#fire siblings meta

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Have you noted that no one from Azula's family was shown to express love and affection towards her?

That is mostly true. Ozai's affection is clearly conditional (and full on manipulation at worse, like we see in the finale), Ursa canonically favors Zuko to the point that we never see her spending any alone time with Azula like she did with Zuko, and while Iroh gave her a toy like he did to Zuko the toy in question was so OBVIOUSLY wrong for a kid like Azula that it's comical AND show's he did not really know his niece at all.

But there is a constant exception.

Zuko's relationship with Azula is complicated. He clearly admires her strength and power, but he hates how she uses it. She lied to him many times, was seen apparently cheering Ozai on during the Agni Kai, tried to have him imprisoned and even said she'd celebrate being an only child - and then allows him to come home as a hero after Ba Sing Se, even though SHE had the control of the Dai Li and was not yet aware Aang could have survived, meaning she had nothing to gain from it.

And when she lets him know that if he's caught talking to Iroh people might think he is a traitor too, and explicitly says "Believe it or not, I'm actually looking out for you" Zuko drops his innitial suspicion that she wanted something and that's why she was helping him.

On The Beach, he just follows her when she say their old family home is depressing and they shouldn't waste their time there. When she's asking him who she is angry at, she mentions herself and Zuko explicitly says that is not the case.

He doesn't trust her and know she has a tendency to mock or full on lie to him... yet when he wants to know about Fire Lord Sozin he asks her about it, and lets it slide when she mocks him by saying he should make sure the royal painter got his good side - for a character as quick to anger as Zuko, that is a big deal. In Nightmares and Daydreams he also goes to her to find out if he'll be allowed at the war meeting.

More importantly:

1 - Iroh's infamous "She's crazy and needs to go down" line was only said because ZUKO, without anyone putting that idea in his head before, suddenly went "I know what you're going to say. She's my sister and I should be trying to get along with her"

2 - Zuko only jumped into the fight in Ba Sing Se when Azula was being cornered by Aang and Katara.

3 - Zuko looked genuinely shocked and even distressed when she was falling off that cliff. He just sounded so shaken saying "She's... not gonna make it..."

4 - In the writer's own words, Zuko felt no hate but only pity when seeing her breakdown. Katara tried to comfort him because, canonically, even though Zuko and Azula are enemies, this was never what he wanted because he still sees her as family. That's why the Last Agni Kai's music is not the epic you'd expect from a battle, but a tragic one.

5 - Aaron Ehasz, the lead writter for the show, probably the person with the most influence after Bryke, has REPEATEDLY said that he always felt Azula should have gotten a redemption arc, Zuko being an Iroh figure to give her advice and be the only one still by her side when all else was seemingly lost to her forever.

Even the comics (most of which I HATE, mainly because Azula's storyline checks nearly every box for "the mentally ill are inherently evil/less human, so it's fine if literally every other person on the planet mistreats them") didn't fully abandon their complex dynamic.

Zuko is not a perfect sibling, and for a long chunk of the story he seemed too focused on his own issues for Azula to ever be a factor in his mind (aside from the moments in which she was a potential/explict threat), but he DOES still feel a sense of obligation towards her, to the point that it made him do something no one else in their family had done before or since - actually look at Azula. Not the prodigious daughter/perfect weapon, or the problem child that is difficult to handle, or the pontentially deadly enemy that was in the way, but Azula.

His 14-year-old sister that got on his nerves a lot, was far from the kindest person alive, and that he had a ton of issues with, but that he could never fully hate or even be indifferent to. Because she's family. Because he remembers a happier time in which the gap between them didn't seem so big. Because if things had been slightly different he could have been her. Because he went from wanting to be her to seeing just how miserable her life ended up being - especially compared to the one he now had - and feeling deeply sorry for her.

Now if you guys excuse me, I'm gonna go cry in the corner. Have some wholesome/bittersweet fanart if you wanna cry too.

#azula meta #zuko meta #fire siblings #fire siblings meta

[zuko-always-lies]

What are your thoughts on any ways that Zuko and Azula's relationship could be reconciled post-canon (not including comics)? Because it's really hard to see any scenario - that isn't incredibly convoluted like the comics - where Zuko is willing to make amends/admit his mistakes and blindspots (which would be necessary for gaining her trust), especially considering he has no one pushing him to help Azula considering Iroh's disdain for her and the Gaang's far more rightful disdain for her. And of course even if he was willing to try once or twice Azula's obviously not going to jump at the opportunity to frolic in the gardens with him.

I have to agree. Azula showed tremendous kindness toward Zuko, and he stabbed her in the back and she lost everything because of it. She has zero incentive to try to reconcile again or to trust him again.

Zuko has plenty on his plate with being an unprepared 16 year old Firelord. He also both has massive resentment toward Azula, largely for things she wasn't even responsible for, and zero understanding of her whatsoever. She's so demonized in his mind that I doubt he'd have much desire to try to help her, and even if he wished to help her, he has so little understanding of her experiences that he would probably make things worse. Best case scenario is he that puts Azula in some sort of place he can forget about her in and ignores her. Worst case scenario is that he's actively abusive toward her.

However, I could see several situations which might lead toward reconciliation. One would be that they both grow up. Once Zuko matures a bit, gets more life experience, gets further away from Ozai's abuse, and maybe even his children of his own, he might look at his relationship with Azula in a different light. Azula being able to look back at what happened at a distance of several years might also dull a bit of the pain and the hurt for her.

Another alternative, a very dark one, draws from the fact that Azula is broken and desperate and lonely and isolated at the end of the series. She might latch onto Zuko like she did Ozai and be willing to go to extreme lengths and do anything to earn his approval. Note that this is the "Ehasz arc."

A more attractive alternative is that a third party mediates between Zuko and Azula in a way that ultimately improves their relationship. That would be very difficult in itself but more realistic than any other alternative. The most suitable candidates I can think of for this are Ursa and Mai, both who are highly incentivized to do what they can to have the Fire siblings get along. The Gaang wouldn't be the best choice here, as they're only children themselves and don't know Azula well. Ty Lee also wouldn't be great in this role, since Zuko doesn't respect her and won't listen to her.

#Azula #Azula meta #fire siblings #Zuko #zuko critical #I guess? #In case it isn't clear most of the problems that Azula and Zuko have in their relationship #come from the abusive environment they were raised in #fire siblings meta #reconciliation

[timur-pannonicus]

Zuko and Azula had no reference for what a normal or healthy sibling relationship is like

To address the always present argument about whether their relationship was abusive and who abused who. People point out that being mean and competitive, sometimes to the point of being hurtful, is not unusual for siblings.

I agree. But my point here is that Zuko and Azula don't know that.

Neither is either of them in their early to mid adulthood where the majority of people who had siblings they never got along with start understanding and forgiving.

Azula and Zuko most likely think that their rivalry is NOT a common thing. They lack examples from others in their lives.

I know bringing up the comics is justifiably frowned upon but in the Search, Zuko is absolutely bewildered by Sokka's and Katara's behavior towards each other, which was nothing more than fun bickering. But let's look what can be concluded or assumed from the show.

Iroh and Ozai were both well into adulthood when Zuko and Azula were born and they sadly did not reconcile their differences. They most likely behaved very icy to one another but the demands of court probably required them to act in a very civil and respectful seeming way. In Zuko Alone we can conclude Ozai didn't say anything nice, warm or funny about Iroh to Azula as seen by her attitude to her uncle and Iroh likely didn't tell any fun anecdotes either due to either being away at war or because he didn't want to risk a fight with his brother.

Ursa might have had siblings and cousins but nothing in the show confirms that and the comics clearly say she did not.

Mai didn't get a brother until she was 14.

Ty Lee has six sisters but it's quite possible that each of them had a "pair" in their matched set and Ty Lee was the only one left out, made worse by the fact that her parents seemed to barely acknowledge her. It's possible that only her friendship with Azula made her stand out at all, which likely contributed to her desire for uniqueness and independence too. In any case she likely didn't have much interaction with her biological sisters.

There seems to have been no other kids in the palace with whom Azula and Zuko could interact, limiting their scope of experience and insight.

Zuko not realizing that little siblings tend to be annoying and mean and do pranks has been discussed in detail by others and I don't think I have to add anything.

But, AZULA did not realize some things about older siblings either. They can be entitled, patronizing, attention hogging, dismissive, rude and even cold. Countless older siblings have told the younger ones that they were adopted or found in the trash or said and done even worse things.

One way to simplify the rivalry between Zuko and Azula is to say each was jealous of the attention the other was receiving from a parent.

However, sadly for them their parent's relationship was strained either from the start or after a while, to put it lightly.

Add the fact that they were sheltered and secluded royalty and what they learned about what siblings should be like most likely comes from official ceremonies and rituals, state approved stories and plays, idealized versions that don't correspond with reality.

Plus due to the Fire Nation being a blend of East Asian cultures it's likely they have some form of Confucian ethics. According to those the younger sibling owes obedience to the older and the older is bound to protect the younger. I think it's not too much of a stretch to believe both Zuko and Azula felt wronged in that regard by the other but both were too stubborn to give.

I can't blame Zuko too much for not realizing Azula was trying to help him a few times. Boy was brought up to believe that little sisters SHOULD be very kind, nice and demure. Even if he had acknowledged her efforts he'd still be inwardly pushed to believe she was doing it wrong.

So yeah, both could use a very long life changing field trip with Katara and Sokka, who were both allowed to develop their relationship naturally.

I think I've said enough for now. This is how I see things AT THE TIME OF WRITING.

I tried, really tried to be as fair to Zuko as possible and not harp the poor Azula harp. But if anyone wants to scream at me and be rude over my obviously wrong opinion on either fire sibling, don't expect a response from me.

#azula #avatar the last airbender #zuko #atla #fire siblings meta #zuko meta #azula meta

[prodogg]

That scene here is the most normal sibling interaction between the fire sibs, I can relate because when I ask my sister for something she just loves to include an insulting remark, like a typical sister, annoying her older brother to hell. I think without the adults in their life failing them and a non abusive household those two could have been very close, I mean the show gave us hints, with for example the blind teamwork between those two. All in all this was just peak sibling behavior.

#Zuko #princezuko #Prince Zuko #Azula #princess Azula #princessazula #atla #avatar the last airbender #pd talks #all my opinion #fire siblings #fire sibs #fire siblings meta #ofc it’s still fucked up since Zuko’s scar is still a sore spot for him and a low blow from Azula

[akiizayoi4869]

Why the theory that Azula brought Zuko home to use him as a scapegoat makes no sense

Because she literally had no way of knowing that Aang had the possibility of surviving her attack. For all she knew, he was dead. She didn't start to suspect that he may have survived until the scene between her and Zuko at the turtleduck pond:

Up until this point, she had no reason to believe that Aang had survived. It wasn't until Zuko quite obviously lied to her about the possibility of this(and to her this seems like a traitorous move on his part. She helped him get back home which was what he wanted, and then he unintentionally throws all of them under the bus by not telling her about the spirit water. Which ties into what happened later.) that she began to suspect it.

Now onto what happens later on in this episode. Zuko barges into her room in the middle of the night, demanding to know why Azula lied to Ozai about who actually "killed" Aang. As a response, she says this:

Now yes, at this point she was using him as a scapegoat. But that wasn't her original intention when she brought him back home. She just wanted her brother back home with her. What happened in this scene is basically the equivalent of using an uno reverse card against an opponent. Zuko stupidly lied to her about the possibility of Aang being alive, which put all of them(Zuko, Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee) in danger. So she reversed that lie back to him so this way he alone would suffer if the truth ever came out. Thus saving herself, Mai, and Ty Lee. Now, was she right in doing this? No. Is it fucked up? Yes. But that's what happens in an abusive household. You do whatever you can to save yourself, even if that means a loved one gets the brunt of the fall. Even if you don't come from an abusive household, this is what siblings do to each other when both of them are responsible for something that they know will get them in trouble with they're parents or whoever the guardian is: they push the blame onto the other one, so as to save their own skin and not get into trouble. My sister and I did this a lot growing up whenever we did something stupid that we knew would get us into trouble.

So yeah, in conclusion Azula's original intentions with bringing Zuko home was not to use him as a scapegoat. It just turned out that way later on because of what he did, or rather didn't do, first.

#atla #azula #zuko #the scapegoat theory literally makes no sense #Zuko and Azula are siblings #take out the abusive household situation and this becomes your average sibling dynamic #where you lie about something that you did and say your brother/sister did it #so that you won’t get into trouble and put on punishment #fire siblings meta #atla analysis #akiizayoi4869 meta

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

Zuko Did the Honorable Thing by Challenging Azula to the Final Agni Kai

Lately, there seems to be a popular strain of thought in ATLA fandom that the 16 year old Zuko was dishonorable in accepting his clearly mentally unstable sister’s Agni Kai challenge for the Fire Nation throne.

Or that the 16 year old Zuko challenging the 14 year old Azula to an Agni Kai is the same as the middle aged Ozai challenging the 13 year old Zuko to an Agni Kai due to “disrespecting” him in his war council meeting.

But when you look at the complete context, not only is there no equivalence whatsoever between Ozai’s challenge and Zuko’s acceptance, but also Zuko did the honorable and most sensible thing he could have considering the circumstances.

For it is it sad that Azula’s mental state deteriorated so hard that Zuko, who she is normally superior to, believed he could take her one on one?

Yes.

It is sad that two siblings, who, despite all that happened between them, do deep down care for each other, and yet, instead of being able to resolve their issues peacefully, instead have to fight each other till one of them is dead or subdued due to being on the opposite sides of a war that started long before either of them was born?

Yes.

It is sad that Iroh said that he could not fight his younger brother because history would negatively view two siblings fighting for the throne while in the same breath sending his underage surrogate son to fight his underage niece to death? 

Or that instead of subduing Azula himself with a handful of his fellow White Lotus members, Iroh instead deliberately choose to leave the fate of the Fire Nation and his remaining non-Ozai family in two teenagers' hands (Zuko and Katara) in favor of going on an ego trip liberating Ba Sing Se? Especially since TV!Iroh, even when out of shape, has hype and feats that suggest that he can easily defeat TV!Azula without hurting her or getting himself hurt?

Yes.

It is sad that Ozai, if he knew that Zuko was going to challenge his prodigy for the, as far as he knows, now worthless Fire Nation throne, would probably encourage it since in his twisted mind, either Azula gets to “redeem” herself for “failures” and for lying to his face about the Avatar’s survival, or Zuko will have done the world a favor by eliminating his “disappointing” daughter, who was not worthy of his “love” after all?

Yes.

It is sad that instead of getting a real chance to heal and atone for her actions after getting involuntarily psych warded, Azula instead got abused in her asylum to the point that her mental health further degraded, causing fans, and probably everyone in-universe outside of Zuko and Ursa after the actions she took because of said degraded mental health, to believe that she was always a psycho and/or that she had “second chance”, and yet threw it away?

Yes.

But the key point is that Azula was the agent of a genocidal, imperialist, colonizing regime, and was going to continue perpetuating violence on the world if she took the throne. Meanwhile, Zuko was an anti-imperialist seeking to take the throne so he could stop the Fire Nation’s unjust and vile war of aggression. 

And that Azula, even if she was mentally stable, was not going to be peacefully persuaded that everything she had been taught was wrong. Nor was she going to be peacefully persuaded that the world would never trust her on the throne, especially when Zuko, who at the point of the Agni Kai had shown he was a committed anti-imperialist, was a viable claimant and had a close connection with the Avatar.

For while we, the audience, know that Azula does have inner conflict and wishes that there was another path to take other than the one her father set out for her, Zuko and Katara don’t know that.

But what they do know is that: Azula is the hyper-competent Fire Princess who hunted them across the Earth Kingdom; that Azula is the person who overthrew Ba Sing Se with just two friends while also managing to turn Zuko and put a lightning bolt in Aang’s back; that she helped suggest  the “let’s burn the Earth Kingdom” plan, or at best suggested scorched earth tactics; that she actively encouraged the cruel treatment of prisoners of war like Suki; and that she started actively hunting them again once Team Avatar made a public reappearance on the Day of Black Sun.

And in Zuko’s case, Azula was his secondary abuser from childhood, attempted to kill him several times, and, as far as he knows, killed the love of his life after she saved him and half of Team Avatar from boiling alive in the Boiling Rock.

Also, Zuko was probably thinking ahead to when he needed to assert authority once he, Aang, and Katara successfully overthrew Ozai’s regime, and thus needed some way to legitimize his claiming of power.

For as far as the average Fire Nation citizen would be concerned, Zuko would be the traitorous crown prince who turned on his nation just when they were going to fulfill Sozin’s dream for the world in favor joining the demonic Air Nation Avatar so he could overthrow his highly regarded father and war hero sister so he could take the throne for himself.

And to make things even worse, Zuko’s only real domestic allies would be: the traitorous former Crown Prince General Iroh, the traitorous deserters Jeong Jeong, Piandao, and Chey, and the treasonous Ladies Mai and Ty Lee, if the Ladies miraculous survived being executed by Azula as far as Zuko is concerned.

So when Azula not only appears to be severely off her A-game, but also gift-wraps Zuko the means to legitimately take the throne, Zuko did what any sensible person would have done and accepted it, a choice that is vindicated by canon.

For even after Aang de-bends Ozai before allowing Zuko to jail him, and Zuko manages to involuntary psych ward Azula after winning their Agni Kai, Zuko constantly faces assassination attempts in Ozai’s name, and even an organized Ozai restoration movement in the form of the New Ozai Society, barely managing to survive all these threats to his life.

(Legacy tells us that Zuko officially won the Agni Kai even though Azula burned him, presumably because she attacked a non-duelist.)

So if Ozai, who had been defeated by a fully realized Avatar at the height of his power and spiritually mutilated as punishment for his transgressions against balance, was still was able to invoke such feelings in the Fire Nation population, imagine what would have happened if Zuko, instead of fighting Azula in an Agni Kai, instead decided to jump her in a 2 v 1 with a “snow peasant” before forcing the Fire Sages at fire and/or ice point to crown him Fire Lord?

Well, in my opinion, either Azula becomes an especially potent martyr if she dies, even compared to the scenarios where Azula dies in the Agni Kai since at least Agni Kais have the built in assumption that you are willingly risking your life by engaging in one, or, assuming that the 2 v 1 still ends with Azula alive and involuntarily psych warded instead of being killed, Zuko would have probably faced an Azula restoration movement. 

And in the latter scenario, assuming that Azula manages to escape Zuko’s custody like she does in canon due to Aang's unwillingness to use energybending except as an alternative to summary execution and Zuko’s selfish desire to find Mommy at all costs, even if it means putting the post-war order in danger, instead of Azula eventually realizing that no one will support her claim to the throne, and thus her "realization" that her destiny is to “help” Zuko, Azula instead would have joined up with the movement and easily dispatched Zuko and his friends/allies before restoring the old regime en route to restarting the Hundred Year War.

And obviously Zuko wants to keep on living alongside his friends and allies so that they can, among other things, build the world of peace and love that they desire instead of the world of hatred and subjugation that the Fire Nation created during the Hundred Year War.

Not to mention, at the time of Azula’s challenge, Zuko didn’t even know that energybending was a thing, making it more crucial that he delegitimize Azula, for even if she was jailed or psych warded, if she managed to escape his custody, she could easily train to surpass him once again before attempting to violently overthrow him.

And before you call this fear unfounded, Azula did canonically manage to surpass Zuko again post-Sozin Comet, and has attempted, and is still attempting to, overthrow Zuko, either by outright overthrowing him, or by turning him into her puppet.

But to wrap things up, while it is tragic that that the Final Agni Kai had to happen, that Azula never got the help she needed after loosing, and that the Agni Kai is used to demonize Azula, the fact is that considering what Azula was fighting for, and the fact that Zuko needed all the help in legitimize his rule while also delegitimizing his main probable rival claimant and her potential to be a potent martyr if he did end up having to kill her, Zuko did the honorable and sensible thing by accepting Azula’s Agni Kai challenge.

#azula #zuko #fire siblings #post war fire siblings #fire nation #fire nation royal family #atla #atla comics #fire siblings meta #post war fire siblings meta #fire nation meta #fire nation royal family meta #atla meta #atla comics meta #azula is a victim and victimizer #azula is a colonizing imperialist #justanotherthrowaway1950meta

[hello-nichya-here]

Do you think Zuko is a better firebender than Azula? Saw some asks about it and they always say Zuko is.

Depends on where they're at in the show's timeline.

For the majority of it, Azula is the superior bender between the two of them. She's the prodigy, practices regularly and refuses to accept anything other than a perfect result. Meanwhile, Zuko lets his ego and impatience get the best of him, and ignores Iroh's pretty sound advice of "You need to master the basics before going to the advanced stuff."

However, Zuko was never a BAD bender. He just wasn't on Azula's level.

Then, they reached a turning point. Zuko let go of his need for Ozai's approval and validation, while Azula was being crushed under the weight of his expectations. Zuko had found a support system in his new friends, while Azula lost hers because she mirrored all the bad behavior Ozai had in every relationship of his. And, finally, Zuko learned from the dragons, strengthening his connection to the spiritual side of firebending, while Azula was not only still holding onto the "old way" but was actively being psychologically destroyed by it - which led to her making many mistakes that she never had trouble avoiding before.

By the end of the show, he is a better bender than her. Their roles could be reversed again if she heals and learns from the dragons too, but that's a whole other conversation. For now, Zuko is the "winner."

#asks #fire siblings #fire siblings meta #azula meta #zuko meta #firebending

[juniperhillpatient]

“🎶dad’s going to kill you🎶”

I feel like this scene gets twisted & mixed up a lot & part of that is weird ret cons in the comics that I’d prefer not to get into but in the context of the show, let’s remember this is a 7(?) year old. Now as an adult sometimes I’ll laugh at uncomfortable moments (everyone who’s ever been to a Halloween haunted attraction with me knows I giggle maniacally when I’m scared lol) & as a kid it was even worse, laughing when people cried etc. The fact that Azula was only - what? - 5 or 6? 7? idk young - during this scene is easy to overlook because she’s just illustrated her immense intelligence. There’s a reason “gifted kids” are stereotypically socially awkward.

Kids have to learn emotional & social skills at a young age & that gets messed up when intellectual pursuits beyond their developmental stage are pushed. Also, Azula & Zuko’s positions are unique as royals in an imperialistic family. Ursa scolds Azula for violent or cruel behavior & thinks there’s something wrong with her, even though Azula is only acting the way her father encourages her to act. I’ve seen some speculation that Azula maybe didn’t think there was a real possibility that Zuko was in real danger or she’d be more scared. I disagree. She answered Azulon’s questions about the Fire Nation military flawlessly in the scene before this. She’s demonstrated that she understands the royal court with her comments about how Ozai could become Firelord. She’s also shown that she can be casual about death with her lack of reaction to Lu Ten’s death. These aren’t moral condemnations, they’re observations about her behavior.

“Azula didn’t understand that Zuko might really die” is a fine theory but I think Azula is too smart for that. I also think we have to remember what a master she is of hiding her true emotions behind a mask. She’s so good at it she can even lie to Toph, who can feel when people lie. Azula doesn’t always lie but Azula always keeps her emotions close to her chest, she’s been conditioned to believe she has to. That’s why the breakdown hurts so bad. Years of repressed hurt & fear are spilling out over her broken edges.

Azula understands the questions Azulon asks her, she’s being taught about the Fire Nation & it’s values, she knows what Azulon is capable of doing. I interpret Azula as fully understanding what’s happening. I think that’s why she tries to tease & goad Zuko into running away. It’s often ignored that regardless of how she goes about it, Azula ultimately saves Zuko’s life by talking about what she overheard. I also think she fully understood the potential repercussions. She wasn’t supposed to spy on that conversation & she knew it. She knew she was committing treason by sharing private plans made by the Firelord, let’s give her credit for her intelligence & understanding of politics.

I interpret Azula as having fully understood the situation. However, I don’t think she’s a soulless monster for laughing & teasing Zuko about it, even if it’s completely understandable that Zuko wouldn’t know how to interpret this behavior & in the aftermath, probably considers it a traumatic memory. Even years later, he chants “Azula always lies,” the mantra he said to himself that night, even though Azula wasn’t lying then. I want to be clear that I’m not discounting how traumatic this was for Zuko to hear, or for him to lose his mother & watch Azula act blasé about it afterward (even if we later see that losing Ursa affected Azula too. the emotional distance between the siblings is a tragedy. they could have been there for each other, but their situation prevented it.) Still - back to my original point - Azula isn’t emotionally mature at this point in the story. We learn in “The Beach” that even as a teen she still hasn’t learned how to behave in social settings. Why would she understand as a small child how to convey horrifying information to her brother in a proper way when she wasn’t even equipped to emotionally process what she heard herself?

The tragedy is that after Ursa leaves, the distance between Azula & Zuko grows. I can just picture them both laying in their separate rooms, thinking about that night. Azula knows that Zuko could have died, & it feels like Mom blamed her, & Mom never said goodbye to her & she doesn’t know why. The last interaction they had was Mom scolding her, & Mom always thought she was a monster…. She could become disposable to Dad too, it could happen if she doesn’t keep outdoing Zuko…. She has to always be the best, or she could be treated like Zuko….

And Zuko just keeps hearing that sing song voice in the back of his mind. Azula would have laughed if he died. Azula always hated him, & only cares about outdoing him & Mom is gone & he’s left with Dad, who only ever looks at him with disappointment & disdain… Azula keeps saying “you’ll never catch up” & the mocking hurts so bad… it’s not fair how Azula is so adored & loved & he’s all alone, he has no one… Uncle Iroh is around again, but he’s different after Lu Ten’s passing. quiet. Distant… Zuko just wants to make his father proud but the task feels more impossible every day. Then one day he begs to go into a war meeting, he wants to show that he understands the Fire Nation military. He wants to make his father proud. But what the men are saying is horrible & he just has to speak up….

#fire siblings meta #fire family meta #sorta???? idk what this is lmao #it started as me saying I think azula did understand what was happening when she warned Zuko #but then I kept rambling as I’m known to do

[firenaition]

thinking about what zuko means to azula and weeping. he's a traitor but he's your brother. he held you when you were born. he's banished for being too weak to hurt your father and you learn to hate his goodness. he is somewhere in the world carrying your eyes. he misses your absent mother more than he loves you but that is the price you pay for being the one who stayed. he never grants you this same kindness. you are faster and deadlier and better but it doesn't change the fact that your brave big brother used to tell you stories of dragons every time it stormed because you were so afraid of the thunder. he is the only one who understands what it means to bear the brunt of your bloody inheritance. he crumbled under the weight of it, but you stayed. you always stay. he is half of you. you hate being betrayed.

you don't love him. he's your big brother. who could you possibly love more?

#my favorite most tortured sibling dynamic in the world #zuko and azula #zuko #azula #atla #avatar: the last airbender #fire nation #fire siblings #ozai #iroh #atla meta #poetry #atla comics

[staliaqueen]

I rewatched The Avatar and the Fire Lord a few days ago, and god, what a good episode. Revealing that Zuko is a descendant of both Sozin and Roku was a genius move (and that's not even getting into the Zuko/Aang parallels of it all). But there's something the show doesn't seem to think of, and that I haven't seen anyone in the fandom discuss either — the fact that Zuko isn't the only one descendant from both these men. Azula is, too.

The conclusion of this story that Iroh presents to Zuko at the end of the episode is that he alone — because of his lineage from both men the war was started from — is uniquely capable of cleansing the sins of his family and the fire nation and bringing peace to the world. But, the thing is, there's two sides of this conflict, and therefor two sides to its legacy. The external and the personal. The legacy of the external is the war, but the legacy of the personal is the sibling rivalries that kept repeating through generations of the royal family.

Though Roku and Sozin were not actually related, they were childhood friends as close as siblings and fucking shared a birthday, so the symbolism works. We know very little about Azulon's childhood or if he even had any direct sibling rivalries like this at all, but from what I can find on his wiki page, we know that Sozin favoured him over "other family" (I'm assuming his siblings). What we know very well, however, is what happened in the next generation between Iroh and Ozai. We know Azulon favoured Iroh over Ozai, and that this likely is the initial source of their hatred for each other, which resulted in perhaps the worst sibling rivalry of them all (what with the indirect patricide and throne stealing).

Then we go on to Zuko and Azula, whose upbringing kept going in the same patterns, but the key difference is them being the first ones to both be descendant from the men who started it all. If Zuko having this lineage makes him uniquely capable of ending the cycle of war in his country and restoring balance to the world, shouldn't that mean that both he and Azula having this lineage makes them uniquely capable of ending the cycle of brutal sibling rivalries and restoring balance to their family?

This conclusion I've presented seems to fit perfectly with the lesson Aang draws from the same story as well:

"Roku was just as much Fire Nation as Sozin was, right? If anything, their story proves that anyone's capable of great good and great evil. Everyone, even the Fire Lord and the Fire Nation, have to be treated like they're worth giving a chance."

I know this is supposed to be foreshadowing to Aang refusing to kill Ozai later, but I can't help but think it's even more applicable to fourteen year old Azula. It's really so ironic that the show runners thought Azula deserved what she got when their own show seems to be telling them that Zuko mending his relationship with her is what he ultimately should've done.

But, then again... that does sort of make her the perfect tragedy.

#meta #azula #princess azula #zuko #prince zuko #zuko x azula #avatar the last airbender #atla #avatar meta #avatar the last airbender meta #atla meta #uncle iroh #fire lord ozai #fire lord azulon #fire lord sozin #avatar roku #i LOVE tragic siblings have i mentioned this before? #also can't wait for this either to get 0 notes or invite a bunch of brain dead angry replies #it's pretty much either or for me in this fandom

[greenqueenhightower]

Going back to episode 3 and the scenes at the camp you can see the end of an era in Alicent’s life. The end of her childhood and innocence and the beginning of what will turn out to be constant worrying about her children’s future. It’s her son’s second name day ffs and she is sidelined by everyone, including Viserys. She feels excluded from the political talks that directly involve her son and she is treated like an ornament that compliments Viserys’ life and reign, that maybe makes it prettier somehow, but has to match the rest of the furniture. You can see that she looks melancholy and sorrowful in that scene. I also like the costuming detail showing how she tries to dress in the Targaryen colors, how she tries to blend in, but at the end of the day no one pays any attention and she only manages to match with the curtains. :(

#this makes me so sad #my queen #alicent hightower #the green queen #alicent #pro alicent hightower #team greens #house of the dragon #hotd #hotd thoughts #alicent thoughts #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #hotd episode 3 #second of his name #aegon ii targaryen #emily carey #green siblings #hotd analysis #hotd meta #anti viserys i targaryen #greenqueenrants #greenqueenhightower

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Have you noted how when it comes to Mai & Ty Lee, Azula has no qualms letting them know that in the long run, their voice doesn't matter. She think she knows what's better for them. However when it's Zuko, she also does think she knows what's better for him, that she knows what he wants deep inside, but it matters to her that this choice is not foisted upon him. She wants him to have freedom of choice, she wants the loyalty of the prince of the FN on its side/her brother on her side GENUINELY, not compulsorily. So like, does that mean Azula is classist towards her own friends because they're not royalty? Does she, in a way, have more respect for Zuko than she has for her friends?

While Zuko out-ranking both Mai and Ty Lee in Azula's mind because, instead of just being a noble like them, he is a royal like her, is indeed one of the reasons why she allowed him to choose, but it's not the only one (and even then we have moments like Azula not punishing Mai for explicitly disobeying her in The Drill, something very few people would get away with, nobility/royalty or not).

For starters, while at first Mai and Ty Lee didn't want to fully cut Azula out of their lives, they wanted to be able to decide how close she could get to them, how much influence she'd have over their lives - they wanted her as their friend, not as the princess they MUST obey. Mai and Ty Lee wanted to be able to leave, even if not permanently. Meanwhile, Zuko wanted to come back. Even after all the horrible things their family put him through, he still wanted to be part of it.

Of course Azula, the control-freak with severe abandonment issues, is going to offer a choice to the person that actively wants to return to their toxic cycle, not to the ones that are trying to break it. Of course she'll be more leanient with the person that is trying to be in her life and more hostile to the ones that are, in her eyes, pushing her away. And we see in the last few episodes that, when Zuko regreted his choice, any sympathy, compassion and respect she ever had for him was suppressed and she went for the "I'm going to celebrate becoming an only child" approach because Azula can't handle rejection.

There's also her loyalty to the Fire Nation, and more importantly to Ozai, to take into account as well. When she's reunited with Mai and Ty Lee in book 2, she's not demanding them to simply keep her company, she's recruiting them for a mission because she genuinely believes they're far more competent for the job than anyone else, and she's right. Ozai is canonically the person Azula loves the most in the whole world, and she takes her role as princess, and possible future Fire Lord, VERY seriously. She might care about her friends in her own way, but they're gonna have to understand that what they want is simply not as as important to her as what Ozai wants and what Azula believes is best for the Fire Nation - and if they want to turn their backs on her when she's doing right their country and Fire Lord, then they are forgetting their place and need to be reminded of it, and in fact should be thankful that is "allowing them to correct their behavior" instead of going labelling them as traitors right away.

And then there's Zuko. The banished prince that is likely never going to be allowed home again. The one that went against Azula for the Avatar - but not to help the Avatar. His intention is not to harm the Fire Nation, but to prove his loyalty to it. Sure, he's doing it by stealing a big opportunity from his sister and princess, but I think we all know Azula would do the same. By doing this he is also showing that he is no longer the "weak" child that cowered before a fight, because let's face it, Azula might understand what the pain of desperately trying to live up to impossible standards feels like, but she is yet to realize that Ozai is in the wrong for imposing said standards on them.

Zuko is not a disobedient ally/subordinate, he's an enemy that is showing he can be VERY useful, provided he is given what he wants. He also cannot and will not be intimidated - literally everytime Azula is posing any kind of threat to him during the entirity of book 2, Zuko ALWAYS goes straight into fight mode. That boy has, through sheer stubborness instead of cunning, put himself in a position in which Azula won't achieve anything by threatening him, and would actually have more to gain by working with him instead of against him.

Not to mention: making a mutually benefitial deal with an enemy and thus bringing them over to your side is a smart move and thus something to be proud of. Offering your enemy deal, having them reject it, and then you crush them like you would have done if the deal had never been offered is still pretty badass and means that, while you didn't win anything new, you didn't lose something you already had either. But failing to control your subordinates? That's humiliating because it proves you're not as scary/powerful as you thought.

And, at last, we have a fact that the lead writer, Aaron Ehasz, made explicit when he was talking about a possible Azula redemption if Avatar had gotten a fourth season: Zuko would have been the one guiding Azula through it because he's the person she loves the most after Ozai.

OF COURSE he gets perks Mai and Ty Lee didn't get. They matter to her, but not as much as Zuko. They're her friends, but he's her family. Considering the seeds for that redemption arc (that we unfortunatelly never got to see be even properly planned in detail), it makes sense that the people she had a more unequal relationship with would be the ones to turn away from her for their own sake, leading to her hitting rock bottom, while the one that was more on her level would eventually be the one that would have stood by her side after it all - giving her a second chance in book 4 in a direct parallel to second chance she gave him in book 2.

#azula meta #fire siblings #fire siblings meta

[khepiari]

Luffy is so spoiled because of Ace too

My headcanon is that, Luffy being such an annoying gremlin is partly Ace’s fault as well. Yes, Sabo was there, and so were Makino and Mayor, Dadan and Gang and of course Garp in some brutal capacities.

I totally believe Luffy’s most formative years of learning happened when: that one year Shanks docked in Windmill Village and told him stories of his great many ocean adventures, and the rest of his life's education happened in the four years he spent running after Ace.

Ace is the elder sibling who had to step up to protect and care for Luffy because the adults in their lives were so incompetent. Especially after Sabo’s “death” he had to sober up. Between the three of them, Sabo was the one who was always kind, and patient and treated Luffy for the child he was. With him gone as the rational and calm one and after the Bear attack incident which almost killed Luffy, Ace had to step up, and actually grow up in a sense; he was no longer the lonely boy fending for himself, and picking fights just to channel his powerlessness and anger. Luffy's existence made him a better human and gave him a chance to be his own person. He became responsible as he had a weak crybaby and who for lack of a better word was — a fool with no sense of self-preservation. And because Ace had no point of reference, let alone a healthy sense of relationships, he raised Luffy like a feral wolf pup that he picked up the streets on a whim and spoiled him rotten to the point of dumb clingy.

On the other-hand, Ace was Luffy’s safe space. He would fight, cry, bite, get hurt, make mistakes, pull Ace into trouble and still follow Ace around with a stupid big smile because he knew Ace would protect and indulge him. Ace’s presence allowed Luffy to thrive and become the epitome of spoilt rotten. Because no matter what nonsense troubles he got into, he had Ace to look after him.

Yes, Luffy was always a selfish little shit who did what he wanted, but Ace enabled him to the point of getting away with anything as long as he was not intentionally harming anyone. I also think Ace wanted to make sure Luffy’s then innocent and happy world was not marred by people’s unkind words or actions, and he did a tremendous job— because Luffy listened to him, or at least tried to. Luffy was the little brother, to be precise, Luffy was his little brother, his only family, his chosen one who was a handful and his only ray of hope in this hateful world. But he knew who he was raising and how he was raising Luffy. Unlike Ace, who was burdened and bothered by the history of his lineage, made sure Luffy was not affected by any of his own dark thoughts or Garp's bullying. So his approach to raising Luffy was to both pamper him and prepare him with one goal: for Luffy to become independent and fearless.

After all a wolf is a wolf, he can be trained not domesticated.

#one piece #one piece headcanons #one piece meta #monkey d. luffy #portgas d ace #ace and luffy #one piece ace #fire fist ace #one piece luffy #mugiwara no luffy #asl brothers #siblings #elder brother #spoilt younger brother

[zuko-always-lies]

What was Azula's actual truth/lie ratio with Zuko?

Of the meaningful things she said to him, how many were lies?:

The Avatar State:

Tells Zuko that Ozai has forgiven him and wants him home-lie

Tells Zuko that Ozai thinks he's worthless-truth but Zuko refuses to believe it.

Crossroads of Destiny:

Tells Zuko that she thinks he can redeem himself and earn back his honor and Ozai's love-truth

Tells Zuko that he's redeemed himself in her eyes-truth

The Awakening:

Tells Zuko that he has nothing to worry about if the Avatar is actually dead like he claims-truth

The bedroom scene is interesting and open to interpretation, but it's difficult to classify anything she says there as a lie-truth

The Headband:

Tells Zuko it would be dangerous if he gets caught visiting Iroh-Truth

The Beach:

As far as I can tell, just about everything she says to Zuko in this episode is entirely truthful.

"The Avatar and the Firelord":

Tells Zuko the truth about Sozin and his life, so far as she knows.

"Nightmeres and Daydreams":

Tells Zuko the truth, that he'll be welcome at the big warmeeting.

Overall, we're at nine truthful statements and one lie. Azula seems to generally tell Zuko the truth.

#Azula #Azula meta #Zuko #fire siblings

[prodogg]

My thoughts about the whole Zuko & Azula plot in „the awakening“:

So, Azula took Zuko with her back to the fire nation where they received a heroes welcome, then Zuko anxiously waited to meet his father, then Azula comes and questions him about the possibility of Aang surviving, Zuko hesitated to answer and rather badly lied in her face upon which Azula gets suspicious, she then meets her dad and tells him Zuko killed Aang, to use him as fall guy should anything really be a problem with Aang‘s death. Now you see Zuko lied to Azula because of the water and also because he doesn’t trust Azula for good reasons, when looking back at beginning of the Book 2 and the whole „father wants you back“ chaos, where Azula lied to Zuko. I think this also shows the tragic aspect of their sibling relationship, they where so far from each other that they couldn’t even trust each other. Now there are some gaps left by the show which had to be filled by myself e.g when Azula met with her dad or if she reported to him back in Ba Sing Se. I saw some takes that required Azula to be some 4d chess mind reader that could look into the future and also takes away her confidence in her own abilities, like lightning bending, which is imo ridiculous. Anyways these were my thoughts about the whole Zuko and Azula tension in „the awakening“. Btw Zuko not closing the door is like one of the most annoying sibling moments to happen.

Also if you bad mouth one of the siblings I hope your sleeves touch the water and get wet when washing your hands. These two will also come after you:

*cough* Anyways here a sweet moment of the fire hazards together:

#azula #zuko #fire siblings #fire hazards #the awakening #book 3 #fire nation royal family #avatar the last airbender #atla #avatar #musings #observation #btw I‘m not blaming any sibling for what happened it was just a matter of unfortunate circumstances coming together #prince zuko #princess azula #pd talks #atla meta #azula meta #zuko meta #fire siblings meta

[proudfreakmetarusonniku]

thinking about azula and zuko makes me go insane because of how their definitions of love are completely fucked but in the exact opposite ways.

like, azula views love as using someone because she hung onto ozai using her to mean that he loved her as a person and not just a tool. she does genuinely care for her friends and her brother but her way of showing that is to treat them like pawns and play head games with them because that was her childhood! that was what she romanticised in her head as idyllic and happy to cope! love is inherently based in fear with her- for someone to love you, they have to fear the consequences of not loving you, of not doing what is demanded. and if someone does not fear you, they do not love you. if you cannot control someone, it’s better for them to be gone entirely. to love someone is to live in fear of them, and to show love to someone is to control and use them.

meanwhile, zuko sees love as something that must be earned. love is as much about utility to him as it is to azula, but in completely different ways, both bc he didn’t receive very much of that “love” at all and because he had more exposure to, like, a parent that actually gave a shit. he was older when ursa left and clung to her while azula admired and clung to ozai her whole life. he is aware love is about acceptance and compassion, but he views it as something transactional, that has to be earned. love is something given as a reward and taken away as punishment. people love you if you are useful to them, and they do not when you aren’t. love is something you have to be exceptional for, and if you are not exceptional, then you do not deserve anything at all.

and the other thing is- azula clings onto her definition of love to the point it destroys her, actively rejecting the idea that she’s wrong. when, in her psychotic break, she hallucinates ursa saying she loves her, she can’t accept it. she can’t accept the idea she can be loved without being feared, she cannot accept the idea that you can love someone and not enable them, and she has to violently reject that, because if she doesn’t, then why has she done any of this? but zuko actively starts the process of getting a healthier relationship with, well, relationships as the show goes on. he's able to accept love he feels isn’t earned and not lash out at that kindness. he's learnt to be able to show his admiration and bond with people that he’s internalised don’t deserve that. he's absolutely not perfect at it, but he’s able to acknowledge how he was treated wasn’t okay and that treating others the same isn’t.

just. these two man. the characters of all time the way they compare and contrast in their response to trauma is masterful. genuinely beautiful storytelling.

#atla meta #fire hazard siblings #azula #zuko #abuse tw