#i wanted to show that jgy is the kind of person who is always thinking; always remembering; always connecting threads

[spriteofmushrooms]

The first time Jin Guangyao held Jin Ling did not go as he'd expected. Jiang Wanyin, half-mad and barely functional, for some reason had been allowed into the nursery by Jin-furen. The moment whispers of this reached Jin Guangyao, of course he went to intercede; and it was fortunate he had. He could hear wailing halfway down the corridor.

"Why is he crying?" Jiang Wanyin demanded of the wetnurse as he held the baby incorrectly.

"This one is sure Sandu Shengshou knows better than her," she replied, eyes wide. Jin Guangyao made note of this, but he had few hopes of improvement. Jin servants knew to be meek.

"Obviously, I don't," Jiang Wanyin snapped, brows furrowed as he stared down at Jin Ling. Jin Guangyao purposefully brushed the silk of his robe, and like a dog Jiang Wanyin raised his head at the sound. "Lianfang-zun, what am I doing wrong?"

With a smile, Jin Guangyao moved between the shaking wetnurse and the mad dog of Lotus Pier. "Jiang-zongzhu, babies require support. Adjust your hand--yes, ah, slightly to the side--"

"Please just show me," Jiang Wanyin said, sounding tired as he held out Jin Ling.

The moment stilled. If his cultivation were better, Jin Guangyao believed he would hear the wetnurse's breath stop. She was, after all, expressly forbidden from allowing his whoreson hands to touch his nephew; yet neither of them could deny a sect leader.

A-Ling was warm and soft, sweetly heavy as all babies should be. His embroidered, daffodil-colored swaddling still burned with the heat of Jiang-zongzhu's high cultivation. Automatically, Jin Guangyao checked the boy for a fever; but of course no illness was allowed to fester in this child.

His chubby cheeks were red from crying, but as Jin Guangyao settled him in his arms, Jin Ling slowly quieted.

"As expected of Lianfang-zun," Jiang Wanyin said, slightly mocking.

When Jin Guangyao gauged his expression from under his eyelashes, however, Jiang Wanyin seemed wistful. He looked as young as he was.

(For a moment, Wen Ruohan's laughter filled his mind. "Xiao-zongzhu" had been a common target of derision, in the beginning. Wen Chao's account of the rape of Lotus Pier had been unusually thorough, and its contents were well-known amongst Wen Ruohan's inner circle. Jin Guangyao had not included the details in his reports to either his father or Lan Xichen. He doubted that this discretion would matter at all to Jiang Wanyin, who had tortured Wen Chao at the side of Wei Wuxian. What would he do to Jin Guangyao for being the last to know?)

Choosing to ignore the self-deprecation and memories both, Jin Guangyao instructed Zidian's master on the handling of human children. Jiang Wanyin made an attentive student, but he did not reach to take Jin Ling even once Jin Guangyao finished. "Would you like to hold him?"

Frowning with concentration, Jiang Wanyin nodded and sidled closer. He held his arms as Jin Guangyao had shown him, and then he checked Jin Guangyao's face, seeking approval.

"Good," Jin Guangyao said. Jiang Wanyin didn't smile, but some tension eased. Careful not to touch hands, Jin Guangyao returned Jin Ling to his jiujiu.

The wetnurse's gentle "oh" described the scene well.

Against the black and violet, Jin Ling looked like a ray of sunshine piercing clouds. Jiang Wanyin's face cleared until he looked as delicately beautiful as gossip painted him to be; while Jin Guangyao generally considered him fragile, it was more in the sense of an arrow point designed to break once it pierced flesh. Now, though, he could understand why Jiang Wanyin was so often painted as a mourning lover spurned by the Yiling Laozu.

Then Jin Ling fell asleep, and Jiang Wanyin's eyes watered. He slowly settled onto the couch, careful not to jostle their nephew.

"How long can I stay?"

Ideally, half an incense stick. Jin Guangyao turned to the wetnurse. "Could you please ask Jin-furen to advise us?"

She bowed her head and left.

After a few moments, Jiang Wanyin said, "She needs guards in the room with her. If she can't even tell me I've fucked up, how will she fare against assassins?"

"Gold Scale Tower has many guards," Jin Guangyao began, but Jiang Wanyin snorted.

"Where do you think we are? If some pompous Jin cousin demands Jin Ling, would she say no? Much less someone with weapons drawn."

"As a servant--"

"Jiang servants can and would."

Jin Guangyao smiled. "Is it not true that Jiang servants are entirely comprised of disciples, disciple candidates, and those who failed to cultivate but chose to stay?"

"It's a sect," Jiang Wanyin answered. "Typically, they are operated like sects, yes."

"Gold Scale Tower must run in accordance with its scale," Jin Guangyao said. "The servants are often merely servants."

Jiang Wanyin, whose face displayed his opinion of that, said nothing for a moment, allowing Jin Guangyao to notice his headache. "She needs guards for herself, not just outside of the room," he repeated.

"Perhaps this is something you can address with Jin-furen?"

Looking up from Jin Ling, Jiang Wanyin studied him. "Alright. Is there anything else you want me to say?"

Jin Guangyao's fingers twitched with the desire to straighten his gold robes. "Between Jin-furen and Jiang-zongzhu, I am sure that all concerns have been considered."

"Please, you notice everything and didn't accept one single item I suggested for a-jie's wedding," Jiang Wanyin said. "Do you expect me to believe you don't have opinions on Jin Ling?"

Jin Guangyao inclined his head, and then he tentatively offered an observation and a suggestion. When Jiang Wanyin merely looked thoughtful, Jin Guangyao continued; while Jiang Wanyin occasionally asked clarifying questions, he never reacted emotionally.

It was... strange, to be in a room with this man, discussing the care of a child he wasn't allowed to do anything for. He wondered what he must look like to Jiang Wanyin to be accepted so easily as an expert on Jin Ling, on anything. Unsettling.

Yet unlike Nie Mingjue, being seen didn't seem dangerous; unlike Wen Ruohan, being noticed didn't accompany invitations to violence.

No, Jiang Wanyin observed him, and his conclusion was that Jin Guangyao could teach him how to hold his one treasure.

For the first time, it seemed like sharing a nephew with this man might be interesting, not simply alarming. Jin Guangyao looked forward to observing him further.

#pallas.rtf #mdzs #chengyao #my writing #i've never written from jgy's pov before 🙈 hopefully it's not too wrong #i wanted to show that jgy is the kind of person who is always thinking; always remembering; always connecting threads #you know. the kind of person who won't get dementia because his neural links are too vast and sexy #and also that he's afraid All The Time #anyway. #chengyao real #also that he plays with jiang cheng like a very stupid but cute puppy #this is deeply important to me and my chengyao feelings

[whetstonefires]

So like, I'm pretty darn sure Mo Xuanyu did not actually make a pass at Jin Guangyao.

For several reasons, like for one thing hitting on your own actual brother who is also your boss is genuinely insane behavior, in a way nothing else we know about the guy actually matches, other than his reputation for being crazy which mostly seems to originate from the same point as the sexual harassment allegations. which tracks because even with rampant societal homophobia, that's such a crazy thing to do people would question it if it didn't come paired with the information that he's insane.

Then there's the fact that if that had actually happened, there's basically no way master spin artist jgy would have let it get out, because actually experiencing that would trigger his sense-of-uncleanliness issues so hard.

But what we see is that somehow Everyone Knows that it happened, but also that Jin Guangyao totally didn't tell anyone, because he's too merciful and kind and respectable. It just mysteriously leaked somehow that this private scandal happened.

(Also, to step up a meta level, the gay goth kid who was never quite accepted into his own family and wound up self-destructing was in fact guilty of the homophobic allegations spread by the powerful man who manipulates reputation for personal advantage? This is not the kind of story where that would be true. The thematic dissonance is too much.)

The only way it's believable that mxy made a move on jgy is if jgy spent a long time maneuvering him into it, hinting and deniably flirting and just generally being maximum skeeze, just a huge elaborate incestuous honeypot, just to bait a 'ruined reputation' trap. Which makes no sense at all.

I don't think jgy is necessarily above that kind of creepy grooming behavior but I do think he would hate it, and definitely wouldn't resort to it when sowing rumors would work just as well. and expose him to less risk.

So Mo Xuanyu didn't do it.

So what we've got is that Jin Guangyao systematically obliterated this kid's credibility.

No one would listen to anything he said after being expelled in that sort of context, especially anything against Jin Guangyao, whom he now has obvious motive to smear. This was a preemptive strike against some kind of leak.

It's exactly the kind of thing jgy would do--it targets individual vulnerability, leverages the weak points in Mo Xuanyu's reputation into gaping chasms, in a way that associates jgy with scandal but makes him personally look better. also shows signs of jgy projecting his own issues onto others. The MO fits.

And his motive is easy to construct: Mo Xuanyu had had access to his secrets, such as Wei Wuxian's manuscripts and probably a lot of the other ugly shit. And Jin Guangyao needed him silenced, due to some thing or other, but as with SiSi didn't want to have to kill him.

(A fascinating thing about jgy as a villain is the moments where he yields to sentiment pretty consistently contribute to his destruction.)

But then we come around to: so why didn't Mo Xuanyu sic Wei Wuxian on Jin Guangyao, then?

In cql wwx does have a curse cut for jgy, to keep him in the plot and create an additional open storyline to resolve, since viewers are gonna be denied romantic catharsis, but in cql the homophobia plotline isn't there because all the gay is censored, and mxy allegedly hit on qin su instead. which is less utterly unhinged to do though still big wtf.

In the book, mxy summoned the Yiling Patriarch just to kill the Mos. (Which he didn't even do lmao.)

So I've always been sort of poking at that, like if you're destroying your own soul to get revenge, why spare the person who deliberately ruined your life?

Even if he had done the thing, it was weird! Maybe even weirder; if you're in a headspace where making sexual advances anyone should be able to predict are unwelcome seems like a good idea in the first place, there's a pretty good chance getting punished for them isn't going to make you think you were in the wrong. Otoh there is a zone where he could have done it, gotten the backlash, cleared his head a bit, realized it was fucked up to do, and therefore not held a grudge in that particular direction, but it's still weird. (And also he definitely didn't do the thing.)

But if he was so angry, why was he not angry at Jin Guangyao? Who definitely kicked him out of the Sect, all else aside?

And then I looked at the passage in Jin sect where we swap to Jin Ling's pov and he tells us one of the few first-hand things we hear about Mo Xuanyu: He thought Jin Guangyao was the most amazing person in the whole world. He adored him.

And being betrayed and rejected by him didn't turn that into resentment. Even though he resented the other side of his family enough to want them gratuitously murdered.

So you know what I think happened?

I think Mo Xuanyu thinks it was an honest misunderstanding. That Jin Guangyao, his idol, falsely concluded that his gay little brother was creeping on him based on a misinterpretation of his admiring behavior, and was appropriately revolted. And that Mo Xuanyu doesn't blame him for it. He blames himself.

He went back to his mother's family to rot genuinely feeling like the ruination of his life was his own fault for being creepy. And died like that.

Because of that, to a considerable extent. How can you bend any of your will to saving yourself, to getting out of an abusive situation and seeking a better one, when you don't think you deserve to be saved?

Fucks me up.

#hoc est meum #mdzs #mo xuanyu #meta #internalized homophobia #homophobia #suicide #abuse #gaslighting #the untamed #cql

[lansplaining]

Hi, I followed you because you have a lot to say about jin guangyao and I enjoy reading it. When I first watched cql I thought he was an enetertaining and satisfying villain both to watch and also to watch being taken down in the end. Such drama! Much style! Then I read a lot of meta about him and watched the show again and realised how much he was being set up as a villain without there being much truth there. The more I read/thought about this, the more interesting and sympathetic I found him.

I am still reading more and more points which point out ways in which the ending and jin guangyao's portrayal is misleading - like the post today pointing out that nmj didn't know that jgy had a part in his death, for example. nmj apparently just hated jgy by the end of his life and that was why his fierce corpse kept attacking jgy. I am a little skeptical about that last part - it may be true but I can't help but feel that the hatred was pretty equally shared around which makes blaming any one party pretty pointless.

I really enjoy jgy as a character. I also enjoy nmj and jzx (who you were vague blogging about today) and tbh I love pretty much the whole cast minus a few obvious dickbags like jgs. Before I take what these posts have to say at face value, I guess I wanted to know, how much do you dislike nmj and jzx? Neither the nmj post nor your jzx post come across as though they are characters you (or op) like. I personally love them and as much as I want to learn about jgy and see different sides, I don't really want to read a lot of negative content about characters I love - especially if it's not written in a way that is particularly balanced.

I hope this does not come across as impolite or disrespectful. I think I am feeling a bit defensive but I don't want to be rude or for you to feel upset or angry. The obvious thing to do is for me to say I should agree to disagree and just unfollow if it's too much but that always feels so drastic to me - maybe I am misreading/reading in bad faith!

<3 <3 <3

first of all, i definitely think JGY also hates NMJ by the end. absolutely mutual hatred there, stemming from a range of reasons, justified and otherwise.

i definitely reblog some stuff from people who actively dislike NMJ, so I wouldn't blame you at all for unfollowing me if you don't want to see that! i actually really like him-- i watched CQL first and totally bought it when the Wens lied and said he was dead and was really sad! i think his structural role is so interesting, and in many ways the story only works if he is both a guy you don't know much about, but think is pretty cool from what you do know. then you find out things that paint him in a far less flattering light, but there's a kind of tragedy in that.

i actually quite like jin zixuan as well. again, CQL first, i loved his moment with the swords at evil wen summer camp, this unexpected proof of how his pride could be a good thing, and in fact had some courage to go along with it. i was so so shocked and sad when he died!

what makes me occasionally get salty about NMJ and JZX both (and again, that totally happens, and i don't blame you at all for not wanting to see that) is honestly over-exposure to fanon takes on them, which i feel are overly simplistic and smooth over the things that make them interesting in favor of making them just really nice, stand-up guys. for NMJ in particular, i think you'll often see JGY fans going extra hard on all the things that are bad about NMJ because they/we feel like we're always implicitly pushing back against fandom's love of him with reminders that he did bad things, too.

the JZX thing is just a total personal pet peeve honestly-- i think he's fun and interesting because he's probably not the nicest or most generous person, but he is ride or die for this one lady and, by extension, sometimes her family. but if he was out here wanting to become besties with jin guangyao, he had a whole year+ to do that and... did not do that. that's okay!! he's a more interesting character for being an imperfect guy!!

my favorite characters are lan wangji, jin guangyao, and jiang cheng-- i like my little guys to be an absolute mess and a bit mean and to not make good choices. throw in the desire to-- not exactly defend JGY, but to resist the parts of fandom that paint him as a 2D villain, and the accompanying attempts to discuss/remind people of the ways those characters hurt JGY/are maybe not such good people because of how they treated him, things can absolutely take on a tone where it seems like characters like NMJ and JZX are being disparaged. but for me, i like them more for being imperfect.

(i am kinda Actually Mad at huaisang though)

#ask answered

[leatherbookmark]

making it a separate post because i’d talk forever and it’s annoying to talk forever in the replies--

gnomeicecream replied to this post:

Makes me wonder if Lan Zhan isn't 'remember that time you thought my boyfriend was evil and nearly whipped me to death? I do' then deliberately not helping. He was left alone for what, three years after?

oh dear, now that's material for a loooooong conversation i'm not sure i'm qualified for, but like. i don't think lwj blames lxc for his punishment!

considering what the punishment is for, he kind of got off lightly; on top of that, lwj says in the banquet extra that "during the years i spent in seclusion, brother would always come visit me and talk to me sincerely", implying that now that the situation is reversed, he can't do the same. he has to feel at least a bit regretful/conflicted about that.

the thing that irks me is that... lxc is just a forever afterthought. this line i just quoted is from literally a three lines long post-coital conversation that happens and fizzes out quickly (wwx then doesn’t reply and they just go to sleep). another occasion lxc is mentioned in the extra is at the beginning of part 2, in which wgxn can’t try fucking while lwj’s doing handstands because “lwj has to visit his brother”. i know the book is about wgxn and the extras are even more so -- just a chance for the readers to bask in their adorable life together -- but from my pov (i don’t really care about wgxn’s adorable life together and i’m heartbroken about xiyao) it’s just... sad.

it’s been a while since i’ve read the chapters earlier than the one with the post-burial mounds lotus pier jgy haters conference, so i don’t remember all instances of the gusu twin jades interacting, but i can’t help but think that the whole jgy business kind of... changed it in a way that i’m not sure is salvageable. what i mean is that after lwj realized wwx is back, he sort of -- yeeted him on the very top of his priority list, and forgot everything and everyone else in the process, well, save for lsz because he’s wwx’s Kid Buddy From The Burial Mounds. he trusts and supports wwx completely, even if he has no real empirical reason for it -- wwx says jgy killed nmj, so jgy killed nmj, duh. the jades have their thing with silent communication, but i don’t remember lwj even showing that he’s in any way concerned with how lxc might feel about this.

in the guanyin temple as well -- i believe they do it out of concern for lxc, but i can’t help but feel bitter when wgxn tell lxc not to talk to jgy, not to believe him and so on, when they don’t want jgy to Tangle LXC In His Web Of Lies Again. i don’t know how to put it, but it’s like -- lxc isn’t a full person in this situation? they sort of assume he’s been tricked by jgy. they treat him almost like a child who doesn’t know better, when he says it himself that it’s not that he didn’t know jgy was up to No Good, he just trusted that he was doing it because he had no other choice. no thought is given to this revelation! jgy is bad, jgy is an excellent actor and a skilled manipulator, so it’s best to just not let him talk to lxc at all.

i think that at this point, lwj doesn’t understand lxc at all. i’m not sure whether he’s aware of this, so focused on wwx. probably not. but before he leaves, he doesn’t do anything to even show lxc... anything, really? i’ll be there for you, brother? i don’t understand, but i feel your pain? anything else, just anything! but there’s nothing. and by the time lxc is mentioned next time, it’s in the context of lwj not trying to help him because “it would be fruitless either way”. doesn’t that sound just fucking bleak.

because here, i feel, is the source of the problem, lxc’s crown of the most tragic elder sibling: his little brother doesn’t even know how to help him. there’s nothing he thinks he can do in this situation. does he even have anything to say about jgy, or his relationship with lxc? does he have anything to say about how his beloved helped bring him down? is he sorry about that, does he feel bad that lxc can’t or doesn’t want to face the world?

we just don’t know dot gif.

we do know, though, that at the end of the novel wangxian agree that they’ll tell lxc the truth -- the horrible truth that might make lxc, gasp! realize new things about his friend -- when he asks. which is honestly... well, i think you can guess how i feel about it.

it’s funny, though -- we talk a lot about the yunmeng bros’ reconciliation, is it possible or not, etc, etc, even though through jin ling all things are possible so jot it down. the fact that jl stubbornly points out that jc clearly wanted to say something to wwx -- this, i think, is a hint that they will eventually talk. or at least it would be in a world that i think would make sense; in a world where wwx has relationships other than lwj and the juniors. what should be debated more, i think, is the relationship between the lan brothers. the problem of lxc is often glossed over in fics; of course he leaves seclusion and attends wgxn’s wedding as their first and main shipper&supporter, and of course he finds peace, whatever the fuck it is. but does he really? i think lxc “finding peace” primarily should mean him figuring out what he wants as a person, individual, not “sect leader lan” or “lwj’s big brother”, but he, lan huan courtesy xichen. and i think that one of these things could be... understanding. and i don’t know if lwj can offer him that tbh

#conversating #gnomeicecream #idk if this thing still works but For organization purposes #4 / #5 / #mdzs #shrimp thoughts #i mean. on a logical level i obviously understand this book is primarily about wgxn and their relationship is the most important! really! #and that webnovel writers are underpaid and often write quickly. so maybe mxtx just wanted to get to the Real Meat and then didn't care/ #forgot to add something more about lxc when she was revising the novel #but it's kinda :/ #it's fascinating though how much like... If I Was To Draw A Chart between lwj/lxc/wwx/jgy. there would be many arrows i think #lwj gains and lxc loses his loved person; wwx and his brother have a dramatic heart-baring conversation and even though they part #ways it's obvious that it's not the end of their relationship at all; meanwhile lwj and his brother... do not talk at all and we don't know #what's going to happen to their relationship. am sad. :(

[jgys-hat]

(Disclaimer: This is based on show canon as I haven’t read the book yet!)

I just...think about Nie Huaisang’s character development a lot... Does he ever think about and miss the person he used to be before his brother was killed and he started his years-long revenge plot, when he had people around him who cared for him? Does he resent JGY even more than he already did, for forcing his hand so that he became a cynical manipulator? And then when he kills JGY, that’s the person who effectively raised Jin Ling (alongside Jiang Cheng), who will now end up as leader of his clan before he’s ready, so does he ever think about the fact that he’s now inflicted on this poor kid something quite similar to what was done to him? Does he ever feel guilty about that aspect of it?

And how much more soul-crushing would it be to find out that JGY killed his brother, given that the two even lived under the same roof for some time, and the help JGY gave him after he became clan leader... That would just make you so much angrier. And I think he does have a lot of anger, he just expresses it differently from how his brother did - it’s a smouldering deep-down anger rather than an explosive outburst, but I think it’s still very much there. You’d have to be that angry to persevere for years with that plot, through the Fear that you could be found out at any moment... And he can’t even express it because he’ll end up risking everything he’s worked towards, he has to keep it hidden behind a mask and has nobody he can confide in, and has to spend years acting as the Headshaker when he’s actually been Changed completely.

Like...his quest for revenge ends up with him becoming more like the person he hated - especially as he has to become so adept at hiding his true feelings behind a mask - and it just makes me so sad for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s perfectly aware of this himself, and is bitter about it. And then there’s the fact that after the whole thing, it’s likely the people who know what happened will find it really hard to trust him in the future - there’s always going to be the thought at the back of their minds of: “What if he’s plotting against me right now and I won’t even know it until ten years from now?” I don’t personally think he’d feel inclined to pull something like that again, but I think they would always be wondering... Especially Lan Xichen - you can tell from his face when NHS says “I don’t know” that last time that he’s not sure whether to believe him...

I would just really like to know more about what happens to him post-canon... I love him as a character so much, partly because every single thing about his life gets sadder the more you think about it. I wanted to cheer for him when he pulled off his plan, but at the same time I just think he really needs a hug :((( I want to imagine that eventually he finds some kind of happiness, because he deserves it after everything he goes through, but I think it would take a long time to get there, and there are a lot of things that would never wholly be made Right again. And... I think there would be an element of not quite knowing what to do with himself now he’s succeeded in what he’s set out to do, and no longer has the fear of discovery hanging over his head at all times. I think it would take a while to adjust to that.

#this got really long and he's not even my favourite character #I haven't watched Fatal Journey yet so knowing my luck it invalidates everything I've written here lol #The Untamed #The Untamed meta #Nie Huaisang #NHS #Splash witters

[colorisbyshe]

About WWX loosing control, I think Untamed's storytelling in general can be very on the nose, take how the Wen Clan is portrayed in the novel ( I haven't read the manhua because I disliked it but it retains same plot points I suppose ) , where they have power because they are simply powerful cultivators which is why half the cultivation world is allied with them and that's why they are difficult to defeat when they aim for an expansion, In the Untamed their source of power is evil Yin metal (an element that is completely non existent in the novel) through which they intimidate people ,ngl I found the former a more organic representation of a power struggle , the Wens couldn't have more visual cues to present them as evil villain in the Untamed 😭, they also introduce JGY as a villain right from the start which is also unlike its source material. What I am trying to say is that Untamed makes some things much more obvious so WWX is actually set up for everything and he not at fault for anything is a part of its blunter storytelling of depicting WWX as the perfect victim.

I think another thing to keep in mind is how demonic/ghost cultivation is portrayed in the show vs novel, in the former we see WWX having frequent outbursts and it affects him mentally even without him being in a very compromising situation, it is shown to be a very dangerous and harmful in itself which is unlike how it is portrayed in the novel ( I have been reading through some novel blogs and I came across some very good posts that discuss the titular power and the worldbuilding [1] [2] ) so the loss of control in the novel is because of WWX's attempt at self defense in a very tense situation while using a highly volatile tool, the condition he founds himself in is unjustified in itself and no matter what he does the unjust conditions would keep on accelerating, as JGY said sooner or later he was bound to do a mistake and the society would blame him no matter what he does. I just think the major difference is in the novel WWX isn't a perfect victim and he fights back . And as clichéd as it may sound but the ultimate villain in MDZS is the cultivation world for creating such circumstances .On that tangent Untamed's decision to make LWJ chief cultivator is 😕 like the problem is with the whole system!

I think both adaptions (and possibly the OG novel, going by the manhua, which is admittedly a VERY slapdash adaption, like chapters will end and you can just tell they only adapted... half a scene? a lot of connective tissue is missing) have an issue with being... very on the nose. Like with JGY... it's not enough for him to be scheming, it's not enough for him to have set up his own brother and killed his own father for power/revenge, he ALSO has to be incestuous AND has to be a baby killer. Like... girl, we get it. He's the bastard interloper who wants revenge and power no matter the cost, not caring about innocents, just about his own status and hurt... as a direct narrative foil to WWX who is the accused-bastard interloper who wants to help innocents no matter the personal cost. I get it... I didn't really need to know JGY fucked his sister to like... dislike the dude.

So the Wen Yin Iron thing feels very much the same, it's sooooooooo on the fucking nose BUT I like it, a BIT, because I like how it ties WWX into their story and does provide a level of contrast that is... still on the nose but less so? Like here is WWX dealing with the same/similar power, but AMPLIFIED, and he is using it for good. Showing that it's not the tools you use that corrupt you (like is implied around the Wens) but rather the desire to use the tools for abusive power... is the corrupting force.

But you're right, this does sort of end up making WWX into this perfect victim who is always makign the right choices. But IMO the OG story still... kind of does that anyways? Like... he wasn't wrong to fight back at the ambush, Jin Zuxian interfering while he's in the middle of fighting off his clan members was never gonna end well. And him losing control at Nightless City was just a response to like... society traumatizing him and killing innocents. He's lashing back at oppressors and victimizers. He's more an imperfect victim in this context but still... ultimately always in the right or at least very close to it. So... there's pros and cons to both adaptions.

But I do like the sort of implication that no matter what WWX did to defend the Wens, he was always gonna be blamed for whatever went wrong, even when it was just a reaction to all the clans being oppressive forces or catering to said oppressive forces. There was genuinely nothing he could do that would be "correct" enough while also saving innocents. Both manage to set up the entire cultivation society as "the villain," both doing... extremely on the nose imo.

But, yeah, I hate the LWJ as chief cultivator thing too, that's one of my biggest issues. I think the story really struggled with "Here's a criticism of this entire society, here's the story going out of its way to show the issue with creating a power vaccuum, and uh... fuck... uh... here's how we solve it???"

IDK how the novel ends because the manhua is only up to the confrontation with JGY and I am nooot reading the novel but imo a bleak ending... isn't... much better?

I like to just plug my ears to it all and make up an ending where there is a looong, loong fight to wrestle power out of the cultivator society's hands in general, where like... society isn't ruled by what is effectively military force (cause in many ways... that's what the cultivation clans are) and things are much more equal.

But that's a whole other thing and also I need more caffeine rn. I also do need to sit on this a bit more.

#mdzs posting #its interesting to cmopare and contrast the adaptions #cause each one has its own clumsy storytelling #where there's no real perfect solution to fully improve it #imo a perfcet rendition of this story would end up being a hybrid of both

[annalacerda17]

YZY really was a horrible mother who failed to instill even the barest hint of morality in her son (then again, she herself didn't have any morals either). Instead she gave him a combination of superiority complex and victim mentality that resulted in a grown man who was incapable of functioning normally in human society.

She taught JC that being born a sect heir made him inherently superior, that his social position meant his opinions were automatically the most right regardless of the truth of things, that he was deserving of blind loyalty, that he was entitled to the acknowledgement of others, that he is inherently better and in every way and therefore deserves better, that what others give him and do for him are things he is entitled to, and that he doesn't need to reciprocate. This is the base of JC's self perception, as well as the reason he is incapable of growth.

However, there is a discrepancy between JC's self perception, born out of the beliefs instilled in him by his mother, and that he chose to embrace, and factual reality.

The thing is, JC isn't the best even within his own sect, and also not outside of it. Even as a child, he couldn't make friends before WWX's arrival at Lotus Pier because JC wasn't likeable even back then. WWX, despite not being born a sect heir was always more talented and better liked than JC, for good reason. In the real world, true loyalty needs to be earned, and relationships of any kind are a two way street. In the novel, I can't recall a single instance when JC was in the right, either.

The sharp contrast between JC's self perception and reality resulted in the victim mentality JC displays all throughout the novel. When his father rightfully tries to teach him that saying WWX should've let the other clan heirs and fellow cultivators die is wrong, JC chooses to believe that the fault is not in himself for saying something any functioning human his age would be able to recognize as wrong, rather, he chooses to believe his father tried to teach him because he doesn't like JC. No need to make sense, so long as the blame can be tossed to someone else.

WWX is more talented, a better person and also better liked than JC since their youth, and JC doesn't like that. However, JC also refuses to make any effort to get along with others, and never seems to think he should work harder in general. Instead, he senselessly blames WWX for being morally upright, a genius and a likeable person as if it was a sin to be those things.

When JC was faced with a life debt, he refused to inconvenience himself in any way to repay it. Instead, he blamed the ppl who helped him for needing help, blamed WWX for helping them in his place and proceeded to kill his both his saviours and WWX.

After WWX's death, JC spent 13 years torturing and killing anyone who reminded him of WWX, and from JC's own words we know he was obsessed with proving he was better than WWX. In other words, he wanted to be rid of the proof that his beliefs about himself were bullshit.

And no, his problem wasn't with demonic cultivation, because during the SSC JC had no problem with it and even encouraged WWX to use it. And when JGS and JGY had XY experiment with demonic cultivation and reconstruct the Stygian Tiger Seal, JC didn't have anything to say about it. And this was something that was well known since even LWJ knew it, and we're told JGY made a show of saying XY had been executed and the STS destroyed once he became sect leader in an attempt to distance himself from it in the eyes of the cultivation world.

After becoming sect leader JC refused to help ppl unless it would bring him glory, even within Yunmeng, a place he was responsible for protecting.

JC can't find a wife because he expects the other person to put up with his shit, to never bother him with their shit, to be accommodating to his needs without him ever having to do the same for them. His view of relationships (romantic or otherwise) are so self centered that JC ends up being incapable of maintaining any relationship at all.

Relationships of any kind are about reciprocity, and that's something both JC and YZY are fundamentally incapable of.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jiang cheng #madam yu

[plan-d-to-i]

What's your opinion on JYL and JFM? I've seen a few say they were just as bad to WWX for not doing much to defend him, especially against Madam Yu, or like when JYL apologized to the Jins on his behalf.

I think the novel doesn't mean them to be seen as bad people just weak. I think I'm more defensive of JFM because fandom is really hard on him, while he was stuck in a terrible situation himself with his wife. The only way you can come out on top w YZY is to never fucking interact w her. To never marry her in the first place ideally. And he tried!

He didn’t like Yu ZiYuan’s conduct and felt that the two wouldn’t be an appropriate match. He had politely refused the offer a handful of times. However, the MeishanYu Sect set about multiple factors, putting pressure on Jiang FengMian, who was at the time still fairly young and had nothing to lean on. Along with the fact that, not long later, ZangSe SanRen had become cultivation partners with the most loyal servant at Jiang FengMian’s side, Wei ChangZe, and rode off into the sunset, roaming around the world, Jiang FengMian finally gave up.

Meishan Yu literally schemed behind the scenes to force JFM to marry this bitch so rip JFM you really pulled the short straw in life. Once he married she's not the type of person he can tell what to do.

Madam Yu, “What am I doing here? What a joke that I am asked of such a thing! Sect Leader Jiang, do you still remember that I’m also the leader of Lotus Pier? Do you still remember that every inch of the earth here is my territory? (Chapter 56)

Much like how JGS can't stop Madam Jin from beating the shit out of JGY... JFM tries to end WWX's punishments early, but he's doesn't seem capable of banning YZY from punishing him entirely. Although JFM is kind to WWX I don't see any favoritism. Correcting jc's behavior when it's wrong is not in fact showing favoritism towards WWX. & ultimately as WWX concludes later on regarding the Wen sibs:

Just as Wen Qing said, if Wen Chao truly wanted to kill anyone, it was unlikely for Wen Qing to be able to stop him. Perhaps she’d be affected as well. After all, children of others could never compare to children of one’s own.” (Chapter 60)

No matter how much he likes WWX, WWX is not his own son. JFM's last interaction with WWX is to ask him to care for jc.

As for YanLi I wrote about her more at length here. I think a lot of ppl in this fandom project really hard on her, so they get very defensive over what is a kindly but mediocre person who benefits from a heaping helping of privilege and WWX's rosy view. To be clear I don't think you're supposed to hate her in the novel. I think she's forgettable. The person who didn't quite catch WWX when he jumped from the tree. The mother of Jin Ling and the person who consistently showed WWX some crumbs of warmth in the Jiang household.

It's this fandom that made her into a soup goddess of goodness lmao. Personally I think it's absurd when they act like YanLi's not responsible for her own ignorance or choices. Like someone locked her in the attic and she didn't know what money or war refugees were. They try to blame the society she was raised in for why her ass only knew how to make soup and it's like... Her mother is YZY. Can't stand YZY but there's no way in hell she wanted her daughter making soup and not training or educating herself. Or that JFM was tyrannical and wouldn't let her do what she wanted. All this to say it's YanLi's own flipping choice to stay not knowing. So she'll always fall short in my eyes, compared to Wen Qing or Mianmian. And again people act like she was so helpless and no one would let her speak, yet:

“Jin ZiXun’s face was dark, but he didn’t respond. There were two reasons. First, he had never seen Jiang YanLi step up and talk before, so he didn’t know how strong his reply should be. Both Madam Jin and Jiang Cheng held Jiang YanLi in high regard, and he didn’t dare rashly go against them." (Chapter 73)

“The people who gathered around Jin ZiXun had on the same dark faces as he did. Yet, taking into consideration Jiang YanLi’s background, they didn’t dare talk back to her directly.” (Chapter 73)

“If the one currently saying these words wasn’t Jiang YanLi and instead some random person, Jin ZiXun would probably have come at them with a slap already. His face was almost black, but he kept his mouth shut.” (Chapter 73)

Ahhhh... look at all that privilege. No one reprimands YanLi for speaking up. Sharp fucking contrast to Mianmian. YanLi just doesn't want to speak up. She wants her wedding to go off without a hitch. She wants WWX to exclaim over her pretty dress and play nice with jiang cheng and probably stop w his foolishness w the Wen Remnants. Ig she thinks the mental image of her in her wedding dress will be much more filling than meals or funds. Ironically when jc, WWX & the other disciples were headed to the Wen indoctrination camp she loaded them w snacks, so maybe she gets how supplies work. She just didn't think WWX would need any when he was possibly starving on the corpse filled mountain.

Jiang YanLi saw them off, staying with them road after road. She filled everyone’s arms with all sorts of snacks, afraid that they’d starve at the QishanWen Sect. Clothes brimming with food, the twenty boys set off from Lotus Pier. (Chapter 51).

guess she's not sheltered enough to not understand how starving works... interesting. Luckily it's not my eyes she's being judged through and WWX certainly remembers her fondly. However he's not wracked with guilt about her death as fandom often portrays him- and rightly so bc it was her own harebrained ass that stumbled on a battlefield unarmed, and untrained and asked the guy everyone was attacking to stop fighting.

#mdzs #answers #Jiang YanLi

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 25, part one

(Masterpost) (Other Canary Stuff)

Warning: Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

Holy crap, Episode 25! We’re halfway through! *Cue Bon Jovi*

Hunt Invitation

After taking a nice long break to watch Word of Honor pick lotus pods, Wei Wuxian and Jiang Yanli return to stressing over the shitshow that is the post-Sunshot cultivation world. Jin Zixuan has come to invite them to the Phoenix Mountain Hunt, with a special invitation from his mother to Jiang Yanli. Jiang Cheng reacts to this in a mature and reasonable manner, while Wei Wuxian...doesn't.

On the surface, Jiang Cheng has matured in recent months; much more than Wei Wuxian, with his secret burdens, has. But it's only on the surface, as we'll see later in the episode, when Jiang Cheng's insecurity will take the reins.

Jin Zixuan is adorably pleased by Jiang Yanli's acceptance of the invitation. Wei Wuxian is less pleased, but sort of tries to suck it up. 

Jin Zixuan kind of undercuts the romance of his errand by asking Wei Wuxian for the Yin tiger amulet as soon as Jiang Yanli is out of earshot. 

As always, Jin Zixuan makes an impression by being the best Jin currently in existence, but the Jins are terrible. JZX is working to advance his dad's ambitions, and as such he is currently Wei Wuxian's enemy.  

(more after the cut)

Opening Ceremonies

There's a bunch of cultivators arranged for the opening ceremony. Later someone will say that this is more than 5 thousand people. Ok, sure.

As I've said before, it's best to think of it like a theatre production and assume the other 4,900 people are offstage or, you know, painted on the backdrop.  

The young lead cultivators from the four main clans are standing together. Nie Huaisang is trying out some new body armor.

The clan leaders are seated up on the stage, along with Jin Furen and Jiang Yanli. Unfortunately Jin Furen doesn't seem to have a personal name that I can discover. Her title Fūrén ( 夫人)  means she's the primary wife of the head of the family, according to this excellent meta. 

So “Madame Jin” is a decent translation...if you're French?  I feel like instead of English subtitles including borrowed words from French (”Marquis” in NIH), Greek (”Water of Lethe” in WOH), and other European languages, we could try borrowing Chinese words instead. Jin Zixuan's mom is titled, not named, Jin Furen. Since we don’t know her actual name, I'll call her that and abbreviate it JFR.

Wei Wuxian's childishness continues at the opening of the hunt, as does Jiang Yanli's encouragement of his childishness. I know she's had a rough couple of years, and it's understandable to want to baby her little brother out of a sense of nostalgia. But it's not good for him, and she shouldn't do it; she should encourage him to be more mature, just as she does with Jiang Cheng.

War Crimes Contest

Jin Guangyao says they're going to have an archery competition, and they're going to liven it up by endangering some prisoners. These prisoners are Wens in Wen cultivator uniforms, meaning they're not the noncombatants that were being hunted down earlier. But they’re still helpless people in chains. 

There are three different reactions when the Wen prisoners are brought out.  All the Jins are pleased, or neutral. All of the Jiangs, including Wei Wuxian, are upset.

The Nies and the Lans, what we see of them, are a little shocked, but not obviously upset. Based on those reactions, it seems like this is a maneuver that in-world is considered shocking and cruel, but not necessarily unethical or immoral.  Shocking, cruel displays of power are pretty normal in this world; remember when Wen Chao lit a Lan cultivator on fire just to say hello, and nobody complained? 

This whole scenario, of course, has been designed to provoke Wei Wuxian. One major goal of this event, and the whole reason for wanting Wei Wuxian to come,  is to get the Yin Tiger amulet.  Making him lose his shit in front of 100 5000 cultivators is a good step toward compelling him to hand the amulet over.  

We see Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli both signaling Wei Wuxian to keep it together, and he takes a step back and tries to chill.  

Meanwhile, Jin Zixuan seems annoyed by all this, and goes to take a shot at it, making it clear from his demeanor that this is easy and JGY is making a show of nothing. 

He hovers in the air and makes a perfect shot, pleasing most of the crowd and impressing Jiang Yanli. 

Then his cousin Jin Zixun taunts the crowd, challenging anyone to do better.  This presents a bit of a problem for Wei Wuxian. For the sake of the Wen prisoners, Wei Wuxian should just take this taunting and let the contest end, if no-one else is willing to take a shot. But for the sake of the Jiang Clan’s status, and his continued control of the Yin Tiger amulet, he needs to put the Jins in their place.  

Every Day is Blindfold Day

This moral dilemma is resolved with an abrupt tonal shift, where the humanitarian concerns of all parties seem to vanish. Wei Wuxian flirts embarrassingly with Lan Wangji and then goes as far over the top in besting Jin Zixuan as it's possible to go.

The flirting hits differently, incidentally, when you edit Jiang Cheng's annoyed reaction out of it: 

Lan Wangji doesn't seem embarrassed by Wei Wuxian's request, despite it happening in front of 100 5000 of their fellow cultivators. He looks Wei Wuxian straight in the eye for longer than necessary before turning away; it’s not exactly stern disapproval. We’ll get very used to this look, in Wei Wuxian’s second life. 

Fortunately, Wei Wuxian carries a blindfold with him wherever he goes, (gifset here), and he is such a good cultivator he can hit 5 parallel targets simultaneously without even holding his bow straight or tightening the string.

(OP fixed the angle of the bow for this gif, which is why everyone is standing on a hill in the background).

Everyone is pleased by this shot except Jins Guangyao and Zixun; even the Jin cultivators are clapping, and Madame Jin is presumably this happy any time Jin Guangyao’s plans go wrong.

With that they start the hunt. Jin Zixun challenges Wei Wuxian to do the whole hunt blindfolded. Wei Wuxian agrees, but the censorship committee said no, apparently, so we don’t get to see that.

Flute Hunting

We do get to see Wei Wuxian luring monsters into his nets by being too sexy for his robe, too sexy for his robe, and playing the flute.  

We also get to see Jiang cultivators looking puzzled while random monster roars happen in the woods around them. We do not get to see any monsters, which is probably just as well.

Jiang Cheng is annoyed and concerned, muttering "I told you not to overdo it" which means he didn't, you know, tell Wei Wuxian NOT to do this, just not to do it quite so well. Jiang Cheng knows what Wei Wuxian’s abilities are and he is making use of him, as he should, but he doesn’t have the courage of his convictions. 

Tree Confession

Wei Wuxian sees Lan Wangji and starts to say hi, but then he has a desaturated flashback to Lan Xichen telling him to back off, so he stops himself.  But then Lan Wangji comes over to talk to him.

Lan Wangji starts off talking to him about his latest anti-resentment musical discoveries, and Wei Wuxian pushes back, even calling him Lan Wangji, but gently.  Wei Wuxian asks "who am I to you?" and Lan Wangji turns the question right back at him, then waits a looooooong time, eyes downcast, while Wei Wuxian thinks of a serious answer.

Wei Wuxian says "I used to treat you as my zhījǐ" --which, as we’ve discussed before, is variously translated soulmate, confidant, intimate friend--with a strong meaning of "the person who truly knows me." Lan Wangji says "I still am." Coming from Lan Wangji, who NEVER says how he feels about Wei Wuxian or about anything, really, this sounds a lot like a confession of love. 

It definitely takes the form, visually, of a love confession, as Lan Wangji speaks, then gazes at Wei Wuxian while he waits for a reply.  Wei Wuxian's reply is this:

I don't think Wei Wuxian is oblivious (I'm speaking strictly of CQL, not MZDS, as always with these posts; they are different works). I think he loves Lan Wangji back, and knows it. But Chenqing and everything it represents are between them.

Lan Wangji is quite literally NOT his zhījǐ any more, because he doesn't truly know Wei Wuxian right now. He loves him desperately, but he doesn't know about his core, and hasn't accepted his cultivation method.  So Wei Wuxian answers his confession by showing him Chenqing, effectively declining to accept his still-conditional love.

Snake Measuring

Next we get terrible hetero courtship in the form of Jin Zixuan finding snake discharge on the ground and talking to Jiang Yanli about comparative snake measuring. Seriously: that is the actual conversation that they are having.

Jin Zixuan boasts for a bit, and then awkwardly tries to ask Jiang Yanli on a date. When she turns him down he gets mad, because he's a typical heterosexual dude even though he's secretly a delightful person...very, very secretly. Jiang Yanli, for her part, can't string a fucking sentence together to save her life whenever he's around, so she's not helping their mutual understanding. 

Lan Wangji attempts to hold Wei Wuxian back from beating Jin Zixuan’s ass yet again, but eventually JYL wants to leave, JZX tells her to wait, and WWX intervenes. Why doesn't Jiang Yanli have a maid or Jiang cultivator with her while she's on a date, incidentally? These kids are confused about whether they're doing feudal patriarchy or whether they're doing modern social life.

Jin vs. Jiang

Wei Wuxian jumps in between Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan, which JZX objects to. Jin Zixuan has no fucking business objecting and Wei Wuxian is 100% right, at this point. As soon as WWX shows up JZX should hand her off to her Shidi, bow, and leave her the fuck alone. Instead, he draws his sword on Wei Wuxian, and kind of on Jiang Yanli since she's right behind Wei Wuxian.  Fortunately, Lan Wangji blocks him. 

This instantly blows up into a Jiang-Jin Clan conflict, with Jiang Cheng unfortunately absent since he let his unmarried sister go off in the woods alone with the son of the Cultivaton world's most famous lecher. It looks like it’s a personal conflict, but since Jin Zixuan already told Wei Wuxian directly that Jin Guangshan wants his amulet, any arguments between them are part of a larger power struggle. 

Cousin Jin Zixun comes running up to start shit. Wei Wuxian pretends--I am SURE he's pretending--not to know who he is. The dude hassles Wei Wuxian every time he sees him; Wei Wuxian is a troll, and right now CJXZ is butting in to something that doesn't concern him. Rather than argue, Wei Wuxian insults him by telling him he’s not memorable.

Jin Furen shows up with several maids and cultivator dudes in tow, which is the proper way for a highborn woman to wander around in the woods. She also brings Clan Leader Yao, because if it's Wei Wuxian Blaming Hours, Yao is going to be there.  

I initially found the deep friendship between superhot Yi Zuyuan and dumpy Jin Furen implausible, but then I remembered that my lifelong bestie is a smokin' hot redhead with impeccable fashion sense, while I am a roly-poly nerd.  Friends don’t always match. Also, Jin Furen's actress, Hu Xiaoting, looks like this: 

...so she is actually hot in real life. Not as hot as Zhang Jingtong (who plays Yu Ziyuan) but literally nobody is as hot as Zhang Jingtong. Don't @ me, you know I'm right.

This is a heck of a long scene, so we’ll pick it up in part two! 

Soundtrack: Livin’ on a Prayer by Bon Jovi

Writing prompt: Newly-divorced, cold-hearted CEO Yu Ziyuan buys an apartment next door to newly-divorced, warm-hearted pastry chef ...uhh let's call her Jin Dàngāo (蛋糕), sure. She can name her business after herself. 

They discover their daughter & son are in the same college class, and so they meet up over coffee....several times...trying to matchmake their hopeless, hapless kids, while bonding over their own terrible (former) taste in husbands. Who will Cupid strike first, the kids or the moms?

#the untamed #the untamed gifs #wangxian #restless rewatch the untamed #canary3d-original #my gifs

[attilarrific]

God you write JGY POV so well! The layers of truth and artifice, each scaffolding the other, that make up his personality and the face he shows the world are honestly so perfectly conveyed that I'm a little shaken. I'm seriously green with envy. This is my model for how to properly write Jin Guangyao!

This makes me SO HAPPY, thank you! Jin Guangyao is one of my favorite characters, and I have Very Specific opinions about his characterization.

(I feel like in fic that's sympathetic to him, he often gets softened too much? And even in fic that keeps a lot of his nastiness, there's a tendency to translate it to something that makes more sense to us and is more palatable---I can't tell you how many times I've read fic where Jin Guangyao demonstrates an unwillingness to show weakness, because that's a more normal trait for characters who lie so often. But Jin Guangyao loves showing weakness. It's often his first tactic when things get rough for him, because it lowers your guard. Jin Guangyao wants sympathy; Jin Guangyao wants to be liked.)

And Jin Guangyao's a fascinating character to write from the perspective of, because he so often manipulates people with the truth, so there's a really weird tension with that---"perfect true lie" is a phrase I'm actually quite pleased with, because it kind of gets into the weirdness there. He's an extremely unreliable narrator, because on the one hand, he's explicitly and definitely using his vulnerability to get the reactions he wants out of Wei Wuxian and Lan Xichen, but on the other hand, he is actually feeling vulnerable! But he thinks of it as a lie, because he's using it to manipulate them! But if he'd demonstrated those honest emotions without the intent, he would've gotten the same reactions! But it is deliberate emotional manipulation, and he isn't being honest about that! And on and on.

And then you get stuff like him thinking "wow, it's so good that Qin Su would do anything for me," which put another way is literally just "wow, it's so nice that my sister loves me." But he can't stop thinking of relationships as transactional, and so you get all this filtered through several layers of analysis, because he's low-key always thinking about what the right thing to say to get the right reaction is.

Er, this got long. I just have a lot of very strong opinions about Jin Guangyao's brain! Thank you so, so much for saying you like my characterization of him, it is clearly something I have thought about A Lot.

#attila replies to things

[coffintownkids]

Alrighty, I've finished up with ch.39 and before I move on to the next chapter, I just wanted to share a few more lines that made me go feral.

Unlike in the show, the book allows us to 'listen in' on what WWX thinks of everything as he experiences the Empathy memories.

Despite being covered in blood and a mess from head to toe, a lazy, pleased smile appeared on his face, “You’re not going to ask who I am, daozhang? Why I got injured so badly?”

If he were in this person’s position, he would be careful to shy away from topics like this, lest he gave away clues about his identity. Yet he deliberately did the opposite of what was expected and brought it up intentionally.

Hmm...Almost made me wonder if some part of XY wanted to get caught. He'd lost his benefactor after all, with JGY turning on him. He was already close to dying so maybe he just wanted to say 'fuck it,' but who knows? WWX certainly doesn't get why he'd even bring it up.

Later in the chapter, after AQ tries to convince XXC that their new roommate is bad news, XXC had this to say.

No one would willingly stay with us in this coffin house.

You played yourself, daozhang.

Outside the coffin house, Xiǎo Xīngchén said, “Your injury hasn’t healed. Could it be that you’ve been ignoring what I said and walking around all this time?”

Xuē Yáng said, “The more I move, the faster I’ll get better. Not to mention that I didn’t break both of my legs. I’m used to being injured this much and being beaten this badly.”

Xiǎo Xīngchén didn’t know how he should take that, if he should be comforting him or treat it as a joke. He paused for a moment, saying, “Oh…”

That's a big yikes, buddy.

On a lighter note, there is this part.

Xuē Yáng was rather eloquent and quite witty, with his humor being having a bit of street cheekiness to it. Xiǎo Xīngchén must have seldom come in contact with people like him before, as he was unable to handle his jokes for more than a few sentences before he started laughing.

So I'll explain this part a little. XY's sense of humor is written as 点放肆的市井气. 放肆 is something that means sort of unbridled or unfiltered. Kind of impertinent or irreverent. 市井气 more literally means like "having a marketplace atmosphere." More colloquially, it can mean to have a sort of 'urbanity' but I've always found that to be a really pretentious word lol. Basically, I think a good way to sum it up is think of someone like the Artful Dodger from Oliver Twist. He's got this sort of street smart vibe to him. And XXC is Oliver in this case and is very taken in by someone that is so different from anyone else he knows.

Xuē Yáng had endured serious injuries and had nearly lost his life. There was also the score Xiǎo Xīngchén had to settle with him that dated back years. It could be said that things were utterly irreconcilable between the two. Nowadays, he thought he couldn’t wait to make Xiǎo Xīngchén bleed to death from all seven orifices. On the surface, however, he could still joke around with him. If it was actually Wèi Wúxiàn hiding beneath the window, the fact of the matter was that he would have killed Xuē Yáng without a second thought. He’d do anything to avoid the trouble that was coming. There was nothing he could do, as this was not his body and Ā-Qìng was also powerless.

Approximately one month later, Xuē Yáng’s wounds were nearly healed due to Xiǎo Xīngchén painstakingly nursing him back to health. Aside from walking with a bit of a limp, there were no other major issues. Yet he never brought up the matter of him leaving. He was still crammed into the coffin house with the other two, who had no idea what he was planning.

Fellas, is it gay to get nursed by your arch nemesis and decide to live in domestic bliss without saying a word about it?

So the specific term used in XY's violent daydream is qīqiào, which refers to the mouth, both eyes, both nostrils, and both ears. It comes up a lot in the genre, but English sure lacks a term for it...Also, XY also played himself. He'll get around to committing these terrible acts of violence to XXC's person any day now. Also, love seeing WWX still having his own darker tendencies.

It's also fascinating that WWX, who is currently living in MXY's body, once again loses his physical agency again by being in AQ's body. That in itself probably deserves its own post.

One day, Xiǎo Xīngchén looked after Ā-Qìng and sent her to bed, then went leave a Night Hunt. Xuē Yáng’s voice suddenly called out, “Daozhang, how about you bring me with you tonight?”

His throat should have been healed well before now, yet he was deliberately continuing to not use his actual voice while successfully mimicking the other voice. Xiǎo Xīngchén smiled, “That definitely wouldn’t work. I’ll start laughing the moment you open your mouth and I won’t keep my sword steady.”

Xuē Yáng pitifully said, “Then I won’t talk. I’ll carry your sword on my back and act as your support. Don’t give me the cold shoulder.”

He was accustomed to having to act like a spoiled child and talking to people older than him as if he were their little brother. And Xiǎo Xīngchén seemed to have had shīmèi and shīdì when he was part of Bàoshān-sànrén’s sect and was naturally seeing him as his junior. Plus he knew he was a fellow cultivator, so he gladly agreed.

HAHAHA, XY acting like a spoiled brat sends me to another plane of existence. You just know he picked up the habit from whining at JGY. Also XXC seeing XY as his shīdì in a way was not something I remembered at all.

This post got a bit away from me, so I'll end things here. Onward to chapter 40!

#mdzs #ctk reads mdzs #mdzs translation #my translation #xue yang #xiao xingchen #yi city

[lansplaining]

Where did the idea that LXC saw into the depths of JGY’s soul come from? Why do so many people disagree with mxtx’s claim that he’s just sweet, pure and oblivious? I low key ship xiyao but sometimes I’m confused by the popular fanon for the ship.

Hmmm, MXTX's description of LXC is one of those things that I am hesitant to comment on because I think there are some things lost in translation, and I don't speak Chinese. I think I read once (and I tried to find the post and can't, of course) that that was less in reference to his basic intelligence and more to the fact that while the novel was coming out, people kept expecting LXC to turn out to be some kind of mastermind. But I may be wrong!

And anyway, I think the two aren't necessarily related. To me, the idea is less that LXC sees into JGY's soul and more that in private, in scenes we never see, JGY shows LXC a version of himself that LXC thinks is the true one, and I'd argue JGY also thinks-- or at least hopes-- is the version of himself he'd most like to be.

Most xiyao shippers want to think that LXC isn't just being obliviously manipulated by JGY-- we want to think he truly believes in what he's seeing, and that he's largely right. (if we wanted manipulation, we'd ship xuexiao) I think some of the extremity of the xiyao shippers' push in favor of LXC's insight into JGY's personality is in resistance to the also popular fandom idea that clearly he was just a dupe and everything JGY told him was a lie, which he believed because he's just a lovely himbo.

I'd also argue that canon suggests that the version of JGY that LXC is seeing is not entirely some sugar-coated fantasy. He knows that he was a torturer and spy for Wen Ruohan. It's heavily implied he knows about a lot of the things JGS was asking JGY to do, though, for example, he probably didn't know (in novel canon) the extent of Xue Yang's demonic cultivation torture ranch. LXC doesn't need some superhuman insight to see who JGY is, his affection is based in trust: he trusts that JGY is a person who has reasons for doing the things he does, because in LXC's experience, he always has. That's part of what makes the end of canon so devastatingly hard for LXC: there could yet be an explanation. He'll never know.

I think part of the fantasy of xiyao as a ship is this idea of being known and liked for the worst parts of yourself, so it makes sense to me that the fanon warps a little bit into LXC being the person who's able to see past JGY's well-honed defenses, which naturally requires extremely good insight because JGY's a great liar. But I'm with you on finding this dynamic not quite right. JGY shows himself to LXC. Whether the version of himself that he shows is one that can be trusted in the end is the question that torments LXC, too-- but of course, I think that it is.

#ask answer #jgy #lxc

[wifiwuxians]

I feel like xue yang is a character who would be hesitant to reveal the things he likes to someone or even the things he wants because of course, knowing what someone wants is equal to having leverage over them and is sort of like handing someone a weapon and showing them where to cut to make the most damage. I think that then, considering that, the fact that xue yang disclosed to xxc about the candy and what happened to him as a child (and a qing too, but I think as a child herself, a qing would be indignant about what happened in a way that children are when perceiving injustices, whereas xxc would understand the effect an event like that would have on a child and respond kindly rather than with anger), he's sort of baring his neck to xxc - it's not just candy, it's a euphemism for naivety, for innocence, for a sweetness that xue yang couldn't have - and then xxc's response, giving xue yang the candy, is almost his own tentative form of offering himself to xue yang as a source of kindness, a relief from the pain.

Which is why I think xue yang was so obsessed with bringing xxc back. I dont think it was love at all, rather I think xue yang was almost addicted to xxc and the relief he gave him, much like an addict is addicted to drugs. That relationship was self destructive and more of a facade than anything else, and even while knowing this, xue yang still dared to find solace in something he couldnt have - in this way he mimicked his past self, the child on the road with a hand on the ground and a cart driving towards it with no intentions of stopping.

Ah, this is probably just me rambling, but it's a hot take I guess :)

I don't think it should be a hot take, I think you're onto something! The way I've always seen it has been that, despite how much he says he isn't stuck in the past, he has a desire to live out what he never had but somehow stumbled upon by accident. Does he deserve it? Absolutely not. Will he admit to even wanting it? Absolutely not. And yet it's plain as day.

I'm not sure I'd call it an addiction outright (since I don't wanna give people ANY AMMO LMAO) but it is very, very close. It's the fulfilment of a childhood wish! It's security and hope and a relief from pain. He has someone who cares about him and the life he deserves (or that he thinks he deserves shh) and everything is sunshine and rainbows. His little kid self, buried deep inside and locked away under layers of being a total dick, must be jumping for joy.

And then he blows it all up.

He can't even admit to himself that of course he'd like for things to go back to the way they were, because to do so would be to admit weakness, right? He has to cling to the image of someone who has no care for another and no interest in people outside of what he can use them for.

Omg okay my friend @aoxue and I literally talked about this the other day, how it genuinely could have been anyone. It just happened to be xxc. But like, anyone who showed xy kindness and lenience and patience, who cared for him as a parent or elder sibling would, would've received this twisted loyalty. I mean, jgy supposedly beats him to death and he still calls him a friend, right? It's just part of his character!

But there comes the interesting aspect of the undeniable hatred he has/had for xxc. How does he combat those two things, hating him and everyone like him yet wanting to be cared for? He mellows out for a good while but still doesn't hesitate to douse the coffin home on fire with everyone inside. He's just such a wretched person that he can't even just say, idk, "Hey I'm looking to restore his soul as a personal favor", no, he's still trying to cling to that hatred because let's be real, it hurts a lot less than to have to admit that you killed the only person who kind of cared about you.

"You" being "the person you pretended to be for years" and not "Xue Yang" bc we all know xxc doesn't care about him at all ekfjskcmsg

STILL... Oh no now I'm the one who is rambling. Anyways thank you for the ask! It's refreshing to see a point of view that doesn't rely on romantic love for once and I think you're very correct, and I also think xxc just has such a nurturing presence that it would've been impossible for xy not to end up conflicted about him in some regard

Closing thoughts I guess are that xy as a character within canon is frustrating because you see him have all these chances to just pack it up and be decent and he just throws it all in the trash. He can't even recognize affection within himself. He throws himself and everyone he refuses to admit he cares for under the wheels of that same ox cart from all those years ago, and it sucks.

#xue yang #THANKS FOR THE ASK IM GLAD SOMEONE IS PLAYIN #Also his missed opportunity big bro little sis dynamic with a-qing... SUCH A WASTE #Hate when fandom tries to pretend he didn't care at all for her HE DID HE'S JUST CRAZY AND STUPID #Xy character traits not listed here are an inability to express gratitude #And a tendency to cling to first impressions

[vrishchikawrites]

JC's condemnation of WWX and the recent discussion about Lan Xichen made me wonder about how both characters failed their brothers (JC obv more than LXC) and the entire discussion about how things could've changed if JC had stood by WWX.

And that made me wonder of a scenario where Xichen for the sake of his brother, actually tightens his belt and visits WWX in the Burial Mounds- would that have made an effect? After all LXC doesn't know WWX at all and only through second hand accounts at this point so why not actually DO something about it.

Honestly i wonder about a comparison between LXC and Jiang Fengmian where both characters are the wait-and-see type and do the bare minimum of courtesy but never proactive enough to bring about a change or raise their voice. I don't dislike these sort of characters because they still feel better then the ones who accuse and vilify and have no control over their emotions, but they also feel like a cautionary tale of being too mild and trying to make everyone happy but failing completely.

I know everyone says LWJ is suppressed but sometimes I think LXC is worse. LWJ is eventually honest with himself but I feel like LXC lies to himself a LOT. So much that he actually believes it. Always smiling. Always unruffled. The First Jade of Lan.

The cast is so big it's a bit hard to think about all characters so i've liked/been neutral about LXC for a while. I have to admit though that in many many fanfics he basically exists only to give shovel talks to WWX (which is beyond annoying) and very rarely makes friends with WWX and often when he does WWX is overly tearfully grateful and it's affected my view of the character somewhat. I've become less fond of LXC but I still sympathize with him for Meng Yao. It's what he warned to his little brother about WWX but instead it was actually happening to him.

On a different note- how strong a cultivator is Lan Xichen? I feel like he should be right up there among the best but his cultivation skills are mentioned. What is he good at? Is he super good at anything?

I sometimes think LXC is, in a way, a foil for LWJ. He's this gentle, placid guy, willing to cruise along with the world, serene as the surface of the lake until someone throws a stone. LWJ, on the other hand, feels powerful like a storm sometimes. Even his silence has an edge to it, he comes across as fierce in ways LXC just isn't.

His fierceness makes him proactive instead of reactive, that's especially true when he's an adult. He's always ready to shoot and he doesn't hesitate. That's why he goes where chaos exists. LWJ isn't the kind to sit idly by when people face problems, even if the people don't concern him.

With LXC, things are different. Yes, he earns his title during the war and is known for helping hundreds of cultivators. We get the picture that he's this incredibly kind, gentle, and honorable guy. And he is.

But honestly, there's a limit to how much a kind guy will care about other people not connected to him. He knows LWJ cares for WWX in some capacity but LXC himself isn't attached to WWX in anyway. In his view, this is the guy who teased his brother relentlessly as a teenager and then showed up rebeling against everything they had been taught.

WWX's no innocent peasant or helpless cultivator that needs defending. In his eyes, WWX is powerful, dangerous, and a proven soldier. He knows WWX is smart and cunning. LXC knows he's capable of being very ruthless.

All of the heroism and kindness that LWJ has seen first hand, LXC has seen none of it. I'm also uncertain about how much he understands LWJ's feelings for WWX. He was forced to go mediate between the two a few times during the war because they were fighting so much.

So why would he go out of his way to get the true facts regarding WWX and the Wens? Especially if JC, WWX's own sect leader is set against him? He has no reason to distrust JC, who has always seemed like a steady guy, trying to reign in WWX's chaos.

From his perspective, whatever happens to WWX and the Wens is just a part of the post-war politicking.

Now, if LWJ had asked him to check, LXC would've definitely gone to the BM settlement. But he didn't afaik. LXC simply went on handling his own sect business and life.

All of that makes perfect sense for his character and his station in life. He becomes a little more invested post-ressurection when LWJ and WWX request his aid. He gets involved because both of our heroes ask this time. And due to his connection with JGY. If he wasn't tied so closely to the situation, with JGY and LWJ at risk, he wouldn't have paid much attention to the situation.

Imo, he's just a kind guy who is inclined to help but also needs to have some sort of personal stake to truly involve himself. Everytime he's shown stepping forward (outside of war) in any meaningful way, it happens when someone close to him is at risk like JGY, NMJ, LWJ, or even NHS.

There's a big difference between how JC and LXC failed their brothers.

JC activily turned the entire Cultivation world against WWX. He refused to defend him or offer help when needed.

LXC only saw his brother's somewhat 'friend' was turning bad and his brother maybe felt a little put out about it. Can't even consider that a failure, tbh.

When he knew how seriously invested LWJ was, having seen his brother suffer for love, he became seriously invested in WWX's wellbeing too. He showed that by sheltering WWX even if it meant going against his sworn brother in spirit.

But that doesn't mean WWX owes LXC anything.

So to conclude, I think he's a kind but casual character. MXTX basically wanted him to be a humbo, so there's that.

As for his power, I believe he's a skilled cultivator, particularly good with musical cultivation. He's so good that JGY thought he was nothing in comparison. He's also a good swordman and very good at archery.

Is he has powerful as LWJ - I somehow don't believe he is simply because LWJ seems to go on many more nighthunts. I assume that hightens his cultivation somewhat. But LXC is very competent from what the text suggests.

#reader asks #my personal opinion #i could be wrong

[pharahsgf]

sometimes i think about how jc's actions in response to his supposed victimhood are on par with xy's, especially if you take into account how many innocent people he killed over the years for reminding him of wwx. coupled with his handling of jl, the fact that the people of yunmeng and his own sect have genuine reason to fear him, his abuse of power, and the extreme brutality he exhibits towards wwx once he's back, and the fact that despite all of that he never faces consequences for his actions due to his position, it's kind of insane that he's not only so beloved by the fandom but actively defended to the extent he is. at least xy stans understand that xy is a deranged serial killer. at the very least xy doesn't discriminate who he murders based on class, or have access to the privledge that jc does. xy has connections to jgy, who is powerful, but jc is an independent sect leader. he gets to make decisions that affect his entire district, and people act like it's such a tragic burden that jc has all this responsibility, how terrible that he had to build his sect all by himself because wwx selfishly abandoned him. not mentioning the fact that jc has always been ambitious, always wanted the position he has, constantly put wwx down and was ultimately very successful without wwx's help (also not mentioning the fact that wwx DID help him and at great cost. lol). look at su she, who actually built his own sect from the ground up despite obstacles jc never faced; the fact that his society looked down on his efforts and that he wasn't building on top of a foundation that was already there. su she started out with even less assistance than jc had. and still none of that is an excuse for su she's abuse of power and killing of innocent people later in the story (things jc also does! even more directly and with even more freedom!). in fact, su she is even more criticized for it than jc, despite jc having been born into his position and historically showing a proclivity towards classist behavior. i'm not saying su she or xy are sympathetic characters, i'm just pointing out that jc has a lot of similarities in common with them and often even less excuse for his behavior. and pointing out the fact that despite this, literally every other character is criticized more heavily than jc himself in this fandom. characters are even blamed for influencing the terrible actions of jc himself in an effort to justify his character. it's asinine. how many bodies has jc piled up over the years in his spite? how often were his intentions ever truly good and, when they were, not also conveniently self-serving? not denying that jc has moments where he is caring and protective towards his loved ones or that he isn't always innately cruel but all those times are just like the bare minimum of what a good person would do. loving your family, protecting them (sometimes), making sacrifices for the good of others, those are things that jc not only does extremely and increasingly infrequently as the story progresses, but no where near to the extent of being equal to practically any other character aside from the worst villains in the story. and also they're all things that should, to an extent, just be expected of someone. like he does them so rarely and so poorly that he's disproportionately praised when he does the bare minimum such as looking kind of sad when reminded that he sort of killed his brother. on the exact opposite end of the spectrum, wwx gives so much of himself so often that fans seem almost blind to it at this point. it's so backwards.

literally like jiang cheng made a career out of getting innocent people killed and yet the same people who recognise the issues w xue yang’s worldview are out there saying jiang cheng deserves to collect blood debts because... having disproportionate wealth and influence is really difficult, i guess? people will forgive and justify any degree of moral cowardice from jiang cheng as long as it enables some kind of vague benefit for the sect, of which he is the primary profiteer, because he’s apparently innately entitled to chase that power at the expense of others.

like. su she. fuck that guy but i don’t see anyone defending him on the basis that he had no choice but to do what was most politically beneficial for him, or justifying his behaviour by pointing out building a sect was hard and people are rude to him. once again i cannot overstate how much i don’t care about su she but the idea of him ‘deserving’ success less than the idiot sect leader who treats human lives as currency is... annoying! especially when taking into account that characters like su she are rightfully punished in-universe and by the narrative for the crimes they commit, while jiang cheng can go around annoucing his intent to murder and torture people without anyone batting an eye.

jiang cheng... over the course of the series has done way more harm than good, yet is almost exclusively rewarded for it. like you said he fulfilled his ambitions of becoming a strong sect leader, he has power and money and wei wuxian’s cultivation and the fame and prestige of killing the yiling laozu. he lost a lot but he gained most of it back, he is very well off, which isn’t something i can say about many less malicious characters.

in the end i just think it’s pretty insane that jiang cheng can get away with doing horrible things, inbetween ongoing threats and announcements that he’ll do more horrible things, while ensuring that the people who saved and protected and healed him suffer immensely, but he’ll turn around and say he’s actually the victim because those people’s heroism made his consistent self-interest look bad! really crazy

#replies #anonymous #long post #LIKE... THIS IS REALLY LONG. UM

[annalacerda17]

I was looking for time travel fics on AO3 and was surprised to see how many fics have some character, usually WWX, time travel and "save" JGY from turning evil by being kind to him and telling him his father sucks and will never accept him, so give up and go be happy elsewhere. This take is so prevalent in fannon and it makes no damn sense.

Like, if kindness could prevent JGY from turning evil, cannon wouldn't have happened, because LXC exists and was always kind to JGY.

If some random person tells JGY his father will never accept him, he still wouldn't give up, because in cannon other sex workers at his mother's brothel said the same all his life, and cannonicaly, JGS had JGY thrown down the stairs of Jinlintai and JGY still didn't give up. It's not some stranger that'll convince him.

JGY is not as pitiful as he makes himself out to be. It's true that he was looked down on for a period of his life, but I think ppl miss the fact that he managed to become chief cultivator, he can't do that if is universally looked down on. He wasn't friendless or isolated, either: cannon shows clearly that he was bffs with XY, Su She worshipped the ground JGY walked on, LXC was always supportive of him, NHS trusted him before NMJ's death and even NMJ himself gave JGY many chances to change.

JGY wasn't forced into evil by society. He suffered injustices, it's true, but he was hardly the only character to have a sad past, nor was he the one with the saddest past. That would be WWX, and we know HE didn't turn evil because of it so no one else gets to use their sad backstory as an excuse for turning evil.

I don't think JGY became evil so much as he always was someone willing to do anything and cross any line to get what he wants, that is to say, power and prestige. He was always a manipulator who he weaponized his sad past to gain other ppl's sympathy. He was using and manipulating ppl since the beginning, it's not a behavior he learns gradually throughout the story. That's one of the reasons why, when JGY stans say he was good with kids, it makes no sense. JGY didn't care about kids, he was willing to kill his own son, his nephew whom he raised for 13 years, another 9 yr old child, and the juniors. He can charm and manipulate most ppl, including kids, but that doesn't mean he should be allowed near children, if anything, it's the opposite.

So, there is no world where JGY would be one of the good guys, because in peacetime his goal to be acknowledged as a Jin and reach the top is impossible. JGY would never settle for an average life, and he'd never settle for second place. He wants to be the most powerful, no compromises. JGY uses the war to climb the social ladder, and subsequently manufactures a number of tragedies that help him further climb the social ladder. He knows he's killing innocents, he even says so when he kills the Tingshan He sect, but he doesn't care, he doesn't feel remorse.

If someone travelled back in time and tried to recruit JGY to save the future, JGY would just use them for his own advantage. If they told him what happened in the future, he'd likely try to get them killed in order to be the only one who had the advantage of knowing the future, and keep them from interfering with his plans to reach the top.

#jgy #Jin Guangyao #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #grandmaster of demonic cultivation