#and the understanding that inaction is still an action that can hurt people. and that there's often not a right answer.

[commsroom]

eiffel's problem is that he sees every injustice as an interpersonal issue. he doesn't understand how his flippancy or apparent leniency towards hilbert might look to hera; in his mind, it doesn't contradict his support for her. to eiffel, it seems obvious - he is also one of hilbert's victims, hera is his friend, of course he's completely on her side - but he fails to fully grasp how the stakes are different for her.

ep 19: "you need to stop treating this like a joke, officer eiffel." / "hey, i'm the person for whom the joke tolls." / "i get you're scared he put something inside you. but i hope you haven't forgotten emergency code alpha victor. he put that in me." and ep 51: "they're just jokes! they don't really mean anything." / "see, eiffel, you get to have that. they can be 'just jokes' for you because you're... well, you. but we don't get that."

the issue in shut up and listen is eiffel's repeated, if unintentional, microaggressions, but it's also his general use of dark humor as a coping mechanism - jokes he feels justified in making because of how the subjects of those jokes have impacted him. eiffel sincerely believes in treating people equally, but his idea of 'equal treatment' can be idealistic and naive. he has an awareness of interpersonal harm, but he's lived most of his life without ever being confronted with the reality of structural harm - being pre-judged and othered and having his life devalued on the basis of outside categorization.

but the thing about that is that it has happened to him, too. eiffel is an addict, and a convict, and marked as from a lower socioeconomic class than minkowski or lovelace, and those things are the reasons goddard futuristics was able to buy him as prison labor and - without his consent - consider him expendable for medical experimentation. none of that is a coincidence, but he doesn't see the systems at work, only his own actions and regrets. which he then equivocates to the worst actions of people who don't share his sense of morality or guilt.

eiffel's ability to recognize and bring out the humanity in the people around him is one of his best qualities, but... on the basis of his identity, he's been able to live a life where he conceptualizes himself as the default person, and that's been reinforced by the pop culture he loves so much. that's a massive blind spot. he assumes everyone navigates the world in a similar way, and so, on some level, he sees everyone around him as an extension of or a reflection of himself. if evil is always personal, then it can always be reasoned with.

#wolf 359 #w359 #doug eiffel #like. his answer for 'what is your worst quality?' #is a very tongue in cheek job interview answer: 'i empathize too much with others.' but from a certain angle... #i just think it's interesting. he has such believable faults and biases and assumptions about the world. #and the other thing is. eiffel's values are the show's values!! in some way he is also correct!! #but it's the line between diplomacy and centrism. #and the understanding that inaction is still an action that can hurt people. and that there's often not a right answer. #eiffel values the right things as far as the show is concerned #and as far as i'm concerned #but he lacks necessary perspective to really enact those values. decentering himself enough to really listen #while still keeping that personal focus. #i love that line where he says he's going to 'keep debugging his code' because it's so deferential like #'sorry for talking about you like this' and also 'i'm trying to see myself through your eyes.' means a lot to me. #and of course. the dear listeners literally reflecting eiffel while viewing him as the representative of humanity. there's something there #especially with the way eiffel externalizes both his good and bad qualities and projects them onto others #really good show. really good character writing. you know.

[knife-at-a-knife-fight]

you owe it to the people you love to take care of them, even if you aren't at your best

#mine #like i am not a capitalist and that's fundamental to understanding most any of my mentalities #so personally my thought tends to be 'what if we actually owe everyone everything we can provide all the time?' #but i get that that isn't attainable to most people #but what is more attainable is that we owe it to the people we love to help them #you can't watch someone suffer with the ability to alleviate that and do nothing yet still claim you love them #you cannot actively hurt someone #- through action or inaction - #with zero justification other than that the alternative isn't perfectly comfortable for you #and claim that you love them #if your solution to others suffering is to look away to make yourself feel more comfortable #to avoid considering if or confronting how you're complicit #then you don't love them #and you certainly don't care for them #think of all the people that have been there for you #whether you asked them to be or not #especially if you did not #why wouldn't you want to be that for someone else? #and if you haven't really had people there for you when you deathly needed them #whether you asked or not #especially if you did #why would you ever want to create a world where more of that exists? #and you'll never do it all perfeclty #you'll always find something more or else you could have done #but taking care of the people you love doesn't mean doing it perfectly #it means trying #it means showing up #it means being there and listening #and that's not something you can prolong #do it now

[sneakyboymerlin]

Some people don’t seem to get the gist of Gwaine’s character so let me break it down:

Gwaine deciding that Arthur is worth defending as a king and wanting to repay him for saving his life… does not mean that he loves Arthur the way he loves his literal best friend. Gwaine is deeply bound by his sense of morality, and his moral compass points him to Arthur. The anger with which Gwaine responds to threats against Arthur is identical to his response when, say, the Cailleach laughs at the knowledge that innocent people are dying because of her own inaction. Gwaine posits himself as a defender of good, and Arthur proved himself to be “noble” in his eyes. Ergo, he protects Arthur, as he protects civilians.

All in all, there is nothing really personal to their bond, just as there is little personal about Gwaine’s duty to the people of Camelot. Gwaine and Arthur have a begrudging respect for each other, and both have a sense of duty to ensure that the other does not come to harm. This dynamic does not need to be construed as anything other than what it is, but since we have been conditioned to believe that people can only act altruistically given a motive of friendship, romance, or family, their actions are subsequently read as such—contrary to the onscreen evidence.

I cannot stress this enough: this series is based on Arthurian legend. The knights are meant to display chivalry. That is the bond between them.

This differs greatly from Merlin and Gwaine’s dynamic, wherein Gwaine’s attachment does not stem from a sense of duty but, rather, his own personal feelings. He is drawn to Merlin from the start, finds an understanding and emotional support from Merlin that he’s never had with anyone before, and is stunned touched that Merlin hasn’t grown tired of him, despite the burden he’s placed on Merlin’s shoulders since his arrival in Camelot. By contrast, Arthur grew sick of Gwaine… almost immediately, and their dynamic was established as one of mutual duty the moment Arthur said, “He saved my life… He’s to be given anything he needs.” This is very much a discernible difference. An important one, too.

This is the reason that, despite how he is willing to lay down his own life for Arthur as early as 3x04, Gwaine explicitly does not consider him a friend afterwards in 3x08, but does for Merlin.

Furthermore, given Gwaine’s moral code—the very same one he used to judge Arthur as “noble”—Gwaine would indeed side with Merlin over Arthur in the case of a magic reveal (not to mention the fact that Merlin is his friend, he knows that Merlin is good, and he doesn’t want Merlin to be hurt). Gwaine believes that one’s actions determine their goodness, rather than their birth circumstances. Therefore, Merlin being born with magic is not proof that he is corrupt.

Outside of magic reveal scenarios, and despite his sense of duty to Arthur, Gwaine is still shown to put Merlin first. There is nothing wrong with Gwaine placing Merlin above Arthur. It’s not “unfair” to Arthur that Gwaine cares more about Merlin, and it’s not something that needs fixing. Arthur is not entitled to Gwaine’s love or loyalty. It’s beautifully satisfying, both emotionally and narratively, that Gwaine’s loyalty is to a servant first and a king second. That is the entire crux of Gwaine as a character. It is a deliberate choice on the part of the writers, and it’s perfect as is.

#bbc merlin #merlin meta #sir gwaine #merlin emrys #merlin and gwaine #merwaine #mergwaine #my meta

[dalekofchaos]

Friendly reminder. Bruce Wayne hung up the suit and retired after THREATENING someone with a gun and this was his reaction.

And then his immediate reaction is to shut down and close the Batcave and his only words were. "Never again"

A truly tragic, but fitting way for Bruce’s career to end. Powerful stuff. Batman's career ended the same way it began: with a desperate man wielding a gun

Batman choosing not to be weak like Joe Chill >>>> Batman going on a killing spree because fighting crime is hard.

And by the way, since Zack Snyder says his inspiration was Dark Knight Returns, I got news for you, TDKR Batman doesn't kill either.

Zack Snyder is a complete blithering fucking idiot.

his statement on Batman just lines up with what I’ve seen from all of his work. He likes the idea of the comics he makes movies out of but he doesn’t actually understand their themes. A Batman that kills is pointless. An edgy Superman is not only the most boring way to write him, but doesn’t make any sense without the wholesome one. That’s why injustice Superman/brightburn/Plutonian/omniman/homelander kind of make sense in their own ways because the original exists to compare them to.(mostly also boring though) His take on watchmen was pretty much devoid of any of the actual commentary from the graphic novel, but instead was just a dark justice league that were pretty bad at their jobs. Rorschach was just framed as a kind of unhinged Batman, but still a badass that does good, which is wildly generous compared to the way he’s originally written. I can understand turning your brain off and coasting through an action movie, but his fans are delusional if they think he does any of these stories justice. I wouldn’t take any of his comments seriously if they would stop letting him make these mediocre movies.

Zack Snyder is all flash and no substance. His films are visually stunning but utterly lacking in compelling storytelling.

The point of Batman is he cannot 'stoop to their level'. He HAS to be better, he HAS to believe these criminals can be rehabilitated, because if he kills them, he becomes just like them. With his wit, his intellect, he could future proof the city against crime ever happening by just killing the criminals before they commit crimes based on probable statistics and similar themes. But a Batman who refuses to kill is a murderer by inaction. Every time he chooses not to put Joker in the ground, he's allowed him to slaughter dozens, hundreds more, just for a laugh. Batman is equally guilty for every one of those deaths, because he could simply kill the Joker, and stop him from ever killing again. But he doesn't. Snyder saying Batman can kill, Batman SHOULD kill, is to say that without batman doing so, or being able to, he is just as bad as the villians. Except dipshit doesn't even have his Batman kill The Joker. "Oopsie daisy, Joker got out and bombed a hospital full of people, sowwwwyyyy, I put him back in jail again dunt worry TeeHeee :3". And then next week we do it all over again. OR. You kill the Joker, and he never hurts another person again. Which is why Jason Todd works so well as a counter to batman, and SHOULD be what Snyder is looking into. The reason why Zod works so well as a villain is because Humans are flawed apes who cant be trusted to govern themselves and should be conquered, and Superman, a literal God, could fix all that, but doesn't, because of Hope. Its foolish, childish even, to consider that a solution. And when placed in the vacuum of a comic book it works because you have to suspend disbelief, and forget that Superman let a city full of people die while he punched Zod through skyscrapers.

If you want Batman to kill people, just go and read one of his 1784956th copies that kill people. Go read Midnighter. Go read Punisher. Go read Moon Knight. Go read Peacemaker. Go read Nighthawk. What is stopping you?

I'm sure all those characters have brought about the peace and prosperity and the crime-free society that a "killer Batman" was supposed to. "Punisher would clean Gotham in under a week", right, just like he cleaned Marvel's New York, didn't he?

It has to be Batman specifically the one doing the killing? The number of superheroes that kill is nowadays much higher than the number of heroes who don't. Remember how Hawkeye spent the better part of his existence being the most anti-killing Avenger? Nowadays he is known as a super-assassin that "never had a non-kill rule". Should heroes who don't kill go extinct?

I like that Batman doesn't kill people. I feel no need to turn him into something he isn't like it was done to Hawkeye. If I wanted a Batman that kills, I would go and read one of the thousand "Batman who kills" out there.

Batman should not kill and should never kill.

"Gotham would be better off if Batman just killed The Joker"

You. Miss. The. Entire. Point.

Bruce Wayne lost his parents to crime and Bruce Wayne is a child who died alongside his parents and was reborn as a creature dedicated to insuring it never happened to any other child. He made a vow never to reduce himself to the criminal scum’s level or to Joe Chill’s level. He never kills for a reason.

Batman not killing is what makes him so compelling, if he kills criminals, there is no moral conflict, he is no better than the Punisher, Wolverine or any other dark edgy hero. Hell, if he starts to take a life, Batman is no better than Ra’s Al Ghul.

In the Daredevil Netflix show, Frank Castle told Daredevil this “That’s not how this works. You cross over to my side of the line, you don’t get to come back from that. Not ever.” That alone is why Batman should not kill, not even The Joker. Bruce Wayne is not Frank Castle, stop trying to make him Frank Castle. I mean…Stan Lee was absolutely disgusted when someone called The Punisher a hero, Frank Castle is a murderer, not a hero. How is this so hard for people to understand?

I don’t want to hear that Batman killed in the old comics and I don’t want to hear Elseworld stories. It’s an established fact that Batman does not kill and it’s a big part of his character.

Guess what? We already got a Bruce who killed The Joker, it happened in the Burtonverse/Schumacherverse and he was disgusted with himself. “So, you're willing to take a life.” “Long as it's Two-Face.” “Then it will happen this way: You make the kill, but your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you run out into the night to find another face, and another, and another, until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life. And you won't know why.”

A huge part of Bruce’s character is that he doesn’t kill, no matter what. Same with Clark. But edgelord writers from the New 52, DCEU and the Injustice abominations think it’s cool to make heroes kill. Heroes should not kill. You can’t be a hero and a killer. IT DOESN’T WORK THAT WAY!

Guess what would happen if Batman kills The Joker? The Joker wins. The Joker and Batman are each trying to prove a point to society - and really to us, the readers. The Joker wants Batman to kill him because he perfectly embodies chaos and anarchy and wants to prove a point to everyone that people are basically more chaotic than orderly. This is why he is so scary: we are worried he may be right. If the Joker is right, then civilization is a ruse and we are all truly monsters inside. If the Joker can prove that Batman - the most orderly and logical and self-controlled of all of us - is a monster inside, then we are all monsters inside, and that is terrifying. The Joker is terrifying because we fear that we are like him deep down - that he is us. Batman is what we (any average person) could be at our absolute best, and the Joker is what we could be at our absolute worst. The Joker’s claim is that we are all terrible deep down, and it is only the law and our misplaced sense of justice that keeps us in line. Since Batman isn’t confined by the law, he is a perfect test case to try to get him to "break.” The Joker wants Batman to kill a person, any person, but knows that the only person Batman might ever even remotely consider killing would have to be a terrible monster, so is willing to do this himself and sacrifice himself to prove this macabre point. Batman needs to prove that it is not just laws that keep us in line, but basic human decency and our natural instinct NOT to kill. If Batman can prove this, then others will be inspired by his example (the citizens of Gotham, but again, also the readers), just as we are all inspired every day to keep civilization running smoothly and not descend into violence, anarchy, and chaos. This ability to be decent in the face of the horrors and temptations present all around us is humanity’s superpower, the superpower of each of us. The struggle of Batman and the Joker is the internal struggle of each of us. But we are inspired by Batman’s example, not the Joker’s, because Batman always wins the argument, because he has not killed the Joker.

Batman not killing matters. Batman stories to me are the ultimate tale of turning pain and suffering into something positive. That is a story that everyone can relate to because let's be honest here. The world can suck. I've experienced and probably will always experience feelings of fear of depression of anger of angst. It's in my nature as a human being to experience those things. It's in all our nature it is what we choose to do with that pain that we all feel that defines us. Batman chose to turn all those negative emotions, he feels into a symbol that can bring people. Hope that Batman will save us from pain but more importantly hope that we can all be Batman. Why do we fall? And Batman Begins explains this best “Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up.”

Yes, Bruce Wayne is a flawed crazy person. He is at times mean stubborn and even abusive but he is still good. He is still someone we can aspire to be. We can try our hardest to be Superman but no human being can fly, but we can still try to be Batman We can all try to turn our pain into something good when I see Batman killing people or fans saying he killed before and he should kill The Joker, It pains me. It actually hurts my soul. Batman is not about finding a way to kill evil. But try to redeem it. His mission is an impossible task. Maybe he should kill people. Maybe he should kill The Joker, but what makes him fascinating what makes him a hero Is the fact that he has that moral code and stopped himself from crossing that line That's why I always looked up to Batman even as a kid despite all the adult subtext or mature themes superheroes are for kids. And killing is not Batman and it is not Bruce Wayne. This is why I hated the portrayal in the DCEU and the Burtonverse and why I really hated the implication that Batman killed The Joker in Batwoman. A Batman who kills is certainly not Bruce Wayne, that is an interpretation of Bruce Wayne that completely misses the point of Batman. It's easy to kill. Batman does not make the easy choice… Batman does not kill.

#DC #Batman #Batman Beyond #Bruce Wayne #Anti Zack Snyder #Anti DCEU

[utilitycaster]

Sean's general self-loathing is well established, but I think the exact nature of it is something I haven't talked about at length or seen discussed in full elsewhere.

At first glance it may seem as though "just fighting squid dogs until I'm dead" and Sean's willingness to go down swinging, throwing himself at most threats, stem from him wishing for a heroic death, but I don't think this is the case. He'd like it - it would give Bee a good thing to tell his mother, for whatever that's worth - but the truth is something he says elsewhere: "No shit. I'm a monster too."

Sean is not terribly worried about harm to himself. It is tempting to assume that his decision to throw the gun down the drain is about wishing to stop himself from using it for suicidal impulses; but I don't think it is. He's worried about using it on others. He throws it away immediately after he envisions the letter in which his mother accuses him of killing innocents and flashes back; later, he acknowledges that had he had a gun, he might have shot Lucas: "I'm not holding a weapon right now, so when my right index finger twitches, nothing happens."

It's helpful to understand Sean in terms of two of the people who come closest to understanding him: Bee and Nathaniel.

Bee, on the surface, has a lot in common with him: both lost their entire family, one way or another, other than each other, Marion, and Peggy (who they did, in a way, lose) and their homes in the war. Bee understands Sean's past - him as a boy, before all of this - in a way no one else can, since Marion was also himself quite young. The difference, however, is that Bee wants to return to that past - and, to be honest, that would fix the majority of her problems. Were Bee's husband to still be alive? Were she to have her home again? That's what she wants! That would be life-changing! And so she thinks about happier times, and urges Sean to go back to a more innocent time, and blames Nathaniel as a figurehead for the war that took this from them.

The problem is that Sean's problem, in the end, is that he went to war and found out he was the kind of person who'd kill things that look like children. He doesn't think they were real children, maybe, but some days he's not sure. His worst fear is that his mother would know precisely what he did with NoMAD, in Ghost company, and he believes she'd hate him for it. If Sean had an apartment? If Sean's mother were out and living in her tenement? Hell, if his brothers were alive? This would not change. It certainly doesn't help, that there's immense loss and poverty on top of all that, but in the end, Sean does not trust himself to make choices, believes it to be only a matter of time before he hurts someone again (to the point that I wonder if this is why he's avoiding his mother, or if it's because that if he spends more time with her she might realize who he is now), and now sees himself, in a way, as, well, kind of like a squid dog - can be tasked to be a protector, but corruptible, easy to turn, and liable to bite those on the same side.

Sean explicitly equates death as freedom from having to make decisions - because he believes he will make wrong ones.

Nathaniel, on the other hand, is much more ignorant of Sean's material losses - he is unaware Sean is living at the chapter house nor does he know about his mother - but what Nathaniel does share, and Bee does not, is that sense of identity shaped by a specific action (or in Nathaniel's case, inaction). Nathaniel thinks himself a coward because he did not save his older brother from drowning; it defines him perhaps even more profoundly than the war (though his response to his officer's pistol indicates the war left plenty of marks on him as well).

Nathaniel might not know the details of Sean's connection to baseball in the same way Bee does (though, notably, they are the only two to engage with it; Jean and Marion haven't). It's not clear if Nathaniel knows quite what happened in Ghost Company either - it's not even stated if Sean came to Echo Company before, or after, though it really only makes sense after. However, he does understand someone who doesn't think they will make the correct choices; he understands guilt and self-loathing in a way Bee does not. He understands being the surviving child and believing your parents got the worse deal out of that. And so it's Nathaniel who understands the importance of giving Sean orders, and the (temporary and false) absolution even an imperfect institution and the identities it confers provides.

Nathaniel's issues with himself are not on the same level as Sean's - he seems to have come to a place of "I'm a coward, and would prefer not to be, but at least I'm attempting to use what skills I have" [ignore whether or not he's actually a coward, that doesn't ultimately matter in this discussion, the same way that it doesn't matter that Sean bought his sick brother a hat with his paltry spending money] whereas Sean is actively opposing any indication that he isn't a monster, or at best a weapon. But he does understand that Sean's issues come from a similar place and how to live with them - which is something Sean does not yet see as a possibility.

#welcome to let's talk about the importance of how a ttrpg character sees their own agency: a meta meta meta meta discussion #critical role #candela obscura #sean finnerty #beatrix monroe #nathaniel trapp

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

thoughts on ppl (not necessarily zutarians) saying that killing yon rah would've been good/relieving for katara?

Simple: these people don't understand Katara. At all.

Katara's Trauma

The attack on her village changed Katara's life forever. She was forced to face the ugly side of humanity, lost her mother, her dad left to fight the war, and she had to step up and basically raise her older brother. All of it because the Southern Raiders need to kill HER, not Kya.

War, grief, growing up too fast, survivor's guilt... all of it was throw at Katara at once, and even though she seems to be well-adjusted enough, episodes like The Swamp, in which we see just how desperately she wants her mom, or even the first episode itself, when she immediately gets emotionally attached to Aang because he gave her the chance to be a kid and have fun, show us that she's still struggling to process it all.

She 100% needs some form of closure. But what exactly can give her that, and at what cost?

Righteous Fury VS Blind Rage

Katara hates Yon Rha and wants him to pay for what he did to her mother, and by consequence to everyone who loved her. That is not a problem. In fact, it is the way anyone in her position would feel. Aang himself says that's how he felt towards the Fire Nation when he found out about the genocide of his people, and towards the sandbenders when they stole Appa - both times, that anger caused him to get into the Avatar state.

And Katara could not stand to see Aang like that. When he tried to weaponize it, she tried to talk him out of it. Why? Because that kind of reaction of violently lashing out, like nothing else matters ALWAYS leads to problems. That has been a consistent theme through the show.

Whenever Aang's grief triggers the Avatar state, everyone around him is terrified, and he got dangerously close to accidentally hurting people during it - and just the emotional distress of it all was so intense, he was having nightmares about it later.

Zuko had the awful habit of verbally attacking people who had done literally nothing to him whenever he got too upset about anything, and he even got the point of started a physical fight because a guy dared to talk to his girlfriend, who looked very bored listening to it. Not only did this kind of behavior push people away from him, but it also made Zuko miserable. Even his bending was affected by it, as his impatience and pride made him refuse to master the basics before moving onto the advanced set.

During the whole episode of "The Southern Raiders" Katara is taking out her anger at Yon Rha on the wrong people. She tells Sokka that he didn't love their mom as much as she did, does NOT give Zuko a much needed telling off when he mocks the culture of Aang's people - ya know, the one his family commited genocide against - which she 100% would have done at any other time, is pushing herself too hard and looking exhausted as she flies on Appa, and even uses bloodbending willingly for the first time ever... on the wrong guy.

Sure, he was still an imperialist scumbag, but considering Katara was horrified after using it on Hama, who had literally been using it to capture and torture innocent people and tried to force Sokka and Aang to kill each other right in front of her, it's safe to say Katara would not see that as enough to excuse her own actions.

Katara is not being "empowered" in her quest for revenge. She is spiralling out of control and basically crying out for help without even realizing it. She has every right to be angry, but she's letting it take over her.

(Note: Her being angry at/not trusting Zuko even after everyone else befriended him is NOT misplaced anger like the episode claims. Zuko might not be as bad as Yon Rha, but he gave Katara plenty of reason to dislike him).

Action, Inaction & Guilt

Kya's death, and the attack against their tribe, was the definition of injustice, and Katara wants that to be corrected. Obviously it is impossible to undo it all, but there's still time to punish the people who caused it.

However, we cannot forget that Katara is 14-years-old. She's a child fighting the adults' war, like her friends. A child that had to hear her older brother say that when he heard the word "mom" he thought of her now. Not only is that unfair, it is also one of the main things that Katara had been trying to escape for a long time: not being allowed to be a kid.

Obviously, neither her nor the rest of the Gaang have the option of just not trying to stop Ozai - especially not after the failed invasion on the day of the eclipse, that had a ton of the adults on their side imprisoned.

But for a long time, she also did not have the option to go after Yon Rha directly. She didn't know his name, didn't know what position he held, had no idea how to track him. He was completely out of reach until Zuko gave her a lead to follow. Katara now had the option to confront her mother's killer and punish him for what he had done - even though that was not her obligation, since she was just a child.

But did she really see it that way? Like I said, Yon Rha had been after HER, not Kya - who only died because she lied to protect her child. Survivor's guilt could have very easily played a part on Katara's decision, and honestly I think some of the dialogue sugests that it did. She does not argue when Zuko says that forgiving is the same as doing nothing, and even her "Then you didn't love her like I did" to Sokka after he objected to her mission could be seen as her letting slip that, deep down, she believes that if she doesn't avenge her mom, doesn't "make up to her" for "causing" her death, then it means she did not really love her. And she deliberately mentions Kya's lie saving her life both to Zuko and to Yon Rha.

Katara isn't going after him just out of anger - she feels this is her responsibility. Her burden. Once again, this is not her being "empowered" enough to punish a wicked man. This is her falling into the trap of thinking she's not allowed to not want that weight on her shoulders.

A Forgotten Man

When Katara finally confronts her mother's murder, he is very different from the terrifying man she remembered. Sure, he can still use his bending a bit, but he clearly has not fought in a while, is easily overpowered, and is the definition of cowardly. He doesn't have any allies with him anymore, just his elderly mother that seems to hate him as much as he hates her. The cruel, oppressive system he was once a part of has chewed him up and spat him out. Nobody gives a damn what happens to this miserable bastard.

Now, obviously he doesn't want to die, especially not if the person who will take him out has EVERY REASON to make it slow and painful, but considering what we saw of his life, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the type that would just lay his head on a pillow at night and think "Wouldn't it be nice if I just never woke up again?"

THIS is the man Katara sees before her. Like she said, someone that is pathetic, sad and empty. Someone that would not be missed by literally anyone - not his mother, not his community, not the Fire Lord. Someone that offered her the head of the one family he still has left.

Kya meanwhile had a happy life before the Southern Raiders came to her tribe. She was a brave, loving mother that sacrificed her very life to protect her child, and left behind a family that is still grieving her.

This would not be "an eye for an eye" Yon Rha's death could NEVER come even close to be enough to "pay his debt" because it was absolutely worthless.

But does that mean that Katara confronting him at all was pointless?

Healing

By the end of the episode, after deciding to spare that bastard,Katara is being comforted by Aang, her best friend - like she had always done for him after he'd get into the Avatar state - and giving a second chance to her former enemy. She has also made it very clear that she will not forgive her mother's killer. Not now, not ever.

But this does not mean that she's back on square one. She faced her biggest trauma, confronted the monster that had been haunting her all her life, and acknowledged her anger and accepted that it will ALWAYS be there, but without allowing it to turn her into something she's not.

It is simmilar to her fight with her dad at the start of Book 3. After suppressing all the resement she felt after he left them to go fight against the Fire Nation, then taking her anger out on him, she broke down and accepted her pain, her vulnerability. She admited that, at the end of the day, she's just a child that wanted her dad with her, and now that Hakoda is there again, she CAN have that.

Naturally, there's nothing Yon Rha could say or do to make things better. But by facing him, giving him a taste of his own medicine, leaving him to rot, and then helping take down the very system that allowed people like him to commit attrocities everywhere, Katara finally got some closure. The grief will always be with her, but it won't define her anymore. She no longer has to be the adult figure of her family, she no longer has to wonder where that evil monster that took her mom from her is hiding and if he's making new victims.

Conclusion

Yon Rha was a horrible person, and if Katara had killed him, nobody could have judged her, and it sure as hell would NOT have made her just as bad or worse than him.

She needed to face him. She needed to let her anger out, to show him all the pain he had put her and her family through, to make him feel as powerless and scared as she and her mother had been.

But she did not need to stoop to his level. He did not deserve her forgiveness, but she did not need to sacrifice what was left of her innocence to put him out of his misery. He was just not worth it. Killing him would have been just violence for the sake of violence, and that is not in Katara's nature, and would have NOT helped her with literally anything. Quite the contrary.

She didn't spare his life for his sake, but for her own.

#anti zutara #katara meta #southern raiders

[grassius-a]

sorry that I haven’t been online. there’s something within the Pokémon RPC that makes me feel like there are still cliques, so I quietly left—and will still be somewhat inactive.

i will exclusively reply to asks as I still owe them to people; events and other posts I had planned will be postponed until I feel more comfortable role playing within this community. I don’t know what it is, but I feel like I am hated on here, or that people have reservations against me. I have felt this for months now. this is aimed at nobody in particular, just a feeling.

my posts used to gain traction and now there has been a steady decline ever since. I may be too much for people to handle, and o apologize for that. Im sorry for how I have behaved around people. Im sorry if I have made any one of you uncomfortable, or that I have nary replied back to those on discord.

I want to make amends, so here is my post. I strive to change myself, and intend to continue making positive change in my behavior. I make people uncomfortable, but I want to understand how I do.

It’s difficult to read intentions in a computer screen. It’s especially difficult to comprehend how my actions have affected an individual without it being explained to me. sometimes, it’s left to the imagination—and that can feed into my anxiety. unbeknownst to me, I hurt somebody. but how? in hindsight, it does require a lot of introspection and reflection on my part. being told what I’ve done can help give me perspective, too.

tl;dr this community makes me uncomfortable and I don’t know what to do, other than to leave, again. because it feels like people within said fandom dislike me—I’m putting words in their mouth, forgive me. it’s just a feeling. and I want to make amends. if any one of you still want to keep in touch, my discord is available upon request.

if and when I do return, I will be highly selective. and not the sort of label people loosely put on their pinned post. people will be blocked just to keep myself safe mentally. before I enact this change, I will be making a post for people to like so I know who to keep on my followers list.

Again, I’m sorry for any wrongdoings I’ve caused. Any interactions that have made any one of you feel compelled to distance themselves from me. Any promises I haven’t fulfilled. I do love this community. I appreciate every single one of you. I just want to feel comfortable here. Want to know how I can make things better. I’m sorry.

#[ 🌿 ] — — ooc. #tbd #negative cw

[dontbotherwiththepronunciation]

I really wish we could talk about Jeyne bullying Arya without people going completely feral, because as someone who was bullied (tragicomically involving the nickname "horseface" and even neighing when I walked by), and who can't even watch high school comedies like mean girls without wanting to die, I feel like it's so reductive to deny any possibility of conflict between the Arya-Jeyne-Sansa dynamic that is more than "mean girls vs pretty-but-doesn't-know-it-yet-girl situation" or "violent paranoid schizophrenic with a persecution complex feels victimised by girls who actually do their schoolwork" while still acknowledging Jeyne as a bully and Arya as a victim.

Jeyne is such a weird character to me, because I never feel this attached to the archetype she embodies.

And still, her dynamic with the two Stark sisters is interesting and the confusion in fandom is COMPLETELY fascinating and borderline triggering to witness, because it reminds me a lot to how a class of high schoolers reacts to *gasps, looks around to see no one is listening and whispers* bullying *lightning and thunder strike on the background to signify the gravity of such a word*.

Person A: What? What are you talking about?! She is exaggerating everything! Sansa never called her that! It was only Jeyne and I bet she only did it once! Person B: Oh, no it was just Jeyne who did it. Sansa told her to stop, but she just kept at it because she is less educated. Person C: No, Jeyne was actually just doing it to impress Sansa. Sansa is the real villain here. DontbotherwiththepronunciationIn2013: I don't think "bullying" is the right term. It's not that bad, Arya should get over it. It was just hurtful teasing.

Now I realise that "hurtful teasing" is in fact bullying.

So, if going by canon:

I think Jeyne came up with the name "Horseface".

I think Jeyne used to neigh at Arya when she was passing.

I think Sansa probably used that name at some point in her life or maybe multiple times.

I think that silence bestows. I think inaction can be encouraging more action. I think passiveness can be as harming as aggressiveness.

I do NOT however think that neither Jeyne nor Sansa are inherently despicable evil people for bullying Arya. I think they are still children. I think, like in most situations involving bullying and children, it's the adults who are at fault for not putting a stop to it, and sometimes even encouraging it.

Before starting to rant, I want to say:

I don't consider myself an expert on any of these characters!!!!!

So if I'm saying something disproportionately wrong in the following, I am open to being corrected.

With that said, I think this is a network of issues, most of them involving socioeconomic classes and period-compliant misogyny. I think it might look like this:

I know that focussing on this is a little pointless because the three main actors involved in this have been violently removed from the situation, (and most of the remaining cast is dead) but at the same time their possible future reunion will be even more violent and they probably won't even have time to cope.

And I can't sleep and I feel horrible and I already drew that dumb mind-map on my phone.

So, I'm starting with the least tangled component in this thing.

Ⅰ. The passive perpetrator, Blind Beth Cassel

To her sister and sister's friends and all the rest, she had just been Arya Horseface. - The Blind Girl, ADWD

I have loved the "Blind Beth" concept since I first read it.

It's so interesting to me how the most Beth interested part of fandom is the Theon corner, yet in the entire Arya-Sansa narrative she barely appears and rarely in meta. The closest I've come to find analysis on Beth & Sansa was in this gorgeous collage highlighting them as victims of violence from different sources in ACOK, but asides from that, there isn't much there. And at least with Sansa I can understand it. Sansa doesn't think of Beth once in the entire books. Arya on the other hand names one of her many identities after Beth and I think the characteristic chosen to describe that persona was a very smart and painful reminder from GRRM.

Arya thinks of Beth Cassel in two occasions. Once in AGOT, when we first meet them,

She studied her own work again, looking for some way to salvage it, then sighed and put down the needle. She looked glumly at her sister. Sansa was chatting away happily as she worked. Beth Cassel, Ser Rodrik's little girl, was sitting by her feet, listening to every word she said, and Jeyne Poole was leaning over to whisper something in her ear. "What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. "Tell me," Arya said. "Joffrey likes your sister," Jeyne whispered, proud as if she had something to do with it. She was the daughter of Winterfell's steward and Sansa's dearest friend. "He told her she was very beautiful." "He's going to marry her," little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. "Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm." Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words. - Arya I, AGOT

AND once in Braavos, when she is thinking of her life a Winterfell,

"Beth." She had known a Beth once, back at Winterfell when she was Arya Stark. Maybe that was why she'd picked the name. Or maybe it was just because it went so well with blind. - The Blind Girl, ADWD

Our first assumption as readers to the name "Beth" going so well with "blind" is because it is an alliteration. Who doesn't love alliterations? Tell me you don't love Sir Gawain and the Green Knight with all it's stylistic devices! They are lovely. And perhaps "Blind Beth" is only one of GRRM's alliterations acknowledged by a character.

Or perhaps "Blind" and "Beth" also go so well with each other, because apparently, and basing this from Arya's POV (the only one involving Sansa, Jeyne & Beth all together), Beth is a passive perpetrator. The typical class mate who pretends not to see the bullying and the way it affects the victim. The one who is decent or even kind when alone, but alienating when they are accompanied by a group.

I have seen certain takes claiming that Arya's POV in AGOT isn't a reliable source when involving the dynamic between her and the other girls in Winterfell.

That is possible, but she is our only source. As said, Sansa doesn't ever think of Beth, so if I want to examine her it has to be through Arya's eyes.

I would like to take the scene in AGOT once again and look at it more closely this time.

She studied her own work again, looking for some way to salvage it, then sighed and put down the needle. She looked glumly at her sister. Sansa was chatting away happily as she worked. Beth Cassel, Ser Rodrik's little girl, was sitting by her feet, listening to every word she said, and Jeyne Poole was leaning over to whisper something in her ear.

The object composition is so carefully placed that I find it difficult to believe it is not supposed to have a meaning. Jeyne whispers into Sansa's ear, an image I often associate with a political advisor plotting or scheming with the ruler they serve (which she will remind me of again in future AGOT chapters). Beth has a lower position in the hierarchy She is sitting at Sansa's feet, completely enthralled to whatever it is Sansa says. She probably seeks her approval.

(There is this very sweet art depicting the image of Sansa, Beth and Jeyne and even if I kind of feel guilty for reading the scene as them alienating another girl and still enjoying the art, I still want to share it because it's very cute.)

"What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered.

Jeyne's reaction is alienating. She giggles and denies Arya the knowledge behind that sudden laughter. It always reminded me a little of how Theon's smiles are often described contemptuously, probably because people tend to think he is actually laughing/smiling at them. They think he is mocking them. I don't think this is something completely involuntarily. I think Jeyne knows that giggling when Arya is asking to be integrated to the group is painful to her. Sansa is described to look "abashed" which I take as uncomfortable. I thinks she is aware this is mean spirited. She still doesn't do anything, but she is at least "abashed". Beth seems to follow this reaction but her description is only physical, not necessarily tied to an explicit emotion. Still, they collectively refuse to include Arya into the conversation.

"Tell me," Arya said. "Joffrey likes your sister," Jeyne whispered, proud as if she had something to do with it. She was the daughter of Winterfell's steward and Sansa's dearest friend. "He told her she was very beautiful." "He's going to marry her," little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. "Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm."

Arya has to insist to be accepted as part of the group. It is not Sansa who acts as the typical "Queen Bee" and grants her that privilege, but Jeyne. Jeyne is the one who speaks in a slightly haughty manner. Only after getting Jeyne's implicit permission does Beth make a comment. She is not described with any type of rancour by Arya.

Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words.

This is an interesting passage to me, but not because of Beth as a passive perpetrator, but because this is the first time I can think of where we are confronted with another monster that will play a role in here, the green-eyed beast;

Ⅱ. Envy

Not it's more mild mannered cousin jealousy that gets spoken of more in fandom, but envy!

Jealousy is usually seen as a less malevolent feeling, but the term is often used when actually referring to envy, so I will clarify that jealousy could be defined as a feeling of defensiveness and protectiveness over what you think to be yours and feel threatened or fearful of possibly losing it.

Envy is not protective or defensive, its offensive. It is a feeling of resentment over what another person or group has - be it a a material possession, a skill, or an emotional bond - and you feel you lack.

And oh boy, there is a lot of envy oozing from that medieval class room, some it more legitimate than other, but all felt.

Before continuing I want to clarify that Arya’s very real pain and low self-esteem, and the cruel ways in which Sansa sometimes treats her during AGOT shouldn't be dismissed as "deserved" or "exaggerated" because of her envy.

Ⅱ. Ⅰ. ARYA'S ENVY

Probably the easiest to locate.

In the formerly mentioned passage we see Arya being envious of Sansa. I would argue it's not up to interpretation since "with dull resentment" makes it very clear to me, but there is also tenderness. I don't think Arya hates Sansa, or at least not in that moment.

Something curious about envy is that it's not an entertaining sin. It's damaging not only to those you envy, but perhaps mostly to yourself. It is self-poisoning. And I think that during that scene Arya, isn't manifesting her envy. She very rarely verbalises it, instead she swallows her own anger and keeps it inside her. I couldn't find any passages where envy is the driving force on the few occasions Arya hurts Sansa. The closest I came to that is:

Arya wanted to scream. It was just like Sansa to go and attract the septa's attention. "Here," she said, surrendering up her work. - Arya I, AGOT

But even then, her envy only hurts herself.

Arya longs to be like Sansa. She wants to be considered as pretty as Sansa, she wants to be as skilled as her sister and to feel accepted by the other girls in the group.

It wasn't fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse. Well, that and manage a household. Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. If she did marry Prince Joff, Arya hoped for his sake that he had a good steward. - Arya I, AGOT

I find it curious how Arya starts off listing skills, yet the thing that pains her the most is related to her appearance.

What starts as painful envy becomes a self deprecating chuckle and later maybe even a half-optimistic outlook on her own strength. Arya recognises that she is not worthless or fully inferior to her sister. She is able to find qualities in herself and they way she does is endearing. She internally even makes fun of Sansa for not being as good as she is in this one little thing.

Sadly she is still aware of how in the eyes of most, Sansa is the one deemed worthy of admiration and emulation, while the best Arya can get is pity.

The septa examined the fabric. "Arya, Arya, Arya," she said. "This will not do. This will not do at all." Everyone was looking at her. It was too much. Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. Even Princess Myrcella looked sorry for her. Arya felt tears filling her eyes. She pushed herself out of her chair and bolted for the door. - Arya I, AGOT

And Arya's envy doesn't come from simply being Arya, it comes from Arya not being seen as a valuable person by Westerosi society and, in my opinion, most importantly, by her mother.

I refer to the parent-child relationships on the whiteboard as "perceived", not because I deem them false or delusional, but because I've seen a lot of debate going around this topic and whether the favouritism is true or not and I don't know what to believe and honestly I don't care too much about it.

At this part of the conflict we don't really need to know if the Ned-Arya and Cat-Sansa favouritism is true or not. We just need to know that both girls feel some insecurity over their bond with their parents and feel envy.

Personally, I think both Stark parents love all their children deeply, it's just that love sometimes isn't perceived the way we want it to.

Both of her parents had conventional expectations for Arya, but it seems to me that Catelyn was the one who upheld these expectations while Ned acted more permissive. Eddard still intends for her to lead a life that is typical to that of a Lady,

"[...] And it is past time that Arya learned the ways of a southron court. In a few years she will be of an age to marry too." - Catelyn II, AGOT

But it's not Eddard who Arya is terrified of:

It was worse than Jon had thought. It wasn't Septa Mordane waiting in her room. It was Septa Mordane and her mother. - Arya I, AGOT

And it's not Eddard whom Arya often fears being rejected by or disappointing.

Her father tells Arya she remembers him of Lyanna, a woman who is not only remembered as beautiful but also as loved and desired, and also shared some of her interests, such as swordsmanship.

Her mother though..

"Sansa's work is as pretty as she is," Septa Mordane told their lady mother once. "She has such fine, delicate hands." When Lady Catelyn had asked about Arya, the septa had sniffed. "Arya has the hands of a blacksmith." - Arya I, AGOT

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. - Catelyn II, AGOT

“…my hair’s messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard.” Robb wouldn’t care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out.“ - Arya VII, ASOS

Her mother used to say she could be pretty if she would just wash and brush her hair and take more care with her dress, the way her sister did. - The Blind girl, ADWD

And a recurring pattern in those lines is a comparison to Sansa, the sister who is not constantly failing at fulfilling society's expectations on her. The sister who she wishes she could emulate while also staying true to the person she is. The sister who seems to act as a passive perpetrator of Jeyne's bullying and sometimes acts cruel herself.

Ⅱ. Ⅱ. SANSA'S ENVY AND EMBARASSEMENT

When I first read AGOT, I didn't like any of the Stark sisters. I actually think the only Stark I liked back then was Bran. I was about as old as they were, had my own issues with internalised misogyny and thought both of them were a little annoying. My views on both of them during AGOT have changed A LOT in the past ten years and while I like who they become as the books move n, much more than I like who they were at the beginning, I've become very fond of their AGOT selves. And I think they are children! Children make mistakes! Children are shallow and impulsive and hedonistic.

So, I don't think Arya is the only person here who has a few negatives feelings about her sister.

More than envy I think Sansa feels second-hand embarrassment by Arya's behaviour and wishes she wouldn't be associated with her, and this is something Arya is aware of.

She was barefoot and dirty, her hair tangled from the long run through the castle, clad in a jerkin ripped by cat claws and brown roughspun pants hacked off above her scabby knees. You don't wear skirts and silks when you're catching cats. Quickly she lowered her head and dropped to one knee. Maybe they wouldn't recognize her. If they did, she would never hear the end of it. Septa Mordane would be mortified, and Sansa would never speak to her again from the shame. - Arya III, AGOT

Arya looked down at her ragged clothes and bare feet, all cracked and callused. She saw the dirt under her nails, the scabs on her elbows, the scratches on her hands. Septa Mordane wouldn't even know me, I bet. Sansa might, but she'd pretend not to. - Arya V, ACOK

And we also see Sansa wanting to deny association between her and her sister multiple times during AGOT:

Why couldn't Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked a sister like that. - Sansa I, AGOT

"Send Arya away, she started it, Father, I swear it. I'll be good, you'll see, just let me stay and I promise to be as fine and noble and courteous as the queen." - Sansa III, AGOT

"[...]I have only to remember how your sister set her wolf on my son." "I'm not like Arya," Sansa blurted. "She has the traitor's blood, not me. I'm good, ask Septa Mordane, she'll tell you, I only want to be Joffrey's loyal and loving wife." - Sansa IV, AGOT

Envy is something less present in Sansa's case, but I dare to think there is still a little of it lingering in her feelings. As if we had a cross involving affections and what is perceived by each Stark sister as a special relationship or favouritism between their fraternal foe and a respective parent.

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.  - Sansa II, AGOT

There is envy perhaps not of the relationship itself, but of the liberation that comes with it, but I don't even think this is actually Eddard's fault, I think this has more to do with the overall social conditioning of girlhood in Westeros and with another adult.

Ⅱ. Ⅲ. SEPTA MORDANE AND THE SOCIAL CONDITIONING

Septa Mordane sees Sansa as an exemplary student and she has reasons to do so. Sansa is a good and well mannered girls who fits into the model Septa Mordane is trying to shape the girls into. She performs her assigned gender roles with grace and is willingly doing so. Sansa enjoys being a Lady, it makes her feel worthy and it allows her to daydream and enjoy romantic hobbies like poetry or singing.

Arya doesn't. Partially because she rejects that model, partially because she id rejected by that model. I don't know what came first.

And yet, Sansa also sometimes seems to feel encaged by that model and by the Septa's teachings. And often, when Sansa does something that contradicts this model of conduct that she usually likes following, her thoughts go to Arya. She compares herself or gets compared to Arya, not necessarily in a pejorative manner, but almost seeing her sister as a little devil on her shoulder.

The kitchen yielded no lemon cakes, but they did find half of a cold strawberry pie, and that was almost as good. They ate it on the tower steps, giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets, and Sansa went to bed that night feeling almost as wicked as Arya. - Sansa III, AGOT

Sansa sighed. "They rode with Lord Beric, to behead Ser Gregor Clegane." She turned to Septa Mordane, who was eating porridge with a wooden spoon. "Septa, will Lord Beric spike Ser Gregor's head on his own gate or bring it back here for the king?" She and Jeyne Poole had been arguing over that last night. The septa was horror-struck. "A lady does not discuss such things over her porridge. Where are your courtesies, Sansa? I swear, of late you've been near as bad as your sister." - Sansa III, AGOT

"It was for love," Sansa said in a rush. "Father wouldn't even give me leave to say farewell." She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. - Sansa IV, AGOT

And who is usually disapproving of Arya's ways and telling her she puts them to shame?

Septa Mordane called after her. "Arya, come back here! Don't you take another step! Your lady mother will hear of this. In front of our royal princess too! You'll shame us all!" - Arya I, AGOT

And knowing how much Sansa cares about the way she is perceived by others, I can imagine Sansa thinking in frustration that it's unfair she gets reprimanded for these type of things when Arya does them all the time without realising that Arya suffers constantly because if it. It's just that they are less common in Sansa, so people are more surprised and "hopeful" of rectifying them. Septa Mordane almost looks at Arya as a lost cause. When she nags at Sansa it's because she wants to avoid Sansa becoming another lost cause.

And it's not that Septa Mordane is an evil witch trying to make Arya's life impossible. As much as I dislike Eddard Stark, I agree with him. This woman is just doing the job he and Cat tasked her to do. It's that she is part of an institution where girls like Arya aren't as valued as girls like Sansa.

Personally, I think she is one of the people carrying the most responsibility over Arya's bullying. I wouldn't say she participates in it, but she enables it.

During AGOT Arya describes Septa Mordane in an unflattering way and it is one of the few occasions where I don't think I should fully trust her POV, because yes, this woman is antagonistic to Arya, but I don't think she hates her.

"Septa Mordane is beside herself with fear. She's in the sept praying for your safe return." - Arya III, AGOT

I think, in her own flawed way, she is trying to "help" Arya adapt into conventional views of gender and Arya is having none of that (good for her!).

"Just where do you think you are going, Arya?" the septa demanded. Arya glared at her. "I have to go shoe a horse," she said sweetly, taking a brief satisfaction in the shock on the septa's face. Then she whirled and made her exit, running down the steps as fast as her feet would take her. - Arya I, AGOT

"Pray, where do you think you are going, young lady?" Septa Mordane asked. "I'm not hungry." Arya found it an effort to remember her courtesies. "May I be excused, please?" she recited stiffly. "You may not," the septa said. "You have scarcely touched your food. You will sit down and clean your plate." "You clean it!" Before anyone could stop her, Arya bolted for the door as the men laughed and Septa Mordane called loudly after her, her voice rising higher and higher. - Arya II, AGOT

Arya spun around, with Needle in her hand. "You better not come in here!" she warned. She slashed at the air savagely. "The Hand will hear of this!" Septa Mordane raged. "I don't care," Arya screamed. "Go away." - Arya II, AGOT

Poor woman is so frustrated with her job she one day passes out drunk on the table.

And I think Sansa suffers under her too, not because she dislikes the customs and views on femininity - she often recalls on Septa Mordane's teachings in moments of emotional need (Lady's armour is courtesy, find the beauty in every man) - but I think that as readers we can see how those are harming for her too.

"I've never seen an aurochs," Sansa said, feeding a piece of bacon to Lady under the table. The direwolf took it from her hand, as delicate as a queen. Septa Mordane sniffed in disapproval. "A noble lady does not feed dogs at her table," she said, breaking off another piece of comb and letting the honey drip down onto her bread. - Sansa II, AGOT

Sansa cried as Septa Mordane marched them down the steps. They were going to take it all away; the tournaments and the court and her prince, everything, they were going to send her back to the bleak grey walls of Winterfell and lock her up forever. Her life was over before it had begun. "Stop that weeping, child," Septa Mordane said sternly. "I am certain your lord father knows what is best for you." - Sansa III, AGOT

That one last passage drives me wild when it comes to Jeyne Poole and you'll see why later.

So basically, Septa Mordane antagonises Arya for her failings as her student. The class (Beth, Sansa & Jeyne) emulates the teacher's disapproval and distaste, Sansa feels embarrassed by association and Jeyne Poole takes advantage of the situation and targets Arya.

And now I can finally get to the true object of my obsession here, beloved middle school mean girl:

Ⅲ. Jeyne Poole and her many mixed emotions

As said, I feel so weird about my love for this girl. People call Theon a "poor little meow meow" but when I first read these books I didn't see him as an anti-hero/minor-villain during ACOK, but more of my avenging hero. I had tears of rage when he was threatening to hang Beth but I was also weirdly cheering for him. Jeyne on the other hand, she is my poor little meow meow! She is my problematic fave! And she makes me cry like crazy and I hope she has the happiest ending in these goddamn books.

I probably feel more attached to her than I feel to Arya and Sansa. I don't understand this. Anyway, I have two possible assumptions for why Jeyne is always antagonising Arya. And yes, she IS ANTAGONISING Arya, even when Arya is no longer there.

"What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. - Arya I, AGOT

Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. - Arya I, AGOT

Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. - Arya I, AGOT

Jeyne Poole had told Arya that he'd cut him up in so many pieces that they'd given him back to the butcher in a bag, and at first the poor man had thought it was a pig they'd slaughtered.  - Arya II, AGOT

It was all her fault, everything bad that had happened. Sansa said so, and Jeyne too. - Arya II, AGOT

"I saw your sister this afternoon," Jeyne blurted out, as if she'd been reading Sansa's thoughts. "She was walking through the stables on her hands. Why would she do a thing like that?" - Sansa III, AGOT

"I will be a better wife than the real Arya could have been, he'll see." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

"Arya Underfoot. Your sister used to call you Arya Horseface." "It was me made up that name. Her face was long and horsey. Mine isn't. I was pretty." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

You know, this entire thing started because I wanted to make a stupid joke but then I got more emotional and invested into this as I wrote, and now we are here and I don't even remember the actual joke I wanted to make so I have to improvise with the thing above.

I don't believe this is true either. There are absolutely no canon indications for Jeyne to have had been dealing with comphet and bullying Arya because of a crush (there is a rather fun fanfic though!) (and there is another but with angstier and subtler vibes and it's Theyne + Jeynsa). Although, in my opinion, there are a few other things; like class envy and projection!

Ⅲ. Ⅰ. JEYNE POOLE'S CLASS ENVY

I think hers is the most obvious case of envy, but unlike the envy between the Stark sisters it doesn't come from a place of emotional insecurity, but of socio-economical discomfort.

That is why I included "Beric Dondarrion" [insert highborn lord/knight] in that mind map.

Jeyne isn't envious of Arya's relationship with Ned Stark and much less of her skills. Jeyne is envious, and perhaps even particularly resentful, of the fact that Arya is offered AND rejects what Jeyne wishes but will always stay out of her reach.

I have joked about Jeyne's crush on Beric (and her possible implied crushes on Robb & Theon) in the past but I don't think I ever mentioned the class envy when doing so.

When [Jeyne] saw young Lord Beric Dondarrion, with his hair like red gold and his black shield slashed by lightning, she pronounced herself willing to marry him on the instant. - Sansa II, AGOT

She had seen Jeyne Poole giving [Robb] moist-eyed glances, and some of the serving girls, even ones as old as eighteen… - Catelyn XI, AGOT

"Help me." [Jeyne] clutched at [Theon]. "Please. I used to watch you in the yard, playing with your swords. You were so handsome." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

All the men she seems to at some point in her life experience some form of attraction for, even if it is that of a child, it's a puppy crush, just infatuation, are people she would never have a chance with. Two (theoretically) future lord paramounts and a marcher lord. All of them unachievable to a steward's daughter. And with that in consideration, let's look at this:

Arya cocked her head to one side. "Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?" "You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon." Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there. - Eddard V, AGOT

And I wonder how frustrating that must feel to Jeyne. To see someone who she deems as inferior in skills and manners because of the conditioning they've gone through under Septa Mordane's tutelage, someone who she considers beneath her, be offered and forced things she desperately wants and will never get.

Hell, Jeyne even manifests some juridical administrative knowledge and argues with Sansa about it, something she won't get to do as an adult woman, while Sansa and Arya will rule (their husband's) castles.

"Father's leg, silly. It hurts him ever so much, it makes him cross. Otherwise I'm certain he would have sent Ser Loras." [...] "Ser Ilyn's the King's Justice, not Ser Loras," Jeyne said. "Lord Eddard should have sent him." - Sansa III, AGOT

Not that any of them would be good at ruling anything, they are all middle schoolers at this point, but I think she could have felt vexed at constantly seeing Arya reject all that she wishes she could have for herself.

Please don't misunderstand me, that is still not a valid reason to bully Arya.

There are no valid reasons to bully a child.

But there are reasons behind Jeyne's mentality and actions, and I think some of those reasons come from a sense of resentment over how "easy" things are for Arya because of her status as Lord Stark's daughter.

As Arya Stark, Jeyne's dreams come true, she marries the future paramount Lord of Winterfell and twisted wish fulfilment is one hell of a drug and not one strong enough to numb the pain! And to add insult to injury, the real Arya gets to spend a significant amount of time accompanying Beric Dondarrion and his band of merry men. I fucking hate this!

And while I think that this is the main aspect of Jeyne bullying Arya, there is something more which I haven't seen written elsewhere and I am willing to admit it could be a sketchy interpretation, but I would like to talk about it anyway because it's MY inane post and I get to choose the straws I grasp at!

Ⅲ. Ⅱ. JEYNE POOLE'S LOOKS

We don't have a lot of physical descriptions for Jeyne. Her eyes are the most remarkable feature about her, being described as big, brown and expressive by Theon and Jaime. Sansa and Holly consider her pretty. Theon calls her beautiful, but only when prompted by Ramsay and it's not very believable. In his thoughts he previously claims she is no longer pretty because of the slashes on her back. I don't know how seriously he means this, but I find it remarkable. Asides from that she is described as a skinny, pale, brown haired girl. She describes herself as formerly pretty but not beautiful and when doing so compares herself to Sansa and sees herself as the lesser of the two. And yet, the entire ruse she is later involved in with this pseudo-karmic punishment, is based on her looking similar enough to Arya or the Stark look to pass as one. I always thought it was so extremely funny how defensive she gets when she claims her face isn't horsey, at the mere mention of the "horseface" nickname, even without Theon telling her she looks horsey.

I don't know. It is probably that I'm looking into this with more depth than I should simply because of...obvious reasonsfsgfgsfsghgdnfjdhdf, but who sometimes makes remarks about the Stark look being one of bastards and plain-looking-people?

[Arya] even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon's mother had been common, or so people whispered.- Sansa I, AGOT

My lord father found some skinny northern girl more or less the same age with more or less the same coloring. - Jaime IX, ASOS

"You [Arya] ought to marry Hodor, you're just like him, stupid and hairy and ugly!" - Sansa III, AGOT

Imagining little Sansa Stark going to vent to little Jeyne Poole after having an argument with her sister and making a perhaps not even genuinely meant comment about little Arya Stark's looks and Jeyne just sitting there mentally competing against Stannis Baratheon in who can grind their teeth the hardest.

While there are no instances of Sansa calling Arya "Horseface" she sometimes remarks to herself and to her sister that she thinks Arya is ugly and looks like a commoner.

And who has class insecurities and also seems to look similar to Arya?

"Jeyne, Jeyne, it rhymes with plain..." I can already imagine her whispering that to herself if she ever hears Theon's rhymes.

"I was never beautiful like Sansa, but they all said I was pretty. Does Lord Ramsay think I am pretty?" - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

The only thing Jeyne seems to really have going for her compared to Arya, the thing that could miraculously elevate her, are her looks and even those pale compared to Sansa. As said, she is described as pretty by some, but not beautiful.

In my opinion, the text doesn't really describe Arya as ugly. It is somewhat left up to interpretation since, while Sansa, Cat, Theon and Arya herself give us the impression she might be, there are also textual comparisons to Lyanna and even people who didn't know her think of Arya as beautiful (Lady Smallwood), but since these girls grew up the way they grew up...

I can imagine Jeyne feeling like her "prettiness" is the one thing she thinks can be used to make her more valuable in Westerosi society, and in order to keep that idea of herself being prettier than Arya, she has to make sure Arya doesn't feel good about her looks, so she calls her horseface.

And, if going by this entire text that I've been writing because I am stupid, that is also completely self-destructive and tragicomical !!!

Basically I think it is possible that Jeyne is projecting her own insecurities regarding her looks and her overall sense of inferiority compared to Sansa unto Arya.

And Jeyne has reasons to feel inferior to Sansa beyond simply the class hierarchy and the possible feeling of unattractiveness, because - and now I will get blocked by another load of people if this is read- Sansa is not very good at being a friend to her!

Ⅳ. The Sansa-Jeyne Dynamic

This is one of those things that completely baffles me, same as the Theon-Robb dynamic, where I have no idea how it is possible that my perception in the past ten years has been so drastically different from the majority of the fandom. And I swear to god, I've tried to change my perspective, I read metas, I tried fanfics, and I still don't get it.

This years Sansa month dedicated an entire day to Jeyne Poole.

Someone who is not very well acquainted with the books would probably assume Jeyne Poole is a very important girl in Sansa's narrative based on that information. They'd probably be surprised to find out that, since the two girls were separated, Jeyne Poole is remembered a total number of four times by Sansa Stark.

Sansa thinks of Jeyne Poole a total of four (4) times since AGOT.

In the span of four books in which both Stark sisters go through terribly drastic changes in their lives, Arya thinks of the girl who bullied her three times.

Sansa who loves and misses Jeyne thinks of her four times.

And you are telling me that she is so important to Sansa that she deserves an entire day dedicated to her? And everything that is created in that day is about how Sansa loves her so much and cares for her tremendously and will protect her?

PERSON D: It's because Sansa is traumatised. It pains her too much to think of her. Not thinking of her is a coping mechanism.

"She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. The septa had lost her head with the rest, for the crime of serving House Stark. Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. She tried not to think of them too often, yet sometimes the memories came unbidden, and then it was hard to hold back the tears." - Sansa II, ACOK

Person D: See?

Probably! I don't oppose that interpretation, it's very possible. People often suppress painful memories. But I can still disapprove of that coping mechanism. Would you like it if you suddenly disappeared form the face of earth in extremely mysterious circumstances and your friend wouldn't even ask about what happened to you? I don't think I would feel loved and treasured if I were to know that.

I don't like the way their dynamic is perceived by a majority of the fandom based on those four thoughts and the few other times we seen them interact in AGOT.

Person E: Oh OP is just posting anti-Jeynsa stuff because they ship Jeyne, A CHILD, with Theon, AN ADULT MAN AND RAPIST!

I wouldn't consider this anti-Jeynsa since

This is what makes their dynamic intriguing for me. This is the type of Jeynsa I'm into!!!

I don't think their relationship in inherently wrong or that it would be morally condemnable.

Also I don't even really ship Theon & Jeyne as an endgame romantic/sexual ship, not that it wowuld be morally wrong for anyone to do so. I "ship" it as a very turbulent dynamic between two people who have been forced to bond by the horrible circumstances they have been in and who have had the boundaries that define certain relationship dynamics blurred in some very traumatic ways. I "ship it" in the sense that I would like to see both of them find some tranquility and peace in their lives and try to explore which of those blurred boundaries they wish to reestablish, keep blurred or fully erase. Hell, I wrote a 100k fanfic focusing on their relationship and didn't even let them be endgame. I didn't even let them be actually in love.

It's just that "cute, loving, soft, homoromantic childhood best friends" isn't the dynamic I'm usually interested in.

And I don't think the Jeynsa dynamic is that.

I think there are class issues and inferiorities to be explored. I think Sansa is true in her affections for Jeyne, she loves her and sees her as a friend, but she is also diminishing and tends to look down on her, and regardless if it is a coping mechanism or not, she shows no interest in finding out what happened to who she considers her "truest friend".

And I don't believe Sansa is a bad person for this, I believe she is a young girl. Relationships between women are complicated enough already. Relationships between pre-teen and teen girls have entire studies dedicated to them.

Person F: How much would Sansa even consider her as a bff? In their bullying of Arya, Jeyne comes across as the acolyte to Queen Bea Sansa. And that's just modern projection. Jeyne is from a minor house. She's just a steward's daughter. She's just slightly above a servant in feudalist hierarchy. She's assigned to be her "friend" coz she's conveniently the same age, and that's just what you did then. Like "milk-siblings", servants who shared a wetnurse with a lord. (1/2)(2/2) Lower houses are fancy domesticity to the greater houses. The great nobility is fancy domesticity to royalty. That's just how feudalism worked. Everyone was thought of as a servant, the entirety of society was built on a network of servitude and dependance. Even the king is a servant: to God. Or "Gods" in the case of ASOIAF. Hence all the conclicts between church and royalty.

I saw this comment a while ago on a Tumblr post (I'm not putting a source link because I don't believe that would be fair to them and also it's older than a year) and I don't like it.

I think it is unfairly villainising Sansa and also removing Jeyne's agency in that situation by putting her as an "acolyte" (assistant, follower), when the composition of our first scene involving them, in my opinion, shows her as an adviser. I also don't like how it is pretending that Jeyne is being forced to be Sansa's friend and if going by that logic, then why isn't Beth being forced to be Arya's friend?

I disagree with it. I think it simplifies a more complex situation.

But I wish we were allowed to explore the less wholesome aspects in the Jeyne-Sansa dynamic without being instantaneously labeled as a Sansa-anti and it is what I'll attempt.

Something I always found very endearing and relatable about Sansa was how much she craved for friends - especially female friends - since she is left alone in King's Landing.

It had been so long since she had enjoyed the company of other women, she had almost forgotten how pleasant it could be. - Sansa II, ASOS

How am I supposed not to feel my heart ache in bittersweetness? My favourite Sansa "friendship" is actually the one she builds with Garlan Tyrell, but this is a moment of bliss.

It's interesting how Sansa often finds amusement in female friends who act very differently from how she does, but as her character evolves in the books her feelings for those types of companions also seem to change.

We have Jeyne, Margaery and Myranda, as her "friends", characters with whom she experiences very different dynamics and I think it is at least partially involved with their classes too.

Jeyne is the one she treats the most poorly, in my opinion. Ignoring how little she thinks of her after Jeyne is taken away by Littlefinger, let's see some of their previous interactions and let's also keep in mind that Sansa is (at most) a 12-year-old girl not having a very good time and she deserves compassion:

[...] Jeyne and Sansa cried out in unison as riders crashed together, lances exploding into splinters while the commons screamed for their favorites. Jeyne covered her eyes whenever a man fell, like a frightened little girl, but Sansa was made of sterner stuff. A great lady knew how to behave at tournaments. Even Septa Mordane noted her composure and nodded in approval. - Sansa II, AGOT

Sansa feels superior to Jeyne for staying calm at the face of violence. This will become a pattern.

Jeyne Poole wept so hysterically that Septa Mordane finally took her off to regain her composure, but Sansa sat with her hands folded in her lap, watching with a strange fascination. [...] By then Septa Mordane had returned, alone. Jeyne had been feeling ill, she explained; she had helped her back to the castle. Sansa had almost forgotten about Jeyne. - Sansa II, AGOT

Jeyne is hysterical after seeing a man die at the tourney, Sansa isn't very concerned for her friend's mental state.

"His leg?" Jeyne said uncertainly. She was a pretty, dark-haired girl of Sansa's own age. "Did Ser Loras hurt his leg?" "Not his leg," Sansa said, nibbling delicately at a chicken leg. "Father's leg, silly. It hurts him ever so much, it makes him cross. Otherwise I'm certain he would have sent Ser Loras." - Sansa III, AGOT

"Silly". It could be solely meant with endearment, but throughout that scene Sansa is in a bad mood and I wonder how Jeyne might have perceived it given she continues arguing with her about juridical administration and contradicts Sansa.

Of course, Jeyne had been in love with Lord Beric ever since she had first glimpsed him in the lists. Sansa thought she was being silly; Jeyne was only a steward's daughter, after all, and no matter how much she mooned after him, Lord Beric would never look at someone so far beneath him, even if she hadn't been half his age. - Sansa III, AGOT

Again, "silly", and this time with a slightly classist connotation. And the saddest thing is that Sansa is right, but she often daydreams of unrealistic or impossible romantic scenarios herself and had a crush on Waymar Royce, a man who was older than her, of lower nobility and about to make a vow of celibacy. Why is Jeyne the silly one for daydreaming?

"They're killing everyone," the steward's daughter had shrieked at her. She went on and on. The Hound had broken down her door with a warhammer, she said. There were bodies on the stair of the Tower of the Hand, and the steps were slick with blood. Sansa dried her own tears as she struggled to comfort her friend. They went to sleep in the same bed, cradled in each other's arms like sisters. The second day was even worse. [...] The only sounds were Jeyne Poole's endless whimpers and sobs. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Jeyne Poole had been confined with her, but Jeyne was useless. Her face was puffy from all her crying, and she could not seem to stop sobbing about her father. "I'm certain your father is well," Sansa told her when she had finally gotten the dress buttoned right. "I'll ask the queen to let you see him." She thought that kindness might lift Jeyne's spirits, but the other girl just looked at her with red, swollen eyes and began to cry all the harder. She was such a child. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Remember what I said about Septa Mordane's "Stop weeping, child."? Sansa is vexed by her crying although Sansa cries herself, thinks of her as useless, she thinks demeaningly of Jeyne because she is crying after realising her father has been killed..

"Jeyne's scared," Sansa said. "She won't stop crying. I promised her I'd ask if she could see her father." - Sansa IV, AGOT

This feels like a twisted version of the first passage in this list. Sansa is scared herself, we know this because she was trembling as she dressed, but she speaks only of Jeyne's fear.

Jeyne Poole and all her things were gone when Ser Mandon Moore returned Sansa to the high tower of Maegor's Holdfast. No more weeping, she thought gratefully. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Sansa, love, I know you are very stressed out but come on open your eyes!

Somehow this reminds me a bit of a less extreme version of Theon's inconsistencies in thoughts and actions involving Jeyne in ADWD. He is very crude when thinking of her, but if you go through his actual treatment of her, he is surprisingly tender. The only exception I can think of for them is in TWOW.

With Sansa, I think it is similar, but whereas Theon is painfully aware of how perilous their lives as Ramsay's playthings are, Sansa constantly refuses to see the gravity of their situation and thus is dismissive of Jeyne in a moment where it becomes terribly cruel. I don't think she doesn't love Jeyne, of course, she does,

The kitchen yielded no lemon cakes, but they did find half of a cold strawberry pie, and that was almost as good. They ate it on the tower steps, giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets, - Sansa III, AGOT

"Where are you sending her? She hasn't done anything wrong, she's a good girl." - Sansa IV, AGOT

No more weeping, she thought gratefully. Yet somehow it seemed colder with Jeyne gone, even after she'd built a fire. - Sansa IV, AGOT

She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. [...] Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. - Sansa II, ACOK

She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole, - Sansa V, ACOK

She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. - Alayne II, AFFC

Remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up. - Alayne I, TWOW

I think Sansa just sometimes takes her for granted.

I think it's sad because it's realistic and it hurts even more when you compare her treatment of Jeyne to her treatment of Margaery and Myranda after going through a period of hostile isolation and a heartbreaking customary middle school betrayal, two things that I believe influence her feelings for both girls.

With Margaery and her posse, she is idealistic. She considers Margaery to be kind, brave and wise, and finds bliss (and a little bit of envy and gayness, ooooh) in the company of her ladies.

Margaery's kindness had been unfailing, and her presence changed everything. Her ladies welcomed Sansa as well. It had been so long since she had enjoyed the company of other women, she had almost forgotten how pleasant it could be. Lady Leonette gave her lessons on the high harp, and Lady Janna shared all the choice gossip. Merry Crane always had an amusing story, and little Lady Bulwer reminded her of Arya, though not so fierce. Closest to Sansa's own age were the cousins Elinor, Alla, and Megga, Tyrells from junior branches of the House. "Roses from lower on the bush," quipped Elinor, who was witty and willowy. Megga was round and loud, Alla shy and pretty, but Elinor ruled the three by right of womanhood; she was a maiden flowered, whereas Megga and Alla were mere girls. The cousins took Sansa into their company as if they had known her all their lives. They spent long afternoons doing needlework and talking over lemon cakes and honeyed wine, played at tiles of an evening, sang together in the castle sept ... and often one or two of them would be chosen to share Margaery's bed, where they would whisper half the night away. Alla had a lovely voice, and when coaxed would play the woodharp and sing songs of chivalry and lost loves. Megga couldn't sing, but she was mad to be kissed. She and Alla played a kissing game sometimes, she confessed, but it wasn't the same as kissing a man, much less a king. - Sansa II, ASOS

There is a direct comparison to Arya, mentions of many of Sansa's hobbies, some sapphicness, and if I squint my eyes the needlework and lemon cakes remind me of Jeyne & Beth. And then...Sansa is made to marry Tyrion and that match frustrates the Tyrell's ambitions.

And here Sansa found the Tyrells. Margaery gave her such a sad look, and when the Queen of Thorns tottered in between Left and Right, she never looked at her at all. Elinor, Alla, and Megga seemed determined not to know her. My friends, Sansa thought bitterly. - Sansa III, ASOS

After that emotional betrayal, Sansa spends more time of isolation and this time it's even more depressing in my opinion. The few people who show her kindness are also somewhat compliant in her misery and then she gets abducted by Petyr Baelish and has to take the role of his bastard daughter, Alayne Stone. Under this guise she meets Myranda Royce and Mya Stone.

While I would say she befriends both girls, her connection with Randa resembles that which she had with Jeyne and Margaery more than her connection with Mya. Both of them share some common interests and Myranda, isn't disdainful at all of her supposed bastardy.

Person G: That's because she is cunning and suspects Alayne is actually highborn.

I'm not so convinced by that argument! She is described of being as closes as sisters with Mya Stone, another bastard.

Sansa's distrust for Myranda is, in my opinion, only partially fuelled by Littlefinger's words.

"Soon or late you must meet Myranda Royce," Petyr had warned her. "When you do, be careful. She likes to play the merry fool, but underneath she's shrewder than her father. Guard your tongue around her." - Alayne II, AFFC

I think her distrust comes mostly from her last close homosocial relationship having been a farce, from feeling manipulated, used and deceived. And that mistrust remains but is worn down by Randa's warm personality.

I think there is is something very sweet about comparing the following passages:

Sansa knelt at the feet of her future queen. "You do me great honor, Your Grace." "Won't you call me Margaery? Please, rise. Loras, help the Lady Sansa to her feet. Might I call you Sansa?" - Sansa I, ASOS

"Kind?" The older girl gave a laugh. "How boring that would be. I aspire to be wicked. You must tell me all your secrets on the ride down. May I call you Alayne?" "If you wish, my lady." But you'll get no secrets from me. "I am 'my lady' at the Gates, but up here on the mountain you may call me Randa. How many years have you, Alayne?" [...] "As you say, my lady." "Randa. Come now, you can say it. Ran. Da." "Randa." - Alayne II, AFFC

It's curious how in both cases there is this chance of friendship being offered to Sansa by a girl who has a higher rank than her but one is done much more courteously than the other. Sansa never calls Myranda "Randa" again, but as she warms up to her she begins referring to her as such in the narration. I think that is very heartwarming.

Maybe it is stupid to complain about the idealisation of a flawed friendship in these books, but I think the reason it annoys me so much is because it removes this type of development in Sansa's socialising. Her interactions with Myranda are delightful to read and I think it's the healthiest friendship she has formed yet.

And Myranda also embodies aspects of Margaery and Jeyne, so it's an even funnier conclusion. She is a little bit less ladylike than Sansa, but is still comfortable with her gender and the assigned roles, she is a little foul mouthed, she likes to gossip and to take friends to her bed (in an apparent not-sexual way).

"Lothor Brune?" Myranda raised an eyebrow. "Does she know?" She did not wait for an answer. "He has no hope, poor man. My father's tried to make a match for Mya, but she'll have none of them. She is half mule, that one." Despite herself, Alayne found herself warming to the older girl. She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. "Do you think Ser Lothor likes her as she is, in mail and leather?" she asked the older girl, who seemed so worldly-wise. "Or does he dream of her draped in silks and velvets?" "He's a man. He dreams of her naked." She is trying to make me blush again. Lady Myranda must have heard her thoughts. "You do turn such a pretty shade of pink. When I blush I look quite like an apple. I have not blushed for years, though." She leaned closer. "Does your father plan to wed again?" - Alayne II, AFFC

Even Lady Myranda began to yawn and complain of being weary. "We have apartments prepared for all of you," she told Alayne, "but if you like you may share my bed tonight. It's large enough for four." "I should be honored, my lady." "Randa. Count yourself fortunate that I'm so tired. All I want to do is curl up and go to sleep. Usually when ladies share my bed they have to pay a pillow tax and tell me all about the wicked things they've done." "What if they haven't done any wicked things?" "Why, then they must confess all the wicked things they want to do. Not you, of course. I can see how virtuous you are just by looking at those rosy cheeks and big blue eyes of yours." She yawned again. "I hope your feet are warm. I do hate bedmaids with cold feet." - Alayne II, AFFC

"I do hope you will forgive me for depriving you of Lady Myranda's company," Alayne told the knights. She did not wait for a reply, but took the older girl arm-in-arm and drew her away from the bench. Only when they were out of earshot did she whisper, "Do you really know where my father is?" "Of course not. Walk faster, my new suitors may be following." Myranda made a face. "Ossifer Lipps is the dullest knight in the Vale, but Uther Shett aspires to his laurels. I am praying they fight a duel for my hand, and kill each other." Alayne giggled. "Surely Lord Nestor would not seriously entertain a suit from such men." - Alayne I, TWOW

"Too late," Myranda said. "They're here. We shall need to do the honors by ourselves." She grinned. "Last one to the gate must marry Uther Shett." They made a race of it, dashing headlong across the yard and past the stables, skirts flapping, whilst knights and serving men alike looked on, and pigs and chickens scattered before them. It was most unladylike, but Alayne sound found herself laughing. For just a little while, as she ran, she forget who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up. By the time they arrived at the gatehouse, both of them were red-faced and panting. Myranda had lost her cloak somewhere along the way. They were just in time. - Alayne I, TWOW 

I don't even ship them (Mya x Myranda and Sansa x Brienne ftw), and this doesn't have anything to do with the theme of whatever this text turned into, but I love their dynamic so much I would ship it if it became canon. It's adorable and funny and out of her dynamics with other girls, this one is my favourite.

We know that the Sansa-Margaery friendship turned out disappointingly, and some have the suspicion that Myranda could act as a new tormentor for Sansa, and I have no way to disprove that, but seeing her development in regards to female friendships makes me at least doubt it.

She took Jeyne for granted and was disdainful, spent a time of hostile isolation, met Margaery and her ladies, went through the horrors of idealisation and crashed against the truth, spent even more time alone and kept the wounds from her sorrow, and is now apparently finding a healthy friendship with Myranda Royce and I love that for her.

It makes me wonder how her feelings for Jeyne could evolve if they get to meet again, and whether she will be more conscious of how their friendship was flawed. Of how she should have probably tried to be more attentive to the dynamic between Jeyne & Arya, of how she perhaps shouldn't have been passive about Jeyne's bullying nor participated in it.

As I write I am checking everything in my journals and I couldn't find a single occasion in which we see Sansa calling Arya "Horseface", but I did however find her thinking of Arya's looks as "horsey" with a negative connotation:

Her long horsey face got the stubborn look that meant she was going to do something willful. [...] One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.  - Sansa II, AGOT

She also giggles at and uses Jeyne's nicknames for Hobber and Horas Redwyne:

The Redwyne twins, Ser Horas and Ser Hobber, homely youths with orange hair and square, freckled faces. Sansa and Jeyne Poole used to call them Ser Horror and Ser Slobber, and giggle whenever they caught sight of them. - Arya V, AGOT

She recognized black-skinned Jalabhar Xho, gloomy Ser Aron Santagar, the Redwyne twins Horror and Slobber - Sansa V, ACOK

Paxter Redwyne, Lord of the Arbor, marched down the length of the hall flanked by his twin sons Horror and Slobber, - Sansa VIII, ACOK

And seeing her snicker at those names is already enough for me to pin her as a passive victimiser in their case. Even if she felt bad about it, something I could find no indication of. Sansa doesn't think of how painful it must be for them to be referred to that way, how dehumanising it is.

So, with that information, I don't think she's above having called Arya "Horseface".

Ⅴ. Adulthood

Where are the adults? Why is it that during the entire time we spend with these three girls under the care of Septa Mordane, Ned and Catelyn Stark and Vayon Poole we never see them taking action and putting a stop to this?

DontbotherwiththepronunciationRightNowRealisingTheySpentWayTooMuchFuckingTimeDevelopingAPunchlineTheyLost: Probably because this book isn't about medieval setting middle school bullying, you idiot! And there is a lot of really urgent stuff going on with the adults. Get over yourself.

Yeah...

But still! Prior to all that, prior to the story we've been reading, these characters existed in their own universe and in that universe, all these girls have been judged by adult society and have been set in a toxic environment that unintentionally allows and encourages the bullying.

I already explained that when talking about Septa Mordane.

My question now isn't whether we should fault the adults or not, but more about how this would have developed as Arya, Jeyne and Sansa all became adults.

Of corse, this is all speculation on a rather unimportant topic that has been discussed hundreds of times before and my opinion is probably somewhat tainted by lingering emotions, so yeah this might have been worthless but I couldn't sleep and it was a little fun.

Perhaps because of my own issues with bullying, which were handed very poorly by the adults who should have solved it, I like daydreaming about these three girls, all of who I like and wish good things upon, and wondering whether they would have been able to solve their problems as they matured into adulthood if their lives had remained peaceful. I sadly don't think they would have.

Throughout the entire text I wrote, I felt like walking on egg shells because, as you can probably see if you just look at my blog, I barely talk about Arya or Sansa and I know there is a lot of tension between fans of those characters and I didn't want to say anything that could feel offensive and somehow it was still surprisingly easy to write this. I think maybe it is because I don't relate to any of the characters, like I do with Theon or Barbrey, so I can distance myself from it a little more. On the other hand, this is a topic that still haunts me.

I really don't think they would have solved any of this if they had remained in Winterfell with things going the way they usually went.

But now, after being completely torn and victimised by war in extremely different ways that still somehow manage to bring similar themes to their stories (the always present threat of sexual abuse, the weaponising of a person, depersonalisation, dead parents, a broken home, losing their privileges as highborn, being saved by the Hound), once they reunite and are the only bonds that remains of a happier time, I think they could.

Maybe their newly found maturity and the despair born out of tragedy could make it easier to overcome all their past offences and forge a bond.

It's strange. I always go for the bitter, resentful and scorned women - I wonder why - (Barb, Cersei) or those who have aspects I can relate to cultural duality, immigration or rootlessness (Theon, Dany) but never for the more-or-less-happily-gender-conforming "damsel in distress", much less for one who reminds me of some of the worst people I've met, and yet out of the three girls involved in this she is the one I am the most attached to.

I think she mostly grew on me after I learnt she was omitted from the show and that her narrative was given to Sansa because that is such a cruel joke from D&D.

Jeyne Poole: Hey! I am the character meant to show how everyone is valuable, worthy and deserving of being saved and protected and how everyone matters and also to further develop Theon's character while functioning as a symbol of his culpability and regret of the three vilest things he has done(among other things of course)! D&D: Ok, we are cutting her because she is not important enough to matter. Give her plot to the barely adult red-headed Stark so Theon can find redemption by saving a Stark and getting a wolf pin and we can shiptease Sansa with a bunch of people and marketise her as an ice queen girlboss.

It's so mean it's a little funny. On a meta level I think she is the biggest loser in this series. I think that is why I like her so much. I liked her before I knew of that and I remember crying at @/croclock's art of her and Theon escaping (1) (2) (3), but I didn't feel as emotionally attached to her until after I found out.

I remember when I watched the show there was a scene that caused a lot of controversy that I can somehow relate to this.

Sandor Clegane: You've changed, Little Bird. None of it would have happened if you'd left King's Landing with me. No Littlefinger, no Ramsay... none of it. Sansa Stark: Without Littlefinger and Ramsay and the rest, I would have stayed a Little Bird all my life.

And of course this dialogue is gross and it doesn't make any sense in the books, and I still wrote it down on my journals because I think, maybe trying to be an optimist, that the message behind it was different than what was actually said???

It comes across as "I'm happy and grateful I was abused and raped" which is nauseating, obviously, but I think it was rather supposed to be more of a "All the choices I've made across my life and all the events that occurred through it have lead me here, to become the person I am today and I am proud of that person." which could still have been controversial, but is something I would have agreed with more, and it's not something I would only apply on these girls.

Maybe we'll get such a moment at some point with a better execution, hopefully, in the books.

#speaking #this escalated. #like to an entire different level I didn't knew existed #I just finished reading it and I honestly thin the fact this happened is better and funnier than whatever dumb joke I wanted to originally #make. I am so sorry for whoever opens the read more. This is hilarious #that's what a breakfast lunch and dinner consisting of ibuprofen and sink water will do to you #I feel like if I tag this I will get into trouble or at least blocked a lot so I will tag this as #Arya-Jeyne-Sansa thing #for now #I forgot the goddamn joke #My biggest fear about this is that it is so long no one will finish reading it (which would be kind of funny) #fuck it #I am posting it! #the narrative didn't doom me it just ditched me #Jeyne Poole #beth cassel #septa mordane #arya stark #sansa stark

[olympianbutch]

How do you reach a level of confidence in Greek polytheism when you’re like “okay, I know enough. I can teach others about it.” Because I don’t feel confident about it myself.

This is a wonderful question and a topic I’ve been stewing on quite a bit recently. To begin, I try to be very honest about the fact that I started teaching way sooner than I should have. To put it into perspective, I technically started worshipping the gods in 2018 and took to TikTok in 2020. That same year, I found viral success and soon started “teaching” about Greek mythology (I put teaching in quotes because I didn’t know nearly enough to educate anyone. During this period, I frequently made the mistake of relaying myths from books like Bernard Evslin’s Heroes, Gods and Monsters of the Greek Myths, the back of which explicitly states it’s a “reimagining of ancient myths”). Between 2020 and 2021, I stumbled across #classicstok and developed a deep love for ancient Greek religion. I spent all of 2021–2022 learning as much as possible (as fast as possible) about the field of Classics—especially the specialized study of ancient Greek religion. By then, I’d already cultivated a following of tens of thousands of people, and the expectation that they looked to me for guidance expedited my learning process. The sheer speed at which I became a teacher tremendously inhibited my growth in my private worship. And that’s because I put more stake in knowing about Hellenic polytheism than I did doing Hellenic polytheism, thereby destroying my confidence in my ability to cultivate a practice. Being informed is one thing, but Hellenic polytheism’s precedent (i.e., ancient Greek religion) emphasized ritual action. In the wake of my religious inaction in 2022, I stopped practicing altogether. At the behest of Zeus, I spent much of 2023 simply earning sufficient ritual experience. All this to say, I was overly confident from the start, which disadvantaged me. 

I believe I’ve since grown into my own as a practitioner and teacher, but it came with many unnecessary pains. And I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t still growing, but I can positively say that’s because I’m still young, and learning itself is a lifelong endeavor. There’s nothing I can do to change what happened, but I think I could’ve saved a lot of hurt if I didn’t platform myself. That is the one thing I would sternly advise anyone not to do (especially on TikTok). Instead, I think it’s wise to integrate yourself into Hellenic polytheist spaces before you entertain the idea of teaching because teaching doesn’t stand alone—it goes hand-in-hand with content creation, which is labor—and labor with little to no material reward. If someone asked me what qualities [I think] make me a capable teacher, I’d include my capacity to do arduous, time-consuming research in exchange for seemingly no gain. And I would principal the patience it takes to engage with fellow learners, a patience I’ll readily admit I’m still working to cultivate. 

Being a capable teacher entails understanding that teaching is work. You have to develop a sense of how much you can handle and set boundaries with yourself so you don’t overextend. It also comes with understanding and embodying that you are a lifelong learner before you are a teacher (you can certainly be both, but being a learner always takes precedence). As learners, it is our responsibility to constantly engage with each other so that we’re perpetuating dialogues and building understanding.

That’s about all I have to say on the matter. I hope this answer is useful to you, and please [everyone] feel free to send clarifying questions if something is unclear or if you require additional information (or if you simply want to chat over this topic).

:)

#Zenobia answers #helpol #Hellenic polytheist #Hellenic polytheism

[bnharambles]

Dabi is going to die and Iida will risk his life to save Shoto.

First of all, I have to point out that Dabi is essentially unforgivable (don't come at me, I have a point). I don't mean this from a moral standpoint, but a narrative one. This to say I don't think Dabi is beyond redemption and deserves to suffer for his actions, what I'm saying here is that I don't think his character can be redeemed within the BNHA narrative. So, he either lives and some sort of redemption arc is hinted to signify that no one is beyond hope in this new society our young heroes are building (if this is the case he will be part of the Tordoroki dinning scene in some capacity), or he will die. Lately I believe he's not going to make it, tbh.

It all comes down to the one capital sin for BNHA: inaction in the face of suffering.

So let's start from the beginning. Izuku might still be trying to become the greatest, but he became a hero since episode one. Because when he saw someone suffering he didn't even think about it, his body simply moved on it's own. Our protagonist can't stand still just witnessing someone else's pain, he moves instinctively, he acts.

This isn't simply a facet of Izuku's character, it's his very essence. The first time we see him he's defending a weeping kid, when he first tapped into OFA consciousness he didn't even have a body, but watching Tenko cry made him charge forward. He wants to help the crying little boy every time, he can't help it.

Sometimes that behavior is self-destructive, reckless and even irresponsible. People around him have tried to make him stop and give him a hard time of jumping without thinking. But the only time he didn't act the narrative chastised him for it. He let Eri go with Chisaki, and even tho his teacher told him he did the right thing and his inaction was understandable, logical even, it was latter framed as a terrible mistake.

Mirio, following Nighteye's instructions, convinced him to let her go. By the end of the arc one lost his quirk and the other his life. Izuku only survived himself because he succeeded in saving Eri, if he would've failed to save her a second time, he would've died. Mirio only got his quirk back after he helped Eri recover and smile again.

All this to say, inaction, even when logical on even justifiable, is unacceptable in BNHA.

Regardless of what could be said about that particular brand of heroism, that's what the story is selling. Heroism is (among other things) sacrificing yourself for the sake of others. And it's not exclusive to "heroes" either, villains too have sacrificed themselves to save others, Mr. Compress and Twice being the most memorable examples.

Enter Dabi. Going a mile a minute in the opposite direction.

After waking up from his coma he goes back home and he sees for himself Endeavor's continuous and relentless abuse.

We know Shoto's probably crying there, he might've thrown up at this point, we've seen it happen before from his memories, but here we don't get a close up. Shoto is part of the background because Dabi didn't spare him a second thought, he didn't care for his brother's suffering, only his own. Shoto is in pain, but Dabi's obsession with Endeavor is so great that he can only see the eyes of the abuser and never turns to see his own brother how's hurting right before him.

A lot of characters have failed to save someone in the series, but they've failed because they either couldn't reach them in time, they weren't strong/fast enough, they were so terrified they froze, or the laws/their superiors prevented them from intervening. Dabi didn't have any of this barriers, he had the table set for becoming a hero himself. He was standing right there in the door frame, unafraid, but so incredibly angry and self absorbed that he couldn't look beyond how that scene affected him.

He saw someone in pain and did absolutely nothing to help, what's more, he didn't even notice. In that moment he could've stepped in (literally), he could've become his brother's hero, but instead he decided to turn his back. He focused solely on his hatred for the abuser and completely disregarded the victim. And that goes fundamentally against the entire premise of BNHA

*sighs*

Enter Iida. Because… well, he did all that too, didn't he?

In Hosu City he ditched his internship during an emergency and went after the Hero Killer instead. He was right there in the alleyway, and he did absolutely nothing to help the injured hero, what's more, he didn't even notice him. He focused on his hatred for Stain, and in doing so disregarded the victim completely. It wasn't until Stain pointed it out and he saw Izuku and Shoto risking their lives to save them both that he finally snapped out of it.

He was injured and ashamed and still he admitted he was in the wrong, he took a stand, he got stabbed twice saving Shoto, he stopped Stain (with Izuku's help), he accepted the consequences without complaint, he asked for forgiveness and still the narrative punished him for what he did. He got permanent damage on his left hand and refused to get treatment until he makes up for his faults. Until he becomes a hero.

So... they're two sides of the same coin. The only difference is that Iida recognized what he did as a mistake and wants to do better. I think the story is about to give him the chance to become the hero he wants to be. The only question is what price will he pay for it.

_ _ _

When the teams got divided at the beginning of this final battle I was wondering why was Iida on team Nomus/Dabi. His power is not particularly well suited for withstanding extreme heat (or extreme cold, for that matter), it seams like Inasa would've been a better option to assist Shoto against Dabi's flames. Iida couldn't even provide support during the battle.

So why is he there?

Because there's a glowing spot in Dabi's chest and I don't think it's the beginning of some sort of regeneration. It's a bomb. Maybe it's one of OFA's fail-safes and he will ultimately survive, or it's Dabi's own power and he will die by his own hand like he wanted, but it will certainly go boom. And when it does, the only one fast enough to get injured Shoto out of there in time

Is the class president.

#bnha analysis #bnha predictions #bnha manga spoilers #mha manga spoilers #bnha dabi #dabi #todoroki shouto #iida tenya #endeavor #hero killer stain #bnha meta #bnha 353 #todoiida #maybe this has been pointed out before #i just have to get this out of my head lol #literally made this blog to get this off my chest #boku no hero academia #my hero academia #shoto todoroki #tenya iida #i don't usually tag stuff

[kob131]

There is a town that produces a very dangerous drug and there are two women who decided this towns fate; One wishes to burn it all down because this town was under her protection and they betrayed her by doing the whims of a terrorist which produces a drug which endangers its citizens even though they could've saved the town and the other wishes to spare the town out of fear the other is going too far but that falls in line to what the terrorist wants. Which side do you choose and why?

Tl;Dr- NOMINALLY, I would go for the second person. But I would really just go 'Fuck you both, I'm stopping the terrorist.'

(this is going to be long.)

I am not the kind of guy you ask these questions. That's not an insult or a demand by the way.

I understand what this question is asking. 'Would you choose to commit what is considered a horrible act if it meant stopping evil? Or would you choose to prevent someone from going too far, even if that inaction gives a malicious person what they want?' The good of the people vs. the good of morality.

Thing is, my response to this is 'what are the other factors?' Why did the citizens betray the woman? Was she prone to violence and authoritarian action? Did she properly communicate her desires? Where the citizens desperate for money? Where they lied to with no means of confirming the truth? Did the terrorist do so because the villagers themselves were evil? Does the second woman have a plan to deal with the terrorist? Is there a higher authority involved like a kingdom or country? What are they doing, if anything? Are they adding the terrorist? Are they trying to benefit from their actions?

This is a type of question I've seen a lot. As in, basically EVERY SMT game gives some variant of 'which do you choose? Safety or freedom? The many or the few?' And I've considered these questions very seriously in my time playing the games. And I've always come to the same conclusion- neither the strict adherence to law and morality nor the ethic of tearing down everything to build anew is correct.

The first woman maybe right to destroy the village...this time. But what about the second time? The third? The fourth?

What about the town that doesn't betray her? They're still producing the drug ruining lives.

What about the town that has the drug but doesn't produce it? They still have the capacity to abuse it and devolve into anarchy.

What about the town that doesn't have the drug but allows for all vistors? The terrorist can sneak in and rot the people.

What about the town that doesn't allow visitors but allows for villagers to leave and return? They could be exposed to the terrorist. Where does her culling end?

Same with the second woman. What about the town that supports the terrorist? The town that sells the drugs? The town that sells the drug and spreads terror? Where does the pacifism end?

You can't purely side with one or the other because human beings can easily become radicalized and either start a genocide to try and combat the 'evil' or become so rigid that they become ineffective. You HAVE to consider both.

Me personally, I would flip them both off and try hunting down the terrorist myself. Good chance I'll fail and die, my path is harder than my foe's after all. But it's better than living with the fact that I may have killed innocent people or let innocent people be hurt by my inaction.

I have to ask- Where did this come from?

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

One take I have seen most to protect JC from his actions was the "he had to think about his reputation! WWX didn't care, so it is aal his fault!"

Now, the context we have is a hypocritical and aristocrtic like society, and people are confusing MDZS for those "villainess isekai" mangas/manhwas/manhuas, where the MC has somehow has to fit and fight through the political drama with poise and wit (whenever is actually smart or just stupid plot armor MC). Unfortunately, MDZS is not that kind of media. WWX didn't seem interested in fitting nor wanting to involve himself into that world, he is the "stupid commoner borne" who failed because failed to fit, because he had the worst reputation one could fear to have, and yet he "dared" to defy those norms and act how he believed (and was) right to do, but somehow had to fit into the court drama. Dunno if this rant is making any sense BUT STILL-

But people didn't get the point: WWX is not the hero of a rom-com court drama where he has to fake or do whatever complicated scheme, he was straightforward on his actions (reason why I love him so much as a main character), why do people think he was stupid for simply not complying? Wasn't being rebellious against standards and high society something to be praised once? Then why insult him, call him arrogant and too full of himself when he effectively does that? Because they see through him that being the black sheep is not that "cool" or whatever? I dunno.

Hope this rant of mine made sense, I kinda got nervous while typing, so I hope what I said makes sense ^^''

Awww don't be nervous anon! My inbox is there for anyone who needs to rant and vent away at times! I know it can be hard to put such things out there with your name on it and having at least somewhere to have is immensely helpful.

What is interesting is that we do get this line in regards to why Jiang Cheng did as he did without exactly... thinking of what this can do to Wei Wuxian:

These past few years, Jiang Cheng consistently had been working through the day until late dark. That day, just as he decided to rest early, he had to rush to Jinlintai without stop through the night, due to the shocking incident. He'd already been quelling his anger for some time. Yet due to his natural pride, he was even more incensed having to apologize to others. When he heard Nie Mingjue mention the hardship his sect faced before, hatred sprouted within him. That hate was not just for everyone within the room, but also Wei Wuxian.

Jiang Cheng does as he always has, says things he shouldn't and inaction that hurts someone without caring about the consequences that can't be fixed. He is only thinking of the burden that makes him upset and chooses to punish Wei Wuxian, by not really sticking up all that much in his defense and Jin Guangyao and Jin Guangshan manipulate that very easily unfortunately.

As Jiang Fengmian tried to warn him, "A-Cheng, there are some things that can’t be said even if you're dissatisfied... when you say them even now, it means that you still don’t understand the motto of the Jiang Sect, that you still don’t…”

That you still don't realize the blessings that you have towards people that do care and love you, that they don't find it troublesome to want to keep you protected and happy. Do the same for them as well without masking it with cruelty.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #canon jiang cheng

[mbti-notes]

Anon wrote: HELLO. I have a question on how to get past an ego trap. I had recently figured, through your blog, that I'm a high Fe + Ni user (likely ENFJ). I also have fallen to similar traps in thinking as xNFJs who subconsciously downplay the importance of other people's lives while making social connections for the sake of fulfilling social ideals.

An example of this is my bad habit of not being able to talk to people as often. Regardless of how close we were or how much my silence is making them worry, I find it hard to reach out to them. Even if I care about them and want to ease their worries. They aren't necessarily doing anything bad. They can be completely normal people who have been nothing but kind to me. Yet I still get burnt out when talking to 'the same type of person' for 'too long'.

I try to do better nowadays. It works, I've sometimes thawed my odd fear of replying just by forcing those thoughts out of my head and taking action. However... I don't fully understand how my functions are causing this behavior and which mindset I should best adopt to pull through easier. I'd been thinking to myself, "It's okay to take my own time for my own life, and it's okay to have differing tastes about the people I surround myself with, but these people are as real as me and they'd appreciate being contacted again." Other times, I think: "It's my own life and if I don't withdraw when I need to then I'll burn myself out on talking to others."

I think it's partly because of me being at a low ego stage. I lack the self-awareness of how my actions/inactions affect others.

My questions:

What are your thoughts on a possible solution?

How do the functions work in these scenarios?

-------------------

It's a good idea to do things in the right order. You're asking me to use type to analyze your problem but you haven't even figured out your exact type yet. I won't get into specifics about functions until this is cleared up. ENFJ and INFJ are not the same. Each functional stack has its own unique dynamics to understand. Each type has its own unique issues and optimal path of development. The first thing you ought to do is put in the work for a proper type assessment. The process would help you understand yourself better.

What is the problem exactly? First, you say it's "fear of replying". Then, it's suggested that the real underlying problem is getting "burnt out" by socializing. And your default solution is basically to stop socializing. Is that a good solution? No, for a variety of reasons. It interferes with the development of quality relationships. You are unable to maintain a good social support network. People might get hurt by your absence/negligence. Social isolation is an obstacle to extraverted development. Suffering the same internal conflict over and over is not good for your mental health and well-being.

You seem to be in this "ego trap" because you think in oversimplistic either/or terms: Either I choose myself OR I choose others, as though it's a zero-sum scenario. You speak as though you have no influence over how socializing proceeds. It's like you open the door to socializing and then suddenly you're just a passive victim? Perhaps this helplessness is why you choose an extreme solution like cutting people off? This cognitive pattern is usually indicative of weak Fe (which makes ENFJ less likely than INFJ).

However, that's not how relationships should work, so there's something quite problematic with your overall approach.

A healthy relationship should be equally satisfying for both parties.

A healthy relationship should allow both parties to strike the right balance between self and other.

If it matters to you to be a good person, then you ought to respect yourself and your needs AND you ought to respect others and their needs. Whenever there is a conflict between them, you shouldn't just automatically default to either/or and do harm to yourself or others. Rather, you should put more thought into finding a middle ground or compromise that both parties can live with.

What is a better solution to "burn out"? Many possibilities: Plan and manage social time better. Learn better communication skills so that socializing is more energizing and less tiring for you. Negotiate rules and enforce healthy boundaries for socializing. Be more assertive about your needs and wants in the relationship. Categorize and prioritize relationships properly so that your socializing energy is used optimally. Make new friends that you can relate to better. Let go of relationships that aren't going anywhere.

In order to solve a problem, you must 1) be able to name and describe the problem accurately, and 2) explain why the problem is occurring, usually by correctly identifying the root cause(s) of it. It seems you haven't achieved either yet. Me making guesses about what's happening is of limited use when knowing your exact type could easily provide the explanation you need for improved self-awareness.

#socializing #social skills #infj #enfj #ask

[outofthiisworld]

By contrast, what would their haters dislike about your character? Is it a petty complaint? A mischaracterization of the character or their intentions? Are they just a woman in a largely male-centric series?

Are there any tropes fandom would put upon your character, for better or for worse?

META ASKS: If Your OC Was Canon.

By contrast, what would their haters dislike about your character? Is it a petty complaint? A mischaracterization of the character or their intentions? Are they just a woman in a largely male-centric series?

For Doc! I think in The Hypothetical Fandom™️, he generally wouldn’t be too disliked (I rarely see any genuine hate towards the Eccentric Old Guy characters but that could just be the small online circles I stay in) BUT!!! I DO THINK that the more his history with ATLAS is explored in the story, there would be RIOTS IN THE STREETS about whether he’s an irredeemable bastard vs poor old man who did no wrong.

In truth, he’s neither of those things. At his core, Doc is and always was a good man— but good people can allow horrible things to happen by turning a blind eye to save their own hide. His story (I hope) reflects both coming to terms with how your own actions (or inactions) can hurt others as well as learning to forgive yourself and make change going forward, as that’s all we can strive for at the end of the day.

Ophelia……….[shivers] ……..she needs her own post for this question 💀

Are there any tropes fandom would put upon your character, for better or for worse?

For Ophelia! They’d take her general, overall-life-inexperience and RUN with it. Fanon Ophelia would end up leaning WAY TOO HEAVY into the fish-out-of-water trope (ie what is this “c e l l phone you speak of?”) and some would even unironically fall for her facade, thinking she is too naive, too gullible. too smol too sweet too pure for this world

And her whole schtick IS gentleness found through unspeakable violence AND there is quite a lot she’s still learning about life. Ophelia is playful and loving and soft.

— BUT. Her perception is more often than not, in a constant hyper vigilant state. She’s a trained killer. She plays the fool so she can get the upper hand for any potential ambush if needed. She understands cruelty all too well, and can be just a cruel if needed.

^^ i also think the opposite would be true, where people can make her out to be MUCH MORE cruel than she actually is but this got long enough already so You Feel Me. Layers™️ 🧅

#👽 … ooc #🎤 … asks #pzfr #🧪… headcanons #💜… headcanons #//end of the day doc is my domesticated animal oc while ophelia is my wild animal don’t stick fingers in cage oc

[etansel]

Didn't one of the people that used his likeness and was "presueing a minor" literally have a mental illness? Like D.I.D or something

I'm not sure of the tone on this ask. I believe so, yes. We had a lot of people reaching out to us privately and publicly saying this person did not have the diagnoses they claimed to. However, I cannot speak to that. I don't know them and I don't want to speculate. But having a mental illness diagnosis doesn't make someone's actions, or inaction, in a situation ok. It explains the behavior but doesn't excuse it.

There were a few things they were doing that Evan wasn't ok with his name and face being attached to. He reached out privately to the person but they got really defensive and tried to frame him publicly as ableist which just isn't true. It certainly wasn't the place he was coming from when he reached out to them.

It's a tricky thing because we understand that this isn't something that's controlled. But on the other hand, it's his legal name and face on an account with a very large following. We know this person was not really Evan, and I'm sure most people could deduce this as well. But our place of work will not know the difference. If someone is doing something that can effect us irl then I'm sorry but we can't just ignore it and hope nothing comes of it.

This person's attitude towards his request was pretty much screaming insults, making threats and demands, and essentially telling Evan that 'that's not my problem'. There was no compromise to be reached because this person saw it as an insult and an attack rather than taking a step back to try and understand where Evan was coming from. It's his real name and face. And the stuff this person was posting, saying, doing as Evan Jennings, could really hurt Evan irl. This stuff can have very real life consequences for us unfortunately.

Evans irl last name is not used in emh. His irl last name was added to the wiki after fans found his facebook and fans applied his irl last name to the character. The character never had a last name. To try and stop this from happening again in the future, it was decided to give the character Evan a canon last name; similar to how Vinnie's character is Vinnie Everyman. He made a poll on Twitter to allow other fans to help pick the last name and it was overall really well received. The canon name is Evan Myers. We see a lot of fans, systems, and other people using the character name now which I think benefits everyone.

I still see an occasional post here and there saying it was poorly handled on Evan's part. We definitely do not have the knowledge or experience to really claim to understand DID and maybe it was partially ignorant on our part. But again, there are reasons why Evan reached out. It wasn't from a place of hate but of concern for his/our irl existence. Our livelihood. I don't think it's fair to label someone ableist when the situation involves a person's irl likeness. We must be able to retain some autonomy in a situation that literally involves and can effect ourselves.

[scinnahunbun]

REMI IS BEST GIRL! (BUT TECHNICALLY NOT REALLY TBH AND HERE’S WHY)

Let me be clear, Remi is my number one favorite character in unO. Almost leaning to a comfort character. However, I do have some thoughts on her writing that I want to lay out. PLEASE take this as more of a ramble from an emotionally driven brain than a critique tho. I’m not shaming Uru for her writing, just vomiting my thoughts. I may get some stuff in canon wrong so I deeply apologize for it in advance!

As far as we are concerned, her and Blyke are the most morally good out of the characters in this webtoon. However, she’s not perfect. In fact, she makes a lot of mistakes in unO. I hate how fans only brush her aside as the “nice but naive one” or the “stock badass cute female charcter” when there are so much more potential to her. But sadly, there are times where I believe the webtoon itself thinks the same way as them. Remi is not as well-written as characters like Arlo and even *gags* John. She does seem like that at first but there are cracks in her that make her feel… kinda off. 

(sorry btw to the unOblr discord members. I know I’ve been annoying with these takes but i want to compile them in a post DX)

I do agree that she hasn’t been compelling since the Volcan arc. While she has her moments like her putting up the Safe House, it’s already predictable since she has been constantly shoved into the box of the “nice girl on the sidelines”, especially in the Rowden arc. I understand the need for spotlight to the other characters but it kind of hurts because I love Remi’s flawed side. My favorite scenes with her is when we see her vulnerable and reckless. When she prioritized her revenge over Volcan when Alana died over the danger of getting harmed herself or when she lost her cool and burst into tears over the idea of Arlo getting hurt like Rei. I love seeing this side of her because as much as she tries to be the active hero, she’s just a teenager with a hero complex who tries to do everything for everyone but ends up hurting the same people in the process.

With what we have in canon, I don’t buy that Remi “easily forgives” her friends, no matter how attached to them she is. Yes, she can be in denial for a while but I don’t think she would let them off completely. Arlo’s been trying to undo Rei’s hard work on the hierarchy for two years. Considering Remi’s persistent and active attitude and the influence Rei and her family has on her, I hardly believe she would tolerate what he did, let alone still be friends with him. It annoys me how every time he does her dirty or admits to doing something wrong, she just reacts with “>:( hmph, fine!”. And that extends too for Isen but it’s worse bc we don’t even see her get pissed at Isen. I like Remi and Arlo’s friendship in canon but since they are such good foils, it would be interesting to see them clash at first (not as intensely as John and Arlo tho) before having these small moments of friendship to have more of an impact.

I am okay with Remi being ignorant. I’m fine with seeing her on the wrong side. I just think it was handled poorly.  I can see Remi being naive but not to the point of complete inactivity. The only pre-Safe House Arc onscreen moments where I can see her fit into this “naive royal who does nothing and is ignorant of her actions” is when she does not apologize to John for Blyke shooting a beam at him (probably because jOHN SLAPPED HER AND CALLED HER A BITCH) or that funny haha scene in the webtoon’s first chapter where she playfights with Arlo for cake without the thought of accidentally harming others in the crossfire.  

Even though there’s not that much screentime of her being inactive, the same could be said for her work as Queen. Where was she for the past two years? Why was she so passive? She mentioned that she “tried to help others” during that time but that’s all we hear from her. We don’t see what she does or if she really does help low tiers before the Safe House arc. To me, it seems less that she’s naive and more that her existence was completely retconned for certain chapters just so John could have an excuse to absolutely roast her in that one episode (haha get rekt dumb bitch!1!1!1!1).

Remi is constantly overshadowed by other characters and honestly, I think it needs to be addressed. Yes, she has her own agenda but nowadays, it’s mostly swept away for Blyke or Arlo’s development or given a couple of moments to grow (X-Rei arc) only to suddenly be cut off so she could get beaten up by John.

On a related note, her giving up being X-Rei after a couple of scoldings by her friends just sounds so OOC, especially since most of her scenes are dedicated to the weight of Rei’s death in her and how far she went in order to. Thanks, I hate it. 

So that’s all of my concerns at the moment so here are the things I would love to see more from her:

Why was she a mostly absent Queen before Rei’s death? What happened to her in the past two years? Did she really do her part but Arlo’s efforts to dismantle Rei’s hierarchy were too much for her?

More platonic moments with her and Isen! I understand that she and Blyke are more close to each other because they are canon love interests but I would love to see more of her friendship with Isen with genuine concerned or tender moments since most of their interactions are just haha funny moments and scolding Isen for being a dum dum. I love the scenes where Isen puts himself out of the line to save Remi when she was fighting Volcan as well as Isen getting beat up driving Remi to confront John. I know that this is a Remi post but Isen feels like a third wheel comic relief most of the time and he deserves better—

Her thoughts on being coddled by Arlo and Blyke. I noticed they baby her a lot and while they have good intentions, it does come off as condescending at times.

Remi being a workaholic. I explained this in a post before but I really feel like this is a good main flaw for her. It also makes her a foil to Seraphina where even with Remi’s selfless intentions, she makes mistakes and it still drains her like how Sera was when she’s Queen. I’d love her to contemplate how she’s not good enough for anyone or always end up making things worse with her help or smth like that.

For a time before Sera’s Spectre arc, she was the only character who was literally breaking her back to uncover the Authorities and the one responsible for most of the improvement on Wellston since the Safe House. I want to see her tired and stressed out of her mind!

The first thing that caught my attention from her is how different she sees the hierarchy. Despite coming from an implied high tier family, it’s fascinating how we see her and Rei being raised with a more community-based mindset from their parents. I really like that and I love to see more of how it influenced her.

The influence Rei had on her besides his death. We get the idea that she had inherited a lot of values for him but I would love to see how much Remi tries to be him as a Royal and probably lead to an identity crisis on how much is the real her or her brother’s legacy—

Bring the X-Rei arc back. Please. 

Just her going apeshit in general. Make her scrunkly. Embrace her flaws. She deserves better.

I understand that we can’t explore this currently because of all the current events and having all the screentime be on the actual main characters. I don’t want a Remi-centered unO or anything but I still wish we had room for at least a few of these to explore. 

To address the title though, I would consider Arlo best girl okay bye—

#unordinary #unordinary webtoon #unordinary remi #unordinary rant #notmyremi