#I HAVE ALWAYS HATED THIS STORY FOR THE MISCHARACTERISATION

[hinsaa-paramo-dharma]

I just watched Luv Kush: the warrior twins and MY LOVE FOR THIS MOVIE WENT OFF THE CHARTS WHEN I HEARD RAM JI'S VOICE

#THEY CASTED ARUN GOVIL AS RAM JIII #PLEASE THAT WAS SO GENIUS #LEGEND OF PRINCE RAMA AUR AB YEH BHI??? #It gets extra points just solely for that #The songs were phenomenal too! #I don't believe in the uttar kand or anything but I kind of enjoyed this movie #Though unlike legend of Prince Rama ya Arjun the warrior prince jinhe koi bhi age ka insaan enjoy kar sakta hai #Yeh bus for the kiddos hai #And mere Dil mein itna dukhaa jab Ram ji literally just went to fight and Hanuman ji was the one who suggested to offer peace #Like- You know the same god jinhone Ravan ko tak pehle peace offer Kiya tha- #I HAVE ALWAYS HATED THIS STORY FOR THE MISCHARACTERISATION #Also Hanuman ji forgetting RAM JI'S ORDERS JUST BECAUSE SOME VANAARS SANG HIS PRAISES #ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? #Also am I the only one who was confused jab luv and Kush defeated Laxman ji with their divyaastras? #Like- laxman ji killed Indrajit the demon who defeated Indra himself #So..how were Luv and Kush able to defeat Laxman ji with astras that belonged to Indra dev and other devtas? #But I digress #Also the scene where luv and Kush went to the place which reflected their own thoughts #Frozen ne yeh cheat maari thi kya unse 😭 #Anyways that's all. #Ab next movie mere Target mein hai Dashavatar #And I think I am going to love that one #Why? Well #Kyunki I stumbled upon the “Oo Mohini Oo Kamini” song-

[snekjoy]

More genshin takes. Today's subject is Diona, who is actually mischaracterised so badly it makes me mad.

Fandom take: brat who hates diluc and complains all the time and hates alcohol (I have seen actual tiktoks complaining about her for these reasons)

Reality:

Diona's mother is not mentioned. She seems to be looked after only by her father, or was looked after by him. Diona loves her father more than anything, and the first time she saw him drunk, her entire world was shattered. She decided that this couldn't be his fault, he was her dad. He was her hero. Clearly, it was the fault of the wine.

Draff is not a responsible parent-

[friendship lv. 4 story: ...young Diona found that her father would wind up particularly drunk... dead to the world before he could even finish her bedtime story]

-and Diona doesn't want to accept that it's his fault, so she hates alcohol and wants to take down the wine industry. The way she wants to achieve this is through mixing drinks so disgusting, nobody who visits the Cat's Tail will ever want to drink again.

Unfortunately, she was blessed on her seventh birthday by the spring fairy, a spirit living in the water at Springvale. She used to go and speak to the water when Draff was drunk, and the fairy listened and chose to bless her.

[friendship lv. 6 story: "I will bless you, daughter of hunters, for your days ahead, and as a farewell. May your cup always run over with the sweet wine of celebration. May it always be refreshing as springs of ever-melting snow."]

Diona doesn't remember this, since she was so young, and believes it to be a dream. She can't make bad drinks, no matter the ingredients or techniques used. It's impossible.

She doesn't know this, so she got a job at the Cat's Tail to try and achieve her goals. This is AWFUL. Margaret, the owner, said: [lv. 3 story] "What choice did I have? She's just too cute."

The creeps at the Cat's Tail are fucking disgusting.

[Lv. 4 story: "...until one day, when a particularly plastered fellow tugged her tail out of curiosity... only to find it unexpectedly warm and soft. That day, Diona turned the tavern upside-down."

Voiceline - About Barbara: "How come all of my fans are drunk middle-aged men, while Barbara's are all young people...?"

More about Diona, II: "You wouldn't ask me to meow like a cat, like those boozehounds at the tavern do, would you? I wouldn't do it, no way! I'm not some little house pet that just shakes my ears real cute and stretches my back!"]

Not to mention that mf from her hangout quest. They're fucking disgusting, and she shouldn't even have a job at her age.

So Diona has a neglectful, drunkard father, is constantly surrounded by creeps, is being essentially exploited by Margaret for her ears and tail, and the only friend she ever had apart from the traveller was a fairy she believes is a dream.

That's why she's so angry all of the time.

Now, why does she dislike Diluc?

Diluc doesn't drink-

[Least favourite food voiceline: I don't like alcohol. It's just... I don't like how it feels in my mouth..."]

-so people often use this as an excuse to get mad that Diona blames him for her dad's drunkenness, but they forget that she doesn't know this. Diona doesn't know that Diluc doesn't like alcohol, she sees him as the leader of the Mondstadt wine industry (since he is.)

[Diona's voiceline- About Diluc: "Diluc! I can't stand him! If there was no Diluc, there would be no Mondstadt wine industry; and if there was no Mondstadt wine industry, Daddy wouldn't drink; and if Daddy didn't drink... he would keep me company."]

She doesn't want the blame to be on her father; she idolises him. She instead wants to blame something she can work against, and in her eyes that is the Mondstadt wine industry. As the figurehead of the industry, of course Diluc is going to be a target of hatred. She's a kid. She doesn't understand that Diluc has no control over it. All she knows is that her dad drinks, and she hates it, and Diluc sells wine.

Diona is incredibly hurt, especially for such a young child. That's not even getting started on how she got her vision (she had to save Draff from a storm, since the Knights couldn't get to him through the rain. Her determination to save him gave her her vision. She's a healer because he was incredibly hurt, and she made a cocktail for him to ease the pain.)

She desperately wants connection, considering how she warms up to the traveller through her friendship levels. She's hurt and sad and lost, and the only way she really knows how to express that is through anger. She's violent (she bit Elzer when he tried to hire her to Dawn Winery) because she HAS NO OTHER OPTIONS.

The fandom hating on her because she dislikes their ~anime husbando~ is annoying as hell and I'm sick of it, because none of them understand WHY. She doesn't hate Diluc personally. She hates the wine industry. She hates that she's alone. She's fucking tragic, but so awfully overlooked it pains me.

#shes just like me fr #genshin impact #diona katzlein #genshin diona #diona genshin impact #character study #long post #by accident lmao

[hollow-keys]

I saw Wonder Woman #2 today and I decided to read it out of morbid curiousity, so mamma mia, here we go again:

I read Tom King's Wonder Woman so you don't have to, round two (link to round one here).

First off, framing. Yet again, this issue is narrated by the Sovereign, but this time it's narrated to someone. And that someone is Trinity, Diana's daughter that Tom King created. She gets no lines and she doesn't appear on panel, but given the Sovereign refers to Diana as "your mother," there's only one character it could be. First of all, this is Diana's book, it should be told from her perspective. We get no insight from her, nothing from her perspective, she shows even less emotion than in the last issue. This is not the treatment Tom King gave Batman. Second, I do not care about the OC daughter. I do not want to hear about her.

But on to the actual story. So, it starts with Diana on an open field being approached by Steve Trevor, who is acting on behalf of the US government and is telling her to stand down because she can't win.

Look, I didn't think I'd ever complain about Steve Trevor, incredibly basic WW supporting character, being mischaracterised but. Isn't he meant Wonder Woman's staunch friend who pretty much always takes her side? Hasn't he seen Diana in enough battles to know she doesn't just lose? She's fought gods, armies from outer space, the forces of Apokolips, why does he think the US army is beyond her? He's underestimating her for no reason.

And more importantly, because she is the title character, why doesn't Diana seem to care that her long time ally is being a coward?

And why does Diana care about the soldiers wellbeing at this point? Why is she trying to get them to go home with no consequence and no hint of anger about how her or her fellow Amazons have been treated when they've already made their stance quite clear? People are dead! They've already made their decision, you already tried to extend them mercy. Now you fight. The thing about Diana is that mercy is always her first port of call, but when the other side has made their choice she meets them and she does have anger about the injustices they've committed. Here, she just doesn't seem to care.

Also, Diana's nihilism about the ways of men, that they will always "crash upon the rocks" is at odds with her optimism. She knows that humanity contains multitudes, some crash, some don't.

Anyway, the whole issue parallels her fight against the army with flashbacks to her final fight on Themyscira to prove herself worthy of being the Amazon's champion and Wonder Woman. This parallel makes no sense to me. Those fights were completely different.

One is against an army to defend herself and her people from enemies who want them dead, the other is against an ally in a tournament, a battle where no one's in real danger. Or at least, that's how it should be. Usually when this moment is shown, it's a good faith tournament to find out who the most qualified person to serve as champion is, they're all allies who respect each other. Here, the opponent is shown to be hateful towards Diana, genuinely seriously injure her and there's no sense of camaraderie between them.

While Diana and her opponent are trading barbs before their fight, the other Amazon gives her a chance to surrender. Diana responds "Honour is won with swords, not surrender," which is incredibly out of character for her. Yes, there are cases where Diana would consider surrender dishonourable, but it's not an absolute rule. She believes in compassion and peace, which means surrender is sometimes the right course of action. The framing of it as an absolute here does a disservice to her.

Steve Trevor would not fucking say that, Amazons do not fucking act like that and the last panel makes no sense. It's said by present Diana but only makes sense as a continuation of past Diana's sentence. present WW just said "To tell me who I am." with no words before that. To parallel these conversations, present Diana talking to Steve would have had to have said "Neither you nor anyone else has ever earned the right..." in the fifth panel so the seventh panel made sense for both sides. The composition here was thoughtless. Yes this is a nitpick, but details matter. Where are the editors? Sidenote: her mask is ugly.

Anyway, then we get these choice narration boxes from the Sovereign.

It's just. So bad. I want to make it clear that at no point is the Sovereign framed as an unreliable narrator, despite being the villain who's diametrically opposed to Diana. This just appears to be, Tom King's genuine take on things. I would ask if he understands that you cannot believe in peace and do nothing in the face of violent status quo, but I don't have to. Of course he doesn't. And of course he calls her an idiot while he's at it. Remind me, did he ever call Batman anything like that?

We then get more pathetic "Of course I want Diana to win, I'm still gonna serve with her enemies though" Steve Trevor. I should make it clear tho that he's not actually fighting against her, he's just watching the fight and updating Sargeant Steel.

Anyway, then we get a bit of narration that says:

"Infantry. Be it conscripts or... Well it's always just conscripts. If you can't do it from afar...Or with haste... Then get the grunts to rush in close and kill and die in what you will tell their children was a patriotic mission."

Tom King, stop processing your war trauma here. Any one of these soldiers could have stood down, they chose to enforce a genocidal policy. It's on them. Stop framing them as victims who were taken advantage of, they're grown adults who chose to be there.

Anyway. Another caption box from the still-inexplicably-narrating-this Sovereign:

"...And prepared to meet the onslaught of angry men with the grace of a princess born and proven."

I ask this again, did he ever treat Batman like this? Does he ever emphasise Batman's grace and frame him as being above anger? Why does Diana need to be like this?

And now for an unnecessary Macbeth reference.

"For some time the missiles rained down. No man of woman born could have survived such a salvo. But of course. She was neither a man nor born of woman. She was Amazon. Forged first of clay. Then steel."

I don't think this reference makes sense considering the line in Macbeth is a prophecy, a warning that Macbeth missed. But here it's a measure of power. She's powerful enough because she's not a man of woman born, which makes no sense because that has nothing to do with power. I'm nitpicking. Again. I know. But the Macbeth reference is such a shallow attempt at being badass. And as a sidenote, it should say "She was AN Amazon."

"Potty train." "A pup." God this dialogue is so bad. Amazons do not fucking speak like that.

Then Diana smashes a tank with another tank and there are cartoon stars on the impact sight. This is meant to be a serious battle, why are they there?

"Many people lie about your mother. About her family, her origins, her abilities, her wants her needs. Every tale of the great Wonder Woman provides us with more insight into the teller than into their supposed protagonist. They faithfully project their own fears onto her with the aspiration that her legend can ease their daily panic."

So close to self awareness and yet so far. It's so ironic.

"Men in the field, I admire your courage! I honor your service and your loyalty! I do not wish to harm you! But if you proceed... I will... Over and over... Drop a 55-ton abrams tank on your pathetic little heads!"

Again, why does she not seem to care about the violence they've committed against her and her people? Why does she continue to respect them and wish no harm upon them? Where's her sadness, her righteous fury? And the bit where she says she'll drop a tank on their "pathetic little heads" is so out of character and it's such bad dialogue. When Diana makes threats, it's not like that.

Anyway, y'know the flashback fight? Yeah, well, the issue ends with the reveal that her opponent is the Amazon that committed the massacre which kick started this whole thing, which is such a cheap retcon it makes me roll my eyes.

After all this, I think I put more thought into this post than Tom King puts into any of his writing. I hope the next issue isn't bad enough that it inspires me to do this again. I'm tired.

#diana prince #wonder woman #tom king #dc comics #wednesday spoilers #📨

[viola-ophelia]

I'd like Russingon so much more if people weren't annoying about it. Like, it's genuinely interesting as an epic friendship chivalric bond type relationship, and I like both characters, the dynamic between them and how it affects the text, but, to me that's so much more interesting than 'oh, of course we were secretly married the whole time, undeniable canon ship', like, it's so irritating and it lacks depth and also? They're not canon. I completely understand people who do want a major queer relationship, but. It's not canon. If anything, the relationship Tolkein maybe consciously wrote as intentionally homoerotic is Turin and Beleg. And at this point I'd genuinely be more interested in something that approaches Maedhros as Fingon as having a platonic relationship based around the chivalric narratives I'm pretty sure Tolkein was inspired by. And I hate the take that if you don't ship russingon you're automatically homophobic.

Also I'm so agreed on the Eol thing, like, yeah, that story has some pretty hideous racist subtext and I get people wanting to change it but idk why they always do it by a) making Aredhel 100% in love and happy with a man who refused to let her leave his house and who later killed her by trying to kill their son OR b) slutshames and villanises Aredhel, usually by portraying her as an abuser (sometimes having the gall to call it feminist and empowering like. If you think a woman being a rapist us empowering you need serious help) And I'm also not sure why she gets called the slutty cousin when one of the first things we know about her is 'she gave her hearts love to none', and when she did get married she was at least partially coerced into it? Like, aside from how horrible slut shaming random female characters is, Aredhel seems like the least likely candidate? She and Celegorm are always so mischaracterised, one thing I really hate about fandom is how it seems to have this set of archetypes it shoves characters into even if that's not how they are in text, to make them more palleatable and understandable I guess? Like, Celegorm was probably a bit on the wild side, but we know he's a linguist and an orator and a skilled commander who actually seems to have taken the initiative in the Nargothrond coup, like? He's always made into a dumb jock and Curufin's always so bitter and bitchy and neither of those seem particularly accurate to how they are in canon? (Also have to agree on the Celegorm/Curufin side, I've read some good fic)

I think one of the biggest problems in the Silm fandom is a) people whitewashing their faves and picking sides in a way that seems really unconscious of how the text emphasises that this is about complex people with incompatible goals and b) people always wanting their ships to be canon to the extent that they end up putting them as the focus of the story, and twisting the text to try and validate them which like? I like a fun ship as much as the next person, but something's aren't canon and that's literally fine? Like, I'm really into Melkor and Sauron as characters, and I do really enjoy Angbang as a ship, but the amount of people who claim they were 'literally married' when we don't have any textual indication for their relationship other than one-sided fanatical devotion on Sauron's part and a level of trust and respect on Morgoth's, is seriously annoying.

Sorry I've been ranting please feel free to ignore this

sorry for taking so long to respond, work was crazy today! but i completely agree with a lot of this, thanks for sharing!!

i think the question of whether or not there’s a “canon queer ship” in the silm is dubious for a bunch of reasons, but i totally agree, if anything it’s turleg! it just doesn’t make sense for tolkien to have explicitly condemned cousin marriages between elves but also to have intended russingon to be read romantically. of course, you don’t have to stick to tolkien’s intent in your hcs LOL- that’s why fanon exists- but his intent does shape what is canon and what isn’t, and he was writing and living in a different time. which is why the argument that anyone who doesn’t ship russingon is homophobic annoys me lol. and even if russingon WAS canon, it wouldn’t be homophobic not to ship it, that’s not how that works lol.

AGREED re: aredhel and eol! i am really not a fan of any analysis of them that somehow tries to spin it around so aredhel was the abusive one. of course, to each their own, but i don’t personally see anything progressive about that and also don’t feel it’s a compelling read of canon. the thing that i think some people don’t get about aredhel is that she can be the victim in an abusive relationship AND a strong woman and an important character beyond that abuse. those things can coexist, and they do. aredhel was groundbreaking! she (and galadriel, i think?) were the only women who survived the helcaraxe! aredhel was the only woman involved at alqualonde! she’s the only female hunter in tolkien’s works! she’s so much more than just some vessel for birthing maeglin and then dying, ugh. even though she didn’t survive the horrible situation she was put in with eol, doesn’t mean she was weak or irrelevant and also doesn’t mean that the only “progressive” interpretation of her needs to be that she was in the wrong somehow.

re: the idea that celegorm is dumb… YES! people forget that he’s canonically a great public speaker, and i think he might’ve had the best “people skills” out of his brothers- remember, he singlehandedly stirred everyone up for the second kinslaying (for better or for worse lol). and he knew more about the forest and about animals and nature than pretty much anyone else due to his training with orome, and the fact that he could understand/maybe speak to animals shows he had linguistic skills that went WAY beyond most other elves.

and curufin… one curufin moment that the fandom seems to collectively ignore, but that i LOVE and that seems really at odds with his characterization as a cunning scheming bitch, is the moment where he runs into eol in pursuit of aredhel and confronts him, telling him off for having forced her into marriage and basically telling him to get the heck out of himlad. he clearly cared a lot about his cousin! he clearly does have morals LOL!

#thanks for sending this! this was super interesting to read! #silm #silmarillion #ask #cat's meta

[raviolitin]

why do you support captain charming at all if you view hook’s actions as sexual harassment???

It all comes down to the fact that the way I interact with captain charming is in the most heavily fanon way possible, my interpretation of Hook is not the same Hook as depicted in canon in any way shape or form.

Second of all, the way Hook ‘flirts’ (obviously meant to just be banter by the writers) with David doesn’t seem directly unwanted or unreciprocated to me. Emma and Snow tell him to stop multiple times, while people like Regina kind of have apathy to the whole thing and David’s reactions read more to me as him being flustered because he’s being flirted with by a man for the first time. I view is reactions more as a complicated disgust with himself because he’s letting a man and pirate flirt with him and he isn’t mad about it, but oh god he should be mad and what would everyone else think if they knew. obviously that’s very heavily fanon, but that’s my personal interpretation of how David would react to actual flirting if Hook was the one doing it.

Killian is such an odd character because I sometimes forget that he is the way he is in canon, because the Hook I write in fics and depict in edits isn’t the same person, which is common in just about every fandom space. Honestly I think Hook is the only character I don’t get mad about the mischaracterisation of, because god is he a mess.

I also think that him being with David actually gives him way more of a chance to change and grow from that. From the start, David has put his foot down about that kind of stuff. One of their first interactions is David literally physically attacking him because he flirted with Snow, and the entire time they’re on Neverland he doesn’t stop berating him for how weird his behaviour towards women is.

This means that David would never be with Hook in any way shape or form, unless Hook changed that and he stopped doing it. David’s strong morals are good for Killian in my opinion, because he can do nothing but become the best person he can under his influence.

Hook getting with Emma is annoying because, as i said, it feels like he’s being rewarded for his incessant flirting that she says she doesn’t like (even if she changed he mind on this, Killian can’t be sure she has). He gets the girl in the end, which makes me angry because it’s not like one of those stories where he stopped and THEN she realised she loves him, because throughout the whole s3 finale he’s still flirting and commenting on her body.

The fact that Hook actually hates David, unlike the way he’s always liked Emma, means almost all of his flirting is left unspoken because of both his anger towards him and the fact David’s in active danger throughout the whole neverland arc and they’re barely speaking in 3b. Killian is put in a position where flirting is very hard, which means he doesn’t do very much of it (and if we’re going with canon, he does none of it).

So, in Hook’s mind, when he does get with David, he doesn’t associate ‘getting the guy’ with harassment and flirting, but rather with heroic acts like saving David from dreamshade. As a result, he goes into his redemption arc with the mindset that flirting doesn’t work, that winning someone’s heart takes more than constantly being sexual towards them. The way I view it, that means the toxic cycle of behaviour probably won’t continue, and if it does, David would have a stern talk about it because he’s not letting Hook be that man again.

Obviously, captain charming has not and never will be canon, but this is just how i view it.

Also, I have no problem with cs shippers! Just want to clear that up, what I said is more of a problem with Killian’s development, rather than his actual relationship. Captain Swan isn’t a bad ship, but Hook is definitely a bad character, which sours the ship as a whole in my opinion. (I only tagged it as anti captain swan because I didn’t want captain swan shippers to have that clogging up their tag)

#ouat #once upon a time #david nolan #killian jones #captain charming

[quick-catton]

im not a fanfic reader as a rule bc i hate !!!!! mischaracterisation but dude. ur the exception fr how do u understand them so well >_<

anyways. rereading both of ur works as a bedtime story tonight <333 cannot wait to get fed again keep it up

no i don’t think you understand the way this made my heart SCREAM???? i can’t even begin to express how much i appreciate this, genuinely oh my godddd. i’m always so harsh on myself about my characterization because it’s something i’m super picky about too so this was so incredibly reassuring and motivating to read, you have no idea.

i love to crack characters open and over–analyze the shit out of them and really get into their minds as best as possible when i get passionate about them and all i can do is hope the love shows in my writing!!!! i fear i may let you down with the characterization on today’s fic since it wasn’t originally written for this fandom but i’ve poured over every word (as has my angel of a friend thank u honey) for hours to get it as close to them as i think i can without entirely rewriting it, so hopefully it’s something. :-) <3

#thank u anon ily #will cherish this forever #im so srs

[overmore]

Why alvaluca shippers (most of the time) don't like other Alva ships: An explanation

So I'll start this off with the statement that I do ship alvaluca and other Alva ships, so that we're all on the same ground with this. This is coming from a point of someone who has observed this situation for almost a year from the pov of a player and around half a year from a pov of active fandom participant. These are just my observations and you are free to add your own by reblogging this post. I would love to hear other opinions on this!

Another thing before we start, this is a strictly anti-harrasment space. I love a good discussion, but the moment any sort of harassment is started, that's where you get blocked. Be civil and don't go harass people who like any of the ships vauged or mentioned in this post.

To start this of, let's look at the situation: alvaluca is the current hot ship to hate in the idv fandom. It's the ship everyone will always try to argue about, even go to the lengths of making up lies to justify their hatered for the said ship (the infamous 'Alva knew Luca as a baby' lie). This already puts most shippers in a very defense position, somewhat isolated from the main fandom unless they also like some other ships a lot.

Now, compared to Luca who has been out for a lot longer than Alva as a playable character, we know Luca already has an assortment of ships to choose from. Be it with a woman or a man, there's a number of characters you can pair him up with. When Alva came out, this made him one of the few hunters that has a connection to a survivor prior to the games (the only other that we know of for now being Emma and Leo). So, as every modern fandom does, people attach the 'family' sticker to them, no matter how much that does not make sense with their backstories that we have for now.

So, we have a ship hated by the fandom and people putting 'family' label on them.

What could possibly go wrong when someone decides to like an Alva ship with another character? (sarcasm)

This is, unfortunately, how current fandom climate works. People will always look at characters, decide to call the ship 'problematic' and their first reaction to that is to make a ship with one of them that's a 'healthy' ship, whatever that means.

With Luca, this isn't that much of a problem since he has been in the game for longer, as I mentioned just now. But with Alva, it's a different story.

So let's start by looking at the first ship people latched on, Halva.

Starting this section with a very simple thing: most people who like this ship hate alvaluca. The ship is inherently a reactionary one, the one that says 'this is the good Alva ship!' Now, we can go into the story on how mischaracterised Alva is in this ship, how most people lach into pre-accident Alva even though that's not the Alva we have right now and how the ship itself often falls into the nuclear family type of a ship that people use and make them Luca's dads, but that not why we are here. I could make a whole post about it though. In a short summary, Alva gets heavily mischaracterised here, and there are a lot of issues on how people try to portray it. I will even go as far as saying that most people maybe don't even like the ship because they truly do but because it's the 'better' ship and the 'healthy' one, even though that's not even remotely close to the truth.

Now, there are people who like both ships. This explanation also requireds a lot of explaining that goes into character dissection, but we don't have time for that. But some people do like both. Not the majority though.

The behavior of halva shippers usually leaves alvaluca shippers to hate the said ship. Even if in reality it might even be their cup of tea and they would enjoy it, having shippers constantly hate on them and send them death threats, one would not want to be associated with such people.

But what about other ships? It makes sense for people to hate halva, but why would they hate other Alva ships?

Well, pretty much the same reason.

Any Alva ship that doesn't involve Luca is a 'safe' and 'good' ship, or how some people like to say 'healthy' ship. Personally, the concept of 'healthy' ships on fiction is dumb to me. If I like something that's considered problematic, I will still like it because it's just that, fiction. But, in a fandom that has a lot of children, sometimes ones that are getting exposed to fandom for the first time... well that's a recipe for a disaster.

So, a person whose sick of their ship being hated on so much, now sees the 'alternative, better' ship, their first reaction might not be 'this ship seems interesting' but will rather be 'great, another "better and healthier" ship for people to use to shit on mine 😒'

It is inherently a defensive stance, more often than not. After being the target for harassment, any other ship with Alva is now seen as the 'better' option for people to have instead of liking alvaluca. It is a very sad thing to see, especially as someone who likes multiple ships and does consider himself a multishipper. The fandom climate has taken a strong ship towards harassment instead of just ignoring things and it's very sad to see people flat out avoid ship with a character they like because of it.

However,

this doesn't mean that every person's reaction to the ship like that is from the right place. I do think it's fine to critique the way people might react to something, especially with a way they react to it.

I have seen people use things like 'Alva would hate (insert another character) if the met in canon' , 'this is just a safe vanilla ship it has no flavor' or even worse, 'it doesn't make sense'

let's start with the first one

Alva would hate (insert another character) if the met in canon

We don't know that. So far, our information on Alva is limited, only having Luca's birthday letters, Ann's character day letters, their trailers and his deductions. I doubt we'll get that much from his character day letter too, since it is the first one. We don't fully know his stance on a lot of things. Saying blanket statements like these is kinda dumb. And honestly, even if that was true, nothing is stopping people from shipping them. Enemies to lovers is a thing.

this is just a safe vanilla ship it has no flavor

This is a trap I see a lot of people who mostly like problematic ships fall into. I say this because I also sometimes fall into this mindset. So what if it's a vanilla ship? Some people like that! Hell, I like that even if most of my stuff is very questionable! You can take my vanilla cute ships out of my cold dead hands. So what if people like Alva and Burke or Alva and Joseph? let people have their old man yaoi!

This also goes with the fact that people are often expected to either only like problematic ships or only non-problematic ones. It's something really weird I've noticed, especially since 2020 and onwards when it comes to fandom spaces. Like, you can enjoy both! You don't have to pick sides! Sometimes you want to enjoy different things and that's fine!

it doesn't make sense

Let's get one thing clear: 98% of idv ships don't make sense. Hell, the most popular ones haven't even met in canon! Saying it doesn't make sense makes you sound like an anime dudebro, for the lack of a better world. I get that we have a problem with people being shitty to the alvaluca shippers, but that doesn't mean we get to also be shitty, even if it comes from a place of self defense in this case. Don't go that low please.

Now back on track

This seems to only happen with his ships with other hunters, oddly enough. While the stigma of hunter/survivor ships does seem to be gone for the most part, people still seem to stay away from ships like those to a certain degree. These seem to mostly go under radar in Alva's case, usually unbothered by this situation.

Conclusion:

The negative gut reaction by alvaluca shippers is caused by extensive harassment, therefore any ship with Alva is considered bad as anything not alvaluca is 'good' in the eyes of the larger fandom scale. This does not mean that the reaction is something that should happen, but it has become a product of the current fandom climate. The only way to change this is pushing out the harassment that is very rampant, but this takes time, and considering idv's fandom is full of mostly younger people, this is an issue that might not get resolved easily, as sad as it is to say it out loud.

I hope this was able to clear things up at least to a certain degree! Again, I would love to see anything added to this as long as it's civil!

Have a good day everyone!

#idv #identity v #fandom #fandom discussion #not really discourse but rather explanation #keep it civil please

[thatswhatsushesaid]

I find it interesting seeing your takes on jin guangyao because I think this is what I must be like about jiang cheng. Which is to say, I have a very nuanced, obviously 100% correct view of him, and hate it when he is mischaracterised in fic. Reasons I have stopped reading a fic: jiang cheng's relationship with wei wuxian was the wrong kind of dysfunctional, jiang cheng did not help jin ling enough, jiang cheng was the butt of an ongoing joke because he was obliviously in love with wen qing (a lesbian in this version of events), jiang cheng was too willing to just give up, or, my particular favourite, lan wangji was too mean to jiang cheng and wei wuxian didn't intercede. I think I am pretty ridiculous because in all these stories jiang cheng was a background character - he wasn't the point of the story. The author clearly just hadn't thought about him that much (except the wen qing one - that one felt very pointed and mean spirited). And why should they care? But also I will never read these fics now.

clasps ur hand in solidarity, anon 🤝 don't stop being ridiculous about jiang cheng!!

confession: I genuinely didn't pay much attention to jc until I read meta that helped me contextualize why he made the decisions that he did before the first siege of the burial mounds, and it completely reshaped my opinion of him and his relationship with wwx. always stay ridiculous about your fave, you're helping other people to better understand the character and his role in the story.

#asks answered #also /gestures @ all of the stuff about what throws u out of a fic #I feel this in my bones :c #and I'm so glad that AO3 is rolling out that mute feature now #time to mute mute mute all the antis so I don't have to filter out their stuff while trying to find The Good Shit

[la-pheacienne]

More thoughts from an Alicent fan: I feel like a lot of problems within the fan base of both GoT and HotD come from the need to pit women against each other. So many Sansa fans hate Dany and vice versa but I don’t think they really organically hate these characters, I think they just take it on as a part of loving one female character, that she has to have a hated female counterpart. I can’t think of a single major female character I truly hate from either series. I was never a big Ygritte or Mysaria fan but I don’t hate them. Dany is my all time favorite character and I relate to her so much and other fans have assumed I must hate Sansa when really the two of them have a lot of parallels in their narratives and the fact that the show didn’t explore that pisses me off. Likewise people will assume I don’t like Rhaenyra just because I like Alicent. It’s silly. Rhaenyra deserves the throne and I love her! I think some fans just like to have conflict and they like to be opposed to something so they’ll always find reasons to hate once they’ve “picked a side.”

Hello anon! I will answer your ask after ages, sorry.

So, I feel that my point of view is relevant in this discussion since I initially was a Sansa Stan, before even watching GoT, when it first aired. Yeah. So in short, everybody started watching GoT all of the sudden, I wasn't really into a lot of TV shows at the time, mainly books and cinema, and I was sick of all the buzz. Part of the buzz was all of my friends saying I HATE SANSA GOD I HATE HER SO MUUUUUUCH all the time all around. When I asked guys wtf did Sansa do and you hate her so fucking much, they were all like SHE'S WHINING AND SNIVELLING ALL THE TIME AND SHE DOESN'T DO ANYTHING USEFUL SHE'S ANNOYING AF AND ARYA IS SO COOOL BLABLABLABLA yeah noise in my ears basically. Then I realised that this girl actually didn't do anything that bad it's just that she was a spoiled little girl being annoying at her sister and that's literally it. This was a story about literal monsters and everybody was literally bitching about Sansa. Literally. So I became her stan purely out of reaction at how unfairly she was treated by the fandom initially. Of course later on I actually became invested in ASOIAF and GOT and my interest in Sansa diminished, I saw how stupidly the writers treated her and Arya's arc, it literally didn't make any sense, Arya was indeed almost destroyed just to make Sansa be more important than she needed to be. That's a fact.

So fact number one, people did in fact hate Sansa from the start. There was actual hate there since the beginning. I remember it in my circle of friends and I wasn't in any internet fandom at the time thank god.

Fact number two, the arc that the show adopted gave birth to deranged Sansa stans on the basis of a huge mischaracterisation of Sansa. She was given the arc of other characters, she was made the perfect victim of abuse, again and again, and then she was given a ruling arc, then the joke of a ship that is Jonsa appeared and the combination of all these things plus the internalised misogyny of all parts involved completely ruined the fandom I think. Sansa stans hated Dany because she got in the way of their ship and she was also pretty and hot plus powerful, which Sansa wasn't, Dany and Arya stans hated Sansa because they were sick of the mischaracterisation and stupid script, and it all went downhill.

It's the writing of the show that caused this, mainly, by creating a conflict that shouldn't exist and is downright stupid. There should be no conflict between Sansa and Dany, none, zero. The North shouldn't be represented by Sansa, it should be represented by Jon Bran or Arya, they should have had the conflict with Dany, not Sansa. It's Arya's storyline that strongly parallels Dany, not Sansa. Sure ok both were raped, but I vehemently REFUSE to see women characters as just victims of abuse. Just because two women were victims of abuse doesn't mean they have things in common. Being victims is not all there is to these characters. Arya had the same experience as Dany (fugitive, restless, passionate with justice, anti conformist, challenging males, seeking home plus their identity crisis) all these things make them similar that's why a conflict-alliance-any sort of contact between them could have been very interesting. Instead we got this stupidity that was season 7 and 8.

Frankly this never-ending war between Sansa stans and Dany stans is extremely exhausting to me. But I understand it because that's what being in a fandom does to you. Now that I am in HOTD fandom I am immerged in it and I get it. Of course I am not objective, I love Dany, I love Sansa, but I don't believe she should be Queen in the North. I don't have a problem with Sansa but her stans are in fact deranged. They are deranged because they can be, because the plot gave them enough ground to work on. Ironically, I would have loved Sansa much more if I never came in contact with her stans. Same with Alicent.

TL;DR: Conflicts between female characters are inevitable, and necessary, when their interests are diametrically opposed. Alicent and Rhaenyra are enemies and should be enemies. Yes you can sympathize with both, but that doesn't stop you from picking a side. You can pick the side of the Blacks and sympathise with Alicent. Sansa and Dany conflict shouldn't even exist, it's not like Alicent and Rhaenyra's case. The writers created that conflict and divided the fandom for nothing. In both cases, a great deal of the hate is actually a reaction to the deranged stans, not the characters themselves.

In any case anon, if you can avoid the fandom war, DO IT. It's better. Sympathise with any person you want, nobody can say that just because you love one character you can't love the other. That's stupid.

#guys I'm sorry I don't know if that makes sense #hotd #got #asoiaf #daenerys targaryen #Sansa Stark #alicent Hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #anonymous

[padfootastic]

it's also baffling to me that fanon continues to be so unsympathetic to sirius's regression in ootp considering the ways in which his family drama has generally really been ramped up by a lot of the marauders fandom. like not to get into sirius family discourse too deeply bc that's not the point but it's weird how certain parts of the fandom will conceive of super traumatic backstories for him and then not follow through or have any sympathy for how that would that effected him?

hello, anon! 💜 i have a theory why it’s like that.

it’s like a previous anon mentioned, he’s almost always conceptualised in terms of his relationships with others. and what’s the most popular one of those? (my heart wants to say james but we all know the answer is remus lmao) i think sirius exists mainly as a narrative foil and that’s what creates such a weirdly contradicting perception of him. there’s so much focus on his (actual & perceived) negatives bc he as an individual doesn’t matter so much as what he can do for others.

give him a lot of trauma so he can be on remus’ level but don’t dig deep into it bc that’s not the point. turn sirius into the reckless, immature one so remus’ stoicism and level-headedness can shine through. keep bringing up his failed godfatherly role so remus’ distance doesn’t look as bad. make him a heartbreaker who can’t hold a relationship so remus’ own commitment issues aren’t highlighted. focus on his cruelty & arrogance so remus’ own self perception seems better. turn his initiative into impulsivity and remus’ cowardice looks like a good thing. you see where i’m going with this, yeah? i haven’t brought up r/s so far because i didn’t wanna needlessly bash (for once lol) but all this thinking about sirius’ mischaracterisation has been making me think about the stories it’s set in.

and it’s not just r/s too, to be fair. a lot of slytherin/dark harry and related fics do it too, i’ve seen. paint him as a prank loving manchild and it emphasises how much more mature and serious the other, newer, adults in harry’ life are. turn sirius into a slytherin-hating black & white morality guy to positively highlight the grey nature of harry’s new loyalties. or sometimes, sirius’ attitude is used as a catch-all for harry’s parents so it’s like ‘okay, sirius has this damaging mentality, my parents would’ve too, so it’s okay that i’m going against their ideals and what they wanted for me’ if that makes sense? i guess what i’m trying to say is, sirius is often used as a convenient mouthpiece or to fulfill a certain narrative purpose (even beyond what characters in a story usually do) and that puts him existence as a person in his own right in the backseat.

i guess i would call it the reverse poor little meow meow phenomenon. sirius’ life is tragic, yes, but it’s not pathetic or inducing ‘i can fix him’ energy if that makes sense? he’s not written to be a very sympathetic character, over all, despite the trauma porn life trajectory, and people ran with that.

#sirius black #sbds #mind the word theory. don’t ask me for receipts or proof. it’s entirely possible i could be speaking out my ass #i feel like nothing i’ve said here makes sense 😭😭😭 #but i promise it did in my head. i had a point. #for once i’m trying to not needlessly poke at r/s bc we’re actually having a constructive discussion here that i’m enjoying #but i’ve genuinely seen this kind of characterisation so much #the family trauma thing is such a good point bc it highlights the hypocrisy #some characters’ actions are fully excused due to pasts but others aren’t #and i genuinely think it comes down to how they were written in the books #which is just rehashing what i’ve said before lol #pen’s asks

[sapphire-weapon]

I like Chreon because behind the scenes, they make sense together. Just because I can use canon parts of the story and characters to piece that ship together, does not mean I can pass Chreon off as canon. Capcom will eat their shit before that happens. They'd eat their shit before positively portraying any sort of lgbt+ character, nevermind the main protagonists. My point, just because fanon is inspired or theorised according to the real script, does not mean it's a good idea to push ANY personal opinion as law according to text. Why? Because people deserve to have narrative facts and unbiased analysis before making up their own minds. Backgrounds matter, especially in modern fandom where artists and writers go so hard. People need to accept the reality that everything they personally like doesn't mean it's the "most true" or what the fuck ever. It's exactly how childlike ship wars happen. How wildly mischaracterised opinions happen, which results in a hoard of people not understanding the well written nuance in new material. It's so annoying.

Is it okay to dislike and disagree with the road taken in canon? Of course, I do that often lmfao. I won't however try to twist and morph a different and inaccurate perspective of a scene and force others to agree with me. It's all so stupid anti-intellectual. I don't know why people think you're wrong here and that's coming from someone that doesn't always agree with you. Idk, this fanbase hates nuance.

I hope you do disagree with me sometimes. I hope everyone does. Fandom should be a community effort, not one person (or one group of people) preaching at the masses. The only thing I ever ask of people is "show your work."

That's what the Adam Benford truthers couldn't do. I asked them to show their work, and they couldn't, and then they disappeared -- but that shit is still being spread around the fandom, and it's still up on the wiki, because people's egos are wrapped up in having the rest of the fandom think that their opinions/interpretations are canon.

[spring-books]

I know many people have already spoken about this, but it always kind of annoys me when people will point to mdzs and say mxtx can't write women well or she hates them or some such thing. While there is always room for criticism and improvement, sweeping statements of this sort do not do mxtx Or the women in mdzs justice.

It really does feel like people just want the same sort of cookie cutter woke rep in all of their media to appease their consciences. When the women aren't easily categorised into girlboss, stoic strongwoman and problem solvers, theyre not only usually mischaracterised but also sort of cast away as not important enough, which really gets to me.

Could she have added more women to the story without changing much, probably. Would it have made it a better or more coherent story, debatable. Does she have strong women characters? Yes! Could they have been given more page time without taking away from the main story, again super debatable.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to, mxtx wrote four memorable, strong, differentiated women in a book about a gay romance. There were many more women tangential to the plot, but four had distinct characterisation and roles that heavily impacted the trajectory of the story. This is already more fleshed out women than i've seen in some hetero romances.

I find it an incredible disservice to the characters of luo qingyang, wen qing, jiang yanli and a-qing to write them off as only existing to move forward the plot. They do so, in the same sense that any bit of a book should move forward the narrative, but each one of them have clear motivations, complex emotions, inner lives and diverse personalities that have nothing to with the protags.

This post really isn't going anywhere. It's just a ramble to say that though the women in mdzs may not be on the page for as long as some of the men, but they sure do pack a punch when they are and I treasure each moment more so for their significance.

#mdzs #women in mdzs #jiang yanli #wen qing #luo qingyang #a-qing #novel only #rambles

[bunybunn]

I feel like inniters don't like c!bedrock bros dynamic but the idea of said dynamic, and only through c!tommys perspective, never considering what kind of a character c!techno is and what he needs

Yeah I feel like it's kind of the case... I guess there is two main reasons for this, one of them being the existence of sbi family dynamics and the second being the weird needs to have brother/parental figure for c!Tommy. They are fine with c!Technoblade as long as he was acting how they wanted him too.

They only care about the character as they play specific role in c!Tommy's story and get upset when it turns out that there is more to the characters. They did it to c!Philza too... I guess it's just something that inniters often do. They tend to try to analyse other characters through the perspective of c!Tommy which is the worst thing you could do because it's so easy for mischaracterisation.

I mean I don't know if you remember the time during the time during the Bedrock brose team up but basically everyone were enjoying it and were saying how great it was only for inniters to switch immediately after the green festival. This really shows that they did enjoyed they dynamic overall (I mean its Tommy and Techno they dynamic is always amazing) but only when served a specific function... I feel like lot of people in this fandom has tendency to hate on the characters that don't act exactly as they want them too which was always kind of weird to me.

#dream smp #dream smp fandom critical #technoblade #tommyinnit #bedrock bros

[lesbiradshaw]

referring to ur recent tags yes i 100% agree i think this is a cold take at this point but i feel like a lot of stevebuckies mischaracterisation comes from the weird woobification self insert shit they do with bucky and like a knee jerk reaction that they have to endgame steve (which was like the one time he was ooc in any meaningful way) and tbh im sick of this idea that this ship has to be chronic one sided pining and heartbreak all the time when if you actually look at what's there there's a beautiful, heartfelt, mutual and healthy give-and-take dynamic that can function perfectly on its own without forcing tragedy porn into it. idk if this is coherent at all but like why do people want steve to be an asshole so bad when he ???? isn't ????

righttttt! like i’m a little sick of the idea that they HAVE to have a tragic ending ... so we can pretend bucky willingly came home after tws instead of leaving steve behind on that riverbank for 28291844 fics about his healing (and same w post cw fics where he doesn’t choose cryo) but we can’t pretend steve didn’t leave at the end of endgame ? stg they just hate steve bcuz they’re always willing to bend over backwards to baby bucky and make his suffering front and center but always shove steve’s entire character to the back burner and make him a babysitter turned asshole when steve and bucky’s entire dynamic is completely different from that EVEN AFTER THE SERUM. they take care of each other always. bucky didn’t automatically stop being this guy that reciprocates protection towards steve just because steve got taller and againnnn steve is not an asshole that’s power hungry or a control freak! he never wanted to be in charge! he just wanted to serve like everyone else! anyways i love stevebucky so much because the story is beautiful and the dynamic is so Good and the love is all encompassing so seeing people twist it ... when i catch these people ...

#steve has also always looked up to bucky???? he adores him! #and people who think he didnt realize he loved bucky until after the fall kinda annoy me bc steve is in touch with his emotions #like very #he cries the most out of like everyone onscreen #just because he doesnt put his emotions first doesnt mean he doesnt know theyre there because he DOES and so does bucky #im writing a fic ab this rn but real steve is just as sweet as he is stubborn #people Men Dont Cry him all the time in fic and its so #if steve doesnt know he has emotions why is he always crying and giving people pep talks! #THATS WHAT I THOUGHT!

[madara-fate]

U don't have to answer this Maddy but it's pretty obvious sakura stans multishipping sakura with Naruto and hate NH and hinata . A lot of these were Naruto X sakura shippers who jumped on the ss side even you yourself know that . Sakura stans from the ss side treat him like trophy and then throw a fit whenever sasuke 's multishipping is involved and I've literally hardly seen a sasuke male fan who likes ss do this it's mostly these girls

There is a reason noone likes sakura stans on twitter and I can tell you they are very very toxic like a kpop fandom but even weirder

I've said what I needed to say on the matter already. People know my stance on this topic - I've made it clear that yes, I do strongly feel that the Sasuke mischaracterisation in the SS fandom is far more prevalent, where people always love seeing or making him obnoxiously jealous and overprotective, seeing him grovel to Sakura and beg for forgiveness, believing that he had always been in love with her since their Genin days etc. Prime examples being the disgusting reactions some fans had over Gigi flirting with Sakura, and the way in which many people just love to imagine Sakura getting some measure of petty “revenge” for Sasuke’s mistreatment during the main story. Like when Sarada called Sasuke annoying - People had a field day after that episode, saying how "justice was served" and all the rest of that nonsense.

But now it's almost as if people are trying to get me to pick sides or lessen my opinion of one over the other, that's just the impression I'm getting because of the way some people are wording their asks. My opinions of the fandoms or the characters isn't gonna change over some alleged incidents happening on Twitter. Now let's move on.

#Sasuke Uchiha #Sakura Haruno #sasusaku

[tiger-moran]

It’s just...

it’s hard, it’s almost impossible actually, not to feel extremely isolated and sidelined and kinda bitter about how other things get attention, how other characters and pairings get a billion things about them, in published stories, in adaptations, in fanfics, fanart, everything else, but the characters I love so much get next to nothing and when they do (rarely) get something in published stories or whatever very often they are horribly portrayed and mischaracterised

or how people in general mischaracterise them and how this idea that Moriarty and Moran hate each other and cannot possibly be close is widespread in the Sherlock Holmes fandom (and always has been) despite what is right there in the canon about them but people still act like it’s canonical that they hate each other and it’s just... such a losing battle, trying to go against that idea

or how people seemed to go on repeatedly about how last year during the pandemic/lockdowns so many people turned to fanfic for comfort, so there should have been more attention than usual on stuff I created going by that logic, right? So why did I start getting fewer and fewer hits, kudos, any kind of attention starting last year around that same time that supposedly there was this sudden surge in appreciation for fanworks? Why has the attention my work gets dwindled down so badly so rapidly since early last year? And it wasn’t exactly getting a lot of attention even before but it was still getting far more than it does now

or how other people seem to manage to be able to get people to actually pay them for their works, like with those charity auctions and stuff, meanwhile I can’t even give my work away essentially. I offer to write things for free, I ask for prompts or ideas to write about and mostly I get no response

or how I have to continually see stuff for Sherlock get so much attention, so many more hits, comments, kudos, everything, while mine gets a tiny fraction of that, despite the fact Sherlock doesn’t even have a Sebastian Moran

or how it isn’t even just about fanfic it’s about how I want to just talk about these things sometimes, not just write fics about them just talk about them, but there’s nobody to talk to about them, people don’t even want to do that most of the time and I could put so much time and effort and love into writing other things about them, meta, analysis, just random thoughts, whatever and nothing will come of that either. I just end up talking to myself, or not bothering to say anything at all sometimes

or how people have been like ‘you should join up with this fanworks exchange thing’ and you look at the thing and every single time it’s like... all anyone wants is Sherlock and/or Holmes/Watson stuff and several people specifically refuse to have anything to do with Moriarty and explicitly hate him and none of them clearly would want anything you could create and wouldn’t have a clue how to write anything you’d want even if they’re not one of the people outright refusing to write Moriarty (not to mention the time you asked the person running it a simple question and essentially got yelled at for it) and all those things and any kind of canon discussion thing has ever done is emphasise you’re an outlier, an outsider, and nobody cares about what you love and what means the world to you and you’re irrelevant basically

#it just... sucks #massively #oh yeah and also #like half the Moran stuff now is for that Patriot... show? manga? whatever #which I also could not care less about #so that's very irritating too