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sepublic · 30 days

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Alright, let's talk about some details from the TOH pitch bible;

A lot of the stuff is what we've already seen and/or in line with the show. What's interesting is that King WAS a former King of Demons at one point, and we would've had an episode where he runs into his old gang and chooses Luz and Eda over them. It makes me wonder if he even had a connection to the Titan in earlier drafts, if he wasn't recognized as one back in the day because he just wasn't big enough, etc. Eda makes a deal to help remove the collar, which IS the source of King's woes, placed by a 'mysterious wizard', I wouldn't be surprised if it was Obron AKA Proto-Belos.

What gets me is that Tibbles originally started off as a friend to the protagonists, while Bump was an antagonist! Coupled with Tibbles being re-elected as mayor after Bump is deposed for corruption. I like the detail of Bump being a parasite controlling a body from the head, because it carried over into his final design with Frewin, and before we got confirmation Frewin was a separate entity, I loved the joke theory that the imp on Bump's head was the REAL Bump!!! Seems that was always the implied story of the design, I love it. Tibbles being the demon fan of human stuff would eventually become Gus instead, so this is technically Proto-Gus too…?

Interesting how Bump and Tibbles' alignments switch completely with one another, and it makes sense that with Lilith no longer the principal in the final draft, it goes to Bump, who ends up being really chill and a subversion in his own right! Interesting, but I do prefer the final Bump we got, and that's fine by me, because when the concepts aren't as interesting as the final product, it means we got the best possible version.

I've already discussed Obron and William in a separate post, and Pupa is someone we've been told about in a previous livestream. Lilith would've been both head of all covens (and not just the Emperor's Coven) AND principal at the same time, and she seems much more of a jerk to Eda in general; She has no qualms with cursing Eda because of a direct order from Obron.

Apparently the curse would've been an AGING spell, which settles my questions on how it would've been portrayed in earlier drafts! This goes along with Eda's older look. Likewise, there would've been a subplot of Eda considering Luz's sacrifice as a way to restore her youth, which likely goes hand in hand with Obron's orders to bring Luz to her, etc. The 'Bloom of Eternal Youth' quest, which Eda and Lilith go through together as their sisterly relationship is explored, feels like a carryover from this past idea.

I think I prefer the final draft; I like that the curse isn't just aging Eda, but also takes away her magic, makes her turn into a beast, etc. I like Lilith being a lot more complicated in her relationship with Eda, instead of just hating her and cursing her without hesitation. The redefining of the curse makes it less about age, and more a chronic illness metaphor, and I like how Eda in the final draft is upfront about having to learn to live with it, deal with it, on her own terms. She isn't trying to find a cure (although Lilith being promised one by Obron feels like a carryover of Eda's moral dilemma with Luz), and that adds another nice dimension to her conflict with Lilith, as well as Gwen. It's pretty frank in its own right about normalizing disability, and those who play an antagonistic role (however brief) are the real weirdoes for making such a fuss about it.

The Bat Queen would've had more of a recurring role based on the description, which saddens me; I always got the vibe she was planned for more, but between all of the other stuff the show had to juggle, plus the shortening, she ended up getting shafted despite being one of the earlier characters. Sashley, Pasha, and Bruno are also interesting, with Pasha in particular giving me freaking Philip Wittebane vibes with his grossness, beard, and anti-demon attitude; He even starts off as a potential friend to Luz because fellow human, only for his true bigotry to show. Makes me wonder if Philip ended up incorporating Pasha, we also have bodily transformation because of consuming magical stuff... P-names.

(Also, I like how in the drawing of typical Demon Realm denizens, I can see an eye demon who resembles a past drawing of Dana's!!!)

Eda was actually a late bloomer, which creates a parallel with Luz in one way, and their relationship is referred to as sisterly (in the final draft it’s explicitly maternal). So Eda wouldn't have been the talented youth, in fact things may have switched between her and Lilith; Lilith's disdain may have partially come from Eda not being as innately talented as her.

Luz and Amity's dynamic seems like it would've had Amity retain a lot of her more stand-offish, pragmatic personality even as a friend with Luz, and this would've come up more; So basically, she'd remain more like S1 Amity. That, or this part of their relationship would've lasted longer, and then we would've seen character development as Amity unlearns a lot of the issues her parents passed on. I also wonder if the Willow who cameos in the pilot was originally supposed to just be an extra separate from ‘Paulina’, but then they combined the two together.

The themes are exactly as I expected, glad to see they're still there, nothing changed! Luz becoming a witch and defying all odds to do so, putting in real work and passion. Celebrating individuality amidst conformity, plus Luz trying to impose her own fictional tropes onto the world, only to have to put that aside... Just like Wing it like Witches. It seems Amity would've had more involvement with Luz's journey to become a witch, though we still do have a carryover of that disconnect with her rant near the end of Covention.

I love the Demon Realm being situated BELOW the Human Realm, way to be subtle about being Hell you guys lol... Apparently portals to the human world are a lot rarer to find and use, which makes me wonder if the pilot's 'dimension port' doesn't have access to the human world; Meaning Amity is Luz's only way back, so her improved relationship with her is linked to getting back home. There's a gag about the Knee having service with the human world, but I can see how that didn't make the cut, for dramatic purposes; It seems like the premise for a S1 episode or at least a B-plot. Would Luz have struggled to communicate with Camila through this, or would her search for wi-fi be for mundane reasons?

Apparently Luz's magic would've required a lot more steps to complete, and I see why the show simplified things down to just glyphs. I wonder if there was always going to be the connection of glyphs as a gift from the Titan, or if the Titan and her story was going to be less intertwined in the overall narrative. There also don't seem to be nine main covens, just the many, many covens, some of which are pretty ridiculous, and Covention's sub-covens seem a callback to that.

Luz's first spell would've been levitation, and THEN she would've infiltrated Hexside, with Amity being a lot subtler about exposing Luz, though in the final draft she does figure that out as the way to go in I was a Teenage Abomination. Yeah, I prefer Light being her original spell, feels so much more symbolic and personal, etc. I wonder if the Titan is even as much of a character in early drafts, and if there's still the whole connection/relationship with the land and learning to respect it aspect. Some of these hypothetical episodes push the idea of Amity as a more episodic, typical popular kid antagonist, though in the final draft, the show goes through her character development and explores Amity's romantic relationship with Luz and its complications.

It seems the idea of the Mirror Ghost was split into Adegast and Vee, with Adegast being the one who offers the easier narrative for Luz to believe in about becoming a witch (only to be a fraud who uses uncanny puppets), and Vee being a doppelganger whom Luz communicates through with mirrors. Interesting how Yesterday's Lie was born from this. We saw the test animation from Spencer Wan for TOH, so I guess we know what Luz's puppet-doppelganger is called! And we can safely call her Proto-Vee. I wonder if she also would've been a sympathetic character, I always thought she reminded me of Lake from Infinity Train (and speculated her to be as such since Enchanting Grom Fright), and now the similarities are even MORE apparent!

Alas, The Good Witch Azura, or 'The Unassuming Princess' seems like it'd have been a lot less dear to Luz's heart, as the pilot also reflects; In the end, it turns out the author is just Eda's ex using her adventures as basis, and including private information. I remember when I once speculated that Raine, before we saw their face, would've been just like this as the author of Azura... Again, I think I prefer Azura as being a lot less mean-spirited in the final draft, and instead a celebration of who Luz is as a person, her relationship with fantasy and fiction, etc. We also would've had a Luz birthday party, the Quincenera we've been hoping for since S1...! In the final draft (and episode) we still get that Human-Demon Realm disconnect, though by that point, Luz is much more attuned and chill with the isles.

There’s definitely more of an episodic, sitcom feel to this pitch bible, especially when you compare Proto-Yesterday’s Lie to its final version. Makes sense, Dana is pitching this to Disney executives, though her statement on Understanding Willow feeling truly like her show makes me wonder if she always intended to push TOH in that more serious, emotional route we got.

#the owl house #the owl house pilot #king clawthorne #principal bump #hieronymous bump #luz noceda #the owl house tibbles #lilith clawthorne #eda clawthorne #edalyn clawthorne #amity blight #lumity #boiling isles #analysis #the good witch azura #meta #speculation

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let-us-cultivate-our-garden · 26 days

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Any thoughts on the TOH pitch bible and pilot episode that were leaked? Anything you thought it was better than in the final product, or that the final product improved on?

Here is the pilot episode along with a lot of other Disney shows for those that missed it.

And the pitch bible

There were quite a few things I liked about the pilot better: the biggest being that Luz is actually bullied for her interests instead of pulling dangerous stunts that just make her look bad. Also, there's actual bigotry against humans in the Boiling Isles! Luz has to wear a disguise when sneaking into witch school! Lilith is more of a threat in this pilot than she was in the show! Luz and Eda feel more natural in the pilot; Eda still proclaims herself as the most powerful witch in the isles but it's obviously her ego talking while it's taken more seriously in the show. It feels like it's having more fun with itself instead of having an air of self importance.

A few things the actual show did better: Luz entering the Demon Realm. In the pilot, she just stumbles into it after trying to return Amity's passport (who is still a witch just attending a human high school for some reason). Luz trying to get her book back from Owlbert and being led directly to Eda works better for her character and the themes of the show. Also, in the pilot, Eda could just easily conjure a door to the human realm, which lowers the stakes a bit.

As for the pitch bible, it certainly is ambitious with how its world is set up: beta Belos was called Obron and was a councilor to the real ruler of the world, Emperor Pupa, who is currently in larval form and only its councilor's can understand what it's saying. Naturally, Obron is the real power behind the throne and plans on invading the human realm by possessing the Titan's body and he apparently needs a human soul to do that...

Yeah, I can see why this was simplified in the final version.

I do like some of the designs in the pitch bible better. For example, here's Willow, a.k.a. Paulina:

Here's Tibbles:

And lastly, even though everyone says this is beta Hunter, look me in the eyes and tell me that's not Baby Philip "Kill All Witches" Wittebane:

Come on, red outfit, blue eyes, hatred of witches, really hundreds of years old, the FREAKIN' DAGGER/SWORD.

That's a proto-Philip who was split into 3 characters, he's not simply beta Hunter.

Overall, both the pitch bible and the pilot are a mixed bag; the pitch bible has some overly ambitious ideas that (thankfully) became more grounded, but it also has more interesting character designs. The pilot has a lot going on in a mere 20 minutes but it's more fun to watch imo simply because it's not taking itself too seriously.

Despite all of these what-ifs, a show is only as good as how well it carries out its ideas. Toh has a lot of creativity and compelling concepts but its biggest struggle was always in its execution.

(P.S. any accusations that Disney made Dana add Hexside are now null and void because both the pitch bible and pilot had Lilith as the Headmaster of Amity's magic school)

#the owl house #luz noceda #eda clawthorne #emperor belos #philip wittebane #toh hunter #toh beta #toh william #toh critical #toh criticism #asks

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diet-comet-soda · 1 year

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Lore answers & info from the Post Hoot, which I’m organizing by the unanswered questions I had from my previous post. This may not be entirely comprehensive of all the info from the post hoot, could definitely be missing some things!

What’s the history of Hooty? Was he always a part of the the Owl House or did he move in at some point? Why was a mini-Hooty in the Titan’s eye socket??

Confirmed that an offhand comment by the YouTuber thethirdbill about Hooty in Papa Titan’s eye socket was right. Couldn’t find the clip of exactly what he said, but I think it’s something about Hooty being a tapeworm? Hooty hole?

What’s the history of the Portal Door & Key?

Mentioned that the eye in the Portal Door is the Titan’s missing eye.

What exactly is the Tower Glyph (the one that King carved on his collar) and where does its magic come from?

The origins of King’s Tower is related to a character we all know, who now has amnesia about it. Likely the Bat Queen considering she’s the only character who explicitly has amnesia (but I personally like to think it’s Tibbles).

What are the nitty gritty details of the Wittebanes & Evelyn's story?

Caleb and Evelyn had a super loving relationship... until it was ruined lol. Not much more info on that.

Is Evelyn a Clawthorne?

YES!!! The Clawthornes are all descended from Caleb and Evelyn! Hunter and Eda are not aware of this fact.

What are the details of Flapjack’s origin? Whose Palisman was he exactly?

As was depicted in the trailer ride in Thanks to Them, Flapjack was gifted to Caleb by Evelyn (as she found him more reasonable and less violent than everyone else in Gravesfield), and was essentially his first true introduction to magic.

To Belos, Flapjack is a representation of the corrupting force that magic, the Demon Realm, and Evelyn all had on his brother, hence the line “Goodbye, Evelyn” when he killed Flapjack. That line was never meant to be literal (as I have been saying this whole time lol).

What's the history of the shack in the woods? Does it have any direct relationship to the Owl House? Who used to live there? The Wittebanes? Evelyn?

Dana’s thoughts on the matter seemed to not be 100% final (so if it was actually incorporated into the show, we could have got something different), but she said maybe it was the Wittebanes’ house a long long time ago. And when Eda first entered the Human Realm through the Portal Door, she came out at the shack, which was even more dilapidated than we see it now. She then spent years fixing up the shack alongside fixing up The Owl House, one being her home in the Human Realm and the other her home in The Demon Realm.

Other things off the top of my head said in the post hoot that I didn’t mention in my last post:

“Snake Palisman is in the logo” theory confirmed real

Hunter is bi, Willow is pan!!!

Ratador is Alador’s Palisman ?!?!?!?!?

There’s another ending for the show that Dana has wanted to do since the beginning, but it didn’t work within the time constraints. Too much would need to be set up. If we ever do get a sequel show, she would use that finale to cap it off.

Collector ages too slowly to have a timeskip design

#toh #the owl house #post hoot

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slowthypiglordblr · 1 year

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Toh Cast Represented as Studio Ghibli Characters-Spirited Away

Luz Noceda as Chihiro Ogino

Amity Blight as Haku

The Collector as No-Face

Odalia Blight as Yubaba

King Clawthorne as Boh

Emira Blight as Lin

Eda Clawthorne as Zeniba

Alador Blight as Chichiyaku

Professor Humunculis as the Foreman

Tibbles as Aogaeru

Belos is Slug!! (they go squish)

The Heads are Bat Queen’s Babies

Dell Clawthorne as Kamaji

Hooty as Hopping Lantern

The Titan as The River Spirit

#the owl house #the owl house luz #the owl house amity #lumity #the owl house king #the owl house eda #spirited away #the owl house lumity #the owl house belos #luz noceda #amity blight #studio ghibli #haku spirited away #toh lumity #chihiro spirited away #haku and chihiro #luz and amity #the owl house hooty #the owl house the collector

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drachenfalter · 1 year

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Choose your pint-sized Antagonist!

Who cares about Belos. He's just some "upstart on the carcass-kingdom", after all. No, today we have to identify the real threat

Tibblet-Tibblie Grimmhammer III, also known as Tibbles, of the infamous Grimmhammer family! He still has a feud with the Hextrio, and we can only speculate what he has been up to since the Day of Unity.

Kikimora, the Emperor's Right Hand. Hailing from Palm Stings, this little demon is used to fight above her weight and has so far survived everything the Isles could throw at her. She was last seen trying to build her own Empire and fighting teenagers.

Bill. Yes, that's his full name. Unassuming in size and appearance, this Titan Trapper has Belos beat when it comes to life-experience. While he was last seen on the other side of the planet, he might know a thing or two about Titans and Collectors and should not be underestimated.

So, who is secretly the biggest threat? Who will rule the Isles? Who will the GOAT.

#the owl house #polls #tibbles #toh bill #kikimora #toh kikimora #toh spoilers #LET THEM FIGHT #(or worse they might combine forces)#don't take this too serious #this is just for fun #giving this a week #just because the fandom has already died down a bit

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emsprovisions · 1 year

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Matt Tholomule HC’s

• Steve is twelve years older than him, and he was pretty much always the one taking care of Matt growing up.

• Steve and Matt share a dad. Steve’s mom is out of the picture, and Matt’s mom is nice, she treats Steve like her own, but they’re both busy witches and Matty was their little surprise. So they rarely had the time for him, which is why Steve stepped up to raise his little brother. Once Matt was old enough to stay at home on his own, and Steve left for the emperor’s coven, he had to learn how to get by on his own, which is how he ended up as one of Bria’s “friends” at Glandus.

• After enduring so much bullying, troublemaking, and detention at Glandus (a lot of his acting out had stemmed from absent parents growing up and now feeling like his brother had abandoned him), his parents finally decided to transfer him to Hexside, hoping that Matt’s dad’s alma mater would do his son some good.

• Matt isn’t poor, but his family doesn’t have a lot of money either. Being the youngest, he got a lot of secondhand items from Steve, whether it was clothes or electronics. This is partially why Steve left to go join the Emperor’s Coven guard at 18, because he’d had a lot of trouble finding a path for his life and being a guard would at least bring in some steady income.

• Matt hung onto every one of Steve’s letters he received while his brother was away in the guard. He kept them hidden behind his collection of worn Blademage books.

• Matt became obsessed with Blademage after Steve introduced him to the series, on one of his visits home. Matt felt lonely, he had no friends at school and with his parents and brother gone, he collected unique interests to pass his time. He often went exploring the Titan by himself. One day he was walking on the beach when he saw a lady digging through a ton of trash and finding treasure. He recognized her as Eda the Owl Lady from her wanted posters posted all over town. (And yes, if he’s done odd jobs for Tibbles, he’s definitely done some odd jobs for Eda.) He rooted through the trash after her and became interested in the human artifacts he found. He started a collection and researched what he could on humans and the things he’d found. He was actually excited to learn that Hexside had a Human Appreciation Society, he just felt insecure and guarded, desiring to establish his place in Hexside society as a bully because he would not get bullied at another school.

• He started pursuing construction because of his parents. All his extra energy was perfectly channeled into the track, and it was a practical career move. Lucky for them, he is good at it and he does like it. But it wasn’t until Gus introduced him to illusions that he actually felt like he’d found his calling in school. “Illusions ARE practical!” He argued with his parents when he wanted to take on illusions as a track, “Augustus taught me how to do this.” Once his parents realized he was driven and passionate about this, they relented and let him do both.

• Matt developed a crush on Gus sometime after their first trip to the ruins. But he sure as hell would not admit it. He felt stupid for crushing on his only friend, felt like he would fuck it all up and lose Gus if he knew. Besides, it was Gus, and he was so far out of Matt’s league that it wasn’t even funny. But Matt’s also a bit oblivious because he never noticed the signs that Gus liked him back, until Gus actually confesses to him a good while after everything starts to return to some normalcy after the Collector.

• Matty has the biggest potty mouth anyone can imagine. He tries not to swear around his parents, but when it’s just him and Steve home, he lets the floodgates loose. Which is convenient because Steve is just as bad, if not worse.

#matt tholomule #mattholomule #toh hcs #the owl house #toh #toh spoilers #toh steve #gus porter #gustholomule

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ur-frndly-neighborhood-memer1 · 1 year

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EVERY TIME AMITY IS BEING PROTECTIVE OF/GETTING WORRIED ABOUT LUZ

Don't mind me. I'm just casually thinking about how much Amity cares about Luz and always making sure her sweet patato is safe.

Yeah, gonna be a long list...

-Attacking Otabin to save Luz (S1 EP7)

-Keeping Luz in a magical cage to prevent her from getting hurt (S1 EP12)

-Worrying about Luz when she hears her scream while distracting Slitherbeast (S1 EP12)

-Pulling Luz to hide from Inner Willow (S1 EP15)

-Standing between Luz and Grom to protect Luz and saying "Stay away from her!" (S1 EP16)

-Rushing to go get Willow and Gus when Luz gets in trouble with Boscha (S1 EP17)

-Pushing Luz aside to protect her from Boscha's attack and getting herself injured in the process (S1 EP17)

-Tearing an abomaton apart to prevent it from stepping on her Grom photo with Luz, Willow and Gus (S2 EP2)

-Disobeying her mother for the first time in her life to save Luz's life and saying "Stay away from MY LUZ!" (S2 EP2)

-Shielding Luz with her own body to protect Luz when abomaton attacks them (S2 EP2)

-Being worried about Luz's well-being when she was sick with common mold (S2 EP9)

-Risking her own life while going to Eclipse Lake to find some Titan blood for Luz (S2 EP9)

-Silencing Hunter when he was about to threaten Luz (S2 EP9)

-Fighting Hunter and eventually giving up on the portal key when he threatens Luz's safety (S2 EP9)

-Saving Luz's life from Kikimora (S2 EP11)

-Getting overly worried when Terra mentions that Belos will meet Luz again (S2 EP11)

-Attacking Tibbles when he makes fun of Luz (S2 EP13)

-Thinking about Luz's whereabouts and trying to find out her messages (S2 EP18)

-Having a near emotional breakdown due to worrying about Luz's safety (S2 EP20)

-Attempting to attack Odalia for insulting Luz (S2 EP20)

-Worrying about Luz once she realizes she is kidnapped by Kikimora (S2 EP20)

-Rushing to Belos' castle to help Luz (S2 EP21)

-Keeping rocks from crushing Luz (S2 EP21)

-Attempting to reach Luz when she almost got pulled by Collector (S2 EP21)

-Getting worried when she can't find Luz and Hunter around (S3 EP1)

-Immediately casting a spell to prevent Luz from falling to water while fighting possessed Hunter (S3 EP1)

-Pulling Luz back from the portal door and checking if she's hurt (S3 EP2)

-Looking for Luz and Camila after attacked by Kikimora (S3 EP2)

-Covering Luz for a brief moment before getting pulled up by Collector (S3 EP3)

-Tearing up once she realizes she was about to attack Luz in the nightmare sequence (S3 EP3)

-Immediately looking for Luz when gets free of her puppet form (S3 EP3)

-Nearly breaking down in tears when Hunter mentions Luz before Camila holds her (S3 EP3)

I'm not really sure whether it's sweet or concerning... I mean yeah, Amity sure cares about Luz a lot and wants to make sure her girlfriend is okay.

Yet, it also seems a bit too much. Yeah, Amity loves Luz and you can get easily worried about the people you love.

But still, maybe Amity also should go and get some therapy... Just in case, y'know😐

#the owl house #amity blight #lumity #luz nodeda #toh luz #toh s3 #toh amity #toh lumity #Yeah Amity sure loves Luz #A LOT!!!!!#LIKE REAALLY A LOT #Eh therapy for mittens aye

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thisbelongsto-nohbodys · 1 year

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before the show ends....any Predictions for the Final Toh episode?

wrong answers only:

The person Luz saw in the in-between was King's father that was the Collector's jailer and the Bat Queen's carver.

Camila saves Luz from Belos by beating him with the bat

Luz and Camila come back home to the human realm and find that Vee is somehow engaged to be engaged to Masha

Timeskip and Luz, the girl who fought and defied authority grows up to be a cop on the Isles

Amity gets a wedding invite from Emira who's marrying Viney, Amity is asked to be her sister's bride-of-honor.

Tibbles and Kikimora get engaged

We get a brief flashback of Caleb and Evelyn and Philip

Willow uses the Green Thumb Gauntlet to help Eda and the Bat Queen rebuild the Palistrom Woods.

Gus becomes an ambassador to the human realm and works alongside Mr X to not only establish a peace between Earth, the Boiling Isles and Amphibia (and more worlds via's Titan's blood)

Luz reunites with Anne via her friendship with Marcy and we see the Trio and Luz together

The Collector gets defeated by the giraffes

Eda and Raine get married, spend the honeymoon in Vegas, runs into Grunkle Stan and Ford and then Eda wakes up afterwards and finds out that she also married Camila via an Elvis impersonator in Vegas.

A Collector comes to pick up our Collector and the new Collector is voiced by Gonzo the Great

Luz writes and publishes a graphic novel series both on Earth and the Isles about her adventures, she's up for an award and is up against Marcy's webcomic "Amphibi-Anne"

Principal Bump sees the statue the kids made of him and keeps it up in the hall

Lilith and Hooty become an archaeologist duo exploring more of the world than just the Isles

Darius takes Amity as an apprentice who surpasses him in only a few years

Raine sacrifices themselves to protect Eda but luckily one of the Titan's powers is resurrection

In the game that the Collector plays with Luz, Eda and King, he wins but Luz reveals that she caught the Rusty Smidge and thus she automatically wins

#ask #the owl house #lennythecat #watch that even tho I was just bs-ing that at least one of these comes true lol

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pageofheartdj · 1 year

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It will never stop hurting, isn't it xD

You know what sucks? That because of Collector's ending I don't even want TOH continuation. I can ignore the end while rewatching the seasons. But with continuation it will be always in my face.

That a traumatised lonely little child leaving to deal with their trauma and 'mature' on their own is a Good Thing Actually.

It breaks my heart to see this end for them. It breaks my brain, because I was invested in this world, in its themes, in its characters. The show was treating every character consistently. Everyone but Collector.

Collector is a little kid and the show was really hammering this in season 3. Collector is a vulnerable kid that faced mostly nothing but HURT and the show was REALLY hammering it in! They were tricked by siblings and the little titans were taken away from them, they were falsely accused and trapped in a horribly prolonged isolation. Titan Trappers were a murderous cult. There is no way Belos treated Collector nicely and with Collector not even knowing this. And then he was betrated. And then he had a few nice-ish months with King before he found out that King actually lied too. And then 'Ray-Ray' lied. And then when they thought they could befriend Belos again, they were blasted in the back and the person he quickly grew to care died in front of him, showing as a personal example what mortality is. And then they break down crying because Eda is hurting and King will get hurt.

And they didn't heal from ANY of this, at all. They immediately left. To be alone. Because space is BIG and they will be alone traveling from planet to planet, if that's what they will do at all, we know NOTHING.

And why? He was never eager to return to the stars and never offered to go explore with King. He never cared.

So why? Witches won't like him at first? He isn't an active threat anymore, in fact he could have helped with restorations. Hunter didn't have to leave despite also doing bad things for Belos.

Speaking of, would you be happy with Hunter's arc if he just left Boiling Isles to travel in the Human Realm, never settling in and making any lasting relationships(because Collector's planet hopping will not build him any stable relationships) and ocassioanlly visiting the Demon Realm. Just. Two lonely kids dealing with their trauma on their own. Would you be happy for Hunter to have this 'satisfying ending' too?

But the show made a point to give Hunter a stable supportive parent figure in Darius.

In fact. Everyone, kids and adults, got better after they got loved ones that support them. Every single one of them. Lilith and Eda got their relationship fixed, both reunited with parents, Amity gained Luz and Hexsquad and her relationships got better with dad and twins, Willow got support in Luz. Hunter got support in Flapjack and Willow and Gus. All of them were able to become a happier person because they always had someone by their side.

People say that Collector visists and that should be enough? No? They didn't even personally congratuled Luz, they just threw some magical fireworks, because they 'were in the area'. So it was pure luck Collector was around at all. Doesn't really scream 'ah yes they are a family like this anyway' to me. Fucking TIBBLES was there. And not the 'family member'.

Again, a little kid, kids should NEVER be alone! And don't tell me the only lesson kids need is 'kindness and forgiveness'. Wow, how easy it is to raise a child, huh. No teaching socialisation, no teaching emotional intellegence, not being a safety net for a child to feel assured and make mistakes and build healthy bases and explore the possibilities while they always have unconditional love and support.

What else. Everyone's mortality? Well leaving Demon Realm doesn't help with this at all, because all the planets have mortals too. And it's a weird goose chase for a slim possibility to find another immortal or semi-immortals, when King is Right There.

In fact this is worse, because Collector had learned a concept of mortality. But he didn't get to experience actual lasting grief, how to cope when the person is no longer in your life. The show says Collector still has supposedly close relationship with the Owl fam so he will STILL have to deal with them dying and hurting from this. Excpet there would have been no one to teach what to do with these feelings.

Collector, a little hurt kid, is in space alone, no one to help them to deal with confusing feelings, no one there to stop from doing a mistake or help to fix it and how to fix it. No one to explain new concepts. No one to warn them from interacting with bad people.

The show made a Point how Collector in all the ways that matter, is like a human child. And the show was always treating kids as kids. But suddenly the Collector gets the Fairy Tail treatment where he will never struggle with anything and there will be never ever a problem with abusive adults. Just all the hurt and not a single good adult before, and then the blissful existence from that point to the future.

Except this is a lie. The show could have suddenly redeem Belos and treat it as the most logical thing, but it's not. It just doesn't make sense no matter how the narration tries to convince you it is.

So what's the point in any of this??

#the owl house #toh #the collector #collector venting #king clawthorne #hunter deamonne

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marcmarcmomarc · 5 months

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The Owl House: The New Year’s Special

A post-epilogue special starring Luz and her two families celebrating the new year between the two realms.

Cast:

Dee Bradley Baker as Princess

Eric Bauza as Gilbert Park & Faust

Bob Bergen as Barcus

J.B. Blanc as Professor Hermonculus

Steve Blum as Salty

Benjamin Bratt as Manny Noceda

Kimberly Brooks as Skara & Eileen

Isaac Ryan Brown as Gus Porter

Bruce Carey as Mason

Matt Chapman as Steve Tholomule & Harvey Park

Parvesh Cheena as Tibblet-Tibblie Grimm Hammer III “Tibbles”

Noshir Dalal as Adrian Graye Vernworth

Felicia Day as Bria

Ariana DeBose as Tía Valentina Noceda

Elijah DeJesus @not-so-average-fangirl as Prima Gabi Noceda

Grey DeLisle as Masha, Katya, Cat, Usurper, & Bonesborough Brawl Security Guard

Jorge Diaz as Matt Tholomule

Michaela Dietz as Vee

Nik Dodani as Gavin

Deb Doetzer as Gwendolyn Clawthorne

Jason Douglas as Osran

Tati Gabrielle as Willow Park

Eileen Galindo as Flora D’splora

Peter Gallagher as Dell Clawthorne

Noah Galvin as Jerbo

Kimiko Glenn as Long-Haired Bat Kid

Elizabeth Grullon as Camila Noceda

Harvey Guillén as Angmar

Arin Hanson as Eye-Eating Monster, Snaggleback, & Papa Titan

Alex Hirsch as King Clawthorne & Hooty

Holly @hollowtones as Mohawk Bat Kid

Chris Houghton as Bill

Oscar Isaac as Tío Emilio Noceda

Keston John as Darius Deamonne

Cissy Jones as Lilith Clawthorne

Mela Lee as Kikimora

Jason Liebrecht as Vitimir

Erica Lindbeck as Emira Blight

Kevin Locarro as Braxas

Rachael MacFarlane as Odalia Blight

Ally Maki as Viney

Wendie Malick as Eda Clawthorne

Shannon McKain as Morton

Mosco Moon as Olive (Gabi’s Girlfriend)

Rita Moreno as Abuela Luna Noceda

Ryan O’Flanagan as Edric Blight

Johnny Ortiz as Tío Mateo Noceda

Penny Parker @snapscube as Bucket Hat Bat Kid

Jim Pirri as Alador Blight

Anairis Quiñones as Azura

Matthew Rhys as Philip Wittebane/Emperor Belos

Kevin Michael Richardson as Tarak, Bonesborough Brawl Commentator, & Tom

Eden Riegel as Boscha, Amelia, Bo, & Abominations

Bumper Robinson as Hieronymus Bump

Zeno Robinson as Hunter, Derwin, & Male Camp Friend

Sarah-Nicole Robles as Luz Noceda

Avi Roque as Raine Whispers

Isabella Rosselini as Bat Queen

Roger Craig Smith as Jacob Hopkins & Warden Wrath

Hailee Steinfeld as Female Camp Friend

April Stewart as Greater Basilisk

Christopher Swindle as Graveyard Keeper

Fred Tatasciore as Malphas

Jen Taylor as Hettie Cutburn

Dana Terrace as Tinella Nosa & Severine

Morgan Terry as Hecate

Kari Wahlgren as Amber, Eberwolf, Villainous Lucy, & Barista

Mae Whitman as Amity Blight

Gary Anthony Williams as Perry Porter

Debra Wilson as Terra Snapdragon

Fryda Wolff as The Collector

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thousandyearphantombunker · 12 days

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the show should have never had belos be some puritan white dude, the boiling isles should have stayed this hostile whacky dimension instead of just bland and good except for that one evil dude, there's so much the show could have done tibbles lording his power over Eda and not letting her get the medicine she needed because of his own greed, boiling rain, the amity who would kill to be successful and if she saw a disabled witch like Willow achieving her level of success with an accommodation of some kind she'd be furious and call it cheating, Willow and Luz struggling because they have a disability in an environment that is super sink or swim and success is viewed in a very narrow lens, like what if bump didn't accept Luz into hexside because she uses glyphs? or maybe lean into the idea that people will do anything to get the money or success or power they want or need- steal cheat extort- having the isles a hostile dystopian land of intrigue, but then the story would lose the wish fulfillment element and we wouldn't get 'BAd EvIL PuRiTAn' and 'progressive' commentary- you already have bi, gay, disabled etc protagonists maybe focus on that, also fuck the worldbuilding. it felt like rejecting the coven system was like going into a trade school or straight into the workforce not like a rebellion or avoiding a cult, it felt more like being pushed to go to college and being told dropping out of school was bad- by making into a cult the show shot itself in the foot, it could have leaned into the idea not everybody wants to be an archmage or ceo or doctor or go to magic harvard that there's different types of success or that we should stop fucking over people who dont want to do something academic or something about greed and capitalism or the school system and how the isles values money and power over everything else there's a video by bad writing advice on how not to write cults and yeah toh is rough and again the show didn't need to do this, they didn't need to write a story about a cult, or they could have tied it in better with themes or greed and corruption but they already had an interesting world that they could have explored, how the owl beast curse worked exactly, also why has no one but Luz learned glyphs? We know witches did magic differently back then what if instead of Luz learning magic so easily she had to go some quest to find an ancient teacher or learn an ancient language and study super hard and learn how her magic was mechanically different from the rest of the isles, I reiterate the cult thing and wish fulfillment elements are not only unneeded but they are so contradictory! Belos whole plan hinged on the coven system and bump just gets away with letting Luz and the detention kids take every track- what if bump got arrested? And then another principal who was god awful took over- that would have been something! What if bump started to open secret underground classes for kids who wanted to take more than one course? Like there's potential there for a story but then it wouldn't fit the wish fulfillment element of the show, and it would make Luz look selfish it's just so fucking annoying pick one or the other! I love me a soft magic system and I think TOH was okay enough but I feel like the owl house could've been more creative, your magic comes from a dead titan which your land is built upon, imagine if there really where people who could speak with the titan? Could they control the city or landscape in some way, some crazy body horror shit where they can fuse with titan or control different bodily functions of the titan like it's nervous system moving the continent or it's legs etc, what makes that spell circle from amity controlling and abomination different from the one Willow uses to control plants- they are drawing the same thing- why must a witch master the basics of magic to get a palisman? Palismans are also used as disability aides why not show more of that? They could have developed so much more, the weather could have made for some great gags, just make the world building interesting

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sepublic · 1 year

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Dana Terrace officially released this!!!

I guess this confirms we’ll get a new poster for each special... Can’t wait to do the “Finally I have them all” meme for the S3 posters!

This confirms basically what we thought, such as Hexside being a hideaway (room of hidden shortcuts returns perhaps?) and so forth... Will the ground come alive or is that just general Demon Realm appearance? Will King’s dad come alive, since the limbed aesthetic was confirmed to have come from an early idea of the Titan trying to regenerate?

The Collector dressed up King like himself shdjjsdkl it’s wrong but it’s also kinda hilarious and cute. Reminds me of what Tibbles did to King... Poor guy can’t escape being treated as someone’s doll. If you look closely, there’s a bandaid on King’s skull! Could the Collector not heal it, or did they not? Maybe King saw Luz’s scar and insisted he keep his to be Boo-Boo Buddies, wonder how King feels about that...

Is there any significance to just one half of the Collector’s face seen, or is it just for the blue poster? Will we explore another side to them, literally and figuratively, another personality? Are they the moon to Luz and/or King’s sun? King doesn’t have his collar...

I wonder if adolescence will play a theme in this episode, given these little kids and Hexside the school! And STILL NO ADULTS!!!! Did something happen unrelated to the Collector? The Titan Trappers? Covenscouts and/or Coven Heads who are in denial and blame the rebels for the draining spell? Will Luz have to handle the Collector first before she sees Eda again?!

If so, then these specials really are divided amongst the main trio as I suspected, with the first about Luz, the second King, and then finally Eda; Belos’ descendant, for whom it all started with in some ways, the oldest of the group. The parent Luz and King share, one of the central motifs of the show... The final confrontation with Belos involves Evelyn’s descendants! Go figure. Eda is a foundational concept behind TOH, not just for her house but the entire premise of an old witch mentor and her apprentice was what started it all! Back to the most foundational, conceptual roots...

#the owl house #dana terrace #luz noceda #camila noceda #king clawthorne #the owl house collector #speculation #analysis

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