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glacierruler · 9 months

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Patton Sanders

Just felt like sharing my very nuanced opinions about a certain side. He's not my favorite, but I see a lot of myself in him. Which is both a good and bad thing. Be very warned this is heavily based off of how I act vs. how I've seen him act in canon, but I'm not going to bring up specific in canon moments. It's just how I remember him.

First things first, I adore Patton, but he's trying to juggle too much. He's trying to control his emotions, be the example Thomas is to lead by, be the 'dad' persona, and keep everything in check. Because of this, Patton is manipulative, but I don't think he means to be. I think, most of his manipulation, honestly comes from a place of, things need to be this way morally, if they aren't then Thomas might be a bad person, and if that's the case I've failed him. What am I supposed to do them? Which is a huge weight for any of the sides to carry. Feeling as if though they failed him because they couldn't lead him down the correct path. But what Patton doesn't seem to get, is that he's not the only one making those judgements on morals. All of the sides have their own views on what's a priority and what's moral or immoral. I think in the redux, Patton finally realized that(to an extent, idk if it's an in depth revelation yet), because he saw that he was hurting Thomas. But in seeing that, he and the others ended up hurting Roman, who had looked to Patton for the more moral side of things, because he had thought that only Patton could make the call on that. Because of the sway morality has on the princely side, who's supposed to be doing his best to always do the moral thing, Roman ended up getting really hurt because of this. Also Patton's silence in the end was telling for how his views had changed and he wasn't sure of his stance on anything or anyone anymore, including Roman. Everything was just flipped upside down and shattered for him. Because he had been basing his morality off of his feelings. The feelings he had been trying to juggle, repress, and hide from the others. Yes he had talked to the others about his feelings and repressing and hiding them. But that doesn't mean he's stopped, it's hard to stop a habit that's been so ingrained into your head that no one knew about until recently. And this repression is because he has been raised to view these negative emotions as 'bad' and 'evil' so how could the others like anything about him that isn't perfect and good? And in turn, if Thomas isn't perfect and good, then that's Patton's fault. And on top of that, he's trying to be the dad persona to all of us, someone who's happy and loving. Someone you can always look up to and rely on. He's trying to be all of that, do all of that, and he can't. He's putting too much on his plate, and hurting those closest to him because of that, and he's only just grasped that he's been hurting Thomas because of Janus.

And because of all this, I can't hate him. As someone who was raised in a Christian household, there's a lot of expectations to be perfect. Because I was always 'happy' at school, I was known as the happy friend, where nothing could go wrong with me. I didn't have emotions other than happy. Teachers always looked at me for my good behavior, which only made my need to be seen as perfect worse. Because if I wasn't perfect, who was I? And it ended up with me hurting others, and I never meant to, it just sort of happened. It took my whole world being shattered in middle school for me to start seeing that maybe that wasn't the way to live. That much pressure isn't good for anyone. And it's still a struggle for me, and I'm seeing Patton, someone who is so much like the old me, struggling to learn that for himself. And I can't help but try and cheer him on his journey. Yes he's messed up, and owes a lot of sides a lot of apologies, I am not denying that. But in order for him to try his best to not repeat the behavior, he has to figure out the best way to stop doing it. Which is hard, it's one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And I wish I had had someone who was going through the same thing as me when I was younger, to be able to help me pick up the pieces. So because of all this, I can't hate him. And I hope he's able to figure out how to love himself, flaws and all, so he can start loving others for their flaws too.

#patton sanders criticism #ts patton criticism #patton criticism #patton #patton sanders #sanders sides #ts patton #tss patton #glacier rambles

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let-roman-bite-someone · 7 months

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one teeny tiny criticism i have about sanders sides is

the way

roman's emotional moments

are always played off as bathos.

“bathos is a term used for sudden change in fiction from a serious or important subject to a ridiculous or very ordinary one.”

i've noticed this happens way too much in sanders sides, especially when it concerns roman. he has been showing signs of insecurity and feeling ignored for a while now. it was hinted at from the Am I Original episode. and it's very rarely taken seriously.

even in scenes where it's not played off as a joke, his feelings are very rarely given the narrative weight it deserves. the other sides are allowed to feel sad or angry, without it being turned into a "haha funny" moment or brushed off as unimportant. even when patton tries to play his feelings off as a joke in the Moving On episodes, the others made it clear that he shouldn't feel the need to do that.

the only episode roman is allowed to be really upset and sink down without forcing himself to act silly again is, as you may know, at the end of SvS Redux.

since this was the most recent official sanders sides video, i hope that his issues will actually be addressed in the future episodes. i know he's one of the comic relief characters, but if patton is allowed to feel depressed and emotional, then roman should be too. patton's whole arc in the Moving On duology was about expressing his feelings instead of bottling it up. the same moral should be applied to roman.

#everyone is talking about logan angst #roman deserves to express his feelings too #sanders sides #logan sanders #roman sanders #virgil sanders #remus sanders #thomas sanders #patton sanders #sasi #tss #janus sanders #sanders sides critical #kinda?#not really a huge problem for me honestly #considering how well-written everything else is

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beauty-and-passion · 5 months

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sooooo, latest video

Well... it seems like there is a video XD

Jokes aside, thanks anon for letting me know Mr. Sanders posted a video that was Sanders Sides related. Kudos for that <3

Then... I have some thoughts about this video. Thoughts I will divide into pros and cons, to make everything easier to explain.

If you don’t like long posts or reading criticism of any kind, please save yourself (and myself) some time and ignore this post. I won’t get offended, I promise.

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PROS

A real Aside

It looks like Thomas finally learned the difference between Asides and main episodes. It took him three years, but he finally realized that the Asides should be simple, no plot-related stuff. Good to see he finally got it.

(Still don’t understand why ATHD is a main episode, tho. It’s not plot-related and it’s very clearly more low-effort than FWSA and DWIT. Maybe Thomas didn’t want to leave it all by itself?)

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Some hopes for the characters

I was very relieved to see that the characters’ personalities are not completely butchered. There are a few things I will talk about in the cons section, but the overall vibe has stayed more or less the same. I’m especially relieved Virgil isn’t the fratboy he was in Thomas’ latest Instagram post, in which he talked all fratboy-esque and I almost expected him to bully me and steal my lunch.

The most in characters are Janus and Remus, which is nice to see too. Remus in particular, is still a chaotic rat man and I love him so much.

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Remus is my chaotic child

I personally think the best part of the whole video is Remus saying the others told him he could kill Bing Bong. I laughed so hard, I had to stop the video. That wonderful, chaotic rat man deserves to kill everything, as a treat <3

But actually, everything Remus says is great and that proves he’s the best, in this essay I will-

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CONS

A weird start

Let me recap my experience while watching the video for the first time.

So, the video starts and I’m welcomed by this guy with an orange shirt and blue hat, all happy and excited. For a split second, I think he’s Patton… but then, a Patton-esque guy with a sweater appears.

Okay, now I’m confused because I have no idea what’s happening here and don’t know who these guys are - I mean, if sweater guy is Patton, who is the orange guy? The orange side was introduced and I missed it? What’s happening here? Who are they? Are those the Inside Out characters as seen by Thomas? Will these guys meet their Sanders Sides “counterparts”?

But then another guy appears and he looks like Janus, so now I’m really lost because, seriously, who are these people? They call each other by name so they should be the Sides, but they also call the orange guy “Joy”, so who is this guy? Who are they? Are they the Inside Out characters cosplaying the Sides? Or vice-versa? What’s happening here?

I got my answer, only when Virgil appeared and clarified this was all a weird roleplay.

I have several questions:

Was it really necessary?

Why?

No, seriously, why? The Sides are the first to admit they aren’t an exact match to the Inside Out characters, so why doing this? Why flatten their multifaceted roles and personalities to do this? Because Mr. Sanders isn’t able to handle them?

Okay, fine, I know why Mr. Sanders wanted to do this weird roleplay and it could’ve been fun to see the Sides acting as the Inside Out characters… if only the Sides’ personalities stayed the same. But since their personalities are not the same anymore, all the viewers feel are confusion and a weird sense of “something’s wrong here”, which they can’t exactly pinpoint.

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Wrong aesthetics and confused personalities

In order to explain this point, I will bring two examples: Janus and Roman.

First of all, Janus. I know, he’s our beloved sassy queen and we all love him… but his aesthetic in this episode was completely wrong.

Janus is a character who wears layers upon layers of clothing. That’s the first thing you get, the first thing that characterizes him. But in this episode, he wears nothing but a gilet and a scarf. He shows with bare arms, bare shoulders, a deep V-neck and doesn't wear his gloves: for his standard, he’s basically naked.

You can tell me: “It was to match Disgust’s dress”. But since Remus put his own color on the costume, why couldn’t Janus put his own twist too? He’s not doing a perfect cosplay after all. So why not wear a sheer shirt underneath the gilet, to mimic the “nakedness” without showing his skin? Or a greenish/yellow shirt to match both his and Disgust’s aesthetic? I know Mr. Sanders loves to show his skin, but since he created a character whose aesthetic is to not show skin, why “strip” him just to show some more skin? Did Mr. Sanders forgot this aspect of Janus’ character?

But if Janus had at least his face and personality to remind us who he is, Roman had nothing. Seriously, look me in the eye and tell me that, when you saw that guy in orange, you immediately thought: “Ah yes, here is Roman”. There was no way to recognize him, because he had nothing of Roman.

First of all, not a single drop of red anywhere. And I know, roleplay and whatever… but Mr. Sanders is a theater man. He knows the importance of colors. He created seven characters by associating a color to each of them. And yet, Roman appeared without a drop of red, while Remus had no problem turning Fear’s sweater into green.

That doesn't mean Roman had to turn full red, but he could wear a red accessory at least: a bracelet, a necklace, a pin on his hat, whatever. Logan’s tie was blue after all. Or wasn’t Roman allowed to put a twist on his cosplay? This weird roleplay session gives me more questions than answers :/

Second (and most important), Roman’s personality was nowhere to be found. This guy is a more obnoxious, forced version of Roman. When he talked, I didn’t see a person talking: I saw Mr. Sanders reading a script. Or better, screaming a script. Seriously, why was he so loud? Why was he screaming this much, during the roleplay session? I almost got a headache and I don’t get headaches so easily. Seriously, if I needed to hear him louder, I could’ve turned up the volume of my computer, no need to scream this much.

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The makeup and the importance of details

The dark sides’ makeup has been butchered.

Remus’ eyeshadow used to be of a deep dark black/blue/purple. So why is it so light? Because of the roleplay? But it’s still light after the roleplay. What happened, did Thomas finish the eyeshadow? It’s not too expensive, can’t he buy some more?

Same goes for Virgil: his eyeshadow is basically non-existent. And that’s even weirder, considering that in the Christmas episode, he said he wanted darker makeup to match the darkness of his soul. Does that mean his soul isn’t dark anymore?

And then, Janus. My poor, beloved Janus. His makeup used to be impressive, with scales of a deep green/yellow/brown hue: now they look more like a weird, yellow-y rash, with a thin black line crossing them (probably made with an eye pencil?).

I know Thomas doesn’t have the same makeup artist, but experts exist. And if the one he has isn’t doing their job well, then I’m sorry, but he should hire another one. That’s not being mean, that’s being real.

And before any of you says: “That’s just a detail, you’re being nitpicky”... sure, you can see it like that. But let’s say someone gives you a cake and when you see it, there are missing decorations, the fondant doesn’t fully cover the cake and the phrase “Happy birthday” is wonky. And when you eat it, it has a weird aftertaste too. Sure, it was a gift, but would you think “That was the best ever!” or would you think “Thanks, but you could’ve spent a little more time making it better”?

Heck, you can apply the same concept with this post too! If I posted something with incorrect grammar and misspelled words, would you be happy? Or would you think “man, you could’ve spent a couple more minutes to correct it”?

Skipping details doesn’t make me think you care about your work: it makes me think that either you’re lazy or don’t really care. And if you’re okay with something with missing details, good for you. But from someone with a certain degree of expertise/professionalism like Mr. Sanders, I expect something professional too.

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Subtle vs thrown in your face

I enjoy the “Janus being a wine mom” thing: it’s funny, it makes me smile, poor boy dealing with the little shits he has around, please give him wine.

But you know what’s really funny about this? That it’s subtle. It happens once in a while. It’s not thrown in the face. And it’s not thrown in the face like that, with Sides luring Janus with wine, almost as if he’s an alcoholic and you can use wine to make him do anything.

Also because the whole “Janus loves wine” thing doesn’t work too well with the functions he embodies. I mean, this guy is responsible for lies. Do you really think lies and alcohol work well together? You need to be extremely lucid and focused to be a good liar. And I don’t think I have to explain to you why alcohol and self-preservation don’t work well together either.

So seeing him with a glass once in a while is funny, but seeing him being all like “you promised me wine” as if wine is his drug… that’s not funny.

Speaking of things that are funny when not thrown in the face, let’s talk about “falsehood” too.

Just like the wine, falsehood was funny when it came once in a while. It wasn’t a switch you could press and bam, Logan says “Falsehood!”. It was a momentarily outburst because Logan’s main reaction isn’t to yell: Logan’s main reaction is to explain things by using cold logic. Because that’s who he is: logic.

So, when I see him dropping a “falsehood” like this, I don’t enjoy it. I feel it old and stale. And it saddens me too, because it looks like Thomas is using the easiest bait to get his fans’ attention. A bit like a bunch of dangling keys: see? Your favorite character says his catchphrase! Now laugh!

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Apollo gave me the gift of prophecy (or maybe it was just too obvious this would happen)

Right after Roman stops screaming, Virgil starts screaming. And he does it in the most out-of-character way, for the most out-of-character reason.

Since the Q&A episode from season one, Virgil was the first one to tell Thomas that Anxiety looks different for anyone and that he specifically chose the dark persona to keep “everyone’s guard up”.

So why is he complaining so much about a movie representation of Anxiety now? And why should everyone remind him that hey, Anxiety looks different for everyone? He should already know that. He was the first to tell that.

Do you know what this is? No, not a pathetic excuse to talk about a trending topic (i.e. Inside Out). It’s proof I was fucking right and of course I was, because I experienced it too.

What did I say in my old post about the problem with this series? That SaSi doesn’t have an outline. And what happens when you don’t have an outline and, instead of focusing on that project/writing an outline, you do 20 other different things instead? That more time will pass. And the more time will pass, the more you will forget things you already talked about.

Like, you know, a topic from season 1 that was clarified, over and done by the same character who now forgot it.

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The golden goose will never die

Call me a conspiracy theorist or just an old hag with a heart of stone. But I really would like to know the real reason why, deep down, Thomas made this video.

I doubt it was because he missed the Sides and wanted to do something with them. He doesn’t miss them the slightest, it’s quite clear. He doesn’t even care enough to remember what their personalities are supposed to be, how can he "miss" them?

But oh look, there was new merch to advertise. And Inside Out is a trending topic and the fandom knows about the association between SaSi and the movie. So if Mr. Sanders makes the right video at the right time, he can get a lot of views with minimal effort.

But he should advertise a shirt with all Sides in, so he can’t just make a video about Virgil reacting to a trailer: he needs all of the Sides to be there. So, let’s rush a video with the first idea that popped into his mind: that Virgil doesn’t like the Inside Out take on Anxiety.

Maybe that’s not what truly happened in his mind and behind the scenes. Maybe Mr. Sanders really just wanted to make a video with the Sides and I’m a cynical, heartless person. Personally, I would be way happier to know I was wrong and there weren’t ulterior motives behind this video.

But without any actual proof, I won’t believe this video was made just for passion. Passion doesn’t make you skip details. Passion doesn’t make you put on a sloppy video, without taking two more minutes to check if your characters are IC or the topic you want to talk about makes sense.

Believe me, I’m very sad to say this. I don’t want to think all of this. I always try to be optimistic and think good of people. But if this is what I get, how can I believe this video was made with good intentions and no ulterior motives? Especially since it’s coming from a guy who can be accurate, detail-oriented, and very subtle while acting? He did all of this in the past: now it looks like he forgot everything.

If you want to still watch this Aside, do it. If you enjoy it, even better. For me, that was just a tiny waste of time and it left me nothing except a momentary smile. At the end of the day, I don’t even care enough to watch it twice. And for me, that's a failure, coming from a series I used to watch on repeat.

#sanders sides #ask #ts criticism #I guess #thomas sanders #roman sanders #remus sanders #virgil sanders #patton sanders #janus sanders #logan sanders #at this point I'm just sad

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dustylogicalityrat · 2 months

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hello, hello! I have sort of an idea/rant/question.

(about the whole Patton casting the "Dark Sides" out thing.)

so, like, did he?

because obviously, it'd make sense if Thomas' Morality disapproved of Deceit and Dark Creativity, but,,,

in Can Lying Be Good?, it's explained that Janus kept everyone's "mouths shut" about himself and Remus.

and in Dealing With Intrusive Thoughts, Remus sings about how Janus basically sent him off to fuck with everyone.

and Patton was VERY clearly offset by Remus' appearance. (i mean, come on.)

but in Can Lying Be Good?, the very episode that introduced the concept of the "Dark Sides", Patton seems super unaware of what's going on. and when he sees Janus (who's in his spot), he really isn't surprised to see him at all. just sorta oblivious but confused? but i'm guessing Patton understood that it was Deceit, because when Thomas worried about Janus calling him a good person, Patton realized that meant Janus tried telling him that he wasn't.

still, though, Patton didn't really hate that Janus kept appearing. he was just always the one to be challenged. and he definitely aimed that anger from his own actions at himself. (i mean, it led to him turning into a buff video game frog, so..)

and if Patton was the one to have hidden the "Dark Sides", how?

and how come Virgil was able to appear?

i dunno, something about Janus controlling when the Sides can talk about them sorta throws a wrench into this.

#please please add on to this if you have any thoughts!#open to all criticism!#i'm just a tad confused #but that's just the norm #sanders sides #patton sanders #ts patton #janus sanders #ts janus #remus sanders #ts remus #virgil sanders #ts virgil #thomas sanders #c!thomas

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mysterioussart · 1 year

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Hands down finally done thankfully!

#sander sides #sander sides fanart #art #virgil sanders #janus sanders #fanart #roman sanders #logan sanders #patton sanders #remus sanders #remy sanders #remy sleep #critic sanders #emile picani #mystsart

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whereisstevethestove · 5 months

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guys i know it takes a hella long time to make videos- im literally a content creator too- im just pointing out that you don’t have to suck thomas’ corporate dick when people complain about a finale that 3+ years too late + consistently lying about his progress

he’s a thirty three year old man, he doesn’t need you defending him on tumblr dot com. if you have a problem with what im saying just block my account and move on with your life.

#sanders sides #not countdown #thomas sanders #sanders sides critical #ts criticism #ts critical #virgil sanders #logan sanders #roman sanders #patton sanders #if you don’t want to see crit block me cause I for sure am blocking you

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loganslowdown4 · 1 year

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You guys know what this means?

Not only The Sides with earrings

Roman of Reston too

Picani

Sleep

The Critic guy

THEY ALL GET EARRINGS BABYYYYY WOOOOOO

#thomas sanders #EARRINGS AAAHHH #sanders sides #Roman sanders #Picani #sleep sanders #logan sanders #patton sanders #janus sanders #remus sanders #virgil sanders #ts sleep #ts critic

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davidsolomonprotectionsquad · 4 months

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i'm sorry about my actions last night. it's just hard to see how far thomas has gone downhill since it has such an impact on my life. I'm not just another disappointed fan. I don't talk about this on my blog often but i actually named my child after the sanders sides- my little patton logan ross. those names are forever tied to thomas and what he did for me in 2017-19. he's the only reason i was mentally healthy enough to have that baby. but now that he's ruined his own series it makes me so depressed. the characters are so ooc, i wouldn't have named my KID after this terrible writing. Thomas has let me down and i don't think i can ever forgive him.

#ts critical #tss critical #ts crit #tss crit #thomas sanders #sanders sides #patton sanders #logan sanders #disapointed #im covering up my thomas sanders tattoo #ill also hasve to figure out what to do about my babys tattoo #i was so excited because tattooing them when theyre small makes a really cool effect when they grow u #google it. baby tattoos. its a thing

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theycallmeaspen · 7 months

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Thomas, I love you, but please give us some actual content and not ads

#sanders sides #thomas sanders #logan sanders #remus sanders #roman sanders #virgil sanders #patton sanders #janus sanders #ts criticism

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myosotis-prince · 1 year

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im rewatching sanders sides and seeing virgil(albeit not completely intentionally) make patton upset makes me want to claw my eyes out

also the fandom is way too harsh on pat and im furious about how he's made out to be the worst side always

#HES MY SECOND FAVORITE #comfort character :(#sweet boy...#patton sanders #patton angst #virgil sanders #sanders sides #tss #giving a goat #tss critical

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prodigal-explorer · 4 months

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someone needs to tell basil from omori and patton from sanders sides this.

#sanders sides #thomas sanders #tss #patton sanders #patton criticism #omori #omori basil #omori basil criticism

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glacierruler · 6 months

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Patton Sanders

So, this is my reblog of a post that @cutebisexualmess reblogged and put tags on. And now I must go on a very very long ramble about Patton Sanders and especially his role in Sanders Sides.

I want to be very clear, that this is biased because I relate to him.

I'm not providing clear proof or evidence, because that would require me to watch the whole series again, and I will forget to write this.

CWs include: manipulation and talks of manipulation, talking about morality and the more muddy or unclear bits in it, self destructive habits, self deprecation, depression, and perfectionism

I'm going to be writing this and trying to update the Content Warnings, but I can't promise that I'll get them all.

With that done, if you're able to and would like to read, press read more!

Okay, so first we've got to remember that Patton isn't just Thomas's morality, but he's also Thomas's emotions. Which already muddies a lot of things up right out of the gate.

Morality, while having a kind of unclear dictionary definition, basically boils down to a person's sense of what's right and what's wrong.

Where as, emotions are how you feel about a situation.

I'll (try to remember to) explore both of those topics a bit deeper later on in the post.

So all this to say, that Patton isn't just in charge of what Thomas believes to be right and wrong, but also his feelings on the matter. Which makes him more subjective instead of objective on what's going on. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing in all situations. However, it can be detrimental because, since Patton is Thomas's morality, he has this belief that his views are always morally correct. Which is simply not factual. Morality can be skewed, morality is something that's learned. For most people, when they believe something is morally right or morally wrong, no matter if it is or not, it can be near impossible to convince them otherwise. And when people do things that go against their morals, they tend to feel horrible about it. This is one of the reasons that I believe if Thomas had gone to the callback instead of the wedding, he would've felt horrible there as well.

I'm not going to say I'm unbiased about the outcome of the debate between the callback and wedding, and imo there were better ways to go about figuring out which one to go to. But, what I feel like a lot of people look over when saying Thomas would have been happier going to the callback, is that he probably wouldn't have. Because Patton would feel guilty about missing out on a very important event in some of Thomas's closest friends' lives. Which would have made Thomas feel guilty, which makes it even less likely that Thomas would have been able to perform well, or as well as he would've liked. And as someone who has done acting before(albeit not really outside of the church I used to go to), your emotions going into trying to get a part are extremely important to how well you're going to be able to play the part. So there is a very big chance that if Thomas had gone to the callback instead of the wedding, he wouldn't have gotten the part and would feel even worse about a day where he already feels horrible. (Nevermind the fact that it could very easily spiral into thoughts of 'I went to the callback instead of my best friends' wedding, for no reason. Not only am I a horrible friend, but I suck at acting too.'[For clarification, this is not even close to what I think of Thomas, this is an example of the thoughts that could spiral from if Thomas had gone to the callback and not gotten the part.])

However, as everyone who has watched past the Wedding Redux video would know, Thomas went to the wedding and felt horrible about that. Some of you might understandably be wondering why, as he did what Patton - Thomas's morality- thought was the correct choice. This is because Thomas seemed to want to go to the callback as much if not more than the wedding. Which is where his emotions, which is also Patton, comes into play. Patton now feels guilty and horrible because Thomas wants to go to the callback, and Thomas wants that acting part.

Like, don't get me wrong, Patton absolutely believes going to the wedding was the correct choice, but Thomas had been excited to be fulfilling his dreams of being an actor. And so the excitement of his friends getting married was dampened by the fact that he missed out on what could've been a dream job. And not only that, but now because Thomas is bummed about missing this opportunity, Patton feels guilty about the disappointment, because his friends are getting married and he should be happy and even excited about it. But he isn't. And so, while morally Thomas did the right thing(according to Patton), because he isn't happy about what's happened, that essentially traps Patton in this circle of guilt. Guilt for the choice that Thomas made not making Thomas happy; and guilt for being at Lee and Mary-Lee's wedding to celebrate and not being ecstatic for them. And then there was what happened when Thomas got home and started processing everything.

This has happened before in, I think, at least one previous episode, where Patton has doubled down on his stance. On him being right, because he is Thomas's morality, he knows wrong from right. It. Is. His. Job. So when something(or someone) questions what Patton knows has to be morally correct, he has to shoot it down(I will hopefully remember to come back to this) because if he's wrong, then Thomas is wrong, and if Thomas is wrong, doesn't that make him a bad person? And in that respect, wouldn't that make Patton a bad side? And if he's a bad side, what then?

So Patton does his best to be perfect and correct and right all the time, and in turn he tries to kind of force the other 'light' sides in the same direction, because they need to be perfect. They need to be perfect for Thomas to be perfect. Which, imo, affects Roman the most. Because Roman is Thomas's ego, his creativity, his hopes and dreams, and his passion. With both Patton and Roman needing Thomas to be perfect and the best, it leaves almost no room for failure, which heightens Thomas's anxiety, and makes it less likely that he'll be successful with being logical about his reasoning. (I don't know too much about Remus's function to even semi-accurately allude to how this could be effecting him, and we will be talking about Janus soon.)

To make what was probably going to be a really long ramble shorter. Patton is urging Thomas to do the right thing, because he's morality and he has to be right about what is morally correct. And Roman, is more likely to listen to everything that Patton says, because he's the ego, and needs more positive attention. Being morally correct means more positive attention and that is a good thing. (I am not saying that Roman does or doesn't actually care about doing the right thing, I am saying that he is NOT morality so it is NOT nearly as important to him as positive attention. It is why Janus buttering him up during the trials was discombobulating him so much. And also probably one of the reasons why he started being more hostile to the side after, he did not like the fact that Janus knew how to use his ego against him.) And, I think Patton sort of knows this. Fair warning, this part might be more subjective than most of this post. I think that Patton knows enough to realize that Roman is more likely to agree with him when Roman gains positive attention(when the ego is being fed). And so, he frames things with Roman as though Thomas would be a bad friend for not doing {insert example here}, which Patton does believe. But it's also a blow to Roman at the same time. I don't think Patton realizes the extent of the damage it does to Roman(and in turn Thomas). In my opinion Patton does this because he believes it himself, that Thomas is a bad friend if he doesn't help out(or go to their wedding), and he realizes Roman is more likely to agree with him when he points things like that out. And Roman, as the ego, will not want to openly admit to being hurt by it(iirc the only times he ever tries to vent out his hurt and frustrations are when he can write it off as jokes or make it so his voice is barely heard, and he tends to be vague about it). And it does not help anyone that when Thomas chooses what Patton thinks is morally correct, Roman tends to get positive attention.

But that's unhealthy and can only last so long before everything falls apart.

For the record, I still don't believe that Patton knows that he's actively harming Roman.

Now, we're getting to the aftermath of the wedding(I know I said we were doing that quite a few paragraphs ago, but I realized that I wasn't quite there yet, sorry).

After the wedding, both Patton and Roman are trying to figure out what went wrong. Why couldn't they just be happy for their friend? What went wrong?

So Janus decides to jump in and start explaining to Patton why everything went wrong(in the disguise of Logan until he couldn't anymore). And he tries to go into the more grey areas of morality as a whole, and Patton does not like this. Because Patton believes, and has been raised to believe, that you always do the morally correct thing and that you have to do it for the right reasons. And I can not reiterate this enough, Patton is Thomas's morality and emotions.

So Patton and Janus start arguing. And Roman takes Patton's side, for multiple reasons, but one of them is the fact that one of the biggest blows to the ego tends to be when you are wrong about something you were sure you were right about. Yes, Roman also defended Patton because they are friends, but every decision they make is made by their own functions and their control in what Thomas does, you cannot separate them from their functions when talking about their actions because their actions are shaped by their functions. Throughout this argument things are chaotic and hectic and hard to keep up with. But then Patton turns into a frog and accidentally hurts Thomas while trying to make his point. Because of this, he realizes that Janus is correct in what he's saying. That Thomas needs a fucking break, and he can't do everything right all the time, and that morality isn't quite as simple as he thinks it is. However, the fact that Patton was wrong, kind of shatters Roman, because Roman needed him to be right. Or else what was it all for.

And I want to be very clear here, Patton is reeling from everything that's happened too. He understands that morality isn't quite as easy as crossing a line into being good or bad. I don't think he thought it was quite as simple as I'm saying, I'm just not sure how else to put it. Anyways, Patton while realizing he wasn't right this time, and he might not have been right last time, is too preoccupied with what this new information means for him. And no one is paying any real attention to Roman.

Janus, in order to get everyone present to trust him, tells them his name(iirc, and this detail I'm more iffy on than most, I believe Roman prompted this). Roman, now not just hurting from throwing hopes and dreams down the drain for the wedding but also probably about to sport the biggest bruise to his ego in a long while if not Thomas's life, makes fun of it. And Janus retaliates, poking at his deepest insecurity, comparing him to his twin - Remus. Neither Patton nor Thomas say anything, because in that moment Patton and to an extant Thomas are making that comparison. And then Roman says something about being their hero(I can't remember the exact words, I'm sorry, they're important, I know they're important, I just can't remember). Neither Patton or Thomas respond. And, imo, it's because they no longer know. They don't know. One other thing none of them know, is how much that silence broke Roman.

So, in conclusion. Patton is NOT an innocent little bean who can do no wrong. However he is also NOT unsympathetic.

Again, all of this is my opinions, and why I think this is what's going on. I think it'd be more convincing and have more and even better solid evidence if I had recently rewatched Sanders Sides. But I haven't.

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golden-songbird · 1 year

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i strongly believe that patton sanders, fans of patton sanders, and the general attitude towards patton sanders says A LOT about modern fandom “culture” and how toxic and uncreative it is becoming.

just to preface this post is absolutely no hate to thomas sanders. he’s an amazing creator and he can’t control how his fans interpret his work. moving right along!

in many fandoms, there are archetypes (typical roles that characters in media play), and there is nothing wrong with an archetype until the fandom prioritizes archetypes over characterization. a surface level example would be something like “prince charming from cinderella is a kind, sensitive man who doesn’t have the most common sense, but he’s got a big heart and a lot of love to share. but instead of creating fan work or headcanons or “kinning” that character with/because of those traits, the fandom just sees him as the one who saves cinderella. the savior. and that’s it.”

the big, number one archetype that modern fandoms have developed is “the uwu, smol, soft bean who is so innocent and can do no wrong.” an amplified and much more annoying version of the professional term “ingenue”. an ingenue (or ingenu) is a character in media who is very young and innocent, and tends to make big mistakes as a result of their youth and innocence. romeo and juliet are ingénus. anne shirley cuthburt is an ingénue. i like to argue that roman sanders is an ingenu but that’s a story for another time.

the difference between the “smol soft bean” and the ingenue is that it is clearly established in media that the ingenues are in the wrong, and despite their youth and innocence, their mistakes are present, front and center, and it is obvious to all that they’re in the wrong. of course, it isn’t always black and white. ingenues have been coerced by outside forces, or they’ve had turbulent pasts that have caused them to not know any better, but it is generally understood that these things are explanations. not excuses.

when fans talk about their “smol soft beans”, there is generally an attitude of superiority when it comes to them. “no no, that’s my wittle cinnamon role, they could never be a bully/abuser! they’re so clearly innocent and sweet!” when that character has indeed said and done awful things to others repeatedly. “my smol soft bean is always the victim and everyone else is always mean to them!” when that character clearly is not always the victim and is being mistreated by other characters as a form of retaliation or breach of trust. oftentimes, the modern fandom’s perception of a character overrides the actual actions of the character in the canon and i will explain why that’s problematic in the next paragraph.

this worlds generation has a huge, giant, collective victim complex. but it’s only natural. that’s just what happens when people go on the internet and see all of these “smol soft beans” being protected and adored, and their mistakes are being ignored. everybody wants that. deep down, everybody wants their mistakes to be erased, and for only the very best parts of them to be on display at all times. so they infantilize themselves, trying to make themselves act and look sweet and innocent and cute, so that way, they can never admit to being wrong. it’s a very imitatable behavior. one that people can emulate easily. and people do.

by now, you all may be like “but ez, what does this have to do with patton?” well, everything. patton is generally seen as the “smol soft bean” archetype in the sanders sides fandom, even though he has done an array of terrible things. here are just a few:

- he regularly ignores and teases logan, endlessly taunting the one singular vocabulary mistake logan made because he thinks it’s funny to make logan look stupid when intelligence is his entire livelihood.

- he guilt trips roman relentlessly and coerced him into making a huge mistake (choosing the wedding), and then when they all faced the consequences of roman’s mistake, patton distanced himself from it, and pretended like it was all roman’s fault that it even happened.

- he was one of remus’ biggest haters, insisting constantly on pressing him down and pretending he doesn’t exist. while all the sides essentially were remus haters (except eventually logan), patton was clearly the most prominent one.

- he infantilized virgil, even when virgil told him he was uncomfortable. he gave a false apology that he didn’t actually act upon, and he made virgil feel small.

again, that’s only a few, but those are some of the biggest ones. oftentimes, the fandom just IGNORES that these things ever happened, or gloss over them, even though they’re some of the most important lessons in the entire sanders sides storyline. people refuse to acknowledge such important truths because they want patton to be a “smol soft bean who does no wrong and is so innocent”.

and patton kinnies tend to take it a whole new level because they’re seeing this character that is being infantilized and reduced to nothing but the sweetest little gumdrop and deciding “i want to be that.” so they say that they kin patton without accepting the mistakes he’s made, or his controlling and abusive tendencies. they want to distance themselves from his mistakes, but capitalize on his innocence, which is an unhealthy way to look at things.

everyone makes mistakes. everyone is in the wrong. nobody is perfectly innocent.

and that’s why i hate patton sanders, the fandom’s attitude towards patton sanders, and pretty much all patton kinnies (unless they’re open about the completeness of pattons character).

please don’t dox me. thanks.

#sanders sides #patton stans plz don’t dox me #patton sanders #patton hate page #sanders sides commentary #sanders sides fandom #fandom critique #fandom critical #fandom criticism

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logically-asexual · 1 year

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okay here’s my hot take

there should be three kinds of Sanders Sides episodes

1. what asides should have been

(this category is actually optional but became necessary as a means to fill in the time between other episodes.)

these kinds of videos are under 10 minutes long (best if around 5 min) and they are just one or at most two sides talking about a random topic with almost no deep emotional significance for Thomas. could happen anywhere in the timeline of the show because they have zero relevance to the plot. Thomas comes out of them having learned basically nothing. ads could fit here too (or should strive to fit in this category)

this episodes should be exclusively fillers and could come whenever there’s a long wait or the plot could use a break.

examples: Dad’s Big Game Day Tips, Becoming a Cartoon, Dark Side of Disney.

2. normal episodes

most of the episodes in the show, specially the first season ones. these episodes involve Thomas having a problem and choosing to call his sides to reflect on it and how to solve it. each side gives his opinion, they debate and argue, and at the end they come to an agreement and/or solution. Thomas learns something new about himself or makes a decision to change some minor aspect of his lifestyle. there can be hints to an overarching plot but the episode is self contained. ideally involve just Thomas talking to the Sides in his living room, can involve musical numbers and visual effects but it should be limited so the episode doesn’t get too long (i wanna say… under 20-25 minutes?)

these should be the great majority of the episodes, the main part of the series.

examples: everything between Alone on V-Day and Making some Changes, Fitting In, Embarrassing Phases, Are there Healthy Distractions.

3. life changing episodes

these are episodes that may begin with a problem Thomas has in his life, but the discussion soon shifts to an exploration of Thomas’ character and the relationship with his Sides and the one of his Sides with each other. Thomas has to look back on his past and his social context to understand why he’s thinking the way he is and has to dig deep into the arguments of each Side to understand each one of them and their interactions better. they may even argue about bigger, generalized issues and topics about society and not only Thomas. the resolution of the episode might not be totally conclusive, because of the magnitude of the topic, but Thomas comes out of this episode with some aspect of himself or his life changed permanently.

these episodes should not come often, with maybe at least 4 normal episodes in-between, except when it’s a two-parter.

examples: Accepting Anxiety, Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts, Flirting with Social Anxiety (yes. i know this one is officially an Asides, but i stand firm), SvS parts 1 and 2.

this is how i ideally would structure the Series. but i don’t think this is how they’re doing it. in my personal opinion, lately we’ve had too many of the last kind of episode, the ads may try to lean into the second kind of episode instead of the first, and the episodes classified as Asides aren’t consistent with the team’s original idea nor the expectations the fans had for them.

so yeah. that’s my hot take. thanks for reading.

#adding the poll at the end because i can and i love polls sorry #logan sanders #sanders sides #virgil sanders #patton sanders #janus sanders #remus sanders #thomas sanders #not sure but i’ll tag it just to be safe i guess #ts criticism #ts

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