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wolf-912 · 4 years

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Thank you for taking the time to respond, despite my very tardy reblog-I appreciate you doing that. On to my replies:

>Her horrified reaction to the abortion procedure:

Seeing something is not the same as having even intimate knowledge of how it works. For instance, understanding why sunsets happen-learning that the Earth is round, and revolves around the sun, and understanding when the Earth spins and the sun dips down below the horizon, learning about UV rays of light that hit the atmosphere at different angles, resulting in stunning colors-does not compare to seeing a breathtaking sunset in real life. Understanding how war works, or the history and details of a specific war, does not compare to being in the middle of a battlefield. One’s responses to learning about either of these things is completely different from one’s responses to the real-life event, when one experiences it in real-time, with all of their available senses. Therefore, even though Abby Johnson had clear, detailed knowledge of the abortion procedure, nothing was the same as actually being present, and participating in one. Another important part of this event was the movement of the fetus-Abby saw it as trying to avoid the catheter’s suction. She had always believed, up until this point, that the fetus was not a baby-that it was a non-human, non-feeling piece of tissue, like a polyp. Seeing it behave as a living human, trying to avoid the intrusive object into its space, just as any human person would do if they were suddenly, forcefully, prodded by a foreign object, was not what she was expecting.

>Record of the 13 week abortion:

The only information that states there is no record of the 13 week abortion has been provided by Planned Parenthood, post-Abby Johnson’s switch to pro-life beliefs. Texas’s Department of State Health Services has abortion procedure data that was submitted to them from that Planned Parenthood clinic throughout its existence, but has refused to disclose whether or not there was a 13 week abortion on the date Abby Johnson describes (https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/fact-fiction-pro-life-celebrity-abby-johnson-unplanned/).

>Dr. Anthony Levatino:

When you say his depiction in the film was absurd, what exactly do you mean by that? Things he said, the way he acted, etc.? Dr. Levatino graduated from Albany Medical College in 1976, went on to become a Board-certified OB/GYN, served as a professor and Student and Residency program director at Albany Medical Center, and performed over 1,200 first- and second-trimester abortions. I fail to see why people should not take things that he says seriously, even if they do not agree with him. The video I linked to is actually his testimony at a House Judiciary Committee Hearing about Planned Parenthood’s medical procedures in 2015.

>Fetal pain:

The list I linked to may have been compiled by the Lozier Institute, but the sources themselves are numerous and diverse, coming from places that range from much more religious in nature, to completely secular. The provided screenshot, on the other hand, has absolutely no citations attached. I would be happy to look into any sources you would provide for that post.

>Abortions being dangerous:

“Any medical procedure is dangerous, however abortion is not nearly as dangerous as you like to portray.” I am glad we can agree that medical procedures, regardless of their nature, can be dangerous. However, regarding the second part of this sentence-are you using “you” to refer to just myself, or to the entire pro-life movement? If it is the former, then the only time I portrayed any sense of abortion’s risks to the mother was when I referenced the fact that the post-abortion conditions described in the film, and other dangerous aspects of abortion, have been described by women who have had abortions themselves, as well as by clinic workers or doctors. Regarding the research article from the National Institute of Health, you did not link to it either time, you simply posted a screenshot of it. I have no issue with the NIH, and have used articles from their system for many papers and projects I have had to complete. However, in order to both evaluate an article, and understand the specific characteristics of those statistics, it would be best if I could view the article myself. As no link was provided, and no title or author name included in the screenshot, I am unable to look the article up myself-that is why I asked for a link.

>Holocaust comparison:

It is unfortunate that you do not wish to discuss this more. If you change your mind, I am more than willing to continue the conversation regarding the way this was included in the film, as well as the other parts of the comparison (civil rights and slavery).

>Dr. Tiller:

This film also stands for truth, compassion, honesty, and integrity, and so does the rest of the pro-life movement. One of the pro-life movements main efforts is to educate people; on the details of abortion procedures, the other options available to them, and the humanity of the unborn baby. We want everyone to know the truth of abortion and the abortion industry. You say you are upset because Dr. Tiller was “dragged” into this film, because it goes against what he believed. However, doesn’t it make sense, that, in a film that illustrates a specific person’s life, most, if not all, of the defining/most intense part of that person’s life be included? Abby Johnson knew Dr. Tiller. She knew he had a family. She knew and believed that he should never have been murdered as he was, and became very distraught and saddened. She also became incredibly fearful, thinking that her, and other clinic employees like her, could become targets as well. She began to fear for her life, experiencing intense, unforgettable emotions. This is all shown in the movie. Again, I appreciate that the film did not paint everyone who said abortion is bad as good people. There are people who have done good things in the name of the pro choice movement, there are people who have done bad things in the name of the pro life movement, and vice versa. What happened to Dr. Tiller was wrong, and that is the message that the movie delivers.

I did not mean to sound condescending when I stated that people who have had an abortion are still loved. There is documented evidence regarding post-abortion mental and emotional ailments that women have experienced (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/). That is why websites like the one I linked to exist. In fact, I said that because I am not judging them. I have made the judgement, based upon evidence, that abortion kills a human baby, and that is bad. However, I have not made the judgement that anyone who gets an abortion is a bad person. That is why I included the link and the statement-if someone has had an abortion, I have no idea why or how they did it unless they tell me. There is no way for me to assume that. There could be a myriad of reasons for why they did what they did. That does not make what happened permissible, but, the most important thing, at this point, is that, they are still people who I believe deserve love, and that, if they wish it, they may reach out for help.

The Film “UnPlanned”: A Web Of Absolute Lies

Well y’all, I did it. I watched “Unplanned” and I have never been more proud to be pro-choice then I am right now.

Let me breakdown all of the inconsistencies and just straight up lies that were included in this film.

The 13 Week Abortion:

As the actress that portrays Abby narrates the film, it shows Abby being asked to assist in an abortion procedure. It is implied that in the 8 YEARS of her working at the clinic she has never witnessed an abortion procedure.

Even if she never witnessed one at the clinic, I find it hard to believe she didn’t do any research on abortion care and procedures in all that time.

She is asked to give the ultrasound while the doctor prepares and then performs the abortion. The man playing the doctor is actually real life ex-abortion care provider Anthony Levatino. Im sure you all have seen him in the LiveAction propaganda videos.

They show a patient getting a 13 week abortion. It depicts the nurses holding down and shouting at the patient who is crying out in pain. Implying that clinic employees are rude and violent towards their patients.

The ultrasound shows the fetus moving away from the medical instrument. Below is a quote from OBGYN and abortion provider Jen Villacencio reaffirming that this is not possible and a complete myth:

Flashback:

Funny enough, they show Abby pulling into a parenthood parking lot driving past a group of pro-life protestors who are shouting, “murderer”, “all because you couldn’t keep your legs closed” and “baby killer”, something the pro-life movement claims doesn’t happen..good one Abby.

Abby is told by the clinic director that on Saturday’s the only service they provide is abortion..which is obviously untrue…I mean seriously, what the fuck?

There is not one document, advertisement, interview, video etc that I could find that confirms this claims..it’s bullshit.

The Lie That Abortion Is Extremely Dangerous:

It cuts to Abby counseling a teenage girl who is about to go in for abortion. It quickly flashes to after the procedure where the girl is shown sitting in a gown in a room with a number of other patients like an asylum..it’s ridiculous.

They literally show her waking up sitting straight up in a chair after being drugged..I can’t.

The girl is shown to be bleeding heavily and it is revealed that the doctor accidentally perforated her uterus making it seem as if abortion is extremely dangerous and life threatening which is untrue.

According to a study done by the U.S National Library of Medicine and National Institute of Health death by childbirth is actually 14 times higher then that with abortion:

As you can see the mortality rate from child birth is 8.8 while for abortion it is only 0.6.

They then show Abby arguing with pro-life protestors who are filming outside the clinic. This is when they throw in one of their favorite arguments:

Abortion is the same as slavery, civil rights and the holocaust.

Not surprising.

Dr. Tiller:

They also found a way to drag Dr. Tiller, a abortion care provider who was shot by a pro-life extremist into this nonsense.

To say this pissed me off would be an understatement.

Using a man who was killed for doing nothing but spending his career providing reproductive care to women who needed it is just disgusting and disrespectful.

There was literally no point in putting anything about him in the film.

To say watching this film was excruciating would be an understatement. It was nothing but every bullshit pro-life argument and claim put into a video format.

Don’t watch it. Don’t subject yourself to the absolute fuckery that is this pathetic excuse of a film.

#pro life #pro choice #unplanned #abby johnson #abortion #anti-abortion #dr. anthony levatino #anthony levatino #planned parenthood #pp #truth

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wolf-912 · 4 years

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First off, please let me apologize for the extremely late reply to this. You had commented on my post regarding Unplanned, and directed me to this text post. I meant to post this reply sooner, but then RL got a little crazy, and I am just getting to it now.

The 13 Week Abortion

>Abby Johnson never witnessing an abortion procedure:

This is true, and not just implied in the movie. Throughout her years as first a volunteer escort, then a counselor, and then a clinic director, she gained knowledge of abortion procedures, and had even been in the POC (Products of Conception) Room, viewing the pieces of fetuses that had been aborted. However, up until that ultrasound-guided 13 week abortion, she had not, in person, witnessed/assisted with an abortion.

>Her not doing research on abortion care and procedures:

Again, she did have knowledge of many, if all, abortion procedures that were carried out both at her own clinic, and other clinics across the country. This is highlighted in a scene when she speaks with her husband, Doug, in their kitchen, and describes a late-term abortion.

>Dr. Anthony Levatino:

Dr. Anthony Levatino is indeed the man playing the doctor in the scene, although he was not the doctor who performed this procedure in real life. He has spoken out honestly and clearly regarding what happens in different abortion procedures, and one such testimony can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZXQBhTszpU (Warning: This video shows him explaining an abortion procedure in detail).

>The depicted behavior of the clinic employees:

The depiction of this scene is based upon Abby Johnson’s experience in this particular instance. She, and all others associated with the movie’s creation, have routinely stated that nothing is overexaggerated or dramaticized in the film. Their goal was to make a movie that truthfully illustrated a woman’s experience with her changing stance on abortion, and her experience working for Planned Parenthood. While I cannot, with my current knowledge, state whether the behaviors shown in this scene are more or less common than others, I can say that, clinic employees, at this specific clinic, were shown to be calm and gentle with the women in most other scenes. In fact, I found that their humanity, and their belief that they were helping women in need, were often highlighted.

>The science of fetal pain:

Science is showing, more and more, that this is NOT not possible, and not a complete myth. The following link goes to a fact sheet regarding scientific literature centered around the science of fetal pain. (I apologize, as the citations will not link you directly to the source, some googling is necessary, and not all of the material is available online, but nonetheless, there is quite a lot of information here): https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-sheet-science-of-fetal-pain/#_edn2

Flashback

>Rude and verbally aggressive pro-life protestors:

This happens. It should never happen, and is truly detrimental to both the health of the women hearing those things, as well as to the goals of the pro-life movement, which are to love and support both the baby and the mother. I do not know of any who claim that such behavior does not happen, and if they do, they are wrong. In fact, later in the movie, Abby Johnson brings up this behavior to Marilisa Carney, to whom she is speaking through the fence. She shows anger that those people are there, and remarks on how ridiculous it is that they think women will, for instance, run to someone dressed as the grim reaper for help. Marilisa states that she understands and agrees, and that she and others have asked, and continued to ask, such people to stop that behavior.

>Abortions only provided on Saturday at this particular clinic:

How is this obviously untrue? Do you have sources to suggest otherwise? There are some PP clinics that do not perform abortions, so why would it be strange for a specific clinic to only provide abortions on a particular day? Or a particular set of days, when on other days they are providing different healthcare services?

The Lie that Abortion is Extremely Dangerous

>The abortion procedure itself and the clinic conditions:

There have been several accounts from women who have had an abortion, as well as from former abortion clinic workers or doctors, that portray these or similar conditions, or other aspects of abortion that are dangerous. Some of these include people such as Dr. Levatino, or Dr. Kathi Aultman, who you can read about here: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/22/abortion-doctor-complications-pro-life-roe-wade-column/4530180002/

>The perforated uterus emergency:

Even if we assume that, on a whole, abortion is not “extremely dangerous and life-threatening” (to the mother), is it completely out of line to believe that, at one time, such an accident may have occurred during an abortion procedure? Do accidents and accidental deaths due to other surgical procedures not happen?

>Death rates due to child birth vs. due to abortion:

Can I ask which study this is from/a link to it? I would like to know a lot more about the numbers from that screen shot. This is an incredibly difficult issue, as aborting the fetus, killing the child, is still killing it. From what I have studied in the past, the instances in which an abortion will save the mother’s life are extremely rare.

>The discussion on abortion being the same as slavery, civil rights, and the Holocaust:

They bring up the notion that “Abortion is the same as slavery, civil rights, and the holocaust”, only after Abby Johnson, still on the pro-choice side of the argument, brings up such a notion first, in regards to the pro-choice side, and women as a whole, being oppressed by those on the side of the pro-life movement. The reason Shawn Carney turns it around back on her, is that he uses it to illustrate something very crucial to all of those occurrences: The dehumanization of a set of peoples. Throughout slavery’s existence (which continues to this day), slaves have been marked as less than the other humans around them, whether that be due to their race, caste, religion, etc. During the civil rights movements, such as the fight for suffrage for women and non-white people, voters who were not white men were viewed as less than human, and therefore had no place voting. During the holocaust, Jews, the elderly, the disabled, and many more were considered less than human, and treated as such. Today, with abortion, fetuses are seen as less than human, because it hurts less to think that so many babies have been murdered and continue to be murdered, than to think that they were simply a temporary, scary, non-human problem, that had an easy solution, and no consequences.

Dr. Tiller

>His death’s inclusion in the film:

I must admit I am confused as to why, exactly, this caused you so much anger. The way in which his death was mentioned was not, in any way, shown to be a glorification of his horrible murder, nor did it provide any justification for such an act. In fact, the movie shows Abby and her husband, Doug, leaving a restaurant as soon as they see the news, and driving quickly to her parents’ house to get her daughter. They are shown to be shocked, upset, and horrified at the violence, and Doug says that he wants to get her somewhere safe as soon as possible, worried that she may be a potential next target of such atrocity. The movie, once again, pulls no punches in its depiction of truth: No one should be murdered, or verbally attacked, for working at Planned Parenthood or in the abortion industry. That belief is a part of being pro-life as well.

I hope I managed to touch on everything, but please let me know of any questions/clarifications desired.

I still stand by Unplanned as being a truthful depiction of Abby Johnson’s experience at Planned Parenthood, the nature of what abortion is, and how abortions are performed.

To anyone who may come across this who has had an abortion: You are still loved, and resources exist to help you.

https://supportafterabortion.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjw_Y_8BRBiEiwA5MCBJgFuTe5DKnnJEP96U6il_R_nRVpFs8XoGO4Ww_Iw80dzp_Sm-_l_vRoCtFYQAvD_BwE