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#ozpin: like what
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..
extra:
(it was a spring morning)
(he was a frail boy with no friends)
(he ran into you from across the wall)
(you said hello to him, and asked him to play along)
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(at that very moment, he received his lifelong—)
extra 2: oscar boogaloo
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yeahhhh....iykyk
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aspennntree · 2 months
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since we only see the fucking. what do i call it. this thing.
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when theyre alone do we think oscar has told the others about these weird merge episodes? because it doesnt seem like they know...
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bestworstcase · 14 days
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actually comparing the divine ultimatum in the sanctioned version of ‘the two brothers’ to what the god of light really said to ozma is interesting. the received version is:
if your kind has learned to live in harmony with one another and set aside their differences, then we shall once again live among you, and humanity will be made whole again. but if your kind is unchanged, if you demand our blessings while still fighting amongst yourselves, then man will be found irredeemable and your world will be wiped from existence.
and the sanctioned version is:
If they are worthy, we will take their forms and walk among them as equals. If not, we will take back our gifts and start over elsewhere. […] Humanity will make it plain. If they come together in unity and find a way to destroy the evil in the world and within themselves, then they are worthy. If not … we will let them burn.
there are… two interesting alterations here.
#1, "we shall once again live among you and humanity will be made whole" becomes "the gods will take human forms and walk among us as our equals." gestures at ‘the gift of the moon’ and ozpin’s commentary thereupon…
One interpretation of this story focuses on the fact that the people caused the problem in the first place. But in my view, it is only natural for us to want to bring more light into the world and “reach for the sun.” And on the brighter side, if you’ll excuse the pun, people were also part of the solution. They not only replaced the sun, a celestial gift from the all-powerful God of Light, but also improved upon it through their own ingenuity. Most importantly, they could not have accomplished this magnificent, godly feat without uniting for a common purpose in a way they never had before. The world once was divided between day and night, light and darkness, but by coming together, and overcoming their inherent jealousy and resentment, people made the darkness just a little bit brighter for all.
…wherein ozpin sidles right up to the precipice of I Stand With My Damned Wife: it’s "only natural" to "reach for the sun," used here explicitly as an allegory for the gifts or blessing of the "all-powerful god of light," whom humanity "replaced" with something better through their own "ingenuity" (even the smallest spark of hope is enough to ignite change, and in time, man’s passion, resourcefulness, and ingenuity led them to the tools that would help even the odds) by uniting for a "common purpose" (when banded together, unified by a common enemy, they are a noticeable threat).
he also echoes the closing passage of ‘the shallow sea’ here in naming jealousy and resentment as the problem ("And the descendants of the Humans who turned away from our god’s great gift have always carried envy in their hearts. To this day, they resent us for reminding them of what they are not and what they never can be."), which suggests he did understand exactly what salem meant when she quoted that myth in relation to the brothers—that the brothers were jealous and resentful because humankind had risen anew without them and had no need of their old masters any longer.
he’s still talking about humankind setting aside their differences and coming together, of course, but whereas in previous commentaries ozpin frames this as a difficult ideal to strive for lest we all destroy ourselves, here his tone turns hopeful: coming together is more than possible, humanity has done it before to replace the gods’ design with something greater.
gestures at until the end. "to live free, or die, it’s all the same/the enemy was right, there’s no reclaiming/in waves of shame/we’re desperate to make amends…"
the essential problem for ozma is this: by the time he becomes headmaster ozpin of beacon academy, he’s come around to salem’s thinking on the mandate, to whit that redemption is impossible and thus the only choices are to accept death or to try, once more, to fight for humanity’s freedom. yet he still believes in the infinite divine authority of the gods—he is certain that rebellion can end only in death—and moreover he believes that what he’s done is unforgivable, that it is impossible to make amends. and he is also unwilling to just give up and submit humankind as it is now to the final judgment; his hope is gone but his conscience compels him to keep trying, because he can’t bear to condemn the whole world to death.
hence the book. on its face ‘fairytales of remnant’ is a propagandistic hit piece on salem but read from cover to cover it’s also a desolate apology and plea for forgiveness: history is important and we must listen to each other, he writes in the forward. here is the story about (the witch) the warrior in the woods, who deserved more help than she was given. here is a story about a foolish man who sacrificed his wife and children to appease the cruel, fickle sun. here is the myth you quoted to me once: i didn’t understand you then, but i do now, and there is a deeper truth in this story than i knew. here is my favorite story; it’s about a huntsman who still grieves his wife and a family that finds each other again after parting ways in acrimony.
here is a story about a foolish king who destroys himself out of fear that he will make the wrong choice, and the love that saves him. here is the nightmare i have about you, told as a cautionary tale against projecting our own evil onto the face of others we fear. and here’s a story about we humans scapegoating those who were changed, hating and fearing our own loved ones because they do not look the same. here is a story about me, and my failures, and the girl whose trust i shattered, and i will leave it to you to decide if i am worthy of forgiveness. here’s the story that tore us apart; the only good ending i can imagine anymore is the one where humanity replaces the gods. and this story is about my grief, my despair, and why i keep trying.
and here is a story about you, and the hero i was before all of this; look far enough ahead, and the hero becomes a villain, but hopefully the reverse can be true, too. here is a story about humanity coming together to replace and perfect our god-given gifts; maybe we can’t be fixed, but we could start over. i keep telling these stories because i am afraid and uncertain and i want to believe that all of it really mattered.
like beacon tower, built in the image of her prison, the book is a cry for help hidden between the lines of a hollow condemnation. in the thousands of years between then and now, he’s corrupted "the gods will return to rule over us all" into "the gods will be remade in our image," because ozma doesn’t want to save the world unless she can still be in it.
and #2, ozma says the quiet part out loud.
"if you demand our blessings while still fighting among yourself," the god of light tells him, "mankind will be found irredeemable."
take these words at face value, and the divine mandate doesn’t actually sound unreasonable: mankind mustn’t approach the gods with a sense of entitlement, and they should try to cooperate with each other and work through conflict peacefully. that’s within the realm of difficult, but not impossible. but…
taken into context as the divine answer to salem’s defiance and the rebellion against the gods, his true meaning is that mankind must come together in obedient submission to their creators, repudiating salem and all she stands for. it is her "selfishness and arrogance" for which all of humanity stands condemned.
ozma grasps this. i’d wager he understood it the moment salem told him of the rebellion and why the gods ended their "experiment" the first time. and so his telling of the task he’s been given is more honest: humanity must "find a way to destroy the evil in the world and in themselves" to prove worthy.
in ‘the two brothers,’ the "evil in the world" is explicitly the grimm, whom the god light disdains as unliving creatures formed from malice and hate for no purpose but "destroying all that is good in the world." the god of darkness protests that the grimm are more than that, chiding his brother to remember that they are the same. and the brothers made humans by combining their natures into one being, just as dark made grimm and light made animals by "[giving] their essence to their creations."
what then does it mean for humans to "destroy the evil in the world and in themselves"? keep in mind that the humans in the myth do not do anything even notionally wrong: the brothers go to war with each other and "wreak havoc," and terrified humans "prayed to their gods and asked if they were being punished, […] asked for forgiveness, […] begged for mercy." this is mankind’s sole participation in the divine feud, crying out to the gods in anguish why are we being punished? (COUGHS IN JOB.)
in ozma’s account of this story, there is no wrongdoing, no sin to redeem—no justification for humanity to be condemned. instead, the brothers attempt to go their separate ways and find that they can’t, having given too much of themselves to their creations to leave the world, so darkness suggests that they take back their gifts, "reclaim our power and wipe this experiment from existence." no no, says light, we should give them a chance to prove worthy first.
so it is clear—there is no ambiguity about this at all, because there is no wrongdoing—that the "evil within themselves" that humanity must find a way to destroy is darkness itself; the "essence" darkness gave them, the gifts of knowledge and destruction he blessed them with. the evil in the world is the grimm, and the evil within is the part of human nature that came from darkness.
now. ‘the two brothers’ is of course factually inaccurate, and we know (from the answer to "what is ozpin hiding?") that the omission of the whole rebellion isn’t because ozma doesn’t know about it—he does. he knows. rather, the rebellion is something he actively chose to hide.
why?
the mythical narrative deliberately elides the divine justification for condemning mankind to death in favor of emphasizing the pettiness and indifference of the brothers toward their creations—they intend to destroy humans for no other reason than to regain their former power—and also making a direct equivalence between grimm (the evil in the world) and dark’s gifts to humanity (the evil within), both of which mankind must find a way to destroy in order to appease the god of light. the absurdity of this is underscored by darkness’ explicit admiration for human resilience and resourcefulness in the face of adversity; he’s fascinated by their use of his brother’s gifts, choice and creation.
this is, again, not secret. this is a book that ozpin published and made the cornerstone of the huntsmen academies’ curriculum; ‘the two brothers’ as recounted here is a mainstream, widely-known religious story. ozma is the one who established this religion in the first place, and he’s had thousands of years to nudge the doctrine in the direction he wants it to go.
which is I Stand With My Damned Wife. lol
ozma didn’t believe salem when she "blamed the end of the world" on the gods, but once she told him about her rebellion—as she must have, for him to know about it—he agreed with her that she had done no wrong. the story he has been telling about the brothers all this time is one that casts mankind as innocent victims crying out for mercy, for forgiveness, blaming themselves for the cruelty inflicted upon them by uncaring gods. "the desperate humans prayed to their gods and asked if they were being punished."
in his heart of hearts, this is what he believes. that salem is blameless. that she didn’t deserve this. that she’s right.
he could save the world by uniting the whole world against her and calling on the brothers to condemn her, but he can’t—not only because this world just isn’t as dear to him without her but also because to do so would be a grave injustice, and he knows it.
he doesn’t believe that the final judgment can be averted, and he believes a second rebellion is as doomed to failure as her first attempt. the only salvation for remnant lies in destroying salem—who is the evil in the world (grimm) and the evil within (defiance, easily swaying the hearts of men)—but, she cannot be destroyed.
which gives him time.
ozpin doesn’t have a plan for defeating salem. that’s not the same thing as having no plan at all, necessarily, and salem believes he does have a plan.
gestures at "we shall once again live among you and humanity will be made whole" transforming into "we will take their forms and live among them as equals." and the gift of the moon. and "if you look far enough ahead, even a story with a happy ending may reveal itself as a tragedy, and heroes may turn out to be villains… hopefully, the reverse is also true."
(ozma’s character in ‘the girl in the tower’ is called The Hero. ozpin isn’t referring to her, there, but to himself.)
he’s… trying is maybe too strong a word, but ozpin wants to achieve salem’s preferred outcome (humanity replaces the gods) without a rebellion; ‘the shallow sea’ contains deep truths, he writes, and in ‘the judgment of faunus’ he remarks that faunus depict the god of animals as a "wise and noble" figure while humans portray them as an untrustworthy trickster. in the context of the theological disagreement between salem and ozma, ‘the shallow sea’ becomes an allegory for her opinion of the brothers—she rhetorically positions the people of remnant as the faunus, herself as the god of animals, and the brothers as the envious, resentful humans who refused to leave the boat.
in ‘the judgment of faunus’ a god offers to adjudicate between a group of humans and animals who cannot resolve their feud. if they can’t live in peace, they warn both sides, they will "kill one another off, and perhaps destroy the world in the process." when they agree, the god combines them into one being—the faunus.
in ‘the two brothers,’ the gods of light and darkness are portrayed as two halves of a sundered being, the primordial dragon, who—like the humans and animals in ‘judgment’—are "more alike than [they] realize" but "have grown to see only the worst in each other." they create humanity in an effort to resolve their feud, combining their natures into one being, but this fails to stop the conflict between them. their battle "wreaked havoc" and threatened to "tear the world apart." in the end they agree that, should humanity prove worthy, they will shed their divinity and become mortal men; otherwise, they will "let them burn" and part ways from each other forever.
in… other words, in ozma’s myth, it falls to humanity to decide the brothers’ fates: will they be changed into something new and so find peace, or will they be driven apart forever, destroying themselves and their world?
gestures at ‘the judgment of faunus.’ a god happens upon the bloody battlefield and asks why are you fighting?
gestures at ‘the two brothers.’ desperate humans cry out to the gods why are you punishing us?
gestures at ‘the shallow sea,’ which salem used allegorically to equate the brothers to envious, resentful humans who rejected the chance they were given to change and heal, and so returned to their previous unfulfilling lives. with herself implicitly positioned as the god of animals. this one, ozpin suggests, contains deep truths that everyone should take the time to consider.
looks into the camera like i’m on the office.
he includes ‘the shallow sea’ to represent salem’s theological argument against the divine mandate and offers ‘the judgment of faunus’ as a counterpoint, following the pattern of her allegory: the animals and humans represent the gods of light and darkness, and the unnamed god represents humanity (or perhaps just ozma, mirroring salem’s self-identification with the god in ‘the shallow sea’). i can end your conflict if you agree to let me choose who is right, says the god. (and is that not the intent of the mandate, in the end? for humanity to side with the god of light against his brother, for whom salem is only a proxy? to choose which brother is right?) and then the god’s answer is "neither. both. you are the same."
the primordial dragon and the division of the two brothers is made up. it’s not true. but ozpin chose that version of the story and paired it with the ending where the brothers promise to make peace by becoming human, by combining their natures within themselves and thus restoring their true nature as One Whole, light-and-dark and dark-and-light.
which is ozma’s plan.
or at least, it’s what he thinks might be the answer, even if he isn’t quite sure how to make it happen.
the god in ‘judgment’ is either wise and noble or a duplicitous trickster, not to be trusted, depending who you ask, says ozpin. the only way to unite the world to the brothers’ satisfaction is by destroying salem—removing her from it completely. salem can’t be destroyed… but.
but.
the brothers are fallible. she had lied to them, turned them against each other…
they can be deceived. tricked.
ozma is so fucking good at lying. he drove her into exile, erased her from history. what few people there are who know about her are sworn to secrecy and dedicated to keeping her at bay. if the gods had returned one year before the story began, what would they see? an elaborate performance of unprecedented global peace ruled by a powerful, benevolent cult of the light dedicated solely to slaying grimm for the good of all, with salem barred from participation in civilization, completely ostracized and forgotten.
it doesn’t matter if it’s fake. it only needs to last long enough to fool the brothers while ozma convinces them that he can settle their feud once and for all, if only they grant him the power to make it so and promise to abide by his judgment.
if he can trick them into giving up their power and becoming mortal men, then Everything Will Be Okay. it squares the circle, fulfills his god-given task without sacrificing salem to appease them or sacrificing humanity in a futile act of defiance. but it will only work if the deception is absolutely perfect and that brings him right back to square one, he needs there to be no perceptible conflict in the world when the brothers return lest they rule against humanity and he needs salem to be truly gone—not the common enemy everyone in the world stands against, but gone, so thoroughly rejected and forgotten that she has no presence in the world at all.
aaand the only way to accomplish that is by legitimately fulfilling his task, at least superficially. world peace, no salem, the leading power in every kingdom is a virtuous institution inculcating light’s values in noble warriors who protect the peace. it can collapse like the house of cards it truly is as soon as the brothers have taken the bait and shed their divinity but until then, it has to be so real that even oz himself believes it.
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joshuamj · 1 year
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I want to see my boys RWBY :(( Like ngl, they're the only reason i still keep up with the show...
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raimagnolia · 3 months
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Someone brought this up but I wasn't able to refind the post again.
It's just really weird that the last volume of RWBY winds up being something that is, like... completely unrelated to the rest of RWBY
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constantvariations · 2 months
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If Salem obliterated Vale, does that mean she has its relic?
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hiraganasakura · 2 months
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I'm ill over the extended RWBY V9 epilogue.. I'M ILL [POSITIVE]
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I swear it's legitimately insane being someone who likes Ozpin in the RWBY fandom
Cause like. At this point I swear it's comparable to saying you like Valentino from Hazbin Hotel on tiktok. Even though he's probably the most interesting character in rwby lol
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maripr · 1 year
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I would like to give a coherent writing about the episode as opposed to the screeching I've done on Twitter for the past... Hours?? But i don't think i can still.
Some Ozpin and Oscar related thoughts:
Neo's take on Ozpin is so ooc it hurts more than everyone else bc his first interaction with Ruby is giving her cookies. What he does with broken children is FEED THEM BC FOOD MAKES EVERYTHING BETTER. But. We have seen him pissed off to the point of shouting and it was against Hazel in vol 5. I think the surefire way to make Ozpin this royally pissed off would be using him against his students, which is what hazel did in vol 5 and what neo is doing here, so she's VERY lucky that Oscar didn't fall along with all the others.
Anyway i also happen to think that the only person he would actually be this violent in action and words is himself. I bet this very image of being gruesomely beaten down and berated by him happens regularly in his mind, except he's both the executioner and the victim. And maybe, in his darkest thoughts, Oscar accidentally dies because of him, same as Ruby's fears.
Or maybe Ozma imagines all the reincarnates taking turns beating and insulting him for what he did to them and their families. Point is, Neo may have accidentally performed a perfectly characterized Ozpin, but not against the correct person.
SO UHM i watched my fave violently beating down his future daughter in law to the point she bled, how are you all?
It's also!!! Delicious!!! That he's not just someone Ruby cares about and feels responsible for his death!!! And also someone she resents, but not bc OH OZPIN'S SO EVIL SHE HATES HIM BC HE'S EVIL, but because... The entire volume... Has been very subtly implying she's as afraid of Oscar experiencing ego death in the merge than he himself is (and then she CHOOSES to experience ego death herself at the end. "I don't want to be me anymore"). Holy cow. If you had told me that before vol 9, i would have replied "look rosegarden is my otp too but that feels a bit like reaching" and IT'S NOT. And Neo has used him against Ruby TWICE. And accidentally killing him after slashing at Ozpin can be read in so many fucked up levels and it's what finally break her????
This episode was just so brutal but in a way that i personally found exceptionally intriguing. I love this kind of horror. This couldn't have been possible if not in the ever after. I got to see my oz Bois again and Ozpin's maya model finally being put to use, and Shannon actually shouting in his voice, but at what cost, but it was perfect.
Also glad they finally gave the man his lips back. I was wondering where they went after vol 2. Thank you Neo. Also, for giving Oscar his melanin back.
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twilektrekkie · 9 months
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You know what's confusing as hell? Experiencing gender envy but also being attracted to the person causing said envy
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sugarspikesart · 11 months
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Do you guy's think people will someday realize that Ozpin is *not* a villain even if he lied because let's be honest what other option was there. And salem wasn't evil, she turned evil because of the Brothers and the Salem situation is more of a (i'm desperate and selfish and If i have to be the badguy to get what i want i will get it + so many years of suffering have gotten me COMPLETELY detached of human emotions and bonds and I do not care about anyone at this point)
Like, the story of Ozma and Salem is tragic for both of them
And I understand people say Salem is evil and a villain because at this point of the story she completely is
BUT OZPIN BEING A VILLAIN???
Come on. Come the fuck on.
He was desperate and he never was a omnipotent being, he was just a guy who got thrown in this shithole by *gasp* the brothers!!
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maskyartist · 1 year
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For the lil oz doodle prompts. Him being upset and comforted by Qrow, maybe?
[I know, I'm a massively convincing anon...]
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you can make it whatever scenario you'd like i just know i wanted more self indulgent beacon days content :)
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aspennntree · 2 months
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listen listen i need to say this to you because it’s about ozpin but
in volume 3 when he’s trying to transfer the maiden power to pyrrha he says he needs to hear her say yes and gives her a chance to back out (not a real chance, really. but a chance)
and in the lore dump episode we see that the god of light just. immediately accepted that ozma said ok and didn’t even like. have a chance to think about it
there’s something about those two events i’m drawing a line between…… homeboy is Trying to be better and Failing So Bad but he is Trying
HES TRYING TO MAKE SURE NOBODY IS IN THE SAME SITUATION…AUGH,,,he’s trying so hard
because nobody should have to go through something like that without considering it and having a chance to back out, because he didn’t really have a proper choice
BUT HE CANT GIVE EVERYONE A CHOICE BECAUSE OSCAR WAS THROWN INTO THIS WITH NO AGENCY WHATSOEVER AND AUGH IM DYING MY POOR BOY(s)
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faultsofyouth · 3 months
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Making my nonbinary watch RWBY and they are invested and also during season 4 they were like "how many people thought ironwood was going to be a bad guy when he was first introduced" and I had to sit there like 👀
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strqyr · 2 years
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whenever there's a chance to ask crwby questions my mind always goes blank... and the rest of the time my mind is buzzing with questions like what the hell do the entrance exams entail? is it different types of combat, like one vs grimm, the other vs human opponents? written exams? interviews? all of these, or just some of them?
it's a cursed existence, really.
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the-god-of-nihon · 8 months
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Because it still apparently needs to be said
The Merge isn't a takeover. Oscar doesn't get erased, Ozpin doesn't assimilate Oscar.
The whole point is the two personalities finding balance and influencing each other to grow.
The end goal is an individual, in this case Ozcar, that has the memories, traits and positive qualities of both Oscar and Ozpin. Because balance and unity is kind of the whole point in RWBY.
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