A/N: hey hi hello, sooo I still think about Love and Suds at least once a day and I have an itch to keep writing for it. Idk if it'll be like a long fic or anything but more like a collection of various one offs pertaining to a reader who loves Jervis and cause of that in turn tries to save him from going back to his old ways.
However, you don’t necessarily have to read Love and Suds to read this scenario, but it may help provide context to the nature of reader and Hatter’s relationship.
Also, also I did not mean to post two Hatter fics in a row, I just really needed to get this dialogue chain out of my brain lmao
Trigger Warnings: slight angst, so hurt/comfort?, arguing, references to Jervis’ crimes, Batman being Batman (I really tried with him and like his weird stern way of showing concern?). That’s about it.
Word Count: 2.4 k (...oops)
“I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it.” - Alice, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
It was pitiful really.
As Jervis was checking himself over in the bathroom mirror…he found himself echoing the mental health checklist they often asked in the asylum.
“How are you Tetch?”
Good for once it’d seem.
“Where are you right now?”
Gotham, unfortunately.
“In the past two weeks have you thought of hurting yourself or others?”
No…actually.
“On a scale of 1 to 10…how are you feeling?”
For once the answer would actually be higher than 5 and he actually means it. He wasn’t being delirious or perpetually thrusting himself in a fantasy to make him happy.
He actually had something…someone rather that made reality worth being in.
Jervis scrunched up his nose and furrowed his eyebrows. Debating…dictating.
Should…should I wear my hat?
It didn’t have any mechanisms or circuitry along the inside, like he initially planned for his newest hat when the rest were confiscated.
Jervis glanced back in the mirror for another glance. His hair was combed and not greasy, he was able to part it neatly and his bangs didn’t cascade down past his forehead and were less spiky and erratic looking.
Darting his eyes back to his hat in his gloved hands…he bit his lip. This shouldn’t be as difficult as it was. He knew what the hat stood for, what it-it can represent. As many terrible things it was tied to…the formal headgear gave him confidence. It made him stand taller, walk with his shoulders back.
It would be nice…to be confident without it…
Inhaling, before he exhaled deeply.
Would you be proud of him if he didn’t wear it?
The night was for you after all.
It had been a couple weeks since you swooped back into his life and pulled him from one of his darkest moments yet. You stayed with him by his side for a week, until…your reality set in and you had to go to work but you were always close by and he got to hear your voice every day.
As a thank you, Jervis offered to take you out to dinner. While at first you implored the thanks wasn’t necessary, ultimately you couldn’t deny the opportunity to spend time with him.
He began tracing the rim of his hat in thought. Perhaps he could bring it along and ask for your opinion when he saw you. You were always forthcoming and genuine with him. One of the many things he adored about you.
Jervis held the hat in his hands, still fiddling with the rim as he took a taxi to your apartment. The taxi driver didn’t seem to fidget or notice a high profile villain was in his backseat…
For all the nerves bundling and firing in his veins from anxiety…he also couldn’t deny the elation he felt at the prospect of finally seeing you again.
Jervis stood in front of your door, a fresh bouquet nestled in his hand. He rocked his knuckles along your door.
His blood ran cold when the pressure from the knock caused your door to open slightly.
Did you forget to lock it? Was it broken? Should he go in?
You–You knew him better…you knew he wouldn’t break into your apartment for no reason other than to ensure your safety.
He softly pushed the door open more as he snuck in.
Should he sneak?
He called out your name as he crossed the threshold of your door. When he turned on his heel to close the door back, he noticed the broken lock mechanism on your door. He felt himself gritting his teeth.
No doubt you put in a complaint and they’ve gone ignored…this city couldn’t careless if anything happened to you. He would, he cares, he cares more about you than any wretched being in this shallow city–
“I told you to leave! He’s not doing anything wrong or going to do anything!”
“You can’t be sure…”
“I am sure. Because I am here now!”
Jervis’ ears perked up at your voice. The other one was too muffled for him to make out.
Oh, he shouldn’t eavesdrop. That…that was rude. Agh, be polite or be curious…
He at least wanted to know who the other person was.
Jervis noticed a small streak of the moonlight cascading down the hallway. That was likely your bedroom at the end of the short hallway. Jervis slowly crept down the hallway. He once again softly pushed the door open a little more to have one eye visible to the events unfolding.
“Jervis Tetch is an extremely deluded individual. He–he is dangerous.”
“Not to me! He hasn’t nor will he ever hurt me! Because I care about him, unlike you and unlike those doctors at Arkham! None of you cared! You just want another punching bag and the doctors want to be able to control the minds’ of their patients. Nothing more!”
Batman? Batman! W-what was he doing here? To discuss him with you? And why did it seem like you two have had this conversation before?
Batman sighed as he jumped down from the metal railing and properly onto your balcony. You were sitting on the side of your bed looking up at the dark figure.
“I can’t…I can’t ask for you to watch over him. He’s too chaotic and you have your own life to live–”
You stood up in fury. “Don’t–Don’t! Don’t get chivalrous with me oh, Dark Knight! I know what I’m getting into.”
“Do you? Have you seen his case files? Seen the images of the countless women he-”
“I’m not oblivious to his crimes, Bat. You don’t have to remind me.” You put your hands up to your hips. “I–I know what he’s done. It’s horrible, but it could’ve been prevented…It can be prevented.” You began rocking side to side, contemplating.
“Tetch was a brilliant man. He could have done amazing things and accomplished great feats. But I’m afraid he’s passed that…and I don’t want you to blame yourself for not being there for him to prevent his crimes–”
“Stop…”
“I don’t want you to blame yourself, and now assign yourself as his guardian…you may know him but so do I-”
“No! No you don’t! If you knew him so well you wouldn’t have constantly called me to findout more about him! You came to me because you knew I knew him better. If you knew him, detective, you would know more than anything he needs help!” You argued.
Your fists were clenched and held against your chest. Your body shuddered as you fought back tears. Not wanting to show any vulnerability to the Dark Knight.
“He needs help…actual help, from someone that cares about him. That knows him for more than his criminal history…”
You saw Batman begin to open his mouth but you cut him off. “I know what Jervis did, Batman. I’m not naive. You don’t have to guilt trip me or shame me, it’s not going to work.”
"If you know what he's done, you know what he's capable of. What happens when your own reality calls for you to…have to leave Gotham, again? You can't always be there for Jervis. I agree he needs help, but help that's much bigger than you…"
"Oh, you mean like you?" You snarled. "Someone who beats him up, throws him around, and locks him up in an asylum that wouldn't do any better! You don't care about him…not like that Catwoman or better yet your precious clown."
Batman furrowed his brows. "You don't know what you're talking about. You're confused."
You shake your head defiantly, "Bullshit! You give that clown chances after chances, expecting a change…he's done terrible things too Batman. He's killed men, women, children. Husband's, wives, sons, duaghters…"
"Enough." Batman snapped. "This isn't about me. It's about you and Tetch. I'm trying to help you."
"You sure have a funny way of helping…" You sniffled, the tears slowly pouring from your eye ducts, no matter how hard you tried to push them down. "I-I-I I know I left when he needed me most…I regret it every day…I-I had no choice.."
Once Jervis heard your voice crackling from your tears and whimpers, it was like he snapped out of the trance he was in.
He heard every word. Every single word. Jervis didn't appreciate Batman's input a single bit…even if deep down Jervis knew the Caped Crusader had a point.
"That's enough!" Jervis intervened.
You felt his familiar glove hands rest on your shoulders, giving you a comforting squeeze.
You almost jumped out of your skin at his voice and presence.
"Jervis! Oh my god, where…how…when-when did you–?"
He squeezed your shoulders again. "It's all right, darling. Don't worry, I understand."
"Let them be, Jervis." Batman took a step closer to you two.
"Don't take another step, Dark Knight!" Jervis stood in front of you now. "I think you've upset them quite enough! I think it's best you make haste to whatever damp dark cave you call home!"
Your eyes widened as you saw Jervis began walking towards Batman almost going toe to toe with him.
"Jervis! Its-its–"
Batman didn't move as Jervis invaded his personal space. He was studying him, looking for any possible signs of the eccentric deluded man he's come to know.
There wasn't any. His irises were normal, his blood pressure was…normal even considering his angered state, he wasn't rhyming or chortling…and he didn't have his hat.
Batman began walking backwards away from Tetch and back on to the balcony.
"Here's some good advice," he looked over Jervis' shoulder and towards you. "I know you care about him, it's admirable. But you can't do it alone. Best to get out while you can before you're in too deep."
With that he jumped up on the railing and began gliding through the brisk Gotham night air.
Jervis growled in annoyance as he slammed the door to your balcony shut.
"Rude. Positively rude! Breaking and entering! Harassing and interrogating an unsuspecting individual! Why I dare–"
His enraged ramblings were brought to a halt when he heard your sniffling.
Jervis rushed back towards you. He got down on his knees in front of you. He quickly placed your hands in his and squeezed them as he looked up at you sitting on your bed. Tears flowing like a precious stone fountain.
"Shh…it's okay. I-I…I apologize for listening in…I just…never knew…"
You shook your head. "No, no I should apologize. I should've told you, but I didn't want you to think that I was siding with him or anything. What you saw was the norm. He comes storming in and asking questions and telling me what I should and shouldn't do with no regards for my actual thoughts and feelings…"
You squeezed his hands again. "I…I also want to apologize for leaving Gotham! I didn't want to Jervis! It was the hardest thing I ever had to do!" You cried as more guilt driven tears began glowing. You had no choice, you couldn’t find a job pertaining to your field, nor find a part time job that could afford you a room and board in Gotham.
He tried to shush you, bringing his hands up to run your shoulders and gently rock you back and forth. "Darling, darling, please it's all right. You're here now! You were there for me when I needed you most!"
You gulped down a breath. "B-But I couldn't…I didn't-"
"No one could have, if anything I'm…I'm glad you weren't here for all of that."
Jervis brought himself up from off his haunches to embrace you. You rested your head on his shoulder and wrapped your arms around his neck.
After a moment filled with your soft whimpers. You tightened your grip on him as his hand rubbed your back up and down.
"I meant what I said…" You croaked in his ear. "I-I do care about you Jervis, I want to help you and be here for you."
He smiled warmly. "I know you did…I must admit it's very rare to see someone defending me.." he pulled away from the embrace to look at you.
"But I couldn't imagine a better person to have in my corner." He brought his hand up to cup the side of your face and you happily clasped it with your own hand.
"I'm not going anywhere…despite Batman's advice…" You muttered in disapproval.
"I know, and I assure you…it won't be in vain. I'll do whatever it takes."
You smiled softly. You closed your eyes as you leaned your head into his hand. Relieved in the peace that wafted over the hostile air in the room when Batman was there.
You knew what Jervis was capable of, but you were even more aware of his potential to be a better person.
You opened your eyes slowly too look into his bright eyes that crinkled from his own smile.
Then you noticed something was slightly off. "Jervy?"
Jervis giggled, adoring the nickname. "Yes, my dear?"
"Where's your hat?"
His eyes widened. Instinctively his hands reached up to his head only to notice what you said was true. He recalled having it in his hand when he arrived. Had he truly set it down somewhere? In his worrisome state for your safety?
"Oh, um…I brought it with me…where?”
The both of you looked frantically about the room.
“Here it is!” You opened the door from your room and saw it…surprisingly on the floor.
You picked it up gently and softly brushed off some dust from the hardwood floor. “I’m surprised you weren’t wearing it.”
You handed the hat back to Jervis, but he hesitated.
“Do-do you think I should? I-I mean wear it that is…”
Your eyes widened. Something really was stirring in his mind if he doubted putting his hat back on. If anyone knew anything about Jervis it was just how precious his hat was to him.
You glanced down at the headgear and back to Jervis. He was swaying side to side with his head hung low, he stared at the ground.
You walked over to him, lifted his chin up by the tips of your fingers, and gently placed the top hat on his head.
“Here’s some even better advice…Just because you’re changing doesn’t mean your wardrobe has to.” You giggled. “Besides, I absolutely adore your hats…they make you look that much more handsome.”
Jervis couldn’t contain his giddy smile anymore as he chuckled softly. He did feel better with it on, or perhaps he just felt better overall in your presence.
Who needs good advice from someone who doesn’t know you? When you have someone that knows so much and cares so much more instead.
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do you have any particular thoughts regarding marcille being a half-elf? its interesting to me considering the fact that she seems self-conscious about being a half-elf, but denies it when its brought up
i remember marcille looking visibly uncomfortable over laios simply asking her how old she is, which i think the only reason she might feel nervous about this is because it might reveal her as a half-elf to him.
she's never corrected anybody whose called her an elf either.
never mind the circumstances of the reveal, in which thistle goes on about how half-elves are inferior and accusing her of wanting to become full blooded elf, she seemed particularly upset like he struck a nerve-
i wish the half-elf thing was built upon more. also, underrated marcille line:
okay so i revisited this sequence just to make sure I could back myself up and it's just... man. there's a lot going on.
the first reaction we get from Marcille is this huge panel that takes up half of the page
she is viscerally affected. flushing to the tips of her ears with the intensity of it. and we see it again, a few pages later
so it might seem like she's embarrassed about it and lying to herself, but... I really think it's just that Thistle is accidentally hitting sore spots. If you really look at what he says to get these reactions
"you'll live out your entire life [...] and die that way too"
"a hundred years from now, nobody will be there"
Hear me out. I think, if he stuck to harping on about her inferiority without bringing up how terrifyingly long-lived she is, she wouldn't have been as bothered. But right now, Thistle is accidentally hitting all the marks on Marcille's deepest fears-- and this is after the Winged Lion promised her that her dreams could come true in an extremely vulnerable moment, so it also hits her slightly guilty conscience as well.
I do truly believe that Marcille isn't bothered about being a half-elf the way that people assume she'd be bothered by it. To her, the biggest problem with being a half-elf is that it's isolating.
On one hand, it's not hard to imagine why she'd distance herself from elves in the west. A lot of them can clock her as a half-elf on sight, unlike other races, and therefore she's always branded with this weird stigma of being Othered -- I would even say that she considers herself lucky for being born outside of elven culture instead of having to grow up in it. I mean, just... look at the way elves talk about her.
Skipping past the uncomfortable implication of what 'not tolerating the existence' of half-elves would actually entail, this is incredibly fucking annoying. You can see why she wouldn't want to be around elves much. You see a lot of Marcille reacting badly here, but honestly, almost all of it can be attributed to her freaking out that her bluff completely failed. She's honestly more paying attention to Izutsumi's footsteps and trying to coordinate an opportunity to escape.
And in the end, you see her built-up frustration at being asked if she wants to be a full-blooded elf like 2-3 times in a row.
Yeah, yeah, "the lady doth protest too much," and all. But we know Marcille. We know that she's a lot more embarrassed and horrendously unconvincing when she's being prodded about something she's actually self-conscious about.
Moving onto the flipside of things, it might seem weird that she "pretends" to be a full elf around other races, but it's not really that strange if you think about it. Again, people are weird about her being infertile or whatever, and a lots of them don't even know much about what sets half-elves apart from everyone else. I mean, look at how uncomfortable Laios is just asking her about it
and look at how exasperated and resigned she looks
And like... she's right. Where would that come up in normal conversation? Why would she go out of her way to tell them? She's functionally a normal elf to other races anyway -- got the ears, the abnormally long "childhood", and the huge mana capacity. Unless it's directly relevant or important for people to know, I don't think it's all that strange or indicative of insecurity that she prefers not to bother with it.
(This combined with her sense of being an "outsider" to elf culture also explains why she thinks elf superiority is embarrassing. She sees the way elves treat short-lived races from the "outsider" perspective nonetheless, and thinks it's obnoxious; especially more so because she usually has to play the elf around short-lived races and deal with the reputation of arrogance that elves have built up.)
The sad thing is, this all means that... she doesn't actually fit in anywhere. She doesn't like going out West much because of how elves treat her. But she's also an outsider in the continents she was born in, treated like this exotic long-lived alien choosing to live among short-lived races for some reason. She is always an outsider, the Other, no matter where she goes. Add in the fact that she'll live longer than literally anyone she knows, and it's honestly kind of heartbreaking.
And I think that's the crux of it. Marcille really doesn't act like she's at all self-conscious about being a half-elf because of any feelings of inferiority or being half-made or whatever. She considers herself a perfectly legitimate being and might even, in some ways, consider herself superior to normal elves because she's not blind with elf supremacy or whatever. (And whatever "elven biases" she displays, all of them are born more out of the fact that she's kind of bad at conceptualizing how other races age and mature compared to herself, not that she actually considers herself better or more mature simply for being an elf.)
I think that whatever self-consciousness Marcille has about being a half-elf is, instead, related to terror and loneliness. The reminder that it ensures she'll never truly belong anywhere for the rest of her very long life. The reminder that, in truth, even she's not actually sure how old she is by other races' standards (hence the discomfort when asked how old she is). She doesn't want to not be a half elf, or be a full elf or full tall-man-- in her ideal world, she's still a half-elf. She just gets to live out her life at the same pace with the people she loves and doesn't have to say goodbye again and again and again until she dies.
and one last very important panel, right after Mithrun tells her that all her desires would be devoured
In her ideal world, she's still a half-elf and reality magically starts marching at her pace. But failing that, the second best thing is that she's still a half-elf-- but one who is able to accept reality and let go of her fear.
(But the rest of the story pans out the way it does because, to Marcille, taking reality apart and reshaping it was less scary than simply and fully reconciling with it.)
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A (not so) Brief Study Into the Nature of Deltarune
TL;DR:
For some time I've been quite intrigued by the appearance of some very particular leitmotifs that Undertale's and Deltarune's OSTs have in common. This took me down a rabbit hole that ended with the realization that it's quite possible that DR Sans and UT Sans are one in the same, and the Reset Theory on Deltarune is probably right.
This forces me to believe that Deltarune is a prequel from the perspective of the characters, and a spiritual sequel from the perspective of the Soul/Player.
The Pre-Sequel Theory
First and foremost, pardon my english. I'm quite proud of my english skills, but it's not my first language and sometimes I mess up.
This is a LONG post. There's a lot -a LOT- of text and no images at all to ease the reading. I advice jumping into it only if you don't have anything better to do for a bit. The PDF I firstly wrote this on is 6 and a half pages long.
Index:
Motivations.
Clues in Undertale.
Clues in Deltarune.
The Delta Rune.
Conclusions.
Problems with this theory.
Blood (This part is skippable).
Discussion of the problems.
1 Motivations:
I've always been fascinated by soundtracks and ever since Undertale came up, its soundtrack wasn't an exception.
More recently I've been a bit more focused on the leitmotifs that Toby Fox uses in both game's soundtracks and, as many people have found, they share a lot of common themes. For many of them it's easy to understand why (for instance, for common character's themes, like Sans') but for some others it's not so much.
Having a more or less clear relationship between the games through the music, I tried to study the nature of this relationship, and what elements outside the music can be used as proof of this connection. This got me to Sans ,because of course it did.
Trying to justify this took me down the rabbit hole that theory crafting around Sans has always been, and the musical side of my reasoning ended up being a small part of the whole thing. Regardless I'm quite happy with the result, albeit it's not free of problems that I'll address and discuss at the end.
I'd like to also thank @determinators, who's incredible character analysis on Chara inspired me to write this whole thing.
With that out of the way, let's begin by talking about small details that Undertale gives us and hints to it being connected to Deltarune in some way:
2 Clues in Undertale:
There’s a lot of non-music related hints that point towards a possible connection between both games in Undertale. I tried to make a small summarize of all the most important signs I’ve found.
To begin with, there are a couple of small details that show that Sans Undertale seems to have quite the interesting backstory, these being:
Both him and Papyrus appeared one day in Snowdin, seemenly out of nowhere.
In Sans’ lab there’s a broken machine and a poorly drawn picture of 3 people we don’t recognize with ”don’t forget” written on it.
Sans insists a lot about about how he gave up trying to go back (somewhere, sometime, or both).
On the other hand there’s the famous Gaster’s Entry 17, that could imply some knowledge of the Dark Fountains by the former Royal Scientist. Gaster related as well, there’s Clam Girl, who mentions a monster named Suzy. Soon before the release of Deltarune, in the Switch version of the game, Clam Girl would turn grey and says that the time to meet this Suzy ”... is fast approaching”, before disappearing with the sound Mystery Man makes when disappearing himself. Although Suzy is not written the same way as Susie, there’s no reason to believe that Clam Girl is not talking about Deltarune’s Susie. This not only hints to Undertale and Deltarune being connected, but to Gaster being behind the whole connection, since Clam Girls turns into a goner sprite and disappears the same way Mystery Man does. I know Mystery Man is not confirmed to be Gaster, but it’s definitely related to him in someway.
There must be something going on with Papyrus as well, since he’s Sans’ brother and comes to Snowdin with him, but in Undertale he doesn’t seem to know as much as Sans knows. This could mean, since Papyrus doesn’t bleed, that Undertale Papyrus and Undertale Sans are not the same kind of being, and don't share a past.
2.1 Sans’ lines during combat:
During the fight against Sans, nearing the end of the Genocide Route, we get some clues about his backstory within his lines of dialogue. He begins, after the Player’s first attack, by saying:
our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting...until suddenly, everything ends. heh heh heh... that's your fault, isn't it?
We don’t know who is he working with, but it seems they know very well about the power to control the timeline, since they were monitoring it.
Sans continues with:
knowing that one day, without any warning... it's all going to be reset.
look. i gave up trying to go back a long time ago. and getting to the sur-ace doesn't really appeal anymore, either. cause even if we do...we'll just end up right back here, without any memory of it, right?
to be blunt...it makes it kind of hard to give it my all.
Here we get a bit more information. Sans is -understandably- depressed about the whole reset situation, but mentions ”going back” somewhere. We know it’s not somewhen since he doesn’t remember earlier timelines -besides the occasional déjà vu- and it’s not the Surface because he mentions it right after that line. So, where else would Sans be trying to go back to? It can’t be anywhere in the Undertale world, since he can move freely through the Underground - even through teleportation- and he specifically states that it’s not the Surface. Thus it can only mean somewhere outside the Undertale world.
A bit after that he continues with:
all i know is... seeing what comes next... i can't afford not to care anymore.
What does he mean by ”seeing what comes next”? He doesn’t know the future, nor what the Player did in other timelines. So, what is he seeing? I have no clue for what he could be referring too, but I do think that the answer lies within Deltarune’s story. We’ll have to wait for future chapters to know.
2.2 Sans’ secret lab:
After Sans gives the Silver Key -which appears to be a reference to a book about timetravel by H.P. Lovecraft- to the Player, we can access the Secret Lab hidden underneath his house. Inside of it we find:
A covered up broken machine.
Blueprints for a machine written in un- readable symbols.
A badge.
A photo album with:
A picture of Sans, happy, with other people the Player doesn’t recognize.
If the Player already fought Asriel: A second picture appears, showing Sans, Frisk and their friends.
After the v1.001 patch of the game, if the Player has talked to Clam Girl and knows of Suzy, from the back of the photo album sticks out a poorly drawn picture of three smiling people with the words ”Don’t Forget” written on it.
The first three items, although interesting, don’t give us much to work with. The machine is covered up and the blueprints are unreadable. The badge could become another huge hint in the future, if during Deltarune’s festival Sans happens to win a badge for winning at something, but this is purely speculation so I won’t be taking it into account.
The pictures and the drawing, on the contrary, give us much more information. Let's discuss them a bit more in depth:
2.2.1 The photo album:
By the time the Player gets the Silver Key, possibly after the battle with Asriel, they (and Frisk) have met every main character in Undertale’s story. Thus, the people in the first picture, who neither the Player nor Frisk recognize, can’t be anyone we know. They could be people from other places in the Underground Frisk hasn’t met -although from a storytelling perspective this doesn’t make much sense- or they could be from the Deltarune world -which makes a lot more sense storywise-.
Furthermore, there’s the poorly drawn picture. Since this picture only appears after talking to Clam Girl, a character heavily tied to Deltarune -specifically to one Deltarune Character-, and it has the words ”Don’t forget” -words that don't mean anything special in Undertale, but are extremely important an present in Deltarune from the very beginning- written on it, it’s safe to assume that the three poorly drawn characters are a trio from Deltarune. Due to Frisk not recognizing them, they have to be characters that only appear on Deltarune. What trio of characters do we know from Deltarune that fit these characteristics? I’m fairly sure Kris and Susie are two of the three, but the third is a bit more complicated. My first suspect was that it was Ralsei, but since he’s a darkner and we don’t know if darkners will be able to get to the Light world somehow, nor if Sans will end up in a Dark world; I’m more inclined to leave that third character’s identity up for debate. My other candidate is Noelle, since Berdly dies in the Snowgrave route of Chapter 2 -and Toby Fox likes to keep all possible endings as canon- and we don’t know any other important lightner that doesn’t appear in Undertale as well.
3 Clues in Deltarune:
Since we have just 2 chapters -out of Toby knows how many-, not many hints to Undertale appear in the second game. Still, much can be said from the leitmotifs that can be heard in the game’s soundtrack, which was the main motivation for this analysis.
3.1 A brief introduction to leitmotifs:
*This part is skippable if you know what a leitmotif is*
To those who don’t know, a leitmotif is a small piece of melody that appears many times in a composition, and is associated to someone, somewhere or an idea. Examples of this are the main themes of characters: a recognizable simple melody that is associated to a specific someone-For instance, the melody in Nyeh Heh Heh!, which would be Papyrus’ leitmotif-.
Soundtracks are rigged with leitmotifs, and neither Undertale’s nor Deltarune’s soundtracks are an exception. Since each one is associated to a specific character, place or idea, the use of the same ones in both games is something to keep in mind.
3.2 Leitmotifs that appear in both games:
The first song that plays inside the world of Deltarune, in Chapter 1, is Beginning, which has 2 leitmotifs in it: Once upon a time -from Undertale-, and Don’t Forget, -from Deltarune-. This second leitmotif appears in several other songs in Chapter 1, and in some of Chapter 2.
The song that plays in the menu after you finish Chapter 1 is called Before the Story, which has the exact same melody as in Once upon a time. This leitmotif is one of the most -if not he most- used in Undertale’s soundtrack. For me, it’s kind of the ”Undertale theme”, for how much it appears in the soundtrack of the game -same as Don't Forget would be Deltarune's theme-.
There are some other Undertale leitmotifs in Deltarune’s OST that I won’t be taking into consideration. These are the character’s leitmotifs, like Sans’, and other that represent important emotions like determination, despair and hope-These leitmotifs are a bit difficult to recognize if you’re not deep into the music side of the games. Determination can be heard, among others, in Undertale’s Determination and Deltarune’s Rude Buster; Despair corresponds to the melody in Undertale’s Burn in Despair, and appears in Your Best Nightmare, Vs. Susie and at Queen’s basement, right before the Spamton NEO fight; and Hope is sometimes called ”Snowdin’s theme”, which appears in Undertale’s Snowdin Town and Hopes and Dreams -thus why I prefer to call it Hope’s leitmotif- and in Deltarune’s A Town Called Hometown-. These leitmotifs being in both games is to be expected, since they either represent common characters or common emotions to both games, so they're not really relevant to the theory.
Going back to the theory, the use of ”Don’t Forget” as a title for the most present leitmotif in Deltarune is a bit on the nose, taking into account the poorly drawn picture in Sans’ Secret Lab. The soundtrack acts as a constant reminder to not forget -pun intended- that drawing. But this isn’t the only insinuation Toby’s left in the game’s music. There’s another, much obscurer clue, it being the name of the song Before the Story. Since it plays in the menu only after you play Chapter 1, it can’t be referring to ”before the story” of Deltarune, since that story has already begun. So, what if the Story is Undertale’s? If so, since it uses the most important leitmotif of Undertale in a song called ”Before the Story”, this would imply that Deltarune’s story happens before Undertale.
3.3 Non-musical clues:
How the Player interacts with the world seems to also indicate a relationship between games. Specifically those lines that point to the Player knowing characters -or things about characters- that Kris doesn’t know yet. This in and of itself is not enough to prove that the games are a direct sequel and prequel of each other but, in combination with everything else already discussed it does add to that idea.
4 The Delta Rune:
Both the appearance of the Delta Rune in both games and its name are big indicators of this connection between games. Even though in Undertale it’s not known what its original meaning was, there’s a prophecy that sounds remarkably alike to the Delta Rune Legend from Deltarune. In Undertale there are two interpretations: either the Angel will murder all monsters, or free them all from the Underground. Additionally, in Deltarune, the Legend Ralsei tells us says that the Angel is to be defeated by three heroes: two lightners -a human and a monster- and a darkner.
Since the Delta Rune is older than written history in Undertale and it’s original meaning was lost to time, that one of the 2 interpretations for this symbol is so close to the Legend Ralsei gives us, with an evil Angel instead of a benevolent one, could mean that, originally, both Runes had the same meaning behind.
5 Conclusions:
With all this in mind, I’m quite sure now that at the end of Deltarune Sans will end up being stuck in Undertale’s world, possibly using the machine he keeps covered up in his lab. Since Papyrus doesn’t seem to be much different to any other monster in the Underground I don’t think he comes from Deltarune’s world, so I fear a tragic end for the Papyrus we’re yet to meet.
This ending would make sense of the whole ”Your choices don’t matter” thing. The Snowgrave route seemed to contradict this statement but, if just Sans is going to Undertale, whatever you do on Deltarune’s Universe won’t matter to Sans’ end. Undertale’s story is already written and the end we got will remain untouched, as Toby said. This also implies that our actions don't matter to Deltarune’s world end too. This, plus the possible death of Papyrus, points to a violent end of the game. Being blunt: I think the Roaring is inevitable.
But if Deltarune is a prequel, how is it that the Player recognizes the characters that both games have in common and it’s advised that the game is played after Undertale? I believe the game is a prequel from Sans’ perspective, and a spiritual sequel from the Player’s. The Player, being the meta-being that it is in the games, doesn’t need to abide by the same temporal rules the characters are forced to follow. Thus there's no contradiction in Deltarune being a prequel to Undertale.
6 Problems with this theory:
To prove this theory we need for Papyrus to die and the Roaring to happen. It’s a grim condition, perhaps too much so that I don’t see Toby having a dream about it and deciding to dedicate the next +10 years of his life to make a game about it; or perhaps it's just the kind of dramatic and emotive ending that would motivate someone to do exactly just that.
UT Papyrus seems to not know anything about his brother’s possible past in another world, and acts as if they had been together since forever. They both appeared one day in Snowdin and his past seems as mysterious as Sans’, but they can’t be directly related since Papyrus doesn’t bleed.
I don’t know how will Sans get to Undertale’s world (my guess is Gaster, but he’s a bit of an easy-way-out in theory crafting).
Naming a song doesn’t need to be a very thought out process, even if Toby Fox has a tendency to be very attentive to details. The name of Before the story could just be a synonym to "Main menu".
Grillby’s. Sans’ convenience store, ’Sans, appears to have the same façade as Grillby’s in Undertale, with the name of Grillby rubbed off. This small detail is a possible proof against the sequel thesis, albeit it could just mean that Hometown had a Grillby’s before Sans’ convenience store and it closed down for some unknown reason.
It’s debated whether monsters from Deltarune have magic or not. There are some indications that they do have magical powers, but for some reason seem to have forgotten about them and it’s been left as an obscure thing very little people know about. Anyhow, Sans does have -very powerful- magic powers in Undertale, so this uncertainty could disprove the whole theory.
7 Blood.
*This entire part is skippable, after reading the TL;DR*
TL;DR: As always, blood seems to be the biggest issue around Sans’ theories. To summarize, unless we get undeniable proof that DR monsters do bleed in some way before turning into dust, Sans bleeding could be a huge weak point for this theory.
Before I finish this post, I'd like to address one of the biggest conundrums in Undertale: Sans' blood. Throughout the post I've gone with the assumption that Sans can bleed without proving it in anyway.
It’s fair to say that Sans does bleed in Undertale before turning into dust outside the screen, and he’s the only Undertale monster that does. We know he bleeds because he does it from the mouth as well, far from where the Player cuts him, which would only happen with regular bleeding around a digestive system rather than with ketchup stored in his rib cage. But, is there any indication that Deltarune monsters bleed?
This is highly debatable, but there are some unused sprites that show Susie bleeding. Even though they are unused, why would Toby Fox make them if the thought of bleeding monsters wasn’t in his mind? There’s a monster kid - not the Monster Kid- that asks Kris if it hurts to be made of blood, which implies that monsters are not; but the bleeding Susie sprite is a huge indicative that Toby had this idea of monsters bleeding in Deltarune.
Regarding the ”everybody bleeds” quote, in the Japanese version of the game Susie doesn’t mention blood but ”wounds”, using a word in no way related to blood or bloody wounds. Because of this, the quote is probably just a figure of speech. It’s a bit odd that a monster would use a figure of speech that mentions blood, but it’s probably because the script is written by a human, for humans to read; or that she comes from a human community, as some have hypothesised.
7.1 Berdly’s death:
Anyhow, monsters in Deltarune do seem to turn into dust after they die. Gerson, for instance, had his dust buried with his hammer, following a similar funeral ritual to that of Undertale. But Berdly, who is presumably dead after Chapter 2 if the Snowgrave route was taken, didn’t. At least, not for a long time, from after he died until Kris, Susie and Noelle leave the Librarby.
The toy in the hospital’s waiting room appears to confirm to Berdly’s death, since one of the blue beads breaks off after Snowgrave -this means there's more than 1 blue bead, possibly 2: one for Berdly and one for Kris-. But can we be certain that this means death? We do know this toy symbolizes the state of the game: the beads’ colours are the same as the main characters’, it’s said that they each ”march along their set paths", reminding us that our actions don't matter, and in the end of Chapter 2 - if nobody died- it says that the beads "march on". Berdly’s coloured bead being broken and off the rail after Snowgrave, and him appearing to ”not be awake” in the Light world indicate the end of the road for that character. It’s safe to assume that this detail does confirm that he dies after Snowgrave. But if so, how is it that his body didn’t turn immediately into dust?
In the Neutral route, Berdly’s arm gets burned and, after the Dark Fountain gets sealed, his arm doesn’t seem to respond. It’s not burned, just not moving. From this we can assume that injuries in the Dark world have physical manifestations in the Light world. This explains why Berdly is just dead and not frozen after Snowgrave. But it also could mean that he’s not completely dead, but fallen down, a comatose fatal state. This could mean that the broken bead does means certain death, just not right away. If so, then there’s nothing pointing to Deltarune monsters being any different to Undertale’s in nature, other than their apparent lack of magic powers, and this whole theory crumbles to dust -pun intended-.
As always, blood seems to be the biggest issue around Sans’ theories. So, to summarize, unless we get undeniable proof that monsters bleed in some way before turning into dust, this will keep on being a huge weak point in this theory.
8 Discussion of the problems:
Regardless of these problems, including the blood one, I still believe that this theory holds. There’s enough evidence to back up the thesis. Even if monsters don’t bleed in Deltarune, it’d make perfect sense for Sans UT to be from this world and not Undertale’s.
Nevertheless, if the blood problem isn’t explained through Deltarune, new theories will have to arise to explain why Sans is so different from any other monster.
Furthermore, if bleeding is not something Deltarune monsters do, then it’s possible that UT Papyrus is the same as DR Papyrus, like Sans, since the main reason for that distinction was that Papyrus didn’t bleed. This would imply an ending a bit less grim for the skeleton duo, although the inevitability of the Roaring still looks unavoidable to maintain the whole theme of the game: ”Your choices don’t matter ”
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