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the-obnoxious-sibling · 5 months

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Hello,

I found your takes very interesting and I would love to discuss them a big more.

Your analysis of the Shanksbuggy break up is really great based on what we have (Buggy pov of what happened) but I also want to add that they are teenagers that just saw one of the most important person in their eyes died. Obviously they're not in the best position to have a very clear discussion about future and it's even worse if you add to the mix the tendency of Buggy to jump to conclusion and the love of mystery of Shanks. And I also think in a way it a discussion about grief and mourning and how different people have different reaction to it.

I also have some hypothesis about why they changed their opinion about separating each other because they don't have the same dream.

- The first one is what happened quickly after their discussion: Buggy eating the devil fruit. The fact this incident is what Buggy uses as an excuse to explain his hatred of Shanks is obviously now a lie to himself but there is probably a part of true in that this incident changed their relationship and makes them more codependent due to Buggy's inability to swim while living on a boat. There is also probably a discussion to have with the quite weird relationship of Roger's crew and devil fruit (The fact that no one except Buggy have one).

- The second one is the circonstances of them leaving the crew. When discussing their plan, they speak about Leaving the crew and building something in a way which is very similar to a child leaving their parents house to go study or work. It's an active decision. (Even if Buggy's action at the time is closer to a teenager running away than a future adult 😅). But that's not what happened in the end, their departure from the ship is a decision which is forced on them and with quite a traumatic end. It willmakes sense then that they stick to each other.

- The third hypothesis is that they become teenagers and they went from best friends to lovers.

(Sorry I did end up writing a lot) 😅

hello! don't apologize for writing a lot, i am a big fan of writing a lot myself! …as you’ll see in this post. >>;

and you're very right, these are good points to bring up that i haven’t really gotten into before. grief, and the ways their circumstances changed (or might have changed—as you’ll see, i’m not totally convinced about one of your hypotheticals) after that first conversation. let's get into it!

grief.

the context for their fight, and the grief they must be feeling in that moment, is definitely worth taking into consideration. there's something of a truism that you shouldn't make big decisions in the first six months to a year after suffering the loss of a loved one, because during that early mourning period you simply aren't thinking clearly. you may make hasty, impulsive decisions that you'll regret later, or the additional stress of attempting to take action while emotionally burdened will cause things to go wrong. it's better, we tend to agree, to wait.

if buggy is asking shanks to go to laugh tale right now, that’s a textbook hasty decision, and one likely to go poorly if acted on. (i’ve stated my opinion to the contrary in tags before, but that is just my opinion.) and buggy’s rejection of shanks’ offer also seems impulsively made! a knee-jerk reaction to getting an unexpected response, that could also be the influence of grief though buggy is pretty impulsive in general so who knows.

in contrast, shanks deciding not to go to laugh tale ‘for now’ can be seen as recognition that it would be better, smarter, to wait.

at this point, i’d like to point out that we don’t know what life was like for buggy and shanks between dropping oden off at wano and this conversation in roguetown. as far as we know, nothing of significance happened after the roger pirates disbanded—emphasis on as far as we know. we don’t even know if buggy and shanks spent those months together, or if they met by chance at roger’s execution!

all that to say: we don’t know what the status quo for these two looks like in this moment. is shanks asking buggy to come with him asking him to stay together, to continue as they have been, or is this yet another impulsive decision? are they both trying to take action too quickly?

i think this was definitely a bad time to be discussing these topics—but there might not have been another time available to them. we know there were a lot of pirates in roguetown that day—and a lot of marines, too. there may have been an urgency to this moment that we can’t appreciate right now, with the information we have.

changing circumstances 1: the chop-chop fruit.

i used to think it was curious that buggy was the only devil fruit user on the roger pirate crew, until i remembered what other crews around at the time were like. specifically:

whitebeard, himself a devil fruit user, is all about embracing weird outcast types and bringing them into his crew (and his family). so to people who were already devil fruit users, who consider becoming pirates because they’ve been shunned and cast out of their home and society, whitebeard’s gotta be the go-to guy. he already knows what it’s like! he must have extra measures in place to keep his sons from falling overboard! you’ll be safe with him!

kaidou, also a devil fruit user, loves getting devil fruit users in his crew. he’s not as friendly or paternal a captain, but if you aren’t interested in that energy—if you got yourself a devil fruit for power’s sake but found the downsides made it hard to be on your own—he’s a good option.

basically, i think most people who went into piracy in those days already in possession of devil fruit powers found themselves drawn to captains who had one too—understandably so, in my opinion. a ship where no one has a devil fruit, would they know how to look out for you? for all you know, they’re one of those superstitious crews who take the “ocean’s curse” line seriously! better to stick with someone you know has devil fruit experience.

buggy’s one of the uncommon few to eat a devil fruit after becoming a pirate. that whole crew was offered the opportunity to eat the thing, and he was the only one who dared—because the rest knew that it was a risky move at best, especially with an unknown fruit. the power you get might not be worth the cost, especially for someone who makes their living on the sea.

we forget this, i think because there’s so many devil fruit users in one piece, but devil fruits are hard to come by! we’re seeing a small sliver of the population who managed to get their hands on one and then managed to survive the downsides. that the roger pirates ever found one was a rare thing. they didn’t even know for sure if it was real when buggy ate it!

all this to say, i don’t know that i believe the chop-chop fruit changes much about the shanks-buggy dynamic, except in the “he betrayed me!!” angle it brings to buggy’s future grudge against him. (not that i think this is what buggy considers to be shanks’ real betrayal. it’s just the one he can talk about without revealing his roger pirate history.) so buggy can’t swim anymore! so what?! neither can whitebeard! shanks, you better not look down on me for this!! etc, etc.

now, how much of that would just be talk from buggy? (i.e., claiming ‘you better not look down on me, i don’t need your help’ but clinging to shanks’ arm the second a wave looks like it might crash over the deck?) probably a fair amount! but i don’t think that’s a significant change in behavior from buggy, his words and actions often disagree.

changing circumstances 2: roger pirates disbanded.

it is one thing to boldly claim as a child that you’re going to be a great pirate captain, and quite another to actually do it. it probably helps to spend years on a great pirate captain’s ship, to see how he does it, to eventually start to wonder to yourself, would i do it that way, if it were me in charge? but even then, when you’ve been quietly thinking about it, maybe announcing your intentions a few times, setting aside the most important things to take with you on the day when you finally leave, on the day when you’ll finally feel ready to leave—

all that is very different from being told that everyone is leaving. that you don’t have a choice about when to go. that there will be nowhere and no one to return to if it turns out you weren’t ready to be on your own after all.

as i mentioned earlier, we don’t know what the time after the roger pirates disbanded was like for shanks and buggy. were they relying on the kindness of near-strangers, people who half-remembered them as members of roger’s crew from their first trip through the GL? were they lucky enough to be the last ones let go, at a trusted island in that early part of paradise? did shanks have enough understanding of conqueror’s haki at that age to get his ship through the calm belt when the news about roger’s arrest went out, or did a ship traveling into east blue end up with a stowaway or two?

any way you look at it, i have to imagine being a teenager alone (or nearly alone) on the grand line must have been terrifying. who wouldn’t think back on childhood dreams of independence and wince at that poor child, who didn’t know how good they had it? after going it alone against your will, who wouldn’t cling to a familiar face?

circumstances change 3: relationship upgrade.

kind of in line with the above: after being thrown into the world alone, unexpectedly, who wouldn’t cling to a familiar face? or… more than cling? 😉 but seriously, i’m a bit of a pessimist about this hypothesis. i think it can make sense, it just also makes me sad.

because if shanks wants buggy to come with him because they’re romantically involved, i think that would make buggy less certain of his place in shanks’ life. crew is crew forever! even when you leave the ship, you’re still a part of its crew deep down. a kissing relationship, though… that can go away easy as the wind. if shanks wants him around to kiss, what happens if they stop kissing? does shanks stop wanting him around?

but also: does buggy want to be around shanks, if he only wants buggy around to kiss? isn’t buggy a pirate worthy of shanks’ respect?! didn’t he grow up on the same ship, learning the same lessons? why shouldn’t he be captain of his own ship?! why is he even kissing this idiot in the first place?!!

of course, shanks doesn’t mean it to come across this way. when he asks a buggy he’s involved with to come with him, he means that he loves buggy and would miss him if they weren’t on the same ship. but you know how buggy always hears the worst possible meaning to any sentence spoken to him.

#asked and answered #my meta #jyanadavega #one piece #shuggy #shanks #buggy #sorry this took so long! i wanted to give this response as much consideration as you did your ask #and work was… so rough last week. hard to think good thoughts.#anyway you’re very right about grief playing a big role in the roguetown split #though i imagine much of that year post-disbanding was spent working through that grief in theory… the reality HAD to hit different #& in the last section i say ‘kiss’ but. feel free to substitute whatever verb you like. the essential meaning remains the same.#*the shuggy roguetown breakup #*the roger pirates disbandment #*the chop-chop fruit

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winepresswrath · 1 year

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The author is dead but according to our beloved necromantic traditions Jod is neither telling a series of slickly manipulative half-lies nor painstakingly recounting the truth as best he is able. He is drunk and ranting at McDonalds. Perhaps most crucially, he is going to regret this when he sobers up.

#no but he HAS been drunk and he's god. he can probably get fries with his geriatric and adoring admiral if he wants them #also I DID very much start a harrow reread and to the surprise of probably no one it's very rewarding in a post Nona world #John going off about how absolutely no one has to know about harrow's murdergenesis #that no one has the right to know? I'm late I'm late but oof does that hit different in light of his late night confessions #when god regrets spilling his guts in the early a.m. what does he do about it?#I'm worried for our girl harrow #mr. no one ever forgives you for real and I am so uncomfortable with anyone being mad at me #I created a society where everyone worships me as a god #and now!!! im fucking Admiral God's Home is On This Ship #You Speak of frailties I had not noticed in GOD #sarpedon goes from responding to jod's touch like a brand to getting his dick in #pour one out he is having the ABSOLUTE wildest time #Jod has been on that ship for 80 years! longer than his whole career!#anyway the guy who mindwiped all his friends so they couldn't judge him and then killed them when they got mad at him anyway #and THEN decided to fuck someone who adores him unconditionally to help with the breakup sadness #may not respond well to that post drunken honesty vomit vulnerability and regret

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asteria-argo · 2 months

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correct me if I'm wrong but I was just thinking about the roykeeley in season two of it all, and that fight where Keeley loses it at Roy for being clingy because she can't handle how close they are now that they work in the same building but like,,, Keeley and Roy would have been working in the same building while dating for a good chunk of season one as well.

She started working at Nelson Road before Jamie was even sent back to Manchester. They would of had months working in the same building, so either Roy has always been that clingy and Keeley just didn't mind at first, which I found doubtful given that it only takes her like a week to blow up at him for it in season two, or Roy being clingy is an out of character thing for him to be doing that should've raised some kind of red flag to friends and loved ones that I feel like from what we know about Keeley as a character would've been treated with more empathy than she actually had in the show.

#i'm going off of memory so this might not be anything #but wasn't one of her complaints that he sat quietly in her office reading when they were on break?#girl how is that being clingy and not just regular levels of wanting to spend time with your partner?#I stand by that Roy wasn't in the wrong for that #I actually stand by Roy not being in the wrong for MOST of his relationship with Keeley #I don't even think he was wrong for breaking up with her #I will not ever view breaking off a relationship you aren't happy in as selfish #and I don't care how much the show tries to make me view him as selfish for it or like he threw something good away #no he didn't #just because Keeley was hurt by being broken up with (understandable reaction) does not mean Roy did the wrong thing by breaking up with he #he looked at the way their relationship was going and saw that he wouldn't be happy if he stayed so he left #and the show tried to frame that as a bad thing #“maybe i should've just stuck around and enjoyed it”#no sir that's not how these things work #staying in a failing relationship just because you don't want to be alone isn't healthy you did the right thing #your career and your love life aren't metaphors for each other #and let me be clear Roy and Keeley were 100% a failing relationship right from the start of season 2 with the fight that inspired this post #keeley's feelings about the breakup aren't more valid then Roy's just because she's the hurt party #and they clearly broke up amicably if Keeley is willing to sit down and tell Phoebe about it with him #she wasn't jilted or wronged in any way and the show framing it like that grinds my fucking gears

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discoidal · 3 months

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i make fun of writer in the dark irl but in the shower after a breakup with taste and irony down the drain and all thats left is earnestness in anger and pain. that shit hits. anyways i wrote a poem

#u know when theres a pain so deep and immediate that u start reliving shallower pains to take the edge off? one of my cats is in the vet #again. right after oreo's death. for an unrelated reason. i truly cant deal with anything rn so im just vividly reliving every breakup #it's looking like tom hardy the cat will make it so i can talk about it now . unfortunately now that we're past the point of danger all the #pain has suddenly hit me full force. anyways. toxic yuri and revenge poetry u can never post ftw

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roobylavender · 8 months

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(Really long ask ahead i’m sorry!) I think your thoughts on dick and his similarities vs differences to bruce are so interesting! Personally i’m wondering how much of NTT played an influence on this kind of characterization bc i’ve never fully finished ntt but i read like nearly all the pre-80s batman 1940 issues lol and dick very much was portrayed as more idealistic than bruce in some ways while more no-nonsense (? For lack of better word) in other ways, like when it comes to batman easing up a little on selina for romance reasons LOL. Though ofc dick totally turns into - well, a dick - in team books, as i grow older i find myself far more compelled by a potential story of an 18 yr old who seemed to have the whole weight of the world on his shoulders (by his own perception) and breaking under his own impractically strong sense of duty and sky-high expectations for others, then realizing as he grows older that it doesn’t have to be that way esp after seeing the perspectives of characters like kory, wally, joey, roy, etc. Like personally as someone who never really had a huge interest in NTT anyway, i’m surprised at how desperately people want to hold on to the characterization of dick when he was 18-19 and never letting him grow past that, like it’s so difficult for me to believe that at age 25 he would be the same uptight controlling kid that he was at 19. Maybe i’m biased though bc i was like one of those insufferable INTJ internet stereotypes as a teenager, and while that worldview did bring me achievements i’m proud of like the fact that i’m in med school rn studying what i love, i still know that at age 22 i have changed SO much from when i was 18 and i can’t imagine any reasonably mature or normally-functioning person (let alone someone high-functioning like dick) not doing the same lol. Especially since dick is the kind of person who would literally die if he’s not constantly growing and evolving past his faults bc of his insufferable perfectionism, idk how he’d be willfully blind to the negative effects of his worldview in early NTT and refuse to grow from there. He even has a quote that’s like “i’ve spent years as a student of my own behavior” which i always found highly encouraging bc i know he really does want to improve himself even at his worst. It reminds me of that Marcus Aurelius quote: “if someone can prove me wrong and show me my mistake in any thought or action, i shall gladly change. I seek the truth, which never harmed anyone; the harm is to persist in one’s own self-deception and ignorance.” But what are your thoughts? (Thank you for reading all this 🥹)

oh i absolutely agree! i cannot tell you how many times i think about the person i was a couple years ago and who i am now like i cringe so much omg.. maturity is an ever persistent process even if we don't recognize its effects immediately and it absolutely is crazy to think that anyone would remain in such a static state of mind for several years on end. esp when like you said dick is someone who wants to be better! so despite his several hypocrisies it is nonetheless in his best interests to look internally and analyze and evolve. and i feel like that very much could have happened had there been any actual segue between dick's breakup with kory and his re-entry into the batfam. i don't think there was much of a connection between these two sets of writers at all and so what you got is what felt like two very distinct parts of dick's life that didn't necessarily reveal a bridge point. so it's not entirely unrealistic that dick may grow to be the person (at least to some extent) that bat canon portrayed him to be in the years that followed but i certainly think as it stands it felt unearned and like all of his issues explored in ntt were conveniently swept to the side without any semblance of closure (albeit i do think some of these issues are addressed in outsiders '03 but in that dickheaded way that winick explores things generally. so i'm not sure it's the kind of closure people actually want). it's very sad and ig that's what people cling to more than anything. it's not that they're opposed to him growing to be a better person but that they're opposed to a version of dick who feels like he sprung out of nothing

#ironically enough i Do think dick going back to gotham after the kory breakup made sense #like when something that big happens in your life what are you going to do. seek the advice of the one person you look up to more than anyt #ing right. but marv wolfman complicated things by writing bruce the way he did so rather than bruce playing an active part #in guiding dick through some of his issues and mistakes he instead became dick's burden to bear through extensive post knightfall trauma #and i mean you all know i Love knightfall. i really do it gives me brainworms upon brainworms #but i wish there had been just one moment. like after it was all over. that bruce and dick actually got to talk and like #discuss dick's problems yknow #i get the feeling they didn't delve much when writing prodigal bc they had to set up the next arcs and stuff but it's like #come on. come on. they could've afforded it. if dick really had to come back to gotham for a temporary stint where he tried to find himself #than a proper conversation with bruce about what he was going through should have been a part of that #bc i do think working with bruce's new cavalry of three teen heroes (tim / steph / cass) would have borne wonderful opportunities #for dick to grow as a leader and peer considering his ridiculous expectations of others and how this would measure up against teenagers #but the problem is that bat canon decided he was going to magically gel with everyone bc he was emotionally more well adjusted than bruce #was. like ok. ok. whateverrrrrrrr #like idk it's so funny they were given a dick with a plethora of issues and instead of using any of that ammo they were like nah #we're going to make our lives harder and give him new problems manifested out of thin air. totally makes sense. bullseye #outbox

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hamartia-grander · 1 year

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My life advice is that you don't have to have a succinct and intellectually worded argument to counter every shitbag jacking off in your notes/asks/etc. They literally can't get smarter no matter how hard you try so you have full permission to troll them or tell them to get cucked or joke about fucking their mom. It is always morally correct to obliterate haters in the most degrading ways possible

#dbh #resident evil #star wars #etc #As I'm typing this I'm remembering the 'don't ask me for advice I advocate breakups and crimes' post and I'm thinking maybe that's me #But fr what are they gonna do. Even if they try arguing with you/bringing up counterpoints #they're not gonna change they're not gonna get smart no matter how eloquently you explain yourself #So at that point? Just roast the shit out of them. This is my life advice.#Tell the misogynists you'll fuck their girl right in front of them #I'm not speaking from experience oh no. I have never said that before. [read in John Mulaney's voice]

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lordcastaway · 10 days

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historians should just leave him alone with all the neurosyphilis-kids-from-maids nonsense

#lord castlereagh #it's so hard being the only person who gets everything right about him 💅💅💅 everyone else is wrong about everything #fur coat — on #new post breakup haircut — awful #eyes — red from tears #face — swolen cause crying #duel — incoming

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selcouthbuzz · 26 days

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an apology letter.

guilt has always been one of my most prominent feelings. i’ve always been the bad kid or wrong in the ways i do things. i carry so much of it with me, from being my sisters first bully, to not being enough to save my father, to hurting you; my real first love. guilt is a feeling that hurts almost as bad as grief. at least for me. i feel like i even look guilty, just being alive. as if my whole being human thing is a conflict for everyone who crosses my path.

toka,

i’m sorry.

look, i know you hate those words. and i’ve grown to hate them myself. because now, now i understand.

i’m sorry for the petty shit on my socials. i know some of it hurts, and i’ve been doing it on purpose our whole relationship (together or not.) and that doesn’t make me any better than you. i guess i want you to know how bad you make me feel, or how i feel in general. or make you hurt. which also doesn’t heal me. just makes me feel worse. i want your attention.

i’m sorry for this stupid god forsaken cycle we’ve created. it’s never done anything but hurt us both. i don’t think i’ve ever walked away from our relationship feeling satisfied with us. i’ve never gotten enough of you, and even when i said is did, i didn’t. i had enough of you not letting me get enough.

i’m sorry for all the pain i’ve caused. even at times i did mean to hurt you. i regret it now. as much as i want to believe you deserved my hurt, i know you didn’t. but i didn’t deserve the hurt from you either.

i’m sorry for maybe having bigger expectations than you are capable of. maybe i shouldn’t have pushed so hard. i only did because i know the potential you have, and how you’re scared of your own success.

i’m sorry for making my problems bigger than yours. im a big person with a big personality, you know that. but that doesn’t mean i should’ve made you small. that probably feels really shitty, and i’m deeply apologetic for my actions.

i’m sorry for not being your forever. i know at one point we both really wanted it, until we started to get tired of the cycle.

i’m sorry that i miss you. i know i shouldn’t. i know you miss me too. i know you shouldn’t. but i really wish we could.

i love you toka, regardless of how you’ve done me or how i’ve done you. i know i wasn’t perfect, i wasn’t ever aiming for perfection. i was just trying to be someone you could love. and i’m sorry i wasn’t.

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