apparently his Ladybug won't even disagree or sees any problem with that, and neither does he know if that already went on prior to meeting him.

It's moments like that for which I'm genuinely glad that he rejected her next episode in Elation. Why would he want to still date Ladybug when shes agreeing with insults being directed at him? Adrien was noticeably more insecure from then on in Réunion because he just doesn't know how hard he's being trash-talked and Ladybug just agreed :/

And then of course there is Kwamis choice right after Elation which.. dude, from Adrien's perspective he rejected Ladybug ONCE and then she fucking LEFT. Instantly. Adrien learned that episode that Ladybug herself is apparently a hypocrite and can't take a no either. Their entire partnership dynamic demands of him to be her yes-man and never ask for anything, never saying "no" and if he does than she stands under no obligation to respect it like when she still just uses her guardian privileges to overwrite him having renounced his Miraculous.

And then she for the first time actually had to respect Chat telling her "No" about something and she left. The ending of Hack-San is meaningless now because of Kwamis choice!

Season 5? What am I supposed to do with stuff like that for Ladynoir? Did Marinette learn something in the Ladynoir conflict of season 4 or only partly and I have to expect her regressing again and going back on her words because she was never properly called out on anything? If calling her out is the only way Marinette can learn then why is no one asking BETTER of her in important stuff like this regarding Ladynoir?

Did Marinette learn something or nah? Or will you at least have Alya want better for Chat Noir when Marinette herself already can't do it?

#ml season 5 #ml season 4 #ml ladynoir critical #ml rant #this isnt salt I'm listing stuff she did #im just frustrated at stuff like this #ml spoilers #miraculous #ml

[celestiall0tus]

I'm going to make this quick

So, I've finally caught up to Representation for Miraculous. I have some thoughts, but nothing like I did with Migration. That one hit a special nerve. Beware for any spoilers for Miraculous S5

Intuition:

Gabriel is ballsy. I do commend him for his risk and seeing the failures, but holy fuck. The whole thing with his afib and the heart beating made me squirm, but only because I suffer from heart problems myself, so it made me uneasy hearing that.

Pretension:

Ok. Feligami is cute.

Revelation:

Boring until Hoaxer, then it got interesting.

Confrontation:

Kudos to Sabrina for taking a stand. Also, short hair Lila is choice. Granted I love short hair on women.

Also, am I missing something, or did Juleka not have a speech problem back in season 1? It could just be me, but I thought she spoke fine at least until the later seasons when she started mumbling everything. Did I miss something?

Collusion:

Leave the fucking pregnant woman alone!! FFS!! I fucking get that Chloe is a brat and is gonna be that way, but Gabriel, leave the pregnant woman alone! Fuck! I nearly fucking cried when she got akumatized after dealing with all that stress of the day. FFS!

Now for the one (I assume) people are really interested in. Revolution:

I fucking laughed. So, yes, I acknowledge that in a fantasy, fictional world that kind of shit can happen. But in the real world and real world logic, there's no fucking way any of that would have happened. It's just like my nitpick with Jagged "just ripping up his contract." In the sense of our world, it wouldn't work. So, I don't know how to take this episode. I didn't hate it, but it did make me laugh with how nonsensical it was. So, it could have been worse.

Overall I didn't hate Chloe. She fulfilled her role well enough. I am more annoyed with Andre though. Kudos for wanting to fix your mistakes, but maybe grow a backbone and punish your daughter? No? Send her off with Audrey? Cool. Whatever.

Another thing I have is the fucking deus ex machina moment for Ladybug and Chat Noir. Fuck that shit. It's painfully obvious and while good deus ex machina moments exist, that wasn't one of them. I would have preferred there was more build up because, to me, they aren't grown up. They are still kids physically and mentally. Emotionally too. Fuck it, all around.

Now for spoiler territory. Representation:

I don't know. It could have been worse?

So, the story of the Agrestes and Graham de Vanillies was interesting, but a part of me wishes we learned in a different way. Or at the very least, not have Felix and Kagami act it out. I wanted to laugh so hard at it because it came off as so silly. Though I do like the idea that Adrien and Felix were literally miracle children. That I do love.

Also, this will be triggering to some and cause some hate, but I need to get this off my chest.

Felix, honey, I acknowledge that being called a monster all your life by someone who was supposed to "love" you is extremely damaging, but I don't think that necessarily make Colt a thousand times worse than Tomoe or any other abusive parents. I know pain is relative and it falls to the perspective of the individual, but I was expecting a lot worse. Again, it could just be me, but I expected so much worse from Colt than just controlling his son and calling him a monster. As far as I see it, Colt just falls in line with all the other shitty parents. Nothing special.

Last thing that confuses me is Chat/Adrien's nightmare. I get it's meant to be a reference to Chat Blanc and the danger he possesses, but why? As far as we know, Adrien would have absolutely no idea about those events, only Marinette. So, why that? I was honestly expecting something to do with him as Adrien, not Chat. But I guess we need to fabricate a reason for Adrien not to tell Marinette the truth and give him trauma. Right? Right?

And wouldn't he still remember it anyway despite the miracle being performed? It's a nightmare after all. That shit haunts you. And the way Gabriel made it sound was that it just bought their worst fears to the conscious rather than dwelling in the subconscious, y'know, as nightmares do. Also, no one tell Juleka, but if I'm reading her nightmare right, Jagged doesn't really love her. I don't care about the birthday episode since all we see is Jagged giving attention to Luka, not Juleka too. But that's just my hot take.

Last thing for Representation I want to call out. Marcaniel canon finally?! Yes please. You cannot convince me otherwise after seeing them away from the crowd, alone, holding hands, and about to do what we all know was gonna happen. First JuleRose, now Marcaniel. Best part of the episode.

This has been a L0tus rant. Have a lovely day.

#miraculous #miraculous ladybug #miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir #mlb s5 #mlb season five #mlb spoilers #mlb s5 spoilers #miraculous s5

[faithlesbian]

can we get ur thoughts on ftm!spike x mtf!angel (they're both butchqueer)

this is going to be way more in depth and serious than you probably hoped for so, sorry in advance

ppl who know me know i rarely consider pairings in a vacuum, i've got narratives and character arcs to think about which makes this ask Very interesting!! i think me and @titsgirlbuffy once joked that spike is transmasc bc he transed from one masculinity to a different masculinity, so considering him as ftm opens a whole new angle to that take. was he living as a man when he was alive? did he know who he was but stayed in the closet until he got turned and decided well, nothing can stop him now? did he slowly figure it out over decades of marauding the globe with Dru? i think that last one could intersect really well with the Trans Angel Reading in which he is Very closeted, bc if spike wasn't out when angel last saw him a century ago, their reunion in school hard would be even funnier while also probably making angel confront at least a few things. an ftm reading of spike would also interact in Ways with how he views and treats women, but that's honestly a whole nother can of worms so lets not be here all day. i think in general tho this reading of spike gives SO much weight to lines like "i know that i'm a monster, but you treat me like a man", "(the chip) won't let me be a monster, and i can't be a man", "to be the kind of man who... to be a kind of man" like that's what we're here for, that's what its About! i also think it lends an interesting aspect to how spike gets along with women as friends a lot better than he does with men if by the time he started living as a man he was already a vampire and therefore cut off from normal society, never learning how to be "one of the boys" except maybe from angel who, as we know, is not a normal example of anything

i'm not gonna cover my thoughts on mtf angel bc we all know them by now. im literally tumblr user transangelus. in the context of ftm spike tho i think mtf angel becomes a lot funnier given their constant rivalry from btvs s2 onwards -- im pretty sure me and @titsgirlbuffy reckoned spike would be Delighted by angel coming out bc it finally proves who's the better man. on that note tho as much as i fucking love their dynamic, i have no idea if they could actually be "together" in isolation. like as part of the polycule they were obviously fucking on the regular and doing erotic joint murders and the like, but idk if in the present with both of them having souls and trying to be better people that a relationship would be possible. it's like when darla was brought back as a human and her and angel spent like, five minutes together in actual understanding before dru showed up and killed her. with the sheer extent of baggage between centuries-old murderers, i think it's hard to disentangle from the worst versions of themselves they were together and what they did to eachother in the past in order to have a relationship that's not gonna implode messily within months at best (despite the fact they're always clearly desperate to fuck eachother). that being said i haven't actually seen ats s5 all the way through and what i did watch, i don't remember -- so maybe i'll eat my words!!

#thank you this was so interesting to consider!! #asks

[purrincess-chat]

I’ve seen that you’re a Swiftie and I was wondering, which album do you think each of the MLB characters are? Like if you had to assign an album to one character, out of the most relevant characters in the show I guess 👀

Okay, I had to think about it, but I think I got it. So, I couldn't think of other important characters that fit into some of the eras, so I ranked Marinette, Adrien, Ladybug, and Chat Noir separately, so here we go.

Marinette: Speak Now

She just gives lost in her head fairytale vibes, dreaming of romance and sparks flying and perfect scenarios. I also think she would absolutely stand up at Adrien and Kagami's arranged wedding and sweep him off his feet. And he would be here for it.

Adrien: Lover

Baby boy just wants love so bad. He is absolutely the type to swoon and sigh over his lover and write sappy poetry about how he wants to marry his beloved and live a very normal, mundane life together.

Alya: folklore

So, this one was tricky because aesthetically, I was thinking Red, but Alya has been in a committed relationship for 4 and a half seasons now, so I couldn't see her singing Taylor's quintessential break-up album. folklore, on the other hand, is a bunch of made up stories, and given that Alya is a journalist and a writer, I think she thrives off telling other people's stories. It just seemed like a perfect fit. Plus invisible string for her and Nino? Adorable!

Nino: 1989

I knew this one almost immediately. Just absolute party vibes. He's here for a good time. Nothing but bops.

Kagami: evermore

I also knew this one pretty quickly. Sad girl vibes. Baby just wants to live her life. Also gold rush? willow? "Wait for the signal, and I'll meet you after dark?" Feligami? Hello? Plus, right where you left me for the first portion of s5 where she's still torn up about her feelings for Adrien, but he's moved on with someone else? She wrote this album.

Felix: Reputation

Rep is my favorite album, and I think it fits Felix quite well. On the surface, he's very rough and aggressive and villainous, but underneath when you get to know him, he's actually very sweet and romantic and well-meaning. He's just been hurt by people in the past, so he had to do some shady shit to overcome all of that and carve his own happy ending. Plus, homie literally does not have the greatest reputation right now in canon.

Zoe: Fearless

Zoe was one I hesitated to include bc she's newer to the show, but they did kind of elevate her character in Kwami's Choice, and I felt like Fearless would be a good fit for her. Just someone who has been hurt before, but who's finding herself and learning to be more carefree and open.

Ladybug: Midnights

I went back and forth with Marinette/Ladybug on several albums because I feel like she is the most developed of all the characters, so she could relate to really any album, but I picked Midnights for her because Midnights as a concept is about the things that keep you up at night. Your past, your mistakes, your insecurities, your intrusive thoughts, the weight of the world. And I felt like Ladybug embodied that, especially after this season. Plus, she is the literal Mastermind, and Sweet Nothing is absolutely for her and Chat Noir post Strike Back coming into this season. "And the voices that implore, you should be doing more, to you I can admit that I'm just too soft for all of it." Hello? Also, I've always kind of had Would've, Could've, Should've in my head for her, not from a romantic standpoint, but from the standpoint of someone who has had their childhood ripped away from them because of a grown ass man.

Chat Noir: Red

This one I rolled around on, but hear me out. I feel like Chat embodies this album in a somewhat ironic sense. Red is a break-up album, but it's also kind of fun and tongue-in-cheek. I can see him singing We Are Never Getting Back Together to LB who is like but we never even dated bro wtf? Red is dramatic AF at times, and I feel like Chat would have a good time with it.

Chloe: Debut

Chloe was another one I hesitated to include, but I couldn't think of anyone that truly embodied Debut more than her. There are some truly shady and angry songs on Debut, plus the whole concept of directly writing people's names into songs where you trash talk them seems like a very Chloe thing to do. And Picture to Burn (homophobic version)? "There's no time for tears, I'm just sitting here planning my revenge." "My daddy's gonna show you how sorry you'll be"??? Absolutely Chloe.

#cat replies #asks #cats taylor swift agenda #ml spoilers

[mariproducer]

Venting about s5 bible stuff under the cut it’s gonna be disjointed I just need to let out my thoughts

absolutely no mention of chat blanc in the bible besides it being placed in the special akumatization section... ofc the bible is simply an outline so there’s a chance it could be brought up (e.g. in evolution we had no indication that young! alix was going to be forced to remain in the burrow until monarch was defeated) but i have no clue which episode it could be brought up in. and the fact that the bible has no indication of an identity reveal and the discussion of cb ... kinda needs one to begin with since it involves identities... who fuckin knows

so far there has been a contradiction with the bible where nathalie shit talks gabriel for his stupidity even though the bible says she has her own ulterior motives buttt then again this is mlb king of inconsistency soooo whos to say this mindset will stick (or the bible is to a T with the plot)

also ^ no mention of sentimonster shenanigans which is uh. hm. ok then? on one hand, it makes me feel like all this sentimonster teasing was a fuckin joke or smth, on the other hand this means the sentimonster stuff was likely squeezed in at the last minute if theres no proper mention of adrien OR felix possibly being sentimonsters (or maybe i misread? idk i looked at every instance of felix on the doc and found nothing)

speaking of felix... mostly nothing on him... which is frankly disappointing, as someone who’s always excited to see him on screen. i mean thanks for the confirmation that he’ll transform with the peacock miraculous and make one sentimonster? oh and he has a different last name ... erm ok then... he’s hardly present ANYWHERE on the script and its making me ☹️ bc he was the most interesting character we’ve gotten (Cuz he had motivations and acted out on his own volition) and boom nothing of note...

i don’t wanna hope bc i hate having expectations especially when they’re likely to be let down but grrrr i just want more felix damnit...

worried for the possible chance of ppl ripping into kagami again. the plotlines lined up for her in s5 just reek of “we need to make a character ooc to fit a specific plotline we want” and its just UGHHH kagami doesn’t deserve this! at all! i need to get her out of this show NOW

im sick and tired of andre the ice cream man and im even more sick and tired that most mar!chat episodes have to do with this guy! (and no weredad is NOT any better) like fuck this guy i hope his business goes under 

tbh the lila shit and the “adrien never finds out his dad is hawkmoth” shit deserves its own goddamn post because what. the. actual. FUCK.

im still in tears (in a funny yet sad way) that they literally could not feasibly write off luk@nette in canon bc they had to ship luka off to another country for the rest of the season like LMFAO??? but also I HATE YOU?? i knew that they had him learn their identities to screw him over one way or another 

the reverse LS stuff is stupid bc why the hell does adrien suddenly develop feelings for marinette like seriously WHERE THE HELL DID IT COME FROM look i get why lb -> cn even if its so hamfisted i could at least see the logic here but ADRIEN -> MARINETTE??? adr!enette HARDLY got any screentime last season and when they did it was the bare minimum and hardly compared to their scenes in prior seasons so like wtf

why the fuck is there a miracle box in antarctica WHO PLACED IT THERE LOL

Ok m done for now let’s talk about positive things bc there are some things I’m looking forward to!

Alya as Scarabella FOR THREE EPISODES! sure the premise of two of those episodes sucks balls but im happy to see scarabella in action again

im actually excited for one episode: Determination! The akumatized villain takes us back to the wax museum but this time it seems like she’ll bring to life wax statues of all the heroes so idk maybe im excited for big fights. 

#ml leaks #mlb leaks #ml bible leak

[moonlayl]

hey I'm not sure if this is unpopular to say but why did we ever really like Lance hunter? he wasn't that great and really rude to the absolute queen that is Bobbi Morse. like, did he redeem himself? he's not bad, but annoying without many great qualities. honestly it might just be the way he treats bobbi, it just rubs me wrong and gives me the ick.

Hello anon! Sorry this is about a week 4 months late. (I’m awful at this, I know)

So there are several instances in the show where Hunter pisses me off (when he talks about Bobbi behind her back, when he “advises” Fitz not to save Will (which is really inexcusable) when he refuses to say “don’t die out there” to Bobbi because he’s angry she wants to handle ward—the guy who hurt HER—herself, etc…)

But I disagree about him not having good/redeeming qualities. One of his main qualities is his loyalty to the people he cares about. He tells may “shield’s all about the mission, not the person next to you”

And even though I’m the kind of person who thinks that sometimes (not always though) a mission could actually be that important, I have to admire the way Hunter is dedicated to helping out his teammates. He drops everything to rush and help Fitz in s5. Even at the possible expense of his life, or Bobbi, he doesn’t betray the other members in “parting shot”. During a time when he hardly knew Daisy, he still tries to offer her the kind of advice he thought would be helpful, so she wouldn’t get too attached and hurt.

Hunter is also unique in the sense that he actually criticizes shield, and never stops doing so. It is such a relief to have a character in those two seasons so unafraid of calling literally anyone out. When Mack is reasonably angry that Trip died over a mission Coulson refused to share details about, and May tells him to remember his “rank”, Hunter immediately says “really? Rank at a time like this?”

And, for May, especially at that time in the show, going back to the rules and protocols made sense for her. It offered her a certain amount of comfort and familiarity and if she distances herself from emotion and focuses on work, it helps her. I get that.

But what Hunter said is true. One of their members was dead, and while WE, the audience, understand what was going on and why Coulson did what he did, the other members of the team didn’t, and they all had to grieve for Trip without even knowing much of what was going on (Also, Mack literally got possessed by some mist). So he’s right. It really wasn’t the time for pulling the rank card.

This isn’t the first time he’s distrustful of shield (and reasonably so! I wished more characters would call out shield and the director, even if it was Coulson!) and that to me is part of the reason I like him.

Also during s2, when the “real shield” is revealed, despite Bobbi and Mack—the two people Hunter arguably knows best—being a part of it, Hunter still stops at nothing to inform Coulson, because while he may not completely agree with shield, he learned to trust Coulson and he’s LOYAL. He helps Fitz out, legitimately seems determined to locate Daisy after she disappears, and in the third season, he’s very clearly completely overjoyed that simmons is alive. Literally claps and yells “oh fitz, you absolute beauty!” When he hears fitz managed to help rescue simmons.

Those are all the actions and words of a man who CARES.

He also, arguably, is the funniest character on the show. By season 2 and season 3, that humour and wit was quite welcome. I legitimately found myself laughing out loud many times during his scenes. That’s another reason I like him.

As for how he treated Bobbi, I guess the reason it doesn’t bother me the way fitzsimmons bothers me (in terms of how Fitz treats Simmons) is because Bobbi is equally as flawed when it comes to their relationship and scenes as Hunter is. She doesn’t always treat him the best, and he isn’t always treating her the best, yet the both love and care for each other in their own way, so it’s very equal. I don’t think anyone uses them as an example of a perfect and healthy relationship, lol. She was a huge reason their relationship never worked out. I love Bobbi with all my heart and she’s one of my favourite aos characters, but she is a liar and she’s also very manipulative when she wants to be (which is not me hating her, I mean those aren’t good traits but they’re realistic and I WANT female characters to be flawed). We only really see them and their relationship after their divorce and after being informed that she lied to him all throughout their relationship and marriage (which makes sense, she wasn’t going to tell him about shield, but obviously keeping a big secret like that from your partner isn’t a good thing) We also than find out she was lying to him all throughout season 2, when they got back together. 

Hunter has quite a few moments where he’s a complete prick, but given the way he and Bobbi’s relationship was like and how dishonest she usually was with him (and all throughout s2 when they were supposedly trying to rebuild their relationship) him being annoyed at her and making a few comments doesn’t really bother me. 

I mean there’s no actual excuse for misogyny in general and all the aos male characters have certain questionable lines or scenes (due to the writing) so I’m not trying to say his worser moments are okay, I just don’t think he treated Bobbi very badly considering who she is, and what their relationship has always been. Especially when we get scenes like:

Bobbi *while lying to him for so long*: will you never trust me?

Hunter: but I'll never stop wanting to

Like this dude loves her and is protective of her, and overall actually takes her lying to him well (aside from a few comments and jokes). They’re both messed up people who clearly don’t really know how to properly hold on to a marriage and that’s why it kind of works? That’s why it doesn’t bother me as much because it’s like, okay, you both can be so goddamn horrible to each other, but you both care for each other so much. You both bring out the worst and the best in each other depending on the day and situation. 

It’s like Mack said: “Man, you two deserve each other”

This isn’t a Lance Hunter defense post necessarily,  I just want to point out the redeeming qualities I personally see in this character, and why they make me like this character, but I totally understand your opinion op and respect it!

#god I am a horrible person #in my defense #I replied to this ask very early on and then saved it to my draft because something came up last minute #only for it to apparently get buried in my drafts because it wasn't my most recent draft #Tumblr now sends drafted asks all the way to when the ask was first sent #so if you don't reply to an ask for a week and then save your reply #you'll have to scroll through a week's worth of drafts to find it #and...I have a lot of drafts. #like twenty new ones every day #I currently have 1000 drafts and that's after a month of trying to post a many as possible because I originally had 1300 #agents of shield #aos #aos meta #lance hunter #bobbi morse #huntingbird #layl.inbox

[theerurishipper]

I think two of my favorite double standards of how a certain group of Marinette stans reacts to the Paris special are:

1. Getting angry at Claw Noir for treating her badly (although he was ironically still the more empathetic one??) while simultaneously completely ignoring that Shadybug was treating him shitty too (cause, yknow, they don't take issue with Marinette treating people badly. She's always justified, can do no actual wrong and the world just needs to learn to cater to her every whim or else she's not treated "right").

All because it's heavily implied that Alt Marinette's crush was Claw (because he fits the criteria of thinking she's lame) but now suddenly the show's lesson that Adrichat's crush on Ladybug isn't in any way her problem somehow doesn't apply in reverse for her stans. Because of COURSE it doesn't, it's Maribug. Now suddenly Altrien is awful for not treating his rival well (who isn't treating him well either but tahts fine of course) and being immediately in love with Shadybug and being a gentleman, since here Alt Marinette wanted it and needed someone to take care of her.

Somehow Adrien/ Claw is the irrational asshole in all that bc Altinette had a secret crush on him and that means it's his responsibility by default, in some of her stans eyes, to take whatever treatment she puts him through without complaining but also be perfect towards her like Adrichat in s5 who had to cuddle her into her important trauma development and basically do all the emotional work in the love square.

2. Not only saying that Altinette had it "so much worse" than Altrien when they literally went through the same miraculous horror, Adrien as per usual gets barely any sympathy for his backstory from her fans even though his main problem (His father and dead mother) is actually depicted on screen in the special to explore it a bit further, while almost all of Marinette's backstory is off screen

but saying "Chloé bullied me" without Chloé ever even being SHOWN ONCE somehow is supposed to trump everything again. I legit saw people say that Alt Marinelle was JUSTIFIED in her actions and she deserved to take revenge. It's wasn't even said ironically or in a way that still acknowledged taht what she did was morally wrong, it was said in sympathetic support towards her bc Chloé was mean

(Sabine having been different in a negative way isn't even a factor for these people. Funnily, Chloé is apparently one of the most important characters in all of Miraculous for the extreme Marinette stans. But how DARE Adrien stans talk about Gabriel's horrible abuse of Adrien, since we've all long learned that Chloé is and has always been WORSE than Gabriel/ Monarch)

I honestly have nothing more to add, because you said it!

Thank you for your ask!

#MLB #ML Salt #ML Fandom Salt #Asks #Meta

[judasofsuburbia]

emilyyyyyyyyyyy....can i cheat and ask about the zombie apocalypse AU you keep teasing? 1 and 13? and maybe 11 with "won't be the same"? <3

LOU!!! ur literally my motivator rn to finish the zombie aus bc of how excited u are for them :,))

UNTITLED ZOMBIE AU

1: What inspired you to write the fic this way?

so MONTHS ago i saw this art of lucas by @bujomoss and the seed was planted but there was no real idea yet. THEN i was getting nostalgic about growing up in the south (mannerisms/culture only not ideals yuck) and thought about the possibility of eddie growing up in the south and trying really hard to get rid of his accent but it still comes out when he's stressed. then i thought...what kind of situation would stress eddie out?? a zombie apocalypse. AND FROM THERE sprouted the three part series about each of the spicy six couples navigating their romantic and sexual relationships whilst also taking care of the 7 teens. spiraled completely out of control and i love it!!

13: What music did you listen to, if any, to get in the mood for writing this story?

THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION bc i have been listening to all kinds of music over the last few weeks to see what encapsulates the mood of this series!! i started a spotify playlist (as i fucking do) and it features some bruce springsteen, phoebe bridgers, the mamas and papas, and other songs by artists that kind of encapsulate going through the end of the world.

WON'T BE THE SAME

15: What did you learn from writing this fic?

ooooo i think i learned that we're simply not aware of what steve's coping mechanisms are. we see glimpses of him in s2 with nancy being like "let's just be normal teens!!" but nothing concrete (duffers fucking give us a crying scene in s5 i s2g) so it was interesting to dive into how he would handle constantly seeing eddie in his dreams and the grief that came with that.

ask me a question about my fics!

#number 1 fan of zombie au award goes to lou #THANK U FOR THIS MY DEAR HEHEHE #sending u one next <3 #asks

[hoediaz]

tbh with buddie rn i could see the whole realization like wow I'm in love with my bestfriend happening after they are roommates, like it's been there all this time but it isnt until literally living in the same house, after all the work both have done in their relationship that suddenly the idea hits home, like wow I've been in love w them all this time... I think it's a good path for them and I'm being super normal about them starting this by fixing the wall together, literally building their new life together!!!

i absolutely agree! i actually think, and i'm not saying this is absolutely possible or what i THINK is gonna happen, but i think if i were in the writers room i would end s5 with buddie roommates and then i would start s6 with buck moved out already and then i would block all of twitter for bitching at me for that decision but stay with me here: it would be like quarantine happening off screen except that in this case it would be kinda clear from the get go that something went down during their roommates era that shifted things -- nothing huge like a hook up, and the shift isn't bad it's just a little awkward when they're alone together or when buck is at eddie's and they're reminded of That Time. i'd also lean into eddie pining and because this is my show and i'm the captain now eddie's trying to date other people (men) and it's not working and buck's :/ about it but he doesn't know why.

6x10 they finally talk about it and it's not that anything happened, it's just that they liked it too much -- they liked living together and raising chris together and everything that came with it, so buck had to leave (bc he didn't quite understand why he liked it so much but he knows he needed to learn to be alone and also maybe bc he's hiding a downward spiral) and maybe eddie asked him to stay (bc he did know why he liked it so much). the conversation ends with eddie confessing and also there's a mistletoe kiss in there for drew, but s6 would be a bit of a s5 redux in which 6a is bobby's breakdown era (like 5a was athena/maddie's more or less) and 6b is buck's (like 5b was eddie's). so 6b is eddie helping buck through his breakdown like buck helped eddie, there's the sentiment of like "yeah i'm in love with you but you don't need to be in love with me/take your time/i just want to be there for you/etc" s6 finale is buck essentially saying he's ready to try boom buddie canon everyone cheers

#asks #anon #is any of this gonna happen? no but i can dream #i agree that i really don't know how they could do a buddie roommates era without. something Changing #but i DO think if they do buddie roommates end of s5 buck will be moved out by 6x01

[acephysicskarkat]

the thing that amazes me about SPOP is that usually toxic gatekeepy shitheel fandoms fucking love minutiae. Which episode had Optimus Prime say this. When did Luke Skywalker’s second cousin Bob do that.

SPOP’s toxic fandom, on the other hand, seems to make ignoring the show a prerequisite.

You get takes like “Catra only wanted Adora to choose for herself!” when the show features multiple scenes across all five seasons where Catra lashes out at Adora for making any choice that doesn’t centre Catra’s wants first and foremost, and that’s not counting "White Out”, the episode where Catra proved willing to literally die rather than let Adora have the ability to choose for herself back.

You get “Catra tried to stop Adora from being memory-wiped because she Cared That Much” when Catra did not try to stop Adora from being memory-wiped (you may recall that Glimmer was the one who punched out Shadow Weaver) and only seemed to have any qualms with the plan when she learned that with Adora back in the Horde Shadow Weaver would take away her promotion. (although don’t get me wrong, the scene where she gives the sword back was basically the only competent bit of enemies-to-lovers writing in the entire show)

You get the claim that Catra pulled her punches against Adora, which doesn’t actually happen until S5. Between “The Promise” and “Save the Cat” there is no point where this is even implied, and multiple murder attempts (some of them excessively cruel), which make this claim absurd in pretty obvious ways.

You get “Catra knew Adora wouldn’t die from falling over the cliff” which is a thing the showrunner said well after the episode actually came out. There is nothing in the actual episode which implies this is the case.

You get “Catra was only violent towards She-Ra, not Adora” which is just a flat-out fucking lie, like the show contains many scenes where Catra attacks Adora outside her She-Ra form.

It’s genuinely quite funny to me how much of the c/a fandom is fixated on this entirely imaginary version of the show that has almost nothing in common with the actual show that you can actually watch on Netflix.

#spopcrit

[beepboop358]

Victor Creel Theories

(also includes ST movie DNA series: Star Wars)

Victor Creel is described as "a disturbed and intimidating man who is imprisoned in a psychiatric hospital for a gruesome murder in the 1950s." We know he will be institutionalized at Penthurst mental hospital, where Peter Ballard works, based on leaked on set pics.

There a few possibilities regarding his character:

He could be a former test subject with some kind of powers and a connection to the upside down (which would also follow the even/odd season pattern of a main character being directly involved with the upside down creatures) I think it's highly likely that Victor Creel will be involved with the mystery/danger in Hawkins in some way, and have a connection to the upside down. He could also be disturbed on top of this, and he could be involved in Eleven's storyline this season.

That he is not a test subject and is ONLY mentally disturbed.

He may be related to one of the already established characters. Most likely Joyce, and maybe Terry but it's a stretch.

Before I go any further into that last possibility, I just want to preface that this idea of an "evil father/grandfather with powers" could be a purposeful Star Wars parallel. The Duffer brothers have already paralleled and used Star Wars references a few times in the show:

In Star Wars, Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father, and Palpatine is Rey's grandfather (aka the literal worst guy in the universe). A common theme in ST is abusive/bad fathers - that post here. Interesting...

Palpatine is also Anakin Skywalker's father, so Luke and Leia are both the grandkids of Palpatine as well as Rey is, but it's unclear if they are just force midichlorian related or actually dna related as well but I won't get into that here!

Luke and Rey are both force sensitive (have powers), so are Darth Vader and Palpatine; their descendants (kid/grandkid) have powers, and so do they (father/grandfather) The descendants use their powers for good, while the ancestors use their power for evil. Who has powers in ST? Eleven and Will - and they both already have this idea of abusive/bad/evil fathers: Will has an abusive father Lonnie, and Eleven has an abusive father figure Dr. Brenner "Papa".

So... Victor Creel being the evil/bad grandfather to either Eleven or Will and the evil/bad father to Joyce or Terry, would make a FULL Star Wars parallel to people who are morally good and have powers (Will and El - Luke and Rey), discovering they are the descendant of an evil male figure who also has powers (Victor Creel - Darth Vader and Palpatine)

If Victor Creel turns out to be the father of anyone in the show my bets are it's either Joyce Byers or maybeee Terry Ives.

If he was a test subject, its likely he went "crazy" with some of his powers and the government couldn't cover it up so they declare him mentally insane to get him committed, and he probably goes insane being locked away as well. Personally, I think he may be 001 or an early test subject, when they were still working out the kinks of the program, and I think he does have a big connection to the upside down.

The Duffer Brother's on s4: "In Hawkins a new horror is beginning to surface, something long buried, something that connects everything"....

Now let's get into the possibilities for Creel's storyline/who he could be related to (split into 3 parts).

Part 1: Creel could be Joyce's father

Based on Victor Creel's description as "disturbed" and that he is "in a psychiatric hospital", it could connect him to Joyce's bloodline.

There are several comments in the show hinting to this idea of mental instability in Joyce's family:

s1 ep.5: When Lonnie comes to visit in s1 after Will goes missing, Joyce says to Lonnie "No, don't look at me like that, like how everyone is looking at me, like I'm out of my damn mind" He responds saying "I think you need to consider the possibility that this is all in your head. Remember your Aunt Darlene?" Joyce quickly replies, "No, this is not that."

That conversation, although quick, is very telling. Lonnie is implying that Joyce had an aunt who was mentally unstable - and Joyce clearly knows about her aunt being unstable because she responds to his comment by saying what's she's experiencing is not that (the mental instability of her aunt)

s2 ep.2: Joyce says to Bob, "this is not a normal family", when he suggest moving out of Hawkins.

I used to think Joyce was always was referring to the whole 'my son got stuck in an alternate dimension with supernatural monsters and is now traumatized, and we were sworn to secrecy by the government' thing but maybe she is also referring to her biological family.

s1 ep.2: When they are searching for Will, one of the other police officers, says "Joyce is one step from the edge" and the other officer responds "She has been several steps for quite a while now".

If Joyce is related to Victor Creel biologically, and he did also happen to be a test subject, has powers, or has some other relation to the upside down, this could possibly have contributed to whatever kind of abilities Will has, because he would be a descendant of Creel. But Joyce does not seem to have any powers and neither does Jonathan. If they were related to Creel, it's odd that they both didn't get powers, but Will did. I've always thought Will was born with his powers, like El.

We know almost nothing about Joyce's past, it's never discussed in the slightest in the show, which I feel like is purposeful. We don't know Joyce's maiden name; she doesn't change it back after she and Lonnie divorce. Maybe the Duffers are saving Joyce's backstory for s4 (and possibly s5), like I think they are doing with Will and El's connection. Will, El, Hopper, and Joyce were pictured in a series of 4 tweets posted by the stranger writers, hinting to the main 4 storylines for season 4. My analyzation of this tweet here.

I think it's possible that Joyce's storyline this season could also have to do with her past- not just her searching for Hopper- but also more personal information about her. Perhaps we will see flashbacks of younger Joyce and maybe learn about her biological relatives.

Noah also said this would be the darkest season for Will, so this idea of being the grandkid of someone evil or disturbed could fit into that.

Part 2: Creel could be Terry's father/Eleven's grandfather

The only other person I could see potentially having a biological; relation to Victor Creel could be Terry Ives and Eleven, (because it would complete the Star Wars parallel mentioned earlier) but it's a stretch for several reasons, the main one being that Terry and Becky's father Bill Ives, died in a car crash (year unknown).

So for Victor Creel to be Terry's father that either has to be:

Her adoptive father OR

Her mother cheated and led Mr. Ives to believe Terry was his kid but her father is really Victor Creel, and Becky is actually Bill Ives son (which would explain why Becky has no powers)

Right of the bat it's interesting Terry's father's name is Bill. Bill is a nickname for William (Will Byers full name is William), and Billy's a nickname also for William... Hmmm....

Immediately after El is born, Terry is adamant that Brenner stole her child to use as a weapon to fight the commies BECAUSE SHE HAD SPECIAL ABILITIES - and she's completely right about everything. How does Terry know El had powers immediately after she was born? Because she knows she has developed some kind of special abilities from the experiments as well. When El goes to visit her mother in s2, THE LIGHTS FLICKER, just like they do when the upside down is near, but it's not Eleven controlling it. Her Aunt Becky says it's just the wiring, and Eleven responds: "IT'S MAMA. She wants to talk." And then we see Terry's NOSE BLEED, just like El's does when she uses her powers.

Quick side note about El's biological father is Andrew Rich: (It's revealed in the canon novel Suspicious Minds that Andrew Rich is El's father) He was a college student who got expelled from school due to protesting the Nixon address, making him eligible to be drafted in the Vietnam war, and he died in battle. Terry was involved in the Project MKUltra experiments at Hawkins National Laboratory in College, under the direction of Dr. Martin Brenner, but didn't know she was pregnant at the time. Andrew never even knew Terry was pregnant, meaning she was extremely early on in her pregancy at the time he was sent away, not even Terry was aware yet. It's also stated in this book that BRENNER HAD A HAND IN GETTING ANDREW EXPELLED SO HE COULD SEND ANDREW AWAY. The novel states that Brenner has Andrew drafted because he wants to SCARE Terry, to show her how much power he has over her life. There's definitely some history between Terry and Brenner that we don't know about yet.

If Victor Creel is in fact Joyce's father it's interesting that the powers seem to have skipped a generation with Joyce, and also one kid with the Byers, but if Victor Creel is Terry's father, no generations were skipped in passing down powers. ANYWAYS, this is all just theories and speculation since we have no actual concrete reasons to believe he will be related to Joyce or Terry.

Part 3: The possibility that Creel could be involved in Eleven's storyline this season does not rely on them being biologically related.

**One of the filming locations for this season is the Claremont House, which is RUMORED to be Creel's house and also "Vecna's lair" the new monster for s4 (unconfirmed) This is the house the Hawkins group goes into in the ST4 sneak peek, where they see the grandfather clock striking midnight. If that's true, there's a connection between Creel and the upside down and having powers, which could connect Creel to Eleven. The Duffers: "In Hawkins a new horror is beginning to surface, something long buried, something that connects everything". This thing "that connects everything", could be Creel's storyline (his possible connection to the lab/upside down/person in the show), because Creel's storyline also spans all the way back to the 1950's and before that, so there's our "long buried" part most likely.

Robert Englund recently revealed in *an interview* that his character Victor Creel gouges his eyes out, making him unable to see. Englund also mentions what it's like working with Millie Bobby Brown and talks about the first time her met her, he doesn't mention any other cast members in detail like he does Millie.

He's clearly working closely with Millie's character Eleven.

But why? I think Creel could be involved with Eleven getting her powers back, and her reliving her past. Once the government baddies realize El has no powers, they're gonna want them back. If Creel was in fact a test subject, maybe there is some kind of connection between them, Such as Eleven revisiting what happened to her in her past and how that could relate to her getting her powers back.

Another thought I had was that perhaps the gruesome murder he committed is somehow related to something that ends up impacting in Eleven's life.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whatever Victor Creel's storyline is, it will be an important one, and it will carry somewhat into s5, since he will be a returning character. He is not signed as a series regular, but as a recurring character, which means we don't really know to what capacity he will be in s5. It could be flashbacks mostly, or he could have just as big or small of a role.

Source: indie wire

That detail about eyes being gouged out reminds me of fear street 1666 when the townsmen who was sacrificed to the devil becomes possessed and gouges the kids eyes out. Leigh Janick, director of fear street, is married to Ross Duffer. They both direct and make horror/sci-fi themed series about kids in a small town set in the 80's, who fight supernatural evil with a heavy undertone of queer themes, that are even filmed in a lot of the same locations (the mall, the town streets, etc.) I'm not saying it's the same thing, it definitely won't be. But there's so many similarities between ST and Fear Street, I thought I would mention this as another.

#stranger things #st movie dna series #st4 #stranger things 4 #stranger things season 4 #stranger things 4 spoilers #stranger things season 4 spoilers #stranger things four #stranger things season four #victor creel #joyce byers #st4 spoilers #st4 theory #st4 speculation #Terry ives #eleven #el hopper #eleven hopper #Jane byers #Jane hopper #will byers #Will Byers has powers #stranger things theory #stranger things 4 theory #stranger things obsessed #stranger things analysis #stranger things 4 speculation #stranger things meta #stranger things season 4 theory #st meta