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fanfic-lover-girl · 7 months

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Anti Tagging is a Broken System

So there was this anti Zutara post that I saw a while ago that was tagged as both 'anti zutara' and 'zutara'. As you can imagine, zutara bloggers were mad and the OP claimed they tagged the post as 'zutara' as payback for zutara fans bashing kataang in the 'kataang' tag.

There was also a jedi critical post that was considered to be insulting to someone's religion or culture or some other nonsense. The person asked (**demanded**), the post be tagged as 'anti jedi' because seeing it in the 'jedi order' tag was causing real-world harm.

It confirmed my belief that the tagging system is severely broken and lacking.

These are two issues at play that I notice:

Villain vs Hero Double Standard

What's interesting is that this issue is mainly relevant for protagonists. If I want to bash Ozai, Palpatine or Joker on Tumblr, I don't have to tag my posts as anti. Maybe their fans would prefer it but we all know that these men are villains and the lowest scum in media. It's not bashing - it's the cold hard truth.

So why is it that my calling Ozai a bad father is not Ozai bashing, but me calling Aang a bad father is Aang bashing?? Why the double standards?? Sure, the hero will likely be more sympathetic because we are meant to root for them. But at the end of the day, just like Ozai, Aang played favourites and this left scars on his kids even in their fifties. If you are an Aang fan you can try to justify it, but his actions still hurt his kids no matter how you spin it.

What Does 'Anti' Even Mean??

There are too many ways to be anti character, anti ship etc which makes things murky.

Let's use Kataang as an example. Are you anti Kataang because you objectively looked at the ATLA show and you think how it is presented makes it a bad ship? Are you anti KA because you genuinely like the ship but you think it was not developed properly or did not go the way you thought best? Are you anti KA because you are just emotionally repulsed for whatever reason even though canon may give you reasons to support it? Are you anti KA just because it may be popular to be so in your circle?

That's the problem. Theoretically, the first two scenarios could be classified under the general 'kataang' tag. Because people who hold those opinions are not just bashing it for no reason but have objective truths that they have observed about the ship. Saying that Aang kissed Katara without her consent is an objective truth. Why should that be labelled as 'anti kataang'? It's the truth about the ship.

How would I address this?

The general tag should not be treated as a safe space. If you want a safe space, stick to a 'pro' or 'anti' tag. The general tag should be treated like a neutral zone where everything is laid on the table for debate and discourse. So if I browse the Jedi Order tag, I should see metas about cool Jedi powers and master-padawan relationships but also metas about the separation of families and the social harm it causes kids.

People need to stop being babies and grow up. If someone posts a critical meta about the Jedi order, it does not mean they are attacking whatever religion you have or calling for genocide in real life. Do you know how much witchcraft, paganism, atheism and other kinds of Christian bashing posts I see in the Christianity tag?? If you don't like something, just scroll past it like a big kid. Don't send death or rape threats to someone if you disagree with them.

I think if someone does not have substantial or accurate reasons for hating something, they should stick to the anti tag and avoid the general tag.

What do others think?? Tagging is hard because it's up to the discretion of the poster but I hope my arguments here made sense.

@caripr94

@tragicfantasy-girl

@sokkastyles

@the-badger-mole

#tumblr discourse #fandom etiquette #tagging #shipping discourse #character discussion #atla aang #aang vs ozai #character bashing #atla #anti tagging #jedi order #jedi order critical #toxic fandom #star wars discourse #star wars #atla discourse #anti kataang

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grimalkinmessor · 5 months

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I made a little post complaining about the lack of a Light Bashing tag, and now the time has come for me to expand on what exactly counts as bashing! :D

Bashing is described as "villainizing a character, and representing them without any redeeming qualities", and "...demonizing a character, referring to them with derogatory terms, or making them the subject of deathfics or spitefics". Deathfics aren't so common for Light (L Bashing is more common in those, though I have seen Light Bashing in deathfics centered around L) but I think spitefics fit very nicely with some of the ones I've seen.

Generally bashing is a negative deviation from the original character's personality by either ONLY representing their flaws, EXAGGERATING their flaws, or making up NEW flaws.

In Light's case, this is done by presenting him as someone stupid, incompetent, heartless, cowardly, arrogant, and/or sadistic. And yes, given that Light is a villain, arrogant and cowardly do describe his character—TO AN EXTENT. The representation of these traits only becomes bashing when they're pointed out repeatedly and/or exaggerated. (When I say repeatedly I mean it becomes an underlying theme in the story rather than a single part of it, harped on rather than just mentioned).

Now, where I think a lot of people get tripped up is this: Light's looks do not count as a redeeming quality. If your story's stance on him is "he's evil and stupid and I hate him but he's hot so it's okay"—that still counts as bashing.

In fact, even if you DO feature his good qualities in your story, if the bad outweighs the good then that would count as bashing.

Now, where this gets muddied up is, again, the fact that Light is a villain. "But Grim," you say. "How am I supposed to write Light authentically if I can't write him doing bad things?" You can write him doing bad things! You can write him being evil and awful! In fact I encourage it!

What I'm saying isn't that you should morally whitewash Light—I'm saying that bashing is an ignorance of nuance in a negative direction. Writing Light killing people isn't bashing. Writing Light killing people for no reason or for fun is bashing. Writing Light being an absent lover isn't bashing. Writing Light being an abusive lover is bashing. Bashing is, again, a discernible deviation from the known character in a way that makes them worse than they are, or refers to them in a derogatory manner.

"Well Light IS that awful, he SHOULD be demonized! Light SHOULD be referred to in a derogatory manner!" <- this is ignoring character nuance. If you write your fics like this, I politely ask that you tag them as Light Bashing (preferably as Yagami Light Bashing or Light Yagami Bashing, given that there's already a tag for light bashing that isn't Death Note related) because this counts.

And you should do this for every character in your story!! Maybe you enjoy Light, maybe you do enjoy the nuance of his character—you might still ignore L's. Or Misa's. Or Matsuda's. Or Mikami's. Or Near's. Or Mello's. Or a hundred other characters that I haven't mentioned. Don't think I haven't seen just as many fics that ought to be tagged as Soichiro Yagami Bashing out there too 🫵

Bashing is not inherently bad. A lot of people like those sorts of fics, especially when they hate the same characters you do. But the problem the DN fandom seems to have is UNTAGGED bashing. There are several tags that haven't been implemented that honestly should be, and I think it's just because the Death Note fandom is so old. It comes from before the tagging system, from before AO3 was even a thing. Times where authors had to toss up a warning in parentheses right before the smut started 😅

But we DO have a tag system now—and a very good one. I'm asking people to pretty please use it. Help people that hate the same characters you do find your fics. Help people that love those same characters avoid them. It's only polite 💖

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flowerchildasriel · 1 year

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something I love to see is like. How fandoms treat villains differently and I think you can really see it in miraculous ladybug and the villains of Lila vs Hawkmoth

(cw HP) like it’s analogous to Harry Potter and how the fandom treats the villains of Umbridge and Voldemort. I’ve seen others say that Voldemort is such a far away and cartoony evil that it’s hard to relate to and feel threatened by… but Umbridge? She is every single teacher that hurt us, the uncaring and actively malicious authority figure in our school or work life, and the bigotry in the education system and legal system given a face. So she represents a much more close evil than the end of book villain, which is why fandom fixates on her and projects everything on here

And that’s what I think is happening with Lila in salt fics. Why she’s so demonized in comparison to Hawkmoth in those fics. (This is not to relate it to the canon because the canon isn’t supposed to be projection fuel) but really, most of us aren’t haunted by a distant evil man in a tower, we’re just not going to relate to that part. But most people have had that middle school bully who seemed to have it out for us. We’ve had friends with lying sides who made rumors about us or hurt us with fake sweet words, and Lila is just a stand in for everyone that did those things. We can project all of our anger and hurt on her, making her a demon because that’s how we felt about our bullies. And genuinely, no one really got justice or closure. Zero tolerance policy hurt the bullied kids just as much as the bullies, if not more in how it never really put a stop to bullying.

Maybe that’s why Lila can be so over the top in fics, her comeuppance so grand, and Marinette so willing and able to cut ties with toxic friendships. It’s wish fulfillment. We wish our bullies got what was coming to them, we wish we were able to walk away from things that we once loved but now was hurting us.

Idk, I just love it.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #miraculous ladybug salt #mlb #mlb salt #ml salt #salt fic #Lila salt #saltfic #character bashing #lila bashing #desi.txt #harry potter

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screamingpandas1452 · 2 years

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I hate when people bash my comfort characters. Like, how dare you disrespect my children?

#percy weasley #stan pines #mabel pines #hermione granger #ron weasley #sirius black #annabeth chase #jason grace #steve rogers #tony stark #wanda maximoff #and many more #character bashing #ford pines

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aromanticduck · 4 months

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The only thing worse than someone hating on a character you love is someone hating on a character you also hate, but for such absolutely bullshit nonsense reasons that you feel compelled to defend them. This character. That you hate.

#fandom #character bashing #sometimes the bullshit reasons are bigotry (e.g. misogyny or racism) but just as often it's simply a gross misunderstanding of the story #either way it fucking sucks #like no you're wrong about X making them a bad character - they're bad because of *Y*#organic home grown content #ALSO: for those of you who piss on the poor no i don't believe this is the actual worst thing in the world get a grip

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regheart · 2 months

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i hate character bashing in fanfiction so much it's nothing but a lazy excuse to have a scape goat for everything antagonizing and outright bad reading and writing skills

having characters (even the ones you don't like) as full flashed elements of the narrative is much more interesting and compelling to the reader, not to mention it makes more sense when there's actual motivation or contradiction in the way your antagonist thinks and acts

(one minute of silence for all of the ron weasley bashing tags that live alongside good draco malfoy tag and so on) (another minute for the marauders fics that completely erase peter and snape because the author is lazy) (dumbledore bashing and yknow what maybe voldemort isn't as bad as we think but it's also a dark harry au so he is supposed to be as bad as we think) (anti molly but the reasoning is a conspiracy that makes less sense than death eater hagrid)

#hp fandom #on fandom #on fanfiction #character bashing #peter pettigrew #severus snape #ron weasley #molly weasley #albus dumbledore

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elumish · 1 year

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On character bashing and the women it hits.

#elumish writes #unacademic #substack #fandom #character bashing

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murachinchi · 8 months

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I know what your OTP is but do you have any thoughts on the Gyokko x Hantengu ship that came out of Kimetsu Gauken?

hahahaaaha :)

imma put this under readmore in case this post showed up on their tag..

(spoiler i dont like him 😔)

and ill be using emojis when referring Gyo just in case

the ship has been around even before the anime and ive never like it?? even before im into hantan i just dont like it.. not because of the ship it self i just dont like🏺as a whole 😭😭😭 idk he's just annoying to see 😭😭 so i tried to just ignore their existence..

but recently someone fixed my hantan art on twitter and changed it to 🏺👺 and idk i just loathe the ship now. im all good if u wanna talk shit abot my crackship but like dont take my art and "fix" it??? just make a new 🏺👺 art. i tried to not bash ppl's ship except with a close friend so this will be the only post i talk about it openly. except hating on🏺 😈😈😈 jk

as for 🏺 i tried to add him in some of my AUs so i don't hate him so much.. he's pretty important in my HanTan swap AU. beside being Han's swordsmith he is Han's only close friend but i dont plan on putting any romantic stuff between them.. ever..

also i need someone to make Tan jealous 😈😈😈😈 im sorry am weak for jealous trope 😔😔 and thinking about demon Tan being jealous is 🥺🥺🥺🥺 also its a funny scenario when 🏺 found out Tan used to be jealous of him and 🏺's like "lmao keep ur ugly ass oldman i dont want him"

#ask #character bashing #i guess #ship hate

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spite-and-waffles · 2 years

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I will not be taking questions at this time. Most annoying mfers in the fandom. Touching grass isn't enough, y'all need to faceplant into a hedge.

#Tim Drake #Stan culture #Character bashing #fandom discourse #fandom wank #Batfamily #Dick Grayson #Jason Todd #Stephanie Brown #Cassandra Cain #Damian Wayne #Life is really rough when you adore every one of the precious babies #why can't y'all take your frustrations out on Bruce #he's the actual grown-ass adult man responsible for them #but no. Good Dad Bruce is the only fanon y'all will let each other have #also what is the use of blocking people if you keep seeing them in reblogs #spite waffle #fandom wankery

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gritsandbrits · 1 year

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The Reason You Suck Speech ~ Sentinel Prime Edition.

After being fed up with the way Optimus Prime gets treated by his so-called friend, GritsandBrits finally reads Sentinel the riot act. Sentinel Prime Bashing, Optimus Defense Club. Warning for any Sentinel stans this is very negative towards him and tbh he needed that.

Tv Tropes: Someone delivers a speech to another character on all the reasons why that other character sucks or is a horrible person. There are several contexts in which this can happen.

In this context, it's giving 10yo me the chance to finally say what she wanted to say about Sentinel. He may have gotten off easy in canon but we aren't in canon are we?

Okay. I have had enough of you badmouthing Optimus! Now I'm not saying he's perfect - who gives a damn! Perfection is boring and the way I see it trying to achieve it only leads to more problems! And I have never seen a more clear example than you Sentinel Prime! You like to rub everyone else's failures in their faces yet do nothing to help them grow. You strut around like Primus's given gift to the universe expecting people to like you yet barely have a good word to say about anyone. Even the few bots who do give a damn about you you treat with contempt.

The show may have let you off the hook then but it's been over for twelve years now and nothing is holding me back from calling you out. Even years later I'm still mad no one actually called out you for being an asshole, save for that one time Optimus told you to take your attitude and stuff it. That part made me laugh. And deserved.

You went around making everyone feel bad about themselves. You nearly put your own team in danger when you bribed Decepticons, said an ageist statement towards your boss In the Almanac, and would've endangered both planets has that fourth season been made! All the hurt you caused you got away with it... Not this time! Nobody ever talked to you like that? Good. Perk up those antennae I got more.

You are part of one of the most powerful defenders in the universe. You are a candidate for what is the most powerful position on your planet. You're like almost royalty to your people yet here you are acting like you part of a school clique talking shit about people behind their backs. Ever since you came to earth you been carping and sniping at Optimus more than usual. For what? Because he's a college dropout? Or is it because he made something of himself with being a dropout and without you! Him being happy ticks you off, so you gotta cling on to what little control you have left by undermining his work. Bad enough he had to drop his things to bail you out and having to waste precious time and energy foolin' up with you!

His job was to maintain the space bridges not be your personal lapdog! Just because he's a janitor doesn't give you the right to make messes for him on purpose. It's basic courtesy. Then again, you wouldn't understand courtesy if it hit you in the chin!

It's not just the way you treat Optimus it's also how you treat everyone else. You make fun of Bee and Bulkhead, they told me about how you were at boot camp by the way. You pick on Jazz and the Twins for expressing interest in our planet. You even had the gall to insult Prowl's memory when he was the one who gave his life to save Earth AND your world! If not for him you wouldn't be here now bullying the way you do.

Yeah I said it! You're a bully! A prime bully who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. Who likes to make everyone else miserable! Who bullied his way into positions of power! We're all happy and content with our lives with all its faults and follies and fun and freakiness. Even you with your lack of courtesy, we still accept you, so why can't you accept us? Do you have to destroy everyone to make your life worthwhile? The worse part is you don't own up or express remorse. Rather, you blame other people for suffering the consequences of YOUR actions!

You complained about Optimus lying to you about Miss Spider, well what about the other times he told you the truth? When he warned you about the Decepticons' presence on Earth, or Wasp's innocence, or organics not being a threat, all you said was: you're lying, I don't believe you, you're just a dropout, arrest them all! Not a 'let's settle down and figure this out together', nope! Just straight up threatened them with prison! He tries to be honest with you but you refuse to hear him out!

You complain about a lack of communication but how can we when you go around insulting everyone! The rare times you do speak positively it always come out so backhanded, like you have to point out something negative no matter how inconsequential it is. Everyone's forced to walk on eggshells around you. Why? Because we know you got a negative remark loaded on your tongue. That and you like to brag. Loose lips sink ships as they say.

And back on lying, honey he never lied to you. If anything he was protecting you! He didn't want to hurt the both of you so he had to make a hard decision at the cost of his own wellbeing. When you did learn the truth, instead showing the poor thing a bit of compassion, you tell her that she was better off dead! What is that to say about someone? Especially someone who was your girlfriend?

She probably didn't have much of a choice, and you know good and well how slick Megatron is! But besides that, you were hurt yes, but you have the time to seek closure. Instead you denied your ex a chance to heal from her traumas. You continue using Optimus's own trauma against him.

You plot and scheme to further your ambitions not caring who gets hurt. You try to inflict trauma on every organic on this Earth. Tell me, are we really a threat? Or are you just venting your anger over not being told about Blackarachnia? Given your past behavior I would not be surprised if it ends up being the latter.

That's another thing every time you faced with a difficult situation you immediately lash out. Optimus has been your biggest victim. When it's not dumping your the responsibility on him, it's sneering or picking on him. You ever stopped to think how Optimus might've felt? The guilt he feels over not saving her? The fear that someone could hurt her, or that she might hurt innocent beings. How he has to shoulder not just his own grief but yours as well. How he has to deal with your hatred.

You say you don't haye him yet that doesn't stop you from treating him like a tool. Do you ask him how he feels? Did you offer him comfort in his time of need? Or are you the only one ever allowed to feel sad? Maybe you can learn his side of the story if you bothered to give him a chance! You claim it's too late for apologies but the thing is, that's not a reason for you treating everyone like junk. When others make mistakes they at least try to fix them, or move on and take steps to do better in the future. Even if it's not verbal, there's other ways to apologize and grow.

You could've worked with Detroit. You could stop calling Optimus that awful name. You could've open you heart - excuse me - your SPARK to others and learn about our planet. Sure you can't change the past but that don't mean you can work on yourself now. Everyone even in the fandom been nothing but patient and kind to you, and you returned it with spite. You can't fathom being happy with yourself so you hafta drag everyone down with you.

But yet Despite all the garbage you hurl at Optimus you know he never spoke badly about you? Sure an exasperated sigh here and there but never slander. He never went out of his way to hurt your career, hell he gave up his future for you! Yet you still treat him like a threat to the point of attacking his teammates to get at him. All the harm you've inflicted on him, he still helps you out! He could've left you at the mercy of Headmaster but helped you get your body back. He could've let you get killed or hurt but he comes to your aid like a real friend should. He saw something worth salvaging.

Are you willing to toss all that away for temporary catharsis?

You let one tragic mistake sour your worldview so you project that onto others. They make a mistake you don't give them grace. You don't give it yourself. You expect everyone else to think and act exactly like you, selfish and mean, yet you see the opposite. Bee and Bulkhead try new things and has hobbies. Jazz plays our music, Ratchet studies our medicine, Prowl loved our wildlife, and Optimus loves everyone. Even you, you hateful self-centered jerk. He cares so much about you though I can't see what it is that makes you worth saving.

Every day they go out to help the city not expecting to be rewarded or even thanked, but because it's the right thing to do. Meanwhile you're just standing around huffing and puffing, refusing to lend a hand. Stubbornly clinging on to that cynical mindset that being flawed is inherently evil and that nobody can be good. We fought things bigger than you, yet you treat us like a bunch of idiots who don't know anything no it's you who don't know anything! But even those aren't a good enough reason to carry on acting like that.

Your whole life has been challenged, and now that everyone seen you for the sad, scared soul you truly are, they stopped entertaining you. You lied to yourself, you're stuck with that lie and nobody is around for you to dump your frustrations on. You can't keep living off lies you know. You can't force everyone else to live in them either.

Now I know what I just said won't get you to change your mind and honestly, I've stopped waiting for you to have an epiphany a long time ago. It's clear you're content with the path you're going down but you will have to walk it alone. The rest of us will continue to enjoy ourselves. We'll love our flaws and freaky grossness. You? You be all alone with only your crown for company. It's sad it has to be that way. But I hope you take it as the time to reflect on the choices you've made and will make. That when you do eventually become the Primer Prime, those choices had better be worth it.

#transformers animated #fanfiction #tfa #character bashing #sentinel prime bashing #optimus prime defense club!#tw long post #transformers #tfa fanfic #rant #basically EVERYTHING i wanted to say to this dude for 17 years #fuck sentinel #he really did not deserve Optimus; and optimus deserved better #tropes #tv tropes #the reason you suck speech #bashfic #self insert

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