#not anti jedi either

[radiosummons]

Not to compare apples to oranges or whatever in regards to fictional characters' trauma, but Anakin wouldn't have been able to handle even 1/4 of what Obi-Wan went through.

Look, I’m an Anakin stan myself. He’s not my number one blorbo, but I do adore him and purely for the fact that he’s a goddamn fucking mess. But I can’t help but feel like some of the more extreme Anakin stans keep missing the point of the prequels/Clone Wars as a whole. That being: Darth Vader could not exist without Anakin.

I only bring up Obi-Wan because a lot of the takes I’ve seen from people trying to defend Anakin from any speck of criticism tends to almost always revolve around his trauma/shitty life experience. And, like ... he’s not unique in that aspect. If anything, Obi-Wan shares a very sad, almost mirror-like amount of experiences with him.

For example:

-Obi-Wan was a slave. A lot of characters in the Star Wars universe were slaves.

Anakin was a slave!

((Update to the above: someone asked for clarification on this point, and I made a lengthy response in my reply/reblog. If my reply is too difficult to find down the road, I can add that bit here. Otherwise, the short version of the above isn't that Obi-wan's trauma is more valid than Anakin's. Just that 1) Anakin being a slave is not unique in the world of Star Wars and 2) Obi-wan and Anakin do share similar traumas but react very differently to said traumas)).

-Obi-Wan’s father figure (Qui-Gon) died in his arms.

Anakin’s mother died in his arms!

-Obi-Wan lost the love of his life. Who also died in his arms. Who also, strangely enough, did not die because of anything he did.

Anakin lost the love of his life!

Anakin was criticized by the Jedi Order for his inability to let go of others!

-Obi-Wan was criticized by the Jedi Council and his peers for his attachments to Qui-Gon, Anakin, Ashoka, Quinlan, Satine, etc, etc. The Jedi did not condemn him (or Anakin) for forming these attachments. He learned to let go of those he loved when their time came, no matter what form that took, i.e. death or simply them choosing to take their own paths without him in their lives.

Anakin had anger issues that made it difficult for him to form proper relationships!

-Obi-Wan had horrendous anger issues. Qui-Gon initially refused to taken him on as a padawan specifically because he had a horrifc temper. He learned to control his anger so that it would no longer control him. 

Anakin was being targeted and tempted by a Sith!

-Obi-Wan was directly targeted by multiple Sith at multiple instances throughout his life. They all at one point or another tried to force him into using the Dark Side (Maul, in particular), or tried to convince him to leave the Jedi Order and become a Sith (Count Dooku, mostly, but also Asajj). He didn’t. 

Palpatine manipulated Anakin!

-Obi-Wan was also manipulated by Palpatine. Everyone in the fucking galaxy was manipulated by Palpatine. Anakin is not special. 

I could go on and on and on. This is just a small list of one to one comparisons, but like ... this doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the absolute amount of horrendous shit that Obi-Wan has gone through, even prior to Order 66. I’m not saying that Anakin’s trauma isn’t valid, nor am I trying to say that Obi-Wan is a better character than Anakin because of how much more he has gone through in comparison.

My point is this: At no point, did Obi-Wan give into the Dark Side or become a Sith. Despite the actual living hell that his life was, he never ever ever turned to the Dark Side. A lot of people like to say he came close when he faced off against Maul during the episode “Revival,” and I can definitely see where people are coming from. But he didn’t.

In the grand scheme of things, Anakin does not have a fucking excuse for becoming a Sith Lord. Not that he (or any other Sith for that matter) ever had a valid excuse to begin with. But holy fuck, my guy. If someone like Obi-Wan, who literally has not known a single day of peace, can still somehow manage to keep themselves from giving into the temptation of becoming the emobiement of all things evil, especially in response to great emotional pain ... like, my guy, there really is no fucking excuse. 

#star wars #star wars meta #clone wars #prequel trilogy #anakin skywalker #obi wan kenobi #not anti anakin #not anti jedi either #pro jedi #i just have some thoughts #i actually think george lucas and the clone wars team did a great job #of showing the differences #between obi wan and anakin #and especially in regards to how obi wan's choices #were by far the kinder and more mature ones #in comparison to anakin's purely selfish decisions #it's great storytelling #i promise i'll stop talking about anakin soon #i can't help that he's my problematic fave

[antianakin]

The constant pervasive ideas about the Jedi, that they're repressed and bad at relationships and isolated from the world and its realities and stuck in their ways, is actually just... Anakin.

Like people looked at Anakin Skywalker and assumed that because he was the protagonist that the way he acted was somehow a symptom of the Jedi's teachings or upbringing instead of just... Anakin's personality?

Anakin is repressed, more than almost literally any other character in the entire franchise. Anakin chronically refuses to really acknowledge how he's feeling and pretends he ISN'T feeling it while multiple other people might be begging him to do the opposite.

Anakin is bad at relationships, he pressures Padme into a relationship by constantly ignoring her stated boundaries and disrespecting her. He complains about his OTHER relationships to Padme and Palpatine, particularly his relationship to Obi-Wan. He's awkward and overly melodramatic, incapable of truly expressing himself in a way that isn't immediately off-putting to normal people or being able to express his more positive feelings towards someone in a way they might recognize or accept.

Anakin isolates himself from the world and its realities, refusing to see nuance anywhere, and preferring to view things from an entirely black and white perspective, particularly in order to make himself out to be the hero of any situation (the Tuskens are animals, the Separatists are evil, the Jedi are evil, etc).

Anakin is stuck in his ways. Similar to the last point, Anakin refuses to accept that any way but his own could possibly work or be worth considering. He thinks he's extra special and therefore people like Obi-Wan have literally nothing to teach him of any worth. Anakin doesn't WANT to think differently about the Separatists even when Padme tells him otherwise. Anakin does things in a certain specific way and refuses to change even if it might be better to do so.

I dare someone to try to come up with an accusation made about the Jedi's culture and lifestyle that "needs to change" that isn't literally just ANAKIN'S personality flaws projected onto the Jedi at large.

Maybe the Jedi don't need to change at all and Anakin just as an unhealthy toxic personality that even the Jedi couldn't fix.

#jedi #star wars #this goes for obi-wan SPECIFICALLY too #like everyone looks at ANAKIN'S flaws and manages to project them onto obi-wan #obi-wan doesn't actually struggle with attachments #obi-wan does not actually think he's a bad jedi #obi-wan is not actually repressed at all and seems to know and understand himself quite well #obi-wan doesn't really seem to struggle in his relationships aside from with satine a little which is like 80% her fault anyway #between anakin and obi-wan only one of them appears to have any real successful friendships #not even just among the jedi either #he's clearly friends with bail and dex as well #anti anakin #anti anakin skywalker #anakin critical #anakin skywalker critical

[merrysithmas]

Anakin Skywalker as a tragic hero

To be an Anakin apologist about it haha there are a lot of Takes recently because of the new show that seem to be missing an important POV about his role in Star Wars. Everyone's interpretation is valid but this is another to consider! Re: the concept of Fate in Star Wars as a genre of Tragedy.

Anakin was a demi-god and literal agent of the Force's Will (as per the actual narrative he was conceived from the Force to fulfill a prophecy). He was tortured by his tragic fate to enact the Prophecy (balance the Force). This prophecy ended up being predictably misinterpreted by the Jedi (hence the Tragedy genre) to mean "end the Sith" when it ended up meaning "end the Sith & the Jedi". This was Yoda's entire realization in RotS and why he painfully & memorably admits, "Failed, I have." So caught up was the Council in attachment to the war's outcome, to being warriors, to the Senate's will, to ending the Sith, that the Jedi forgot their principles.

The Sith, naturally, also failed. They manipulated and groomed Anakin from childhood - proving their evil.

Anakin was DESTINED to fall no matter what he tried (hence the genre of Tragedy), because he was DESTINED to enact the prophecy based off the actions of the Galaxy itself & Republic & Sith.

Anakin Skywalker is a tragic hero because his "heroic" destiny was to be an antagonist - to both the Jedi and the Sith until the Force was balanced, which, ultimately, was something the Force~ determined to be a necessary action - not him.

Anakin both is and isn't the Force, Anakin both is and isn't Vader. Microcosmically he has a crisis of personality, but macrocosmically his personality struggle is representative of the Force's response to the actions of the Galaxy at large. He is presented narratively as a messianic figure. He is not entirely human and not entirely beholden to human concepts of morality. He is a reactionary gauge of the moral health of the Galaxy as surely as he is an individual - and this is something he struggles with immensely. His human soul struggles with his fate and the tragedies that befall him and handling them. He is also not entirely in charge of his own free will.

His own free will is actually secondary and although his actions are important because he propels the narrative, from this POV Star Wars is ultimately about the other characters' reactions to Anakin as an agent of fate - Anakin is essentially the Old Woman appearing at the Castle in Beauty and the Beast, and the Jedi, Sith, Galaxy, and his friends are the people tasked with letting him in from the cold.

They almost all fail this test and display the darkness of the Galaxy towards the Innocent: Anakin was enslaved as a child, his mother murdered, the so-called compassionate Light-wielding Jedi made no exceptions for him as a young boy, the Sith took advantage of and manipulated him, Padme & Obi-wan had their own issues and were unable to see him entirely for who he was etc etc. This isn't to say they were all bad or even bad people at all! Or that the Jedi were bad~. But they failed the test anyway.

From this literary POV: Anakin was a test from the Force. And the Galaxy failed. Yet, despite this, Anakin's human half still fought for them, he was desperate to be a Jedi & truly believed in them and even returned to be one after the Prophecy was fulfilled and he was finally free. He mourns Padme (even as Vader) and cannot truly ever let go of Obi-wan as his partner (because he doesn't want to). His human half also burned for 20 years in the purgatory sarcophagus of Vader (it needed to "pay" for the human evil he took to enact the Prophecy).

Anakin wept when destroying the Temple and falling to the Dark. He knew becoming Vader would bring pain and suffering. He did not want to fall. Yes, he made choices that ensured he would because of his circumstances, but the tragedy is any of his choices would have lead him there. He was meant to fall in both the eyes of the Sith and Jedi, and to cast the Force's will upon them. This is why he was allowed to be a Force Ghost and reunited in everlasting life with Obi-wan. Because he was a tragic hero not a true villain.

Anakin Skywalker is a tragic hero who was in fact a slave his entire life. He is a tragic hero because his actions taken as per destiny (The Force at work) were engineered to cast him as a villain. No, he wasn't "evil" and yup... one could even argue... neither was Vader as a demi-god (though of course he commited evil). Anakin/Vader was merely an, sometimes unwilling, sometimes willing, always-tortured agent of the Force. One to be helped (Anakin) or defeated (Vader) as per the Force's test for the Galaxy.

This isn't anti-Jedi, either! Anakin loved the Jedi. You could argue importantly that the Force wanted the Jedi to prove themselves post destruction. It wanted the Galaxy to stop fighting one another (the War!) and focus on the true evil right under their nose (the Sith). It even gave them a target... Vader. One who stole their former future (symbolized by the younglings). And was then regifted as a second chance by Luke and Leia (younglings who represented a new Senate and Jedi Order) by Anakin.

For these reasons Anakin Skywalker is a tragic hero. He is not a villain and was not inherently evil, his destiny, one he fought valiantly against, was tragically to be an antagonist.

This meta isn't to say other's interpretations of Anakin's fall are wrong. They are all valid and fascinating (and often complement one another) - but this is simply another to add to the pile. One to consider when looking at the lore of Star Wars through the lens of the macrocosmic lens of "Fate" in a Tragedy.

#anakin skywalker #darth vader #obi wan kenobi #this isnt anti jedi either #the force wanted the jedi to prove themselves prove they would live on despite destruction #and it wanted the galaxy to stop fighting one another and to take out the sith (and gave them a target... Vader) #obikin #anidala #i have to defend my boy i see so many saying some things that dont seem entirely compelling or encompassing of the narrative #but to each their own honestly its all cool #i love to read everyones pov and incorporate diff things

[moobrvoobl-moobmoob-oobmpoobroom]

I just find it mind-boggling that some people will reblog things like “Anakin didn’t care about Rex and his men, he wouldn’t listen to Fives just because he was friends with Palpatine” and then in the next post be gushing over Rexwalker/Rexanidala like???? so you agree. Anakin does care about Rex?

#some people will literally hate on either Anakin or the Jedi council for reasons that explicitly contradict the point of the prequels #and then YOU'RE either toxically positive or condoning abuse for liking all the characters and having a nuanced view of things #the takes I mentioned in the body of this post literally wiped out the fact that Palpatine groomed and manipulated him for Years just so- #-they could say “wow the clones didn’t deserve what that horrible guy Anakin did to them” #me: okay. so you’re saying they didn’t deserve for him to show kindness and friendship and help reinforce the mindset of individuality they #-already had and that the majority of jedi encouraged because they are a group who treasure individuality and have compassion on everyone & #-all things??? #Anakin could be a shit person but he wasn’t to the clones and I will die on this hill #“he enslaved them” you’re pinning that on ANAKIN. a literal former slave. not the Republic or the Kaminoans? #he would have 0 reason to enslave them because he knows what that’s like. he’s been through that #why. WHY do people blame Anakin or the Jedi for 100% of everything going wrong instead of Palpatine. #you can blame Anakin for the choices he made and the Jedi Order for the oversights and legalism they started to have during the war #but enslavement of the clones??? not listening to Fives because of Palpatine??? #if you want to blame Anakin for the clones being slaves you have to blame the rest of the Jedi too #and we all know how rare it is for ‘Anakin antis’ to also be ‘Jedi order antis’ #quotation because there is a certain connotation and generalisation that comes with those phrases these days #I just don’t understand why Anakin is to blame for that specifically. blame him for being angry and violent and obsessive and turning to th #dark side logic+morals be damned to save one person yes but slavery??? he didn’t know about the chips and if he did you bet your ass he- #-would hate them just as much as the slave monitors on Tatooine #anyway #I want to see both sides of the debate i really do because some people have really good points on character motivations etc #but it’s getting ridiculous at this point. I always try to be a calm and positive space but some of y’all’s takes are contradictory bullshi #Fandom salt #swift talks #Swift rambles in the tags #vent #Jedi positive #meta #ish? #jedi positivity

[foundfamilynonsense]

When people say “Anakin was the only healthy jedi because he didn’t hold in his emotions” about the jedi it’s the same thing as saying “it’s healthy to fight in a relationship because otherwise you’re holding it in.”

No! That is NOT how it works. Good GOD that’s not how it works.

Yes, it’s not healthy to HOLD IN your grievance in a romantic relationship. If you hate the way your partner does this you should tell them. Don’t just be angry in secret. But you shouldn’t fight about it! Being angry and blowing up is not the only alternative to holding in emotions!

Don’t be like “I hate it when you do this you do it on purpose just to spite me I fucking hate you” to which they’ll reply “you’re a freak what’s wrong with you I’m going to do it more now”

Perhaps instead you say “hi I wanted to let you know that you putting your shoes here is bothering me and I was wondering if you’d be willing to put them here instead” and they say “the problem with putting them there is that the dog finds them” and you work on a solution. Obviously that’s a stupid example but that’s what people mean when they say it’s the two of you against the problem not against each other.

So… sure. It’s not healthy to repress emotion. But the Jedi aren’t repressing emotions!! That’s what ANAKIN’s doing. Blowing up and keeping it in are not the only two paths.

It’s like how “fighting” in a relationship is not the same as “discussing issues” in a relationship.

So instead of saying… “my master is overly critical. He never listens. He doesn’t understand! It’s not fair!” To someone who’s not even your master. You go to their master and say things like “sometimes you are very critical and I feel like I am better than you are giving me credit for” and they say “the reason I haven’t suggested you take the trials is because sometimes you rush in without thinking” so you say “I rush in because I feel like I’m ready but I’ll work on that, though I could benefit from more freedom” and have an actual human conversation (less robotic than this but whatever). That’s not suppressing emotions.

Instead of thinking to yourself “I’m not ready to train an apprentice because I’m not fully trained myself and I’m scared of failing” but keeping that to yourself or screaming at your apprentice and therefore sharing your fears with him. Master Yoda urges Kanan to “of this decision, honest you must be” and Kanan says, outloud to Yoda “I’m not sure of my decision to train Ezra, not because of him or his abilities, because of me. Because of who I am” and “I sense his abilities are growing faster than I can teach him” and Yoda asks “you sense or you fear?” And Kanan doesn’t deny it.

Notice how this conversation is calm and pleasant? But is there any emotional repression? No! Kanan is actively talking and addressing his emotions to someone who can help him. He’s not bottling it up and then yelling about it to people who aren’t involved in the issue. Hes not letting this fear control him and make him a worse master. He’s also very open with this fear to Ezra, and tells him that he’s not sure if he’s got the abilities to teach him all the time. Instead of brooding in silence he is open with his emotions, and they don’t control him. He controls them.

But Anakin just yells at Padme a little, and says absolutely zero to Obi Wan about this. Until they are, say, facing off with a Sith Lord and Anakin decides he’s done taking orders from Obi-Wan and runs in and gets zapped, leaving Obi-Wan to fight him alone. So… how is Obi-Wan supposed to help if Anakin doesn’t state why he’s being so unpredictable? So all Obi-Wan sees is Anakin being rash and stupid, and holds him back. And Anakin gets mad about being held back and round and round they go. We see Obi-Wan being open with Anakin. We see him state the problems (we know Anakin knows the problems, he tells Padme about them) and we also see him praise Anakin to his face, often. It’s Anakin who refuses to communicate and just represses and yells.

They don’t repress anger. They address conflict before it makes them angry. They think about why they have anger and overcome it. And if you’re in the middle of a fight and get angry they have the emotional maturity to take a deep breath and focus on what’s at hand. Then after they can take that anger and address it with master Yoda or whomever.

If you think the only two options are to repress or fight and yell and throw a fit…. That’s not great. Being calm and explaining yourself. Addressing issues.

#this got long #and I can already hear jedi antis in the comments being like #but they didn’t let them love either because they didn’t let Anakin have a secret marriage 😤😫 #like no they did love you just can’t imagine love without romance because of amatonormativity #pro jedi #clone wars #anakin skywalker #anti star wars fandom

[rejector-of-mortal-flesh]

Honestly, it's so exhausting looking through both the pro jedi tags and the anti jedi tags. Like both of them make valid points, but both sometimes sound kinda silly. Like sometimes the pro jedi stuff will say the jedi did nothing wrong and I'm like hmm I don't think that's totally true and there's anti jedi stuff that's like anakin skywalker did nothing wrong and I'm like did we watch the same movie?

And then the pro jedi tags say despite whatever flaws they may have had, the jedi order ultimately wanted peace and to protect others and to help and I'm like yes that's true and then there's anti jedi that are like well the jedi shouldn't have used the clones as slave /child soldiers nor used their padawans as commanders and I'm like yea that's true too.

Like how do other fans deal with this? This is kinda why I stick to looking at fanart and memes on tumblr cause this stuff drains me.

#star wars #anti jedi #pro jedi #I like to stay out of either side cause of this #alexander speaks #jedi critical

[coldgoldlazarus]

For the record I think the sith apologists (if they really exist, since I've only ever heard of them secondhand) are fucking weirdos too.

But the "Jedi did absolutely nothing wrong ever, no matter the entire film trilogy that says otherwise" crowd don't just annoy me but legit give me bad vibes.

#not a reblog #star wars #star wars discourse #i dont agree with the hardline anti-jedi people #but I may just become one out of raw spite #my uncles treating the OT as the undisputed #god-masterpieces of cinema doesn't help either #(also idc about the cultural practice excuse #recruiting young and vulnerable is a cult tactic) #(that has been the one anti-jedi take I agree with completely)

[david-talks-sw]

Hi! So a month ago there was this video from Sage's Rain titled "Exploring Obi-Wan Kenobi - The Man Who Failed The Jedi (Star Wars)"

And I was wondering if you've ever watched the video and if you did, whats your opinion on it?

I'm interested to see what arguments you have up in your sleeves to counter Sage's points.

I steer away from the Star Wars part of YouTube.

So I've not seen it (and probably won't watch it later either because I'm trying this new thing where instead of bitching about things in a commentary section, I try to write meta or scripts or make illustrations translating my emotions), but my opinion on whether Obi-Wan failed Anakin is already written here:

With a little bonus here:

And here:

#obi-wan kenobi #star wars youtube is an echo chamber that either #regurgitates stuff from wookieepedia #repeats the same anti-Jedi BS #or promotes racism and sexism by grasping at straws #QnA #shamelessly using this as an excuse to share some of my best-researched posts

[ursa-majora]

Anyone else ever think about how fucked up it is that jedi are kind of just above the law and face no consequences for any of their actions

#star wars #anakin skywalker #obi wan kenobi #ahsoka tano #the jedi #the jedi order #not anti jedi but not pro jedi either #lets use critical thinking skills and nuance ppl #Yoda #the prequels #the clone wars #tcw

[melhekhelmurkun]

The Jedi Order: attachment is bad and forbidden and it only leads down the path of darkness!!!

Also the Jedi Order: *literally encourages strong parental bonds between Padawan and Master that have a literal emotional bond aspect in which they can feel each other’s emotions/thoughts*

#yes I know that’s not exactly what they meant #but in practice it is #and before anyone says anything about them meaning romantic they do NOT #force sensitive children are taken at a young age specifically to avoid parental bonds #and one of Anakin’s biggest failings was how he reacted to his mother’s death #hell Obi-Wan straight up cut a dude in half when Qui-Gon was killed (yes I’m aware that ‘dude’ was a Sith) #and I’m sure many people would say Obi-Wan was one of the best Jedi in the Order (not just fighting-wise but in general) #sorry I just find it really funny and also irritating how hypocritical the Order was about everything #am I saying the answer was genocide and treason? fuck no #but Anakin wasn’t entirely wrong for feeling like the Jedi Order had a lot of issues and that most of them were unfair to begin with #star wars #jedi #I’m not by any means anti Jedi but I’m sure as hell not pro Jedi either

[chaoticspacefam]

There’s quite a few points in the Consular story where it’s honestly really hard for me to determine what Aria would do, and sometimes the answer is a WEIRD one. This bit on Taris is one of ‘em.

So, you’re offered a choice between saving this woman, Laria (Light-side) and saving the Jedi holocrons with a bunch of medical data that could save “thousands” of lives - supposedly (Dark-side). I always thought Aria would be the “pick to save the holocrons” gal but strangely enough after agonising on the decision for a few minutes....I ended up concluding she’d save Laria. NOT out of the goodness of her heart though (sorry Laria, I like you pfft🤣) but rather because, well...on one hand, Darth Noctis (her father) would certainly have interest/be invested in getting his hands on those holocrons full of information he might be able to eventually use to his advantage. But on the other...letting the holocrons explode means the Jedi don’t have access to them either. Considering Aria’s whole schtick is “sabotage the Jedi from the inside out so that by the time we hit Tython at the end it’s almost a clean sweep” I feel like objectively it makes sense for her to “choose” Laria over the holocrons in this instance.

It’ll be really interesting from my perspective to see where else in this story she ends up choosing the “Light-sided” dialogue options except in Subterfugeverse canon it will be entirely for fucked up and selfish reasons so, you know, objectively it is NOT a light-side choice at all for that reason. 🤣😛

#swtor #elven's swtor screenshots #elven's swtor headcanons #subterfugeverse #subterfugeverse lore ish #swtor oc: aria saal #jedi consular (sith assassin) #ds! jedi consular #in case ya missed the memo aria is very much an anti-hero #and also not 100% a good person. actually tbh not a *good* person at all really #she is; in essence tho; very much a ''feral cat who vano; w/ *IMMENSE* time & patience gentled into being handle-able (doing good things #on occasion bc it's beneficial to either her or someone she *DOES* care about'' #she's a *VERY* interesting blorbo for sure and i love her so much #she's such a challenging main character to write for/about bc in a lot of ways aria is the complete *OPPOSITE* to me #which is always...fun (interesting) to work out wtf is going on in her fucked up little head :'D #(like all of our swtor ocs she is very much not ok. someone get this child fuckin therapy /srs XD)

[loveoaths]

i’m not going to comment on the darksaber meta post going around, but it states that the darksaber is being used as a fun glowy weapon like a lightsaber just without the emotional regulation requirement… and i could be wrong, but i’m not sure if that’s true? at least not in the mandalorian.

the darksaber does have an emotional regulation component to it, as far as i understand? you can’t just wield it willynilly, you have to clear your mind and have a clarity of conviction and purpose, and, judging by the people we’ve seen claim it and actually use it well, a sense of duty to protect and serve. how and what you want to serve seems less relevant to the darksaber.

from the way it’s presented in new media (and without me knowing the details of its construction), it feels like it’s meant to be a meshing of the two cultural viewpoints from, presumably, the point of view of tarre viszla: when you act, you must act with a clear mind and conviction, in an effort to solve conflict, to unify. to cleave.

anyway, i found the rest of the post interesting, and i don’t even know if i disagree with the rest of it. i just bumped on this one point.

#tbf that post also seems anti-mando which is cool if that’s your thing but it’s not mine so i’m not commenting on it or coming at ya #i like the Jedi and the mandalorians and don’t get anyone who hates either but that’s okay! we are in different circles of the same fandom #i sense some of the anti-mando vibes also come from ppl more familiar with eu materials/who are annoyed with new fans coming from watching #the mando show and being irritated by people thinking the mandalorians are cool while dissing or ignoring the Jedi #but idk man. i’m very ‘not my monkeys not my circus’ so i ignore fans who are anti-anything 🤷🏾‍♂️ #walkie talkie. #i also know like wiki levels of stuff abt tarre so don’t come at me lmfao I’m solely going off of what’s available in the mainstream content #i found the rest of the post interesting btw

[maloosh-baloosh64]

lowkey very happy im not the only one who dislike the jedi in star wars holy shit i thought i was losing my mind

#star wars #maloosh rambles #not really sure if its anyhing i wanna dablle in im not really a fandom discourse enjoyer #but i guess i consider myself partially anti jedi #im anti jedi as a government religious instituion #pro jedi as nomadic wizards who try to do what is right #its hard because star wars wildly varies in its ability to have moral nuance and tumblr reading comprehension is dogshit #obviously the stuff sith get up to in star wars is not good either but like i think jedi have capacity for evil too #in a more subtle systemic way

[nateofgreat]

"What's wrong with the Acolyte being Jedi critical? It's okay to criticize them since they have a monopoly on the Force don't they?"

Okay, let me break this down.

1: The Jedi do not have a monopoly on the Force.

Say, remember the Nightsisters of Dathomir? The dark side cult that the Jedi tolerate. They even go there to negotiate in the Clone Wars without making any threats to their continued existence. The only time they ever come into conflict is when they leave Dathomir to mess with someone else.

They're not the only ones either. The media doesn't focus on it much, but there are dozens of different Force-based organizations in SW (Legends and Disney canon) that the Jedi Order coexists with. There's also the simple fact that the parents of Force sensitive children can simply decline the Jedi's offer which would indicate that there are people in the Galaxy with the Force who live independently from the Jedi.

As it happens the only organization the Jedi are constantly fighting are the Sith and for darn good reasons.

2: What's wrong with being critical of the Jedi?

Let's not split hairs here. The "criticism" the Jedi get nowadays almost always seems to end with, "and that's why they deserved to be exterminated down to the children via Order 66." So, pro-Jedi fans are a bit on guard when they hear that a project is "Jedi critical."

Now, in theory, there's nothing wrong with characters in-universe having disagreements with the Jedi way or having criticisms of them. However, despite the show's claim to not be about "good vs evil" I think it's VERY likely to posit that the Jedi are wholly in the wrong and to blame for the conflict in some manner. While downplaying the actions of the villain on account of them being a victim.

Why do I think that? Because the trailer.

3: "This isn't about good or evil. It's about power and who's allowed to use it."

Right at the climax of the trailer is this line. Which spells pretty clearly that the show is saying that just, doesn't matter if the Jedi are good, because they're also powerful and influential in their own regard. So in the show's mind that means they're the problem.

They might offer a halfhearted condemnation of the serial killer murdering them for no reason but chances are they'll suggest that they're not really the problem: that the Jedi are for being powerful. I've even seen quotes floating around saying that show will ask the question "what if the Sith are really just the underdogs?" when they go around blowing up planets.

As for the question itself. It's likewise silly as the Jedi don't actually persecute other Force traditions or force everyone to join them. They don't even force you to stay once you've joined. So it doesn't seem like they're attempting to control the Force at all. Meanwhile, the Sith want to dominate the Galaxy and either exterminate or enslave any opposing traditions.

So the question itself is self-defeating.

Oh and while I'm here...

4: There is no "endless cycle"

Slightly off-topic but it comes up a lot as a defense of the anti-Jedi mindset. It goes something like, "The Jedi perpetuate an endless cycle of war because the Sith keep coming back!"

First off, it's not the Jedi's fault that some lunatics keep popping back up to try and control the Galaxy. All they do is stop them every time they do.

Secondly, the "cycle" only exists because new books keep getting written. Stories need conflict and thus the Sith are revived over and over again.

Thirdly, please someone try to tell me that this could be avoided if the Jedi let their members marry or something.

And fourthly, the cycle's honestly not that bad because the Jedi just win every time and restore peace to the Galaxy for a long period.

#anti the Acolyte #Acolyte critical #the Acolyte critical #Star Wars #The Jedi #Pro Jedi #In defense of the Jedi #the Sith #the Acolyte Trailer

[jedi-enthusiast]

One thing I hate the most with anti Jedi people is how they bastardize the clones.

I've seen fics and pieces where the clones straight up despise the Jedi- or see them as bad leaders. Or don't rly care for them bc "they don't care for us either"

Like- there was a reason why Palps needed litteral mind control to get them to hurt the Jedi. If you want the clones to rebel against the Republic and tear into it, by all means do it ! But leave the Jedi out of this.

The Jedi and the Clones were eachother's best friends.

Krell was the expection.

People should start to get some media literacy and understand the damn point.

No literally.

Like, if you want to hate the Jedi---fine! Whatever! It's your choice! But don't go around pretending that characters who are literally shown to love the Jedi hate them too just because you can't deal with the fact that you're objectively wrong about them.

They do the same shit with Luke, pretending that he hated Yoda or Obi-Wan or the Prequels Jedi Order just because they hate them---despite the fact that Luke is shown to care and be fond of both Obi-Wan and Yoda, and the fact that he specifically wants to rebuild the Order.

Is his new Order different than the old one? Yes.

But that's because Palpatine literally destroyed all information about the Jedi and their Order, leaving only his propaganda and what little information people were able to save/salvage, and destroyed/desecrated every Temple he could find.

It wasn't an intentional change, it was the result of a cultural genocide!

Yet so many fics- (and tbh tumblr posts) -about Luke portray him as this "holier than thou" figure saying- "oh the old Jedi were bad, but I'm better than them and so is my order! Also fuck Yoda!" -for no fucking reason except they want to pretend that the main character shares their views so they can then project themselves onto him.

It's the reason why I avoid reading dinluke fics even though I actually really enjoy the idea of the ship, because every fic I've seen has Luke hating being a Jedi and/or "struggling with his feelings because love totally = attachment" even though attachment is literally shown to be obsessive and selfish love, aka putting one person over the rest of the galaxy- (*cough* Anakin *cough*).

Like I'm so sick of it.

The clones loved the Jedi.

Luke loved the Jedi and loves being a Jedi.

Get the fuck over it.

#star wars #sw original trilogy #sw prequels #the clone wars #the clones #luke skywalker #dinluke #pro jedi #in defense of the jedi

[david-talks-sw]

I think it's interesting that - in order to make his "free-thinking Jedi" characters hold any semblance of rationality in their arguments - Dave Filoni needs to resort to artificially dehumanizing the other Jedi and painting them all with the same "we dogmatically worship protocol" brush.

He does this with Huyang in the recent Ahsoka episode.

"Lolz he's so narrow-minded, preachy and by-the-book, unable to think outside the box, just like the Jedi in the Prequels."

My first reaction was being amused at the fact that Filoni had to resort to making the Jedi Order's ideals and rules be embodied by a literal machine for his anti-Jedi headcanon to start making sense.

But then I remembered: Huyang isn't just any droid.

In The Clone Wars, he had a sassy personality, he had a pep in his step, he had a sense of humor...

This character was human in his behavior, he was fun and whimsical.

But now he's been reduced to, I dunno, "Jedi C-3PO"? Basically?

"Ha! He's blunt and unsympathetic because he's a droid, but it's funny because the Jedi were the same, they were training themselves to be tactless, emotionless droids."

And Filoni does this with Mace Windu too, in Tales of the Jedi.

Mace, who brought a lightsaber to the throat of a planetary leader to defend the endangered Zillo Beast...

... and who went waaay past his mandate by mischievously sneaking around Bardottan authorities and breaking into the Queen's quarters because he felt something bad was afoot...

... was reduced to being an almost droid-like, rule-parotting, protocol purist who sticks to his instructions (and is implied to be willing to let a murder go unsolved so he can get a promotion).

I mentioned this at the end of my first post on Luke in The Last Jedi... while changes in personality do happen overtime and can be explained in-universe... if you don't show us that progression and evolution and just leave us without that context, that'll break the suspension of disbelief, for your audience.

Here, we have two characters with a different (almost caricatural) personality than the one they were originally shown to have.

Now... we could resort to headcanons, to make it all fit together.

We could justify Huyang's tone shift 'cause "Order 66 changed him". And we could make explanations about TotJ's Mace:

Being younger and thus more ambitious and a stickler for the rules, and only really becoming more flexible after getting his seat on the Council and gaining more maturity.

Being such a teacher's pet in the episode because we're seeing him through the eyes of a notorious unreliable narrator, Dooku.

There'd be nothing wrong with opting to go with either of those headcanons to cope with this. After all, Star Wars is meant to help you get creative.

But the problem I encounter is that:

Filoni has an anti-Jedi bias, so the above headcanons clearly wouldn't really track with his intended narrative.

We'd be jumping through hoops to extrapolate and fill in what is, essentially, inconsistent characterization, manufactured to make Ahsoka and Dooku shine under a better light.

And that sours whatever headcanon I come up with.

Edit: Also, yeah, as folks have been saying in the tags... wtf is "Jedi protocol"? The term isn't ever mentioned in the movies, I skimmed through dialog transcripts of TCW, never saw it there.

So it's almost as if - if Filoni wasn't draining characters like Mace and Huyang of all humanity and nuance - his point about "the Jedi were too detached and lost their way, but not free-thinkers like Qui-Gon, Dooku and Ahsoka" wouldn't really hold much water.

#I *will* acknowledge that part of this may also be that in a cartoon like TCW - characters with no moving facial features like Huyang... #... had to be more expressive in other ways; hence why he's so active in the cartoon; which may not translate well to live action. #Then again- look at how expressive and emotive that Hondo Ohnaka animatronic is at Galaxy's Edge. #And the fact remains that he went from a whimsical Mr. Ollivander type figure to... a droid with data on the Jedi... #... all so Ahsoka would seem more human and grounded by contrast #ahsoka series #ahsoka spoilers #ahsoka show #star wars ahsoka #huyang #tales of the jedi #totj #dooku #mace windu #ahsoka tano #star wars #dave filoni #disney plus