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silverwhittlingknife · 1 year

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How do you feel about Jack Drake?? What are your thoughts on him and Tim’s relationship?

Anon, I hope you were interested in a novel, because look, I am fascinated by Jack Drake. He’s key to a whole lot of what I find compelling about Tim as a character, and if I were in charge of DC, I’d bring him back to life. This would make Tim unhappy but would IMO make for good plotlines.

Jack and Tim’s relationship is Complicated (TM)...

Jack and Tim hug in Nightwing 20 / Jack impulsively yanks a TV out of the wall in Robin 45 / Tim grieves in Identity Crisis

“I could tell the truth. But I don’t.” - Robin 66

...and it involves a whole lot of Tim lying, and feeling guilty about lying, and thinking about telling the truth, and choosing again and again to keep lying.

And I think that’s great.

Below the cut:

Shorter version - key points about Jack

Really long version - my gentler take (vigilantism is choir and Jack loves sports) vs. my harsher take (Jack has some major flaws)

Final thoughts

Shorter version - key points about Jack:

He’s a bad parent. He’s self-centered, he consistently prioritizes his own comfort and interests over his son’s, and when upset, he does things like order Tim off to boarding school.

But he’s never a bad parent in an actionable way. He’s not like David Cain or Arthur Brown, who are abusive monsters. Jack’s not a monster! He just...kinda sucks.

He genuinely loves Tim. If Jack’s aware that Tim’s disappeared or is in trouble, he’s always worried and upset. He periodically resolves to be a better dad, and IMO he’s always sincere.

And Tim loves him, a lot. Tim’s protective of him and worries about him when he’s kidnapped or in danger, and when they’re reunited, Tim’s really relieved and usually hugs him (and Jack hugs back!).

...But they have very little in common, and that’s a problem. Jack doesn’t value the things that Tim values, or respect the people that Tim admires, or care about the things that Tim’s interested in. Tim lies to him a lot, but that’s partly because he correctly guesses Jack wouldn’t respond well if he knew the truth of what Tim’s up to.

The Batfamily is a surrogate family that Tim’s drawn to because of the ways his real family doesn’t meet his emotional needs…but also he feels guilty about that and disloyal. (And to the extent that his dad recognizes what’s going on, he's jealous and resentful!)

Very long version:

(LISTEN I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS)

Okay! So first: Jack’s a character who IMO is pretty up for interpretation. You can interpret him very charitably, and make excuses for the bad behavior, and fill in the blanks sympathetically when situations are ambiguous; or you can interpret him uncharitably, and emphasize the bad behavior. I don’t think either approach is invalid - it depends on what kind of story you’re interested in! I have enjoyed Bad Dad stories and also stories that redeem Jack.

My personal take on canon is that Jack and Tim’s relationship is in a gray area. Jack's definitely neglectful, and he does prioritize other things over Tim, but he’s never so bad that Tim can easily reject him, and he's never so bad that Bruce could justify taking Tim away. He's just...not great. Tim loves him, and feels loyal to him, but it’s a very mixed-up complicated love.

I have a gentler take and a harsher one which I switch between as the spirit moves me. xD

My Gentler Take (tl;dr: vigilantism is choir and Jack loves sports)

Here’s the core conflict: Jack and Tim are very different people with different values. Tim idolizes Bruce and Dick and vigilantism, and secretly gets involved, knowing his dad will hate it. He gets increasingly wrapped up in his secret world and lies to his dad...because if his dad finds out, he’ll make Tim quit.

This is a great setup for an ongoing comic. It’s practical, because it provides endless potential for plotlines, and it’s nicely thematic, because it maps closely onto relatable real-life situations with extracurricular activities:

Tim the drama nerd whose dad thinks he’s playing football and not in the school play;

Tim the closeted-queer kid secretly getting involved in his school’s politically-active Gay-Straight Alliance;

Tim the choir kid whose dad only values making money and wants him to go into the family business (and Tim keeps promising himself he'll give up choir soon, definitely soon, but maybe he'll stay in just a liiiittle longer, because they need him, you see, the last tenor left town, so...);

Tim the computer geek with the sports-obsessed dad (this one’s just canon);

etc. etc.

The extracurricular metaphor works pretty well for Tim’s relationship to vigilantism. Tim's involved in his "extracurricular" because he genuinely thinks it's important and fulfilling, and he values it and wants to be good at it. He idolizes Bruce and Dick because they're good at it. He's been collecting information about it since he was a little kid, and hiding it from his parents because he knows they wouldn't approve. And mayyyybe there's also an element of low-key rebellion against his dad, and maybe that's secretly part of the appeal. And yet also as Tim gets more and more invested, he starts to daydream: maybe I could tell my dad and he'd be proud of me and supportive. But he doesn't, because actually he knows his dad would be upset and angry and make him quit.

And - again, just like with lonely kids and extracurricular hobbies - one of the things that happens is that Tim starts getting his unfilled emotional needs met ... by people he knows through this secret hobby. And people like Bruce and Dick start turning into a surrogate family. Which Tim feels guilty about. And also as Tim gets more and more wrapped up in their world, he has to lie to his dad even more, which means the distance between Tim and his dad gets bigger and bigger and more and more unfixable.

I love this dilemma. It's simple, it's recognizable, it provides endless sources for conflict, and there's no obvious solution! Tim can't tell Jack: he'll make Tim quit! And Tim doesn't want to quit, because he loves choir / art / theater / whatever. Yeah, it’s difficult, and there are challenges, and sometimes he has doubts...but at the end of the day, he cares about it a lot. And everything he values is there, and all the people he admires and cares about are there, and all he wants in the world is to feel like he's one of them and belongs there. So he has to lie, even though he doesn't want to lie, and he feels guilty about it...

...but also he ends up lying more and more.

(Sidenote: I think it's important that Tim chooses to keep lying - Tim's narration often glosses this as "I have to lie to my dad," and that's certainly how it feels to Tim, but this... isn't quite true. He has to lie to his dad, because if he doesn't, his dad will get mad at him and try to stop him, not because he literally has no choice about it.)

Other Reasons Why I Like The "Secret Extracurricular" Interpretation

(tl;dr it complicates not just Tim's relationship with his dad, but also all his other relationships)

Tim's problems have some obvious parallels to Steph and Cass, who both become vigilantes while rejecting their evil supervillain dads. But Jack isn't evil. And that means the Tim-and-Jack relationship is ambiguous and complicated in ways that I like. Steph and Cass can just leave their Bad Dads in prison, and say good riddance, and feel very righteous and triumphant about it! Tim’s more complicated. Tim gets into vigilantism ostensibly out of duty and altruism, but secretly, he's also involved for straight-up selfish self-fulfillment reasons. He's lonely, and bored, and his life feels pointless, but he thinks that Bruce and Dick are cool and amazing and he wants to be a part of the things that they do. When his dad gets jealous of Tim’s relationship to Bruce, and feels like Tim’s looking for a surrogate family, he’s... not wrong.

And the ways in which Jack is not Actionably Bad complicate things from Bruce's POV. If Jack was a straight-up villain, it’d be an easy call to keep in touch when Jack finds out and makes Tim quit...but he’s not a villain, not really. So what do you do? Do you try to surreptitiously stay in touch with Tim even though you’re ignoring his dad’s express wishes and thus forcing Tim to sneak around? Do you respect his dad’s wishes and stay away from Tim even though you have a years-long relationship at this point?

Again: a bit similar to the extracurricular analogy. Say you’re the choir director and you’ve built this whole relationship with a kid in the choir, and you’re an important mentor to him and you care about him etc. etc. etc.... and then right before a big performance, his dad finds out he’s been secretly involved, and yanks him out. How would you react? Well, maybe kind of in some of the ways Bruce reacts. You replace him. You’re annoyed with him. You miss him. You want him to come back. You’re also worried about him. You’re upset with his dad. But also... what should you do, exactly?

Bruce and Alfred and Dick care about Tim as if he were part of their family, but he’s not part of their family, and there’s a lot of interesting tension there.

My Harsher Take

Jack never hits his son. But his temper is a big deal.

In his worst moments, he takes out his anger on Tim’s stuff - wrecking his room, or ripping his TV out of the wall and confiscating it. When he’s worried about Tim, he usually expresses that fear by yelling at him / punishing him / sending him away - threatening to send him to boarding school in Metropolis in Robin III, or threatening to send him to military school abroad in Robin 92, or actually forcing him to go to an all-boys' boarding school post-NML.

This is bad behavior! It is Not Good!

And you can easily connect the dots to a bunch of Tim’s terrible coping mechanisms, like the constant lying and or the fact that Tim’s go-to methods for dealing with interpersonal conflict are 1) repress it and pretend it never happened (most of his fights with Bruce), 2) withdraw from the relationship until he can pretend the conflict doesn’t exist (when his friends get mad at him in YJ, he quits the team for a while), or 3) literally run away from home.

Also, Jack is a Manly Man with firm opinions about how men behave vs. how women behave, and he thinks boys shouldn’t be scared and thinks Tim should date hot girls and pushes Tim to work out and wants him to play football and expresses period-typical sexism, etc. etc. etc. ... and though obviously this wasn’t what the writers had in mind at the time, all of that is certainly interesting to read backwards in the light of Tim as a queer character.

More Disorganized Thoughts on Jack Drake

Tim’s our hero, so we’re naturally more sympathetic to him, but it’s also true that relationships are a two-way street, and Tim doesn’t value any of the things his dad values, either. Jack at various points is shown to care about grades, business, money, boarding schools, archeology, football, a kind of macho bragging-about-dating-hot-women ethos, and a very public and performative kind of caring. Tim tends to respond with discomfort or disinterest or even disgust. When Jack gets on TV to try to rally the government to save his son from No Man’s Land, Tim isn’t touched—he’s mortified. When Jack makes some bad investments and loses money, Jack’s deeply upset and his self-image is majorly impacted, and far from being sympathetic, Tim’s annoyed and kind of contemptuous of the idea that this is a problem. Jack thinks fishing in the early morning and going to tennis matches is a fun father-son activity; Tim finds it exhausting and tedious. And so on.

This means that Tim often longs to be closer to his dad in theory, but this longing is more tied to fantasy than to reality. He rarely seems to enjoy spending time with His-Dad-The-Actual-Person. So for example, when Tim’s deadly ill with the Clench, he has an extremely poignant fever dream about telling his dad the truth and getting hugged…even as he insists in real-life to Alfred and Dick that he does not want them to tell his dad what’s going on.

The same is true of Jack, who IMO genuinely wants to be closer to his son and is continually declaring that he’s going to turn over a new leaf and get closer to his son…and just as continually backs out of activities or loses his temper when faced with spending time with his actual son.

Tim and his dad sadly get along best—by far—in Absence Makes the Heart Grow Fonder situations. When Jack gets kidnapped or is in danger, Tim worries for him (and Tim grieves him deeply when he dies). When Tim disappears or runs away, Jack’s genuinely worried about him. So e.g. they have a really moving emotional reunion and hug when the earthquake hits Gotham, and Tim panics about his dad’s safety and comes running home (and meanwhile Jack’s been panicked about Tim’s safety!). It’s the day-to-day, regular life stuff where they don’t connect.

Jack's written quite differently by different writers. Mostly, Tim's parents are at their least likable in his early appearances and early miniseries (this is where you get, for example, Jack and Janet being nasty at each other while a pained employee looks on, and Tim disappointed to once again get news of where his parents are via postcard - "I guess that sums them up! Never know where they’re going to be–or when–or even how long!” - and Tim alone on school break, and Bruce and Alfred thinking there's something weird going on with Tim's parents, etc. etc.). Jack's more sympathetic but still often unlikable in most of Tim's Robin solo, and he's almost invisible (but positively treated if he does show up) in Tim's team books.

For obvious reasons, Jack's remembered way more sympathetically after his death. Tim's completely devastated by Jack's murder, which he arrives moments too late to prevent, and he basically never gets over it. We see him grieving Jack again and again in Robin, and also in Teen Titans, and also in Resurrection, and again in the Halloween Special, and again in Batman: Blackest Night, and all the way up to the end of Red Robin. Tim also grieves for an extended time over Janet - he hallucinates a happy reunion with her when he's feverish in Contagion, and hallucinates her in the final issue of Robin, and the reveal-your-buried-emotions song in Robin 102 brings up his grief for her too (meanwhile, other characters dance or laugh or otherwise get giddy). Tim’s grief over his parents’ deaths is intense and long-lasting.

I'm not going to clip comic panels because this is long enough, but if you're curious, here's a nice and fairly lengthy compilation of comic panels with Tim and Jack.

If you're interested in a Jack-centric story with a softer-but-still-recognizably-canon take on Jack, I really like the way Jack’s narration is written in the one-shots Heart Humble (set shortly before Jack dies) and Never a Hero (Ra's resurrects him during Brucequest, and Jack's archeology skills turn out to be unexpectedly useful).

#tim drake #jack drake #ask tag #i wrote this ages ago and now i can't remember what i was going to add to it so oh well draft amnesty? sorry for the long wait anon!! <333 #anyway i kept this carefully on topic and virtuously did not derail into talking about the other blorbo but tags are for disorganization SO #for me this kinda half-in half-out place where tim is with the batfamily is SUCH an interesting part of his relationship with dick #and i never stop turning it over in my head #he's kiiiinda replaced dick in that he's robin - but in a very real way he *hasn't* - he's NOT bruce's new son the way jason was #and early!tim makes a BIG POINT of how bruce is not his dad #and i think this relative distance from bruce is a huge factor in why dick is able to build a close relationship with tim at all #(because dick's still pretty estranged from bruce!)#and there's such interesting tension there when dick starts jokingly calling tim ''little brother'' or when villains call them brothers #because they're NOT. increasingly they would both LIKE to be brothers! but dick has zero official standing in tim's life #if tim got hit by a car in his civilian identity bruce and dick wouldn't even be able to visit him without his dad's permission #which jack would be pretty unlikely to give! jack doesn't like or trust bruce!#or like. this is morbid. but if tim died. dick wouldn't even be invited to the funeral you know?#and there's such interesting tension there for me in the contrast between this vigilante relationship that's very very close #but in their civilian lives no one would assume they're anything in particular to each other #anyway the 1st half of tim's robin solo has this thread of tension between tim's family life vs. his vigilante life (plus his mom's death)#and then the second half + red robin has the thread of struggling with grief in a world that's not fair + feeling lost/alone #and these two threads are a big part of my interest in tim as a character! jack's the backdrop that makes a lot of stories possible

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yashley · 1 year

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"She's so charmin', y'know! She's just so--"

#critical role #imogearne #imogen x fearne #ygifs #IMOGEN GETTIN LOST FOR A SECOND IN FEARNE'S GAYZE AND SHE STARTS STAMMERING Iiiiiiii #fearne making imogen blush but imogen JUMPS on the FIRST distraction from that is SOOO good 2 me it's like ooook #she literally literally immediately is like ANYWAY and it's SO good y'all just had a moment and you literally are like UH SO WHATD YOU SAY #I just want to chew on it I just want to study it I just want to take out a mortgage with it and really have holiday card memories with it #you have a 6ft faun you keep reminding everyone is hot leaning towards you teasing you to choose between her and you what - don't lose it?ok #being able to fluster even stressed out imogen like that power trip alone I hope she starts to chase that feeling #the FOREVER GONDOLA RIDES is what I'll title the fic of fearne constantly flirting with imogen just to try to fluster her #and imogen's just like I don't think I should be alone with fearne and everyone's like all right makes sense #and she’s beetred cos she wanted them to ASK WHY so she could try to have a dialogue about Thinking? Fearne is Flirting #but she's like that with everyone!!!!! and they all are like yeah that's true and imogen just is like . of course ! ! ! and they squint #like you knew this why do you seem disappointed all of a sudden and imogen vax-es out of the room #it's NOT that she LIKES her LIKE THAT it's NOTHIN I'm watching it cos it's like this is happening while also not happening pretty gay

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teeth-draws · 6 months

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“What do you mean he’s scary!! Look at him!”

— taking artistic liberties to scrunkle the face of @shepherds-of-haven’s Blade Bronwyn - a man with 0.6% body fat lol

#shepherds of haven #if games #blade bronwyn #this is mc privelage at work #hc mcs but especially the ladies are like no he’s fine!! look he’s a lamb!! but if someone else tried this they’d get their wrists broken #being an artist (like being a writer) makes your proclivities rly obvious because in this instance you can tell that I love #babying men who could kickflip me into the sun #picking fights with famed assassins like… wow blade ur so confident for your height! and leave #blade likes girls with good hearts and Halle is not quite that but she IS an efficient worker so she always comes back with the win…#and a bunch of rescued orphans and mages and stuff it’s… not a reflection of her personality but rather her work ethic which even then #is reluctant and put-upon #she didn’t want to be a captain let alone commander she was meant to be using this gang of do-gooders to fulfil her fate and then bounce #but they’re all so wholesome and now she loves them despite her better judgement #and he’s so cute!! with his poetry and plants and the googly-eyed clam he keeps on his desk and talks to about his feelings!!#what’s a girl to do?#there’s only so strong you can be in the face of a man who tells you straight-faced he’d mcfucking die for you #talking the talk and walking the walk even to the most wary of wilderness orphans #as always blade you are a nightmare to draw I lost sleep over your skin tone #my foe of four years aka blade’s left elbow is cunningly hidden #their child would be a serious force of nature and also really tall #fanart #shoh #can you imagine the name? between austere ket names and whack mage names…#these are my parents: blade and halwendi. my name is steele mechanicus and I DONT want to talk about it #just realised that if his brother saw this shit he’d get blade stoned for being a public hussy gosh sorry better make an honest man of him #new blade hairstyle is a shaggy wolfcut bc I think it’s cute on him lmao #this is a really autistic couple honestly #not quite sure where to put his hands #like when you flip a shark upside down

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skunkes · 7 months

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doing figure drawing studies because i know thats what i should be doing right now but also ive been in a very insane deranged state for the past 2 months that leaves me like this whenever i look at a man for too long

#talkys #im gonna say some more stuff here which is i dont think its ever going to happen for me which is like #it should be fine right...i dont think im even meant to be in a relationship it sounds exhausting and like another #constant neverending performance...#but its like that one post...''im happy by myself but also where's the love of my life''#ykwim...i wish i could at least make an informed decision #but that would also be tragic as it'd require me to go thru more heartbreak so i could know for certain #is it better to do it or not do it at all...#anyway ive also been having a hard time putting this into words #but. i like my alone time! i can live with myself. + nothing will ever beat the peace and romance in my brain #but. it also feels so weird to think this way. in the sense of like. yeah. you're only thinking this way because you Have To.#because that's your reality. other ppl don't have to think this way because they are capable of finding love.#other people dont have to reaffirm themself of this in the wake of not ever being desired and valued....#does that make sense...? it feels really weird.#like of course u have to like being alone and spending time with yourself. you have no other choice lol. you lost.#and also... idk. idealized romances in my brain better than anything maybe i would like to be held just once by another living human being.#🌺

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lollytea · 1 year

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She was driven mad by the truth (Clover and Emmeline love Hunter to pieces)

#that scene in ftf makes me fucking insane!!!!#their concerned little faces as they trail after him #like. hes not going anywhere. hes just pacing. they dont need to do this #but theyre silly brainless little creatures. they dont really know how to comfort him.#all they know is that hes sad :( and they are filled with love for him :( so they want to be close to him so hes less alone :(#do you ever think about how #clover and emmeline spent who knows how many years lost and forgotten #without a witch #i feel like a bond with a witch is the core of any palisman. they feel a void if they dont have one #so their little brains can certainly put together how devastated hunter must be to lose his ''other half''#its literally the worst thing their little brains could think of. its heartbreaking for them to see #but again. thryre not the brightest. theyre just like ''he's all alone'' :(#so their solution is to attach themselves to him so hes not alone #thats all they can think to do. theyre trying #also i feel like a part of their love for hunter is influenced by willow and gus' love for hunter #considering witches and palismen have a mental link im sure they fully understand just how deep the adoration for this boy runs #and thats all the reason they need to love him too #(i cant sleep. so you get very emotional babbling about palismen)

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moongothic · 4 months

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I LOVE your crocodad theory I'm an obsessed believer but did u ever get romantic vibes from crocodile & robin business relationship? Many people get lover vibes from them & I never understood why. They seem VERY strictly business/stab each other in the back relationship. (Plus crocodile is TERRIFYING).

I think Croco/Robin as a ship exists kind of like... out of circumstance? Kind of?

Quick disclaimer, I only got into OP in like 2008~ish at the age of 13, I can not comment what it as like being in the fandom before that because I wasn't there (and when OP began in 1997 I was like two whole years old). So whatever I say here doesn't come from like, a fandom veteran who knows the entire history of the OP fandom or anything. I'm just attempting to rub my braincells together here

Like in the year of our lord 2023 we have many wonderful Crocodile ships to classify as OTPs and NOTPs etc, but if we go back to like 2006 or so, long before the Summit War Saga was even a thing, try to think about what characters you would have shipped Crocodile with? Because for a long time, the only canon material Crocodile had appeared in was just the Alabasta Saga (+one brief cover story), and we don't really see Crocodile interact with that many characters during the story. Like. Really the only character Crocodile has multiple, extended interactions with aside from Luffy and Vivi is Robin. All the other characters he interacts with maybe once or twice for very brief scenes, so based on canon material alone, there isn't much for fuel for shipping purposes.

It really wasn't until Marineford when we finally started getting other characters to ship with Crocodile, mainly the Ever Loyal Daz who seems to be willing to follow Crocodile anywhere (romantic as fuck) and Doflamingo after he and Croc tried to kill each other twice at Marineford (people seem to love a tsundere Croc) And now with Cross Guild we also have Mihawk (and Buggy) as far as shipping options go. And of course there's MORE than just these ships, there's the more crack-leaning ships (like Dragodile and whatever you'd call the Cobra-ship) and some others (Jinbei, Whitebeard, Ivankov, Galdino, Luffy even) etc etc

The only difference is that Croco/Robin got to kind of be like, "the default Crocodile ship" for like 8 years without major competition. And because the ship has "history", even when new ships pop up the one that has been around the longest will still stick out. Not to mention, although we have options now, even those have very little canon material to actually work with when compared to Croco/Robin. Like Dofuwani exists because the two had like three whole pages worth of interactions, but compare that to the screentime Croc had with Robin? It's not even a competition

Not to mention, Croco/Robin is just. Like it's kind of the mandatory het ship. Like there aren't many straight options with canon material to work with, and there's gonna be people who really want to have a het ship with Crocodile if you know what I mean. But also, let's be real. There's a lot of straight women who're horny for Crocodile. Valid as fuck. And Croco/Robin could have like, a self-insert-y quality to it, like some people might be able to see themselves in Robin? Also valid. And that can apply to some straight men too, like I'm sure there's cishet men who look at Crocodile with that "god I wish that were me" energy, who love seeing Crocodile ship fanart with Robin, as they can project onto Crocodile etc. This is also valid. Point is that the ship appeals to cishets by simply being a het ship, but also it might make for an easy ship for a lot of straight people to project onto for one reason or another.

But to be fair, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I think Croco/Robin has the potential to be a really interesting ship. Like they ARE the Baroque Works Boss Pair, literal partners in crime, the most powerful members of the secret criminal organization who run the whole operation, they worked together by themselves for four whole years, Crocodile protecting Robin by allowing her to hide under his wings. They were together, ready to take over an entire country and obtain a weapon of mass destruction And then Robin betrays him. And Crocodile admits he never trusted her to begin with.

Like on paper alone, this is great material for a juicy romance.

Especially now when we understand why Robin was on the run and why she feared being betrayed, and how looking back at Crocodile's reaction when Robin "reads" the Poneglyph for him, he genuinely seems a little sad about her betraying him (mystery trauma etc). This is a genuinely interesting character dynamic, like even without any romantic context I would love to see Crocodile and Robin meet again in the storyline and like, see what Crocodile thinks of Robin having joined the Strawhats vs what Robin thinks about Cross Guild, how the two might interact etc. They are interesting to me

Like personally, I agree, I don't think the two were actually ever romantically involved with each other (frankly I don't think Crocodile trusts anyone anymore enough to let them get close him like that, dude's been voluntarily celibate for like two decades lmao), their relationship was surely just business-only. And while the ship doesn't personally interest me (just kinda "meh" for me), I do understand why the ship appeals to others and why it's popular to this day

But yeah, I do think a lot of the reasons Croco/Robin is as popular as it is due to circumstance. It's been around the longest, it still arguably has the most canon material to work with, it appeals to lots of people. God knows shippers don't actually need the characters to like each other, otherwise people wouldn't be shipping Croc with Buggy as we speak

#Moon posting #OP Meta #Sir Crocodile #Nico Robin #Long post #I feel like I should tag this with the shipname because this IS about the ship but while it's not explicitly negative don't wanna bother pp #I don't know how this turned into a psuedo fandom history lesson (based on vibes alone and no actual facts) I am so sorry man #My brain just started running and I had to release the worms #Sometimes a ship that's just big scary powerful murder man and small murder woman makes brain go brrr #The appeal is not lost on me #(Personally I've just become an absolute sucker for CrocHawk. I am so invested in these two. Oda I need to see them more together)

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luvsavos · 1 month

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hello rain world tumblr i would like you to meet my friend Big Ol Eyes (i named them that for their big ol fuckin Lookers and tiny ass . . pupils)

they followed me back to my shelter and proceeded to adopt me as their emotional support animal for the next cycle

#mar.txt #rain world #rw scavenger #rain world scavenger #scavenger rain world #scavenger rw #idk what all tags to use #video #they got very nervous whenever they lost track of me and thought they were alone</3 i spent the entire cycle following them to make sure #they were okay #NORMALLY this is my Absolute Fucking Obliterate Vultures With The Scavs save but i am more than happy to take a day off Vulture Hunting to #be a scav's emotional support slugcat i <3 scavs #poor thang was so freaked out from the lizards that they almost tried to go through the [REDACTED FOR MOOT SPOILERS] room instead #i had to gently coax them over to the tunnels then follow them up (and even then they still panicked at first when i made a noise and they #didn't know it was me so i had to show them it was me and that they're still safe to calm them down) for them to feel safe enough to</3 #i love when scavs are so anxious at a baseline that they just kind of perpetually vibrate #me when i get the anxiety shivers

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koqabear · 7 months

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dreamer is everything i wanted and more bye guys i’m deactivating!

#ok so #initial thoughts on the album #growing pains is that delicious rock txt we’ve been waiting for #and we FINALLY got it #like a proper song that indulges in the genre ugh it’s so good mf #chasing that feeling? i rlly like it!! it’s so cool and the instrumental is alone giving me too many ideas #the mv is another discussion.#dreamer.#that’s all ur getting #deep down…? i don’t rlly like the genre much but i appreciate the vocals they sound good (obviously)#happily ever after!!!!!! it’s so good and silly!! fuck!!!!#the vocals are just. exquisite and yummy #SKIPPING STONES. UGH DAY6’S LONG LOST COUSIN WELCOME HOME #ITS SO FUCKING GOOD IVE BEEN ANTICIPATING IT FR #I ALMOST STARTED CRYING EVERYBODY CELEBRATE #BLUE 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 SPRING 😭😭😭😭#there was no need to make blue spring even more gut wrenching than it already was.#i could write a whole essay on it and NO i’m not fucking joking!!!!#ok if u guys wanna ask me more abt my thoughts on the album and indulge w me i highly encourage it #this is just the tip of the iceberg #rambles

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maxgicalgirl · 8 months

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Archive 81 tv show made Melody Pendras straight we cannot trust podcasts in the hands of mainstream media !!!!!!!

#archive 81 #I have mixed feelings about it and as soon as they introduced Gal Pal Annabelle to replace Actual Girlfriend Alexa it should have been a #red flag #conceptually I really liked what they did to flesh out the first season #but they took it in a completely different direction by the end and at that point it’s not even the same thing anymore 🙄#like you can’t even pick up anything from the original’s season 2 because they reconstructed the narrative so much #idk man its not like they’re going to make any more of it anyways but I still felt the need to come on here and bitch #honestly main stream adaptations of podcasts scare me like I revel in exposure for things I like but ultimately so much gets lost in #translation #like archive 81 podcast is weird and nonsensical at times and Tape Recorder Man’s adventures in the Upside Down just don’t translate to a #general audience ? so they gotta bring in reasons for it to make sense like satanism and witches and demons #when that was sooooooo not the point of the original #like seeing how much they had to adjust to appeal to an outside audience makes me almost glad the wtnv tv show didn’t get green lit #can you imagine ???? how the fuck would they get five headed dragon Hiram McDaniel on my actual television ????#standing next to a Cecil Palmer with a canon appearance no less #like adaptations are cool and they CAN work sometimes but if you’re going to have to break and bend the world in order to make it to the #point where it’s a new thing entirely #ESPECIALLY since we live in a world where audio drama is not respected as a creative medium #at that point I’m just like leave it alone it’s fine on it’s own #anyways archive 81 is an interesting experiment into what live action podcast adaptations COULD look like but you can pry lesbian Melody #Pendras from my cold dead hands and that makes the adaptation automatically inferior imo #I guess she could be bi but when you remove Canon Girlfriend and instead make her kiss a man ? not likely #I am just talking to hear myself talk now goodbye #max rambles in the tags

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greenlaut · 9 months

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it’s my birthday

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shepscapades · 1 year

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So, your Jimmy Emotions. About what percentage would you say is the agony of his cursed existence as an omen of death stealing him away from those he cares most about while dooming them to an inevitable painful end, versus the turmoil of constant rejection and betrayal that has destroyed his dignity and aspirations despite his continued need to connect with others that has left him both unable to trust yet suffering abandonment issues, versus heehoo heart eyes at Tango

okay first of all AND FOR WHAT.

second of all. i hate you i hate you i hate you iahthehurygORUOGOHUKRGDFGSDHOUTARIJOIGAOIERHOerjgIODFIGOJSDJijorjoiidfjlksjihjoifgbkkjfdggfdljkgdfslkbkmjlithjoeitjslfjhbksftgkjh

third of all. and for why. why me why you whyd u have to put it into words like that. words that hurt me. i hurt

fourth of all. yes "heehoo heart eyes at tango" is involved BUT DID U HAVE TO GO THERE

this is actively making me WORSE HELP!!!!!!

#ask #hybbat #LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!#WHAT IF #WHAT IF HE JUST WANTS TO FEEL LIKE ANYTHING HE DOES MEANS ANYTHING TO ANYBODY #AND WHAT IF #WHAT IF TANGO MAKES HIM FEEL APPRECIATED AND LIKE HE MEANS ANYTING #IN THE WORDS OF THE WATCHERS THAT HAUNT THE M-1 RANCHERS:#“WE SAW ONE WHO SEARCHES TO GIVE THEIR LIFE MEANING. AND ONE WHOSE LIFE LOST IT'S WORTH TO DEMEANING.”#“WE SAW ONE WHO GIVES WORTH AND ONE WHO GIVES MEANING / AND TIED THE STRING 'TWEEN THEM FOR THE POTENTIAL TEEMING”#IM NORMAL ABOUT THEM!!!!!!!#DONT LOOK AT ME #WHAT IF. WHAT IF THEYRE PERFECT FOR EACH OTHER AND #AND WHAT IF TANGO IS SO NICE TO HIM AND THEY GET TO BE GOOFY TOGETHER AND WHAT IF JIMMY COULD HOLD TANGO LIKE HE MEANS THE WORLD AND MORE #WHAT THEN?????#i'm leaving #i'm LEAVING

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skrunksthatwunk · 10 months

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ok so. kiwami 2. rooftop scene. the ending. it's a bit of a clusterfuck but i wanna talk about one detail, a problem they bring to your attention by Fucking. Talking About Her.

haruka is watching all of this unfold.

[this post is like 4.5k words long + pretty critical + has spoilers for kiwami and kiwami 2, and really minor/vague ones for a couple others. they're not that bad though, trust me (and i added a warning in the one place it is major)]

ALSO CONTENT WARNING i'm gonna talk about kiryu's passive suicidality a good amount in this one, so stay away from this if you think that might affect you negatively/you'd be better off skipping it. i'll also make a tl;dr (which i will highlight in red) at the very end if you really wanna know what my point is that will exclude those elements <3. i am also going to use a lot of choice-based language in regards to kiryu's contemplation of suicide because i think it's the lens through which the games treat the topic, but i personally don't find it a productive or realistic way to look at suicide or suicidal ideation at all. someone dying by suicide absolutely does not mean they don't care about their loved ones enough to fight on or whatever. i love you, and proceed with caution on this one.

(also i'm using the kiwamis as my point of reference because i uh. don't have a ps2? those are the games that i played, and though the differences are likely slight, i wanna be clear about that. also,, ignore the watermark on these screenshots,, i didn't notice them and i'm not retaking them. we're all gonna have to settle for youtube cutscene comps for now xoxo)

first, we have to talk about the ending of the first game.

[note: i am Really Really Confident kiryu has a conversation earlier in the game about his going to jail in nishiki's stead being him running away and choosing not to resist his two options (go to jail or let nishiki go to jail) and define his own path, fighting his way against fate to make it happen. part of why i'm so confident it exists is because it made such an impression on me at the time. it's pretty important to my interpretation of things but i also can't find it for the life of me, so uh. sorry ✌️ i really tried. this post's takes/analysis will be dependent on this scene existing, so keep that in mind. if anyone knows where to find the scene/screenshots of it, lmk and i'll add a follow-up with it]

kiwami stuff

so as she's dying, yumi tells haruka this:

that she may be dying (painfully, and right as she's getting everything she wanted), but she doesn't regret it, because at least she did something rather than running away from it all. that you shouldn't run away, ever.

shortly thereafter, when the police find kiryu and haruka, this exchange happens between him and date. here's the play by play:

date tells kiryu he can get him out of trouble with this, and that if he doesn't, he'll get life in prison; kiryu declines his help:

kiryu is so devastated (understandably) by the back to back losses of the three people closest to him that he resigns himself to life in prison, and the death-in-effect that would be. he would prefer to waste away rather than struggle through a life without them. prison was monotonous and isolating, but coming back after a decade was overwhelming, and coming back to everything being so warped and twisted, and then losing the corrupted scraps he had anyway, well. he wants to go back to sleep. he doesn't want to be in a world where everything's the same except he's on his own. better to return to safety, to die slowly in a hell he knows well than weather a new one where he has control and agency, and thus one where he has the ability to fail and to lose anything at any time. he explains to date that that loss is why he can accept his death:

date shakes him and asks him if there's really nothing left for him, no reason to keep living at all:

then echoes yumi's advice to haruka:

which makes an impression on kiryu:

date gives him a reason to live in the form of haruka, saying she'll be on her own again if he goes to jail. he hijacks kiryu's tragic protector complex to keep him alive, because she needs him, and because she's someone precious to him:

after the dust has cleared,

kiryu and date also have this exchange, where date tells him to stay away from the cops (and presumably arrest and a return to prison, the aforementioned fate akin to death), and kiryu cites haruka as his reason to stay away, one he holds to with no uncertainty (showing again that he's accepted date's logic, that his reason to keep living even when it's incredibly difficult is to care for the more vulnerable haruka). given the weight of the consequences, to me, it feels like date's telling him not to be alone with his thoughts or something. it's almost frightening:

so, what's our takeaway from kiwami?

kiryu lost everything and hit rock bottom, but he chose to fight, and to live life on his own terms, even when it got difficult. that's the narrative life lesson he had to learn to avoid repeating the events of 1995. he made that choice for haruka's sake. it's seen as growth.

and without him, haruka would've just returned to the orphanage (assuming she could make it back to sunflower at all) with no one who knew or understood what she had been through, no one to mourn with her, and no one to give her the attention, care, and protection she needs. kiryu knows what it's like to be an orphan with a limited parental figure who only checks in every so often (kazama, "aunt" yumi), and what someone will do for attention/affection from that person (via both himself and nishiki swearing up, climbing the ranks, etc. arguably haruka coming to kamurocho by herself to find "mizuki" is similar), and what it's like to lose them anyway (again, kazama, yumi). their situations parallel each others' somewhat, and that binds them further. and after losing everyone (which he blames himself for to some extent, as one can probably assume from this and 2, and something key to his arc in later games), he chooses to protect her. and this time, he won't fail. at least partially because failing would hurt him, too. he'd have nothing left again.

okay. now we get to kiwami 2.

if you forgot, the context is basically:

everybody's fighting on the roof of a building which i'm sure will not be a running theme or anything as the series goes on

there's a bomb that's about to go off and they don't know how to/can't defuse it

ryuji shot the twist villain to death, but took fatal hits to do so

sayama's like hey!! let's get out of here!!! and kiryu and ryuji are like nooo we have to settle this oughh it's punchin time and they stick her on an elevator and send her down so she doesn't have to watch

ryuji loses. sayama returns, they have a cute sibling heart to heart, and ryuji dies in her arms. sad

kiryu is in rough shape as well, and there's like 2 minutes left on the bomb's timer

here's the scene itself:

sayama tells kiryu they have to run, and kiryu says he can't. the gist is "let's run!" "you go without me" "i'm not leaving you!" "i'm in no condition to run" "i'll carry you then!!" sayama: *sees how fucked up kiryu is, realizes he's Going To Die Anyway* "ok, then i'm staying with you!" and then further bickering about that, before they give up and make out (as one does i guess)

date (he's here now) yells this at them from a helicopter:

before someone else in the helicopter tells date this:

we get this shot of haruka calling out to kiryu as the helicopter swerves away:

and kiryu and sayama have this exchange about haruka where they say they let her down, but that she'll understand:

then they hug and the bomb ticks to zero right when the credits hit. in post credits it's revealed that the twist villain defused the bomb when they weren't looking, betraying his co-villain for reasons i truthfully do not remember and am unwilling to look up. it's not about that right now.

so, how does this scene interact with the ending of the previous game?

the short answer is "badly <3" but here's the long answer:

it's about choices.

the thing about fiction is that anything you want to have happen, as a writer, can happen. it may not be effective, internally consistent, or logical, but you can write it regardless. audiences suspend their disbelief for the sake of engaging fully with your fiction, but everyone has a threshold past which they will stop being engaged in a story and either become uninvested or annoyed. writers usually have lines they're unwilling to cross as well. but in almost every story, there's at least a couple of places where they stretch reality a little to make the narrative they want happen. this is not a bad thing at all. that's how stories get told.

now, i'm gonna be real with you. i don't care about how feasible plots are like 95% of the time. it's not something i think about much, nor is it something i prioritize. i am a very character-centric media consumer, so if world building and/or plot are a bit stale or contrived, that doesn't really bother me much so long as i'm invested in the characters involved. some people can't stand plot holes or the ways musicals burst into song or whatever, and that's fine for them. but it's not something i tend to find that all that important.

this is all to say that i have a sorta affection for rgg's flavor of bullshit pulling. and it is a powerful flavor, maybe even an acquired taste, but i can and do rock with it so long as it doesn't damage the characters too much. this is why i'm not making a lengthy post howling into the void about joji kazama or the second joon-gi han or how many secret relatives there are. those things are silly and endearing and a clumsy yet heartfelt part of a series i care about very deeply. i'll joke about it, but i don't consider it much of a flaw. it's more like personality. flaws are texture, and they help a piece's identity. point is i am very, very willing and able to suspend my disbelief for these games in exchange for a good time, particularly via good characters.

(if you want another example of where i draw the line from within rgg, the answer's the YAKUZA 4 SPOILERS INCOMING rubber bullets twist, because i think 1) it's actively horrifically stupid (especially retconning a scene we SAW HAPPEN. WE SAW BLOOD ON EACH IMPACT, AND RUBBER BULLETS DON'T OFTEN BREAK SKIN THAT DEEPLY (THEIR DAMAGE IS MORE PERCUSSIVE THAN PENETRATIVE). THESE EVENTS HAPPEN IN THE SAME GAME YOU DON'T HAVE TO RETCON IT JUST REWRITE IT. OR DON'T SHOW THE HIT AT ALL SO THERE'S MORE PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. DON'T DO THIS JUST TO HYPE UP YOUR SHITTY VILLAIN NO ONE CARES ABOUT. and 2) (a bit more importantly) i think it actively removes saejima's primary internal conflict for that game, that being his intense guilt over the 18 murders he thinks he committed, one i was invested and interested in. but this isn't a rubber bullets post.)

characters in this series walk off a lot of life threatening injuries. they survive miraculously, they escape in the nick of time, and they pull through in the end. kiryu still somehow hasn't killed anyone. almost every game in his saga ends with an "is kiryu gonna make it out this time?!?" shortly followed by a "yeah lol. lmao" postcredits reveal. kiryu fucking punches a marble statue into dust in the first game. having a story that asks you to suspend your disbelief so much and so often means that when a decision is made, it's not the writers saying, "well, this would have to happen so we are obligated/forced to write it happening" so much as "we wanted this to happen for some reason(s)," because you already know that they're not guided solely by logic. again, this is true of all writers, it's just amplified in stories like these because they've already given you so many hard mode suspension of disbelief moments (they've broken you in like leather, yeah? or like how obvious internet scams allow for self selection by being so obvious that only the most vulnerable people would fall for them. they curate an audience willing to play along with their bullshit flavor so they can tell a story that's more likely to satisfy that audience. in a good way, in a fun way! mass appeal is overrated). there is not much limit to what this series is willing to try and sell you.

so when ryuji takes lethal damage taking out the big bad, that's a choice. when he doesn't die immediately, that's a choice. when ryuji and kiryu send sayama away in the soon-to-be-forgotten elevator so they can settle this like men or whatever despite the literal actual bomb about to go off, that's a choice. when sayama comes back, that's a choice. when ryuji does die, that's a choice. when kiryu determines that he can't escape in time, that's a choice. when sayama is unwilling to leave him, that's a choice. when she says she'll carry him out and there's an elevator right fucking there and then she's like never mind i guess i won't anymore we're dying together right now kiryu like they're not gonna even try?? wouldn't distancing themselves from the blast give themselves a better shot, something that's super possible given the 2 minutes they have with that elevator??? sayama you met him like a week and a half ago why are you ready to die with him that's not a plot hole i just think that's kinda strange whatever anyway, that's a choice. when kiryu stops arguing with her so they can kiss (next to her brother's corpse), that's a choice. when date shows up, that's a choice. when the helicopter can't save them because the bomb was going to go off too soon, that's a choice. when they put haruka in that helicopter and take her away, let her only impact be reminding kiryu and sayama that they can't help her, that's a choice. when they spend their last moments talking as if they're already dead, then simply waiting, that's a choice.

they're all choices that the writers made for the characters, and we are asked to believe them for the sake of achieving the writers' vision, as with any story. the only problem is that the writers' vision here fucking blows.

i'm not saying it would be realistic for kiryu and sayama (and even ryuji) to make it out alive, but it wouldn't be out of character for the series in the slightest. kiryu is suddenly unable to power through here, and that's a choice. so, what is their vision?

put simply, i think they wanted a romantic last stand for kiryu and sayama, a tragic scene of doomed, devoted lovers. and i think they wanted an edge-of-your-seat fake out death. they wanted spectacle.

here's how some specific choices they made undermine all that shit we talked about earlier from the first game.

once again, kiryu is called by date to live, to pick himself up and keep going, no matter how impossible the odds are. he's even reminded by haruka's presence, his one anchor in keeping himself going. the growth he had in the parallel scene in the previous game is challenged, and he fails.

it's not enough this time. and that's a choice.

it's also one i can't think of a good reason for, and that's the real kicker.

characters can have developmental backslide just like people do, and if they're given good reason for it, it can be just as, if not far more compelling that purely linear growth (i am a chimera ant arc enjoyer, and that's all i'll say. sorry if you haven't seen hunter x hunter. uhh. i am also a zuko avatar enjoyer if that helps). but i can't think of anything that happened in that game that would cause this from a character perspective. if anything, kiryu should be less likely to do this intentionally. he's spent around a year raising haruka, and a year has passed since he lost his loved ones. at the very least, the pain should be more dull, though it is established through an early nightmare sequence that his ass is (justifiably) not over it yet. given that their deaths were the initial motivation for his willingness to rot forever, theoretically, he should be more motivated to stay alive than before now that he's got more investment and stability in his life outside of them, particularly when it comes to haruka, his reason for surviving. and if the ongoing nature of the trauma was the motivator for this, then they should've had it affect him more past that nightmare scene (it really serves more as a recap of the last game than anything else) so it didn't come out of nowhere. so the reminder of the lesson that saved his life and then guided it for at least a year afterwards, one that the whole resolution of the previous game relied on heavily falls flat for... some reason.

i think this is a good time to mention that, generally speaking, you don't write arbitrary choices into characters. sure, people in real life are often sporadic, but when analyzing fictional characters, every choice is filed into a portfolio of characterization that can and should be analyzed. going for pure realism can obfuscate their development, motivations, themes, etc. their choices and reactions may be unorthodox, but they must be internally consistent. this is very related to how i view plot contrivance as well. characters drive the plot, not the other way around. stories are about the ways characters affect their worlds/lives and vice versa, and they're the human face to the themes and ideas the writers are trying to explore and express. maybe my stance on this seems hypocritical. i don't know if it is. but to me, plot issues are usually a matter of engagement and investment, while character issues are a matter of substance.

i hope this doesn't feel patronizing explaining all of this, but i want you guys to know where i'm coming from in my analysis. starting at my base philosophy on writing is the easiest way to do that, i feel. defining the terms of the debate, and all that. anyway

and i mean, look. they survive because "it was defused the whole time we just didn't see it happen", so it's not like narrative tension or realism or whatever was THAT big of a priority overall. if it was gonna be a cop-out anyway, they should'nt have ruined kiryu's development too, yeah?. and sayama fucks off to america after this game anyway, so it's not like the doomed lovers thing had much payoff or meaning after this one (though you could argue that's more an issue with yakuza 3 than yk2, which has some merit to it). which means that they chose to sacrifice kiryu's prior development and internal logic for the sake of cheap tension for their finale that was both kinda illogical in and of itself (the elevator!! the elevator!!!) and a romantic climax that neither required nor really benefitted from this staging. (like. you coulda had them make out and then get saved by date, or kiss on the elevator in a "it's moving, but will we make it in time??" way or whatever. look i'm not saying those are great options either but they're SOMETHING okay. it would remove/reduce the amount of time wasted on characters sitting around with their thumbs up their asses for no reason in this finale).

instead the message of this finale is that, actually, sometimes it is impossible to change your circumstances and fight for your own way out of an awful situation. and what should you do about this unfortunate truth? uh. die! i guess. it's the exact opposite of the encouraging, optimistic message of the last game. zetsubou chou pride my ass.

note: i feel i should mention that when suicidality is brought up within the series (particularly in substories), it is always something someone has to overcome themselves through wanting it badly enough. they simply need the inspiration and the motivation to keep going. it's arguably treated as a moral obligation. frankly, the series is broadly very meritocratic (<- bad) when it comes to this topic (and others, but that's a Whole Other Thing. see akiyama's weird loan shark tests as well). sheer will and resolve is enough to conquer any problem, be it physical or mental/emotional, and it's irresponsible to act/feel otherwise. this is the logic the games operating under, and kiryu is often the mouthpiece for this bootstrap-pulling "tough love" sentiment. so when kiryu "chooses" to die, yet faces no emotional fallout from date, haruka, or anyone else, it feels very out of place. it's not just an odd choice; it's specifically, once again, an odd choice to make in context of the game/series/character it appears in.

kiryu's just like eh, haruka'll watch her only family die right as she gets some sense of tentative stability and lets her guard down after a devastating month the year prior (and a relatively dismal upbringing before that) that we trauma bonded over. sure, she likely came to view me as the one who would stay no matter what, who was too strong to be taken out, who she could always rely on, and so i know that dying would hurt her immensely, but she's smart enough to know it'd happen eventually. her eventual recovery means it's okay for me to do this (somehow, in a way it wasn't in the first game). it's an excuse within the narrative's logic, and one it is uncritical of simply because it's kiryu. he gets a pass.

and i think with the previously mentioned passive suicidality and general series-long mental health issues kiryu displays (i mean. yakuza 5's literally his depression arc), this could be retroactively seen as an interesting choice, like a piece in that particular narrative. i don't even dislike that viewing, especially in terms of fan approach. but (assuming this went down the same in yakuza 2), they likely didn't have that in mind. all they had then was the first game and the movie. and they took the first game's Entire Message and contradicted it for nothing but a scene they wanted to have happen because it'd be suspenseful and/or emotional (without actually doing the work to earn it). and they're not fans trying to analyze his character, they're the ones making choices for him. and they chose to massacre my boy. and if the subject of kiryu's mental health was a priority of theirs, why didn't they explore that? haruka and date's feelings on him not resisting and their words not being enough (whether that blame is justified by the narrative or not (it shouldn't be btw)), the uncomfortable drifting that resigning yourself to death and living afterwards anyway often brings, literally any conversation about it besides the minimal shit we get post credits of date being like "did you know about the bomb not having a fuse?" which like. bad answer either way (which is why they weren't straightforward about it, the cowards). you can't just be like "oh uh. idk he just gave up this time. yeah he was gonna die on purpose for some reason. good thing the bomb was fake lol" and then pack up and go home!! that's stupid!! any merit the idea of kiryu dying by suicide in this scene and in this way could have had from a character-based perspective loses its weight because 1. it didn't happen (for kinda stupid reasons), which makes it fall flat and 2. no one is really affected by the fact that it almost did, including him. they sacrificed his ass and replaced it with nothing, even when there could have been interesting outcomes to it.

so the narrative effectively chose to kill him by making the situation impossible, and this impossibility is ultimately arbitrary, given the series' usual approach to miraculous, illogical escapes. that, or the choice to stay was up to kiryu and sayama, one that 1. doesn't make sense and is actively regressive in context of kiryu's arc in the only other game in the series (as well as his whole saga in retrospect) and 2. one that contradicts how the series sees/treats resignation to death/death by suicide in all other contexts without being addressed, challenged, or condemned in ways it would in all other contexts. because they don't want you to think about it like that. they want you to think he (and the narrative) had no choice, that it made sense to do that. but it didn't. it doesn't.

and look, honestly? if i was bleeding out and had like 2 minutes to live, there's a non zero chance i'd say fuck it and kiss a girl too. i get it. but i am (and this is crucial) not a fucking yakuza character. and i'm certainly not kiryu kazuma.

tl;dr (basically just rephrasing the second to last main paragraph)

there are not sufficient character reasons for kiryu and sayama not trying to escape. additionally, because the narrative regularly facilitates even less likely escapes, it's not so constrained to logic and reality that it couldn't pull this one off. the choice to let their situation be impossible this one time was a cheap and arbitrary way of forcing a scene they thought would be cool and dramatic, and in doing so they chose to cannibalize a key emotional note of the previous finale (namely kiryu's mission to dedicate his life to protecting haruka) for hollow last minute stakes-upping in this one. it is then completely disregarded anyway. god damn.

#got so into this post that i used tumblr on my laptop for the first time to surpass mobile's image limit #i also added transcriptions in the alt text (which i should do more often)#actually thinking about it in the movie kiryu teaches haruka that lesson about stumbling on.. and she's the one to ask to follow him... hm.#just interesting given that the movie came out before 2. i don't think it makes much of a difference to the post it's just neat to me #one of my favorite parts of writing this was skimming through a bunch of yk1/yk2 cutscenes and noticing how often kiryu pats haruka's head #it happens a lot more than i remembered and it's very sweet to me. get bonked little one <3 #another good thing was realizing you can edit tags when you're not on mobile.... fucking life changing. i have lost hours to mobile tag #editing and i'm not even kidding about that #speaking of editing this one took like 6 hours.. my brother used “yakuza autism” (verb) for me earlier and it's so true. source: this post #i did have a short break to get food bc i hadn't eaten all day but that's mostly because i woke up at 3pm. anyway #also if you like kiwami 2's ending you're not even remotely alone. i looked at the comment sections of the scene comps and ppl love it #and more power to you!! i like it when people enjoy things. and tbh i DO have feelings that i'm supposed to about that ending #i just also have feelings you're not supposed to. like. anger. i guess.#rgg #ryu ga gotoku #skrunk meta #aww yeah it's a new tag babeyy #yakuza kiwami 2 #kiwami 2 #yakuza #like a dragon #yk2 #kiryu kazuma #sawamura haruka #sayama kaoru #maybe my thoughts'll change after replaying the games...? it's been like a year and a half since i beat yk2 so i am a bit fuzzy on it #yakuza kiwami spoilers #yakuza kiwami 2 spoilers

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