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mokeonn · 2 months

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I finally actually watched Hazbin Hotel because I was like "I really shouldn't be so judgey, how can I say I hate a show I haven't even watched?" And I can safely say after 5 episodes in:

I hate it.

So I will preface this rant about my feelings towards this controversial show with the following positive statements:

I understand why people enjoy the show, it's fun, the animation is really enjoyable to watch, the music numbers are pretty good, the voice acting is also good, and the whole thing feels like it was constructed around a fandom. Though that last part is a flaw in the overall series, I completely see why people enjoy it. If a series was practically built around making fanfiction, ocs, or fun redesigns, people are gonna have fun making those things. I literally can't blame anyone for enjoying this show. It should also go without saying that I don't think people are morally evil for enjoying the show. I do believe, however, that your taste in shows is bad if you love this show.

I came into this show expecting the WORST. Everything I was told about it was how it was such an awful show and all the horrible things it does. So I was expecting the worst thing I've ever watched to appear before me tonight.

So imagine my surprise when the first 3 episodes aren't that bad. They aren't good, but they're not awful. It's just mid! The animation is fun to watch, the songs are catchy, and the pacing is only a little off. There were a lot of little moments where we got payoff with no set-up. Things like a dramatic reveal of a character that appears to want to evoke a "oh woah, it's that guy!!" moment, but we don't even know who that guy is. A character belting out a dramatic emotional ballad that is also a duet with another major character, but we were introduced to that character earlier that episode and we don't know her well enough to really care about her heartfelt emotional song. Moments that felt more awkward than anything else. Other than that, the show wasn't too bad! I was enjoying myself! I was worried that I was going to enjoy this extremely hated series and how it was going to reflect on my public tumblr image!

And then episode 4 hit.

Episode 4 starts off very similar to the others, and all around, I think it's a pretty good episode if it wasn't for the ending, but we'll get to that.

Episode 4 is a heavier episode dealing with Angel Dust's abuse at the hands of his boss. It gets fairly graphic at points, but with the way people were describing it, I was actually expecting far worse. It has a catchy song from Angel Dust about this abuse, and towards the end, he falls into a self-destructive spiral and vents about how much he wants to basically crash and burn in the hopes that maybe the abuse would stop or he would become too fucked up to notice/care anymore. You know what? This is a pretty heavy hitting topic and really spoke to me as a person who is dealing with addiction and struggles with depression spirals. I felt a lot of what Angel Dust was feeling, even if our situations were completely different. What is the response our little pink spider friend gets? An admittedly catchy song about how he's right that he sucks and he's a loser, "but hey, I'm a loser too! So we can be losers together."

Now, I get what the song is TRYING to say. It's trying to say that you're not alone, that "if you're a loser, then I'm a loser too. But we can be losers together." Which is a nice sentiment and all... but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. It doesn't portray this idea that you're not alone in this world, and there's plenty of people going through similar experiences, so it's important to connect with each other. It instead focuses on feeling more self-depreciating, which is fine and all, but it feels like an inappropriate time to be self-depreciating.

If a person with very low self-esteem vents about their abuse and talks down about themselves, and admits to wanting to self-harm by committing self-destructive behaviors on purpose... I think "seld-depreciation" is the last thing I would want to do with that person.

I get it. The song is trying to be funny and silly with self-depreciating humor to lighten the dark mood and show how Angel Dusk and the weird deep voiced cat-boy (yes, I know his name is Husk) are now getting along and relating to eachother by making jokes about how stupid they were to get into their awful situations... but the song really leaves a sour taste in my mouth because it just feels... wrong. It feels like the wrong response.

The story makes it seem like the song breaks this cycle of self-destructive behaviors and allows the characters to make the first step towards redemption/breaking the cycle of abuse; The song does not fit this theme, it instead just continues that cycle while the story continues on as if it did something else.

I might not be conveying my reasons for WHY the song left a bad taste in my mouth very well, but all you really need to know is that the vibes were off and it seemed like there was something left on the cutting room floor or a mistake between the writers and song writers.

Episode 5 is where I stopped. Like, I can't even finish it. Those previously mentioned pacing issues were nothing compared to the constant wave of hits episode 5 gave me.

First off, we are getting payoff for something that was actually set up! Popping some bottles here! It happens a couple times in the other episodes, but here: a major character is revealed after being talked about and foreshadowed in previous episodes! This really was a first in the series as most of the time, characters were just introduced when the story needed them, causing those awkward moments where a villain or major character got introduced. Valentino was introduced in an episode with some build-up earlier in said episode, but having a character actually be hinted at in earlier episodes before a reveal felt completely new.

And then it was... disappointing. The payoff did not match the set-up. I will state it right now. Lucifer, as a character, caused me to entirely stop watching the show mid episode 5. When you have this big dramatic backstory about how he was an angel of creation who wanted to create, a rebel who went against all he'd ever known to meet another rebel and fall in love with her, a deeply sad man who hid away refusing to take part in ruling hell, leaving it all to his wife? The fact that this is based on Christian theology and Lucifer already has ages of connotation and lore attached to him? Idk I think, "self depreciating, awkward, sad man who doesn't know how to greet his daughter on the phone, and spends all his time making little toy ducks" is... a huge fucking let-down. I understand they're trying to go a more humorous route of "He isn't scary at all, he's just a huge dork!" But it doesn't work, and it just makes me cringe. This alone would be a lot to process in one episode... but Episode 5 still has a LOT of punches in it!

The episode first states that they only have a couple months before the deadline, implying that around 4 months have passed since the first and second episode. Nothing really implies that much time passing between episode 1 and 4, and in the episode, Charlie states all the things they have been working on. Which is things we have already seen in the show. Which tells me that they really haven't been working on anything offscreen during this sudden time skip, so what the fuck happened between episodes 1-4??

Anyways, I could have misread this entire thing and thought far too much into Charlie's stress and the "only a couple months away!". With the word "couple" and the stress the character is clearly going through, I assumed that they were 2 months from the deadline, but maybe I was wrong. I don't know. I didn't finish the episode, and I'm not watching any more.

The first major "hit by a truck" moment was when Lucifer makes his way to the hotel and suddenly, he gets into a feud with Allister. They both sing a song about who is the better Dad to Charlie, and I am sitting there confused because, huh?? Wha?? Where the fuck did this "Allister Dad" thing come from?? NOWHERE in the last 4 episodes (nor the pilot) imply this relationship. Allister is the tumblr sexyman Mary-sue who gets at least 1 new power every episode. Nothing about him out of his entire screen time was paternal. Just as my confusion reaches a boiling point... they introduce a new character suddenly with an unearned "it's ME!" Intro (although unlike past intros, it is ironic).

She's a sassy little flapper who is friends with Allister and whose only purpose this episode is to cause problems to come to the Hotel's way later in the episode, and to give Allister's backstory. A backstory that we really didn't need. Like REALLY didn't need. Seriously this entire show we have been told and shown that Allister is a powerful demon who is feared and not to be messed with. This backstory reveals that he is... a powerful demon who is feared and not to be messed with. The only purpose of this backstory is to reveal a spooky thing he does so he can use it as a threat later in the episode.

Husk confronts Allister about his friend because she always brings trouble, and he snaps at Allister, making a sassy comment. Allister threatens Husk with the previously mentioned spooky thing he is totally known for that was revealed in the backstory.

Lucifer does not approve of the hotel, which makes an awkward scene where Charlie is trying to explain her thinking and her personal experience to her absent father and Lucifer shoots her down by poorly hinting that it just "wouldn't work" because he knows from personal experience. I am not having a good time watching two characters communicate poorly primarily because I hate one of them so much.

The previously mentioned trouble comes their way, and Allister reveals new awesome Allister powers for the 3rd time this episode and goes off to fight off the trouble. Charlie uses this as a way to try to reason with her father. Allister finishes his fight and scolds his friend for using him to fight off the trouble she gets into like Husk said earlier. He then informs here that she either needs to leave or come and stay at the hotel to rehabilitate. She stomps off, and I feel so tired of a third huge payoff with not a lot of set-up.

Allister (who I probably have been misspelling his name this whole time and no I will NOT check) feels like he did a ton of development and growth... entirely off screen. This feels like a 180 to me. This entire show he has been this evil, off-putting guy, that vaguely helps at the hotel, does creepy things, threaten people, and use plot armor powers to save the day or do cool things. So suddenly having an episode where it's stated he has a paternal relationship with Charlie, which has NOT been shown or even HINTED at whatsoever, and where he suddenly turns away a troublemaking friend to protect the hotel he wanted to see fall apart? It's a total 180 from what I'm used to. One could claim that the sudden protection of the hotel was because he wanted to protect his investment, and he knew his friend was using him so he just sent her on her way or offered for her to be tortured in the friendship hotel. I can see an argument for why he didn't threaten or harm his friend when he has killed people or threatened to kill people for less (pretty strong friendship that goes way back when blah blah blah) I can argue about the inconsistencies in how he acts towards the end of this episode compared to the previous episodes of the show all I want.

But come on, you can't argue the sudden paternal thing. That came out of nowhere.

At this point I just, turned off the episode and called it quits. I have heard that the most glaring writing issues come later in the season, and if episode 5 was this bad, I don't wanna keep watching.

Part of me wants to continue watching, as the animation is really enjoyable to watch, and the music is actually pretty fun. But I just know that I'm not going to enjoy myself at all from here on out. It's all going to be downhill from here, and it'll frustrate me. I'm not gonna spend my time watching something I'll hate.

If I wanna watch something frustrating, I'd just watch Jerma play my favorite game for the first time.

#simon says #LONG post #under a read more for a reason #i just... REALLY wanted to complain and vent #also no i did not spell a bunch of names correctly #and also NO none of this is up for debate its all opinion #that one vine like #THATS MY OPINIOOONN #:/ :[#anyways feel free to skip im probably gonna delete it in the morning #it's funny though #my friend told me he liked the show but sees why people dislike it #and I said I disliked the show but see how people can like it #we're both galaxy brained because that's just a normal take to have on things #no more discourse about it. just a simple 'this is my opinion but i get why people disagree with me'#which is the most milquetoast of takes

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earthbovndmisfit · 7 months

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I've been seeing lots of takes lately with people feeling hatred towards part 2 Speedwagon for being a greedy capitalist who probably exploited people and done some shady stuff to become wealthy because there was '''no way he could have become rich just from oil money'''... thoughts?

it's so disappointing to see some bad takes about the Speedwagon Foundation being some "acshually nasty organization" and about Speedwagon supposedly becoming some heartless rich man popping up again. And like, I shouldn't even be surprised at this point considering how the average "Jojo fan" mistreats Part 1 and 2 and alllll the misinformation they love to spread about them and about some characters in particular, often bastardizing them into wildly out of character versions and pretending those fanons are canon for whatever reason (being Speedwagon one of the characters that gets bastardized like that the most), sometimes just to make Blorbo Of Their Choice look better by throwing every other character under the bus, sometimes just because people can't be bothered to pay attention to the og if there are no punching ghosts on sight (and even then, Jojo parts featuring stands get misinterpreted a lot too).

This is gonna be long, so let me start by saying that if y'all really believe that Speedwagon somehow became some nasty ass rich man, then you're completely misinformed and you (and I say "you" in general and not specifically you anon) might benefit from rereading/rewatching the source material and actually paying attention to the plot and details this time.

Like, I've seen people assuming that the Foundation only researched the stone mask and eventually stand stuff, and completely forgetting that one of the literal main goals and also one of the biggest things the Foundation does is seeking for the betterment of the planet as a whole (preserving nature, wildlife, etc) as well as for the betterment of medicine and health care, actually seeking for the best for all humankind, this in addition to all the secret branches it has for the research of supernatural phenomena like stands, stone masks, pillar men, and so on in order to prevent as many incidents with them as possible and prevent the loss of as innocent lives as possible.

Sure, the people working for those latter branches might get into deep trouble sometimes whenever some jerk with a stone mask or a stand starts some shit, but, another thing jojo fans tend to conveniently forget is that those employees are working for the secret/non-public branches of the Foundation. We as audience know about them because we are let into seeing them working as part of the narrative, however, the public in general within the story DO NOT KNOW about the existence of those branches or what they do. Pillar men, stone masks, stands and the research around them are kept in secret in order to prevent any sorts of chaos and ensuing panic, among other safety reasons.

The people working for those branches are specialized or at least have some prior knowledge on those fields they work in (you'd think it is a MUST considering they are being let in on sensitive information that could be super detrimental for the planet and for humankind if it fell in the wrong hands), meaning that those employees already know and are fully aware of the kind of stuff they're going to deal with there from the start. They weren't deceived into it, and the fact that the employees remain loyal to Speedwagon from start to end and respect and follow his will, even long after his death, denotes that there was some deep and mutual respect and appreciation there, something you can't earn through exploitation, and definitely something these people wouldn't have done had Speedwagon been the heartless tyrant rich old man some people with a lack of media literacy want to believe and make others believe he was.

If people paid just a wee bit more attention to earlier Jojo parts, they would have realized it was all spelled out from the beginning too! Speedwagon expressly states from the very start his disgust and hatred towards the rich, being the Joestars the only exception to that due to them being genuinely kind persons, unlike most other wealthy people out there. He was also implied to have been dirt poor for most of his life and was also stated to have lived in the slums at least up to PB's main timeline. There were never any indications or signs that showed that he ever betrayed those roots of his by siding with the rich against the poor over the years. Instead, he's been using his funds to make the whole world a better place for everyone, not only by improving health care and access for all people as well as the environment (which would actually show a sense of duty from him as he is counteracting whatever negative impact his oil company may have had on the planet), but also providing all the aid he can against supernatural threats.

And not just that, but he's also kept some of his connections with the crime world over the years. However, rather than using those connections for selfish goals, he makes use of them to workaround the system in cases like Lisa Lisa's, where he used all those influences he had to help her go successfully into hiding after killing the zombie that murdered George (an undercover zombie that was actually a higher up within the army and who everyone believed to be a regular human, hence their chasing after her to make her pay for that "crime" she had supposedly committed). Additionally, if you know anything about big companies and organizations, you'll know that the law is also not always there to protect regular people, and sometimes, it will cater to the more profitable goals, as well as some businessmen actively being shady af and "hindering" their rivals for their own benefit. The Speedwagon Foundation being an organization that vouches and actively works for the wellbeing of people would have probably ruffled countless feathers among those who seek for a personal gain, to say the least (think of the hijackers that tried to kidnap him, as shown in the flashback in BT, i.e). This is also where those connections he keeps with criminals come into play, as there are never any mentions about Speedwagon doing shady stuff through them nor using them to pursue some personal goal, which hints at the fact that he keeps and uses those nexus as means of protection against actual enemies. Defense rather than offense, if you will.

Also, lets not forget that Speedwagon found his reason to change his ways when he met Jonathan, and that a lot of the things the Foundation does are things Jonathan himself would have gone into had he not passed away (the archaeological research, the deep studying of the stone mask -which eventually led to the discovery of the pillar men just in time before their awakening-, all in order to prevent more incidents like the whole thing with Dio from happening, and so on). It's downright silly to think Speedwagon would even think of betraying Jonathan and his memory by using not only the second chance he received from Jojo himself, but also using the literal monument Speedwagon built to honor the deep bond and mutual affection the two had back when Jonathan was alive for some selfish goal.

And also, lets not forget how disgusted he was with Dio and every single vile thing he did to everyone. Do you really think he would want to follow a path similar to his, in which people are just another step for him to walk all over?? If so, then you sure are completely wrong about who Speedwagon really is like.

Those "he became some nasty capitalist lol", pretending that Spw became some heartless and selfish wealthy man along the way for no reason, all despite the heaps of constant evidence the canon has presented, even long after Speedwagon's passing away in the story, that shows that that was never the case only go to show that people are lazy and that paying attention to the story and the details in it is just something some Jojo fans will actively refuse to do and then will make the worst bullshit takes up about it.

Also?? People do realize that it's possible to become rich and not be some piece of shit?? Like, sure, I do agree that most wealthy people irl ARE shit and scummy af, but there will always be a few exceptions, you just don't always see them because the real kind ones don't go around telling everyone about every single kind act they do, they just put their money to good use to make their own employees lives better, or invest/donate money every chance they get to some organization of their trust and so on. Adding to this, do you all even realize people can't just throw money out of the window and that as a business person you always need to keep some capital to actually make your business thrive and so you can continue helping other people out in this case where BIG SUMS of money are being put to use in favor of actual civilians and people from all walks of life??

((Edit to add yet another Very Obvious display that Speedwagon never sided with the rich, not even in his older years: Smokey Brown! The kid is literally a mirror of Speedwagon’s own younger self in that both were criminals from the streets in a large city (London in Spw’s case, NY in Smokey’s), immersed in crime and poverty and most likely having to resort to crime as a mean to survive in a society that was even more classist (and also racist, and this can actually be seen in BT when one of the mafiosos starts spewing shit towards Smokey due to his skin color) than it is nowadays, both having no known parents or family either and having been most likely orphaned/abandoned. Had Speedwagon been this nasty ass rich man, he could have simply ignored Smokey or treated him poorly, or could have even turned him to authorities, considering Smokey’s criminal record just for the sake of “preventing him from stealing from him” or whatever. There was literally nothing Spw could benefit himself from by keeping Smokey around like he did, which is a core trait in abusive/exploitative people. However, he never did any of that. Instead, and despite the reigning classism and racism at the time, Speedwagon along with Erina always embraced Smokey from the start and basically became his godparents, never letting the kid go back to his life in the streets, providing him with everything he needed and making sure he received a proper education, which was something very few people of color (black people, specially) could receive. And yet, Speedwagon and Erina made it happen, very likely using some of Spw’s influences to allow Smokey go to the school (and eventually college too) of his choice without any stigma or trouble at all and covering all expenses for him. -end of edit-))

If this was, idk, the Metal Gear series or some other media that revolves around the topic of politics, then the whole "cRaPiTaLisM!!! >:O" thing would have some weight and be plausible as it directly impacts the main plot of the story. But here?? In Jojo's?? Where the main focus as stated by it's author himself is the strength of the human spirit overcoming obstacles in the face of actual evil??? Try harder.

And, before I get That One Type of fans yelling at me that "people don't just get rich without exploiting people in real life!!"… do you guys realize we're talking about animanga series where vampires, funky stone masks with spooky powers, pillar men, stands, people who can use some ancient sunpowered martial art, plankton that can turn into a sentient person, and so on can happen, right? And yet I don't see anyone whining that "tHaT DoEsN'T hApPeN iRl!!".

And like, if this whole claim stems from disliking Speedwagon, just say you don't like him and move the fuck on. You don't need to try to justify your disliking for him or for ANY other characters, let alone making up wildly out of character bullshit about them to try to prove to yourself and to everyone else why according to you the character is "bad". I promise you it is not a big deal to simply not vibe with a character.

#the lack of media literacy among some jojo fans is overwhelming i swear #its sad to see people constantly and completely misreading and bastardizing speedwagon into something he's not #like all those LAME takes about him being some soft pure uwu innocent scaredy bby #or the 'topkek reddit funni meemz XD!' abt him that some ppl lazily/unironically take as canon #or these silly and also wildly ooc takes on the foundation and him in part 2 #really wish more people took the time to actually see and appreciate his character for what he actually is #sorry this got so long but i wanted to get this out of my chest bc i too saw one of those posts again and was like #BRU not this shit AGAIN #also.if i sound bitter its because i am genuinely sick and tired of the speedwagon slander and people completely misreading him #and turning him into something he is not and often completely ignoring him bc of that fanon image ppl have made of him #along with completely disregarding the fact that he's actually one of the most important characters in all jjba #and instead pretending or wrongly assuming that he was just some 'hehe funni meme uwu guy'#jjba #long post #bit of a vent / rant too #robert e o speedwagon #speedwagon #jojo #character analysis: speedwagon #phantom blood #battle tendency #speedwagon foundation #jojo's bizarre adventure #analysis: speedwagon foundation #character analysis #meta #ok to rb

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