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lucianalight · 5 months

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Loki S2 Review

I rewatched S2 and I liked it even more on the second watch. I'm giving it a 6 out of 10 in average(8 for the finale). Since I didn't post a review week by week like for S1, I'm just going to talk about the main things I liked/disliked

The Improvements & Things I liked:

The pace and the narrative's tone and framing have changed. While the pace drops sometimes, these moments aren't as boring as S1. Meaning you don't want to constantly check when it's going to end(like you know, S1 and especially 1x06). The narrative is neutral and doesn't villain code Loki and hero code others. It doesn't turn Loki into a clown, a punching bag or someone who deserves humiliation(I guess they've done enough of that in S1). On the contrary the characters are shown as flawed people, with Loki being the most moral, considerate, logical and heroic amongst them.

They stated bluntly in episode 1, that what TVA used to do, were atrocities. That they were killing numerous innocent people who had a right to live their lives as they chose.

The characters were three dimensional, likable or tolerable despite their actions in S1. They showed remorse for the things they had done. Although the way the narrative chose to go about it in S1 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It shouldn't happen to you for you to realize sth is wrong. But at least it was shown that the characters weren't slaughtering people mindlessly and some of them deep down knew it was wrong. Although the fact that they still did it, because of the "greater good", and "woe is me! It's not a comfort it's a burden" attitude about it is repulsive.

OB, Casey and Timely being funny, cute nerds and fanboys :D

Loki using amazing magical stuff and DID YOU SEE THE GREEN MAGICAL GLOW IN HIS EYES?*incoherent screaming*

No Romance. It was unnecessary and rushed in S1. This time they focused more on Loki needing friends and that was definitely a better choice imo and what they should have gone for in S1 too.

Sylvie's actions and personality framed as what they were. She wasn't put on a pedestal as this amazing different FeMaLe version of Loki. She was framed as a flawed character with wrong and right actions and beliefs.

Loki and Sylvie's talk in the pie land, about change, hope, fixing what's broken and being gods. That sigh before Loki saying "We are gods" with all the weight of the world on his shoulders. Wonderful acting.

The ending and its epic soundtrack.

Topics & Things That Could Have Been Handled Better:

The Topic of New York Invasion

"Sometimes a rage builds up and you just gotta let it out. Do you remember that time I was so angry with my father and my brother, I went down to Earth and I held the whole of New York city hostage with an alien army? Tried to use the mind stone on Tony Stark? It didn't work so I threw him off the building. It wasn't tactical. I lost it"

On the surface it looks like Loki's saying that's why he attacked New York and probably most people accept this without a second thought.

But the context of the scene matters. We see during the interrogation Mobius loses his temper. He was worried about Loki getting angry, but he was the one who loses his temper and hits Brad. Loki tries to calm him down by sympathizing with him to try and see what caused his behavior. It's the same thing he did for Thor in the first movie, before coronation and after it, while Thor was nervous and angry. What he says about New York while isn't the whole truth, it also isn't untrue. He was angry with Thor and Odin but as we know his anger and thoughts were influenced by the scepter. We also know Loki doesn't like to talk about his time with Thanos or being tortured. Instead he uses a half-truth, sth that is in character for Loki.

So the scene can be rationalized by this analysis but it's still annoying that this analysis is even needed. They should have been clear about the scepter's influence especially when mcu confirmed it.

Loki thinking about Thor's change as being a weakness. While both Thor and Loki were groomed and taught to consider being soft as a weakness, that wasn't Loki's true feelings. At least I don't think someone who prefers words and magic-that are considered a weakness in Asgard-over brawn thinks like that. His goal in the first movie was to goad Thor into fighting him. So the line should have been sth like this: "Asgard taught us being soft is a weakness, so I used that against Thor to goad him into a fight. I said he's gone soft…"

Plotholes and things that weren't explained.

Why Loki and Sylvie weren't sent to their original timelines like others? And why neither of them showed any interest in seeking their family? You're telling me Loki wants to see these people he knows for 10 seconds more than Frigga or Thor? OOC.

Sylvie's sudden mastery of magic since 1x06 isn't explained. She didn't know much, but then suddenly could do everything Loki did. I mean I can headcanon that her and Loki linking their power taught her some things but these sudden developments without any explanations are annoying.

Loki's genderfluidity. No mention of it at all. Although I believe that no representation is better than bad representation. And you should leave a topic alone if you don't understand it, otherwise you're gonna mess it up. Because bad rep can be more harmful. And so maybe it was a good thing mcu let that one go. But they could still fix it with some shapeshifiting, explaining its difference with illusions and Loki confirming that he is comfortable in her female form.

Loki's clothes. It's probably not that important in comparison with other issues but I really hate that beige suit. Why Sylvie who doesn't even want to be Loki and wasn't in Asgard since childhood changes into an Asgardian outfit for a fight and not Loki? Yeah I get it. It was because of the last reveal and transformation and finding his identity blah blah blah but at least they could have gave him his old Asgardian clothes or he could change the suit's color ugh

Criticism & Things I didn't like:

The ooc moments for Loki in some comedic scenes. Especially in episode 5. While the character has a comedic potential, it's not based on clownery or clumsiness. The best humorous moments for Loki are the ones where he outwits others, use sarcastic language or he is being outwitted despite his careful plans.

Certain emotional stakes aren't clear from the start. The audience know that saving TVA is the right thing because it protects all the freed timelines but they don't know why they should care? Or more accurately why Loki is so emotionally invested in this goal. That gets answered in episode 5 and while Loki's talk with Sylvie is a good emotional scene, the fact that it's stated so late in the story, makes the first few episodes boring when it comes to saving TVA.

The main reason the emotional stakes aren't clear(at least for me), I believe is because most of the people Loki call them his "friends", haven't done anything to either deserve his friendship or aren't close enough to be considered a friend. Let alone someone Loki tries to move heaven and hell to be with them, instead of for example trying to find his brother and family. It is an issue which again is rooted in S1 and carried to S2. What happened in S1 wasn't therapy or a healthy friendship.

However, Loki being loyal to anyone who show him an ounce of affection or him being moral enough to try to save people are in character for him and that's sth good about it.

The torture scene.

The trick Mobius and Loki pulled was predictable as hell. I didn't even doubted Loki in TDW, let alone here. And even though I didn't believe for one second that Loki's actually going to hurt the guy, and he wasn't shown enjoying it, I still hated that he went along with the torture idea Mobius had come up with. Especially considering the fact that he was a victim of torture himself and never shown any sign in canon that he would torture someone. So yeah I hated that scene.

And why that scene was even necessary? Loki could get into X-5's mind when they weren't in TVA. We know he is capable of it. He did it both through mind stone in Avengers and in TR. how else they were going to delve into Mobius' problem though smh

But alright let's say they needed a scene like that. Still the whole Brad believing Mobius is against torture, and Loki's the one who would be in favor of it, is so fucking ridiculous. Any way you look at it, it has always been TVA and Mobius who did any torture we've seen during the two seasons. The tortures that Loki endured might I add. Even in the previous scene, it was Loki who didn't hit Brad and only tried to intimidate him non-physically by acting as a villain. It was Mobius who hit him, who was shown more affected by Brad's insults. So logically the scene they had planned to fool Brad, should have been played completely the opposite way. By having Mobius do the torture. At least it was recognized that the torture idea was from Mobius and both he and Loki gave the credits for it to Mobius.

Verity Willis. Hunter B15 unlike the Verity in comics, doesn't have a close friendship with Loki or truth detector powers. Not having a good friend like comics Verity for Loki, was such a wasted opportunity in the series.

Mobius saying to Loki "You're a man of action...". That was such a stupid, unnecessary line. As if the main difference between Loki and Thor wasn't Thor acting before thinking, and Loki thinking and planning before acting. While Loki is also a man of action, he is first and foremost a man of strategy. The only plausible explanation imo is that Mobius said it to not feel useless in comparison with Loki and his skills.

"Thor's not that tall". Yeah, no. I don't think Loki's reaction to seeing Thor and Odin's statues would be that. Knowing his brother and family were murdered by the very same people he's working with now. Remind me again why he's considering them "FrIeNdS"? Someone really needs to explain the concept of friendship to Loki. Or rather the writers of this show.

And while we are at it. Let's talk about how Loki's past and identity issues were completely swapped under the rug as if they were all magically fixed and didn't matter anymore. As if those weren't the most important part of his journey. Another issue rooted in S1.

Final Thoughts(for now :D)

Season 2 was definitely better than season 1. Not perfect, and not for those who care about OG Loki's issues. They set him on a completely different path in S1 and they messed up any chance to actually delve into his problems. So in S2 we're having a character that we're supposed to accept has moved on from certain issues, and now tries to find what he wants and where he belongs. Still, I think that they listened to the criticism for once as they tried to fix some of the problems of S1. After many years it didn't feel like that the creators hate the character, or using him as a prop, or a plot device. It was a story about Loki. A bittersweet story for the god of stories.

#me: i liked this season #also me: here's a list of all its issues :D #loki s2 review #long post #loki #loki series criticism #loki s2 positivity

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dewdropreader · 6 months

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❦ ➷ get to know your fellow fanfic writers better ༊ ✧.*

I was tagged by @bebx and @loki-is-my-kink-awakening for this “get to know the writer” tag! Thank you! 😊

when did you post your first ever fanfic?

I believe in 2012-2013? I was around 13-14 years old, so around then anyway (my first one doesn’t exist online anymore as far as I know so I can’t double check.) it was the usual middle school fandom girl era lol. First for my current account was February of 2022!

first character you wrote for:

It would have been Rin Matsuoka from Free! Iwatobi Swim Club! Specifically him and Nitori, they were one of my fave ships in that series!

main character(s) you’re currently writing for:

Basically anyone from the Loki series but especially Loki and Mobius and Sylvie, not necessarily in that order or all together but some combo of them 💚

character(s) you haven’t written about before but plan on writing about soon:

I haven’t written for OFMD but would really like to! I’ve had a lot of feels s2, no solid ideas yet but maybe something will spark some inspiration! Also Red White and Royal Blue! I haven’t gotten a chance to read the book yet but I watched the movie and got hooked and love those boys too 💕 so maybe one or both of them if the Loki series even temporarily gets it’s hooks out of me (with s2 though I’ve been as bad if not worse than before with my obsession so who knows lol)

And for within marvel the ship that got me into fanfic and got me to make this current ao3 account was Stucky so even though I only read for them and never wrote, they always have a place in my heart!

fandom(s) you’re currently writing for:

Also just Loki atm! But who knows for the future.

platonic pairing(s) you currently write for:

Mobius and any of the void Lokis as the best found family ever (Mobius and kid, Mobius and classic, Mobius and all of them my beloveds)

I haven’t written it recently but also wrote B-15 and Sylvie in a non romantic context and even though I think they’re also cute romantically I love them as a platonic pair and want to do more with them too! Similarly Sylvie and C-20, I wish they could have been friends if things had gone a bit differently 🥺

romantic pairing(s) you currently write for:

Lokius and Sylkius! Haven’t written any pure Sylki but who knows (I just like Mobius too much to not include him atm)

your top 3 tags on AO3 (if you post your works on AO3):

Hurt/comfort, fluff, and hugs 😂 sounds about right to me! I like some pain and crying and working through stuff but need the hugs and comfort alongside it/after it for sure.

your current platform where you post your works

AO3 is the same as my name here!

I try to post my fics links on tumblr too but don’t always remember so ao3 is always best bet if you want to read my stuff!! 😍

snippet of the wip you’re currently working on:

Right now I’m most heavily focused on a character study type fic cataloging different moments with Sylvie adapting to her McDonald’s life but specifically looking at her relationship with Jack, I think she would have such a great big sister vibe and they could learn a lot from each other 🥹

“Good job today, Sylvie,” Jack says, his lopsided smile clear even before Sylvie glances his way. He’s always got compliments and kindness at the ready, and he’s young and gentle enough that they’re always believable.

“Thanks, Jack,” she feels a smile curl onto her face. She still, even after knowing Loki and Mobius and B-15, feels like she doesn’t know how to have friends or family or any genuine connections at all. But Jack is the first in a long time to feel so real to her, to feel like a relationship she can stick with, with these new more permanent circumstances and her distance from the trauma of the TVA. She doesn’t remember what it’s like to be a sister, her memories of Thor long gone beyond the occasional glimmers in her dreams, let alone what being the older sister would be like, but this is what she suspects it is. A fierce protectiveness and gentle care, the ignoring of any silly flaws or naïveté because you just care about the person. That’s what she has for Jack, ever since he took her under his wing as an employee, she’s done the same for him as just a person.

“Mind if I stay here for a bit? My ma is going to be a few more minutes.”

Sylvie just smiles softly and scoots over on the wide hood of her truck, gesturing to the empty spot.

Jack nods rather sagely as he awkwardly hoists himself on to the hood of the truck, pushing himself up with his arms and then practically throwing himself on to it.

He pants softly as he adjusts to lay on his back a foot or two away from Sylvie, giving her another boyish grin. “Hey.”

“Very smooth, Jack,” Sylvie snorts.

“Your truck is huge! I’ve ridden in trucks before but yours is massive! I’m not sure how you even get up here, you’re shorter than me!” He laughs.

“My little secret, I guess,” Sylvie shrugs with a slight smile, returning her gaze to the inky sky, dotted with a trillion stars.

I’m excited to keep writing this, I’ve got some Lokius ideas in the works too but this one has been my focus for a few days!!

I’d love to see anyone do this that is interested but I’ll tag my usual group!!

@insert-witty-user-name-here @starport-seven-five @lgwilt @mirilyawrites @cha-melodius @chaos-monkeyy @waterhorseyblues-ao3 @blackbirdofasgard @dreamycloud @queen-of-meows

#loki #lokius #Sylvie #fanfiction #fanfic #fanfic questions #ao3 author #get to know me #fic wip

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thelightofthingshopedfor · 1 year

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I saw your posts about Redditors' very unfair interpretations of Loki. And the fact that they went straight to calling you a narcissist because you questioned who is a reliable narrator makes my blood boil. They're shutting you up by perpetuating stigma towards NPD and other Cluster B disorders. And also I hate the acceptance of police tactics that often lead to entrapment and false confessions being framed as therapy.

in response to this post describing the situation. the comment thread itself can be found here, if anyone's curious, although that just shows the specific context around my comment; the broader context was this post, and then this original comment, which unfortunately got a shit-ton of upvotes despite also being on the same general dumb argument, although before the commenter got aggressive about it. so then somebody else started arguing, and the original commenter argued back at truly ridiculous length, and then I butted in to say "er well could you maybe clarify a couple critical parts of your premise here because I'm nnnnnot sure the text supports them actually" which yes is a little obnoxious in principle but not at all unusual for this type of discussion? because...this is...how Reddit discussions go? or Twitter or Tumblr discussions for that matter, like nobody has to respond to your entire long-ass exhausting thing about how Loki Is A Nasty Narcissist With A Huge Body Count when all they really want to do is point out that you, uh, seem to have a tiny bit of a structural problem underlying your whole argument, just...right there? that structural problem? and that other one? right, and these things you're ignoring kinda render the rest of your argument a little bit irrelevant? and since you were saying that you were only talking about stuff that directly happened onscreen, then surely you have no problem talking about other things that happened directly onscreen, right? like, obviously you have answers for those things too, if this is all so self-evident. right?

...but also, I was genuinely curious who they meant by things being "explicitly stated by reliable narrators," and irritatingly enough I still am because they never fucking answered, just got pissy and flounced. like I'm assuming they meant Mobius and probably Odin? maybe also Thor? but I genuinely don't know because they literally refused to answer! probably because they knew I'm right and didn't want to admit it 🤷‍♀️

anyway. to be 100% scrupulously fair, this person speculated that I "identify with Loki's narcissistic traits and [am] trying to excuse them" rather than outright calling me a narcissist, but...you know, that's...a difference of semantics. I politely brought up some textual evidence about how maybe actually their reliable narrators aren't so reliable and also Thanos's coercion probably extended at least until the Hulk-smashing, and they responded 1) as if I was the person they'd already been arguing with (but then didn't take back any of the aggression when I said I wasn't, so, idk) and b) by personally insulting my character. soooo.

in hindsight it's actually kind of satisfying that they didn't even try to argue with me, just insulted me and flounced, because if they really had a good argument, they could've come up with something. kind of indicates they realized I had a good point and that's why they got so pissed.

honestly the thing that bothers me more is how common this viewpoint is that Loki's a narcissist, which...I hate to blame the show for but I kind of have to, because I don't think it's something I really saw until the show actually used the term, and then everyone started going "haha yes of course" without a second thought even though the vast majority of Loki's behavior isn't even remotely in line with either NPD or the more informal, nonclinical definition of narcissism that people toss around. (although, side note, I did read an absolutely incredible human AU Thorki series where iirc Loki did have clinical NPD, among other things, and it absolutely worked there. uh, mind the tags if you check it out though, maybe especially the parallel series from Loki's POV; it gets very dark in parts.) even aside from perpetuating stigma against real people with real mental illnesses, it's just--such a lazy, shallow reading, you know? and it's...honestly, it's unrealistic. you want me to believe that Loki was a narcissist by the informal definition and completely in love with himself (but also scared and hurt. these things do not fit) and blind to the damage he was doing until Magical Mr. Mobius's therapy session knocked some sense into him and forced him to do some introspection for the first time in his life, and only then did he realize some things that the all-knowing Mobius already knew about him, which caused him to make a sudden, massive personality change? yeah, no. come on. he's not stupid, lying to himself sometimes out of self-defense doesn't mean he lacks self-awareness, and nobody straight-up changes that fast. also if you want to tell me the poor kiddo who was in a constant state of breakdown from the Jotunheim battle onward was also too much in love with himself and that was the real problem, then uh...I don't think we watched the same movies.

...I guess that's the other thing that pisses me off about all this, that people keep putting so much emphasis on what Mobius did, giving him all the credit for the reality check that allowed Loki to become a hero or whatever the fuck. honestly? that was an accident. Mobius saw a potential asset and was perfectly willing to use all kinds of emotional manipulation and psychological torture to get information and see if he could turn this potential asset into a more long-term investment. the reality check wasn't what Mobius shoved in his face, it was what Loki found out on his own and had to accept for himself: that this was all real, that he did still deeply love his family and they still loved him and they were lost to him anyway, and his fucking preordained life ended with him dead at Thanos's hands.

Mobius gave him the opportunity to watch the tape and yelled at him for a while. that's mostly it. Loki did the actual work of grieving and processing everything alone and he deserves 100% of the credit, and actually I'm a lot more pissed about this than I realized. like, even if if that had actually been therapy, or even if we figure Mobius had some charitable intentions toward Loki in there as well as pragmatic ones (which...look, nobody in the TVA is exempt from ACAB so I'm not inclined to give him much benefit of the doubt, is all I'm saying), Loki would still be the one doing the work, and it's some ugly shit to act like this cop who manipulated him should get to take credit for that.

#this post went some places #loki #loki show #marvel cinematic universe #mobius m. mobius #I s2g I'm not bashing and I don't hate Mobius #...I do kinda hate the fandom obsession with him though #conversations #anonymous #my meta #loki meta #thor #fic rec #fandom nonsense

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lookwhatilost · 11 months

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they definitely course corrected after the last jedi underperformed, but to a certain degree, i think that was always the plan. if not after tlj, certainly after rise of skywalker, where they were like "we're not doing star wars movies anymore, we're doing tv shows for four year olds". like i said, i think they always intended to do that eventually, it's just that the time table changed.

it's sort of like how, with the mcu, you had a brief phase of experimentation, and i say "experimentation" in the loosest way possible. like, "okay, the james gunn stuff is hot right now. guardians of the galaxy 1 & 2 made a ton of money, so we'll get taika waititi, we'll get chloe zhao" and they did that, they kept what stuck, but they scaled it back to a certain degree after thor ragnarok and ant man because it wasn't making as much money. there's an idea of "get woke, go broke" in these counter-fandom circles, but they're sort of misunderstanding it because this was always the plan, it's just that things are happening at a slightly faster pace.

there's also the larger cultural context – trump lost, there's a democrat in the white house, and people who were really wound up because THERE'S A FRICKIN CHEETO IN THE WHITE HOUSE are calmer now and they're either not as motivated by this stuff or are burnt out on it. like, the media of the trump era, even if you agreed with all of its messaging, was so exhausting and tedious.

i mentioned it before when i went on my rant about the force awakens, but we have these movies to thank for #TheResistance media. i already brought up my issues with the resistance vs the rebel alliance, so i won't waste more time on that, but i can't be emphasized enough how much i think the success of this movie and both sides of the reactions to it are so intertwined with a) the trump year and b) this being released in december 2017, so less than two months after the weinstein and the very beginning of #MeToo. hence why you get something like that vanity fair article. these things don't completely come out of nowhere. there's always a real issue that people are reaching like mrs incredible to make a product seem more meaningful than it actually is.

a lot of the hamfisted half-assed liberal feminist stuff in this movie is just a reaction to "hillary clinton just lost because bros are too toxic to let a woman be president, and that unfortunately informed a whole micro-generation of "feminist" filmmaking. which, a couple of them were good, but a lot of them were really, really bad and shallow and really just came down to being "don't yell at your female boss".

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alistonjdrake · 2 years

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Happy wbw! I know we've chatted about money before but I want to know how you actually approach worldbuilding it!! Where do you start? How do you build it? When in your worldbuilding process DO you build it? Is it something you struggle at cause I sure fuckin do.

Okay.

I know nothing about like, the economy or financial stuff. But what I've found is that always when I start a new story, eventually I'm going to have a throwaway line about how much something costs. It always comes up so I started telling myself that at least the name/type of currency and what is most readily available to the average person is at least third on the list of things I think about when I start making a new world. This especially became something I focused on when my stories leaned towards international scopes and characters traveling and then either needed to exchange currency or there would have to be some sort of system in place. I am rambling.

With most things, I start with naming it because I guess I like to work backwards. Then I try to assign a "worth" to it. This really depends on what the context I need for it. Like I know the Escana idros is worth 500 rugos (I refuse to translate this into real-world dollars) and given that during the height of the Escana Empire, the idros would be the most valuable coin on the continent, most international deals are done through this currency. Because of a throwaway line in THoR I know the Gegraen currency is worth more than the one used in Palogne. When I assign a worth to a coin I'm usually thinking about what it represents. When I was making the idros, the thing that mattered was displaying how rich and important the Escana are (and honestly this helped me think more about their economy in general because I had to then figure out how they ended up with a coin so high in value and enough to have 3 different ones minted in gold and others in expensive metals so then I started actually thinking about what they contribute and where they stand as a power).

I think it's enough to give a form of currency a name and say what it looks like. The average reader doesn't care about the mint and such.

#june trash #wbw asks

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puckwritesstuff · 2 years

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17. Talk to me about the minutiae of your current WIP. Tell me about the lore, the history, the detail, the things that won’t make it in the text.

My current WIP? Well, I picked the title for the next chapter:

But not to just be a troll while dangling the next arc in y'all's face, I do have a full outline of the next arc for the main fic. Looks like it's going to be about 5 chapters, which is typical for the individual movie arcs (Thor was 4 chapters, The Dark World and Ragnarok got 5 each, Infinity War and Endgame was a total of 8 together). The reason "King Sigyn and the Warriors of Asgard" was longer was because I had to come up with the movie whole cloth and there weren't large swaths of unchanged material that I could leave up to the audience's imagination.

In terms of the things that aren't going to make it into the text-- a lot of the stuff that doesn't end up making it are concepts or scenes. With Multiverse of Madness, there's the question of who's going to be sent where, and what verses am I going to use. I've already scrapped an idea where Loki gets sent to the Father of Death AU and meets a full grown Hela Lokisdóttir, mostly for time, but also because it didn't fit with the story themes.

(it also runs counter to a bit of worldbuilding that will absolutely be in the text but I don't want to spoil that)

You'll get to see how I've adjusted Wanda's arc to the fic, and how Sigyn's story thus far fits in with what's going on. In the main fic, I established that Wanda sought asylum in New Asgard, but I wasn't sure what the MCU was going to do with her post WandaVision. Now that I know where things are headed, I can backfill some of the intermediate time and point out some things that make her development make a bit more sense. There's also stuff that Loki and Sigyn are going to be doing that connect with other stuff that I've done outside of the fic, but I'll make it make sense in the text.

I'm nowhere near drafted enough to start doing my "out of context quotes" bits, but I'm excited to get through the first draft of this.

Thank you for the ask!

#meta #ask #loki #sigyn #logyn #loki x sigyn #Love Duty and Glorious Purpose fic

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the-firebird69 · 2 years

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Rumor has it you want to fight trying to read my Lord you didn't have enough last night that cut your head off and blew your brains out the brains came out this morning cuz he wouldn't shut your face and cut your head off and got information I needed rest of it is useless to me

My bodyguard star

Actually I'm the one that did the deed and she was fast asleep when I chopped his head off and his body went running off I was freaked out so I grabbed his head and took off

Azog

It's what the hell's going on here this is a madhouse I saw a video with Trump's body moving around that matches that movie it's completely different video and context we can see you in it azog and nothing indicates that our boy has anything to do with it and yeah the body is moving around on its own he says the body took off and did a whole bunch of dastardly deeds to its own stuff and to others and I guess got reunited and he shot him in the head well good for you thank you for admitting it I guess

Mac

We had to he did some nasty stuff to us in Worcester he decapitated my wife and blame me and we're pretending we're Japanese nowhere after this piece of crap let me get rid of him that song he can do with his torso and I realized it's him and he got rid of a whole bunch of his own idiots he got rid of tons of his own stuff I know cuz we're following behind taking it

Azog

That's the most losers thing I've ever heard they're forcing to do it somehow and he had no idea it was Sam nor did we I should but I guess I got shot in the head

Trump

There's a painful part of life learning about those people and they're blaming me too I guess they're coming for me and they're going to hit me and they're the what we're calling orc they're not really they're really vampires and it's kind of sucky cuz the movie is out in Santa Clara that's where the supposedly headquartered we're going out there to do the movie to see if we can find them

Bja

And there's another movie that breaks out and it's stupid but happens

Thor Freya

Olympus

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bedlamsbard · 2 years

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☕the later MCU's biggest flaw is that it'll set up something as a Huge Shift and there won't be consequences. The fallout from Avengers 1 (and Iron Man) echoes throughout, even into Hawkeye. The fallout from the Accords obviously and now the Blip hasn't been nearly as well handled. The Blip especially should be to the MCU universe what March 2020 is to us, instead it's throwaway references and the occasional character dealing with it

Absolutely agree. Phase 1 and Phase 2 were really good at dealing with consequences (they didn't always do it well, but they were really good at actually acknowledging the fact that they existed), and even through Phase 3 and Phase 4 there are a lot of those Phase 1 and Phase 2 consequences still echoing down the line. Phase 3 it kind of falls apart (I think this may also be when the MCU took its huge secrecy at all costs shift, which had major repercussions storytelling-wise -- I'm always thinking about that one comment somewhere about how the PTB had to tell the Eternals writers about the Snap/Blip, which implies...they didn't tell any of the other post-IW/EG writers...) and I almost wonder if it's partially because of how badly AoU was received? Because AoU does have consequences, but it's almost despite itself -- the film's whole purpose is to have consequences (Wanda, Vision, the Accords, Thor taking off, Hulk leaving), but they're so deliberately set up for plot purposes rather than emotional/thematic ones.

*hands* On some level the nitty-gritty of "why" doesn't matter (though I always find the craft stuff interesting), but it's just gotten really bad in Phase 3/4 (though they're both still pretty decent at dealing with Phase 1/2 repercussions, which is kind of interesting, but may be because those are now so set in stone that they're not negotiable). At this point Endgame has been out for long enough that the "we didn't tell any of our writers or directors what happened in it" shouldn't apply any longer; at bare minimum every time a character who wasn't snapped onscreen in IW appears we should be able to figure out from context (or having them outright say it) if they got blipped or not. I think especially since we have been living through *gestures* All Of This for the past two years the fact that the MCU has just glossed over the Blip as a "wow, wild" comment on the part of various characters (except for Yelena and Monica, but even then it's pretty surface-level) feels especially egregious.

#I'm sure you've heard my rant about the fact that shang-chi and the ten rings should have worked WITH the blip #instead of completely ignoring it except for one crack #and on a different note we all know my big fear about thor 4 is that they're going to completely ignore thor's iw/eg trauma #thelurkinglark #bedlam replies #meme response #bedlam watches the mcu

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tenebrius-excellium · 2 years

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How To Cheat A Dragon’s Curse Part 2 (because I cannot keep a consistent way to jot down my listening process at all, sorry about that. Just keep on the lookout for #reddie’s liveblog and you’ll be ok)

- UNIDENTIFIED FROZEN OBJECT (UFO)

- I love that Hiccup finally yelled at Stoick instead of submitting to what his father had said. It was the literal threat to the life of his best friend topped by the suggestion to make friends with SNOTLOUT instead that mirrored to Hiccup that he had to stand up to his father NOW or it would have dire consequences. If he didn’t put down his foot this time, someone would die. Before that, it apparently hadn’t been bad enough for him to act as himself (totally no painful personal flashback right there). Realizing just how bad things really are is so important.

- oh my gosh yaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssss I KNEW ONE-EYE WOULD MAKE ANOTHER APPEARANCE AND HERE HE IS IN ALL HIS GLORY; STILL NEEDING TO BE BRIBED TO LIFT A PAW

- ...is it bad for me to say that I’m...kinda glad Fishlegs got left out of this adventure? Am I heartless because of it...? It’s just...my man Hiccup can finally get to some stuff. Without Fishlegs whining about every other action and having to be dragged behind every other minute, I’ve noticed that Hiccup himself is a lot less whiny. In Camicazi’s company, it seems to be easier for him to think. To act. To lead. Idk, I recognize a lot of movie!Hiccup in him now, and I love that more. Then again, movie!Hiccup was an independent loner which didn’t do him much good in the long run. Idk, Fishlegs feels sooo much like dead weight though. Without him, Hiccup’s got a free head. A much clearer, more determined and more focussed mind to come up with an action plan that will actually save the day instead of going wrong because of someone else’s mishap.

- Doomfang certainly seems like the inspiration for movie!Toothless. Except it is much larger and a water dragon O_O what a twist. I didn’t realize there were so many water dragons in the book!verse!

- okay. this book certainly feels most like the first movie - actually like a mix of the first movie and Klaus (2019). It has a very nice Christmas-y feeling due to the description of the frozen sea contrasted with the warm lights and cozy atmosphere of the Great Hall of Hysteria...well...it’s now a definite fact that Cressida’s aestheticization of the book!verse is found at night. The description of the group racing against time over the cracking ice of the Wrath of Thor in pitchblack darkness was hauntingly beautiful.

- Like I said before, my man Hiccup can finally unpack his sass without getting interrupted by another mishap. THE SCENE WHERE HE FALLS INTO THE SOUP; IMMEDIATELY GATHERS HIS WITS AND OUTWITS NORBERT THE NUTJOB IS BRILLIANT AND PEAK ENTERTAINMENT. WHAT A LEVEL OF STORYTELLING; I AM FOREVER IN LOVE WITH THIS SCENE NOW. THANK YOU CRESSIDA. I was so surprised?????????? Hiccup is super intelligent, and Camicazi is intelligent enough to keep her mouth shut and not reveal herself. Hiccup’s such a sassy little ****, I’VE MISSED THAT SO SO MUCH ABOUT HIM YOU CAN’T EVEN COMPREHEND-

- also ohhhhhhh, so that’s the scene with the two-headed axe and the cage, I knew trivia but never knew this moment in context. Amazing.

- also Hiccup’s idea of a potato is super well reflected, very realistic and hilarious at that

That’s about as far as I got. I stopped when they all went to sleep lol. Still over an hour of this book to go!!! And I can tell why someone said that this was their favorite book out of all 12, it feels so much like Gotnf!!!! <3 <3 <3

Comments are always welcome!!

#reddie's liveblog #how to cheat a dragon's curse #you don't wanna know how many tries it took me to spell aestheticization #what a word

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nocek · 3 years

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Don't spare us the long rant! We want to hear your thoughts!

Oh you are going to regret this ;P

So here goes my loooooooong angry rant about Taskmaster and also the Black Widow movie in general.

Let's start with my point of comparison. Captain America the Winter Soldier was a good movie. It's still in my top 3 Marvel movies as I'm sure is for many people. And statistically speaking everybody likes Bucky. He is like the most beloved side character right after Loki. I guess.

Anyway. My point is that Taskmaster and Winter Soldier have bit for bit the exact same building blocks: hypercompetent antagonist that is a serious threat to our hero who just can't win with in one on one combat. But then plot twist: our antagonist was just a victim and puppet without free will in hands of actual villain who is bland bureaucrat.

So why did Winter Soldier worked really really well and Taskmaster was just ehh.. ok?

Well the short answer is that catws was a much tighter movie that had clearer goal (and also that goal/theme was singular: good things get corrupted with time and sometimes you get to start over) compared to black widow which had to jump through too many hoops and still somehow managed it but it wasn't as graceful as it would be if they (as in executives) resigned from one or two hoops and flips and explosions.

And I'm omitting a BIG disadvantage of making a prequel movie about a character that they killed off in shitty way. Though that created one of extra hoops for them to jump through: quickly build up Yelena as a character.

And character build they did. Because srsly Yelena is awesome and I love her. BUT. That came at a price.

Lets compare to catws. The new character there is Sam (and kiiiiiiiinda also Natasha a bit but that's a topic for a different rant) who is nowhere near as well build as Yelena. At the beginning. Because he had time to be fleshed out and naturally grow in few different movies and then we got a deep dive in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

But Marvel can't give Yelena few movies because she will appear in Hawkguy an Hawkeye series and also Marvel is generally dividing their assets into: outer spaaaace, down to earth heros and magic stuff (aliens, androids and wizards ;P). But also they can only create so many things in a year.

So yeah. Yelena offtopic can be summarized that I love that we have her as we have her but it came at a cost of air time of the movie.

So comparing the movies again:

Catws had the theme of good things being corrupted with time. And the theme was underlined 3 times through Peggy, Bucky and then Shield/Hydra. Which are interconnected and also make nice scale from inner conflict of the main character to the outer conflict of the movie.

In Black Widow there is the topic of the past evil that never went away and is still taking away free will from people. And again we have it shown through 3 outlets: Yelena, Taskmaster and Black Widows. But there is also whole family subplot attached to Yelena and there is Red Room attached to Black Widows. So as you can see things are getting crowded. Which in turn make the theme a bit blurry.

I mean, sure, the Red Room should be the Shield equivalent. Even it could take smaller space because good Shield turns out to be evil Hydra is generally more time consuming to explain than Red Room bad. But still combining Red Room and Black Widows make things a bit crowded.

(There is a reason why the surprise subplot of there is more Winter Soldiers was in separate movie and was kinda handwaved and cut to minimum. But they couldn't do that here).

But it's time to stop my ranting about whole Black Widow movie and focus on comparing Taskmaster and Winter Soldier.

Because to be honest both are bare bones of character and more of an carte blanche in the movie. Both have barely any screen time yet there are colossal difference which stems out of:

first introduction: as I mentioned they are hypercompetent and unstoppable threat that you can't win with, you can only hope to run away (both done equally well)

programmable killing machine:

For Taskmaster we just get a scene with her watching other heroes fighting at the screen. For the sake of building up the mystery of character we think that "he" is just watching. Maybe learning or more likely just being creepy. The information about the chip and literal programming is given to us much later in the movie which makes this scene lose the power. idk how it will work on rewatch? Maybe better? Hopefully. right now there is too many new movies in cinemas to go for a rewatch and disney+ still isn't available here -.-

For Bucky we have literal torture scene. You just can't be more blunt than that. It also hammered the next point in.

there is human behind the mask:

Winter Soldier is introduced with full face mask which he gradually loses and then we have the big reveal of not only: that's a human but also that's a human our main hero cares about deeply.

With Taskmaster they fucked up it for chap plot twist. We are learning quite late that oh snap that's Antonia (that we don't really care about) and our main hero kinda feels guilty about her.

I think the big difference is what kind of character Steve and Nat are and also the way they reveal this secret. Steve actively recognizes Bucky by himself and is very openly shocked. Nat is passively told and shown that hey, this is Antonia. And there is no time in the movie for Nat (and for us) to be shocked because that's the 3rd act and we need time for explosions and stuff.

Besides, the problem is that all the big plot twist reveals are boring on rewatch (stil big props for Pacific Rim and giving us the monster reveal in like second minute of the movie, I will never not appreciate that).

Also on related shitty note. We the audience. Bucky is handsome and vulnerable and we can drool all over him (and oh man, we the fandom did a fair share of drooling). Antonia is disfigured and not sexualized in any way. Which I'm actually grateful for but there is no pretending that doesn't make a hell lot of difference. But that's a whole different, ugly and big topic I'm not remotely qualified to write about. I'm just angry ranting here.

they don't have free will:

For Winter Soldier we have amnesia + torture tropes which to be honest have been done over and over again and it shouldn't have worked as well as it worked. Bit it did. In context of Black Widow movie it worked because it was just one guy that actively broke through brainwashing with active help of the hero.

In Black Widow there is a lot of characters that are pasively "woken up" out of mind control over and over again by active protagonist. Unfortunately the repetition kinda cheapens it. Especially in comparison to main gut punch right in the feels scene in the other movie. Which is why it's not fair to compare the two.

So lets talk about lack of free will aspect itself. To be honest the mind control aspect in Black Widow was done really great from story perspective. Evil scientists perfected it to the point it being (bit handwavey but) completely impersonal but also completely dehumanizing to the subject. So I'm buying that it can be completely switched off in equally efficient and impersonal way. Even the way they explained it with Alexei the pig was great and terrifying... to a point. Because then kicked the main problem with this movie. Clearly some execs came and saw it and went whoa... that's too dark for pg13 blockbuster. Let's put some cheap jokes here. And it happens over and over again in this movie :S

humanizing flashback scene that ties them to main hero:

For Bucky, sure we had Captain America First Avenger but a movie needs to stand on it's own legs. That's why we have the flashback scene which shows us that Bucky cared about Steve. Leaving it at the narration in Smithsonian of "best friends since childhood" would be just telling us. And we needed to be shown and we needed a space for the "till the end of line" so it could come back and stab us right in the feels.

Also because we are ignoring previous movie Russos cleverly made us care about Winter Soldier because Steve cares about Winter Soldier. And we already know and like Steve so building up our main character gives us more mileage out of new bare bones character (because let's be honest, Winter Soldier is just that). Two birds one stone thing.

In Black Widow there is no such thing which IMHO is the main reason Taskmaster doesn't work. We just get information about cardboard cutout: insert cute little girl here (only told, not even shown actual cardboard) and all of the emotional connection to Natasha is: I know that my boss that I hate has a daughter, she got in the crossfire. Which means nobody cares.

All it would take is adding a short flashback scene. idk Dreykov is an asshole and doesn't care about Antonia but she is she cutest and most adorable little girl. She treats the Black Widows as older sisters. Hell if you want to make it more horrorish copy of the idea of Thor wanting to be a Valkyrie when he grows up or T'challa wanting to be a Dora Milaje. Little Antonia wants to be Black Widow when she grows up because they are badass and they are nice to her (and are also slightly confused by her) because she is nice to them and is only person that treats them as humans. Hell we could have short interaction between her and Nat. Just a smile between them would be enough.

You could get a lot of character buildup mileage out of such a short scene.

But it couldn't happen partially because the movie didn't have time for that but we didn't get that mostly because it would show us instead of telling that Nat killed a cute little innocent girl for her own personal gain. (well she thought she was destroying Red Room but mostly wanted to get away - vide she didn't check on Yelena or other widows. But I wouldn't hold that against her. It was put your oxygen mask first kind of situation. But still it would make her look bad)

Besides, that would take guts to actually show.

And technically they could have afforded to have that guts. That was last movie with Nat anyway. It would actually make this plotline about her feeling guilty about Dreykov's daughter and red in her ledger work. But well... It was last movie so they wanted to leave us with the most goodest and bleeding hartest and heartwarming mary sue version of Nat with just telling us without showing hey, she got dark past.

On the other hand if we had the rumored Endgame plotline of Nat running an orphanage. Damn that would tie to this plotline so well. We could tie the loose widows also. Dam we were robbed here I tell ya >.<

Ok I'm overdoing offtopic about Nat. Sorry

design

So yeah. Design wise Winter Soldier is like great. For Taskmaster, she sure looks cool but also kinda generic? If in 10 years you'd show me her and say it's antagonist from GI Joe or something I'll believe you :S (not touching the debate that in comics something something because unfortunately I don't know Taskmaster from comics. Although I hear that few recent ones were quite good so I'll check them out sooner or later)

snapping out of mind control

I mentioned before. It would be unfair and there is no point comparing main emotional scene of the movie versus means to an end that were repeated several times through a movie.

Natasha freeing Antonia even if she thought that Antonia will kill her because that would fair was great. What I'm annoyed is a cheap fakeout that went with that. It was just after the bombastic finale with explosions and all the cgi shit. Even without looking at the movie runtime it was obvious there will be no extra fight scene.

In catws it worked because the cgi pew pew extravaganza was a background noise and was part of a continuous fight. In BW helicarriers fell already, there was a second of dust settling and then Nat throws away the shield (uses that capsule). Tension just fell from highest place in a movie (quite literally lol), trying to rise it again for such a short moment just doesn't work.

But that's the general problem with Marvel movies. Bombastic CGI fest as grand finale that probably is "outsourced" and then actual director comes back and needs to end movie super quickly.

disappearing act at the end

So in catws there is mystery of what will Bucky do. We are given some hope since he dragged Steve out of river and visited the museum but thats all. I mean there is this annoying Marvel thing of skipping over the interesting ending of last movie and starting with next plot point. We were hoping for the grand roadtrip/hunt for Bucky but nope. We must run ahead with all the plotlines (same way I'm sure that the Spiderman is Peter Parker and he killed a guy thing will be already dealt with in the beginning of the next movie -.-) But that's bonus mini rant.

In BW they needed to wrap up to many plot lines too quickly so Antonia wakes up and that's all. We don't get a suggestion what she may do. The problem of the chip she still has installed is omitted. There is nothing. She just fucks off to lalaland with other Black Widows the end. Because we needed ending for Nat's actual family which was ok but also kinda rushed.

As I mentioned waaaay before (god, this rant is pretty long) too many hoops to jump through.

Which really sucks because if they added that one flashback scene just for Antonia and spared few more minutes for the overall ending it would work so much more better.

And I even know where they could have saved few minutes (besides the explosions thingies). The supply guy. One extra character in a movie with too many characters. In catws the supply problem (with wings) was solved with nbd shrug. If you wanted to show that Nat has her own web of contacts it should be more than one guy. IDK in Budapest there could be 10 second scene with neighbor saying hi nice to see you again we reinforced the walls after last time. In Norway we could see her visiting some special secret supply stash run by some rando before getting to the mobile home.

But oh she was on the run so that would be too many people. Then cut the people entirely. The shitty helicopter can be worked around with joke that I'm not on speaking terms with Stark rn and that's the best we can have on short notice.

Eh.. side rant again. Sorry.

So to wrap it up. I actually really would love to see what will happen with the loose Black Widows and Antonia because here they were really underdeveloped. And while widows were more of a group hero and we have Yelena as a representative so in a way it balances out but Taskmaster needed so little extra care to make her character so much better and I'm a tiiiiiiny bit salty about it.

#text post #long post #very long rant #black widow #black widow spoilers #black widow movie #black widow 2021 #taskmaster #antonia dreykov #i kinda doubt we will see her again #but one can hope #if anyone actually read through all of this congratz!#and thank you #let me hug you #(and I'm sorry it's so long)

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the-desolated-quill · 3 years

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WandaVision: ‘Subverting’ Good Television - Quill’s Scribbles

(Spoilers for the first five episodes)

Hey everyone! Well... it’s been a while, hasn’t it? The last time I wrote a proper review or Scribble, people still thought the COVID crisis would be over within a month. The poor saps. But I thought that as a special way to mark this year’s Valentines Day, we could take a closer look at the Marvel Cinematic Universe’s shittiest power couple in their new Disney+ show WandaVision.

The first of many MCU spin-off shows that nobody asked for, broadcast exclusively on Disney’s totally unnecessary streaming platform, WandaVision is about everybody’s favourite whitewashed Nazi experiment and her red sexbot boyfriend as they try to fit into a suburban sitcom neighbourhood without arousing suspicion.

Yes, you read that correctly. The MCU has a sitcom now. My life is now complete.

Sarcasm aside, I was legitimately curious about WandaVision because of its unusual setting. And considering one of my most common criticisms of the MCU is its total lack of creativity, anything that’s even a little bit subversive is bound to attract my attention. Of course ‘subversive’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘good.’ I could hand you a canvas smeared with my own shit and call it subversive. That doesn’t necessarily make it good art. And that’s exactly what WandaVision is. A canvas smeared with shit.

So lets split this critical analysis/review/angry bitter rant into two distinct chapters. The first focusing on the plot and setting, and the second focusing on the characters. Okay? Okay.

Chapter 1: Bewitched

Critics seem to be utterly enamoured with the whole sitcom gimmick, and it is a gimmick. As far as I can tell from the episodes I’ve seen, the sitcom setting serves no real purpose whatsoever other than to make the show ‘quirky.’ Which I wouldn’t mind, believe it or not, if the show was actually funny. There’s just one problem. It’s not.

Now in some ways describing why a sitcom doesn’t work is often futile because comedy is largely subjective. What I find funny, you won’t necessarily find funny and vice versa. With WandaVision, however, I won’t have that problem. I can demonstrate to you precisely why WandaVision, objectively, isn’t funny. And it all comes down to one simple thing. The stakes. Or rather the complete and total absence of stakes.

The show makes it very clear from the beginning that none of what we’re seeing is real. The cheesy theme song, the era appropriate special effects (mostly. It’s actually very inconsistent), the joke commercials, and, in the case of the first two episodes, which are in black and white, the appearance of red lights and objects in Scarlet Witch’s general vicinity. (Gee, what a mystery this is).

Basically Wanda has brought Vision back from the dead and created this sitcom world for them to inhabit. I’ll explain the stupidity of this in Chapter 2. The point is none of this is real, and that has a negative effect on the comedy because the very nature of comedy is suffering. Take the plot of the first episode. Wanda and Vision have to prepare a dinner to impress Vision’s boss. If they fail, Vision could lose his job and the couple could be exposed as superheroes. If this were a normal sitcom, it would work. The stakes are clear and it would be satisfying to see the two struggle and overcome the odds. But here, we know it’s not real. If it’s not real, it means there’s no stakes. If there’s no stakes, it means there’s no suffering. If there’s no suffering, there’s no comedy.

It would be one thing if the unfunny sitcom stuff lasted for like the first ten minutes or so before making way for the actual plot, but it doesn’t. Oh no. It doesn’t even last for the first episode. Out of the five episodes I’ve watched, four of them are almost entirely about these unfunny, objectively flawed sitcom homages, each set in a different time period. The fifties, the sixties, and so on. And what’s worse is that nothing that happens in them is plot-relevant. That gets relegated to the last five minutes of an episode. So you’re forced to sit through twenty five minutes of boring slapstick and puns in order to catch even a whiff of actual story. Which begs the question... who is this for exactly? It can’t be entertaining to Marvel fans, who have to slog through all this pointless shit so they can figure out what the fuck is going on. Comedy fans may get a kick out of the sitcom pastiche at first, but after four episodes, surely the joke would wear thin. So why is it in here? Clearly someone in the writer’s room absolutely fell in love with the idea of doing a Marvel sitcom, but nobody put in any time or effort to figure out how it would work in context.

I cannot stress enough how bad the plotting of this series is. As I said, the vast majority of a thirty minute episode is about shitty sitcom plots that aren’t funny and don’t have any impact on the story, only to then tease you with a crumb of actual plot in order to keep you coming back for the next instalment. Admittedly it’s an effective strategy. I was more than ready to quit after Episode 2 until that beekeeper showed up out of the sewer (don’t ask. It’s not important). WandaVision essentially follows the Steven Moffat school of bad writing. String your audience along with the promise that things might get more interesting later on and that all the bullshit that came before will retroactively make sense by the end. Except, as demonstrated with BBC’s Sherlock, that doesn’t work. And even if it did, it wouldn’t justify wasting the audience’s fucking time. And that’s what the majority of WandaVision is. A waste of time.

The only episode that doesn’t follow the sitcom format is the fourth episode. Instead it basically exists to explain all the shit that happened before. The shit that the audience, frankly, are smart enough to figure out for themselves. Wanda created the sitcom world as a way of coping with the loss of Vision, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, we got it. Thanks. It doesn’t advance the plot or anything. It’s just a massive info-dump. But by far the lowest point was when Darcy (by far the most annoying character in the first Thor film and is just as obnoxious here) was sat in front of the TV, watching the sitcom and asking the same questions we were. Not even attempting to look for answers. Just reiterating what the audience is thinking. Like this is an episode of fucking Gogglebox.

In the end it becomes apparent why the series is structured the way that it is. It’s to hoodwink people into subscribing to Disney’s stupid streaming service. If you think about it, there was no reason for WandaVision to be a TV series other than to lure gullible fans in with a piece-meal story buried in a mountain of crap. This isn’t a TV show. It’s what is cynically known in the world of big business executives as ‘content.’ They’re not interested in entertaining the audience. Instead they crave ‘engagement’, which isn’t the same thing. Watching WandaVision is like staring into the void, waiting for something to happen, while Disney charge you for the privilege.

Chapter 2: I Love Lucy

So the plot sucks balls. What about the characters? Surely if Wanda and Vision are likeable at least, it’ll give us something to cling onto.

Well as I was watching the first episode, it suddenly hit me that I couldn’t remember anything that happened to them in previous films. I knew Vision died, but other than that, I couldn’t tell you significant plot details or their personalities or anything. Not a great start.

See, up until now, Vision and Scarlet Witch have been little more than background characters. So already there’s an uphill struggle to get us invested in their relationship, especially considering we haven’t actually seen that relationship develop. In Avengers: Age Of Ultron, Scarlet Witch is killing people because she’s pissed off about Tony Stark killing people (you work that one out) until all of a sudden she stops and joins the good guys because the script said so. Vision meanwhile is introduced as a convenient deus ex machina to beat Ultron and gets no real personality other than he’s a robot. Captain America: Civil War comes the closest to giving Wanda a story and personality of her own as it’s her actions that cause the Sokovia Accords to come into effect, but she never gets any real growth or payoff as the film is heavily focused on Cap and Iron Man’s penis measuring contest. And as for Vision, all he does in the film is accidentally cripple War Machine. No real character or arc there as such. And then we have Avengers: Infinity War, where Wanda and Vision are now sporadically in love and on the run until that pesky Josh Brolin, looking like a CGI cross between Joss Whedon and a grumpy grape, comes along and rips out Vision’s Infinity Stone to power up his golden glove of doom, and the film treats this like a tragic moment, except... it isn’t. Because we haven’t really had the time to properly get to know these characters and see their romance blossom. So instead it just comes off as hollow and forced.

WandaVision has the exact same problem. Apparently Wanda was so distraught about Vision’s death that she broke into a SWORD base, stole his corpse, brought it back from the dead... somehow, and then enslaved an entire town of people to create an idyllic lifestyle for her and her hubby while broadcasting it as a sitcom to the outside world... for some reason. Putting aside the dubious morality of it all, it’s impossible to really sympathise with Wanda or her supposed grief because we’ve barely spent any time with her. Had the Marvel movies taken the time to properly explore the characters and show us their relationship grow and develop, this might have had more emotional resonance. But no, it just happens. In one film they barely speak to each other and in the next they’re a couple. No effort to explore how they feel about each other or any of the problems that may arise trying to date a robot. It just happens and we’re just supposed to care. Well I’m sorry, but I don’t care. You’re going to have to try a little bit harder than that I’m afraid. What’s worse is that, thanks to the whole fake sitcom thing, it’s impossible to really become invested in Wanda and her plight because the show has to constantly keep us at arms length at all times in order to keep up the pretence that this bullshit is somehow mysterious.

Looking through the WandaVision tag, it amuses me how many people say that she’s acting out of character. And yeah, her actions are a bit of a head scratcher. Why would an Eastern European’s ideal life be an American sitcom? Why a sitcom? Why kidnap an entire town? Why keep changing the decade? None of it makes sense, but you’re wrong for thinking that Wanda is behaving out of character for the simple reason that Wanda has never actually had a character. In fact, ironically, Wanda mind controlling an entire town and forcing them to do her bidding is probably the one consistent thing about her as she did this in Age Of Ultron. In interviews, Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany described how they used actors like Elizabeth Montgomery and Dick Van Dyke as influences, which is really funny because they’re straight up admitting they don’t have characters and even now they’re still not playing the characters, instead emulating the work of far better actors.

As I was watching the show, it became abundantly clear that not only do Marvel not have the faintest idea what they wanted to do with these characters, but they also straight up don’t give a shit about these characters. Wanda in particular has had a rough time under the tyrannical regime of the House of Mouse. First they cast Elizabeth Olsen, a white woman, to play a Romani character, then systematically erasing her Jewish roots, even going so far as to put a cross in her bedroom in Civil War, and now the character is being butchered even more by forcing her into an American sitcom housewife role that she apparently willingly chose for herself, which is laughable. I mean say what you like about Magneto in the X-Men films, at least they actually depicted his Jewish culture. At least they recognised his Jewish background was important (though not important enough to cast a Jewish actor apparently). Wanda’s steady cultural erasure over the years is incredibly insidious and judging by Olsen’s comments in interviews, where she called Wanda’s comic book outfit a quote ‘gypsy thing’ unquote, it seems nobody has an ounce of fucking respect for the character or the culture she’s supposed to be representing. (and to all those kissing her arse saying it was a slip of the tongue, she has been repeatedly called out for using the slur in the past, so at this point I’d describe her behaviour as wilful ignorance)

If you want further proof of how much Marvel doesn’t seem to care about Wanda, look no further than her brother Pietro, aka Quicksilver. At the end of Episode 5, Wanda brings Pietro back from the dead, except it’s not Pietro. It’s Peter Maximoff, the Quicksilver from the X-Men films played by Peter Evans, who coincidentally is not Jewish or Romani either. So Quicksilver has the dubious honour of not only being whitewashed three times, but also twice within the same franchise. But should we really be surprised at this point? It’s Marvel after all. The same company that whitewashed the Ancient One in Doctor Yellowface and claimed it wasn’t racist because Tilda Swinton is ‘Celtic’. But now I’m going off topic. My point is that this isn’t a simple case of recasting an actor like Mark Ruffalo replacing Edward Norton as the Hulk. WandaVision actually acknowledges the recast in-universe, which makes no sense. Why would Wanda bring back her brother, only to make him look like a different person? We the audience may be familiar with this version of Quicksilver, but she isn’t. That would be like me bringing my Grandad back to life and making him look like Ian McKellen. He’d be perfectly charming, I’m sure, but he wouldn’t be my Grandad.

If Marvel really cared about the characters or narrative consistency, they would have brought Aaron Taylor Johnson back. Instead, now they have absorbed 20th Century Fox into the hellish Disney abyss, they use X-Men’s Quicksilver as a means to keep viewers from switching off and so that people will write stupid articles and think pieces about whether the rest of the X-Men will show up in the MCU. It’s like dangling your keys in front of a toddler’s face to distract them from the rotting corpse of a raccoon lying face down in the corner of the room.

And it’s here where I decided to stop watching the show because fuck Disney.

Epilogue: One Foot In The Grave

You know, I am sick and tired of the so called ‘professional’ critics bending over backwards to praise these god awful films and shows when it’s so clear to anyone with a functioning brain cell how bad they truly are. WandaVision is without a doubt one of the most cynically produced and poorly structured TV shows I’ve ever seen. Its riffs on classic sitcoms are pointless and self-indulgent, the writing is terrible, the characters are unlikable and unsympathetic, and it’s entirely emblematic of what the entire MCU has become of late. And it’s only going to get worse as Disney drowns us with more ‘content’ to keep the plebs ‘engaged’. In short; pathetic.

#anti wandavision #anti marvel #anti mcu #anti disney #quill's scribbles

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worstloki · 3 years

Note

please read the article 'How White Fandom is Colonizing "Character-Coding"' by Shafira Jordan and quit while you're ahead

Okay, so I read it and see the problem, and I’ll try to address all their points in order because I don’t wholly agree with the article. I know it’s a lot to read so I’ve put tldr; sections at the end of each :)

Misusing the Term Reinforces Negative Stereotypes for Marginalized People

The article essentially argues that labeling characters which are villainous as POC-coded is bad because they’re not morally pure and doing so "reinforces the idea that people of color are naturally dangerous and not to be trusted.”

Which is fair as you don’t want all the representation to be of ‘bad’ characters, but I also don’t believe all representative characters have to be ‘good’ either as it would be equally racist to divide good/bad in such a way. Not that I would place Loki under ‘bad’ to begin with, but arguing that characters shouldn’t be labelled as POC-coded for reasons unrelated to what’s presented in the narrative or because they did bad things is :/ even if lack of good representation is a prevalent issue in current Western and influenced media.

Ideally there should be a range of representative characters that fall into ‘good’, ‘bad’, and ‘anywhere in-between’ because variety and complexity in character types should, in theory, be treated as common practice (which can only happen with a multitude of representation!).

And a bit unrelated but... within the fictional context of Thor 1, all the Jotnar (sans Loki) are presented to the audience as ‘bad’ by default. They desperately want to get their Casket back to the point of attempting stealing it (from the ‘good’ characters), they fight the heroes and even when the gang and Thor (’good’ characters) are enjoying or going overboard with taking lives it’s inconsequential, Laufey wants to kill the opposing king (who just happens to be a ‘good’ character) and will resort to low-handed methods to do so, etc. The narrative itself is from the frame of reference of the ‘good’ and we only see warriors of Jotunheim though so we understand why it’s like this, because regardless of their race/experiences the narrative carries, even if it most definitely would be seen as racist from our real-life perspectives if the ‘monstrous’ race were presented by actual people of colour, even if it would make sense for the people on on different realms living in different environments to be different from each other, and realistic even for that to be the root of some conflict.

tldr; not using a specific label to prevent negative presentations of the characters seems a bit strange to do when the coding would be based off the text, but with limited representation available I see why it would be done, even if I still believe minority-coding is free game to expand/interpret.

Improperly Labeling a Character as “POC-coded” Suggests the Experiences of All People of Color are the Same

The article argues that labeling Loki as POC-coded “suggests that all people of color have the same experiences, when in reality, people of color come from different places, have different cultures, and have different traditions.” And while it’s true that the term doesn’t go into detail about which particular experiences (and these experiences can vary vastly due to diversity!) the appropriate measure would be to remove the umbrella term POC altogether as people of colour tend to also vary. But that’s also exactly why it’s an all-encompassing general term? It’s a way to denote anyone who isn’t “white” and has the associated cultural privilege that comes with the concept of white supremacy.

And, obviously, in the fictional setting presented, the concept of white supremacy is not prodded at, but cultural supremacy is definitely one that makes recurring appearances, right next to the parts about Asgard being a realm built on imperialism with ongoing colonial practice.

My take on this is that Loki’s narrative features a struggle with identity after finding out he’s of a different race and was being treated differently his entire life and being Jotun was presumably a part of the reasoning even if he didn’t know it. He’s basically treated as of less worth for inherently existing differently. I do believe that racism is a common-enough POC experience, but that while Loki was born with blue skin he passes/appears white which is why I don’t say that Loki is a POC, just that he has been coded/can be interpreted this way.

There’s also the entire thing with Loki trying to fit in and prove he belongs by trying to fit the theory and be The Most Asgardian by committing genocide (which ultimately makes no difference as he’s still not the ‘acceptable’ version of Asgardian), and the denial/rejection of his birth culture in destructively lashing out towards them (which even Thor is confused by because Loki isn’t typically violent), and the fact his self worth plummets and he is passively suicidal upon finding out he’s Jotun (internalized racism? general drop in self-worth after finding out he’s adopted and has been lied to? Bit of both?), but what do I know, I’m sure none of those are, at their base, common experiences or relatable feelings for anyone or decent rep because we see such themes on-screen presented wonderfully in different lights all the time.

tldr; every set of experiences could be different, some types of discrimination could overlap, if you limit an umbrella term to only very specific circumstances then it’s no longer an umbrella term.

Suggesting that White Characters are Meant to be Seen as People of Color Ignores the Actual Characters of Color that are Present in these Stories

I don’t agree with most of this section, but that may just be the way the arguments are put together, which I don’t blame the author for.

“ Implying that Loki is a person of color completely ignores Heimdall and Hogun, the only Black and Asian Asgardians who appear in the movie. ”

Characters such as Hogun and Heimdall which are played by actual people of colour have smaller roles in the films and any prejudice they could face for being POC in-universe isn’t made apparent, while Loki at the very least comes to the realization that something he couldn’t change (race, parentage,) was having him treated differently his whole life and had to come to terms with it. The Vanir/Aesir are also both treated similarly on-screen, and Heimdall having dark skin isn’t plot relevant, whereas Jotnar are treated as lesser consistently and are relevant through the movie (breaking into the vault, Thor and co. attack Jotunheim, Loki’s deal with Laufey, the attempted regicide (and the successful one XD), destroying jotunheim, Loki saying he’s not Thor’s brother,).

I also see including characters as POC-coded as... more representation? In all canon-compliant interpretations of the characters Hogun being Vanir is always explicitly mentioned because it’s a fact that just is, up to the appearance and even the world-building of Vanaheim in some fanworks use particularly East Asian culture as inspiration. I have never come across a Marvel fandom Heimdall interpretation where he’s not Black... but because these characters are more minor/side-characters of course they get less attention!

“ In Loki’s fandom, Heimdall’s name sometimes gets thrown in to suggest that it was he all along who was the real villain due to his “racism” against Loki and the rest of the Jotun. It is, of course, ironic to suggest that somehow the only Black Asgardian to appear in the movie can oppress the privileged white prince. “

I... don’t know where to start with this. But the example of theorizing given in the article wasn’t suggesting Heimdall was bad or trying to explain his actions in Thor 1 by saying he is Black... and just looking at a character’s actions shouldn’t be done less or more critically because of skin tone in my opinion. Heimdall may have been trying to do what was best and protect the realm but if the audience didn’t know that Loki was up to dodgy things then the coding would be switched around because he was trying to spy and committed treason and then tried to kill Loki. People... can hold feelings towards others... regardless of skin... and suspect them... for reasons other than skin... although I do still have questions about whether Heimdall knew Loki was Jotun or not. (Even if I personally don’t think it’d make a difference to how he’d treat Loki?)

Some Loki fans have also suggested that because Jotuns have blue skin that this alone makes him a person of color (even if the audience is only allowed to see Loki in his true Jotun form for mere seconds of screentime). This, again, shows a lack of understanding when it comes to race. It doesn’t matter what skin color the Jotuns have.

Race can differentiate between physical and/or behavioural characteristics!! Not being blue all the time doesn’t make him any less Jotun!! He’s got internalized stuff to work through and is used to being Aesir!! At least 1 parent is Jotun so even if Loki was passing as Aesir he’s probably Jotun!! (I don’t know how magic space genetics work for sure but Loki being Jotun was an entire very important jump-starting point in Thor 1!!). It’s a fantasy text and typically things like having different coloured skin indicates a different race or is sometimes if a species has multiple then is just considered a skin colour. That’s how coding works!! The Jotnar are very specifically the only race we see in the movie with a skin-tone not within the ‘normal’ human range, which alienates them to the audience from the get-go!! They’re an “other” and on the opposite side to the ‘good’ characters.

Both Loki and his birth father, Laufey (Colm Feore), are played by white men, and it is impossible for a white man to successfully play a character of color.

The specification of men here bothers me, but yes, you don’t get ‘white’ people to play characters of colour if it can be avoided. (And it can be avoided.)

This also connects with the previous point made that people of color come from various places. There is nothing specifically about the Jotun that could be traced to any specific person of color, and even if there were, there would be no way for white men to portray them without being disrespectful.

This is where arguments about the definition of coding and how specificity/generalizations and do/don’t come in. I know I’m subjective and lean towards the more rep the better, but while I agree ‘white’ people wouldn’t be able to respectfully play a POC I don’t think that rule should have to carry over into fantasy-based fiction. I know texts reflect on reality and reality can reflect within texts, but if contextually there is racial discrimination and there are similar ideas which resonate with the audience’s own experiences I’d say it’s coded well enough to allow that.

tldr; Thor 1′s narrative revolves mainly around Thor and Loki, of which race is kinda kinda a significant theme in Loki’s part of the story. Not so much explored with less-developed side characters such as Heimdall and Hogun, even though their actors are actual people of colour.

How Much of this is Really Well-Intentioned?

In the fantasy space viking world Heimdall and Hogun don’t face any on-screen prejudice and their appearance is not mentioned (which is nice, for sure! good to have casual rep!) but adding on to the roles they play in the narrative the explicit fantasy-racism in the movie isn't aimed at Asian/Black characters, but towards the Humans -to a lesser extent- and the Jotnar, including Loki, who only just found out he comes under that bracket.

The article mentions how fandom space toxicity often “reaches the actors who portray the characters,“ which is true, and it’s shameful that people have to justify their roles or presences are harassed for the pettiest things like skin tone/cultural background, but I don’t see coding characters as removing the spotlight from interesting characters such as those which are actually POC, rather expressing a demand for more rep, since well-written complex characters which are diverse are often absent/minor enough in the media, and therefore can get easily brushed aside in both canon and fandom spaces.

tldr; It’s obviously not a replacement for actual representation, but, if a character is marginalized and can be interpreted as coded, even if they would only be considered so within the context of the textual landscape, I don’t see why spreading awareness through exploring the coding as a possibility for the character shouldn’t be done, even if the media is being presented by people who are ‘white’ or privileged or may not fall into the categories themselves, as long as it’s done respectfully to those it could explicitly represent.

#please don’t patronize me by asking to quit while i’m ahead #it doesn't help anyone #so anyway i've summarized my opinion on the coding thing here for the many anons whose answers could be answered in this ask alone #i think i covered everything?#the article started out okay but I found it kinda :/ in places even though there were valid concerns #I do believe that in-universe context and creators of the media should be taken into account #and that if marginalized themes can be touched on by non-marginalized groups then... great? fictional texts can help people understand #i do also think that rep being presented should if not on-screen have people working on the product to support and ensure it's done well #the world is cold and harsh and cruel and i just wanted a desi Loki AU but here we are #I've got to try and summarize how I think Thor 1 presents Loki's part of the narrative well with POC-coding there because of fantasy-racism #even if the POC-coding is ignored the themes of racism are far too apparent to ignore #loki spends the entire film being a multi-dimensional character and having an entire downfall fueled by grief and a desire to be loved #I don't think attaching a label to such a character would be a negative thing... but perhaps for casual watchers it'd be a bit :/#apparently not everyone takes into account the 1000+ years of good behavior around that 1 year of betrayal/breakdown/identity crisis/torture #MetaAnalysisForTheWin #MAFTW #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #AgreeToDisagreeOrNot #ATDON #poc-coding #yes i ignored everything not about loki in the article what about it #hmmm I know people are going to disagree with me with what should and shouldn't be allowed #I know some people are okay with it but some don't like the poc-coding thing #and that's fine #completely understandable #makes me uncomfy to talk about fictional space racism in comparison to real life but I do think that lack of rep is why coding is important #for some people coding is all that they get #but also!! @ifihadmypickofwishes suggested the term racial allegory and I do believe that is also suitable here!! so I’ll try using that too #rather than poc-coding even though I still believe it applies

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veliseraptor · 3 years

Text

got tagged for two fic writer memes yesterday! the one from @ameliarating first:

How many works do you have on AO3?

509.

What’s your total AO3 word count?

3,432,24. dang! that’s a lot of words

How many fandoms have you written for and what are they?

I have written for...counting the MCU as one fandom, on AO3 I have written for 32 fandoms, including at least one work in:

MCU, The Sillmarillion, Caliban Leandros, both DC and Marvel Comics, the book Barebacked by Kit Whitfield, Doctrine of Labyrinths, Doctor Who, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Star Wars, Black Jewels, Dragon Age, Lucifer, Dexter, Temeraire, Gentleman Bastard Sequence, Supernatural, A Song of Ice and Fire, Greek Mythology, Lymond Chronicles, Merlin BBC, Code Geass, Good Omens, Death Note, and White Collar.

this is not a comprehensive list of every fandom I’ve ever written for, because it is not including ones that live only on FFN or Livejournal.

What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

Life In Reverse tops the list (11066), aka my 200k Loki-centric post-Thor AU fic that I wrote between 2012 and 2018 and with which I have a decidedly complex relationship at this point. I love it but also I no longer think it’s my best work but also I credit it with teaching me a fuck of a lot about writing and writing longer projects in general.

With Absolute Splendor is rapidly catching up, to my astonishment (6559), despite having been posted for less than half as long. Aka the wedding planning fic that’s really just me mucking about in my Jiang Cheng and my Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian feelings, at length.

some good mistakes (4618) was my first foray into the Untamed version of “characters who hate each other going on resentful roadtrips together, feat. Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng.” I have gone on to write others and will continue to write more.

Unraveling (3069) is a little bit of a surprise but also not - it was originally just sort of WWP stuff for my ‘what if people remembered that blunt force trauma is a really bad thing actually’ problem that pops up sometimes, re: Loki at the end of The Avengers, and then it kind of turned into a whole thing. I personally think it’s the weakest of the installments of the series it belongs to, but it is the first one and also the one that gets least into the broader family dysfunction and depression stuff that probably is less everyone’s thing (but is what came out this fic that mattered more to me, personally).

I am a little surprised to see Steve Rogers’ Halfway House for Notorious Supervillains (3068) here too! I was expecting one of the more...idk, mainstream concepts from the MCU to win out? But I also wasn’t expecting two Untamed fics to make it here, either. But I am stupid proud of this fic even if it is very extraordinarily unfinished. This is one of those unfinished fics that will nag at me unless and until I finish it, at least a little, because the concept - if I do say so myself - is so goddamn good and I think I was executing it pretty well, too.

Do you respond to comments, why or why not?

Pretty much never. I was never very good at it and now I’d feel like I had to go back and reply to all of them and I just. I can’t do that. and when I do try to just start at the beginning I get overwhelmed very fast and start avoiding it.

Basically I decided that if it’s a decision between wrestling with myself to reply to comments versus actually doing more writing I’m going to end up landing on the latter as feeling both more doable and more productive.

What’s the fic you’ve written with the angstiest ending?

probably it’s The Worlds Forgotten, the Words Forbidden for sheer level of “so then what was the point” of it all. but like. I’ve definitely written a few extraordinarily miserable fics, and by “a few” I kind of mean “a lot.” Other nominees I’d put down might be nor autumn falter (for currently personally making me suffer most), once there was a way to get back home (for I think having the ouchiest summary), and Waiting for the Summer Rain (which remains one of my personal favorite Supernatural fics I wrote).

but like. there are 43 fics I have marked with Major Character Death warnings and every single one of those, pretty much, has a downer ending.

Do you write crossovers? If so, what is the craziest one you’ve written?

I have written several though not in a long time! My craziest probably remains the Morgoth/Cthulhu short I wrote that actually got sporked because someone took it seriously (???) enough to do that. But the craziest that actually has any merit, (I’d argue) is probably the Maeglin/Viserys one.

not linking to either, if you want to go find them I don’t think it’ll be that hard.

Have you ever received hate on a fic?

Yeah, a few times on a few different things. More if you count “people who seem to like the fic but love telling you how much they hate the female characters you’re writing about in it” as ‘hate’ which I would but isn’t, you know, quite as straightforward. If I had a nickel for every time someone bitched about Jane in Life in Reverse, though...lots of nickels.

Do you write smut? if so what kind?

Sure do! But what does ‘what kind’ mean, I don’t know how to answer that question. I feel tempted to just put in my “Mike’s Hard Kinks” image edit in this space.

I guess usually I tend to write smut that at least involves a little bit of a kink? I don’t think I’d feel comfortable writing entirely kinkless smut. I think I’d feel weird about it, the same way I do when I write really nice fic, generally.

Have you ever had a fic stolen?

I think I did back when but I don’t remember anything about it. I feel like it was one of those mass data scraping things where my fic happened to be among those caught up in it.

Have you ever had a fic translated?

I have! several actually, mostly into Russian and Chinese. every time it happens I’m immensely flattered that someone wants to put in that kind of work on something I wrote.

Have you ever co-written a fic before?

I think I’d be very, very bad at it.

What’s your all time favorite ship?

Depends on when you ask me! I could probably give you a top five but then I’d remember six that I forgot to mention five minutes later. I guess if I were to think about ships that feel like they hold very special particular places in my heart... Xue Yang/Xiao Xingchen, Steve Rogers/Loki, and Min/Rand come to mind.

What’s a WIP that you want to finish but don’t think you ever will?

oh god do you want the whole list cause honestly I could just like. screencap the entirety of my “in progress” folder with a crying emoji watermarked over it. and that’s not getting into the fics that are like...half formed babies in my consciousness but not anywhere on paper.

and also I just hate to admit that I might not finish something.

you know what? the Lucifer/Good Omens crossover I started would’ve been a lot of fun. I’m probably never going to finish it, but it would’ve been great if I had. I know other people did it too but my contribution could’ve been amazing.

I can say this very boldly with the near certainty that I’m not going to finish the fic so no one will be able to disagree.

(...also the Last Herald-Mage fix it. that was going to be a good fic too, and also will probably languish unfinished forever.)

What are your writing strengths?

I’m pretty sure dialogue is my strongest point. Dialogue and emotions, which is why I always end up just wanting to write about characters talking and having feelings at each other.

What are your writing weaknesses?

Writing action sequences throws me into conniptions every time I have to do it and I will take drastic actions sometimes to avoid doing it at all, which probably weakens the work as a whole.

Also, I don’t plan ahead and this means I write myself into corners kind of a lot. If I wasn’t writing long, dense fic it wouldn’t be a problem but here we are.

What are your thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages in a fic?

I tend to avoid it unless it’s in the context of, as in CQL/MDZS fic, leaving certain terminology untranslated. I’m pretty sure I almost never write full exchanges of dialogue in a different language than I’m using for the narration within a fic, and generally speaking my reaction to other people doing it is at least mildly negative.

What was the first fandom you wrote for?

Harry Potter was technically the first fandom I wrote for, but it was a crack fic I wrote to make my friends laugh more than anything; I tend to count Wheel of Time as my first actual fandom for which I wrote my first actual fic.

What’s your favorite fic you’ve written?

some days the answer is “all of them” and some day the answer is “I don’t like anything I’ve written in my entire life” and I never like giving this a definitive answer. yesterday I reread efforts in a common cause (the bound copy!! thanks @spockandawe) and you know what, that was a good fic and I’m proud of it, so I’m going with that one, for this meme, today.

tagging: @mostfacinorous, @jaggedcliffs, @silvysartfulness, @mikkeneko, @kasasagi-eye, @curiosity-killed, how many people am I supposed to tag for this one anyway

#lise memes #confessions of a frustrated writer

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1990jeevas · 3 years

Note

Plesse tell me about queerness in the get down!!

okay okay queerness in the get down let's fuckn goooo

disclaimer: I havent watched this show in full for like 5 months at least, probably gonna get something wrong and/or forget some more important bits. also this wasnt proof read I just word vomited

tws: period typical homophobia, abuse mention, f slur use, bury your gays trope, overdose mention, mention of a creepy possible age gap (the age gap hasnt been confirmed so that's why its possible), cops

going from least to most prominent queer characters, let's start with mylene cruz!

so, from the beginning of this show she has an established romantic relationship with ezekiel (although the status of their actual relationship changes frequently throughout the show) and though this was a relationship she was hesitant to pursue, it is clear that she does have romantic feelings for him and if not for them both having growing careers in very different music genres (zeke specifically working in a genre that she repeatedly labels as bad because she thinks they're ruining records + that it isnt real music because they're using someone elses piece and rapping over it, that's not really important here tho lol) they probably wouldve had a much healthier, smooth sailing romance. that being said theres a few things that happen in the show that, while not explicitly clear, or even really good coding at that—to the point where you wont catch if you really arent looking for it (and trust me, I always look for coding, hers was just so little that it flew over my head until I saw someone else mention it)—are still cool to think about!

so, for starters, I wanna mention the toy box performance, which was performed by mylene and regina, who are best friends. that's all cool and shit, and you dont really think much about it...until you hear about the fact that the show runners purposely colored a lot of the scenes in that performance with the bi colors. like. the writers after the show ended basically said "oh yeah there was plans to make her coding more explicit, but our shit got cancelled soooo" and then dropped the fact that she was gonna be bi (or at least implies bi) in the series, which puts a new twist on a few things.

now, besides the bi coloring in the background of the toy box performance (which was mostly on scenes with her and regina, which involved a lot of uh,, lowkey lewd dancing. with each other. in very revealing outfits. wooooo), there's her music! I dont tend to read too much into this one bc, like I said before, her coding is fucking light and the writers themselves said they didnt really get to do much with it, but I think some stuff with her music is interesting. specifically how her, yolanda and regina's song set me free blew up because dizzee, resident (lowkey enby coded) bicon, got their song played in a queer club. also that the song was majorly important to dizzee and started playing literally right as he kissed a boy for the first time and realized "oh shit I like boys that's bonkers". also that the song can be taken in a gay way since literally the entire thing is about becoming your true self, fully and unapologetically, which is what both dizzee and mylene's entire character arcs are about. dizzee (and a lot of other queer people, apparently), heard this song about being set free and it resonated with them so much that they got that shit most of its popularity.

speaking of dizzee and mylene, they parallel each other a lot in the way that their arcs are about them realizing who they are, coming into themselves and no longer just letting people treat them like shit in a sense (dizzee starting to tell people essentially that they can call him weird all they want, they can make fun of how he acts, what he likes, how he dresses, etc. but he likes how he is and quite literally saying "it's okay to be an alien" as he has consistently compared himself to one throughout the show vs mylene learning that if she wants to be a disco singer she needs to put her foot down, not let anyone, not even the love of her life, not even her abusive father, stop her from achieving her dreams, etc. and continuing to pursue her career with or without their support). one more little parallel that I think is interesting is during I think s2 towards the end of the show is when dizzee and thor are shown together having fun with each other, painting all over the building and each other and are basically just being happy and in love together and then they have these clips of them being interspersed with clips of mylene at a party where she is starting to realize that if she wants to get anywhere she needs to be her own main priority and that she needs to put her career and her dream, which is what makes her the happiest, above all else if she wants to succeed. idk I just think how the show made these two into a weird parallel, accidental or not, is neat. maybe not an explicitly queer parallel, but I think at least how her music and whatnot helped dizzee, the main queer character in this show, blossom, is important.

moving on we got shaolin fantastic also known as "oh no your internalized homophobia is showing-"

so, heres a quick list of...interesting shao facts:

Consistently referred to as fag/faggot (shaolin fanfaggot is my personal favorite); he gets really defensive about this despite nobody actually thinking he's queer, it's just people being assholes to be assholes, and he is the only character consistently referred to using a slur, especially a homophobic one, especially for a "straight" character. dizzee, a canonically queer character, is called a fag less than shaolin is even though dizzee actively goes to gay clubs, has a not so secret dude he "hangs out with" and wont let anyone properly meet, paints his nails, wears less than straight clothes even by the 70s standards and is just all around the definition of fucking queer (and I mean like in the weird way, not the gay way). in fact theres only like once I can remember him being called a fag and it had nothing to do with him actually being gay it was literally just like thrown out there the same way you would call someone a bitch.

Has only shown sexual interest in women, yet refuses to have deeper relationships with women in general (possibly because of trauma but who knows) but takes his relationships with his "brothers", specifically zeke, very seriously

Tells zeke and zeke ONLY his real name when zeke was planning to stop being his friend bc shao more or less got boo boo, a like 14 year old black kid, arrested for selling hard drugs; he was clearly scared and trying to do anything to keep zeke around, literally chasing him down the street and hounding him until he got zeke to stop and argue with him

Kept threatening to beat up zeke in the end but couldn't actually bring himself to do so, instead saying that zeke is "fucking lucky" before walking away

Let's zeke get away with things that nobody else can, in general just has a weird soft spot for ezekiel that he shows with nobody else

when shao found dizzee with thor in a vaguely compromising situation (like they were just shirtless covered in paint sleeping next to each other but shao had also seen everything they painted on the walls ((which some of it was sus)), it was clear they had painted on each others bodies and dizzee had been routinely disappearing with this guy for weeks now yet not producing nearly as much art, at least, as far as we audience members know) he didnt judge him but instead, waited for him to get cleaned up and then told him something along the lines of "theres a reason why im so secretive blah blah blah [not everyone needs to know everything about me]", which, in context, kinda implies that he might be a lil. a lil homiesexual. jus a lil.

whenever even the possibility of zeke leaving him comes up he absolutely loses it. he has literally cost ezekiel life changing opportunities because he thought zeke would just up and leave him for them. this could be abandonment issues bc he's a severely traumatized character, and that probably does contribute to it, but it also is just not a reaction he has to any of their other friends just randomly dipping in and out of his life soooooo

generally speaking, this mfer has got either bisexual with a big hard on for zeke coding or homosexual with terrible internalized homophobia and still a hard on for zeke coding. either fucking way, that nigga gay. he gay as hell. gay as fuck man. there wasn't really much to analyze here tbh bc the coding is just so fucking obvious if you look for it or you are/have been a gay person who's dealt with at least a little bit of internalized homophobia.

also, just a sidenote, idk how fucking old shao, but I'm praying hes like at max 19 bc I'm pretty sure zeke is a minor in this show and shao definetly is not so the whole him being heavily implied to have a crush on ezekiel thing is kinda. oof. not oof if zeke is like 17 but any younger than that? OOF.

edit: apparently the characters are only supposed to be a year apart in age but i had no clue about that before writing this post and since shaos age was never actually stated in the show i naturally assumed he was an adult since his actor Looks Like An Adult. this is definetly on me to a certain extent, but i also never saw anything about this when trying to find our their ages so 🤷‍♀️ maybe i just didnt look deep enough, sorry!

now moving on to the main event...marcus dizzee kipling :]

so, first things first, let's talk enby coding bc him being bisexual was already confirmed!

um, to start off, I just wanna say I dont think this enby coding was intentional or even really coding, it's just moreso me being a dizzee kin on main and knowing as a transmasc enby he has very transmasc enby vibes. for example:

cool, gender neutral nickname that everyone calls him

paints nails various different colors

the whole wardrobe is just a transmasc enby heaven...fishnet shirts, jean overalls, jackets and cuffed pants galore, the big colorful pins, etc

gender neutral hairstyle (when I had my fro it was very sexy and made it easy to transition between hyper masc and vaguely fem, which is pog)

comparing himself to/representing himself consistently with an alien character (though this is meant to represent his sexuality, it could also double as a gender thing too, not neccesarily bc of the whole nonbinary alien trope but bc an enby who likes aliens might heavily identify or compare themselves to whatever their idea of an alien is, whether that just be a genderless entity or a motherfucker with fly style and no need to be perceived as anything other Wacky As Hell)

moving on from there, let's talk about how his queerness is presented to us and how, while it may be a really good piece of representation, especially coming from netflix, it still lacks in A Lot of places.

so, let's start with good things!

i personally really like the get down's queer rep with dizzee bc it's (for the most part) nonsexualized and very very soft, about dizzee figuring himself out and realizing there is a place where he fits in, and about two teenagers in the 70s falling in love over their shared passion for street art. it also features an interracial couple where both boys challenge stereotypes both about queer men and men of color, which is epic poggers and very sexy. this piece of rep specifically is very important to me bc I am a queer black person and even tho interracial relationships are mostly normalized now, I've still had people give me shit for primarily dating white people in a town that is...primarily white lol

mm anyways, I can also appreciate how in the get down, dizzee being represented by rumi the alien is not a thing specifically related to gender (as it often is) and instead is about his sexuality and just in general weirdness and how it has led to him being alienated amongst his peers, poc or otherwise. him seeing himself as an alien is not about just his queerness, which is important, it is about him being a queer black man who talks different, acts different, dresses different and is "soft"—he isnt a walking black male stereotype and he wouldnt have been seen as masculine back in the 70s by any stretch of the imagination. this can be relatable to a wide spectrum of queer poc, from queer black men currently who still have to deal with this shit or to people like myself who are afab neurodivergent mixed race enbies that have always been signaled out as weird and alienated for it. dizzee is god rep bc while he has a small part in this show, his parts are very impactful, hard hitting and show queer poc of all ages that they arent alone and that it's okay to "weird", you just need to embrace it because somebody will love you for you, as thor did for dizzee.

that being said theres um. some minor problemas here,,,

namely:

dizzee and thors first kiss

the lack of development this pairing got

the way dizzee was confirmed bisexual off screen, he never said the words himself, just showed interest in both genders

the way dizzee and thor were never even confirmed boyfriends or just fwb so most of the fandom just calls them boyfriends bc Why Not

dizzee was implied fucking DEAD??? AT THE END OF THE SERIES?????? AND THOR WAS IMPLIED ARRESTED?????????????

now, these might have been things that wouldve been fine had the show been given it's full run but it wasnt which is why we are now left with probelms.

so, from the top, let's go over these: dizzee and thor's first (and only "on screen") kiss was one that was shown in a montage of other queer people making over and doing other vaguely romantic/sexual things, one of those things being a whole ass naked titty being mouthed at, but the actual kiss...was just not shown? like they really did just say "yes they kissed <3 you know this from the context clues of it being in a montage with kissing, hickey giving and titty sucking <3 but no we will not show it <3" LIKE HELLO? I SAW A NAKED BOOBIE BUT NOT TWO MEN KISS??? HUH????????

also, dizzee and thor were both fucking high as hell during this bit like this isnt a terrible thing but it's also like sometimes you do shit when you're high that you wouldnt do sober and they just never kissed again on screen so like?? like idk that's not that bad but it does kinda irk me since they deadass got no other on screen intimacy after that unless you including painting on eacher other or sleeping next to each other on a shitty mattress but not touching at all during it bc they were both at opposite ends of the mattress like half way off it

so yeah, that was trash. then we got lack of development, which kinda goes with the "dizzee being a bisexual but he never says it in canon" thing cause like...okay dizzee was already sort of a side character from the get go like he wasnt the mc by any means, but he became way more of a background character as things continued until we basically only saw him for performances or when he was with thor, yet they got no fucking development as a pairing other than "dizzee realize he gay, he like thor, he and thor spend time together and ig probably do some gay stuff but we dont really know bc we only ever see them do graffiti together now" like?? tf am I supposed to do with that shit. answer. quickly. and then theres dizzee not being confirmed bisexual, which is just a running problem with shows literally doing everything to say a character is bi except for having the character just...say they're bi? which would be so easy? like a good way dizzee and thor couldve had some development is by thor teaching dizzee things about the queer community that he didnt even know existed, thor couldve helped him understand what being bi meant and helped him label himself and whatnot but instead we got an off screen confirmation that the writers had bisexual in mind when writing him. which is garbagé.

the whole thor and dizzee never having a confirmed relationship status is also a development problem cause like literally nobody knows if they were just friends who made out, maybe fucked, who knows, or if they were dating bc dizzee does give a love confession but a love confession doesn't mean there is a relationship, especially since thor didn't say he was in love either (as far as I remember, I could be wrong, plus whether or not that really happened or was apart of dizzee literally overdosing during a performance is unclear so 🤪)

and now for the biggest issue...bury your gays trope.

during the season 2 finale, dizzee and thor are chased by cops after they are found doing graffiti, one of the cops is able to catch thor while the other chases dizzee into a train tunnel and there is a train seen headed straight for him before the show cuts to black on a train horn. the show writers claim that if they had gotten another season, dizzee wouldve been alive but since they didnt and since that's essentially super fan trivia knowledge, most people dont fucking know that and instead had to watch a black queer teenager chose death over being fucking arrested by a white cop. on top of that, thor didnt see any of that shit because he was caught and the cop started hauling him off while dizzee was still being chased so thor literally has no clue where his friend/possible boyfriend fucking is or that he's likely dead in a goddamn tunnel all alone, unless you count the fucking pig that chased him in there who wouldve died too. this shows rep was so fucking good as far as most shows go on not having major fucking problems, on not being toxic and over sexualized, etc, etc. and then they just. killed a black queer teenager for no fucking reason. like it was literally the last episode ever, it would add nothing to the plot, it would just devastate fans and devastate it fucking did. I dont cry easy but seeing a character I identified with, who I had hyperfixated on, die because he'd rather that than be arrested is terrible. it fucking sucked.

so yeah. that's my all too extensive thoughts/analysis on the get down's queerness. theres definitely stuff I missed, or misinterpreted, or looked too much into, etc, etc., but this was a fun thing to spend time writing sooo yeah!! thanks for the ask anon, sorry this was just a big rambley info dump, but hopefully you get some enjoyment out of it since it took like 3 hours at least 😭😭 feel free to ask clarifying questions lol

#shit self #asks #the get down #mylene cruz #shaolin fantastic #dizzee kipling #long post #analysis #info dump #idk if anon has seen tgd or is just being nice so i tried givinh background to things #kinz #bangerz #discourse

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