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#atla fandom racism
dukeofdelirium · 10 days
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was looking on ao3 for some kataang fics and saw yet another zvtara fic in our tag and clicked on it because I’m a hater first and foremost but my god…
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LMAO
nah… the way they project this idea that Aang views Katara as a machine to repopulate the airbenders when not once did he or will he ever act that way canonically. holy shit I just??? where the actual fuck does this concept even come from? they want Katara to be his abuse victim sooooooo bad 😂
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and what the cinnamon toast fuck is this passage in particular?
“Should he not sacrifice as well?”
ummmmm…. I hate to break it to you fic author, but Aang literally did sacrifice. he legitimately lost everything there is to fucking lose. he even lost the clothes off his back and the only artifact that his people made specifically for him. he fucking burned it at the bottom of a volcano. or did you forget? actually nvm, you probably never watched in the first place so of course you wouldn’t know.
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like ppl can write whatever they want idc, but acting like Aang, a character who is a sole survivor of fucking genocide never LOST or suffered or sacrificed anything? be so fucking serious rn. get out of my damn face. like you can fuckin ship your ship without committing the most egregious and genuinely offensive character assassination possible
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theotterpenguin · 5 days
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I really like the nuanced take about Zutara and why it makes some people uncomfortable and I can see both sides of it. I ship Zutara now but at first I didn’t and it made me really uncomfortable but I think it was just because of certain fan content I was coming across. Some people do portray Zutara in an extremely fetishized & creepy Stockholm syndrome way that makes Katara come off like some helpless damsel stereotype. It made me feel really gross thinking about as a young WOC but rewatching the show and seeing the true dynamic of these characters made me fall in love with them again. So I guess my feeling is that in canon i really love the dynamic but I hate the way *certain fans* twist it and refuse to acknowledge the racism & misogyny in what they’re doing
this is a complicated topic with many layers to it but first - i am sorry if you have ever felt unwelcome in the zutara fandom due to experiences with racism/misogyny.
it would be ignorant to claim that the zutara fandom is somehow uniquely unaffected by systemic racism or sexism, but it would also be disingenuous to claim that these issues only exist in certain parts of the atla fandom. racism, sexism, and general bigotry exist in every fandom due to institutionalized inequality in social structures. and to make it clear, i'm not directing this criticism towards you, anon, you are entitled to your own personal experiences, but i have seen a broader trend of people attempting to use fandom racism to moralize their position in ship wars, which is diminishing from the actual problem - the focus should be on acknowledging the existence of fandom racism/sexism, combatting implicit biases, and creating spaces that can uplift marginalized voices, rather than focusing only on optics in an attempt to gain moral high ground in a silly *fictional* ship war.
however, given all this, the reason that i am still in the zutara fandom is because i appreciate how many people in the fandom are dedicated to unpacking issues of racism and sexism and cultural insensitivity in atla's source material, which i personally haven't seen in many other sides of the fandom (that often sanitize what actually happened in the text to avoid acknowledging these issues in their favorite show). of course this is a broad generalization, but that's generally why i stick with the non-canon shipping side of the fandom because fans that are willing to stray away from canon are often less afraid to engage in critical analysis.
i also do think the zutara fandom has come a long way from the early 2000s when the show first aired. for example, when i first joined the fandom i had mixed feelings on fire lady katara, but i have since read some fanfics that have done an excellent job deconstructing some of the problematic ways that this trope could be interpreted and balancing respect for katara's cultural heritage and autonomy with the political and personal difficulties of being involved with an imperialist/colonialist nation. the fire lady katara trope, capture!fic, and other complicated topics/tropes are almost never inherently racist/sexist, but rather, their execution is what matters. and all this is not to say that issues of systemic racism/sexism do not still exist in this fandom, but it personally has not significantly negatively impacted my experience in the zutara fandom due to the wonderful content that so many other fantastic people produce, though everyone's mileage may differ with what they are comfortable with. anon, i hope that you are able to find a place in the zutara fandom for you! but i also know many people that have stepped back from other fandoms due to experiences with racism/misogyny, so i understand that decision as well.
on a final note, i think it's important to acknowledge that fandom doesn't exist in a vacuum and broader issues of racism and sexism are rooted in the media, the entertainment industry, and mainstream societal norms. while i do sometimes focus on fandom dynamics/discourse in my criticisms, i think it is equally as important to acknowledge how issues of prejudice and inequality are perpetuated through larger social structures, which is why it frustrates me when the atla fandom refuses to acknowledge the flaws of the original show, which has far more influence and social power over the general public than discourse over fandom tropes ever will. personally, i don't understand the phenomenon of holding fan-made material to a higher standard than mainstream media.
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https://www.tumblr.com/burst-of-iridescent/740787422094376960/i-love-how-aangs-fans-want-so-badly-to-defend-and
Your thoughts?
Let's go through it by parts
"Aang is a monk, he shouldn't date/get married/have kids"
Aang is the LAST airbender. The LAST air-nomad. Even if he had made some vow of celibacy/not having kids/not getting married (which was never confirmed or even hinted at by the show), he made it under the assumption that this would affect solely his life, not result in the death of his entire culture once he passed away.
Much like he was given a pass to kill Ozai, he would also be given a pass to break his celibacy vow - which the show never says he made in the first place.
"The Air-nomads are not one to one with Tibetan monks, it makes no sense to get hung up on the pacism"
They are not one-to-one, much the other nations. But the Water Tribes are still indigenous people living in the poles, the Earth Kingdom is known for a great wall and there's a "made in Earth Kingdom joke", the Fire Nation has sun imagery everywhere, and air nomads are even meant to visually resemble tibetan monks.
More importantly, the show made sure to highlight that, to the nomads, pacifism IS a big part of their culture and belief system, and that Aang feels very conflicted over wanting to save the world but not liking the way he's expected to just disregard everything he was taught his whole life.
Comparing "Aang is a (tibetan) monk, therefore he is a pacifist so killing would be against his beliefs" to "Aang is a (tibetan) monk, therefore he shouldn't be dating" is absurd because, yes, Avatar did choose what parts of tibetan culture would be carried over to the story, and only ONE of these made the cut.
When people complay about "People are disgarding the fact that Aang was raised to be a pacifist when they expect him to just be cool with killing Ozai" they are not saying that because "Well, a tibetan monk wouldn't do that", they are saying it because CANONICALLY, Aang's air-nomad culture would be against it.
"Being critical of the air-nomad culture is not the same as disrespecting Tibet's culture"
This one is only truth depending on the circumstance.
Obviously being critical of something the air-nomads do, but the tibetan monks don't, is not racist against real people, nor is it racist in the first place if the criticism isn't fully based on "That's not how MY culture does things, therefore it's bad."
Being critical of something both air-nomads and real life tibetan monks do is automatically being critical of both, though obviously there's a difference between "I don't agree with this belief" and "I hate this entire group of people" (for exemple, saying "I hate the Fire Nation's imperialism because of all the suffering it caused, which was clearly inspired by Japan's imperialistic past that was also attrocious" is very different from saying "I hate japanese people").
Being "critical" of something both air-nomads and real life tibetan monks do because you're going out of your way to misrespresent their beliefs, and you talk about the air-nomads the way people who are prejudiced against Tibetan culture talk about them (which a lot of people in this fandom do without even realizing) IS very fucking racist against a real life group of people.
Again, to make the distinction clear, there's a difference between "I dislike this character who happens to be black" or even "I dislike this black character because the writers were racist, intentionally or accidentally, and thus made him an objectively poorly written character that I don't like seeing on screen" and "I hate this character because he is (insert racist belief against black people here)."
So yeah, A LOT of the hate towards Aang, especifically regarding his pacifism, comes from people being genuinely racist, and pointing that out is not absurd just because "Well, he technically isn't a Tibetan monk. He just looks like one, has plenty of the beliefs and traditions of one, the narrative largely treats him as one, and the audience is clearly excected to see him as such."
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akiizayoi4869 · 1 year
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Something that bothers me about this fandom is when people say that we shouldn't ship Sokka and Katara with Zuko and Azula because colonizers and the Fire Nation tried to colonize the water tribes and wipe them out. Here's the thing. It wasn't just the water tribes. The Fire Nation attacked the Earth Kingdom too. They completely wiped out the air nomads as well. And yet I don't see anyone having any issue with Zukaang, Jinko or Jetko. So why is it only a problem when it's Zutara, Zukka, Azutara, and Sokkla?
Also? You do realize that by saying this, you're pretty much saying that white people and black people shouldn't be together. That pretty much anyone who is white should not be together with a person of color, because of the history of colonialism. You're saying that people of color should not look for love outside of our own race because of the history that is there. Do you know what we call that way of thinking? Racism. And I will tell you why. Because you are saying that interracial relationships are a problem and should not exist. And for someone like me, who is from the United States of America, where interracial marriage is still looked down upon in some states, and the Republicans have tried to get rid of it before? As someone who is black and indeginous, as someone who had a grandmother who was half white? I take offense to that. Because you are being racist.
I'm also going to say this, and I'm sorry if it sounds racist but it's the truth and it needs to get called out: this kind of thinking is usually by white people who see it as some kind of gotcha moment and think that they are combating racism by saying stuff like this. Man, do I have some news for you. You aren't helping anything. You are still actively a part of the problem because you are still being racist. Not to say that it's only white people, because I've seen people who aren't white say the exact same thing. And it's nonsense. Why are we condemning people who have nothing to do with what their ancestors did? By that logic, I shouldn't be best friends with a boy I met in my freshmen year of high school, who is white and from Greece. Because people who look just like him enslaved my people centuries ago, treated them like garbage, hunted us down like we were animals, etc. But guess what? That has nothing to do with him.
Lastly, people who are from different cultural backgrounds getting together should be seen as a sign of hope, a sign that we can learn to co exist with one another and live in peace with each other. It should be seen as a step forward to a better future. It should not be seen as a bad thing. If two people from different backgrounds want to be together? That's on them. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. And if it bothers you that much, that's a problem that YOU have and that you need to look at and sort out. Don't make it everyone else's problem.
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hello-nichya-here · 9 months
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Those zutara headcanons were awful but saying that race mixing is the same as eugenics is terrible too Nichya
The take was: Zuko NEEDS to marry someone of a different RACE to "cleanse" the EVIL GENES that made his family disproportionately likely to commit attrocities, and Katara will teach her son bloodbending to use on his sister if she ever starts demonstrating any "Azula-ness".
In case you somehow still don't see a problem with that, let me tell you a little bit about my country's history.
The descendents of europeans (mainly from Portugal) that were living in Brazil after our independence and a few decades of us being a "republic" (dictatorship) were unhappy with the fact that all the indigenous tribes and descendents of slaves were still around. This frustration grew as people from other nations (mainly China and especially Japan) moved into the country as well.
The white brazilian-portuguese people were in the minority. They very much did not like that and wanted to fix that "problem". How? Well, the country NEEDED those big numbers otherwise it'd be impossible to for a nation that big to function, so kicking everybody was obviously a bad idea.
The Brazilian Academy of EUGENICS then decided that the only logical thing to do was for white people to be allowed to marry and have kids with people of these other races - provided their partners were "one of the good ones", and not affected by the "bad genes" that had made their relatives "naturally predisposed" to violence, comminting crimes, and immoral behaviours in general.
The "logic" was that a mixed-raced nation wasn't GOOD, but it would EVENTUALLY become 100% white after enough of the "good ones" were picked out, and the rest of those races were kept out of sight, out of mind, and "reminded of their place" (violently, of course) if they ever steped out.
Racism and eugenics don't always happen in "We shouldn't even have LOOK at someone of a different race or even know that they exist, let's kick them out/kill them all" way. Sometimes it happens through being condescending,forcing them to assimilate, and "re-educating" the "good savages" that are not that "evolved" but are not as bad as "their kind." Hell, killing all the men and raping all the women to get them pregnant is a recurring thing in race-wars.
It doesn't matter that that incredibly irresponsible person technically only mentioned Zuko's direct family as the "evil ones", or that the Fire Nation did oppress the Water Tribes - by making it all about their "defective genes" that could only ever be fixed by "one of the good ones" having kids with someone of a different (aka "better") race, it IS racism, it IS disgusting, and it 100% IS EUGENICS.
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survivalove · 6 months
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the dumbest thing i’ve ever seen is zks calling aang racist for telling katara not to get revenge because he’s “forcing his culture on her”
(because sokka the famous pacifist is an air nomad like him right?)
is katara giving aang advice throughout the entire series her being a racist and “forcing her culture on him” now?
and then comparing that to “air temple preschool” coming from the prince of the nation that wiped out his people who was actively taught to be racist his whole life…
yeah this fandom is tapped like wtf do you people find yourselves saying in the name of defending the mid redemption arc of a racist?
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jyndor · 2 months
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atla fans can be pretty orientalist ngl like TEXTBOOK orientalist.
like okay I know I know the original show is so good but it isn't perfect and there is PLENTY of room for improvement. plenty. we all knew this at the time, back when it was airing and then there was that long break between books 2 and 3. like we all knew it was great but also had its problems. idk why fans from the original run act like this show is perfect.
one of the biggest problems has always been how white the writers room was. how the creators, especially bryke, were profiting by selling the aesthetics of various asian and indigenous peoples to a us american audience.
this is how you get the borderline weird anti-indigenous focus on sexism and misogyny in the water tribes without much exploration of how sexism and misogyny impacted other groups. like actually I'm GLAD that it's toned down but still present in the live action show because sokka was mostly around women and girls for a lot of his teen years. why would HE be so over the top sexist? like in comparison with anyone else, it makes no sense. unless of course you think about it through the lens of how white colonizers tend to think of indigenous peoples - backwards.
I think it's interesting that this show is mostly being worked on by Asian and indigenous people and so many fans never even wanted to give it a chance. I know, I know- I remember the film too. but from the jump, fans have been so quick to dismiss EVERY little detail* or leak without even seeing it first.
bryke are a big part of the story, I know. but they are not all of the people who were behind it. it seems to me that a lot of the fans of this show are weirdly protective of these two white guys who decided to part from the show. they weren't forced out, they left. and yes I'm biased because I saw just how shitty they treated fans of zutara (largely girls and VERY, VERY diverse) at literal conventions, how they egged on some toxic bullying from other parts of the fanbase to the point that frankly it's never really worth engaging in non-zutara fan spaces because people are so reactive and weird about even the mention of zutara. and then these same assholes will make comparisons to reylos as if zutara fans EVER harassed poc fans and especially actors. but whatever, that's my bias. but I can respect that they also created this amazing show that I've loved for half of my life.
I still see it as a good thing that the people working on this show come from the cultures bryke and nickelodeon profited off of without giving anything back.
so I guess my question to white fans is this: if you haven't watched yet because you are mad about bryke or some of the changes you've heard about or whatever, why do you not trust people from the cultures atla draws upon to adapt this story? are you just here to consume exotic aesthetics? why are bryke the only people who can sell those aesthetics to you?
*btw I'm not talking about the sokka casting shit, that's different and should be criticized. Also Albert Kim was the showrunner of Sleepy Hollow and was complicit in racist treatment of Nicole Beharie so he is not someone I trust very much. also there are definitely critiques I have of the show but it's not bad, not even remotely. it's worth watching.
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gritsandbrits · 1 year
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Thing I notice in fandoms is how nonwhite kids are often held to even higher standards or unfairly demonized for existing.
Let's start with Avatar cuz y'all no white ppl don't exist in that universe but it's worth mentioning. In fandom Katara is often made the butt of a joke; in the comics Azula was written HORRIBLY.
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I see it in TGAMM. Like Andrea, Ollie also came out of a toxic household yet fans put him down for "getting in the way of ships" even going far as to claim he and Molly are siblings (despite them coming from entirely different families and ethnicities). Even after Ollie is changing fans won't give him a chance.
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In HSMfandom people claim Sharpay was the real victim & Gabriella was the bad guy who mopes and whines all day, ignoring that Sharpay tried to steal Troy away (who she didn't even really like, she liked Zeke more). She forced the entire crew to work on a night of a big performance, and was essentially a bully all 3 movies. Yet SOMEHOW stans blame Gabbi. She was the one who actually had her priorities straight and refused to play Sharpay's mind games. Yet Sharpay gets excused bc she's pretty and pink and owns it. Yes media and society demonizes girliness, but Sharpay was toxic as hell and needed a few harsh lessons. Gabbi was the victim. It's spelled out in the text..
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Even in Amphibia there's a small section of fans who has Marcy and claim she's a manipulative liar. Not showing compassion for her when her actions came out emotional distress and she had to face the consequences. Sounds familiar?
In Descendants Uma and Audrey get the brunt of hate when they were victimized by Mal at some point, yet aren't given the same empathy even in canon. There's other posts that talk about this unfair treatment (as well as the double standards between Mal and Ben).
And trust me this isn't the first nor last time kids of color are unfairly castigated in favor of the "better" white kids. And not just race; religion, gender, class, disability mental illness etc, all of those also major factors in how fandom and canon perceive and write certain child characters.
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autistic-katara · 5 months
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FUCK I TNINK MY STR*NGER TH*NGD HYPERFIXATION IS COMING BACK U STUPICBWHORE U EERENT SUPPOSED TO RO THAT UNTIL 2025 (or at least until the fandom got a little better)
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raayllum · 6 months
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will also say that i've been in fandoms on the other side of the "popular fanon characterization of ur fave is so ooc" frustration so it is always a struggle that has my sympathies, but 1) sometimes popular fandom opinion isn't wrong and 2) even if it is wrong, so what? people are still gonna have it. i can't control 'em. they can't control me. i made an easily blacklistable tag, i acknowledge it's my opinion (and when canon aligns with it, which i'm allowed to do), and it accordingly informs my interpretations - which may & can be & at this point just are fundamentally different than your own and have been for quite some time. my job is done. your annoyance is not my problem and your annoyance is not my fault
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umbralwaves · 6 months
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the ATLA fandom is the most racist one I have ever encountered and it needs to be acknowledged for the monstrosity it is.
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avatarfandompolice · 1 year
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Sorry but making every character in your ATLA/LOK fan art have as dark of skin as possible doesn’t make you more “racially accurate.” It really only speaks to your inability to understand that different races can have variation between skin colors, and specifically Asian/Inuit people are not one homogenous skin color.
No, the show did not “screw up the skin colors” because you blindly think “dark skin = better” instead of understanding the nuance of racial representation. There are plenty of characters within ATLA and LOK that represent all different cultures and physical traits of the races they are representing IRL.
Also if you think mixed kids all look like a perfect combo of their mother and father, go outside. All this stuff speaks 0% towards the show being racist and 100% towards YOU being racist.
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Aang and Marinette (Ladybug) are the worst Asian (I refuse to say "poc". it is insulting) characters. The creators are horrible with the main ship. They say if you don't shipp these ships then you are terrible. In Ladybug's case it's said almost explicitly both in the show and by the creator on Twitter. The creator also forbids loving another female character which is misogyny.
x
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aero-sense · 5 months
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Like yall really want to bat for the FN that badly huh. Like yall literally invented reverse Fire Nation racism because you can't stand your imperialist faves not being coddled for one sec. "who will be concerned about the fire nations rights after the war 🥺" I dunno, they have majority of the power and money in the world, I think they'll find ways to "defend their rights".
"Oh but no one cares about them :(..." the comics literally painted Zuko the good guy for defending the colonizers right to stay, with EK people firmly established as second class citizens. The mayor literally defended Ozai saying he looked out for them, which is lol, false and a bad look for the everybody in the room, but the comics still treats the mayor as a good guy because he had a mixed baby. I guess the FN colonizing the Earth Kingdom's women is... good lololol. (hey whats worse guys, if his wife and child have special privileges in their caste system because he rules the colony or that they're still second class citizens?)
Anyway the FN is literally not a vulnerable population? Compared to the other nations they've made into vulnerable or outright exterminated. dont worry, people condemning them for their crimes doesn't mean they'll actually pay their weight in justice, just like in real world <3
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hello-nichya-here · 2 years
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I don’t know how to explain to Zutarians and some Kataang fans that I have seen, that neither Zuko nor Aang are white americans/europeans - usually americans (big shock, I know 🙄 ).
You’d think that’d be pretty obvious considering that the story is set in a pan-asian world, Katara and Aang bond over surviving literal genocide, the airbenders are clearly inspired by Tibet, and the Fire Nation clearly takes inspiration from Japan (and China, to a lesser extend).
Yet it isn’t hard to find Zutara people claiming Aang is “basically white”, and fans of BOTH ships acting like Zuko is the same as any european or american from “da past”, and either using it as way to bash the ship or to make things like a Pocahontas AU (seriously) when he does the most “asian” thing western media can conceive of: worrying about his honor above all else.
Interracial relationships don’t always include white people. Racial minorities can be just as racist as the freaking KKK - again, just look at the inspiration for the Fire Nation, Japan, and what they did to the non-japanese at MANY points of their history, including siding with Hitler.
And come on, while the story was inspired by some real life shit, the characters are, in fact not real, and live in a world where people can bend the elements - can we please not pretend that a freaking ship war is in any comparable to the oppression of real people? CAN WE? 
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survivalove · 8 months
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​the way the atla fandom mocks buddhism constantly I see why this is their fave character. I can’t believe people let this slide even worse defend it and say it’s funny. just a weird bunch
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