#thai linguistic

[absolutebl]

Hey ABL, l have a linguistics related question. Feel free to not answer. So I'm finally watching "he's coming to me" and they are obviously using the word 'phi' a lot both to mean 'ghost' or 'older...' So do the words sound exactly the same (like homophones to English speakers) or is there something I should be looking out for in the differences between them?

They are actually different words and pronunciation.

ผี = ghost

พี่ = older sibling

I don't know about you but no matter how hard I try I can't hear the difference between two or three of the 5 (YES 5) Thai tones.

5 tones = 

low

mid

high

falling

rising

I'm a visual person, so this may help you like it did me. Maybe you can see how high, mid, and falling can all sound alike since they have similar vocal trajectories?

#probably now very helpful #thai bl #thai linguistic #thai language #thai tones #tonal language #5 tones! why?

[visualtaehyun]

ถ้ามีรุ้งด้วยก็คงจะดี /thaa mee rung duuay gaaw khohng ja dee/

รุ้ง /rung/ is a rainbow, the entire spectrum of light, all of the colors. Rung is the name of Mork's sister. So what he says here, could also be read as:

"If Rung was here too, that would be nice."

You know how rainbows are formed? Light refracts in airborne water droplets. And you know what is made of such water droplets and can thus create a rainbow? หมอก /maawk/ - mist, fog, Mork.

It's not just Day who realized that he can still experience the world in all its beauty. I think Mork also realized that what matters is in your heart. Because he'll always carry Rung with him, wherever he goes.

Rung is all around them.

#last twilight #last twilight meta #thai bl #local woman harps on about linguistics #i'm in my feels y'all #the amount of tears i shed ;; #i have a bunch of language notes but i'm too emotional to work on that today

[pharawee]

A few notes on Pat and Chot's conversation:

🔹Ke (เกย์) is a neutral expression that is the phonetic adaptation of the English word gay.

🔹Tut (ตุ๊ด) is a vulgar and pejorative expression used to refer to a very effeminate homosexual man and can have multiple translations, as sissy, queen, [or in this case: tootsie] etc. 

🔹Je (เจ๊) is a Thai honorific from 姐 for “elder sister”. Chot uses it to refer to himself. Pat later uses it to address Chot.

🔹krap/kha (ครับ / ค่ะ) are gender-oriented particles. Chot uses the traditionally female particle for himself.

🌈Sources: LGTBIQ+ Enciclopaedia, Thaipod101

#step by step #step by step the series #bruce sirikorn #ben bunyapol #stepbystepedit #thai bl #thai drama #bl drama #bl series #my edits. #i added some notes and explanations that imo make this conversation easier to understand #because a lot of the nuances are lost in translation #which isn't the translator's fault - it's just how language works #i love it so much #and i love bruce #and we need more fem gays in bl #who are allowed to be loud and proud and are celebrated for it #Tud/tut might come from the movies Tootsie but I'm not sure #(false friends are a super common thing in linguistics and i haven't checked the word's etymology) #it's a term that chot has very obviously reclaimed for himself

[kinnbig]

I somehow never realised Perth’s name wasn’t actually Perth and now my mind is sort of blown. I get confused at how Thai names work anyway so I shouldn’t be surprised, but 🤯

fjckskc I mean Perth is his name, in the same way that Apo’s name is Apo and Nodt’s name is Nodt, but they’re just not their legal names.

and I can try and explain it! (or Perth explains it rlly well in this video lol)

basically! in Thailand, in most situations people are referred to by their used name (also called a nickname or a play name) rather than by their legal first name.

used names, like first names, are often given at birth, but unlike first names they’re not recorded on legal documentation such as birth certificates. last names are often long and aren’t used very often - it’s not uncommon for good friends to not know each other’s last names.

in general western naming convention, you would probably refer to someone by just their first name, or as ‘first name + last name’. someone might have a nickname that they prefer to their legal first name, and in these cases you might refer to them as ‘nickname + last name’.

but the convention for Thai names is to refer to people most of the time with either their used name, or as

‘used name + first name’

(with some exceptions, such as legal/business situations and in the credits of TV/movies).

sometimes you might also see someone’s ‘full name’ written or said as

‘used name + first name + last name’

eg mydramalist writes Mile Phakphum Romsaithong and Nodt Nutthasid Panyangarm.

but generally, you’d say/write either just someone’s used name, or ‘used name + first name’ in most contexts.

if you were talking about Apo Nattawin, for example - Nattawin is his first name, and Apo is his used name (his last name is Wattanagitiphat). because of TV crediting convention, he is credited as Nattawin Wattanagitiphat in the KinnPorsche credits - but he refers to himself as Apo Nattawin, and that is the name others use for him in most situations.

some more quick (random) examples from the KinnPorsche cast -

Tong Thanayut - ‘full name’ Tong Thanayut Thakoonauttaya, credited as Thanayut Thakoonauttaya - but referred to as Tong or Tong Thanayut

Barcode Tinnasit - ‘full name’ Barcode Tinnasit Isarapongporn, credited as Tinnasit Isarapongporn - but referred to as Barcode or Barcode Tinnasit

there are exceptions, obviously - although it’s more common to introduce yourself as ‘used name + first name’, Bible often introduces himself as Wichapas Sumettikul, then adds “or Bible” as an addendum (possibly because he had a more western upbringing) - but he still tends to be referred to as Bible Wichapas in most contexts.

Perth Nakhun is just one big exception lmao. Nakhun isn’t his first name or his last name - it’s a shortened version of Nakhuntanagarn, his mother’s last name. Perth Nakhun is more of a Thai stage name - by ‘typical’ conventions he would be referred to as Perth Stewart lol (and I have actually seen him referred to this way a few times in articles). interestingly (to me, at least), his ‘full name’ seems to be considered to be Perth Nakhun Screaigh, with Nakhun treated as his legal first name. so he gets credited as Nakhun Screaigh - even though Nakhun is not actually his first name. the TV credits follow the typical convention (Perth Nakhun Screaigh -> Nakhun Screaigh) rather than actually crediting with ‘first name + last name’. idk if this was Perth’s choice or just what happened but it’s interesting!

(Jeff Satur is also a stage name - though unlike with Perth, it seems to be considered his ‘full name’ and is also what is used in his TV credits)

anyway that got kind of long (and very colourful! I love colour coding!) but I hope it was somewhat helpful 🥰

#hehehe colours #perth’s video on this is rlly good btw highly recommend #also i wrote this and then the stupid new post editor crashed and i had to write it all again from scratch so. pls be niceys to me #ask #darcey.txt #kinnporsche #linguistics posting #perth nakhun #thai langblr #thai language #darcey.lang

[red-hibiscus]

A bit on my linguistic research on LGBT Thai speech

Back in university I took a field documentation course w/ Thai as the target language. My final project was of course LGBT and Thai. The native speaker we researched off of (a linguistics phd candidate) was a gay man himself. So he was able to give me some extra info I wouldn't have been able to find on my own.

He told me that the [x] sound (voiceless velar fricative) can be heard in the northern thai dialect.... or it could be perceived as the speaker being lgbt. [s] is thought to also be pronounced as more dental (closer to tip of teeth).

Also told me that [paŋ] (pronounced bang) is sort of a newer word for trans men. And of course I can't really find info on it just like it was hell finding info on lgbt linguistics in general (worse if it's in a language you don't speak).

Thai does have gendered pronouns and endings. It has a gender neutral pronoun, but it's not really suited for daily use. So yea it can be difficult for nonbinary people. However the native speaker also emphasized that a lot of the time you can kind of get away with avoiding gendered stuff since Thai is a pro-drop language. Plus as I'm sure thai drama enjoyers noticed, people often use their name or title as a pronoun.

The pronoun [lɔ̀n], if used in a certain way, can be interpreted as being from the lgbt community. It’s originally a feminine 3rd person singular pronoun. However now it’s also being used as a 2nd person singular pronoun. The latter is almost exclusively used by LGBT people, especially transgender people. Though gay people may also use it too. So if used in that way, listeners might assume that the speaker is LGBT.

Thats all I have for now. Thai speakers please add things or correct me!! I don't speak Thai myself aside from things I picked up during that class. I took the class a while ago so memory is a bit hazy on some things. A lot of the info I got is from research articles given to me from the speaker, or things he told me during our 1-on-1 meeting. Not that I think he's giving me bad info at all, the man is literally born and raised in Thailand, was in thailand at the time of my research. Just that there's limited info available for me (plus he's not trans himself, just a lovely ally). That and sociolinguistics is not his specialty.

p.s. if any thai speakers (or anyone) wants to talk about lgbt linguistics with me please do

p.p.s teach me thai please and thank you

#honestly that native speaker was the real mvp waking up at 4am to listen to people butcher his language #plus since he is a linguist himself he knew when we were going in the right or wrong direction and would just sit there and laugh #he's friends with my old internship leader and she said that apparently my project was among his favorites so i guess i did something right #lgbt #gay #linguistics #sociolinguistics #thai #bl series #thai bl #thai drama #asian lgbtq dramas #asianlgbtqdramas #lgbtq #transgender #thai language

[lurkingteapot]

This is the single best English language summary/overview of different, relatively common Thai pronouns I've found to date. The article was originally compiled by Duke Language School founder Bingo (Arthit Juyaso); you can also read the original three-part article at the internet archive here: [1] [2] [3]

#thai language #learning thai #ภาษาไทย #pronouns #grammar #linguistics #resource #language learning #languages #thai pronouns #my nonsense #q

[cynthicaster]

Ranking my favourite natural writing systems by sexual appeal

1. Burmese: မြန်မာအက္ခရာ

2. Tibetan: བོད་སྐད

3. Mkhedruli (Georgian): მხედრული

4. Baybayin (Tagalog): ᜊᜌ᜔ᜊᜌᜒᜈ᜔

5. Devanagari (Sanskrit and Hindi): देवनागरी

6. Hebrew: אָלֶף־בֵּית עִבְרִי

7. Arabic: كتابة عربية

8. Javanese: ꦧꦱꦗꦮ

9. Thai: ภาษาไทย

10. Bengali: বর্ণমালা

11. Sinhalese (Sri Lankan): සිංහල (yes this is the language with the ඞ character)

12. Greek: ελληνικά

13. Katakana (Japanese): カタカナ

14. Hangeul (Korean): 한글

15. Hiragana (Japanese): ひらがな

16. Amharic (Ethiopian): ኢትዮጵያ

17. Kanji (Japanese): 漢字

18. Syriac (Aramaic): ܫܢܐ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ

19. Akkadian: 𒀝𒅗𒁺𒌑

20. Mandarin (Sorry, it’s the only Chinese language I’m semi-familiar with, I’m basic): 官话

21. Cyrillic (Slavic): кириллица

I LIKE ALL OF THESE, I JUST LIKE SOME EVEN MORE THAN OTHERS

#linguistics #writing systems #burmese #tibetan #georgian #baybayin #devanagari #sanskrit #hindi #hebrew #arabic #javanese #thai #bengali #Hebrew and Burmese are the ones I’d write English in

[telomeke]

MY SCHOOL PRESIDENT EP.9 – A CALL FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY

(above) Ep.9 [3I4] 9.00

This little shared moment between Tinn and Gun is also MSP playing its part in Thai BL's collective support for the legalization of same-sex marriage in Thailand. The country is moving toward it, with Parliament having ratified a bill that will make this a reality, but they're not at the finish line yet and there are still hurdles to be overcome (i.e., it could still be pushed back at any time).

With this as the context, many Thai BLs recently have made it a point not just to raise awareness of the issue, but also to keep marriage equality in the forefront of public consciousness lest support for it lose momentum.

I think Not Me and The Eclipse also did this, but I'm not sure exactly in which episodes though (let me know in the notes, if you will, and also which other BLs/GLs joined the party).

I know Bad Buddy definitely did step up to the plate for this, with PatPran spotlighting the issue of LGBTQ+ marriage when they went through their Ep.10 khan maak on the steps of the Archi Faculty (and with a subtle callback too in Ep.11 – see this link here).

So this is MSP's turn at bat, and they're doing it with a sweet little flourish by the sea (maybe nodding at Thailand's popularity as a venue for beach weddings? 😉). Tinn is expressing his hope for them to marry one day, and Gun is radiant (if a little embarrassed and cheekily dismissive) at the prospect.

And in doing so they're keeping the issue alive in the public eye, while at the same time their joyful, puppydog innocence is helping to tear down stigmas and normalize what many still seek to demonize, by showing up the baselessness of othering smears on the simple issue of two people in love wanting their union to be recognized like anybody else's. 💖

A brief note on the Thai linguistics here though – Tinn IS being irredeemably cheesy, but his comment about switching from songwriting to marriage isn't quite as headslappingly klunky as the English subtitles would have us believe.

He's playing on the word แต่ง (pronounced something like dtaeng) which has several meanings, including to write/compose and to marry.

So at Ep.9 [3I4] 9.00 when Tinn talks about switching from dtaeng phlaehng (แต่งเพลง, songwriting, where phlaehng means song/music) to dtaeng ngaan (แต่งงาน, a colloquial term for getting married), his line is not quite as semantically dissonant in Thai as it is in the English subtitles (even if it is a bit corny 😂).

I think it would have been a better fit if they'd translated his comment more along the lines of "switching from writing songs to writing our marriage vows" instead. Ah well. 🤷‍♂️

Anyway, a tip of the hat again to My School President for finding a way to squeeze in a socially responsible (albeit very subtle) comment on the weighty topic of marriage equality amid all the light-hearted gamboling in this episode.

Neither the comment nor the context in which it's delivered detracts from the other. Even though they're making a political statement, there's nothing obnoxious or in your face about the delivery at all, which is the best way for a potentially-divisive message to land.

I do love this show! 😍

#my school president #tinngun #bad buddy #marriage equality #love is love #thai linguistics

[pandasmagorica]

You’re the only person (that I’ve seen here so far) that uses the term “QL” I’m assuming this stems from “BL” so instead of Boys’ Love does it mean Queer Love?

Or if not, what does it stand for?

Hi, @porsweaters, and thank you for asking. "QL" does in fact stand for Queer Love. I was originally using "yaoi" (the original term from Japan, brought over to Thailand as "y-series") because I don't feel comfortable using the term "BL" (and the corresponding female term GL where "G" presumably stands for "Girl" - the Japanese term for which I think is "yuri") since I'm generally watching the shows where they're adults and not high school (Eternal Yesterday and 55:15 Never Too Late - sort of - being the exceptions). I think I actually picked the term up from @waitmyturtles (who uses both "BL" and "QL"). I see @justafriend-ql uses it in her handle, although I think I had switched from "yaoi" to "QL" before I knew of her existence.

By the way, this is the first time anyone has asked me a question. It seems like once I hit save, clicking the question in my notifications self destructs, getting an error message. Very strange.

#yaoi #thai ql #thai bl #linguistics #pandasmagorica

[absolutebl]

Hello! In the latest EP of I Feel You Linger in the Air, Yai addresses Jom as Por Jom. Jom seems surprised but I have no understanding of what Por means so it's significance is lost on me. Perhaps you can help shed some light? Also, how was Yai addressing Jom before?

Por/phor honorific in Thai - I Feel You Linger in the Air

I'm glad you asked it so I don't have to.

I have not encountered it before in BL.

Any of the the Thai language spies still out there wanna weigh in?

I did some poking around - but I could be way off base. Still this what I discovered:

Por is a paternal honorific, luang por is used for respected monks.

So I am assuming this use is relatively old fashioned (the reason we don't hear it often in our normal BL) and either one step more intimate or, more likely, one step more respectful than no honorific. Possibly scholarly?

I'm thinking all this has to do with Jom's demonstration of education. Yai has figured out that one of the reasons Jom doesn't belong and cannot fit in with the servants is that he is more educated than a peasant, which adds up to him being originally from a high status and wealthy family, especially speaking English and having travelled (he has a non-Chang Mai accent).

There is very little Thai middle class at the beginning of the 1920s since trade is being dominated/dictated by the West, or Chinese merchant operations, and Siam is a monarchy. So for a nationalize Thai citizen it's either military, landed gentry with trade operations (like Yai), military, or... none of the above. This changes, especially in the south, throughout this decade (as it did in other parts of the world). So there is a rising bourgeoisie going on in the background but it's not that obvious in Chang Mai at this time.

What this means to Yai is that Jom's family either got wiped out or politically entirely disenfranchised possibly as part of the 1912 attempted coups (or even WWI)? This would be mystifying for Yai because Jom doesn't act like he comes from a military family at all. So his background and status is very confusing for Yai, but Yai does know one thing...

Jom is NOT lower class by the standards of Yai's temporal worldview and existence.

For a young man to be educated and yet entirely alone is very dangerous and suspicious. Also, let's be clear, Jom doesn't look or act like a laborer. He red flags "cultured" all over the place.

Yai is paternalistic and caring towards Jom out the gate because Yai has a big ol'crush but also because he recognizes "his own" is trying to survive while isolated and scared. Yai wants to rescue Jom.

Some Historical Context for I Feel You Linger In The Air

I love history and so here's some quick info that any Thai watcher would likely know, but you might not... ready?

Remember:

Burma (Myanmar) to the west is occupied by the British.

The French hold Vietnam to the east.

Everyone is bickering over what would become Cambodia & Laos.

China occasionally gets involved from the North (also, lots of immigrants from China at this time accounting for a large percentage of the merchant/middle class)

Eventually, Japan would invade during WWII.

In part, The Kingdom of Siam was kept a "neutral" party because none of the surrounding colonial powers wanted to risk offending any of the other players in the area.

Siam re-negotiated sovereignty in 1920 (from USA) and 1925 (France & Britain). But during the time of this show (mid to late 1920s) it was back to it's customary type-rope balancing act of extreme diplomacy with the allied western colonial powers that surrounded it. Recognizing that Thailand was never colonized, it's boarders were constantly nibbled at and it was "ambassador-occupied" off and on by Westerners whose military backing and exploitive business concerns simply outmatched the monarchy, especially in the technology department (as well as by reputation on the global stage at the time).

In other words, the farang in this show (James & Robert) are bound to be both the baddies and the power players of the narrative.

The king of Siam at the time (Vajiravudh AKA Rama VI) was initially somewhat popular but also regarded as overly extravagant since Siam was hit by a major postwar recession in 1919. It should be noted that King Vajiravudh had no son because he was most likely gay (which at the time did not much concern Siamese popular opinion, EXCEPT THAT it undermined the stability of the monarchy).

He "died suddenly" in 1925 (age 44) with the monarchy weakened and succession handed off to his younger brother.

In 1932 a small circle of the rising bourgeoisie (all of whom had studied in Europe, mostly Paris), supported by some military, seized power from the monarchy in a practically nonviolent Siamese Revolution installing a constitutional monarchy.

Siam would then go through: dictatorship, WWII, Japanese invasion, Allied occupation, democratic elections, military junta, the Indochina wars, communist insurgency, more democracy and popularization movements, multiple coups, more junta, more monarchy, eventually leading us to the somewhat chaotic insanity of Thai politics we have today. (Which is, frankly, a mix of monarchy, junta, democracy, egocentric popularism, and bribery.)

(source)

#P'ABL gets crazy academic for a moment #a brief history of Thai politics since WWI #Thai BL #I feel You linker in the air #it's a great fucking show but everything makes more sense if you have historical context #thai honorifics #thai language #thai linguistics

[visualtaehyun]

MY GIRLS ARE FINALLY ON AIR

Disclaimer: not a native Thai speaker, still learning 🙏

Ongsa and Sun

At first, Ongsa wrongly assumes that Sun is older so she calls her พี่ /phi/, speaks respectfully and wais her:

ขอโทษค่ะพี่ /khaaw thoht kha, phi/

Then they settle into these pronouns:

☀ Sun: เรา /rao/ -> Ongsa (calls her เธอ /ter/ once when she asks her name)

🌐 Ongsa: เรา /rao/ -> Sun

-> เรา /rao/ is an informal 1st pers. pronoun that pretty much all the students in Ongsa's class seem to use

Later, when they're texting, it takes Ongsa entirely too long to catch onto the fact that Sun thinks Earth is a guy because-

คุยกันมาตั้งนาน เรายังไม่รู้เลยว่านายชื่ออะไร /khui gan maa dtang naan. rao yang mai ruu loei waa naai cheuu a rai/ -> นาย /naai/ is a male 2nd pers. pronoun

While we're talking about their texts, the subs have this weirdly mixed up:

1 - ฝันดีนะ /fan dee na/ = lit. dream well/good dreams, 'Sweet dreams' 2 - ราตรีสวัสดิ์ /raa dtree sa wat/ = formal, 'Good night' 3 - Similarly, Sun's มอนิ่งนะ /morning na/ is a more informal 'Good morning' compared to formal อรุณสวัสดิ์ /a roon sa wat/ or polite สวัสดีตอนเช้า /sa wat dee dtaawn chaao/

When Ongsa isn't gay-panic hiccupping, she's actually really clever and witty! I'll get to her ig posts in a second but there's also this moment:

ยังสวยอยู่เลย /yang suay yuu loei/ สวยจะ หมายถึง ซวยอ่ะ /suay ja- maai theung- suay a/

The difference in pronunciation between these two words is just the tone - สวย /suay/ (rising tone) means pretty vs. ซวย /suay/ (middle tone) means unlucky

from.the.earth__

ถ่ายรูป ด่วน สี-ขาวดำ /thaai ruup duaan see khaao dam/ = urgent/express black-and-white photography caption: ยกกล้องมาถ่ายแทบไม่ทัน /yohk glaawng maa thaai thaaep mai than/ = almost didn't raise the camera in time to snap this

caption: เงา-เหงา /ngao-ngao/ = shadow-lonely -> เงา ๆ /ngao ngao/ is an expression that means indistinctly, faintly

The difference in pronunciation is, again, in the tones - เงา /ngao/ (middle tone) means shadow vs. เหงา /ngao/ (rising tone) means lonely

caption: ว้าว! ปลาทับใจจัง /wow! bplaa thap jai jang/

I love this SO much omg It's a pun on ประทับใจ /bpra thap jai/ = impressed, but also a visual pun!!

ปลา /bplaa/ = fish + ทับ /thap/ = placed on top of + ใจ /jai/ = heart

caption: สู้ ๆ นะ เป็นกำลังใจให้ /su su na. bpen gam lang jai hai/ = Fighting! Rooting for/encouraging [you]!

Another visual pun! This one's only funny if you know what peaches are called in Thai: peach = ลูกท้อ /luuk thaaw/ - but the word ท้อ /thaaw/ in there? It means discouraged!

Alpha, Aylin, and Luna

🔝 Alpha is Ongsa's older sister: พี่ /phi/ (used as a 1st pers. pronoun) -> แก /gae/ (informal 2nd pers. pronoun)

👽 Aylin is their cousin, in the same grade as Ongsa, and speaks pretty curtly, almost like someone would on two-way radio: she doesn't use any pronouns apart from this once-

แกกำลังบุกรุกที่ของฉัน /gae gam lang book rook thee khaawng chan/

Omitting pronouns is possible and not uncommon in Thai but doing so constantly, combined with her monotone speech pattern, low voice, and mostly a lack of ending particles, it does stick out! It doesn't really come across in the subs tbh (apart from including the way she refers to people as humans = มนุษย์ /ma noot/):

ไม่ต้องแคร์ใคร /mai dtaawng care khrai/ = Don't need to care about anyone.

🌙 Luna, Alpha, the two bullies, and Mawin all seem to be in the same grade because all of them use the impolite pronouns กู/มึง /guu, meung/ (=I/you) amongst each other - how very fun to finally hear some GMMTV girls talk like this :D

I love Alpha and Luna teaming up to beat up scold these two dipshits:

Alpha: พวกมึงสองคนแกล้งน้องกูออ /phuuak meung saawng khohn glaaeng nong guu aaw/ Mawin, trying to defuse: พวกเธอใจเย็นก่อน /phuuak ter jai yen gaawn/

While the girls are furious, the guys are clearly fearing for their lives, wai'ing endlessly 😂

Lastly-

Sarah Salola

I gasped when I saw her name in the credits!! She's this handsome singer-songwriter with a lovely voice who's queer herself - she's talked about her sexuality and style before (interview is in Thai) but this Valentine's she revealed her partner :)

Here's a cover of Nont Tanont's รักแรก (First Love) she did with Jan 💕

Needless to say, I can't wait for her OST and the accompanying MV that's surely gonna be super cute!

#23.5 degrees #thai gl #milk pansa #love pattranite #milklove #ciize rutricha #view benyapa #june wanwimol #sarah salola #janhae ployshompoo #local woman harps on about linguistics #ongsasun

[wahgifs]

i can help you with model making, CAD drawings, and your thesis. I'm giving you such a hard sell... you've got to buy me now. love in the air episode 5

#asianlgbtqdrama #bldramaedit #love in the air #love in the air the series #noeul nuttarat #boss chaikamon #thai drama #wish i knew thai because i feel like this could be worded better!! #bully you but really i mean tease? #cry from embarrassment because i'll be so damn good to you?? #oh linguistics #also #not a big fan of the wife/husband titles but eh #this was a request and who am i to deny anybody #:') ♥

[neo-neos]

Hi 👉👈 It’s me and my hyperfixation bullshit again

If you happen to have any good resources for learning Korean or Thai could you maybe… 👉👈 share? (anything at all, sites, apps, papers, books, videos, pictures…)

Thank you in advance

#thai language #korean langblr #korean language #langblr #language tumblr #language study #studyblr #linguistics tumblr #linguistics #languages

[techtechonmymind]

Kibum’s impression of Ten is so cute and accurate 😭

#also poor ten being bad at thai that doll has been having a constant linguistic identity crisis for six years #ten ❤️ #kibum❣️ #shawolzen hours #fave #shinee #nct #video 🎥

[airenyah]

i think i found a way to bring up bad buddy in my bachelor thesis, but i'm gonna have to restructure half of my plans

#originally i wanted to analyze the difficulties that come up when trying to translate thai pronouns and honorifics and polite particles #but then i was like ''shit i only got roughly 9000 words i'm gonna have to get more specific'' so i decided to focus on pronouns only #but unfortunately in bbs there isn't really something relating to pronouns only that causes difficulties in translation #there is plenty of other things that can be tricky to translate like pat's line username or the thing about pran's password #or in ep2 when pran's friends are discussing pat's note and how it's gotta be a guy from the use of ครับ (krub) #anyway if i somehow manage to restructure my thesis in a way where i actually CAN go back to my original plan #on focusing on all 3: pronouns and honorifics and polite particles #then that scene in ep2 pt3 where patpran are teasing each other about the dumplings/green tea drinks is actually perfect for my thesis!! #now i just gotta figure out how to talk about all 3 of these topics and still keep my thesis at around 9000 words.... #airenyah plappert #adrm #bbs #i have until friday to figure this out bc that's when i'm gonna have to hand in my exposé #edit: i'm so stupid if i go back to my original plan then that plan included bringing bbs into it anyway #that ep2 scene where the architecture gang is discussing pat's note is the perfect example #of a tricky spot when it comes to translating thai polite particles #usually when a sentence includes a polite particle you'd try to express the translation in a polite register too #but that's a moment where they're explicitly referencing a linguistic concept that just doesn't exist in english #so how are you gonna translate that for an audience who has no idea what polite particles are #and have the translation make sense for them #although on my bbs rewatch the past two nights i found one or the other moment relating to pronouns #that i might be able to use #we'll see

[telomeke]

MOONLIGHT CHICKEN: UR THE... TOMATO SAUCE???

(above) Moonlight Chicken Ep.6 [4/4] 5.05

OK, so this post did a pretty pirouette and twirled its way back onto my dashboard once again after more than a month away. OP @vegasandhishedgehog had pointed out that the graphic text on Heart and Li Ming's t-shirts together seemed to be inexplicably telegraphing the cryptic message "Ur the... Tomato Sauce"... 🤔

This time around I couldn't help but look a bit more deeply into what it might mean, especially the intriguing "Tomato Sauce" on Li Ming's t-shirt. Based on what I've found, I think it is possible to read a bit of cheeky wordplay in the English words of this scene. 🤩 But first – a detour into linguistics and etymology is necessary.

There's a phenomenon that is sometimes seen in cross-cultural commerce – I don't know if it has a name, since I'm not trained in linguistics or anything of the sort – but whenever a hitherto unknown product or ingredient is introduced into a culture, locals will try to give it a name that resonates or sticks. And often that name will be along the lines of "this thing is the X country or foreign version of our more familiar local Y thing" (sorry for all the technical jargon here, hah! 😂).

You can see this in Southeast Asia: the Dutch may have been responsible for introducing many new food items to the Malay archipelago because a number of food items around the region are labeled "Dutch" even though they don't originate from the Netherlands.

The soursop fruit (originally from the tropical Americas and the Caribbean) is called durian belanda in Malay (meaning Dutch durian, because both fruits are spiky). In Malaysian Cantonese, potatoes are sometimes called ho laan syu (Holland tuber) and green beans ho laan dau (Holland beans), the latter echoing the way haricots verts are sometimes called French beans in English.

In Malay, turkeys are called ayam belanda (Dutch chicken), which nicely parallels the French word dinde – when turkeys were introduced to France, they were called (among other names) poulet d'Inde or chicken of India (possibly because India was seen as a source of exotic prized goods, or maybe because the birds, native to the Americas, were thought of as originating in the West Indies or les Indes occidentales). Poulet d'Inde eventually got shortened to just dinde though.

There's something similar going on with the tomato in Thailand. As its original homeland was the Americas, at some point in time it must have been a new and unnamed vegetable (botanically a fruit) when it first appeared in markets there.

So in Thai, tomatoes are called มะเขือเทศ (ma kheuua thaeht), and in keeping with the principle of adding some qualifier (that denotes external origins) to a local counterpart, the word เทศ (thaeht) means foreign or outlandish, while มะเขือ (ma kheuua) actually means EGGPLANT.

Thus the Thai word for tomato translates literally to foreign eggplant (or perhaps, outlandish eggplant).

For the text-savvy in this digital age (and that must surely include teens Heart and Li Ming), the eggplant emoji is laden with phallic innuendo (I'm not going into detail, but here's a visual 😂):

🍆

Remembering that in Thailand, Thai equivalents of weiner and wee-wee can sometimes be used as cutesy nicknames for boys (see this My School President write-up linked here, also Uncle Tong calling Junior กระจู๋ or gra juu in Bad Buddy Ep.11 [1I4] 10.38), it's possible to read the "Tomato" part of Li Ming's t-shirt – because of the outlandish eggplant reference – as a subjectively cute pet name along the same lines. Maybe the effect is meant to be something like: "You're a weird little weiner" (expressed with affection through Heart's loving eyes, mind you 💖).

Plus there's also the theme in Moonlight Chicken of young Li Ming growing into adulthood (despite Jim's constant efforts to infantilize him), while comfortably claiming his own sexuality in the process (and with Heart playing a pivotal role in this). Heart and Li Ming's t‑shirts pointing out the innuendo and imagery of the tomato/eggplant could also be a nod at that, with the outlandish definition of เทศ/thaeht suggesting that since Li Ming is gay, this eggplant/gra juu is not like most other ones (although he's not at all the exception in Moonlight Chicken! 😂).

Noting too that Li Ming is hyperfocused on escaping to the West, him being labeled Little Weiner of a Foreign Persuasion also does kind of fit. 😍

In this light, the word sauce just adds to the naughtiness of eggplant, while it also carries connotations of piquancy, sass and/or the essence or distillation of something.

And so the "Tomato Sauce" on Li Ming's t-shirt can possibly be read as symbolizing his indomitably feisty (gay) spirit, his faraway aspirations and his place in Heart's life as a cherished young boyfriend (worthy of a cutesy, if unspoken, pet name).

Am I over-analyzing again? Perhaps. But at the very least I think it's still a fun way of looking at Li Ming's t-shirt, and I wouldn't put it past Director Aof and screenwriter Best Kittisak Kongka to be playing with stuff like this. 🤩 They already did something similar with Li Ming's Sesame Street "Everything I Know I Learned On The Streets" t-shirt (see Ep.3 [4/4] 6.42), a metaphor for his uneasy juxtaposition at the amorphous line between childhood (represented by the kiddie vibes of Sesame Street) and incipient adulthood (as signaled by his streetwise self-confidence, gained independently perhaps from Jim). And there was also the wordplay around his "St. Rene" t-shirt (written up here).

Tagging @vegasandhishedgehog because you're the eagle-eyed OP who first noticed Heart and Li Ming's t-shirts, and as always @dribs-and-drabbles because you're foremost the one I think of whenever there's anything t-shirt related in BL! 😍

PS It's not the first time a vegetable was used as a metaphor for larger issues in Moonlight Chicken – see my write-up at the end of @airenyah's My School President Thai linguistics post that I reblogged here, for more info on Jim's winter melons in the market (although he was being decidedly less playful there! 😍). Li Ming also steals the scene away from Jim and his produce, once again displaying more adult maturity than his loong will give him credit for. 💖

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#moonlight chicken #li ming's t-shirt #tomato #tomato sauce #eggplant #thai linguistics #wordplay