#trans men and transmasc people have a place in history just like every other trans and queer person out there

[nothorses]

"Transandrophobia" Primer

There's a wild amount of misinformation about the term "transandrophobia" going around, and has been for a long time. So let's dig in a bit and set the record straight.

What it is

"Transandrophobia" was coined as an alternative to "transmisandry", and describes the unique oppression targeted at and faced by transmasculine folks (and people perceived to be transmasculine).

Transmascs experience oppression not just on the basis of being trans, or (typically) AFAB, and certainly not on the basis of being men alone. What we experience is unique to being transmasculine, and the way cissexist society categorizes and responds to us: not as women, not as men, but as an "other" that lies between the two.

Some quick examples of transandrophobia:

Trans men are the most likely group in the trans community to have negative experiences with healthcare providers.

AFAB trans people in general are most likely to be denied HRT.

Trans men are most likely to be denied surgery coverage.

Trans men are most likely to avoid healthcare out of fear.

Nonbinary people and trans men were most likely to report having never, or only sometimes, been treated with respect by law enforcement.

Trans men are more likely to experience problems with airport security.

Trans men are most likely to avoid public restrooms.

Over half of all AFAB nonbinary people and trans men experience sexual assault. These are the highest rates in the queer community.

9 out of every 10 trans men seriously consider attempting suicide. This is the highest rate in the queer community.

About half of all trans men attempt suicide. This is the highest rate in the queer community.

What it Looks Like

Transmascs are generally placed in one of two categories: confused "girls" they believe can be saved, and evil, dangerous "other" they believe are beyond saving. There's a ton of overlap in these two categories, both in what they experience, and in the fact that oftentimes the two are experienced simultaneously; even in the same situation.

A quick, incomplete list of how these things can manifest:

Infantilization ("soft", "little")

Removal of autonomy

Stereotyping as "whiny", "hysterical", or "entitled".

"Butch flight" or "ROGD" - the idea that transmascs are stealing butch lesbians.

Pressuring transmascs to be more feminine/womanly, either through overt force, or through subtler manipulation.

The desire to "make transmascs women" via sexual assault (corrective rape).

The idea that testosterone causes aggression; emotional, physical, and sexual- therefore transition is dangerous, and transmascs who transition are dangerous.

Fearmongering around transmasc transitions; "binders can never be safe", "vaginal atrophy is untreatable", "you'll get fat/ugly/acne/sweaty/oily/smelly", "phalloplasty is too dangerous/expensive/unsatisfying to be worth it", etc.

Medical professionals dissuading transmascs from transitioning; stressing risks that can in actuality be mitigated easily, nitpicking family history without presenting options, etc.

The idea that transmascs only become trans to "escape misogyny" or to "gain male privilege".

Erasure of transmasc experiences, esp. experiences with misogyny and transphobia.

Lack of resources for transmasc abuse survivors.

Lack of resources for transmascs in need of reproductive healthcare on the basis of "male" gender markers, names, voices, and appearances.

Why We Call it That

"Transandrophobia" can be broken down in two ways:

"Trans" + "androphobia" = the "trans version" of "androphobia", a fear of men or social bigotry toward men.

"Trans-andro" + "phobia" = a social bigotry directly specifically at trans men/transmascs.

The second is the more common interpretation and usage, largely because the first can be interpreted, by some, to mean that those using the word are suggesting that it's actually (cis) women who oppress (cis) men, that we don't believe patriarchy exists, etc. This, of course, has never been the intention of the word.

The first break-down above could also be interpreted to refer to patriarchy's negative stereotyping of men- as aggressive, dangerous, and sexually predatory.

While that doesn't translate to systemic oppression of cis men, those same feelings- a general disgust and fear toward the concept of manhood- do inform how society responds to transmascs. As a group of people who are oppressed on the basis of being transmasculine, those feelings do play a role in transmasc oppression.

What it Isn't

"Transandrophobia" is not an attack on, or accusation toward, any other group of people.

The word does not imply that trans women oppress trans men, that transmascs have it worse than anyone else, that transfems are horrible bigots, that transfem issues do not deserve the attention they receive (or, ideally, far more attention than they currently receive).

It does not imply that cis misandry exists, that "MRAs were right", that patriarchy and misogyny aren't real, or that feminism isn't necessary.

It does not signal bigotry toward other groups. Whatever your personal opinion of the word, of who uses it, or of who coined it, the word is a word and it stands alone from those things. It belongs to the transmasculine community.

It does not demand anyone pay any less attention to other important issues. It does not accuse other trans people of oppressing us. It does not dismiss the existence of patriarchy or structural oppression of women. It does not belong to any one individual.

Why We Need it

There are real, tangible issues within the transmasc community- things that are unique to transmascs- and those things happen because of a unique bigotry toward transmasculinity.

In order to address those problems, we have to be able to talk about what they are and why they happen.

In order to talk about that, we need a word for what it is. "Transandrophobia" is that word.

Don't get me wrong: the word might change at some point, and that's fine. If the transmasc community as a whole decides that we would like a new word, and creates one together that suits those new needs, that's fine. But as of now, this is the most common, recognizable, easy-to-understand word we have.

"Transandrophobia" belongs to the transmasc community, and it's up to transmascs to define, interpret, create or remove associations, revise, and replace, as it sees fit.

What You Can Do

If you're transmasc:

Talk about your experiences. Connect with other transmascs. Join transmasc community spaces, create new ones, and maintain a positive, productive, and inclusive culture within those spaces. Uplift transmascs with different experiences from you.

Be an ally to other trans people, to people of color, to disabled people, and to other marginalized groups. Do not allow resentment toward the trans community- any part of it, and especially toward transfems- to fester in any space you inhabit.

If you're not:

Listen to transmascs. Seek transmascs out to listen to. Uplift transmasc voices. Learn. Ask questions, even if they're scary, and be ready to be surprised by the answers.

Think for yourself. Own your opinions, and own where they're coming from; don't blame them on other trans people. Acknowledge your limitations in experience. Know that you don't need to understand in order to respect us. Try to understand anyway.

#transandrophobia #transmasc #trans #transgender #trans pride #ftm #trans men #transmasculine #trans masc #trans community #long post #saint-speaks

[bilesproblems]

genuine question. not taking into account people with differing attraction orientations yk. how does the mpsec lesbianing work. bc as far as i know lesbian is just homosexual nonman? pls don't just be like "erm well that's not what lesbian means dumbfuck little radexclus bitch" i need an actual explanation that isn't just "because you're wrong lmao"

i hope this doesn't come off as rude im trying to learn i like knowing both sides of arguments and every time i try to get someone to explain i get attacked (not anon because i will forget that i put this in pls pretend im anon)

In the nicest way possible, do you think nonman is a single gender and not inherently inclusive of an mspec experience?

Mspec lesbians come in many forms, and as you've already accounted for SAM users, I don't need to go over that. But for others, the meaning varies. For me, I am not attracted to men, not sexually (well, not anybody sexually lol), not romantically. Platonic and aesthetic, totally. But as a romantic orientation (and sexual para-orientation) I am a lesbian, exclusively. I only feel attraction to women and various nonbinary genders, and I'm unsure of how I'd feel dating a bigender man but I think it would be alright as long as they were also a woman. But see here, the thing is, "various nonbinary genders" includes people who are separate from being women. This means that, while being fully and exclusively lesbian, it is inherently mspec and to imply otherwise is horribly enbyphobic and misgenders us all

For others that I know, it is an uncertainty. One feels attraction to women, men, and potentially elsegender people, but the attraction to men/attraction to people who are not women (depends on the person) is a lot more infrequent and/or weak, to the point where it's hard to even be sure if it's real attraction. In this sense, a bi lesbian would be somebody who feels like they're on the line between the two, or in a blurry area right between, and they aren't sure which they belong to.

For many... It's reclamation! Lesbian was fully nonexclusive for a long time. The movement that changed that was led by TERFs. It was not the natural progression of language, but a disgusting movement that aimed to remove bi women, trans women, butches, nonbinary people, and transmascs from being lesbians despite them all being historical parts of the community. I get why exclusive lesbians would want their own space and label, but we should have made a new one instead of taking over an existing one and kicking people out. A very small amount of bi people today are retaking their place as lesbians, because they never should have been kicked out in the first place

Also, many people don't like the nonman definition because "nonman" excludes bigender enby people and women from being lesbians just because they're also men. And it has racist origins as a term... It's not inherently wrong to use but many people do dislike it being imposed onto the definition of lesbian as such a large label because of that. I don't hate it, but I think it's kinda a bad definition... I need to rewrite my definition but lesbian is a word that deserves a definition that would make your English teachers proud, because it's such a loaded and beautiful word with so much history and variety in experience.

[transmascpetewentz]

that cuntie who made the ‘TQ+ without LGB are nothing but weird hetero freaks’ rant is so fascinating to me. i wonder where they live, what’s the Queer history of their location, what irl communities they belong to. something tells me they don’t have a place they feel they fully belong, or mb they only hang out irl w the tiniest pettiest circlejerking radblr group of gender conforming wannabe-goldstar lesbians. maybe all of em are fairly young as well, it would explain the feebleness of that take.

anyway, there’s no LGB w/o TQ+.

‘LGB separatism’ is nothing more than a respectability circlejerk that will cannibalize itself if it runs out of othered Queers to shit on. generally, w/o TQ+, there are only L and G communities, with bisexuals showed into ‘homosexual-enough’ and ‘basically-hetero’ categories. it’s laughable to even imply that trans people somehow prevent gay and lesbian communities from forming and growing. we are the community, and LGB has never existed. it never existed independent of Trans and Queer liberation. nor it did as a cis-only, same-sex attracted community of mixed sexes. there wasn’t even much solidarity between exclusionary L n G groups. but there always were Trans, Queer, and gnc people in both of those groups, closeted or out, quiet or loud. very often Transmascs, Trans men and gnc people were in the lesbian communities, since the very beginning, and they were there by default; they didn’t force themselves there, they were THE community by virtue of not being gender-conforming cishet women. same was with Trans women, Transfems, and people of other gender expressions. there was no L/G community that didn’t have any sort of gender nonconformity, fluidity, transness, queerness. there was a pushback every time transness got villainized, sensationalised, and - ultimately - scapegoated. there were attempts of separation and exclusion, but every time they would end up hurting their own with all the scrutiny and xenophobia. and there certainly was no LGB that fought FOR Queers, it was always a petty bunch playing respectability politics in front of cishets and fighting THE Queers, the Dykes, the Fags, the Trannies. for the same cishets.

just the concept of LGB is absurd. L/G/B communities, by themselves, are extremely fragile. even more so without T, without gnc, without Intersex, without Q, and even without the ‘+’.

it must be easy to laugh at Trans people loosing human rights when we’re being singled out like that, but that illusion of invincibility will shatter sooner or later. i wonder when (and if) they’ll realize that while they were busy with mockery and abuse, trans people have been out here fighting for their very own rights.

.

#asks #long post

[lesbiantransdude]

I am a fucking Man. I am manly as shit. Despite that, I will probably fucking never find community amongst men. Why? Well, every typical male community I've ever known has held zero space for men who look and sound like me. Online transmasc spaces are only marginally better, having a tendency of not having a strong sense of community and being heavily focused on discussions around passing and physical transition. I find myself either not fitting or only barely fitting in those spaces either. I will never pass as a man and I don't actually desire to take the steps required to. I am 5'2", Fat, curved like a voluptuous hourglass, and I've got massive tits and a very soft and pretty face as well as a fairly high register voice at times. Literally everyone who looks at me sees "woman" at first, second, and 50th glance. The only people who use my pronouns IRL are my spouse and a handful of loved ones who STILL get it wrong sometimes.

I am both completely a man and will never be really seen as one. It took me decades to get here, but I love my body. I'm hot as fuck and I don't want to change my appearance (except for a breast reduction but that's not a possibility right now) or my voice. The only reason I have considered hormones in the past is to get other people to see me the way I see me. But I refuse to sacrifice my love for myself for the acceptance of others.

All this being true leaves me in the position of always being connected to women and misogyny and the expectations put on women. I am a man. But to society I am a woman. That shit carries weight. It affects me. And I know it's affecting some of my other trans brothers out there, not really knowing where their place is in all the messy gender politics. There's been a lot of times where I wanted to say something about women's issues or on lesbian communities but held my tongue based on "well I'm a man so I should just take a back seat." Fuck that. I'm a man. I'm a never passing trans man that is directly and deeply affected by these things and I have a right to speak on it and how it affects me as a trans man.

Recently I learned how lesbian communities have historically been safe spaces for trans men and it hit me how much more I fit with other queer and gender queer lesbians than I do anywhere else. How much more likely I am too find people who relate to my identity and experience in these spaces than I am elsewhere. I haven't quite taken the step of actually stepping into a lesbian community yet but I so want to. I want to find community with people who get it.

I'm a man. And the lesbian community is my people, my community. When everyone looks at me and thinks "woman." When everyone looks at me and spouse together and thinks "lesbians." When the lesbian community has a strong history of being far more open and accommodating than just wlw. When I will always carry the same burdens society has for "women", then the lesbian community belongs to me too.

I'm a lesbian man. If you don't like it, maybe look into why

#lgbtq #queer #lesbian #transgender #trans man #transmasc #trans #genderqueer #gender nonconforming

[syekick-powers]

i am so fucking sick and tired of hearing people say “trans men didn’t contribute anything to queer/LGBT/trans history” shut up shut up shut up. if you are a trans person and your sexuality is anything other than 100% straight, you have a trans man to thank for your ability to access transition. for a good portion of history, being heterosexual was a requirement for transitioning medically. you literally could not access transition if you were trans and anything but straight because if you were trans and attracted to the same gender, it was held as “proof” that you were just a straight cis person. lou sullivan, a gay trans man, is one of the most prominent people responsible for getting heterosexuality as a requirement for medical transition removed. he is one of the first people to champion the idea that gender and sexuality are not necessarily always interlinked and that if you’re trans it always comes with being straight. you have a trans man to thank for your ability to access transition care at all if you are trans and queer. don’t fucking forget that.

#sye's babbles #i will never forget in my life lou sullivans quote #about how the gender clinic told him he couldn't live as a gay man #but since he'd contracted HIV/aids he said 'it looks like im going to die like one' #this textpost feels really aggressive because i am sick of revisionist history #trans men and transmasc people have a place in history just like every other trans and queer person out there #so help me god you WILL realize this

[ursie]

I think they may have been trying to avoid insinuating trans women weren't real women by saying binary women dni, but it obviously wasn't the correct reasoning or choice as to why they would word it that way

also I don't think you're a terf or anything, it's just a way that a few of those posts are worded is 🥴 and I am completely aware of the strong connection between lesbians and transmascs through butch and stud history, but I think it's important to note that trans mascs are not exempt from having some of their own issues to confront in regards to how they handle things... Also important to note that terfs will try to appeal to trans mascs to convince them to "rejoin"

sort of like how you said you wouldn't have issue with the banner if it said cis instead of binary, I would have a lot less of an issue if the posts criticizing in this way specified cis rather than equating the experiences of trans mascs (yes even trans men) as equal to that of cis men- trans mascs can of course be misogynistic but that misogyny tends to come from a very different place than a cis man's misogyny, trans mascs remember and carry with them the misogyny they've faced and experienced even after they come out. Obviously trans men are men and they are the same gender are men, but that experience with gender is very different, to participate in man hating under the assumption that every man being talked about is cis white and able bodied is very odd to me- I would be much more specific in my criticisms in order to avoid insinuating the idea that all men are equally bad

Ok. Ok that totally fair most of my posts aren’t worded great I’m disabled and have a genuine issue wording things and that’s not even touching on how you word things differently for the masses then your blog which is usually worded off the top of your head.

I understand the differences between misogyny coming from cis men and transmasc people again I’m literally transmasc but when a person for ex me is complaining about misogyny from men and doesn’t specify cis or not that’s uh ok misogyny is misogyny and while it’s more complicated coming from transmasc people that doesn’t mean they’re above reproach though I understand more nuance is needed in that discussion. Like not to point this out but there is something disingenuous about needing a prefix for every statement on men from wlw to make sure they’re aware of every single interpretation other people may have on everything they say (because of their own views on the matters and on wlw themselves) like yes be aware but I’ll honest I have no interest in putting not all men before literally every statement I make about men like if you know that statement doesn’t apply to you than you know it. Like..there’s a difference between gender essentialism and a couple posts either making fun of men or talking about your own personal experiences of misogyny (at the hands of men) like..no ones saying terfs aren’t bad or gender essentialism is good but also me or other lesbians being man haters doesn’t exactly equate to that. I know that’s terfs target transmasc/Nb/ect afab people to become terfs. I’m a Transmasc/nb/afab person online in lesbian spaces. I know. I’m not trying to be rude here but half of what you’re telling me is making sure I’m aware of my own experiences like..I know about terfs there’s not much anyone but a Transfemme could probably tell me that I or other lesbians online dont already know. We know gender essentialism is bad-making a man hater joke doesn’t make you a gender essentialist.

I’m not trying to be mean I really do enjoy discussions and debate ect I’m just asking you to be less condescending in future asks I’m not going to make a manspaining joke here but trust me when I say I’m aware of the bigotry in lgbt+ spaces.

#also I’m trying to remember what actual like post posts I’ve made about men in general that didn’t specify cis cause I’m like 90% sure my - #-venting one about homophobic gay men I specified cis and tbh I can’t think of other vaguely serious posts #the rest were mostly man hating jokes iirc #asks #anon #long post #tw discourse

[mollydollyjournals]

I had my first crush on a boy as a small child, but in hindsight I was always crushing on girls too. I knew I was bi somewhere in my early to mid teens. I've still had barely any experience with anyone other than cis(het/bi) men because of my own nerves and the fact that gender norms mean those men come onto me more than anyone else. With monogamy i was just always already in a relationship, with a boy.

I abandoned monogamy years ago but didnt have much confidence to date, so the only things that happened outside of my existing relationship (which is now a marriage) were again cis men who pursued me. There was one occasion on a night out with a woman who seemed to pursue me but in my awkwardness I was only half sure and it never went further than a kiss.

I feel like it's become a comedy story. Everyone who knows me irl knows it - it was my 27th birthday and we went out to a gig/mini-festival that happens every year around that time, I was dressed ridiculously and I stood out, and my friends (and later husband) watched me get flustered over what to do with this girl that I clearly had some kind of tension with.

I dont know what I'm doing with women. But I dont know what I'm doing with men either. I know sexually. But I dont know what I'm doing with people. I've had a string of bad experiences with cis men recently, again, and I'm finding myself thinking I wish I had a girlfriend. Or just someone who isnt a cis man.

The last cis "girl" I had a crush on turned out to be transmasc. A "guy" I thought was cute years ago came out as a trans woman. Neither scenario made me less attracted to them. But beyond like...heavy kissing. If that. I've never been with anyone other than cis men. To my knowledge. I know how to work with that, but I was awkward as shit for so long as a teenager and I wouldnt want to make a trans person uncomfortable and i would definitely do that. I could learn eventually but it would take me some time, and in that time I would probably fuck up irreparably.

And even with cis women, where my tiny bit of non-cis-male experience is. In theory, yes. But only a little. And biphobia is rife. I'll sure as shit never be a gold star lesbian and I never want to be. Neither would I want to be proud of being straight. I know it's not the same at all - I just wouldnt want to be 100% one or the other. It's not me.

Since I found out about biphobia in the lesbian/wlw community I was really put off. I mean if I'm attracted to all genders, and cis men are making themselves known to me, then I still have some options and I dont need to risk anything by exploring further. But I always still liked women and enbies.

Now I'm finding myself in a place where I'm so tired of men, I dont want to go there anymore. All the media I've watched recently I've felt more attraction to the women, and everything I've thought about doing recently ive wondered if I might meet a cute girl I hit it off with. But we've all heard post-breakup straight women say "I hate men I wish I was gay" and rolled our eyes because it's not that simple. I dont want to be that. And I dont want anyone to think I'm that. But surely my recent history is no coincidence? Surely I need to take that into consideration? Surely I need to hang about for a bit and see what happens?

I'm still attracted to cis men. Just not much. Purely physically. There is one exception and that's complex. But any other guy, even where I used to be someone who was totally up for casual sex and such, I dont even want that most of the time. Thinking about sex grosses me out. But then sometimes I see a girl and I feel that attraction again.

I dont know if its come to the forefront because the familiarity of cis men isnt blocking it right now, or because it just is all I have. I wouldnt want to date a girl and make her think it was serious only to break up because I fell in love with a man. But then isnt that just the bi stereotype? Isnt it always that regardless of your gender you pretend to be into a woman only until a man comes along?

I'm having such a major crisis of direction. I call it that because it's not a crisis of identity - I'm not gay, not fully, and I've known that long enough. I'm just also definitely not straight. I'm definitely bi/pan. But I'm also in crisis in general. I'm a very honest person and I'll never go into anything pretending I know shit i really dont. I'm doing bad. I spiral often. Any day I might do a game over. I'm married to a man I barely know anymore, theres another man I'm dating that I just need to actually talk to, theres all sorts. I dont really want to look for anything new. But I know my new attractions recently have been overwhelmingly not male, and especially not cis male. I dont know where I'm going with this.

[genderkoolaid]

is it weird to treat "critical of terminology for transandrophobia (so including other community-created terms)" as a red flag?

it's always the same arguments and nothing makes them happy. always the same insistence that it's transmisogynistic, and/or somehow implying that misandry aimed toward cis men is real.

people who get "critical" about community terms like this are always derailing important conversations. i literally had other transmascs interrupt while i was in the middle of talking about other trans men getting murdered to say "hm i don't like that term", and we had to full stop talk about why the term (or at least the idea it represents) matters and how it doesn't imply that trans women are privileged, or that people who use the terms are aligning with MRAs...

literally so tired of these people thinking they're saying anything new or meaningful to keep us from having language to talk about our own experiences.

No, its not weird at all. The majority of people who I've seen identify themselves as "critical of terminology" have the stance of basically "yeah sure transmascs face some shit, but you guys are being too mean and loud about it!" like the kinds of people who makes posts like "this post made a painfully accurate and important post on the nature of transmasc oppression that i totally agree with, too bad it was made by a transandrophobia truther so it sucks now :/"

And in general, all the discussion of terminology stems directly from a desire to avoid this conversation. It did not come from good faith discussions, it came from finding any reason why any given word was wrong. Even exomisogyny was heavily criticized, and that ones is like. painfully pandering to antitransmasculists.

And its harmful for just the reason you mentioned: this conversation is not abstract hypotheticals, its about the real life harm that transmascs experience, rediscovering and sharing our ignored history, raising awareness of transmasc victims of violence and suicide and intersectional oppression of transmasculinity wrt race, ethnicity, weight, ability, etc. But this stance wants to derail every conversation about all that to pointless arguing over the exact perfect morally-etymologically Pure word to place on these issues. And no matter what word we use, people will hate it and find a new thing wrong with it. Because if we have a word for the social system which oppresses us, we can label that behavior and hold people accountable for it. Its about avoiding any conversation on oppression which centers transmasculinity specifically

#m. #ask box

[nothorses]

Hey, do you know where I can find resources to stop feeling guilt about being trans, male, and straight? I used to ID as a nonbinary lesbian to avoid being accused of straight privilege, but got away from the people who pressured me to ID that way. But now I’ve been seeing more talk from other trans men about transhets being the privileged ones and I realized I’ve never gotten over the internalized guilt and privileged person = bad person mentality.

I know it's been recommended to death to every single person on this website, but genuinely, read Stone Butch Blues.

It's free, it digs into the specific experiences of transmascs who love women and have a relationship to the lesbian community, and it's a really good way of learning our history and gaining some perspective on these things.

The main character isn't specifically a trans man, but they exist in that space and adjacent to it (and that fluctuates throghout), and it's a really good place to start.

That said:

Straight trans folks are not "more privileged", because being trans isn't just, like, disadvantage on privilege rolls, and being straight isn't a +1 to your modifier or something, and that shit does not stack like we are playing D&D.

Transness doesn't change the flavor of a gender; socio-politically speaking, it changes the gender itself. It's a different gender entirely. "Straight" is not the same when applied to someone who is accepted as neither fully male nor fully female, because socio-politically, "straightness" does not exist for people who aren't cis men and cis women.

You are doing something radical by claiming it as a trans person, and it's a shame that other queer people fail to see the ways in which straight trans people queer the concept of straightness itself.

#advice #recs #old asks

[nothorses]

It really fucks me up that I have to tell people not to call trans people slurs or defend their mental stability in fucking gay subreddits. The thing is it’s a real issue I’ve seen in gay communities, especially those with little to no moderation, where transphobia will often run rampant and unchallenged in the less visible internet alleyways. Hell I could probably pull up 50+ posts all from one week from one subreddit that all drip with some flavor of transphobia and I don’t know why this happens.

Tbh this might sound harsh but I kindof think that with certain groups of gay men (not all obviously) they still do that misogynistic banter that some straight men do that eventually downspirals into honest to god hateful misogyny, but instead in gay circles it’s transphobia. Typically these guys are already kinda misogynistic to begin with though, so a lot of times when they complain about “straight women invading their spaces” it’s supposed to be a double punch, one for misgendering, one for being a woman in their eyes. It... really hurts to be honest but you can’t really bring it up with these types cuz they won’t have empathy with you.

Maybe I’m being too prescriptivist but honest to god it’s so hard to like actually hang around in gay spaces as a trans guy who likes guys due to all the hatred bubbling under the surface and I think I have legit self image issues from being exposed to these places.

You’re very right, tbh. And I think a lot of this comes from very different community histories between cis mlm and cis wlw.

The wlw community has had close ties with the feminist movement for a long time, and a lot of their recent history (~1970′s on) is influenced- for better or worse- by feminist theory, feminist movements, radfems, and TERFs. Trans exclusion in the wlw community in particular has been a hot topic for a long time, and partially because of transfem hypervisibility. The push to exclude transfems is more aggressive and direct, and the push against that is more vocal.

But the cis mlm community doesn’t really tie itself to other social movements, and doesn’t have the same sense of insular, dedicated community. There also isn’t as much a sense of “protecting the community” as in the cis lesbian community; even the “straight women invading our spaces” thing comes from a more recent push-back against the “gay best friend” tropes and straight bachelorette parties in gay bars.

A ton of problems have been allowed to fester in the cis mlm community, and while progress has been made... it’s different. And it’s difficult, when the mlm community just isn’t as cohesive of a community as most are, and as it once was.

It doesn’t help that transmascs struggle with invisibility already.

I’ve been called a “fujoshi” and accused of fetishizing “real” gay men more times than I can really keep track of, and the odds of the anons who say those things being TERFs vs. cis gay men are about 70:30, I’d say. And mostly because of the platform.

Of all my encounters on dating apps, where I’m only seen by mlm, I think every cis man that’s been interested in me has been bi or pan. And a decent amount of those have been chasers. I love bi & pan men, but I can’t kick the fear that nobody who isn’t interested in women could be interested in me.

But this isn’t something I’ve seen anyone outside of the transmasc community address, and it’s frustrating. I don’t think most folks even know it happens, even if they’re already talking about similar issues in the lesbian community. If they do, well, nobody else is talking about it. How bad can it really be?

I’d love to see more discussions about the mlm community, the history of it, the problems with it, and ways these things could be better addressed. And I’d love for it to not just boil down to, like, drawing weird and unhinged lines between attraction to women and how misogynistic a person is.

#transmasc #mlm #trans mlm #ftm mlm #long post #transphobia tw #transandrophobia #not horses #Anonymous

[nothorses]

I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, and I worry about saying this off anon but I want to actually, be a face as I do. When I came out I knew I wasn't cis, and I was lucky enough to have the support of two wonderful trans partners, but I had an extremely hard time finding my place in the trans community. I am pro MOGAI and new, hyperspecific terms because I know how important it can be to want to put a name, a flag, and individual pride to your identity. 1/?

I switched my own terms quite a lot, from demigirl to genderfae to genderflux to where I am now, genderfluid. But I remember there was a moment, because I was so sure I was only female aligned, where I thought for just a moment that I might be a boy, and I was terrified, I didnt want to be a boy, I didnt want to be "that trans." Like every trans person, I struggled with internalized transphobia, not feeling valid or true enough in my identity, 2/15

But that dreadful feeling of being Scared of being a boy is something I think about a lot, and something I think is truly telling. I'll admit I primarily (only) use tumblr because social media honestly isnt my thing, so I can only speak to what I've seen here, but I remember seeing so little about trans men, other than the occasional mention in broad positivity posts, the even rarer info about binding or passing, but I did see how much people hated men. 3/15

It was always implied to be about cis men, I've been spared the more modern issues regarding overt hatred of trans men, but I saw the constant anger and vitriol and genuine hatred for men. And I realize now I wasnt just scared of being "too trans" I was scared of being hated. So I made myself nonthreatening, I called myself a boy, I performed femininity to an even higher, though subversive standard, because I was still so scared of being a man. The enemy. The oppressor. 4/15

It took many more months to dare say I wanted to call myself a man, and even then I was scared, in the comfort and safety of my girlfriend's company. I felt dirty saying it, and I still do. I always only dare to refer to myself as a trans man, instead of just as a man. And I do want to sidetrack for a moment and say my relationship to gender, as a genderfluid person, is admittedly more complex than just when I feel this way, in other ways people are also particularly hateful towards, 5/15

But even with those other facets, and my fear of being open in them, pale in comparison to my relationship with masculinity. Because when I did come out and admit to myself that sometimes, I am not a woman, or nonbinary, I am a man, I became more aware of things. I exited wonderland, so to say. Suddenly I became so much more aware of how much people simply did not care about me or people like me, and especially not our problems or concerns. 6/15

I saw how invisible I was, and worse than that, I saw a very subtle malice. The only mention of trans men were in those broad positivity posts including everyone under the trans umbrella, or in the rare case something was positive exclusively for trans men, it was always reblogged with "dont forget trans women/enby people" tacked on, I remember once I looked in the trans tag and counted how many posts it took to find one exclusively about trans men that didnt mention binding 7/15

I got into the forties. Because on other posts, I would see people make passive aggressive remarks about how "trans men are talked about too much" or "there's all these resources for trans men, what about trans women" and I wanted to know on what earth the people who said that were living on, because the only, and I mean the only thing people tend to talk about in regards to trans men is how to safely bind, and rarely, the effects of HRT. 8/15

This happened a while ago, but I remember seeing a number of posts on my dash about how much representation trans men receive. I believe there was a panel about trans people, where a majority of the panelists were trans men, and trans women were less represented than them. They encouraged people to complain, said we received too much attention, and pointed at mythical trans male rep in media that in reality, I could count on one hand. I remember being so angry and passionate about it 9/15

Now im honestly just tired. I dont feel accepted by the trans community, and even the trans male community is iffy (I fit in amongst mogai people most, but I cant deny trumeds are particularly prevalent, and it wore on me), and it's so tiring to have every post made by trans men for trans men have to be preambled by belittling themselves and downplaying their own suffering. I just want to exist in peace, but I feel like that's too much to ask. 10/15

I've reached a point of exhaustion that I have become entirely apathetic to my own gender, what was once a deeply important aspect of my identity. I feel disconnected from it, and as a consequence from my own body. I don't bother examining it anymore because I can't feel it, as someone who suffers from dissociation, I feel dissociated from it in order to protect myself, something I was once so openly proud about. 11/15

Im scared to try and push for transition, for my own personal reasons, but now on top of those Im terrified of being silenced and belittled and hated for something that should make me happy. I've tried so hard not to feed into the lateral violence and become embittered towards trans women, because that's not fair, but I won't lie and say it hasnt been hard when I have seen more than I ever would've liked be so willing to ignore or outright throw their brothers under the bus 12/15

And of course there are even more who do show their support for their brothers, and for that im thankful, but this invisibility effects how I perceive everything. I feel like I've been pushed back into the closet, I say im trans because I know I'm not cis but I don't even know who I am, what my place is, and I'm scared to explore because I'm scared that who I am will be violently rejected by the people meant to support me. I want to be free to even explore who I am. 13/15

I wish people would listen to my experiences and what I have to say, but in every microaggression every act of ignoring I feel silenced. Trans men are viewed as predatory, just in a different way; trans men are fetishized and have chasers; trans men face higher rates of violence and sexual assault for being trans men; research about transmasc transition is almost nonexistent, and new, better surgeries are not even thought about; transmasc history is erased and silenced. 14/15

I, feel like im rambling at this point, and I'm sorry I've been so longwinded, I just. I want to thank you, for creating a space where I can speak my truth, because before finding your blog I didn't think anyone would care. I feel like I have so much more to say but honestly im scared, and too tired, and have said enough for now. I just want this feeling of loneliness to go away and hopefully I'll find a way to accept myself. Thank you for listening to me, and giving me a platform to speak 15/15

(Edited the numbers for accuracy)

Thank you for trusting me with this, and to other folks: I think this is an important narrative to listen to and share!

#trans #transmasc #transgender #ftm #nonbinary #the 'transmascs are overrepresented' argument is also provably false #there are about 1/3 the amount of trans male characters in film and tv that there are trans female #and thats being generous #its very clearly an issue of hypervisibility v invisibility and both groups struggle in different ways! #harlequincy