#but i still have opinions about aang as a character and kataang as a ship and what EYE think makes sense in the context of the canon

[the-badger-mole]

@allnewalldifferentwildspider

I will say, I think it's interesting when people say that arguing that the finale and Kataang happening the way it was just giving Aang what he wanted is somehow us taking Katara's agency away. Katara was rightfully angry with Aang in her last two encounters with him. Giving her agency within that narrative would look like her actually having a conversation with Aang and telling him how she felt. I don't just mean romantically, I mean having an actual conversation where her conflict with him is laid out and resolved, like it would be in any healthy friendship, and much more a healthy romance. People can argue that they had a conversation off screen. That's fine. I will never tell anyone they can't headcanon whatever they please. It's none of my business unless they make it my business. Have so much fun. Don't even think about me or my opinions. They don't matter.

However, she never had that conversation. It's not in the show. It's not in the comics. It's not canon. The way her moment of "oh, I like him" was set up implied that she only considered him romantically because he ostensibly singlehandedly "saved the day" (he most certainly did not). There's never a moment where she gets to be vulnerable with him and have him help her carry her burden. No moment of why she might like him romantically (and also, may I add, we never see what, aside from her looks, Aang likes about Katara). Any "build up" of Kataang on her end is largely done through external circumstances and not the result of her coming to understand her feelings (this from the passionate girl who wears her heart on her sleeve for the entire series). They are also never again brought up by her- and the times it brought up by Aang in canon are disastrous (Lava Fissure Incident. EIP. Arguably DoBS). Katara never has a chance to confront Aang on his blatant disrespect of her culture, and it's never walked back- in fact, IIRC, in the comics, he supports the soft colonization of the SWT by the NWT.

I can understand why people have the headcanon that Katara and Aang had a deep conversation off-screen that resolved all their issues and gave Katara a chance to tell him she liked him and why. I think that if you ship them, you kind of have to headcanon something like that. But I do not think canon supports it. Their deep conversations center Aang and his feelings. Katara's feelings never seem to matter that much to Aang. He didn't even care that Katara and Sokka had lost their father to the Fire Nation after Hakoda sacrificed himself to save Aang's stupid behind. He wanted to go run off and play. Our hero, ladies and babies. There has to be a lot of head canoning to make Kataang work. I know because everything I hate about Aang and Kataang is canon. If I'm basing Kataang on the canon, it looks just like the glimpses we get in LoK, only with a lot less hero worship of Aang.

Don't get me wrong, all the overt romance in Zutara is pure headcanon. I recognize that and I love that for us. What's not head canon is that Zuko shows Katara a ton of support and respect in their short onscreen friendship. And at the risk of upsetting Aang's fans, I will argue Zuko showed her feelings more consideration than Aang ever did in the entire series.

#atla #anti kataang #anti aang #zutara #i don't care what anyone headcanons in regards to aang #i'm not here to argue anyone out of their headcanons #but i still have opinions about aang as a character and kataang as a ship and what EYE think makes sense in the context of the canon #i don't headcanon a deep conversation between them #i headcanon that katara only ended up with him out of a sense of obligation to him #i also headcanon that they ended...quickly #canon is more of a set of guidelines than actual law #which is also good news if you ship kataang

[42starsintheuniverse]

Sokka & Zuko- The Invisible Winner of the Kataang/Zutara Debate.

Please don't take this as "Shipping War Bait", I'm doing a character analysis of ATLA about my opinion on which close Zuko relationship makes the most sense!

I feel like fandom treated Zuko/ Sokka as a crack ship but like?? That's never made sense to me.

Firstly I personally think that Aang will always remember how the fire nation destroyed his people. No matter how much he consciously says he forgives Zuko (& the fire nation) I would BET that unconsciously there's still something deeply hurt in Aang that can never truly be healed about that. As a result, Aang would not be able to LOVE Zuko as close as his other relationships. It's one of those hard to swallow pills but it's just how I interpret the characters. Aang's body has that bias, the deepest parts of his mind won't ever forget the horrific fact that his people are dead because of Ozai, and Zuko is Ozai's firstborn.

I know Aang's whole thing is that he preaches forgiveness, but here's the thing... We aren't always aware of how deeply our trauma affects us. Sometimes you don't hold a conscious bias against people... You hold an Unconscious bias. And to me, Aang holding an unconscious bias against Zuko, and not being as close to him, makes sense.

Toph could honestly work with Zuko, I think she's also a good contender for closest relationship. Though I see it in either a platonic or romantic sense (depends on the vibe). I think there could be a bit of 'fandom implicit bias' there in having Zuko and Toph constantly presented as platonic only. Like, Toph is disabled, she's blind... Do we ever question that maybe we don't like putting her with people romantically because she's disabled? Is Katara the one people ship Zuko with romantically- because Katara is more traditionally attractive? Toph is short, stocky, has short hair, is brash, and blind... Like, there's a chance she doesn't get the same treatment as Katara because she's not traditionally attractive in the way Katara is.... Something to think about.

-All that being said, I like Toph and Zuko as having a close bond either romantically or platonically. I think it's funny that they're both born rich kids, I think it's funny that they only have one fully functioning eye between them (and the comedy and hijinks that leads to). And they do work really well together throughout the show, Toph forgives Zuko when he accidentally burns her feet. And Zuko clearly appreciates how chill Toph is- she doesn't have PERSONAL bias towards Zuko as the son of the Fire Lord, in the way that the other three do.

Moving on to Katara, I have a similar sort of feeling there. It's made obvious that Katara SAW her mother die at the hands of the fire nation. It was traumatic, it was horrific, and because she was a child watching it- that is likely a DEEP core memory. In the context of the show, Zuko helps Katara find the man who killed her mother, because it's sort of a levelling of the scales. It doesn't even make Katara LIKE Zuko, it makes her neutral towards him. He helped her to basically right a wrong (that's her perspective). So yeah- for the same reasons, I've just never been convinced that Zuko and Katara could have a strong and intimate relationship because of the deepness of Katara's trauma. It takes a significant amount of time in terms of the show for her to even start talking and trusting Zuko at all. Doesn't FEEL like good romantic potential to me.

But Sokka, Sokka is the best fit of them so far. The thing is, Zuko and Sokka have a lot of different experiences- but shared values. Consider the things they've had to deal with, Sokka had to handle a huge level of grief & pressure as he quickly became responsible for his family and community at a noticeably young age. Then consider how that parallels (it is not THE SAME, but there is a PARALLEL) to Zuko's abuse & exile. They're both young men, they're both conditioned to think they should be a certain way (Sokka a warrior, Zuko a tyrant). Sokka is creative & inventive, which mirrors how Zuko has to create a new emotional source for his fire bending- once again, these are parallel elements of their characters, and demonstrate how they could relate to each other.

Sokka as a character is also slightly more separated from the association between the fire nation and the death of his mother- compared to Katara. Once again, she saw it happen right in front of her as a small child, Sokka was slightly older when the event happened, and didn't see it first hand.

There are some more generic elements of their characters that might suggest gay subtext; such as Sokka's hypermasculinity being a masking behaviour so no-one would think he's attracted to men. (Most people understand why that is; but if you don't know- leaning into very masculine things as a man, can make it feel like people won't question your assumed "straightness").

But I think what I've touched on is more relevant because it's very much tied to THESE specific characters, and how they interact, and how they could relate to each other.

TLDR; Zuko and Sokka work as a ship cos they have less things stopping them (barriers to intimacy & trauma to heal from). And they have probably the highest relatability to each other's lives, allowing them to trust each other and open up, compared to the other characters.

#ATLA #zukka #atla zukka #sokka x zuko #writing analysis #character analysis #character study #shipping #ship discussion #Please don't start huge fights about this #It's not supposed to be an attack #It's supposed to be a deconstruction of the relationships #I just hope people understand that

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Anti Tagging is a Broken System

So there was this anti Zutara post that I saw a while ago that was tagged as both 'anti zutara' and 'zutara'. As you can imagine, zutara bloggers were mad and the OP claimed they tagged the post as 'zutara' as payback for zutara fans bashing kataang in the 'kataang' tag.

There was also a jedi critical post that was considered to be insulting to someone's religion or culture or some other nonsense. The person asked (**demanded**), the post be tagged as 'anti jedi' because seeing it in the 'jedi order' tag was causing real-world harm.

It confirmed my belief that the tagging system is severely broken and lacking.

These are two issues at play that I notice:

Villain vs Hero Double Standard

What's interesting is that this issue is mainly relevant for protagonists. If I want to bash Ozai, Palpatine or Joker on Tumblr, I don't have to tag my posts as anti. Maybe their fans would prefer it but we all know that these men are villains and the lowest scum in media. It's not bashing - it's the cold hard truth.

So why is it that my calling Ozai a bad father is not Ozai bashing, but me calling Aang a bad father is Aang bashing?? Why the double standards?? Sure, the hero will likely be more sympathetic because we are meant to root for them. But at the end of the day, just like Ozai, Aang played favourites and this left scars on his kids even in their fifties. If you are an Aang fan you can try to justify it, but his actions still hurt his kids no matter how you spin it.

What Does 'Anti' Even Mean??

There are too many ways to be anti character, anti ship etc which makes things murky.

Let's use Kataang as an example. Are you anti Kataang because you objectively looked at the ATLA show and you think how it is presented makes it a bad ship? Are you anti KA because you genuinely like the ship but you think it was not developed properly or did not go the way you thought best? Are you anti KA because you are just emotionally repulsed for whatever reason even though canon may give you reasons to support it? Are you anti KA just because it may be popular to be so in your circle?

That's the problem. Theoretically, the first two scenarios could be classified under the general 'kataang' tag. Because people who hold those opinions are not just bashing it for no reason but have objective truths that they have observed about the ship. Saying that Aang kissed Katara without her consent is an objective truth. Why should that be labelled as 'anti kataang'? It's the truth about the ship.

How would I address this?

The general tag should not be treated as a safe space. If you want a safe space, stick to a 'pro' or 'anti' tag. The general tag should be treated like a neutral zone where everything is laid on the table for debate and discourse. So if I browse the Jedi Order tag, I should see metas about cool Jedi powers and master-padawan relationships but also metas about the separation of families and the social harm it causes kids.

People need to stop being babies and grow up. If someone posts a critical meta about the Jedi order, it does not mean they are attacking whatever religion you have or calling for genocide in real life. Do you know how much witchcraft, paganism, atheism and other kinds of Christian bashing posts I see in the Christianity tag?? If you don't like something, just scroll past it like a big kid. Don't send death or rape threats to someone if you disagree with them.

I think if someone does not have substantial or accurate reasons for hating something, they should stick to the anti tag and avoid the general tag.

What do others think?? Tagging is hard because it's up to the discretion of the poster but I hope my arguments here made sense.

@caripr94

@tragicfantasy-girl

@sokkastyles

@the-badger-mole

#tumblr discourse #fandom etiquette #tagging #shipping discourse #character discussion #atla aang #aang vs ozai #character bashing #atla #anti tagging #jedi order #jedi order critical #toxic fandom #star wars discourse #star wars #atla discourse #anti kataang

[burst-of-iridescent]

at the moment, 5.7k people are following the kataang tag, not 2.9k, as you said, why would you lie? in addition, even on Tumblr (which remained almost the last popular zk place among all fan platforms), Zukka is ahead of Zutara in popularity, and a lot of talented and popular creators of fan art and fan fiction are now concentrated in the Zukka and Maiko fandom. It is fundamentally a mistake to focus on the popularity of the ship, because shipping should be for personal pleasure, but this only shows that most people are ATLA fans (namely fans, not casual viewers) they actively love ATLA and did not see zutara in the canon. In addition, can you give evidence of your words that «almost all of the main cast and most of the writers» love zutara? From the cast, only Dante actively confessed his love for zutara, but he also spoke about his love for zukka, Mae Whitman not against Zutara and joked about it, but she also said in podcast that she also loves kataang, the rest of the actors did not speak at all about their preferences in shipping (except Grey DeLisle who prefers zucest).

none of the screenwriters has ever confessed his love for Zutara, on the contrary, Ehasz has said several times that he loves Maiko, he also wrote almost all the most significant maiko and kataang episodes. The only one of the 13 main writers of ATLA who spoke about sympathy for Zutara is John O'Bryan. Zutara never featured in any of the original scripts, and in ATLA's "bible," the only love triangle that was originally planned was Aang-Katara-Toph (who was a boy in the original script). In a recent interview, Ehaz also answered the question of how he feels about zutara vs kataang, that he, as a professional screenwriter, "follows his characters" and their final canonical choice of love interest is the choice of the character himself, not the writers.

.

i wrote 2.9k the first time around by mistake. the original post has since been amended to reflect the actual numbers of the kat.aang tag, though frankly the disparity between the two tags is still so large that i don’t even think it matters. anyway, my bad. thanks for letting me know.

many cast members and former writers on the official atla podcast, braving the elements, have talked about shipping zutara — including, but not limited to, dante basco, jack de sena, michaela murphy, joshua hamilton, and john o’bryan. grey delisle, mae whitman & greg baldwin have also spoken about being zutara shippers. i’m not sure why them liking or showing support for other ships somehow means they don’t ship zutara, because people don’t need to ship only a single couple to prove they’re “real” shippers lmao. i like azutara, sukitara, ty luko & even book 1 kat.aang myself; that doesn’t make me any less of a zutara shipper.

i’m also not sure why you expect me to do the work of providing evidence for you when, given the fact that you’re here, i’m certain you have just as much access to google as i do. this information is freely available online. feel free to fact check me.

and let me say this again, in case it was not clear enough: i truly do not care about zutara’s popularity. even if none of the cast and writers shipped it, even if the tag only had 10 people, even if every single wonderfully talented writer & artist & AMV editor & GIF maker in this fandom left, i would still ship it. because it’s a better story, because it is more thematically and narratively cohesive, and because it makes me happy.

and if you disagree with that, that’s fine by me. but somehow trying to “prove” to me that zutara is unpopular and no one likes it is not only a) factually false it’s also b) not going to do a damn thing to change my mind lmao. the opinions of other people have never been a reason for me to ship zutara, and they never will be.

#zutara

[eponastory]

ZUTARA...

Okay, so my thoughts...

Look, I'm an OG fan. I was a teenager when the animated show came out and boy oh boy...

Okay, so yes, I am a Zutara shipper. I have been since the show aired, and the way the show ended with Aang and Katara left an icky taste in my mouth. I'm not anti Kataang either. It just gives me... eew. Especially now that I'm an adult and I know relationships are messy to begin with. I don't agree that the show creators think that Zutara would be toxic... that is not necessarily true as Zuko's character doesn't support such a thing and neither does Katara's. Aang is still a child mentally and he doesn't seem to understand that people are going to do what they are going to do. Case and point, The Southern Raiders. Aang confronts Katara telling her that she should let it go and forgive Yon Rah... the only problem with this is that Katara needs to deal with her own closer. Forgiveness does not mean closure. Take it from me, a person who has difficulty letting go of hurts from the past. Some things I can forgive, while other things I can't because they are still a problem for me today, which is why I'm in therapy. It is not up to Aang to decide what Katara needs to do in that moment. If anything, he is showing his complete misunderstanding of her resolve. She is angry, hurt, and compulsive. She is feeling these things because her past has been thrown in her face by Zuko's presence. Because he is there, all that hurt is like a thousand daggers in her back. Zuko is letting her do. He is letting her feel, and for those who say he is encouraging her to murder someone, that isn't what is going on. He is basically letting her do what she needs to do. When someone is feeling that way, you wither let them feel it and support them or you get out of the way. People are going to do what they want. It's a hard lesson to learn.

Aang has his world view of peace and compassion, which is not a bad thing, but he lacks understanding. Probably because he is still a child and still learning the ways of people. People are cruel and sometimes unforgiving, but we can also be kind, loving, and filled with hope. Aang sees the good in everyone, except Ozai, which I'm pretty sure the only thing good about Ozai is the fact that Mark Hamil is behind his voice. But anyway, I like Aang. He's a good character that transforms everyone he interacts with. That is the best quality about him. The absolute worst of his qualities is that he tends to push his beliefs into the open without taking a moment to think about how others feel. And that isn't even that bad. It's a disregard of those emotions that leave a little bit of bitterness in my mouth. But that is something everyone struggles with at one point. That is just being human.

But yeah, this is just my humble opinion. Relationships are messy and they need work. They arent always going to be perfect, which is why neither ship is going to be better than the other. Does Aang and Katara have a happy marriage? Well, I can't say that they do because there isn't much to go on other than they have children. I'd like to think they have their ups and downs like most relationships do.

Would Zuko and Katara have a good relationship? Going off of their character I'd say they would balance each other out. It won't be toxic because they do fine when they are together in the show. They work well as a team and have each other's backs. So yeah, that is there in the show.

I'd also like to point out that Zuko and Mai don't tick the boxes for outstanding relationship. Those two have been on and off and I honestly don't think they will get back together. Kinda reminds me of the guy I was on and off with for five years... now that was toxic.

But yeah. I've done the shipping thing for so long it doesn't matter if it's Canon or not. Like I seriously shipped Sesshomaru and Kagome for years even though I knew she and Inuyasha were going to be together. Didn't care too much for Sess/Rin because again... eew. You ship who you want and what you feel makes sense. Does this mean people have to berate others about it? No. There should never be any condescension or degrading because we are all fans.

But for real... I think Azula and Sokka should get together. And I'm not on the Taang ship either.

Fight me... I dare you.

#so many ships out at sea #which one to hop on? #zutara #kataang #character study #life experiences #zuko #katara #avatar aang #avatar the last airbender

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

I will genuinely never understand why zvtarians love to paint Aang as this abusive, violent rapist and Zuko as an angel come down from earth, would never do anything wrong love interest. Like… I don’t mean to point out the obvious but… Zuko (when he was still an enemy) had no care for her safety? His mission was to capture Aang, everyone stopping him from doing that was just an obstacle. If anything happened to them? He didn’t care. This is not to slander Zuko at all, by the way, because I adore him and his character but hate when people misinterpret him. Like the whole point of his character is that he’s flawed, that he isn’t perfect. So for them to paint him as a saint… really disrespectful to his character development honestly. Like they’ll always go on about how ‘he was so careful when he fought her’… no? He wasn’t? Katara is strong, she can hold her ground, that’s why it seems balanced (not that they’d know that, since they love to make her a damsel) Zuko gave no regard for her safety whatsoever. Sigh, I would go on a tangent about how incorrect their opinions of Aang are but, this ask is already too long.

"He was always so careful with her! Just see how he sent a hitman after Katara's group!"

Did we EVER get a moment of Pre-redemption Zuko being in anyway concerned about Katara's safety, like post-redemption Zuko was for Azula when he saw her falling off a damn cliff? Or of him refusing to truly hurt her, or offering to at least try help her when she's in danger, like he did with Zhao?

NO! Because Katara meant nothing to him. She was just the waterbender that travelled with the Avatar. She was not from his country, was not just following the Fire Lord's orders, was not his family/someone he knew for years. It didn't matter that she was far less hostile to him than Azula and Zhao, she was just a "little peasant" as he said in the North Pole.

For God's sake, Zuko full on threatened all that was left of Katara's village in the first damn episode, and threw a massive blast of fire towards her, Sokka and Aang. He blasted his flames at her for offering to heal his uncle. How the fuck is that "careful"?

Zuko always had a heart and he was always capable of compassion - but before his redemption, Katara never got more than a glimpse of it because he ABSOLUTELY saw Katara as nothing more than a threat/colateral damage. At best, she meant NOTHING to him. At worst, he resented her for going against him despite being a peasant of an inferior people group that his nation was literally commiting genocide against.

Again, see him siding with AZULA even after hearing Katara explicitly say how much the war hurt her personally. Zuko did not trust Azula at all and had plenty of good reasons to resent her, but he joined the fight in Ba Sing Se to save HER from Aang and Katara.

Motherfuckers will claim Zutara is "deeper, more complex and more complicated than Kataang" and then not be able to handle the concept of an enemies-to-lovers ship having the enemies in question legitmatelly trying to hurt each other. Such boring, cowardly people. If you can't handle a ship in their dynamic starts with one of the characters involved being an utter bastard to the other, go ship something else because this is clearly not for you.

#anti zutara

[hermiones-amortentia]

Ask game but for Kataang, Zutara and Zukka (Zuko and Sokka)

Kataang: I don't ship it.

Why don’t you ship it: bcz it has the same problem that Harry/Hermione has. The woman putting all the effort in a relationship while the man does bare minimum and still gets her as a trophy bcz he is supposed to be the hero. Its always Katara who takes care of Aang, tolerates his rude behaviour, consoles him when he is upset, can calm him down when he is in the avatar state. What does Aang do in this relationship? Next to nothing. Plus there is like zero chemistry. She is much more of a mom figure to him than gf.

What would have made you like it: If aang contributed equally in the relationship, if there wasn't a mom/son dynamic between them and if aang was a bit older(at least same age as Katara).

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it: the fanarts are cute!!!

.

Zukka: I don't ship it

Why don’t you ship it: why would I ship it? Its like two most random characters together only for gay smut. Sokka is better off with Suki. Zuko with Katara.

What would have made you like it: If they had great heartfelt moments and chemistry.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it: the fanarts are cute

.

Zutara: MY ATLA OTP!!!

What made you ship it: they have the best chemistry in the series. Katara is the 1st one to trust Zuko, Zuko owns upto his all mistakes and works hard to earn Katara's fotgiveness, they understand each other, Zuko puts effort in that relationship and its much more equal than Katara/Aang.

What are your favorite things about the ship: honestly Zuko taking Azula's lightning for Katara made me MELT!!

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship: Its not unhealthy as many people claim it is. And it's definitely not even REMOTELY similar to trash like Dramione and Reylo..

#avatar the last airbender #avatar katara #avatar zuko #zuko #zuko x katara #prince zuko #katara #aang #sokka #anti zukka #anti kataang #azula #zutara

[foggyfanfic]

Rant about ship wars in the ATLA fandom under the cut

With the live action coming out recently, I dipped my toes back in the ATLA fandom and I just… why are the ship wars STILL so vitriolic?! It ended like fifteen years ago, why are people still getting so angry about this? I guess these days I identify as a multi shipper (even if I will always have my favorite), because it’s actually not that hard to see the different ways different characters fit together. Honestly, it’s kind of fun to explore how Toph might foil Aang vs Sokka, or so on or so forth. I don’t know, there are ships I vibe with more than others, but they all have good and bad traits to them. They all bring out different sides to the characters and that’s fun. I can understand arguing why the dynamics of your Otp fit the show’s narrative better then the dynamics of your Notp, but why has it become a question of morals? Even at my most Thirteen I never saw my ship as morally superior to another ship because…? Why would I?

I get why people get up in arms for things like incest or pedo ships, I don’t think attacking somebody for their fictional ship is ok, but at least I get the outrage. Ngl I do tend to block that sort of stuff on sight cuz I don’t want to see it, but that’s kind of the point. This doesn’t need to be a huge drama. If somebody’s ship really bothers you that much just block the tag. Ta da! Now it’s gone, yaaay.

Sorry to rant, I’m just bummed I have to wade through essays on why shipping these two characters together makes you a rape apologist or a colonizer or whatever to get to the essays on themes and symbolism. I was scrolling on Reddit and somebody asked why there are people who don’t ship Kataang, like a fool I put in my two cents (I do like them but some of the season three writing decisions call for fix it fics). Oof! People did not like that. I didn’t even go into detail because I know one person’s “Hm :/“ is another person’s “Aaaw :D”, and I try to avoid raining on parades. I made an active effort to clarify this is my opinion and I’m only giving it to answer the question but I had a whole deluge of people acting like I shot their dog and danced on its corpse. The thing is I want to discuss what I see as weak writing because I know other people will have a different perspective than I do, and they can point out things that didn’t occur to me. I don’t want to fight anyone about cartoon characters kissing, but I do want to explore the story with other people.

Ah well, maybe if I give it another 15 years people will finally settle down.

#foggy rambles #foggy rants #fandom #atla fandom critical #the last airbender #ATLA

[firelxdykatara]

it still baffles me how strangely 'toxicity' seems to be defined in a huge chunk of the atla fandom.

i still see posts about how 'toxic' the zutara fandom is, and the explanation that follows is invariably about how we talk about canon characters/relationships (accusing us of 'hating' aang and mai/kataang and maiko) and how we talk about zutara itself (accusing us of being 'bitter' and hating on bryke bc zk wasn't canon), meanwhile when zk shippers talk about fandom toxicity (in my experience) we're usually talking about how real people are attacked and denigrated for opinions on fictional relationships and characters.

aang and mai do not exist and do not have feelings that can get hurt bc some shippers on tumblr don't like them, but i've seen people accused of 'hating genocide survivors' for criticizing aang, and it's just... very funny to me how these two sides seem to be equated, even though they aren't equal at all.

people are allowed to dislike fictional characters or relationships, actually, and talking about that dislike (as long as it's in the appropriate spaces--if there truly is a rash of crosstagging that i don't see bc i don't go into those tags, that sucks and should stop!) is not inherently toxic. yelling at real people and calling them abuse apologists for the ships they like is. and it's just interesting to me that the atla fandom generally seems incapable of making this distinction.

#atla #atla fandom problems #atla fandom salt #every so often i just scroll the main tag for a while and see something that makes me go hmmmm

[agirlnherfandoms]

Omg same though, i was all about zutara growing up! Recently, my bf saw atla for the first time, and I was watching it with him (its been years, it was so fun!)

I guess back then I was kinda using katara as a self insert?? Haha I just had the biggest crush on zuko 😭

But watching it again recently idk I found this new appreciation for kataang, and aang especially! I just think aangs so charming and cute? 🥴

Like the headband episode? I mean, come on! Gahhh that episode made a kataang stan (the near kiss, and the way they look at each other at the end of the dance 🥺). Also that last atla comic had such a cute art style, and the kataang stuff was adorable!

AND LET ME TELL YOU! WHEN👏🏼 I 👏🏼 FOUND 👏🏼 OUT 👏🏼 WE'RE 👏🏼GETTING 👏🏼 AN 👏🏼 ATLA 👏🏼 MOVIE 👏🏼 WITH 👏🏼 ADULT 👏🏼 KATAANG 👏🏼 / GAANG 👏🏼 🤯🤯 (and katara and aang as the lead characters, I CANT WAIT!)

Also one thing I hated about shipping zutara was all the aang slander that came with it by other zutara fans, I couldn't stand it 😭😭

Hi anon!! 😊

Yay love seeing people relate to the post I posted about becoming a Kataang shipper during my re-watch of ATLA 😘 (you can read it here if you haven’t already).

Firstly, yesss, watching ATLA is still fun after years. Ngl I think when I was younger (mostly because Netflix wasn’t really big), I watched Avatar but not thoroughly. It was more like, if the episode is on the TV, I’m going to watch it. I might have missed an episode or I’d have to wait till next week to see the next episode. This is compared to when I got older and I could do a full binge watch of the whole thing on Netflix (which I recommend 😉).

Secondly, haha I soooo relate to crushing on Zuko. Honestly, still do lol (literally have you seen what he looks like in the comics!?! I didn’t know his hair could get better than season 3 but 😍). And yeah, definitely understand using Katara as a self-insert for the Zuko love 😂. Love an enemies to lovers!!!

(The above two are from The Promise)

(…and these two are from The Search)

Aww yes, I don’t think I paid much attention to Aang when I was younger (other than him being the main character lol) because of how much I loved Zuko. But truly, every single character is so amazing that they all deserve the same amount of love and attention 🥹.

THAT DANCE!! I don’t know what’s in the air at the Fire Nation but Aang was too smooth. After watching that episode, my standards went up by 5000%. I feel like that might have been the episode on my rewatch that made me think a bit differently about Kataang. I think prior to that I was still fully on the Zxtara (going to x the ship name out again in case shippers don’t want to see this xx) train but then that episode happened and I thought this is fricking cuteeee (then of course proceeded to rewatch again).

I’m so happy they’re giving us more adult Gaang content!! So so excited for that movie 😍 and all the Kataang content to come.

Yeah, and on your final point, I do remember lots of Aang hate from some shippers (I do think there might still be some even now). Definitely not saying all Zxtara shippers hate Aang (and definitely don’t think that was what anon was implying)!!! I do think it was a small minority who were probably just trying to find an excuse to hate Aang but I have seen many Zxtara shippers who absolutely adore Aang which always makes me happy because he is a sweet sunshine who deserves all the love and appreciation ☺️.

(This above picture still forever makes me soft 🥹)

-

Disclaimer just in case you didn’t read the post anon’s replying too / you don’t want to read it lol: I still ship Zxtara and this isn’t Zxtara hate. I just found that rewatching ATLA has made me ship Kataang as well. Perfectly fine if you favour one ship over the other! I’ve just found love for both :)

-

Love hearing opinions because none of my friends or family want to talk about fandoms with me so please keep them coming 🥺.

#avatar the last airbender #atla #kataang #atla katara #atla aang #aang #katara

[kstarlitchaotics]

My views on Avatar;

Love all of the gang don't-won't say anything negative about them

Pro Aang

Pro Zuko

Pro everyone (the gang Iroh Ursa ect) expect for Ozai & Mai (I don't necessarily hate Mai but she just got on my nerves easily when I was a kid okay feelings are the same) but especially don't like how she treated Zuko no matter what that ain't right

Every Iroh scene is 😘🥰

Sokka is underrated (mainly with fandom and even a bit with canon)

Used to ship Kataang (so really no bashing just not my fav) now with Zutara though if I have to be honest I would say my number one ship is Sukka (though secretly it always has been) even before thinking of shipping any of the Katara ships

Aang was right to spear Ozai he founded another way without taking his life -I mean isn't it wrong thought that was everyone's peace world ideal the dream

Love all the animals especially: Appa Momo Turtleducks Foo Foo Cuddly Poops & Flopsy

I don't really do any bashing only critical cause come on it might be a kid's show but you gotta admit there are some moments that made you go "wtf"

Ba Sing Sei is awesome and still creepy to this day

Blood bending still creeps me out 😣

I love Jet Haru and any other side characters that they came across

I'm indifferent when it comes to Azula's whole character really I mean I do feel some remorse but not so demanding on a redemption arc like so many do

I'm on n off with Ty Lee

I'm not big with other Sokka ships tbh only Suki was right for him (well besides Yue if she lived she and Sokka would've probably be my number one)

Koyshi is one of my top favs though enjoyed seeing all of the Avatars but just something about Kyoshi that I really like (and no it's not because she murdered Chin)

Want to know more about the Air Nomad(s) especially Gyatso

The Masters fight scene against the fire nation is still 🔥

Jet should've lived (I know the meaning behind it still though :/)

Sozin was a b*stard really (feel bad for Zuko no wonder he was so messed up)

Indifferent about people's opinions over the creators choice of how the ended it (especially with the couple) one may not like the couple but it's still their story no matter how much rumor(s) goes around 🤷‍♀️

#add more later #but this is my general thoughts #atla #avatar the last airbender #avatar #the last airbender #avatar fandom

[the-badger-mole]

Aang has to be one of the least popular protagonist I have seen on ao3. Out of all the main characters who appeared in season 1 and beyond (aamg, Katara, Sokka, and Zuko) aang has the least stories. I have never seen that happen to a main character before. Aang has like 13,000 stories and he is a side character in a majority, so it makes me think, why do so many people argue aang is such a great main character when he seems to be the least liked even by his fans.

This isn't me trying to do some popularity contest, it just seems like even fanfic writers can't do anything interesting with his character, which is sad because he has a lot of potential to be an amazing character.

Child who lost everyone he has ever known to war and time, waking up a hundred years later with the weight of this new world on his shoulders while still grieving his previous life, is such an interesting character, and the show did nothing with that and so neither did the fans.

You know what show did that premise justice? Futurama.

I think Aang's lack of attention comes down to him being ultimately a boring character. Yes, the premise of Aang had potential, but then Bryke turned him into a Gary Stu. And not even a particularly good Gary Stu. I think the lack of fics centering Aang have few explanations. Making Aang a more interesting character would take a lot of work. A lot more than people who aren't his biggest fans are probably willing to put in. It's easier to treat him like a side character, because frankly, that's what he should have been.

Second, fans who do like Aang- like his canon story and his canon ship- probably don't have a ton to add. I think that's not uncommon with a lot of canon ships. Most of my ships have been canon and although I have written for those shows, I'm a lot more prolific with Zutara- my one non-canon ship. I sincerely doubt I'd still be this invested if Zutara were canon. I'd still love them, but the same way I love Usa/Mamo. Content to just let the story be what it is, for the most part, unless inspiration strikes.

I also imagine some of it has to do with not wanting to admit how awful the canon made him seemingly by accident. In order to make an interesting story about Aang, they'd have to add some conflict, and no die hard Aang fans seem to be anymore willing to do that than Bryke were. Take that with a grain of salt, though. This is just my opinion. I don't spend a bunch of time reading Aang fics.

Third, the lack of Aang centered fics may actually be based on his popularity. I don't know. I think there are way fewer Aang fans than there seems to be, it's just that the main Aang fans are so loud. I wouldn't be surprised. After all, he's the most boring of the main cast, his tragic backstory notwithstanding. I only know two or three Aang/Kataang fans in real life, and they are very, very casual fans. Most of the other ATLA fans I know prefer other characters/ ship Zutara. Obviously, online Aang isn't the most popular character either. Oh, sure, there are plenty of polls that put him/his canon ship at the top, but if you look at the actual fan content...well, you can see for yourself.

#atla #anti aang #anti kataang #is aang cursed by his ship being canon? #or is he just a boring character to write for? #you be the judge #personally as long as the zutara content keeps coming i don't care who's winning the popularity contest #easy to say when my ship is the most popular but...

[pacificwaternymph]

My thoughts on Zutara Versus Kataang

Let me preface this by saying: I’m not here to come after anyone’s ship. If you like either one of these ships, that is a hundred percent valid. I can totally see the appeal of both of them, and tbh, it’s not my business what other people like.

I’m not here to start drama, this is entirely my opinion, and I’m not going to get into an argument with anyone over this. 

Starting off:

I don’t ship either of these ships. I don’t like either of them. And I don’t think any of the characters involved in either ship be in a romantic relationship. 

No, this isn’t me just saying that so I can ship Katara with Toph, or Suki, or Azula, or whoever else you might be thinking of. I genuinely don’t believe that a romantic relationship would be good for Katara, Zuko, or Aang at the time where the show leaves off. 

Let’s start with Kataang. 

I don't hate this ship because of its dynamic or because I dislike either of the characters. I think that in a hypothetical future scenario where the gaang are all a bit older, it could work really well.

When I first watched the show, I was the kind of person to just ship whatever pairing the show was pushing. So that meant that I was actually a Kataang shipper, and for a long time, too. 

But recently, after going back and rewatching it, I… just don’t really like it anymore.

First off, there is zero romantic tension between the two of them. For the vast majority of the show, Aang’s crush is entirely one-sided. I know they tried to show that Katara was also interested but like… it wasn’t working for me.

This may just be my inability to pick up on subtext, but even when they were shoving it in our face, I just… couldn’t get behind it. It never clicked for me.

And second, I would be remiss as an ATLA fan if I didn’t address the drama surrounding Kataang’s… first two kisses.

I, like many others, am uncomfortable with the fact that Aang kissed Katara without her consent, not once, but twice, one of which happening directly after she told him that she was confused, that she didn’t know what she wanted, and that she would prefer to stay friends for now.

“But Dizzy!” I hear you say. “He didn’t know any better! He’s only 12!” And that, my friends, is EXACTLY my point. 

Aang is still a child, and one that is dealing with a LOT going on around him. He lost his entire nation in what to him was only over the course of a few days, he has the weight of the world on his shoulders, and EVERYONE is depending on him. But at his core, he is still a kid, which is the entire point of the show. 

He is not emotionally mature enough to handle a long-term, committed relationship. I don’t think he should be romantically involved with anyone. Period. 

Aang is one of the youngest members of the cast. The only person I could potentially think of as younger would be Toph. He’s not even a teenager when the show starts. And that, does not sit right with me. 

Now, adult Kataang? Yeah, sure, that’s cute. I could get behind an older version of Kataang if they got together as adults or even in their later teenage years. But at twelve and fourteen, let’s be honest, that kind of relationship wouldn’t be very serious, and it wouldn’t last a year. 

I wish they had kept the ending more ambiguous. I’m fine with all the cute crush stuff they had going on with Aang, because kids his age are going to have crushes on people. But did they really need to make them kiss? 

And don’t think for one second I haven’t forgotten about Zutara, because I have some THOUGHTS about it.

Admittedly, I have never been a big fan of Zutara as a ship, so I have not consumed a lot of content for it. At first it was because I preferred Kataang, and then it was because… well, a lot of reasons, really.

First off, let's state the obvious. Zuko is a mess. And we love him for it, he's my favorite character in the show, and I would do absolutely anything for him. But let's be honest: he's not in a good place for a relationship, and especially not with someone like Katara, who also has a lot on her plate.

Because of the fandom's general attitude towards both of these characters, between the massive woobification of Zuko and the outrageous misogyny towards Katara, Zutara to me feels like the kind of ship where people would heavily focus on Zuko, and downplay or even outright ignore Katara’s trauma.

And I feel like they do this in order to slot her into the role of the perfect caretaker, an endless source of comfort and compassion and understanding and forgiveness without ever taking the time to address the toll that it WOULD have on Katara. 

ATLA has a wide range of strong female characters, so there's a bit of ridicule all around especially around Azula, but Katara takes the brunt of it.

From people calling her annoying for talking about her trauma during sensitive moments, to others accusing her of being a Mary Sue. And she is more traditionally feminine than a lot of the other female characters in the show, most notably Toph, which makes people quick to write her off and say "oh she's the mom of the group" and not look any further.

Katara’s issues are often overlooked by the fandom as a whole, which makes me think that a lot of people who ship zutara are probably only in it because they want Zuko to have someone he can constantly vent to. Which like- I get? But it can be frustrating to see how Katara's problems are treated as irrelevant.  

There are probably exceptions to this, of course. There are always exceptions. But what I’ve witnessed has permanently scared me away from the ship. 

And don’t get me wrong, I love a good good girl/boy x bad girl/boy, blue-red coded, enemies to lovers ship. Some of my favorite ships have sprouted from that exact formula. But at the same time, Zutara to me feels like the most overdone, basic, and just generally bland ways to do that. 

Which makes no sense. By all accounts, they should be really interesting together, but they aren’t because uh, good girl x bad boy? THAT’S NOT WHAT THEIR DYNAMIC IS?

Zuko is an intense, broody, angsty source of constant drama with a mysterious past. But he also has a secretly dorky side that only ever comes out when he’s well and truly comfortable. And Katara is a caring, compassionate, and brave young woman. But she’s also a rage fueled, grudge holding powerhouse who never forgets a face. 

Writers seem to forget that they can, in fact, be both.

It’s the dichotomy of their individual characterizations that make them so interesting. And if a zutara shipper actually takes the time to address that, acknowledges BOTH of their issues, and puts equal amounts of effort into presenting both of the characters? Then YEAH, I could TOTALLY get behind that.

But what I have seen time and time again in fandom spaces is that really complex characters like Katara and Zuko get shoved together, and then both of them are watered down to caricatures of who they’re supposed to be. 

Now, again, this is all a hundred percent my opinion. If you disagree, that’s completely valid, and I get it. I really do understand why people like these ships so much, and I am most certainly not judging anyone for shipping them.

But do not try to start drama in the notes, or start drama with me personally. I will not get drawn into it, I will block you and move on and the only thing you will have accomplished is making yourself look like an asshole to a complete stranger on the internet.

Anyway thanks for coming to my TED talk. This took me nearly twenty minutes of nonstop writing to hash out lol. 

#atla #avatar the last airbender #zutara neg #kataang neg #zutara critical #kataang critical #shipping discourse #shipping drama #discourse

[mokkamicci]

Kataang vs Zutara: a small chat

So most of you who follow my blog on here will know that much of the content that I reblog and post are Miraculous-related. But I also post ATLA and Zutara content occasionally. I am a massive Zutara fan and I’m here to talk about something that I’ve noticed within the ship wars between Zutara and Kataang.

So starting off, while Zutara fans criticise the Kataang ship wiith facts and logic, sometimes I feel like some of these people go a little too far with their criticism, claiming that Kataang is misogynistc, makes Katara out to be some kind of trophy for Aang and is just all around nothing more than an unbalanced relationship. Obviously they’re not wrong, but sometimes they forget that Aang is just a kid, just like Katara is. Relationships at that age aren’t gonna be the healthiest because they’re going through a developmental phase at that time (aka puberty). You could argue the same thing could happen if Zutara became canon instead, because they’re both teenagers. Not to mention Zuko and Katara can both be hot headed at times. Combine that with hormones and growing into young adulthood... yeah it’s not exactly a fun time.

I also think that Zutarans often end up mischaracterising Aang completely in order to justify their arguments to the point where it’s barely recognisable from the canon Aang. Like the way some people talk about him, it’s almost as if they make him out to be like some kind of incel. Y’all are really jumping through a lot of hoops to make that kind of conclusion. This is almost like the time Adrien/Chat Noir salters in the Miraculous fandom called Chat Noir a sexual harasser. It’s really funny the way they think.

Another toxic trait they apply to Aang is him being an evil abuser who stifles Katara’s freedom and who also has his feelings coddled by her. The fact that he is selfish and puts his own comfort and feelings over her own has somehow become fuel to harshly criticise Aang. Like he is 12! Of course he’s gonna be a little selfish and immature! I don’t think his not-so-likable character traits justify belittling his relationship with Katara.

I don’t think it necessarily helps when Zutara fans stoop to the level of Kataang fans. I understand Zutara fans’ frustrations, because many Zutara blogs have expressed that they’ve been mocked and belittled the most, by both Kataang fans and even the show’s creators themselves. It only seems fair that Zutara fans get a little payback to treat Kataang fans the way the former have been treated. But I also think by doing this, it’s created an even bigger divide between the two. What happened to “ship and let ship”?

DISCLAIMER: I’m not trying to discredit Zutara, I LOVE Zutara with my whole being. I just think that when it comes to ship wars, people should be a bit nicer to each other rather than making them feel bad about the couple they choose to ship in the show. I’m also not very fond of Kataang either, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to absolutely crucify someone just because they happen to prefer that ship over Zutara. I honestly don’t think Kataang deserves the amount of hate it’s gotten recently. In fact, before I fully got into the ATLA fandom, I used to prefer Kataang over Zutara myself. I thought it was a nice wholesome ship. While my opinion on this ship has changed, I still think there are some parts of it that are cute based on canon moments in the show.

I’m probably gonna get some hate for this, and you know what, I’ll accept it. I’ll listen to what everyone has to say.

#atla #zutara

[innocentimouto]

Did you first watch atla as an adult?

No, I saw it as a kid, and I'm really grateful for that. If not, I'd always wonder whether I would have the same opinions as the rest of the fandom or have made my own.

I never interacted with the fandom as a kid, so I had no idea about ships or who were the most popular characters.

1) I did not like Zuko. I was shocked by how popular he was and tried to read some fics because. There were so many, so I was probably missing something right?

Literally stayed away from Avatar for years because of the Zuko fics.

2) I loved Iroh. I didn’t see all the episodes, so I never saw his scene with June when I was a kid. But I do remember not liking that he didn’t fight much at the end of the war.

3)  I didn’t think Azula was a monster. I didn’t even hate her. She was just too good a villain that I would get nervous every time she showed up. Her ending confused me so much as a kid, and I’d avoid watching it or go numb (something I did a lot when I didn’t like what I was experiencing) whenever that episode showed up.

4)  I was totally normal about "Jet". Totally. It's not like I got anxious and sad every time I saw Jet get arrested and brainwashed. Or that I was in denial about my brother telling me he died because I never saw "Lake Laogai".

Anyway I had great taste---

5)  I hated romance, and I hated "The Play" the most. I didn't realize it was propaganda and any shipping moments it had annoyed me. I hated all romantic moments in general.

When I first joined the atla fandom, it became very clear people assumed you either shipped zutara or kataang. :) You fools, I ship Jetara. Clearly I have superior taste

6) This is also why “The Beach” was weird to me. Azula trying to charm Chan (I think that’s his name)? No idea what was going on.

All 4 of them trashing the house? In my mind, this was what all teenagers did. I didn’t like it, but I assumed that was because I wasn’t a teenager and if I wasn’t careful I’d end up being a bad person to people once I got older and it would be acceptable XD

But anyway, I appreciate watching it as a kid. I remember when Aang faced Bumi and how seeing the candy grow on Sokka and Katara actually terrified me. But Bumi was still funny to me as a kid, so I never hated him.

Even though he essentially did what that ek general did.

Some episodes or scenes may seem boring as an adult, but to a kid they were enjoyable and seeing as atla was meant for kids, it helps me to be less critical of some of the writing.

#atla #asks

[roobylavender]

i was going thru old posts & found where you said you only like zootara in the specific context of like... zuko dissolving the monarchy + devoting himself to reparations & it's an unrequited love think and lost my mind bc it was exactly what i felt but had never seen anyone say! i HATE any kind of firelady katara content but still find zootara’s dynamic fascinating. anyways from this i was wondering on if you had wider thoughts on katara, on both how she exists in canon and anything you'd change

i think re-watching avatar when they dropped it on netflix a few years ago was eye-opening for me in a lot of ways like sooo many of my opinions radically changed and not even necessarily in a way where it was an outright polarized switch but more like.. added depth to how i felt. which makes sense bc i mean i was seven years old when i watched the show and i'm twenty five now lmao. but with katara i kind of found myself on the fence between the two camps that were so vehement about justifying why katara worked better with either boy that i think they more or less forgot about her. like i don't entirely disagree with zootara shippers that katara's role being so diminished in post-canon was irritating but at the same time that's not something it makes sense to blame kataang being canon on. kataang is probably one of the most obv ships ever in retrospect like the buildup was so palpably there and katara was never going to choose anyone else but aang. but i also think it can be admitted that her post-canon storylines were just.. super boring? and that it had to do a lot with bryke being resistant to radicalism in their material in general. keeping the gaang together or taking them on group adventures for marketability purposes was obv impt but i feel like katara was one of the members who like really needed to do her own thing after the war was over. like there were so many times in the series where it seemed like she was having her moment to shine and there would always be some caveat or wedge to throw so she could move on with the gaang and for central narrative purposes i get that but why did that have to apply to whatever she did after (also this doesn't even get into the fact that bryke's liberal politics affected her individual storylines so much like the jet and hama stuff. very bad vibes). like i already said i think kataang was pretty much inevitable and the build up in seasons one and two and even the confusion of feelings between them at the start of season three were great but i also don't think they needed to be in a relationship by the end of the series personally like it felt so rushed and honestly very corny. like they're thirteen and fourteen years old they have so much time. i like the gaang a lot as a concept but the overwhelming feeling i was left with when the series was over was that the fallout of the war would be so significant it wouldn't realistically make sense to have them all in one place like there are so many things each of them would need or want to do. and ig bryke kinda acknowledged that like the gaang did have some individual gigs. but it all felt so tame. katara was potentially the most radical member of the gaang i really do not think she would have ended the war being in some honeymoon phase she would have been ready to get working on uprooting all of the bad and where they'd found it and aggressively reconstructing the society she worked so hard to try to save. but also on the most simplest note i could leave here i genuinely think every avatar character needed therapy / soul searching more than they did romance by the end of the series so ig this is my very roundabout way of saying that..

#this is so terribly organized i feel like i would have been more coherent had my rewatch been a couple years ago like #my memory is so shoddy atp ajkfjgsldfhgf #outbox