#rhea critical | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

quillfulwriter · 1 year

Text

Look, Rhea is a tragic figure. I feel for her. Her trauma at the hands of Nemesis and the Agarthans is vast, and the slaughter in Zanado is completely unforgivable.

But until she's healed from that trauma and doesn't blame all of humanity for that nightmare, there's absolutely no reason she should be in charge of anything. Much less the very people she resents.

The Empire was created when the Church named Wilhelm its emperor, and the Kingdom is literally called the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus because it was founded by the Church as well. It's only by looking at the Alliance where you can see how the commoners especially feel about the Church's practices when they haven't been indoctrinated.

When the priest from The Eastern Church is trying to stress how they're different from the Central Church, he says:

Their church doesn't have an order of knights.

They don't believe in using force to chastise believers.

A noble house keeps order in their territory, and they have forbidden the use of any soldiers, even for self-defense.

You can reverse engineer these to describe how they see the Central Church in Leicester: Militant, violent towards its followers, and deceitful (claiming self-defense as a shield for its violent ways).

This is correct. The Church has a standing army and a school used to train child soldiers. It punishes criminals with execution more often than not. And it actively warps major events to make people see them in a certain light.

Yes, Rhea chose to keep the peace rather than openly hating humanity. That's not exactly a kindness when she 1) makes sure most people are reliant on the church for basic needs 2) restricts access to education based on who she can control (nobles vs. commoners) 3) bans advances in technology like the printing press so she can more easily prohibit the spread of knowledge and 4) creates clones and experiments on babies.

I understand she is traumatized. I understand she is in pain and trying to protect her people from another slaughter. But the simple fact is she's not even doing that well, because she's refused to heal. Everything she does against the Agarthans is basically whack-a-mole, and she only ever punishes who they manipulated.

Hubert found TWSD in 10 years! She's had centuries! I can't even say he's healed from his trauma to make that happen, but at least he directed it to something practical that got results. So no one would suffer like he had.

But Rhea? She's content to punish and oppress humanity for being manipulated by the Agarthans. Meanwhile, TWSD experiments on children too and the Church does nothing. When Lysithea and Edelgard are the sole survivors of murky circumstances, one would think that the Church would get involved. Even for aid. But no. They had their chance to make this right, and they chose to turn a blind eye.

I cannot rightly believe that she really cares about human beings when she treats the people most loyal to her so horribly. Even Seteth! She's telling Catherine to burn down a city with people inside in the Black Eagles route, she's never once tried to get anyone to teach Cyril to read and write (Seteth was the only one interested in doing that for him), and she hid all of her atrocities from Seteth because she knew that what she was doing was wrong.

Her compassion as the archbishop ultimately comes from a place of indoctrination and control. Understandable though it may be because of what she experienced, it's still wrong. And she shouldn't be in charge of anything because of that.

460 notes · View notes

raxistaicho · 4 months

Text

"You insulted my boss? Die, sinner!"

If anyone tries to tell you the Church of Seiros doesn't execute people for any offense, just remember:

Catherine says she would kill a person just for being mildly disrespectful to Rhea. She's highly respected among the knighthood: they would follow her example.

#fire emblem three houses #edelgard discourse #edelgard positive #church of seiros critical #shamir nevrand #catherine fe3h #rhea critical

44 notes · View notes

carcosa-commune · 7 months

Text

Edelgard vs. Seteth on Surrender

Seteth and Rhea are such self righteous hypocrites at every turn in FE3H, it honestly baffles me how much the fandom takes their word and lets them skate on very sinister actions because Edelgard has more traditional villain signifiers.

The game gives you a direct comparison of Seteth, who is allegedly more reasonable than Rhea, and Edelgard on the treatment of enemies. Seteth outright saying she needs to die for not "bending to the church's will" demonstrates the exact reason Edelgard fought the church.

They claim multiple times to stand for mercy and peace but numerous times in the game the church whether headed by Rhea or Seteth will kill captured enemies without a trial, refuse to allow retreats, do not allow cities' to evacuate, and outright arrest and execute non-combatants.

Some of these Edelgard is also guilty of, of course, but then, she never claimed to be the peaceful and benevolent representative of an all-knowing deity.

#fe3h #fire emblem 3 houses #fe3h spoilers #seteth critical #seteth #edelgard von hresvelg #archbishop rhea #rhea fe3h #rhea critical

26 notes · View notes

sophitia-of-hyrule · 7 months

Text

I really wish Three Houses/Hopes didn't force you to side with Edelgard or Rhea.

Both are terrible people. I was hoping Claude's route would be the neutral one, but nope. In Three Houses he works for Rhea and does nothing to fight the Church despite obviously not liking it. In Three Hopes he sides with a bloodthristy imperialist control freak (that people seem to like for some reason).

I don't want to side with neither of them!! I hate both the Church and the Empire, I want to destroy both of them.

Edit: You guys are awesome! I love reading your thoughts and having a conversation.

#my post #rant #fire emblem #fe #fire emblem three houses #fe3h #fire emblem warriors three hopes #three hopes #edelgard von hresvelg #edelgard salt #edelgard critical #archbishop rhea #rhea critical #rhea salt #claude von riegan #golden wildfire #verdant wind

33 notes · View notes

dragongutsixofficial · 2 years

Text

On the topic of Rhea, Byleth, Crimson Flower and abuse

I see a lot of people saying Crimson Flower is a bad route for Byleth, and I'm always a little confused about it, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter. This post isn't at all to invalidate their opinions or how they view the game- this is just offering my perspective on things. Please forgive any possible mistakes, as English isn't my first language. Also, I will be criticizing Rhea's treatment of Byleth, so I'll tag this appropriately of course, but I'm still warning any of her fans beforehand in case you just wanna skip. ^^

For a little bit of context, when i first played the game, Rhea creeped me out THE MOMENT she looked at Byleth from the balcony in the cutscene when they arrive at Garreg Mach monastery. So, I was already wary of her-I dunno, I just had a feeling she wasn't as honest as she was pretending to be.

And I mean, this isn't completely wrong. She desperately wants to be able to relax and be truthful, sure, but she also has a great deal of responsibility in putting in place and maintaining a really unfair theocracy based entirely on lies, because she wants to protect her family, the last of her kind. While her behavior is, of course, understandable given the horrible trauma she went through, it still doesn't sit right with me, but that's not really my point here. The thing is, she has problems with not being in control at all times because of her story. Her despair even pushes her to try and bring back her dead mother by crafting her a vessel- something she fails at several times, including Sitri.

And, then, there's Byleth. Byleth, who disappears for twenty long years, along with all her hopes, and when they reappear Rhea immediately sees the possibility for her to achieve her goal is not totally lost. She was desperate and now that she's found them, she wants to keep them.

That's why she places so much trust in Byleth from the start, but also why she grows cold every time they step out of line- like when they refuse to give her Miklan's spear. She allows them to live their life, but only so long as they do not disappoint her in any way or deviate from her ideas- because for the longest time, she struggles to see them as their own person and puts unreasonable expectations on them.

And that, sadly, is when that becomes psychological abuse on her part. This is really obvious to me when Byleth's hair and eyes turn green after fusing with Sothis, and she sings to them and puts their head in their lap while they're asleep- it just makes me want to run far away in the opposite direction every time, and her giving them the prophet outfit after that makes me so sorry for Byleth because what she's essentially doing here (albeit maybe unvoluntarily) is chipping away at their developing self and bodily autonomy by turning them into literally what she physically wants to see-and that isn't them. She wants them to become what she wants of them.

And then, in the Sacred Mausoleum, Byleth chooses Edelgard. All hell breaks loose because Rhea's hopes are shattered- and she also realizes her affection for Byleth is (partly) unrequited which, to me at least, makes sense- I don't really see how they could care as much for her as they do for their students when they spent every day with them for a year, and their actions seem to be made more out of love for their close ones than anything else. Byleth breaks out of the mold and confronts her directly. They make the clear cut decision to deviate from the path she had laid out for them. From that moment on, Rhea considers that all forms of violence against them is allowed (which, fair, they just declared war on her lol) including taking their heart out by force, which is physical abuse obviously (then again, violence is to be expected in a war but you get the idea). She now hates what she's created and sees it as her duty to destroy it.

Now. Byleth choosing to walk down Edelgard's path does not equate cutting themselves from their divine part, and I think that is a very important point. I see a lot of people make that criticism, especially since Byleth loses Sothis' powers at the end of CF. But to me, it's a totally different phenomena that occurs.

In every route, post-timeskip Byleth embraces their divine side. They use the Creator's sword and they go back in time as they wish to protect and further their and their lords' vision for the future of Fodlan. Heck, their main class is literally "Prophet". But something strange and, I think, beautiful happens in Crimson Flower that always made me feel disappointed in the other routes' plots: Byleth has a chance to stand up to their abuser and cut ties with them explicitely and directly. To fight back against them with all they've got.

Now, don't get me wrong. Rhea apologizing for her wrongdoings and bad treatment of Byleth is good, sure, but it just… doesn't seem like enough to me. Sure, that's a nice thought… but it's not like anything can be done about it now: they're stuck with body modifications and a position as an Archbishop reforming the system she helped put in place that they never really asked for in the first place. But what makes it ok is that they embrace those fully and voluntarily, and that's beautiful on its own- however, that resolution leaves me a bit disappointed and honestly feeling like they let Rhea walk all over them.

The thing is, when you get out of an abusive and toxic relationship, you are left changed from the experience. You lose a lot of things, but you also get some things. It's like you're left with a random object your abuser gave to you once. You can either keep it and give it a new story of its own, or discard it if keeping it just doesn't feel right. But in the end, it is your responsibility, your thing, and you're not a bad person for not using it. The metaphor is broken, I know, but I hope you get my idea. You're not a bad person for moving on for that thing- You don't resent the thing, you can thank it and appreciate it for what it brought you while you used it, you don't hate it, hell you might have even learnt from it.

In the other routes, Byleth chooses to keep everything and use it equally. In Crimson Flower, Byleth "regaining their humanity" doesn't in any way, shape or form mean they reject all that Sothis brought to them or their enlightenement. It's just them choosing that they'd rather not use that from now on, or not engage with it to the same degree. They might go back to it later, might help rebuild the church, I don't know-just not in the same way. On new terms that make them more at ease with who they became following that route.

They're still the same loving and caring person who would do anything for their students. They still go to the ends of the Earth to give someone a random thing they lost. They still spend hundreds of coins on their loved ones' favorite teas. But… they do not have to forgive Rhea. They do not have to accept everything that happened to them because of her actions, even if some of it was good. They've made their peace with it and they've let it go of their own volition.

They do not become a lesser version of themselves because they chose to deal with the abuse they went through in a different way than in the other routes.

And I think a lot of people underestimate how powerful CF!Byleth's narrative can be.

#fe3h #byleth eisner #byleth discourse #lady rhea #seiros #rhea discourse #rhea critical #tw abuse #tw mentions of abuse #tw physical abuse #tw psychological abuse #crimson flower #this is no hate towards rhea's character you love who you want #byleth #fe16 #archbishop rhea #fe3h spoilers #edelgard von hresvelg

206 notes · View notes

mayhem-ensues · 2 years

Text

The "X character says the Church does this but that can't be true because Rhea personally believes/does Y" argument is bad.

Sorry, I'm doing Church discourse but because of a certain route I'm seeing this argument a lot more now and I have to say that arguing that a lot of what the game says about the Church's negative side are wrong because Rhea and the other recruitable members of the Church of Serios are good people is kind of a poor argument.

You'll see people say for example that the Church can't be isolationist because Rhea has Cyril and Shamir around, or the Church can't be that responsible for the Crest system because Seteth says Crests don't determine a person's worth but I don't think these ideas are really as contradictory as people make them out to be. What these arguments are missing, is that it is entirely possible to be a good person on an individual level whilst still serving a flawed system that causes problems.

That's honestly what I find compelling about Rhea. She was dealt the worst possible hand and is doing the best she can with it, but even though she means well and she tried her best she still ended up causing a lot of issues along the way. People really want to ignore that aspect of her character and pretend that the Church was completely fine and I don't think there's much of an argument to be made that the game was actually trying to portray the Church and Rhea's leadership as an unambiguous force for good.

Like, there is a reason why 99% of the game's endings end with Rhea removed from a position of power, peacefully or otherwise (the only exception being if you marry her in which case Byleth's protagonist powers take charge).

#fire emblem #fire emblem three houses #three hopes #rhea #rhea critical #I guess?#it's more critical of fandom takes than anything but I'll tag it as critical of rhea for safety

35 notes · View notes

floral-alchemist · 1 year

Text

Rhea is like the Don Draper of fascism. “She’s so kind, she takes in people from other cultures” sweetie she’s exploiting you. She takes in lost souls who are oppressed in some way and puts them in disposable roles where they feel valued. She doesn’t get a prize for not letting other people’s bigotry get in the way of who she’s willing to exploit. Call me when she treats people the same regardless of how green their hair and eyes are, then maybe I’ll believe she isn’t a villain

#lady rhea #fe3h #my posts #rhea critical #discourse cw

7 notes · View notes

howmanyfandomsistoomany · 2 years

Text

Tired old Edelgard V Rhea

Edelgard isn’t ‘good’ or ‘bad’ she’s morally ambigious as is Rhea. The problem with that is that the game tries to make one seem bad :/ giving the impression that one of them must be ‘bad’ to the player/fanbase. It’s why whenever the two are brought up can’t go without discourse

I try to be unbias and to see things from every angle I can: spoilers and trigger warning for below the cut

Edelgard: As I mentioned before, I felt like she was meant to be more antagonistic then what we got. Probably for a number of reasons it wasn’t followed up on. Wouldn’t want the only female lord of the game to be straight evil

Her affinity to flames: her secret identity the Flame emperor, her gambit being ‘raging flames’ and of course Gronder time skip where she sets the middle on fire after taking out Bernie and Petra. I lowkey think she was meant to set the final map ablaze too as it would honestly benefit her more as a means to stop reinforcement (I mean it would’ve backfired seeing how they kept sending falcon knights lol)

I find her route lacking (not just length wise either) as I always found the choice to not have her deal with TWSITD an odd one as that’s what I joined her for after my GD playthrough, I knew she had beef with the chruch and the crest system from VW, and was interested on how she’d deal with the lurking evil as it was made clear that they were only using her. But then it’s a footnote at the end- I know it was likely planned that she would deal with them from datamines, but that’s still not in the game proper. Instead what we got was “Conquer this, conquer that after. War is wearing on me, this difficult path I must walk alone” before final dragon boss lady :o

Edelgards story is tragic no doubt about that, but the writters clearly didn’t know how to handle it as the 12 dead siblings came out of nowhere in the first support we get. And TWSITD are made more menacing from spoken word than actions as all they really did (in the story we play) was kidnap Flayn, and remire. I guess nuking a fortress is something, but it was more plot convenience for Hubert to detect them that way (but that doesn’t happen in CF from what I remember) I guess in AM Thales tries to kill Claude, and Cornelia messes up Dimitri something fierce and theres hegemon Edelgard (damn TWSITD have a bigger prescence in AM than CF. VW only beats them in that regard in that Claude faces Nemesis and Thales and is the closest we see one of the lords in taking TWSITD down, damn)

And it’s a shame, because I wanted to like her character, axe wielding badass? Tragic story that she doesn’t let keep her down? Forging ahead to make her dreams a reality with what little time she has left could’ve been amazing

And then her route felt like they were really trying to get you to sympathise with her as she blushes and hides a painting of you. Like no other route in game is as blatantly ‘like me’ than that right? The closest I could think of compared to the two lords is Dimitri, and even that is a stretch as we deal with his suvivors guilt. He doesn’t do something to get the MC to like them like say, plop a wagon of flowers before you using his inhuman strength, he merely learns to accept that he can’t burden things alone etc., Claude doesn’t get focused on in his route much at all, but his supports have him learning to open up and reveals his past but he doesn’t whisk you away on his Wyvern in a grand romantic gesture

I get that Fire emblem is a dating simulation, but I can’t help but feel they try to get you to like her by cramming things like that down your throat, even Byleth as stand in player reflects this as I can recall “cute” being in every option for the painting cutscene. “That was a cute shriek” followed by “Really, very cute...” her shriek is treated as moe moe cute while her deadly fear of rats is ignored as MC notices her painting to which she flusters and states “leave here at once, I’m changing you must not look!” “Forget what you saw that’s an order o////o”

Like nothing wrong with fanservice, just can it not start with a crippling fear to be glossed over ffs, it’s not that hard to fit cute things in and have her character be explored some other time

Rhea is a whole can or worms. She’s as difficult to place as Edelgard for different reasons, as the archbishop she’s seen as ruthless in pre timskip as she kills all those who oppose the church (which is made to be a bad thing but most of those ‘bad’ things were prompted by TWSITD. Lonato and the tragedy were caused from them, the western church rose up under Lonato and by extension TWSITD fault) The crest system is said to be fault of Rhea as well, despite Nemesis and TWSITD using the bones of Nabateans to create the heroes relic and therefor the bloodline to use said crests so again, TWSITD’s fault :/ sensing a pattern here?

Some may argue about the western church, stating that in the three routes it’s stated that the Western church found issue with the main church being centered at Garrag mach, but without TWSITD’s influence probably would’ve been content to leave it be as it needed a nudge to actually go through with it, the Lonato rebellion was the just cause they needed to try grab for power (and they were definitely used by TWSITD because cutscene after every house leader explains the situation we see flamedlegard and Arendel speaking with Arendel stating “I never placed much faith in the swine from the western church)

Without TWSITD, people find no real issue with the church aside from Crest (which wouldn’t be a thing without those who rave in the dark) and you can’t blame Rhea entirely for placing crests above all else, the sacrifice of her breathern was made from it, so why not honor the bloodlines of her kin? it was something that hurt even her as in VW she states that she was never able to forgive those who proudly wielded the relics crafted from the bones of her breathern- it was a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy that made her mad

Mad enough to try get her mother back to fix all that was lost. She did f’d up things, on par with TWSITD to get her mother back. But without the context of having to treat the corpses of nabateans as sacred and holy while despising the very concept and having to keep the history secret from even her most trusted allies?

(Seteth and Flayn lived a long time, but they don’t know the true history, pretty sure they came after the heroes relics were already established and treated as sacred and holy as Rhea stated she was the only one to survive the red canyon and was the last child of the progenitor god)

There is no ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ with them. And I hate that there are side’s to this equation when there really shouldn’t be- Agarthans are the bad guys, plain and simple. People don’t like their inclusion but they are regardless and it baffles me how people forget about them in arguements

Like no offense to you Rhea V Edelgard people, but yall sound mad dumb when you argue because of it

#100% likely to trigger some people #Use of the word TWSITD way too much to get my point across #comes across as rambling #because it is #me trying to get my thoughts out there #despite the negative contents it's not hate if you can believe it #feth spoilers #if you read it mind the tags #if you read. read the whole thing!#I have the hot takes it would seem #I rant about Edelgards route for a bit #But it's only minor gripes I have about the direction of it #fire emblem three houses #try to keep comments from turning into debate please #we can act civil right?#Edelgard critical #edelgard discourse #Rhea discourse #Rhea critical

13 notes · View notes

steamedzing · 2 years

Text

Wow, wrote this one in one day, without an outline! New record! An Edeleth one shot, PLEASE READ THE AUTHOR'S NOTE.

#edelgard von hresvelg #Byleth Eisner #rhea critical #anyone who knows me knows I adore Rhea but being in character is more important to me #fire emblem 3 houses #fe3h #edeleth

3 notes · View notes

askhubertvonvestra · 1 year

Note

I realized asks were back up on the last day, just my luck!

Anyways, have you heard the song “she doesn’t sleep” by anthony amorim? When listening to it, i find it reminds me of rheas corrupted nature, and i wanted to hear your thoughts on it!

It certainly does capture her short-sighted cruelty quite well. Rather than appreciate what the present and future may hold, should she allow humanity to improve, the corrupt figurehead of the Church is content to chase nostalgia at the expense of her so-called flock. Her obsession with times past have robbed us of so much, and I shall proudly see to it that her future is stolen from her as recompense.

Your clarity in recognizing that she derives joy from suffering is much appreciated, if I may be honest. So few have the capacity to realize her devotion to harming the weak for her own ends. It is made all the worse for how she keeps humanity weak, limiting their innovation, denying accessible and uncensored education, and increasing their dependence on the Church for survival.

Under Her Majesty's leadership, the people will discover their true strengths and merits. Blind obedience is no requirement for a respectable government.

...This song does prompt something of a concern for her allies, however. She may very well turn on those who regard her as a friend. Perhaps I ought to factor that into future strategies. I do not need to respect Cyril and Catherine's ignorant fealty to provide them safe haven should their Lady turn on them.

They may yet wake from the nightmare of her design.

#tumblr just notified me about this a month later oops #hubert von vestra #he-screm #mentioned rhea #ask hubert #ask hubert von vestra #rhea critical #rhea discourse #mentioned cyril #mentioned catherine #long post #long text

1 note · View note

quillfulwriter · 1 year

Text

Love that this game, for all its flaws, brings up important points like this.

The Empire is using brute, indomitable force to create reform. The Kingdom is avoiding a very necessary confrontation about how the Church has exploited their nation.

Both choices can lead to results.

But they have different costs. War on the scale that Edelgard is waging destroys the land in part, leaves people in mourning, and generally creates tension in the aftermath. The reform will be swift and broad, however, changing so many lives for the better.

Those whose lives were changed for the worse will have formerly been the most affluent and wealthiest members of society. They're used to getting their way and aren't afraid to be underhanded. Who's to say they won't try to keep fighting this societal growth for generations to come?

Meanwhile, the Kingdom is trying to cooperate with the presence of an organized religion that is deeply disrespectful and entitled. Tell me that just anyone could take refuge in Faerghus and try to command the Kingdom's military forces when the King himself barely got a sentence in:

[Read the whole spiel around this and grey morality here]

By not making waves, they're more likely to make lasting reform. It happens gradually, though, and more people suffer from oppression and power imbalance while they take their time working around a religious tyrant.

The point is that they're both bad. They both leave innocent people to suffer in perfectly preventable situations. What we all need to take away from FE3H and FEW3H is that there is not a perfect answer. There is no ideal outcome. Everyone at the head of each route is doing what they think is right with the information they have.

...That said, I am a sucker for a Golden Route because fiction is made for daydreams, lol.

39 notes · View notes

raxistaicho · 2 months

Text

Merely the head of religion

Please understand, Rhea's only the head of the church that gives the Crown of Faerghus its power T_T

Also, "being racist". Committing a genocide is a step above and beyond being racist.

#fire emblem three houses #edelgard discourse #edelgard positive #rhea critical #rhea discourse

30 notes · View notes

carcosa-commune · 6 months

Text

im having uncontroversial opinions lately

#edelgard von hresvelg #dimitri critical #rhea fe3h #seteth #fe3h #fire emblem 3 houses #edelgard did nothing wrong

694 notes · View notes

bighairybuffmen69 · 1 year

Text

RS Went Out of Her Way to Give Hades an Oedipus Complex.

Something struck me as odd when I saw images of LO’s pilot.

This was Rhea’s original design; she had galaxy skin like Kronos.

When Lore Olympus became a WEBTOON original, her design changed, which I honestly consider a good thing. Rhea was always associated with nature as opposed to space. So, did RS give her a more rustic design? Did she get her signature turret crown, or maybe a lion motif?

Nope.

Rhea, (who is described as an EARTH titaness within Lore Olympus itself) was redesigned…to be a pink Persephone clone.

And this isn’t a case where you can argue “oh, well everyone is a Persephone clone cuz same face syndrome, it doesn’t mean anything in-universe!!,” because in the comic, Persephone was established to be a canonical Rhea lookalike when Helios mistook a description of Persephone for a description of Rhea.

They have fundamentally identical designs, and both RS and the narrative know it.

On top of this, Hades describes both Rhea & Persephone to be very kind (and otherwise just similar personality-wise). So, um…Hades basically married a fun-sized version of his long-lost mom.

Which makes this line all the more disturbing.

Hades is interested in Persephone being titan-sized, and I feel like it isn’t a stretch to say this is a sexual thing. The fandom treats it as a haha funny joke, like “aw Hades has a giantess fetish lol 🤪” but I feel like everyone’s ignoring the fact that giant Persephone would look exactly like a pale Rhea clone. It’s not rocket science; large Persephone is basically just Rhea.

And Hades wants to see this….for fetish reasons?

RS knows what she’s doing. She deliberately redesigned Rhea to be pink (when she is canonically an EARTH titaness, and would’ve benefited far more from being a shade of green or brown). She went out of her way to create both physical and personality parallels to Persephone and Rhea, even having a character confuse a description of Persephone for Rhea. She threw in implications that Hades has a giantess fetish, meaning he’d be sexually attracted to Persephone when she’d look exactly like his mom. She made all these story decisions…to give Hades an Oedipus complex. There’s no classy way to put it; RS made Hades fall in love with a clone of his dead fucking mom.

You can’t even argue “oh, well, it’s Greek mythology!” because, correct me if I’m wrong, but Hades wanting to fuck his mom was nowhere in the original myths. Plus, RS has taken measures to remove incest from her story. Persephone is not related to Rhea in Lore Olympus, there is no reason she should look this much like her. This serves no narrative purpose, RS did it for shits and giggles, and it only makes Hades look like 10x more of a creep.

I’ll end this post with a little spot-the-difference between Rhea & Perse. To make matters worse, this is arguably the most Rhea-like Persephone has looked…and it was in Hades’ dream. So, uh, do with that as you will.

#anti lore olympus #anti lo #lo critical #lore olympus criticism #lore olympus critical #lore olympus discussion #lore olympus hades #lore olympus persephone #lore olympus rhea #this was a bitch to format

662 notes · View notes

dragongutsixofficial · 2 years

Text

A modest comparison between Byleth Eisner and Adrien Agreste

While thinking about two of my currrent brainrots, Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Miraculous Ladybug, it has occured to me that two of my favorite characters, who seem vastly different at first glance, actually share a lot of characteristics: Byleth Eisner and Adrien Agreste. These similarities stretch from their circumstances to what the vast variety of their interpersonal relationships brings them, including their relationships with Rhea and Gabriel respectively. So, I decided I’d compile them here !

Before I start, I'd like to apologize in advance for any mistake, as English is not my first language; also, I will be criticizing Rhea's behavior towards Byleth so I will be tagging this appropriately (not to hate on Rhea !!! she's a really interesting character, keep stanning the cool dragon lady 🐉 these are just my own personal thoughts!). Alrighty, let's go:

Let's start with the obvious here, and with one of the most popular fan theories in the Miraculous fandom: Byleth and Adrien are both made, by Rhea or Gabriel respectively. Sitri was the last of a long list of artificially crafted beings designed to be a vessel for Sothis, powered by her crest stone which Byleth inherited at birth in order to survive. Meanwhile, Adrien is most likely a sentimonster - and, even if that turned out not to be the case, he is still metaphorically "molded" by his father's expectations. By definition, they are supposed to fulfill a specific goal decided upon by their creator: Adrien has "always wanted to be what [his] parents wanted [him] to be", the model child and straight A student that they could be proud of, while Byleth is supposed to serve as a physical vessel for someone else: as such, their personality matters very little to the people in charge, as long as they are obedient.

Both Rhea and Gabriel have unwillingly and undirectly led to the deaths of Byleth's and Adrien's moms: Rhea by using her mother's crest stone as a heart for Sitri (and thus being forced to retrieve it to save baby Byleth), and Gabriel by gifting Emilie the Peacock Miraculous, which, once broken, caused Emilie's health to decline and ultimately Nathalie to become sick after using it as well. Not to mention they both keep said moms' corpses in their basement because they bring them comfort and they’re unwilling to part from them. XD

Gabriel and Rhea are also motivated by the idea of bringing one of their loved ones back from the dead: in Gabriel’s case, that’s his wife, and in Rhea’s it’s her mother. As a result, they are more than ready to do bad stuff to achieve their goal. But, more alarmingly, they become willing to manipulate and mistreat their creations, whose purpose, as previously stated, is to be obedient, in the process.

Thus, they become the abusers in their own relationships, and exhibit numerous instances of psychological abuse towards Byleth and Adrien. On that note, it is particularly interesting to see just how similar to parental abuse Rhea’s behavior is: this makes all the more sense when you realize the metaphor is literally there - she is the one who gave life to Byleth, not Sitri. Byleth owes Rhea the life she consented to give them, thus she believes she has a right over their body - it's very similar to the "I gave birth to you" attitude. That is something that is all the more evident when you compare it to Gabriel’s blatant mistreatment of his son. Such occasions include:

-> The loss of control over their appearance that Byleth and Adrien experience. Byleth being gifted the Prophet outfit by Rhea after their hair turns green is basically her transforming them into what she physically wants to see, and that's not Byleth. That’s a vessel for Sothis, Rhea's dead mom. The second their appearance changes, she thinks her dreams are close to being fulfilled and grows a lot more protective / controlling of Byleth; she longs for her mother, and she wants to cling to them. As Rhea herself puts it when she sings to Byleth after they fainted: “I have heard rumors of what happened to you. Your appearance… you have received power from the Goddess. From the moment you took hold of the sword of the Creator… I prayed that one day the radiant power of Sothis, which bathes Fodlan in its celestial light, might reside within you. But you are so much more than the light. You are my…”. On the same matter, it’s only after they fuse with Sothis that Rhea has prolonged physical contact with them for the first time: and while it is done out of affection, it's also without their explicit consent since she does it when they're unconscious, which puts you on edge when you realize the violation of boundaries and unwanted physical contact is a big sign of helicopter parents who tend to see their children's bodies as their property. This is even more unnerving if, like a lot of people, you read Byleth as neurodivergent - something that Adrien probably is himself, albeit unknowingly. And, sadly, at that point in-game, Rhea struggles to see Byleth as their own person. The same thing is going on between Adrien and his father. His whole modeling career illustrates this pretty blatantly, as he expresses the wish to quit several times throughout the show but remains unable to tell his father or even reach out to his best friend for support until Season 5 - something that Nino stresses out when he refuses to help Marinette stop Adrien from going on a worldwide tour in "Risk". In “Multiplication”, Gabriel goes as far as to digitalize his own son to turn him into a marketable good, which probably doubles as an evil control device.

-> More generally, Adrien and Byleth are being denied control over their own lives. Not being given a choice by the authority figures in charge about what they can or cannot do, even if it ends up being good for them - let's not forget that although Byleth becoming a professor was the starting point of their character development, this decision was made by the archbishop - can be incredibly damaging to someone in the process of developing their own personality. The overwhelming control being exerted over their lives leaves them stifled and unable to express themselves fully. Byleth's lack of emotions as a result of their artificial nature and Gabriel subjecting his child to the pressure of always appearing as perfect and unbothered serve similar narrative functions in that regard.

This is the reason why Adrien goes so overboard as Cat Noir: that incredible rush of freedom also leads to him exhibiting irresponsible behavior and being way too pushy with Ladybug. This hurts all the more in “Kuro Neko”, when he and Plagg are brainstorming ideas for a new feline alter ego together: "You know how to be serious with your father and Nathalie - just be like that !". Our favorite golden boy can't express his personality outside of the limits that have been set for him, and neither can Byleth : any instance of them disagreeing with Rhea angers her, like when they refuse to give her the Lance of Ruin back.

-> Choosing to rebel against their abuser puts them both in serious danger. In Byleth's case, they only do so overtly and explicitly by choosing to side with Edelgard at the Sacred Mausoleum. From that point on, Rhea is more than ready to kill them in order to get back the occasion that she thinks they stole from her. As she states herself, they are "just another failure" and they cease to have any individual value to her eyes. Since they can't be the go-with-the-flow vessel she intended, since she can't use them as a way to achieve her goals anymore, they need to go. Therefore, she justifies any future instance of physical abuse towards them on the grounds that they "deserve" it.

Gabriel is no better : he akumatizes his own son twice upon discovering his secret identity just so he can get his Miraculous. In the "Chat Blanc" episode, he even hits him in combat on two occasions, after discovering his true identity. Hell, his actions even lead Adrien to cataclysm himself.

All in all, this list of abusive patterns place both kids as victims of some serious parental abuse that hinders their healthy development - and them taking a stand against their abusers is a major point in their respective narratives. They can only grow when they're given the opportunity to get away from their abusers : Adrien by going to school and becoming Cat Noir, Byleth by "growing beyond the abuse" and embracing their divine part in AM, SS and VW or totally cutting ties with Rhea and rejecting what she's inflicted upon them in CF.

Let's get back to the fluff now by talking a little about our babies' character development - and more precisely, what motivates said character development. Something that is, I believe, crucial to understand is that Adrien and Byleth are, at their core, defined by their ability to love. This manifests in different ways:

-> Their personality first blooms when they're given the opportunity to socialize with other people. Having grown up a sheltered kid and homeschooled for thirteen (13) years, Adrien is clueless as to how to react to most social situations, and ignores a lot of things about the world around him. This is not unlike Byleth, whose life as a mercenary on the roads has prohibited from forming any lasting bound with other people or even truly get a grasp of the world they live in - heck, they don't even know about the biggest institution and overseer of international relationships in Fodlan, the Church of Seiros, until the start of the game.

An interesting difference between the two of them on that point though, lies in the fact that while Byleth just went along with the flow when they accompanied Jeralt to the monastery and were later tasked with taking care of a class, Adrien had to beg his father to let him go to public school: this can be explained by Byleth’s lack of emotional drive or life goals at the beginning of White Clouds, and by the fact that they do not seek to know themselves as actively as Adrien, who longs to be part of the world and craves human interaction from people other than his father’s staff from the very beginning of season 1. He, just as much as Byleth, needs people in his own general age range to talk to. Both desperately need to develop strong interpersonal friendships to bring out the best in themselves.

Funnily enough, it’s their abuser that grants them the permission to do so, though both use it as a way to exert control over their victim to some extent - Rhea wants to keep Byleth under her watch, while Gabriel threatens to take Adrien’s only gateway to a semblance of normality away anytime he feels his control slip, and retains control over who his son can see and under what circumstances throughout the show. An instance of this is when he forbids Adrien from going to his friends’ concert, or when Nino literally gets akumatized because he is so mad his best friend isn’t allowed an appropriate birthday celebration. Though he knows it’s his duty to save him, Adrien himself acknowledges he deserves that much and gives in to the temptation to enjoy himself, if only for a short while. In any case, being in contact with their respective classes, either as a student or as a professor, brings out the best in them and shapes the way they come to view the world. This also helps them realize that they deserve good things for themselves, and to be treated with respect.

-> But beyond helping them to get better with people in general, their relationships with others also help them take control of their own lives and grow into responsible individuals. Neither of them have ever been entrusted with any responsibility until being tasked with protecting other people, something that they both love doing and excel at; as @kanohivolitakk brought up in the comments of one of my posts once, one of Byleth’s likes is literally that they love seeing other people smile. This is reiterated during Shez’s expeditions with them in Three Hopes, when they acknowledge that they often find themselves helping people naturally. Byleth being responsible for their students allows them to reveal their full potential and become reliable not only as a blade, but also as a mentor and, later on, as a friend (and ultimately as a romantic partner if they choose to marry someone).

In the Black Eagles route, after they fuse with Sothis, Edelgard asks them what they intend to do with their newfound powers: their possible answers (For the people of the world / For my students / For myself) are a testimony to their selflessness as well as their growth. They live for the people they love and want to protect, but also grow thanks to them. This is the reason they do whatever it takes to protect the people they have come to care for in every route, even picking up the mantle of the Archbishop in three of the routes in the process. And even though I struggle with not feeling like they’re eventually caving into what Rhea wanted of them in the first place, I understand that it’s not supposed to feel that way, and that they choose to do so of their own volition, in order to help. Same goes with Cat Noir, whose role has literally been to help his fellow citizens from day one even if that means putting himself in danger, something that he does on plenty of occasions. A big facet of his job consists in protecting his partner Ladybug, and being a reliable partner no matter the circumstances, something that he struggles with at times: his unreciprocated feelings getting in the way of efficient teamwork as well as hindering the duo’s communication paired with his occasional impulsiveness sometimes prove to be more detrimental to saving the day than anything else.

Ladybug’s lack of trust in him, which is a touchy subject in Season 4 in particular, is a testament to that, and to the fact that he needs to work on himself to be the hero Paris needs and the loyal partner whose support Ladybug can count on, even if that means putting his own feelings aside. Something that he always ends up doing, even if it takes some time; after all, very early in the show, Adrien is shown putting his fun aside to save everyone from Nino’s akumatized form, the Bubbler, when he realizes the devastating consequences him having fun on his birthday brings those who are threatened into participating. He is shown fully embracing that role in the finale of Season 4, as he becomes the “loyal partner” his Lady needs in her most desperate moment.

-> Last but not least, and this works both platonically and romantically (though this will especially speak to my Edeleth shippers out there) our lovable protagonists are transformed by their love for a certain lady in red, who helps them understand that they matter just the way they are: that people care about them, that they need them in their lives to make the hard decisions they need to and take a step towards a better future in the face of adversity.

Interestingly enough, said ladies in red are often criticized for not valuing their partner enough or gaslighting them. For instance, Edelgard is criticized on the grounds of taking all of the credit of Byleth’s accomplishments, especially their military ones; she's also reproached with manipulating them into helping her achieve her geopolitical goals. Similarly, Ladybug is blamed for being too controlling and not trusting her partner enough, her critics often forgetting that she is a teenager who, as all teenagers do, make mistakes and just try to make it to the next day unscathed. While both of these leader figures are undoubtedly flawed, these criticisms often overlook their respective difficult situations.

Edelgard, who has serious problems trusting others and spent one full year lying to her class, still struggles with the feeling that she can't count on her comrades five years after they first decided to fight by her side - one of the reasons why she lies to them about what happened to Arianrhod. However, throughout the game, she does open herself to them and grows more vulnerable around them, and especially around Byleth. Though she is the Emperor, she deeply wants them to be on equal footing with her, as she states in her S-support conversation with them: “To think that I may now call you my partner and equal…”. At the end of Crimson Flower, she gets herself a supportive partner who will help bear her burdens just as much as she theirs, someone she can be totally honest with ; someone with whom she can take off her mask at long last. Edelgard and Byleth become the light that Fodlan needs - together.

Ladybug doesn't have it any easier, in all honesty; just as Edelgard, she's wary about taking any risk, because she knows she's got everything to lose ; not only the Miraculous, but also Cat Noir. We have to remember that Ladybug has been utterly traumatized by the events of “Chat Blanc”, and doesn't even know why he was akumatized in the first place - all she knows is that if she relies on him too much, he might break. This, unfortunately, turns out to be counterproductive, since she grows ever more secretive and distant from her dejected partner. However, just like Byleth, Cat Noir ends up sticking with his partners in spite of his doubts because he ultimately trusts her and the reasoning behind her actions - something that is best exemplified in "Strikeback". At first unwilling to accept their respective partners’ aid, Ladybug and Edelgard have to struggle with the guilt that doing so entails - was Byleth, who received the powers of the Goddess, supposed to follow the Flame Emperor on her bloody path? Does our favorite superheroine deserve a second chance after her not trusting Cat Noir facilitated her defeat ? But in the end, both have to come to the same conclusion : their partner chose to give them a chance because they love them, and because they both make each other better people.

So, yeah ! Looking back at all these different elements, it should come as no surprise that I love these two precious and complex characters, who are defined not only by their struggle to win their own agency, but also by their love for others and for themselves. In fact, writing this comparison might have even furthered my interest and affection for both Byleth and Adrien ! I hope it did for you too - or at the very least, that it was an interesting read. Please feel free to add to this, if you think of anything I might have missed !!!

33 notes · View notes