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#Selfishness vs. Selflessness Redux

dustylogicalityrat · 16 days

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i fucking missed April 13th, and i am SO pissed. angay,

#sanders sides #thomas sanders #putting others first #selfishness vs. selflessness redux #selfishness vs. selflessness

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loganslowdown4 · 27 days

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This has been bugging me for a long time but I finally figured out the foreshadowing here—

It explains that Roman didn’t leave just because he felt ganged up on, betrayed or made fun of in SvS Redux—

He left mostly because he felt guilty. He feels like he didn’t do his job well enough—

I think this is probably not a new revelation but I think banter about it gets buried in the idea that no one seems to be on Roman’s side about his feelings towards Janus, or about Patton’s sudden ‘allegiance change’. I think those are fair points but I also think that Roman is heavily disappointed in himself for letting c!Thomas get so far off the rails that Thomas starts choosing alternate (less honourable) approaches to his decision-making (Janus). This is why Roman mentions his ‘mistakes’ in Flirting With Social Anxiety.

Also this is why Virgil is pissed about Thomas’ decisions in that video too. Thomas can’t keep lying to begin a new relationship with a new guy. Fortunately however, c!Thomas is spared having make an excuse (a lie) to approach Nico, because Nico approaches him instead.

Anyway, Roman needs a genuine win soon or I’m gonna explode 😃❤️

Thanks for reading! 😄

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phantomhunt · 2 months

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After taking a mental health break from social media, we're backkk!!!

[image ID: a teenager cosplaying Patton Sanders from the series Sanders Sides, their makeup is black freckles, cyan eyeshadow, and a cyan heart on their cheek, they're also wearing rainbow fingerless gloves and have frog eyes on their head. End ID]

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virgilsjourney · 2 years

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See, the interesting thing for me about Janus is that despite acting like he’s Got A Plan All The Time, he’s quite impulsive and short-sighted.

Like he comes up with the courtroom scenario on the spot and it’s clear that he’s revelling in it—he’s enjoying himself, having fun with giving everyone their roles, showing off… And it’s precisely through being in a courtroom environment, plus his role as the ‘Honourable Justice Roman’, that inspires Roman to ‘do the honourable thing’ and give his sentence.

And Janus is completely caught unawares by this—but that’s not the only time!

When Logan talks about effective altruism in SVS Redux, Janus looks surprised by the fact that Logan’s points align with his own… it’s a cruel irony ‘cause you could look at it like: Janus. You didn’t even need to forcibly remove Logan from the conversation, he would have agreed with you lmao*

*That being said, obviously everything needed to happen as it did so that the whole conflict in the episodes was even possible. Plus, I love part of the pain being the idea that such things while technically preventable in hindsight, if they were avoided it would probably just delay the inevitable conflict. There’s also the angle of Janus evoking his Roman God namesake as “presiding over the beginning and ending of conflict,” (x) so in that sense he brings out things that might’ve otherwise remained buried.

But I am intrigued at the thought that Janus isn’t completely aware of the domino effect of consequences he sets in motion—I’m thinking especially of him replacing Logan while being focused on challenging Patton. And there’s been notable moments where he can’t predict others’ behaviour… so I wonder if he’ll be surprised again in the future… 👀

#sanders sides #janus sanders #sanders sides theory #sanders sides meta #sanders sides analysis #sanders sides prediction #selfishness vs selflessness #svs redux

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emo-typewriter · 2 years

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Moceit Appreciation Week 2022

Day 7: Cuddles/Unity

Word Count: 419

Warnings: Nightmares

Available On Ao3

@moceit-appreciation-week

“My name… My name is Janus.” I stared at him, and his single bare hand. Another name. He trusts us with his name? I smiled ever so slightly for a moment, though the night’s events still haunted me.

“Pffft! Janus?!” Roman laughed, “What are you, a middle school librarian? It’s a stupid name.”

“Oh, Roman thank god you don’t have a moustache. Otherwise, between you and Remus, I wouldn’t know who the evil twin is,” De- Janus shot back. I tried to speak up, to make things right… but what would I say? Could I even fix this? My voice failed me. I looked away from Roman, not wanting to see his pain.

“Are you guys seriously gonna take his side?”

“N-no I…”

“Over me?”

“He-”

“Thomas… I thought I was your hero.”

“Y-You are!” I stayed silent, unsure what to do; what to say.

“Wow! I can’t believe this. Did you forget that he’s EVIL?! You’re not! Or you’re not supposed to be. You’re supposed to be good!” I… am good?

-----------

I shot up, breathing heavily, covered in sweat.

“There you are my Dear,” he hummed softly, cupping my cheek. I looked up at him.

“Janus,” I mumbled, tearing up and crying.

“Hey, hey Dear. What’s wrong?”

“Nightmare,” I mumbled, as his gloved hands wiped my tears away. I knew this was his silent prompt to say more.

“He looked at me with such pain and hatred. Am I a good person?” I cried.

“Shh, shh. It’s okay. I know it’s still painful, but it was years ago. We’re all united… well Remus has his own opinions, but he’s calmed since then.” I hiccupped, nodding slowly. I was still crying, though he was helping.

“How does hot chocolate and cuddles sound?” He asked gently, still cupping my cheek.

“It sounds good,” I mumbled. He hummed in response. He then picked me up, koala style. He walked me down to the kitchen, where Roman was drinking some almond milk.

“Hey Janus, hey Patton,” He spoke calmly. I didn’t talk, just sniffling, trying to stop crying.

“He had that nightmare again, so we are having hot chocolate and cuddles,” Janus explained, placing me on the counter.

“Remember the extra marshmallows!” Roman chirped, before finishing his glass and leaving.

Janus made our hot chocolates, as I slowly shuffled to the couch, and Janus followed. He then put on Winne The Poo for me. I rested my head on his shoulder, sipping my hot chocolate.

“I l-love you.”

“Love you too Darling.”

#sanders sides #moceitweek2022 #moceitappreciationweek #moceitweek #moceit #janus sanders #deceit sanders #patton sanders #morality sanders #roman sanders #selfishness vs selflessness #selfishness vs selflessness redux

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rambling-prince-thoughts · 10 months

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rewatching selfishness vs selflessness for the 100th time in a row and there’s this one detail that i always notice. it hurts like a bitch every time i see it too.

in the scene where janus is questioning logan, he obviously takes advantage of the fact that logan had been forgotten by thomas and the rest of the sides when they all entered the courtroom scenario in the first place. logan was (rightfully and obviously) shocked to notice that they were enacting the scenario without him, logic, the person who would undoubtedly be the most excited to do so and would have the most knowledge about courtroom procedures.

but there is the moment where he says that there’s “always room for him” and janus responds with, “i know, that’s what i said! but patton insisted we leave you alone” and that moment sticks with me whenever i watch this episode.

logan immediately turns to look at patton with a surprised, hurt look on his face because he can’t believe that patton would say something like that about him. it’s true that him and patton don’t usually see eye to eye on things, but patton does value his input and they resolved most of their issues during the earlier stages of the sanders sides videos (although not completely).

i find that interesting because whenever janus targets logan, he always makes it a point to draw attention to the fact that logan isn’t very well liked, mostly because he embodies logic and claims not to feel anything, unlike the rest of the sides (who as thomas once put it, are too zany or relatable). he even calls out logan for this during the events of svs.

his “oh, of course you don’t” is dripping with sarcasm and janus is the lord of the lies, he would know when someone is lying. keeping that aside, it was obvious that a few minutes ago, janus’ lie about patton disregarding logan’s usefulness during the courtroom scenario hurt logan, so much so that it was visible on his face. roman’s comment of “did you see the look on his face?” was a nod to that.

so logan, in saying that he doesn’t feel anything, is lying about his own feelings.

additionally, it’s not the first time janus has used patton specifically to counteract logan and lie to him. the whole episode of “can LYING be good?” featured janus, disguised as patton, playing to logan’s likings via patton’s charm. it was evident from the first minute that logan appeared onscreen.

after that, he simply had patton reference famous philosophers, and logan clearly admired that because he seemed to be quite happy about it, even though virgil immediately became suspicious.

janus picked up on the fact that logan didn’t believe that patton would ever try to hurt him on purpose, and at least patton wouldn’t exclude him from things. that patton would listen to him. which makes it all the more sad that in svs redux, when logan said that philosophers would not agree with patton (after patton asked for his input), patton took the easy way out and pulled logan out of the situation.

it’s also why logan ignored patton when he tried to offer comfort after logan reappeared and said “i’m just here to deliver one last fact, then i will do you all a favour and spare you my company.” in fact, he ended up yelling over patton so he could get his point across and actually be heard.

i love logan and patton’s duo, and i really hope they resolve this during logan’s arc. in the meantime, sending love to our logical boy because he needs it.

(an unofficial part two to this post is now up, delving a little more into logan and patton’s relationship. i’ve hyperfixated on the glasses gays at this point /hj)

#sanders sides #rambling prince thoughts #logicality #logan angst #logan sanders #patton sanders #janus sanders #selfishness vs selflessness #logan really needs a break #someone please give him a hug too while you’re at it #the nerd is trying his best and we love him for it

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emoprincey · 7 months

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[Image description 1: A screenshot of Janus from the Sanders Sides video Selfishness vs Selflessness redux. A tumblr post by schizophrenwitch is overlayed in the bottom right corner, which reads "i'm becoming a snake so i will never have to deal with joint pain again see you losers later i'm going to go warm myself on a rock in the sun".

Image description 2: A screenshot of Janus from the same episode with Logan's Lowdown, a small pixilated picture of Logan Sanders, at the bottom of the screen. Next to Logan is a comment from vaityadil which reads, "king do you know what snakes are made of. like huge mood but they are joints all the way down also".

Image description 3: A screenshot of Janus from the same episode with the text, "well team it seems i don't actually know anything about snakes". / End image description.]

#sanders sides #janus sanders #ts janus

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disneybrandautism · 5 months

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finn’s sander sides thoughts of the day:

In “putting others first - selfishness vs. selflessness redux” everyone gets mad at roman for being mean and not trusting deceit, but in the first selfishness vs. selflessness everyone was mad at roman for trusting deceit.

roman gets mad that everyone took deceits side over his and i feel like he’s valid. sure was roman mean for making fun of deceits name? yeah a little.

but i feel like it’s also okay for roman to be mad that he was always told he had to be selfless then someone nobody trusts comes along and says he’s allowed to be selfish and he’s just expected to trust that!??

he trusted patton and patton destroys that in one episode. then roman is just not allowed to be mad??? also the comment “roman if remus didn’t have a mustache i wouldn’t be sure who the evil twin is,” and NOBODY standing up for roman.

this means that roman sunk down thinking patton and thomas agree. which honestly we are never told contrary.

again patton asked him to go back on everything he was taught abt selflessness and he was supposed to do that in like what? 30 minutes??? in conclusion the way roman is treated is incredibly unfair in s vs. s redux and he doesn’t deserve all the hate he got.

#can you tell im hyperfixating #can you also tell i love roman sanders?#sanders sides #roman sanders #selflessness vs selfishness #i cant believe remus and virgil were playing just dance during this #patton sanders #patton saying we love you kiddo was incredibly fucked #janus sanders #i wish i knew how tumblr tagging works #thomas sanders #deceit sanders

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orbmanson7 · 1 year

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Expressing Anger: An Extensive Analysis of Logan's Statement in SVS:R

Let's talk about Logan's statement here, shall we? (This is a very long post; continue at your own risk.)

The last plot-specific episode, Putting Others First (aka Selfishness vs Selflessness: Redux), showed something unique about Logan that I haven't seen many people mention.

Logan spoke up about his frustration.

This may seem insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but hear me out.

Typically, Logan states facts and provable truths; he sticks to what he knows and what he believes will be useful for the topic at hand.

However, he has had moments of frustration, annoyance, and anger, alongside other emotions that he may or may not even be aware of, that don't necessarily counter the facts he relays, but can change their meaning and interpretation. In these moments, something precedes Logan's anger and he has, at times, responded impulsively instead of thinking through his actions and deciding on a better move.

Take, for instance, the moment in Learning New Things About Ourselves where Roman and Logan argue for a second time about clarification, and Roman remarks that Logan wasn't just going "above and beyond" with clarity but that he was going "overboard" with it and that it was stupid. This finally bothers Logan enough that he crumples up the card in his fist and shouts as he throws it at Roman, hitting him in the eye.

Now, Logan instantly expresses shock, confusion, and then regret after this moment, and then promptly apologizes for his behavior and suggests he should leave, likely to prevent the unusual situation from happening again.

Logan at no point in the rest of the episode addresses what caused him to react that way. He speaks on the initial argument he and Roman had, but focuses more on the root of the problem presented there and agrees to try to do better.

When it comes to his emotions, though, Logan's response is only to ever explain that he doesn't have emotions, which we (and everyone else) know is a lie, including Logan.

Because Logan doesn't bring up the frustration (and may have not fully realized it was frustration), there is no true reconciliation from Roman about what he said that upset Logan, nor from Logan about his harmful actions towards Roman.

This is a more common occurrence than one might come to expect, though, as Logan is either unwilling to or deems it unnecessary to address what causes his outbursts. And that's because anger doesn't just bubble out of nothing, especially not for him.

Anger serves the purpose of notifying others of when they've crossed a boundary, getting them to stop or change their behavior, and standing up for what someone believes in or standing against something they don't.

So, fast-forward to Putting Others First, and the scene where Logan is asked to provide information from a "real philosopher" to support what Patton was trying to explain, only for Patton to hit "Skip All" and effectively remove Logan from the discussion.

This is something far beyond having your methods labeled "stupid" in an argument, as Patton had asked for his help and then when that help was provided, Patton didn't like it. But instead of saying as much (instead of beating around the bush about it), he quickly took advantage of Janus' trick to 'skip' over Logan's dialogue. We are shown that Logan is then removed from the scene entirely, and there is no response to this action. They simply move on in their discussion as though it meant nothing.

Later, when Logan (the actual Logan) resurfaces, he does something he has never done before.

He expresses his frustration with the situation.

Well, I mean, he did technically admit once to being frustrated back in Moving On (Part 1), but that was only because everyone was also frustrated and he never mentioned anything about it beyond that. But in this particular instance in Putting Others First, he actually expresses himself in regards to his frustration.

He says it in a very passive-aggressive tone, stating "Not that any of you care, but I am unharmed. And I don't want to talk about it. I'm just here to deliver one last fact, and then I will do you all a favor and spare you my company."

This remark is full of anger, as anyone can see, but it's very interesting if we break it down and look deeper at each individual part.

First, he's addressing the other sides and Thomas' failure to respond to the action (wrongdoing) made against him by Patton (and Janus) earlier. He specifically says "not that any of you care," which is a very emotionally-charged thing to say for someone who prefers to stick to facts and stay objective.

He is assuming that they do not care, which could have easily been inferred by their lack of reaction and failure to respond to the action made against him. But even if it was true that they didn't care, Logan would have no way to know that this is absolutely true. (Note: I think they probably did care, even if they didn't show it, but they were all caught up in Thomas' problem and what Patton had to say about it that they pushed any concern for Logan down to a very low priority in that moment.) But he is stating this as though it is a fact.

This is odd because, as we've seen throughout the series, Logan doesn't often pick up on mood shifts and appropriate responses within conversation - his EQ (emotional quotient) is rather low, meaning he is prone to not always recognizing or understanding emotions (both his own or others'), not always picking up on body language or sarcasm or changes in tone, and not always knowing how to communicate effectively in certain situations.

However, there is one thing he seems to do when he's frustrated or annoyed that we've seen in multiple episodes, which is that he states what he thinks very bluntly. Now, this can be difficult to pick up on as Logan tends to speak very bluntly and concisely at all times, but the distinction to look for is the underlying emotion that is present in specific moments.

Take, for example, his part in the Incomplete song from Learning New Things About Ourselves, after Thomas says, "Actually, that was for your benefit," and Logan responds, rather bluntly, "I don't see how that can be relevant." While this was rude within its context, he is mostly just speaking bluntly. He is saying outright that he doesn't understand why this has anything to do with the discussion they were having. However, he is frustrated because he thinks the song is a waste of time, and he wants to say this objectively and resolutely, but he is angry and that anger coats his words, whether intentional or not. As such, his comment about relevance doesn't sound like someone who's confused, it sounds like someone who thinks they know better and is rudely telling them off for doing something wrong (and that's how tone change works!).

And because his words are perceived as rude and undermining, everyone around him reacts emotionally, which Logan then responds to with emotion, as well. His anger becomes more prevalent as he goes head-to-head with Thomas, purposefully pinpointing Thomas' negligence and desire to distract himself from the actual issue (because that's what he thinks all this singing and puppets really is - another distraction from the work that needs to be done). It's not until later, when he realizes this was a creative way to work through the problem for Thomas and was not actually a distraction, that he releases the frustration and tension he had throughout most of the episode, where he then continues to speak bluntly but without that underlying emotion tinting it.

Back to Putting Others First, his remark that the others do not care is steeped in this same emotion (but far more intensely), and while his words may seem blunt because of how he's speaking, they are not blunt at all - they're actually very sharp!

He is purposefully targeting them emotionally by saying "not that any of you care" and leaving no room for argument. He is stating it as if it were a fact, and likely knows that this will hurt them emotionally, to possibly give them pause to reflect on their own actions (or lack thereof) and feel regret. It's a form of retribution, something that anger is all about.

He wants them to feel how he felt.

In essence, this is a counter attack, a strike in return for the strike he received.

Moving on, he states that he is unharmed. Again, he is stating this as a fact, likely because it is a fact - physically, at least. But why mention it?

He is, again, poking at their emotions, by bringing forward their disregard to his safety due to their actions (or lack thereof). By saying "I am unharmed," what he means is "I could have been." And with the precursor of "not that any of you care," he is implying that they wouldn't care if he was actually hurt, and stating it altogether as though he knows it's a fact. Again, this is a phrase built for retribution, it's meant to invoke an emotional response from the others, to bother them and make them regret what they've done (which seemed to work, given their reactions).

What's a little odd is that, if this was only about any kind of physical harm, the others should be able to easily recall Logan stating he (as a metaphysical being) could not be physically harmed back in Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts when he endured multiple 'attacks' from Remus. He showed that these have no real-world impact and kept very calm and unbothered throughout them all to prove to Thomas that things would be okay and not to be scared.

So if they remembered Logan couldn't be physically harmed, they would have no reason to worry if he was okay after what happened. But Logan knows how much they did worry back in Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts, so much so that he had to show them multiple times that he was perfectly fine.

So, given that Logan was angry in this moment and wanted to provoke an emotional response, this just adds to the fodder. He wanted them to think about if he had gotten hurt and how he believed they wouldn't care if that happened. He wanted them to feel bad for not caring about him, regardless of whether it was even possible for him to get hurt in the first place.

We'll not get into emotional harm here, as Logan wouldn't have admitted to it if that was the case, and while it has definitely had an emotional impact on him, he clearly didn't want to address that, which is why he didn't clarify the type of harm in his statement.

After this, he states "and I don't want to talk about it." Again, this is probably actually true, as he is speaking about himself and what he wants, and he would know with certainty if that is true or not.

But here's the thing - when was the last time Logan has expressed what he wants? It's been a very long time, so I actually went ahead and rewatched old episodes to find this out. There are only 4 instances where he mentioned wanting or not wanting something throughout the series, the most recent being Learning New Things About Ourselves wherein he inferred that he didn't want to be seen as a joke because he needed to be taken seriously in order to do his job. The only instance where he has actually stated blatantly that he "wants" anything was in Accepting Anxiety (Part 1) when Thomas asked him if he wanted the other sides to weigh in on the issue, and Logan said that he did want that.

But, regardless, my point here is that this isn't really something Logan typically does. In this moment in Putting Others First, however, this is very significant, and the reason is because what Logan is doing here with this statement is establishing a boundary.

He is stating, resolutely, that he doesn't want to talk about his situation. He's expressed that he believes the others don't care about him and he's leaving it at that, with no room for their excuses, and then making it clear he wants everyone to move on with the discussion and not talk to him about it.

It's easy to think this may be untrue, that he does want to talk about it but that it's maybe 'too fresh a wound' to be comfortable doing so right now, but Logan is the type to be upfront and speak honestly. If he was bothered and wanted to discuss this later, he would have said that, even while angry. But what he stated instead was that he did not want to talk about it, establishing a clear and concise boundary, meaning the others should listen to that and respect it.

(This is also why Logan raises his voice afterward when Patton tries to placate him, which he just outright stated he did not want them to do.)

But like I mentioned already, this is one of the only times Logan has ever established a boundary for himself. He is someone who tends to find ways to adapt for the benefit of Thomas and the other sides, and this leaves him very open for making mistakes, experiencing failure, and enduring ridicule. And yet, through all this, he doesn't often state what he wants. He has, on many occasions, mentioned his suggestions for Thomas to improve himself, but he doesn't tell Thomas or the other sides that they need to adapt for him. He makes suggestions if there may be a benefit to Thomas (ex. telling Virgil and Patton to back off a bit in Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts), but he does not expect anyone to cater to his wants at all, which is why he is so surprised when he gets something he likes (ex. 12 Days of Christmas, Crofters The Musical).

The point I'm getting at here is that Logan doesn't really establish boundaries, either because he's learned his won't be respected or because he knows he needs to adapt for the sake of others and placing rigid rules can keep him from adapting as flexibly as may be required to do his job.

A weird example off the top of my head here to better explain this, but if he established a boundary that he didn't want, let's say, cookies to be eaten during discussions he has with others, he may recognize there could be some sort of convention to eating as a multitasking behavior to keep Thomas focused, or that he needs to placate Patton or the others to maintain their interest in a particular topic, or maybe he will learn that they learn better through a reward system and thus will have to pull back this boundary because he's seen that the pros outweigh the cons, no matter his reason for establishing the boundary in the first place.

It makes sense he doesn't want to waste time putting some rigid rule in place if he thinks it may need to be changed later in order to do his job, and especially if the other sides won't respect it anyway.

This is why we should fully believe that he means what he says about not wanting "to talk about it" and that Thomas and the other sides need to respect the boundary he just established.

Alright, moving on. Next, Logan explains that he only returned to give one last fact before he will be taking his leave again. This is less emotionally-charged than the rest of the statement, but there is still emotion there. He's telling them that he only came back to teach Thomas something here, so he is both saying he doesn't want to be around them but also that his priority here is his function and use to Thomas, not the other sides. If he didn't have anything useful to say, he likely would have never shown back up at all. Thankfully, though, he did, as it gave him a chance to express his anger, even though he's clearly holding a lot of it back.

But it's important to note here that Logan is playing in to part of the problem he's having, by only appearing in the discussion to fulfill his role and nothing more. He has come to recognize, especially due to events of this episode, that he is only needed to provide information to Thomas, and that (apparently) even that has its limits. Based on their words and actions, Logan believes the other sides do not want him to be included in the discussion. This was probably already the case long before this episode, given that he chose to use a less "invasive" method for his participation, only to be told immediately by Roman that he was unsuccessful in this. Logan would not have been making efforts to exclude his presence unless he knew it was something the other sides wanted. He doesn't decide things on a whim, he would have to have come to the conclusion that this was the best approach.

I specify "the other sides" here, by the way, because I don't know how true it is of each individual side or about Thomas' view on this, and I'm sure Logan isn't fully certain about that, either. Unfortunately, due to the events of Putting Others First, Logan may be more inclined to believe Thomas doesn't want him there, but there may still be hope that Thomas does.

So, Logan is playing into his role with this part of his statement, both indicating that this is what he thinks the others want of him (to be absent from the discussion) and that he may believe this is all he can properly provide to them at this point. And what I mean by that is that Logan may believe the others are right to not want him around, or that he may only be useful if he is limited to serving his function to Thomas and nothing more. This isn't true, of course, but if a situation is presented with the same conclusion over and over again, you're more likely to believe that that conclusion will always remain the same. It's understandable if Logan has come to believe this may be true, even if he hopes it's not.

On that sad note, we get to the last part of Logan's statement, which is possibly the part with the most emotion, though that emotion is less anger and more sadness.

He finishes his statement by saying, "and then I will do you all a favor and spare you my company."

There's...a lot here. Like I stated just before this, Logan believes the other sides do not want him around. And while, at face value, this sentence indicates that by leaving, he is doing what they want - in reality, that isn't the full story. Because this part is said with that underlying emotion - two of them, actually - anger and sadness.

The anger is directed at them and the wrongdoing that was committed against Logan, but the sadness is more directed at what Logan sees to be the likely truth. He is angry that the other sides dismiss him and don't want him there, but he is also saddened by this, especially because he thinks it must be a fact.

Hope is hard to have in the face of knowledge, after all. I may want to believe the sky is orange, but there's a hell of a lot of proof that it's blue, you know?

Positive thinking only gets you so far, and at some point, you just have to face the facts and try to keep moving forward despite the negativity of the truth. And that's what Logan has been doing, he's lost that hope that maybe there is some silver lining to how he's been treated, that maybe if he adapts enough then he'll finally be accepted, but this episode, this moment, must have been one of the absolute last straws for him, as he is certain of this truth now.

If anything, he can put that positive thinking to use for their benefit instead, and also be passive-aggressive again. This is why he says "I'll do you all a favor" in reference to him leaving. It's not just what they want, it's his gift to them. A big, shitty gift, one that hurt him a lot, but this is what they wanted, right? And shoving that in their faces, again, serves to enact that same retribution as before. He wants them to know he's been hurt and wants them to feel bad for what they've done. The only difference this time is that he's not just angry, he's sad because he knows it won't change anything.

Lastly, I want to note that he specifically refers to his presence as "my company" which I found kind of interesting. It's just a synonym, sure, but 'company' is usually used to infer companionship, that it's time spent with someone who you like to have around or someone who complements or matches you.

So for him to specifically use the phrase "spare you my company," he is either saying 1 of 2 things here - either 1) that he still sees them all as equals, but that he recognizes they cannot be companions with him by definition because they don't want to spend time with him, or 2) that he no longer wants to be considered companions because they do not want him around and that he wants this connection severed.

Overall, it seems this statement from Logan is embedded with emotion, namely anger, and he said it with the intent of causing an emotional reaction from the others. He expressed his frustration.

Now, it'll only be a matter of whether this is ever addressed in the next episode (one that's not an Asides) and if anyone bothers to reflect on or change their behavior regarding it to see its true effect on Logan.

One last thing I'd like to note:

Decisions made of anger are often impulsive and not well thought-out, they are driven by emotion and the need to feel vindicated. This can often evoke regret, the feeling that you made the wrong decision after having the benefit of hindsight.

It is completely possible that Logan may retract the statement he made in this episode. He may review it later and realize he was too emotional, and since he wants to be seen as serious and someone who makes objective decisions, he may regret his decision to speak in the way he did.

He may decide that establishing a boundary could hinder his ability to continue adapting to Thomas' needs and may wish to retract his statement to prevent this becoming a problem, but I doubt he would need to as Logan's personal concerns are very rarely brought into any discussion.

And he may still have hope that some of what he treated as fact was not actually true, and that the other sides do care or that he perhaps has another chance to change himself for their betterment.

That being said, he may come to regret this decision but may stick by it, either out of spite or failure to receive the retribution he desired. He might have come to believe much of what he said was factual and saw no need to counter it, or still has the barest hope that things can improve if he just keeps trying.

In the end, my hope is that this moment is given more meaning in the future, even if it's not addressed right away in the next episode. I would prefer Logan either finally stand up for himself and deal with the potential discord that comes from it, or that the others attempt to reflect on their behavior towards him and begin to change their ways. Obviously, Logan also has some work to do in that regard, but it would ultimately do him some good to speak his mind and genuinely express himself more often.

#sanders sides #logan angst #sanders sides analysis #logan sanders #ts logan #long post #orbs thought bubbles #might make this more palatable with gifs later #god it's so damn long I'm so sorry

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pencilpat · 1 month

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ROMAN HEADCANONS GO

ON IT BOSS o7

(This post is typed up by Noah & Patton)

Roman, what a wonderful character that seems to never stop being put through pain

My first and absolutely strongest headcanon is that Roman has HPD (histrionic personality disorder). My system has HPD and Roman is incredibly relatable in the fact that he shows the symptoms of it greatly. Stereotypically dramatic and theatrical, constantly seeking positive attention and approval but being destroyed and devastated by negative attention. His emotions are shallow and willing to change to please anyone around him, which made him very easy for Janus and Patton to manipulate. He's flirtatious and charming, loves to be the focus of people's attention, and he dresses quite dramatically to boot.

I've mentioned before our headcanon of Roman being physically warm like a heated blanket and glowing faintly like a mythical creature. That one will always be dear to us.

Roman has redish hair compared to the other sides, just a glimmer of auburn in the sunlight! He also has naturally very blushy skin so he overall seems more 'red' than the others in appearance.

I think Roman and Logan genuinely have a lot in common and they are both always shocked about it, but they are the sides that spend the most time together lately. Creating and writing and reading poetry and learning languages and sharing their favourite novels, they just have so much to share!

Roman is a good cook, not baking though, he wouldn't bake to save his life. Cooking is so fun because you can honestly be as creative as you want and still come out with something delicious. Baking though, that's science (eww, he would say) and it's so precise that it stresses him out.

Roman and Janus were briefly romantically involved, but it was almost entirely Janus trying to manipulate his way into Thomas's good graces through being 'trusted' by Roman. A lot of faux flattery and "appeals to his massive ego." Janus simply stopped coming to see him just prior to Selflessness vs Selfishness Redux after realising his plan wasn't working out, and left Roman to cope with the sudden abandonment from both him and then the perceived abandonment from Patton right after all on his own. Janus has yet to apologize for it either. Roman is quite understandably incredibly hurt and bitter.

That's all that is on my mind right now, but if I think of more later I'll edit it in!

#roman sanders #sanders sides

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lovelylogans · 1 year

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episode bowl 2023

#episode bowl 2023

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theimprobabledreamersworld · 2 years

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TW for eyestrain and bright colours!

It's the anniversary of Sanders Sides today! Aaaaand because life has been manic, I haven't prepped anything new... 😂

Sooo, I've collated all of the litographs I've made based on whole episode scripts and put them together... It's not every episode, but here are my favourites 😊 I completely forgot about a few of these, and some are from the beginning of my time making litographs so it's really cool seeing how they've developed over the last couple of years 😄

Hope you enjoying looking at this little trip down memory lane with me! 💙

The Dark Side of Disney