#because I talk about them a bit

[qsmpbutwithsignlanguage]

I don't know if now is exactly the right time for this, considering everything that is going on, but I've had this post in the drafts for a while, so idk. A collection of random things I've noticed after a year of the QSMP in action (though I've only been involved in the fandom since late October).

Genuinely something fairly long, and I don't want to clog up anyone's feed with this mess of a post, so >

(colors don't mean anything in particular, I just needed to break up the text for my own attention span's sake)

Regardless of the fact that the translation feature exists, QSMP members always seem to make an effort to learn a few words in the language of other members. I frequented Tubbo's streams a lot, and I can remember him looking up Korean greetings back when Acau was just joining the server. Tina, while not fluent in the language, made an effort to converse with the newer Korean members in Korean on multiple occasions, and succeeded in that regard. BadBoyHalo and Foolish both went above and beyond to try to learn bits and pieces of the other languages on the server; Cellbit has been absolutely insane in picking up the languages present on the server, and even Quackity has worked on learning Portuguese behind the scenes with Mike. They aren't the only ones either, not by a long shot, though they were some of the few I watched happening in real time. The first days of different members joining the server were filled with exchanges of words and slang, and it was always incredible to watch. I could go onto the streams of Quackity or Tubbo or Tina when the new Korean members were joining, or Hugo, and walk away with a handful of new swears and slang under my belt. I find it incredible that everyone works so hard to communicate with each other beyond only the translation feature.

The impact of the QSMP was not on the permanent members of the server alone. While this is only one example of a great amount, I've been able to watch Aimsey's intermittent streams where they work on learning Brazilian Portuguese on Duolingo, their most recent only around three weeks ago. They joined Purgatory 2 months ago, but they made lasting friends with the Brazilian members of their team, and they still work on learning the language. They still talk about taking a trip down to Brazil to meet up with their fellow Purgatory 2 teammates, alongside Tubbo. I find that to be quite sweet, if I'm being frank.

The fandom has also worked across that language barrier. QSMP Language Day was one example of this (rip, such great idea, I had so much fun but oh my goodness did that day end terribly), though I have to give a shocking amount of credit to QSMP Twitter. It's always awesome to see the posts that trickle through in different languages, just seeing people discuss different headcanons and theories that they have in different languages, like it's nothing. The translation feature has come in clutch many, many times, but a lot of people have been working to genuinely learn a language since the server started. To those of you reaching your 1 year streak on Duolingo this week, I commend you. I just reached my 60 day one, and while it's not a lot compared to what some people have, it's a pretty big deal for me. I've seen Twitch chats filled with French, German, English, Spanish, Portuguese, and Korean. In one stream I could count spotting seven separate languages being spoken in the span of roughly seven minutes (not including French, idk where you guys went but I just did not spot you once): English, Spanish, Korean, Portuguese, German, Pashto, and Russian. QSMP Language Day was amazing, even if it was cut short by news about the admins, and it's just been really cool to see people communicating in their own respective first languages.

Translation in general. I've seen an uptick of translated closed captioning in videos created by different QSMP members, and while it isn't a lot, it's incredible to see when it does occur. I have to give a shout out to both Quackity and Baghera, for their translated closed captioning. Even if it's only a few videos, it's epic to see. I also find it very interesting that the only Offline TV video I've seen with closed captioning in more than one language was the one that Quackity was in, with Spanish subtitles. It shows that the creators care enough to add the captioning, and I think that's pretty awesome. It's also nice because often adding captions in another language forces you to add captions in the language you're primarily speaking throughout the video, which can help people who need context beyond the often messy auto-generated closed captions.

Fanfiction! Fanart! The most kudosed fanfiction on AO3 in Portuguese of any type is a GuapoDuo fanfic! Almost half of the top twenty most kudosed fanfictions in Portuguese on AO3 are QSMP. I talk about it a bit more in depth here, but it's still incredible to see just how dedicated this community is. I've been involved in multiple fic-gifting events and I've seen some genuinely incredible works come out of this fandom. Heck, I've created a lot of things for the QSMP that I'm incredibly proud of. I've seen some of the most incredible creative expression ever come out of this fandom. The tiniest accounts on YouTube posting full-length, colored animatics complete with the smallest of details (shout out to Artydrawsthings on YouTube for I GOT LOVE, that was absolutely incredible), fanfic authors writing massive A.U.s that explore every character in depth, and livebloggers that will analyze each and every movement to gush over it all. The fandom that the QSMP has built has been incredible, and it's been amazing to see it grow.

Just in general, the sense of community, and overall joy the QSMP has created. You can tell that this a passion project, created by someone who genuinely cared about and believed that what they were doing was something they wanted to be doing, and managed by people who believed that the project was doing great things. I think this is what made the QSMP flourish. It was built off people who were happy on the server, and it truly accomplished what it set out to accomplish: uniting communities. I could have said this two weeks ago, three, a month, five months, half a year; it would have held true nonetheless. However, for the QSMP's first anniversary, I think it's fitting to give it this achievement.

The QSMP without a doubt has its gaping flaws. That isn't something we can ignore, and it isn't something that we should try to. However, to ignore everything that this server has done in the year it has existed would be a crime in my eyes. I'm glad to have been a part of this fandom, and maybe I can't speak Portuguese or Spanish or German and I won't ever be able to French or Korean or whatever languages the QSMP will go on to add (sorry French, rip), but I know a lot more than I did when I started, and I think that the server has done a lot of good in the roughly year it has existed.

So thank you, to the fandom, to the server, and to everyone who made this happen, from the fanartists and the egg admins to Quackity at the top of it all. It's been a great ride, and I hope that it'll be able to continue.

#qsmp #happy birthday qsmp #sorta #i can't remember its exact birthday lol #quackity #baghera jones #badboyhalo #cellbit #because I talk about them a bit #I don't really know what to tag this with to be honest #y'all have been great #and it's been awesome to see how far this fandom has come since I got involved in it #shout out to bbh and yd who have been absolute gems #it's been so cool watching everyone's language skills grow both in the server and outside of it #that's really all

[ewwww-what]

Nobody is as excited about the preview as I am. I have paragraphs.

#very bad doodle I just need to get this out there #don’t look at it too hard I’m begging #someone please talk to me about the blood rush breakup before the world explodes #it is not that serious but I will do anything for twenty seconds of them arguing #the episode hasn’t come out but I am shaking #every time they talk I become a little more evil and fucked up #genuinely though aside from the silliness of the conversation being about sports I have some very strong feelings about the little bits we- #-got to see in the preview #like I will inevitably talk about it but just because I know people are gonna beat me to it I just want to express how excited I am #fantasy high #d20 #d20 fantasy high #dimension 20 #gorgug thistlespring #fabian seacaster #thistlecaster #<- yeah fuck it why not #for my one mutual who likes them #this is for you and you only #fhjy spoilers #my art

[bizarrelittlemew]

calling it right now that season 3 starts like this

#so confused about people saying the season finale feels like the end because to me it didn't at all #there's like 5-10 issues immediately set up for another season #they're in a happy place at this point because they've both realized their love is bigger than anything else #and makes it worth working on their problems together #the problems are still very much there #both of them have deep self esteem/self loathing issues that haven't been resolved in the week since ed woke up #ed doesn't know about stede's trauma #they haven't talked through anything #and they'll be shit at starting/running an inn lmao it's not gonna go well #and those are just some of the internal issues #then there's prince ricky and all the authorities that would very much like to get their hands on both blackbeard and stede bonnet #because stede just full-on kept using his government name after faking his death. nice one #the crew are not “gone” they're more like off to college for a bit but will probably run into trouble immediately #again because while they escaped to the ship they didn't eliminate the threat (the british empire) #it's not a forever goodbye #ok this got super long already anyway i have a whole fic marinading in my brain until i've finished these 4 wips i'm in the middle of ✌️ #hope we get a renewal soon because i want to see the rest of their story!! #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd s2 #ofmd #our flag means death

[ruporas]

can’t talk about it

[ID: Black and white comic of Vash and Wolfwood from Trigun Maximum. The comic starts with the sounds "thud, thud, click". Vash, mid-action of peeling an apple, turns to the sound, noticing who it was that entered, and says, "Oh, Wolfwood, you're back." He resumes back to his apple in the next panel as he speaks, "Where'd you go? You snuck out of bed quickly this morning..." Wolfwood's hand then enters the panel, hovering over Vash's cheek and Vash looks up as Wolfwood asks, "Can I?" Vash responds, "Not going to talk about it?" while using a hand to gently hold Wolfwood's hovering hand and presses a kiss to his inner palm.

Vash then gets up fully, setting down the knife down on the table and the apple onto a plate, He leans into Wolfwood as Wolfwood explains, "Had to meet someone. Nothing interesting to talk about." Vash kisses Wolfwood's left cheek and a hand moves to cup his other cheek while muttering, "You're being vague." Wolfwood says neutrally, "If yer really that curious, keep askin'. We  can talk about that instead of doing this." Vash leans back and responds, "Let's talk after, since... You look so tired."

The panel pans to a close up of Wolfwood's downcast eyes, bags heavy underneath his eyes. He doesn't allow Vash to sit in that moment for long though, then saying, "Yer not helping, Spikey. Being all slow with it... I could fall asleep right now." He moves his hand to start unclasping Vash's coat, starting from his collar. Vash with red cheeks, responds briskly, "Oh, shut up. I'm worried about you. I can't be worried?"

The final shot shows Wolfwood's back to the viewer while Vash's softened expression can be seen as he holds gently onto the side of Wolfwood's face and a hand firm on his waist. Wolfwood responds, "I'm fine, seriously," pausing for a moment before continuing, "Is it okay to still..?" Vash responds, "Yeah, it's okay."

The next image is a shot from later that night after the previous comic. Vash and Wolfwood are now in bed, half naked. Wolfwood's buries his face into Vash's chest, his arms wrapped around him, while Vash is petting at his hair. Vash reminds him, "Hey. You said we'd talk about it." Wolfwood pauses for a moment before piping up, "In the morning? I'm sleepy." Vash says, "Okay..."

The next two pages start from the morning after. Wolfwood is already fully awake, pulling on his outer jacket as he says to Vash, whos' still bundled in his blankets, "Breakfast is on the table. Make sure to eat it. I'm going to grab some things in town and then we're leavin'. Got it?" Vash says, "Mh." Wolfwood responds, "Good. See ya in a bit." The dialogue starts to shift into Vash's inner thoughts now, as he gets up and eats toast, thinking, "Wait. Weren't we supposed to... talk about it?" The next shot then shows him fully up, meeting Wolfwood in town. He carries a half worried expression with him while Wolfwood slides on his glasses for him. A quick panel shows Wolfwood's tired expression from the night before and quickly juxtaposes with Wolfwood in front of him who's smiling gently, the shades covering his eye bags. Wolfwood asks him, "Still not awake yet?" Vash pauses, his thoughts stirring, thinking, "Oh. I guess I was getting ahead of myself... thinking you owe me that kind of honesty." He smiles at Wolfwood and responds, "I'm awake!" His thoughts continue, "Maybe one day, you'd trust me enough to share your burdens."

The final image shows Wolfwood pulling at Vash's cheek and Vash complains, "Owwwww why..." Wolfwood quickly says, "You were thinking something stupid, right? It's all over yer face." Vash mutters, "Nooo, I wasn't..." END ID]

#vashwood #trigun #trigun maximum #vash the stampede #nicholas d wolfwood #Theyre both thoroughly exhausted tired individuals -- vash having to fight this lonely battle for over a hundred years and getting dragged #back into inevitable situation with knives after a 2 years hiatus of being a gunslinger. they both need so much Rest and comfort in this #department... .SIGHS. BUT I JUST THINK ABOUT WOLFWOOD . AND HOW... LITTLE He has existed on no man's land. how majority of his years being #alive is being used as a weapon and to kill when him at his very core is the most giving and selfless individual ever #badlands rumble inspired me a bit but i do think wolfwood gets dragged into occasional tasks from the eye of michael while on his duty of #guiding vash -- or i think that one chapter where we got to see other members of eom -- there's like a clear division within the eom too #i think.... so i figured similarly to vash but not to the same amount -- there are people that look for wolfwood too. but most of the time #it's probably wolfwood that has to look for someone else and take them out. i feel like it happens ever so occasionally. #evidentially these two don't talk enough canonically but they always know how to express things properly to affirm that they're okay #they have the worst time ever sharing burdens - can't willingly burden the other and has neeever asked for help or reprieve in their #desperate situations... vw is a huge case of right person wrong time syndrome so they just. in the time they get to spend together -- even #if romantically - they don't have enough time to heal to get over that kind of hurdle. They've just never asked for help in all the years #they've been alive -- they don't even know how to and its just aughhhsgskg #and well! they don't even need to ask! because they'll be there for each other anyway at the end of the day -- company and presence alone. #ruporas art

[theravenlyn-art]

she was like an angel to me

#artlyn #mcu #the marvels #monica rambeau #photon #// #sorry for posting about mcu lol #and i guess for vague spoilers #but like genuinely seeing monica glow filled me with so much awe i was close to weeping and like damn maybe thats what people talk about #when they tell stories about crying because they saw an angel #not to overhype the scene lmao #but also theres a bit as an aside to kamala where she's like ''dont worry about it baby'' and i was like :') #also khan family appreciation i love them #anyway whipped this up in an hour or something because couldnt get it out of my head

[rowrowronnie]

it would be quite funny if the blu medic was also their collective therapist

#tf2 #fanart #art #doodle #tf2 fanart #team fortress 2 #tf2 scout #tf2 medic #tf2 spy #my thoughts #comic #he would get so tired of them all instantly but he also likes the bonus it gives him #so he deals #scout is his favorite to deal with because his adhd ass talks about anything and everything and it gives medic a break from #All the mental health issues he has to analyze #also it is My Headcanon and blu Scout and Medic are 4ever besties to me 🤞🤞‼️‼️ #also apologies if there r too much doodle posting i Finally have a bit of freetime and wifi

[gallusgalluss]

long time no aliens, huh

#took a bit of a break from drawing woodwinds just Because but felt like drawing them again cause i miss my weird anteaters #also i decided to give the species a few edits. the most noticeable one is probably their hands #they only have 4 digits now and i wanted them to look different between the three species #plainswinds only using their hooves for walking. waspwinds using their hooves and Backwards Digit #and lowinds not having a hoof at all #also gave lowinds more physical differences so they aren't just small blue plainswinds (shorter torso. dewlap skin instead of wattles. etc) #yea :V! #art #drey draws #woodwind aliens #speculative biology #ouuuh i missed my funny guys i need to talk about them for a million hours rn

[katabay]

original thief series basso & garrett :)

ngl, it's about quality over quantity for me. an npc can have a total of three minutes of screen time, but if they have a cool name, they can live rent free in my head and I'll spend several hours trying to decipher drawable features from a blurry screenshot of pixels

there is a vague hint of a story here, and that's because every time I try to play thi4f, I get incredibly frustrated with how Not Fun the game play is. like, is the story good? well. but it has a PLAGUE. that should've given it instant 'I'll replay this once a year' status in my heart, but the game play sucks so bad that I've never finished it. I can't believe Not Fun gameplay beat out my obsession with narrative plagues.

anyway, the idea is basically if the original era had a game with a plague centric narrative and some other stuff I liked out of thi4f thrown into a narrative blender, with a heavy dash of horror thrown in because some parts of the thief games were scarier to me than entire dedicated horror genre games.

⭐ places I’m at! bsky / pixiv / pillowfort /cohost / cara.app

#if i had a laptop and the skillset i would attempt a story mod because the thief modders who create whole mission stories #are GENIUS and also somewhat terrifying. love them! xoxox #anyway im actually kind of obsessed with parts of thi4f but its also like. not at that sweet spot of almost good enough to be fun #to talk about. which. for the record. has not stopped me from talking about it at length to people #the city itself actually fucking fascinates me. its almost alive and im SO mad that not a single part of that game is actually terrifying #it should be gnarlier and instead it feels a bit like it doesn't quite want to be trapped in the story it has to tell? #but between the level that has the bodies on the meathooks #and the scene with the bodies hanging from the rafters or whatever that was and garrett living in a clock tower #because the game is very much ALMOST about changing times and authoritarian violence and capitalism #(like. by virtue of how the story sort of spins out i think it misses it's mark on a lot of stuff here #in the sense that i dont feel like it actually wants to tell that story. it wants to. go in a different direction. or at least walk on top #of those themes instead of through it) #ANYWAY between all of those things. it does kind of live in my head rent free. they did create a compelling setting #SHAME THEY DIDNT WANT TO ACTUALLY EAT ANY OF IT #unrelated but i would've given thi4f a 10/10 if they kept garrett's fucking nail polish from the concept art. cowards. unforgivable #thief the dark project #i still have no idea how to tag the game series as a whole RIP #sorry for the dedicated dark project fans. if you know what the general series tag is. please let me know #garrett thief #basso thief

[dazaijustscrollsfic]

reminder that most likely the purgatory 2 players won't be added to the actual qsmp. I see so many people thinking those ~40 people so far are getting added to the qsmp and no, they're not, just purgatory 2 😭

#qsmp #i'm being dramatic #this is a reminder because NOBODY TOLD ME and because people were talking about them being on. the actual server #i though they were being added for a bit #dont be as dumb as me guys

[royalarchivist]

[A sad violin song plays over an image of a sad hamster]

Pac: This doesn't have anything to do with me – I wear a blue sweatshirt, you're crazy, this mouse doesn't even have a sweatshirt, this hamster! [Reading chat] Am I a depressed hamster?

[ Transcript continued ↓ ]*

–

Pac: Actually– that's fine! I embrace that idea – of course I'm going to be depressed, are you crazy? [He hits his desk, then starts counting off people on his fingers] Fit is gone, Richarlyson is gone, Ramon is gone, Bagi and Empanada who were always there when we were there are also gone, I haven't seen them! It's just me and Tubbo, and sometimes Philza shows up.

Pac: I lost Chume Labs, I lost the Favela, I lost Murder Mystery, I lost Ilha Chume Labs, it's crazy! Look at how much I've lost, and I've gained nothing! Of course I'm going to be depressed, are you crazy?! How am I supposed to be happy?!

Pac: [Reading chat] "You have us Pac," that's true, thank you. No, that's true, sorry.

* NOTE: Please note that this is an incomplete transcript, as I was primarily relying on Aypierre's translation mod at the time and if I am not confident of the translation, I do not include it. As always, please feel free to add on translations or message me corrections.

#Pactw #QSMP #Pac #March 18 2024 #As much as I love keeping people updated about Pac / the other Portuguese-speaking creators #I think I might not make as many transcribed posts for their clips anymore #I just don't think I'm qualified enough to be transcribing things for a language I don't know #like yeah we have the Qlobal Translator and Aypierre's translators to rely on #And I'm always upfront when I'm not 100% sure about a translation #but I've been thinking about it a lot and it kinda makes me feel a bit icky. Idk. #I might be overthinking this but I just I don't want to spread around translations I'm not super confident about #esp. since I know a lot of people cite my clips in analysis posts or link them to other people as resources #and 90% of the time I'm like ''Hell yeah I love seeing people getting a lot of use out of the archive'' #but sometimes I get a bit anxious like ''Did I do a good enough job translating this'' #''Am I ruining someone's entire perception of a conversation or character because I left one word out or mistranslated something?'' #And like I said that's normally not a HUGE concern since if I'm not certain about a translation I just won't post a clip. but you know #idk it might just be the anxiety talking but I really really don't want to spread bad info #Happy to hear other folks' perspective #I'm really grateful for people like Bell and Pix and others who translate clips and I always try to reblog those #but we don't have a ton of people posting clips & translating things on Tumblr since we're so English-centric #which is part of the reason WHY I like sharing clips of the non-English-speaking CCs #but at the same time I want to do an accurate job representing what they're saying #Maybe I'll just start posting things and give a TLDR context of what they're talking about but not a transcript #that way native-speakers can hop in and add translations if that's something they're comfortable doing #and if not then well. at least I'm not sharing something that isn't super accurate #idk I'm just thinking out loud a bit in the tags #But I'm open to hearing other people's thoughts on the matter #Anyways giant rant aside. q!Pac is NOT doing ok rn

[bitchthefuck1]

It's kind of funny that Kendall and Shiv are both equally delusional about their ability to charm people for business and somehow think they can do it even though they choke almost every single time, whereas it's like the one thing Roman is consistently good at despite being the "least legitimate" option.

I think part of this comes down to the fact that Shiv and Kendall both have very clear ideas of the versions of themselves they're trying to be and the images they're trying to project, and they're trying so hard to be seen that way that they end up coming off as a little desperate and off-putting. Meanwhile Roman "knows" that there's something wrong with him and he's worthless, so he doesn't get sucked into the trap of trying to force people to see his idea of himself and instead molds himself into whatever he thinks the other person wants from him because that's the only way he can compensate for "being him," which works very well in the short term but also means he's the least capable of maintaining any relationship for very long because he has no sense of self.

#this was going to be a joke about kendall consistently failing to charm anyone that isn't stewy (and still for some reason thinking he's #good at it) but then i thought about it too hard and started connecting dots #but it is really interesting on a character level to analyze the different ways the siblings act when they're trying to win someone over #kendall and shiv will try to find common ground but they always end up pushing too hard and overplaying their hands because they're #focussing too much on wanting to get the person to take them seriously or see them the way they want to be seen #and roman will test the waters a bit but not say anything definitive until he get the person talking and can see what it is they want #and then just says whatever it is he thinks they want to hear #which also makes a lot of sense with the abuse dynamics since he was the one most likely to actually get hit so the goal is to just make #sure dad never gets angry at you and tell him whatever you need to to avoid that because the consequences will be worse #anyways its 2 am here you go #succession #kendall roy #shiv roy #roman roy

[bonetrousledbones]

so when are we gonna start appreciating undertale AUs for fueling a metric fuck ton of the creativity and longevity of the fandom because if i see one more person calling them the cringiest part of the last 8 years i might lose it

#trousled rants #been feeling a bit salty about this for a while but im letting it out now because i Can #but its insane seein ppl say “oh the fandom's mellowed out a lot its way more peaceful now” and agreeing bc it IS #and then “yeah now that AUs aren't so popular anymore its way more bearable” and its like :) okay #and if i told you that fan game you've been talking about for the past month is an au. what then #sighsghs its just like man i GET that a lot of aus are just edgy for the sake of it but shit dude!!! people were just having fun!!!!! #a lot of them were an avenue for ppl learning how to make their own stories!! even if they're not perfect or in character #making a shit ton of papyrus aus is one of the main things that helped me realize how much i love character design #and i KNOWWWW i'm not the only one and youre trying to tell me that's not awesome as hell!!!!! #yeah i probably i have nostalgia glasses but maybe i do kinda miss when everybody was a bit more insane actually . maybe i do #undertale

[avephelis]

every time someone mischaracterises jay ferin as the therapist friend a fairy loses its wings btw. put some respect on her emotionally-constipated ass.

#there's a whole ongoing bit where she either a. forces chip to do feelings talks for her or b. says the most awkward shit ever #like someone opens up to her she's like “wow that was a lot. anyway.” #jay “well i'm just a girl so” ferin. jay the answer is gun ferin. #i get this is a common issue with fandom treatment of female characters but COME THE FUCK ON. IT'S A CANON CHARACTER TRAIT. #and it adds so much depth to the times she DOES try to help or comfort people like in 81/82 where she goes up to chip about gill like #“i'm kind of shit at this emotional stuff but i'm going to do my best for you damnit”. AND SHE FUCKING TRIES. BECAUSE SHE LOVES THEM. #also her getting tipsy and spewing the most insane shit and going teehee ^_^ was that awkward sorry ^_^ and falling over. so fucking funny. #jay ferin #jrwi #im so normal about these fictional characters <- lie #i talk about this all the time in my dms im finally making a post about it I CANT STAND IT ANYMOREE

[soren-apologist]

king soren and general ike of daein

-

solos

#good fucking lord this took forever #the file was such a megachonker that the app crashed every time i tried to export the png #i taught myself how to render metal for this #never doing this shit again (lies) #anyway i do have many thoughts about this au but this isn’t really the best place to talk about them #but just know that they’re supposed to be a bit older here than in canon and this is like post-rd by a few years #though i guess in this version radiant dawn was a lot different because soren was always heir to the throne and took over #as soon as assnards was defeated #ok now for the actual tags #fire emblem #fe10 #tellius #ike #soren fire emblem #ikesoren #shroudraws #king soren au

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

Prince Rhaegar as a character often gets some deserved criticism - and a lot of underserved hate. And one of the things that I think he unfairly gets blamed for is Elia Martell's tragedy. Elia's death is one of the primary objections people have towards Rhaegar and Lyanna being depicted as a romance, with readers believing that if they were just tragic lovers, then that diminishes Elia's own tragedy.

I...disagree. It is understandable (and honestly right) that readers would rally behind Elia. Not only was she horribly brutalized and murdered, but her children suffered absolutely terrible fates as well.

However, in trying to center Rhaegar and Lyanna's doomed dalliance in this, a lot of readers are missing the answer that has been already provided to us within the narrative. Not only that, but this line of thinking also ignores the key context in which Elia's senseless murder is portrayed.

As far as the text goes, Elia’s death is laid squarely at the feet of Tywin Lannister and his men, Ser Gregor Clegane and Ser Amory Lorch. It's House Lannister's burden to bear.

Doran for one, Elia's brother, directly blames Tywin Lannister:

“You mistake patience for forbearance. I have worked at the downfall of Tywin Lannister since the day they told me of Elia and her children.”

The Princess in the Tower, AFFC

Even Oberyn agrees:

“Dwarf,” said the Red Viper, in a tone grown markedly less cordial, “spare me your Lannister lies. Is it sheep you take us for, or fools? My brother is not a bloodthirsty man, but neither has he been asleep for sixteen years. Jon Arryn came to Sunspear the year after Robert took the throne, and you can be sure that he was questioned closely. Him, and a hundred more. I did not come for some mummer’s show of an inquiry. I came for justice for Elia and her children, and I will have it. Starting with this lummox Gregor Clegane … but not, I think, ending there. Before he dies, the Enormity That Rides will tell me whence came his orders, please assure your lord father of that.” He smiled. “An old septon once claimed I was living proof of the goodness of the gods. Do you know why that is, Imp?”

Tyrion IV, ASOS

“Is that the game we are playing?” Tyrion rubbed at his scarred nose. He had nothing to lose by telling Oberyn the truth. “There was a bear at Harrenhal, and it did kill Ser Amory Lorch.” “How sad for him,” said the Red Viper. “And for you. Do all noseless men lie so badly, I wonder?” “I am not lying. Ser Amory dragged Princess Rhaenys out from under her father’s bed and stabbed her to death. He had some men-at-arms with him, but I do not know their names.” He leaned forward. “It was Ser Gregor Clegane who smashed Prince Aegon’s head against a wall and raped your sister Elia with his blood and brains still on his hands.” “What is this, now? Truth, from a Lannister?” Oberyn smiled coldly. “Your father gave the commands, yes?” “No.” He spoke the lie without hesitation, and never stopped to ask himself why he should. The Dornishman raised one thin black eyebrow. “Such a dutiful son. And such a very feeble lie. It was Lord Tywin who presented my sister’s children to King Robert all wrapped up in crimson Lannister cloaks.”

Tyrion IX, ASOS

“Elia Martell, Princess of Dorne,” the Red Viper hissed. “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children…“I came to hear you confess.”

Tyrion X, ASOS

Varys and Tyrion both understand that House Martell (but more specifically Doran) hates the Lannisters.

“The Dornishmen thus far have held aloof from these wars. Doran Martell has called his banners, but no more. His hatred for House Lannister is well known, and it is commonly thought he will join Lord Renly. You wish to dissuade him.” “All this is obvious,” said Tyrion. “The only puzzle is what you might have offered for his allegiance. The prince is a sentimental man, and he still mourns his sister Elia and her sweet babe.” “My father once told me that a lord never lets sentiment get in the way of ambition … and it happens we have an empty seat on the small council, now that Lord Janos has taken the black.” “A council seat is not to be despised,” Varys admitted, “yet will it be enough to make a proud man forget his sister’s murder?” “Why forget?” Tyrion smiled. “I’ve promised to deliver his sister’s killers, alive or dead, as he prefers. After the war is done, to be sure.” Varys gave him a shrewd look. ��My little birds tell me that Princess Elia cried a … certain name … when they came for her.” “Is a secret still a secret if everyone knows it?” In Casterly Rock, it was common knowledge that Gregor Clegane had killed Elia and her babe. They said he had raped the princess with her son’s blood and brains still on his hands. “This secret is your lord father’s sworn man.” “My father would be the first to tell you that fifty thousand Dornishmen are worth one rabid dog.” Varys stroked a powdered cheek. “And if Prince Doran demands the blood of the lord who gave the command as well as the knight who did the deed …” “Robert Baratheon led the rebellion. All commands came from him, in the end.” “Robert was not at King’s Landing.” “Neither was Doran Martell.”

Tyrion IV, ACOK

Really, all the nobles know where to look at when assigning blame for Elia's murder. Tywin.

“Prince Doran comes at my son’s invitation,” Lord Tywin said calmly, “not only to join in our celebration, but to claim his seat on this council, and the justice Robert denied him for the murder of his sister Elia and her children.” Tyrion watched the faces of the Lords Tyrell, Redwyne, and Rowan, wondering if any of the three would be bold enough to say, “But Lord Tywin, wasn’t it you who presented the bodies to Robert, all wrapped up in Lannister cloaks?” None of them did, but it was there on their faces all the same. Redwyne does not give a fig, he thought, but Rowan looks fit to gag.

Tywin, for the most part, quite shamelessly tries to disassociate himself from his own moral failings; this is nothing new, because he follows this same MO with squarely blaming the Freys for the Red Wedding even though he played an integral part in planning for it.

“Then why did the Mountain kill her?” “Because I did not tell him to spare her. I doubt I mentioned her at all. I had more pressing concerns. Ned Stark’s van was rushing south from the Trident, and I feared it might come to swords between us. And it was in Aerys to murder Jaime, with no more cause than spite. That was the thing I feared most. That, and what Jaime himself might do.” He closed a fist. “Nor did I yet grasp what I had in Gregor Clegane, only that he was huge and terrible in battle. The rape … even you will not accuse me of giving that command, I would hope. Ser Amory was almost as bestial with Rhaenys. I asked him afterward why it had required half a hundred thrusts to kill a girl of … two? Three? He said she’d kicked him and would not stop screaming. If Lorch had half the wits the gods gave a turnip, he would have calmed her with a few sweet words and used a soft silk pillow.” His mouth twisted in distaste. “The blood was in him.”

Tyrion VI, ASOS

“And when Oberyn demands the justice he’s come for?” “I will tell him that Ser Amory Lorch killed Elia and her children,” Lord Tywin said calmly. “So will you, if he asks.” “Ser Amory Lorch is dead,” Tyrion said flatly. “Precisely. Vargo Hoat had Ser Amory torn apart by a bear after the fall of Harrenhal. That ought to be sufficiently grisly to appease even Oberyn Martell.” “You may call that justice …” “It is justice. It was Ser Amory who brought me the girl’s body, if you must know. He found her hiding under her father’s bed, as if she believed Rhaegar could still protect her. Princess Elia and the babe were in the nursery a floor below.”

Tyrion VI, ASOS

Tywin tries to alleviate himself of any responsibility by blaming his men, but the narrative actively calls bullshit on this (through Tywin's own son no less).

So the narrative shows through multiple POVs that Elia's murder is contextualized exclusively as a failing on Tywin Lannister and his men; not only was it a moral failing, but Tyrion also questions if it was politically necessary in the first place. It's also important to note that ASOS is when we really dive into the matter of Elia and her children (mostly through Oberyn), but we also have to remember that this is the same book as the Red Wedding. The Red Wedding, another one of Tywin's senseless massacres that he tries to postulate as politically necessary.

So, we have agreed that the blame and context for Elia's (and her children's) murder is presented through the lens of Tywin as an immoral politician who often makes politically unnecessary moves. But then we ask ourselves, can the responsibility of this tragedy be extended? Well, yes it can. And it has been in the text.

Ser Barristan extends this tragedy beyond Tywin and his men

...to King Robert.

“Prince Rhaegar had two children,” Ser Barristan told him. “Rhaenys was a little girl, Aegon a babe in arms. When Tywin Lannister took King’s Landing, his men killed both of them. He served the bloody bodies up in crimson cloaks, a gift for the new king.” And what did Robert say when he saw them? Did he smile? Barristan Selmy had been badly wounded on the Trident, so he had been spared the sight of Lord Tywin’s gift, but oft he wondered. If I had seen him smile over the red ruins of Rhaegar’s children, no army on this earth could have stopped me from killing him. “I will not suffer the murder of children. Accept that, or I’ll have no part of this.”

The Kingbreaker, ADWD

Ned Stark does as well.

Ned did not feign surprise; Robert’s hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar’s wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, “I see no babes. Only dragonspawn.” Not even Jon Arryn had been able to calm that storm. Eddard Stark had ridden out that very day in a cold rage, to fight the last battles of the war alone in the south. It had taken another death to reconcile them; Lyanna’s death, and the grief they had shared over her passing.

Eddard II, AGOT

And so does Tywin, who uses Robert's tacit approval as justification for this senseless act.

Lord Tywin stared at him as if he had lost his wits. “You deserve that motley, then. We had come late to Robert’s cause. It was necessary to demonstrate our loyalty. When I laid those bodies before the throne, no man could doubt that we had forsaken House Targaryen forever. And Robert’s relief was palpable. As stupid as he was, even he knew that Rhaegar’s children had to die if his throne was ever to be secure. Yet he saw himself as a hero, and heroes do not kill children.” His father shrugged. “I grant you, it was done too brutally. Elia need not have been harmed at all, that was sheer folly. By herself she was nothing.”

Tyrion VI, ASOS

So if we can't extend the blame to Rhaegar, because the narrative doesn't do so either, what can we hold him responsible for? Let's take a step back and look at Rhaegar's culpability in this whole thing.

Was Rhaegar (and Lyanna) responsible for starting the war that would eventually lead to Elia's murder?

No. GRRM doesn't think so. The war actually started when King Aerys murdered the Lord of Winterfell and his heir, a bunch of other northern nobles, and then called for the heads of Robert Baratheon (Lord of Storm's End) and Ned Stark (the new Lord of Winterfell). Aerys broke the feudal contract, and so Jon Arryn declared war.

I don't think I would have stayed loyal to the Mad King. Do I think they were justified? Yes, and no. [...] There was no doubt that the Mad King was mad. He was paranoid and he was abusing his power. And Westeros has no Magna Carta or anything like that. There was no way to handle this within the rule of law. But was what they do justified? Especially when you consider that it was triggered by a personal grievance. The execution of Ned's father and brother was really a thing that radicalized Ned and put him in opposition to it. Robert was just rolling for a fight and didn't like the fact that he'd lost his girlfriend. So you know, the personal informs the political.

source

Rhaegar and Lyanna's disappearance was merely the spark - it led to a misunderstanding that caused Brandon Stark to ride to Kingslanding. What really caused the war was Aerys' Targaryens subsequent actions as the king. So if we want to blame someone for causing the chain of events that led to Elia's death as well as her children's, the author himself says to blame Aerys; even though I don't think this is right either because we once again stray from the necessary (and sole) context of Elia's murder - Tywin's bloody hands.

Fine. Rhaegar was not responsible for the war. But surely he is responsible for leaving Elia in King's Landing, right in the clutches of Mad King Aerys. Well, this again, is not true. As far as Rhaegar knew, Elia was in Dragonstone with Aegon and Rhaenys where he left them.

As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon’s turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon.

“The Year of the False Spring”, The World of Ice and Fire

At some point, Elia was called to King's Landing. And it was Aerys who kept her hostage there as insurance against possible Dornish betrayal (remember, he was paranoid).

Side Note: Aerys kept another important political hostage in King's Landing along with Elia - Jaime Lannister; this is to deter anyone from trying to blame Jaime for doing nothing. He was a teenager and a hostage himself!

“My Sworn Brothers were all away, you see, but Aerys liked to keep me close. I was my father’s son, so he did not trust me. He wanted me where Varys could watch me, day and night. So I heard it all.” He remembered how Rossart’s eyes would shine when he unrolled his maps to show where the substance must be placed. Garigus and Belis were the same. “Rhaegar met Robert on the Trident, and you know what happened there. When the word reached court, Aerys packed the queen off to Dragonstone with Prince Viserys. Princess Elia would have gone as well, but he forbade it. Somehow he had gotten it in his head that Prince Lewyn must have betrayed Rhaegar on the Trident, but he thought he could keep Dorne loyal so long as he kept Elia and Aegon by his side. The traitors want my city, I heard him tell Rossart, but I’ll give them naught but ashes. Let Robert be king over charred bones and cooked meat. The Targaryens never bury their dead, they burn them. Aerys meant to have the greatest funeral pyre of them all. Though if truth be told, I do not believe he truly expected to die. Like Aerion Brightfire before him, Aerys thought the fire would transform him … that he would rise again, reborn as a dragon, and turn all his enemies to ash.

Jaime V, ASOS

Ok, fine. So Rhaegar did not abandon her with Aerys then run off to Lyanna. But he should have done something when he came back, right? Why didn't he leave more Kings Guard with Elia and the children?

Well....this is a war. The knights of the KG are important assets on the battle field. Kings Landing, at the time, was not the most dangerous location. The KG were better off at the Trident, as a victory there would protect those who were left behind in KL.

And it's not that Rhaegar didn't do anything. Beyond going off to lead the battle himself, he tried to make moves that would help those who were back in KL (Elia and the children included).

He floated in heat, in memory. “After dancing griffins lost the Battle of the Bells, Aerys exiled him.” Why am I telling this absurd ugly child? “He had finally realized that Robert was no mere outlaw lord to be crushed at whim, but the greatest threat House Targaryen had faced since Daemon Blackfyre. The king reminded Lewyn Martell gracelessly that he held Elia and sent him to take command of the ten thousand Dornishmen coming up the kingsroad. Jon Darry and Barristan Selmy rode to Stoney Sept to rally what they could of griffins’ men, and Prince Rhaegar returned from the south and persuaded his father to swallow his pride and summon my father. But no raven returned from Casterly Rock, and that made the king even more afraid. He saw traitors everywhere, and Varys was always there to point out any he might have missed. So His Grace commanded his alchemists to place caches of wildfire all over King’s Landing. Beneath Baelor’s Sept and the hovels of Flea Bottom, under stables and storehouses, at all seven gates, even in the cellars of the Red Keep itself.

Jaime V ASOS

And Jaime's POV once again shows us that Rhaegar banked on victory at the Trident, and was fully expecting to come back to KL and amend the fraught political situation.

The day had been windy when he said farewell to Rhaegar, in the yard of the Red Keep. The prince had donned his night-black armor, with the three-headed dragon picked out in rubies on his breastplate. “Your Grace,” Jaime had pleaded, “let Darry stay to guard the king this once, or Ser Barristan. Their cloaks are as white as mine.” Prince Rhaegar shook his head. “My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour.” Jaime’s anger had risen up in his throat. “I am not a crutch. I am a knight of the Kingsguard.” “Then guard the king,” Ser Jon Darry snapped at him. “When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey.” Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime’s shoulder. “When this battle’s done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but … well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return.”

Jaime I, AFFC

So Rhaegar wasn't leaving with no care about what happened back in King's Landing. We don't know what he wanted to do with Aerys, Elia, Lyanna, and the aftermath of the war because he died at the Trident. But we do know that he, at the very least, was planning to do something.

So we can't blame Rhaegar (and Lyanna) for starting the war and we can't blame him either for abandoning Elia in King's Landing with no care about what happens next. So, again, what can we blame him for?

“It's not entirely correct that the Martells stayed out of the war. Rhaegar had Dornish troops with him on the Trident, under the command of Prince Lewyn of the Kingsguard. However, the Dornishmen did not support him as strongly as they might have, in part because of anger at his treatment of Elia, in part because of Prince Doran's innate caution.”

SSM, 09/11/1999

GRRM states that Dorne was angry about Rhaegar's treatment of Elia. What is this treatment, though?

Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty’s laurel in Lyanna’s lap.

Eddard XV, AGOT

Specifically, Rhaegar riding past Elia to crown Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty. Yes, that is a humiliation. And it's undeniable that no one was happy.

The crowning of the Stark girl, who was by all reports a wild and boyish young thing with none of the Princess Elia’s delicate beauty, could only have been meant to win the allegiance of Winterfell to Prince Rhaegar’s cause…Yet if this were true, why did Lady Lyanna’s brothers seem so distraught at the honor the prince had bestowed upon her? Brandon Stark, the heir to Winterfell, had to be restrained from confronting Rhaegar at what he took as a slight upon his sister’s honor…Eddard Stark, Brandon’s younger brother and a close friend to Lord Robert, was calmer but no more pleased.

“The Year of the False Spring”, The World of Ice and Fire

But, humiliating Elia is not the same thing as being responsible for her death. The narrative never equates these two things in any way. Elia's death is about Tywin's immoral and blood thirsty political actions. It's about Dorne's desire for justice (or is it vengeance?) which they know they will not get from the Lannister regime. House Lannister's downfall in King's Landing will be brought about by Prince Aegon's rise - Aegon who is proclaiming to be the long lost son of Prince Rhaegar, and who is being supported by House Martell as of now.

We can criticize Rhaegar for some things, but Elia's death is surely not one of them.

#I generally don't like talking about the whole rhaegar-lyanna-elia stuff partly because I don't really care for either of them #but mostly because these topics often devolve into extremes that help absolutely no one #but I just wanted to hop on here and say that blaming rhaegar for elia's death is imo not cannon compliant #the narrative already give us an answer to this - THE LANNISTERS but more specifically TYWIN and GREGOR and AMORY #it's not rhaegar or lyanna or their child Jon to bear any of the blame in this #dorne's decision to join the war against the crown is entirely because it's in opposition to the lannister regime #that's not to say that rhaegar cannot have responsibility for the humiliation of elia - because even grrm says he does #but saying he bears the blame for her murder is just a bit.....😕 #also rhaegar is one thing but blaming LYANNA of all people is ummm well #rhaegar targaryen #robert's rebellion #tywin lannister #ser gregor clegane #ser amory lorch #house martell #elia martell #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #pls forgive any spelling and grammatical mistakes its midnights and I'm tired af thanks #my stuff

[yuri-for-businesswomen]

normal things to say

#this was because a drunk woman interrupted some gay mens tiktok video like #not saying straight women never harrass gay men but this is A BIT much #especially when all i ever see these guys talking about is the terrible straight women #and not the straight men who are most likely to enact violence towards them but ok #shit talking