I think fans want Jason to be a good person or be becoming one. To have a character that is well meaning and compassionate but decided murder is ok and to stand against main heroes who’s beliefs and actions go against the people he cares about and wants in his life. It’s confusing for people. People want their fav characters to be happy. But Jason can’t have his family’s support and follow his moral code. He’s cares about people and Gotham, and he’s an asshole who kills. It’s messy. It’s not black and white. I don’t even think Jason cares about being a good person or in the right anymore. I think he cares about what will save the most people instead.
Oh my goodness gracious I’ve been bamboozled
Batman’s definition of Good is not synonymous with absolute good/right no matter how much dc insists it is. Torture, battery/assault, surveillance, those are all condemnable actions too. I won’t get into the exhausting and frankly dumb debate of comic book morality wrt killing because I’ve already reblogged plenty of posts from other people who explained my thoughts on the matter far better than I ever have the patience to sit down and articulate. I also just think the notion that there’s something to be done about fictional characters who kill nazis and senseless murderers is stupid. Jason’s point is that the “main” heroes’ sanitized definition of right has its unaddressed holes and flaws which ultimately result in more preventable fatalities, and that he’ll work to correct those missing spots.
He doesn’t not care about doing what’s right. What he doesn’t care about (at least during his Winick characterization) is whether Batman thinks he’s right or wrong, because he sees the flaws in Batman’s methodology (and since he has a mind of his own). Batman’s methods alone cannot address Arkham’s revolving door and the rogues that come and go through those doors who have no intention (or capability from the doylist pov) of ever changing or undergoing redemption. Jason knows that he’s minimizing the number of preventable deaths by killing his targets, typically Characters Who Simply Do Fucked Up Shit Just Because, Why The Fuck Not?
Secondly, Jason is compassionate … to a fault. That was his fatal flaw. If he wasn’t so hell-bent on saving his potential birth mother he just met from that bomb despite everything she did to him prior, he could have protected himself instead, however slim his odds of survival were. What about his relationship with his other parents? He was a caregiver during his early childhood years for Catherine, until her death. Even mature adults who are financially stable find being a caregiver to a dying parent to be extremely burdensome on their bodies and minds, but he never complained about it or resented Catherine for being unable to care for him. Despite how none of his parents have really been what he needed them to be, he doesn’t blame them for their failings, and even continues to think highly of them (Bruce included).
And post-death? Enter Lost Days. Despite being dead set on plotting his revenge on Bruce, he constantly sidelines this in order to save other victims who are helpless like he once was. His own anger, trauma, and mission don’t remain his priority. (Sound familiar? Something something my own trauma above my son’s, mission above all else, etc.). Why would he waste precious time and risk his own life to do this if he wasn’t empathetic towards these victims or didn’t care about doing the right thing. He is simultaneously horribly traumatized and full of rage, and also incapable of ignoring what’s happening to victims around him (even as he claims that it’s indeed not his priority). And in that same vein, the entire premise of his rebirth outlaws run was that he doesn’t care if the public views him as a villain, an outlaw, so long as he can protect Gotham. And anyway where is this portrayal of him not caring about being in the right anymore. Almost every modern Jason story is about him grappling with where he stands with Bruce/Batman. During the early 2000s was probably the last time he did not care (hello, tentatodd??).
Jason has very evidently been portrayed as a kind and compassionate character. He is also simultaneously a calculated killer who doesn’t hesitate to kill when he deems necessary, and does so without remorse. It’s called being a Complex Character With An Edge™ that as you said, people so often claim to love. However when he fulfills that latter part, that seems to upset people because “killing bad”, and they then try to shave off and round out all his edges and claim he shouldn’t be that angry. In that case I guess you should just stick to liking traditional one-dimensional characters instead of claiming to like Jason but then encouraging his character assassination attempt by dc. Lol.
Lastly, who said anything about the batfam making Jason happy? Just because he’s written nowadays to want acceptance from Bruce (a shoddy attempt at forcing a non-existent nuclear batfamily), doesn’t mean that it’s a sound decision or that it does his character justice. I certainly don’t empathize with the idea that Jason needs the family’s approval or acceptance to be happy. (And anyway he has enough outlets for angst and pain aside from the batfam hello explore his other sources of trauma and do more deep dives into how he thinks when he’s alone). I don’t want them to magically make up and become one big happy family. This is not disney Lol. Besides, there are plenty of stories from dc that have that type of “wholesome” (hate that word utilization) characterization for Jason (Li’l Gotham, Tiny Titans, wfa, and even new stuff like the brave and the bold mini) and that is sufficient imo. Jason fans who are invested in the character deserve accurate, nuanced characterization and well-written stories, whether they be from his robin days (e.g., Batman: The Cult) or as red hood.
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The Slope by @megatron-fucks provides a great scene where Pharma gets to blow up on Ratchet about how he lost everything good in his life and faced a fate worse than death so Ratchet has no right to judge him.
But you know what else I really want to see and might write myself?
I want a post-Delphi scene where Pharma gets to verbally rip Ratchet apart about how he disowned Pharma and is acting as if the 'new Pharma' is a completely different person, but in reality Ratchet is just desperate to convince himself that Pharma was always a bad apple and the "best friend" Ratchet knew was either a lie or a person who's "died." Basically Pharma getting to lambast Ratchet about how 'the person he used to be' isn't some separate entity, that the old Pharma LITERALLY IS HIM and it's Ratchet who's a piece of shit for being unable to reconcile that Pharma could be his former best friend and also the monster he ended up becoming.
Mostly in regards to the aspect of canon where despite being former best friends, Ratchet made basically zero efforts to have any sympathy for Pharma or extend help/mercy to him and mostly used their former friendship to prey on Pharma's insecurities to manipulate him into doing what he wanted.
Of course it's a narration by Pharma so it might not be 100% correct or unbiased, but like. I just desperately crave some sort of resolution between Ratchet and Pharma. Or if not a resolution, at least some catharsis where Pharma gets to unload and Ratchet acknowledges he was a bastard.
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Jean Valjean had only two thoughts: to hide his name and sanctify his life & escape from men and return to God
but he would sacrifice the first for the second, his safety for his virtue
he could not fire Javert because he would sacrifice his virtue if he fired Javert in that moment. Because Javert was actually right (despite being completely fooled at that time), and Javert was dangerous, and Valjean could make him go, but he couldn't because it wouldn't be right.
and that's literally it imho. Valjean as Madeleine acts with and around Javert (or anyone, really, Javert isn't special, Madeleine doesn't treat him any different than others) in a way that doesn't sacrifice his virtue. He will sacrifice his safety (i.e. Fauchelevent) but not his virtue
You can also see it in this imho:
“Javert, you are a man of honor, and I esteem you. You exaggerate your fault. Moreover, this is [another] offence which concerns me. Javert, you deserve promotion instead of degradation. I wish you to retain your post.” [Hapgood, but I added "another" since it's missing]
He can't punish Javert for being right. He alludes back to Fantine spitting on him. "Madeleine", not anyone or anything else, was wronged and he chose not to punish in both cases.
He might not like Javert; Javert has been troubling him, following him, he's been a danger to him (for almost 5 years), but he wouldn't sacrifice his virtue for Javert, and firing Javert would do that imho (and at that time, it would "soil Madeleine")
Javert, you deserve promotion instead of degradation. = is such a good irony, but it probably went over Javert's head completely. But moreover, that line literally makes no sense in context unless you consider "you are actually right" (and you don't know it; ironic, isn't it?)
---
That's why I like Javert's line from LM 2000 (which might just be taken from somewhere from the book anyway) that goes: [Valjean] goes against order, against law, and against his own interests.
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(before the post starts: to everyone who follows me for stranger things i’m sorry you have to deal with my random adventures into other fandoms — this is for the marauders fandom so if you don’t care about that feel free to scroll 💞 and also as always fuck jkr)
me: this fic is going to be so fucking full of angst and jealousy and toxicity with rosekiller endgame
also me:
It’s silent for a moment— Barty convinced the Gryffindor’s eyes could bore into his soul if he let him stare long enough. “You’ve never needed to simply feel something, Potter?”
-
[Barty] lowered his voice, a hand almost absently reaching up to the other boy’s face. His middle finger ran down his jawline. “What does [Regulus] see in you?”
“What-?”
“He’s never looked at me the way he looks at you. What are you doing that I wasn’t?”
-
“I can move. Do you want-“
“No, stay.” James laid back down. It was dark, but Barty reached up anyway. His hand started in James’ hair then ran down to his cheek. His middle finger traced his jaw again— like it had that night on the tower. “I can see what he sees in you now.”
me in some tags AFTER i wrote the stuff above:
BRO OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES YOU SHIP IT AND THIS IS HAPPENING
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There are many things I usually go through before choosing a place to rent. For example, do the neighbours have dogs? That's a no because people here don't know how to be a responsible dog owner, most owned dogs bark at everything that moves. I also check for the water pressure, the internet connection, the electrical appliances and whatnot.
But I have never thought I needed to consider the possibility of having a neighbour who likes to sing his lungs out every fucking day every morning and afternoon. I have considered neighbours who like to talk loudly, but not this shit.
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