#Bruce Wayne critical

[autisticrosewilson]

While we're on the topic of De-aging AU's I wanna talk about Jason and Damian if Jason was 14 again real quick.

Do you guys think that Damian looks at this version of Jason, so different from the version he knows, nothing like the person he was told Jason was, and feels uncomfortably seen?

Damian was always told that Jason died because he was reckless, because he disobeyed orders, he was fired as Robin and he got himself killed. A cautionary tale, not a threat to his position. He dismisses Jason because Bruce does, because Dick does, because sometimes even Babs and Alfred do.

That's not the kid that he's looking at now. This Jason is happy, and smart, and full of love that has not yet soured into grief. He hangs on Bruce's every word, trains until his hands bleed and his body gives out to perfect the moves Bruce teaches him. He looks at Bruce with stars in his eyes and he calls him dad.

And Damian can't help but think, that this is the perfect Robin. The perfect son. And if Jason - sweet, loving, strong, Jason - can be fired, can die and have his room locked away and his pictures torn down, can have his last memory as Robin be as A Good Soldier, how could the rest of them ever compete? What could Damian do to stand a chance?

Jason will never grow out of the shadow of Robin, like the rest of them did. As long as Bruce, and Dick, and Babs, and Alfred look at him and see a dead kid who came back wrong, he will never get to be anything else. He will not get to be looked at through who he is now without the shadow of a dead boy looming over him.

And the worst part? Jason is exactly the same person he was back then. Bitter, sure, angry, justifiably, but he is still the boy with too much love in his heart and righteous fury festering in his gut. He is exactly the same boy who threw himself in front of an explosion to save his mother.

(The lines between the mother that betrayed him and the father that disgraced him are so very blurred. Fire or blade or crowbars or fists it does not matter. It ends the same way it always does because Jason Todd always dies, in every universe, in every timeline, Jason dies and crawls out only to be killed again and again and again.)

#dc #jason todd #damian wayne #de aging #I personally am obsessed with the headcanon that they met in the league which lends it's own sense of tragedy #but this is a more canon take on it #Bruce Wayne critical #do you guys think he watched Jason fall back into old routines and is so unbelievably angry because none of it matters #do you think he listens to Jason talk about homework and his grades and his clubs and the colleges he wants to go to #and all he can think of is how unfair it is #that Jason never gets it. That everything about who he was got distorted and exaggerated and there was nothing left of this boy #that the love and blood and late nights never mean anything because this is a ghost walking the halls disproving all the legends #what is the prodigal son to do when he comes home but the locks have changed

[disniq]

[Original post here, but I felt this deserved it's own @bloodyentrails]

IT DOES!!

Batman #138 preview

I was talking to @thekangarou last night about how Bruce's insistence here that Jason move away and find a "normal" life and fall in love and it's not a punishment, Jason, even if I'm not actually giving you a choice in any of it feels almost like forced heteronormativity too, like.

This is the asylum for hysterical women; this is the convertion therapy for the queer kid you can't accept; this is lobotomising your mentally ill son because you can't learn to handle his PTSD symptoms.

#gotham war #gotham war spoilers #jason todd #bruce wayne #bruce wayne critical #jason is female coded and queer coded and mentally ill coded and i am LIVING

[thecruellestmonth]

HISTORY MADE: Bruce Wayne Says "I Love You" to Jason Todd for the first time EVER

It is an historic occasion! In Batman (2016) #138 by writer Chip Zdarsky, Bruce Wayne says "I love you" to his son Jason Todd for the first time in forty (40) years of comics publication. In fact, Bruce says it not just once, but two (2) whole times!

This is also the first time that any of Jason's oddly long series of parents has been depicted saying "I love you" to him.

We do so love an involved parent who openly communicates his feelings about his child. Truly, nobody can shatter expectations like BATMAN!

Now every time someone says "I love you" to Jason, we all can look back at this milestone moment. A first only happens once, and this is now and forever Bruce's first "I love you" to Jason in comics history.

#Jason Todd #Bruce and Jason #Batfamily #Batman 138 #Batman comics #Batdad #Zdarsky #Bruce Wayne critical #Gotham War #family drama CW #Batman 138 spoilers #UGH my babies I love them so much!! <3 <3 #I know Starfire says ILY to Dick and so do his parents in flashbacks. And now Babs etc. #Jack Drake said it to Tim. #Steph and Tim say it to each other. #Crystal Brown also says it to Steph right?? #And then Cass says it to Steph in the best issue of the latest Batgirls series. #I don't think anyone has officially said it to Cass yet?? Outrageous. #Bruce and Talia have both said it to Damian. #Lots of people have said it to Bruce. #Rose and Jason say it to each other in the zombie apocalypse alternate universe where they're married. #id in alt text #ID stolen from Tumblr user laufire

[mzminola]

Bruce sets up an elaborate mindfuck for Tim's birthday in an attempt to make Tim less trusting of even allies, giving him a mental breakdown. Bruce claims this will make Tim a better vigilante.

Tim, upon figuring it out, throws his Robin uniform literally in Bruce's face, cussing him out (like, actually censored swears, which Tim usually doesn't use), and quits. He talks with Steph about how messed up it was, and she empathizes out of her own messed up experiences with Bruce.

An unclear but short time later, probably a few days, Tim un-quits and states to Bruce that he doesn't expect an apology (not because it's unnecessary, but because he knows Bruce).

~

Stephanie returns from presumed death, finds Bruce, and accepts his orders to not reveal herself to everyone else & to take extreme actions to, once again in Bruce's estimate, make Tim a better vigilante.

This includes running around town in her original costume so Tim thinks his dead friend has a copycat, hiring people to attack him, working with a bomber, and even after knocking all that off, not sharing pertinent information about it with Tim, resulting in Tim being caught in an explosion.

Tim yells at Stephanie and says "Don't let me catch you wearing [the Spoiler] costume ever again." When she tracks him down a little later, he refuses to speak with her.

An unclear amount of time later, probably a few months, Tim is willing to work with Stephanie to stop a supervillain plot.

~

Some fans treat Tim's word-choice in the confrontation with Steph as him trying to control her. As him thinking he's got the authority to decide who can and cannot operate as a vigilante, at least in Gotham.

But. Like. One, aside from this one conversation, he takes no actions to stop her. He doesn't steal her gear (like Bruce sometimes steals people's uniform), he doesn't go and tell other people to stop working with her, he doesn't even go snitch to her mom.

Tim just. Tells the friend who got him very badly hurt while mindfucking him that he doesn't want to see her in the field again.

Two, it's a pretty dang similar response to when Bruce mindfucked him in the first example. Tim is the one who insists Batman needs a Robin. And here he is depriving Batman of Robin.

Yet if I tried to claim "Tim quitting Robin is his attempt to control Batman, is Tim acting like he has authority to stop Bruce from being a vigilante" you'd laugh in my face. Because that is a huge leap to make, with convoluted logic, and isn't supported by the rest of the text.

Bruce & Stephanie both screw Tim up really badly.

He confronts them and says he's breaking ties.

Then after a little distance, he goes right back to working with them.

And some people think this is...controlling? Don't get me wrong, Tim has some controlling tendencies, they all do, but it's usually teaming up with Alfred to stop Bruce patrolling while injured, and lying his ass off to everyone so he can do what he wants.

This? Is not that.

#Robin 1993 #and a little bit of RR #Bruce Wayne Critical #Stephanie Brown Critical #DC #Batfam #comics meta #Tim Drake #meanwhile Cass nerve strikes both Steph and Babs at least once each #to stop them from following her or stopping her when she wants to go do something dangerous alone #and nobody talks shit about her for THAT #I love Cass! she is simply not exempt from Being An Asshole sometimes #and it does drive me a bit buggy that like... #it never comes up in these discussions #Bruce Wayne #Stephanie Brown #characters are all tagged for archival purposes #dunno if this is Fandom Critical or just Fandom Exasperated

[dolldefaced]

batman #138 / the yellow wallpaper - charlotte perkins gilman

i saw this post by @disniq in the tags and became possessed

#jason todd #dc #gotham war #batman 138 #gotham war spoilers #bruce wayne critical #web weaving #hm the parallels

[jasontoddssuper]

Just saw a 'Miles gets adopted by Bruce and is a Wayne' fic.Please don't do that

#sorry but bruce isn't peter b parker and especially not jefferson morales miles would never view him as his dad in any way😭😭😭😭😭😭 #also extra points for the erasure of good black parents to replace them with a white dude who's been abusive to his kids in multiple canons #and they had his hero name be 'black spider' which maybe it's just me but that feels racialized and op was very obviously white #miles morales #miles morales deserves better #spiderverse #atsv #btsv #spiderman #bruce wayne critical #batfam #blue lantern miles #apollo blessed miles #the anomalies #as per always my miles is bi trans and aspec autistic/adhd/mdd with anxiety and kidcore/pastel punk #wfa #anti wfa #spiderband #spiderfam #spider society #ghostflower #punkflower #flowerchai #flowerbyte #antiblackness cw #i'm black tag #💌 #letters from summer

[forlornmelody]

Wow, Jason fans are particularly mad at Bruce right now. I wondered what happened.

*Reads Gotham War*

Oh. OH.

#what the actual fuck Bruce #you literally let Joker live after everything but you drug your own kid? #I feel like Rose is gonna have some words with him and they ain't gonna be nice ones #dc comics #jason todd #bruce wayne critical #gotham war

[wortsandall]

one of my strongest headcanons you'll have to pry off my dead body is jason being mute after getting his throat slit. that the helmet helps conceal his identity, but also has some sort of vocal modification that helps him speak. outside of the helmet, he communicates exclusively through sign language. maybe he can still speak somewhat, but it hurts. so he doesn't unless there's a point he really wants to get across.

it's one of his strongest motivators to stay away from the rest of the batclan. part of him wants to shove it in bruce's face as another "fuck you!" he wants to scream at bruce: you won't kill the joker, but you'll hurt me? protect the man who killed me and leave me disabled?

but it's easier to keep his distance. for both of him. that way bruce doesn't have to look his greatest failure in the eyes. that way he doesn't have to deal with bruce's guilt. a guilt so strong that it makes everyone around compulsively feel the need to apologize.

he won't let it happen this time. jason doesn't have anything to apologize for. not this time. and not ever again.

#if you think its ooc #i dont care #i live to torture my blorbos #jason todd #jason todd hc #bruce wayne #bruce wayne critical

[gecemi09]

Kinda feel like people who are saying "But its not Bruce!!! It's Zur!!!!!" are lowkey missing the point. Let's be honest, even if Zur didn't exist I could STILL see Bruce doing the shit that he's doing right now. And for a characters who is supposed to be a compassionate and empathetic hero that, I feel, is a huge problem.

I don't need him to be a perfect parent, that would be unrealistic but the fact that he has been an abusive and even a monster of a father for years under many different authors is simply unacceptable.

#bat meta #bruce wayne #gotham war #batman #bruce wayne critical

[casscainchronicles]

Why Did Batman Take in Jason Todd? (Part 2)

In Batman 410 we get the first mention (I believe) of Batman's motivation being steering Jason away from a criminal life and saving him from an early death.

As shown above, he first uses the argument when he needs to defend himself against the argument that he is endangering a child.

He also defends himself to Commissioner Gordon.

This time he argues that Jason's life means he is not only not a child. But older and tougher than both himself and Jim Gordon.

Then there is this in Batman 411:

This occurs after Jason loses it at Two Face. Jason is upset at Bruce hiding things from him.

Bruce argues he is trying to protect Jason but Jason doesn't understand why given that Batman takes him into combat. Jason himself says he doesn't really see Bruce as protecting him at this point.

In Batman 415, we get another reference to Batman needing a partner.

This is Batman's internal narrative. That he needs a Robin. When he talks he uses arguments such as Jason being destined to be a criminal or older and tougher due to his difficult childhood but it is clear from his thoughts he is at least partially motivated to have Jason fight crime by his own needs.

#jason todd #bruce wayne #jason todd meta #batman meta #bruce wayne critical #kinda? #i am dissatisfied with this part #i might come back to edit this later #i just want to post it now #before i convince myself to not post at all

[disniq]

i can't believe bruce yellow wallpapered jason

Hi Anon! I know you're probably being facetious, but genuinely it makes absolute and total sense to me given Bruce's history with Jason!

For all of Bruce and Jason's recurring physical beat-down fights, it's the psychological and emotional abuse that's always felt more insidious to me.

This is the man who purposely tricked Jason into returning to the scene of his own brutal murder in the hopes that he would relive his own death so Bruce could figure out how he came back.

Batman and Robin (2011) #20

This is the man who hits Jason harder than he hits the Joker. Who beats his son so badly he can't even fire a gun a month later, and then only shows up to say "you're not welcome in Gotham, your best friend is dead, and you need the occasional beating to keep in line, but we have each other's backs".

RHatO (2016) #25 and #27

This is the man who sent Jason undercover with literal, actual, known villains conducting extremely unethical science experiments, almost getting Jason killed multiple times. And then, when Jason raised concerns about them letting this operation continue, Bruce ignored him, brushed his concerns aside, and treated Jason as though this was all his fault.

Task Force Z #4 and #6

Not to mention Bruce's habit of consistently *starting* fights with Jason and then twisting it around to blame Jason, to make him think it's his choice and not Bruce's.

Task Force Z #6 | Catwoman #57 | RHatO #25

So, yeah.

I can believe Bruce Yellow Wallpapered Jason

#bruce wayne #jason todd #bruce wayne critical #gotham war #gotham war spoilers #asked and answered

[thecruellestmonth]

Do you guys really believe that killing is the singular bad thing that cops do?

Or even that killing is the most frequent bad thing that cops do?

Are you saying that if cops didn't kill, then they'd be the same as Batman? Because then you're suggesting that effectively Batman already is a cop, with the exception that he hasn't killed (just like the majority of U.S. cops, who have never once shot or killed anybody).

I'm a bit worried to see opinions suggesting that only killing is wrong—and that violence, stalking, and humiliation are okay. In real-life, police commit countless acts of those "little" abuses, terrorizing entire communities, before they murder anybody.

Invading people's privacy is wrong. Hurting people to the point of hospitalization is wrong. Forcibly drugging people is wrong. Putting people in cages is wrong. Torture and "enhanced interrogation" are wrong. Ambushing people in their homes and safe places is wrong. Keeping inexhaustible wealth is wrong.

Superhero comics are power fantasies. Not all fantasies need to reflect our ideology in reality. But once you apply your real-life values to fiction, once you decide that fiction showcases exemplary real-life ideology—then your praise for Batman's ideology does become a worrying reflection of your real-life understanding of social issues.

#copaganda #Bruce Wayne critical #GCPD #fandom discourse #Batman copaganda #police brutality cw #Almost sorry to drag serious discussion of copaganda into ridiculous superhero comics but I swear the other guys started it first... #To be clear I'm completely disinterested in condemning or interrogating Bruce over his personal choice not to kill. #But I am so fascinated in how he justifies his own use of violence and privilege!!! So very very fascinated!! #Once again: LESLIE THOMPKINS IS RIGHT. #Actually I'm not gonna tag this post as @nti Bruce W@yne--because really I enjoy canon Bruce a hell of a lot more than his stans do lol. #Sorry but Batman isn't a darling anti-cop revolutionary. If he were then he'd get in line behind Green Arrow and like the Invisibles. #I mean maybe The Audio Adventures version is anti cop but still in a free-market libertarian power fantasy kind of way if you can dig that. #violence mention cw #murder mention cw #fandom drama #This is why Cheer doesn't work because Red Hood realizes 'Oh I don't want kids to lose their parents like I lost mine-- #--therefore I won't murder anymore. It's time to put my faith in the system. 👼👼👼' #Jason sweetie... you lost your father firstly to criminalization and incarceration for property crime. #You lost your mother to poverty and addiction. You are actually not like Batdaddy and your trauma is not a mere echo of his trauma. #Batman discourse

[adelinamoteru]

the visceral negative reaction that runs through my body whenever I hear the words “batman cant kill bc then he becomes the batman who laughs” u know what. I really wish he would. and then I wish he would kill me next.

#dc #dcu #anti batman #anti bruce wayne #batman critical #bruce wayne critical #tagging so I don’t kill ur vibes #first of all. #that is entirely specific to one universe #second of all. #a so called hero vigilante who can’t stop himself from killing after he lets himself do it the first time #should not be out in the streets fighting crime at all #he should be in therapy is fucking what #‘oh man they dont know about the batman who laughs’ god I rlly fucking wish I didn’t #batman #bruce wayne #joker

[mzminola]

Bruce telling Steph Tim’s civilian identity, Dick transferring the Robin mantle to Damian, both things that can be described as Batman giving away Tim’s identity, neither of them bothering to even warn Tim first, let alone ask.

#Bruce Wayne Critical #Dick Grayson critical #I guess? #man I miss when only the first five tags in an original post showed up in the tracked tags #Red Robin #Robin 1993 #Tim Drake #Bruce Wayne #Dick Grayson #comics meta #DC #Batfam #identity themes #secrets and autonomy and Batman not respecting Robin's #chewing on this #I don't think this thought is GOING anywhere #I just need to nail that parallel down since it popped into my head

[zeroducks-2]

I don’t understand how Clark is even Bruce’s friend after reading how Bruce treats his sidekicks

There's more than one reason.

All heroes - beside Barry Allen - haven't been (and often still aren't) always sunshine and rainbows when it comes to their sidekicks. I won't go in depths with all of them but Bruce isn't the only abusive one. Consider that the Leaguers were all pretty young when their sidekicks came around and made lots of mistakes, whether because of inexperience or because they were misguided, thinking that being harsh and unforgiving would have built character for their little counterparts (again, Barry is a stark exception to this). And importantly, how to mentor a sidekick was no one's business except the mentor's. You don't see Barry tapping on Arthur's shoulder and tell him "stop hitting Garth", despite how affectionate and careful with children Barry has always been. Same thing goes with Clark and Bruce.

Of course seeing Bruce treat his sidekicks that way over more than two decades should be enough for anyone to reconsider the friendship, but comics are not real life. Being "difficult" is part of Bruce's whole deal: he pushes away the people he loves, he isolates, keeps to himself and stews in his own pot of demons and loneliness. And Clark loves him, he really really does, and wouldn't leave him alone despite the abusive behaviors Bruce displays towards, well, pretty much everyone (Clark included. I know Superbat shippers tend to live up on the candy mountain where everything is perfect between Bruce and Clark, but Bruce is very much abusive, manipulative and an asshole to Clark too and invariably, Clark forgives him). So the thing is, Clark loves both Bruce and Dick. He recognizes Bruce's flaws and the fact that if he pulled away, it would just hurt Bruce and Dick, and solve nothing.

More in general, Bruce's behavior in this sense is normalized. Read any comic of anyone interacting with Bruce for more than 1 minute, and there will be some rationalization or justification for the shit he pulls at some point in the story (not necessarily towards his sidekicks but in general). His personality is full of jagged edges and if you try to touch you'll likely cut yourself, and all the people close to him know and accept this - luckily for Bruce, because otherwise he'd be entirely alone. This dynamic consistently hurt his friends and family though, and it's especially damaging to the people who Bruce has power over, namely his sidekicks. But everyone normalizes this and considers it part of the "Batman deal", which is why no one does anything meaningful to make him stop, or cuts ties with him over it.

There's another reason, and this one is more meta. When discussing Bruce we can't forget that the character is 80+ and has been written by hundreds of people. And depending from writer to writer, his behavior towards his sidekicks is perceived as more or less abusive: some people make him do the most terrifying things and present them as "tough love", or "necessary for Robin's growth", or even a symptom of how Bruce is the perfect mentor and is preparing his sidekicks to the harsh reality of their vigilante duties. The emotional incompetence (and therefore neglect) is shown as something masculine and therefore desirable, necessary to survive in a world where the Mission is more important than everything else, and everyone is potentially out to get them. So even if one writer will have Clark actively disliking Bruce's behavior towards any Robin, it's likely that the next writer will just drop the plotline and pretend it never happened because they see nothing wrong with it.

And finally. I know that I've said "comics are not real life" at one point, but if I am to be entirely honest with you anon, this is exactly how it works in real life too. People are friends with people who abuse the shit out of their kids, employees, waiters at the coffee shop. Awful parents have friends, managers who act like slave owners have friends, teachers who vent their frustration on kids have friends - it happens all the time and if abusers weren't coddled, justified and even catered to, the number of traumatized people in the world would be drastically inferior. Clark remaining friends with Bruce despite everything is honestly way more realistic than lots of people claim it is.

#I could expand more but these are the most important points I feel #bruce wayne critical #my asks #my meta

[forlornmelody]

Slade Wilson tracking Bruce Wayne down and calling him a terrible father.

#Excuse me #after how you treated ALL your kids? #And Bruce is all #And Slade is all “YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES.” #gotham war #dc comics #slade wilson #bruce wayne critical