#the framing problems in cql

[admirableadmiranda]

I just want to let you know that you and others bloggers who talk about canon jiang cheng totally changed my mind about him. I was never a JC Stan or anything but he was a character I liked, I think the image I had of him was much more fanon JC.

I had read the novel years ago and didn’t remember many details from it by the time I watched the live action, and I think maybe JC is more likable in The Untamed?? Idk cause I actually liked him bruh…

So I started seeing some posts abou him here on tumblr and I was confused at first but then I was like “wait…that makes sense”, so it was a eye opener for me, that JC is not what the fandom paints him to be ~

Oh thank you anon! And to be honest, I like Jiang Cheng too. I just don't really like fanon Jiang Cheng who tends to be the exact opposite of his book character and somehow any of his actions are everyone else's fault. Jiang Cheng the book character I really enjoy!

CQL/The Untamed is a weird thing there because I finally put my finger on why it confuses people so badly when his actions are still there and Wei Wuxian is even less culpable and responsible for what happened than in the book, that they look at it and assume that Jiang Cheng is the good guy and Wei Wuxian is the bad guy seeking redemption. And that's cause the framing around him is all mucked up. As @chai-chahiye-yr said in a response to one of my other posts, he's often shown as looking proud in the background, or he's crying when the script calls for anger, or (my personal bug bear) they play up Wei Wuxian's trauma and cynophobia around dogs for comedy so his action of scaring Wei Wuxian with a dog so badly that he screams for either Lan Wangji or Jiang Yanli to come protect him from Jiang Cheng doesn't read as seriously as it should. The show did some interesting things, but it really mucked up his character with how dissonant the script and framing around his actions are, and honestly I can't really blame people anymore who are more tv focused than book focused because the camera and film language told them that Jiang Cheng was better than he was.

I'm glad that mine and other's posts were able to help you decide how you wanted to feel about Jiang Cheng, and I hope you continue to have many happy days in cql/mdzs fandom ahead! Thanks for the ask!

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #cql vs mdzs #the framing problems in cql #asks #anon #anon asks

[spriteofmushrooms]

Hi! I've read your jc's post and I find interesting how you framed jc and jyl's relationship. we don't have one single scene only about them (novel canon), because it's from wwx's pov mostly. So there's a lot of room for interpretations. For example, imo their relationship is almost quite balanced; jyl is much more a mother figure for wwx than she is for jc, because jc has a living mother, a mother he fiercely loves. jyl doesn't need to stress much about jc, because he doesn't give problems. At his worst, jc is a bitch. wwx, at his worst, is a BIG problem. Also the moment when jc says that jyl is the one who has to forgive jzx, not them, it's an important moment Imo, because it gives me the impression that he perceives her as a person and he respects her wishes. I would love to hear your interpretation about them and their relationship!

I agree with you, anon. Also, I've been thinking of this every day since you sent it. Thanks for the obsession.

Jiang Yanli is the only authority figure in Jiang Cheng's life who gently corrects him and encourages him to be better without damning him for having flaws. When Jiang Cheng kicks out Wei Ying, she is the one he knows will help him. She does so, and she encourages him to apologize and put Wei Ying's bed back in his room--which Jiang Cheng, it turns out, has already done. Whenever Jiang Yanli corrects him, he accepts her better judgement and never argues or feels unloved or compared to anyone. Jiang Yanli is, I think, a truly kind person, without whom the household would not survive.

Wei Wuxian tells Jiang Cheng to comfort Mianmian in the cave; and he says that Jin Ling looks like his mother only when he's crying, at which point Jiang Cheng defends and comforts him. I think Jiang Cheng was the one who comforted Yanli, while Wei Wuxian likely tried to distract her. Jiang Cheng can accept his people's negative emotions; Wei Wuxian almost seems to blame himself for them.

Jiang Yanli is the only person that we know Jiang Cheng is comfortable showing his softest side to. Therefore, she must be completely safe. If she teases him, it's gently and without malice; but I don't think she teases him. He privately suggests that Wei Wuxian give Jin Ling his courtesy name; Jiang Yanli shares this because she knows Wei Wuxian would feel loved by this gesture.

When YunmengJiang is in desperate need of allies, respectability, and funds, Jiang Cheng gently rebuffs Jin Guangshan's offer of a rekindled betrothal. He respects Jiang Yanli enough to make her own decision, and he values her more than political gain. She, in turn, trusts him to mean what he says; and I think she knows that Jiang Cheng would have supported her all her life in Lotus Pier if she could not find a love match.

In short, I think they were tied together very closely.

My personal headcanons include that she teaches him how to do non-cultivation things when he's overwhelmed, like cooking and needlework. Before he was old enough to understand why Yanli doesn't cultivate (which I accept CQL's suggestion that she's chronically ill), he tried to help her improve by giving her baby lessons on meditation. I think that Jiang Cheng is a deep well into which secrets can be shared without fear, and I think he was safe for her to express her more filial negative opinions. I think she was the safest person to tell any positive, delicate feelings to.

Baby Jiang Cheng followed her around like a duckling. After she married, he must have visited dozens of times. Through her, Jiang Cheng and Jin Zixuan were able to understand each other better; as you may have seen in my recent chengning ficlet, I think that happy year ended with Jiang Cheng privately calling him Zixuan-ge.

All she wanted to be truly content was for her a-Xian to come home. Jin Zixuan and Jiang Cheng tried to make it happen for her. Because who wouldn't want to make her happy?

#pallas.rtf #mdzs #hi anon #jiang cheng #jiang yanli #canon jiang cheng

[madtomedgar]

something i think gets dropped a lot in fandom discussions is the category of stories that both operate within a particular moral framework and are uncomfortable with it. there’s probably a word for this and i’m not articulating this super well but.

i think modern western storytelling, particularly the kind of stories that attract fandom type interactions, either have a morality system that the narrative wholeheartedly agrees with and has set up as “good,” which is being challenged by an outside “evil” (think lotr) or the system is framed as immoral, and our heroes see through that and overthrow the system to establish a reign of “good,” (start wars, original flavor).

And there are other kinds of storytelling around systems of morality. in western lit/media, they usually belong to more serious, high-brow works that don’t work well with fandom. but the kind of framework i’m talking about is one that also shows up in antigone. in that, there is a set way that Creon has to act, as a good ruler. If he doesn’t act this way, he isn’t a good ruler. And there’s a set way that Antigone has to act to be a good sister. And those two goals are at deep odds, so you wind up with Creon doing the right thing but also doing something so deeply wrong, and Antigone doing the wrong thing to do what’s right. And there’s a read here that’s like. Creon was sticking too closely to the letter of the law and therefore couldn’t see what was really right, like Antigone did, and so is a tragic villain. But you can also read them as both being right, and being unable to resolve that.

And in discussions of mdzs/cql, I feel like I see a lot of either people deciding that society and its moral requirements are bad, and the protagonist who rebels against them is good, OR people upholding the societal moral requirements against the protagonist in a way even the story doesn’t. Because what Wei Wuxian does in leaving the Jiang sect and breaking his promise is wrong for the society of the story. But it’s also true that he’s doing the right thing by protecting the Wens, and the problems with his brother are that they can’t resolve the issue of them both being right in incompatible ways.

And like. Taking revenge for your family by killing the entire family of the people who wronged you is socially acceptable, but I don’t think you can say that the story is happy about it. Being a good and obedient child is a social moral requirement, and the story isn’t framing telling your parents who suck to go fuck themselves, or having them fucked to death, as good. Instead it’s wrestling with the question of what happens when your parents abuse that loyalty and affection, or don’t accept it? What the fuck are you supposed to do when you have to both can’t inter a traitor in the city but you have to bury your family honorably? And there isn’t a neat answer!

Like... Wei Wuxian does owe the Jiangs, and also the handling of that debt is disastrous and unfair to everyone. Jin Guangyao is being a very good son, and therefore a very bad man, until he becomes a terrible son and then a good man (as in once he’s out from under his father, he chooses to do things that enhance the common good for no benefit to himself, and puts a stop to the demonic cultivation experiments that used live people, and generally seems to perform the role of a wise and good leader. I’m not saying what he did to his father or the sex workers was good because it wasn’t, though it is fun narratively). Wen Ning is a traitor to the man who took him in and raised him and to his sect, and he’s also a member of that sect with a potential moral obligation to take revenge, and he did the right thing by helping the Jiangs out. But it was also very much the wrong thing.

And so much of this push and pull and discomfort with, but not rejection of, this moral system is bound up in conflicting moral obligations, to parents, to individuals, to sects, to leaders, and what happens when they conflict. But it’s important, I think, that it’s not actually a rejection of these obligations and their weight. Yeah.

#untamed stuff #long post #idk if this makes sense but have it anyway

[xiyao-feels]

Why do so many people believe JGY framed MXY and that the watchtowers were the same as the Wen Sect’s Yiling supervisory offices?

Ha, okay. So, there's kind of two reasons.

The first is that people really like to hate JGY and will totally make shit up and are way predisposed to accept any explanations that make him look bad. "Wait, just like the mob in MDZS?" Exactly like the mob in MDZS. I've said it before, but if this were a novel where WWX's story was framed like JGY's, fandom would be 100% convinced that he cursed Jin Zixun, and probably most people would think he killed Jin Zixuan on purpose too.

For the framing MXY specifically I should also add that last time I wrote about this people pointed out that people want MXY to be innocent, since not only did he have a shitty home life but also he's the only canonically queer character aside from Wang//xian and if he's harassing someone that's just.... really unfortunate.... And I do think that's true and it's an important motivation for people. But I also think that if the guy he was supposed to have harassed was a character people actually liked, people wouldn't conclude that JGY framed him. Some people would probably think he was actually guilty; a lot of people would try to hold them both as blameless. Instead it's mostly just JGY who gets blamed.

The second reason for these positions on MXY and on the watchtowers is, unfortunately, CQL.

When it comes to MXY, first and most obviously, CQL added JGY to his vengeance spell. This isn't the case in MDZS at all, but I think the logic is fairly obvious: if MXY is looking for revenge against JGY, maybe it's because JGY harmed him, in which case.... I do actually think there's a bit of a problem with an argument that uses the CQL-only fact of JGY being a vengeance target, and combines it with the MDZS-only fact of JGY not QS being the one he'd harassed, but such is life. In any case it's not a watertight argument, you can totally see how MXY would want revenge even if he was 100% absolutely guilty, but I think it does help explain why people think in that direction.

But there's also a specific line from WWX, after he wakes up after the cultivation conference:

Now I know who is Mo's last enemy. As soon as he's dead, the curse will lift naturally. It's Jin Guangyao. Now, in any case, would not believe that Mo Xuanyu was expelled from Jinlintai because he harassed madam Jin. I'm afraid he knew what Jin Guangyao's secret was and wanted to tell Qin Su, but Jin Guangyao took the initiative to kick him off.

(Episode 42)

This is never followed up on, of course. You will also observe that in light of what we know about JGY's actual secrets this doesn't make any sense. MXY wanted to tell Qin Su that....JGY killed NMJ? The only secret it would possibly make sense to go to QS specifically with is the whoops incest secret, and the only way MXY could possibly know that is if NHS arranged for him to find out, and NHS has no reason to do that and a great deal of reason not to; it would be an enormous risk (JGY might trace it back to him!) and it's well before NHS has all his ducks lined up in a row. Frankly I'm not even sure if NHS actually knew yet at that point in the timeline.

As a side note, I love how this theory posits that MXY knew an important and dangerous secret about JGY, which he attempted to reveal, and JGY's response was to frame him and let him back out into the world. Like, yes, back into the bosom of his abusive family, but man, what a risk to take! I am pretty much of the opinion that if MXY were actively opposed to JGY while also knowing a dangerous secret he'd be dead, because JGY would have arranged to have him killed, because duh. He might hold him captive instead if he really liked him, or felt like MXY had helped him or his mother or something, but in no case is just sending him back to his family on the table.

And when it comes to the watchtowers, the comparison to the supervisory offices is made in the conversation WWX overhears on his way to JL's celebration.

"Jin clan has come across a series of happy events. Little Childe Jin is about one month old. All Jin clan are over the moon. I hear His excellency wants to set up lookouts around the land."

"Lookouts? Recently several clans are arguing over this. Is there an agreement?"

"What is to argue over? I think the lookout is a great idea. On one hand, it can monitor situations from place to place. On the other hand, it passes messages immediately. I don’t know what they are arguing about."

"I don’t think so."

"What if…it would become another Wen’s Supervisory Office?"

"Are the two the same? Jin clan is only in charge of building lookouts. They are managed by all clans."

"Be that as it may, managing it jointly will finally turn into managing it alone by Jin clan of Lanling."

"I hear the idea was proposed by Jin Guangyao. Even if Red Blade Master disagree with building lookouts, he is supposed to attend first-month celebration of Jin Zixuan’s son."

(Episode 31)

This, on the other hand, is the conversation WWX overhears in MDZS:

One of them asked, “Chief Cultivator? Seems like the big sects have been arguing over this for the past while. Have they come to a conclusion yet?”

“What is there to argue about? We can’t be a heap of loose sand, a group without a leader forever, can we? To set a cultivator who watches over all of the sects—I don’t see anything wrong with that.”

“It’s not that good, is it? What if another QishanWen Sect…”

“How could that be the same? The Chief Cultivator is elected by all the sects. They’re different, they’re different.”

“Hah, they say it’s an election, but everyone knows in their hearts. No matter what, it’s the same few people who’s competing, isn’t it? Is there any space for others?”

“ChiFeng-Zun is quite against it, isn’t he? He’s tried to stop Jin GuangShan so many times, implied or otherwise. In my opinion, there’s still a long time before they finish mulling over it.”

“And there can be only one person who sits in the position of Chief Cultivator. If it really passed, whom exactly the person should be would take another few years of arguing over, I suppose.”

“It’s the worry of those who sit at the top, anyways. None of our business. It’s not like little shrimps like us could have any control over it even if we wanted to.”

Someone suddenly changed the subject, “Did any of you attend the completion ceremony of the Cloud Recesses’ Library Pavilion? Well, I went. I stood there and looked, and it was the exact same as how it was before. A difficult undertaking indeed.”

“Yeah, very difficult. It was such a huge cultivational residence, an ethereal realm of hundreds of years old—how could it be rebuilt in a short amount of time?”

“Speaking of it, there’s been a lot of joyous occasions these days, hasn’t there?”

And then in both cases they start talking about JL's party.

So you'll observe a few differences here. First and most obvious, the worries about the position of Chief Cultivator—which WRH held in CQL, but which didn't exist before now in MDZS—are transferred to be about the watchtowers instead.

Now these concerns make a lot more sense if they're about the position of Chief Cultivator, and they don't really make sense if they're about the watchtowers—like, one whole thing about the watchtowers is that they're in remote areas, that's the entire point. What are they supposed to be supervising, exactly? The one wandering cultivator who comes by the area every three years of they're lucky? And observing that there will be only one Chief Cultivator, and it's going to be from a limited pool of candidates, makes much more sense to me than worrying that the Jin alone will end up running the towers—I mean, it's not impossible, but it's a longer-term concern and much easier to prevent than "limited pool of candidates", lol.

But yeah: the watchtowers/Wen supervisory offices comparison is one CQL draws directly. It's not one that makes any sense, but unfortunately that's kind of CQL on a lot of the CQL-specific things JGY's supposed to have done. (I tried to work out the timeline at one point for the XY collaboration in CQL and just gave up.)

(I also left in the discussion about the rebuilding of the Lan's library pavilion in the MDZS discussion, because it's not there in the CQL discussion, and this really gets my goat. It's like two lines! That ask a question we don't even know, at this point in the story, there's an actual answer to: how did they rebuild it so fast? But apparently in this particular change they're not even going to leave us that.)

tl;dr: a) people really hate JGY; b) unfortunately, CQL.

[lansplaining]

Why didn't the murder of Chang Ping cause more shockwaves? Someone murdered in the most cruel way possible the last surviving member of a dreadful case concerning Xue Yang (which JGY believes to be dead), a demonic cultivator (which might get Jiang Cheng's attention), who was presumably executed by the Chief Cultivator precisely for the crime of murdering said Chang clan (so Nie Huaisang may want to snuff out a bit to get dirt on him). Lan "goes where chaos is" Wangji is presumably out of the ice by then, so he might want to take a look as well.

And even after the "investigation" concluded the sword used for the crime was Shuanghua, wouldn't that still cause a lot of talking? The last male disciple of Baoshan Sanren became a dark evil overlord, and if Xiao Xingchen really is the man responsible for this snafu, they might as well start looking for him to make sure he won't cause trouble in the future!

It does seem to have been a pretty massive deal! But I guess there are a few factors here.

Chang Ping had already been pressured into recanting, which I think can't be overlooked as a factor that would have taken the pressure off, first because some people would probably just accept the recantation, and those who were suspicious of it would probably recognize that it happened because somebody pressured him in a very compelling way, and what if they decided to turn that pressure on anyone else who spoke out about the matter? There's also Chang Ping himself turning down the pressure (quote from the wiki, I think from the official translation): "What can I do aside from this? If I don't tolerate it, the rest of our clan's people wouldn't be safe for long. I'm really grateful, Daozhang, but… please don't help me anymore. Now, helping me would be harming me. I don't want the Yueyang Chang Clan to end yet."

So Chang Ping has deliberately turned attention away from the case by the time he's murdered, and presumably brushed off anyone who tried to raise it or help in the interim. Suspicious, obviously, and he doesn't even try to hide it! But see above-- what would happen to anyone else who tried to push?

The fact that it's supposedly Xiao Xingchen does seem like it should be compelling, and I actually do kind of like how the donghua frames the whole thing as this "what the hell, why did Xiao Xingchen murder somebody?" mystery at first. But the fact that he's this wandering rogue cultivator seems really key-- nobody knows where to find him, nobody is responsible for him, and now there's nobody alive to pressure anyone to do anything about it. And then he doesn't seem to cause any further problems, so it's easy to forget.

It's intended in large part, I'd argue, as commentary on the society at large: without someone as blunt and righteous as Nie Mingjue applying pressure, cases like this just... disappear. Xiao Xingchen took revenge on the guy who recanted his accusation on a murder XXC really stuck his neck out to uncover, seems a bit out of character, but oh well, people change. Seems like he got it out of his system, not our problem.

I do think documented Bright Moon and Gentle Breeze stan Lan Wangji of CQL could easily have gone to investigate, but it does seem like this may have been relatively recently after he left seclusion. And honestly one of my favorite performance moments in CQL is how even just talking about this whole situation clearly just makes Lan Wangji so, so sad. At the end of the day, maybe he was showing a bit of side of him that's more like Lan Xichen: he couldn't change it, so he just didn't want to know.

#ask answered

[colorisbyshe]

I have literally no way of verifying this info so take it with a grain of salt but I heard a while ago mxtx actually was in college when writing mdzs so the confusing style makes a lot of sense since she's inexperienced, and tgcf was much tighter and made more sense. as someone who read the fan translation of mdzs (and never will again, lmao cql is my only canon), it's interesting to hear about your thoughts about the writing and novel! imo there are genuinely spectacular book moments/dialogue/scenes, but most of them made it to cql, and the few good romance scenes (if he catches me I'll-, the yunmeng date extra) rly aren't worth it. I'm personally glad I read the entire book (sans incense burners) because it gives me a fuller perspective and allows comparison between adaptations, but it's not something I would necessarily recommend. the only scene that I think the novel did great that cql didn't have was the wen blood pool scene, but iirc that was in the donghua too. on the other hand the novel had a lot of really cool worldbuilding elements that were explained much better than in cql and I think jin ling was a stronger character so it also depends on what you like and want to see. anyway it's great to hear your thoughts, thanks for posting!

same anon - also love your description of the problems in the framing device in mdzs. you're right! it's inconsistent and a mess! also super insightful to pinpoint the fact that wwx is being used to introduce characters without spoiling them instead of reacting organically to the situation. and his weird interactions with lwj…they were so miserable /sob

Yeah, I do think the novel does a LOT better job explaining word building stuff than CQL did, since it can just... write things out instead of having it just sort of implied or directly stated via dialogue, which can be clunky. I honestly think a looot of hwat I know about the ~lore was actually picked up through checking the wiki or like having concepts spelled out in fanfic by authors who were drawing from both MDZS/CQL information, which... is a problem. Like it's almost all technical information (like about how golden cores work and what specific terms signify) but also some of it is just concepts being better explained when they were skimmed over in the drama.

So the novels do have value in like... padding out the world and maybe providing some character moments (although I will say... I thought Jiang Cheng being homophobic was just like... an exaggerated meme but no he's like... straight up just textually homophobic LMAO... don't know if i needed that enhanced character depth) but they will never be my definitive understanding of the story, even if I do read past Vol 1. And I definitely hve no interest in spending money on or owning the novels, even in a pirated way.

I am still impressed with how enjoyable of a read it is and I think the text holds up better than I thought it would in terms of like... properly dropping bread crumbs for people who know how everything ends, like it lays things out well... outside of the very weird framing of Wei Wuxian himself against everyone from his former life.

Like I said his reactions to everyone... come off as very unnatural and untrue to his character and their relationships, even with how much distance came between them in his final months/years. For how well misdirection worked in CQL at least... it's really not working here when provided with characters more inner thoughts.

So I LIKE having them, at least in theory, and I like more peaks into the background (like Lan Xichen teasing Lan Wangji early on about liking Wei Wuxian's company lmaoooo), but idk if the early stuff is servicing what is to come as well as it should be.

Also... the bad BL tropes are already hitting hard. Like LWJ making WWX sleep on top of him and the moments emphasizing how tiny WWX is now.... girl, the fujoshi within you has leaked onto the page, go clean that up.

I think (from what I know at least, from the manhua and from comparisons) Imas sively going to appreciate MXTX being less present in the CQL adaption. Like I feel the author too much in the novel. I feel the machinations.

So as pleased as I am by the world building and overall narrative/character moments, which is VERY pleased, she really is her own worst enemy. Not even getting into her moral issues just from like a technical stand point, her writing is very frustrating to me.

Going from a superior adaption to the OG text is lot.

It's like... did any of y'all read the thirteen letters? Womb to tomb bitches?? It's like reading that then watching TFA. Like... even the likable things become frustrating because you're so aware of their limitations and how they aren't reaching their full potential.

#i really have jumped from one franchise where i hate the creators to a new one huh #can't even appreciate the source material

[sad-weiying]

I don’t think we talk enough about the damage the MDZS donghua did on fan’s interpretation of events.

I know we hate CQL onlies a lot and i agree that they are a huge problem in this fandom, but i have yet to see people talk about the absolute madness of donghua onlies.

Like the fact that they soecifically made the choice to show lotus pier being burned - which is pointedly a thing that happens to the cloud recesses and NOT to yunmeng jiang - has led to so much “JC REBUILT LP FROM NOTHING ON HIS OWN POOR MEOW MEOW” discorse when im fact lotus pier as a place was never even TOUCHED, it was all there!!!!

The donghua also shows anime trope-y flashbacks that get interpreted in all sorts of ways by people who have not read the novel.

It has also given Madam Yu the absolute badass lady status that she does not deserve. It frames her in a way completely distorted from canon and is likely what fuels the majority of her stans today.

It also rushes over the fact that all major sects were part of the first siege of the burial mounds, and wastes little to no time actually showing and humanizing the people wwx was protecting there. It especially doesn’t focus at all on the fact that jiang cheng was the one leading the siege. All this info is delivered by means of fast narration, no showing involved, which softens the blow to a ridiculous degree.

I enjoyed watching the donghua. It’s a fun adaptation. However the time constraints it was under to show the whole story of the book certainly did it no favors and it now brings in some of the most batshit insane takes this fandom has ever seen.

#mdzs #mdzs donghua #jc stans dont clown my posts

[plan-d-to-i]

I feel as though the part of the Fandom that is initially introduced to mdsz , whether it'd cql or donghua or the novel, don't understand the tropes that are associated with c-novels . I guess it could be because this is their fist introduction to it. It's like they try to westernize it as much as possible . I don't know if it makes much sense but it would be with some fans making a comparison of demonic cultivation with biblical Demons and thinking that a cultivation sect is like a military. Even with pushing the narrative that wwx is morally , which is a popular trope in YA novels.

Not related but one of the recent wild takes that I've heard is that some people thought that jiang yanli was the love interest. Which was wild to me. I guess they came in the Fandom through cql, most likely, or didn't know they were reading a bl novel.

Hahah if they watched cql I can understand it. Although I think WQ was framed even more as the romantic love interest... 🙃

I'm wondering if perhaps the problem is that a lot of people just seem to not be able to consume a piece of media independently. They keep trying to fit it into the context of all the other things they've read/watched, even when it doesn't match. Like this: "some fans making a comparison of demonic cultivation with biblical Demons and thinking that a cultivation sect is like a military".

When consuming a new work, seems like a good idea to let that tell you where everything stands. Most good media does that. Unless yk it's several volumes and you hop skip into the middle of it. Sure some things it's taken for granted readers can recognize without further explanation but most things can be extrapolated from context. Anything that's an absolute enigma well, that's what google or a glossary are for. Even in the exr translation, the notes were there. People just are like "oh I'm going to personally draw this parallel [insert totally unrelated thing] 🤗👍 ".

If I'm reading/watching something new I like/find it's a good idea to just let it take me where it's going, not constantly reframe it in other terms.

#mdzs #answers

[ouyangzizhensdad]

I'm gonna go on a limb here and say something I've been thinking about. So, I watched cql before reading the novel, and when I first read mdzs I have to say I was a bit thrown off by the Phoenix Mountain kiss, so of course my first instinct was to come to this hellsite and try to find what other people thought of it. The more I looked into it, the more I was convinced that the reason so many people hate it so irrationally and why it is apparently so hard for some to analyse any possible meaning beyond the obvious things in that scene, is because people that were introduced to mdzs via cql often go into the novel trying to get some sort of "fandom experience".

What I mean is that people will read mxtx's work and expect to get the same gratification they get whenever they find a good fic. Something tailored to their taste and characters built upon the preconceived ideas (often fanon) they have of each of them. It's a problem I've noticed a lot with queer media reception by people who are active in fandom. It's one of the things I am critical of and why I am so adamant to join fandom discussions, because I feel like many fandoms have created spaces where the queer characters are made to be these perfect examples of representation, so whenever queer characters are allowed to be flawed and make bad decisions people often jump on the bandwagon of calling it problematic and homophobic, instead of putting some effort into reading further than what is in plain sight and being critical of the possible meaning behind the character's actions.

Sorry for the long ask, but I wanted to get this out of my system. Tried my best, but English is not my first language, so I'm sorry if anything is weird or hard to understand.

Hi anon, 

I think you are definitely unto something when you say: “people will read mxtx's work and expect to get the same gratification they get whenever they find a good fic. Something tailored to their taste and characters built upon the preconceived ideas (often fanon) they have of each of them.” It certainly would explain why so many people, even while aware that the series is an adaptation of the book, say stuff like “novel!LWJ is OOC”. They might have approached the novel as just the “fanfic” of CQL that includes “canon Wangxian”, without considering how much had been potentially changed through the process of adapting MDZS and making it palatable according to censorship.

I agree with you that the current state of fandom, where fic writers seem focused on avoiding being Problématique at all cost, has not only stiffled creativity but created in certain fans unreasonable expectations towards other works. Fandom, as a creative context, is generally focused on (self-)indulgence, on feel-goodness, and is largely pretty dry in terms of themes. But to expect all creatives to have the same “goal” or approach when it comes to art is simply ridiculous. For some people, art is a safe means through which to explore difficult, violent or outlandish set-ups. Art can be used to make people feel uncomfortable, unsettled just as it can be used to make people feel uplifted and moved. Art can be focused on exploring nuanced and controversial topics. Art can be used to portray irredeemable assholes, losers or monsters. Art can be depressing and deny us any feelings of satisfaction. Art can do so many things! And, yes, sometimes creativity is mobilised in the service of writing the nth wholesome gay coffee store AU for a popular anglo property: but that’s neither the norm nor the rule. 

I think as well in terms of queer representation that we lose a lot when we try to argue that the only way to “fight” homophobia is to present queer characters and queer relationships that are Unproblématique and fit a constantly-shifting standard of what is “not-homophobic”. Take the current obsession with the idea that all gay men must be vers or otherwise be a homophobic stereotype: putting aside all that needs to be unpacked in that belief, imagine a world where it’s the accepted idea everywhere that you can’t write about gay men lest they be vers. How many queer experiences would we be erasing in the process? Or, again, this weird idea that it’s “bad” to write in fem queer men because that’s a stereotype, when the real issue is just that fem queer men have generally only been written as one-dimensional characters present in the narrative for comedic purposes or stereotypes, and not as fully-fledged humans with complex internal lives and relationships. As a Problématique Gay, I hate the idea that only perfect queer narratives can exist. Nah, people, queer existence is complex, and queer people are not perfect (although we’re cooler than the str8s). It’s just.... believe me, the continued existence of homophobia is not determined by whether characters in books have the “correct-according-to-you” kind of sex or whatever. 

NB: I have to say, as well, that the first time I came across the Phoenix Mountain kiss, I thought (in bad faith) that it had been added just as a sort of unfortunate fan service since the novel was published chapter by chapter. But when I finished the book and thought back on it, the inclusion of the Phoenix Mountain kiss made sense, narratively and thematically. It also forced me to recognise that, even if I had read MDZS before I ever watched CQL, I had started reading MDZS with my own preconceptions (which were certainly not helped by the framing of the translation) : that it would be a middling danmei full of the same tired tropes. I was glad to be proven wrong!

#anon ask #fandom discussions

[fincalinde]

☕ any fic or meta that assumes jgy views lxc derisively/contemptuously or sees him as stupid/silly/incompetent in any way are inherently profoundly ooc, even if they also have him being affectionate/loving to lxc

Bold words!

I broadly agree with this opinion but I think it's helpful to look at why this kind of thing crops up. Ultimately the error is not simply due to misreading the source material, but is also the result of well-meaning attempts to replicate what is there in canon.

So two things are established in canon (by 'canon' I mean MDZS but I think this does also apply to CQL): JGY is exceptionally competent but lacks power and agency, and LXC is both privileged and kind. Basically: LXC means well, and JGY seethes with disguised resentment.

I can see how someone who is perhaps not experienced with close reading might leap to conclusions along the lines of: JGY's fear of everyone and his hatred and resentment is essentially the same as feeling contempt for everyone; LXC, because he is kept in the dark about some of JGY's actions, is therefore not an exception to this contempt even if it also comes packaged with love and affection.

The problem is that firstly, conflating JGY's fear and resentment with 'contempt' is incorrect. JGY is capable of contempt but it's not his driving emotion and it's certainly not universal; a close read doesn't turn up many examples of him expressing contempt, or even many hints that he's suppressing contempt. Anger, and fear, and even cruelty, yes. Contempt or derision? Infrequent at best, and generally not directed at his loved ones.

Secondly, even if JGY did feel contempt towards everyone he encounters, LXC is an exception. LXC is always an exception. I'm not going to get into a debate about what 'harm' means, except to say that what really matters here is what JGY intends to communicate. @confusion-and-more has made the excellent point that a good way of conceptualising what JGY is communicating when he says he has never thought of harming LXC is that he has never and would never turn on LXC, and I think that's a good summation.

So yes, writing JGY thinking of LXC with contempt or derision is illustrative of a misreading of the text and I don't have much to say in terms of how fic or meta of that type is executed because the premise is not grounded in the source material.

In terms of JGY simply seeing LXC as stupid/silly/incompetent, I think that is coming from a slightly different place and that's where we have not only a misreading but also a failure of execution.

The misreading as far as I can tell begins as reasonable extrapolation: JGY has lived a difficult life and is supremely competent with domestic tasks, and LXC has lived a difficult but privileged life and is therefore inexperienced with domestic tasks. What happens is this is then stretched far beyond anything canon can support, and LXC is framed as inherently naive rather than simply inexperienced in this particular area. The laundry thing is cute and humorous, but the man is not constantly smashing guqins because he can't control his strength (though I would pay to see that fanart).

Critically, there is no evidence JGY considers LXC incompetent or incapable of acquiring these practical skills. There is also no evidence that JGY connects LXC's lack of these skills to any inherent incompetence or naiveté. He accuses LXC of naiveté once to my recollection, at the most heated moment possible during Guanyin, specifically in relation to LXC trying to come up with off the cuff solutions to insoluble problems JGY has had far more time to grapple with. It's in the most challenging and stressful context possible, and not in relation to LXC's ability to wash clothes. Reading LXC's inexperience in one specific area as evidence that he is incompetent or silly or naive is completely at odds with the way he comports himself throughout the rest of canon and the way JGY responds to him—with a little reminder, also, that the laundry titbit is word of god and not even part of the text itself.

However, I do still want to make that distinction about interpretation vs. execution. Having speculated about why these misinterpretations occur, I might as well comment on pitfalls when attempting to write Xiyao. And it really is a pitfall and writing is hard! I think (based on the considerations I put into my own writing) there is this desire to portray their relationship as affectionate and playful and lived-in, which is absolutely in line with their canon interactions. But how to do this? Well, naive rich boy being cutely incompetent at an ordinary task while the streetwise poor kid lovingly assists and maybe judges them a little bit is a great trope, and on the surface it seems like it matches really well to that Word of God laundry factoid. So it's easy to fall into writing Xiyao into a pre-existing popular framework and lose sight of whether it is actually consistent with canon. It's especially easy with this particular canon, where one of the core themes is 'nuance exists'—a theme that is not a comfortable match with fandom's tendency towards absolutism.

Essentially the issue is that traits or behaviours these characters display on one or two occasions in very specific contexts are being erroneously extrapolated to draw sweeping conclusions about core character traits. This happens even when the rest of the available evidence in canon contradicts the conclusions. Coupled with the difficulty in executing the nuanced, layered relationship we see in canon when writing fic, it's not surprising that this type of mischaracterisation is prevalent.

#ask #paledreamsblackmoths #roquen meta

[franniebanana]

CQL Rewatch - Ep 20

Iconic. Seeing Wei Wuxian back and better than ever is so satisfying! That flute playing that probably we’ve all forgotten about since the first two episodes becomes a repeating leitmotif throughout the series. It’s just as iconic as Wei Wuxian himself. And what I love about this shot here is how the light hits his eyes, and from this specific camera angle, it looks like a mask on his face! I just thought that was super cool. Whether it was intentional or not, I have no idea, but I like to think it was. I guess it’s like a reverse mask in this case—everything is hidden except his eyes.

It’s amazing how I only went without Wei Wuxian for like half an episode, yet it felt like so much longer. The emotional weight that he carries is so great that from all the characters searching for him, it feels like it’s actually been three months, instead of more like twenty-five minutes. And I think that’s something that we can feel in CQL but we can’t really feel in the book. Since the book is written in third person limited, we only see Wei Wuxian’s side of the story (I think that’s accurate, but it’s been a few months since I read it). That being the case, we never leave Wei Wuxian’s side, we never get to miss him being there. Of course the story is framed totally differently in the book and not in chronological order, even—lots of flip-flopping, which is fun but also a little confusing when you’re trying to keep track of a timeline.

I think part of what makes Wang Lingjao so creepy here is that her garish makeup is totally gone: her face is pale and ghoulish, with just the bright red blood trickling out of her nose, mouth, and cut on her cheek. I think they could have made her even more ghostly, but I like what they did for her apparition. It’s fun to see how fast Wen Chao cracks, though. He’s very much all bark and no bite—honestly, such a coward. On the one hand, it’s satisfying to watch him lose it, but on the other, it’s quite disturbing. I toe the line between enjoying it and being disgusted by it, but I love that CQL at least kept in this part of Wei Wuxian’s character. It’s like revenge, no matter how bloody, is okay in Chinese tv, but not the main character being kind of bad. I don’t get why they had to nerf his character to the point of absolving him of all guilt with everything that happened. I like a character who makes bad choices, but feels guilty for it, because that shows depth. Someone who bad things happen to because of the “real villain” aren’t as interesting to me. I think also that Xiao Zhan would have been amazing as the real Wei Wuxian from the book, had they adapted him that way. I also would have really, really loved to see the scene that is only really described to us (I think by Lan Xichen) where a distraught and delusional Wei Wuxian rejects Lan Wangji. Ugh, that would have been so heart-wrenching! Maybe in the donghua…sigh….

So this is important, I think. There was a point in the last episode where Jin Zixuan tells his cousin not to let the crows peck at the dead bodies of their enemies. In other words, don’t desecrate the bodies, even if they are the enemy. Of course, Jin Zixuan didn’t hold any personal grudges towards any of them, at least that we know of. Jiang Cheng certainly does. So even though Wang Lingjao is already dead by her own hand, he whips her with Zidian. Jiang Cheng is becoming more and more twisted by his anger and grief, which he never deals with in a healthy way. He wants revenge against those that have wronged him and his parents, and he really never stops seeking revenge throughout the story. First it’s against the Wens, and then it’s against Wei Wuxian. It’s a fairly slow descent, I think, over years, but I quite like watching him twist like this. While it’s fun and interesting watching someone repent and have a redemption arc, it’s also interesting watching them go the other way.

Lan Wangji seems to know, or at least suspect, that the person who has killed everyone in the Supervisory Office, including Wang Lingjao, is Wei Wuxian. A talent for using talismans (one of which Lan Wangji used himself to escape the Wens), someone who is seeking revenge against the Wen Clan—these things point to Wei Wuxian in his mind. He doesn’t want to say this to Jiang Cheng, he doesn’t even want to admit it himself, but he’s putting the pieces together. I think this is a frightening thought for him. On the one hand, he would be happy to find Wei Wuxian alive, but on the other, what state would they find him in? And what does it mean that he’s killed all these people singlehandedly? This isn’t the Wei Wuxian that Lan Wangji knows and cares so deeply about. This isn’t the man that Lan Wangji was ready to die for. I think his heart is very much filled with dread in this scene.

Jiang Cheng’s line is interesting too—basically, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Solid, really, but it does come with some problems in reality. The enemy of your enemy just might stab you in the back later. It’s a very simplistic view, but I think at this point, Jiang Cheng is just happy to see the Wens dead. There are a few he wants to kill himself, but he seems satisfied if they just die out, regardless of who does it.

I like seeing Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng team up for these few episodes, because it’s fun seeing how they each approach the situations. Jiang Cheng relies heavily on his heart and emotions, which I can totally identify with. He wants to find Wei Wuxian and he wants revenge on Wen Zhuliu and Wen Chao—those are his two priorities. And then Lan Wangji is definitely more of a logical person—he wants to get to the bottom of these deaths and find out who is the person with so much wicked energy that is doing all of it—and also, that person is probably Wei Wuxian, who he is very interested in finding. Here Jiang Cheng wants to rush after Wen Zhuiliu, just as he did when he went back to Lotus Pier. He’s very rash, while Lan Wangji is much more calm and collected. I mean, if it were me, I’d want to see if they would give up any information before I killed them.

And the reveal is…Wen Chao is fucking disgusting! I didn’t even want to screencap one of the close-ups, because I felt like I’d have to do a trigger warning for blood lol. Not really, though, because I never do, sorry. I love the looks on Jiang Cheng’s and Lan Wangji’s faces, though. Jiang Cheng is so horrified and Lan Wangji is just mildly shocked. I think the real thing is like, who are we dealing with here? Who is this monster who’s been murdering everyone in all these different ways? Who has made Wen Chao look like this? Is this friend or foe? Like I said, Jiang Cheng keeps saying that as long as the person is killing the Wens, he’s fine with it, but I think even he is bothered by this level of mutilation, even against someone he loathes.

It’s hilarious to me that Wen Zhuliu uses this tactic with Wen Chao. Oh, you’re going to insult me? I’m useless? Okay, bye! LOL. Also very amusing that this is really the last conversation they have with each other: this bickering that they’ve probably done over and over off screen. Wen Zhuliu stays by Wen Chao’s side, though, because he’s indebted to Wen Ruohan, of course. It would have been a neat twist to see Wen Zhuliu defect. And you still could have had a dramatic scene where Jiang Cheng chases him down.

I love it! I love it I love it I love it! The flute! This part is so well done (it’s still a little campy, of course, but that’s part of the charm)! I mean, as the audience, we all know who it is by now, but I love that they keep up the mystery because Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng still don’t know. They didn’t see him walk in. I just love this.

And shock. Jiang Cheng looks significantly more surprised. It had never crossed his mind that the person doing all this was actually Wei Wuxian, the very individual that he’s been searching for. Lan Wangji, on the other hand, doesn’t really look surprised. He looks a little surprised, okay—I’ll give you that. But I think most of what he’s feeling right now is the deep dread of being right. He wanted to be wrong, even when everything pointed to Wei Wuxian. I don’t think he wanted to believe that Wei Wuxian was capable of this, no matter how much he wanted to get revenge for what happened at Lotus Pier. I think there’s disappointment there too—how could he do such a thing? And I’ve giffed this scene with this quote: “He started to estrange her…And they became strangers who knew each other’s heart, so broken as they drifted apart” (Ana Claudia Antunes, Pierrot & Columbine). I think the realization here and a bit later for Lan Wangji that Wei Wuxian has become some other person is quite heartbreaking. He’s like a stranger to him, and that feeling of betrayal when you thought you knew a person inside and out—that hurts. It’s a deep-seated betrayal that Lan Wangji feels throughout this scene.

Oh, what I also like about this part is that when Wei Wuxian appears, neither one of them can look away. They are solely focused on him at this point.

He finally gets his revenge on Wen Zhuliu. And it’s great. They jump through the roof and he strings him up with Zidian. I can’t really say anything about it—Jiang Cheng needed to do this or he never would have been able to move on from Lotus Pier and his parents’ death.

WWX: Have I changed?

JC: No, not exactly.

I love that these lines are exchanged while the camera is on Lan Wangji. Lan Wangji already sees how Wei Wuxian has changed: the flute, the wicked energy, the almost senseless killing—none of these things are like the Wei Wuxian he’s come to love. And yes, I think love—and it hurts more because there is love. Lan Wangji wanted to walk the straight path with Wei Wuxian together, and he feels betrayed by what Wei Wuxian has done. Despite that, he still wants to help him. He implores Wei Wuxian to come back to Gusu with him so that they can help him and bring him back to the right path.

This whole scene feels like Lan Wangji isn’t even in the room, it’s like a private conversation between Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji just happens to overhear. He says nothing. He lets Jiang Cheng ask a hundred questions while Wei Wuxian calmly answers them. Wei Wuxian smiles and laughs, he seems himself, and yet he isn’t. There’s something wrong and Lan Wangji grows more and more perturbed by it as the seconds pass by.

The tension in this scene is palpable. It’s painful, it’s sad, it’s really hard for me to watch. And yet, this is one of my favorite scenes. Lan Wangji is feeling a lot, and he’s held it all in until this moment here. He calls him Wei Ying, and then Wei Wuxian in turn addresses him first as Second Master Lan, and then as Hanguang-Jun, both very formal names. It’s not Lan Zhan anymore—there is no familiarity on Wei Wuxian’s part. I think part of that is his attempt to protect Lan Wangji from any association with him that might actually harm Lan Wangji and his reputation. He’s setting a boundary—a wall—between them. And then when Lan Wangji bites back, Wei Wuxian changes tack: he stars being informal with him again, he brings up how they were good friends, classmates, etc. But that’s not going to work because Lan Wangji is feeling pretty upset right now.

Lan Wangji is desperate, scared, and worried for Wei Wuxian. Sometimes when we’re feeling all that, it can come across as anger, and that becomes worse when someone is dismissive of those feelings. Wei Wuxian is definitely dismissive here. In their interactions, Lan Wangji rarely shows this much emotion, and instead of paying attention to that, Wei Wuxian brushes it off. Jiang Cheng shows that he cares by hugging Wei Wuxian, but Lan Wangji is different—he’s thinking ahead, he’s seeing what Wei Wuxian has started to mess with—demonic cultivation—which can destroy a person’s mind, and he’s terrified. His only thought is to take Wei Wuxian away and try to change him for the better. Of course, just like what his father did to his mother, this cannot work. Even if Lan Wangji manages to force Wei Wuxian to come with him, he won’t be able to control him. All Lan Wangji can really do is try to persuade him.

The intensity of Lan Wangji’s gaze here is something else. This is a man who is desperate to save the person he loves. He is really looking out for Wei Wuxian’s best interests here and is getting no support from Jiang Cheng. I don’t really know what’s going on in Jiang Cheng’s head right now, but he’s definitely finding Lan Wangji’s behavior offensive. He doesn’t understand that Wei Wuxian’s actions will lead to his ultimate destruction, while it is very clear to Lan Wangji. But all I can do here is bring up how they viewed the person who was killing all the Wens earlier, before they even knew who it was. Lan Wangji felt very unnerved by it: he was disturbed by the talismans and disturbed by the various manners of death, while Jiang Cheng’s stance always was that it didn’t matter because the person was clearly on the same side—a dead Wen is a dead Wen no matter who is behind it. And his opinion doesn’t change even after he finds out. It’s not important to him how Wei Wuxian was able to kill all those people. He asks the questions, but he isn’t interested in really hearing the answer. On the contrary, I think Lan Wangji is very interested in those answers, but he wants to hear about it in a controlled environment. He doesn’t want Wei Wuxian to go back to Yunmeng, where he will essentially live with free-rein without boundaries.

As for cinematography, I love how Wei Wuxian holds up his flute here, setting up a literal boundary between him and Lan Wangji. Not only do you have Jiang Cheng creating that wall with his sword, you also have Wei Wuxian. What I mean is, it’s not only Jiang Cheng who wants to keep Lan Wangji out. Wei Wuxian is drawing a line here too: he wants Lan Wangji to stay out of his business. And this morphs into, what happens at this place is not Gusu Lans’ business—it only concerns Yunmeng Jiang Sect.

We all know Wei Wuxian is an arrogant person, but his arrogance and ignorance here is truly stunning. Lan Wangji tells him point-blank that he won’t be able to control this energy if he uses demonic cultivation, and Wei Wuxian does everything but laugh at him. I enjoy this and I hate it at the same time, because Lan Wangji is just fucking worried, you know? And maybe he doesn’t express himself well, but he’s shocked to see Wei Wuxian here, shocked that he’s responsible for all this—he can’t stay calm and collected under these conditions.

In just a few minutes, Wei Wuxian says that he and Lan Wangji are good friends and that Lan Wangji should treat him better, as well as “Who do you think you are? What I do is none of your business.” I’m paraphrasing, but that’s the gist. This scene here, with their faces so close to each other, kills me. This is absolute betrayal for Lan Wangji. It’s as if everything they had built together—all the respect, the affection, the comradery—is gone. The Wei Wuxian that he knew is gone.

I love the way this shot is framed, with Wei Wuxian staring after Lan Wangji, and then Wen Chao pleading, “Forgive me, forgive me.” So apt, because I think Wei Wuxian does feel bad here, I think he feels guilty. I think part of him really missed Lan Wangji and wanted to see him. I think he even knows that what Lan Wangji is doing is out of concern for him over anything else. But I also think Wei Wuxian’s pride gets in the way of that, and his desire for revenge, and even his desire for things to go back to normal. More than anything, Wei Wuxian wants to return to Yunmeng, to his shijie, to be able to live normally again, whatever that really means, because of course everything has changed. Nothing will ever be as it was again. More importantly, he has changed, and can never go back to the person he was before, the person who played so hard, the person who shirked his responsibilities and fooled around in classes, the person who shamelessly teased and flirted with Lan Wangji. That Wei Wuxian is gone. I think Wei Wuxian knows he’s hurt Lan Wangji and does feel bad about it, but he knows he has to push him away to protect him. He doesn’t want to drag Lan Wangji down with him, he feels it’s better this way. And I think, even though CQL!Wei Wuxian does have feelings for Lan Wangji quite a bit earlier than in the book, you can see the one-sided love here, in Lan Wangji’s aggressive behavior as he attempts to save this person he loves. Lan Wangji isn’t willing to give up on him, whereas Wei Wuxian is more prepared to let him go—to push him away to protect him. That’s love too, I suppose, but it’s a love that is meant to be from afar—a sad love, not a passionate one, not a desperate one, not the one that Lan Wangji feels for him.

This is so heartbreaking for Lan Wangji, in part, because they had such a special relationship before. Prior to this, Wei Wuxian prided himself in that he and Lan Wangji went on night hunts together—the clan didn’t matter, whether that was unorthodox or not. And now to see him use his clan as a barrier between them…it’s quite a betrayal. Lan Wangji feels so hurt, so at a loss—he wonders what could he have done differently to prevent this, he blames himself.

This is one of my favorite episodes because of this reunion scene. What you expect is some great reunion, the hugging between Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, maybe a smile from Lan Wangji because he’s really happy to see him. But instead, you get pain. You get a Jiang Cheng hugging Wei Wuxian, but Wei Wuxian not even returning the hug (he only raises his arm to signal that he wants to break apart). You get a heated confrontation between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian, one that is “fondly” thought of as their break-up scene. I love the drama, I love the pain, I love the angst, I love the dichotomy between Yunmeng Jiang and Gusu Lan, I love that this is the start of more tension between Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji, I love everything about it. The “us and them” dynamic that starts here is so great, and then to see it slowly unravel throughout the next ten episodes, to see Wei Wuxian’s and Jiang Cheng’s relationship fall apart, while Wei Wuxian’s and Lan Wangji’s relationship begins to strengthen again--I eat it up. It’s like my candy. Anyway, I’m excited for what’s to come, excited to talk more wangxian and how it compares to the book (from my dwindling knowledge, that is)! Happy that you all are coming along this ride with me!

Other episodes: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 |

#cql #the untamed #wangxian #lan wangji #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wwx #lwj #wang lingjiao #wen chao #wen zhuliu #cql rewatch #ep 20

[admirableadmiranda]

Just a silly rumble of words; I didn't get into any of the works till this very year (first week January), at the loving pushing of a friend who wanted to drag me into the fandom pit. I watched 28 eps of the untamed and couldn't get past that cus of how we were stuck in the past and it was all very depressing and maddening lol. I picked up the novel and had no issues finishing it. To say it was a jarring experience finishing the novel and going into fandom spaces and the overwhelming love and stans of JC, I felt like I had walked into the twilight zone. I kept reading posts on him and thinking I had gotten the name wrong because I was seeing zero link in the slightest(I would even wiki names), then it became undeniable it was definitely 'him'. The fanart was the final nail in the coffin, why was so much of it with wwx and JC speaking after the end; a thing? It was overwhelmingly clear it was a mutual cut off and neither had a desire for the other to be around them. Every form of media I wanted to engage with all had that, I couldn't read fanfics, look at most art, even written analysis posts it was so OOC. I actively went looking for posts on why they liked JC, why they thought this and that, and every time it was just 'but he objectively didnt' 'that didn't happen though' It felt very isolating and confusing because I generally wanted to take an active part in the space. I can't say the JC rewrite was the only issue but rewriting in general was a very big problem in general. I even watched scenes and videos to see if the drama held weight to create this character but even then he was written in a more pitiful and likeable light but I still personally didn't feel it was fully justified. I'm all for liking unlikeable characters but this character wasn't even a shadow of the canon character I knew and I went in wanting and willing to understand and love him. I was (am) beyond excited to find people who did analysis posts and created spaces that follow the novel, I blocked tags, followed blogs, made a little space that was limited content but it was still content. To say I'm just exhausted and frustrated over this whole 'discourse' event, is putting it lightly. I always got push over content that didn't fit my taste but I would just move past it. My friend is even a fan of JC but openly admits to not enjoying the novel so only takes the 'lore' of the drama as real and we've never had any issues, I'll even send those push over posts of JC that come on my tl to them. It feels like we created a home on a mountain, happily existing in peace and then people come storming in saying we're evil and ruining their experience and active haters out to ruin the fandom. It's just bewildering, with all this being said thank you to you and all the other content creators for the content and I'm sorry and sad you're getting harassed for creating it but pls know it's very much appreciated and wanted. (And needed for my sanity lol)

Ah anon, I understand your cql burnout there. I myself had to skip from around the fall of Lotus Pier up to episode 33 in order to actually watch it as the backstory is just too long and really ruins the framing of present day and backstory that the book does so well.

I understand your confusion and frustration there. I had a lot of those same experiences when I joined the fandom, of being confused and bewildered at all this stuff that either vaguely or completely contradicted the book. It took me accidentally stumbling across a blog that actively did not like Jiang Cheng to revive my fandom love and then stumbling into a wonderful friend group that were happy to have me too in order to finally really start enjoying MDZS fandom. Sort of the same thing you did, only with more active pushback against fandom narratives.

Thank you very much for your kind words. It is currently a very frustrating time, but I won’t give in and let them have the tag. I conceded one fight, I won’t give in on this one.

The wheel continues to turn and people move with it. It will not always be this frustrating.

<3

#asks #anon #anon asks #sweet anons

[melatovnik]

ok ur top faves wangxian fics go

hey yati! 🥰️

alright, so first things first, here’s a big wangxian fic rec list i made a while ago, if you wanna check that one out too! consider the list below part 2. these are all my faves so far since my last rec list (as you'll quickly see, i have a LOT of faves).

and just a fyi/psa/disclaimer for anyone reading this: some of these fics have disturbing themes and/or kinky/freaky sex! make sure to check the authors’ tags and notes before reading. also, much like my first rec list, there’s going to be a mix of mdzs and cql canon, characterizations, dynamics, etc., so bear that in mind.

....ok GO

live from new york by varnes | rated E | 87K words | THE snl au fic!!!! yes, by snl i mean saturday night live. this is perhaps the best and funniest story i've ever read, period. varnes is a fucking genius. read this fic.

Wei Ying lets out a long, ugly groan. “I am fine, Lan Zhan. Everybody is overreacting, it’s so embarrassing for all of you.”

“You had undiagnosed pneumonia, which you walked around with for weeks until you passed out during dress,” Lan Wangji corrects him. “It got a big laugh, until everyone thought you were dead.”

He keeps his voice even and does not tell Wei Ying that it had been Lan Wangji who caught him, who called the ambulance, and who rode with him to the hospital, where he was yelled at by nurses who wanted to know why he hadn’t noticed that Wei Ying couldn’t stop shivering or string proper sentences together.

“Rumors of my demise have been vastly overstated,” Wei Ying says. “Anyway, I’m already feeling much better. Basically fine. Really almost completely back to normal, so stop babying me and tell me why the fuck you let your stupid brother hire the worst man in the world to host our show.”

-

OR: the one where they all work at SNL, Yanli's ex-boyfriend is hosting, and that's just the beginning of everybody's problems.

swiss cheese theory by varnes | rated M | 19K words | sequel to snl au fic!!!!!! another must-read.

The Swiss Cheese model of accident causation likens human system defences to a series of slices of randomly-holed Swiss Cheese arranged vertically and parallel to each other with gaps in-between each slice. Defences against failure are modelled as a series of barriers, represented as slices of the cheese. The holes in the cheese slices represent individual weaknesses in individual parts of the system. The system as a whole produces failures when holes in all of the slices momentarily align, permitting "a trajectory of accident opportunity," so that a hazard passes through holes in all of the defences, leading to an accident.

OR: Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian go to the courthouse.

OR: “Sweethearts,” the city clerk had said, very gently, “you’re already married.”

best friends forever by varnes | rated T | 17K words | alright, so like, strictly speaking, wangxian isn't the focus of this fic, BUT. this fic is so good!! it is seriously so good, and it made me fall in love with jin ling/lan jingyi. also, it's varnes, so read it!

It happened like this: Jin Ling was a sect leader now, which was, and Jingyi really meant this, fucking hilarious. There were few things funnier, in his honest opinion.

Because he was young, and inexperienced, and also — it had to be said — a real shithead, there was apparently some belief amongst his advisors that the best way forward, to promote the picture of a stable, mature sect leader who absolutely did not cry at the drop of a hat, was for Jin Ling to get married.

-

OR: Jin Ling and Jingyi get engaged.

Things spiral from there.

For a Good Time, Call by ScarlettStorm | rated E | 171K words

The picture is of Wei Ying, that much is clear. It’s of a lot more of Wei Ying than Lan Zhan is used to seeing. He supposes that, technically, Wei Ying is dressed. It’s a bare technicality, since one of Wei Ying’s hands has rucked up his black tank top practically to his collarbone, showing a long expanse of abdomen and one nipple. Sweat beads on his sternum, catching the light like jewels. His other hand is--Lan Zhan feels his eyes widen, as though unable to look away from a train wreck--on his hip, one thumb tugging down the waistband of a pair of red briefs. Wei Ying is biting his lower lip and looking directly into the camera, sultry, his eyes dark and inviting. His erection is obvious, outlined against the red of the briefs and framed carefully with the hand on his hip. Lan Zhan’s brain goes wildly, screamingly blank.

Or: Lan Zhan accidentally finds his best friend's OnlyFans account and has an ongoing emotional crisis.

love, in fire and blood by cicer | rated E | 360K words | i actually haven't finished this one since i was reading it when it was a WIP, i need to reread it and catch up fjdskl;fjsd, but i love it very much!!!!!! oh my god he wanted to look nice for his husband..... 🙃 [screams with mouth closed]

"You want Wen Ruohan dead," the Patriarch continued idly. "You want his corpse puppets eliminated. You want his halls burned to the ground and his soldiers disemboweled and begging for mercy. Have I about covered it?"

He gave another knife-edged smile.

"But what will you give me in return?"

"We would be willing to offer quite a bit in return for Wen Ruohan's defeat," Lan Xichen admitted. "But I'm afraid we don't know what an immortal such as yourself desires. Please advise us."

The Patriarch waved at hand at the front of the tent. "I want Second Young Master Lan."

(In which the Sunshot Campaign ends through an arranged marriage to the Yiling Patriarch, and Lan Wangji suffers the mortifying ordeal of falling in love with his own husband.)

how to fall in love with a catfish: a guide by wei wuxian (disaster rat) by bwyn & Yuisaki | rated T | 55K words

A new plan hatches in Wei Wuxian’s head. If this nocturnal, bottom-feeding, slimy, invasive mudcat posing as a beautiful actor thinks he can sway Wei Wuxian with animal pictures and a sob story and an unbelievably stilted way of texting with still no dick pictures in the first five minutes of conversation, he has another thing coming. Wei Wuxian’s got it, alright, he has this in the fucking bag.

~

Wei Wuxian plots to expose a catfish using strategic memes and turtle pictures while wiggling his way out of family dinner. Lan Wangji just wants companions.

there’s no promised goodbye here by Yuisaki | rated T | 54K words

Jiang Cheng stares at him. “Didn’t you say you broke up five months ago?”

“Yeah.”

“So why do you have a picture of you two kissing taped to your fridge?”

“Because we’re too broke for magnets,” Wei Wuxian explains, then considers that statement. “Well, I’m too broke for magnets. Lan Zhan probably refuses to buy them because he’s trying to have lofty ideas about the moral failings of materialism.”

~

Wei Wuxian navigates the trials of living with his ex-boyfriend in apartment 1301.

paint smears on sunny days by SnowshadowAO3 | rated E | 54K words

To say that he runs to his car would be incorrect, as he is a Lan, and running is both undignified and unnecessary unless in immediate danger. Nor does he slam his key into the ignition, or aggressively swerve around the cars on the freeway, or have a mild panic attack at the fact he is picking A-Yuan up late from school for the first time ever.

He comes close, though.

By the time he arrives, it’s 4:35PM, and he has imagined about fifty different worse-case scenarios. The door is partly open when he gets to it, a messy label of 104B—Art Room scrawled with chalk on a placard next to the faded wood. As he opens it fully, he expects to see a wailing, terrified child, or perhaps a scene of utter misery and betrayal.

What he finds is his son, hands covered in paint, being sung to by a beautiful, dark-haired stranger.

“Ducks live in the pond, yellow ducks, happy ducks!”

Lan Wangji stops in his tracks.

(Or: Falling in love with your son’s art teacher, in five parts)

a paper friend by sunzu | rated G | 5K words

Lan Wangji finds a paperman far from its body and helps get it home.

-Or-

Lan Wangji unknowingly meets Wei Wuxian for the first time.

All Caught Up by brooklinegirl | rated E | 37K words

"Betrothed," Wei Ying says indignantly.

Lan Wangji can't stop his gaze from darting up to him. Wei Ying understands. Wei Ying is looking at him, wide-eyed and upset on his behalf.

"And you don't even like her," Wei Ying says.

"I don't even know her," Lan Wangji says quietly.

"But even if you did—" Wei Ying starts.

"I wouldn't want this," Lan Wangji finishes.

Lead Me On Through by mrsronweasley | rated E | 55K words | oh look another canon-era practice kissing fic fjdskfl;ds

"Who do you think your betrothed is?" Wei Wuxian asks, sprawling out in front of Lan Zhan and enjoying the prim thinning of his lips at the question. He shouldn't be sprawling—they're in the library, for one, and Lan Zhan is studying, for another—but he can't help himself. Wei Wuxian is a sprawler.

"I do not believe this to be of importance," Lan Zhan responds, without turning his gaze away from his book.

"What!" Wei Wuxian sits up. "How can you say that? Of course it's important! This is the person you'll be with for the rest of your life, Lan Zhan."

I Started From the Bottom/And Now I'm Rich by x_los | rated E | 58K words | ok so i know that in my spiel above i said to mind the tags, etc., but actually pay no mind to the first two relationship tags for this fic. i PROMISE that this isn't that sort of dead dove fic fjdksl;fjs;lifkj. i. it. it's wangxian. don't sweat it. don't even trip. just—this fic fucking rules. it's completely insane and it slaps. wei ying is a girlboss and a bitch and i like her So Much

“First, you get the money. Then you get the power, respect - hos come last.”

Wen Qing traps Wei Wuxian in the Demon Slaughtering Cave, but Wei Wuxian isn’t interested in being the beneficiary of the Wen Remnants’ noble sacrifice. His efforts to free himself accidentally send him back to the beginning of the Sunshot Campaign. Coreless but armed with demonic cultivation, knowledge of the future and his wits, Wei Wuxian takes advantage of this opportunity to come out on top of both the war and its aftermath—before either has a chance to happen—by marrying and swiftly burying the cultivation world’s worst men.

Lan Wangji is confused, hurt, and uncomfortably aroused by Wei Wuxian’s improbably elaborate series of Sect-themed bridal negligees.

rather cruelly used and rather reserved by x_los | rated M | 14K words

In the month between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian leaving Yi City and their attending the cultivation conference in Lanling, Wei Wuxian discovers a locked room in the Jingshi. It is a mystery that clever and curious Wei Wuxian is doing everything in his power to avoid solving.

But the rose was awake all night for your sake/Knowing your promise to me by x_los | rated E | 8K words | resentment tenties~

The resentful energy occupying Wei Wuxian's body like an enemy army is very interested in giving him Lan Wangji, tied up with a bow.

Wei Wuxian is hoping that Lan Wangji (who is far too noble and very keen to save Wei Wuxian's misguided soul) doesn't find out about any aspect of that.

Mo Money, Mo Problems by x_los | rated M | 3K words

After the Mo family perishes in distressing and mysterious circumstances, Wei Wuxian, still reeling from his reincarnation, tries to dip back into their manor for a little travelling money. (Forward planning! What a concept!) Lan Wangji catches him immediately, and is highly unimpressed (read: furious) with Wei Wuxian’s decision to run away from him in the first place.

Standing Engagement by x_los | rated M | 18K words

Lan Wangji believes he and Wei Wuxian are essentially engaged. While they search for his missing betrothed, he accidentally reveals as much to Jiang Wanyin. Now everyone in the cultivation world knows about the imminent marriage, except for Wei Wuxian himself.

Coming Back to Yourself by acernor | rated E | 22K words | genital swapping for fun and nonprofit!

Lan Wangji gets cursed with a ~woman's body~ and has to orgasm to go back. Since he's 1) a virgin 2) super repressed and 3) SUPER gay, he has no idea what to do.

If only he had a super nosy friend who's read lots of erotic novels who could help him figure out what to do... hm...

Save a Sword by etymologyplayground | rated E | 5K words | a fic inspired by the above fic!

Lan WangJi presses a kiss into his throat, which draws a shivering whine from him. "Like this," he agrees, his voice so low. Then he slides one warm elegant hand down Wei WuXian's chest to his belly, and then to his — to his —

--

fan ending for acernor's fabulous masterpiece "coming back to yourself" because i'm a huge goofball and that fic fucks

Our Eyes on the Road by etymologyplayground | rated E | 23K words | brought to you by lore (the author) and Orville Peck's hit song Drive Me, Crazy

Lan Zhan is silent for a long moment, and the van's speakers quietly pipe the second song on the album into the empty space between them. Then Lan Zhan shifts his hand a little on Wei Ying's leg, presses his fingers once into the meat of his thigh. "Alright," he says.

"Alright," Wei Ying echoes in a wheeze.

"Is that better?" Lan Zhan checks, because he is a good boy. Then he spreads his fingers out a little wider, because he is evil and must be stopped.

-

Lan Zhan is driving to Chicago. Wei Ying tags along.

Worship you till morning comes by feyburner | rated E | 7K words

A meet-cute, a first date, a sleepover.

Let's take a ride round the curves of desire by feyburner | rated E | 6K words | yeah........... uhh, yeah.

Wei Ying was sprawled on the floor in front of the oscillating fan when Lan Zhan got home from work.

The Roots Grow Riotous by hansbekhart | rated E | 105K words | a beautifully crafted, emotionally harrowing fic. i should warn you (since it's not quite tagged as such) that while wangxian is endgame, the overall story doesn't have the sort of happily-ever-after ending you might expect. i’ve seen it described as open-ended but hopeful and cathartic, which i find to be a pretty accurate assessment

Sometimes Lan Zhan doesn’t work through lunch. Sometimes he makes conversation with coworkers in the halls. Sometimes he goes home instead of spending the last hour trawling through Grindr. But mostly, that’s exactly what he does. The sameness is comforting. His life spools out in easily measured increments: capsule collections, yards of hand dyed textiles, ninety day lead times, sell through figures, cost of goods sold.

Every date in manufacturing can be calculated backwards and forward from a single horizon point: the date that the goods must arrive into the country where they'll be sold. Other than that, nothing else really matters.

总有一天; a place to hide (can’t find one near) by yiqie | rated E | 76K words | i can't recall a fic ever affecting me as much as this one did. one of the best stories i've ever read. so, so, so crushingly beautiful. it's viscerally distressing/upsetting at times, especially at the start, so please heed the tags and author's note (they provide a way to skip the beginning scene if needed)!

That’s just the thing, isn’t it? Wei Ying feels nothing. He doesn’t feel anything, and this emptiness should scare him. He knows he should be scared. He wants to be scared. He isn’t. Fear itself is never scary; fear is just a response. It means that your body wants you alive. It’s the absence of terror that scares him.

请兔子吃晚饭; treating a bunny to dinner by yiqie | rated T | 3K words | read this one to recover from the above fic

It’s not really about the food. Being able to share it in the same space is its own kind of magic.

爱不释手; never let me go by yiqie | rated E | 69K words | and then read this one to feel harrowed again, this time in canon-verse!

Wei Wuxian has certainly hoped so ardently in his two lifetimes, for so many different things, in so many different ways, that he could have summoned the demon to his front door with his bare hands. His eyes wander to Lan Zhan, settle on the back of his head, the blue-black curtain of his hair. Oh, how he has hoped.

在此恭迎夷陵老祖; to yiling laozu, the great and venerable by yiqie | rated M | 7K words | read this one to recover from the above fic (this time in canon-verse)

“You don’t know? In Yiling, there’s a tree at the edge of town, one that stands at the fringes of where the city ends and the Burial Mounds begin, called the Lover’s Tree. They say if you write a letter and nail it to its branches, Yiling Laozu will receive it, and he’ll reply.”

你的阳光下; wanna hide in your light by yiqie | rated T | 2K words | :')

Lan Zhan shuts off the water before it can start getting cold, because Wei Ying still needs to take one. Any other day, Wei Ying would have slunk in, pretending to be annoyed that Lan Zhan started without him, and neither of them would have want for hot water, but Wei Ying is still asleep.

From my heart's ground. by orange_crushed | rated E | 38K words | get (orange) CRUSHED!!!!!!!

After a while he can feel a palm against his face, gentle fingers soft and soothing. It’s not real, not exactly: he can tell the difference between a ghost’s touch and a living person’s, between a spirit-vision and an overactive imagination. His education has been thorough. But the beating has also been thorough, so for now he forgets what he knows and leans into it, into the hand cupping his cheek. It’s soft and dry as those forgotten petals, as the touch of a pillow. He can smell wildflowers, can taste blood and dirt. My baby, his mother says, and he closes his eyes. My treasure. He barely remembers the sound of her voice, but the feeling of it is just the same. Just the same as ever.

[In which Lan Wangji loses almost everything, plants a garden, and grows a second chance.]

Pentimento. by orange_crushed | rated E | 73K words | this fic briefly gave me a serious case of career envy :/ ......but seriously, this is an absolute must-read!!!

When Wangji was eighteen he’d walked into the first class of his fall semester painting module and there’d been a boy in a hilariously ugly floppy knit hat sitting cross-legged on the floor at the front of the room. He’d had a sheet of canvas paper taped to his board and his board clamped between his legs and a tackle box of brushes and tubes—a real fishing tackle box, with a fish-shaped logo on it that said BASS, not one of the nice art supply storage boxes they sold in the campus bookstore, like the one Wangji was carrying—open beside him. Everyone else had settled into the rows of stools and easels, but that boy had stayed on the floor for the whole two hour and thirty minute studio. Wangji had looked at him and thought, that idiot’s back is going to hurt.

[Former best friends Lan Wangji, paintings conservator, and Wei Wuxian, art handler, meet again and realize... neither of them were actually in unrequited love.]

Many happy returns. by orange_crushed | rated E | 25K words

His fingers are still clasped between Wangji's. In the mirror Wangji watches him tuck his coat between his thighs so that he can fuss with the tucked-in hem of his shirt, tousle up the side of his hair, all one-handed. "I hope what I'm wearing is okay."

"It's good," Wangji says. "You look good."

"I guess I must," Wei Ying says, and then he smiles and bites his teeth into his bottom lip for a second, devastatingly, and before Wangji can drop dead the doors to the elevator slide open, and the hostess station appears.

[In which lonely businessman Lan Wangji meets the right wrong person and changes the course of his life.]

The dreamers. by orange_crushed | rated E | 17K words

“Stop mothering me,” Wei Ying protests. “Why don’t you ever listen?” He scowls at Wangji, but then the lure of the clean water is too much; he sits grumbling and strips off his vambraces and loosens the collar of his robes and wipes himself down in the steam. Wangji sits on a stool and watches him, and after a while Wei Ying slaps the rag into the bowl and glares back. “Are you going to sit and stare the whole time?” he demands. “You want to see me strip naked and give my filthy evil self a good scrubbing, huh?”

Yes, Wangji thinks.

[This is a story about a horrible war and a beautiful dream; about grabbing happiness where you can find it, and not letting go.]

mercy, tear it down. by orange_crushed | rated E | 31K words

“You want me to call you good?” Wangji says. “To make you feel good?” Wei Ying makes a wretched, soft, surprised sound in the back of his throat. “Then will you be good?”

“Uh,” Wei Ying says. His lashes flick down again, nervously. “Good how?”

Wangji hasn’t quite thought that far ahead.

Kingfisher Feathers by Anonymous | rated E | 83K words | WIP (7/10 chapters, last updated 4/13/21) | omg omegaverse!!!! @/ this anon author... keep up the great work! also i have feelings for u

With an almost trance-like detachment, Wei Wuxian touched his own neck, his fingers skimming over the fresh mark. The bite wound had stopped bleeding, although he had no doubts it would open again if agitated.

Bonded.

He was bonded for life.

"Shit," he whispered. He looked over at the sleeping form of Lan Wangji—the Second Prince of Gusu and, until his brother was found, the sole heir to the throne. "Oh, shit. Lan Qiren is going to kill me."

----------

Lan Wangji goes into a fevered rut and accidentally bonds with Wei Wuxian. When they next meet, he remembers none of it, and Wei Wuxian is determined to keep the bond a secret—even when he's sent to the Cloud Recesses to be a consort in Lan Wangji's harem.

(tl;dr concubine!wwx is already married to emperor!lwj, who has no idea. drama ensues.)

Pull out game weak by 74243 | rated E | 23K words | featuring the hottest meanest dom top lesbian lwj of your wildest dreams. i hope ao3 user 74243 is having an amazing day

Wei Ying swipes right.

Extra Time by Anonymous | rated E | 28K words | fic inspired by the above fic! seriously good

How Wei Ying learned to stop worrying and love the strap (an AU of 74243's Pull out game weak)

Superfan by 74243 | rated E | 19K words | ao3 user 74243 writing banger after banger as per usual

“I’m not going to apologize for my job,” Wei Ying said, “so if you want to give me some kind of lecture--”

“No,” Lan Zhan said. “You misunderstood. I am...” she paused, as if considering the best way to put it. “I’m a fan.”

Spit in my mouth, look in my eyes by 74243 | rated E | 7K works | i'm just going to list all of ao3 user 74243's fics, ok? that's what's gonna happen here

Wei Wuxian was a little surprised herself, although she felt bad for being surprised. Of course it didn’t really mean anything about you, how you presented, Wei Wuxian knew that better than anyone, but all the same it was hard to reconcile Lan Zhan as an omega.

(wwx makes an error of judgment)

If the shoe fits by 74243 | rated E | 8K words

Wei Ying loses a bet.

the And they were roommates series by 74243 | rated E | 19K words total

That was the other thing, when Wei Ying had moved in. She’d scented Lan Zhan immediately, the sandalwood and smoke rising off her, almost before she’d taken in Lan Zhan’s straight posture, her narrowed eyes. She’d known that Lan Zhan could tell, too. At the end, when they’d talked about the rent and Lan Zhan’s nearly finished PhD and Wei Ying’s working hours, Wei Ying had said, casual and effortless, “And you don’t mind that I’m an omega.”

“No,” Lan Zhan said.

Chef's kiss by 74243 | rated E | 7K words

Wei Ying said, “You know, in some ways I’m kind of depressed. I took your biggest dick on my first try. Now I don’t have anything to build up to.”

“There are bigger ones available,” Lan Zhan said lazily. “I can pay for express shipping.”

(Lan Zhan works the late shift.)

Gold-palmed Warrior Quest! by 74243 | rated E | 13K words

When Lan Wangji suggested that they camp along the way to the Unclean Realm, rather than staying at inns, Wei Wuxian had been sceptical.

Dway! by 74243 | rated E | 6K words

“Hm,” Wei Ying said. “You like it rough, though, right? You seem like that kind of alpha.” When she saw Lan Zhan’s expression she raised an eyebrow. “What? Was I wrong? Are you tender and sweet? Do you cry?”

“You were not wrong,” Lan Zhan said. “I do not cry. Do you?”

tgif by 74243 | rated E | 17K words

Today Lan Zhan says that if Wei Ying cannot control her mouth then she will have to tape it shut.

On the ground by 74243 | rated E | 5K words

“I think you will like it,” Lan Zhan said.

Does your mother know by 74243 | rated E | 5K words | editing this rec list on a monday morning to add this brand new fic fresh off the presses. thank u ao3 user 74243 for feeding us so well 🙏

“Lan Zhan is such a well-behaved girl,” Madam Yu said.

all that and more by Euphorion | rated E | 20K words

Wei Wuxian locks his phone and puts it down, blinks at his ceiling, and picks it up again. The pictures are still there.

His first thought is that Lan Zhan meant them for someone else. That he just woke up at—he checks the timestamp—6:30 am on a Sunday and decided to go absolute full nuclear seduction option on some poor boy he met on Grindr, who would now be missing out on the best thing to ever happen to him because Wei Wuxian had a bad habit of distracting—of—oh.

Pieces of last night start to resurface and paste themselves together in his head. He winces.

The Golden Cutsleeve by syrus_jones | rated E | 77K words | of my faves, this is one of my favorite... faves. top faves. incredibly fun and silly and hot. just... oh my GOD, wei YING!

“I know! Why don’t you try it? Let me go and I’ll lend it to you!” Wei Wuxian bribed hysterically, desperate to escape from this encounter by any means necessary. And then, his eyes blew wide, realizing what he just said. ‘Wait— just what am I offering Lan Zhan?!’ he thought. How was he so stupid, how did he just offer that without thinking—

“You want me...to use it… after you?” Lan Zhan asked, his voice unusually faint.

~*~

Wei Wuxian's test of mysterious, literally magical sex toy goes awry when Lan Wangji finds him in the woods 'experimenting' with it and it ends up in Lan Wangji's possession.

Unfortunately, neither of them is aware that the toy is anchored to Wei Wuxian's body. Too bad Wei Wuxian invited him to try it.

Boy Trouble, We've Got Double by saltyfeathers | rated E | 60K words | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is a really good fic

Lan Zhan stands there in his immaculate, cloud-patterned Lan robes, watching him calmly, one fist tucked up against his back. “I am betrothed.”

Wei Wuxian blinks. “Are you…” He tries to laugh. Again, it sounds inhuman. “Is this about last night? Are you mad at me? I only remember some of it, Lan Zhan. I’m sorry if I made you uncomfortable. I’m sure whatever I did I was just—” He gestures uselessly. He remembers being warm in Lan Zhan’s lap. He remembers fitting snugly in Lan Zhan’s lap. Wrapping his arms around Lan Zhan’s neck. Nosing at his jaw. “…playing around.”

“This has nothing to do with you, Wei Wuxian.”

none in the forest so bright as these by saltyfeathers | rated E | 6K words

Wei Wuxian puts a hand to his head, brain lost in fog. “Lan Zhan,” he pants. “Why are we here? Are we on a hunt?”

As Lan Zhan tries to remember, his brow furrows. He shakes his head slightly. “I don’t know.”

“This is bad,” Wei Wuxian says. When Lan Zhan cups his cheek again, sparks burst behind Wei Wuxian’s eyes. “Or maybe it’s not,” he says unthinkingly. Sighs, almost. Lan Zhan looks at his own arm like it's betrayed him. Wei Wuxian closes his eyes and presses his face into Lan Zhan’s palm. “Lan Zhan, Lan Zhan,” he murmurs. “What’s happening to us?”

out in the garden, there’s things you hid away by saltyfeathers | rated E | 121K words | oww oww oww 😣😣😣💘

There is a man with empty eye sockets and tears of fire in Wei Wuxian’s dreams. Tendrils of smoke curl around him in sleep, pressing at his most vulnerable spots, seeking entrance, slipping between his ribs.

When he ignores Lan Zhan's offers of help, he declines rapidly. He will die. Or, he should. Anyone else would.

Instead, he flees. And transforms.

crawling through your door by saltyfeathers | rated E | 12K words

Lan Wangji kisses him. When he pulls away, he speaks into the silence between them, because when he is with Wei Ying, he so rarely considers. “Why don’t you touch me anymore?”

Lan Zhan Works for the Historical Society by saltyfeathers | rated E | 7K words | some real real good lesbian action up in here

Pretty Lan Zhan. Beautiful Lan Zhan. Ice queen Lan Zhan. So intimidating and femme and coldly polite in public, yet meaner than a man in the bedroom. Wei Ying has slept with men before and none of them were mean-nice to her like Lan Zhan.

threadfic by saltyfeathers | not rated (each chapter rated/tagged individually) | 34K+ words | WIP (11/? chapters, last updated 3/15/21), but it’s a collection of stand-alone oneshots

semi cleaned-up wangxian twitter threadfic.

【已經打動我的心】So Sing To Me All Night by aroceu | rated T | 10K words | arrow writes wei ying so exquisitely well. i was weepy the whole time read this fic. for the best experience, i recommend following along with the accompanying spotify playlist.

No one listens to the radio in this day and age, but somehow from a bunch of left clicking and right clicking, through Facebook and Twitter and Youtube, Wei Ying finds himself on the WQHS homepage—the UPenn student radio station, promising eclectic tastes from a variety of hosts. Wei Ying can't remember giving a shit about his old college's student radio before he dropped out, but it's eleven at night and he has nothing else better to do. He clicks on the button that says Listen Here! and waits to be impressed.

get wild by aroceu | rated E | 24K words | 🔥🏀🔥 BASKETBALL FIC 🔥🏀🔥

He was looking for a specific reaction—to get Lan Zhan to lash out. All hard edges and demanding, the same way during the first scrim, Lan Zhan's dark voice had made him loose and obedient, itching to both rebel and obey at the same time.

It's them, whatever it is, but it doesn't belong on the basketball court.

~

Wei Ying didn't expect to enter a weird... something-with-benefits-plus-power-play with the captain of the Gusu basketball team. He's not sure if it's worth it.

without a warning by aroceu | rated T | 10K words | 🥺️🥺️🥺️

“Blegh,” Wei Ying says. “I hate being sick, Lan Zhan… my throat is so sore… why do I talk so much?”

“Stop talking then,” Lan Zhan says.

“You don’t mean that,” Wei Ying says, in his half-asleep daze. “I know you’ll never admit it, Lan Zhan, but you like it when I talk.”

your honor i’m a freak bitch by aroceu | rated E | 6K words

Wei Ying gestures to his outfit. His hands are buried deep within the hoodie; he’s mostly gesturing with the sleeves. “Well, it works with the whole get up, you see?”

“The…” Lan Zhan looks down at where his fingers are toying with the top of Wei Ying’s thigh highs. Wei Ying pretends he is not shivering. “…skirt. And these stockings.”

“Thigh highs, Lan Zhan!” Wei Ying says, batting at him with the end of a sleeve.

Play It By Ear by aroceu | rated T | 7K words | MY HEART !!!

In the virtual airplane flying over the island, appropriately called Yiling, Lan Zhan watches as bits and pieces of the island load in. There are many Statues of David, a gothic teacup ride, and, from what Lan Zhan can see, an entire field of spoiled turnips.

hanguang-jun @/hanguangjun Do you need turnips to sell?

timmy and tommy in a trenchcoat @/yilinglaozu oh! no haha! 😅 those are from a while ago but my brother insists i keep them there

for the ~aesthetic~

the key that our souls were singing by aroceu | rated M | 5K words

“I haven’t seen you since—Gusu, was it?” Wei Ying says. “Oh my god, it’s been so long. I didn’t even know you were LGBT! Unless you’re here as an ally, which is also totally cool—”

“No, I.” Lan Zhan coughs. Her throat feels dry. “I am a lesbian.”

abort retry fail by aroceu | rated E | 21K words

Lan Wangji must miss his husband over this amnesiac of a man Wei Wuxian has turned into. Well, Wei Wuxian will show him! He'll be even better—or at least, try to be just as good of a husband as he would be, without his memory loss.

Blackout If You Were Mine by aroceu | rated E | 9K words

Wei Ying likes to wear chokers a lot. So Lan Zhan buys some for him. Then, testing their limits, collars.

Wei Ying wears those, too.

-

Or, the one where Wei Ying and Lan Zhan accidentally stumble into a BDSM relationship.

eleven thousand meters & airborne by aroceu | rated E | 5K words | 😎✈️😎

Lan Zhan and Wei Ying join the mile high club.

many fox given by defractum | rated E | 24K words | can't go wrong with foxxian and dragonji content 🦊🐉

Lan Zhan is glaring at him. That's probably fair.

The last time they'd seen each other, Wei Ying had been digging through Lan Zhan's garbage. They'd made eye contact over the shredded bags, the week's trash scattered around him like stinky, oversized Lego.

Lan Zhan's eyes had been wide with horror, and Wei Ying's had been equally wide with feigned innocence. He'd reached out slowly, maintaining the eye contact, and then flipped over the food waste bin full of onion peel and carrot skin as a distraction and slunk off into the night. Probably not his finest moment.

-

Modern AU dragon!LWJ meets fox!WWX.

the tamed by defractum | rated E | 12K words

If the Second Jade of Lan insists on bringing the Yiling Patriarch as his guest to the next Cultivation Conference, he must first demonstrate a control over the Yiling Patriarch and his unnatural abilities.

The letter lies on their desk for days.

-

Post-canon, Wei Ying is invited, sort of, to a Discussion Conference.

us in a king-size, keep it a secret (say i'm your queen, i don't wanna leave this) by matcha_ado | rated E | 3K words

People always said Wei Ying was a royal pain in the ass. They were absolutely right, of course, just not in the way they thought.

it is wednesday my dudes by jelenedra | rated M | 4K words

Wednesday nights at Cloud Recesses strip club are always a little weird, but usually they're not this horny. Whatever Wei Ying and Lan Zhan get up to, Mianmian is not going to be the one to clean it up.

i'm the one for your fire by occultings | rated E | 43K words | cherry magic au! love it

Wei Ying, virgin and noted heterosexual, gets hit with a curse of an unusual nature on his 30th birthday — through physical contact, he can read the minds of others around him.

Enter Lan Zhan, hot former rival and current coworker, whose true thoughts about Wei Ying are nothing like he expects. (A loose Cherry Magic AU)

a thousand teeth, yours among them by darkredloveknot | rated E | 11K words

A one night stand in the time of zombies.

hoe to housewife pipeline by lanzhancore | rated E | 5K words

“You type fast,” Wei Ying murmurs, making a futile attempt at conversation while he waits for him to be done with… whatever. “Not to be pushy, but do you plan on fucking my ass anytime soon?”

or: wei ying has been thirsting after lan zhan for three slutty slutty years

can you feel it by lanzhancore | rated E | an instant classic

“What’s wrong?” Wei Ying asks finally, eyebrows drawn together. “Is everything okay?”

Thumbs stroking circles into his skin as if to comfort him, Lan Zhan says, “Don’t panic.”

“Lan Zhan,” Wei Ying says, sitting up on his elbows. “What did you do to my ass?”

“Nothing,” Lan Zhan says, convincing nobody. “But we need to go to the hospital.”

or: wei ying really should have sprung for the model with the flared base. he learns this lesson the hard way.

because you're mine (i walk the line) by lanzhancore | rated E | 8K words

Wei Ying is freshly cream-pied and still trying to remember where his legs are when Lan Zhan outlaws masturbation.

or: wei ying fucks around and finds out

payload by lanzhancore | rated M | 3K words | babysitter wwx + dilfji, what more could you need

Wei Ying has a whole five hours and thirty-six minutes to calm down but when he hears Lan Zhan’s key turning in the front door lock later that evening he has to cling to the couch cushions to keep from marching into the laundry room to retrieve the briefs so he can wave them in Lan Zhan’s face and demand to know who owns them.

or: lan zhan's self-restraint is not limitless

the to the brim series by verseau | rated E | 14K words total

Wei Ying wants to rob him, but it wouldn’t even be satisfying, since this guy is just—giving away money. With his nice fingers. Maybe Wei Ying will just bite his fingers, and that will give the same endorphin rush as robbing him. / a day told across five parts.

get that message home by verseau | rated G | 2K words | ohhhhhhhhh myyyyy godddddd 😭

Sizhui's father cannot haggle. It is a shame on Sizhui’s honor to have such an honest father.

Author's note [i'm including it here because it's golden]:

there is a scene in arrested development where lucille, who is on the opposite spectrum of humanity as lan zhan, asks, "it's a banana, michael. how much could one cost? ten dollars?" there are no bananas in this story.

dreaming and getting a glimmer by verseau | rated E | 27K words | a particular favorite of mine 🔥🍆💦🕳🔥

Wei Ying discovers himself.

trust your fingertips by plonk | not rated (but really rated E) | 15K word | 🥵️🥵️🥵️🥵️🥵️ plonk you’ve done it again!

Lan Wangji must suppress a shiver at every brush and press of Wei Wuxian’s fingers.

Under different circumstances - less public ones - he would welcome touch, given that his body is in such an aroused state.

Alas, his circumstances are these: sitting quietly while Wei Wuxian, the famous (infamous) Doctor of Yunmeng, digs his fingertips into Lan Wangji’s shoulders and chest and sides and hums thoughtfully.

Doctor, Doctor by YunmengLotus | rated E | 4K words | mmmmhmm!

Wei Ying needs to get a prostate exam. How ever will he deal when the world's hottest doctor walks through the exam room door and tells him to bend over?

TAKOYAKI by ariskamalt | rated E | 3K words | lan zhan gets jealous of his own damn appendages. meanwhile, wei ying is just having a good time.

Lan Zhan…cannot always feel or tell what his tentacles will do.

His free hand curls into a fist. Underneath his skin, the tentacles give a little squirm, as if aware of the challenge he has just issued them. No touching Wei Ying unless he says so, because he wants to touch Wei Ying first. They squirm again, as if to say, Tentacles: 1, Lan Zhan: 0.

That will just have to be remedied.

Or, as phnelt first described: Tentacle-ji with the semi autonomous tentacles getting jealous of his tenties for touching Wei Ying in places he hasn't yet

Outage by SugarMilkTea | rated E | 3K words | [cough] 😳😳😳

The power goes out in Lan Zhan and Wei Ying's rural home in the countryside. Lan Zhan takes advantage of the darkness to give in to one of his baser urges, and Wei Ying's first rural power outage experience is about to get a lot more interesting.

big hands (i know you’re the one) by martyrsdaughter | rated E | 8K words | NICE. 🔥🔥🔥

“Not a big talker, hm?” Wei Ying tilts his head to one side. “That’s okay, I’ve been told I’m a good enough conversationalist for three. My tongue is multi-talented and—”

He has just enough time to feel her palm on the back of his neck and think, oh, her hands are so big, before his words are being stolen into her mouth.

darling, am i a chore? by martyrsdaughter | rated E | 7K words

“Are you done playing around?”

Knowing that’s not what either of them actually wants, Wei Wuxian reaches up to tickle under Lan Wangji’s chin. Soft little scritches, coaxing motions—Lan Wangji is weak to all of them.

“You know what I want,” Wei Wuxian purrs, reaching up on his tiptoes to throw his arms over Lan Wangji’s shoulders. “Call me gege, won’t you? Call me and I’ll stop.”

(or: five times Lan Wangji paid special attention to Wei Wuxian’s interest in being his gege.)

put him on his knees, give him something to believe in by dustyloves | rated E | 2K words | if the title is quoting WAP, then you should know by now it’s gonna be some of that good filth

The next time Wei Ying kisses him, Lan Zhan is careful again. Wei Ying seems determined to make it very difficult.

the hard way by dustyloves | rated E | 9K words

"Anyway, you make it sound like something lewd is going on," Wei Ying complains. "It's all totally above board. She's just being a nice person. It's just one kind alpha grad student offering one room of her huge house to one beta undergrad in need, what could be more appropriate than that?"

// Wei Ying makes a mistake and finds out the hard way.

Exhibition by sevenless | rated E | 5K words

“Oh?” Wei Wuxian raises an eyebrow. “The forbidden section, Lan Zhan?”

“Mn.”

“You’re not afraid of being heard?” Wei Wuxian thinks aloud. A smirk creeps onto his face, eyes glinting. “Or could it be that Lan-er-gongzi actually wants to be heard? Seen? Caught?” He skips in front of him, blocking his way. "Disciplined?”

Lan Wangji’s ears, as always, betray him.

a history of the body by northofallmusic | rated E | 14K words

Wei Ying's body hurts sometimes; she lets Lan Zhan help her.

A fic about the complicated nature of having a body, and also the versatility of sex toys.

(our friendship) up against the ropes by daltoneering | rated E | 36K words

The reboot completes, and Wei Ying’s brain smashes this information together into two mind-shattering thoughts. Number one, he knew very well already, and is now further seared by defined muscles and a mouth-watering tattoo into his every waking moment: Lan Zhan is the hottest fucking person on the planet.

Number two: that guy wasn’t visiting Lan Zhan’s neighbour, he was visiting Lan Zhan, which means:

Lan Zhan fucks. Lan Zhan fucks. Lan Zhan fucks.

;

Lan Zhan has been Wei Ying's best friend for years. Literally, years. How did he not already know? How has he missed this most important of facts? And more importantly, how is he ever going to get over it?

watching my heart go round by typefortydeductions | rated E | 38K+ words | WIP (2/4 chapters, last updated 5/2/21) | lan zhan i love you baby 💞

Lan Zhan falls apart. As it turns out, that's not the end.

~

oh man this list is so long sd;jfkdsjfhhh

yati, i hope you find some stuff in this pile here that you’ll enjoy! it's not an exhaustive list, so check out the authors’ other works and bookmarks for more goods, if you feel so inclined 😙💕

#darlingbenny #mdzs #fic rec #nsfw!

[xiyao-feels]

wow the amount of bad takes about jgy in his tag are so ??? and the number of people who write jgy's love for lxc as being unrequited in his own tag is also ?? and gleeful and borderline sadistic? like why do my boy dirty like that 🥺🥺🥺

It's the worst!!!!

There are so many. Soooooo so many. And yes, the unrequited thing too!!!! Like, sad unrequited is...well, let's say I very much disagree with unrequited as a reading of canon, but you do you, but there really is a lot that's just spiteful to JGY!!!! Or god I don't know if you've ever gone browsing the xiyao the on the ao3 but if you /don't/ add otp: true to the search results you get some truly ridiculous stuff all over the place—so much past abusive JGY xiyao, for example. Which is a) nonsense and b) tagged with xiyao in relationships instead of additional tags why exactly?

I think....part of it is that people can sense CQL is incomplete, and they want to fill in those gaps. Which is fine and great!!! But they want to fill them in with like—oh, very much Evil JGY and Righteous NMJ, and so forth, and I think that's a bad extrapolation from CQL canon (people really have a hard time remembering that NMJ is against the Wen, yes even in CQL) and often it's just really not supported by MDZS. Which—I mean, complications of 'sometimes you have to read MDZS in to CQL to make it make any sense' and 'almost everyone does some reading in' aside, you certainly don't have to, but I think people...like, fill in JGY mistreating LXC and then treat is as the One True Canon.

Which I mean. I don't mean to imply you don't get some truly awful takes from novel people, too. *bitter laughter* The takes I have seen.... I don't want to get too specific and vague people but yeah I've seen some truly awful purely novel-based takes, too.

Oh and then there's fucking Fatal Journey. If you have been around you probably know my opinion on Fatal Journey. I really do not like it and I think the degree to which it wildly misrepresents the characters and their situations is...not appreciated. I'll tell you this, when I watched it I spent a lot of time exclaiming so that's where that totally unsupported idea comes from! E.g. the idea that the music was supposed to entirely cure NMJ.... Every time I see a post that's just like "and JGY decides not to kill NMJ, so he survives!!!" it's very....sigh. I mean, even aside from the thing where JGS and JGY's circumstances are being completely ignored.

I think there's also something where like....people really REALLY want the ending to be about, you know, people getting their just deserts. WWX got a happy ending because he is morally correct in such-and-such a fashion! JGY got his bad one because he's evil!!!! Etc.

And beyond that people...want it to just be a happier ending than it actually is. I think part of it is CQL's ending...and part of the problem I have there is that if one man interested in good at the top can fix things, which seems to be like the emotional implication, then it's a pretty straightforward inference that JGY wasn't interested in good...but some of it is just people. But JGY's downfall is bad, actually!! Even just—well, consider this bit from the Iron Hook extra, from ch 123:

The guard didn’t report to the real sect leader at all, but instead to another senior of the LanlingJin Sect’s. When the senior heard, he was infuriated by the fact that such an ordinary merchant would dare step on the golden stairs of the LanlingJin Sect’s, ordering him to chase the visitor out. Yet, it was interrupted by Jin Ling, who was just about to head to the hunting grounds.

Jin Ling knew that these seniors of the sect were all quite full of pride, believing that they were a sect hundreds of years old. No matter what, they definitely couldn’t lower their prestige, refusing to welcome anyone who wasn’t of eminent personage. First of all, he’d always abhorred such a way of doing things; second of all, he was mad that the guard reported to somebody else directly, ignoring him completely; and third of all, he remembered that when Jin GuangYao was still here, no disciples of even guest cultivators dared to take bribery so easily.

This is very much the opposite of what people want to be true about JGY!!! I'm just over here like...look, I'm certainly not going to tell you you have to stick with canon, but if it offends you so profoundly I.... really don't know what to tell you....

(wanting it to be happier than it actually is is part of why people also have really weird takes about LXC post-canon, I think.)

Honestly it's really exhausting!!! People absolutely post in the JGY tag to just. Talk about how much they hate him. Talk about other characters hating him. "Jokes" that are just oooh, NMJ is going to do so much violence to him. Suggesting that he's inherently evil. Suggesting that he's inherently evil because he chooses JGS over his many many options including the people who love him, NMJ and LXC.... Which, you know, even aside from the many many problems with that analysis, even if it were true wanting your dad to love you is like. Not actually pure evil. And also it's a shitty analysis of his situation! So hey.

I've mentioned before the way people seem to want the cultivation world to be not only way better and more progressive and safe and so forth than it actually is, but way better and more progressive and safe and etc than the modern States! It's really something.

Also a whole bunch of vibes that are like, ngl, how /dare/ JGY want to improve his position in the world, how dare he want to be anything other than a servant, doesn't he know his place.... funnnnnn times.

Oh and of course people taking the Empathy framing uncritically—in CQL the straight-up different version of events, in MDZS the way it's interpreted through NMJ's anger which WWX can also feel... Like, look at this section from chapter 50:

Jin GuangYao was, at the moment, complaining to Lan XiChen, yet just last night he had been all soft and innocent as he talked with Nie MingJue, playing the guqin. Hearing how Jin GuangYao spoke ill of him behind his back, Nie MingJue burned with anger and kicked the door open. The raging flames within his head traveled throughout the entirety of his body. A thunder-like roar exploded in the air, “How dare you!”

People will read this and conclude JGY was in the wrong and NMJ was totally reasonable in his anger here. I?????? Like. He is literally about to try and kill JGY on the spot, to be clear. Also the last time JGY talked back to him he also tried to kill him. I just. What. Framing is framing but please think about this for like five seconds.

Anyway yeah it's exhausting and it sucks :( I think a lot of us pro-JGY people don't even post in the tags....man.

My position is that JGY is amazing, actually, and that it's best not only for him but for the people around him that he becomes Jin-zongzhu and Jin-xiandu 🥰 Seriously he's fantastic, no one else does what he does or would even think to try.

#also sorry for taking so long to get back to you!!! #i've been on and off sick and also very busy at work so I haven't been writing as much #but I think I am managing to ginger tea the sick into submission 💪 #more than one tag could contain #I love him....

[veliseraptor]

vent post? vent post. (please don’t reblog, I don’t want or need that)

continue to be frustrated by this thing that’s like “fans of cql/cql first people have a shallower/worse understanding of the text than novel fans” but at the same time “people are shitty and stupid about the novel and read it in these really bad faith ways” 

but at the same time “it should be okay for people to have an adaptation preference without it being framed as a hierarchy of which is ‘better’ to be a fan of, because this situation is not, like, ‘smart, understands themes’ vs. ‘homophobic’ actually” but at the same time “i get the frustration and animosity from novel fans to a certain extent, i’ve been there” but also “a lot of the...tone of novel fan discourse sets me off in a big way for personal reasons and results in me just wanting to crawl into a hole and never reemerge and-”

anyway you see the problem here. 

the upshot really being that this is all occupying way too much space in my brain and I’d rather this just stopped being, like, a weird competition over who has the more Correct Adaptation Feelings

#lise whines #lise's aggressively bitchy opinions about irrelevant and unimportant matters #it's more 'lise's miserable opinions' but #'lise's miserable feelings'

[ohnobjyx]

To the snowy summit side by side

红尘中毁誉得失如何去量?

Part 7: And now... what?

This is a post long overdue. I must admit, this is the most difficult one, so I was putting it off, reading again and again what I had already written and browsing through the internet to try and get the most complete picture.

Disclaimer: in this case, almost all of the post is my personal opinion (I tried to keep the previous post objective). I’m biased because of the XZ friendly content I’m usually exposed to and by my own views of their situation. Open to discussion, but please make sure you’ve enough information to do so.

Let’s go back to anon’s original ask:

Hello could you give us an update on xz's situation? I know we*bo and his studio has taken some steps recently but how has this affected public opinion on xz? Has it improved/ are more people favoring him or has it gotten worse?

I think I have been answering your first question in the past posts. However, about the next two:

When I was compiling information and writing the previous posts, a song kept coming back again and again to my head, specifically, this part of the lyrics:

红尘中毁誉得失如何去量?

In the mortal world, how can praise or condemnation, success and failure be measured?

(Yes, it’s from WuJi-无羁)

Innocence

What happened to XZ was a combination of incredibly bad luck, strenuous social circumstances (the pandemic), high stress in the public and a set of underlying issues that had been festering for a long time.

From being a celebrity on the way up, he suddenly became a scapegoat for a conflict he hadn’t caused and the receiver of a lot of senseless hate. He didn’t do anything from start to finish in the 2/27, but ended up the most affected from it, as the consequences reverberated all the way from March to July.

Because XZ didn’t ask the author to write such a fanfic. He didn’t request for it to be taken down. He didn’t ask his fans to report anything. And he didn’t have anything to do with ao3 being banned in the country as a response. From start to finish, he didn’t participate in any of it.

Many of the analysis I’ve watched/read determine that the cause of the problem  were his fans. One of the bloggers even said that “his fans are the ones that have hindered his career the most”.

But, from my point of view, the saying of “two people can’t have an argument if one of them doesn’t want to” also applies here. From start to finish, the issue was filled with overreactions and exaggerated responses from both XZ’s fans and the rest of the people that engaged in this ridiculous fan war with them.

However, let’s keep in mind that “XZ’s fans” is also a huge generalization. Most of the people don’t have the necessary time, resources and mental energy to engage in ridiculous crusades in the name of their favoured celebrity.

Part of the reasoning of the anti-XZ faction is that he should have taken measures and steps to make sure that his fans didn’t cross the line. However, even if the people leading all of this are only a small % of his fans, they are still a lot of people. Being the receiver of their fans’ love and admiration doesn’t make him and his team able to discern who is a reasonable, sensible fan, and who is a crazed troublemaker. And being famous and admired shouldn’t make him the responsible of all of his fans actions (in my opinion). I think this is also how Western society would view the situation.

I was surprised to discover that c-society did expect him to “guide” his fans, because he has a huge influence on them and he’s supposed to guide them towards more civilized behaviour. It’s not of course what everyone thinks, but the stance his studio has taken also points in recognizing that they should have done that (there are more reasons to their stance, of course, explained in the part 5+6).

However, people did realize (I think) that most of the people that follows him gives him support silently. There are of course ardent and fervent people who jump to defend him, but even that kind of behaviour is discouraged by XZ’s studio (applying that ignoring the antis is the greatest way to defeat them).

So here it came the lyrics from WuJi. It’s true that a fraction of his fans have caused him a lot of trouble. But this kind of fans (there is a fine line between very invested and obsessed) are also the ones who push forward a lot of events, who create things like “XZ’s fans Association” and who promote his works the most. His studio did call them out in the end, and said that everyone should relax in their support, but it’s also true that this fans also had a great hand in pushing him to the top of the charts. There’s a very fine line between gain and loss here, so how can one measure the value?

(But the antis who disguise as his fans and create trouble just for the sake of ruining his reputation are a whole other issue. No excuses for them).

Finally, the answers

To answer (I know we*bo and his studio has taken some steps recently but how has this affected public opinion on xz? Has it improved/ are more people favoring him or has it gotten worse?) more exactly:

When we are talking about public opinion, it can actually be divided into 3 factions: his fans, the antis, and the actual general public who is neutral by default.

1. His fans stayed the same, supporting him through the storm. The opinion of the fans isn’t so easily swayed (though he has lost some in this process, he has also gained new followers), and the main feeling they have towards him now can be summarized in 心疼 (”xin teng”, a feeling that, in this case, can be described as “I’m really sorry that all of this has happened to you because I know that you were innocent in this”). I’ll explain a little bit more about his fans support in the last part of the post.

2. The antis can also be divided into 2 groups: “regular” antis and “professional” antis. The 2/27 Great Union community still exists, but it’s a closed off community and to enter it, the new member has to be approved by a moderator. I’ve seen public comments with the 2/27 Great Union tag, that after his interviews have morphed into “I’m a commoner and I hate XZ”, but they are a lot less active these days. Even if they still have hate after everything that happened, the average anti has gone back to their usual life after quarantine was lifted, so it’s less active.

Some of the “regular” antis will stay active, but that’s to be expected. For example, some of WYB’s solo fans were all exploding over the new vlog XZ’s Studio updated three days ago. While it’s ridiculous for the rest of us, these people will continue their “XZ is using WYB to further his own fame” campaign.

However, it’s different with the “professional” anti. As we said in previous posts, people like “B” has a lot of time, energy and resources to invest in a smear campaign against XZ. Where does all of that come from? I don’t know. What I do know is that once XZ’s topic cools down enough and another scandal of another idol, no matter how small, appears, they’ll shift to hate content about the other idol. What matters to them is to produce content that people will engage with, so they get more views and followers, and profit with it.

3. And now, the “neutral-by-default general public”. There is a problem in how we, as netizens, manage the information. In the previous post, I talked about a hater who had written an assessment because “XZ’s fans” had insulted her parents. While the main objective of the document wasn’t to see how the general public views him, I took the data she had extracted.

The general public isn’t so neutral anymore. While it’s true that XZ keeps gaining fans (he’s still riding on CQL’s success train), what general public, the average passerby, has heard from him is:

A XZ fan has stolen a deceased person’s account to keep promoting him

“XZ’s fans” attack a user’s parents on Father’s Day.

A primary school teacher promotes her favourite idol in her class.

These are bound to create a bad image and reputation in people’s mind. We know (I explained all of those incidents in previous posts) that only the teacher incident was truly caused by a XZ fan. There’s no proof that the person who insulted that user’s parents was a XZ fan, and w/ibo has proved that the “stolen” account incident was a scheme from start to finish.

However, the headache in all of those incidents is that the initial issue (“a XZ fan stole a deceased person account to continue to promote him!”) is announced widely and loudly, attracting people’s attention to it. However, people won’t dig up more information. Less than half will actually read the article or investigate more about it. W/ibo actually investigating it and discovering that it was all a plot to frame XZ isn’t given importance, nor does it go on the hot search chart. People only know what happened at first, but don’t know how the story ended. And this is a huge problem for him, because people accuse him but don’t care to know if he was actually the culprit.

(Wow, just like WWX in CQL).

So I found this to describe it.

There are still neutral people: those who couldn’t care less about the tabloids, and that never read gossip sites. These are still a great part of the general public. Anon was asking about the public opinion: the fact is that previously neutral people have only heared bad things about him for half a year, so that’s bound to affect their image of someone they’re not invested in.

If XZ were defeated, and retired, I’m sure a lot of articles like “framing the innocent” would appear. We people just like to have something to talk about.

His fans’ support

XZ ended 2019 with his followers on w/ibo numbering on 21,690,000. The exact number of his w/ibo followers right now is 26,458,877 (26,459,350 two hours later, by the time I’m editing this to post it). He continues to be liked by more people, and antis may try to reduce his popularity, but it’s a fact that his talent and effort are appreciated by people with no hidden agenda. 

XZ is also slowly coming back to work and to his endorsements, which are very good news. We saw him recently in the R/SEONLY add for Chinese Qixi, in the event for Cao Yu’s anniversary, the vlog the studio updated.

Less directly, Kai Xiao Zao, one of the brands that didn’t stop working with him even after 2/27 (they are a smaller brand, and they must have invested a lot in their endorser, so they can’t just put him aside like other bigger brands did), recently put up little stands in malls all over China to promote their new product. In every stand there was a wall for customers to write and a couple of XZ cardboard cutouts.

In his interview in Yunnan, XZ had been seen wearing his red cord bracelet, to ward off bad luck. So fans started to add their own amulets to ward off bad luck and offerings to the cutouts.

They started off like this...

Fans came...

And they ended up like this. The funny fact it’s that people started to add plush toys, hats and even food to the cutouts, so based on what “XZ” is wearing one can guess where was the photo taken.

This was a widespread phenomenon in all of KXZ stands. So to say that XZ has lost support from his fans would be certainly false.

His dramas are also expected to be aired soon and have been confirmed to. His patience is paying off little by little, and he’s coming back to work.

The moral of the story

I hope we can all learn something from this. If anything, it has changed my own attitude on the Internet. I used to be very quick to answer with extreme words if I felt strongly about a topic. Now I try to tone down my responses. I’m not saying that you’d all do the same, but it’s a lesson I extract from other people’s experiences. History should serve to avoid mistakes others have committed as much as possible.

In the technology and communications based world we live in, to believe that what we do on Internet doesn’t affect real people’s everyday lives is a huge lie. So, now that we can see that XZ is slowly coming back, let’s all remember that this once happened: let’s all be kind on the internet and avoid engaging with people who dedicate themselves to spread hate.

It has been hard on him. But he’s going to top the snowy summit. Let’s do our best to support him rationally.

Prev: Part 5 and 6: A snowy summit

#gg's situation #part 7 out of 7 #finally finished #my post #ask