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tobiasdrake · 19 days

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Which version of Broly do you think has the better character design?

This is a funny question to get right after shit-talking Toei in that last one because DBS: Broly is both the best Dragon Ball movie ever made and one of the best characters in Dragon Ball.

I love New Broly so fucking much. And his character design slaps.

I know the point was to differentiate him from the Planet Trade characters since Broly's never served in the PTO; He was banished before he ever became a Saiyan warrior proper. So he doesn't wear the standard Frieza armor that all the Saiyan and other PTO crew are dressed in.

But this design makes him look like he's here to dance for your entertainment. It gets better when he transforms; Half of the jewelry he's dressed decorated in are restraining bolts meant to control and contain him. So it's a little less gaudy once he breaks free.

That's better. He's still decorated in an awful lot of gold and jewels which is like.

Like. There's a reason I'm saying "decorated in" and not "dressed in", because Broly's whole deal is that he's a slave. There are two kinds of people who dress in this much gold and jewelry: Royalty and servants. Royalty chooses to wear it; Servants are decorated in it. Broly is explicitly decorated in it, as half of his jewelry is a control mechanism forced on him by his father.

But Broly is also supposed to be the main villain. His father is restraining and controlling him, but Broly himself is an unstoppable Saiyan beast who serves as the main nemesis and threat of the film. This character design speaks to a more sympathetic character than the Z film presents.

This look doesn't hit "Monster? No. I am THE DEVIL!!!" vibes for me.

This lands way better for me.

He's got the PTO armor because in this continuity, Broly was recruited by Frieza early in the film. He still has a restraining bolt but it's around his neck, looking (and acting) as a shock collar, as if he were dog. This is a much easier concept for conveying Broly's abuse than the psychic manipulation and emotional influence crown/armbands.

And. There's. The ear that he has tied around his waist. What a fantastic piece of character design.

Ba's ear, which Broly shares a heartbreaking anecdote about in the film, is a critical piece of his backstory and it directs the tone of the conversation the film wants to have about this character. Where the Z film treated Broly as a sort of an abused and sympathetic victim but ALSO AND MORE IMPORTANTLY a vile monster who we should hate and want destroyed, DBS picks the other lane.

As the fight wears on, Broly breaks free of the restraining bolt. He also sheds the PTO armor that Frieza put on him. He breaks free from the identity that's been imposed on him by others.

But the ear remains. The one piece of his character design that is truly his own, the heart of his character, he never sheds. Even as he loses control, even as the berserk rage of the Super Saiyan seizes his senses, he carries Ba and his desire to be loved and accepted by others with him always.

#dragon ball #dragon ball z #dragon ball super #broly

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fanfic-lover-girl · 6 months

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DBZ Thoughts: Yamcha Deserved Better

So I got into Dragonball because I grudgingly watched Kai on Nicktoons with my brother. My complaints became faker as the Frieza saga thickened and before I knew it, I fell in love with the series. Sometime later, I discovered Dragonball and watched that series as well. I think I watched GT after DB.

Since I watched DBZ first, I cared little for the human characters. I liked Piccolo because of his relationship with Gohan. And I enjoyed Krillin in the Namek/Frieza saga and I felt sad when he died. But I didn't really CARE. Tien and Yamcha were afterthoughts. I thought Chiaotzu was lame and a waste of space. All I cared about were the Saiyans.

But then I watched Dragonball and I fell in love with the human characters. So much magic and wonder. I like DBZ but Dragonball hits differently.

Anyway, I liked Yamcha. Was never a huge fan but I have really begun to feel sorry for the guy especially since my love for Vegebul has kind of faded a bit. I admit that even in the height of my Vegebul fanfic days as a teenage girl, I felt super uncomfortable or annoyed reading fics where Yamcha was painted as a loser, abuser or cheater. I hated how fanfic writers treated Yamcha like trash to make Vegeta look better. People out here trying to make Yamcha into a monster to make Vegeta, the guy who beat on Gohan in the previous two sagas and killed a village of Namekians with sadistic glee, look good :(. Now that I look back on it, I was reading trash!

Intro aside, I wanted to reflect on some ways that Yamcha could have been treated better in the series (DB and DBZ). I think Yamcha is a great character already and he does not need to be a bloodthirsty Saiyan to be amazing...but just some small things that could give him some more wins.

Dragonball: Yamcha vs Tien as the semi-finals fight

Yamcha's fight showcased Tien's cruelty. Roshi's fight symbolized the older generation being surpassed by the younger. But would the story change all that much if the fights were switched? Give Yamcha a chance to make it to the semis and use it as a storytelling device to show that Yamcha is catching up to Roshi as well. I think the story could have been even stronger if Tien was shown to surpass the older generation but then showed his cruelty.

DBZ: Bulma & Yamcha's breakup ending more amicably

I HATE how many Vegebul fans treat Yamcha. Yamcha is a good man and Bulma was always the abusive and unfaithful one in the relationship. I was not a huge Bulma fan in DB. Honestly, I don't think I truly liked Bulma until she got with Vegeta and became a mom. Anyway, why is it necessary to paint Yamcha as a cheater to pave the way for Vegebul? There are many ways for people to break up! The breakup could be a mutual thing where they decide they are better as friends (just look at their sibling vibe in the Buu saga). Maybe Future Trunks' arrival causes Yamcha to be more insistent on marriage and family and Bulma does not feel ready for the commitment. Maybe Yamcha walks away because he can't stand Bulma being friendly with the guy responsible for his murder. So many ways to paint Yamcha, and even Bulma, in a better light so that Yamcha does not look like the loser beta male who lost in the love triangle.

#pro yamcha #yamcha deserved better #dragon ball #dbz #dragon ball z #vegebul #anti vegebul fanfiction #vegebul critical #yamcha #yamcha vs tien shinhan #yambul #bulma briefs #vegeta #android saga #22nd World Martial Arts Tournament #tien shinhan #dbz thoughts #yambul breakup

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pitchouna · 24 days

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Meeting Goku x reader headcanons!!

(It's an AU where Chi-chi doesn't meet Goku because I love my girl and I simply hate angst.)

May be ooc since it's my first time writing </3 but overall it's just Fluff!!

Haven't checked for any spelling mistakes I'm too lazy.

Okay so I've recently became a Goku simp and Dragon Ball lover, and I've noticed there's little to no works about him. Which surprised me with how popular the DB series are. Anyways we'll talk about this another time let's begin!!

To Begin, you and Goku met during the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament where you both fought.

Even though you were beaten easily, Goku was amazed to find a strong woman for the first time. He immediately fell in love. (he's too dumb to figure it out and needed Krillin's help.)

Which lead him to ask to train and spar together when you'd both be free. So like everyday.

But of course it wasn't enough interaction for our lovely saiyan so Krillin's helped his best bud having dates ideas such as going to the beach together, going on restaurants (sadly you're the one paying

You two even nap together!!

As you guys may know, this man has got no experience about what personal space means.

So don't be surprised if you get trapped in a hug randomly if you guys nap together!!

No matter how far your beds are he'll randomly find a way to stick with you.

Of course there are some days where Goku may piss you off..

For exemple, when he asks too many dumb questions that your brain just want to disconnect.

Or when you simply don't want to train yet Goku doesn't understand why since training is literally all his life so he could be overwhelming without knowing it.

So you see theses excuses we use when we're too lazy to go out with friends? That was your first thought.

You'll sick to not train since it's the only way to escape training you found yet.

With how dumb he is, you could easily avoid the senzu beans solution.

Unless someone reminds him about it... ( Either it's Krillin, Yamcha etc... )

When learning who told him about it you'll always have a grudge against them.

You'll always be able to count on Bulma though!! Since she knows how men could be such a pain.

Y'all are besties forever and goes shopping at least once in the month (She's such a generous BFF she'll pay for everything)

You both always gossip.

However, Goku hates the days when you go hang out with Bulma.

He's just so bored.. Even if he can train, nap and eat as much as he'd like which is supposed to be his favourite hobbies it won't help..

He just has the need urge to see you!!

So sometimes, when he knows where you and Bulma hangs out, he'll randomly pop up out of nowhere with the Nimbus cloud.

Disappointed, Bulma still gets the message and sometimes will leave you two alone.

"Huh leaving already Bulma? You usually stay longer!" You exclaimed confused as why she was packing up so early.

"Sorry n/n! I just remembered I have a special meeting with some scientists!! Here's the money to pay for the addition. See ya!!" Bulma said in a rush as she left too much money on the table.

"Hold on Bulma you-" You were about to yell so she could take the money back before Goku interrupted you, putting a hand on your shoulder.

"It's too late Y/n she's already gone now! Why don't you accept the money?" Goku said with his usual innocent which made you sigh in disbelief. Yet you didn't felt like scolding him right now you were too tired.

"I hope you don't want us to spar or train right now.. I'm too lazy." You mumbled with an irritated voice not wanting to deal with that right now.

"Heheee.. I just wanted to see you!!" Goku chuckled with his usual goofy smile that you started to like so much (But you didn't wanted to admit it yet...)

"You interrupted me and Bulma for that?.."

"But she has to go anyways!!"

"... Fair point."

Too lazy to argue further you just decided to let him win only this time. Since it was very late and you are the laziest person ever.

"Oh!" You heard Goku yell and wondered what that was about.

"Hm? What's up?" You asked him wanting to know what's on his mind.

"How about I take you on a ride home on the Nimbus? We'll get to watch the stars together!!" Goku said patting the Yellow cloud beside him.

"I guess I wouldn't mind..." You said as a small smile appears on your face.

Knowing that only pure-hearted people can go on it you decided to put a hand on the Nimbus and not to your surprise it went through it. Goku seemed very surprised though.

"How? You're one of the kindest person I know!!" Goku frowned wondering why that didn't work but you just chuckled at how innocent and cute dumb he was.

"That's not how it works Goku.."

"How does it works then?"

"I'll explain you another day. I'm too lazy right now... But what do we do now??

After your question, Goku put a hand on his chin thinking about a solution. He found it faster that what you were expecting.

" What about you get on my lap?" Goku said smilling innocently which made you blush.

"Why are you all red so suddenly Y/n??" You just brush it off not wanting to break his innocence of the poor guy.

"Just forget it alright? I'll go on your lap."

Goku chuckles in happiness hearing this. He wasted no time sitting on the Nimbus cloud and putting you on his lap.

He also took the opportunity to place his chin on your head. Which made you blush a little.

"Ready Y/n ?" Goku said Holding your waist. Too lazy as always you just nodded with a hum.

The Nimbus started to make it's way towards your home, as you took the opportunity to watch the beauty of the sky.

Goku smiled at your amazement, he found you so cute.

" Like what you're seeing Y/n?" Goku asked, his happiness obvious in his voice.

However, he heard nothing.

"Y/n ??" Goku asked looking at you just to find you asleep.

Oh well... He was already happy having you in his arms

He made a big detour to enjoy this moment even if you were sleeping.

Oh my god this took much longer than expected... The way I decided to randomly write headcanons out of nowhere instead of finishing my homeworks is wild. I hope y'all will like this!! If not I'll probably kms but it was very fun to write though!!

Will maybe do that another time if I don't forget this account 😭😭

Take care <33

#goku x reader #son goku #goku imagine #goku #dbz goku #dbz #dbs #dragon ball #kakarot #elysia

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secretsofdbz · 3 months

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Alright, timelines. (link to my old post)

Today I'm going to walk you through the cluster fuck of Toriyama not paying attention to what he writes from the Trunks arc to the epilogue of the Perfect Cell arc.

Reminder that I divide the "Android Saga" in 4 arcs:

Trunks arc (arrival of Frieza to 3yg training),

Android arc (until the time machine is discovered)

Imperfect Cell arc (until Cell absorbs 18)

Perfect Cell arc (+ epilogue of Trunks killing imperfect Cell)

I will also pull Toei and Daizenshu content if needed just to show how bad it gets, BUT that's just to enhance my argument. Everything here is manga-deductible without extra context or content.

As I've shown in the link above, the manga implies 4 timelines:

Forgotten timeline (Cell kills Trunks and steals his time machine),

Lost timeline (the timeline that dead!Trunks traveled to, which did not have a Cell pop in the middle of its Android Saga, otherwise Trunks would've known about Cell),

Future Timeline (the one we know and see, Trunks traveled to a uni where Cell traveled to first, so there's changes and Cell pops up in the Android saga),

Main Timeline (the one we know and follow, to which Cell and Trunks traveled to),

Let's go into details about dates and math and everything first. (under the read more because LONG)

When Future Trunks discovers dead!Trunks' time machine, he states that it comes from age 788, which is 3 years from where he comes from (which means he comes from 785), and that the Machine landed here "4 years ago". 4 years ago was about one year before Trunks first came (aka one year before Meca Frieza stuff).

During the first trip, Trunks states he comes from 20 years into the future.

That means during his first trip, he went from 784/785 to 764.

We also know he's 17 at this point and "will be born in 2 and a half years"

(Baby Trunks is supposed to be ~6 months old by May 12th, 767, so "I warn in 764, I'll be born in 2.5 years, so I was born in 766" works. Ignoring the wikis about Trunks' birthday being June and Future Trunks' birthday being in November, it doesn't matter here, we just need the years))

For Trunks to be 17 during his first trip, he needs to travel from 784 (before his 18th birthday). So by the time he comes back the second time, it needs to be in 785 (so he is 18!); since it takes 8 months to charge the machine (Trunks the Story manga chapter), that works out.

So in terms of trips, we have:

Trunks (both versions) : (early-mid) 784 to 764

Trunks (both versions): (early-ish) 785 to May 12th 767

Cell: 788 to 763

(handy recap sheet)

At the time, for Toei, there were only two Timelines (aka it was both multiverse theory AND dynamic time travel theory, because Trunks becoming aware of Cell who killed him means Trunks isn't killed by Cell... yeah it's all sorts of EHH ??):

Anyway, you'd think this would be fine right? The image of Cell killing Trunks while he still had his sword (which he shouldn't since he broke it on 18's arm he never used it again in canon) is anime filler, we're all good.

Except... no. This fucking panel right here. Cell explains "(the machine/bots collecting dna) could've gotten Trunks cells but didn't because we had enough Saiyan cells".

Cell supposedly comes from a timeline where GOKU killed Frieza and Cold. But this god forsaken panel contradicts that. (of course it's just that Tori forgot, but we are DB fans, we take things seriously and word of god of the manga is supreme and can't be wrong)

This means that THIS particular version of Cell doesn't come from the Forgotten Timeline.

The Cell we know and love/hate comes from a timeline in which a future Trunks killed Frieza and Cold, BUT everything still went to shit (Goku + gang dying, dead!Trunks traveling to the past, and coming back to destroy the Androids).

In this timeline, Bulma met Future Trunks (who killed Cold and Frieza) in 764, presumably the gang got all the warnings like in the main timeline, but everyone STILL died. So she invented the Time Machine to send her Trunks to the past (perhaps with different instructions so as to not repeat the mistakes of the Future Trunks she saw 20 years prior).

Here's the thing. There is a way for this timeline to exist. You "just" gotta work on the postulate that "each time there's a time travel to the past, a new branch is created". And "if the time machine travels back in time a second time, it lands in the timeline it first branched out unless it travels back further in time". Rephrased: The "784 to 764" trip created a new branch in 764. The "785 to 767" trip landed in that new 764 branch. However the "788 to 763" trip created a whole new branch in 763.

The Time Machine that was piloted by dead!Trunks actually "traveled further back in time", creating an earlier "branch"... which is why Trunks noticed changes, including Goku's late arrival (or Frieza's earlier arrival, we don't know).

Yes, because Future Goku did not use Instant Transmission to fight Frieza and Cold. We know he didn't because Future Bulma had the coordinates where Goku landed, which is how Future Trunks got said coordinates. If Goku had IT to fight Frieza and Cold, Bulma wouldn't have known where the pod was going to land 3 hours later.

So timelines and where does Cell come from? Well you need a timeline from the Branch that started in 764 (with a Future Trunks' arrival to kill Frieza and Cold) but in which everyone died to the Androids, and in which, when Trunks traveled back home, he was able to destroy the Androids...

Anyway here's my final recap of all the timelines in Z, in which "one time travel is one interference creating a new branch". And this is how we can see where Cell comes from :D

This opens a realm of possibilities!!

Did a version of Trunks stay in the past, during his first trip and got a wish to Shenron to have a way to destroy his androids, so he didn't come back in 767 and didn't grow strong at all? Did the future trunks that warned against the Androids but that timeline still went to shit approached the problem differently?? who knows! Time for fanfics and doujins I guess :D

Peace!

#time travel #dragon ball #dragon ball z #von rambles #future trunks #future goku #future bulma #time machine #dbz #db #bulma #timelines #obviously Toriyama just forgot and or didn't pay attention to what he was laying out but I love nitpicking and extrapolating from this stuff

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arsunorie · 2 months

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Hi! I might be late to this, but i'd really like to contribute a little bit to a certain situation happening around the analog horror community:

ALEX KISTER's allegations: the copying fetish

___________________________________________

This post refers to only that one aspect, since that's the one i can confidently talk about, and i'd like to spread awareness about the whole thing somehow.

___________________________________________

How did this come to be?

___________________________________________

On March 12, 2024, twitter user STIRRINGJUICE posted a google document, which consisted of mainly relationship problems and grooming allegations against Alex Kister, creator of The Mandela Catalogue, although there was another aspect of it which people were posting more and more about: Alex Kister made Mandela Catalogue around his fetish about impersonating people.

To be more clear, this meant that the creator got off to/felt aroused by the act or impersonating others and 'becoming' them.

However, this was mostly a misinterpretation from the community, since the only text on the og document i could find was this:

I think the first image is cropped, so i'll post the text: "Alex has a scent fetish and would specifically enjoy copying people’s poses because he wanted to pretend to be them. DB didn’t know at all."

We can point out two things about this:

- The only thing being called a fetish is the scent, only saying that he enjoys copying people's poses and pretend to be them.

- In the discord message, Alex only mentions that he would have loved taking pictures in those poses, which was only a vague example (A bad use and lack of evidence imo).

So far, this is the only text that addresses this at all, the rest are just: 60% accuser's shitty relationship, and 40% the grooming allegations.

Now, i'd like to imagine that users mixed scent fetish, with copying people, and got the "Copying fetish", like in these posts:

(Don't send hate to anyone here, i will erase names if asked!)

We can agree that this is a misinterpretation of the document, because of users assuming that, if Alex Kister has a copying fetish, then TMC must be a fantasy about it! (And i don't blame them, it's logical with the main themes being that demons copy people).

When i saw this, i immediately called bs, and this is the point of the post:

The Mandela Catalogue doesn't exhibit any trait of fetish work.

Why? Simple!

A very common thing in fetish work, are these two things.

Romanticize the fetish: especially for weird, and straight up illegal fetishes! They might downplay the severity, and play the scene as something normal, TMC never does this, it portrays the Alternates as terrifying because of their abilities to kill without even harming the victim physically, and their near-immortality.

In Made in Abyss, the weird scenes where the kids speak about sexual stuff is shown as a normal scene, like if it was something kids normally talk about.

Using the fetish as the main thing: this means focusing on the fetish itself and giving them too much screentime, to show them in a good light. The fetish specifically means copying another, and most of the alternates never quite copy other people perfectly, the most infamous ones are deformed, non-human appearing and most don't even copy a character we've already seen, and viceversa, we don't see much of the alternate version after we've know about the real person. (Caesar Torres and his alternate, Preacher, the scary hallway guy, and the archangel Gabriel and his Alternate, to name a few)

You might expect the fetish content focusing only on the act that involves the fetish, which leads me to my last point.

They never show an alternate actually changing into somebody else, morphing their features to look like the exact person, a fetish scene might be where the alternate is slowly morphing their features in front of the other person, to the exact same traits in front of them.

A few more points:

Mark Heathcliff, the character interpreted by Alex Kister himself, doesn't really have it's own Alternate, 'Caesar' only becoming him after Mark dies, and only like a frame, i feel like someone with that fetish would insert themselves more? I'm not sure how to explain.

If the story was about the fetish, i don't think the series would even have the biblical references.

To back up my previous point, the inspiration of Mandela Catalogue is about the creator's existential crisis with Christianity, Covid, Local58, and the Walten Files, cited by both Wikpedia and an interview.

(So sorry for taking a photo, i really struggle with my phone)

And that's all i have! If you have any more evidence or points, feel free to know and i'll add them! Any criticism is welcomed, since this is my first post and i'm not an english speaker! I know it might be weird since i'm never active and i don't post about TMC, but i just had to support this thing somehow, thank you!

#alex kister #the mandela catalogue #alex kister drama #alex kister callout #tmc #analog horror #analog #mandela catalogue #drama

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peach-fiz · 6 months

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I actually didn't even bother watching the second season of Loki because of the cheap marketing and inconsistent storytelling.

It just felt like the plot was lifted off somewhere it would have made sense, and a character with a similar ego was replaced with Loki and goes through an arc that might have made sense for a blank slate character, but not someone who already has a backstory.

Loki doesn't even feel like Loki after three episodes in S1. The whole point of having a show like that just seems to be about the TVA and Sylvie.

Also the whole genderfluid thing. They 'confirmed' it in the promo and had a line in the script that went completely against anything they just said.

I knew at once that the writers, directors and other parts of production were really just pulling it in different directions and it would probably sound like a jazz trumpeter and a metal guitarist trying to improvise after knowing each other for 15 minutes.

I've been meaning to watch it just so I can have educated opinions on all of it but it's just,, so hard to get into. I definitely agree the marketing was cheap, they did with the 80s McDonald's like they did DB Cooper!Loki and made it centric to the advertising because McDonalds was also getting something out of it which is kinda ass seeing as realistically Loki Laufeyson would burn 6 of them down before he ate in one 😭

I personally don't like either of the major ships in the show but the forced Sylki shit in season 1 really got to me. Like not only did she completely replace him as the main character in HIS show, she's also a variant of him who he wants to make out with and overall it just reads as lazy writing and it's extremely disappointing that Mike Waldron has been put in charge of Multiverse of Madness and The Kang Dynasty since, due to the popularity of the Loki TV show. I was talking to my boyfriend about this last night but it kinda reminds me of the complaints people had ab the last Indiana Jones movie but opposite? Like everyone complained his best friend's daughter was gonna replace him bc she's a Mary Sue and she rlly isnt, she's more reminiscent of Marion in Raiders of the Lost Ark she just doesn't wanna fuck him. But the difference is Indy is a character who's majorly blank for little boys to project themselves onto. Which is great!! It works for those kind of movies, but they're not character development centric like the individual mcu movies tend to be. Loki is characterized in a way that he's drowning in identity issues and family problems and he experiences growth in every installment whether it be positive or negative. It doesn't make sense to take the formula of an Indidna Jones movie where he meets up with a woman who's typically a love interest and has her own issues that are only slightly touched on because that's not the focus, and they go do the plot.

Sylvie is not an Indy Girl, they straight up are trying to replace Loki with Sylvie. And you can tell the character wasn't supposed to have as much importance as she does in the show bc the character was worked on more after the actress they chose was buddies with a producer ( and this is no hate to the actress I'm sure she's delightful everything I've seen her in in terms of interviews has been lovely ).

I also absolutely agree they should've just made a tva mini series to introduce the tva rather than bringing back a dead character who soon will not make much sense anyway because Tom Hiddleston is getting older (and also he deserves to branch out in his career).

The genderfluid thing was a cash grab and it sucks ass, they just want money for acknowledging things already canon in the comics, same with confirming him as bisexual.

My boyfriend is actually writing a fic on ao3 called Find Me that's rlly good if you want Loki content that isn't related to the show.

(YES this is shameless promotion sshhhhshshsh) but fr the loki TV show makes me more confident in my screenwriting bc t h a t got put on disney plus. I'm also working on a Loki show rewrite in my spare time!!

#kid loki #loki (marvel)#loki and thor #loki laufeyson #anti loki show #anti lokius #lokius #anti sylki #tom hiddleston #screenwriting #fic rec #loki fic #logyn #logyn fanfic #mike waldron #peachy rants #long post

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omegatheimmortaldragonborn · 4 months

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Character Study: Idolaf Battle-Born

Because I'm tired of seeing how quickly people kill him off, let's see if I can get myself to understand why you would OR show you why you shouldn't.

Feel free to request a character study in my ask box! It will help me keep track of them!

Neurological traits & Personality

There's a good chance he's neurodivergent, please bare with as I'm using my own experiences with this.

This isn't to say this is how all ND people act, although I shouldn't have to clarify that

He has a strong sense of justice - we see this with the imperial legion, he's a very strong supporter

He seems to lack the ability to feel empathy - eg. When talking to Fralia at the market (this isn't to say this applies to all ND people, as some experience quite the opposite)

While this could be just the voice acting, his voice lacks emotion (which i personally struggle with)

He doesn't actually seem to hate the Gray-Manes, only their choice in support. There's no dialogue in game where he insults or "drags" any of the family members. While yes, he can say he wants to throw Avulstein in jail, this can be linked back to the strong sense of justice

THORALD!!! He was looking into it himself, and if your speech is high enough you can persuade him to tell you. While his reasoning is blurry, it can be presumed he asked about because of concern. He mentions that they used to be friends, no doubt close too.

He knew the risks of asking about him, and he tells us he was told to mind his business but kept pushing for an answer

He believes letting the Gray-Manes think Thorald died would've been easier than telling them that no, he's alive, held captive by the Thalmor, in a place where you don't ever come out, and probably being tortured. - sense of Justice AGAIN

He gives you the letter anyway, too!

The market scene reinforces the lack of empathy theory, and the strong sense of justice, because he clearly cared enough about Thorald to go asking about him, had his answers (worse case scenario ones too) and came to the conclusion she was better off not knowing.

I think people tend to forget he grew up around the Gray-Manes too, so he's going to know their character alot better than the DB ever will.

Fralia already seems heartbroken over him going missing, which is probably why he made the decision not to tell her.

Often considered prideful, for example - would rather bend his knee to Ulfric than ask Eorlund for help. Again though, he grew up with the Gray-Manes and so them not picking the same side he did probably hurt like a bitch. (Sense of justiceeee)

Parenting

This part is the only part where I can fully understand why people may not like him as Lars is still being bullied.

There may be multiple reasons for this

Lars hasn't told him - very unlikely though since Alfhild (Idolafs wife) knows about it but he may just be closer with her

Has a more traditional approach to it, and tries to get him to stand up to her, which is most likely as it seems to be a common theme throughout Nords in general that you handle your own problems.

He has spoken to Armen and/or Sapphia about Braiths behaviour, but nothing came of it. Which to be fair is also a decent possibility, as someone who has been bullied most of my school life, typically parental intervention never really helps 💀

Other than that, he seems to try a decent amount. He tries to keep Lars out of trouble with the guards (climbing Dragonsreach cannot be legal 💀🤣), and Lars is outside most of the day too so he probably encourages him to play with the other kids in the hold. (Maybe not braith but yknow)

Anyway, if there's something I've missed feel free to leave a reply, I'm happy to try and explain them some more! :> not that I'm expecting anyone to see this like who actually scrolls Idolaf's tag 💀

Me, I do :)

#Idolaf Battle-Born #skyrim #whiterun #i think he's very overlooked and hated #especially after that market scene #rambles #Rexus' Character Study

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textfromthelookout · 1 year

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Super is a horribly made cash grab. Something like the Dragon BallZ multiverse would've been a lot more interesting to watch.

Especially the early chapters were we see universes with diffrent "what-if's" like Friza taking over, Planet Vegeta still around, Cell or Buu winning, Goku being raised as sayin, introducing the games etc.

I especially hate how super ignores Vegeta's already established character development and makes him regress. Either they just didn't know how to write a Vegeta like that or simply didn't care.

And god Gohan got the worst treatment ever. I understand the man doesn't fight, it's not what he does and that's a great point to his character but not keeping up with his training especially after cell and buu? Is out of character. The man is smart and knows that a bigger threat can come in at any moment.

Just wanted to leave that, drink some water

Perfectly valid opinion! Nevertheless, I disagree with you, and you’ve given me an excuse to ramble on at length about Dragon Ball, so ramble on I shall.

Super is a horribly made cash grab.

I think you’re thinking of the Z movies (which, for the record, I like). A cash grab’s supposed to be something you make quickly just because you know it’ll sell, and while I’m no economist, I do know you have to follow appreciably current trends when you’re trying to make one. While you may be right, it’s hard for me to feel that something is a cash grab when there was a ten year dry spell between GT ending and anything important that was DB-related coming out—and it wasn’t even Super, it was a little festival special that a bunch of people don’t know about because it never came overseas. Battle of Gods didn’t drop until five years after that, after the first half of DBZ Kai had already wrapped up, and Super didn’t start properly until the second half of Kai finished two years later. You don’t spend seven years feeling out if people are still receptive to something after a ten-year hiatus if you’re trying to make money quickly, is all I’m saying.

Something like the Dragon BallZ multiverse would've been a lot more interesting to watch.

I’ve never read Multiverse so I leafed through the first 400-ish pages to see if I agreed with you, and I don’t. A common complaint about the Tournament of Power is that it’s the most dragged out 48 minutes in existence, and from the looks of it, Multiverse is like if Super was nothing but the Tournament of Power. To me, one of the best things about Dragon Ball is that it doesn’t have to be all high-stakes head-to-head all the time. You get things like the Orange Star High arc, or the filler episode where Piccolo and Goku have to get their driver’s licenses, or the one where Goku doesn’t quite have control over his ki for a day or so because he essentially shorted out the wiring fighting Hit (which is a cool fucking concept that I wish they had done more with). It’s just fun. It opens the door for questions that are more entertaining—and more importantly, more varied—than arguing until you’re blue in the face about who would win in a fight between X and Y.

Sure, I’ll give you that, Multiverse does knock that concept around a little. The problem is it doesn’t do much of anything with it. The setting is a character too, in its own way—arguably the most important one, since it’s the one that every other character has no choice but to interact with. You’re right, all of those what-ifs would be interesting—if they were set in the what-ifs.

Here, I’ll share one of my favorite what-ifs as an example to try and explain. What if, instead of being able to retreat back to his lab, Dr. Gero was destroyed along with 19 by Vegeta’s attack? There would be no reason to go check his lab out if the android threat is eliminated, so 17 and 18 would still be asleep. Cell would grow unhindered for 17 years, and when he hatches, he could simply go up the ladder and attain perfection without a fight. Goku wouldn’t have died at the end of the Cell Games. There would be no training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for anyone. Does Vegeta become an issue again, since his character arc stalls at the part where he’s reveling in his own power? If so, how does that resolve? How would the struggle against Cell play out if they had no warning at all that he even existed? What role would Gohan play in it—or Goten or Trunks, since they’d be old enough to be a factor? These questions and any number of others you could pose don’t even account for the fact that it entirely upsets the timeline—Buu arc would occur before Cell, if it occurs at all. Assuming it does, would they stand a chance in hell against Buu without the power they gained in Cell arc and the seven year gap? Could Cell somehow end up coming into conflict with Buu? In short—how does this change things?

Multiverse answers this with ‘who cares, where does it put you in the power-scaling?’ and that’s not compelling to me in the slightest.

I especially hate how super ignores Vegeta's already established character development and makes him regress. Either they just didn't know how to write a Vegeta like that or simply didn't care.

Define regress. If you’re referring to Vegeta retaining his determination to get stronger than Goku after the ‘you are number one’ speech, that’s. Pretty integral to his character, frankly. Just because he’s learned and accepted it’s not the end of the world if he isn’t stronger doesn’t mean he has to drop the competition entirely. I read it less as a set-in-stone declaration of Goku’s superiority, more like a concession of his own defeat. ‘You’re number one forever because you’re better than me’ vs ‘You win for now, but when the next fight rolls around, I’ll outdo you’, you feel what I’m getting at? He does show up to fight Goku in the tournament during the very end of Z, after all. My point is that it shows Vegeta’s worldview and perception of himself is more malleable now—and so, confines him far less.

As it turns out, that concept of ‘freedom’ is the direction Super chooses to develop him in, and I feel that it pairs very well with what he goes through in Z (spoilers incoming). In Z, Vegeta is restricted by The Way Things Are Supposed To Go. In Super, especially later on during Moro and Granolah, this has a natural continuation in how his past actions in the name of TWTASTG weigh on him in ways that hamper his growth. This has been one of his biggest stumbling blocks for forever—he thinks so goddamn much, he can’t get out of his own head.

His defense of the Namekians and Earth against Moro is motivated in part by Vegeta feeling obligated to right the balance, so to speak—and he says as much, even going so far as to ask Moori if he bears a grudge against him for his actions. He still considers himself a villain bound for hell. In effect, this idea that he has to atone for his sins via being the one to save the day (which essentially amounts to being stronger than Goku on some given day) has snuck in and made itself into the new Way Things Are Supposed To Go without him realizing it.

Beerus realizes, though. I couldn’t think of a way to eloquently get across what Beerus does for him short of copying down the dialogue wholesale, so fuck it, that’s what I’m gonna do, since not everyone has access to the official translation. (From ch 69)

BEERUS: How many planets have you Saiyans destroyed? VEGETA: ? Hard to say. Fighting was the only way of life for my people, so we had a way of racking up sin after sin. B: Sin, huh? V: However, it wasn’t until Freeza’s clan came along and began using us that the destruction and invasions became business as usual. B: You trying to lay all the blame for your wicked ways on Freeza and his people? V: Not in the least. In his pursuit for power, my father built his own kingdom atop countless deaths. Freeza’s clan taking control didn’t help, but the seeds of the Saiyans’ destruction were sown before that. B: So it was the Saiyans’ destiny to be wiped out, then? V: I’d say so. B: Hmph… Ridiculous. V: But never mind that. My people’s problems aren’t your concern. B: I’m saying it’s ridiculous! V: ! W-what? What do you mean? Weren’t you going to show me a technique used by Gods of Destruction?! What could that possibly have to do with the history of the Saiyans? B: Plenty. […] As long as doubt weighs down your soul, this power’ll never be yours to wield. V: D-doubt, you say? B: Your own crimes aside, you’re feeling guilty for the sins of all Saiyans. That’s awfully self-centered of you, mortal. Here’s a fun fact. The one who suggested that Freeza eliminate the Saiyans… was me. V: W… what? B: You still think it was destiny? You’re just gonna accept that? […] Everything those Saiyans did in the past… what’s it got to do with you now? As long as you’re trapped by the past, you’ll never manage to grow past this point. My mind’s always on destruction and nothing else. That’s why there’s no limit to my power. Listen. If you really want this power, you’re gonna have to destroy any stray thoughts and recreate yourself from scratch. Before creation comes destruction. Get it?

Yeah. He takes this and he intentionally divorces his efforts to get stronger from his tendency to dog Goku’s heels in leveling up. Ultra Instinct isn’t a power suited to him, so he gives it up instead of torturing himself over it and works on what eventually becomes Ultra Ego instead. Here’s the thing though. The biggest indicator of Vegeta’s growth to me is that he can’t tap fully into that power because he’s no longer callous and unfeeling, and he knows it. He identifies too much with Granolah to simply destroy him. And he tries to lead Granolah off the path that ruined him for so much of his life. That doesn’t sound anything like regression to me.

The way things stand with Goku and Vegeta right now, the next step seems to be adapting their Ultra forms to them personally, so I’m curious to see how Vegeta will bend that power to the person he is now.

You could be right, but no amount of kvetching is going to change what the writer wrote, so you may as well stretch your critical thinking legs and ask yourself why the writer thinks this is in character. Speaking from the perspective of a person who makes a hobby of examining these pieces and spackling them together into something cohesive (fanfiction. I write fanfiction, in case that was somehow unclear), this is the more fun option for me. I’m not saying it’s really That Deep (‘don’t put more thought into something than the creators did’, yak yak yadda yadda) or that my personal interpretation is correct and canon or anything, I just know that writers rarely write something a certain way without a reason.

Because you’re right, Gohan is a smart person. I don’t think he did stop training after Buu in the way you’re thinking of, for two reasons. First, he mentions at the end of Super Hero that he’s been practicing the Makankosappo in secret, and the Makankosappo took Piccolo presumably several years nonstop (between OGDB and Z) to make from scratch. Gohan may have prior knowledge to base his experimentation off of, but he has a lot less free time too, between his family and his father’s tendency to one-track-mind the things he’s passionate about—Videl says he’s been in his room working on his ant project for several days. So how long has Gohan been practicing it?

That’s rather theoretical though so, second, Gohan was ready for the Tournament of Power with 48 hours of training, which I don’t think would be possible if he wasn’t at least keeping himself physically in shape. Indeed, when Piccolo is training him (DBS episode 88), his problem is not with Gohan’s practical technique—it’s with his attitude. Freeza notices this and mentions it earlier in Resurrection F as well, that Gohan is going out of his way to leave the people he beats alive. Piccolo describes it as a failure to ‘close the deal’, in the sense that Gohan needs to be able to win in a way that leaves no room for a rematch or a sneak attack at the last second. This doesn’t necessarily mean killing, mind, especially since the Tournament of Power has a no-kill rule. What Gohan has let go to rust is his willingness to be ruthless enough to remove an obstacle that has to be removed. That, I think, is the true meaning of the ‘training’ that everyone in universe harps on him for. Gohan’s always been softhearted, after all.

I will concede that it is very stupid that he apparently doesn’t recognize Piccolo’s ki when by all rights he’s probably the person most familiar with it. I consider that ‘out of character’, in that I have no clever explanation for it, but given that it isn’t load-bearing so the story functions, I mainly shrug and ignore it. That’s the healthy thing to do.

completely forgot to say... I *hate* how bulma is now. Nothing to the bulma we saw in Z, even at her most vexing she was never like the one we see right now. Genuinely massacred her

Personally I would be angrier about Videl in your position, because boy does she just not exist in Super. More to the point, I don’t know exactly what you mean by this. Unless I’ve misremembered/misread something, Bulma is still doing what she’s done from day one. She’s still smart. She’s still willing to try using her charm to get what she wants. She still builds things that are plot-crucial (Goku Black arc couldn’t have happened without her replicating her own time machine! Which she couldn’t have done had Future Bulma not counted on her and left her own notes!) She still wants to get a look at every would-be destroyer of Earth du jour, even though it’s really not a good idea. If you’re referring to her occasional shallowness/bitchiness/pettiness, that never went away, you know. That’s a pretty big part of Bulma.

Just wanted to leave that, drink some water

Cute, but I’ve been on the internet too long to get upset when a random stranger boos something I enjoy. Thanks for the opportunity to write way too many words about it though! 2500 of them, in fact! I’d genuinely love to hear your thoughts on them.

#vegeta #son gohan #bulma briefs #dbz #dbs #dragon ball z #dragon ball super #text from the mod #long post #i'm not being sarcastic either tell me what you think #i swear i don't bite

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