Why C3E51 worked so well (a DM’s perspective)
I have seen a lot of absolutely bananas critiques of C3E51 (thankfully not nearly as many around here, far more on Reddit, which I should not have visited). And the ongoing theme of those critiques is that Matt should not have imperiled former PCs, and if he brought them in should have either done lengthy side-bars with those characters or let them win the fight against Ludinis and have a chance to take him out themselves, since they’re ‘god tier’ or ‘high level’ and that makes ‘logical sense’. What these critiques really boil down to, IMO, are people who were really invested in the former campaigns upset that their faves didn’t get to do cool things, treating it more like a TV show than a game. But even as a TV show, that would have been disappointing from a narrative perspective. Because even in a TV show, this is a sequel spin-off show, starring new characters. The story is about THEM. And more importantly, the game is about the players and about telling their story.
So let’s break this down from a DM perspective. How do you build a Kobiashi Maru situation for your characters? For those of you who aren’t familiar, the Kobiashi Maru is a Star Trek term for a scenario designed from the jump to be unwinnable (Kirk beat it by creativity, but later admitted that he missed the point of it). In Star Trek this was done to test what a future officer would do if faced with certain failure. In a D&D game it’s a little more complicated. Part of it is to set up the BBEG, put their plan in motion, and set the stage for the next leg of the game. But it’s also to give your players, who are clearly into it, a darkest-hour scenario. Not every player group is going to be into facing down the Kobiashi Maru, and it’s clear from the aforementioned critiques that a lot of them are on Reddit. Power-gamers who always want to win are not going to enjoy this sort of storytelling, but players who are really into RP and working through difficult times and failures will eat this stuff up. And this is absolutely the sort of table playing on Critical Role. There is a level of trust there that can only be built after years of working together, and this was finally the moment when Matt could pay off years of planning and campaign-spanning set-up.
Matt carefully plotted the structure of this episode out to give maximum agency and impact to a party of dramatically under-leveled characters. And they knew going in they were under-leveled. This wasn’t a surprise, but a potential suicide run by people who knew they weren’t the heroes they needed to be, but were the only heroes in the right place at the right time to try anything. So they came up with as good a plan as they could, and executed it fairly well, all things considered.
They knew they couldn’t take on Ludinus directly (and this was a great way to demonstrate exactly how much he had planned and how long, to bring in elements from C2, hints we’ve had for years about Ludinis, only to reveal it went deeper than any of the characters could have imagined), so Matt gave them some winnable objectives. This is a great way to keep the characters invested in an unwinnable scenario: the ultimate outcome may be beyond the characters, barring some insane genius or incredible rolls, but they can still help. They can do something that will have a tangible impact on events and hinder the baddies enough to give them another chance at a rematch and a way to stop the apocalypse when they’re higher level. So Matt gave them the batteries: take out as many as you can. While this would not stop the ritual, I suspect that the more they took out the more Ludinis would have to drain his own power to make the key work, and the longer the process would take. Knocking out the feywild key, as well as multiple power sources turned what would have been an instantaneous event if they had done nothing into a more drawn-out affair which, I suspect, could be stopped or even reversed. It gave them a window to come back and demand a rematch.
Then we have the high-level PC allies, and how to play with those sorts of characters without pulling focus from the PCs. Matt handled this very well, by having the players roll for their former PCs, taking the specifics of their actions out of his hands and letting the dice of the former players decide. He also revealed that Keyleth’s involvement, and baiting Vax with Otohan’s permadeath poison, was key to Ludinis’ ritual, which was why she couldn’t just dive in and clean everything up. But again, because of this story, it ties less back to Keyleth and more back to Orym. That was the point of the attack on Zephrah, to get her attention by getting her to look into who did it and then coming to get some payback, but the little guy on the ground has always been caught in the middle. Orym has been Ludinis’ unwitting pawn from the off, his family’s deaths merely a means to an end, and that is vicious and amazing set-up for character growth for him.
Beau and Caleb had to be there by the logic of the story. It didn’t make sense that Caleb would sit out a world-ending event orchestrated by a Cerberus Assembly member after spending years trying to take them down. Beau would obviously go with him. It also made sense that they would be the only two there, because they were scouting when Ryn got taken down, and after that were trying to keep a low profile. Shit accelerated too fast for them to call in reinforcements.
Which is the in-story reason for them to be there, but isolated and vulnerable, making them useful allies and wildcards (who likely could have been more useful if ultimately failing as well, but failed early thanks to Liam and Marisha’s rolls). But they were still outmatched. I have no idea what the challenge rating of Otohan, Leliana, and Ludinis are, but we know Otohan was considered ‘beatable’ back in Bassuras. That indicates she’s the lowest CR, particularly with the glowing weak-spot on her back. But she can still wreck a level-20 PC if she gets the jump on her, which she did. And that meant that she remained a massive threat. Caleb and Beau were playing it smart, keeping to the shadows, but still got caught by Leliana. Between dice rolls, careful planning, and some great enemy design, Matt really set up a team that could take on high-level players and win. And he made it clear that Ludinis did not leave this to chance. He has the best people he could muster after 1000 years of planning. Nothing short of a miracle could have truly stopped them.
Which is why we cut back to Bells Hells. Because ultimately this particular story isn’t about Keyleth or Vax or Caleb or Beau or any other former PCs. This is about the current party being caught up in events much larger than them and having to rise to the occasion. This is the story of the schmucks sent in to take out the batteries, but who have personal beef with the big bads. Ludinis orchestrated the plan to attack Zephrah to bait Keyleth and draw out Vax, and Otohan carried it out. And he used Orym as a pawn throughout all of it. This makes taking them down, but especially taking Otohan down, the cornerstone of Orym’s personal quest. Letting an NPC take her down would be taking away a critical part of his motivation and goals, which is an absolute no-no for a DM. NEVER bring in a god-tier NPC and take away player agency or story beats. Especially never have them resolve important player goals and backstory events! Every NPC, even the powerful ones, are there to support the story the players are telling. So of course Keyleth wasn’t going to take out Otohan. Of course she wasn’t going to stop the ritual. Beau and Caleb might have been able to do something more if Liam and Marisha hadn’t rolled so badly for them, but ultimately, they had to get caught or fail in another way.
For the sake of gameplay, Bell’s Hells had to be the only functional team. They had to be the ants that were beneath Ludinis’ notice long enough to really accomplish something. And as much as it feels like they failed, they had minor victories: Laudna and Ashton took out more batteries, making Ludinis drain his own power to kick off the apocalypse. They only failed to take out Otohan’s backpack by 2 HP, which showed them that she was an achievable goal in the future. If they had rolled a little better, they probably could have taken her out entirely, which would have felt like a big accomplishment for them. Imogen made her mother pause in her assault before doubling down. This leaves open very interesting future beats for their interactions. Can she ultimately redeem her mother or would she have to take her out? Every step that Matt set up in this episode, from the reveals about Ludinis’ plans and Orym’s past, to Imogen’s interactions with her mother, to Chetney and likely Ashton finding themselves staring down their own backstories after the party split, was focused on this party, on getting them ready to step out of low-level play and advance.
And that’s the point of E51. It’s not a climax of the story, but the ultimate set-up. It’s putting all the pieces onto the board in a way that all the characters can now recognize. Yes, unless the players came up with something genius, the apocalypse was going to kick off, but their actions slowed everything down to a place where it could be combatted. Yes, the god-tier former PCs were always going to get neutered, because this is Bells Hells’ story, and you cannot have NPCs fix PC problems. They might have been able to do a little more before this happened, but the dice rolled.
And it’s honestly good for the PCs how things turned out. They have a clear objective, but are split up. This gives them great incentive to level up, explore character backstory, deal with their personal shit, get stronger, and then come back to kick the asses of all three of these villains (or possibly redeem one, we’ll see). Their powerful allies are now temporarily side-lined. Keyleth is badly hurt and will need time to recover. Caleb is collared and will need time to get that removed. Beau is likely up and moving now, but will need to safeguard Caleb for a while.
The Bells Hells are on their own. The Darkest Hour has come, and it’s time for them to rise up and go from nobodies to heroes. This is their true call to adventure. And as a DM, it was so cool seeing how Matt set up all the pieces over the campaign, only to pay them out in such a satisfying and motivating way in this episode.
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@general-illyrin @tar-thelien @who-needs-words I think you all mentioned being interested in the reverse gondolin au - is anyone interested in helping with wrangling the timelines, especially the second age stuff? Here's the current outline:
(Edit: anyone feel free to help out if you're interested!)
YT 14365 - Birth of Lomion
YT 14373/FA 1 - Death of Argon
FA
2 - Aredhel adopts Lomion
300 - Birth of Idril
316 - Turgon & Idril kidnapped by Eol
400 - Turgon & Idril rescued. Death of Eol
465 - Finrod more-peacefully passes throne to orodreth while on Quest. Everyone except beren still dies
472 - Nirnaeth. Turgon named High King of the Noldor.
476 - Turgon abdicates official title. Aredhel named High King of the Noldor.
496 - Tuor comes to Gondolin
502 - Wedding of Idril and Tuor
503 - Births of Earendil and Elwing. Idril begins to have foresight dreams about the Fall.
506 - Second Kinslaying. C^3 dead, celebrimbor stays in gondolin. Aredhel denounces the oath/kinslaying and disowns C^3
Elwing survives & is found by Oropher & Thranduil // Galadriel & Celeborn. oropher, thranduil, oropher's wife, and thranduil's then-gf // galadriel & celeborn take Elwing to Gondolin as refugees. The Silmaril is left hidden in the woods of melian's domain.
507 - Elwing comes to Gondolin.
509 - Idril captured by Morgoth. Idril reveals the location of Gondolin in exchange for an Oath to not harm her family (Turgon, Tuor, and Earendil). Idril rescued.
510 - Gondolin prepares for war with Morgoth.
513-522 - Siege of Gondolin. Deaths of Duilin and Rog. Gothmog slain by Aredhel the Huntress. First use of the Three Rings by Lomion and Celebrimbor in defense of Gondolin. House of the Hammer of Wrath destroyed.
523 - Maedhros believes a Silmaril is with Elwing at Gondolin.
525 - Earendil weds Elwing. Lomion weds ???. Adoption of Gil-Galad
532 - Births of Elrond and Elros.
538 - Third Kinslaying at Gondolin. Death of Amras. Elrond and Elros kidnapped by Maglor. Deaths of Elwing and Turgon. Second use of the Three Rings by Lomion and Celebrimbor. Deaths of Maedhros and Aredhel. Lomion named King of Gondolin and High King of the Noldor. Deaths of Salgant, Penlod, and Tuor. Earendil named Lord of the House of the Wing.
540-549 - War declared between Gondolin and the Feanorians of Himring over the Third Kinslaying and kidnapping of Princes Elrond and Elros.
549 - Elrond and Elros recovered. Feanorians and Gondolin severely weakened. Celebrimbor // Gil-Galad declared heir to the High Kingship.
552-554 - Second Siege & Fall of Gondolin. Third use of the Three Rings by Lomion and Celebrimbor. Deaths of Ecthelion, Glorfindel, Egalmoth, and Turgon. Idril and Celebrimbor lead survivors through the Secret Way.
555 - Gondolithlim refugees arrive at Sirion.
556 - Idril departs for Valinor.
558 - Earendil searches for Valinor.
560 - Havens of Sirion destroyed by Morgoth. Gondolithlim/Doriathrim survivors scattered. Elrond and Elros rescued (as adults) by Maglor.
572 - Morgoth controls Beleriand. Earendil and reembodied Elwing come to Valinor and rally the Host.
575-617 - War of Wrath
618 - Maglor claims the Silmaril from Eonwe's camp and casts himself into the Sea. Death of Maglor.
620 - End of the First Age.
SA
1 - Founding of the Grey Havens and Lindon under High King Lomion
2 - Elros becomes the first King of Numenor
c. 500 - Sauron returns to Middle-Earth in the East.
650 - Eregion is founded
1000 - Galadriel is given Vilya; Lomion wields Nenya
1170 - Annatar comes to Lindon and Lomion turns him away. Lomion warns Celebrimbor of Eregion of his suspicions.
1200 - Annatar comes to Eregion. Celebrimbor takes him in to monitor.
1250 - Celebrimbor creates the Seven; Lomion creates the Nine.
1410 - Annatar is kicked out of Eregion.
1600 - The One Ring is forged. Sauron remains in hiding.
1610 - Sauron begins to gather and prepare armies in the East.
1673 - War of the Elves and Sauron begins.
1675 - Sauron invades Eriador.
1677 - Fall of Ost-in-Edhil. Celebrimbor and Lomion remain at the House of the Mirdain. Death of Celebrimbor in battle // Fourth use of the Three in battle. Sauron does not learn of the Seven. Founding of Imladris.
1678 - Sauron defeated by the Numenoreans and the Elves of Lindon.
1679 - Sauron flees to Mordor. First White Council held.
3147 - Civil war in Numenor.
3225 - Ar-Pharazon seizes the Sceptre.
3228 - Elrond claims the Sceptre. Ar-Pharazon disowned. Tar-Miriel named Ruling Queen.
3232 - Sauron taken to Numenor as a prisoner.
3274 - Elrond kicks Sauron out of Numenor and outlaws the morgoth cult.
3310 - Morgoth cult publicly reappears.
3319 - Downfall of Numenor. Tar-Miriel leads a greater force of the Faithful away.
(green // blue means two main options, red means i need to think about it more)
The main details I'm figuring out right now are
does Celebrimbor still die at Eregion - I don't think he's getting captured/tortured, but he could still die in the battle. On the other hand, he could probably survive by using Narya & Lomion using Nenya, but that would definitely have repercussions further down the line
how does Idril's deal work - I'm currently thinking of Idril exchanging the location of Gondolin for her family's guaranteed safety, because it seems in character for Reverse Idril? But on the other hand, even if I limit it to immediate family at the time of the oath (tuor, turgon, earendil) then idk where turgon dies? Maybe Maglor can kill him but that seems kind of random
where and how does Turgon die
how does Prince Elrond's character even work
how does Numenor still fall when factoring in Prince Elrond - I'm thinking that the morgoth death cult gained enough traction during the time sauron was there that even after Elrond kicks him out, the cult still sticks around and reemerges later? The Fall still happens, but they never go to attack valinor and there's a good deal more Faithful (maybe 40-60%?)
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AU where Jason doesn't come back and attack Tim, and the Batfam doesn't know he is alive, but he still becomes a villain
*pre-batfam knows Jason is alive*
Batman and Tim/Robin: *storm into an out-of-town building with bad guys*
Bad guy: Oh my god, you're-
Batman, used to it: I am Batman
Bad Guy: Jace's dad
Batman, visibly confused: Jace?
Another bad guy: oh god, you're right, that is Jay Jay's dad, hold on, let me facetime him really quick *pulls out his phone*
The phone: hey, what's up? Finally got the money to pay me?
Bad guy: dude, it's like 50 grand, we're working on it, so chill, but guess who we're with right now?
*Batman rushing up behind them so he can see Jason*
The phone: it better be someone pretty important, you guys interrupted me while I was reading.
Bad guy: *moves to the side so Jason can see Batman as Robin starts to climb into frame to see him too*
Jason: B? What are you- OH MY GOD, DID YOU REALLY GET ANOTHER ROBIN? Wait a minute, Larry, call me privately, I wanna talk to you *ends FaceTime*
Batman: I want that number right now. Give it to me RIGHT NOW
*phone rings, "JJ" pops up on the screen*
Bad guy, holding up a finger to tell Batman to hold on: *picks it up* no we're not in Gotham, he came here to us- no, no, I'm sorry, we forgot you haven't told him- well I-
Batman takes the phone: how dare you pretend to be my dead son, I don't know what kind of ploy or game you're getting at-
Jason: Jesus Bruce, you're so dramatic. Dont worry, I haven't told any of them your identity, or even my last name so they can't piece it together, they just think Batman is my dad, so I'm not gonna sully the family name or whatever
Bruce: that's not-
Jason: Little women are getting into some big problems over here so I'm gonna let you go. Bye B. *Hangs up*
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(Crossposted to Dreamwidth)
The thing that makes me the most "run around in circles" crazy about Initiation is that Alan wrote the Casey of the Dark Place into the story to help him, and then made it so that Casey knows even less about what is going on than Alan does.
Alan never gives Casey the opportunity to get past step fucking one to help him, explains nothing to him, and Casey ends up with no idea what he's even doing here, no idea what his assigned purpose is, no idea what his narrative goals are. He's an actor given no script, no stage direction, to the point that Casey doesn't even know they're in a story, and it makes him sink deeper into depression with every passing loop with no knowledge to ground him.
And it's impossible to tell if this is because Alan didn't realise that he had the perfect opportunity to write Casey like the Diver, a living repository of Alan's accumulating knowledge about the Dark Place, a seeing-eye dog to guide him through the dark -- or if Alan did try that, and it somehow went so horribly wrong that now he and Casey can't both survive in the same narrative line without trying to kill each other -- or if Alan did try that, and it went horribly right, and now the Dark Presence can't let Casey live because Alan's bespoke perfect little detective is too good at finding out useful things.
And instead, in the story we currently have, Alan made up a guy for a specific purpose of helping him, but because Alan is the protagonist, because it's his story, his fault, his duty and his job to get himself out of it, he doesn't even let Casey fulfil his narrative purpose. What the hell else is Casey supposed to do, Alan, other than the thing you literally made him for? He's the detective -- he's supposed to solve things.
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so @blunderbussin gave me an excuse to write an essay about hirasawa and im going to do that instead of anything impactful with my life and it's going to probably get stupid long. oopsie
So the aspect of Hirasawa that intrigues me the most is the lore surrounding the interactive live shows, a form of storytelling he's more or less pioneered. While there seems to be no particular overarching story (anymore. but thats a story for another day), all the stories that are told by the different shows are loosely connected, sharing characters or referencing events in previous shows; as well as being supplemented by sporadic stories that Hirasawa writes about some of the characters.
And listen. When i say 'loosely connected' i mean i have spent hours and hours and hours with my closest friends (who are also hirasawa fans) trying to stitch these events into a semi-cohesive whole because this old man does not give two brass coins for any kind of continuity (and he's really loosey-goosey on any kind of details), which drives me absolutely insane because goddamnit i will make this stupid thing make sense all together.
Also there's really some pretty banger concepts in these lives: machines that enforce the reality of the world based on collective perception, totalitarian government ruled by an alien fern, the green nerve network (its really hard to explain), Sim City as a place, an echo of modern cities in a virtual universe, Layer-Green/Communo Hybridia, the digital sea, timeline hopping cyborgs with terminal self-loathing
im talking about HIM my beloved good times girl, my rotten cheese man btw ↆↆↆↆ
anyway. this is a topic i could literally talk for hours about And I Have. i've spent so much time lovingly crafting theories only for them to have about a million holes shot through them because of some silly detail i completely forgot. oops. but im going to shut up for now before i get into the really deep/silly shit because if i speak about the ascii dragon or luuk sathwan khondiaw i will literally never ever shut up. i am a dork
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