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pessimisticpigeonsworld · 4 months

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https://www.tumblr.com/radicalsansa/739060101195907072/if-youre-looking-at-hotd-through-a-medival

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How exactly does GRRM want us to look through a "medieval lens"? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when we're watching underage girls be married off and suffering marital rape? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when soldiers rape and pillage innocent smallfolk? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when tyrannical kings are supported just because they took the throne?

GRRM's books may take place in a medieval-esque world, but that doesn't mean he wants the audience to support the atrocities normalized by a medieval society. He uses his setting to criticize the actions of the medieval world.

He uses Daenerys' campaign against slavery to show the monstrosity of the slavers and those who stand by allowing it. He uses Sansa's treatment by Joffrey to show the hypocrisy of the order of knighthood and medieval chivalry. He uses Jon's treatment in Winterfell to show the harm of bastardphobia. He uses Arya's time among the smallfolk to show how the petty wars of lords impacts the people. He uses Brienne's life to show the damage the patriarchy does to non-conforming women. He uses Rhaenyra's story to show the far-reaching harm to the world the patriarchy causes. He uses Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister to show the dangers of blind loyalty to a king.

We the audience are not supposed to justify a character's actions just because it was normal for the time. That's like justifying Thomas Jefferson's owning of slaves because it was the norm for rich men in Colonial America. We are supposed to be horrified with the world's treatment of people who don't conform to it. We are supposed to feel angry at the normalized and rampant injustice. We are supposed to acknowledge that, while the books (much like the world) are filled with people who do the wrong thing, the characters are not all equally bad.

This post was deleted since I started writing this a few days ago (so sorry it took me so long to finish this answer), but the gist of it is that TG is right because of the medieval standards of Westerosi society. In the case of Rhaenyra, like I said earlier, GRRM uses to Dance to show the damage of the patriarchy and male primogeniture. The dragons are wiped out because of TG's greed and sexism. The realm suffers thousands of deaths because the greens couldn't stand a woman, a non-conforming woman no less, to take the throne. GRRM doesn't want us to just nod along and say, "oh that's fair, after all it is normal for the time :)". No, we are supposed to see the injustice of the situation and the harm that injustice causes.

#rhaenyra targaryen #team black #house of the dragon #asoiaf #anti team green #anti team green stans #grrm #asoiaf fandom #asoiaf meta #fandom critical #daenerys targeryan #sansa stark #jon snow #arya stark #brienne of tarth #barristan selmy #jaime lannister

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francy-sketches · 1 year

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I love how stannis girlies joking about him being a teenage girl or whatever gets people so pressed. They’ll be like “ummmm actually he’s a raging misogynist 🤨 not a teenage girl 🙄 you’re so weird for this” it’s really not that serious omg

#.txt #I’m not exaggerating I just witnessed this exact interaction 💀#asoiaf twitter is a magical place #I think they were one of the anti neutral gang lol #bc I think I saw them tweet about ‘asoiaf neutrals’. or maybe it was one of the other 50 denis maznev pfp targ stans its kinda hard to tell #idk one of them had an unhinged rant about being victimized by evil minor character stans or smth #sorry I need to stop posting about discourse but this was too funny #anyway jaime is representation for bisexual teenage girls with ibs and if you hate him you’re a misogynist

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torchwood-99 · 8 months

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Just to make something clear. Jonsa stans, on the whole, are not fans of Brienne.

They're fans of Sansa having Brienne as a servant.

They're fans of this image they have of Brienne eternally suffering at never being able to live up to Westeros's patriarchal ideal of femininity, and therefore giving her life to serving Sansa who embodies that femininity.

They're fans of a 2D idea of Brienne as the sweet, naïve girl who has never done anything wrong, and will an unproblematic servant for their fave.

They're fans of having large, brutish Brienne existing in comparison to pretty, feminine Sansa.

They're fans of Brienne having a shitty relationship with Hyle Hunt, to contrast with the "Twu Luv" that is Jonsa.

They're fans of Brienne because they think here's a female character who can never be a risk to Sansa. Whose desires will never conflict with hers, and will never take any sort of prominence in the narrative they would like for Sansa.

If Brienne ever wants something other than to serve Sansa, if Brienne's desires ever conflicts with Sansa's, if Brienne goes through a character arc that doesn't revolve around serving Sansa, if Brienne is allowed to become more flawed and is no longer "sweet, naïve Brienne", if Brienne becomes anything other than "Sansa with a sword" (which she already has), if Brienne has a romance with Jaime that trumps any romance Sansa has, and if Brienne ever gains a narrative importance they want for Sansa, they will turn on her just as quickly as they have Arya and Daenerys.

#ASOIAF #A Song of Ice and Fire #Brienne of Tarth #Jaime-x-Brienne #Braime #anti Jonsa Stans

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melrosing · 19 hours

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classic ‘how dare you say we piss on the poor’ going on in response to that horseface post

#‘anti sansa stans’ siiiiiigh #no point me saying I’m a Jaime stan anymore I don’t think they can read that either #anyway I’m not engaging peace and love

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nightswatchdisbandmentera · 10 months

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*I’m about to do a whole lot of nonsensical rambling so feel free to ignore*

The theory that Jaime Lannister will join the Night’s Watch at the very end of the story has always intrigued me, mostly because of the very visual changes that would encapsulate his series long character arc up to that point.

Because from the very first time that we see him on page, he’s always been in colors that are bold…or even glitter in a way? His main characteristic has been that of a man of the kingsguard - a highly prestigious institution. The highest point a knight could reach I guess. Not only that but he’s also one of the greatest living knights in the land as far as sheer skill goes. But just as we’re introduced to his place in this illustrious position, we’re immediately told that he’s a kingslayer. He’s a knight whose main job is to protect the king, but he killed the damn guy (then sat on his throne as if rubbing salt in the dead man’s wounds). And it’s not badass or anything. This monicker is one given to him through mocking.

He does some pretty messed up things too (like the defenestration of poor Bran Stark). So it’s shocking (and lowkey poignant) when the very thing that helped him rise to his illustrious position (his sword hand) is taken from him and he has to in many ways start from scratch. And this starting from scratch even opens up a path to redemption for him. And an important aspect of that is the introduction of Brienne of Tarth, who to many readers represents the ideal of what a knight should strive to be even though she isn’t one necessarily: Brienne whose “no chance and no choice” lives up to the basic knightly vow of protecting the weak.

So Jaime is a white knight. A white knight in shining armor who historically is presented as an unblemished hero. But this shining knight’s white cloak is soiled - by his own admission. Then he loses his knight’s hand and goes on this journey and to a lot of us, it seems like he’s now trying to be a good guy and trying to live up to the actual idea of being a “good knight” (whatever tf that means). He’s also struggling with keeping all these vows that he swore. We as readers can’t help but to cheer for Jaime. We want him to find redemption. We want to say, “look how he made his white cloak anew! Look how he actually became the white knight in shining armor that he yearned to be”.

So him joining the Night’s Watch is not something a lot of people would say they predict for him; I certainly didn’t at first! That’s a black cloak, not a white one. Many of us want him to mend the pretty white cloak, not don the black one that has so far not represented anything positive in the story. The kingsguard is an illustrious order whereas the NW is everything but. The kingsguard holds skilled knights but we’re told that the NW is full of unskilled old men and green boys. A man of the kingsguard has great reputation but a man of the NW is at best a criminal. You join the KG for a taste of glory but are sentenced to the NW which is essentially a suspended death sentence - there is no future and you swear a vow to win no glory AND your honor goes to shit; which is absolutely hilarious because two things that are representative of Jaime as a knight, his horses, are named for ‘honor’ and ‘glory’.

But then think about it: it seems so simple right? Jaime starting out in an institution that is high in honor (theoretically) but then ending the story in another that hasn’t seen any honor in millennia seems like the very sort of thing that GRRM would do. The visual dichotomy of moving from a white cloak that is soiled to a black one that cannot be soiled is pretty neat as well - I mean you could argue that a black cloak can still be soiled just that the stain is not visible, but I choose the interpretation that whatever blemishes there are do not remove the base purpose or identity. And again, black can represent purity.

So the white -> black shift is thematically very neat…but then I always get stumped because well wait, what will the NW look like at the end of the story? And an extension of that question is who will Jaime be as a member of this NW?

The NW from the very first page of the series has been rotten to the core. It started out with this noble higher purpose (to guard the realms of men against the Others), but it has long forgotten it’s true purpose and has (in a very caricature-like performance of duty) spent thousands of years fighting against the very people it was sworn to protect. Not only that but this once great institution that housed hundreds upon hundreds of great knights (men who were once exalted from all corners of the seven kingdoms) now houses hundreds and hundreds of criminals: rapers, thieves, political prisoners, etc, from all parts of the seven kingdoms. The people who exist outside the social contract are the main part of the NW.

The NW sucks ass but(!) it’s true purpose still remains. Winter is coming and in true GRRM fashion, the very men who will have to protect the realms of men are the ones who have been cast away, damned, and forgotten by the people they’re sworn to protect. Then in comes Jon Snow (a bastard, mind you, who also exists in the fringes of society) who tries and fails to restore the NW to its true purpose. The result of his failure is well: stabby-stab-stab. Due to the mutiny at Castle Black (and the general state of the Watch up until Jon’s last chapter in ADWD), many Jon fans want the Watch to be completely destroyed. It’s rotten so might as well just get done with it…

But I’m not so sure that the total annihilation of the Watch is necessary. I’m a firm believer that the fallout from Jon Snow’s assassination (and possible death) will be the important catalyst needed to uproot the decayed moral center of the Watch. I believe that the Watch as we know it will die…but sometimes, things must die in order to be reborn. And what better way for the Watch to be reborn than with the death and rebirth of its most important member, Jon Snow? I’ve said many many times that Jon in ASOIAF is the very embodiment of the cycle of life after death; the cycle of death and decay then eventual renewal. Jon’s arc has been about taking charge of the cripples, bastards, and broken things, the criminals and the unwanted. He takes and leads the ones who are othered. And then he takes them and gives them purpose. Arms them and empowers them. Sam and the NW recruits, Arya, the wildlings, etc.

So given what Jon represents in this story and his relation to the NW (let’s be real, the NW storyline is Jon’s) I don’t think it’s fitting for the NW to be destroyed and cease to exist. Rather, it makes sense for it to die and be renewed into something closer to its true purpose: to protect the realms of men. And since I’m a firm believer that the NW will be remade, I’ve always believed it would be repurposed post WFTD to be an institution that guards the survivors and helps rebuild the land/community. The seasons will be balanced so that means that winter/death will still be coming, but first the men of the NW must live.

I not sure yet what these changes will entail but I do know that the issue or vows will come up. The swearing and keeping of oaths and vows is an important motif in both Jon’s and Jaime’s arc. Both of them struggle with the weight of keeping vows they’ve sworn to their respective institutions, especially because they’ve some times been made to perform actions that are against those vows.

In my ideal world, the entire business of swearing vows is done away with once Jon restructures the Watch. We see time and time again in his arc that there is a difference between saying and keeping oaths/vows. One of my absolute favorite scenes in the entire series is when Jon faces off against Marsh and co. in ADWD and then proceeds to recite the NW vows from start to finish because while his detractors know the vows by heart, they do not keep the spirit of them. In fact, many advocate for actions that would be the exact opposite of their vows. The lesson here being that just because you swore to do something, doesn’t mean you’ll actually follow through in ways that count.

See, I think parts of the NW vows are very important (i.e., protecting the realm, being a shield, etc). But other parts seem unnecessary. A man may be doing a bang up job of wearing no crowns or winning no glory but is he actually performing the actual job of the NW: to protect the realms of men? Part of me has always felt that an ideal NW wouldn’t need any vows to be sworn. As long as any man or woman has the will and zeal to perform the basic function of the Watch, which is to protect the realm, then no vows are necessary (might be an unpopular opinion I know).

I guess it sounds like my ideal NW is basically the BWB in its foundation: a band of people who were joined under the common goal of dispensing the king’s peace and justice; and this tracks because Jon and Beric are parallels so it shouldn’t be far fetched for the NW and BWB to also mirror each other. AFAIK, the BWB swears no fancy vow despite its noble purpose.

So I was just thinking that wouldn’t it be interesting for Jaime, a man who has struggled under the weight of a dozen vows (I’m probably exaggerating) to join an institution where no vows are necessary, but to uphold himself to a standard where he will keep the spirit of the vow anyway? Before he was made a kingsguard, he was a knight. And a knight swears to protect the weak. The NW’s purpose is to protect the men and women of the realm, with the understanding that there will be no personal benefit/gain. There will be no honor or glory, it’s just what one should do.

And I got to thinking about Jaime’s AFFC arc. This is a little reductive (forgive me for that) but he travels the Riverlands trying to establish the king’s peace. But he’s supporting a rather corrupt regime and going around with his horses named Glory and Honor, wishing and calling himself “Goldenhand the just”. He is rebuilding Westeros after the W0t5K, though this is being done under the banner and interests of the Lannister regime and under the umbrella of Lord Tywin’s legacy…which isn’t great to say the least. He, a damned man, covered up the loss of his knight’s identity with a golden arm. And while he understands that this is renewal for him, he can be something different now, he hasn’t really understood just how different he could/and needs to be.

So I’d like a reversal of his AFFC arc. But instead of a white cloak, he has a black one. There’s no honor and no glory to be won. But he decides that he wants to help rebuild Westeros the right way. There’s no benefit for him. But he will be living up to the Ser part of his name. It would even be more poignant if he’s doing this under Jon Snow, whether Jon is the 1000th LC or Lord of Winterfell or whatever. Because Jaime gains his dishonor by killing Jon’s grandfather Aerys. He donned the white cloak for Aerys. But to find honor (though unexpectedly and not out of self interest) and wear the black cloak under Jon is such an interesting continuation; let’s also remember that Jon is Ned Stark’s spiritual heir in many ways, and Jaime has a uh complicated relationship with honor as it relates to Ned Stark.

Btw I’m not advocating for Jaime to be Jon’s lapdog or anything. He’s a wholly different character whose arc exist away from Jon. I’m just mentioning Jon because there are thematic intersections, and I fully expect him to still have a relationship with the (renewed) NW at the end of the story. Thus, their arcs could possibly clash at some point.

So yeah, jaime joining the NW is something so wonderful to me because the thematic closure is actually quite rich. He doesn’t have to die for his to be a good story, and he doesn’t have to get an absurdly happy ending that ignores the things he must atone for. He’s one of my favorite characters (a solid top 5), so I have to admit that I very much want him to live. But I do want him to live and find himself at a place that provides him a purpose that he thought had eluded him. He can still be a knight, maybe not the one he wanted or expected. But it would give him the opportunity to effect some real positive change that he tried and failed to do in AFFC. A knight is sworn to protect the weak. And Westeros will be battered and bruised after the Long Night. It will need to be rebuilt, especially up north where the othered wildlings could be. So I’d like for jusrt Ser Jaime to find his purpose helping those he probably never even acknowledged.

#asoiaf #jaime lannister #valyrianscrolls #the nights watch #tagging:#jon snow #too because he’s kinda important here as an anti parallel #hope the Jaime stans don’t kill me if I’ve missed a few things here and there ashbgfxvvd #anyway….#every now and then I stop fangirling over Jon and remember Jaime exists #and I go oh wait he’s actually one of my favorite characters sfaaxdaasc #shouldn’t be surprising tho #there are some common themes in these two arcs #also forgot to add the different meanings of black and white #I mean black can also denote purity #but white is usually more…positive #the white knight just exudes more visual positivity #a black knight seems almost sinister #but the white knight choosing to don a cloak that is not as visually beautiful as a white one #but deciding to live up to the black cloak’s sacred purpose #which coincidentally lives up to the knight’s ideal #like remember when Sansa called the nw the black knights….#yeah #he’d still be a knight idk #but the subversion being that the new which is not as prestigious as illustrious as the kg #being where he lives out his days as true knight to protect the realmmm #yeahhh I love that imagery #he’s not losing himself as a knight I don’t think?#also interesting that Jon could’ve become a kingslayer in asos but was stopped by stannis ex machina lmao #typed this at 1am forgive the incoherence and typos plssss

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man-down-in-hatchet-town · 10 months

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"In real life, Princesses kill a lot more people than clowns do."

#And other words of wisdom from Professor Birthday #we stan a real one with conceptual knowledge of the injustice perpetrated by government monarchies #even if she does then go on to sing a whole song about being a queen #it's a different sort of queen though I guess #anyways seriously guys go listen to Professor Birthday Isn't Famous it's a hoot #Professor Birthday Isn't Famous #Professor Birthday #Eric Kahn Gale #Jaime Lyn Beatty #anti-monarchy

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la-pheacienne · 1 year

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Asoiaf Lannister stans but it's the post-HotD Green stans instead:

"STOP whitewashing the Starks just STOP Ned was a hypocritical stupid piece of shit who didn't know how to play the game and literally threatened a poor woman who was sold like a broodmare to her abuser and never did anything wrong ever cause she was just afraid for her children, Ned was practically ASKING for it and first of all why would I even prefer any other king that Joffrey atm, I get he's kind of problematic but what would YOU do if your father didn't love you and abused you like everyone else? Cersei and Tywin can learn to use Joffrey as a vessel for ruling no? Also Jaime is soooooooooooooooo hot and honestly ok pushing Bran out the window was kind of controversial but what was the kid doing there anyway? Also you can't blame the man for being kind of aggressive when he has Tywin for a father can you? Is it fair? Also did I mention that Jaime's like really hot? I mean he's really really hot so that means there is no good or bad side! And poor Myrcella deserved better. It's not the Lannisters' fault they are the most interesting, multi-layered and complex characters compared to everybody else, STOP vilifying them, they are NUANCED"

#huge disclaimer here because the Lannisters ARE INDEED nuanced #so don't take that post too seriously it's just a joke #house lannister #anti green stans #it has come to my knowledge that there are Lannister stans who talk like that but ok #asoiaf #got #hotd #fire and blood #aspa rambles #jaime lannister #cersei lannister

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sansalicents · 2 years

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name a better duo than the asoiaf/got/hotd fandom and blaming women for men's actions

#alicent gets blamed for everything it's infuriating #meanwhile people like viserys or daemon are praised #but it's typical for this fandom #i mean i'm a jaime stan but the way people try to blame cersei for everything he did??#he pushed bran out of the window cersei didn't make him do anything #and don't even get me started on all the shit sansa gets blamed for #anti asoiaf fandom #anti got fandom #anti hotd fandom

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fromtheseventhhell · 7 months

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Jaime: calls Cersei “queen of whores” and Taena Merryweather, a “Myrish whore”.

The fandom: He’s such a feminine girlcoded and bride-coded marxist feminist.

At least, I understand why a lot of Jaime’s stans became Aemond’s and Criston’s stans.

Jamie slander in my inbox, finally!

I'll never stop whacking him because he's an asshole in canon and his stans insist he's this pure, pathetic, virtuous man who has just been forced into difficult situations. His "redemption arc" is just him not being as shitty as he could've been in a few situations. Every time I see "teenage girl-coded" I have to laugh because people have more sympathy for shitty male characters than the actual young female characters in the story. It makes sense that their fave is Jamie though, cause they turn right around and copy his misogyny. The amount of misinterpretation Cersei faces from Jamie stans is so ridiculous. Everything bad that ever happened to him is because Cersei is evil, whoring, and manipulative 🙄. The Jaime stan -> to Criston, Aegon, Aemond stan pipeline is very real. It's a specific way that male characters are treated that rolled over to the HOTD fandom. As long as their stans can find one sympathetic thing about their characters then that becomes an excuse for everything they've ever done. This fandom needs to normalize liking characters for how they're written instead of the woobification they can project onto them.

#ask #anon #anti jaime stans #is that a tag? well it is now #ugly nasty misogynistic man that people can only prop up by demonizing cersei #not to mention how people use Brienne as a prop for him and they make up a portion of their shippers #fanon!Jaime is also one of the most rewritten characters #I actually don't hate Jaime's character even though I find him very annoying #but I've had to mute him because of how ridiculous his stans are about him #hope Lady Stoneheart takes care of him in Winds ♥

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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 1 year

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Jon: "And your family hasn't seen its end. You're still here."

Dany: "I can't have children."

Jon: "Who told you that?"

Dany: "The witch who murdered my husband."

Jon: "Has it occurred to you that she might not have been a reliable source of information?"

Dany: "You were right from the beginning. If I had trusted you, everything would be different."

Jon: "So what now?"

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I know some people thought this was meant to be a precursor to a possible magical pregnancy happening after boatsex (and a magical Targ restoration that was never going to happen) before the final season happened but this dialogue is nothing more than a red herring, getting the audience to expect that magical baby Targ and that Jonerys would rule the 7K by the end of the series so it could be subverted/turned on its head.

This portion of the dialogue is about Jon also being a Targaryen that will be revealed to the audience at the end of the episode. It not only showcases Dany's true belief in how she is The One and being special, what her real fear is (not being so special after all), it also shows us that if another Targaryen isn't coming from her, she's not interested. I should clarify that it shows us that after rewatching the series. If it's the first watch, the dialogue is simply posing the question of what would happen if there was another Targaryen and Dany was aware of their existence, while also planting the seed for Jon's parentage reveal later.

Right before this scene, they show us the Tyrion and Cersei scene:

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Not only do we see Cersei sparing Tyrion's life here (being unable to kill him as we see again later on in 8x04) but it's also revealed to Tyrion that Cersei is pregnant again after she's lost all 3 of her children, Myrcella and Tommen being mentioned more than Joffrey (the two children whose deaths she truly blames Tyrion for).

Jon Snow is mentioned more than once in this scene and his bending the knee. Tyrion even admits to Cersei that he didn't want Jon bending the knee to Dany, not like this. He also admits to her and the audience that he knows Dany's true nature, what she really wants to do, and how he's trying to keep that from happening. He doesn't want to destroy his family; he's following Dany out of faith (and because he's in love with her which Cersei pretty much confirms by what she starts out saying at the beginning of the conversation and with "What did you hope for?" & asking why he wants Dany to rule everyone).

Then, in the portion of this scene that I can't find on YouTube, we get this dialogue:

Cersei: "It doesn't matter. Your love doesn't matter, your feelings don't matter. I don't care what you did. I only care what it cost us. It cost us our future." (now let's pretend this is season 8 Dany saying this to season 8 Jon, put them in Cersei's and Tyrion's places for a second, and let's say it's after Dany executes Varys - interesting dialogue, right?)

Cersei: "I don't care about checking my worst impulses. I don't care about making the world a better place. Hang the world. That thing you dragged here...I know what it is. I know what it means. And when it came at me, I didn't think about the world, not at all. As soon as it opened its mouth, the world disappeared for me, right down its black throat. All I could think about was keeping those gnashing teeth away from the ones who matter most, away from my family. Maybe Euron Greyjoy had the right idea: get on a boat, take those who matter--"

Tyrion: "You're pregnant." (Cersei doesn't deny this, instead she stays quiet)

I think this dialogue illustrates one of the many parallels that Dany and Cersei share (while also showing us a contrast that we will later see in season 8 with Sansa compared to the two) while also showing us subtly how the Mad Queen narrative has been split between the two, and also displaying a clear contrast between the two queens.

"I don't care about checking my worst impulses. I don't care about making the world a better place. Hang the world." -> this is the parallel/Mad Queen-split narrative they share -> Dany talked about making a better world and that's why she had to rip the old one out root and stem in 8x05 and 8x06, but we also saw how she had been wanting "fire and blood" even before she lost her Westerosi allies, even before she came to Westeros. We also saw that she does not want to rule (for the sake of ruling) but to conquer and so she can be HBIC because she feels that she is entitled to the iron chair aka sitting on top of the wheel. That's why she wanted to break the wheel and it became part of her rhetoric -- she never wanted any other house to have a chance to be on top of that wheel ever again. Just like Aegon had set up when he conquered Westeros the first time and it had been like that up until Robert's Rebellion.

When Cersei begins talking about those who matter (we know she's talking about the baby but I'm also assuming she means Jaime as well) and protecting them after we just saw her refusing to kill Tyrion (who, let's face it, Cersei has despised since he was born, blamed him for many things, and has been cruel to him - knowing Cersei as we do, why wouldn't she have his head lopped off? it's the perfect revenge for Myrcella and Tommen - but he's a Lannister), that's the contrast. Especially when:

Tyrion: "Alright. You love your family and I have destroyed it. I will always be a threat. So put an end to me." -> when Tyrion is told about Jon's parentage by Sansa and then he tells Varys and the truth starts to get out, this further helps to destroy that Oneness that Dany believes about her self, her extraordinary being, and her destiny - something she is already feeling threatened by with Jon's existence once she learns the truth herself from him - in 8x06 Arya even confirms this with "You'll always be a threat to her." Not to mention Jon and Dany's glare-off on the steps of KL. Not to mention Tyrion saying this in so many words ("Who is more dangerous than the rightful heir to the Iron Throne?") to Jon himself in that same episode.

And then we also have this from earlier:

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Not only is the whole Euron/Yara/Theon parallel happening here (to link an intimidating person in power who is holding a family member hostage and demanding that person's family to submit/bow down in order to save them), but when Euron turns his insults onto Tyrion, Jaime intervenes, and then so does Cersei by calling him off. I believe this was done for two reasons: 1) to show us Dany's reaction to when this happens (they make sure to show it to us which plays into what she says to Tyrion in 7x04, what he says here to Cersei in this episode, and what comes later in season 8) & 2) because even though Tyrion might not be someone she wants to protect and would have had no issue killing before, she now hesitates each time she has had a chance to do it herself/facing him (as well as Jaime later on in this episode) and it all plays into what she tells Jaime about wanting to create a dynasty that lasts 1000 years (in contrast to what Dany says to Jon in 8x01). She and Tyrion, while different in many ways, want the same thing: the survival of the ones they love aka family. For her, it's the baby (and most likely Jaime). For him, it's Jaime (and Cersei by extension). No matter how much they might want to kill each other or take vengeance for all they have done to one another. And that is such a contrast to what we see with Dany.

So I think they absolutely intended to sequence these two conversations together in editing before airing the episode because it was meant to not only help subvert the expectation of a magical Targ baby/Targ restoration in the end, but to also show us that as bad as Cersei is, she's not Dany, which is what Tyrion says himself in 8x06. That Jon and Dany dialogue was all about Jon being Dany's only remaining family and how she would eventually react to that knowledge once it was brought to her attention.

#got 7x07 #got #game of thrones #anti jonerys #antijonerysposts #dany stans dni #jonerys stans dni #dany and cersei parallels #dany and cersei contrasts #jaime was a jon mirror #though tyrion was also connected to jon #proven by season 8 #mention of dark!dany #metaposts #mention of anti targ restoration #got parallels #gotposts

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