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wangxianficfinder · 1 year

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I'm in the mood for...

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1. Hi! Are there any fics where lqr is a good uncle to lwj? I don’t just mean those with the tag, but maybe something where he takes care of lwj or comforts or supports him in adulthood (cause when lwj is shown with a support system it’s usually primarily lxc, so I’m wondering if there’s anything with lqr)? Thanks!

When You Finally Find Your Family Series by Eleanor_Fenyx (T, 56k, WIP, WangXian, descriptions of canon events, Fix-It, Autistic coded LWJ, Canon-adjacent, Canon Divergence, Homeless WWX, Angst with a Happy Ending, WWX is a Lan) particularly the second fic which is a WIP.

For the last in the mood for, asking for good uncle lqr, I would like to recommend Iamnotawriter, they have really good stories that include lqr being nice to his nephews and wwx

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2. HI for the next ITMF can you recommend any time travel fics where YL!WWX gets put in post canon WWX’s place?? Fluffy if possible but any will do thanks!

ghost out on the water by twigofwillow (T, 14k, WangXian, Memory Loss, Curses, Angst with a Happy Ending, No One Is Having a Great Time, surprisingly helpful LQR, Best Boy Sizhui, Post-Canon) this is less time travel than a curse with memory loss (and sorry it’s not fluffy) but its an interesting take on what would happen if yllz!wifi suddenly took mxy!wifi’s place in wangxian’s married life

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3. for the next itmf, is there any time travel fics where any of the futures charas get to interact w/ their past counterparts and find them cringe? kind of like the vibe of Travel Back Down That Road by iSwallowMy_converse . thank u very much for ur hard work mods :D

From the Future for the Past by friedchickenlord (G, 27k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Time Travel Fix-It, First Love, Love Confessions, Fluff and Humor, accidental time travel due to one husband malfunctioning array, teen wangxian meet adult wangxian, Happy Ending)

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4. hi slightly nsfw ask lol but do you have any fics where lwj is like a sex god - like where he is just really good at sex and has a reputation as such. there is one pride and prejudice themed one that i’m thinking of but other ones like that are just lwj being known for being really good at sex lol. also only with wangxian pls and toplwj !! thank you <3

(our friendship) up against the ropes by daltoneering (E, 36k, WangXian, Modern AU, Friends to Lovers, Getting Together, lan zhan FUCKS, Fluff and Smut, Experienced LWJ, Oblivious WWX, Mutual Pining, Friends With Benefits, Pining while fucking, Oral Sex, Anal Sex, Masturbation, Spit Kink, Dirty Talk, Light Bondage, Praise Kink, Dom/sub Undertones, Kink Negotiation, Pride and Prejudice 2005 (dir. Joe Wright), mentions of Wei Ying/others and Lan Zhan/others)

Rule Number One: Never get attached. by KizuKatana (E, 130k, WangXian, Modern AU, A/B/O, Light Angst, Crime Boss LWJ, Rogue criminal genius WWX)

the earthquake in the room by phnelt (E, 39k, WangXian, College/University, Modern: No Powers, Canada, Getting Together, Mentions of lwj/others, inter-faculty romance, strangers to lovers to frenemies to lovers, mostly book characterisation)

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5. Do you know any fics where wei ying leave the cuitvatuon world because of how his treated. Like he gets tired of it.

Away from Trouble by Ilona22 (M, 15k, WangXian, Not Jiāng Chéng Friendly, WangXian Get a Happy Ending)

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6. hiii!! for iitmf i was wondering if anyone has any recs for fics where wwx has an eating disorder? thank youuuuuu @camppureblood

a kind of emptiness by ScarlettStorm (E, 11k, WangXian, Post-Canon, Established Relationship, Eating Disorders, Eating Disorder Not Otherwise Specified, Eating Disorder Recovery, tricking your brain into better habits, bad choices, followed by good choices, low angst, Happy Ending, Tender smut, Frottage, Praise Kink, Additional Warnings In Author’s Note)

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7. Are there any fanfics where wei ying leaves because he can't put up being treated the way he is. @chloecov4506

The Debts of a Child series by Hauntcats (M, 115k, jiangs & WWX, wangxian, canon divergence, not jiang friendly, angst w/ happy ending)

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8. For the next itmf… is there a re-telling of the story from jin ling’s pov as a children’s book protagonist? Have a great week!

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9. In the mood for a fanfic where wwx makes lwj laugh or smile for the first time and people are in shock or just whipped, overall just want some smiley lwj, preferably during cloud recesses arc?

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10. Hi! For the Next im in the mood for, do you know if there are fics where Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan survive and the Jins have them imprisoned so they can have a reason to attack Wei Ying? Thank youuuuu

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11. hello ❤️ for itmf, are there any fics where Jiang Yanli somehow leverages her Jin marriage into a position of power to help her brothers, instead of the other way around where she was practically jgs' bargaining chip to keep both jc and wwx in check? thank!!!

Aftermath by KouriArashi (T, 57k, JYL/JZX, wangxian, everybody lives (except JGS) au, romance, developing relationship, family, attempted sexual assault, processing trauma)

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12. Hello! Thank you for all your hard work! For the next iitmf fic i'm in the mood for a modern au where wwx is someone who works with guns, be it a sniper or anything else, no thoughts, just shooter!wwx.

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13. I'm in the mood for SMUT, but not just any smut, I'd like any fic where lwj fucks a core back into wwx. Those ones are always fun 👌 Love you all! ❤️

Always Light My Way by cqlorphan (E, 27k, wangxian, post-canon, getting together, friends w/ benefits to lovers, jealous WWX, misunderstanding, pining while fucking, switch wangxian, bottom LWJ, smut, dual cultivation, archer WWX, smart WWX, oblivious LWJ, angst w/ happy ending)

in defense of lightning by fruitys (E, 15k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Hurt/Comfort, Light Angst, Golden Core Reveal, Getting Together, First Time, Dual Cultivation)

mercy, tear it down. by orange_crushed (E, 31k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Dual Cultivation, Light BDSM, In Which Wangxian Fumble Towards An Understanding of D/S Dynamics, Porn with Feelings, Recovery, Angst with a Happy Ending, Wangxian-Typical CNC Play, Aftercare, Slight Feminization (ie Wei Ying Keeps Saying ‘Wife’), True Love, Past LWJ/Other)

i had to abandon myself (you took all of me) by justdoityoufucker (E, 27k, WIP, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Novel Characterizations, Philosophy, Illnesses, Chronic Pain, Cultivation Sect Politics, Dual Cultivation, LWJ fucks a core into WWX, On Hiatus)

24 Hours by tailor31415 (E, 5k, WangXian, post-novel, PWP, But there’s a little plot, Bondage, Prostate Milking, Dual Cultivation) LWJ fucks a golden core into WWX in a lengthy and elaborate ritual (and, as a good Dom and Shixiong, sees that he’s fed, relaxed, and hydrated, and spots him throughout for both sub drop and qi deviation.

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14. hello! ive just read Twelve Moons and a Fortnight by stiltonbasket and i am absolutely fascinated about the idea of yunmeng jiang sect leader wwx. most fics ive read with sect leader wwx, he has his own sect. so im wondering if there are other fics where wwx is sect leader jiang. thanks for all your hard work!

The River Runs Forever by Cerusee (T, 136k, wangxian, JYL & WWX & JC, NHS/JYL, WWX & NHS, character death, BAMF WWX, inventor WWX, sect leader WWX, WIP)

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15. Just read golden as they come (but he's bleeding out) and would love anything similar for an ITMF! Or just any v angst golden core/trauma reveals! Thank you!!

Drowning in the Sun by Zelos (T, 8k, JC & WWX, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Golden Core Transfer, Brotherly Love, Sunshot Campaign, Family Dynamics, Grief/Mourning, Angst, Twin Prides of Yúnmèng Feels, Twin Prides of Yúnmèng Dynamics, [Podfic] Drowning in the Sun by flamingwell)

Listen to the Ocean (Hear it Break) by TheQueen (T, 3k, ChengQing, JC & WWX, WQ & WN, Canon Divergence, Golden Core Reveal, Character Study, Unreliable Narrator, Angst, Hurt No Comfort, Angry Grape Boy hurts everyone around him and himself, Twin Prides of Yúnmèng Feels, Family Dynamics) close, very angsty moments right *after* a golden core reveal

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16. Do you have any ATLA crossovers because I can’t find any unfortunately

Avatar: The Untamed Waterbender by KouriArashi (T, 181k, wangxian, JC/WQ, JC & WWX & JYL, Avatar fusion, action/adventure, families of choice, light angst, developing relationship, hurt/comfort, pining)

this world (what I make of it) by glitteringmoonlight (T, 22k, WIP, LSZ & WWX, WangXian, Avatar & Benders Setting, Avatar (TV) Fusion, Avatar LSZ, Light Angst, aftermath of a war, wangxian occurs but through lsz's pov, and only after a while, Teacher WWX)

as of 3:19 AM EST on 11/22/2022, the tag Alternate Universe - Avatar & Benders Setting yields 22 works for Mo Dao Zu Shi and 20 for The Untamed (TV), mostly overlapping.

Sparks by Anonymous (G, 679, XiCheng, Fluff, Getting Together, Inspired by Avatar: The Last Airbender, Crossover, Love Confessions) Firebender! JC (mixed-race Water Tribe shidi to Avatar! WWX) training under Air Nomad! LXC

Book One: Water by Dont_do_sadness (M, 43k, WIP, WangXian, Avatar & Benders Setting, Fusion, LWJ is the avatar, JC is So Done and very sassy, Found Family Dynamics, chosen family, Friendship, Slow Burn, Genderfluid NHS, NHS is a Kyoshi Warrior, Protective WQ) Air Avatar LWJ; Southern Water Tribe Jiangs; Earth Kingdom Nies; Fire Nation Jin Sect and Northern Water Tribe Wen Sect for a change

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17. I would love some fic recs where both Jades are autistic and not just Wangji! Thank you!! 💜 @the-vaguely-shifting-void

Falling Headlong by floraidh (T, 35k, wangxian, modern, college/university au, skater au, first meetings, first kiss, getting together, autistic LWJ, drunkji) both jades are autistic, but the focus is on lan zhan.

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If you didn’t get an answer to your ask here, don’t forget to make use of @mdzs-kinkmeme and MDZS KINK MEME on Dreamwidth. Authors actually do use them for ideas. You may get what you order!***Your prompt doesn’t have to be kink! Fluff, crack, whatever - it’s all good!***

#wangxian #mdzs #wangxian fic recs #i'm in the mood for a fic #the untamed #wangxian fic search #wangxianficfinder #long post

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aoxue · 9 months

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no but also 3chen 3zun and songxiao 💖💖💖

Ask game

Going in reverse order! 💖

Ship: SONGXIAO

Ship it? I am a songxiao fan first and a MDZS fan second

1) What made you ship it? Those like, two minutes in CQL where it is revealed that Xiao Xingchen dug out his eyes and gave them to Song Lan and then immediately proceeds to kill Song Lan. And then after, watching XXC kill himself and destroy his soul after learning what he's done to SL, and SL going off to care for and nurture what's left of him for the next eternity. It is peak drama out here for these men. Shakespeare kind of nonsense. It did take reading up on details from the novel, since CQL does miss out on some of the key details (as most of the adaptations do), for all the pieces to come together. But then after that, also reading a lot of fixit fic! I have been gone for them ever since

2) What are your favorite things about the ship? It's about the mutual love, trust, and respect. It's the terrible selflessness. It's the devotion that transcends death itself. It's about having your own life with your own tasks and motivations and morals, but being so lucky as to find another person who understands you and is in sync enough that you can walk your paths side by side and work together toward the dreams you create together. And yet it's also about literally losing pieces of yourself for the sake of another person. It's about horrific acts done out of love with only the best intentions at heart. It's the way none of this tragedy would have befallen them if they didn't care about each other so damn much. It's two very attractive and extremely competent and good-hearted men in the most yin/yang relationship I've ever seen. It's the purported universal touch aversion with one (1) special exception. (This is fanon, but I really love the explicit conversations about consent and boundaries that these two have in fic, even for something as simple as holding hands. Aspec songxiao, also a great flavor.) It's the watching, dumbfounded, as the guy you like splits his sides laughing at wuxia China's most mediocre joke. It's home being another person. It's A-Qing getting to have two dads. I could go on.

3) Is there an unpopular opinion you have about this ship? As much as I think about these guys, probably multiple! I disagree when people say the relationship was weak to have fallen apart so easily, or when people vilify Song Lan for acting the way he did in the aftermath of the Baixue massacre. It's as if an outside entity carried out extreme acts of violence specifically tailored to ruin these guys' lives in the most hurtful way possible. I think that'd put, like, at least a little strain on any relationship between two people, probably. It might also make the direct victim of some of this violence a little upset, and perhaps liable to say a thing or two he doesn't mean in the heat of the moment. Seeing as he is a human person. Who knows.

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Ship: 3ZUN

Ship it? Yes, but only casually, I admit

1) What made you ship it? As a CQL native, the dynamics are clearly worked into the show, especially xiyao, as well as some nieyao, and they make an impact, for sure. But honestly, a large part of it also comes from the 3zun fanwork I've seen people produce? There is some STELLAR stuff out there about these guys. It's helped win me over.

2) What are your favorite things about the ship? It's the way all three of them would like to make things work, and all three of them care about each other, but each have their own approaches to life that are so in conflict with the others. This post sums it up really well for me: NMJ was raised to live honorably and die young, JGY was raised to survive and be secure, and LXC was raised to take responsibility for everyone around him. I really like the xiyao dynamics of "I've done every evil thing someone can do, but you are the one living person I hold sacred" and "you helped me at my lowest and I see you the way nobody else does (which is simultaneously a truer version of you and STILL ALSO an awful facade)." The utter betrayal while still genuinely caring for a person and then dying in front of them, leaving them to unpack all of that on their own for the next however many years. nielan presumably hit the sect heirs to friends to lovers/sect leaders thrust into power too young and dealing with the heavy weight of what their fathers left behind beats. nieyao had something going for them before it all went sideways and pretty soon you're monologuing to your ex's severed head in your secret evil lair/closet. Not a great look, Yaoyao

3) Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship? I know that's part of the appeal for some people, but once we move from Meng Yao to Jin Guangyao, the nieyao leg of 3zun gets a pretty dicey and it becomes a harder sell for me. When JGY's main objective becomes maintaining a secure position in the Jin clan (including defaulting to JGS's opinions, which NMJ is known to disagree with, vocally, and semi-frequently), it's hard for me to get them to a place where I'd find them compatible enough to ship. And certainly when JGY starts to sabotage NMJ, that's a total no-go for me :/ I'm keeping them away from each other

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Ship: 3CHEN

Ship it? Yes!

1) What made you ship it? I don't actually remember an inciting incident, exactly? I am sure it had to do with happenings on the lanlan discord. Probably comes down to being a lanlan appreciator, but also songxiao being my #1 at the end of the day, and wanting, as ever, for Song Lan to catch a break, perhaps even some slack. I really do think these three would work very well together, especially after all they've been through by the end of MDZS. There is so much healing they can do together. They've all been dealt a really rough, but kind of similar, hands. Lan Xichen and Song Lan have the grief and survivor guilt over their respective dear friends/bfs that they can process together (and for the ship to work, I think this step needs to come first before XXC reenters the picture). Lan Xichen and Xiao Xingchen both had their good faith taken advantage of, which led to the deaths of innocent people and men they loved, and they have similar guilt to process. Song Lan and Xiao Xingchen have their shared history (see: everything above), and they're dealing with different sides of the same traumatic events; they also have a lot of work to do to learn how to exist around each other again comfortably. Put all 3 of these guys in the same place, and you have a lot to work with, I think. Also, Song Lan has two hands (let him have two beautifully kind and loving boyfriends)

2) What are your favorite things about the ship? The dynamics and healing potential explained above! But also, I think the characters are fun together. They're all good boys who would all love and support each other. They're all enormously skilled cultivators, and would be a match for each other in that regard. None of them care about social status in their judgements of people. Xichen is well versed in sect politics and policy, while songxiao are the type to effect change through direct, small-scale action, with Song Lan being the more practical and Xiao Xingchen being less limited by societal expectations; working together, they could improve things for a lot of people more effectively than they could apart. I like Song Lan's steady, serious devotion with Xiao Xingchen's softness and light silly streak and Lan Xichen's good humor and patience. I like Song Lan being able to step outside when he's had enough touch for the moment while his bfs can keep getting their cuddles in, and then blushing as hard as a fierce corpse can when he comes back indoors and gets one little kiss on the cheek from each of them.

3) Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship? It's a small ship, so I'm not sure… But I think A-Qing should be in the 3chen picture. (I also think this about post-canon Yi City fixits generally.) If you're working in canon conditions, and you're doing the work to resurrect Xiao Xingchen in some creative way or another, why wouldn't you bring A-Qing along, too. She's probably easier to bring back than XXC. She also deserves better. She could have THREE dads. Imagine

#asks #songxiao #3chen #yeahhh i'm not gonna put this in the 3zun tag lol #ily thank you! <3 #aoxue.txt

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truly-morgan · 8 months

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[outlaw comboy!JC and sheriff!LXC]

XiCheng | Mo Dao Zu Shi Western AU 01-11-2021

[#xicheng, cowboy and sheriff]

Jiang Cheng was known throughout the whole land, most people knew him under the nickname of Sandu SengShou. He has a large sum put on his head, yet no bounty hunter nor any sheriff managed to capture him for a long time.

He is always seen in black clothing, helping him disappear into the night, with some subtle purple accents added to it.

Everywhere he goes he is riding his loyal horse zidian, a wild thing he managed to tame and only he can ride onto without being thrown off immediately.

And this fearsome man was now in gusu, going from village to village, stealing, fighting, gambling and drinking. He truly was a wild force of nature, nothing able to stop him from doing whatever he wanted to do.

This is why Sheriff Lan Xichen had been proud of himself for catching him with his lasso, throwing him off of his horse, his man stopping the wild animal. He nearly missed the worried glance he gave to his horse, only to instead sneer at lxc.

lxc was pretty used to criminals giving him rather snide and rude remarks, not that affected buy the one jc was using with him. "I didn't know that one of the great lan was into this kind of game" he remarked once, laughing at the blush creeping on lxc cheek as he was tying him up tightly in his cell, trying to keep him from reaching anything or moving around too much.

Sandu SehngShou also had the reputation of somehow escaping from anywhere.

but it is not in jc plans than to wait quietly and die in this jail, especially not when he is most likely to be executed for his crimes.

So he does what he knows works well on a man like lxc: he teases him and tries to seduce him. He knows his thing, it always works.

the first two days lxc is rather wary of jc, only to slowly relax on the third day of watching over him as other people are coming here for him. jc makes a show of trying to get out of his bond (as if he hadn't already loosened the thing up ready to go).

he talks and talks, teasing and taunting lxc, trying to get (rather cute) reactions out of him.

"Hey Mr sheriff, why don't you come closer so we can talk more intimately" jc suggest when he finally managed to lead lxc on a more exciting road.

lxc makes the mistake of thinking this was a safe thing to do, joining jc in his cell. jc looks up to him, a smirk on his lips, looking as if he was daring him to do something.

So he does, gently cupping his cheeks as if jc was fragile, kissing him. (jc is a bit taken aback by how sweet and gentle it is, but quickly gets over how he enjoys it).

He lets lxc leads a bit, let him forget what situation they are in exactly, who he is kissing right now.

jc would lie if he said he didn't want to stay longer to see what this (admittedly handsome) sheriff would do with him, but he does intend on living and staying longer after five days is no good.

so he attacks lxc by surprise as he kisses down his jaw and neck,

pinning the taller man to the ground, skillfully and quickly binding his wrist and arms behind his back. "I do have to admit, you are a good kisser, mister Sheriff" jc chuckles, giving one last kiss to lxc as he steals his keys, quickly getting out of the cell and getting his belonging.

It is not hard to find zidian and steal her back, soon riding off into the desert before anyone could come to help lxc.

all the sheriff can do is run outside with his arm still bound, looking into the sunset where the silhouette of the criminal is slowly getting smaller and smaller. lxc clenches his jaw, regretting being so naive, yet not hating the lingering feeling of lips against his.

unlike what he usually does, jc does dare glance back towards them, seeing lxc getting out of the sheriff's office.

He has a tight feeling in his chest, feeling saddened in a way to be leaving lxc behind. What a fool he is to fall like this for someone.

at least his week in the cloud recess had been pleasant and he won't be forgetting about lxc anytime soon. Maybe they would meet again.

of course, lxc cannot possibly let this humiliation live like this. He was the one to be bewitched by the beautiful and cunning criminal. He now has to go and find him again to capture him correctly this time (of course there's no other reason behind this).

and so he leaves the village into his brother's hand, knowing he would be well-fitted to protect their home with their uncle.

And with this, he runs in the same direction jc took.

it is a bit hard at first to find back jc tracks, going by words spoken in saloons, rumours of where sdss was last seen. Anything could help him find him back. and soon he does, always a beat behind.

they do meet up at some places, jc making it more than known he knows lxc has been following him for weeks now, yet he doesn't actually seem bothered by this, more amused than anything else.

it's become a game of cat and mouse, lxc chasing after him, fighting him, and being seduced even more by him. Sometimes jc would allow himself to be captured, only to run away in the morning after leaving hints of where his next destination was going to be.

of course, lxc is not the only one after the fearsome sandu shengshou.

but he won't allow that. So he fights anyone who tries to capture him, not caring about the small rumours going around about some foolish sheriff chasing sandu shengshou and fighting off anyone so he could be the one to capture him. They are missing an important part of this story.

Then one of jc heists with a group of criminals actually goes really wrong and lxc does manage to pull him out of there. They hide in a cave in the desert, lxc tending to his gunshot wound.

lxc always treats him well, yet it always feels strange to jc to be treated so well and so gently. But he knows he cannot stay by lxc side, be it for the man's reputation or because what he managed to steal would only attract people who would hurt him badly.

something in jc truly wants to believe lxc words when he says he will take care of him if he accepts to come back with him, that nothing would ever happen again. "We could be so happy, I would make sure you have everything you want," lxc says.

it warms jc, to hear someone promising something like this to him. no one ever did it so honestly before, as if he was really ready to do anything for him.

"I'd... love to see that" jc whispers with a smile. It truly does sound like something nice. leaving behind his dangerous lifestyle, settling down, even if only for a couple of years, and being loved by someone.

but he knows better than to allow himself something like this.

when lxc wakes up the next morning, the place next to him is already cold and there is no trace of the injured jc. No hints were left behind this time, only the coldness of the desert morning lingering in the cave and memories of sweet words whispered in the night.

but he cannot give up, he went for so long already travelling around the land, chasing after his beloved, he cannot give up now.

But it is hard to do so. He realises how much jc must have left behind for him to hear and follow.

words of the fearsome sandu shengshou get scarce, slowly rumours of him dying after his last heists gone wrong travel from saloon to saloon, some people even rejoicing such a criminal to die.

but lxc doesn't listen to them, he simply cannot.

His beloved must still be alive.

So he travels, following dead ends, grasping at anything that could bring him back to his pretty and cunning cowboy.

lxc hopes slowly die after months of searching days and nights, looking for everything. He did find impostors slandering his beloved name (which he punished them for), but nothing about eth real jc.

after the latest dead-end that leads him to another impersonator, lxc is ready to give up, his throat feeling tight as he feels like he needs to accept the reality that his lovely criminal might have really died, be it from his injury or someone who wanted something from him.

he is getting ready to go back home with a heavy heart, packing everything on his horse when the neigh of a horse catches his attention.

As he looks up into the sunrise, he sees a man atop the hill, sitting on a dark horse.

lxc feels like his legs never made him run as fast as he does now, going up the hill as the man and the horse stays there, his hands fumbling for his lasso.

He is still catching his breath when he reaches the top, lasso in his hands and ready to throw.

his aim his perfect, catching the man he wanted to catch, pulling him off of the horse, arm locking around him tightly. "You caught me again, mister sheriff, what shall I do now?" asked the pretty and cunning cowboy.

"Why not come back home with me?" lxc suggests, receiving a soft chuckle at his reply.

"This sounds like a lovely idea" replies jc.

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(I did not expect to write some western would be so fun yet here I am, which also makes me wanna watch some western and cowboy movies now )

Original

#tweet archive #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #xicheng #lan xichen #jiang cheng #cowboy au #outlawed jiang cheng #sherif lan xichen #enemy to lover

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rcmclachlan · 1 year

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Wip game : Arbor Day!

This is another NieLan fic. It has nothing to do with Arbor Day, but it does have everything to do with trees! Specifically, one tree that has very interesting properties. The story begins when LXC and NMJ first meet at the Cloud Recesses as teenagers and NMJ is punished for assaulting a Lan disciple.

"I do not know what was said, but you needn't have… done what you did and suffer the consequences for it. It was mine to handle."

At that, Nie Mingjue glances up, and his gaze is so sharp that Xichen has to consciously stop his hands from touching his own face to check for open wounds. "Would you have?"

Xichen lifts his brows, confused.

"Handled it," Nie Mingjue clarifies. "At that moment, after what he said, would you have handled it?"

"I would have discussed the issue with an elder and let them remand the punishment," he says. It is what the rules would have called for, but the answer feels as though he's chewing ash. "As I said, you should not have, ah… laid him out."

Nie Mingjue snorts. "You're right. I should've laid them all out for what was said. If this were the Unclean Realm, they might have left the arena alive but they wouldn't have been much use for a while. It's hard to draw a sword when all your fingers are broken."

When his uncle and Sect Leader Nie had been apprised of the situation, the visiting sect leader obviously felt similarly, even as he acquiesced to his son sitting punishment. "From the sound of it, it was hardly unprovoked," he'd said. "If anything, we should be rewarding my son for exhibiting such restraint; he didn't even draw blood. Mingjue, when you threw the punch did you put your weight behind it?"

"No," Nie Mingjue had grumbled.

Oh, but Nie Mingjue had clearly wanted to. Xichen had watched him watch the other boys help Lan Yijun up from the ground, all four of them struggling to maneuver him in the direction of the medical building, but Lan Yijun was clearly too addled to remember how his feet worked and had to be carried on Lan Háo's back. Nie Mingjue's head never moved from its proud perch where it faced his father and Xichen's uncle, but his eyes followed Lan Yijun until the disciples disappeared around the corner, clocking their every step, and at his side his fist clenched until his fingers bled white. Despite the late autumn wind for which he hadn't dressed properly that morning, Xichen had felt warmed to see that predator's gaze go dark with unslaked bloodlust.

Xichen's skin goes uncomfortably tight at the memory and he shifts to try and stretch it out. "Fighting without permission is prohibited, Nie-gongzi."

"Number four," Nie Mingjue agrees. "Talking behind other people's backs is also prohibited—number thirty-seven. So is sowing discord—number one hundred and forty-three. And let's not forget number seven hundred and ninety: Do not take your own words lightly. I think he forgot that one when he started running his mouth."

It isn't funny. Assaulting a Lan disciple is an unforgivable offense, but Xichen's mouth twitches with a smile he can't stop from growing large enough to show his teeth. His top lip pushes up against the gum. A target.

"Number three hundred and fifty-nine: Do not succumb to rage," Xichen counters. "Number eighty-four: Do not bully the weak."

"He was weak. One hit and he crumbled like one of my brother's fans. Number forty-one: Uphold the value of justice. I think that one's my favorite; it's neck and neck with Concealed weapons are prohibited, which is kind of funny, because I've been breaking that one since I set foot here. I've got about thirty on me right now."

#nielan #wip game

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a-cutebird · 3 years

Text

this is so fucking stupid but —

some sort of cyberpunk/near-ish future sci-fi AU where NMJ is a personal trainer & LXC is the AI that helps him out (tracks his clients’ progress & health, makes suggestions for routines, etc.). over time, NMJ starts becoming more and more disillusioned about his dream to help people achieve their physical health goals and LXC becomes his confidante for those fears/anxieties/insecurities because NMJ figures he’s just an AI so like whatever it’s fine if he has a breakdown & yells a bit in front of him.

anyways NMJ catches feelings for LXC and it’s very confusing & weird for the both of them

meanwhile this all happens in-between scenes where NMJ is like, showing some office worker how to do burpees

#mdzs #nielan #nmj #lxc #nie mingjue #lan xichen #i've just been thinking about artificial intelligence!LXC a lot these days #think about it #it fits so fucking well #LXC is helpful kind and puts others first #and he is also truthful which is def a thing that would be hardcoded into an AI #it's perfect #his journey as an AI would be the same as the journey i wish he'd had in canon #that is #learning that it's okay to prioritize himself over others #learning that it's okay to stand up for himself #learning that it's okay to be flawed #and that he is deserving of so much more

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stiltonbasket · 2 years

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NHS would absolutely consider asking lxc to ghost-marry nmj? Thoughts?

After Lan Wangji’s sentencing and Nie Mingjue’s death, the obligations of filial duty—namely, those to do with marriage—were very far from Lan Xichen’s mind.

He had no desire to hear about anything related to marriage, much less when the prospective union being spoken of was his own. Lan Xichen’s blood ran quiet and still, untouched by the maidens people insisted on putting before him at banquets and conferences, and the man who held his heart was dead; so what could one such as him have to do with marriage, when no part of it would bring him happiness?

"Marriage?" Lan Xichen said coolly, when the elder he most disliked dared to mention the subject during a sect meeting. "What need do I have of marriage? Wangji has an heir of his own blood, and we have no shortage of children born to the disciples from my generation.”

“You know nothing of Lan Yuan’s mother. If she were even remotely suited to marry the heir of a great sect, Wangji would have brought her home and wed her decently,” Lan Yanjian returned. “And you must marry. Should you not be the one to set the example for those who follow you?”

Lan Xichen smiled. It was not a false smile, because false smiles were forbidden; but because it was not false, it was not very pleasant, either.

“I will consider it,” he said: which did break the sect precepts, because it was a lie.

He spent the rest of the day wandering around the Cloud Recesses, trying to find a comfortable place to meditate; but the elders and a couple of his distant uncles kept following him, and entreating him to meet with some lady or other to see if he might like one of them, so he sent himself a message talisman emblazoned with the crest of the Nie sect and used it as an excuse to run away to Qinghe.

“I hear you’re having marriage troubles,” was the first thing Nie Huaisang said, when Lan Xichen went into his office to greet him. “Er-ge, you know I don’t really understand these things, but I might be able to help you this time.”

“Thank you, A-Sang, but I’ll manage on my own. I won’t give in, no matter what they say, so why don’t we have some t—”

“I will be able to help you,” Huaisang persisted, “because I’m having the same trouble myself.”

Lan Xichen blinked. “Why?”

"The trouble is that I can’t get married. It would be unfilial for a younger brother to wed before his xiongzhang, and da-ge never got married,” Nie Huaisang muttered, mopping his temples with a handkerchief. “My aunts are afraid that if I marry now, without ever having paid my respects to a sister-in-law, my married life will be full of tribulations. My wife might even die early, they said, and then what would I do!?”

He sounded truly sorrowful. “You know I don’t need a wife, Er-ge, but that won’t stop my clan from worrying about it. Every day, it’s nothing but if only our Nie-zongzhu was married before he died, and won’t poor Er-gongzi be too frightened to marry even if he likes someone, and then Second Young Master Nie has no business getting married anyway, because he’s such a coward...but I think that was the time Jin Zixing came here to discuss the Moling trade route with San-ge. He’s as horrible as his brother, Xichen-ge, really.”

Jin Zixing had died that very week of some kind of disfiguring pox, so Lan Xichen reminded himself that it was a sin to speak ill of the dead and tried to focus on the matter at hand.

“But you and I are trapped in different mires this time,” he pointed out. “You’re not trying to avoid marriage at all. ”

“Not so! Not so,” Nie Huaisang cried, opening his fan so forcefully that it blew a lock of Lan Xichen’s hair back over his shoulders. “You are as close as my own blood brother, so I’ll get straight to the point. If I arranged a minghun for you and Da-ge, it would put an end to both our troubles at once. Will you do it?”

Lan Xichen nodded, stricken nearly dumb. “But Huaisang, you—”

“You’ll have to marry into the Nie sect, though,” Huaisang mused, “because you are the living party, and you can’t marry again. If Da-ge marries into your family, you’ll be at liberty to take a second spouse, and that won’t solve anything.”

“A-Sang—”

“And, if you married Da-ge, you could have children of your own without disinheriting Lan Yuan,” Nie Huaisang said triumphantly. “There! What do you think of that?”

“How could I have children of my own?” Lan Xichen asked. “I don’t want to.”

Nie Huaisang looked at him over the top of his white fan. “Da-ge told me what you two were planning before he died. If you still want to—to go ahead without him, I will consider your children my brother’s sons and daughters, and they will be his in the eyes of our clan laws. You wouldn’t need to break your wedding vows, and I wouldn’t need to raise my own child or wear myself out by educating an adopted one.”

“You want my children as your heirs?” Lan Xichen demanded. “I—you would take a child born to the master of another sect as the heir to yours?”

Huaisang smiled. It was a small, sad smile, more pitiful than any tantrum or hunger strike he ever had in the past, and Lan Xichen nearly began to weep at the sight of it.

“I always thought my nieces and nephews would be your children,” he whispered, “and I would rather have them than not. Because if Da-ge had lived, and you married someone else, he would have spent the rest of his life wishing your children were his, too.”

And just like that, the thing was settled. Lan Xichen was married the next time he journeyed to Qinghe, before the elders noticed that his parents’ tablets were missing from the ancestral hall; but when he bowed to the rooster that was meant to stand in for his bridegroom, the bird choked, paralyzed with what seemed like fear, and gaped at him in disbelief before crumpling onto the floor.

“It’s just stunned,” Huaisang announced, when he came over to inspect it. “Oh, look! It’s coming around. You can take it back to the kitchens now, Zonghui—but make sure to paint the tips of its wings, so the cooks know to leave it alone. We can’t make the poor creature into soup now that he’s been part of the wedding.”

Suddenly, Lan Xichen felt incredibly heavy. He could scarcely move, for his limbs felt like lead, and it was all he could do to straighten up and go change his clothes for the wedding banquet.

He awoke in a stupor much later that night, unable to make any sense of where he was; and when he staggered over to the nearest mirror, he was certain that someone else was looking back at him.

The face in the mirror seemed confused, too. It was his, without a doubt, but the will that walked him across the room to the dressing table was not.

That will took command of his lips, making them tremble and gasp with yearning; and then his hand crept up his side, unbidden, and cupped the soft curve of his own white cheek.

“What’s going on?” his lips cry, bewildered. “Xichen, why am I you?”

#nielan #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #lan xichen #nie mingjue #nie huaisang #prompt fill #nielan bodysharing au #this is *chefs kiss* delicious #if i do say so myself #my fic #REBLOG MY BROTHERS IN CHRIST I BEG #spread the plot twists like wildfire

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rynne · 3 years

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Morally grey? How people get to that conclusion when MXTX said, AND I QUOTE “Both WWX and LWJ are highly ideal characters, so there wouldn't be too much dispute on their moral standing.” she even mentions JC negative energy. People just didn't read the same thing we did (If they read it at all). She goes further to say there is not much special about LXC either, he sees through his brother and that's all. That to be able to do that doesn't mean it's the same with others (hence how JGY deceived him so spectacularly). She goes on and on basically going against every meta or whatever this fandom created. it's kinda funny how had they payed attention.. we wouldn't see how this is all just proof that people read too much into things just to satisfy their own fantasy.

Yeah. MXTX is very clear about how she intends this story to be read -- WWX and LWJ as highly ideal characters with moral authority. Readings of the text that undermine that are missing the entire intended point of the story. Like, you can decide that JC was in the right because he had to keep face and protect his people, and read the story with that understanding, but because that is not the intended message, you're going to be missing themes about standing up for the right thing even when it requires personal sacrifice, and so on.

The thing about MDZS is that there aren't really competing moral imperatives here where neither side is portrayed as wrong, just as having different priorities. That is not the central moral issue of this story. As we proceed through the flashbacks and discover what actually happened with WWX's downfall and death, what we discover is that WWX took a moral stand and everyone else put their own feelings of resentment and desire for revenge ahead of morality and treating people humanely.

This is not even ambiguous in the text. When WWX arrives at the Jin banquet looking for Wen Ning and accuses the Jins of wanting to be the new Wens, this exchange occurs:

Another guest cultivator stood up, "Of course it's different. The Wen-dogs did all kinds of evil. To arrive at such an end is only karma for them. We only avenged a tooth for a tooth, letting them taste the fruit that they themselves had sown. What's wrong with this?"

Wei WuXian, "Take revenge on the ones that bite you. Wen Ning's branch doesn't have much blood on their hands. Don't tell me that you find them guilty by association?"

Another person spoke, "Young Master Wei, is it that they don't have much blood on their hands just because you say so? These are only your one-sided words. Where's the evidence?"

Wei WuXian, "You think that they killed the innocent--aren't those your one-sided words as well? Shouldn't you be the first one to show evidence? Why would you instead ask me for evidence?"

The person shook his head, the words 'this man refuses to reason with me' written all over his face. Someone else sneered, "Back then, when the Wen Sect slaughtered our people, it was thousands of times crueler than this! They didn't treat us with justice and morality, so why should we treat them with such?"

(Chapter 72, ExR)

WWX's position here is clear. He tells them that targeted revenge is fine, but don't extend it to people who were not involved. He also advocates for innocent until proven guilty.

The sects' position is likewise clear. "They didn't treat us with justice and morality, so why should we treat them with such?" They want to resent and punish all Wens. They do not want to be just and moral.

WWX's conversation with JC that leads to his defection further underscores this.

Wei WuXian finally lost his temper, "Jiang Cheng! What- What do you think you're talking about? Take it back--don't make me give you a thrashing! Don't forget. Who was the one that helped us burn Uncle Jiang's and Madam Yu's corpses? Who returned to us the ashes that are in Lotus Pier right now? And who took us in when we were chased after by Wen Chao?"

Jiang Cheng, "I'm the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don't you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism? No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!"

(Chapter 73, ExR)

The moral positions here are equally clear. WWX emphasizes that Wen Ning and Wen Qing helped them, very significantly. They owe help in return.

JC acknowledges the debt and says that it does not matter in the face of the world's criticism. This is not a competing moral imperative that he claims, unless you want to try to stretch it beyond what JC is actually saying here. His objection is that people will be angry if they help the Wens because right now everyone hates the Wens. He does not want to take the world's anger.

Just a couple chapters later, we get a final clear statement of the intended moral message of this situation:

"But, let the self judge the right and the wrong, let others decide to praise or to blame, let gains and losses remain uncommented on. I, too, know what I should and shouldn't do."

(Chapter 75, ExR)

Judge for yourself what is wrong and what is wrong. Other people will say whatever they will say. Don't do it for what you will gain or what you might lose.

It does not matter to WWX if protecting the Wens will gain him the world's condemnation and result in him losing his position in society. The right thing is the right thing.

And what makes WWX a hero is his willingness to stand up and do the right thing. It is everyone who lets fear of the world's condemnation stop them from doing the right thing that this story frames as in the wrong.

So yes, MXTX tells us in the postscript how we are meant to read the story, at least in terms of WWX's moral position. But MXTX's words, while helpful, shouldn't actually be necessary. The actual story is clear about its moral position -- which is also something I've discussed from another angle here.

This is not meant to be a story with morally gray characters. If people believe it is, I think they're bringing their own assumptions in, not taking the text as it is.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #the morally gray discussion #wwx is not morally gray #he is a hero #standing up against an immoral world #deciding that actually you agree with the immoral world #doesn't make wwx less of a hero #or a moral character #anon #asks #wei wuxian

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vrishchikawrites · 3 years

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I can't help but dislike lan xichen because he called wei wuxian a mistake. I know he's a good character and he had ever reason to be upset, but something about that conversation just bothers me. I don't know why it does.

Hm, I get you. I think this is a clear example of a character's actions having a different impact on the reader than on the plot.

Plot-wise, Xichen's reaction is 100% justified. He a worried older brother. He knows LWJ loves WWX and has been rejected by him. He is concerned that LWJ would get his heart broken again. It is an understandable concern. When you look at everything objectively, we have no reason to be angry at LXC for his reaction.

But the readers have just gone through 100 chapters of people just having a go at WWX for every fucking thing, whether it is his fault or not, with not a single apology in sight.

That's why we see many people so unreasonably pissed at LXC.

It is just another thing that WWX has to silently accept. When he was kid, he was called a bastard and abused. That abuse goes unacknowledged. The fall of LP is laid at his feet, he has to deal with it. He pays off his debt and goes through horrifying trauma, that goes unacknowledged too. He faces a lot of injustice and accusations (a lot of times those accusations are baseless and spiteful), he has to accept and brush it aside. He does this again and again. Not a single person acknowledges that it was wrong to put a man through this.

LXC then comes along to say WWX is LWJ's only mistake. WWX again brushes it aside and focuses on important matters. But it has to hurt. WWX loves LWJ at this point. He just as to accept that the entire Lan clan probably thinks the same (with good reason in their eyes but that doesn't change the fact that it will hurt) Then we have LQR at CR post canon asking everyone to stay away from WWX. He brushes it aside. Look, WWX understood that the juniors turned and walked away from him because of LQR's rule and they would meet anyways. But it was still another injustice. Remember this point for me, I will come back to it.

Everything, he just has to deal with and forget. Not one time does anyone acknowledge the shit people just carelessly hurl at WWX and forget about it.

WWX being WWX, he doesn't care and will probably continue to live happily. But he has taken a lot of hits with no resolution from everyone. By this stage, readers have reached saturation point with the amount of BS WWX has to put up with and forgive.

LWJ loves WWX and that is the only saving grace in this entire situation.

LXC is like the last straw off the camel's back, so to speak. This is another careless, hurtful comment flung at WWX in anger and WWX is just made to bear it.

It is natural to be a little pissed at LXC, even if it is unreasonable. After all, LWJ is the only person WWX has in his corner (aside from WN). By calling WWX LWJ's mistake, LXC essentially said WWX didn't deserve even that bit of happiness.

But that is a reader's emotional response to the story. It isn't actually LXC's character at fault. He is being perfectly reasonable given how much information he has.

The fact is, readers are invested in WWX by this point and we're being told -yeah people just fling accusations and abuses at the character we want you to love, no one apologizes for it, even the kind older brother thinks he's trash, but the guy we made you love is just gonna shrug it all off and be happy because that's just him. And you can't be a little bit mad about it.

Lmao, that's a bit of excellent writing but it is also immensely irritating.

Now, onto a more serious observation. WWX is essentially alone and socially isolated at this point. Before his death, he had WQ, WN, and the remnants with him.

Post canon, he only has LWJ and WN and even WN rightfully chooses to live his own life.

We love and trust LWJ but that man has a rock solid support system. A brother, an uncle, a sect, society's respect, status, and wealth.

WWX has none of that. As attached readers, we're asked to trust a beloved character into a family where - one important member thinks WWX is a mistake and the other actively tries to keep him away from other sect members.

Then we're asked to trust that LWJ is all WWX will ever need. I can tell you- in marriage, you need a few people other than your spouse to stay in your corner if there's conflict. Even if the conflict is minor. The situation here is - WWX lacks a support system outside of LWJ. LWJ's family and the society as a whole will consider it ABSOLUTELY HIS FAULT if things go even a little sideways.

That, nonny, is something that people may realize and feel very uncomfortable about. That may be one of the reasons why LXC words hit a little harder. Because of course, the sect leader and brother's first concern is gonna be LWJ if there's an event where LWJ needs protecting from WWX.

But who protects WWX if he, in an unlikely event, needs protecting from LWJ?

(I want to make it clear that I don't consider WWX weak or vulnerable. He can take care of himself even if the entire world turns again him. and he certainly won't face any issues with lwj by his side. But it is a situation that can be a tad troubling if you look too deeply. )

#reader asks #stream of thoughts #have been thinking about this for a while

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plan-d-to-i · 3 years

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Great to see another person who isn't a JC stan! And the thing is, I like the idea of him being protective uncle and would love to see a reconciliation. But would I want one as JC currently is across all iterations? Nope. Maybe WWX continues to visit his home, but it's definitely not for JC's sake. He has a new life now and shouldn't be expected to be tethered to someone who clearly wanted him dead for years, tortured innocents, and was a terrible uncle.

The donghua makes him look even more pathetic imo, but by doing so, it also gives us a beautiful scene with WWX wanting to leave the past behind. JC going into seclusion is the least he could do (and personally, I was never comfortable with LXC going into one—though the man absolutely deserves to rest—so this kinda balances it out lol). Not every character is going to get their happy ending and that's okay.

Honestly, if WWX deserves to have a reunion with any of his siblings, it's Yanli. And no doubt she'd be disappointed in the person JC has become.

hahah hello other person who isn't a jc stan. ヾ(・ω・*)

I think it's great that mdzs doesn't have a reconciliation. MXTX did reconciliation between the mc and his friend in tgcf: Xie Lian & Mu Qing- but to make the reconciliation happen MXTX made Mu Qing quite different from jiang cheng. I never got the sense that it was overlooked or lacking in mdzs, but only that it's very deliberately not done. It's very true to life. There are some things there's no coming back from. jiang cheng ultimately led a siege against Wei Wuxian and killed people Wei Wuxian had spent years around, who he respected and had become familiar with and most likely loved. Wei Wuxian may not actively keep grudges, or hate in his heart, but neither is he a pushover. Honestly even if so much had not happened between them, they never had anything in common since young, their world views are completely different. They would have always drifted apart. Wei Wuxian was interested in helping others and jiang cheng cared only about helping himself. Wei Wuxian's home is no longer Lotus Pier it's the Cloud Recesses. He's accepted into the Lan Clan as Lan Wangji's partner.

The part of the story where Wei Wuxian takes Lan Wangji around Lotus Pier is really symbolic of him sharing his youth with Lan Wangji but also putting that chapter of his life to rest. Wei Wuxian sees his old living quarters have been torn down:

“Lan WangJi asked, “What is wrong?”

Wei WuXian shook his head, “Nothing. The place I lived in used to be here. Now it’s gone. It really was torn down. All of these are new.”

The atmosphere is on longer as warm and welcoming around Lotus Pier as he remembers it. Since the very first time in his new life that jc wants to kidnap him and take him to Lotus Pier (to torture/kill) WWX is aware that it won't match what he remembers. He doesn't want to go back to the tattered Lotus Pier of the present and now he sees it first hand:

“There aren’t many vendors left. Back then, no matter how late it was, this place was crammed with vendors, selling all kinds of food, because many people in Lotus Pier came out for late night snacks. There were also many boats, maybe even more than your Caiyi Town.” He continued, “It’s much fewer now. Lan Zhan, you came here too late. You weren’t here when it was at it was at its liveliest.”

Finally they make their way to the tree. The tree that WWX fell from when he was little on the night YanLi made him her soup for the first time, and he got along with jiang cheng for the first time- meaning the first night he probably felt some sense of belonging there:

“Wei WuXian, “But this one’s different! This was the first one I climbed after I came to Lotus Pier. I climbed it in the middle of the night. My shijie came out to search for me, holding a lantern. She was scared I’d fall down the tree, so she prepared to catch me on the ground. But what could she catch with her thin little arms? And so I still broke one of my legs.”

Only this time he leaps and falls into Lan Wangji's arms. Unlike YanLi LWJ catches him securely. Wei Wuxian entrusts himself fully into Lan Wangji's care, and Lan Wangji is strong enough to love and protect him wholly. They move on to their last stop in the Ancestral Hall so he can present LWJ to JFM and YZY, since he doesn't even have the ashes of his own parents, and as if things were not final enough jc busts in and effectively ends any (emotional) ties WWX might have still had to Lotus Pier.

“Lan WangJi, “How do you feel?!”

Wei WuXian didn’t answer the question, “Lan Zhan… Let’s go.” Go. Right now. Don’t ever come back again.

Lan WangJi, “Yes.”

That's pretty final. He reiterates that sentiment of leaving the past in the past in the Guanyin Temple, again while holding Lan Wangji's hand.

“Wei WuXian, “Uh, I think it’s best if you… also stop keeping it on your mind. I know you’ll definitely always keep it on your mind, but, how should I say it…” He clenched Lan WangJi’s hand, saying to Jiang Cheng, “Right now, I do really think… it’s all in the past. It’s been too long. There’s no need to struggle with it any longer.”

The donghua somehow, in spite of switching everything around, managed to captured the spirit of those two scenes very well and distilled it into one.

I too thought it did surprisingly well :)

#mdzs #answers #Wei Wuxian #Lan Wangji #jiang cheng

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xiyao-feels · 3 years

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i've seen takes that jgy started playing turmoil before the staircase, aka wwx comments that it would take 3months for turmoil to kill nmj (ch64) so obviously jgy started playing it a long time ago, causing all of nmj's anger, all of that was his fault.

but also the novel says that jgy made a decision on the stairs or gave something up then a few days later played for nmj (ch 49) and like...idk what that could be except for killing nmj, is there something else this could be?

is wwx right? is mxtx bad at timelines? is nmj kick 3 months in the past, what is the time between 49 and 50 (when nmj dies in 2mo)

idk this whole thing is fuzzy and if you have any clarification or insight i'd like to hear it

-🦊

Fox anon! I'm glad to hear from you, and I hope you're doing well. I'm sorry I took so long to answer this—I was trying to be thorough, you all can judge whether I succeeded.

Now, I think the first thing to note here is that WWX actually and explicitly observes the Song of Clarity working when JGY is playing for NMJ before the stairs (ch 49):

Since then, Jin GuangYao would travel from Lanling to Qinghe every few days, playing Sound of Lucidity to help quell Nie MingJue rage. He tried his hardest, without speaking even a single word of complaint. Sound of Lucidity was indeed effective. Wei WuXian could clearly feel that the hostile energy within Nie MingJue was being suppressed. And, when playing the guqin, the way that the two conversed and got along even had a hint of the peace they had before they fell out. He began to think that maybe the so-called busy reestablishing the Cloud Recesses was just an excuse. Perhaps Lan XiChen simply wanted to give Nie MingJue and Jin GuangYao a chance to ease their tension.

(emphasis mine)

I think this is pretty conclusive. WWX's observations on the spot override his conclusions after a) being extensively soaked in NMJ's anger/resentment (ch 48-50) b) the entire drama afterwards at Jinlintai including being stabbed through by Jin Ling (ch 50) and c) resting and recovering for four days (ch 63).

Moreover, let's look at what WWX actually says in chapter 63:

Wei WuXian, “Jin GuangYao’s spiritual energy isn’t high. He wouldn’t have been able to take someone’s life with just seven notes. And killing him this way would’ve been too obvious. He definitely wouldn’t have chosen a song so powerful. But, if he could use the reason of playing the Song of Clarity for ChiFeng-Zun to calm his temper and continued to play it for three months, would the song be able to act as a slow poison and catalyse ChiFeng-Zun’s outburst?”

He's asking LXC questions about Turmoil, because it's new to him and he doesn't understand everything about it. I think it's pretty clear here that he's starting from how long he saw JGY play for NMJ, and asking if that would be long enough, rather than definitively stating that it would have to take three months; nor is there anything in LXC's response ("… Yes") that suggests three months is any kind of necessary minimum.

So those are the facts at hand. And imho if you look at the text in the later Empathy, there's a great deal of supporting evidence as well. There's the moment you mention, where JGY seems to be making a decision:

Nie MingJue, “Then why don’t you sacrifice yourself? Are you any nobler than them? Are you any different from them?”

Jin GuangYao stared at him. A moment later, as though he had finally either decided on something or given up on something, he replied calmly, “Yes.”

He looked up. In his expression were some of pride, some of calmness, and some of a faint insanity, “I and they, of course we are different!”

I agree with you, he's deciding to give up on NMJ—and if it's something else, what is it? If JGY isn't giving up on getting through to NMJ here, what function does this line serve in the text?

And I think it's worth noting here, as I've noted before—when JGY is talking about how different his and NMJ's positions are, he says "Your background is noble and your cultivation is high"; and the "Your background is noble" part is 你出身高贵, with the 高贵 being the "noble" part. When NMJ is asking him "Are you any nobler than them? Are you any different from them?" the "Are you any nobler than them?" is 你比他们高贵吗—so the "noble" part is, again, the same word, 高贵. Given that JGY has just spent a great deal of breath explaining that he is different from NMJ precisely because of his less-noble background, this is very much a pair of questions that might quite justifiably make JGY feel like NMJ is just completely not understanding anything he is saying here at all.

Besides that moment, there is the way he approaches or interacts with NMJ, which is quite noticeably different after the stairs. If you look at the beginning of the stairs, he's trying to convince NMJ to let the XY thing go: he says that if XY is locked up for life and can't hurt people, this isn't too different from him being executed, and then when NMJ does not accept this, points out that it's JGY's father's command and he cannot simply go against it as NMJ wishes. Once JGY loses his temper, he is still presenting arguments for his position—which granted is now approximately "you're being a hypocrite and you don't understand things", but he is still arguing for it—that is, he is still trying to reach NMJ; he is acting as though on some level he believes he can get through to him.

But in attempting to convince NMJ about XY, he is not acting like someone who expects that NMJ is right about to die; because if he were expecting that, he could simply say whatever he likes to put NMJ off, knowing that he won't actually have to pay up. Similarly, in attempting to get through to NMJ via argument, however angrily, he is not treating NMJ as purely an object to be manipulated; NMJ's beliefs matter to JGY separately (I am not saying /only/ separately) from what those beliefs lead NMJ to do. To put it another way: he cares about what NMJ thinks. This too is something that prevents JGY from simply telling NMJ whatever he wishes to hear, and this, too, is lost at the stairs.

For after the stairs, telling NMJ what he wants to hear, and just telling NMJ something that will put him off because he knows or hopes he won't have to pay up, are exactly what JGY does. When he shows up at the Unclean Realm a few days later, he tells NMJ he's here to acknowledge his mistakes and that he's realized NMJ is "doing this" for him; he promises to bring NMJ XY's head in two months, and tells NMJ he can do whatever he likes with him if JGY does not. This is a significant change in behaviour from before the stairs, and in consideration with all the other evidence it seems to me that this is because, post-stairs, he no longer values what NMJ thinks of him, and he is now gambling on his killing NMJ before NMJ kills him.

The only area where he does push back now is NMJ's treatment of NHS, I suspect because he worries about what NMJ might do or continue to do to NHS in his remaining two months of life.

So: I really do think the evidence is pretty clear that JGY starts with Turmoil after the stairs, in that it is directly signalled by the text and in that all the evidence around it backs this up.

That said, I have seen other objections raised by various anti-JGY folk, and while some of them have more merit than others I think it's worth taking the time to go over them.

-JGY couldn't possibly have prepared the Turmoil music in the few days between the stairs and him starting to play for NMJ after.

Yes, I agree; he must have had it prepared earlier. But that only means that he had it prepared, not that he was using it, and while there are certainly people who will only prepare a weapon if they are sure they will use it, I really don't think JGY is among them. He might also have prepared it as evidence for his father that he was working on solving the problem.

-WWX didn't notice a difference between the music JGY was playing before the stairs and the music he was playing after; therefore, it must be the same music.

Honestly, I think that WWX just didn't notice. It's explicitly described as very subtle, and indeed he can't tell the difference between the altered passage and the rest of the song (ch 63):

Wei WuXian withdrew the flute from his lips, “It really is this section? But I don’t find this section different at all.”

And he again observes how similar they are in chapter 64:

And he combined them so well. They sound as though there were the same. His musical talent is indeed excellent.

His repeated observation that they sound just the same suggests that he could very well have failed to notice, I think, and indeed he would have heard the altered version more often.

There is also another explanation, entirely compatible with JGY only using Turmoil after the stairs. WWX says of JGY playing Turmoil that he must have "used little spiritual power" during the Clarity sections, and "only exerted power" during the Turmoil section (ch 64). So if we think WWX would definitely have noticed the difference, there is an explanation for how he nevertheless very clearly observed NMJ's hostile energy suppressed by the music; JGY might have been using his power during the (much longer) Clarity part, and only used a very little during Turmoil. Personally, I think that it fits better with the overall emotional arc if JGY didn't change the music he was playing until after the stairs; but I accept this isn't ruled out as a possibility.

I feel obliged to note that at one point, after I was challenged on the issue of JGY changing the music after the stairs and pointed out WWX noticing NMJ's hostile energy being suppressed, as above, I was offered as an explanation for the passage that JGY couldn't possibly have abruptly switched to Turmoil right away when he started playing for NMJ, because NMJ would have noticed that he was suddenly feeling worse; and that therefore WWX clearly feeling NMJ's hostile energy being suppressed was not really evidence that JGY was playing Clarity and not Turmoil before the stairs. But I disagree with this, on two counts.

First, it is not clear to me that NMJ would in fact notice. He does not seem to be very self-aware about the effects of the sabre curse. He explicitly denies it at the stairs, for example: "I am not [in turmoil]. I know what I'm doing" (ch 49). After he burns NHS' things, when JGY asks him if he's told NHS about the sabre curse yet, NMJ asks "Why would I tell him so soon?" even though at this point he is quite clearly being affected (ch 50). And when he kicks open the door to kill JGY in chapter 50, he seems not to think about the curse at all. Of course this last is moments before he qi deviates and dies and is therefore perhaps not representative, but it fits with the general pattern; I don't believe we ever see him consider whether his anger might be because of the sabre curse, and indeed he is hardly given to questioning the righteousness of his anger in general.

Secondly, and more abstractly...WWX observing the hostile energy being suppressed—"clearly feel[ing]" it being suppressed (ch 49)—may not be /literally/ incompatible with the idea that JGY changed music after the stairs. But a story isn't just a collection of facts, and I think by far the most natural interpretation of this, in context, is that JGY is playing Clarity and not Turmoil. Which is not of course to say you can't have a resistant reading here, but I think it's generally good practice to acknowledge when your readings are resistant readings, and especially if you have a resistant reading not to say it is the only possible reading of the facts.

-JGY has no motive for playing for NMJ other than wanting him dead.

If we assume rather that he doesn't want him dead, he pretty clearly has a motive to help keep NMJ's temper under control, both on a personal level (so NMJ doesn't attack or embarrass him) and on a political level (so NMJ doesn't lose it and embarrass JGS). I would also like to note that although it was some time ago, and it seems likely that even before the stairs JGY's feelings about NMJ are not as positive as once they were, we have seen JGY go to quite heroic lengths to save NMJ's life before, when he saves him from Wen Ruohan by misdirection and assassination then drag/carries his unconscious body rather than leave him there and make good his own escape.

-The stairs and the fan burning both happen before JGY starts playing for NMJ after the stairs; NMJ wouldn't do either of those things in his right mind…

I agree; the Nie have to deal with the sabre curse. I think it's worth pointing out, too, that aside from Clarity we don't see NMJ take any measures to try to deal with the curse, either directly in addressing the curse itself, or by preventing himself from acting excessively under the influence of the curse; it shouldn't be surprising, then, that the curse can cause such drastic incidents.

-…and the sabre curse wouldn't be strong enough.

This one really confuses me as an objection, I'm going to be honest. We can be pretty sure NMJ would have qi deviated eventually, Turmoil or no. NHS says this in chapter 26:

"The sabers of our past sect leaders were all heavy with hostile energy and killing intent. Almost every single sect leader met a sudden death from a qi deviation explosion. Their irritable tempers also had a lot to do with this."

(As a side note: the missing paragraph in the ER translation right after this has I think occasionally led people to the conclusion that it is the qi deviation and such that WWX suggests is similar to demonic cultivation, as opposed to the sabres turning murderous after the deaths of their owners—you can see the Taming Wangxian and the MDZS Translation versions for the full context of the exchange.)

So NMJ was almost sure to qi deviate eventually! Moreover, he would have greatly strengthened the sabre spirit through his extensive use of Baxia during Sunshot, and after the war he continues to pursue cultivating with the sabre, without, I think, any sign of moderation. And it seems likely that he is already showing recognizable symptoms of the curse by the time JGY starts playing for him alone, as Clarity seems intended to slow the progression of the curse and also like something relatively newly introduced—they don't seem to have been doing this since Sunshot just in case, or anything. So how then could we be sure that the sabre curse on its own would be insufficient?

-NMJ wasn't at all violent before JGY started playing for him

This is simply not true. Unfortunately we don't see much of him outside of Empathy, but looking exclusively at things that happen before JGY starts playing for him:

His reputation in Sunshot is about his destroying the Wen, contrasted with LXC's which is about saving people (ch 48):

During the Sunshot Campaign, stories of praise were told about all three of the Venerated Triad. The ones of ChiFeng-Zun were about how he swept over all obstacles, leaving not even a trace of the Wen-dogs after he finished. ZeWu-Jun—Lan XiChen—however, was different from him. After the situation of the Gusu area had settled down, Lan QiRen was able to defend it with great tenacity. Thus, Lan XiChen often travelled to aid others, saving lives from danger. In all of the Sunshot Campaign, he had countless times recovered lost territory and assisted narrow escapes. This was why people were ecstatic whenever they heard his name, as though they gained a ray of hope, a powerful trump card.

The description of his reaction to seeing MY kill the Jin captain pretty strongly suggests his initial reaction was to attack MY on the spot (ch 48):

Nie MingJue saw all of the scene. Without saying a word, he unsheathed his saber by an inch. A sharp ring pierced through the air.

Hearing the familiar sound of unsheathing, Meng Yao immediately trembled. He spun around, his soul almost evaporating, “… Sect Leader Nie?”

Nie MingJue pulled all of his saber out of its sheath. The body of the sword glared brightly, yet the blade itself vaguely glinted in the red shade of blood. Wei WuXian could feel the billowing anger from him, along with emotions of disappointment and hatred.

Meng Yao knew Nie MingJue’s character more than anyone else. He dropped the sword with a clang, “Sect Leader Nie, Sect Leader Nie! Please wait, please wait! I can explain!”

Even after he's listening, he ends up grabbing MY by the collar and lifting him up (ch 48).

When he's explaining what happened with MY to LXC, he announces his intention to kill MY if he ever sees him again (ch 48), and after MY kills WRH, saving NMJ's life in doing so, and is carrying him out afterwards, he grabs his sabre from MY's hand and tries to kill MY again (ch 49). He only stops when LXC physically blocks him, and changes his mind after LXC explains that MY was in fact a spy, and I think it's worth noting that WWX believes that MY would probably have died under NMJ's attacks before LXC arrived if NMJ hadn't been heavily injured (ch 49). We're also told the brotherhood oath 3zun swear is unusually violent, in a way JGY suggests, and which LXC notably does not refute, was decided by NMJ (ch 50). Finally, while this summary of NMJ's interests is arguably from WWX's perspective, it is still notable that the only two things he's apparently interested in are "training his saberwork and killing Wen-dogs" (ch 49)—which is to say, the study of violence, and a particular and fatal application thereof.

(Totally unrelated fun fact: I was looking at the entrance to the Phoenix Mountain Hunt for this too and apparently NMJ is seventh on the young cultivators list (ch 69). The more you know!)

I want to be very clear that I am not saying that all of NMJ's violence is unreasonable or not understandable. But that it can be reasonable and understandable does not mean that it is not violent; and it is certainly not the only reaction a person could have to the events he's reacting to. Contrast LXC, as someone rather on the other end of the spectrum.

-If NMJ were violent, JGY wouldn't risk his life killing him via Turmoil (and therefore NMJ must not be violent)

Even aside from the extensive textual evidence for NMJ's violence, I don't think this holds together. As shown above, I think it's quite clear that NMJ was in fact always a violent man, but there is absolutely no question that he's violent to JGY in his last months of life, and if you think JGY started playing Turmoil for NMJ before the stairs, then it's really extremely clear that JGY was willing to risk NMJ's violence in killing him! I think the clash between JGY's desire to live and the evident risk to his life from killing NMJ with Turmoil actually supports the position I am arguing here. Assuming we are agreed that JGY is attached to his own life, and as it's clear that as NMJ approached his end he was a danger to JGY (regardless of how that end was induced!), why was JGY playing him Turmoil?

I think the stairs make it clear to JGY that his life is not safe while NMJ is still alive. Using Turmoil, therefore, becomes a gamble he is willing to take, though still an enormously risky one: on the one hand, it appeases his father and enables him to promise NMJ he can do whatever he likes with JGY if he doesn't kill XY in two months (ch 50), a promise he obviously and understandably has no intention of keeping. But on the other hand, if NMJ doesn't die within the two months, he probably will simply kill JGY—and more than that, given his focus on JGY, he may kill JGY anyway, for some much more trivial reason. Indeed, this is exactly what almost happens just before NMJ's death, when he kicks open a door and attempts to kill JGY on the spot because JGY was complaining to LXC about NMJ's treatment of him; if LXC hadn't blocked NMJ's sabre, JGY would almost certainly have died (ch 50). But as risky as this gamble is, it is still a better bet than waiting around and hoping LXC always saves him when NMJ tries to kill him—especially taking into account the risk from his father should he do so.

-The stairs incident was good for JGY and bad for NMJ, which is evidence that JGY arranged it on purpose

...I have a lot of things to say about this position. None of them are very nice. However, as I am in fact trying to argue in good faith, I will attempt to address it as an argument.

I think this comes from a confusion of the fandom reaction to the stairs with the in-universe reaction to it. To people now, yes, looking at this makes NMJ look bad, and inspires sympathy for JGY. In-universe, however—when NMJ publically assaults JGY and tries to kill him, when he calls him Meng Yao, when he shouts he's the son of a prostitute, it's not /NMJ/ who looks bad. NMJ of course is righteous in his anger; really he's only putting that boy in his place, don't you think? I knew Chifeng-zun didn't really accept him. Etcetera. It /weakens/ JGY's position, because the cultivation world does not have the same beliefs and priorities and value judgements that we do!

Certainly if he'd actually managed to kill JGY he would suddenly have found that he had killed JGS's beloved son, the only remaining son of the Jin, a war hero, his own sworn brother who had saved NMJ's life etc etc etc. But only because then there would have been political advantage in it for JGS, and quite substantial political advantage too, and he wouldn't have to deal with JGY being around anymore. As it stands, all NMJ's actions at the stairs do for JGY is tell the world that he is vulnerable and weak and disgusting. The only significant person in-world who would find JGY more sympathetic after this incident is LXC, and frankly a) he is already deeply in sympathy with JGY and b) we don't see JGY playing it up—after LXC's appearance at the stairs rather he minimizes and soothes things, and even when we overhear his complaints to LXC around two months later he is talking about what NMJ thinks of him, and not the physical danger NMJ poses.

I will also observe that while JGY does end up losing his temper, he starts off soothing even through NMJ's first attempted assault, and only loses it after NMJ calls him Meng Yao and says "your whole thing stopped working on me since a long time ago" in front of everyone; this attempted conciliation seems an odd thing to do were he in fact trying to manipulate NMJ into assaulting him, trying to kill him, embarrassing him and weakening his position in public. You could argue that NMJ would be more angered by JGY's attempts to be soothing than he would by JGY's directness, and thus the soothing could be read as provocative, but this simply isn't backed up by the text; while NMJ was obviously already angry before JGY lost his temper, he nevertheless escalates significantly after JGY talks back.

Moreover...I think what NMJ actually does and tries to do at the stairs, in terms of violence, is sometimes not fully grasped.

The first thing he does once they're properly outside is try to hit JGY, though fortunately JGY manages to dodge. When NMJ kicks him down the stairs, even aside from calling JGY the son of a prostitute, JGY ends up rolling down more than fifty steps and acquiring a head wound—/another/ head wound, because he already had one, apparently from the physical abuse he receives at Jinlintai from Madam Jin. And finally, NMJ actually /unsheathes his sabre/ and, after LXC approaches, announces his intention to kill JGY:

Lan XiChen, “Brother, sheath your saber first—your mind is in turmoil!”

Nie MingJue, “I am not. I know what I’m doing. He’s beyond hope. If these keeps on going, he’ll do the world harm for sure. The earlier he’s killed, the earlier we can relax!”

(ch 49)

When I say that NMJ almost killed JGY at the stairs, I am not just talking about kicking him down the stairs, although that certainly could have killed JGY. I am talking about drawing his sabre on JGY with the intention of killing him. JGY would very likely have died if LXC hadn't thought they were taking too long and come to see.

JGY can certainly take enormous risks when it's necessary—but for a risk like this he would have to be gaining something extremely significant, and I remain unconvinced he was gaining anything at all, let alone anything worth the cost.

-NMJ's actions at the stairs and his burning NHS' things are completely unrelated to any of his previous actions and motivations.

In fact, although they're certainly both significant escalations, I think that in both cases NMJ's motivations and actions draw extensively from preceding characterization.

Consider the stairs. The direct classism is certainly new, but there are several other elements that have already been established as part of NMJ's characterization: the tendency to violence, the investment in JGY behaving correctly even while ignoring incorrect behaviour around him, the approach to justice both in his particular and frequently-retributive idea of it and in his commitment to that idea, and a failure to understand the realities of JGY's position.

The violence I discussed above, and the failure to understand JGY's position has I think been discussed sufficiently elsewhere and besides would be a full post in its own right. As to NMJ's approach to justice, you can see both idea and commitment to it in his anger to the men speaking badly of MY (ch 48) and his appreciation and promotion of MY for his accomplishments (ch 48); his initial intention to kill MY after he catches him killing the Jin captain (ch 48), his subsequent insistence that MY turn himself in to the Jin (ch 48) and his intention to kill MY for his betrayal after MY tricks him and escapes (ch 48); his initial insistence that MY should pay for killing the Nie cultivators, even as he acknowledges that MY saved his life and says he will kill himself after he kills MY (ch 49); and of course in his insistence that WQ and WN should pay for their complicity with WRH, even in the face of LXC and JC's defense of them (ch 73). And in describing LWJ as "absolutely [unable to] stand wrongdoings, possibly even more than Nie HuaiSang’s brother" (ch 30), WWX implies a great deal about the extent of NMJ's inability to stand wrongdoings. Of course, not all of these instances involve NMJ seeking violent retribution as justice, but a significant portion do—about half—and it is certainly a recurring theme. This approach to justice, I should add, is certainly involved in attempting to punish JGY for his misdeeds by killing him, but it is also part of why he is so upset in the first place: in NMJ's view of things, holding XY in prison instead of executing him for his crimes is failing to see justice properly done.

The investment in JGY behaving correctly, even while caring less about the behaviour of other people around him doing the same, is likewise an established character note. WWX concludes that NMJ's desire to guide JGY is one of the main reasons he agrees to the brotherhood (ch 49); we see his disapproval of JGY associating with XY, who already has something of a bad reputation, at the Flower Banquet (ch 49); at the conference after WWX rescues the Wen, when JGY backs up his father's lie about what WWX said about JC, NMJ seems to mark it more heavily than JGS' initial lie (ch 73). And then, of course, there is this, from the scene just before JGY starts playing for NMJ (ch 49):

In reality, it wasn’t that Jin GuangYao could calm Nie MingJue’s anger, but that since Jin GuangYao came, all of Nie MingJue’s anger would be directed at him alone, having no time to scold others. Thus, there was nothing wrong with saying that he was Nie HuaiSang’s knight in shining armor.

While NMJ's actions at the stairs are certainly not something he'd have done without the sabre curse, and again the direct classism is new, it nevertheless very much ties in to his preexisting characterization.

What about the burning of NHS' things? Again, many elements of the situation derive from NMJ's preexisting characterization; in this case, his tendency to release his anger on physical objects, his desire for NHS to be a strong cultivator and his angry displeasure with NHS' actual interests and capabilities, and his threatening to burn NHS' things.

Although prior to the burning of NHS' things it seems to be usually a momentary lashing out, NMJ definitely has a history of releasing his anger on physical objects. When he is annoyed at the men speaking badly about MY, he knocks down (or carves up? the English is unclear) a boulder at the front of the cave (ch 48); when he decides not to kill MY after LXC explains MY was their spy, he carves a boulder in half (ch 49); and he cracks the top of a table by bringing his palm down on it in the scene just before JGY starts playing for him (ch 49).

As to NMJ's desire for his brother to focus on and do well at cultivation, and his displeasure at NHS' actual areas of focus, this is perhaps one of his most consistent beats of characterization. We see it in our introduction to NHS at the Cloud Recesses lectures (ch 13); in NHS' plea for WWX's help with the test (ch 14); in LXC's message to NHS from NMJ and NHS' reason for staying in CR instead of going to Caiyi Town (ch 16); in WWX's reminiscences about NHS after discussing the "Man-Eating Ridge" with the "know-it-all of Qinghe" (ch 21); in NMJ and LXC's discussion when NMJ brings LXC NHS' sabre during in Sunshot (ch 48); and of course in the scene just before JGY starts playing for NMJ, both in his initial anger at NHS' preoccupation with the fans and uncertainty about his sabre's location, and in his dismissal of NHS as a "good-for-nothing" even after his temper had faded (ch 49).

The threatening to burn NHS' things, on the other hand, I believe we only see once, and really in the form of "instructing NHS to burn certain specific things of his"; but it is in the very scene before JGY starts playing for NMJ, as NMJ tells NHS to burn the fans he has just been going over tenderly before JGY interrupts (ch 49).

Indeed, I think that scene in general is very much worth a look here, for what it has and for what it doesn't. On the one hand, we do see NHS' fear of NMJ—he literally falls to his knees in terror, and stutters even after getting up! But he also seems fairly comfortable after the worst of NMJ's anger passes, and when NMJ sends him off he goes not to his room as instructed, but to the living room for the gifts JGY has brought him. Yet many of the elements of NMJ's later destruction of NHS' things are present here, and to my mind one of the most important things about the scene is its illustration of what prevents NMJ from carrying out the threats he made in his anger. It's not that he's convinced he's being unreasonable—indeed, he doesn't seem to consciously change his mind at all. Instead it is simply that repeated interruptions and NHS's ridiculous appearance as he greets JGY end up draining his temper, and with his temper drained he no longer pursues punishing NHS. But this has obvious implications for what might happen if NMJ's anger did not diminish, and I think it's quite clear how the behaviour NMJ exhibits in this scene could lead to NMJ burning NHS' things simply by giving him a more sustained burst of temper, even as it is not something NHS ever expected to happen, or something that would happen had NMJ's temper not been worsened by the sabre curse.

To conclude this section—while NMJ's actions at the stairs and in burning NHS' things are certainly unprecedented in themselves, they are nevertheless solidly rooted in NMJ's preexisting characterization, and it's easy to see how the sabre curse could lead to these extreme escalations.

To conclude the post, I think the direct evidence is quite clear that JGY was playing Clarity before the stairs, and I think the indirect evidence also significantly supports it; nor am I convinced by various objections I have seen, for reasons I hope I have conveyed.

#more than one tag could contain #anger burned in his heart #we can't change places #long meta #and thank you very much to confusion-and-more for looking it over + their extremely helpful suggestions and revisions #this post would not be the same without them

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vermillioncrown · 2 years

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look verm… all i wanna know is exactly how does lxc know univers-ity!zyx is a dancer and what kind of chaos he wakes into bc from what we know, she goes full thot while dancing… and if lxc spontaneously combusted when witnessing it

it's a long story, and you've uncovered a snippet! x10!

from the early, early stuff on oblivious university, it's noted that a source of conflict between lwj and zyx involves her dance group

the dance group isn't an official school dance team, so they don't have official practice space or schedules. the group was formed in this 'renegade' manner to specifically counter the competitive nature of university-level dance teams, or just dance teams following the popularization of competitive streetdance.

(while zyx loves doing it, the fact that the group isn't competitive puts a chip on her shoulder in that everything she does isn't 'good enough')

but back to the topic, the fact that the dance group (let's just name them 'the renegades') don't have a practice location means that they scout around campus or other places nearby that can: 1) hold a bunch of young people, 2) tolerate loud noises, 3) has smooth flooring, 4) has something reflective and large (mirror, windows, etc) nearby, 5) gives a modicum of privacy, be it due to the hours of practice (sometimes at 3am) or being out of the way

unfortunately, there was one month where the renegades picked a practice spot near the old music rooms. lwj enjoys the acoustics of the old music rooms compared to the uni's newer facilities. the renegades interrupted lwj's music practice (his 'late night' practice at 8pm to make his 10:30pm bedtime) (what fucking modern student sleeps at 9pm unless they don't have friends???) (oh no lwj :( ) so lwj was extra grumpy, came out to get rid of the noisemakers, realized too late he knew one of the people and could have talked it out more diplomatically

so on lwj's side he's also a bit embarrassed about his second impression on zyx as she is with him.

the whole time lwj is laying siege to zyx in the practice rooms, he thinks he's getting through to his (possible?) friend and has a chance to work things through

so he talks to lxc about her.

that's how lxc knows about her dancing.

to know is one thing, to witness is another.

this coincides with the first time lxc gives zyx a ride home. she's staying late on campus, crawling out from the crevices between the social sciences buildings that the renegades used for practice that night

lxc just finished up a late-night faculty meeting (he's a golden boy of his dept, so even as a younger grad student he gets to sit in on stuff)

sees her dragging her feet to take the bus home, no one's around, she looks exhausted and unalert

'i can't let my brother's friend find her own way like this'

(for as 'normal' as lxc seems compared to lwj, you bet your ass there's some weird standards of behavior for both brothers; being genuinely and overly concerned for your brother's friends is one)

lxc outmaneuvers her that night, and drives her home. bc zyx is tired, she ends up answering his questions with actual detail despite her vow to never let him learn anything about her

(set in-between these two blurbs)

once she finishes the current semester, lxc has offered to drive her home enough times that it's not too weird. (it's fucking weird but none of them are aware enough to notice)

he notices that she spends a lot more time on campus, and later at night. he catches her out at the drugstore near his apartment past midnight, and after his gentle but insistent pressing she admits that she was overdoing things a bit with practice ("it's not even a sprain, I was just looking for tape!") because the renegades expected her to choreograph something for them.

lxc is confused. "is no one helping you? why are you doing this after hours? how much are you expected to do?"

it's their first heart-to-heart on the curbside of the 24 hr coffeeshop.

zyx, for once, is honest and vulnerable. she owes lxc that much. and it's not like they haven't had conversations of substance before. and it has nothing to do with lxc, which in a way, is freeing.

"do you ever feel like a fraud?"

those words sucker-punched lxc.

"people think you're one thing, but you're not really that. you wish you were, though." zyx doesn't touch her drink at all, which is a first. "i like dancing, i really do. but i don't feel like a dancer like the rest of the renegades. a lot of them will probably join the uni team when they outgrow us. they actually watch dance videos, learn guest choreo, it's a thing. i don't do any of that."

"you feel like you're not a real dancer, because you're not doing things like them." lxc puts his drink down, and looks away. "i get it. and you feel pressure to at least pretend to be like them, that they can discover your... 'duplicitousness' at any time."

she gives a short laugh that's more like a scoff. "senior, how can someone like you know that feeling?"

he doesn't answer.

zyx sighs. she stirs the straw around, takes a sip, and mulls over his words. "well. yeah. so... it's not like i know how to come up with choreography. i also don't feel - i feel nervous if i have to come up with shit in front of other people. like, once i have something i'm fine with showing it, but i have to have something first. it needs to be worth looking at, first."

lxc knows. the perfect eldest son of the main lan family, there to right the wrongs of his wayward father. their family would have hidden away in shame for the rest of their lives if either him or wangji weren't worth watching.

"so... you need somewhere private to practice. easy to access, better hours."

"that's the dream, i guess."

here, at least he can do more to help. "my apartment complex - it has nice gym facilities, but no one uses it because they either go onto campus or go to private classes."

"not broke-ass undergrads, got it," zyx nods seriously.

lxc laughs. "well. yes, putting it unkindly, i suppose. but that means it has the space and privacy you need to... work things out." he thinks it's a great idea. they already carpool every week. eat lunch together. have overlapping gaps of free time. work adjacent to one another, even if they aren't studying at the same level or the same subject at all.

(lxc will pay her to come to tutoring if she takes art history again. never will he ever let her study like... that.)

zyx jumps up. paces around. looks at the storefront, does a weird... measurement of space with steady footsteps and arm span.

"... how big? does it have mirrors?"

eventually it becomes a regular enough thing. whenever zyx needs private time to dance, either to choreograph something new or practice something privately, she'll ask to come to lxc's apartment. he doesn't ask more than she offers to tell. he doesn't ask to watch.

the complex has a moderately sized yoga studio, as pristine as the day it was built because anyone into yoga that lives in the complex is rich enough to attend classes at the upscale boutique downtown.

and the borrowing of gym access turns into

"hey, you look tired; i have some tea brewing if you want to catch your breath before biking home"

"if you don't mind staying a bit longer, i can drive you back to campus" "... i can do some homework and wait. oh, let me tell you about that show you should watch -"

"hey, mind if i use your shower? i need to change into something for shop class that's not short-shorts" "sure, i have extra towels in the closet - yeah, that one -"

(there's even a day that she spends the night. not on purpose. but after a particularly grueling week, running back to back with things, dealing with both a lwj and wwx interaction, separately, that left her with hives but no one injured nor dead - it's no wonder she falls asleep at the couch in the minute it takes lxc to pack his oboe for orchestra.

from what zyx said about her midterms, she should have a break this weekend. so he leaves her on the couch w a blanket, and heads off to practice. if she wakes up when he returns, he'll drive her back to her apartment.

she's still asleep when he comes back, legs dangling and back contorted in an impossible position. lxc feels... off until he decides to move her onto his bed, and take the couch instead.)

the prelude to seeing something thotty was lxc catching the renegades during practice on campus. this week, they were in their rotation near his building.

He catches them at the tail end of everything, when members are lying around on the ground heedless of filth, some draped on the random assortment of chairs all over, and others were going through moves in a lackluster and joking manner.

"Yunxun, your ride's here!"

"Quick, speedrun any percent complete!"

Zhu Yunxun is one of the dancers still upright. She and her friend mirror each other, performing their choreography so quickly that it's more rambunctious arm waving and enthusiastic vibrations than any semblance of form.

"If you can do it slowly, you can do it quickly!" one of them yells, and Lan Xichen has to cough from a surprised laugh. The cough turns into a full-blown laugh when Zhu Yunxun and her partner grab one of the chairs for a part of the dance, and in their exhausted enthusiasm they end up falling over each other instead, and start kicking at one another.

"Is that how it goes?" he interrupts their 'practice'.

"You'll see at the festival," Zhu Yunxun groans, picking herself up. "Thanks for the ride, like always. I'll buy boba."

"Please come!" her partner calls out from the floor. "Tell your friends and family!"

"I will!" Lan Xichen promises. He's actually very excited for the fall festival - all his years attending this university, hearing of The Renegades but nothing in detail, this will be the first that he sees of their performances.

"Hey, I never noticed."

"Hm?" Lan Xichen looks up from the frying pan. Instead of sitting at the counter like she does after helping him prepare the mise-en-place, he sees Zhu Yunxun stalking around his modest dining table. Her eyes are narrowed at the furniture in a considering manner. "Noticed what?"

"These chairs are so... perfect."

What?

Lan Xichen turns back to the pan, noting that the mushrooms were done, and turns off the stove. They can wait a bit before serving.

"What does that even mean?" he prods her with a laugh. After these last few months, she has loosened up to speak her mind. Lan Xichen considers his life much poorer for the lack of her conversation before.

("'Why don't I like this?!' Limp noodle shit! Look at them! My grandma does taichi with more life than this!" she says with heated criticism. His TV is playing a dance that he caught her complaining about to her teammates, and he asked out of curiosity.

It's very much like martial arts, in a way. He doesn't understand it, but Zhu Yunxun is not the fraud she keeps labeling herself as. Not if she feels like this.

"Ugh, they're only getting away with this because they're hot and skinny," she scowls. "The Renegades have people three times that size with ten times more energy and appeal.")

Zhu Yunxun pulls out one of his chairs. "I keep telling Yan Xichao that we need to find better chairs for the choreo. The ones we're borrowing are 1) too flimsy, and 2) ugly as fuck."

"Sit down?"

Lan Xichen sees no reason to not listen.

"You got some real adult chairs, here, senior. Do you mind -" she kicks gently with her heel, demonstrating for him to push backwards, "- nice, padding the feet and all that, you must pay your taxes, too -"

"Would you like to borrow my chairs for your performance, Yunxun?" Lan Xichen stops her muttering; as entertaining as it is, dinner is getting cold and he'd rather cut to the chase.

"May I?" She starts doing the Nervous Fretting Thing, "I mean, you don't have to, I don't want us grimy goblins ruining your nice furniture, none of us have the money to pay you back - I can probably get Shen Yuan to pay, he owes me his life - but -"

"It's fine," he interrupts her with a chuckle. "I wouldn't offer if I wasn't sure."

"Okay, okay, okay," she accepts. "Um, just... can we check height?" Zhu Yunxun stands next to him, and squats to his seated depth. She frowns and does it again. "I don't wanna take your chairs if they're just gonna be too awkward."

He sits there as she moves around him, hovering over his thighs, reaching forward with her arms to occasionally check distance. It's rather awkward, with no discernable purpose to her motions.

"Wouldn't it be better to actually perform the moves?" Lan Xichen asks dryly.

"I just showered and borrowed clothes, don't wanna get sweaty," she complains, but still moves to start over.

Lan Xichen listens to her quickly explain his part - he doesn't have to do much but sit there, reclining leisurely, until she gives the cue for him to push back.

"I'll push, too, but you need to do the hard work." Zhu Yunxun steps away and puts on her earbuds. Once she fiddles with her phone and starts the song, the only cue Lan Xichen gets before she starts is a quiet "five, six, seven, eight -"

With the music in her ears and perfect execution on her mind, it's as if he becomes a prop for her performance. Not that she ignores him - she makes eye contact that sells the mood, she is unafraid to walk up to him directly, and she puts her hands solidly on his thighs.

It takes everything to not yelp when she makes contact, and even more of himself to keep steady when her sharp motions before are juxtaposed with the languid arch and drop Zhu Yunxun does in front of his seat. The pressure of her hands on his thighs change as her weight distribution shifts, he notes - she pushes his legs apart, a bounce on her heels, knees out then in, and another sinuous roll that ends with a toss of hair. That twists back into a standing position without any instability or effort, closing his legs along the way.

(For as clumsy as she is as her typically sleep-deprived self, her balance and physical control are quite apparent now.)

The next test of Lan Xichen's control over his reflexes is after a few more beats, and she seats herself on his lap with legs swept to the side. He hears her counting under her breath, "- lean in, six, seven, eight, then -" her left hand slides up, hovering over his chest.

"Loosen up my buttons, babe, uh huh -" she murmurs, as the hand then slides down and emphasizes the cadence of the lyrics with mock-pulling, as if she were ripping his shirt open.

When she pushes away, Lan Xichen has a not a moment of rest before she turns and swings her legs open, straddling his lap while facing away. Her thighs keep her from truly touching onto his legs like before - even as she does body rolls, arms and hands cutting through the arm in intricate poses ("It's called 'voguing'"), hair whipping close enough that the pink strands almost brush his nose with the scent of his own shampoo -

Then the arch of her back goes lax and she abruptly sits down onto his knees.

"Uh -" His face feels ice cold, but his ears feel like they were doused with gasoline and lit with a match.

"So tired," she complains, pulling the earbuds out and pocketing them. "I think that's most of the chairwork. If I have clearance, then so does everyone else. Or they can lean more, I don't care. I like these chairs."

Zhu Yunxun gets up, finally showing her fatigue in the slight sway of her posture. Lan Xichen reaches to steady her automatically, but flinches as he touches the exposed skin of her hip. The borrowed pants, his own sleepwear, started low and rode even lower over the course of the dance. Zhu Yunxun's own fitted t-shirt ("Always have freebies from school giveaways," she jokes) didn't cover that gap.

"If you like the chairs, just borrow them," Lan Xichen says, standing up quickly to get back behind the kitchen counter and plate their dinner. "Let's eat?" He glances over at her for a moment.

Zhu Yunxun is busy moving the chair back and setting the table. "Appreciate it - dinner and chairs," she says with cheer.

#inquiry #Anonymous #zyx au's #alternate universe-ity #just imagine most of the shuangfeng kids as part of the renegades #zyx and zxz have a very harmless rivalry bc zxz's actually a senpai from the renegades that joined the official uni team #'slutty chair dance' was what my dance group called it with affection #the guys were always like 'fuck yeah i get to sit there like a useless lump i love it'#okay there's two camps of guys in the group; second one was 'but I Want To Be The Slut' except the homophobic aughts were not ready for it #now on lxc in this snippet #zyx and lxc have gotten friendly enough that they kinda know what each other are like #(hint hint dbd lxc also finds zyx's singular focus doing a thing very funny and interesting)#(it's just that au zyx hasn't cried in front of lxc -> she's not precluded from thinking 'this guy doesn't hate me/think i'm weird!')#up to you guys to figure how much lxc is affected by this #'if this is the practice i won't survive the performance'#lol no idk #this is pre-moby-dick-sighting aka the big penis incident #to zyx lxc is friend/gege/senpai-shaped. car rides. good food. sleeper-hit-funny. good for study concentration. lets her rant.#also other twoset watchers: if you can play it slowly you can play it quickly

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madtomedgar · 2 years

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ok so like... i’m not citing text or claiming to have the Most Correct interpretation here but i’m going to just lay out my thoughts on the way i think jgy feels about nmj post sunshot. while i am aware that most of what he says and does in the empathy flashbacks is about appeasing or getting away from nmj, which points to his primary emotion towards him being fear, i don’t think that’s all there is to it.

because you don’t run yourself ragged and make mincemeat of your g-cal commuting between states to spend countless hours at your own expense to spend time with and try to help someone you just want to get away from.

jgy is absolutely terrified of nmj and doesn’t want him to be angry with him because he’s scared of being yelled at, hit, threatened, or having a saber swung at him with deadly intent. however, he also, i do think, genuinely cares (pre-stair kick or pre-???) about nmj and wants to help him, and specifically in cql help him get back to being who he was because he admired who he was before big sword brain disease took over.

yes deputy meng yao is acting as a good subordinate should, and yes his life in the unclean realm kind of sucks and nmj is not good at helping but, for the timeline of cql, he is possibly the first person to try. and it, and whatever happens after that, is enough to inspire meng yao to do something he has to know he’ll be killed for to save him and the nie sect, and then jump on wen zhuliu’s sword for him. you don’t do that for someone you’re just... tolerating, i would argue, especially if you have other places you’d rather be.

jgy very much does not have to go play for nmj. i think it’s implied that it’s a pretty big lift for him, and that doing it is causing some problems for his life. and yes, part of the motivation at first is to ease lxc’s burden and guilt around not being able to come but like... it really sounds like he’s going above and beyond. and yeah, if he can quell the saber rage, it benefits him because it’s less likely nmj will try to harm or kill him randomly, but to even do this, he has to go and put himself in harms way in a place where he has no hope of anyone coming to his defense. and again, while he does a lot of high risk/high reward things... this seems like not that to me. what it does seem like to me is that he misses the person nmj used to be and the approval etc he used to get from him, and he doesn’t know how to get that back really and maybe it’s not possible but maybe if he plays for him enough, maybe they can get to something that’s at least... nice? again?

and then he gets kicked down the stairs for his troubles and. well.

#untamed stuff #shameless jiggy apologism #i also think that the burning of nhs's stuff #is pivotal to his decision to poison him #because he would know better than many #that nhs is the person that nmj will never ever turn on or attack #and if nhs isn't safe around him anymore... is anyone?#every day i lose more respect for nie mingjue

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no--envies · 3 years

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I've seen people suggest LXC is as guilty as everyone else for WWX's downfall and the murder of the Wen remnants, either because he knew they were just a bunch of weak and old people and didn't care, or because he was too naive and he should have gone to the Burial Mounds to investigate for himself.

With this post I aim to analyse the events leading to WWX's downfall from the point of view of characters who acted in good faith without having all the necessary information. I'm bringing LXC as an example because he's one of the less culpable in the whole matter, but similar considerations could be made about several other characters.

First of all, as far as we know LXC didn't personally take part in the first siege of the Burial Mounds, since the novel states that the Lan Sect was led by LQR.

Back then, during the first siege of Burial Mound, Jin GuangShan led the LanlingJin Sect, while Jiang Cheng led the YunmengJiang Sect; Lan QiRen led the GusuLan Sect, while Nie MingJue led the QingheNie Sect. The former two were the main forces, the latter two could’ve gone without.

(Chapter 68)

The other three main sects were led by their respective leaders, so why was the Lan Sect the only one that was led by someone else? My own interpretation is that LXC wanted to stay with his brother while he was recovering from his injuries and he didn't want to be an active participant in the siege that would kill his brother's beloved, despite personally disapproving of WWX's actions. One could argue that letting LQR lead the Lan Sect in the siege still meant giving his tacit approval, which is not wrong, but what should be considered is that the cultivation world didn't plan a siege against WWX because he had taken a bunch of prisoners of war and sheltered them in the Burial Mounds, but because he had killed hundreds of cultivators at Qiongqi Path and a lot more at Nightless City.

Before WN lost control and killed thirty people at Koi Tower - the time he and WQ had gone to turn themselves in - the situation wasn't so dire for WWX yet. The Wen siblings' sentence was still being discussed by the sects. WN mentions that LWJ spoke up for him and his sister back then (chapter 89), which suggests the Lan Sect as a whole hadn't taken an antagonistic stance against WWX yet. LWJ probably tried to bring what he had seen of the Wen remnants and their peaceful settlement as proof that they hadn't done anything to deserve being sentenced to death.

Unfortunately, after that WN lost control of himself and attacked the cultivators who were present at the discussion, which gave even the Lan and Nie Sects a reason to hold a grudge against WWX, since some of the victims were from their Sects as well.

“The Ghost General really is fierce… Said he was there to give himself in, but then he suddenly flipped out. He slaughtered again, this time in Koi Tower.”

[...]

“Wei Ying, though, he shouldn’t have made him if he can’t control it. Created a mad dog and he didn’t leash it. Sooner or later, he’s gonna be faced with a qi deviation. With the way things have been, I doubt the day is that far away.”

[...]

“How unfortunate for the LanlingJin Sect.”

“Things were even worse for the GusuLan Sect! Over half of the thirty-or-so people were from their sect. They were clearly only there to help calm things down.”

(Chapter 77)

A few of the QingheNie Sect’s disciples died in the hands of Wen Ning as well. Nie MingJue spoke coldly, “What arrogance.”

(Chapter 78)

The text explicitly states that the cultivators from the Lan Sect who were present at Koi Tower were only there to "help calm things down", which means they weren't trying to accuse WWX and the Wen remnants. At the time, the Lan Sect's general stance about WWX appeared to be mostly neutral (the same could be said of the Nie Sect). LWJ's own attitude toward the Burial Mounds settlement could be considered mostly neutral as well, at least until WN and WQ (and then WWX) really needed his help.

An argument I’ve seen brought up often is that, if everyone had known the Wen remnants were just farming and living as ordinary peasants, a lot more people would have chosen to help them. However, the main issue wasn't how they were living in the Burial Mounds (which nobody knew except JC, LWJ and maybe LXC), but their role in the war. Not only were they all cultivators from the Wen Clan, despite being very weak, but WQ was favored by WRH, which made her involvement in her sect's crimes even more likely despite her good reputation. Nobody had heard of her killing anyone, but how could they be sure? Besides, the Lan Sect didn't owe any debt of gratitude to the Wen siblings. The Wen Sect had burned the Cloud Recesses and killed LXC and LWJ's father. NMJ held a personal grudge against the Wen Sect because WRH had killed his father, plus his own black-and-white morality made him judge WQ for not opposing WRH in any way. LXC and NMJ had no reason to go out of their way to help WWX and the Wen remnants, but before the bloodbath of Nightless City they didn't do anything to harm them, either.

We also have to take into consideration the world MDZS is set in; that is, a fantasy version of ancient China where revenge is absolutely justified and is considered an act of justice. Even wiping out entire Sects in revenge isn't necessarily condemned, since JGY did that for the alleged murder of his son and nobody criticized him for it until they learned of all the crimes he had commited and realized those people had most likely been framed by him. Xue Yang was obviously despised by everyone for what he did to the Chang Clan because his revenge was considered exceedingly disproportionate to Chang Cian's offense. Xiao Xingchen illustrates society's point of view on the matter very well when he says cutting Chang Cian's finger or even his entire arm would have been entirely reasonable.

So, as long as it was deemed proportionate to the offense, revenge was justified. Putting all the Wen survivors who had taken part in the war into a labor camp was considered a justified punishment in universe. The sects refused to admit the guards had actually abused the prisoners, suggesting that was going too far, but taking revenge against them by putting them in labor camps was totally accepted. Even WWX - who the novel portrays as morally correct most of the time - doesn’t condemn it. He himself used very cruel and ruthless methods to take revenge against his enemies during the Sunshot Campaign, so it would be kind of hypocritical if he opposed their punishment post-war. He does point out that people consider every Wen cultivator guilty by association just for being part of the Wen Clan, without really caring about the actual crimes they have committed, but he only rescues the cultivators from WN's branch, who he knows didn't take part in the atrocities committed by the Wen Sect.

Murdering the Wen remnants settled in the Burial Mounds was wrong even in universe because they were innocent. They hadn't killed anyone during the war and the Wen siblings' help was absolutely essential for WWX and JC when they were on the run. Without them the Jiang Sect wouldn't even exist anymore. This was a huge deal considering the importance of debts in universe and could have swayed public opinion in their favor. NMJ criticized WQ for not doing anything to actively oppose WRH during the war, but the thing is that she had. She had sheltered the Jiang Sect's heir and head disciple, the same people who contributed to the Sunshot Campaign as one of the main forces.

The problem is that no one knew about this except WWX and JC themselves. JC, who had the authority and credibility to defend what WWX had done in the prison camp, didn't show much conviction the one time he tried to speak up for him, so the other sects probably assumed he was just trying to excuse his right-hand man's inexcusable actions and that WWX had become too corrupted by his demonic cultivation and was too unpredictable and dangerous. When JC went to investigate what WWX was actually doing in the Burial Mounds, he came back saying WWX had defected from the Jiang Sect and was an enemy to the cultivation world (chapter 73), apparently confirming WWX had finally lost it because of all the resentful energies he used and was a potential threat to them all.

However, a really important thing to consider is that the cultivation world waited two years to besiege WWX. They didn't immediately charge to attack him or believe all the rumors about WWX. The sects definitely behaved like sheep, but they weren't that stupid. They knew most of the things that were said were probably exaggerated rumors, so they were just observing the situation and waiting to see what he would do. LXC, NMJ and the other cultivators who weren't in bad faith (those who weren't driven by their greed, ambition, resentment or jealousy) were all part of this general category. They had no reason to doubt JC's words, who was a fellow sect leader and WWX's close friend, and many of them had seen for themselves how threatening WWX had acted during the banquet at Koi Tower, when he said nobody could stop him if he wanted to kill someone, so they had no reason to believe WWX's reputation was being unfairly tarnished.

During the two years WWX spent in the Burial Mounds and nobody really knew what he was up to, a lot of rumors were spread about him. Some people thought he was trying to build an army of fierce corpses with their consciousness awakened like WN; others suggested he wanted to found his own sect of demonic cultivators and even took disciples, like the banners in Yiling seemed to indicate. They considered WWX a potential threat, but not enough to actually take action against him. The fact that LWJ waited months before going to check the situation in the Burial Mounds is very telling. He knew the cultivation world was at a standstill with WWX, so despite being worried for WWX he knew there wasn't any immediate danger for him. He might have been too busy with his own sect matters and going wherever the chaos was, but we've seen how LWJ behaves when he thinks WWX is in grave and immediate danger. The way he acted during the night of the bloodbath of Nightless City shows it very well: LWJ did his best to help as many people as he could, but WWX was his priority.

Of course, having only partial information doesn't excuse the sects for everything. They definitely had their faults regardless of how much they knew. They should have given WWX a chance to explain himself about the ambush at Qiongqi Path and the incident at Koi Tower instead of deciding to besiege him. They didn't even care if he was actually guilty or not of cursing Jin Zixun, or that he was the one who had been ambushed on the way to his nephew's full-month celebration. All that mattered to them was that he had lost control and killed hundreds of cultivators, including the Jin heir. They took this as proof of how dangerous and uncontrollable he was, which wasn't completely unfounded. He was dangerous when he wanted to be and he did lose control. Taking this information without all the context we as an audience are aware of - that he was only trying to repay a debt and didn't want to harm anyone, that Jin Zixun provoked him so much it was almost inevitable for him to lose control - doesn't look good at all.

Again, the sects did behave like sheep. The novel portrays WWX as the hero and his decision to rescue the Wen remnants as morally correct. Most of the cultivators who contributed to WWX's downfall were a bunch of hypocrites who couldn't see past their own self-righteousness. But characters like NMJ and LQR are portrayed as generally righteous people, so the fact that they took part in the siege proves not everyone was in bad faith. Nobody really knew why WWX had rescued the Wen remnants and his reasons for wanting to protect them, or why he had invented demonic cultivation in the first place. They just knew he did very questionable things like digging up graves during the war, that he acted arrogantly all the time and even started killing their own people. We as an audience know why he did all these things, but they didn't.

Also, after the bloodbath of Nightless City it was objectively hard to defend WWX's actions. He wasn't clear-headed at all that night and when he activated the Tiger Seal he was already in a half-unconscious state. His overall situation was too much for anyone to be able to stand it, but this doesn't mean what he did was right. The fact that he destroyed the Tiger Seal after returning to the Burial Mounds suggests not even he was proud of all the people he killed that night. WWX isn't infallible and makes mistakes because he's human like anyone else, despite being an overall heroic and selfless person. Even LWJ, who was the only one that still trusted WWX's heart and morals, couldn't really justify what he did at Nightless City. He only told LXC that no matter right or wrong, he was willing to face all the consequences with WWX anyway (chapter 99), because he understood his true nature and knew his outlook and values were the same as his own. But most people didn't know him as well as LWJ did. From the sects’ point of view, the bloodbath of Nightless City was the ultimate proof that WWX was the scourge of the cultivation world.

I'm not trying to say LXC is perfect or that he couldn't have done more, but we should take his own point of view into consideration when we judge his actions (or non-actions). LWJ didn't do much more than him during WWX's first life and what he did ultimately wasn't enough to save WWX (I don’t think it’s his fault, he was in an objectively difficult position), but the fandom doesn’t criticize him as much as they do with LXC, because after WWX came back LWJ's support for him was flawless. But LXC wasn't in love with WWX. He hadn't observed him since he was a teenager like LWJ had done because of his huge crush on him. We shouldn't underestimate the importance of debts in universe and how information in general can affect people's perceptions. Even LWJ stayed mostly still during WWX’s first life because he didn't have all the information and didn't know why WWX had left the bright broad road to start cultivating with resentful energies.

WWX is the protagonist, the hero of the story and the character whose point of view most of the novel is narrated from, so it's easy for the audience to empathize with him and understand his perspective. It's really interesting that even WWX has a good opinion of LXC and NMJ (and mostly respects LQR) despite their role in his downfall. It's not just because of his forgiving nature, since we see him criticize the hypocrisy of the sects a lot of times, but because he recognizes they were in good faith and they had their reasons for behaving like they did, despite the mistakes they might have made.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #wei wuxian #lan xichen #nie mingjue #lan wangji

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canary3d-obsessed · 3 years

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Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 23, second part

(Masterpost) (Other Canary Stuff)

Warning: Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

Nature Abhors a (Power) Vacuum

Jin Guangshan, Nie Mingjue, and Lan Xichen have gathered to decide what to do about the remaining Wen people and also what to do about the Yin metal. They have not invited Jiang Cheng to this discussion, or blowhard Clan Leader Yao, despite those clans having been hit particularly hard by the Wens in the course of the war.

The three of them have a conversation about what to do with the Wen captives, showing their different attitudes towards killing.

Jin Guangshan: Killing is awesome, particularly in project management. It's just so efficient. Nie Mingjue: Killing is necessary, and a little bit fun, too. Lan Xichen: Killing is necessary, sadly, but we can randomly spare some women or old people, as a token sign that we’re not monsters. Kind of like when you have a fancy dinner and include a tofu dish for the vegetarians. Nie Mingjue: Nobody likes tofu, Xichen.

Jin Guangshan says he's looking for the Yin Iron and that they can't let any Wens or "ambitious people" get a hold of it. By ambitious people he means Wei Wuxian, not himself and his murder kid. Lan Xichen realizes this right away but doesn't, you know, do anything to contradict him. Jin Guangshan says he's asked "A-Yao" to look into it. Which is smart, because A-Yao is already in cahoots with Xue Yang, who actually has the piece of Yin Iron they're looking for.

Getting Jiggy With It

Then Jin Guangshan introduces Meng Yao, now renamed Jin Guangyao, in a weird twist on generation names. He has given him the name of a sibling or cousin of his own generation (starting with Guang), rather than a name of the next generation (starting with Zi). JGS says that JGY just recently learned about about being related to him, although we know perfectly well that's not true.

And they both talk like he appreciates JGY's efficiency and helpfulness, but that's not why JGS has him at his side. He has taken him in because he is a steel-eyed murder bot, not in spite of it.

(OP does not believe that Jin Guangyao could have been a good person if only his dad had let him hold Jin Ling that one time, as some have argued. Dude killed his own child because there was a chance he might be disabled in a way that could lead to gossip. Dude is a stone cold killer.)

(more after the cut)

In the language of CDrama costume (which is not, precisely, the language of actual historical clothing), Jin Guangyao has chosen to dress as a minister instead of as a chevalier. This is partly an artifact of his mother's ideas about a gentleman. It also suggests that he’s content with the sort of career that's available to a bastard of a noble house--not inheriting the noble title, but having enough favor to rise in power.

It may also be a ruse to make him seem like he's not a strong cultivator and not a strong fighter, when in fact he is both, at least by the time he’s throwing death chords at Jiang Cheng, much later in the show.

Mingjue makes all kinds of grumpy faces and snarky remarks to let everyone know that he fucking hates Jin Guangyao. Xichen agrees to his “nice refugee camp with only a little death” plan, with no qualifications.

Now we get to see Jin Guangyao's manipulation of Lan Xichen. Lan Xichen says that Nie Mingjue wants a plan that’s more killy, because he believes in punishing evil. JGY deliberately misunderstands this, pretending that Lan Xichen said he, JGY, is evil, kind of forcing LXC to reassure him and take his side in an argument that isn’t actually happening.

They have a little handholding while bowing, and then after Lan Xichen leaves, Jin Guangyao puts on his evil face and has all the prisoners killed behind the big closed door.

This is done in such a violent fashion that the blood apparently flows up several stairs to the door, and over the tall raised threshold, before flowing downward toward the camera. Some evil is so extreme that even traditional Chinese doorway architecture can’t stop it.

Run To the Rock

Then we go outside to where Wei Wuxian is standing on a rocky outcropping, thinking it would be a good strategic spot to choose if he's ever in a battle where he wants to commit suicide right quick.

Lan Wangji comes to join him and admire the view, not knowing yet that this view, or one a whole lot like it, is going to be seared into his memory for most of his life.

Lan Wangji is becoming more and more committed to Wei Wuxian, more and more inexorably joined to him, but he still doesn't agree with him. So they each have this comfort in each others' presence at the same time as being massively in conflict.

Wei Wuxian asks him what he thinks of all the politicking and murdering. Who is good and who is evil? LWJ doesn't answer because WWX is leaking black smoke, so he grabs him and tells him to concentrate. Lan Wangji is, incidentally, wearing Princess-Leia quantities of lip gloss.

Lan Wangji asks if Wei Wuxian would like to learn a new tune, "Absterge" according to Netflix. The fuck? [op looks it up in the dictionary]. "To cleanse, especially by wiping." Also known as aftercare. Netflix. Honey. This word is MIDDLE FRENCH. Will you knock it the fuck off?

So anyway, instead of answering his question about who is good and who is evil, LWJ asks if he wants to learn a song called "Cleansing." Wei Wuxian says “hey babe, are you fucking kidding me?”

His actual words are "you doubt me too?" meaning "you think I also took the missing 4th chunk of Yin iron to make my ugly tiger amulet, rather than obviously having used that giant sword I pulled out of the turtle?"

Lan Wangji mentally replays Wen Ruohan's questions in his head--the questions he barked at Wei Wuxian right before choking him unconscious--which Lan Wangji also feels entitled to know the answers to. Fuck you, Lan Wangji. He answers WWX with "when did you forge your amulet?" Which is his way of saying "yes, I doubt you."

Wei Wuxian kindly refrains from saying "while we were on a break, bitch" and instead tells him the exact truth--I found a yin iron sword in the turtle--but says it in his patented "make it sound like a lie" way.

LWJ keeps grilling him, eventually coming out and saying dude, you knew the sword was Yin iron, why did you need to use it?

This is the crucial question--why WWX broke his first promise, to Lan Yi, which was to try to get rid of the Yin Iron. He won’t tell anyone the answer, which is that he needs to use it because he can't cultivate normally, because he lost his golden core. He made a lot of promises before that happened, and he probably expected to keep them. But without his core, everything changed; without his core, he’s a different person, so it’s maybe not fair to expect him to honor his previous promises.

I’m reminded of my grandfather, who was the oldest son of an old southern US family, with lots of expectations as the firstborn. He went off to WWI as a soldier, expecting to die. He didn’t die, and so from that point on, he regarded his life as a gift. He felt could do whatever he wanted with it, and let go of expectations from before the war. He moved to Paris and took up with a glamorous divorcee 7 years older than him (my Grandma, eventually).

The actual point of that story, other than OP having cool grandparents, is that when you think you’re going to die, and then you don’t die, your ideas about what you owe to people can change quite a bit. Wei Wuxian expected to die in the Burial Mounds; he expected to die at Nightless City; he expects it, over and over, and each time he doesn’t die, he gets further and further from being what everyone else wants him to be. And--a lot like soldiers returning from a war-- NOBODY in his life knows how to talk to him about it.

Wei Wuxian tells Lan Wangji to back off, Lan Wangji says why aren't you letting me help you, and they are once again on the edge of the same fight they keep having. Lan Wangji does some impassioned arm holding while Wei Wuxian says he's not like Wen Ruohan.

Romantic Duet #1

The argument is interrupted by screams and killing, so they go to check it out, and find the Jins hunting down some prisoners for sport. They arrive in time to save two people. Yay?

Jin ZIxun acts like a jerk, as always. The new element is that per Jin Guangshan, anyone concerned with Yin Iron shouldn't be alive. He says that the Lan and Nie clans agreed, and challenges Wei Wuxian. Lan Wangji stops him from responding, grabbing his wrist.

The Jins leave and Wei Wuxian refers back to their earlier conversation, saying there will be more resentful spirits now and that "Rest" is the music to play, not "Cleansing."

He gives Lan Wangji a long look and then pointedly removes Lan Wangji’s hand from his wrist, by holding his hand, which is some next-level mixed signaling. Lan Wangji totally deserves it at this point, though. He keeps pushing and pushing WWX about his cultivation method, but he refuses to discuss the underlying morality of it, or the morality of the killing going on right in front of them.

WWX walks off, leaving LWJ to stew in his own juices surrounded by a bunch of fresh corpses.

Lan Wangji fails his saving throw against the guilt trip, and sits his ass down to play Rest, just like Wei Ying told him to. So switchy! Wei Wuxian, out of sight but not out of earshot, hears him and accompanies him on Chenqing.

This scene is slightly ridiculous and a whole lot sublime. Ridiculous because it's their first time playing music together, so it's a super slow, romantic, extended scene, but they're surrounded by corpses. And not the helpful, friendly, third-wheel-on-a-date type of corpses.

It's sublime because the occasion of their first beautiful, literally magical duet is an argument. And they are joining together to play beautiful romantic music - as a service for the dead. And they are doing it while they are on literally opposite sides of a literal killing field. And Lan Wangji is sitting literally in the middle of a wide open road; the sort of road that they will both reject, metaphorically, later in the show. There is so much about their conflict and their journey that is encapsulated in this one musical moment.

Lan Wangji, by playing the song Wei Wuxian said was needed, is telling WWX that he took his words to heart, that he is listening, even though they're at odds.

WWX, by stopping and playing with him, is acknowledging this. And by settling the dead souls together, they are both reinforcing their dedication to doing what's right even as they both struggle with knowing what that is.

When Other Friendships Have Been Forgot, Ours Will Still Be Hot

Now we have the sworn brothers thing. I understand, plot wise, why this has to happen, but why would Nie Mingjue ever agree to this? Lan Xichen's puppy eyes are just that persuasive?

If they ever crack your spine, drop a line If they ever cut your throat, write a note If you’re ever in a mill and get sawed in half, I won’t laugh (HA HA HA HA)

Tedious Party Time

Now there's a cultivation party, which is about as excruciating to watch as it would be to attend.

Everyone is lining up to praise Jin Guangshan. To be fair, he did provide shelter for most of the smaller clans while the war was going on. So being grateful is appropriate, but Clan Leader Yao practically breaks his own neck kissing Jin ass. Yao says JGY’s contribution was the greatest of the war, adding, "fuck Wei Wuxian; everything is his fault."

The Jiangs show up wearing mourning belts that show off their itty bitty waists, and Jin Guangshan makes shifty eyes like a cartoon landlord when he sees them arrive.

JGS praises Jiang Cheng, and asks when his fancy clan-leader ceremony is going to happen. Jiang Cheng says he's still in mourning so it's not appropriate. JGS is like “Oh...yeah," as if he totally forgot about all the Yunmeng slaughter, and talks up his friendship with Jiang Fengmian. He acts comforting while WWX manages not to barf.

Then the Lan clan shows up and there is nice encouraging chit chat between LXC and JC...

...and just, SO MUCH mournful staring between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian.

Then the Nies arrive. Jin Guangshan tells Nie Mingjue he's late, and that everyone's waiting for him. That might be true in the script but it’s clearly bullshit on the screen, where the Lans and the Jiangs are still milling around looking for the coat room.

Nie Mingjue--who, let's remember, JUST swore to be brothers with Jin Guangyao--looks at him like he's something that fell off a garbage truck. Lan Xichen jumps in to maximize the discomfort by pointing out that Jin Guangyao should address Nie Mingjue as Big Daddy Da-ge from now on.

Then the Jins offer Nie Mingjue the giant fire throne because...he's the leader of the Sunshot campaign, I guess? Of course it's all a manipulation tactic, designed to make him say he won't sit there, so that JGS can elevate himself to head cultivator, or something? And sit in front of the throne but not on it? Cultivator succession seems kinda arbitrary.

I swear to god, it wasn't until I was clipping this episode that I realized Wen Ruohan had two thrones and they're in different rooms from each other.

Finally everyone goes to sit down, but because there hasn't been enough fucking awkwardness, JGY stops WWX to ask him what's on his mind. WWX asks him why he's not carrying his sword, which made me laugh and laugh. Wei Wuxian must have been just waiting for a chance to ask someone else that question for a change.

Jin Guangyao says he threw it away, because it was just a random sword, but he really means he had it made into a sneaky murder belt, that he will be using again in 13 to 16 years. They both fake-laugh and trade Mean Girls insults pretend to like each other.

Everyone wanders around toasting each other. Lan Wangji goes to find Wei Wuxian, after first making sure that his hair looks good.

Wei Wuxian is lying around on the steps, sprawling and drinking wine, and not, incidentally, looking for Lan Wangji. He continues to not seek him out and Lan Wangji continues to chase after him.

Wei Wuxian says "how about playing Cleansing?" but Lan Wangji says he's learning a new score. It looks like it's going to be another argument, but then Wei Wuxian smiles and kind of praises Lan Wangji for being stubborn.

Awkward Marriage Proposal

Just then everyone inside starts cheering for Jin Guangshan to give a speech. Jin Guangshan is making a move to marry Jiang Yanli to his son, which is a big time power grab, given that the Jiang Clan is 1. vulnerable and depleted 2. has control of the Yin tiger amulet.

We get a very rare glimpse into Jiang Cheng’s inner mind, where he thinks that saying yes isn’t a great idea, but isn’t sure what to do. This marriage would make his sister happy, but could destroy the Jiang Clan's independence.

Fortunately, Wei Wuxian joins the party just in time to fuck up Jin Guanshan’s plans. Will this teach Jin Guangshan not to invite Wei Wuxian to parties? It will not.

Soundtrack: Friendship, by Cole Porter (from “Anything Goes”)

Bonus:

#the untamed #the untamed gifs #wangxian #restless rewatch the untamed #canary3d-original #my gifs #words:2750

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