#i think jkr is garbage and i still like the hp fandom | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

inessencedevided · 2 years

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Are you excited for secrets of Dumbledore. Saw the second trailer for it at the movie theater I work.

Ahhh, I'm sorry this took me so long to answer. Tbh, i was debating just answering you in private but then i realised that i actually feel like i need to voice these thoughts aloud now

To answer your question, this is how I feel:

(Tbh, i wanted to put a gif here where chidi (that's the character above) says that every time he needs to make a decision, his mind makes a sound like a fork in a garbage disposal. But i couldn't find a gif of it so this will have to do)

The thing is, I'm physically incapable of not caring about this movie or the grindeldore content in it. I saw the trailer and i legit started shaking. I saw the cafe scene between Gellert and Albus and i literally screamed. This movie seems to be specifically written to press all my buttons. I've been shipping grindeldore since i was 13 and here they are, confirmed, on screen, admittedly in costumes I find quite boring, but also played by two of the most extraordinary actors imaginable. Under normal circumstances I would never shut up about this movie.

But here comes the huge "But": JKR. And the fact that she is deeply involved with this movie and its marketing and seems to use the platform it gains her specifically to spread her harmful ideas.

I'm not on twitter, but while I was pondering whether or not I should interact with this movie online (which would mean on my tumblr basically and nowhere else) I went and looked at her twitter. And frankly, I was shocked. I mean, yeah, I knew her views but I had purposefully cut myself off from that a while ago and was unaware of just how constant these harmful reactionary and transphobic tweets had gotten. (And here i could go into it in detail about how radical feminists and "gendercritical" people don't "just" hurt trans people, but also cis women and the entire idea of feminism by casting (their idea of) men as their enemies instead of the system of patriarchy as a whole but other people have done that already and better than i could and that's not the point of this post anyway.)

And here is the thing, the fact that i strongly disagree with jkr would not automatically mean that I don't engage with the harry potter universe anymore. Fandoms don't necessarily have to be in praise of the creator(s) of the content they engage with. Often fandom acts specifically in opposition to the creators of their source material and if there had been no new material since the Harry potter franchise was completed, i would have no problem doing so in the HP fandom as well. Hell, if my staple was, say, marauders fanfic or drarry content, i might still engage with that right now. But, I'm a grindeldore fan through and through and that's, sadly, actively making jkr money right now as well as giving her a platform to spread her bigoted agenda

So here i am, stuck with the sound of a fork in a garbage disposal in my head.

Because I'm so angry, too. I know there are a lot of people out there who are saying "if you even remotely care about anything related to Harry Potter anymore you're a bad person and you should feel bad" but you know what? No. I care. I'm incapable of not caring because this world (and dumbledore and grindeldore specifically) was such a huge part of my formative years. I used to think that whatever went wrong in my life or the world, at least I'd still have hogwarts as an uncomplicated haven to return too. But no, that's gone now. There is no way to consume or engage with hp content now, that is not in some way inherently political, especially in public. It has truly lost its innocence and that makes me so angry and sad. But these feelings, however much they are hurting me are nothing against the hurt jkr is actively causing towards trans people and the cause of feminism. So I'm really only left with one choice (I'm not getting into the content of the series here. Obviously there's stuff there that's worth criticising too. but in general, I firmly believe that the fact that a book or movie has "problematic" content is no reason not to engage with it. The idea that one cannot love something (or certain aspects of it) and engage with it critically at the same time is, imo, frankly infantilising. My reasons for not engaging with fb right now are firmly rooted in it's real world effects, not its content)

But yeah ... that's my reaction. And I'm sorry I unloaded that on you. I wish I could just enjoy this movie in all it’s flawed, retconning beauty. I wish I could make grindeldore edits out of that frankly unfairly poetic cafe scene (THE FLAMES!!! HELLO??? 😭) bc I finally have proper giffing skills :/ But I can't ...

Maybe i will one day, when the movie is out of cinemas, but not right now

(Please don't reblog this post. I have zero energy for a discussion about this that gets larger than my immediate mutuals and followers 😅 if you are one of those, feel free to comment or send me a dm though 💚)

#I'm nit tagging this with the relevant tags because i don't want this to spread #if you have blogged them and this makes it appear on your dash I'm really sorry #personal #delete later #maybe ...

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desidarling123 · 3 years

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FACT CHECK: Did JKR sue people for writing Wolfstar fanfiction? [FALSE] [with sources]

So, if you're at all active in the HP fandom, and ESPECIALLY if you're on TikTok, you've likely come across a post or video claiming the following:

JKR LITERALLY SUED PEOPLE OVER WOLFSTAR FANFICTION! AND THAT'S ALSO WHY SHE MADE REMADORA CANON -- TO SPITE THE SHIPPERS!

I'm not sure who first started this claim or how its various permutations grew, but it spread at the speed of light across social media. This widely-circulated meme summarizes it:

For the LONGEST time, I didn't know what to make of it. The claims were vague enough that they seemed like they could be true -- after all, JKR is a megacunt and a renowned TERF. You don't need to fact-check either of those things.

But then -- for the first time ever -- I came across a video on TikTok claiming that what was being said was NOT true, and that it was being used SPECIFICALLY to stir up drama. Which was... crazy, to say least.

And that led me, well, to do my own research & fact-check. I've taken the original video's structure and added some exposition as well.

So here's the truth:

That 2003 case the above meme refers to? Not even REMOTELY what the situation was about. Hell, not even CLOSE.

In 2003, JKR sent a cease-and-desist letter to an explicit adult HP fan fiction website, called "Restricted Section". Here's the letter:

As the above letter states, the site was sent a notice because of overarching concerns that minors would accidentally stumble onto the sexually explicit content the site hosted after searching up 'Harry Potter'.

The hand-wringing over minor safety probably seems dated now, but it was, in fact, standard practice in the early 2000s - sexually explicit fan content was being removed across the internet for those exact concerns. In fact, just the year before, in 2002, fanfiction.net was purged of NC-17 content (which would happen one more time, in 2012).

I feel ridiculous stating it, but just to be clear -- in the above letter and all my subsequent research, there's NO evidence she went after Wolfstar -- or any ship, for that matter -- directly.

In fact, the letter goes an extra mile to declare that "our clients (JKR) make no complaint about innocent fan fiction written by genuine Harry Potter fans", but that, "there is plainly a very real risk that impressionable children... will be directed... to your sexually explicit website".

But that leads in nicely to the next point -- the website DIDN'T shut down, as per the letter's request. Instead, they added password protection to ensure only members older than 17 were accessing it.

OK, but why did JKR and Warner Bros go after this site in the first place? Most believe it was because of a widely-publicized article in THE SCOTSMAN that talked about the website. But, once again, this article doesn't go after Wolfstar in particular -- it only goes after Harry x Draco and Harry x Snape. The inclusion of latter was arguably what generated the biggest controversy -- the pairing of Harry, a fictional minor, with an adult character, in slash stories largely written by adult heterosexual women, was not one that could be cast in a good light to the general public. It's hardly a surprise JKR's lawyers sought to do something before the controversy got out of hand and worried parents started to make calls.

What I said before still goes, though. The legal core of the issue was ALWAYS to do NOT with the ships, but the EXPLICIT NATURE of the work -- and the (very real) concerns that the series' then-mostly-under-18 readership could find said works with very little as far as guardrails were concerned. (I know, because I was one of those kids)

TLDR; JKR did NOT sue people over Wolfstar fanfiction, she sent a cease-and-desist notice to a website that was not taking adequate precautions to prevent minors from accessing the explicit adult content on the site.

To be clear -- this is not meant to be a statement on what to ENJOY in your fandom ships. You can ship Wolfstar, Remadora, both, neither -- it really doesn't matter. I think the fandom is critical enough of the author to have reclaimed her work on our own terms, and people should be allowed to just, idk enjoy things.

But propagating straight-up falsehoods is dangerous, especially when it comes at the expense of 1) a safe fandom environment (see: the current fandom ship wars between Remadora and Wolfstar, which are difficult to watch) and 2) serves as a distraction from the ACTUAL garbage JKR engages in (of which there is plenty -- no need to make it up lol).

Also, truth be told -- inter-fandom ship wars don't generally add anything productive to the necessary conversations that need to be had about her works. The thought that dashing fan ships was a key motivator in her writing rather than, I don't know, plot concerns, is ludicrous on face, and gives fans a level of control over the original writer that just... doesn't exist IRL? And certainly didn't back then?

And again -- the books would have been VERY different series, plot-wise, if Sirius Black HAD lived. Him being in a relationship with Remus, confirmed or implied, has no relation to that decision.

If we have talk Harry Potter, I'd rather talk about just about anything else -- the racism, the misogyny, the lack of any sort of organic queer rep and JKR's inability to just own up to the problems in her works. But the minutiae of ship wars -- and the inevitable stream of disinformation that comes with it, sans any kind of concrete evidence -- is one I'd prefer to pass on.

SOURCES:

Cease-and-Desist Letter Copy: http://archive.is/HTLsq

THE SCOTSMAN Article: http://archive.is/VdEaY

Restricted Section Updates Page:

https://web.archive.org/web/20030815233612/http://www.restrictedsection.org/news.php

BONUS: The original TikTok video I came across whose structure and sources I shamelessly stole to read and build out my argument. I copied a lot of their wording because it explained it better than I could, you just get some bonus snarky commentary from yours truly

#wolfstar #remadora #atyd #all the young dudes #jk rowling #harry potter #fandom meta #fandom fact check

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amorremanet · 2 years

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okay so I just read your entire post on m*lly and a*thur weasley and I have to say I agree with you on pretty much everything and, while I knew they were bad people, I didn't even realise a lot of what they did were bad and since I don't just JKR's narration as far as I can throw her so I was wondering what your view on the other Weasleys are, since I don't particularly like Ron. I'd love to hear another perspective.

Hey, nonny!

I'm sorry to disappoint here, and I really don't want to be rude when you've been so nice? But anymore, engaging with HP anything mostly makes me feel nauseated and ashamed of myself for how much time and energy I put into the fandom, only to have Joanne end up going full on T3RF and perpetuating bigoted garbage that actively makes the world more hostile toward and dangerous for several people I love.

[sorry for the L1ndsay Ell1s video link, and ftr, I'm not co-signing everything she's ever said; I just think this particular video is solid. Watch it with an adblocker on if you don't want her getting any adsense from your view]

So, again, I'm sorry, and please don't feel like you did anything wrong here; I'm rarely on tumblr anymore, and when I am, I don't talk about HP, so you had no way of knowing any of my thoughts or how much I'm still in the fandom or not. But the only real perspective I really feel up to giving here is that Percy is my favorite, Fred is my least favorite, I probably wouldn't like Ginny even if she weren't done dirty by Joanne's internalized misogyny but that's just down to "Ginny isn't my personal cup of tea, character-wise" rather than anything being bad or wrong or whatever about her, and Ron……………is fine.

idk, I used to hate Ron, but it was mostly the overcompensation of a twelve-year-old who hadn't realized that she was allowed to ship Hermione with girls, just like she was increasingly shipping W0lfstar, because apparently, girls being with girls was NOT just something that Takeuchi Naoko-sensei made up for Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune (in my defense, it was 2002, and I was raised Catholic).

So, the HP fandom that I'd seen by that point made me feel like I had to pick some kind of side in the "who should Hermione get with" debate, and out of the most popular ships for her at the time, I didn't personally like her with Draco (my favorite Draco scene was and still is the one with the Amazing Bouncing Ferret), Ron (it seemed like the obvious endgame, which annoyed the part of me that was a bratty tweenager and being pointlessly nonconformist, but also I projected onto her and I didn't want to get with Ron—which, in retrospect? is just because I was a lesbian and didn't know it yet, but……see previous point about being sheltered), or Snape (teacher/student just isn't my thing and usually squicks me)

Which meant that Harry won by process of elimination, which meant that I had to vitriolically hate the other ships and think they were all stupid and bad because I was twelve and the culture on the message boards at the time really led me to believe that being consumed with hatred for the ships you don't like was, like, normal, or a good way to be, or a recipe for happiness. (It's not any of those things, and I don't recommend it, but……blah blah, 12-year-old Kassie was a sweet summer child who didn't even know she was gay yet, despite how the highest praise she could give to any of the famous boys she crushed on—Orlando Bloom, Hayden Christensen, Enrique Iglesias, I could name more—was "he's almost pretty enough to be a girl.")

(also, that video in the link is about the sordid tale of MsScribe, which is definitely well beyond the normal scope of drama in Ye Olde HP Fandom of the early naughts………but although Eldena Doubleca5t doesn't make this point, I personally believe that one of the reasons why MsScribe got away with her elaborate, massively convoluted sockpuppetry for so long? was that she weaponized the anti-Harry/Ginny sentiment that a lot of Harry/Hermione shippers held, and spending as much time hating the other ship as you did actually loving and appreciating your own ship was so normalized as part of How To Be A Shipper In The HP Fandom that nobody questioned why a bunch of ostensibly random alleged H/G shippers would come out of nowhere to harass an H/Hr shipper who was basically a nobody, at the time.

It wasn't even exclusive to these ships. I remember when a fan-artist who I liked from Sailor Moon stuff started making HP art, they did mostly spend their time drawing Remus/Snape, but they made more than one piece shitting on Remus/Sirius just for existing and had multiple friends and fans supporting them in that. Because the whole concept of "just don't talk about the ships you don't like" was totally foreign to A LOT of Ye Olde School HP fan forums, LJ comms, etc. and bashing the ships you didn't like rather than actually enjoying the ships you DO like was treated as Essential for proving that you really loved your ships.

It was a toxic, bullshit culture that hit SEVERAL boiling points, over and over and over again, with several different ship wars because all of us collectively learned jack with a side of squat from every single instance where this happened. But……this jaunt down fandom history lane is way, way off-topic and not what you actually asked about, so. Sorry for that.)

A N Y W A Y.

TL;DR: I used to hate Ron, but it was grounded in fandom bullshit (and more specifically: ship war pissing contest bullshit), and he didn't actually deserve how much I hated him. But I also don't really have strong feelings on him. Y'know, he's fine. Not my cuppa, but I don't find him, like, grotesquely offensive or anything?

#anonymous #ask box #harry potter for ts #fandom shenanigans #actual about me #fandom history #idk i guess #i went way off on a tangent about ship war drama in the hp fandom of yore #weasley parent hate blog #not especially relevant to the tag ig but it's good to keep things easy to find #opinions for ts #also plz join me in affectionately making fun of my sheltered 12 y/o self for thinking she was 'straight'#*trixie mattel oh hooooooney.gif*#maybe she's born with it; maybe it's the complex product of interwoven sociocultural systems of knowledge & performance that shape the ways #in which we perceive & understand reality bc without them the experiences would exist but we would lack the specific terms we've created #either way: it's lesbianism #at least it was for me

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truestarshine · 2 years

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I know that since Jkr started tweeting garbage, people have been disappointed on her (with good reason) and have decided to not support her anymore and that's okay and understandable, but I also think that is also okay to still love the Harry Potter universe, especially the fandom since it was created by the fans, not her. The people in the fandom are the ones keeping it alive with their imagination and creativity, it is their content that I seek and love, I have never in my life think of her while reading or looking at any hp content, no creator has ever made something with her on mind (especially lgbtqa creators), so why must I stop enjoying something which she is not part of?

I wish people would stop acting like obsessive exes and stop rage checking what she is up to, they are just giving her the attention she craves, just stop buying her official merchandise, don't go to her theme parks and block her on twitter and move on. Enjoy all you like the Harry Potter universe and ignore/dislike her, those two concepts can coexist.

#harry potter #harry potter fandom #jk rowling #fuck jkr #i just want to enjoy my goddamn magical wizard shit in peace

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magic-can · 2 years

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Before I get into what I wanna say I just wanna put a disclaimer and just bring up the fact that I am a cis white woman. When it comes to the harm JKR has done, trans voices and voices of color are much more important than my perspective, as they are the communities that she is directly attacking. This is just something that has been on my mind ever since Fantastic Beasts 3 was announced.

An argument people try to make in favor of JKR is the classic “art vs the artist” point. Now, when it comes to art vs the artist, many people tend to see it as an all-or-nothing kinda thing; it’s either always true or always false. However, I think it should be judged on a case-by-case basis. Let me explain.

The biggest argument against separating JKR from her works is the fact that she actively uses her position of power to direct discrimination against specific communities. Hell, she started spewing her TERF garbage on Twitter the same time the trailer for Fantastic Beasts 3 dropped. She knows exactly what she’s doing, she WANTS to hurt and destroy these communities, and she has shown that countless times in the past. Giving her money and attention enables her to do that.

There are many other people out there who no longer gain anything from their work. Whether it be the company they work for taking all of the profits from their creations (which, of course is usually a bad thing that screws good people over. However I don’t think anyone feels bad in cases such as John K or Dan Schneider or even Butch Hartman, all of who aren’t profiting from their Viacom-owned properties anymore due to not owning the rights, to my knowledge at least).

There are people who willingly walk away from their works, handing their position over to someone else. And while sometimes the original creator still takes some of the cut, there are other times in which they don’t.

There are people who are dead, like HP Lovecraft who was a shitty guy but can’t gain anything anymore because, again, he’s dead and has been for a while.

JKR isn’t in any of these situations. She still has a direct say in her work and again, actively profits from it, and uses that profit and influence to perpetuate harm.

For the love of everything good, if you absolutely HAVE to consume HP content/buy merch, buy second hand from sites like Ebay, Poshmark, Mercari, etc. there’s a lot of people selling their HP merch after JKR started making an ass of herself. Borrow the books/movies from your local public library, they deserve the support much more than a monster like JKR. Pirate the movies (including Fantastic Beasts 3 when it comes out). Enjoy them in private though, participating in the fandom still spreads her influence.

I just can’t stand this woman. Stop giving her your money and attention.

#magiccan speaks #tw transphobia mention #tw racism mention #tw terf mention #basically the well being of real people is much more important than your silly wizard books #JKR isn’t even that good of an author TBH #also I do wanna say that if you have any HP themed clothing DON’T FUCKING BURN IT #for some reason people like to burn their merch as some sort of statement #not only is that a MASSIVE fire hazard but it’s spitting in the face of people who need clothes #but can’t afford them. just donate them (research the charity first tho)#anti jkr #fuck jkr #jkr #jk rowling #harry potter

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wolfstarwarehouse · 3 years

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is it wrong of me to write wolfstar fanfic? I dont support JKs views and dont buy any products anymore, but writing about these two are a big source of comfort for my anxciety, and it's very difficult for me to let that go.

While I understand the need for comfort and reassurance on this, I’d be lying through my teeth if I gave some sort of lukewarm platitude. The truth is I’m still struggling with this question myself in regards to fandom involvement. On the one hand, I do believe we’ve made our own inclusive and welcoming community in this fandom, and while I don’t subscribe to Death of the Author, I think we’ve inserted a lot of our own meaning and ideas into these characters apart from the source material.

On the other hand, there is the argument that any sort of interaction with the things JKR had a hand in is platforming her and contributing to her success in different ways. And I can’t, in good faith, deny that it’s at least a little bit true. I really wish I was able to immediately wash my hands of everything HP. But this fandom, this blog, has been a huge source of comfort and happiness for me, too. I hope my disavowal of said author and recommending fics with trans characters does something to ensure anyone who comes to this blog that it’s a safe and supportive place.

For now I’m kind of living in this grey area. I believe there is space to love something and reclaim it, while also making sure we’re looking at it’s creator and the original work through a critical lens. I read HP Lovecraft for the first time this year and quite enjoyed some of his stories, while still recognizing and being horrified by how massively racist and xenophobic he was. Honestly I’m used to taking tv shows, books, and movies from problematic creators, who often have very staunchly argued that their stories are not queer in any way, and seeking out anything and everything that makes them queer. And I know that, as someone not part of the community being most harmed by her rhetoric, a position like this is privileged in itself.

tl;dr It’s really an individual decision, I think. If, like me, this fandom is still able to help you and make you happy in some way, then you can decide to continue with it. As long as you’re still aware and educated about the issues with her work and her as a garbage person. There might come a point in the future when further crap from JKR makes me so disgusted with her that it does ruin everything in its path. But until then, I’m stubbornly hanging on and enjoying reading fics about the characters and world I still love, while also using whatever influence I have to recommend and support trans and other diverse fanfics and authors where I can.

Other things that helped me reconcile some of my feelings: this post, this resource guide, this article, this video and this video.

Some great trans charities you can support: Mermaids, Reclaim, Trans Women of Color Collective, Transgender Law Center, The Okra Project.

#Anonymous #ask #really I think it's good to be uncomfortable #to be clear I don't mean guilty #like as some sort of self-flagellation #don't be constantly subjecting yourself to negative emotions #but uncomfortable #that's the space that forces us to learn and grow #to confront the complexities of the world we live in #and hopefully increase our understanding of humanity as a result #all this to say i'm still a work in progress on this issue myself #but i'm trying #discourse

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lunarfly · 3 years

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Honestly, you should check out this Dante Wood fella on Quora. He’s this multi potterhead ship hater who asks many rude and insulting questions on Romione, Harmione, Hinny and Dramione shippers. He’s literally become the bane of their existence. I almost would feel bad for them but then I realize these are the same users/shippers that ask insincere questions to the other ship/shipper. Guess karma is a bitch;)

Hello, thank you for the ask!

Yeah, I checked out his profile and I'm not so impressed. He's hateful and spiteful. But I must admit, he has got a very fair point. Before I talk about that though, I'll just bring up a few things:

Even though he often underlines very important issues with our fandom's "ship wars," his account still shouldn't exist. He's rude and he goes the wrong way about sending his messages. He keeps spitting venom out of his mouth when he should try to be logical and explain his points without any insults and attacks. But when do respectful people ever get anything, it's always the drama and over exaggeration that draws people's attention.

He's hypocritical. He says he hates the fact that shippers constantly generalize the other sides of the fandom but he also generalizes shippers himself. He calls out shippers collectively, as if we were all to blame for a few people's toxic behavior and generalizing tendencies. He generalizes us (the shippers) by saying we all generalize each other (the other shippers).

He hates on Harmione/Romione/Hinny/Dramione and only justifies his hatred by the shippers. But just hating it isn't bad at all, everyone's allowed to hate something. The thing is, he also claims that all of these ships "suck" and are all "garbage." He never presents any arguments or constructive criticism, he just says they're objectively bad ships because they have bad shippers. I'm pretty sure everyone can see the problem with this logic.

Now about his messages. I must say, I agree with him a whole lot. So many people in this fandom tend to generalize everyone. Examples of this?

"Harmione shippers haven't read the books! They only ship it because of the movies!"

"You only ship Hermione with ___ because you use her as a self-insert tool! You ___/Hermione shippers only want to project your own feelings onto her, you don't actually understand her character!"

"All Romione/Hinny shippers are toxic! None of them respect our ship!"

"All Harmione/Dramione shippers hate Ron and Ginny"

And much more.

While many of those claims do apply to many shippers, they don't apply to everyone. And generalizing a group of people while talking about them negatively is obviously wrong and harms both sides of the "war."

The ridiculous argument that "Harmony shippers haven't read the books" started (or gained popularity) in 2005 when J.K. Rowling said this in an interview:

JKR: Well I think anyone who is still shipping Harry/Hermione after this book –

ES: [whispered] Delusional!

JKR: Uh ’ no! But they need to go back and reread, I think.

That one simple comment still affects the H/Hr shipping community to this day, even after JKR admitted the possibility of H/Hr in 2014.. People are still calling us dumb and delusional, people still claim that we haven't read the books - and this argument has been expanded after people started noticing how the movies were sort of pushing a H/Hr narrative - people still make fun of us and many don't take us seriously. But people were shipping Harmione long before the release of the movies and they (including me) have written countless analyses pointing out moments from the books and reasons why Harry and Hermione would make a good couple but this ridiculous generalization, a kind of rumor, is still around and I don't think it's going to leave any time soon.

The Ron and Ginny bashing rumor is more understandable since a huge part of the H/Hr fandom absolutely hate the two gingers and will find anything to tear them down and make them seem as cartoonishly evil as possible. But we still shouldn't apply this to everyone. I, for one, love Ron and Ginny and know many Harmione shippers who feel the same way.

(In the following paragraphs I am talking about the HP fandom generally but obviously these things don't apply to every person individually.)

The majority of the Harry Potter fandom these days only truly accepts book lovers into discussions and their "main" fandom (people who solely make video edits or such are in a different kind of fandom). But everyone who's a book lover and doesn't ship Romione/Hinny or dislikes Ron/Ginny will slowly be forced to either liking these or leaving the fandom. Because, according to most of the fandom, if you don't like these characters/pairings, you haven't read the books, you're toxic and you're stupid. If you like Harmione, you're automatically labeled with "Movie Watcher," "Weasley Basher," "Toxic Garbage." People will start making assumptions about you and your work before they know you. Even if people learn that you're not any of those, these generalizations won't stop. No matter how much you do, no one will take you seriously, no one will care, no one will accept you, no one will explore your work. You will only be acknowledged in the book-loving fandom if you ship Romione and Hinny or if you're an extremely toxic person (that way you'll get mocked for every word that comes out of your mouth, but you'll deserve it if you're really a toxic person). This fandom also tends to misunderstand the words "toxic" and "bashing." Any sort of criticism is labeled with "bashing" and the author of that criticism is labeled with "toxic." Not that there aren't people who are toxic and hateful but our fandom tends to fail to see the difference between constructive criticism and hate.

And there are also those "big" accounts who are praised for every word they say. They can bash any ship or character they want to and the majority of the fandom (the book-loving, canon-ship-loving one that I explained) will agree with it and spread their words around. When they say something about one shipper, it will automatically be applied to everyone who ships that. If they say that any ship with Harry and Hermione that isn't Romione and Harmione suck, the majority of the fandom will accept it as objective truth and since they have most of the fandom supporting them they feel comfortable repeating and accepting these things. As a result of these things being accepted as common knowledge, the people who don't agree feel isolated from the fandom. For example, I do. I follow lots of people who ship Romione and Hinny or love Ron and Ginny because I also feel the same way about these characters and pairings. But I can't go a day without seeing at least one of them degrade Harmione and send hate to the ship + shippers. The more hate my ship gets, the more these rumors, labels and arguments spread around. And Harmione shippers get called stupid for loving a fictional pairing, so I constantly feel invalidated in this fandom, even if no one addresses me specifically. The ideas that Harmione is a horrible ship and its shippers are toxic and so on are so engrained in our fandom that they're seen as almost "rules" of the fandom and no single person can change that. I constantly feel like I'm invalid for liking Harmione and this isn't normal. Our fandom pushes the idea that the only intelligent people are those who support the canon pairings and disapprove of ships like Harmione, Fremione and etc. I understand the hatred against Dramione and every other toxic ship, but I can't for my life figure out why people feel the need to tear down every healthy fanon ship. But they do it anyway. They consider everyone who disagrees with them "stupid" and unintelligent. I feel like I don't belong every time I see comments like "Ugh, how can someone ship Harry and Hermione? They're like siblings, people! You clearly haven't read the books." or "Anyone who ships this doesn't have a brain, they're too strongly influenced by the movies. They clearly don't understand Harry and Hermione." Sometimes I see my own friends calling H/Hr "strange" and such and they clearly don't help me feel any better. I feel the need to go in Harmony-only spaces to recharge myself and regain the confidence and get the validation I need. Otherwise, I feel completely isolated and invalid.

I can't blame only one side of the fandom though. The shippers have been divided for decades now and they have been throwing insults at each other ever since. It's a never-ending war. The bad side of this today is that the book-loving fandom (the "main" fandom) has merged with the canon ships fandom and now these are inseparable. If you like the HP books, you must also like the canon pairings and dislike most of the others, otherwise you're never going to feel like you belong. So now anyone who ships Harmione won't be able to properly interact with the "main" fandom because nobody thinks their opinions that Harry and Hermione are a better match than Ron and Hermione are valid. Same thing with Dramione shippers. Do you see how Dramiones and Harmonians don't really engage in discussions or just don't interact with the "main" fandom in general (unless they're defending their ship)? They have created their own spaces, separated from the "main" fandom and that's where they are most of the time. That's where I go when I need more positivity and validation. I have the discord server and the Harmione subreddit to go to. That's the only place I'm really comfortable in. If I go to a more "general" part of the fandom like the main HP subreddit or some of the biggest HP books fan accounts, it will affect me negatively because I will mostly see Romione and Hinny be glorified and Harmione treated like trash. Not only my ship but also the shippers. Which is probably the main reason I find the fandom toxic. All of this just ties into the stupid generalization and name-calling that causes the rift between OBHWF and Harmione shippers which leads me to seeing both sides of the fandom be attacked and bombarded depending on which space I choose to spend my time in.

I'm not going to pretend that the Harmione fandom is full of angels who are oppressed by Romione shippers. Because whenever I go to a Harmione-oriented space, I will find anti-Ron/Romione/Hinny/Ginny (and their stans) posts. Harmonians will often call Romiones toxic and hateful and will basically do everything in order to insult them. And they return the favor excellently. This happens with the majority of the fandoms so both of the sides just think every shipper is like the toxic shippers they interacted with, causing generalization and all of the problems I talked about above. And that forms a toxic environment.

I generally just talked about my experiences with generalization and insulting but there are many more things wrong with the fandom, so I definitely agree with Dante Wood in that aspect. But again, I don't think every single shipper is toxic and hateful and I most certainly don't think that Romione, Harmione and Hinny are trash (Dramione just might be). I pointed out all of my reasons for disliking his account at the beginning of my post. I just wish he fixed those problems with his account, then he would have such a great one.

I almost would feel bad for them but then I realize these are the same users/shippers that ask insincere questions to the other ship/shipper. Guess karma is a bitch;)

Here's where I get confused. Why did you send me this message? I am not one of those people who go and attack a part of the fandom I disagree with. I don't constantly attack Romione and Hinny, nor their shippers. I actually love those ships. I might criticize Dramione and other toxic ships but I'm not the one at war with them. I know I wrote a post basically calling Dramiones brainless once and I regret that. I think I'm a better person now. No matter how much I hate this ship I won't send hate to its shippers (P*dophilic ships are a different deal though, those ships are even more serious). So how exactly is this a consequence for what I've done when I've done basically nothing? And even if I did, how is Dante Wood's account supposed to affect me? He talks about the toxicity of shippers while being toxic and hateful himself. Am I supposed to take that seriously? He calls us hypocritical and proceeds to do the same himself. That's not the kind of person I take criticism seriously from (ignoring the fact that many of his posts aren't even criticism, it's just hate).

Anyway, thank you for taking your time to send me that message! Sharing my thoughts on Dante Wood's thoughts and account was fun! :)

#harry potter fandom

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captainkirkk · 4 years

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If I may ask how do you cope with learning bad things about content creators of your favorite show/book/anime..? Does it change the way you enjoy the work? I found that more often than not it sours my experience to the point where I enjoy it much less if at all (depends on how bad the thing I learn is I guess).. And then I tend to get really upset about losing something I really liked but at the same time unable to ignore the bad?

That really depends on: who it is, what they did, how much you value that thing, etc. For example, I can still enjoy Harry Potter, because even though JKR is garbage, she’s already filthy rich and famous, so my interaction with the series isn’t really going to impact her much. And I’m aware of the flaws in HP, so I can navigate around them and pay attention to the parts I do like. And fandom helps here: fanfiction can be a great “fuck you” to an author. But if it’s something like a youtube star, where the person is their content and by subscribing to them I’m actively supporting them, I’m going to be a lot more cautious about interacting with them.

Ultimately, I think it’s about separating the media from the creator in your mind. I do this with everything and always have, usually because I’m too busy hyperfocusing on the art to care about the artist or the actors lol. Even when it comes to bands, half the time I don’t care about the people behind the microphone, I’m too busy just vibing to the melody.

That’s not to say you should ignore critism. Definitely not. I think it’s important to be aware of the media we consume and the people we support. But pick and choose your battles, if you can.

#i hope this makes sense??#idk this one is tough #ask #anon

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arianadevareux · 4 years

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I feel so lost at the moment, I don’t care for JK Rowling anymore like I used to considering everything that happened. However, I still like the HP and Fantastic beasts series and I am such a proud Hufflepuff and love the house I’m in. Is it bad to still like Harry Potter? Some people want fans to drop it and then others say it’s fine to separate JKR and HP, so long as you don’t support JKR. I’m so confused and don’t want to offend anyone In the future with the line ‘I’m a Harry Potter fan’. I hate that I feel like I have to keep it to myself now and I don’t want to drop a fandom I’ve been in since I was a kid. I don’t mind hating on JKR, but you know something that was a big part of my childhood. (That and I love discussions with other people about what all our hogwarts houses, Wands, and patronus are. I like finding out that info from people)

It’s so tough. I’ve seen both sides as well; folks saying the separation is fine and folks saying that if you still like Harry Potter at all, then you’re trash.

The thing is, I think you have to separate the artist from their work to enjoy almost anything. Tolkien was racist and it’s seen in his work (much like JKR) and let’s not forget H.P Lovecraft. Even when considering musicians, many of the most revered are rumored to be huge fans of “baby groupies.” (Remember Winger’s song Seventeen?) We all probably own a film made by Weinstein, or shows telling various sexual assault jokes written by comedians (of course, the nefarious gay jokes that were so popular all through film history.) It’s damn near impossible to enjoy any type of media without inevitably supporting a bigot, transphobe, sexist, or racist.

JKR is absolute garbage and the fandom needs to acknowledge it. I think as long as you don’t support her in a monetary way anymore or give her any more of your money, it’s okay. Most of us grew up with Harry Potter and to completely drop it because of the author can be done, but then you need to drop every problematic author, musician, actor, etc. and let me tell ya, there are a metric fuck ton of them.

So thrift her works, buy fan made goods, and openly support trans people.

#anon message #jk rowling #fuck jk rowling

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introspectcd · 3 years

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people are still roleplaying Harry Potter after JKR admitted she’s a terf? can’t imagine supporting a transphobe’s work

we don’t support jkr - she’s a transphobic pos. even before she came out as such, she was questionable and i think generally none of the fandom claimed to support her or her outrageous claims.

it clearly states all over my blog in no way do i support jkr. so sending this to me, and more or less implying i’m transphobic in return, is just complete and utter bullshit.

she created a world that many people (as well as people who identify as trans) find to be comforting for them, it’s what really kept me going through the ages of 9-18, and even now in my 20′s. after jkr came out with those disgusting comments, the fandom decided we were keeping the world of harry potter as our own - it was ours, and jkr couldn’t take it from us.

it’s not like i’m actively giving her money or support. this blog (like many other hp blogs in the fandom) are very separate from jkr, and instead decide to fund and work with small creators, so jkr doesn’t profit. even film actors have separated themselves from jkr, and daniel radcliffe himself said harry potter is something for everyone and we should all be included, and that separating the world of hp from jkr is okay.

i’m not answering this question again, seeing as its implications are downright cruel. though, while i feel the need to defend myself: this blog is a safe space for everyone, everyone is welcome here, and jkr is total garbage (as it is said on my rules).

#Anonymous #jkr tw #anon hate tw

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thesixthstar · 4 years

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I recall you supporting Harry Potter up until the TERF thing even though I'm sure you knew about the goblin thing as well!

I think you’re confusing my enjoyment of HP content that is not blatantly TERFy antisemitic etc etc garbage with support of JKR or support of the parts of her fiction that show those bigoted views.

Like I’ve been reblogging things to this effect but i’ll say it myself. There is a point where you can Not separate the Work from the Author, as so many people like to do (or pretend they can do) when a Thing they like turns out to be made by someone who Is Bad or Has Bad Aspects. There is a second way of still enjoying works by people like that, which is to go “some of the things in this Work reflect bigoted viewpoints! those are bad! I still like a story about a boy wizard though!”

And additionally, wrt HP itself, I’m way more attached to the Aftermath of HP content than I am to the original work. I like the fandom and the community it built around it, I like how its popularity brought fantasy into a more mainstream place, I like AVPM and Potter Puppet Pals and all that stuff and how that connects me to the people around me via shared interests, I like how I can tell people I’m a Ravenclaw and people will know several things about me from that.

I read those books when I was too young to know how the goblins were antisemitic depictions, but when i grew up and learned, the disappointment and sadness I felt about that didn’t erase all of the positive memories I had attached to growing up with HP and HP fandom stuff.

And hey. None of that means I support JKR, or her shit opinions. Its important people be able to enjoy a thing and be fully able to go “also the author is garbage and we shouldn’t condone or contribute to/support that nonsense”

#ive grown up with too many of these debates to feel guilty about having preexisting emotional attachments to stuff that turns out to be writ #anon #ask

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jonathanlejonhjarta · 7 years

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6-10 in that ask game if I'm not sending this in too late lmao

6. has any fandom ever ruined a pairing for you? hmmm,,im not sure.. not that i can think of right now.

7. is there anything you used to like, but now can’t stand? oh so many things but the only thing that really bother me, that some people in my near circles still like, is bb/c sh/erl/ock. but then ofc sp/n, gl/ee for example but at least no one i am close to like and talk about those shows.

8. unpopular opinion about [insert fandom]? @ every fandom: if your fandom has a creator who is problematic, call them the fuck out. like jkr, moffat, st*efvater, julie andem. i dont get how some hp fans can appreciate the canon story because of all the bullshit jkr has said or how people can look away from the harm julie has done to wlw skam fans. (i dont get how sherl/ock fans still exist because it’s a garbage show and i hate steven moffat)

9. have you ever received anon hate? what about? hate and hate i dont know if you can call it that but ok. someone once got really mad at me for making headcanons about the trc boys but not blue sargent and thought i hated women. but hey it’s not my fault st*efvater wrote canon blue sargent horribly so she wasnt appealing to 15 year old me to make headcanons about while the boys were because i was a trans boy freshly out of the closet and projected my feelings at every male character i stumbled upon

10. any fandom you’re ashamed of being in? no i love naruto so much and im not ASHAMED ✌✌

#elliot's anons #small letters

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amorremanet · 7 years

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hate meme: harry james potter, abed nadir, freddie lounds & santana lopez? ^.^

“send me literally anything and ill tell you something i hate about it”

abed nadir

sometimes got too much attention and/or narrative forgiveness

like? abed is one of my favorite male fictional characters, period, and he means a lot to me because he’s one of the only examples of GOOD autistic spectrum representation in fiction, and i know that dan harmon and the writers loved him a lot (and for that, i don’t blame them)

but look at troy’s last episode in season five (the one where they had a massive, school-wide game of, “the floor is lava” before troy left to sail around the world with levar burton, but abed tried to drag it out forever, at the expense of literally everyone else, because he didn’t want troy to go)

for one thing: on the in-universe level, abed dragged the entire population of greendale into this game and kept dragging it out without regard for the game’s effects on anyone else (and people were getting hurt, greendale’s ability to function as a school — even by greendale standards — was pretty much dead, and abed was totally fine with that)

and he massively disregarded troy’s agency in the whole matter (because he lied to troy about the purpose of the game; britta, for all her many faults, is the one who went, “uh, troy, abed is screwing with everyone to keep you at greendale”) — and this was all cast not just as sympathetic, but as ultimately more or less okay, because abed only did it because he loves troy so much and he’s terrified of both change and losing his best friend

which *is* sympathetic, and i feel abed on both counts, but that doesn’t make what he did okay???

for another thing: on the meta-level, troy’s last episode wound up being more about abed than it was about troy. like, this was going to be the last time we got to see troy at greendale and he did have an arc in the episode, but his arc was subordinated for the sake of an abed-focused ep

and if they were trying to have a “troy and abed” focused ep, then…

1. troy’s last episode was really not the time for that; abed should’ve been a secondary focus, at most

2. they did not succeed, in terms of foregrounding the troy/abed relationship, because they approached troy and abed individually, rather than looking at their relationship, and they didn’t go back to the relationship enough to make it work (like in the “pillows and blankets” two-parter) 

3. there wasn’t a balance between troy and abed like the one you had in the “pillows and blankets” two-parter, or like the abed/shirley balance in “messianic myths and ancient peoples” or like the jeff/shirley balance in “foosball and nocturnal vigilantism” (or basically any jeff/shirley episode; they usually balanced pretty well, without either overtaking the other)

so, yeah. i love abed, but ffs. making him the show’s pet was really not good for anybody. to be fair, i would also say that annie suffered from this at least as much as abed did, so it’s not like abed was alone in this — but it really sticks out in a series that otherwise tried to be good about balancing its ensemble cast and challenging the typical protagonist-centered worldviews you see in most sitcoms

harry james potter

it’s less about him, exactly, and more about how tumblr fandom has taken to handling his status as a survivor of horrific childhood abuse and a few metric fuck-tons of trauma (but tbf, i think most of these answers fall into the heading of, “it’s less about the character, more about X thing in contexts surrounding them,” so)

which isn’t even exclusive to harry, because the hp fandom is totally bogus about handling abuse culture in general, and it’s rife with all kinds of double standards

—like, on the one hand, sirius attempts to commit a very premeditated murder by proxy, and even though the proxy is remus and he would’ve suffered for it more than sirius bc he’s a werewolf and the murder would have happened on the full moon, this is apparently totally 5,000% acceptable because sirius has abusive parents and the intended victim is snape

but on the other hand, you are victim-blaming, abuse apologist garbage if you think that severus is justified in never forgiving james and sirius even if his actions based on that were mostly in the wrong, or thinking that he had every right to fight back against james and sirius when they tormented him in school

(and never mind that james potter was not, at that time in his life, a victim of fucking anything. he is a wealthy, pureblooded man who came from a loving, supportive family, and is canonically regarded as both straight and white

TO BE FAIR, he is also never specified as being white, like voldemort, lucius, and draco all are — and as other readers have noted elsewhere, the way the dursleys talk about james/lily is heavily racialized, despite being about him being a wizard, in the text — so poc!james is one of the, “jkr didn’t say it’s not canon, so it could be” type of headcanons

but he’s also never said to be a poc, so that’s fanon

moreover, it can’t be treated as canon in order to make it out like james’s years of bullying snape were anything but a guy who is canonically privileged in every way that he can possibly be privileged in jkr’s universe bullying another kid who does not have most of james’s privileges [he’s male, a halfblood — less privileged than purebloods but more privileged than muggleborns — and he’s canonically regarded as straight and white; that’s it on the, “privileges that snape has in jkr’s universe” front]

—but hey, if it’s fair game to bring up all of the racialized coding in how the dursleys talk about james by way of trying to ignore the fact that jkr treats him as white in canon, then how about let’s remember all the antisemitic coding in how jkr writes about severus, even though she doesn’t outright say that he’s jewish: source (nb: this post was written in 2005, the author didn’t have dh), source, source, source, source, source

and oh, never mind how james flat-out says that he bullies severus, “more [because of] the fact that he exists, if you know what i mean” [ootp 647]

and never mind how plenty of the people who act like severus was obligated to forgive james and sirius have reblogged things about how nobody is ever obligated to forgive their abusers, and/or condemn him for fighting back while applauding when hermione punches draco [which i say without judging them bc she’s fighting back against a blood purist little snot who torments her and her friends for fun, and i love that moment too], like??

ffs, guys, you can criticize and/or condemn snape’s actions without acting like he was terrible because he saw no reason to forgive james and sirius for what they did to him, or acting like it was Totally Wrong Forever for him to fight back against the guys who meant he didn’t even get a reprieve from his abusive, neglectful home-life at school bc they decided to torment him, and they had classmates who thought it made them cool)

furthermore, it’s apparently soooo totally not sirius’s fault that he abuses kreacher because he’s stuck in grimmauld place and lashing out against his abusive parents because kreacher still loves them…… or so say people who are otherwise happy to call out the wizarding world for having this institutionalized and magically reinforced system of slavery, which i guess doesn’t matter when sirius “cinnamon roll uwu~” black is the person abusing that system to get away with his bullshit and explicitly abusive treatment of another sentient being—

which all goes back to harry because of how abuse culture ends up rearing its ugly head in how people discuss him as a survivor

like, apart from the double standards that all fandoms have toward abuse culture and survivors, there are two big sides that i’ve seen, in this trend.

on one hand, you have the people who want harry being a survivor to excuse him of things like trying to use the cruciatus curse (and successfully using it on amycus in dh!) or similar

on the other hand, there was the shit like what you saw after “cursed child” first came out, where people were going, “omg but harry is an abuse survivor, he would NEVER say/do anything like this to his kids ever” — which…… uh?

no. not how it works.

even ignoring the irl psychology parts related to abuse and survivors of it, jkr has two big models of abusers in the series:

people who are over-privileged af and bully down because they fucking can and who the fuck is really going to stop them (draco, bellatrix, the dursleys, bartemius crouch sr., umbridge, tom-mort voldingdong, albus dumbledore, and oh yeah, james and sirius);

and people who have been hurt by others before and lash out at others because of it, to the point of becoming abusers themselves (severus, sirius, barty crouch jr., peter pettigrew, arguably albus and tom-mort have shades of this as well but it’s very debatable, and if ginny, and remus actually crossed the line into abusive, rather than being, “well, they’re not abusers, but they have these examples of behaviors that could become patterns that went this way,” they’d both be on this list too, but since they don’t, they’re only getting mentioned)

(she has three big models if we include, “abusers who are not recognized as abusers in the text because she didn’t feel like it today i guess” — which mostly means the weasley parents, but other characters definitely have moments of doing shit that should’ve been called out and wasn’t, c.f. harry running around and trying to cast the cruciatus curse, hermione keeping rita skeeter in a mason jar and hexing the signup parchment at the DA, hagrid trying to attack dudley and turn him into a pig over shit that vernon said and dudley trying to eat harry’s birthday cake, fred and george full stop)

so, yeah, uh

idk guys, how about let’s NOT invalidate abuse survivors in fandom by perpetuating these ideas that survivors are and/or have to be perfect cinnamon rolls, while all abusers ever in the world are these ridiculous slobbering caricatures of all things terrible

that’s not how it works

acting like that’s how it works ends up helping police survivors and invalidate their experiences because it plays into things like the idea that all abusers are obviously abusive, which leads to real-world survivors having a harder time being believed when they try to reach out for help

which makes it all a function of abuse culture

if you really care about survivors — and if you really care about harry as a survivor — then don’t use his status as a survivor to make shit harder for irl survivors, period

freddie lounds

i guess this is more of a problem with how freddie was written tbh

but, like…… true, nbc!hannibal avoided being absolute about most things even more than hannibal himself avoids vegetarian recipes

the most absolutism you really got was, “murder is generally wrong, like. killing in self-defense is one thing, but even if you’re trying to get ingratiated with a cannibalistic serial killer again in the name of stopping him (william), murder is probably going to be wrong so you should, like…… not do that, i’m just saying” and, “eating people is wrong unless hannibal didn’t tell you that you were eating people, in which case it is still wrong but it’s his fault, not yours”

all of which is stuff that the show doesn’t really get any cookies for taking a stand on because, “in 99.999% of cases, murder is wrong and should be avoided” is…… not really a unique or groundbreaking moral sentiment

like, it’s one of the beliefs you find in, as far as i know, every human civilization all over the world, throughout history

(there are, of course, differences of opinion on how to punish murderers, and there are exceptions made for people who get around the law by being wealthy and powerful, or by virtue of having some form(s) of societal privilege [e.g., whiteness, or straightness in the case of the, “gay panic” defense], or all of the old arguments about how killing someone during a time of war isn’t a murder and therefore doesn’t count, and then there are all of the semantic debates about, “are all killings inherently murders or what”

—but still. most people tend to agree that murdering other people is generally wrong.)

but yeah, uh

one place where i would’ve liked a little less ambiguity is freddie’s relationship with and feelings toward abigail

like, i wouldn’t have needed her to suddenly develop an increased amount of sympathy toward other victims — whether in general, or even just specifically, “other victims of hannibal lecter,” and given how he treated her on multiple occasions, it’s pretty ridiculous to just expect her ever stop being a pain in will’s ass (i mean, even when she wasn’t in the right, which was most of the time, some of how will treated her was unhelpful to everyone and in the realm of, “yes, i get where you’re coming from but this still wasn’t cool”)

—but with abigail specifically, the show sort of went back and forth between, “freddie is genuinely interested in helping abigail and does have some kind of regard for her as a person” and, “freddie is just out for herself and only using abigail and her trauma to further her own career,” which was all further complicated by the fact that pretty much no one on nbc!hannibal was a reliable narrator about anything, for any number of reasons

like, beverly probably came the closest before she got totally fridged for no good reason, but even she wound up hindered by the fact that hannibal was manipulating the evidence and playing everyone around him like a really overpriced theremin

and idk

i think the best “compromise” or interpretation here would’ve been, like… “freddie starts out just trying to advance her career because that’s just how she does things in general, but eventually, she did come to genuinely care for abigail as a person and to genuinely want to help her, which would explain things like why will was open to working with freddie against hannibal in season two, since he may not have trusted her in general, but he would trust her to want to take down the man whom they thought killed abigail (even though she was secretly still alive, at that point)”

but the show itself was never really clear on that, and it’s like

okay, guys, i don’t think you need to spell out absolutely everything, and i realize that a certain degree of ambiguity in most situations and with almost all of the characters is part of your #Aesthetic

but this would be an example of you once again screwing over the characters who are not named will and/or hannibal, especially since I got a feeling like it’s less that you were leaving things vague on the, “freddie and abigail” front, and more that you just didn’t really care to figure things out about this part of freddie’s character

so……… yeah

santana lopez

okay, i don’t blame her for wanting artie out of the way when he was dating brittany back in season 2 because lmao, i did too, but for starters, artie wouldn’t have been dating brittany if santana hadn’t blown her off in the first place

—which isn’t #Problematic in terms of her character development because…… uh, well yeah, that was the point. santana created the problem by blowing brittany off and trying to convince herself that she was “totally straight, except sometimes scissoring with brittany, lmao feelings are totally pointless and should be hated and santana doesn’t have them” and it was part of the story of her coming to accept herself as a lesbian

but it was kind of, “ummm…”-inducing that she… never actually had to accept her own responsibility for brittany/artie happening, like

first, in the duets episode, she tried to meddle and break them up by going, “brittany’s just using you for the free dinner at breadstix lmao” — which she succeeded in, because brittany and artie didn’t even sing (though they both still voted for themselves in the, “who should win” bit at the end) — and santana apparently thought that was it

tbf, it’s not like she could foresee puck and artie bonding, and puck trying to ““help”” artie get back with brittany by being so thoroughly himself…… but then brittany and artie were back on, and santana’s response was to manipulate brittany into cheating on him by going, “it’s not cheating bc we’re both girls” and expecting brittany to just go along with it

then, brittany calls her on that in “sexy” — inasmuch as brittany got a chance to do back then — and santana only accepts responsibility for anything in the sense of, “okay, brittany wants me to get more in touch with my feelings and admit that i do love her because that is how i fucked up before”

she doesn’t look at brittany’s relationships with other people, or at brittany’s feelings about anything but santana and the current state of their relationship + how it might go in the future, and so on — and this is another example of a situation where santana is presented as being sympathetic but still in the wrong, and brittany calls her on it, and it’s part of her overall growth in the end

but we never really address the manipulation in telling brittany, “it’s not cheating because we’re both girls” (which, by glee standards, is not that bad, and tbf, brittany and artie weren’t perfect angels in any of this, either, since artie was pretty ableist to brittany even before the, “how can you be so stupid, brittany!” “you were the only one in this school who never said that to me!” moment in the fleetwood mac episode, and brittany had her own manipulative moments with both artie and santana

—but it still kinda bugged me that santana had an opportunity to grow and learn more about using her capacity for manipulation for good, and it…… didn’t really go anywhere?

and you can tell that she didn’t learn about manipulating brittany — at least not until way later down the line — because a few episodes later, she’s plotting to use dave to win prom queen bc she thinks she can then go on to convince britt-britt that she’d made a royal decree that brittany had to be her girlfriend)

finally, santana was really ableist toward artie throughout the entire brittany/artie arc

……and beforehand.

…………and afterward.

………………and just in general, even without brittany needing to be involved, because to be fair, this was just one part of a larger overall pattern of ableist bullshit on glee’s part, of which artie wasn’t even the only victim (he was just one of the most notable ones because he was one of the only canonically disabled characters)

so, it’s like? yeah, santana said pretty ableist shit about artie, on a pretty regular basis — the “stubbles mc-cr*pple-pants” nickname is one example i’ll never forget

—and yeah, she said offensive things to basically everyone else on the show (c.f., calling rachel, “yentl”; calling mercedes, “wheezy”; taking her internalized homophobia out on kurt, not in the scenes like, “kurt and blarren sing about how much they love each other all over santana’s pain over being forcibly outed because that’s so what she needed to hear right now, stfu both of you” or in fairly going, “hey, shut up and quit judging MY wedding to brittany as a bad life choice just because YOU couldn’t make it work with blarren” but in all the smaller instances that you barely even notice at first; taking her internalized homophobia out on dave even while asking him to help her win prom queen/blackmailing him into it; list goes on)

but the ableist shit she said to artie sticks out to me, in particular, bc santana’s other examples of this behavior were generally cast as, “she’s witty and outrageous, yes, but you should really probably not actually say things like this, it’s asshole behavior on her part,” while the shit she said to artie…… kinda didn’t

not because the ableist shit she said to artie didn’t get called out

(bc lbr, most of the things that santana ever said didn’t get, “called out”

it got shown to be Not Cool bc it would get associated with people getting upset with her

or it would sound too much like Sue [who is almost always in the wrong, so sounding like her is something that you generally want to avoid]

or it would be used to show that santana is being selfish and rude even without it being called out [like when she called mercedes, “wheezy” before going, “we don’t have to like each other, let’s sing a duet together and win that free dinner at breadstix”]

or it would otherwise have some kind of repercussions

—but it probably wouldn’t get, “called out” as such, outside of REALLY big exceptions, like how they used, “well, but santana was bullying him” as a justification for finn getting her outed, when…… yes, her bullying him was wrong but these things are not the same

or the bit in, “silly love songs” where oher glee club kids [in order: finn, lauren, puck, quinn, tina, and rachel] bite back at santana over insulting them)

but her ableist shit toward artie sticks out because the show always kinda seemed to…… not agree with santana about it, exactly, since her saying it was still narratively seen as Not Cool?

but it seemed to give her a half-pass because plenty of the other characters who weren’t physically disabled expressed similar feelings about artie and his disability, just with less vitriol (e.g., puck, who even got to be friends with artie but still said ableist shit; he just wasn’t actively trying to be mean like santana was)

or they tried really hard to make it sound like, “well, this is just commonsense and how things are, what can you do” (e.g., MOST of them, back in season 1’s “wheels,” where rachel was pretty vitriolic in her ableist nonsense, but not directly at artie

—like, she was one of the, “but this is just how things are, don’t take it personally” when talking to him, but then lumped schue’s, “all of you will spend this week in wheelchairs to learn about accessibility!” lesson plan in with him giving kurt a fair audition for the “defying gravity” solo when she had her little diva moment of, “maybe someday, you’ll find a way to create teaching moments without RUINING MY LIFE” and then tried to storm out while still in a wheelchair)

which is all really less about santana herself, and more about how santana fit into the show’s overall patterns of ableism, but

i’m really hard-pressed to come up with something that i actually hate about santana, which is why hers is the longest answer (bc i had to dig deep and bullshit my way through it, oops)

(harry’s is closest in length but that’s because i had an actual point to make; by my standards, his answer is pretty short)

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