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an-spideog · 5 months

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Don't Use Duolingo if You Really Want to Learn Irish

That title is a bit dramatic, but I really don't think that duolingo is a useful tool for Irish, especially in its current state, so I want to talk a bit about why, and I'll also talk about some alternatives.

Pronunciation

The first and most egregious issue is that at some point recently-ish, duo decided to start using Text-To-Speech for their Irish course, rather than recordings of a native speaker. The problem here is that their TTS is not trained on native speakers of Irish and pronounces words incorrectly. It doesn't make consistent distinctions between broad and slender consonants for example.

Irish has no standard pronunciation, so I understand how it can feel weird to choose just one dialect for the purposes of pronunciation (the old recordings were from a speaker of Galway Irish), but having just one dialect is much better than TTS which sounds like a learner, imagine if they had TTS for the French course which sounded like an anglophone schoolkid trying to pronounce french, and claimed they were teaching you how to speak french!

Grammar

Duo tends to be correct on grammar at least, which is a start. But often people using it get very confused about the grammar because duo doesn't explain any of it. I think there's a place for immersion in language learning, and I don't think everything has to be explained like that, but within duo's system of sentence testing and exercises like that, not having any explanation for why it's "mo chóta" and not "mo cóta" can be really confusing. Duo used to have more grammar information, it's a shame that they removed it, I wonder why they did it.

Money and Motivation

Duolingo is a business, and their motivation is not to help you learn a language 'fully', but to keep you using their app and hopefully have a higher chance of sharing it with others, competing with others, buying or causing others to buy memberships or lingots or any other in-app purchases.

I don't want to make it out like duo is some big conspiracy and they're tricking people, I don't think that's the case, but it's good to remember that their primary motivation is to keep people using the app, rather than help people move to a level in a language where they don't need the app anymore.

Keep this in mind whenever you see people trying to sell you stuff for language learning.

Why do people use Duolingo

I do get it, and I don't want to make anyone feel bad for using duo, there's a ton of reasons people tend towards it at first 1. It's really well known, so especially if you're learning a language and haven't heard of other resources for it, you'll check duolingo 2. It's very motivating for a lot of people, checking in every day and forming that habit is a really good way of sticking with a language 3. It's fun, people enjoy it

If you use it for reason 3. and you still like it, then don't worry about this post, I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yums, keep having fun!

If you use it for reasons 1. or 2. you can still keep using it if you like, but I want to suggest some other things which you might find helpful in trying to get to a higher level in Irish.

Other Resources

To address the pronunciation issue, I'd heavily recommend you disregard the pronunciation in duolingo, if you're looking for more reliable sources of pronunciation, I'd look towards recordings of native speakers, you can find that on:

Teanglann and Foclóir (they use the same recordings)

Fuaimeanna

and a really useful and underused one: https://davissandefur.github.io/minimal-pairs/ where you can hear the difference between similar sounds that English speakers often mix up in Irish.

A lot of people like duolingo because it's nice to have a clear path forward, a progression that you can get into without too much decision-making. For this I recommend getting a good textbook or course and working through it, the ones I'll recommend also have native speaker audio on them.

Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail, this book teaches Galway Irish, not just in pronunciation but in grammar too. It's quite dense but it's well thought out and well explained.

Teach Yourself Irish (1961) this book is available for free online, and is a really good option if you're interested in Cork Irish (Munster), and have some experience with grammatical terminology. I used this book myself and really liked it, but it's very intense and not for everyone. (If you do end up using it, feel free to skip the appendices at the start, they're more of a reference and sometimes put people off from actually getting to the first chapter. Also if you have any questions about it or need any help just let me know.)

If you want a video course, there's a great course called "Now You're Talking" which is available for free online, along with audio files and worksheets here. It features Donegal Irish and leads into the more intermediate level course called Céim ar Aghaidh also available online.

There's other textbooks that I have less experience with (Buntús na Gaeilge, Gaeilge/Gramadach Gan Stró, etc.) but if they work for you, stick with them, there's nothing worse than not making progress because you keep switching resources trying to find the "perfect one"

Whether or not you continue to use Duolingo, I would really really encourage you to try engaging with media in Irish. People often shy away from this when they're learning because they don't feel like they're "ready" yet. But you basically never feel like you're ready, you just have to try and find something near your level and try to get comfortable with not understanding everything. This is where you learn a huge portion of the language, you hear how things are pronounced you see what words mean in what contexts, getting input in your target language is so important!

I know content can be kind of hard to find, so I'll make a few recommendations here: There's a wealth of content available for free online (more if you're in ireland but some internationally) on TG4 If you're still starting out, I'd recommend trying to watch some kids shows since they'll have simpler language and will be easier to follow. I wouldn't recommend using English subtitles when you watch them. Some good options include:

Dónall Dána: an Irish dub of Horrid Henry, silly and childish but the actors have good Irish and importantly the show has Irish language subtitles, they don't always match but if you're still beginning and can't necessarily get everything by ear, they're really useful. (Mostly Galway Irish)

Curious George: another dub, again with Irish language subtitles (I can't remember what dialects were in it off the top of my head but I'd assume mostly galway again)

Seó Luna: No subtitles, but a good option if you're aiming for Munster Irish, the lead character has Kerry Irish

Miraculous: No subtitles but a better show than most of the other kids' ones and more bearable to watch as an adult (Mostly Galway Irish)

Ros na Rún: Moving away from kids shows, a long running soap opera, this has Irish subtitles and a really good mix of dialects within the show. If you're finding the kids shows boring or too easy I'd really recommend it, but it can be complex because of the amount of characters, dialects, and plotlines. I'd recommend starting at the beginning of a newer season and just trying to catch on to what's happening as you go.

There are a lot of books, if you live in Ireland you can get nearly any Irish book for free from a library, so please check out your local library or request some of these from other libraries in the system:

There's a series of fairytales (Rápúnzell, Luaithríona etc.) by Máiréad Ní Ghráda which are illustrated and for children, which are a really good option for when you're just starting out reading

There's kids books about Fionn and the Fianna by Tadhg Mac Dhonnagáin

There's a cute little kids' book in Kerry Irish about a cat named Mábúis

Leabhar Breac has a lot of graphic novels, some of them based on Irish mythology, some on other stuff. The fact that they're illustrated can make it a lot easier to follow even if you don't understand all the words at first.

Gliadar has just released their Scott Pilgrim translation

If you're looking for something a bit more advanced you can look at some of the books for adult learners by Comhar, they contain simplified language and glossaries but have full original adult stories.

And if you're wanting full, natural, native-level Irish there's a load of books by those same groups, and others like An Gúm, Cló Iar-Chonnacht, Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne, Éabhlóid, Coiscéim, and more.

And don't shy away from older books written in Seanchló either, they can be more challenging but it's a whole extra world of books

If you're trying to improve your listening comprehension, I definitely recommend listening to shows on Raidió na Gaeltachta, hearing native Irish speakers talk at full speed is really good practice. But I get that it can be overwhelming at first. Here are some things you can do as you build up to that:

Watching those same TV shows I mentioned without subtitles is a good way to build up listening skills.

Vifax is a website where you can practice listening to short news segments and answer questions on them, then getting to look at the transcript with notes afterwards.

Snas is kind of the evolution of vifax, now using clips from both the news and Ros na Rún.

I really hope that this post can help people move away from duolingo if they're looking to take their Irish learning to the next level, if you've got any questions, just let me know!

#gaeilge #irish language #irish #irish langblr #gaelainn #learning irish #as gaeilge #duolingo #resources

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aeriona · 9 months

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HI HELLO! Welcome to my completely unnecessarily detailed analysis on how I think Inkfish languages could work! + with art! yay! This is all pretty rough and not fully fleshed out (I don't have the time or patience for that lmao). THIS IS A LONG POST.

Okay, so there's dozens of languages spoken by cephalopods in the Mollusc Era but the main two I'll talk about are Inkling (or Inklish) and Octarian, spoken mostly by Inklings and Octolings respectively.

In cephalopods, speech is formed using the syrinx and larynx, two fancy vocal organs that most other species don't have together. The larynx makes sounds using the radula (tongue) and vocal folds in the throat, it's clear and pretty easy to understand as the sound itself resembles human speech, albeit warbled. The syrinx makes noise by vibrating air at the base of the trachea, it's often trickier to follow as it can sound more like droning background noise than words sometimes.

An inkfish can use both of them at once, resulting in an EXTREMELY complicated language system where words can be made up of multiple layered syllables, and several words and sentences can even be said at the same time.

As you can probably imagine, all of this is LITERAL HELL to learn for species who don’t have both a syrinx and a larynx (so basically anyone who isn't a cephalopod). But fear not! There are many simple and more inclusive alternatives, dialects and other cool stuff like sign language and instant TTS technology for people who physically can't pronounce Inkling/Octarian or even vocalise at all (eg. jellyfish).

Both main Inkfish languages can be broken down into laryngeal words (made with the larynx), syringeal/drone words (made with the syrinx) or a combination of both, called dual-toned/layered words.

Keep in mind that both word-types can be spoken at the same time. Layering can be used to add additional connotations to a word, or to even make a new one entirely. For example, the laryngeal noun ‘bird’ combined with the syringeal noun ‘metal’ spoken together will create the layered Inkling word ‘aeroplane’, like a compound word in English.

Dual-toned stuff is more common in Inkling than in Octarian, as the language is older and has more loanwords. Inklish's dependence on the larynx gives it a higher-pitched, clearer sound whereas Octarian's more monotone syrinx-based structure results in a deep, almost guttural sound.

Both cephalopod languages are heavy on tone and pronunciation, resulting in a plenty of accent indicators in written scripts. I used the in-game fonts for the art but if I were to rework it, each letter would probably be more complicated than traditional Mandarin on steroids. So hell on earth, basically.

On a side note, all of these language features open possibilities for some very cool poetry and literature. An inkfish author could write a poem with two lines of thought occurring at once, or a book with vivid emotional undertones written inside the prose. Pretty cool.

OKAY that's all I have to say thank you for reading! Hopefully this makes sense, feel free to send asks or whatever if it's confusing and I'll do my best to explain it better!

#I should go outside instead of analysing the silly squid game #I tried my best with my scientific and (limited) linguistic knowledge don't yell at me if I get something wrong lmao #my art #splatoon #xeno tag #xeno inkling #xeno octoling #splatoon 3 #splatoon art #speculative biology #speculative zoology #conlang #splatoon headcanon #inkling #octoling #splatoon theory

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darthstitch · 2 years

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Professor Mysterious and Professor Wet Cat

This is my take on that Dreamling post making the rounds about Hob and Dream being uni professors and that Hob is surprisingly NOT the prof who overshares and Dream is the one who inadvertently does.

Buckle up, kids, let's have some fun with this. Also, gentle reminder: NOBODY TELL NEIL. SHHHH!

This time around, Hob's using his proper name, Robert Gadling, because it's been a while since he's trotted that one out and he kinda likes the seeming rightness that the once upon a time near-illiterate medieval peasant that he'd been was now teaching at a rather prestigious university. However, he's not prone to sharing much about his personal life to his students. He's still warm and friendly, but he's cautious about letting Certain Things slip.

Hilariously, the things that do slip end up making him everyone's favorite university cryptid. Sometimes Hob slips into Middle English when he's stressed or emotional. Sometimes he might use odd old-fashioned sounding oaths like "God's wounds," "Holy Jesu," and "Mother Mary's teats" (this last one sends everyone into spasms of laughter).

The literature department ADORES him because they can always drag Professor Gadling off to read Chaucer in its original form or even medieval French, his pronunciation perfect and dead on. Shakespeare is the only thing he'll flat out refuse to read because in any universe this Fuzzy Blue Alien's gonna write, his hatred of the Bard is the stuff of legend.

The students universally agree that Professor G is basically British Indiana Jones, because he's also known to have lethal expertise in medieval weapons. There's been more than a few fantasies inspired during the booked-solid outdoor demonstrations where he works in tandem with the other medieval history professors to show everyone how medieval weapons worked. Apparently, his favorite weapons are the longbow, the bastard sword and daggers.

Obviously, this all leads to Professor Gadling being the campus crush and his relationship status is a matter of hot speculation even if he's made it perfectly clear he was not about to violate his ethical standards or position as a teacher. It still doesn't stop the fevered fantasies of more than a few grad students, though. But that's all they're gonna get.

And then, there's the new literature teacher, Professor T. Murphy.

To everyone's disappointment, Professor Murphy is only going to be at the university for a limited series of lectures. Word of mouth spread fast, and his classes were now booked solid and he was going to be asked to return, once his apparently very busy schedule is cleared.

7. Of course, he's an instant campus crush, with the "Goth angel" looks, the Edward Cullen jokes are definitely flying and there's more than a few students melting after they heard him speak. "That Voice" is always referred to in capital letters and it's well deserved.

8. "Campus crush" turns to "Official Precious Blorbo" once the students all discover that behind the whole regal and imperious Goth Prince vibe that he gave off, was an adorkable darling wet cat who was just completely gone on "my beloved." If he's discussing a love sonnet or poem, there's definitely going to be a reference to "my beloved" or "my dearest" or "my love." It's never sickeningly cloying and the sweet tiny little smile that takes over his normally serious face is like sunshine. The kilig feels are real.

9. He's also forever worrying that he's not enough for "my dearest" as he's rather painfully aware "of my lack in human graces" - which everyone translates to "OMG HELP I HAVE THE SOCIAL SKILLS OF A SCRUNKLY WET CAT." He frets that he's somehow failing his beloved, who is infinitely sweet and thoughtful and caring and that Professor Murphy is the selfish one, really, who doesn't deserve the man.

10. The students, of course, immediately ADOPT him. Tesco ice cream runs are done, YouTube videos on cooking and invites to kitchens are extended so Professor Murphy could practice making something that is "not a catastrophic culinary disaster unfit for human consumption." There was a session on the language of flowers, which everyone had enjoyed. For a while, flowers with significant meanings were presented to sweethearts and lovers all over the uni. There's an unforgettable after-class meeting in which the craft-inclined students teach Professor Murphy how to knit and crochet and he was really rather proud of the scarf he had created.

11. Professor Murphy's raven had been rather entertained playing with the yarn scraps. The students learn that the raven's name is Matthew.

12. And then, dashing, mysterious Professor Gadling finally peeks into Professor Murphy's class.

"The things I do for you, myne owne hertis rote. Bloody Shaxberd."

"But you do read him so very well, my love." And there it was, that tiny, soft, sweet smile, now aimed in Professor Gadling's direction.

Professor Gadling sighs and puts a hand over his chest. There's a very familiar scarf draped over his neck. "God's wounds, dove, warn your poor, long-suffering husband before you do these things."

"What 'things,' dearest?"

Professor Gadling waves his arms helplessly. The scarf slips a little, offering a tantalizing view of a purplish mark on his throat. "That thing!" He looks appealingly at the students, who are now all stifling their delighted giggles. "Look at him! My heart can only take so much!"

And that was how everyone found out that Professors Gadling and Murphy were actually happily married.

Incidentally, the Shakespeare reading, in which both professors took part, was a true kilig apocalypse. Instant campus legend.

#dreamling #the sandman #dream of the endless #hob gadling #dream x hob #professor dream #professor gadling #i crack what i want #history and literature class cryptids #pffthahahaha #shhh nobody tell neil

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becausegoodheroesdeservekidneys · 11 months

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Okay every time I read one of your celtophobia posts I am filled with immediate and incandescent rage, enough to propulse the responsible idiots into space but not to bring them back again. I'm really sorry about the """""lecturer"""""" you had to sit through this morning, and any other instances that happen. Hugs.

That said, I am very worried of doing the same thing and want to make my utmost sure I don't, so I thought it'd be okay to ask someone from a language that has to fight for space for politeness tricks. Apologies if this is not okay!

Context: I'm from continental Europe, which means English is my second language (I speak three languages and a half ish, the half is in process, because #languagenerd). I'm moving to Ireland come September, and I'm absolutely terrified of offending the good Irish people when I don't know how to pronounce their names, surnames, street names, or anything else; or, worse, try and end up butchering them in the manner of the British.

Dilemma: How can I ask for help when pronouncing things in a delicate way? I was thinking of signing up to Irish courses once I'm there, but for now I'm panicking about the actual move so I can't get a head start with that because my brain space is limited, and other than watching YouTube videos with the most common Irish names/words ahead of arriving, I honestly don't know. I want to be culturally sensitive and make sure they feel respected and not Colonised, Part Three Hundred, but also they shouldn't have to bear the weight of my lack of cultural knowledge and Teach Me? Idk. Just thoughts.

Good question! I suppose it's a two-part procedure:

Step 1: Learn a pronunciation guide. By that I just mean get to grips with the alphabet, common phonemes, etc and how those are said. With something like Welsh it's super easy (because phonetic), something like English it's super hard (because not phonetic); Irish is a bit more complex than Welsh, but still more phonetic than English. You might not be able to get to a "perfect every time" place, but you can get yourself to a "right most times" place.

Step 2: If you encounter a name you aren't 100% sure of, offer your best educated guess when asking. This shows that you have done the work, you are making a genuine attempt, but you still have the humility to ask to make sure.

When I say "best educated guess", I mean it's clear that you're guessing based on a working knowledge of the language rules in question. In Welsh, for example, if someone asks me how to pronounce "Cymru", there is a world of difference between someone saying "Sim-roo" (based on English pronunciation rules transposed onto Welsh) and "Kim-ree" (based on Welsh pronunciation rules, they just forgot which pronunciation of 'y' to use for the syllable it's in.) If someone says to me "How do you say that? Sim-roo?" then I know they haven't attempted any prior learning (though points for being interested enough to ask.) But if they say "Am I right in thinking it's Kim-ree?" then I know they've made the effort themselves, they've done the work, they just have a carry error that's skewed the answer.

Plus, you may well be right! And will be right more and more often the longer you're in Ireland.

If it helps, there's an Irish pronunciation guide here that's pretty good (or was back when I used it), and teanglann.ie is a pretty good resource for this, as it's a dictionary that lets you hear the words aloud and explains grammatical uses. (Irish people please feel free to add any other resources to the notes if you feel so inclined!)

As a final note, mind, given that you don't have time atm to dedicate brain space to this, speaking as a Welsh person I would be absolutely fine with someone saying to me "Sorry, I haven't had chance to learn yet, how do I say this?", or some variant thereof. Or, frankly, anything that's just... a polite request, and not laughing about it. I would take a thousand instances of "How do I say that? Sim-roo?" over even one "I don't know how to say that, haha" because the former is still caring enough to ask. So don't panic! A polite request will see you right.

#asks #wales!#closed for cleaning on mondays #linguistics

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visorforavisor · 1 year

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as an Irish (we don’t call it “Gaelic”, ever) speaker and a Sunny fan, I thought it would be fun to do a bit of a post about the Irish-language scene in The Gang’s Still in Ireland, because it’s not a scene I see widely discussed but I adore it.

some background. I am not a native Gaeilgeoir (Irish speaker) — my first language is English — but I started learning it age five and have always had very high grades in it and a huge love for it. I was hugely excited about Charlie Kelly being able to read Irish in the previous episode, and even more so when he turned out to be able to speak it.

Colm Meaney, the actor who plays Shelley Kelly, grew up in Ireland and as such would have learned Irish throughout his time in school. (this has been required by law more or less since Irish independence, and it was already quite common before that. nowadays, you can get exemptions for things like dyslexia but otherwise you have to do it.) this is clear in his ease with the language. (I will do a post about where in Ireland Shelley lives at some point, because there aren’t many areas where Irish is the principal language, but that is for another day!) both the actor and the character have easy and good Irish.

Charlie Day, as an Italian-American, obviously does not actually speak the language and presumably learned the lines as a bunch of gibberish sounds. (nonetheless, some of his pronunciations do suggest he had the words written down non-phonetically too.) his delivery of the lines is god damn amazing. Charlie Kelly’s Irish is not remotely American-accented. if I heard someone speaking Irish like that, I’d assume they sounded Irish when speaking English. he doesn’t even sound neutral in Irish; he does actively have an accent (the word choices are more non-regional, not pointing to any of the three distinct dialects, but this makes sense as the same is true of Shelley’s Irish). his pronunciation is so on point and his accent is seriously just a delight to listen to. that’s serious effort to have been put in by an American in a show that routinely makes fun of Irish-Americans! I cannot stress enough how cool it is to see my national language like this and how good a job he does.

as a side note, Charlie Kelly finding Irish much easier to read than English makes total sense! he clearly has dyslexia, as well as intellectual disabilities and autism, so literacy being tricky is totally fair, but is probably being made worse in English by how much of a god damn ridiculous illogical irregular mess the language is. English has around two hundred irregular verbs, and that’s before we even begin to consider the irregularity of its spelling. Irish has eleven irregular verbs, multiple of which are only irregular in one tense. its spelling is entirely consistent and, once the rules are known, any word (pretty much) can be flawlessly pronounced from reading it or flawlessly spelled from hearing it. (I promise Irish names make sense. just not if you try to use English rules on them. the languages are very different!) Irish is one of the most regular languages out there.

so, I thought I’d go through the actual scene. I’m going to put each line, the direct translation, the subtitle provided, and a comment. hopefully this will be interesting to someone other than me!

·—·

“is mise do pheannchara, a Charlie.” (Shelley)

direct translation: “I’m your pen pal, Charlie.”

subtitle provided: “I’m your pen pal, Charlie.”

okay, so they translate “pen pal” two different ways in this scene. the first, used here, is “peannchara”. this is a compound word, much like all those long words you get in German. it’s a perfectly good choice given there is no one standard choice for translating that concept.

“tá brón orm, ach ní thuigim cad atá ráite agat. is féidir liom gibberish a léamh, ach ní féidir liom í a labhairt.” (Charlie)

direct translation: “I’m sorry, but I don’t understand what you’ve said. I’m able to read gibberish, but I’m not able to speak it.”

subtitle provided: “I’m sorry. I don’t understand what you just said. I read gibberish, but I don’t speak it.”

I would slightly disagree with the subtitles here. the “just” bit isn’t expressed at all. in fact, there is no Irish equivalent to that word, and we often just use the English one in the middle of an Irish sentence because of this. however, I expect that RCG (Rob McElhenney, Charlie Day, Glenn Howerton) wrote the subtitles and then handed them to an Irish translator, in which case the translator did a perfectly good job. a couple of notes about the use of “gibberish” here. I love it. firstly, we totally do drop English words into sentences like that. secondly, I really like the choice to use the feminine form of “it” here (that is, to make “gibberish” a feminine noun). all languages except English are feminine nouns in Irish as a rule, so it’s just a lovely detail calling back to the fact that Charlie thinks of it as the gibberish language. also, Charlie Day really does absolutely nail that voiceless velar fricative (the consonant sound in “ach”, as in Scottish “loch” or any number of German words), a sound even many natively English-speaking Irish people are lazy about. good on him.

“níl aon ciall le sin. sé á labhairt anois!” (Shelley)

direct translation: “there’s no sense to that. it’s being spoken now!”

subtitle provided: “that doesn’t make any sense. you’re speaking it now!”

I adore the phrasing of the first sentence here. thoroughly authentic. there are much more obvious ways to phrase it, but this is absolutely what a native speaker might go with. same goes for the second, actually. Colm Meaney says the second line in a sort of shortened way (same idea as how we might turn “do not” into “don’t”) so I’ve struggled slightly with how to directly translate it. interestingly, Shelley categorises “gibberish” as a masculine noun here, but this isn’t really wrong since it doesn’t have an official grammatical gender due to not being an actual Irish word. just a little odd. also, to fit better to the subtitle of the second sentence, I personally would’ve gone with “tá sé á labhairt agat anois” rather than “tá sé á labhairt anois” (the full version of what Shelley says), as this includes the information of by whom it is being spoken.

“’s é mo dheartháir mo chara pinn.” (Charlie)

direct translation: “it’s my brother that’s my pen pal.”

subtitle provided: “but my pen pal is my brother.”

firstly, to be clear, the nuance of the sentence structure here is not captured in either of the above translations because there simply is not an English equivalent to it. secondly, Charlie uses a contraction here by shortening “is é mo dheartháir mo chara pinn”. super cool. also, there’s that other translation of “pen pal”! this one is “cara pinn”, which uses the Irish genitive case (the word mutates instead of using an equivalent of the English word “of”; this case also exists in other languages including Swedish, German, Latin, and Greek). I like this translation very much too. both work! Charlie Day again delivers this line really nicely, even stressing the word for “brother” (and pronouncing its initial consonant mutation absolutely gorgeously)! I am truly very impressed.

“níl aon fhírinne le sin, a mhic. ’s é do chara pinn… d’athair.” (Shelley)

direct translation: “there’s no truth to that, son. it’s your pen pal who is… your father.”

subtitle given: “no son. your pen pal is your… father.”

so, I really disagree with the first sentence of the subtitles here. it works, but also misses a lot of the beautiful nuance that could have been got. I would have gone with “that’s not true, son” or, more likely, “that’s not right, son”. I also disagree with the placement of the ellipsis in the second sentence, as you see (and my frustrations in translating this sentence structure to English continue, as well). however I like the use of “a mhic” (“son”) here, very much. this is a mutated form of “mac”, meaning “son” (yes, as in all of those Irish surnames; they all just basically say who the person is the son of). it carries both meanings that exist in English: an actual son, but also the use of the word as an affectionate way to refer to any man younger than the (usually male) speaker. this is a really nice choice.

·—·

so, yeah! those are my thoughts. feel free to ask any questions you like. I love this scene so much. as well as the reasons above about how good the translation and delivery is, I also love two other main things about this.

firstly, the level of dignity given to the language. Sunny makes fun of Irish-Americans all the time, but doesn’t really do the same to Irish people from Ireland, which I like (I do also wanna talk about Mac and Charlie as members of the Irish diaspora because it is so so interesting, but that is for another day). Irish as a language is not often given dignity, especially in American or English media, so I really love that it isn’t the butt of the joke here.

secondly, that such a significant scene is delivered through this language. just wonderful. after fourteen and a half series, we finally discover the biological father, and the scene cannot be separated from this beautiful language. it just is so perfect.

RCG, and of course Charlie Day in particular, we Gaeilgeoirí (Irish speakers) thank you! our little language made it to the screens of so many people around the world.

I hope this was interesting haha.

·—·

edits: fixed some things I mistyped.

#always sunny #iasip #sunny #it’s always sunny in philadelphia #irish #gaeilge #irish language #charlie kelly #charlie day #colm meaney #rob mcelhenney #glenn howerton #megan ganz #rcg #ireland #irish diaspora

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butternutsquashthesenutz · 9 months

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RWRB hcs probably pt. 1-

•After they get married everyone (mostly June and Nora) started calling Alex princess. Like, "shut up, princess"

•Henry has read MANY fanfics and written several of his own. This includes a secret five chapter story about him and Alex that stays hidden in the depths of his computer

•I know Taylor Swift is a controversial topic in this fandom, but you cannot tell me Henry "queer historian, writer, and dramatic gay boy" would not jam out to and cry over ts songs alone in his room

•David loves cuddling with Alex, and Henry calls him a traitor, but really he finds it adorable

•Alex has definitely brought some feral animal home that he found on the street hoping to save it and raise it as a pet, and then Henry made him give it to the shelter and he cried all night

•June and Nora get a cat. That's it. They're just cat moms

•When Pez, June, and Nora are all in the same place, they are most likely gonna sleep together

•Phillip gets better and he and Henry are able to work on mending their relationship after Mary dies and neither of them have to deal with her manipulation and abuse

•Alex posts lots of thirst traps, and Henry dies every time

•Alex calls Henry lots of pet names I'm Spanish, and also just in general talks to him a lot in Spanish. Henry has very low understanding of what Alex is saying for the first couple years, but he still melts

•Henry eventually tries to learn Spanish and after a while he can carry a conversation. Oscar often makes fun of his pronunciation though

•Alex is an apple user Henry is an android user. They argue about it often

•Alex's shit got rocked when Hamilton came out. He saw it 10 times

•They continue to have a New Year's party for several years after Ellen leaves office.

•They have a daughter and a son, the son is Henry and June's biologically, and the daughter's Alex and Bea's biologically. Both are referred to as aunt though. Also they used IVF not sex, just to be clear.

•When Alex turns 35, a petition is spread around social media trying to get him to run for president. It gets double the needed signatures, but he doesn't end up running.

•Alex usually tops, but not always. Henry is usually more dominant though.

•I know in cannon Bea gets married to someone (presumably a man) but I hc that she's also gay and meets a girl whose picking her friend up from and na meeting. (Idk, I have a whole story set out for Bea's love life)

•Not really a hc, but Henry has def ridden Alex while wearing a cowboy hat

•Pez always buys the children of the super six super lavish and expensive gifts when ever he visits, and becomes the favorite of the aunts and uncles

•After their first fight once married, Alex has a huge panic attack thinking they won't make it together, but Henry calms him down and it doesn't happen again

•Zhara and Shaan have a daughter who is the scariest little girl in the world. Alex is legitimately scared to get on her bad side.

•David has his own insta account and he has many photos in little outfits

•Henry and Alex write letters to each other every time one of them has to go somewhere for work, just for old times sake

•Henry's first novel absolutely kills all the queer teens, and is basically that universe's RWRB

•Alex often steals Henry's Jaffa cakes and won't ever admit it. Henry knows, and he finds it adorable

•Ever so often Alex will get super into some new topic and do loads of research, and write essays or make presentations on it and then share it with Henry so he can teach him everything he now knows.

•Lowkey canon, but Henry's a Maurauders era fan

•He's also a Tumblr girly and has had a secret blog for years

•The super six do slideshow nights, here's an example of one of those nights: Henry: People from History You Didn't Know Where Queer, Nora: The Statistical Likelihood of Each of Us Releasing a Rap Album, Pez: Rating Everyone's Exes, Bea: The Most Embarrassing Stories About Henry I Can Think of, Alex: Hottest Politicians Around the World, June: The Most Embarrassing Stories About Alex I Can Think of (Her and Bea worked together)

•Occasionally Henry will use an American term (like saying chips when he meant crisps) and Alex will use a British term (like jumper instead of sweater), and both get very upset when it happens (whoever didn't slip up finds it hilarious)

•They joke around whenever a gossip site releases an article about their relationship, like, "oh look, I've apparently left you and headed back to England after you cheated on me" "oh, good for you, that was a rude thing for me to do"

#red white and royal blue #red white & royal blue #rwrb #rwrb alex #rwrb henry #alex claremont diaz #henry fox mountchristen windsor #firstprince #rwrb headcanon #firstprince headcanons #alex x henry #henry x alex

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rainbowsky · 3 months

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I haven’t had any questions lately but love your blog and your insights. In a video of the group photo at Milan fashion week, GG is sitting next to the older man and they are talking. I figure in some videos when GG is talking to others he has translators but it does not look like anyone from his staff is around and I was wondering if they were speaking in English or what other languages he might speak. Love to hear your insights and hope you are doing well.

Hi coyote! Thanks so much, I'm glad you're enjoying my blog! 😊

The man he's seen talking with a lot is Diego Della Valle, the CEO of Tod's. GG has a fantastic relationship with him, and he even referred to him as yeye (grandpa) in his Vogue interview from the show.

Last time GG was in Milan Della Valle took GG on a tour of some beautiful sites around Italy - including the Colloseum in Rome -and some sites significant to the brand (the workshop, the flagship store, etc.). GG got to spend a lot of time with him, so they had plenty of opportunity to build a strong relationship.

You can tell just by his entire demeanour around GG that Della Valle adores GG. Which makes absolute sense given how cute, gracious and charming GG is. When GG arrived at the Tod's show this year Della Valle lit up like a Christmas tree.

They sat together last year at the Tod's show as well (those who missed out on last year's trip can check out my 'gg milan fashion week 2023' tag).

Anyway, you weren't asking about Della Valle, you were asking about how GG is able to communicate with him. The simple answer is that GG does have some English!

Many students in China learn English in school, although they sometimes don't get as much opportunity to speak it, so it's probably kind of like my French - I understand quite well to hear, read and write it, but my accent and pronunciation are a bit rough around the edges (that's putting it mildly 😅).

With the international travel he's done and all the elbow-rubbing he's had to do with foreign celebrities and brand stakeholders I think GG has had a lot more opportunity than the average person to exercise his language skills, so I've no doubt he's improving all the time.

He's also a huge music lover and has many times been seen singing English songs from Avril Lavigne, Ellie Goulding, Sam Smith and many more. A couple of English performances he's done in the past:

youtube

Starts at 3:22 (I'll never get over hockey player GG 🥲).

It also seems clear that GG has a general interest in languages. He knows a fair bit of Korean and he and DD are seen in The Untamed BTS speaking various languages and dialects, including English. This is also a common feature of LRLG rumors.

There are many clips to be found online of GG speaking English for ads, occasionally a few lines for drama roles, throwing in English phrases into interviews, etc. Just based those alone I think one can tell that he's got pretty good English. His pronunciation is quite good.

If you watch some of the vlogs he's posted from the international events, and some of the clips shared by brands and magazines, you can catch moments of GG having English interactions with many people at those events. One of my absolute favorites is when he's replying to a bodyguard in a vlog when he was in Florence last year (starts at 4:08).

The bodyguard is trying to teach him how to roll his r to pronounce Florence in Italian ('Firenze') and GG says, "I can't do it." The way he says it is so damn cute, I almost died when I heard it.

Anyway, so to answer your question, GG speaks in English with Della Valle and others at those events!

#bjyx #yizhan #gg milan fashion week 2024 #ggdd entertainment circle #ggdd endorsements #tod's #ggdd uncategorized #ask #english #ggdd english

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steddieas-shegoes · 9 months

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i have another hc for you if you like! this is one of my faves ever since i saw someone call wayne "tio shaped" 😆: Eddie being at least partially hispanic/latinx (i lean toward hispanic) and being fluent in spanish; i LOVE the idea of him either sweet talking or just saying the absolute filthiest stuff to steve in spanish and steve gets robin to help him learn spanish in secret (just for a bit at least) so he can know what eddie’s been saying to him

(i wrote a little drabble of this idea before here, but i would love to see your take on it too!!!!)

OKAY SO FIRST OF ALL GO READ NOELLE'S POST BECAUSE IT'S GREAT WORK 10/10.

Second of all, I don't know more than the most basic Spanish. I am relying on Google Translate, which we all know is not reliable. If something sticks out as being completely wrong, please let me know.

----------------------

"Okay, that's good!"

"Robin, you don't have to talk to me like I'm a kid," Steve said, but hid the blush on his cheeks at the praise.

"Eddie estará tan impresionado," she said with a knowing smirk.

"Eso espero."

------------------------

Robin left him with some study cards to practice being less formal with his Spanish, told him that Eddie and Wayne were used to conversational and familiar vocabulary and grammar. The last thing she wanted was for him to sound like he was reading from a textbook.

So he sat on his couch, studying, probably more than he ever studied for anything else in his life.

He needed to do this right.

He jumped when the front door opened unexpectedly, shoving his study cards between the cushions and hoping whoever it was wouldn't notice the corner of one sticking out.

"Dios, cómo te ves tan bien sentado ahí?" Eddie said mostly under his breath.

But Steve heard it.

He didn't just hear it, he mostly understood it.

"Sólo estoy usando sudaderas," Steve replied, much easier than he expected to.

Eddie's eyes got impossibly wider, his mouth opening in shock.

"Did you just speak Spanish?" Eddie asked.

"Sí."

"How-" Eddie cleared his throat. "How long have you known Spanish?"

"Not long. Robin's been teaching me," Steve shrugged.

"But like...how long?" Eddie seemed nervous, avoiding eye contact completely.

"If you're worried about things you've been saying, I still don't know enough to figure most of what I can kind of remember out," Steve said.

That was true, too. He barely remembered most of what Eddie had been saying over the last few months, definitely couldn't get the pronunciation right anyway to ask Robin and only some of the words had come up in their lessons.

But what he said today, at least a lot of it, was clear to Steve and that made him feel pretty confident that he'd been reading Eddie's feelings correctly.

"Lo decias en serio?" Steve asked, stuttering a bit with nerves.

"Por supuesto."

"Um. Beso?" Steve knew that wasn't right, but his brain wasn't firing on all cylinders.

"Claro, puedo besarte, cariño."

Steve let out a whimper when Eddie pulled him to his feet, cupped the back of his neck in his hand, and licked into his mouth like he'd been waiting years for this moment.

"You've been learning Spanish for me?" Eddie asked breathlessly when he finally managed to pull away.

"I'm trying. For you and Wayne."

Translations: Eddie estará tan impresionado - Eddie will be so impressed Eso espero - I hope so Dios, cómo te ves tan bien sentado ahí? - God, how do you look so good just sitting there? Sólo estoy usando sudaderas. - I'm just wearing sweats Lo decias en serio? - Did you mean it? Por supuesto. - Of course Beso - Kiss Claro, puedo besarte, cariño. - Sure, I can kiss you, sweetheart

#steddie #steve harrington #eddie munson #stranger things #headcanon #drabble #sorry i do not know other languages #which is probably why i am in such awe of anyone who can speak more than one #AND ESPECIALLY ANYONE WRITING FIC IN THEIR NON-NATIVE LANGUAGE #LIKE HOW

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saturnzskyzz · 7 months

Text

The Almighty Gloinks

·˚ ༘ 𖦆 ꒷₊˚ ꒦꒷꒷꒦ ⑅ ʚ ⤜ ⨳ ࣪• ☼ ⋒ ⚡︎ 𐚱 ⊹˚˖⁺ ⤾·˚ ༘ 𖦆 ꒷₊˚ ꒦꒷꒷꒦ ⑅ ʚ ⤜ ⨳ ࣪•

I'm just going to stop predicting that I will go with what I post because I don't think this is going to be a drabble. :)

eh, more for us TADC fans, am I right?

Literally though, I can't hold in the urge to make a fanfic of TADC any longer. I need to make an actual fanfic of this episode or it's gonna drive me insane. 🥲

Also, for those who don't know, the usage of (~) which is called a Tilde- (pronunciation: [Till-D-Aye] - is to drag out a word. I learned that's what it was for, and now I'm taking advantage of that knew bound knowledge. 🤓📋

·˚ ༘ 𖦆 ꒷₊˚ ꒦꒷꒷꒦ ⑅ ʚ ⤜ ⨳ ࣪• ☼ ⋒ ⚡︎ 𐚱 ⊹˚˖⁺ ⤾·˚ ༘ 𖦆 ꒷₊˚ ꒦꒷꒷꒦ ⑅ ʚ ⤜ ⨳ ࣪•

based on this -> drabble I did but way longer, and probably more humorized. (Disclaimer, my humor SUCKS)

Lee: Jax

Ler: Gloinks

Mentions: Pomni, Ragatha, and Zooble

"Uhm~.. Guys? Didn't Caine make sure that those guys wouldn't come back?" Ragatha pointed at the many different shapes and colors bouncing around the stage.

Pomni, Zooble, and Jax, who were also there to see the scene unfold between many different Gloinks, appeared on the stage in clusters.

Jax then clicked his tounge, and smirked at the array of shapes. "Well, that's a shame. You guys have fun though! I'm going to my dor- HEY! Watch out you pesky little-*censor*" He had stopped within his tracks from the shapes that had prevented him to move any further. About five Gloinks were in the way, and their faces twisted and turned upon hearing the digital cast member curse.. Not that their duty was to punish those who curse within the digital circus, but because they abide to the rules of which the ringmaster had set in place.

"I don't think you should have said that Jax.. You know what had happened to Zooble." Pomni warned, realizing that the Gloinks were getting closer and closer.

"Hey, it's not my fault that these things wanted to be in my way- AH! Get off me!" Jax felt all five of them pounce on him at once, making him fumble to the ground with a loud thud.

"Gah! Do you things even know any sort of decency?! Because this is not it!" Jax struggled underneath the chaos that the Gloinks were causing. They were not in any way bigger in size, but they still had a powerful weight to them that they self awarengly grown to know. So Jax was in a bit of trouble to say the most. Not least, MOST.

"Uhm.. Guys? A little help here?! These things have a ton of weight to them and they're starting to feel uncomfortable on top of me." Jax said with a strained voice. He tried to twist and turn to somehow dislodge the determined little beasts, but it became no use fairly quick. He decided to resign his escape and to just lay there in hopes that his friends, or acquaintances to him, will bud in and help the poor dickhead dude.

"Guys, we should help!" Ragatha chimed in. she started to walk towards Jax until she heard Zooble clear their throat. She assumed that Zooble was getting ready to say something, so she collectively turned around.

"Or~! We stand here and watch to see what happens. Caine said he took care of the Gloinks. And I might have over heard him talk to Kinger about setting a rule for "Queen Gloink" or whatever, that they are of no harm." Zooble said. And apparently they were then holding up a clipboard with makeshift glasses on.

The rest looked at Zooble, and then turned around in unison to take a look at Jax who had a concerning look on his face that read, 'you guys really aren't going to leave me here with these guys, are you?' and then one more look back at Zooble who didn't have the glasses and clipboard anymore. What ever happened to them, I wonder??

"HEY! GIVE THAT BACK!!" Zooble yelled at Bubble, Caine's assistant, floating away from the group with Zooble's things.

Bubble didn't say a single word, they just popped out of existence once they flew up too high.

"Well that was something." Ragatha said confused.

"There goes my only happiness and escape from this digital he-" Zooble slowly approached their gaze to the Gloinks who all looked at zooble. "Heli..helo~..helico..ugh! I give up on these stupid Gloinks." Zooble waved them off, looking away from the shapes who were still on top of Jax.

"Air is kinda needed for my body to be able to be alive~ right now!!" Jax said Breathlessly. When will this day end?? Jax will never know.

"I don't know Jax.. You've been awfully rude to us ever since Pomni became apart of the digital world." Zooble said. They stared at Jax, having one of their hands on their hip.

"Zooble, please. This is the one tihime I'm-! Behehegging you?!.. Whahat the hell?!" Jax looked at where the Gloinks were peacefully chilling on Jax only to find out that they have started to grow bored of just standing on him, so they resulted to shaking their blocky bodies in order for Jax to feel a tingly sensation through out his torso and back.

"Uhm~ Why are they shaking, and why are you laughing? I thought you wanted our help, not to make fun of us for just standing here refusing to help?" Pomni said. She knew what was happening, but was wanting to gain the upper hand for once now that Jax has been getting his long awaited karma.

"Ihihi don't knohohow.. Gehehet them ohoff of mehe! They're behehing weird!" Jax responded, banging his fist on the ground from how unbearable the feeling was getting to him so quickly.

"Eh, it's not like they're harming you, you'll be fine!" Zooble then started to walk away from the scene, assuming that their job of being an annoyance to Jax was enough said than done.

"WAIT! Zohohoble please! These things have dohone enouohoOHOHOGH! AAH! OHOHohoho mihihihihy gohohod, staHAHAhap!" Jax all of a sudden felt another Gloink pop into the mess and started to go for his ears. You could say this was a melt spot.. Unfortunately for him.

"HAHA! your reaction was PRICELESS!" Zooble said stopping in their tracks to wipe a fake tear. They were honestly amused by the scene infront of them. They have been waiting for someone or something to stop Jax from being an asshole all the time. They just wished that they could take a picture of this very moment right about-

*click*

﹏﹏﹏

Everyone turned their heads to where that noise came from. And from everyone's shocked expressions, but a very not surprised audience, they all saw Caine with a big polariod camera in front of his face. The picture he had just took came out of the frame slot veeeeeery slowly.

"Aaaaand, we have a winner! Thanks Jax! This is JUST what I needed for today's show! Everyone is going to love the wall I have of all of you!" Caine said while snatching up the photo to wave around.

"Cahahaine, Ihihi wihill huhuhnt yohohou DOWN ihihif you don't geehet rihihid of that phohohoto right NOHOohohow!!" Jax tried to sound intimidating, but he couldn't with the Gloinks still tickling him.

"Hold on.. You have a picture wall of every single ONE OF US?!" Zooble yelled. They were starting to become annoyed.

"What do you mean a~.. Picture wall?" Pomni chimed in finally.

"Don't tell me you have me all glitched in pain too.." Ragatha said worried.

"Now now kiddos, this picture wall isn't all that bad.. There's only going to be about one thousand artificial intelligent people who get to see it with their very own eyes!" Caine announced. He then stuffed the photo in his pocket, looked at the crew, and then fleed out of the circus tent that had them in this predicament.

Everyone was silent.

"GUHUHUuhuhuy's!"

Well.. All except for Jax, of course.

"PLehehease! Ihihihi Wohohon't be a *censor* fohohor the rehest of THEHEHE DAHAY- AAH! STOHOHOP, IHIHI'Mhm sohoHOHORRY!!" Jax fell right into that one, unfortunately for him. The gloinks started to shake faster than before, causing Jax's laughter to go up an octave.

"Ugh! Oh my god, you guys deal with his obnoxious behavior. I'm going to my room." Zooble said, cleary beckming annoyed by Jax's laughter.

"I wouldn't call it obnoxious.. More so, it's new." Ragatha chimed in, walking up to Jax to try and get a gloink off of him, finally.

"Whahahat doho you mehean by nehehew, dohollfacehe?!" Jax managed to say a nickname, earning an annoyed expression on Ragatha's face.

"I mean that, you know.. We've never heard you let loose and laugh." Ragatha said, yanking a gloink off of Jax's back.

Pomni then walked up to Jax and tried to get a gloink off of him herself now.

"Yeah, I never knew that you were ticklish. I know this is my first week here, but it's endearing to know that the most stoic person can also let loose like this." Pomni decided to join in on the conversation, successfully pulling a gloink off of Jax's side. Only three more to go.

"Ahahand ihi wanted ihit to stahahy like thahat!" Jax argued.

"Well, not everything can work out how people wanted these to go. It's all part of life anyway." Ragatha said, trying to pull off a gloink that was attacking one of his ears.

"Wehell, thihihis is a digihital wohohorld, crazy things ahahare bound toho happen."

"The bunny giving life advise while in this predicament. How surprising." pomni added, taking a gloink off of Jax's other side. She then got up to go for the last gloink that was at Jax's other ear while Ragatha was still trying to get the other one.

"Cahan yohohou speed thihis uhuhup? Thehey are sohoho annoying." Jax complained, Lifting his head up the best that he could and covered up his face from slight embarrassment. Not that he needed to do that anyway, he was already facing the ground.

"Yeah yeah, whatever. They are hard to pull off." Ragatha said, finally getting the gloink off of him.

"Ragatha, I need help with this one." Pomni said. The gloink was pretty tough to dislodge, unfortunately.

"Yeah, I got it!" She walked on the other side of where pomni was, and was about to reach for the gloink until it surprisingly jumped away from the grabby hands and onto Jax's neck. Interesting landing choice, but not so surprising that it started to shake again.

"AAHAhaha! Whahahat thehehe-! Gehehet ihihit ohohoff!!" Jax went slightly red at the sudden touch, and started to scrunch up his shoulders.

"Aha, this one is a trickster gloink like you, Jax! How cute." Ragatha said, finally grabbing the last gloink and taking it off of his neck quite easily this time.

Jax turned over finally, and had still covered his face from the longing embarrassment that still crept at his face. He took long and rewarding breathes.

"Welp, our job here is done, so I'm gonna go to my dorm." Ragatha said, leaving Jax and pomni with the aftermath.

"Wehe are to nehever speak of this toho the two most mehentally stable people, ohokay, Pomni?" Jax said, peaking out of his hands to give her an intimidating glare like she was the one who tickled him to death.

"U-uhm..sure, Jax.." Pomni said, getting up to leave Jax there alone until she pumped into Kinger and Gangle.

"W-w-what did w-we miss?" Gangle said with a confused look.

"Why is Jax on the floor and covering his face?" Kinger gave a confusing look on his own.

"A jester never tells what they see!" Pomni said, running away from them two before Jax saw her with them.

"W-w-well that was s-something.." Gangle said, looking up at Kinger who was still looking at Jax.

He slowly avoided his gaze to look down at gangle.

"AAH-"

·˚ ༘ 𖦆 ꒷₊˚ ꒦꒷꒷꒦ ⑅ ʚ ⤜ ⨳ ࣪• ☼ ⋒ ⚡︎ 𐚱 ⊹˚˖⁺ ⤾·˚ ༘ 𖦆 ꒷₊˚ ꒦꒷꒷꒦ ⑅ ʚ ⤜ ⨳ ࣪•

The ending was rushed but, oh well!

#the amazing digital circus tickle #the amazing digital circus #sfw tickle community #lee!jax #ler!gloinks #saturn fanfics

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linghxr · 1 year

Text

Analyzing Chinese Names: Syllables & Tones

It’s been a while since my last post about Chinese names. In one previous post, I wrote that I wanted to explore tones and syllable structure in Chinese names. And now here we are. I ended up shifting my focus a bit throughout the process, but I’m still excited to be sharing my results.

These questions/ideas guided this post:

Sometimes you don’t know how a name is written because you’ve only heard it or seen a transliteration. Setting aside the written language (Chinese characters), what syllables/sounds are most common?

I have read about naming conventions regarding tones. For example, using a mix of tones (instead of reusing the same tone) gives names a dynamic flow. So how are tones distributed in names?

Buckle up, everyone. This is gonna be a long one.

About the Data

I started with the data from my previous in-depth post about Chinese names. Like before, most names are from contestants on idol shows or members of idol groups. I added more names in this category and also some names of athletes (since for athletes it is also relatively easy to discern gender). In total, there were 4361 names (2340 female, 2021 male). Most names belong to individuals from Mainland China, but there are also names belonging to people from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia, and Singapore. See my past post for more details.

I had to do a lot of work to process the name data for this analysis. I will add some details towards the end of this post for those who are interested. I just want to note here that:

I did some work to account for tone sandhi for yi 一. As a result, you may see this character labeled as 1st, 2nd, or 4th tone.

I also applied tone change rules when there were multiple 3rd tones in a row (but not for surnames as it shouldn’t change there).

I had to correct for duoyinzi 多音字. Most of the time, it’s pretty clear which pronunciation is used, but there are some ambiguous cases.

I use standard Mainland pronunciation, not Taiwanese pronunciation. Characters like 薇 are pronounced differently in these locations.

I’m an imperfect human and probably didn’t catch everything. So keep that in mind.

Given Names (Overall)

First we will examine the overall results for all syllables across all given names to get a nice overview. Then we will dive into single-character given names vs. two-character given names.

Top Given Name Syllables (w/ Tones)

Pictured: Some of the most frequent characters for the top 11 syllables.

List format: Syllable / count Corresponding characters that occurred more than once

Yǔ / 263 宇雨羽语予禹瑀

Xīn / 229 欣鑫馨心昕新歆芯薪

Jiā / 216 佳嘉家加珈

Yì / 201 一艺奕逸亦毅懿翊义易翼忆意译轶熠羿亿薏

Zǐ / 139 子梓紫

Qí / 134 琪琦奇祺麒淇齐棋其岐崎

Wén / 116 文雯闻纹

Jié / 112 杰洁婕捷颉倢

Yù / 102 玉钰煜昱郁裕喻谕毓育誉

Jùn / 99 俊峻珺骏浚竣

Yáng / 99 洋阳扬杨炀旸

Top Given Name Syllables (w/o Tones)

List format: Syllable / count Corresponding characters that occurred more than once

Yu / 419 宇雨玉羽钰语瑜予妤煜禹昱郁俞渝裕于喻瑀谕余娱愚毓育誉

Yi / 356 一怡艺奕仪依逸亦伊毅宜懿翊义祎易翼苡忆意译轶颐乙以熠羿亿倚薏

Xin / 232 欣鑫馨心昕新歆芯薪信

Jia / 217 佳嘉家加珈

Jun / 165 俊君峻钧军珺均骏浚竣

Zi / 157 子梓紫姿兹

Qi / 151 琪琦奇祺绮麒启淇齐棋其岐崎

Hao / 141 豪浩昊皓灏淏濠

Wei / 139 伟玮威维薇蔚微炜唯纬葳为崴巍𬀩苇韦

Xiao / 136 晓小笑筱孝潇篠箫肖

Given Name Syllable Tones

List format: Tone / count

2nd / 2729

1st / 1993

4th / 1885

3rd / 1167

Single-Character Given Names (单名)

There were 948 single-character names in total. That comes out to about 22% of all 4361 names.

Top Single-Character Given Names (w/ Tones)

List format: Syllable / count All corresponding characters

Xīn / 41 鑫欣昕馨新心锌

Yáng / 29 洋扬杨阳旸炀

Yǔ / 20 宇雨禹羽瑀语

Lì / 18 丽立莉俐栎栗

Yì / 18 艺奕逸忆易毅燚羿

Yuè / 18 悦玥越月粤跃

Jié / 17 洁杰倢婕捷颉

Hào / 16 浩昊淏灏

Jìng / 14 静婧靓* 竞靖

Qiàn / 14 倩茜**

*Can be pronounced jìng or liàng. I went with jìng. **Can be pronounced qiàn or xī. I went with qiàn.

Top Single-Character Given Names (w/o Tones)

List format: Syllable / count All corresponding characters

Xin / 41 鑫欣昕馨新心锌

Yu / 31 宇雨钰煜玉瑜禹羽昱渝瑀语

Yang / 29 洋扬杨阳旸炀

Yi / 23 艺奕怡逸一忆易毅燚祎羿

Wei / 22 伟威炜维蔚薇𬀩玮

Hao / 19 浩昊豪淏灏

Jing / 19 静晶婧靓* 璟竞菁靖

Li / 19 丽立莉俐李栎栗

Ying / 19 颖莹影滢赢瀛盈

Yue / 18 悦玥越月粤跃

*Can be pronounced jìng or liàng. I went with jìng.

Single-Character Name Tones

List format: Tone / count

2nd / 308

4th / 264

1st / 253

3rd / 123

Full Name Tone Patterns for Single-Character Given Names

Look at the darker “stripes” for the 2nd tone. The 3rd tone’s low popularity also stood out to me.

List format: Tone of surname, tone of given name / count

2nd, 2nd / 140

2nd, 1st / 127

2nd, 4th / 123

1st, 2nd / 80

1st, 4th / 73

1st, 1st / 68

2nd, 3rd / 52

4th, 2nd / 45

3rd, 2nd / 43

1st, 3rd / 39

3rd, 4th / 37

4th, 4th / 31

3rd, 1st / 29

4th, 1st / 29

4th, 3rd / 17

3rd, 3rd / 15

Two-Character Given Names (双名)

Now for two-character given names. There were 3413 total (about 78%). First I will look at these given names as a whole. Then I will separately examine the 1st syllable and 2nd syllable positions.

I was very interested to see the most common name going by sound and not characters. Living in the US, I often see transliterated Chinese names with no characters in sight. This effectively “merges” names that are distinct in Chinese. All I can do is guess what the characters (and thus tones) are.

Top Two-Character Given Names (w/ Tones)

Pictured: Character combinations that occurred more than once for the top 12 two-character given names.

List format: Given name / count All corresponding character combinations

Jiāxīn / 17 嘉欣佳欣佳薪佳鑫嘉新嘉歆嘉馨

Jiāyí / 12 佳怡嘉怡佳仪嘉仪家仪家怡

Xīnyǔ / 10 心雨新宇心语欣宇欣雨鑫宇馨予

Xīnyuè / 10 馨月心玥昕玥欣悦歆玥馨悦馨玥

Hàorán / 9 浩然皓然

Jùnjié / 9 俊杰俊洁

Chénxī / 8 晨曦晨熙晨晞晨晰晨溪

Jiāqí / 8 佳琦家齐佳琪嘉琪嘉祺嘉齐

Shānshān / 8 珊珊杉杉姗姗

Xīnyí / 8 心怡欣怡心仪鑫怡

Yìwén / 8 一文奕雯艺文译文逸文

Yǔqíng / 8 雨晴语晴宇晴雨情

Top Two-Character Given Names (w/o Tones)

List format: Given name / count All corresponding character combinations

Jiaxin / 17 嘉欣佳欣佳薪佳鑫嘉新嘉歆嘉馨

Jiayi / 16 佳怡嘉怡佳仪佳依加一嘉仪嘉艺嘉谊家仪家怡家毅

Xinyu / 15 心雨欣妤新宇心妤心玉心语欣宇欣雨鑫宇馨予

Junjie / 12 俊杰军杰俊洁钧杰

Xiaoyu / 12 小雨晓玉晓钰小钰晓宇晓瑜晓雨笑语

Yifan / 12 一凡艺凡一帆一幡一璠依凡屹繁怡凡薏帆

Xinyi / 10 心怡欣怡心仪欣佚鑫一鑫怡

Xinyue / 10 馨月心玥昕玥欣悦歆玥馨悦馨玥

Yuqing / 10 雨晴语晴宇庆宇晴钰清雨情

Two-Character Given Name Tones

The grey square is due to the 3rd tone tone change rule.

List format: Tone of given name 1st syllable, tone of given name 2nd syllable / count

4th, 2nd / 560

1st, 2nd / 421

3rd, 2nd / 373

2nd, 2nd / 304

4th, 1st / 282

3rd, 1st / 191

1st, 1st / 183

2nd, 1st / 177

1st, 4th / 169

2nd, 4th / 152

1st, 3rd / 134

2nd, 3rd / 130

4th, 4th / 121

3rd, 4th / 120

4th, 3rd / 96

Full Name Tone Patterns for Two-Character Given Names

Pictured: The top 10 full name tone patterns for two-character given names.

I found these results very interesting. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve read about how using certain sequences of tones creates a pleasant-sounding flow. I had some fun saying aloud names that fit these patterns and judging the dynamic ups-and-downs of how they flow.

List format: Tone of surname, tone of given name 1st syllable, tone of given name 2nd syllable / count

2nd, 4th, 2nd / 273

2nd, 1st, 2nd / 179

2nd, 3rd, 2nd / 179

2nd, 4th, 1st / 138

1st, 4th, 2nd / 135

2nd, 2nd, 2nd / 129

1st, 3rd, 2nd / 98

2nd, 3rd, 1st / 95

2nd, 1st, 4th / 92

1st, 1st, 2nd / 89

These are only the top 10 patterns. See the bottom of the post for the full list.

Two-Character Given Names: First Syllable

Top First Syllables for Two-Character Given Names (w/ Tones)

List format: Syllable / count Corresponding characters that occurred more than once

Jiā / 171 佳嘉家加珈

Yì / 138 一艺奕逸亦翊易义懿翼译亿忆毅羿薏轶

Zǐ / 123 子梓紫

Yǔ / 115 雨宇语羽禹予

Xīn / 95 欣心馨鑫新昕歆薪芯

Xiǎo / 79 晓小筱

Jùn / 69 俊峻珺竣骏

Sī / 63 思斯

Yù / 53 玉钰煜昱郁裕喻毓育誉

Mèng / 49 梦孟

Top First Syllables for Two-Character Given Names (w/o Tones)

List format: Syllable / count Corresponding characters that occurred more than once

Yi / 201 一艺奕怡依逸亦翊伊宜易苡义乙以懿翼译亿忆毅祎羿薏轶

Yu / 188 雨宇语玉钰羽禹煜俞昱郁于渝裕予喻毓瑜育誉

Jia / 171 佳嘉家加珈

Zi / 133 子梓紫姿

Xiao / 118 晓小笑孝潇筱

Xin / 98 欣心馨鑫新昕歆信薪芯

Jun / 84 俊峻君钧军珺竣骏

Jing / 67 静婧景敬靖晶京竞

Zhi / 61 智志芷之治知祉

Si / 60 思斯

First Syllable Tones for Two-Character Given Names

List format: Tone / count

4th / 1059

1st / 907

2nd / 763

3rd / 684

Two-Character Given Names: Second Syllable

Top Second Syllables for Two-Character Given Names (w/ Tones)

List format: Syllable / count Corresponding characters that occurred more than once

Yǔ / 128 宇雨羽予语瑀禹

Qí / 100 琪琦祺奇淇齐棋麒岐

Xīn / 93 欣鑫馨昕心新歆芯

Jié / 83 杰洁婕捷

Wén / 68 文雯

Yí / 63 怡仪宜颐

Lín / 61 霖琳林麟淋

Tíng / 61 婷廷庭

Yuán / 59 源元媛圆园缘原

Yáng / 58 阳洋扬杨炀

Top Second Syllables for Two-Character Given Names (w/o Tones)

List format: Syllable / count Corresponding characters that occurred more than once

Yu / 200 宇雨玉羽瑜妤予钰语昱煜谕郁余瑀禹

Yi / 132 怡仪一毅依艺逸亦伊宜懿颐义奕意祎熠翼轶

Qi / 105 琪琦祺奇淇绮齐棋麒岐

Xin / 93 欣鑫馨昕心新歆芯

Jie / 83 杰洁婕捷

Wei / 75 伟玮薇维威微炜蔚葳崴纬

Hao / 74 豪昊浩皓濠

Jun / 72 君俊钧峻军均珺骏

Wen / 68 文雯

Yuan / 68 源元媛圆远园渊缘原

Second Syllable Tones for Two-Character Given Names

List format: Tone / count

2nd / 1658

1st / 833

4th / 562

3rd / 360

Surnames

Because the majority of the population shares a relatively small number of surnames, I decided to only look at tones.

Surname Tones

List format: Tone / count

2nd / 2047

1st / 1072

3rd / 640

4th / 602

Just take a look at the top 20 surnames in China. Clearly, the 2nd tone is dominating. There’s only one 4th tone surname!

Data Processing

I segmented the names so each character was alone. I just did this in Google Sheets, because that’s where I store the names I’ve gathered. Then I exported the data in CSV format.

I discarded names longer than 3 characters—because these are less common, I decided not to address them to make things easier for myself.

I used the pinyin library for Python to obtain pinyin for each character. I used the numerical format (ie. “ni3”) so that I could easily obtain the syllable w/o tone, the syllable w/ tone, and the tone. I also utilized pandas and numpy. This was done in Google Colabs. I made the unfortunate mistake of not commenting my code, and I wrote it a while ago, so I now I have no idea what is going on (whoops).

Next I dumped this data into a tibble in R for the real analysis.

For as many 多音字 as I could identify, I had to check and potentially fix the pinyin transcription. For example, I had to make sure that 曾 was going to zeng1, not ceng2. Honestly, I’m sure I missed something, but this was so, so tedious. This is also the step where I accounted for the 3rd tone tone change and yi 一 tone change rules.

I used a Python script to convert the toneless pinyin to my own syllable notation system. This was tricky to figure out, but fortunately I was able to use some code I already had from a project I was involved in during college.

I added the syllable info to my giant tibble in R. Because everything was separated into surname, given name 1st character, and given name 2nd character, I also had to create some new columns to combine information to get information for whole given names and full names.

Then it was basically a lot of pipes. Here’s an example: names %>% filter(nchar(names$name) > 2) %>% group_by(given_struc) %>% summarise(count = n()) %>% arrange(desc(count)) %>% view()

Bonus Lists

There were some other things I was curious about but felt didn’t have a place in the main body of this post.

I wanted to see which syllables were represented by the most unique characters in my dataset. If the number of unique characters is high, that’s a sign that I would probably have trouble guessing which character someone’s name contains.

I was also curious about open vs. closed syllables and closed syllables ending in /n/ vs. /ŋ/. For instance, take a pair of names like Yixin and Xinyi or Xinling and Lingxin. These names consist of the same syllables in a different order. I wanted to know which order is more common.

Syllables with the Most Unique Characters (w/ Tones)

List format: Syllable / count All corresponding characters

Yì / 27 一艺奕逸亦毅懿翊义易翼忆意译轶熠羿亿薏佚佾埸屹异弋怿燚翌

Qí / 15 琪琦奇祺麒淇齐棋其岐崎圻祁祈骐

Yú / 14 瑜妤俞渝于余娱愚宇*** 愉榆舆雨*** 鱼

Yù / 14 玉钰煜昱郁裕喻谕毓育誉寓浴芋

Xīn / 12 欣鑫馨心昕新歆芯薪妡忻锌

Yuán / 12 源媛元园圆缘原嫄沅湲芫袁

Líng / 11 玲灵凌翎绫伶羚铃龄苓陵

Xī / 11 希熙曦溪晞惜熹兮浠晰西

Hóng / 9 宏红弘鸿泓虹洪闳汯

Lì / 9 丽莉立力俐利俪栎栗

Zhēn / 9 珍真臻蓁祯桢榛甄贞

***3rd tone character that is pronounced as 2nd tone due to appearing before another 3rd tone character.

Syllables with the Most Unique Characters (w/o Tones)

List format: Syllable / count All corresponding characters

Yi / 45 一怡艺奕仪依逸亦伊毅宜懿翊义祎易翼苡忆意译轶颐乙以熠羿亿倚薏佚佾埸壹夷屹异弋怿沂洢燚翌谊铱

Yu / 33 宇雨玉羽钰语瑜予妤煜禹昱郁俞渝裕于喻瑀谕余娱愚毓育誉寓愉榆浴舆芋鱼

Qi / 20 琪琦奇祺绮麒启淇齐棋其岐崎圻期柒栖祁祈骐

Wei / 20 伟玮威维薇蔚微炜唯纬葳为崴巍𬀩苇韦卫惟未

Yan / 19 妍言燕彦艳岩延谚嫣琰雁晏研颜砚衍严炎焱

Yuan / 16 源媛元远园圆渊缘原嫄愿沅湲芫苑袁

Xi / 16 希熙曦汐溪晞玺喜惜熹兮浠习晰禧西

Xiao / 15 小笑筱孝潇篠箫肖宵效枭校萧霄

Yun / 15 云芸韵昀赟允匀沄筠韫妘澐蕰蕴运

Zhen / 15 振珍真臻蓁祯震镇朕桢榛甄贞轸圳

Two-Character Given Name Syllable Structures

This is the top 10 out of 14 (the bottom 4 were very rare).

List format: Structure of given name 1st syllable, structure of given name 2nd syllable — example / count

Open, open — ex: Jiayi / 821

Open, closed-n — ex: Yijin / 701

Open, closed-ng — ex: Yijing / 468

Closed-n, open — ex: Jinyi / 450

Closed-ng, open — ex: Jingyi / 308

Closed-n, closed-n — ex: Jinyan / 206

Closed-ng, closed-n — ex: Jingyan / 157

Closed-n, closed-ng — ex: Jinyang / 141

Closed-ng, closed-ng — ex: Jingyang / 139

Open, closed-er — ex: Xue'er / 14

Full Name Syllable Structures for Two-Character Given Names

This is the top 29 out of 36 (the bottom 7 were very rare).

List format: Structure of surname syllable, structure of given name 1st syllable, structure of given name 2nd syllable — example / count

Open, open, open— ex: Li Jiayi / 370

Open, open, closed-n— ex: Li Yijin / 336

Closed-ng, open, open— ex: Wang Jiayi / 273

Open, open, closed-ng— ex: Li Yijing / 228

Open, closed-n, open— ex: Li Jinyi / 225

Closed-ng, open, closed-n— ex: Wang Yijin / 223

Closed-n, open, open— ex: Chen Jiayi / 178

Closed-ng, closed-n, open— ex: Wang Jinyi / 165

Open, closed-ng, open— ex: Li Jingyi / 151

Closed-ng, open, closed-ng— ex: Wang Yijing / 146

Closed-n, open, closed-n— ex: Chen Yijin / 142

Open, closed-n, closed-n— ex: Li Jinyan / 104

Closed-ng, closed-ng, open— ex: Wang Jingyi / 97

Closed-n, open, closed-ng— ex: Chen Yijing / 94

Open, closed-ng, closed-n— ex: Li Jingyan / 86

Open, closed-ng, closed-ng— ex: Li Jingyang / 75

Open, closed-n, closed-ng— ex: Li Jinyang / 66

Closed-ng, closed-n, closed-n— ex: Wang Jinyan / 62

Closed-n, closed-n, open— ex: Chen Jinyi / 60

Closed-n, closed-ng, open— ex: Chen Jingyi / 60

Closed-ng, closed-n, closed-ng�� ex: Wang Jinyang / 45

Closed-ng, closed-ng, closed-ng— ex: Wang Jingyang / 45

Closed-ng, closed-ng, closed-n— ex: Wang Jingyan / 43

Closed-n, closed-n, closed-n— ex: Chen Jinyan / 40

Closed-n, closed-n, closed-ng— ex: Chen Jinyang / 30

Closed-n, closed-ng, closed-n— ex: Chen Jingyan / 28

Closed-n, closed-ng, closed-ng— ex: Chen Jingyang / 19

Open, open, closed-er— ex: Li Xue'er / 8

Closed-ng, open, closed-er— ex: Wang Xue'er / 4

Extended List(s)

Full Name Tone Patterns for Two-Character Given Names

2nd, 4th, 2nd / 273

2nd, 1st, 2nd / 179

2nd, 3rd, 2nd / 179

2nd, 4th, 1st / 138

1st, 4th, 2nd / 135

2nd, 2nd, 2nd / 129

1st, 3rd, 2nd / 98

2nd, 3rd, 1st / 95

2nd, 1st, 4th / 92

1st, 1st, 2nd / 89

2nd, 1st, 1st / 88

2nd, 2nd, 1st / 84

3rd, 1st, 2nd / 83

3rd, 4th, 2nd / 81

1st, 2nd, 2nd / 73

4th, 4th, 2nd / 71

4th, 1st, 2nd / 70

1st, 4th, 1st / 69

2nd, 3rd, 4th / 68

2nd, 2nd, 3rd / 64

2nd, 1st, 3rd / 59

3rd, 2nd, 2nd / 59

2nd, 2nd, 4th / 56

4th, 3rd, 2nd / 56

2nd, 4th, 4th / 54

2nd, 4th, 3rd / 47

1st, 2nd, 4th / 43

4th, 2nd, 2nd / 43

1st, 1st, 3rd / 42

4th, 4th, 1st / 42

1st, 3rd, 1st / 41

3rd, 3rd, 2nd / 40

1st, 1st, 1st / 35

1st, 2nd, 1st / 35

1st, 2nd, 3rd / 35

1st, 1st, 4th / 34

4th, 1st, 1st / 34

3rd, 4th, 1st / 33

1st, 4th, 4th / 31

3rd, 2nd, 1st / 30

1st, 3rd, 4th / 29

4th, 2nd, 1st / 28

4th, 3rd, 1st / 28

3rd, 2nd, 4th / 27

3rd, 3rd, 1st / 27

3rd, 1st, 1st / 26

4th, 2nd, 4th / 26

1st, 4th, 3rd / 23

3rd, 1st, 4th / 23

3rd, 2nd, 3rd / 21

3rd, 4th, 4th / 20

4th, 1st, 4th / 20

4th, 1st, 3rd / 19

3rd, 4th, 3rd / 18

4th, 4th, 4th / 16

3rd, 1st, 3rd / 14

3rd, 3rd, 4th / 14

4th, 2nd, 3rd / 10

4th, 3rd, 4th / 9

4th, 4th, 3rd / 8

If you made it to the end, I am seriously impressed by your dedication. Thanks for checking out my nerdy ramblings about Chinese names! Don’t forget to check out my past posts on this topic for more. I hope they will help demystify Chinese names and make learning about Chinese names less intimidating.

A Closer Look at Chinese Names

Reading Chinese Names: Female Names

Reading Chinese Names: Male Names

326 notes · View notes

herrscherofmagic · 5 months

Text

Maybe it's just me, but the parallels between Dr. MEI and Ruan Mei are getting to be quite concerning at this point...

so I decided to write up an essay talking about Dr. MEI and making some comparisons between her and Dr. MEI!

There are some spoilers for the new Myriad Celestia trailer featuring Ruan Mei, as well as some spoilers for some basic HI3rd Previous Era backstory, and especially spoilers for Chapter 31 EX of HI3rd.

TL;DR:

Dr. MEI and Ruan Mei both have similar origins in their interest for biology and understanding life, but it also seems that just like Dr. MEI, Ruan Mei seem to have shifted her interest towards understanding fundamental principles of the universe. In that sense, the two of them are both geniuses whose ambitions seem to include challenging the very idea of the "divine" itself.

...

Life is so colorful, but... it has nothing to do with me.

-Ruan Mei, Myriad Celestia trailer "Transcendent Ruan Tunes, Blushing Mei Blooms"

First off, I just want to be clear that I'm not going to be talking about whether or not Ruan Mei is a "Dr. MEI expy" or anything like that. I'm not trying to equate the two, but talk about their thematic/story parallels, because even if they were from different franchises, or Ruan Mei's name was totally different (heck even if her name was "John Smith" or something like that), I'd still make this post.

With that aside, there's the obvious similarity in that both are scientists, in particular both are associated with biology to an extent. The myriad trailer shows Ruan Mei being interested in biology when she was younger, and Dr. MEI also started off studying genetics and medicine.

But what interests me is that it seems like Ruan Mei is going down a similar path that Dr. MEI did, where she began curious about life and the cosmos but eventually grew to have different ambitions... including ambitions of what amounts to essentially challenging the divine.

There will be some Honkai Impact 3rd spoilers, including spoilers on the topic of Project Stigma, but I won't discuss specific events as they relate to the protagonists nor will I be covering any major story beats. Most of this will be backstory stuff, with there only being one particular spoiler towards the end regarding the true nature of Project Stigma. So consider this a blanket "spoiler warning" for the whole post, because a lot of the stuff I'll describe isn't so much specific moments in the story nor plot twists, but a lot of general background that can't really be easily blocked off into sections of spoiler-tagged content.

Slightly longer TL;DR:

Dr. MEI's character is that she's basically the Previous Era's version of the Current Era's "Raiden Mei". Similar appearance, and the name is a bit similar as well although there is a difference in the Chinese pronunciation, with Mei being "Yayi" (Chinese reading of her Japanese name, Mei) while Dr. MEI is pronounced just as "Mei". That's why MEI is spelled with all-caps in the English localization, since the difference is obvious in both pronunciation and text in Chinese but completely nonexistent in English.

Dr. MEI was a scientist and became involved with a lot of incredibly important projects in the organization Fire MOTH, but while most people pretty much adored her... she was also a very questionable figure which easily could've been one of Humanity's greatest threats if it weren't for the more pressing threat of Honkai.

The biggest parallels I see between her and Ruan Mei are the way that both of them seem to have their roots in biology, but just as the Myriad Celestia trailer hints at Ruan Mei having bigger ambitions, so too did Dr. MEI move on from a focus on biology and genetics, expanding her research to cover phenomena in physics but especially research on Honkai.

In particular, while the Myriad Celestia trailer hints that Ruan Mei may wish to become an Aeon, Dr. MEI's most ambitious project had the goal of uniting all of humanity into a singular dream, a process that would effectively destroy any sense of individuality and turn the collective human civilization of Earth into a being of pure Imaginary/Honkai energy and thought. Whilst this entity might not have been quite as powerful or universal in scale as an Aeon, relative to the scope of Dr. MEI's research (Dr. MEI being isolated to Earth, vs. Ruan Mei who can travel between worlds courtesy of the Star Rail) I think it's a fair comparison with Ruan Mei's apparent goal. If Dr. MEI were in Ruan Mei's place, I think it's very plausible she'd continue to walk down the same path. This doesn't mean that Ruan Mei will do everything that Dr. MEI did, far from it; but I do imagine there are going to be some serious parallels in what they seek to achieve and the extent to which they're willing to do questionable things to achieve it.

Now that the 4-paragraph TL;DR is done, it's time for the rest of the post; because anyone who's read one of my Honkai/Genshin essays before should know by now that I'm very much a "0 or 100" writer with no inbetween, and this is definitely the latter, lol

Also apologies for the various long texts I'm citing here; unfortunately we don't have a pretty animation with cool music to give us an overview of Dr. MEI, so I'm gonna have to go the old-school route of poring over text-based archive entries and manga pages, since that's most of what we have >.>

My goal is to provide background on Dr. MEI, as well as her relation to Dr. Mobius. The two of them are very alike and yet very different in important ways, and I think the parallels between those two as well as the potential parallels between Dr. MEI and Ruan Mei can tell us a lot about what Ruan Mei could be capable of, and just how far her ambitions may stretch. After all the background on those two HI3rd doctors, I'll describe their relation to "Project Stigma", which should serve as a good transition to talking about Ruan Mei's apparent goal of "becoming an Aeon", or something along those lines.

Kevin and MEI

MEI was a human just like anyone else; she went to high school, she was a smart student, had some friends, etc. She was particularly passionate about science, often talking about the stars or physics, though biology was the interest that she seemed to follow most closely. In particular there was a scientist by the name of Dr. Mobius who she idolized, and was fortunate enough to meet at a convention.

Dr. Mobius was a leading geneticist who was famous for various groundbreaking discoveries, so naturally MEI was shocked when Mobius met her and showed interest in her, even having read one of MEI's papers. Some time after their brief and curious exchange, MEI would be invited to become part of an organization by the name of Fire MOTH, and it was at this time when she discovered the true nature of Dr. Mobius' work, as well as the existence of Honkai.

Dr. Mobius was famous for her academic research on the global stage, but within the organization of Fire MOTH she was rather infamous. She had seemingly no boundaries and she was often perceived as being unethical or immoral. Mobius was far from sociable, and despite her important contributions to Fire MOTH there were certainly many people who would prefer if they never had to meet her. And of course, she was no stranger to disciplinary notices and threats from the higher-ups. Someone too valuable to dispose of, but too "dangerous" to leave to her own devices. It was this Dr. Mobius that took in MEI and worked as her superior.

One of Dr. Mobius' most notable projects was Project Stigma. The very first version of Project Stigma was initiated by her, and MEI was chosen as one of her assistants. The goal of the Project was to experiment with "stigmata", genetic modifications to humans which can grant them the power to wield Honkai energy. But if a person's body is unable to control that power, they become entirely corrupted and lose their sanity (so in comparison with HSR, kinda like being marastruck, but as a result of an experiment instead of mara). As you can imagine, this didn't exactly help Dr. Mobius' image.

At first it seems that Dr. Mobius is the suspicious one here. Mobius is cunning and deceptive, while MEI is a rather kind and timid person, so while people would fear Mobius most weren't afraid of MEI at all. But Mobius herself became suspicious of MEI, noticing things about MEI that others would look past; like MEI's focus on her work and seeming impartiality towards the condition of the test subject in the above excerpt. This wouldn't be the only time we see this sort of suspicion as well, with Mobius confronting Kevin about MEI at another time:

It's about time you drop the good guy act, Kevin. I'm well aware that I've crossed the line. But what about your dear MEI? Is she any different from me? Oh, there's a difference. She's far crueler and colder than me - because she only makes rational choices. ... Pure rationality... is the real monster. You know that, don't you?

To give an example of why someone like Mobius would be suspicious of Dr. MEI, there's an excerpt of a conversation I'd like to share. The same MEI was once an assistant to Dr. Mobius would eventually rise to become one of the leading authorities of Fire MOTH, and this was not by chance, as this conversation between "X" (left unnamed to avoid spoilers) and Sakura indicates:

X: If I remember correctly, you crossed paths with the MOTHs when you were on a mission to assassinate Dr. MEI. Sakura: Yes. I wasn't holding out on it - you should be able to tell I'm no good at figuring out internal power struggles. Neither was Dr. MEI. She was awake to the tragic coming of Honkai, but she was a scientist. X: So... she wanted to pay them back in the same way with your help? Sakura: No. Dr. MEI was an unmatched genius... she's never fought that kind of battle, yet she was thinking far ahead of others. Her goal was to use me to expand her internal influence. X: I know this is usually done by force, but if she's all alone... Sakura: She had more helpers, of course. My first mission was to rebuild the covert forces. She wanted the darkest powers of the MOTHs for her own. ...To rebuild through destruction. I was officially invited after completing this mission.

This is the part where spoilers begin; the following two dialogues are from Chapter 31 EX of HI3rd.

There's a lot more I could say about Dr. MEI, but for the sake of whatever brevity is left to achieve, I'd like to go back to talking about Project Stigma. I emphasize this not just because of its importance in the story but also how inextricably linked it is with Dr. MEI. Though it was Mobius who first proposed it, Dr. MEI is the one who transformed it into something incredibly complex and world-changing beyond even what Mobius had envisioned for it:

Mobius: Fine, bickering is a waste of time. It's rare for us to get together. So this is a good time to discuss this Project Stigma that's been revised fifteen times. Seriously, MEI... ...Which side are you on? "Vill-V": Huh? Isn't she standing next to me? Mobius: Vill-V. "Vill-V": Come on, that was a joke! I know your question is serious- -That's why we need to ease up on it more than ever! ... MEI: Mobius, I only stand with civilization. Mobius: Hmph, a cliché to shut those old farts up? I'd hate to stress something as stupid as "I'm your senior"... But now that we're touching this topic... Dr. MEI, you're obliged to explain what you want to achieve with this plan. MEI: ...I see. In your opinion, I'm obsessed with Project Stigma. Mobius: Listen to yourself! You've forced me to revise this plan fifteen times! Fifteen times! MEI: As the solution with the highest success rate, it deserves to be taken seriously. We can never have too many entry points in the future, either. Mobius: Oh, really? That popular Project Ember hasn't even been written into a one-page plan. MEI: You know the attributes of that plan dictate that we implement it more specially. Mobius: Perhaps. But how can I not suspect that the other projects are only a foil to Project Stigma when they are treated so differently? "Vill-V": Um. There's one thing I don't understand. Even if that's true... isn't it you who proposed Project Stigma, Mobius? Mobius: I didn't imagine someone would see it as our only hope. MEI: It does sound ridiculous to you. I completely understand that. After all, there are many ways to redefine humanity. But Dr. Mobius... Humanity is only the cornerstone of civilization. I don't think you'll deny that humans are essentially more intelligent survival machines. We aren't fundamentally different from plants, animals, or microbes. Mobius: Heh. To be more precise, our mortal bodies are but vessels that our genes built for ourselves. So what? Whether its genetics or samsara, everyone has the potential to defy the Creator. Civilization? Compared to the miracles created by specific humans, is that thing even important? "Vill-V": But objectively speaking... the vast majority of humans can realize their potential. It'd be arrogant to measure all humans by a special case such as yourself, Dr. Mobius... MEI: Dr. Mobius. As members of the MOTHs, you and I are ultimately responsible for the whole of civilization. In that sense, compared to the life of an individual, the truth brought forth by life is a more essential existence. "Vill-V": In other words... Vill-V's talent is more important than Vill-V's identity? Ah. You can say that. Mobius: That's you. I don't plan on making another Mobius to replace myself. MEI: ...That's not important. Think about the relationship between children and parents, Dr. Mobius. Regardless of whether the inner worlds of two generations collide, human civilization is continued by the next generation. Regardless of whether their parents like it.

So, what did this "Project Stigma" transform into? The short answer would be that it basically became a Hoyoverse version of NGE's Human Instrumentality Project. The complete unification of all souls within humanity, creating a new form of existence far beyond what civilization can accomplish in the physical realm alone.

On the Imaginary Tree, worlds are created from Imaginary energy, and all life emerges from these worlds. Different beings are capable of manipulating Imaginary energy in different ways, with the smallest example being the day-to-day interactions of humans with the physical world, a step up being the Pathstriders which gain traits or power by being aligned with a Path, while the most powerful beings would be Emanators and Aeons which can use vast amounts of power to cause change in the physical world. By unifying all the "dreams" of the people on a planet, this would effectively create an entirely new world that exists within Imaginary Space but which is not bound to a physical location.

If you gather all the dreams of humans, you'll get a giant resembling a planet. A desert sage named it Adam Ruhani- which means Spiritual Adam. Adam Ruhani is one of the gods, but it's extremely far away from the others... That distance is what mortals call time. It's the late eternity, and a rift that can't be crossed with logic. It can't die, think humanly, nor reproduce... It simply exists forever as the ladder leading to divine realm. ...That's the real aim of Project Stigma. Be it gory or psychedelic, physical or spiritual- they're only means, not ends. The plan is essentially a chain that ties people who can't help themselves together. We can let them go with the flow, or help them within our power. For them, joining this dream is being helped- in their dreams, they are Adams, they are gods. The real world will lose its meaning for them, while the eternal dream will become their only reality. They no longer think with time... Their dreams will be connected, which will create a true miracle that transcends finality.

This is obviously a TREMENDOUS leap from where Project Stigma began when Dr. Mobius first started experimenting with stigmata, and this is why I wanted to give the whole story about Dr. MEI's origins. Again, this is "only" on the scale of a single world. Dr. MEI was an unparalleled genius of her time, and her studies across genetics and physics allowed for the creation of what was essentially a plan to rewrite the very existence of humanity into something which can forever sustain civilization in a world threatened by the existence of Honkai.

This is why these parallels with Ruan Mei have me worried. I don't necessarily suspect that Ruan Mei will necessarily be evil, nor do I think she is going to somehow turn the entire population of the Imaginary Tree into sentient orange juice. But there are a lot of parallels between the Ruan Mei and Dr. MEI, and if Ruan Mei ends up even being remotely like Dr. MEI, that could make her a very dangerous person.

They both seem to have had a strong background in genetics and biology, with that being a major focus in Ruan Mei's design and in the Myriad Celestia trailer. But while a lot of people talk about Ruan Mei being a biologist, the trailer also hints that she has further ambitions- possibly at becoming an Aeon. It seems that Ruan Mei is moving beyond what one would achieve staying within the realm of Biology, and just like Dr. MEI, she seems to be focused on higher powers.

I think we're far from being able to determine what Ruan Mei's exact goal is so far, since "becoming an Aeon" is a pretty vague statement, but it still worries me greatly. The thought of Ruan Mei somehow becoming an Aeon isn't concerning by itself, but rather what actions she might take to achieve that goal.

I'm concerned about what the collateral damage would be, and to what extent she is willing to consider others a part of her "experiments" regardless of whether they want to participate or not. Especially because Dr. MEI was limited to what she could accomplish on Earth, while Ruan Mei appears to have access to far more resources and far more opportunities for research. As someone from the Luofu (afaik) she should also have a longer lifespan. Ruan Mei is in a good position to far exceed what Dr. MEI could accomplish... for better or for worse.

I would love to say more on this topic, but obviously we'll learn more about Ruan Mei once she releases, and throughout the story as it goes on. It took years for the full scale of Dr. MEI's plans to be revealed in HI3rd, and I don't doubt the same will be true for Ruan Mei. Perhaps Ruan Mei's ambitions will align neatly with those of the Astral Express and Stellaron Hunters, or perhaps they may become the greatest threat to sentient life across countless worlds, second only to even greater powers like Nanook. We might be forced to put an end to her experiments, or perhaps we might end up aiding her further- willingly or not.

Whatever happens, Ruan Mei is Ruan Mei and Dr. MEI is Dr. MEI. These are two different individuals of different origins and who live different lives, and the story of Ruan Mei is sure to diverge greatly from the story of Dr. MEI. The parallels between them are equally fascinating and worrying to me, but it just makes me look forward even more to Ruan Mei's role in the story.

At first I was rather dismissive of Ruan Mei, especially because I haven't even started the Swarm Disaster stuff yet. I'm sure there are details I'm missing from there, and while that usually would make me hesitant to write such a long post about her, the Myriad Celestia trailer seems clear enough with its foreshadowing (I say now, only to be proven wrong later...) that I wanted to write this up anyways. I'm definitely looking forward to Ruan Mei now, and I would love to revisit this comparison between the two later on as we learn more about her!

#honkai star rail #ruan mei #honkai impact 3rd #Dr. MEI #honkai 3rd #hi3rd #honkai #long post #honkai star rail theory #hsr Mei #hsr ruan mei #this took more than 4 hours to write so please don't flop xd

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toobluebirdie · 5 months

Text

The Apparition Creature Runes

This post is to organize the thought process the Eden’s Rest discord server went through trying to figure out what the runes in the Apparition drawing really mean.

I hope my explanation is clear enough to follow!

We went from casually wondering what the runes meant to realizing they spelled nothing, to trying to flip them upside down and realizing they still spelled nothing, to finding a tik tok that led down a new rabbit hole entirely.

The person in this tik tok talks about an article they found about medieval language. SMCEN was written as smœn (which is also written as smoen).

Here’s the link to the article they were talking about in the tik tok: https://www.jstor.org/stable/43628078 You can only access the article if you have a subscription to jstor, whether through your school or otherwise, but the sample page here has the passage the tik tok is talking about. Trying to figure out the literary jargon hurt my head. It talks about “mamorian” and “mamra” (which come from the same root word) meaning “to be deep in thought about something” or “sleep.” Trying to clear up what the article was saying about “smoen” after that and connect it all together was hard but here’s what i got:

It seems to say that smœn is linked to the word smean, which is a variation of the Old English word smeagan.

From the Wikipedia entry for smeagan ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/smeagan#Old_English ):

Verb

smēaġan

consider, think about

meditate

examine, scrutinize, question

These definitions line up with the definition assigned to mamorian. I hope you can follow how my brain made this leap, but this made me feel confident enough to say the jstor article is saying both mamra and smoen mean sleep or at least something similar to it.

So we have our translation of SMCEN:

SLEEP

The rest is far less confusing. I think.

Now that I knew I should use Smoen as a search term and that it was a medieval word, google helped me a lot more.

I found this book about the Magical Treatise of Solomon:

issuu

You can search the book for the word “smoen” and that’s how I found a lot more I could use to find answers.

I found some alternate versions of smoen that helped with searching: Skonin and Skoen

I found that Smoen was a demon linked to the angel Patiel (or Pathiel)

This book also has a whole page of runes, some of which are similar to the Sundowning runes. It’s page 323 of the book if you want to see.

This book has a lot to it, but for the purposes of this rune translation attempt, I moved on.

The book mentioned lots of Greek words and names so I applied that to my search for the meanings of the other runes.

In Greek and Latin the letter j did not exist. “I” was used in place of “J.” So I switched the j in the remaining runes to an i. (AJR -> AIR)

I searched for info on ESIO maybe being a medieval latin word and I found this source:

(which is from the Dictionary of Medieval Latin from Celtic Sources)

It said this:

estio --> esio

esto (adv.)

so i searched for Esto and found this: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/esto

And that said…

Etymology 1

Form of the verb edō (“I eat”).

Pronunciation

(Classical) IPA: /ˈeːs.toː/, [ˈeːs̠t̪oː]

(modern Italianate Ecclesiastical) IPA: /ˈes.to/, [ˈɛst̪o]

Verb

ēstō

second/third-person singular future active imperative of edō

So I think ESIO could mean EAT.

At this point my brain was leaking out of my ears so I gave up thinking. I decided AIR just meant AIR.

Air = Breathe???

And that’s the story of how the discord chat decided it said...

EAT BREATHE SLEEP

The end?

Eden's Rest friends involved in the making of this monster: @ccsven and @r-e-dax-t-e-d

Here’s @ccsven's drawing where we started trying to figure out wtf that said. And oh man, did we. Did we? I still don’t know.

#sleep token #sleep token runes #the apparition #sleep token lore #medieval latin? for some reason?#following these brain worms was an out of body experience #finally...i can rest #eep token

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