#some of these are answering asks people sent or extrapolating on other posts | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

maverick-werewolf · 3 years

Text

Werewolf Worldbuilding Sheet

Instead of a werewolf fact this week, have something I’ve been working on for a little while now. I was sent an ask about a good werewolf worldbuilding sheet. Me being me, willing to settle for no one else’s werewolf things, I thought - hey, why not make my own? I love worldbuilding werewolves and I’ve tried to make sure to think of literally everything to do with mine, so I thought I’d put together a relatively simple werewolf worldbuilding sheet! (and maybe a vampire one in the future!)

I will first extrapolate on each section of the sheet and provide some thoughts/examples (and relevant werewolf facts to turn to for ideas!)...

What is lycanthropy and where did it come from? This is always something to consider. Note, of course, that where it came from may be a mystery, and that’s fine too. You don’t have to always do the “it came from a demon or a witch” thing like literally everyone else in the universe. Folklore provides us with some interesting material to help think on this - here are some helpful werewolf facts: What IS a werewolf? --- Curse, not Disease --- On Werewolf Biology --- When Werewolves Went Feral Part 1 --- and Part 2

How does one become a werewolf? Pretty simple question, but always complicated to answer! Well, potentially. How does someone become a werewolf in your story? Definitely a helpful werewolf fact for ideas - but also refer to several from the first question: Becoming a werewolf

Are there different terms for werewolves? Something else to think about! Are your werewolves even called “werewolves?” They don’t have to be, of course, but you know, it’d be cooler if they were. And most monsters, especially in older times, didn’t have just one name - not to mention other languages in your universe that would have their own terms for a werewolf. Useful werewolf fact: Etymology

Are there different kinds of werewolves or similar shapeshifters? This is kind of a weird one, I know, but hey, it’s something to think about. I for one don��t go into the “werewolves are just one kind of shapeshifter that happen to all be pretty much exactly like werewolves but different animals” (looking at you, D&D and WoD), but lots of people do, so that’s up to you! Helpful/potentially relevant werewolf facts: What is and isn’t a werewolf --- Where were the werewolf hybrids --- On shaping other shapeshifters --- Berserkers --- Vrykolakas --- Loup garous and rougarous --- Magic skins

What do the werewolves look like? A big one to decide! I’ll try not to influence you, but, you know, werewolves are called werewolves, just try to remember that. Useful werewolf facts: Physical Appearance --- Werewolves have tails --- Wolves are big, werewolves are bigger --- Hands and claws --- Fur colors --- Eye colors --- How to identify a werewolf --- Werewolves walking upright

Do werewolves have packs? Werewolf packs saturate our current generation of pop culture, but they are indeed very popular. Consider, however, that werewolves’ characterization is severely degraded if they are basically unable to exist without a pack and/or devote themselves entirely to seeking a pack instead of being a person at all; not that werewolf packs are bad, but something to consider. Useful werewolf facts: Is alpha, beta, omega really a thing? --- Communities and families --- Inheritance/offspring

What are a werewolf's powers and abilities? There might be more than you think! Have fun with it! Just remember, werewolves should totally be OP. Like, way OP. No, I’m not kidding. They’re awesome. We love werewolves on this blog, remember? Useful werewolf facts: Powers and abilities --- Eye/vision powers --- Spirit projection --- Werewolves can outrun you --- Werewolves can swim --- Werewolves can climb trees --- Gluttony/swallowing things whole

Do they have any weaknesses, and why? Another big question! Do your werewolves have weaknesses? Or do they not? If so, of course - what are they? Useful werewolf facts: How to kill a werewolf (weaknesses) --- Silver --- Belladonna and wolfsbane --- Werewolf and monster hunters

What triggers a werewolf transformation? The BIG one! Well, one of the big ones. Super, super important. Is it more than one thing? What are they? Details! Useful werewolf facts: Transformation triggers --- Transformation sequence --- On werewolf biology (again) --- Full moon --- The Arcadians

What triggers a werewolf to return to human form again? What it says on the tin. This can vary a lot! It’ll definitely be influenced by the first question, but it’s something to maybe think about separately.

Can a werewolf be “cured”? This can depend, of course, on what exactly your werewolves are/how they work, but it’s always useful to know the answer as to whether or not there’s any hope of someone being totally human again. Plese see previous questions for other useful facts, like if your lycanthropy is a curse in the first place! Useful werewolf facts: How to cure lycanthropy

Can the werewolves control themselves, or ever learn how to do so? Are your werewolves even uncontrollable in the first place? Is there any hope for a sad werewolf to ever gain control, if so? Useful werewolf facts: When Werewolves Went Feral Part 1 --- and Part 2 --- Personality changes

How do werewolves act in their werewolf form and why? Are your werewolves full of rage? Are the hungry? Do they eat people? Why? Would they hunt specifically people, or what? Useful werewolf facts: When Werewolves Went Feral Part 1 --- and Part 2 (yes, again) --- Werewolves vs Evil --- Personality changes (again) --- Werewolves don’t bark --- Werewolf diet --- Werewolves vs vampires (my most controversial post lol) --- Werewolves as noble knights --- The trial of Peter Stubbe -- Werewolf Intelligence (and speech)

Are werewolves immortal, or anything approaching it? How about that immortality? Useful werewolf facts: Immortality and aging --- Powers and abilities (again)

How are werewolves treated/seen by others? Are they outcasts? Kill on sight? Hunted from the very moment someone finds out what they are? Do they have to hide the fact that they are a werewolf? How does it work? Useful werewolf facts: Hiding being a werewolf

Do werewolves remember anything about their transformations? What it says on the tin! Do they, or do they not? Is it hazy? Do they have no memory of it at all and might not even realize they are a werewolf? Or do they remember everything? Useful werewolf facts: Memory

------------

Please note of course that my werewolf facts are here to give you ideas, not be instructions. Werewolves of your creation are of your creation, and thus you should create them the way you want and like them! I don’t want to dictate to anyone the way werewolves “should” be, although I absolutely have my personal preferences. The werewolf facts are meant to give you ideas and, hopefully, be a good jumping off point.

Folklore isn’t always the coolest portrayal of werewolves - it’s just better, IMO, to use folklore as a basis or at least as an idea basin instead of ignoring it entirely. The folklore for werewolves is awesome, just like all folklore. But pop culture has given us some cool things, too.

And remember, if you have any other questions or want to throw ideas at me or ask me my thoughts on anything, I am more than happy to talk werewolf ideas with you! Please, share your werewolves with me! I promise they don’t have to be ultra-folkloric for me to love them (mine actually aren’t, in many respects), since I’m a big fan of several very Hollywood things as well. I’m also always here to give writing advice.

Enjoy!

More on werewolf tropes

Reframing “werewolf angst” into “werewolf anxiety” (very important!)

On pop culture werewolf designs and Underworld’s influence

Werewolves are not British

The Beast of Gevaudan and what isn’t a werewolf legend

Wargs/worgs

------------

BLANK VERSION OF THE SHEET:

What is lycanthropy and where did it come from?

How does one become a werewolf?

Are there different terms for werewolves?

Are there different kinds of werewolves or similar shapeshifters?

What do the werewolves look like?

Do werewolves have packs?

What are a werewolf's powers and abilities?

Do they have any weaknesses, and why?

What triggers a werewolf transformation?

What triggers a werewolf to return to human form again?

Can a werewolf be “cured”?

Can the werewolves control themselves, or ever learn how to do so?

How do werewolves act in their werewolf form and why?

Are werewolves immortal, or anything approaching it?

How are werewolves treated/seen by others?

Do werewolves remember anything about their transformations?

-------------

And of course, don’t forget to check the werewolf fact masterlist for even more info on folkloric werewolves (and my sundry opinions on pop culture werewolves)!

Be sure to give me a follow for lots more werewolf facts, vampire facts, answering all your asks, and a whole lot more folklore and writing, as well as writing advice!

(If you like my werewolf blog, be sure to check out my other stuff! And please consider supporting me on Patreon - every little bit helps keep this blog running!

Patreon --- Wulfgard --- Werewolf Fact Masterlist --- Twitter)

#writing advice #worldbuilding #werewolf #werewolves #lycanthropy #lycanthropes #fantasy #urban fantasy #supernatural #paranormal #werewolf wednesday #werewolfwednesday #worldbuilding tools #worldbuilding sheet

434 notes · View notes

vaguely-concerned · 2 years

Text

So I got an anon ask a long time ago that, from sketchy memory, said something like: Who do you think had the better/worse home life growing up, Graves or TF? And I’m super sorry because it’s gotten lost somewhere on this blue hellsite and I can’t find it again anywhere I’ve looked, but I thought I’d try to write out a post as a response anyway! I’m sorry it’s so late, it took me a while to know how to answer aaand then I had to rifle through my drafts fifteen times to see if I could find it. Again, oops and sorry lol. (In general, if you’ve sent me an ask and I haven’t answered… please know that’s on my little ping pong ball of a brain bouncing erratically around in here, and absolutely not on you.) Also I’m going to mention some stuff around physical and emotional child abuse and trauma in this – nothing graphic or in depth, but just in case anyone needs the heads-up!

Okay, so my personal headcanon/what I’ve built for my fics* is that they’re both only children of single mothers. Graves has no idea who his dad is and Mama Graves possibly has only the haziest approximate idea too haha (none of the candidates would be promising long-term prospects in any case), but in Bilgewater logic he basically grew up with the idea that in having one living parent with any kind of investment in his survival (and occasionally even happiness, an embarrassment of riches here) he might as well have hit the jackpot. TF’s dad died when TF was very little and he doesn’t remember him, and that loss is partially why his mother wasn’t able to do a very good job at the parenting thing. (She probably would have done better with a dependable partner and less depression weighing her down, but there’s some underlying emotional immaturity there too that was the real problem.) Between the two of them he probably did have the safer environment around him growing up, though; child rearing among his people was a good deal more communal and tight-knit than in the gutters of Rat Town, he was raised along with a bunch of cousins/other kids. (He was seen by most of the adults as kind of a weird annoyingly precocious kid – there is a certain kind of adult who’ll get very uncomfortable around an uncannily observant and inquisitive child – and there were Family Politics at play there as well that meant he had a subtle sense of being on the outside already there.)

Graves’ mom was physically and verbally abusive (and drank too much periodically, mostly when he got a bit older) but also had some genuine care for his wellbeing and safety, especially physically, while TF grew up with a largely emotionally unavailable and neglectful mom who collapsed into helplessness and rejection whenever he needed things from her, and then was completely abandoned by her and everyone else in the family in the end. He did experience some much better and more loving connection with his (paternal) grandfather, but his grandfather also struggled with an ever worsening serious health condition that was slowly growing terminal as TF turned eleven or so – by the time he got exiled at thirteen his grandpa was barely awake for hours at a time some days and couldn’t really do anything to help him :(

And now let me try to show my work a bit around what parts of their lore I’ve extrapolated/built this from and elaborate on the long-term effects on their ways of dealing with relationships!

So to Graves being the recipient of indifference feels much worse than anger or conflict in relationships, because his primary attachment relationship taught him that interest, even in the form of anger, was a sign that he mattered to his mother; her anger (often born of fear and boy does Bilgewater offer a lot of things to fear) and insistence on being involved in his life (so he wouldn’t y’know end up being eaten by a warf rat or something while being a dumbass kid lol) were proof that she loved him and that he had some sort of importance in the dangerous violent world he was born into.

He takes TF running away from him as a sign of indifference and rejection/abandonment, which is why it just keeps escalating the rage and hurt in him during the whole chase scene in Burning Tides; to him it reads as more and more proof that TF doesn’t care about him and never really did, that he’s blowing off all the pain Graves has been through the last ten years and that he’s desperate to convey to someone (because I think that’s also part of why he feels he needs TF to listen to him before he actually does anything violent to him; he needs someone to hear and witness how much it hurts, even if that’s not the vocabulary he knows how to use. And he needs TF to listen both because he thinks he’s the one to blame but also because he’s the person he thinks would understand or that it would matter to – aside from his mother he’s the only other person he has actually had such a close relationship with. Some parts of him still know TF as ‘love, safety, home’ even while other parts are on the war path with lethal intent, and the raging parts carrying the abandonment pain go ‘well, then I’ll fucking make him feel this as much as I do one way or the other’ (sinister intent). Even that is still a bid for connection on some level.)

I really think part of Graves’ way of feeling and showing love is grounded in mutuality that way. Even in that twisted form, what he wants from TF is mutual connection. (Which is why TF disappearing into his Cool Magic Gambler Persona TM bothers him so much, because it leaves him ‘alone’ and without that back and forth flow of call and response of connection between them (look at their moment in the crate in the animated short for an example of what I mean – the way their bodies and gazes do an effortless sort of a back and forth sway of expression: TF leans in with a conspiratorial air and stays there as Graves takes in his meaning, Graves leans in eagerly as he gets it and TF smugly settles back against him, and you can see how much they BOTH enjoy it. TF could just have used the card immediately, but his first thought is to share their imminent triumph with Graves and make a moment of it, have a connection. I don’t know how clearly I’ve managed to express it with that, I just go on Vibes and that’s why I write fiction lol. See also the immediate easy back and forth they fall into at the end of Burning Tides, where so much can be left unspoken because they know each other that well, and how it makes Graves GRIN when only like fifteen minutes earlier he notes it’s been a long, long time since he laughed. Which then gets the paranoia briefly kicking in for a moment because that’s Dangerous Territory to his trauma brain, but I really do think that their safe established connection is part of how Graves has honestly been getting back on his feet with surprising speed and ease considering Everything.)

There’s an ability to fully commit to an idea of us without having the I become lost there that I think must have started very early. As lacking and harmful as she was in other ways Mama Graves did provide that sense of unflinching ‘me and you against the world you little shit’ psychological security.

(Graves is also very quick to hear criticism where it isn’t even intended because oh boy Mama Graves always had something to complain about, TF has had to do a lot of baffled ‘…Malcolm, that is NOT what I said where the fuck did that come from’ unpacking with him over the years whenever that kicks in for him)

Meanwhile TF had to learn to fashion affection from indifference growing up: he basically learned from his mom that the best thing he could do for her was to need nothing from her, to make her life as easy as possible however he could and intuiting the things that would accomplish that without troubling her, and if he did it right she would give him some superficial attention and affection, and that’s what love is. Writing it out this is… very very sad. She would also sometimes have unpredictable anger episodes where she’d snap at him instead (often rooted in repressed shame because something in her recognized this is not how it’s supposed to go) – they were rarer but did some real damage whenever they happened. This is where his ability to read people probably started getting honed to its razor sharpness.

As you see there’s a brutal lack of mutuality in this dynamic, and a reversal of how the parent/child dynamic should actually work, the kid desperately having to do their damnedest to regulate the parent to get any needs met at all and not really managing it, because that is the DEFINITION of getting set up to lose, it just can’t work. (And I do think that mutuality Graves freely offers in close relationships is a huuuuuge part of why TF is so attracted to him both initially and enduringly, it fulfills basic needs he didn’t have met as a kid. His mom set him up to give and give and get very little back, but Graves has that basic sense of fairness that he doesn’t want TF to give him something without him getting something of equal value back in return, it just seems against some sort of code haha. There’s no honor among thieves but there is between partners, sort of thing.)

It’s also why he defaults to Flight in very tense situations – when the angry dudes came for him in the incident that lead to his exile he had no one safe to go to for help, and he was one small slip of a kid against a bunch of drunk angry adults; there really wasn’t a lot else his brain knew how to do than get away, and then he’s abandoned for it on top of it all afterwards. Trauma sandwich with shame for mustard holy shit.

I am basing this heavily on the underlying theme in Burning Tides that TF thinks that by running away he’s helping Graves by making sure he won’t put them in a position that’ll invariably seriously hurt (or worse) one or both of them while he’s so angry that he’s not in his right mind, and he’s SO frustrated that Graves doesn’t see that – “Will you ever learn? Every time I try to help you – ”. No, actually, the feeling I get is more that he thinks Graves does understand it – that it’s such a self-evident part of how relationships work that he MUST know it – he’s just ignoring and devaluing it, which is what seems like rejection through TF’s eyes. He’s essentially trying to regulate Graves’ emotions for him in an (innocently instinctive, I think) manipulative way, and he’s hurt and confused as if by rejection that Graves doesn’t accept that or won’t play along with it. “I’m trying to shield you from the consequences of your actions here because I care about you; why won’t you let me???” hahaha. In the process he also can’t take Graves’ emotions seriously or meet them until he’s been chased into a corner and is forced to, because as far as he’s concerned his job is to give them an out from all that and he can’t bear doing ‘his part’ while forced to take in just how broken Graves is inside and what it means; that he’s lost him all over again. There’s no simple ‘okay okay hang on I can fix this by myself one moment please’ here, sunshine.

Interestingly Graves DOES seem to recognize this uh love language of TF’s as it were, when he’s less severely triggered:

Damn me, he’s right. I do things my way. Always have. Whenever I pushed it too far, he had my back. He was always the one with the out.

But I didn’t listen to him that day, and I haven’t since.

And now, I’ve killed us both.

And this is the exact realization that makes him believe TF is telling the truth about what happened back then, and makes him try to save him. It’s not quite forgiveness just like that, all at once, but it is a clearing of Graves’ poor trauma-battered brain’s confusion, like he can finally see both of them clearly again and that there is deep love on both sides here even after everything.

Not only does he recognize it, he even gets it deeply enough that what he returns is in the same language:

Now, at the end, I believe T.F. I know he tried everything to get me out, like he did all those times when we ran together. This time, for once, I’ve got the out. I can at least give him that.

(Which is also proof that Graves is not unheedingly ‘my way or the highway’ or incompetent in relationships, incapable of taking on another person’s point of view and seriously considering it, or cruel or particularly aggressive in close relationships when not completely torn up by trauma. And again that mutual shared sense of fairness I think is at the base of how their dynamic works. He recognizes what TF has done for him and tried to do for him and what it means, and he wants to return that in kind, not least because it’s the fair thing to do. Again, it’s about the mutuality of it all! Graves may need some time to muddle through and figure it out sometimes but y’know he gets there he gets there eventually lmao, in some ways I suspect he can actually be more mature and levelheaded about interpersonal stuff than TF, who, poor man, is just one big aching quivering abandonment issue most days)

Like when it’s finally clicking into place what’s actually going on, that the care he’d thought was there hadn’t been a lie all along after all – suddenly the world makes sense again. Which seems to be enough for him to meet death if not peacefully then at least not as broken inside as he was before that moment and realization. (TBF TF could probably have been a lot more communicative about his intentions instead of expecting Graves to understand it just from his subtle maneuverings and like Vibes haha, but well that was the unspoken deal with his mother, that it had to be seamless so neither of them had to face what was going on)

It feels like a lot of their current issues in communication comes from Graves exasperatedly being like ‘Tobias I don’t want to be managed, I want you to just talk with me like a normal human being’ and ‘chasing after’ him when he pulls away because he feels abandoned, and TF having forgotten how to like… Person during that decade when he was alone, instead just doing that ‘what does this person want from me (and how can I use that to manipulate them)’ dance he’s gotten FRIGHTENINGLY good at with other people and that doesn’t really work with someone that knows you so well and actually wants your company. It’s going to take some sinking in that Graves doesn’t want him for what he can do for him but because, y’know. He’s him and they’re Partners.

I think TF can handle the current (understandable lol) turbulence in their relationship, but his biggest fear is to be really, truly seen by someone and deemed unworthy and abandoned, having let them that close. So in a weird fucked up way he was more okay with Graves trying to hunt him down and kill him than he would have been if he had looked at him as all that he was and went ‘actually y’know what? Fuck this and fuck you you’re not worth it, I’m just leaving without you’. Truly a “TF, he wants to kill you” “*wobbly teary voice* at least someone wants me for something” “TF NO” situation.

TL;DR: their parents were both terrible and dysfunctional in their own ways, but Mama Graves would n e v e r have left her kid alone on that riverbank; she’d sooner have cursed the rest of them black and blue and flipped them off with both hands before marching off with him. Accuse her of many things and rightly so, but she was no coward and she was loyal as fuck to the few things that mattered to her, she would have tried to fight the devil himself with a frying pan for that dumb fucking kid (if she was sober enough that day ouch). In the other direction TF’s mom would never have hit him. TF had more of an experience of a safe community, but then he also had a much more brutal and complete abandonment at the end of that. There are probably very good reasons Graves left Bilgewater for the mainland when he was barely even more than a boy. …man there are so many ways to mess up a child’s brain huh thank god they found each other and mostly managed to make that work honestly

*With the caveat that there’s some wiggle room for change here as I work on my TF POV WIP and refine the ideas I’ve got in there – change more in the small details than in the big picture concepts, though, I think I’ve got that moooostly settled now? also I really want to stress that this is just my ideas and opinions, if you imagine something completely different for their backgrounds that is Valid haha

#anon I hope you see this and also that my full on psychoanalysis at the slightest provocation isn't... too over the top haha #tf x graves #twistedgraves #tfgraves meta #league of legends #writing this all out really helped me solidify some stuff I'd been struggling to put into words so thanks for the prompt!

40 notes · View notes

inkdemonapologist · 4 years

Note

Okay but I do actually want to know both the things you love and the things you could rant about from DCTL?

OH BOY UHHHHHH okay lets see, I'm gonna see if I can do the "add a readmore after you post it" thing and see if that'll keep it stable.......

But also, much like Sammy, I am incapable of shutting up unless you strike me in the head with a blunt object, so uh, forgive my wordiness:

THINGS I ENJOY:

- DCTL gave us Sammy's ink addiction and like, if you had asked me before all this "what would you most like to see in a franchise?" I would not have answered "one of the characters drinks ink accidentally and then discovers that he can't stop" but boy that sure is my favourite concept that I LOVE to see handled literally any other way than how the book handled it!!!

- I like what it added to Tom and Allison and Norman!! Like, it's not big twists on their characters or anything -- we already knew Tom felt he was doing the wrong thing, so getting to see his CRUSHING GUILT over creating the machine isn't New Information, but it's nice to see and understand more of him; for all of them I feel a lot more attached to them after getting to see more of them as people.

- Like 90% of the "I LOVE IT" category for me is how the book handled Joey, and Buddy's relationship with Joey. The way Joey isn't a Sinister Mastermind Who’s Just Screwing With Everyone but just manipulative in a more mundane way -- someone who thinks of himself as just the guy with the vision to call the shots; he wants what he wants and this is how he's learned to get it; he exploits people not through devious schemes, but just by offering them something that they want or need and asking too much in return, expecting their loyalty for his favours. And the way he interacts with Buddy, making Buddy complicit with him and keeping Buddy off-balance and insecure while making him a favourite and treating him as Special is just PERFECT -- gives a lot of content to kind of extrapolate off of when pondering what must've drawn the others in and convinced them to ignore the red flags. I was initially frustrated with the idea of Buddy not being an artist and jUST DECIDING TO LEARN TO ANIMATE ON THE SPOT ("I've never done this before but I'm sure I can just do an artist's job" is a weirdly common throwaway thing in media and as an artist iTS A PET PEEVE) but actually the way they use his plagiarism to make him trapped in a lie in ways Joey doesn't even realise ends up being a neat echo of other employees (coughTOMcough), who were involved in much graver sins but suddenly felt they couldn't object or they'd lose their one chance, just like Buddy. There's a lot here that I think is really great.

OKAY THATS THE GOOD STUFF, LET'S COMPLAIN ABOUT SAMMY:

- Uncomfortable Bigotry Vagueness that we all knew was gonna be in this list -- I dunno man, a guy committing a microaggression and getting startled and defensive when he's called out for it doesn't necessarily completely ruin his character I GUESS, but the way this was handled is just SO WEIRD AND VAGUE that it's uncomfortable and it doesn't seem to serve any real purpose. "Is Tom black?" is a question I actually have to ask because the text sort of implies he is while also dancing around it and apparently Word of God said he's not??? which makes Buddy's comment nonsensical???? And I mean, you could go that route, since Buddy wonders to himself if Sammy talks to everyone like this -- HE ACTUALLY DOES!! Even within the text of the novel, he uses "Joey" instead of Mr. Drew, which is consistent with his audiologs in the game -- but that makes the writing suggest "this character THINKS this guy might be racist but actually they're reading too much into it and it wasn't racially motivated at all, he's just a jerk!!" wHICH IS SOMEHOW EVEN MORE ICKY??? Anyway like yeah I guess it's not inconsistent with his character that while Sammy Lawrence may not have any specific grudge against minorities he has probably not checked his privilege or done the work to challenge his own internal biases, but “Your Fav Probably Contributes To Systemic Racism In Ways He Hasn’t Considered, As Do We All When Our Assumptions Go Unchecked” is still a wild thing to wade through in a fun story about demonic cartoons

- but yknow so is T H E H O L O C A U S T

- Sammy's voice is wrong. I'm actually okay with him being a weird awkward asshole, I already kind of assumed he was and that's part of why I like him!! but there's so many places he doesn't quite... talk like himself? And not just in terms of word choice, like -- so in his monologue at the end, he's described as talking so quickly that his words are "tumbling out faster than he can speak them," which initially seems fine; like yeah, that's a Standard Scene we're familiar with, the person who's been Driven Mad With Insight becoming more and more manic as they try to convey it -- until I tried to imagine it and realised that Sammy doesn't talk like this. That's a really consistent quality I always notice about his voice; whether he's almost giddily excited in prophet mode, or he’s his irritated and overworked human self, or he's violently angry and his voice has that echo effect -- he always speaks very deliberately. He enunciates carefully. There's some circumstances where I'd buy this as showing that he's Not Himself, but I feel like those would kind of need to be in the middle of his transformation, not at the end of it.

- In fact a lot of the scenes with Sammy kind of have this feeling -- that it's not necessarily an exploration of Sammy as a character, but that he is filling a trope or archetype role here. Once he's fully transformed he excitedly describes the process as more of a mental compulsion, which is in contrast to his weird yeerk-infected behaviour when trying to get ink from Miss Lambert. Both of those scenes don't seem wrong on their own because they fit tropes we know -- but they feel weird when you try to fit them together.

- I also just in general am not a fan of the ink acting like a weird yeerk. It can be a parasite I guess but when it starts overwriting and puppeting people and crawling around to enter their body that's just a completely DIFFERENT kind of supernatural story and it’s not what im here for!!!

- THE FREAKIN!!! HE WILL SET US FREE!!!! WHY????????? SAMUEL LAWRENCE WHAT IS HE SETTING YOU FREE FROM??????? Sammy has No Motive for any of what he's doing, other than just Ink Made Me Do It. The whole thing that was INTERESTING about Sammy as a character is the contrast between this frustrated, ornery musician with no specific love for the cartoons he works on, and the manically devoted cultist he becomes. What happened in the middle there? What made him desperate enough to shift his mindset so much? "Something supernatural made him do things that don't benefit him in any way" is a very boring answer to this question!!! Susie was a victim who implies that her transformation has forced her to do things she didn't want to do, but we can still see her motive -- she wanted to be Alice, so she took a sketchy offer to try to get what she wanted. Even now, her violence echoes that goal -- to be a more perfect Alice. What did Sammy want? WHO KNOWS. Even in his ink-addled state at the end, we don't understand what he hopes the Ink Demon will even do for him, and in fact he seems to be responsible for creating the very scenario he's begging Bendy to reverse in the game.

- [sighs loudly into my hands]

- Overall I'm left wondering if the author just..... didn't like Sammy Lawrence? And I don't mean that in the sense of him being a rude jerk -- like, Joey is not a good person, but the author seems to be interested in him and in what makes him tick. There doesn't seem to be that same interest in Sammy. Sammy's role in the story is that of a monster, transformed into something murderous, unable to prevent or choose it. He's not a victim of anyone but the ink, no one had to manipulate him or figure out how his brain worked or what he wanted or what he feared or give him any reason to do the things he does -- ink got in his mouth and overwrote his personality. And we don't even get to see that change, not really. He starts out angry and defensive and continues being angry and defensive up until his very last scene, denying his ink-stealing but not really much else. We see all his prophetic sketches but we never see hints of this in him, we never see him start to act more excited and hopeful, we never see him seek out the demon he desires to please. Why do we never see Sammy struggling between his dismissive angry front and a building religious fervour he can't quite suppress? We don't get to see any of the in-between. There's no interest at all in why or even what it looked like as Sammy became what he became, when, to be honest, I suspect interest in precisely that is one reason he's such a big fav.

- It's funny, in a "cries into my hands" kind of way, when Sammy is just knocked in the head while monologuing and immediately removed from the story without further mention, like...... that sure is the pattern with him, isn't it, he just tries very very hard and never actually gets to matter, but it also fits right in here, too, in this book that doesn't want to think about his motives -- he rambles nonsensically, explaining nothing, gets one trademark phrase, and then is hastily removed so the story doesn't have to think about him anymore.

...................I think that's most of it.

...

Y'all............ I'm not ready for Sent From Above.......... I'm just not.... I'm not emotionally ready...... like..... Sammy has to be in that right..... he’s Susie’s boss and she has that big crush on him..................................... I’m not ready

#i know you have questions you always do #we all write on the walls #hopefully I have not gotten completely confused on any of these points but LMAO ITS POSSIBLE

74 notes · View notes

embalmerandphotographer · 4 years

Note

Do you have any hcs on Fiona Gilman and her interactions with the other survivors?

Ghost here! Oh I absolutely do. Fiona is the survivor I play most often after Aesop and I love her! Not just her skill, I also find her backstory very intriguing and have spent a lot of time talking to Greed about it, as is our way.

Okay so... First a warning or two:

1. This contains some spoilers for her deduction lines and birthday letter, so skip this one if you don't want to see that.

2. I'll freely admit that I love to push everything in a horror direction and this does of course also apply to the mega-evolved kiter herself.

Getting that out of the way...

I think it's clear that Fiona knew about and implied to have been drawn to Lakeside Village, where there was a cult religion worshiping a lake deity that was probably Hasur. We know the villagers sacrificed "livestock" to the their god by throwing them into the lake in exchange for their prayers being answered. We know Fiona was drawn to seek out occult mysteries, and that she has a philosophy of following where her gods lead her, taking the actions she believes they call on her to take. We also know the village is now abandoned, and letters later sent to villagers (see the Dancer's recent birthday letter) weren't answered. We also know that Fiona gained some pretty impressive magical powers at some point, ones she didn't have growing up.

So, Fiona went to the village, either believing herself drawn there or because of what she'd heard about the lake cult, or both. I think she, a very attractive and definitely driven if not also somewhat cunning young woman, was able to join the cult and become close to or even join its secretive inner circle, the one in charge of the actual summoning and sacrifices.

And Ms. Fiona Gilman had a very big wish she wanted granted, a deep prayer she had no doubt been holding close most of her life.

I think Fiona wanted to be special. Powerful. Part of the magical world. And she wanted to be follow the call of her gods, to be able to pass through the solid reality of this world into the spiritual one she always wanted but never had access to as a child.

And I think she that she got her wish. And that she sacrificed the entire population of Lakeside Village to the lake and to Hasur to get it. Consider that the villagers were asking for small things, and paying in blood sacrifice and the slaughter of livestock for even that. And who and what Fiona became is very much not the anxious, unhappy, and apparently seeming unexceptional person she was implied to have been before breaking away from her mother.

If you consider the survivor's abilities separate from how they're balanced by the game mechanics, Fiona is one of the most powerful of the survivors, if not the most powerful. Along with Patricia and Eli, she had actual magical abilities before coming to the manor*. And because of my take on her, I think that like Aesop, she'd killed enough people that she could have been (and might still one day be) a hunter instead of a survivor... but that’s a post for another day.

So! That's my HC for her backstory. You also asked about her interactions with the others.

First off, while I obviously think she's a sort of amoral-evil person on a grand scale, I think Fiona is probably perfectly nice and even quite charismatic on an individual basis. Kind of weird still, because she's the priestess of a cult, but charming and easy to get along with in spite of this. And while I do think Fiona is capable of being manipulative to get what she wants, I also think she doesn't think of her actions as evil or intentionally do harm. Even her drowning a whole village of people in a lake could have been framed, for her, as following her god's commands. Maybe she thought that after so many sacrifices, Hastur wouldn't be bound to the lake anymore, and she might even have been right about that.

(Btw this, in my mind, is one of the most dangerous types of person when they're amoral. Someone so very likable is also so much harder to criticize, to question, or even to think ill of.)

So, I think the survivors get along with her fine for the most part. I don't think any of them know about what she did (with maybe one exception), and that they take her at face value as another member of their strange, unwilling team.

Now... She's casually friendly with pretty much all the survivors, with a few exceptions, but that she might not have any very close connections at the manor. I think she has a mean-girls style friendship with Vera, and that’s her closest friend. Also she and Patricia have long, technical conversations about magic from time to time, but Patricia is deeply uninterested in getting cursed more/again and steers clear of whatever it is the Priestess is up to spiritually. Any of the survivors who are attracted to pretty ladies and susceptible to getting crushes probably do have mild to moderate crushes on her (Kevin, Vera, Freddy, Martha, Emily, William, Emma, and certainly others although I haven't thought through it too much). Also, for some reason I headcanon that Luca specifically Just Thinks She's Neat, because she has a fascinating ability that challenges his view of a scientific reality, and because they're both feral and he can vibe with that.

Aesop is completely, almost hilariously immune to her charisma and views her neutrally- a competent coworker with a hang up on one of the hunters that's really not his place to comment on.

On the other hand, I think Emily and Martha don't think much of her intelligence due to her spirituality/gods, and Emma just quietly doesn't get closely involved with Fiona outside of matches because she while she may be unhinged she has good instincts. Poor Andrew is absolutely terrified of her like the good Catholic boy he is. And she does unnerve a few of the other survivors but not in a way that they can quite put their finger on, so they dismiss it.

And then there's Eli. I've understood Eli's backstory to imply that he's from the Roman Empire, so way further back in the timeline than most of the others, who were take from eras closer to the World Wars. And Eli is linked to Fiona, but we don't know how. They have similar eye themes (Fiona's keys/portals have eyes on them and Eli's blindfold/owl are related to sight), but they can't have know each other when they were alive, and we don't hear anything about the lake cult being involved in Eli’s life or his future seeing. Fiona is implied to have served and still be following Hastur, but the same can't be said for Eli as far as I know.

I don't think Eli dislikes Fiona. They might even be friends in a way, or sort of colleagues. Certainly there aren't many other people they can talk to about magic, and they do share some kind of connection from outside the manor. But I think Eli has very mixed feeling about her, partly because he knows that mystical powers come with costs.

And I have a specific, wildly extrapolated headcanon about them. I don't think Eli was part of a cult dedicated to Hastur that existed long before Fiona was ever born. I think his own powers were given to him, in part, to stop things like what Fiona did in Lakeside Village from ever happening. To contain gods of chaos and protect the balance of the world. He might even have had visions of what happened, either with the Lakeside cult or with the manor games or both, and if so he just wasn't able to stop it, being too far away in time until he was pulled into the timeless pocket dimension the manor apparently exists in. (How interesting then for him to become trapped with living proof that what he saw and would have tired to prevent had already come to pass?)

Anyway! Those are my headcanons for Fiona, or what I have time to write down tonight.

Closing thoughts:

-I did also find another little bit of interesting trivia: part of Eli's Chinese name originally translated to Gilman. We also know reincarnation is a theme for him. Who knows what the manor game is about, after all?

-I also think it's EXTREMELY funny that Fiona claims to have not come to the manor after being called by a letter, but instead to have followed "a spirit" or one of her gods to the manor. Because if it's at all true, Ms. Gilman *broke into the manor*, either at the behest of her god (Hastur) or because she was following him. She broke in. Can she get out out? Does she just not want to? I have questions!!! Ms. Gilman what is your deal!!)

*(Servais, honey, I appreciate you, but we don't know if you had real magic or just excellent illusionism skills before the manor; I also think it's safe to say that Mike's juggling wasn't magical until the manor got ahold of him either, and so on with Vera, Aesop, etc.)

#identity v #fiona gilman #identity v headcanon #long post #coffin #sorry this took a few days to answer #hope you enjoy my ramblings about my murderous crystal hippie headcanons for fiona #Anonymous

15 notes · View notes

seolisame · 4 years

Text

BASE CHILD SUPPORT

In Canada child support is comprised of more than one component. The courts will address the issue of base support first. This is also known as section 3 support (from its origin section in the Federal and Provincial child support guidelines see https://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-97-175/page-1.html), or the “table amount’, since it is derived from a set of provincial tables. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-97-175/page-14.html#docCont.

Base child support is generally the least complex amount to compute since it can be calculated by referencing the appropriate provincial table. The amount is actually determined from a formula and the tables are the banded results of applying that formula. You can also use the Child Support lookup tool provided on the Justice Canada Website. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/cst-orpe.html. You will note the tables will only provide guidance for incomes up to $150,000, whereas the look-up tool will apply the formula to any income level.

The formula is based on only three inputs, the resident province of the payor, the number of dependent children, and the income of the payor.

Even though the formula is simple, this issue continues to be highly contentious, and the number of cases brought every year to order this amount is enormous. There are different reasons for this. Even though separated couples can easily access the calculation and can easily agree on the resulting amount, a court order is usually sought (many times on consent), in order to make the agreement official. Also, a court order can be sent for registration with the government’s Maintenance Enforcement Program (MEP) LINK in the event the agreement is broken or sporadically complied with. MEP is the only body with the authority to enforce payment. Private collection agencies cannot collect child support.

Again, though the tables are readily available, disagreement can arise over either of the three inputs. The correct provincial table is not generally litigated, though at times a payor parent may move across a provincial border and then a change is required. The number of children is generally not in dispute, but sometimes the status of step-children may need clarification, and at times the issue of parentage may need to be determined. Generally, someone who acted as a parent (i.e. stood in loco parentis) to a child or is found to be the biological parent, will be responsible for support. The determination of the payor’s income (aka Guideline income) is usually the persons line 150 on his Canadian tax return. But, the court will set the amount based on the most recent information available (see section ), which may be someone’s last three paystubs, a letter from an employer, on an extrapolated calculation of the current years total income, just to mention a few. In the case of a self-employed person, or a shareholder in a corporation, someone who works outside of Canada, or other non-traditional cases, some alternative methods of calculation (including pure imputation) may be employed. See sections 16-20.

Litigation is also caused by misinformation. I have encountered a number of persons who believe that shared parenting will negate the obligation to pay support. This is not true. It may cause a reduction, but the obligation will not negate. Shared parenting is the term used to describe the situation when separated parents each parent the children for roughly equal amounts of time. A special section of the Guidelines states that any person who has custody of or access to a child for more than 40% of the time is entitled to receive child support for that child. So, if both parents have the child for 50% of the time, they are both entitled to receive child support from the other. This is handled by calculating the amount owed to either parent and the offset amount is then awarded payable. The result is that the parent with the higher income will have to pay some support to the other parent based on the difference between their incomes.

Another common misconception I see is the assumption that base child support is calculated using a parents take-home income. This is false. Line 150 is your gross income before taxes or other payroll deductions are removed. And it includes all income including overtime, employee contributions to RRSP’s, etc. Some employee allowances such as travel allowances, truck allowances, etc., may not be included, but only to the extent that they reimburse the employee for actual out-of-pocket expenses of the employee. There are defences to the application for base child support, but they are few and far between. They usually result in small discretionary reductions only. The only absolute bar to an application is that the child is not yours (paternity testing required), or to bring successful evidence to prove you did not stand in place of a parent to the child. If you were married, both of these are presumed in law.

There are adjustments allowed if your income is over 150,000, if you took on a large proportion of the matrimonial debt upon separation, if you are making indirect support (the mortgage, maybe), if you are paying all of the costs of travel required to access the children ( but not always), but keep in mind each of these are at the discretion of the judge.

There is one claim referred to “undue hardship” which will be successful if the payor can successfully prove that his household income is actually less than that of the recipient, and that the payment of support would cause a hardship upon the payor. This calculation is found in the guidelines, and a worksheet is available to assist persons through the calculation. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/fl-lf/child-enfant/guide/step8-etap8.html.

Persons often ask: “what if my income changes? Or What happens if I get laid off?” Unfortunately, in Alberta this has become a common scenario. Generally, if you have an existing court order, and you cannot get your ex’s agreement to reduce your support, a court application to vary the order will be required. The test for reducing child support based on income changes is whether or not that change is temporary. If you are laid off, you will have to show the court that this is not a temporary situation otherwise you will not be successful.

If your order is being enforced by MEP and you are an employee, your support can be automatically adjusted each year by MEP if your court order says you agree to have the amount subject to the MEP’s recalculation program. This program is useful for smaller, or seasonal adjustments to your income. But the recalculation program is an annual recalculation. Situations that involve catastrophic changes should be handled by court application.

People often ask if court orders must be registered with MEP. The answer is no, but either party has the right to choose to do so, and if they do there is no defense to the registration.

Some of the above issues will be more fully explored in further blog postings.

#family_lawyer #divorce lawyer

1 note · View note

mittensmorgul · 5 years

Note

Look, I know you've covered this already but I just want to reiterate how AWESOME it is that several lines and scenes of s14 were deliberately drawing our attention to the in‐betweens, to the fact that these guys have lives outside of what we seen and that they have significant moments in those off screen lives. I just fricking *love* that.

Hi hi! I know you sent this like a week ago, but I really wanted to have time to sit down and detail all the moments in s14 where they’ve used this device before replying– both for the sake of completeness in demonstrating just how critical they’ve made these “in between” spaces to the overall narrative, as well as for my own general reference purposes. :P

I’ll start by saying that the show has done this on some level from the start. I mean, the entire series begins with a cold open in 1983 before jumping 22 years into the future to begin in the “present day” of October, 2005. We begin our introduction to the story of Supernatural immediately aware that there’s already a metric fuckton of backstory we’re due to have filled in, and we’re primed to begin looking for more pieces to flesh out that history from the moment the first scene airs.

*clenches fist* STORYTELLING

I’m currently in mid-late s7 in my eternal rewatch, and even s7 uses this device MULTIPLE times. I mean, s6 does this, as well, immediately informing us that a year has passed since the events of 5.22, and gradually filling in the missing events from that gap, using Sam’s soullessness and then post-re-ensoulening amnesia about his soulless time, him “scratching the wall” and beginning to piece his own memories together, as one entry point into this “filling in the blanks of the past for full understanding of the present” storytelling device. The other major expression of this device in s6 is Castiel’s story throughout the season, which doesn’t truly begin to fill in all the blanks and answer all the questions until episode TWENTY.

(I am not defending this storytelling choice, because in s6 it served as a metaphorical “punishment,” which is still so skeevy I struggle to watch the season as a whole… in Gamble Era, characters are “punished” for remembering their past– Sam for his guilt over what he did while soulless, and eventually Cas for his hubris in believing he could devour the souls of purgatory without consequences… and again, what I get from Gamble Era overall is an unkindness to all the characters… this Erasure of Identity. For years now, I’ve read this exchange from 6.09 as a bit of an indictment of the story of that era by Ben Edlund:

SAM: So you’re saying having a soul equals suffering.DEAN: Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying.SAM: Like, the million times you almost called Lisa. So you’re saying suffering is a good thing.DEAN: I’m saying it’s the only game in town.

but back to the point)

S7 employed this technique in really in-your-face obvious ways, showing us time skips with little montages that cover several weeks in a matter of less than a minute, during which we’re shown the tone of the events of the “missing time” and are being told directly how to fill in those blanks:

7.01 shows this montage through Dean repairing Baby while receiving occasional updates on Sam’s recovery and Cas’s Godstiel rampage.

7.03 gives us a montage of Dean’s healing leg while he’s relegated to the sofa in the cabin watching tv… weeks elapse like this before the action picks up again.

7.10 uses flashbacks as Bobby lays dying to directly show us a fuller snapshot of who he is as a character, and why he’s been so important to Sam and Dean as their adoptive father figure

7.11 uses another “weeks pass” montage to show us Sam and Dean’s grief and their respective ways of handling Bobby’s loss

7.17 uses another flashback montage as Castiel literally rebuilds his identity from these moments… can’t really be more anvilicious than this about the import of filling in the narrative gaps…

But over the years, this has evolved in the narrative from these blatantly obvious tells to something we’re being low-level reminded of in nearly every episode through a constant implicit assumption that these characters have lives outside of what we see on The Magic Rectangle for 42 minutes a week. The show’s gone from literally subtitling these scenes and telling us exactly what we’re seeing to requiring our assumption that all we need to learn how to fill in the blanks is to assume these are actually real people who casually reference things we never knew before from their own lives and assume we know all the characters well enough by now to correctly fill in the blanks they so casually point out to us, or even expand on vast swaths of otherwise “missing time” from what we actively see of their lives from an otherwise minor comment made in passing…

Gosh, ain’t it nice when writers assume their audience is actually intelligent, considerate, engaged, and caring like this? Honestly in this day and age of GOTCHA! oneupsmanship, of authors attempting to demonstrate their intellectual superiority over their audience, it’s rather refreshing.

One more thing before we jump right into s14. Dabb and Company have been “educating” us on how to read these subtextual instructions for years now. We had the Mixtape Revelation in 12.19 that idiotically devolved into fandom arguments over what a mixtape itself was intended to symbolize, with people arguing that the thing itself had no inherent romantic implications (which… wow… but people be dumb sometimes…). I’d argue that regardless of what anyone has convinced themselves the gift meant symbolically (or didn’t mean symbolically for people with their heads shoved so far up their butts they actually made that argument in a public forum with a straight face and actually got mad about folks who actually know better…), what it meant NARRATIVELY was that the original gifting of the tape was something that had happened in the past, that we-the-audience previously had no knowledge of this particular interaction between Dean and Cas, and were being SPECIFICALLY TOLD that even though WE DID NOT SEE IT HAPPEN ON SCREEN, it absolutely, definitely, CANONICALLY ACTUALLY HAPPENED regardless of that fact.

Not only did that unseen exchange canonically happen, it was discussed by Dean and Cas in a casual fashion, as if it was simply one moment in a past filled with moments just like it. In a season where the episodes leading up to this one were filled with comments about Dean and Cas calling each other regularly (conversations that we never see, yet are informed casually happen constantly offscreen), and Dean’s increasing distress over NOT being able to reach Cas for several episodes, it’s impossible NOT to draw the conclusion that this lack of communication is HIGHLY IRREGULAR and therefore SOMETHING WE SHOULD ALL BE CONCERNED ABOUT. We didn’t need to *see* all of this to apply this fact far more broadly to the entire narrative, and understand there were massive gaps between what they could show us in 42 minutes a week versus what the baseline background life is for all of these characters in those between-times.

They doubled down on this in s13, specifically in 13.06, both with the “Dean and Cas regularly watch movies together” comments AND in the casual knowledge Cas shares with Jack about Dean’s sleeping and coffee drinking habits. It’s not just these isolated facts that we’re supposed to take away from these sorts of exchanges, but what they mean in the larger context of their off-camera interactions and relationship as a whole.

So that said, let’s move on to s14, where this has honestly evolved to the next level. The rest of this is going under a cut for now, because the totality of this post is something like 7700 words...

14.01, Stranger in a Strange Land:

The season begins with a montage of Dinkle’s actions over a period of weeks, talking to different people and asking what they want. We don’t see every one of these conversations, but we can extrapolate out from the ones we DO see and infer how all of those experiences guide his subsequent actions (as well as Dean’s subsequent emotional and psychological state later down the road).

But we’re shown one more of those conversations INDIRECTLY, from an offhand comment of another character, where we’re both reminded of Dinkle’s little conversations, AND reminded that they don’t constitute the sum total of those conversations. There is much we haven’t seen (and will NOT see, because this scene renders any additional on-screen time to cover the tone and content of those conversations superfluous and redundant), and yet we still understand the importance and gravity of Dinkle’s entire occupation during those missing weeks:

Kip:You see, recently, I had a revelation. You know, somebody asked me what it was that I wanted. And I realized that after 600 years as a demon walking the planet, destroying, drinking, defiling – you know, the Three D’s – I didn’t know. So, I sat back, and I gave it a good think, and I realized exactly what I wanted.Castiel: And what is it?Kip: Everything.

We also see this from the other side of the narrative– through the progression of events occurring at the Bunker in Dean’s absence. Sam’s despair is conveyed not only in dialogue in his conversation with Mary, it’s conveyed through just how poorly he’s looking after his own wellbeing, not shaving (visual confirmation of his mindset informing us of what his life’s been like over the previous weeks), not eating or sleeping (we’re told, and believe because of how he’s presenting himself, but also emotionally informs us of how he’s been affected by his ordeal), while simultaneously having stepped up to lead the army of AU Hunters– i.e. people from a world where war against Michael has been their lives for more than a decade, and are literally bringing that experience to THIS world, metaphorically going back to the start of their own battle to a world where Michael is only BEGINNING to enact that war on this world, who now have the experience of having survived that war and the knowledge gained while having fought against it, but also a chance to stop it before it can be allowed to start again. Or that is the hope, you know?

We’re also seeing Jack struggle with guilt, with adapting to life without the magical powers he’d been born with, and being forced to confront what is truly important to him, and what his own humanity means to him.

We’re subtly being reminded of VAST quantities of canon upon which the current character developments are resting.

14.02, Gods and Monsters:

There’s a lot of “backtracing” through character arcs in this one, which I’m gonna boil down to the general themes:

Jack seeking out his familial history, seeking out Kelly Kline’s parents to make a personal connection to his mother’s past in order to better understand himself now

Cas relating parts of his own past to Jack (falling and becoming human, not mourning the past he can’t change but finding strength in himself regardless of his current circumstance, and to have patience while his circumstance will change in future) (aside to remind folks that this setup at the beginning of the season is entirely about subverting his words through his own actions throughout the season… with 14.14 being the massive turning point again for both Jack and Cas)

Nick’s setup of beginning to fill in the blanks from his own life after a decade of having lost everything to his possession by Lucifer. He’s got a lot of catching up to do, and a heck of a lot of blanks to fill.

the absolute knowledge that the show is 100% aware of how they’ve trained us to look at the narrative this deeply, using character mirrors, foreshadowing, parallels, etc., and that they’re keen to use this power against us. And it’s up to us to understand the difference between “things being presented to us for the purposes of subversion” and “things being presented to us to fill in narrative blanks.�� Like the entirety of Dinkle’s conversations with both Dean and Lydia the vampire. Heck I’m already down to bullet points and I’m gonna need to extrapolate on this one… *sighs*

Let’s start simple, with a couple of quotes:

Michael: Why do you think I dumped your brothers and sisters in plain sight? Why do you think I let you escape?Lydia: You let me escape?Michael: Rule number 1 – you can’t have a trap without bait. That brings us to rule number 2, which says once the trap has been sprung, you don’t need the bait anymore.

and

Dean: Get… out!Michael: I don’t think so.Dean: You can’t!Michael: Oh, but I can. Because, see… I own you. So hang on and enjoy the ride.

Because the first defines and contextualizes the second… Do I really need to elaborate? No? Oh good, then we can move on!

14.03, The Scar:

Again, using the trope of amnesia and memory recovery to illustrate the emotional and psychological impact of “missing time,” if not the entirety of the content of that missing gap. In addition, to Dean recovering his memories and demonstrating his reaction to his own lost time, the two respective cases of the week (Darth Kaia, learning how she came to this universe, and everything she’s endured at Dinkle’s hands also informing further the information we learned in 14.01, and in the bunker Jack and Cas helping heal Lora of a witch’s curse that was literally stealing time from her in the form of her own life energy).

I love demonstrating how “filling narrative gaps from the past” is not only built into the inherent structure of the narrative like this, it’s also the entire purpose of all the character development we’re witnessing, as well as setting the foundation of the entire story going forward.

We had that in spades from Jody, putting in plain words what we all saw happening in 13.10:

Jody: They have a right to know but I can’t. I promised Claire human cases are mine, but anything “monstery” I’d loop her in: this. God. Claire’s been doing so good. I mean anything connected to Kaia, she’s a powder keg. First loves strikes quick, and then to lose it like that. Wow, you two are having a time of it.

Confirming the subtext of Claire and Kaia’s relationship, while simultaneously informing us of what Jody, Claire, et al’s lives have been like since then, filling in a huge narrative gap with just a few innocuous comments. But there’s one more example from within the span of this episode:

Sam: Okay, look, I’m just saying… you said you let Michael in, then, bang you’re back in a blink. But for me? You were gone for weeks. I didn’t know if you were alive. I just need you to talk to me, to slow down so I can catch up.

Sam, defining the narrative gap and begging for information to fill it with. And then at the end of the episode, he gets an answer, but it’s nothing like what he expected or hoped for:

Dean: And it wasn’t a blink, being possessed. I make it sound like that, but it wasn’t. I don’t remember most of what Michael did with me because I was underwater, drowning, and that I remember. I felt every second of it – clawing, fighting for air. I thought I could make it out, but I couldn’t. I wasn’t strong enough. And now he’s gone and he’s out there putting an army of monsters together and he’s hurting people. And its all on me, man. I said yes. It’s my fault.

And it’s still not really an answer.

14.04, Mint Condition:

Narrative gap reshuffle yahtzee. I’m just gonna give a few links to meta already written for this one, because it’s about the journey, and being informed enough to pay attention to all the sights along the roadside as we go:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/179792849870/when-in-doubt-sing-mittensmorgul-i

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/181790806615/questions-and-their-empty-spaces

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/179742780230/mittens-help-dean-says-he-loves-hatchet-man

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/179734411135/i-love-there-wasnt-any-acknowledgement-about-dean

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/179724128520/stuarts-my-best-friend-we-watch-movies-and-eat

(gotta throw in at least one destiel reference…)

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/179700702490/hey-mittens-just-wondering-if-you-could-help-me

And because this reading list is already getting long, I just want to use this post to point out how the use of narrative mirrors informs our understanding of those one-off characters through our established understanding of the main characters, enabling those mirror characters to serve their function in the story. Davy was not subtle with pointing that out in this episode, and it’s an essential tool in understanding the bigger picture of the narrative. But it’s also a device in filling narrative gaps by recognizing and applying the subtextual lessons being demonstrated:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/179695858820/a-few-observations-on-the-mirror-characters

So this isn’t just about individual lines at this point, but an entire narrative shift that the writers spent the entire first half of s14 laying out for us through these sorts of storytelling lessons hidden just under the surface of the story itself. Brilliant.

Basically, if you’re NOT making these connections and using your brain to flesh out the entire world pointed at in the narrative gaps, you don’t really have a hope of understanding the bigger story.

14.05, Nightmare Logic:

Aah, the superpowered djinn, 3D walking metaphor for filling in gaps from the past to find wholeness in the present. Also, one of Michael’s “monster traps” he laid out in order to lure in and kill unwary hunters, which he believed (and the monsters themselves believed) made them more powerful, but in reality became the vehicle through which the Winchesters were eventually able to gain the upper hand… they survived the encounter and walked away with new knowledge about both themselves AND Michael’s bigger plans that had been evading them before this episode.

Information fills narrative gaps.

The djinn itself has been “enhanced” from djinn we’ve seen in the past, able to create its illusions in reality rather than only within its victims own minds. What was imaginary becomes tangible. Subtext becomes text.

We also get AU!Bobby’s backstory, which demonstrates that this alternate version of Bobby is really nothing like our original version, and the sum of his life experiences have made him who he is.

We also get another “zombie” reference, which the more I think back on this entire season (and Jack’s long obsession with zombies in general) is an interesting metaphor for this sort of viewing, not engaging with the deeper text and instead shuffling across it without looking deeper. Because pretty much every time someone suggested the monster could be a zombie, it’s definitively shown to be something much more complex once they begin to dig for answers.

(we also have Dean discussing his past, his relationship with his father, and talking about how setting that baggage aside and living in the present, and for the future, is something he’s worked long and hard to achieve for himself. And we’ve seen some of that journey for him, but this was a huge step for him, which will become profoundly more evident in 14.10 and 14.13)

14.06, Optimism:

Oh, we wanted zombie references? Well, alrighty, have some zombie references! Via the entirely self-deluded MotW character, masquerading as a person with a sad backstory of being “unlucky in love” while all the while she’s a necromancer who murdered and resurrected her boyfriend as a mindless zombie she enacts a brutal game with for her own personal pleasure: luring in suitors and letting her zombie boyfriend kill and eat them. Worst honey trap ever.

Speaking of honey, the other MotW is a fly dude who couldn’t find love among his species and exiled himself to live alone among a pile of rotting corpses of his victims. I mean… ew.

But back to our necromancer, who is a lonely librarian, who is surrounded by stories and laments that people in her town aren’t interested in stories. All the while she’s not engaging with her own reality, and has decided that her own version of the story is an accurate reflection of reality (while the rest of us shake our heads in horror because whoa no hon…)

We also learn AU!Charlie’s backstory, with the constant reminders that what Sam keeps mistaking on the surface level for “his Charlie” IS NOT HER. Man, I feel that feel, AU!Charlie.

Jack: What's 'courting?'Dean: It's what you do before you start dating.Jack: Oh, and that's the thing you do before the sex.Wanda: Sometimes you just have the sex.

Yes, Wanda. Sometimes you skip all the courting, all the emotional and interpersonal stuff, and just go right to the sex. But then you tend to just walk away after without any sort of deeper connection having been made. One night stands are fine, but they’re very different things from deep interpersonal relationships.

You can absolutely engage with Supernatural like a one night stand. The story’s fun on the surface, but ultimately the courting is what provides the deep payoff.

14.07, Unhuman Nature:

We get back to the twisted story of Nick, and his quest to understand himself. He’s filling in more of those horrific gaps in his history and getting closer to the Worst Possible Conclusions about himself. He ENJOYED being Lucifer’s vessel, and wants that feeling of power back, even if it wasn’t HIS power, just being the vehicle for that power is enough for him, more important to him than even discovering the truth about himself. At the bottom of himself, he’s just an empty douchebag-shaped vessel for pure evil.

What a fucking delight >.>

Nurse: Uh-huh. Family medical history? Let's start with the father.Dean: He's dead.Nurse: Cause of death?Castiel: He was stabbed through the heart, and he exploded.Dean: Okay, you know what? We don't have time for this. All right, he's sick. His name is Jack Kline. His father exploded. There, you've got all the basics. Now what does he need to do to see a doctor?

Well that simplified the whole “filling in the backstory through the narrative negative spaces” thing in this episode, didn’t it?

Jack: Since I've been alive, everyone assumed that I would be this special 'person' who goes on forever. Only now it looks like forever might be a couple of weeks, so--Dean: We don't know that.Jack: What I do know is I'm done being special. Before my life is over, I want to live it. I just want a chance to get a tan or see a hockey game... get a parking ticket... get bored... and when it's all over -- die.

I mean, isn’t that what all of TFW kind of wants? They want to not be “special.” They want the universe to stop picking on them specifically. They want to just live their lives until they’re done.

Jack: You once told me you and your father did the exact same thing. It was your happiest memory of him.Dean: I didn't say that.Jack: It was how you said it. I could tell. I guess my point is that if I don't make it... The stuff I'd miss -- it wouldn't be things like Tahiti. Or the Taj Mahal. I'd miss more time with you. I'm getting that life isn't all these big, amazing moments. It's time together that matters. Like this.Dean: Well, who'd have thought hanging out with me would make you sentimental?

Dude. Dean. Everyone thought this. You are the king of “family is the most important thing in the universe without which I am nothing.” Talk about Jack filling in that particular blank for you.

14.08, Byzantium:

Aka that one where we discover something important to Jack in his own Heaven-- and it’s literally a missing scene from 13.06 and their road trip to Dodge City where they stop for burgers. UNPROBLEMATIC FAMILY BONDING IS JACK’S HEAVEN. And it also fills in a past narrative gap, specifically from an episode that was structured around filling in narrative gaps. WE’RE THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS, PEOPLE.

We also have the return of Lily Sunder, now grown old since she’d completed her revenge quest against Ishim and the other angels who’d wronged her (including Cas, who literally killed Ishim FOR her). Talk about filling in a lifetime worth of gaps, and her literal near-lack of a soul she “fills in” through one final sacrifice made of love, which earns her redemption and entrance to Heaven.

I mean… those narrative gaps are looking pretty important here right about now.

Also, what’s that other big gap I haven’t mentioned yet? Oh, right! A villain literally known as “The Empty.” I’m sure that’s not meta relevant to the importance of the narrative empty spaces at all...

14.09, The Spear.

Sequel to The Scar (since the spear is what left Dean with the scar in the first place, so we’re back on our Dinkle nonsense again). There’s a lot of blank-filling going on in this episode.

Remember Garth? Well, as he’s reintroduced in this episode it appears as if he’s gone over to the Dark Side, but of course we learn he’s actually there as a deep cover agent for the Winchesters. This tells us they’ve been keeping in close touch with Garth all this time, despite us not having seen him on screen in ages. (FIVE YEARS!)

Remember Ketch? Well, he’s also doing deep cover agency stuff for the Winchesters, but with a level of incompetence that reminds us all that he’s still not one of the good guys, no matter how hard he’s trying, he’s still… falling a bit short. But at least they’re still keeping contact with him. And BOTH of these characters appearing after a while offscreen reminds us that TFW truly aren’t alone in the world, and they DO have this network of people (at varying degrees of competence still ranging from typical bumbling civvie to TFW themselves).

This entire episode was also a massive reference to Die Hard. Just… it was Die Hard: Supernatural. And we know Dean has referenced this movie endlessly. But the funniest thing: Die Hard isn’t actually referenced ONE SINGLE TIME in text in this episode. Nobody points out the similarities between the situation at the Hitomi Plaza at Christmas with Die Hard. Narrative negative space ftw.

And then we have the reveal that Michael had somehow left a “secret back door” open into Dean, and was able to just jump right back into him when it was convenient to do so. I.e., when he was losing the fight to Dean. He had a cheat code at the ready, because his possession of Dean had been operating on cheat code rules since the start in 13.23. His entire possession of Dean was a violation of the “standard rules of angel possession.” Consent of the vessel being primary. Even BAD consent has been enough in the past-- tricking the vessel into saying yes, backing them into a corner. I mean, remember s5 and the horrors Zachariah was willing to go to in order to secure Dean’s yes? Not even manipulation here with this version of Michael. Even if the face of Dean’s abject rejection of his possession, he refused to vacate the premises. Which is an interesting narrative blank to fill in, yes? Angels may have these rules, but for some reason-- is it Michael’s supreme power? Is it the fact Dean is his “destined vessel?” is it a factor of this Michael being from an alternate universe that might operate on different rules? Is it a factor of Dean’s own lack of conviction in his demand that Michael get out? Whatever it is… it is interesting.

We also catch up with Darth Kaia, who after months of balking at the notion, hands over her spear to Dean with the promise that he’ll return it after he kills Michael. It would solve her ongoing problems with the monsters Michael had been relentlessly sending after her. But he also promises to help her find her way back to her own universe. And now we don’t even know if any of that is possible… (aside to say that I’m now crying over the loss of Wayward again, and I feel this lack of resolution here is a damn pointed statement on that from Bobo.)

14.10, Nihilism.

Nihilism being a descriptor of Michael’s basic personality, in this case.

The most long-term relevant narrative negative spaces in this episode are Sam and Cas venturing into Dean’s mind, and literally using what they know about Dean to find where Michael had locked him away. They literally rely on their knowledge of who he is as a person as a map to find him, and then as a codex to actually get through to him and break him out of the illusion Michael had trapped him in. And then they all turn around and weaponize all of that to lock Michael away in Dean’s mind fridge.

Metaphors, anyone?

Meanwhile, Michael literally insists he’s telling everyone the truth about how Dean really feels about them, but it’s all… ALL OF IT… a manipulation and a lie.

(aside to admit that at this point I have been working on this post on and off for the last 12 hours, can barely remember what the point of it even was, and regret everything. I think we were supposed to be discussing Narrative References To Stuff That Happens On Screen, but at this point, that is so deeply intertwined with the narrative structure as a whole that I’m having trouble separating out textual references to offscreen stuff from the actual content of the story as a whole… yes this is already approaching 5k words at this point, and no I don’t care anymore :P)

14.11, Damaged Goods.

Dean is given information (that we have not yet seen) by Billie (again, offscreen) about “the only way to save the universe.”

Disclaimer to note that we STILL haven’t seen exactly what Billie showed Dean in her magical destiny book… which fact in itself can be open to myriad interpretations, because canon itself has shifted from this point in the canonical timeline to what we have actually witnessed unfold, which fundamentally differs between what Billie told Dean and what actually transpired on screen.

This… is major.

Also, Nick, and the effective end of his story… or is it? He’s finally got his personal backstory filled in, and turns out he was just a dick all along! Surprise! Because his “truth” never actually mattered to him. It was all a lie he told himself from the very first moment he was ever introduced on screen back in 5.01. He was never a good person who’d been used by Lucifer and manipulated into doing terrible things. He was always just a bad person who’d been looking for an excuse to do terrible things. Lucifer was just his excuse.

Dean fills in some horrific bits of their childhood for Mary through the metaphor of Winchester Surprise. Apparently delicious to Dean, but yikes… stuff like that’s really not healthy…

14.12, Prophet and Loss:

So, Donatello might not be as brain dead as previously believed! Let’s fill in that backstory, through a broken prophet who can’t be fully realized because Donatello’s technically not dead, so the new guy is getting a distorted message because Donatello’s interrupting the signal.

Dean asked Sam not to tell Cas about his Drama Coffin plan, but of course Sam had immediately told Cas about his drama coffin plan anyway…

CAS: Sam. Maybe if I spoke with Dean…SAM: It wouldn’t matter. Believe me, I-I I’ve never seen him like this. He won’t listen to me. H-He just – No. If we don’t find some way… Dean’s gone.

But then just a little while later, when Dean talks to Cas and learns that Cas knows his entire dumbass plan:

DEAN: Really?SAM: Dean, it’s Cas. I had to tell him.

Well, some time in the previous few hours, when Sam hasn’t been trapped in the car with Dean (which we know he has been canonically), Sam’s first priority was calling Cas to tell him about Dean’s plan. Like… duh…

14.13, Lebanon:

I love this episode on every possible level. It drops us at the climax of a hunt and just trusts us to understand what’s going on. Someone has been murdered for their collection of supernatural artifacts, and it’s been traced to this shop, where the owner trades in dangerous artifacts… all of that happened offscreen, yet we understand the context if not the specific case itself. Beautiful.

Then we have the cursed pearl that apparently grants a wish. Dean uses it to theoretically wish that Michael was out of his head. In monkey’s paw fashion, instead of just granting the wish through the simplest means, the wish actually attempts to rewrite history (this is the sort of thing that differentiates a “cursed object” from a “magical cure”) in order to remove the root infiltration of Michael into Dean’s life… by literally bringing John Winchester into the present time from 2003, removing him from the entire timeline to this point and changing EVERYTHING.

Talk about filling a narrative negative space. Cas doesn’t know them, Dean never went to Hell. Hell, Dean never even went to collect Sam from Stanford. NOTHING from the entire history of the series as we know it actually happened AT ALL.

At least we got to see Zachariah get stabbed again. Sam deserved a turn, you know? :’)

But we also have the other half of the episode-- the case in Lebanon, and seeing the Winchesters through the eyes of the locals. Talk about a HUGE reminder of the things that happen offscreen. They go to the post office, the local shops, and have a weird reputation around town, despite most of the townsfolk accepting their brand of weirdness. It’s… weirdly refreshing, seeing how they’ve gone from “hunters of urban legends” in s1 to “actual urban legends themselves” in s14. The power of storytelling at its finest.

In this case, so many personal blanks were filled in for Mary, Sam, and Dean just by being able to share a single family dinner with John in the aftermath of everything else. In the end, Sam and Dean CHOSE their own lives, and smashed the pearl with John’s blessing, putting everything back the way it was. The most powerful line in this entire episode, to me:

John: Dean. I, uh -- I never meant for this.Dean: Dad, we pulled you here.John: No, son. My fight. It was supposed to end with me, with Yellow Eyes. But now you -- you are a grown man, and I am incredibly proud of you. I guess that I had hoped, eventually, you would... get yourself a normal life, a peaceful life, a family.Dean: I have a family.

HE HAS A FAMILY. :’)

It might not be what John ever imagined for him. Or even what Mary wanted for him when she rejected the hunting life the first time around. But it’s the family Dean earned for himself. The one he CHOSE for himself. And he wouldn’t trade it for anything-- not even for the family he was born into, or a white picket fence he used to think he should have.

And then after this… everything changes… again…

14.14, Ouroboros:

Right. That one where everything changed. Where everything from Billie’s Books of Certain Prophecy to Jack’s soul to Dean’s certainty about… pretty much everything… went up in a swirling whirlpool of burning grace.

Yes, the episode where they burned the spiral narrative structure and were clearly beginning the inevitable run toward endgame. I mean it had been hinted at as a possibility before this, and 14.13 was certainly a product of the inevitability of endgame, but this episode sealed the deal.

They could’ve technically still gotten away with 14.13 as a one-off product of “very special 300th episode” and still continued down the narrative spiral that they’ve been circling for years now, but in retrospect from beyond the rest of s14, this was the official burn point.

So the story shifts radically in very fundamental ways from this point on, and reference to the past become… different. But what happens offscreen in the context of these episodes going forward takes on so much more weight as a result. We’re now “living in the present” with these characters.

We have Sam’s relationship with Rowena, which has clearly developed to the point of casual intimacy. Rowena confronts Sam in ways we’ve never seen before, demonstrating a confidence in their interactions DESPITE Billie’s assertion that Sam will be the one to “kill” her. That has strangely given her a sense of… comfort… with Sam, that’s demonstrated in the fact that they work together through this entire case-- paired off much the way Dean and Cas are.

Again, like in 14.06 and 14.13, we’re dropped into the middle of their case, and only informed that they’ve been tracing this monster through numerous other towns in this episode, requiring us to extrapolate out their entire hunt from discovering there might be a case, to the point where they’ve even brought Rowena onboard to help give them an advantage of a monster that had repeatedly eluded them.

The monster itself has an advantage in that it can literally see the future and escape before they catch him, until they discover the huge gaping hole in what it can actually see-- Cas and Jack are literally invisible to it. He can’t see THEM coming, specifically. The importance of actually reading what we DON’T see. Because if the monster hadn’t been so confident in what it COULD see, he would’ve understood that he was missing a critical piece of information-- the door literally shut itself in his vision of the future and he didn’t bother to stop and question WHY. And it was his downfall.

The narrative is telling us that missing this key gap-filling information is effectively our downfall as viewers.

14.15, Peace of Mind:

Hooray, we’re back to simple “missing scene” levels of text to latch on to, and I don’t have to swim through the whole of the narrative structure to make a comment. Wheeee! (sorry it’s been like 14 hours since I started writing this reply and I’ve achieved Peak Mental Exhaustion for it) :P

Let’s reflect on how all of the characters managed to delude themselves in this episode, and simultaneously approach their own personal concerns without actually talking to each other directly… and then instead focus on this exchange:

Dean: Oh. Hey! How was Arkansas?Sam: Arkansas was, uh It was weird.Dean: Heard you wore a cardigan.Castiel: Yeah, I told him about the cardigan.Sam: Great. Thanks.Dean: And the wife. He said you were, uh, really happy.

Yep. Proof again of offscreen communication happening, in a way I can yell and point at without having to write paragraphs to explain and defend. :P Aah, just like the simpler days of our past… which hey, is also a narrative theme of this episode! Nostalgia!

14.16, Don’t Go In The Woods:

Or, that one where we discuss why we don’t share everything with the general public, while Jack… behaves poorly with the general public, and then hides that fact from Sam and Dean. Also, we have this confirmation of offscreen conversation:

SAM: You got it. I'll grab Cas.DEAN: Mm. He actually left.SAM: What?DEAN: Early this morning.SAM: Why?DEAN: I don't know. Something about being cooped up in the bunker for a few weeks. We all need to stretch our legs. I get it.

Dean… had a whole conversation with Cas… and didn’t even mention it until Sam specifically asked about Cas. Stuff happened offscreen… big important stuff… and we’re only getting a peek at it now. Not only that-- because this will be VITAL to remember two episodes down the road-- they have been cooped up in the bunker “for a few weeks.” In 14.15 ONE EPISODE EARLIER, Dean complained to Sam that he’d been driving them literally from case to case without a break:

Sam: (Sam was in the map room flashing back to Maggie and the other hunters dying. He looked sad as he went to the kitchen) Found us a case. Arkansas.Dean: We've just done three back-to-back Hunts. I need some rest. At least a night. We both do.Sam: Yeah, well I'm leaving in ten.Dean: Like I said, not good.Castiel: Maybe I should go with him. And you can stay with Jack.

So the events of 14.16 are clearly after a hiatus of several weeks. Again, things have happened offscreen, and we’re only learning about them in the absolute most casual statement-in-passing sorts of ways, but these tiny references are pretty earth-shattering.

14.17, Game Night:

The timeline isn’t concrete, but I’ve written in several places that I believe 14.16, and 14.17 flow one into the other, just based on these subtextual sorts of cues-- Dean’s statement in 14.16 that Cas had been feeling cooped up after several weeks in the bunker, the fact that Cas had only LEFT the bunker at the beginning of 14.16 and we only see him reach his destination of talking with Anael now in 14.17 (and how long do we REALLY think it took him to find her and convince her to meet with him? Especially when the events of 14.17 take place over about 36 hours before bleeding directly into 14.18…). So this timeline that I’ve understood presupposes the gap of “several weeks” of being cooped up in the bunker to have elapsed between 14.15 and 14.16 as suddenly resolved itself into all of them willing to spend time in the bunker as a family… except for Cas, who’s on an as-yet unspecified mission.

This episode reinforces those missing scenes, through showing us the very different mission Cas is on, finally addressing the seriousness of Jack’s condition, but also paralleled through Mary’s growing suspicions of Jack that she’ll be unable to ignore by the end of the episode…

Jack even addresses this “but in that scene you didn’t see play out, this important thing happened!” IN TEXT, TO MARY:

Mary: If Sam and Dean saw what you did, they would be as worried as I am.Jack: Are you gonna tell them?Mary: You need help, we'll help you. We're your family.Jack: You can't.Mary: We care about you, Jack.

And now the things that happen offscreen have been lampshaded as being CRITICAL to understanding the whole of the story. And the divide between the two can be fatal...

14.18, Absence.

Literally, the title itself is telling us to be aware of what’s missing.

But we finally get the payoff on the “missing information” about those several weeks spent cooped up in the bunker-- Sam was literally not there. It was Dean and Cas, alone with Jack.

Sam: You know, after Maggie and the other hunters died... I just left. Just dumped Jack on Cas and left.

That happened in 14.14. The other hunters dying. But we KNOW that Sam had not left on his own at that time. He’d dragged Dean and Cas and Jack on three consecutive hunts in the aftermath of that to avoid going back to the bunker, in the run up to 14.15. THIS was the payoff of that “cooped up for weeks” comment in 14.16… because SAM hadn’t been cooped up with them. He’d dumped Jack on everyone and run off on his own after 14.15…

But this episode doesn’t stop there. It takes each character individually and pushes them through memories of the past, of Mary specifically, but those memories do so much narrative heavy lifting I can’t even begin to yell about them here. I’ll just link a post:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/184195342200/you-know-when-deans-turns-around-after-that

Wait, I found that post while looking for the one I’d set to to find, but it’s in my Narrative Negative Space tag, so yay? Bonus. This is the one I’d meant to find:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/184144189665/drsilverfish-mittensmorgul-mittensmorgul

There. My best thing from s14. And I’ll leave this episode at that.

Oh, and with the reminder that if Dean and Cas had truly still been at odds over Mary’s death, then Dean would not have brought Cas to Mary’s funeral pyre. Period.

14.19, Jack in the Box.

Aka that one we’d all figured out what the big plot thing was just by the on-the-nose nature of the title, months before it aired.

At least the drama coffin got blowed up good?

14.20, Moriah:

The most meta meta to have ever meta’d. There’s not much happening offscreen in this one aside from the entire setup and premise of the episode as a whole. Again, we’re dropped into a hunt and expected to understand the setup, the legwork that’s already been done. We learn that Dean has been in touch with Cas, but they’re investigating different avenues. We see Chuck FINALLY answer Cas’s prayer for help from 14.17, but Chuck’s idea of “help” isn’t helpful in the least.

We understand the fundamental nature of the extent of the personal little lies Sam and Dean tell each other (Thanks for that one, Jack!), and therefore are being asked to reassess which comments from their past were the full, honest truth, and which were the comfortable performance they put on to maintain their own projected self-identities.

And whoa.

It’s now 3 am, and I’ve been working on this post on and off for the last 16 hours. And I am tired, and officially out of mental steam to keep thinking about it. So I’m gonna post it. All 7700 words of it. I hope this helps... :P

#emiliaoagi #spn s14 #revenge of the subtext #the scheherazade of supernatural #the story became the story

36 notes · View notes

calligraphist-artemisia · 5 years

Text

Across Time and Space (Chapter 7)

Summary: Sequel to I’ll Take Her Place. Slav is showing off a piece of experimental equipment, when it malfunctions and blasts Katie and Keithir to another universe. At the same time, it drags Pidge and Keith over into theirs, effectively swapping places. With their fate resting in the hands of Slav, will they be able to get back home? Or are they stuck to live the rest of their lives in the wrong universe?

Also posted on AO3 and fanfiction.net under the username “kishirokitsune”.

Chapter 7

ALTEA – CASTLE OF LIONS

“We leave you all alone for one week and come back to find you've lost two paladins!”

“Welcome back, Lance,” Allura said without looking up. “Did you two have a good time in Nalquod?”

Lance crossed his arms over his chest, staring down Allura while Hunk caught up after his long sprint through the castle. Hunk looked a little winded as he came to a stop next to his husband, his brows furrowed in concern as he noted the lack of people on the bright. It was just the two of them, Allura, and Coran.

“Nalquod was great, but that's not what we're talking about right now. What's going on, Allura? You sent that message about an accident with Katie and Keithir and them being missing and something about another reality and then nothing else!” Lance barely paused for breath, and as he talked his anger drained from his voice, leaving behind frustration and fear.

Allura stepped away from the console, leaving Coran to continue without her. “I am sorry we had to call you back like that. I will admit, we've been a bit panicked and were not thinking clearly. The situation is... complicated and we're trying to keep it as quiet as we can. It wasn't something we could fully explain through a message.”

Allura took a deep breath and began to tell them everything that had transpired over the past three days, starting with the malfunction of the trans-reality extrapolator and ending with moving Pidge and Keith to one of the unused rooms so that, while they were still sharing a room, they could each have their own bed and space.

“We told Emperor Zarkon and Honerva, of course, as well as Katie's family and Travis. Everyone who has the knowledge to help is pitching in,” Allura said. “Hunk, once you've settled back in, I'll take you down where they're working. Another set of eyes will certainly be of value.”

“Anything I can do?” Lance asked.

“I could use a hand with coordinating everyone from here!” Coran piped up.

Lance looked a little discouraged.

“Pidge and Keith could use a friendly face. Someone they'll be comfortable with. I've been afraid of saying names to them, in case I mention someone who they are not on friendly terms with,” Allura said.

It was far from ideal, but Lance could admit that it sounded better than standing around on the bridge, waiting for video calls. It still rang of busywork to him. Something for him to do for the sake of having something to do, while everyone else worked on the really important stuff.

He shrugged and shoved his hands into his pockets. “Sure. I can do that.”

“Shiro will join you once Koichi is down for his nap. I think he plans on taking Keith to the training deck today. We're hoping that since it was one of Keithir's favorite places, Keith will be the same.” Allura sighed, glancing back at Coran before shaking her head and walking towards Lance and Hunk. “Pidge may want to join them, but if not, just make sure she doesn't stray out of the paladin wing. The fewer people who know about this, the better?”

“Shiro's not helping Slav?” Hunk asked, not in a manner that indicated confusion, but instead amusement.

Allura laughed gently. “No, he says that it's a matter a bit beyond his expertise, though he's willing to listen whenever I talk about it.” There was a pause as she grinned at them mischievously. “And also if he has to be in Slav's presence, he's afraid he may throw something at him.”

Lance laughed, feeling better about his role in everything, and patted Hunk on the shoulder. “Have fun talking science with Slav. I think I'm going to enjoy a nice, relaxing day with Pidge.”

Hunk made a disgruntled sound. “Are you sure you don't want to trade?”

“Sorry, babe. Not a chance.”

Lance playfully leaned in and kissed Hunk on the cheek, dancing away when his husband tried to grab him and retaliate. Allura covered her mouth to hide her giggling.

“How about I go ahead and get things back to our room, so you can get to work,” Lance suggested.

Hunk blanched. “You don't have to do that. It wouldn't be fair to make you do all of the heavy lifting. I'll help you first. Like Allura said, I should get settled in first and then I can go help.”

“It's four bags and they hover. Unless you think I'm too weak to pull them along with me?”

“No, of course not, but-!”

“Great!” Lance clapped his hands together and gave Hunk a bright smile. “Have fun, babe!”

He took off before Hunk could get in another word, mentally vowing to make it up to him later. Maybe with his free time, he could plan the Best Honeymoon Ever, since theirs had been interrupted. He could even pester Pidge for ideas! Sure, she wasn't the same as Katie, but he bet she'd have some interesting thoughts on it, all the same.

Unless she wanted to go to the training deck too. Then he was absolutely taking the chance to show off his superior shooting skills and impress them with his bayard's secondary form.

After that he could plan all he wanted.

OLKARION – CASTLE OF LIONS

Keithir had tried everything he could think of to communicate with the Red Lion. Meditation didn't work. The special headsets designed to heighten mental concentration didn't work. Begging the Red Lion for any sign that she could hear him didn't work. Sleeping in the cockpit didn't work.

He was at the end of his rope. He had been so sure that the Lions had the answers, but neither Red nor Green were willing to open up to them. Keithir was starting to think they weren't able to. Maybe the Lion-Paladin bond was completely different in that reality. After all, the others all looked confused when he and Katie tried to explain it to them.

Still, Keithir couldn't give up. He refused to. There was one last thing he could try.

He took a deep breath and knocked on Shiro's door. It slid open a moment later and Shiro greeted him, his voice coated with surprise.

“Is everything alright?”

“Nothings wrong, but I had a thought and I need your help to do it.” Keithir waited a moment to give Shiro time to respond. When he nodded, Keithir continued. “I started to think, if your Keith can pilot the Black Lion, maybe that's why Red won't respond to me. She's Lance's Lion here, not mine. If I try to communicate with the Black Lion, maybe she'll listen.”

“Are you asking for permission?” Shiro asked. “Because you don't need to. If you think that's what you need to do, then go for it.”

Keithir shook his head. “I'm asking for your help. If both of us go to her and try to make the connection, maybe that will work. I would ask Lance, but I get the impression he doesn't like me all that much.”

Shiro chuckled. “He does butt heads with Keith a lot. Sometimes to the detriment of the team, but there's still trust between them. If you asked for help, he wouldn't turn you away.”

“He'd just lord it over me,” Keithir guessed. It was what his Lance would do – had done, on the rare occasion Keithir asked for his help. And of course, the reverse was true.

“Only for a few months,” Shiro joked with an easy grin. “Hopefully you'll be home before then. Keith would have to bear the brunt of it instead.”

Keithir snorted in amusement. “I'd hate to be the cause of that.”

“Do you want to do this now? I have time,” Shiro said.

Keithir shook his head. “Kolivan asked to see me, so I shouldn't keep him waiting for much longer. Would later today be alright with you?”

“Any time you're ready.”

Keithir thanked him and walked away with a lightness to his step. Even if it didn't work, at least he knew he was trying everything he could think of. Trying was better than sitting around and listening to Slav babble on about things that didn't make sense to him.

He met up with Kolivan in one of the smaller meeting chambers, where he also found Katie waiting for him. She greeted him with a smile and a kiss.

“What's going on?” Keithir asked curiously.

“There is a mission. One which I hoped to send Keith on, but you are equally as well equipped for this. I would trust no one else,” Kolivan said.

Keithir frowned and looked to Katie in confusion. “You know about this?”

“I do,” Katie confirmed. “You should listen to what he has to say before you decide.”

What was so important that Katie thought the risk was worth it? Because it was a risk. A mission in the middle of a war. There was so much that could go wrong; too much that could go wrong.

“We have a spy stationed under Warlord Ranveig, who has reported the finding of a vial of highly unusual quintessence. Unfortunately, she no longer has access to it and says that Ranveig has used it to create a dangerous weapon. With the way things are going lately, I believe her position there is no longer safe. Your mission will be to get to her and convince her to return with you.”

“Why me? There have to be other members of the Blade who could do this,” Keithir said.

“You are the only one she will listen to.” Kolivan didn't go into a deeper explanation than that and turned to the podium next to him, passing his hand over the top to bring up a holographic image of a Galra woman with short hair and markings on her face.

For a moment, Keithir stopped breathing.

She was someone he'd only ever seen in the pictures his dad kept, neat and tidy in a small photo album. There weren't many of them – Travis said that he worried what would happen if anyone else saw them, but the few he had were cherished by them both.

Keithir swallowed and reminded himself to take a breath. “Mom's alive?” He barely heard Kolivan's response. All he could focus on was how close he was to seeing her. For the first time, he could have a conversation with her; it was a chance to get to know her and learn more about his Galra lineage.

He wouldn't have another chance.

He glanced to Katie and her understanding gaze gave him the strength he needed.

“I'll do it, but first I need to know everything you have on this base and Ranveig. The fewer surprises I face, the better,” Keithir said.

Kolivan nodded in agreement and got to work detailing all of the data he had, thanks to Krolia. Katie stayed by Keithir's side, asking questions of her own in support of her husband's choice.

It wouldn't be easy by any stretch, but Kolivan was certain they could draw Ranveig's attention elsewhere, which would leave Krolia in charge and alone in the base. It would be Keithir's best shot at getting in and out without detection. The real challenge would be convincing Krolia it was best for her to leave.

“When do I leave?” Keithir asked.

“Tonight.”

Katie wished she could go along with him. If she could pilot the Green Lion, she was sure she could have tagged along using the active camouflage, just to provide backup in case of an emergency. She was sure Green could keep her and the baby safe.

She smiled and placed her hand over her belly.

While the delivery of the news had been far from what she had planned, she was glad Keithir knew. Intentionally hiding her pregnancy from him would have taken a toll on her, and probably would have made him worry about her more than if she'd told the truth.

“No secrets,” she reminded herself of their old promise.

Katie took a deep breath and went on her way, hoping to find Hunk or Lance so she would be too distracted to constantly wonder where Keithir was or if he was in trouble. Her best bet was to start with the kitchen and broaden her search from there.

Surprisingly, neither of them were there. They also weren't in what Lance dubbed the “super cool hangout space” or in their rooms. She was sure they weren't out on a mission, but just in case, she headed towards the bridge.

“...like this.”

“I don't you don't,” Allura said, sounding tired. “But so far, all of the information he has given us has proven to be correct. I don't see why this should be any different.”

Katie stopped in her tracks just before the turn to the bridge, listening to Allura and Lance talk. She frowned, quietly moving to stand against the wall and get as close as she could without being discovered.

“But why? Why tell us any of this after he tried to kill us in the past! There has to be something we're not seeing,” Lance said persistently. “We can't trust him, Allura!”

“I don't trust him, but if Lotor is willing to give us information, then it is my duty to accept that and use it to our advantage,” Allura said, her voice calm.

“Lotor!” Katie hissed under her breath, unable to stop herself. She covered her mouth with her hand, praying they hadn't heard her, but as footsteps came towards her she knew she was busted. Katie stepped away from the wall as they turned the corner and saw her.

“Can I help you with anything, Katie?” Allura asked politely.

Cursing herself for revealing her location, Katie shook her head. “I was just looking for Lance, but it's not important if you two need to talk.”

“No. We're done here.”

Lance frowned and opened his mouth to protest, but Katie beat him to it.

“You can't trust Lotor.” She faltered slightly when Allura raised an eyebrow, recognizing a warning when she saw it. But she couldn't let it go. “I don't know what he's like here, in this reality, but if he's even a fraction similar to the Lotor I know, you can't trust him. He twists the truth to his advantage and manipulates everyone, making it hard to pin the blame solely on him. He makes you think he's helping, but it's only because he has something to gain from it.”

“He's giving us information on how to defeat the Galra. How would that be of benefit to him?” Allura asked.

“It's hard to know with him. We didn't know, right up until we were caught up in his trap,” Katie said. “He hid the Red Lion from us, and when Keithir and I got in the way of his plans, he plotted to kill us and destroy the Red Lion in one go. He didn't count on Keithir being her paladin. If not for that, I don't think we would have survived.”

Allura had nothing to say in defense of Lotor after that. “I am glad you both survived. We will be cautious and continue to double check anything he tells us, but that doesn't mean I can ignore tactical information.”

Katie bowed her head in understanding.

She hated it. Knowing that Lotor was being held somewhere in the castle. So much could go wrong with that, especially if the others were as divided as Allura and Lance on how to handle it.

Katie would have to investigate for herself.

ALTEA – CASTLE OF LIONS

They were still restrained to one room.

Well, that wasn't quite true. Allura told them they could go anywhere in the paladin wing of the castle, but all that consisted of was the kitchen, their bedrooms, and the lounge. It was nice to be able to get food on their own, but other than that there was nothing for them to do. Staying in their room felt like the safer choice.

Pidge ached to have something productive to do. To get her fingers on a keyboard or any piece of tech to tinker with. All of the visits were nice, but there was only so much company either of them could handle. Lance and Shiro dropped by around noon, and while it'd been fun to see what her friend would look like in another ten years, Pidge found herself struggling to make conversation with him. She was grateful that Lance came to see her and that he didn't take offense to her lack of desire to talk, and he'd even promised to bring a game to play the next time.

Keith's dad came by again, bringing with him a giant blue wolf, and after he was gone, Pidge's family arrived. She spent most of that hour crying from seeing them all together again, which started a chain reaction for all of them.

By the time it was just her and Keith again, all Pidge could feel was relief.

She flopped down onto her own bed with a groan and decided that moving was overrated.

“I've been thinking about something.”

Pidge mumbled into her bedding.

“Are the Lions here made from the ore of one of those comets? The whatever-reality-bending one?” Keith asked.

Pidge frowned and pushed herself up into a sitting position. “The trans-reality comet? I guess they could be. We know that at least two of them existed, so why not more?”

“What if that's our key to getting home? I mean, Voltron is the whole reason we were able to cross over into another reality and get home the last time, so can't we just do that again?”

Pidge paused to think about it. “That's more of an idea than any I've had, but last time we had to know the exact point we breached through. You and I were in two separate places when we crossed over and there's also the machine to consider.”

Keith didn't looked surprised or disappointed by what she was saying. “We'd have to form Voltron too.”

That brought up a good point. Would they be recognized by the Lions? It was something worth looking into.

“Think we can convince Shiro to let us see the Lions?” she asked.

Keith grinned at her for the first time since their arrival. “I think I can manage that.”

It wasn't much of a plan, but it was more than what they had before. Pidge thought they finally had something she could work with, and it was all thanks to Keith.

#voltron #fanfiction #kidgemas #kidge #reality swap au

18 notes · View notes

neven-ebrez · 5 years

Text

Meta Writing: "Finding balance as a television viewer and academic, a look at viewing under the narrative lens versus the psychological lens"

I’ve spoken on Supernatural’s utilization of a mirrored narrative to tell the repressed story of its main characters many times. My blog is full of these essays and discussions. As a meta writer for Supernatural, this is what I've focused on writing over the years because I found this to be where the complete “full picture” of the story of the show was to be seen. If Sam and Dean weren't openly talking about their issues then one could simply look at the monster/victim character foils within the MOTW episodes and listen to them talk where Sam and Dean either wouldn't or couldn't. If one wanted to understand the main characters and their situation better, the show practically forces one to do this. Or rather, I should say, I felt it forced me to do this. And for a long time I got used to looking at the show through this type of narrative lens, where practically everything told the story of something else. I wasn't looking at Charlie Bradbury anymore, I was looking at a narrative mirror for the issues of Sam and Dean in 9x04, where the witch symbolized codependency and Dorothy wasn’t a woman trapped by her own mechanics, but rather a sounding board for Sam and Dean trapped by their own.

I must say, it's not a terribly fun way of looking at the show, but I thought, back then, a practically necessary one. Supernatural is post modern, after all, and frequently has episodes pointing out its own function as a story. Robbie Thompson did this a lot (9x18 is forever one of my favorite episodes) and I remember someone asking Robbie about the mirrors of 8x11 on Twitter back in the day, where 8x11-8x16 represented one of the most blatant romantic coded arcs Dean and Cas has ever been given in the structure (as viewed through the "narrative lens", but I'm getting there!). The person asking Robbie what his intent with the mirror was was clearly viewing the show the way I was (with the narrative lens) so I was curious as to Robbie's answer. And when Robbie did answer, I remember being disappointed. He told the person, "That's just how I saw the story of Charlie and Glinda." This was a recognizing of the what I’m going to call the psychological lens (the surface, real life), but not the narrative one. No acknowledging of how they functioned in that arc as a narrative mirror for Dean and Cas, nothing. I felt that as a writer using such a structure it was almost his duty to at least acknowledge it. But it was like... none of them ever did. Supernatural clearly used it, hell, still uses it, but it's only ever mentioned in passing, in showrunner interviews and the like.

Probably every documented case of anyone with creative content creation control referencing it (the mirror narrative) is on this blog. Back then, I was very obsessed with validating what I was seeing in any way I could. It was like figuring out a secret, a mystery, a truth I absolutely knew to be real and then gathering as much evidence as I could to prove it because people were telling me that I was wrong and I knew I wasn't. Stuff like 9x15 even bent characterization to cater to it, to sometimes the complete confusion of the actors. And so that's what meta became to me. Using the narrative lens I viewed and wrote on the narrative structure at length, writing standalone essays on the matter, discussing it in threads and speculating using the structure to extrapolate how likely certain plotlines were. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong, but usually not about the big stuff, the stuff a season was building towards. The longer I studied the show the better the better I got at recognizing its patterns of repeat. And for minds like mine, with autism, which are best suited for pattern, these patterns just come so naturally. For me Supernatural is honestly so predictable, for many reasons, the most of damning of which is right in the structure and its inability to go past a certain point.

I say this word a lot, "structure". My family hates it. What I really mean is its overall design. When I talk about the structure of a car I'm talking about how it looks: the color, the features, the durability, the points of safety, whether it drives smoothly or not. Things like that. When I talk about the structure of a story I'm talking about how it looks as well: how it is paced, the significance of the characters involved and whether they and the themes involved within the story itself "teach" the main characters anything, what relationships are formed and how they transform each individual character, (and for visual mediums) the overall visual presentation of light/color, how the setting visually informs what the characters are doing or saying, what the characters are designed to learn through the show pointing out such steps in various ways and then cleanly implementing traditional arcs that change them in some way (usually to betterment, but not always). All this is structure, a story's design. Visual mediums like theatre and television have an obvious visual element meant to be incorporated, designed to support (and not work in place of) the story being told. Analyzing a book is not the same thing as analyzing a television show. Analyzing a television show is much, much more complicated. Books contain one author and one editor (usually). Intent and meaningful storycraft is usually easy to decipher. If design in detail matters, the author provides that information. Television, on the other hand, involves hundreds of people refining and creating on a tight deadline. This makes deciphering meaningful story intent particularly tricky.

Discussing the structure, the story telling elements, using that knowledge to speculate or write essays giving a reading of the text (what the term “meta” generally refers to) is what we'd call viewing the show through a "narrative lens", or rather, in the case of television, a "television lens". It's when you watch the story and realize that you are not looking at real life. This is easier for something like cartoons (moreso when humans are completely absent), but a little harder for the brain to actively distinguish when looking at something that could *almost be real* (as in, live action people in a familiar setting). Understanding how fictional rules are different from real life is only half the story though because real life must be accounted for in visual storytelling. I’ll explain what I mean because I’m not talking about behind the scenes stuff. Since being sent an ask about the current state of the meta community (which I still occasionally write for but don’t personally follow anymore aside from following my friends @mittensmorgul and @elizabethrobertajones) I’ve been thinking about this a lot. The fact that we’ve lost a lot of voices over the years as a community of narrative academics is, I think, the root of the challenge currently facing the meta community. With so many lost voices and angles there's a significant sort of echo chamber that begins when you get people together that all view the show through the same lens against a lack of diverse readings. In this case, the narrative lens and the Destiel reading. You see, the problem is the show, as it exists now, isn't always so rigidly written through the narrative lens like it was in Carver era, it's now written primarily through the real life lens. I find this to be especially true in Dabb era showrunning.

Regarding the meta writing community and the fandom's two main shipping sides, there’s also a huge disconnect, fostered over YEARS of discord in acknowledging subtext designed by writers for both factions, both readings, and, of course, the arguments over intent (which is usually unknowable unless a public record is made and even then a lot of academics ascribe to “Death of the Author”, particularly given the collaborative nature of television production, so...). Wincest subtext gets scoffed at or ignored, derided for not standing a chance at being canon by the Destiel side and the Wincest side often mocks the Destiel side in such a profound way (pun intended) as to suggest (or outright say) the subtext isn’t even there at all to mean anything in the first place (which is ridiculous). Again and again I also see (and it's never really worded this way) a disconnect over the lens the show is viewed with: narrative (televison) vs psychological (real life). The most major arguments I see are between fans watching for the Wincest reading and using the psychological lens versus fans watching for the Destiel reading and using the narrative lens.

There’s rarely any common ground between these two distinct groups, with the Wincest psychological viewers acting more as critics than providing anything resembling essays of their own. Maybe they are out there. I haven’t seen them. Most “good” Wincest meta died out relatively early. We, as a viewing and academic community, are a house divided in so, so many ways, even on each side of the chasm. Maybe I have no right to make this post. I don’t know. I don't like things that treat fandom like it's something to be picked apart and examined. This kind of examination makes me... uncomfortable. I keep thinking about that ask the other day asking me what is going on in the meta community though. So I'm going to try and tackle it. The fact is... we are not a whole and we are not supposed to be. That’s the point. Getting a single exact read off any text, let alone getting a group of people on the same page to watch with the same lens, is practically impossible. But lately the divide and inbalance has gotten to be so bad that we aren’t even talking to one another anymore, not really. We are all just yelling a lot of misunderstandings back and forth. So... what is happening to the meta community? I'm going to try and talk about it.

Okay. So I've explained what structure is and what a lens is. So now I'm going to talk about balance because the current issue plaguing the meta community is a lack of voices discussing and viewing things in balanced way. And I'm going to focus on ship related meta writing because let's face it, that's where a lot of the most passionate arguing is. Since meta is usually written with a bias for a certain reading we most often get four distinct readings:

A --The Narrative lens: Wincest

B --The Narrative lens: Destiel

C --The Psychological lens: Wincest

D --The Psychological lens: Destiel

Post S12 when Dabb era started I personally made the decision to switch from writing/watching through B to D instead. A narrative lens focuses on things like mirroring, set design, character arc reading. A psychological lens focuses on things like characterization (usually with a focus on where a character is and not how they are designed to change), seeing the characters as real people, rather than narrative constructs. Lynn from Fangasm is a good example here and I don’t think she’d mind me mentioning her here. Lynn, as a psychologist by trade and J2 fan by choice, views the show through a Wincest psychological reading, in total opposite from me in Carver era Supernatural, viewing with a narrative Destiel lens. We disagreed on a lot on stuff as you can imagine. I read her from time to time but she didn’t read me. Now, sometimes viewing one lens too much can make you blind to other things (not limited to readings). Frequently she’d hate and not understand things that I felt were explained perfectly as viewed through my lens. It's the difference in seeing Charlie Bradbury personally go through some stuff vs seeing Sam and Dean's issues elaborated on in the complex abstract. However, for me, post S11 I found myself way too stuck in the narrative lens. I felt I wasn't even seeing or experiencing the show the way it was designed anymore. And I wasn't. And being that Supernatural is part of my job I knew I had to reorient myself.

In Dabb era in particular, there's text and communication between the characters, which means that a narrative lens isn't strictly needed for viewing anymore. When S12 was airing I had the absolute pleasure of meeting Robert Berens and talking to him at length about meta. My friends @ibelieveinthelittletreetopper and @nicky36 were with me and the post is on my blog somewhere. Berens is my absolute favorite writer for the show. I talked to him about the narrative lens and how stuff like what he wrote about Mary leaving in 12x03 lost its emotional resonance with me because I knew she was leaving for contractual reasons, rather than general characterization ones. It was a problem with me, rather than a problem with the writing itself. It's watching a puppet show and instead of paying attention to the story, staring at the strings the whole time. I knew I had to learn to stop that even before talking about it to anyone. We also talked about 9x06, which was my favorite S9 episode as a Cas fan! I remember I talked about the season's theme of consent issues and I mentioned something from the divine reviews I wrote about a consent reference 9x06 made through a pop culture reference about the sex practices this random island had. He wrote the episode and chose this island to reference. I thought surely he knew what I was talking about. I was complimenting his cleverness, after all. And I'll never forget what he said to me: "You know, meta writers are often far more clever than the writers are themselves." It means we, as pattern seekers to themes (in the case of S9, consent themes), can pick out any kind of pattern if we are simply looking hard enough for it. And some things that we think are intentional, are simply coincidental, even within the written screenplay. After talking to Robert Berens that day I never looked at meta writing the same way again and began to work towards switching my viewing lens.

That's not to say viewing the show through the narrative lens is bad, or wrong. It's valid and a fucking important way to view the show, but equally important is realizing that sometimes you need to take a step back and consider other readings and lenses, too. So I stopped focusing on pop culture references and their thematic associations. I stopped looking at the set design as a primary storytelling point and regaled it to a secondary support point. I stopped looking at who Dean and Cas were mirroring and started looking at what they themselves were actually saying to each other, doing together. I realized that all the mirrors in the world didn’t matter if Dean and Cas weren’t actually talking to one another and physically in the same scenes together. All the romantic coding in the world through the visual presentation and mirror structure would not take the place of real life escalation. And I found looking at it and talking of the show in this manner, was getting beyond exhausting, especially when I ended up saying the same thing over and over. Carver era made the narrative lens necessary to view Destiel, while Dabb era has made it practically irrelevant. Even now I can still see these storytelling elements and comment on them in passing but mostly for me they started working like an overlay in tandem. And it provided something I hadn't had in a lot time watching: clarity.

Concerning mirroring, I've seen that often the Cas!fan Destiel side focuses too much on this (like I used to) through the narrative lens because Misha isn’t a lead therefore Cas isn’t in every episode so he often exists in this narrative space within the mirrored structure of the show (also called us seeing Destiel parallels). Through the continued use of the mirrored narrative, the show makes it so Cas fans (who watch primarily for Cas) must look for him there when he’s not physically present in the episode, desperately so in some cases. A Wincest reading, however, has the benefit of J2 being leads and present in every episode, with the reading enjoying touchstone psychology updates/deepening usually in every episode (though yes, Sam/Dean scenes have been cut drastically this year because of contractual reasons). Mirrors for the brothers (good and bad) are easily ignored completely (unless extremely heavy handed) because they are physically there for each other in every episode. Because of this priority watching divide (and handicap on the Cas fan’s side) I believe this has lead some meta writers to focusing too heavily on this element of Supernatural’s storytelling (or otherwise the symbolic narrative), to the point they sometimes even focus on it over Cas’ physical presence without really realizing it. And other fans do the opposite and/or ridicule them. And both types of fans and focuses are what I'd call being "out of balance".

On the flip side of discussing the impracticality of viewing primarily through a narrative lens, I'm going to also discuss how it's impossible to view solely through a psychological one, like so many “antis” in Supernatural fandom do. How many times have we heard, "You are disrespecting the character's sexuality by doing your analysis! Dean says he's straight so you must accept he is!"? I know I've seen it a lot. It's heavy on the fans that favor a Wincest reading through a psychological lens. This type of argument treats the character, Dean in this case, as REAL, instead of a fictional construct subject to other mechanics within storytelling. This is because the fan is viewing the show primary through a psychological lens and thinks the same ethnics of real life people apply to fictional constructs such as Dean Winchester. This is simply not true. You don’t judge a real life person’s sexuality based on the colors of their shirt! What’s wrong with you? It is quite impossible to disrespect a fictional character. As a viewer/academic, you can only really feel your understanding of them is being disrespected. In the end, Dean is still very much a fictional construct and thus, is not subjected to being viewed strictly under a psychological lens especially since a medium of storytelling like television and screenplay use visual elements and other narrative devices to also tell the story of the character.

Mel sent me several old posts with some examples. In real life the mailman damaging my mail and delivering it late one day isn’t symbolic of my messed up internal issues as a person. It’s just a crap thing that merely happened one day (even if I muse it feels like my own personal symbolism). I, unlike Dean, also don’t put on the same shirt every time I’m about to make a bad decision. When May rolls around I don't worry about the world maybe coming to an end each year, but Sam and Dean probably dread it. When I decorate and paint my walls I'm looking to create a certain pleasing aesthetic for the sake of it being pleasing, not for the sake of displaying the current problems plaguing my inner psyche. Or maybe some people do this to some degree, idk. Mostly, no.

Supernatural does indeed put storytelling clues in the wallpaper, but usually the intention is not as far reaching as some people conclude. And it’s in it’s own created language. Regardless, you can’t write a story with wallpaper alone. At most, you can simply look at it and guess something small ahead of time (like hourglasses signifying time travel). I'll use 11x06 as an example. In this scene we have a demonic liar getting interrogated in a room with Gabriel’s wallpaper from Changing Channels because the demon is trying to trick Sam and Dean into releasing him and saving his meatsuit instead of kill him (since Carver realized he needed to refocus the Winchesters onto saving people after S10, which, idk, maybe he realized how heartless they were seemingly becoming by choosing each other over the world so much, anyway...). Anyway. In 5x08 Gabriel used that entire episode to trick and trap Sam and Dean in a fabrication. Trick and lies. There’s your thematic tie in. I remember some people just immediately saw that wallpaper and thought it meant Gabriel was coming back when instead it was a simple "beware of trickery" thematic callback. Under the show’s silent storytelling language when this wallpaper is used, it means we are being lied to and tricked. This is all the wallpaper is meant to invoke. Sam immediately realizes this in the same scene. The silent storytelling here is just a fraction ahead of the textual storytelling. And that’s what silent storytelling is designed to do. Looking at wallpaper for clues on character development is a whole different analysis problem because Supernatural, by very much all appearances, want Sam and Dean to develop as slowly and as little as possible because the bulk of fans watch for their issues, not to the resolution thereof. The show doesn’t know what Sam, Dean, and Cas look like past a certain point of development and they are wholly uninterested in exploring that.

But back to wallpaper, interpretation, and 11x06.

A request for this wallpaper was probably not in the script. Screenplay usually puts as little detail into the script as possible because they simply trust Jerry Wanek and his design team to do their jobs (and Jerry, in fact, usually disregards certain script directions in favor of his own ideas as better symbolically worked into the show). AU!Michael’s church was originally a concrete bunker and Billie’s minimalistic fate library in 13x05 was originally a country cottage. Jerry is given extreme leeway on SPN (with I think only like 6 of his decisions have ever been vetoed he told us), but only because he’s so in sync with the show’s thematic presentation. I’m going off topic again because I’m supposed to be talking about fandom. Sorry. Back to 11x06 (again). Gabriel is such a fan favorite, however, that this (look out for tricks) was not the basic thematic message a lot of fans took away. No, the message they took away was Gabriel was probably coming back soon. I remember speculation continued about that for weeks. When at the time there were absolutely no plans for that during production. This reading, I can say with confidence, was absolutely unaccounted for. Jerry Wanek’s whole department is quite literally kept in the dark about future storylines. He’s told me this himself. By the time production for an episode rolls around they have a few scripts ahead maybe, nothing more. This is why Jerry was confused as hell about Asmodeus being a shape shifter in S13, because he didn’t know Gabriel was definitely coming back and that Asmodeus was siphoning Gabe’s powers. Poor Jerry just thought Buckleming was just butchering the canon for fun (I mean... this does happen so...). If there’s an intentional visual motif present, it either draws on some simple visual theme from earlier (tricks and 5x08 vs 11x06) or it’s part of the language of the show as written in the screenplay. It is very much something Supernatural does. Just not in such a complicated way, and one that definitely doesn’t conform to real life.

Real life ≠ Fiction and Fiction ≠ Real life

Do we see yet the limitations of relying too heavily on one lens over the other when viewing and analyzing media? How staring at the wallpaper can blind you to your psychological understanding of the characters, and how likewise, thinking of the characters as real people can just as well blind you to what the story is trying to tell you using a complete framework as a thoughtful examination of human expression and experience? You have to see it all and all at the same time to get a good picture. If you are going to write about the show then somewhere you must find balance or risk going blind. Television, most of the time is about creating stories that feel real, fourth wall breaks aside. The average television viewer is honestly not sitting there seeing Charlie Bradbury as Dean and Cas', Sam and Dean’s issues or whatever. They see her simply as Sam and Dean's nerdy little red headed friend who is coming to help them out with something. Writers often write through the narrative lens, but realize that most people watch through the "real life" one.

This psychological lens is not only accounted for, but it is generally catered to all of the time. Significant storytelling is therefore always in the psychological lens because the truth is television rarely wants you sitting there figuring out futrue storylines. It operates on you wanting to WATCH to see what’s next. They hate fans like me who can guess major plot points ahead of time. The truth is they want you to suspect certain things, but not expect them. The difference is a bit complicated and I extracted my discussion of speculation based on structure out of this post for cohesion. I hopefully make a separate post on it because I think I pretty much got the S14 finale figured out at this point. As much as I love, LOVE and have written on the narrative lens, it is not how the show delivers its primary narrative, especially here in Dabb era.

Go through and rewatch S8-S10 of Castiel (or better yet, Dean/Cas) only scenes and really look at what the show is giving itself. Then look at the difference in S11-S14, paying close attention to the difference in S9 over S14. For those immersed in the subtextual and mirror narratives with Destiel, this is an extremely good exercise, especially if you are someone who really believes or hopes the show will (eventually) convert the subtext into undeniable romantic text at any point (hint: Cas and Dean have to be physically together in scenes in a way that allows for escalation). Note that I don’t say canon here for a reason. Based on compounded narrative character mirrors (meaning mirrors repeated at least three times by various writers and can be deemed "significant" because they are witnessed by either Dean or Cas, though lbr usually Dean because we most often get these in the physical absence of Cas in an episode) and subtext (used to compare and explain Dean and Cas’ feelings towards one another), Destiel is already subtextually canon. Hell, without the mirrors, it’s this almost through romantic tropes alone. Supernatural is way past something like Korrasami, that got declared canon through subtext, mirroring, and Word of Gay. Destiel has honestly been way past this point for a long ass time, just like Dean being a canon drug user.

Both things are subtextually canon through different visual/dialogue/mirroring storytelling elements, but I'd consider each canon nonetheless, yet still easily ignored/misunderstood due to various degrees of disbelief or ignorance, usually based in a gap of the viewer’s understanding as informed by their own experiences and/or a lack of understanding concerning how television writing works differently from real life experiences of the same nature. The term "psuedocanon" is something I adopted back in S10 (I believe it was) to talk about the exact undeniable/deniable nature of Destiel within the split academic writing/viewing community. There’s no right or wrong about something being subtextually canon and television writing accounts for this viewing disparity in every significant narrative. Read that, then read it again because it’s so often the core of so many fandom arguments to the point I wanna rip my hair out. Right now, Destiel is not a significant narrative in the show. It’s not an obvious plotline. It’s what we’d call a secondary plotline, yet one that often drives action (usually in the form of Dean and/or Cas moping around in various ways). You don’t really need text of either (not the nature of Dean and Cas’ relationship nor the true nature of Dean’s relationship to drugs) to watch and understand the show on the primary surface level, well... except lately when the show points out how Sam doesn’t understand certain things between Dean and Cas (13x03, 14x12) but even then the show seems content to let us be just as oblivious as Sam there.

If I’m going to make a comparison here, the show is content with you selling you a car, but it is also content with you not completely understanding whether or not it has cruise control even as an option. The important thing is that you understand they are selling you a car. Personally I really want and need cruise control, but it’s not a deal breaker for me like it could be for some.

Now, we don't have Word of Gay like Korrasami, but I think... I think a lot of people need to stop trying to prove themselves right about Destiel being subtextually canon through continuously, in a way that denotes hyperfocus, pointing out the new ways in which it is by discussing the show mostly (or even solely) through the narrative lens. I honestly believe we, as a community, have written enough on it over the years. It feels... exhaustive at this point. Meanwhile, the psychological lens is right there and, as I can attest, helps keep your analysis' merits grounded in a way that is more easily explained and personally examined. The future of Destiel lies there. I don't think there are many of us out here writing on the nature of the Destiel narrative that are doing it because it's popular anymore. If we are still writing on it and have been for a while, it's because we genuinely care and we find it fun. That or we are frustrated. For me, it’s a little of both. When meta used to be written, back when queer reading and codings stayed in the subtext, there wasn't all this pressure being put on meta writers about possibly leading people on. This post by @bakasara from back in the day perfectly sums up the situation we, as a community, keep finding ourselves in, only now the situation seems worse. Since these storylines never got text, the fact that they wouldn't was a given. Now that the television landscape has changed, and Supernatural still remains, with one reading (Destiel) having a chance of going canon over the other (Wincest), the meta writing community of the show is in a particularly interesting place in fandom history where apparently meta writers can be blamed for somehow leading fans on in place of the narrative itself doing this.

I used to think this was wholly rubbish, but when you have meta writers ascribing writer intent to a product that deals with hundreds of individual intents, some of which have nothing to do with the writing's main intent, in a way that denotes the meta writer somehow knows best, then we do have a genuine problem. I feel like I’ve been here long enough and studied this fandom and this text to such a degree that I can say that. I don't personally know of any meta writer who does this, whether they are hyperfocused on viewing the show through the narrative lens or not. Doesn’t matter. I've already said I don't read other meta writers anymore since meta writing as an art form of expression made for enjoyment has shifted beyond my tastes from writing academic essays on a reading into this kind of weird meta writing subset that either simply tags discussions (anyone’s opinion post) as "meta" or otherwise uses this weird analysis/speculation blend in a way that is not clearly separated and/or defined. Just because I don't follow it, doesn't mean those voices aren't out there. I think they probably are.

And it's no secret that I personally lament what the meta writing community has become, even though it still imo has its essay gems. There are simply a lot of people inexperienced in many things concerning the analysis of media and they are out there telling people that certain things matter that don't and that certain things are right that aren't. These I have seen. I remember back in S10 having to correct someone that thought the title of "Story Editor" meant that another writer could edit a script they didn't write. Television writing isn't like a school yearbook staff. I don't remember who they were. But I do remember thinking, "Dear LORD, this person is talking like they know something when they have NO CLUE! And what's worse, people are believing it!" The “story editor” title is literally a pay grade distinction on Supernatural. I think most people would be shocked to know Supernatural doesn't even have a traditional writers room. The writers get together a few times a year and that's IT. There’s some collaborate efforts made among themselves but it's not like episode meetings among the whole staff are made. They aren't. They have a certain piece to write and they write it. The writer's room is a dictatorship overall.

So to sum up... While yes, language and knowledge among certain meta writers is a problem, there's also a growing problem with how different readings are coming to depend too much on a single viewing lens. None of that invalidates any of the meta being written if it is what can actually be classified as meta. We need to stop associating discussion/speculation with meta across the board. If we want people to stop speculating intent over possible future relationships using meta, then say that. People won’t do it, but say it like this, I beg you. To this hope, I feel like I might as well be talking to a wall on this point. And like I said earlier, many voices have been lost. And for that, there's really nothing we as a community can do at this point. Those people are pissed, bitter, or have been driven away at this point. When I first joined the meta writing community in S8 we were very diverse, and now we simply are not. And I wrote this not to sound like a policing or patronizing wake up call to anyone. I fucking love meta writing. It’s important. I was asked what was happening in the meta community. Here I attempted to answer that in a general way. I tried very hard to talk about my own experiences writing meta, how I viewed it, how I saw the community on tumblr as it started and how I feel it has since irrevocably changed. Meta is supposed to be fun, providing a certain point of view, nothing more. By merit, it can't promise anything and shouldn't be confused with speculation. In my next segment I'm going to discuss speculation, how writing is designed to create suspicion and not expectation.

Thanks for reading and a special shout out to @justanotheridijiton who had to view this meta in its raw unreadable form and who encouraged me to rewrite it and publish it despite my initial desire to write all this out for myself, then just delete it.

#meta writing #zerbe discusses things #long post for ts #the narrative lens #the psychological lens

42 notes · View notes

fuckblizzardbearlover · 6 years

Text

Pink Diamond And Why You are Objectively Wrong

Why anti pink diamond naysayers are wrong under the cut

The problem is that all the negative propaganda i’ve seen about Rose (yall should stop Dead-naming her probably) is that its all based on nothing.

Evidence doesnt matter only wild speculation? You want a character to be bad so thats all you see

the apparent philosophy is that Rose should have used her authority to try to stop the colonization. The problem is that there was no evidence she didnt. People spent WEEKS talking about it. We dont know jack squat about homeworld other than what the Crystal Gems have told Steven, what we saw in the Trial and what we’ve heard Peridot say. There was no reason after we found that out to think that “Pink Diamond” DIDNT do everything she could. People made the Assumption and went about that.

Expecting a single person to completely overthrow society is nuts but not as nuts as assuming people are bad until proven otherwise

Yet after learning she did some people still arent satisfied. Saying that she should have openly rebelled....Despite NO evidence that could ever work.

See we dont know anything really about gem society, we dont know how diamond Authority works, how the armies are structured, how Big the empire is. We dont KNOW. But instead of deciding to give the benefit of the doubt, they are deciding to assume the worst. Thats a choice and a baseless one at that.

Thats just...not how people work. Most people are good. even people supporting horrible things can be good, and their problem is that they’ve been misled by misinformation, by propoganda, were raised wrong.

You give people the benefit of the doubt, and only stop when they have PROVEN to not show any progress and no intention of ever trying to change.

The problem is we DO know some things.

Its safe to assume that in a kids show that good people are good even if they make mistakes even bad ones

We know that Rebecca Sugar is allegedly a good person, as are the developers of the show. We know that its a cartoon show meant for kids, and so its suppose to have a positive message.

So in the light of a lack of information one would assume that since Rose is a GOOD character that she tried everything she could think of.

Just ask Princess Leia why a single woman cant save the galaxy

And we DO have info on why an open rebellion wouldnt work. We DO know that their empire is galactic, that hundreds of worlds of gems are out there, that its pretty easy for even a fusion like Alexandrite to be outclassed by a mere two gems, that they have weapons to destabalize the forms of gems. We DO know they have instantaneous transportation (Galactic Warps). We have every reason and mountains of evidence that a full galactic war with Earth would have been won easily by homeworld.

We DO know that any gem seen as ‘unfit’ whether they came out wrong or not doing their job has a high chance of being shattered and harvested (i’.e. broken, and their life sucked out killing them. because remember shattering isnt killing its shattering. HARVESTING would kill a gem).

With these two important pieces of information we can make the SAFE assumption with no wild mass guessing that any Open war with homeworld that resulted in the full brunt of Homeworlds military power would have easily overpowered the gems. That the colonization which based on We’re all falling apart, happens with minimal interaction from a Diamond, would have continued, all life including the ancestors of the current 8 billion humans would have been killed. And every gem on the planet, whether a loyalist, P.D.’s army or Crystal gem would have been murdered and their bodies used to fuel Loyal gems.

“but Pink Diamond could have fought till the end, used her army...”

Could she? where is the evidence. She wanted to stop the gem way of life, stop the colony and the other Diamonds just thought she was being lazy. She didnt want to kill human cities and the Diamonds thought she was just lazy. Gems like Peridot or Agate’s dont even doubt their way of life and understand what any other is. they are sheltered to the point they dont know what weather is. If P.D. gave the order to stop colonization would her armies just laugh at her saying “oh those Diamonds are so funny!”? We know from that same episode that Diamonds dont even interact with the troops, she was expected to not even step foot on earth. allegedly spending the last thousand years stuck on the moon base giving commands through a computer. So we can assume that colonization is fairly automated with gems knowing what their general purpose is, obeying the next higher up with Diamonds being mostly a figure head answering questions that confuse their underlings like “do we go ahead and murder all these people?” or what structures to build.

If open war did start and she actually fought homeworld from earth....does she even have any space ships? she had 1 kindergarden worth of Amethysts vs the entire homeworlds. is 100,000 to 1 good odds?

“well maybe the entirety of the Army wouldnt be brought to bare”.

THERE ARE LITERALLY ONLY 4 PEOPLE IN THE GALAXY WHOS LIFE MATTERS AND 1 OF THEM REBELS AND YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO JUST LET HER?

A DIAMOND, the ONLY entity in homeworld whos life is valued? Openly rebelling against gem society? You dont think that would have got their attention? we saw from the other episodes that they see her as a stupid lazy child whos SUPPOSE to be a galactic commander. They didnt listen to her because they thought she needed to learn how to completely obliterate a planet on her own like a Diamond is suppose to. They’ve repeatedly shown that not only do they not value organic life they dont value any life but a diamonds. The concept of destroying their way of life to protect some easily harvested gems and easily squished bloody pulps of humanoids would be seen as some weird crazy idiot thing the Kid Diamond was doing. From the Evidence of the well documented lack of care for life we know homeworld has, and the Evidence of how the Diamonds view P.D. we can extrapolate that they might do something like Either blow up Earth and “start over” but maybe with supervision, or just automate the construction and “ground’ P.D. while she got reeducated and given another colony in a few thousand years..

BUT DESPITE ALL THIS EVIDENCE WE STILL DONT KNOW BECAUSE WE BARELY KNOW JACK SQUAT ABOUT GEM SOCIETY

so we dont know For sure if all this evidence points to the proper conclusion. My point is that we Dont know what could have happened and what options they had, but we DO know the tone of the show, intent of the author so its safe to say even if Rose didnt magically know the perfect way to rebel that she tried everything she could think of. saying she should have done this or done that is like saying “X war would have ended sooner if the allies had just magically known that these bases up here were working off a skeleton crew and a blitzkrieg would have easily broken through to the capital”

So yes if We Dont know the Details, but you Still Assume the Worst, then Its Your Own Fault and has nothing to do with the story. I saw someone post about how we got a non reaction from Greg...but...why would we? Rose was a hero, it doesnt matter to him if in some war that took place a thousand year before his greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat grandparents were born the rebel leader USED to be one of the homeworld leaders.

the reason this person was mad was because they extrapolated despite no evidence that P.D. did something wrong, because Allegedly (based on no evidence) she could have rebelled in a better way (using “Baby’s First Rebellion handbook, no doubt”). OF COURSE GREG DIDNT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, he already knew she fought a war to save earth and she won and Earth is saved. The outrage over this is artificial, fake and has no basis in fact!

So yes like i said twice already we dont have all the details and its wrong to assume the worst....

EXCEPT

We do have SOME Details, and not the ones i just listed. We have evidence that what Rose did was good because of what happened.

We DONT know if more gems could be saved, we DONT know if the war could have been ended early, we DONT know whether or not open war would have worked.

But we DO know She wanted to scare the gems off first, she wanted to save earth without a SINGLE person getting hurt, not one human, not one gem. Yes its apparently traumatic to get Poofed otherwise Saphire wouldnt have refered to it as a sacrifice, however we know its ultimately Harmless. Obviously Roses plan was to make the Colony not worth it. But because the Diamonds are shitty people and thought Pink was just being lazy it didnt work and so things had to escalate

We ALSO know that Blue Diamond arrived to oversee the end of the rebellion. Seeing as Pink wasnt even allowed to go onto her own planet it seems safe to assume troop deployment was based on Blues command, so peoples conspiracy that Pink sent out her own troops to fight the crystal gems is baseless with evidence against.

There isnt enough information to know whether P.D.’s plan was a sound one but we KNOW that P.D. was the closest to the other diamonds, if they didnt show enough love to Pink to convince her she mattered it was the Diamonds Fault not Pinks, for not picking up love where none existed. And we can assume based on her characterization that if she knew that the Diamonds would retaliate with evil in their hearts, rather than just leave out of disappointment, she WOULDNT have done that. Again blame the person who fires the bullet, not the person who denied the gunman’s feelings. stop blaming the victim.

And we DO know that Earth was saved. As i said i think there is a high possiblity Earth would be obliterated if Pink rebelled. Essentially the child doesnt want to shoot their dog, so the parents do it for them. But we DONT know. But we DO know that Rose’s decision lead to saving literally billions of lives.

And we DO know that not a single gem life was lost. yes its tragic that many gems were corrupted, but we know based on centipeedle they can be made to be happy and are in peace in their bubbles till they can be cured, And despite thousands of years of torture, the gem shards are now at piece, and may be able to live a fulfilling life in the future as a fusion. We know based on all evidence that a broken gem is still alive, just disoriented from having its body not attatched. So the only lives lost were whatever humans fought for their freedom, and a few thousand gems were critically injured. I’d say a few thousand casualties is a small price to pay in any war.

We DO know that the Crystal Gems legitimately thought they were safe on earth, thought all dead, As we learned in “alternate ending” that Rose didnt even WANT steven she just wanted to have a child and have them grow up. No magical gem destiny. We DO know that Earth is safe and in good hands. And there is a possibility that even all the gems who were shattered may one day be happy again.

We DONT know what could have happened if Pink openly rebelled. But the only way to be ‘better” is things lead to a few more crystal gems being unshattered. but it also might have meant millions dead.

We DO know that her decision worked out for the best. Stevens happy, Gregs, happy, Pearl is happy, Garnet is happy, Peridot is Happy, offcolors can migrate to earth, corrupted gems can achieve happyness despite their disability, and shattered gems can find piece

So Stop going out of your way to ruin this for yourselves and being angry

#su spoilers #steven universe spoilers #steven universe #pink diamond #rose quartz #pearl #garnet #rebecca sugar #crewniverse #discourse #negativity #su critical #anti negativity #anti edgelord

38 notes · View notes

sophia-helix · 6 years

Note

I know you ship Yuzuvier but what do you think of Yuzu and Zhenya Medvedeva? There’s so many videos/pics of them out there and he seems to really respect her and like her - he normally mostly interacts with other guys so it makes me wonder...

I ship Yuzuvier fictionally, just to clarify! I don’t really like to speculate on what romantic feelings people might actually have for each other, but their friendship always seems very sweet (and I’m still SO sorry for Zhenya and not being able to take gold).

I have enough asks now I’m just going to answer multiple ones from different anons in the same post…

I’m a new fan of yuzu and I’m rlly confused on yuzu and Javier’s friendship bc everyone’s been saying how it’s one sided or something? is it ok if you explain to me bc I thought they have a genuine friendship Or is there like beef that’s v lowkey¿?

There’s nothing really bad going on…in the past they’ve been very overtly friendly and affectionate in competitions, but less so in the last couple seasons, and Javi’s given quotes to the effect that they’re friendly but not particularly close and their relationship has changed over time. To me, it seems like a natural progression as they got older and their lives/careers more complicated. It appearing one-sided is, I think, mostly due to Javi always getting asked pointed questions about Yuzu!

While we’re on the subject of extrapolating from (what little) we see/read, what do you think about Yuzuru’s love life (or lack thereof)? There seems to be a lot of pressure on young JP idols (and he kind of has this status besides being an athlete) not to date. Do you think he hasn’t been able to date or even hook up, if only because of the risk of it being discovered and blown up by the media? If so, I can imagine it must be frustrating. And what do you think his sexual orientation is?

Honestly….I feel weird answering any of those questions outside of a fictional context. I have some ideas but right now he seems to be very focused on his career, and he’s still so young at 23, that it’s hard to see him as anything but a figure like Prince or Bowie, uncategorizable and with universal appeal. (I do imagine that dating anyone would present huge difficulties in Japan, with the press there.)

Hi! Same anon who sent the 4p ask. Just hoping new people don’t misunderstand and think they hate each other or something with all the interviews :) There’s always a line between RL and RPF, and it’s soo hard to differentiate sometimes T_T (trust me I know haha longtime fandom participant). Just hoping that people have more hope for the two of them (in terms of being friends - sadly pretty sure that theyre both straight HAHA)

Yeah, that was really the point of all my posts the last few days. I don’t think they hate each other, I don’t think they’re friends outside of skating — I think they have a tough but good working relationship that’s actually pretty special and unique in sports, and I’m happy they’ve made it work and each been successful, and I enjoy watching them have fun together when they feel comfortable enough to do so.

#asks #javier fernandez #yuzuru hanyu #yuzuvier

22 notes · View notes

oh-mother-of-darkness · 7 years

Note

What was wrong with the annual people ( some Jason fans) are saying it was pretty good?

This is a fairly complicated issue of context and characterization, so I’m going to do my best to answer as fully as possible.

As a single event, the annual is no better or worse than I would have expected, but put into the proper context, it becomes pretty infuriating. To understand that context, we’re going to have to go back to 2011, the beginning of the n52.

A brief recap: We are currently living in a comic renaissance, but back in 2011, comic sales in general were low. DC responded to the loss of profit by rebooting its entire universe, hoping that the reboot would simplify the timeline and make it more accessible for new readers. The resulting universe, the New 52, crashed and burned by 2015 for a variety of reasons, some of which we’re about to address.

At the very beginning of the n52, all the titles got an issue #0 which either restated or rewrote the origin stories of the characters. The relevant titles for this discussion are Red Hood and the Outlaws and Teen Titans, which deal with Jason and Tim respectively. Both #0 issues were written by the author of the annual that came out today, Scott Lobdell. That’s the important bit.

Lobdell rewrote both backstories, meaning that Jason and Tim have different origins in the n52 than they did before 2011.

A quick summary of Jason’s (post-flashpoint) origin story (1985-2011): Both Jason’s father and adoptive mother died, leaving him to fend for himself on the streets. As part of the “fending for himself” thing, Jason tried to steal the wheels off of the batmobile, but Bruce caught him, temporarily sent him to boarding school, fostered him, and then adopted him as his son. While he was living with Bruce, Jason became the second Robin.

In 1986, during an arc called A Death in the Family, Jason discovered that his birth mother was still alive. His attempt to find her led to a series of events that ended with Jason’s death at the hands of the Joker.

A brief summary of Lobdell’s re-write: Jason’s father and mother (the birth and adoptive mothers conflated) died. He met Bruce while he was trying to steal prescription drugs from Leslie’s clinic. Bruce fostered him until Jason discovered that his mother, who he thought had died of a drug overdose, was still alive. His attempt to find her led to a series of events that ended with Jason’s death at the hands of the Joker.

The second half of the issue is told from the Joker’s point of view. Joker claims that he engineered Jason’s entire career as Robin by putting him into Batman’s path, arranging the fake-death and return of Jason’s mother, and finally killing him.

None of that is strictly necessary to the context of the annual, except where it proves that Lobdell doesn’t hesitate to dramatically alter characterization. The Joker-engineered origin has been retconned by Lobdell himself since that time, as part of the Rebirth soft-reboot, so it doesn’t really factor in anymore.

The truly relevant issue is Teen Titans #0 (2011), which completely rewrites Tim’s origin story.

A brief summary of Tim’s pre-n52 origin (1989-2011): When he was a small child, Tim visited Haly’s circus with his family. He met Dick and Dick’s parents and then witnessed the parents’ deaths. Years later, Tim saw Robin (Dick) perform the same signature move that he had performed that night at Haly’s, and from that fact, Tim was able to extrapolate both Batman and Robin’s secret identities.

Tim didn’t come forward with his knowledge until after Jason’s death. He noticed that Batman was acting erratically and correctly guessed the cause of Bruce’s behavior (grief over Jason’s death). Tim became so worried about Bruce that he approached Dick and asked him to go back to Bruce and become Robin again. Dick declined to do so, because that chapter of his life was over. Since Tim was convinced that Bruce would not recover without Robin by his side, Tim volunteered to take the position himself. His birth parents were still alive at the time, but both died during his Robin tenure. After their deaths, Bruce adopted Tim as his son.

Some things to keep in mind about this origin story

The entire thing is based in Tim and Dick’s relationship. Dick was Tim’s #1 hero and inspiration from the time they met at the circus until the day the n52 took effect. Tim and Dick’s relationship was well-developed and longstanding, and it played a very important role in Tim’s introduction to vigilantism and general character development.

The thing that makes Tim special among comic book characters is that he figured out Batman and Robin’s secret identities by himself. Like Bruce, Tim has always been written as The Detective, the one that figures things out.

A brief summary of Tim’s n52 origin (2011), written by Scott Lobdell: After Jason’s death, Tim, a child who had previously been uninterested in Batman, noticed a change in behavior. Curiosity aroused, Tim tried to uncover Batman’s secret identity, but was unable to do so; Bruce was aware of Tim and his attempts, so he foiled them accordingly. Eventually, Tim gave up and decided to pursue hacktivism instead. He stole money from the Penguin and donated it. Penguin found out and ordered a hit on Tim’s house. Tim and his parents almost died, but Bruce showed up and saved the day.

After their near-deaths, Tim’s parents chose to go into witness protection, while encouraging Tim to stay behind and fulfill a greater purpose with Bruce. After Bruce began to foster Tim, he revealed that he was Batman, and Tim became Red Robin (not Robin, because he didn’t want to disrespect Jason’s memory).

Some things to notice

Lobdell’s origin for Tim completely bypasses Dick, who doesn’t factor into the story at all. As a result, Tim and Dick have no apparent relationship in the n52. That fact is reflected in their characterizations post-reboot. They barely know each other at all.

In this version, Tim did not do the thing that previously defined him: discovering Batman’s secret identity. By eliminating the Dick-Tim relationship, Lobdell removed the circumstances that led to the reveal (Haly’s circus, signature move, discovery that Dick was Robin, deduction that if Dick was Robin, Bruce must be Batman).

Teen Titans #0 has not, unlike RHATO #0, been retconned, so Tim in both the n52 and Rebirth still has the origin story that Lobdell wrote. It would be hard to overstate the difference between preboot Tim’s characterization and n52/rebirth Tim’s characterization, and that comes down to TT #0. In rewriting Tim’s origin (and then writing Tim’s series until he was removed from the title) Lobdell removed everything that made Tim unique or likable among the batfamily. Every relationship that had been deep and well-established disappeared, and since Lobdell had control of both TT and RHATO at the time, he was able to dramatically change Tim and Jason’s interactions and relationship. That’s a separate subject that I won’t address just now.

So. Back to the annual:

In 2011, Lobdell deleted the iconic scene where Tim sees Dick perform at Haly’s Circus– the scene that directly led to Tim’s discovery of Batman’s secret identity and his subsequent incorporation into the batfamily– from Tim’s origin, thereby flattening a previously dynamic character to the width of a sheet of paper. Today, he stuck that same scene– again, the one that belongs to Tim– into Jason’s origin, specifically as a means to develop Dick and Jason’s relationship. Remember that Lobdell, the same author, previously cut out Dick and Tim’s relationship entirely.

In that context, the annual is incredibly frustrating. Inside the DC universe it’s totally possible that both Tim and Jason saw Dick perform when they were all children. It’s not that it couldn’t logically happen, because it could. The issue is that a single author deleted the scene from one character, greatly to the detriment of that character’s history and characterization, and casually tacked it on to another character’s story.

#asks #anyway i hope that clarifies things and if it doesn't just let me know #as usual id like to request that anybody that enjoyed the annual continue to enjoy it #I'm not here to fight people #i won't fight people as a matter of fact #not interested #I'm just here to help people understand things and i hope thats what I've done in this case

196 notes · View notes

zoobus · 7 years

Note

why are you friends with ranmaofficial? you're a black girl and he's an infamously combative white dude with a god complex and fascist dreams so like what are you doing lmao

Ranma is not a dude

True answer: I don’t remember why but Ranma came into my messages with three 15-page length peer researched articles for me to read with no respect to whether I understood the jargon used and then started discussing the concepts and ideas as if I already understood them which was extremely jarring and very obviously above my head but I didn’t want to admit defeat and read one piece about how full of shit the marshmallow experiment is and how we can extrapolate on that shittiness to address the alleged discrepancies in intelligence between races or the correlation between med students and eating disorders (for the former it was along the lines of “interesting that white supremacists love harping on how the children of Black-American/Black-American and Black-American/White-American children statistically have lower IQs than just White-American children but not the fact that Black/White-European raised in Europe children don’t have this discrepancy…Almost as if black children in America face a distinct consistent and constant degradation throughout their lives that negatively impacts their mental state that other races do not deal with🤔”). It was a great essay even if it took me three days to get through it and nobody ever lets me talk in-depth about a topic before getting bored and cutting me off except ranma, sometimes. So hypothetically, if anyone wanted to talk to me, you’re better off ransacking my inbox with a long article about something you’re passionate about with follow-up questions rather than small-talk because I’m incompetent at chitchat

I’ve actually had a couple people come to me about this so FYI, Ranma is not a fascist, not a right libertarian, not alt-right, not a conservative. They’re Russian, raised in the immediate aftermath of the USSR’s demise, which is going to have a strong impact on one’s opinions of communism, regardless of whether you consider it “true” communism or not. Not liking communism does not inherently indicate a liberal or someone on the right. Also,

Ranma is a Rorschach kind of person. It’s more important for them to be correct than to only hammer on right-wingers being stupid. I think more than few people take them attacking leftist posters (and also, I’ll admit, penning some…touchy replies about sexism that I’ve vocally disagreed with) as evidence of being right-wing which, again, is wrong. If someone/thing on the left is incorrect, they see it as crucial to loudly disparage incorrectness rather than trivializing it as non-important which is why you might see “actually [MAGA avatar’d twitter user] is correct, leftists know jack shit about alt-right politics.” That’s them saying “leftists need to learn more about the particulars and nuances of alt-right conventions to better destroy it” not “you fucking commies know shit about my /pol/itics lmao” but I can understand why some would conclude the latter. I do not think Ranma’s is bad reasoning to be [infamously] combative.

I’m fully aware of their reputation and regardless of it they have a multitude of great qualities, hold certain similar interests that are difficult to find, and has a comparable online history which means we share a lot of background. Let me self-drag a second and admit I don’t have friends irl and it’s difficult for me to make them online as well. Due to my upbringing, I’m super socially stunted, very immature and shy, and I worry a lot about coming across as a creep. I could write an entirely separate post about how often posts about “creepy men,” “mansplaining,” “dudebros,” or just posts starting with “I hate men” and end in something I do but didn’t know bothered others make me so nervous despite my being a girl, and make it very difficult to talk to people without feeling I’m inadvertently making them uncomfortable or pissing them off. I responded to a “mutuals post a number and I’ll describe you” ask and immediately felt like a manipulative freak when my mutual said something really sweet about me like I do not know how to handle normal people. In comes ranma who straight out the gate doesn’t give a shit about being perceived the wrong way which means I don’t have to worry either. I can relax, I can finally “be myself.” Bluntness can be a virtue.

It’s easy to get caught in an echo chamber but ranma often drag me out by the hair. Ranma is literally the only person who fully explained the dangers of "punching nazis” rhetoric to me without relying on You Are What You Hate, just-as-bad logic. Anyway, my point is that instead of riding the coattails of a smarter users’ posts like brett or taxloopholes or memecucker by adding a dumb quip like I often do, I am coerced into questioning my own beliefs and even though sometimes I wish it said with a little more kindness, ranma’s post often make me do my own research, if they haven’t already sent me the dissertation themselves (literally Ranma has never sent me something to read that was less than five pages, not once). Sometimes even when I agree with the subject matter, I’m pushed to think more critically, to understand why beyond gut instinct

contrary to whatever your opinion is, I’m not a Stepin Fetchit blindly Yes-Suh!ing everything that comes out of their mouth and I’ve publicly argued with them multiple times. It’s with them I’m without fear that disagreeing will be held against me or used to disregard anything else I say. Please don’t weaponize my identity, it’s hard enough to voice opinions antithetical to accepted thought in marginalized communities without you aggressively asking what the hell a black and a white could have in common.

they’re very strangely more knowledgeable about my country than I am. Like about us still having Columbus day because of Italian-American pride, I really had no clue and about the southern strategy which is sadJust one of those types who seems to know something about everything and well-read in a way that makes me feel a bit guilty. Rattling off their favorite Mark Twain books they’ve read when I vaguely remember that Tom Sawyer painted a fence

it’s very difficult to find a friend who enjoys anime/manga and isn’t ashamed about it at this age

reblogs my selfies with comments

Come off anon you coward don’t lmao me in my inbox

#in case you're wondering I'm on 30g of adderall and very chatty right now or as the sesquipedalian ranma might say 'loquacious'#i wish i could talk like this to real people and not the empty opera house that is tumblr

6 notes · View notes

yahwehs-light-bringer-blog · 7 years

Link

2 mosheh chapter 3 13 And Mosheh said to Elohim, “See, when I come to the children of Yisra’ĕl and say to them, ‘The Elohim of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His Name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 And Elohim said to Mosheh, “I am that which I am.” 1 And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ” 15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.’ 16 “Go, and you shall gather the elders of Yisra’ĕl together, and say to them, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, of Yitsḥaq, and of Yaʽaqoḇ, appeared to me, saying, “I have indeed visited you and seen what is done to you in Mitsrayim; It is always surprising to see the wide gap that exists between what the original Hebrew Scriptures state and what the various Judaeo-Christian and Muslim doctrines teach, despite the fact that these groups all claim the "Holy Writ" as the primary source for their views on religion. This gap is no- where more noticeable than with the scriptural doctrine of the sacred name. Throughout the Torah and the Prophets (the Old Testament) the belief that the sacred name “hwhy (Yahweh)” was the key to scriptural understanding and salvation is well-pronounced and clearly understood. Yet one would never know this truth listening to the various religious teachers as they preach from the pulpits of their respective synagogues, churches, and mosques. (Statement taken from sacred name doc) but honestly it is so true that the importance of a name to you to me to your friends. People will set out to ask do you prefer desmond or des, which I answer des but the reason they do ask is because people get upset being called the wrong name, some to the point of anger as this is only a human not the creator of all things. I once asked a Indonesian lady what would be desmond in her language she said desmond it surprised me but the reality is that no matter the language I would still be desmond. Well the same goes for Yahweh verse fifteen says forever. Not just this time frame that it was at but forever. One of the first justifications advanced for not using the sacred name hwhy (Yahweh) is the claim that our heavenly father has many names. In having “many names,” the advocates add, it is implied that there is no “one name” adhered to as his personal name. The source for this prevalent misun- derstanding has been the classifying of Yahweh’s personal name with his generic names and titles, as if there were no difference. This misinterpretation begins with the failure to distinguish between var- ious types of names. For example, it is immediately pointed out that Yah- weh is in Scriptures called an eloah (plural eloahi, collective noun eloahim)1 and an el—terms with different meanings yet merged in most English trans- lations under the single word “God.” Yahweh is also referred to as el shaddai (the almighty), elion (the most high), adonai (my sovereign or sovereigns), and so forth. These various appellations are held up as proof that our hea- venly father has many names. Yet this reasoning fails to take into account the fact that these other names are only generic and descriptive titles, not personal names. Yahweh, on the other hand, is our heavenly father’s only personal and proper name. Generic Names The first class that should be distinguished represents Yahweh’s generic names, i.e. the names of his genus or kind. Harper’s Bible Dictionary, under the subtitle, Generic Names for God, lists the term eloah and its cognate form el- ohim (eloahim).2 The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, likewise, places these terms under “Generic names.” It adds, “Like theos, Deus and God, it is a generic term, including every member of the class deity.”3 Eloah (hla) and its variant forms eluah (hwla) and the Aramaic eloaha (ahla) are derived from the descriptive title el (la), meaning “strength” and “power,” i.e. a “mighty one.”4 Added to la (el) is the suffix h (ah), hw (uah), or ah (aha), forms of the verb hwh (huh), meaning “to breath; to be” or “to exist.”5 An eloah, therefore, is a “mighty living being.” O —————————— 1 µyhla (eloahim) is often transliterated as “elohim,” hla (eloah) as “eloh,” and yhla (the eloahi) as “elohe.” 2 HBD, p. 686. NBD, p. 475, likewise states that “‘Elohim’ is the generic name for deity.” 3 ISBE, p. 1254. 4 SEC, Heb. #433, 410; NBD, pp. 474, 478; YAC, p. 411; HEL, p. 8; EBD, p. 425, “power, might.” For the form hwla see Job, 31:2, 33:26, 37:15, 22, 39:17. For the form ahla see Dan., 2:20, 3:26, 4:2, 5:3. 5 SEC, Heb. #1931–1934, 1961; HEL, p. 65; OTT, 1, p. 180, “the hyh is to be understood in the sense of ‘being present,’ ‘being there,’ and therefore precisely not in the sense of absolute, but of relative and efficacious, being—I will be there (for you).” The plural forms of eloah are eloahi (yhla), meaning more than one eloah, and eloahim (µyhla), a collective noun meaning a group of eloah beings.6 A collective noun is a word representing a plurality of things standing as one unit. It therefore uses a singular verb. We can compare these collective nouns with our English words “family” and “sheep.” For example, one would say that “the family is going to the park,” not “the family are going to the park.” Though the term family can represent a large number of people it utilizes the singular verb “is” rather than the plural “are.” Another important observation is the fact that in Scriptures we not only find the term eloahim used as a collective noun when speaking specifically of Yahweh but also the term eloahi.7 When the term eloahi is used in reference to Yahweh it consistently reflects the oneness or unity relationship between the two Yahwehs (the father and the son).8 According to Scriptures, “Yahweh our eloahi, Yahweh is dja (achad; i.e. unified, one)”;9 that is, the two eloah named Yahweh are unified as one Yahweh. Meanwhile, when the term eloahim is used in Scriptures specifially for Yahweh it represents the father in relationship with the entire family of eloah-type beings. Yahweh, therefore, is the name of the father eloah in the eloahim. For example, we read in the Psalms, “None is like you in eloahim, Yahweh, and none are like your works” (Ps., 86:8), and, “great is Yahweh and to be praised exceedingly, he is to be respected above all eloahim” (Ps. 96:4). Titles The next class of “names” is “descriptive and social titles.” Chief among these is the Hebrew term el (la) and its cognate forms eli (yla) and elim (µyla).17 El is ofttimes confused with the term eloah, a mistake which stems back to the fact that el is regularly glossed as Θες (theos; English “god”) in the ancient Greek Septuagint (LXX) translation of the Old Testament.18 The confusion is increased by the fact that the word “eloah” is derived from “el” and that both terms are used in reference to the supreme being.19 Close examination of this term reveals it is purely a descriptive title given to Yahweh. For example, the ancient writer Jerome (348–420 C.E.), who —————————— 12 See below n. 15. 13 For example see Eph., 3:14–15, “For this cause I bow my knees to the father of our sov- ereign Yahushua the messiah, from whom the whole family in the heavens and on the earth is named.” This issue will be discussed in detail in Part IV of our present volume, entitled The Key to Salvation, and in Vol. III. Also see our forthcoming text entitled The Afterlife. 14 For examples of eloah used in reference to a pagan deity see Dan., 11:37ff; 2 Chron., 32:15; for examples of eloahi used as pagan deities (plural) see Gen., 31:30, 32, 35:2, 4; Exod., 12:12, 20:23, 23:24, 32, 22, 32:4, 8, 31, 34:15–17; Lev., 19:4; etc.; for examples of eloahim used in re- gard to pagan deities as a group or groups see Gen., 3:5; Exod., 20:3, 22:28, 32:1; Deut., 4:28; and so forth. 15 SEC, Heb. #430. For an example that eloahim includes the angels compare Ps., 8:5, with Heb., 2:6f. In Vol. III we shall discuss in depth the ancient view that the angels were the sons of eloahim, also simply known as eloahim. 16 For examples of ha-eloahim see Gen., 6:2; Exod., 3:6; 1 Sam., 4:4, 8, 18, 19, 21, 22, 5:1, 2; and so forth. 17 HEL, p. 8; SEC, Heb. #352, 410. 18 Compare the list of references in YAC, p. 411, s.v. “God,” no. 2, for el, with the corre- sponding verses in the Greek Septuagint text (LXX). 19 See above n. 4. For a list of examples where “el” is used in reference to Yahweh see YAC, p. 411, s.v. “God,” no. 2; and SEC, pp. 397–406 (Heb. #410). 20 Jerome, Ep. 25 ad Mar. 21 See above n. 4. 22 YAC, p. 411, “Mighty one”; NB, p. 5, “strong,” “the Mighty One”; ROSNB, p. xviii, “Mighty, strength or the Mighty One”; HEL, p. 8, “hero, mighty man”; GHCL, s.v. la, “strong, mighty, a mighty one, a hero,” “mighty hero.” 23 HEL, p. 8. For an example see Deut., 28:32. 24 Ezek., 30:20–26; cf. 31:1–18. 25 Ezek., 17:11–23. 26 Job, 41:25. 27 Pss., 29:1 and 89:6. The LXX translates “sons of elim” in these verses as “sons of theos,” thereby equating elim with eloahim, in the sense that the elim are the mighty rulers in the eloa- him. But the LXX translation is an extrapolation. Most English translations correctly translate the Hebrew here as “sons of the mighty” or “sons of the mighty ones” (i.e., KJV; IB; HEOT; and so forth). 28 See above n. 19. 29 For a list of citations see YAC, pp. 480f, s.v. “HIGH, most,” no. 4, and cf. p. 411, s.v. “God,” no. 2, “Mighty one, la el.” 30 Gen., 33:20, “el eloahi Israel”; Josh., 22:22, gives, “El of eloahim is hwhy” (i.e. “Yahweh is the mighty one of the eloahim); in Dan., 11:36, the expression “el of elim (the mighty one of mighty ones”) is found. I could go on for hours with all this information that is but a glimpse of the 256 page article that was freely given away some years back if you would like a copy as it free to give as stated on second page of introduction

2 notes · View notes