#AOTC what can I say I really love prequel obi wan

[antianakin]

Hi, I'm not sure if you are watching the Ahsoka show but I'm currently watching it and notice that with this "the jedi were corrupt and lost their way" thing people say has been re awaken, and I would love to hear what you think about that. Personaly, I don't think the jedi were in the wrong.

I did watch the Ahsoka show, much to the detriment of my own mental health. I will NOT be watching any second season of it or the "Heir to the Empire" film or whatever that's coming down the pipeline and I am seriously considering abandoning the entire Mandoverse at this point as a result of my feelings about this show. The single exception I might make to that is if TBOBF gets a second season because I do want to support Temuera Morrison and Ming-Na Wen even if the material they get continues to suck.

As for Filoni's completely blatant anti-Jedi bullshit, it's stupid. People will believe what they want to believe and a lot of other blogs have given some really well-written and thought out explanations as to WHY the Jedi weren't "corrupt" at all and didn't "lose their way" that will probably be better than anything I can come up with right now. I've done a few of my own at different points, too, I think. So I'll try to do a brief summary of my thoughts on the matter.

The basic gist is that the narrative of the Prequels was not ever that the Jedi were corrupt and that's why everything else happened. They are not the cause of basically ANYTHING in the story, they do not move the plot at almost any point. They're constantly reacting to things and then having shit happen to them. The Jedi do not parallel Anakin's own fall (nor do they cause it), the REPUBLIC does. Anakin's fall is paralleled by the fall of the Republic and the Senate. It's the SENATE that Palpatine is also corrupting, it's the SENATE that's being run by fear and arrogance, it's the SENATE that keeps making the active choice to allow Palpatine to win things (THEY'RE the ones who vote him in, THEY'RE the ones who vote to go to war, THEY'RE the ones who keep giving him executive powers, and THEY'RE the ones who allow the Empire to come to power and cheer in the end) while the Jedi are CONSTANTLY trying to stop the Sith and ultimately stop Palpatine.

The Jedi are there to represent the health of the galaxy. The more Jedi there are, the better it's doing. If we ignore all of the supplemental stuff, there are 10,000 Jedi or so in TPM. Then one dies and it's the beginning of the end. Almost 200 die in AOTC and a galactic civil war begins. And then all but TWO are killed in ROTS and the Empire rises. Then Luke shows up with the barest of Jedi training and the Rebellion gets their first major win with the destruction of the Death Star. And when Luke fully comes into his own as a Jedi and declares it, the Rebellion beats the Empire and Palpatine dies.

That's literally it. The Jedi are a symbol for the health of the galaxy. They fall because Anakin and the galaxy around them lose their way and turn on the Jedi.

But outside of a few notable exceptions (like the Obi-Wan Kenobi show), everything written since the Prequels came out has started to hit on this particular theme. The Jedi weren't necessarily EVIL, but they WERE weak. They failed. They were arrogant. They were blind. They were out of touch and old-fashioned. This pops up in TCW (in particular season 7, but there's hints of it in earlier seasons too), Rebels, the Cal Kestis video games, Tales of the Jedi, and of course now the Ahsoka show and very very likely the upcoming Acolyte show. It's pervasive as shit and it's annoying and it's WRONG.

So it's not exactly SHOCKING that Felony wrote that theme into a show about Ahsoka. If there was any show we could GUARANTEE was going to have that sentiment expressed, it would've been this one. But it's also part of a much larger pattern that goes beyond Felony, too. And this is why it feels SO SO HARD to hope that at some point we might actually get a Jedi positive piece of media in Star Wars again. GENUINELY Jedi positive, not just lifting up a few special characters while dismissing the entire Order or having what few Jedi characters we've got left actively choosing to abandon some of the things that are intrinsic to what it means to be a Jedi.

The Jedi were never wrong. The Jedi were ALWAYS ALWAYS RIGHT. That's the whole point. The Jedi were right, and they were killed for it. But audiences didn't want to hear it any more than the people of the galaxy far far away did, so now we just keep getting stories about how the Jedi were wrong even though it goes against everything Lucas intended his story to be about.

#star wars #jedi #pro jedi #pro jedi order #pro jedi culture #jedi order appreciation #jedi culture appreciation #ahsoka show #ahsoka spoilers

[gffa]

Is melida/daan canon? sometimes people argue about how the jedi should not have gone to war, and then I remember that whole story and the debate about whether qui-gon shouldve stayed and fought- and it's really quite fascinating.

Hi! So, it depends on what you mean by "canon", as Star Wars has several different continuities and what is "canon" in one will not be "canon" in another, despite that they're both officially put out by Star Wars. 1. George Lucas continuity: The first six movies and seasons 1-6 of The Clone Wars. Nothing else is canon to Lucas' Star Wars, he has explicitly said dozens of times that the books, comics, games, etc. are their own world, but they're not canon to his Star Wars. 2. Legends continuity: Any books, novels, games that you can reasonably expect to be taken seriously (ie, not LEGO Star Wars or a mini-Flash game or what have you) that's pre-April 25, 2014 is in this continuity, unless something post-this date has a disclaimer in the back that says it was based on Legends continuity but wasn't ready for publication until later, but still counts as the Legends continuity. This is where the Melida/Daan events fall. 3. Disney continuity: Once Disney bought Star Wars and started putting out their own shows (Rebels, season 7 of The Clone Wars, The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Andor, etc.) and movies (Rogue One, the sequel trilogy, Solo, etc.) and games and books and comics, they created a new continuity. This one is a bit tricky since they say it's all on a level playing field, but the truth is that the TV shows are higher "canon" than the books and games and such. (As a note: Fantasy Flight Games' reference books are generally not a source of canon material, they try to be canon-compliant, but the story group has said they're probably not to be trusted re: being hard canon.) So, to answer your question: It depends on the discussion you're having and what the agreed-upon continuity is. For me, while I dabble in all of the continuities, if I'm talking about the movies+TCW, then Melida/Daan is probably not canon. But if we're talking about the Lucasfilm era novels, then they are canon to that continuity and a lot of people occupy that space, that's the playground they're in, so those events are canon to them. And, honestly, it's hard for me to take those books 100% seriously, they were written when only one of the prequels movies was out, AOTC didn't even exist then, much less the expanding of the world that TCW did, as well as they were written to a very specific audience of young teens, who would want to read about other young teens being heroes, which means the adults basically had to get hit with the idiot stick and so I'm more interested in meeting them where they're at and what their aim was, in my view. They're great fun and people should go nuts with them if that's their jam, live your best fannish life! God knows, that's what I do on stuff I love! But they also occupy a very nebulous space on being "canon", because so much depends on what framework we're talking about!

#lumi.txt #legends vs canon

[that1sgarbage]

I have officially decided TROS is my least favorite Star Wars movie

#not that anyone cares but my ranking is #TLJ coming in STRONG at number one #throne room ? ben and rey ? finn fighting phasma ? this movie will forever be I C O N I C #ROTS idc what ANYONE says it is a fantastic film #rogue one for obvious reasons #TFA kylo is pretty rey is pretty EVERYONE IS PRETTY IN THIS ONE #ANH we love luke on this account #ESB once again we love luke on this account and leia she iconic in this film and luke is extra cute #AOTC what can I say I really love prequel obi wan #ROTJ we love redemption #TPM obi wan and duel of fates makes me chefs kiss #solo I actually kinda like it ngl #TROS shes messy I dont hate her like theres probably 4 scenes I like but shes a whole mess

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

(what happened with this ask right here is: I started answering it a looong time ago, stuck it in my queue without finishing it because I have wayyy too many drafts and anything I put in there is as good as lost, it got posted because I messed up the scheduling, I realized I had a gross draft posted on my blog, I screenshot it in a panic and deleted the post itself, and then forgot about it because it was in my computer's captures folder, and I also have too many of these - hence the weird presentation. I feel like this poor ask's tale is more interesting than anything I have to say lmao.)

So, as a big fan of the Jedi Order, I have seen the Prequels and TCW many, many times. I think my 'Love Encouraged' series testifies to that lol. I have also seen the OT about 3 times, I think? And maybe 2 times for Rebels, idk. My EU knowledge isn't quite what it could be, but I've flicked through the major TCW tie-in books. Now, it is possible that that expression is used somewhere in one of those, but I don't recall it. And I can say with the utmost certainty that I do not remember that phrase EVER being used in canon.

(By the way: you know what is often a good indicator of something appearing in canon? Gifs. If you've never seen gifs or captures of it after a few years in the fandom, chances are it's a deformation of something else, or fanon. Ever seen gifs of Clones speaking Mando'a? Nah. EU + Fanon. Gifs of Master-Padawan pairs speaking entirely through telepathy? Nah. Fanon. Gifs of Jedi verbatim telling someone not to feel? Nah, it's a deformation of other things they have said that get interpreted a certain way. People make content around stuff that is significant. 'Do or Do Not'? Giffed. 'It's not that we're not allowed to have those feelings, it's natural'? Giffed. 'Be mindful of your thoughts'? Giffed.)

Now, what I think happened with that expression is that it started out as a saying in a fic or a book that got taken literally and then passed around. Like how "the bond between Master/Apprentice is strong," and now you have this whole thing in fic about near-tangible links in the Force that can get ripped out, get cut, start fraying, etc... It's not a canon thing.

The problem with that sentence is that it's so incredibly vague that you can just about slap any meaning onto it, and no I have no idea what writers are trying to convey with it, because chances are they aren't talking about the same thing!

The two Jedi teachings I can think of that consistently use the word "feelings" are these ones:

"stretch out with your feelings" (ANH, Obi-Wan to Luke), "be mindful of your feelings/thoughts" (TPM, Yoda to Anakin, AotC Obi-Wan to Anakin), "use your feelings" (RotS, Yoda to Obi-Wan)

"I cannot allow my feelings to cloud my judgment" (TCW S7, Obi-Wan to Bo-Katan)

No talk of suppressing them. No talk of ignoring them.

Now, I understand how you could go from "Jedi should not let themselves be controlled by their negative emotions" to "Jedi should let go of their negative emotions." Tomato-Tomahto, right? It's just words.

And then you can go from "Jedi let got of their (negative) emotions" to "Jedi release their emotions." And where would you release something as intangible as emotions? In the Force.

It's essentially a game of telephone. And then somebody picks up this new formulation from a fic, doesn't know it's made up, and rolls with it, and boom, you have a new part of Jedi teachings that nobody would be able to even define because it can mean anything really. Does the author see it as a good thing? A bad thing? What does it look like in practice? Who knows.

tldr: I don't even know what the concept is supposed to mean because it depends on the writer, but it's not canon (as in, not in the movies + TCW, and it's not in Rebels either).

#ask #anonymous #fanon vs canon #releasing your emotions in the force #jedi order #intergalactic therapists #on feelings

[newdougsblog]

The Tragic Hero Full of Fear

Hello everyone! Before I get into this, I’d like to thank @jasontoddiefor​ for both the name and being the main enabler of this fun piece of writing. I also want to thank all my wonderful friends over on Discord for letting me bounce ideas off of them and helping me. You are all amazing!!

Ok, so let’s get into it!

The first six Star Wars movies (the Original and Prequel trilogies) are commonly referred to as “the Tragedy of Darth Vader.”  But what makes these movies a tragedy? How is Anakin Skywalker himself, the main character of said tragedy, a tragic hero? In this meta/essay, I will discuss how Anakin himself is definitionally a tragic hero and outline his story as it relates to the structure of a classic Greek tragedy.  

This essay will focus solely on Anakin’s character as he is canonically portrayed.

The Hero

Let’s go through the main traits of a tragic hero (as per early literature) and discuss them in the context of Anakin Skywalker.

Possesses immense courage and strength and is usually favored by the gods

Anakin’s courage is evident throughout his entire life, such as when he participates in the pod race in TPM or on the front lines during the Clone Wars. 

While we cannot definitively ascribe Anakin’s abilities to any deity, we can associate them with the Force. The Force is able to somewhat influence the happenings of the universe in certain ways and takes the place of any sort of deity.

Whether Anakin is the “Chosen One” or not, his connection to the Force is stronger than that of any other Force-sensitive being, so he is consequently closer to it than most, if not all, other Force-sensitive beings. 

Extreme loyalty to family and country 

Anakin is consistent in his demonstrations of loyalty to those he has strong feelings for (whether those feelings be romantic or platonic).

His devotion to Padmé surpasses his loyalty to the Jedi, and he is always willing to go to great lengths to ensure their safety and well-being.

Anakin also exhibits a strong sense of devotion to his mother, Shmi. His devotion to her, and by extension her wellbeing, surpasses his duties as Jedi. 

In ROTS, Anakin says, “I will not betray the Republic… my loyalties lie with the Chancellor and with the Senate… and with you” (you, in this case, referring to Padmé). In this quotation, Anakin’s loyalties are made quite clear. At this point, he is not faithful to the Jedi, but to his government, its leaders, and, of course, his wife.

Representative of society’s current values

During the Clone Wars, Anakin is known by the moniker, “the Hero with No Fear,” and is one of the Republic’s “poster boys.” He is charismatic, kind, seemingly fearless (obviously) and a strong fighter, thus representing the values that were important to the Republic at the time. The last characteristic is especially important because of the assurance it instills in times of war. As a representation of the Republic, Anakin’s prowess on the battlefield creates hope for its citizens that victory is possible. 

Anakin also empathizes with the opinion that the seemingly outdated Jedi Code holds them back. In the Citadel Arc, Tarkin remarks that “the Jedi Code prevents [the Jedi] from going far enough to achieve victory.” Anakin actually agrees with this statement, replying that “[he’s] also found that [the Jedi] sometimes fall short of victory because of [their] methods” (Season 3, Episode 19). He shows a sense of allegiance not to the ancient ways of the Jedi, but to the newer, more modern ideals regarding military action. 

Anakin claims to have brought “peace, justice, freedom, and security” to his “new Empire.” While the Empire's interpretations of the aforementioned values are skewed, Anakin continues to represent them as Darth Vader. 

Anakin’s statement to Obi-Wan also mirrors Palpatine’s declaration to the Senate: “In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society which I assure you will last for ten thousand years.” The people applaud this statement, demonstrating a general sense of exhaustion in regards to the war and a yearning for what this new Empire is promising them.

Lead astray/challenged by strong feelings

Though there are many, many examples of Anakin’s emotions getting the better of him, we’re simply going to list two:

Anakin’s fury and anguish after the death of his mom leads to his slaughter of the Tuskens

Anakin’s overwhelming fear of losing Padmé is ultimately what leads to his Fall.

Every tragic hero possesses what is called a hamartia, or a fatal flaw. This trait largely contributes to the hero’s catastrophic downfall. Anakin’s hamartia is his need for control, which partially manifests through his fear of loss. 

Let’s explore this idea in more detail. 

Though Anakin grows up as a slave, the movies neglect to explicitly cover the trauma left from his time in slavery. However, it is worth noting that slaves did not have the ability to make many choices for themselves; they didn’t even own their bodies. After being freed, Anakin is whisked away to become a Jedi. He does not possess much control over his life as Jedi, for he is simply told what path he is going to take. While Anakin does make this decision on his own, becoming a Jedi is a disciplined and somewhat-strict way of life and not one that allows for an abundance of reckless autonomy as he is wont to engage in. 

(Side note: I’m not here to argue about Qui-Gon’s decision-making abilities, nor do I wish to engage in discourse regarding the Jedi’s way of life. I am simply presenting and objectively stating these facts in relation to Anakin because they are pertinent to my point.) 

During AOTC, Anakin is unable to save his mother from death. As Shmi dies in his arms, Anakin is absolutely helpless. The situation is completely out of his control, and he is forced to contend with the reality that despite all of his power, he cannot control everything that happens. 

He also feels that he has a larger potential for power and is being held back by Obi-Wan: “although I'm a Padawan learner, in some ways... a lot of ways... I'm ahead of him. I'm ready for the trials. I know I am! He knows it too. He believes I'm too unpredictable… I know I started my training late... but he won't let me move on.” Anakin believes Obi-Wan, his teacher and mentor, is holding him back. He expresses a self-held conviction of his status and skills and does not trust the word of his superior. 

In ROTS, Anakin starts dreaming of Padmé’s death. Considering what occurred the last time he dreamt of a loved one’s demise, Anakin is justifiably (or at least justifiably from his point of view) worried. He consequently wants to stop these dreams from coming true in any way possible. His fear of death, especially that of his loved ones, represents his need for control over everything, even things that are uncontrollable. This overwhelming desire leads to Anakin’s drastic actions.

As Darth Vader, he no longer possesses such fears, for everyone that he loved is either dead or has betrayed him. He is the epitome of order and control, eliminating any who disturb this perceived equilibrium. 

However, this changes because of one person: Luke Skywalker. 

Luke reintroduces something that was (arguably) long-absent in Vader’s life, which is interpersonal attachment. Vader yearns for his son to join him by his side. When Luke refuses, Vader continues to attempt to seek him out. In ROTJ, Vader is forced to choose between the Emperor, a man he has long trusted and followed, and Luke, the son he never knew he had. Out of a desire to protect and keep what little family he has left (and likely a sense of “I couldn’t save Padmé but at least I can save her legacy by keeping her child(ren) alive and safe”), Vader defeats the Emperor and saves his son. Though his actions are definitionally heroic, Anakin never truly overcomes his hamartia. 

The Structure of a Tragedy

Classic Greek tragedies follow a specific story structure, which, according to the German playwright Gustav Freytag, is as follows:

We’re going to focus on the three aspects that best represent Anakin’s story as a tragedy: The peripeteia, the anagnorisis, and the catastrophe/denouement. These occur during and/or after the climax. 

The peripeteia is the climax/the turning point in the plot. Said change usually involves the protagonist's good luck and prosperity taking a turn for the worse. 

Within the tragedy we are discussing, the peripeteia occurs when Anakin chooses Sidious over Mace Windu and solidifies his allegiance to the Dark side, becoming the very thing he swore to destroy. It is at this point that things really start to go downhill. He kills children, chokes his wife, fights his best friend, gets his remaining limbs cut off, etc. 

The anagnorisis is the point in the tragedy when the protagonist recognizes their error, seeing the true nature of that which they were previously ignorant of, usually regarding their circumstances or a specific relationship (such as Oedipus’ realization that his wife was actually his mother). In most tragedies, the anagnorisis is in close proximity to the peripeteia. In Anakin’s story, the anagnorisis occurs during ROTJ. After being wounded in his fight against Luke, Vader watches as his son is brutally electrocuted by Sidious. It is at this moment that Darth Vader realizes that Luke was right—there is good in him, and he still has the chance to redeem himself. 

The catastrophe/denouement (since this is a tragedy, we’re going to go with “catastrophe”) is the end of the tragedy. Events and conflicts are resolved and brought to a close, and a new sort of “normality” is established. The catastrophe often provides a sense of catharsis (release of tension) for the viewer. The protagonist is worse off than they were at the beginning of the tragedy. 

The catastrophe within “The Tragedy of Darth Vader” transpires soon after the anagnorisis at the end of ROTJ. Though the realization of his capacity for good is the anagnorisis, the follow-through (via his actions), as well as what consequently occurs, is the catastrophe. As previously discussed, Vader saves Luke by killing the Emperor but does so at the cost of his own life. This serves as the resolution of the tragedy, for the hero’s fate has been confirmed—Darth Vader fulfills his destined role as the Chosen One and, in doing so, brings about his own redemption and dies as Anakin Skywalker.

In conclusion, the categorization of Star Wars as a tragedy is a choice that heavily influences Anakin, the protagonist and hero, of the story. He is without a doubt a tragic hero whose fatal flaw leads to his downfall. In accordance with Aristotle’s theory of tragedy, Anakin’s tragedy is constructed not by personal agency, but by the narrative itself.

Works Cited

“Darth Vader.” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 15 Mar. 2021, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader.

“Dramatic Structure.” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 20 Feb. 2021, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure.

“Hero.” Encyclopaedia Britannica, Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc., 19 Oct. 2016, www.britannica.com/art/hero-literary-and-cultural-figure.

Lucas, George, director. Star Wars: Episode III— Revenge of the Sith. Lucasfilm Ltd., 2005.

Lucas, George, director. Star Wars: Episode II— Attack of the Clones. Lucasfilm Ltd. , 2002.

Michnovetz, Matt. “Star Wars: The Clone Wars, ‘Counterattack.’” Season 3, episode 19, 4 Mar. 2011.

“Sophocles: the Purest Artist.” Encyclopædia Britannica, Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., www.britannica.com/art/tragedy-literature/Sophocles-the-purest-artist.

“Theory of Tragedy.” Encyclopædia Britannica, Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., www.britannica.com/art/tragedy-literature/Theory-of-tragedy.

“Tragic Hero.” Dictionary.com, Dictionary.com, www.dictionary.com/browse/tragic-hero. 

#star wars #Anakin Skywalker #greek tragedy #anakin the tragic hero #meta #so many meta ideas not enough time #wow thanks tumblr formatting for being terrible

[girlfriendsofthegalaxy]

tuesday again 5/4/21

yeah yeah yeah may the fourth be with you whatever this is mostly me rambling disjointedly about the bits and pieces of star wars i crammed into my weekend

i think the star war that is the best-made and most watchable on a technical level (including script) is ESB. however, AOTC is my fuckin favorite bc there’s so much fucking nonsense happening all the the goddamn time. incoherent movie with too many sidequests but it all looks sick as shit

my personal history with star wars is: watched it (like many other movies) juuuuust a little too young with my dad as a Bonding Activity (to the silent fury of my mom) but unfortunately got Really Into It. reading expanded universe novels (nearly all of them, i have almost two hundred of them in boxes in a storage unit) was the thing that kept me alive through high school. never really got into the comics, didn’t pick up any of the post-disney-nuking-the-expanded-universe novels. was horribly disappointed by the sequel trilogy and solo. rogue one is all right. however, the mandalorian (weird and cheesy as it is, also i am not immune to pedro pascal) really got me back into this stupid fucking franchise. so i have been taking a rambling walk through things that i remembered liking. all my fun star wars facts are old and outdated but they sure all do live in my brain

listening ‘General Grievous’ off the ROTS soundtrack. this is i think the beginning of my love for heavy low rumbling undercurrents? would not say this has a ‘groove’ per se but there is definitely a forward momentum. love some ominous brass. love the williams panic-spike strings. LOVE A DANGER WARNING LEITMOTIF

god u listen to the original + prequel soundtracks and then listen to the sequel soundtracks (as i have been doing during working hours for the past week) and i get really sad. should have let him retire in peace. he doesn’t have a ton of gas left.

anyway this is the bit of the movie where obi-wan shows up on utapu (the cool sinkhole planet) with the big lizard bird to fight grievious btw. good fight. why does he flirt with the big robot man when he’s already in a enemies-to-lovers flirtationship with asaaj ventress RIGHT AFTER the duchess of mandalore died in his arms??? who can say. grief makes people do weird things.

reading rebel heist (2014, kindt & castiello). these are some of the few loose single-issue comics i own bc i love the covers so much. i hate dealing with bagged and boarded comics bc they’re a pain to store and they’re honestly a pain to read. gimme a trade paperback any day please. rereading these, i liked them less than i remembered- it’s a cool conceit of following an ordinary person in the rebellion as they get caught up in luke & leia & han & chewie’s schemes, and things of course do eventually turn out fine but not before all these regular people go UHHHH WHAT THE FUCK? WTF WTF WTF NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR at some classic skywalker nonsense. can i just say how much i love these covers again tho

watching star wars: the clone wars ran from 2008 to 2020. i watched the first six seasons with my siblings on starwars.com for most of its run, bc there was a brief period of time (i forget whether it was two days after or ten days after) when you could watch each episode for free and we didn’t have cable until well after i went to college.

the second season is where it really starts to hit its stride- i haven’t gone back to watch anything as an adult but i remember liking a lot of the episodes from this season. as an adult, it’s pretty horrifying to realize how fucking stupid the clone wars were from a loss of life and material gain standpoint.

there’s a two-episode arc about the zillo beast, a big kaiju critter, and i only had enough time to watch the first one. the have to protect the oil planet (sorry, i’m getting a note in) so sorry the FUEL RESERVES on the oil planet, so they drop a giant EMP two miles from the city center, but this isn’t a planet with people that look like humans so it’s fine! the important thing is that the fuel is okay.

anyway, this episode is lovely and moody- this is such a stiff-looking show and wreathing everything in cool purple mist and making sure the silhouettes look good is really doing a lot of the work here

look i just really like this framing. the jedi on a stage above everyone else, waist-deep in blood already from the months-old war, the hint of an imperial symbol in the cannon dish, anakin & mace separated by an interior wall and separate hatches. i’m reading too much into season fucking two of the clone wars but i just think it’s neat.

yes!!! starship fuel SHOULD be bright radioactive green!!! star wars is mostly about things looking sick as shit and it’s part of why i am the way i am now

ok i fucked up on this last screenshot but look. LOOK. this is some peak nonsense right here love it. mwah. star wars is at its heart a melodramatic pulpy swashbuckling science fiction adventure and it gets weird when it forgets that

playing i own fallen order bc it came for free with my pc but i have not cracked it open bc it seems like an assassains creed, a style of game that fucking infuriates me. also i own no other star wars games so this section left intentionally blank

making i make one of these things a year now i guess. this one is finally for me.

#tuesday again #tuesday again no problem #i am cursed to love franchises with horrific fandoms

[jedi-order-apologist]

Hello there! Could you maybe put together small SW novels recommendation list? You reference books often and I assume you can suggest a few good ones that shed light/give more insight into the Jedi culture. Thank you for your blog and have a good day 💗

Thank you! I hope you have a good day too.

I actually haven’t read that many Star Wars books, all things considered - there are a lot, and I’ve barely scratched the surface of the prequel era stuff, let alone the rest of the franchise. I only recently started getting into the books, and there’s probably a lot more really good ones out there that I just haven’t had the chance to get to yet.

What I could do is go through what I have read and give my opinions on those. So far, in no particular order, I’ve read:

- The novelizations for the prequels and some of the original novelizations for the OT. More on my thoughts on those here (and specifically for the ROTS novelization here), but in summary: TPM novelization is a bit weak, AOTC novelization is decent and really helped sell the romance to me in a way the film fell flat for me, ROTS novelization is nothing short of phenomenal, ROTJ novelization is also pretty good, I don’t remember the ESB novelization enough to say anything on it, and I never read the ANH (or technically just Star Wars) novelization. I’d say they’re worth checking out at least once.

- Shatterpoint. I really like this one, it deals a lot with Mace struggling with the dark side, and it captures the idea of falling to the dark side as something rooted in defeatism, which really resonates with my interpretation. There’s quite a bit of discussion of Jedi philosophy and why they do and believe the things they do (or at least how Mace Windu sees it) - I’ve cited it before in my meta because I think it lays out pretty well why they resist the dark side. It also deals a lot with the costs of war - especially psychologically. There’s also a decent element of Jedi as family through the father-daughter relationship of Mace and Depa. On top of all of that, it’s very well written (same author as the ROTS novelization). I strongly recommend this one, though be warned that it is a very heavy, brutal book - oh, it’s not completely bleak, and it has it’s moments of humor, but it is not a happy story. It ends in victory, both in the immediate situation, and with Mace coming to terms with some of what he’d been struggling with, but I wouldn’t call it a happy ending, more that…well, as Mace says, he’s the last one standing.

- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous. I read this one most recently, and I made a long post on why I absolutely loved it. It’s not perfect but I think it’s the best portrayal of the Jedi in the books that I’ve come across so far - this book really goes hard on the “Jedi as family” idea, which I love, and there are really good conversations on (and inspiring examples of resisting) the dark side, and working through but not giving into grief. Everyone should read this book, it shows the Jedi as an inspiring people with so much tenacity and compassion, doing their best. And it eviscerates every bit of nonsense about the Jedi (and especially Yoda) being “emotionless” or “loveless”- it’s full of amazing passages that are absolutely perfect responses to these notions, direct refutations of them even (as well as refutations about the idea of the dark side having any kind of merit at all) because they get slung around in the story by a lot of the characters. If I could only pick one Star Wars book to suggest someone read, it would be this one, absolutely.

- Kenobi. Do you like Westerns and a sad Obi-Wan with a chronic hero syndrome that doesn’t help him with the whole ‘staying under the radar’ thing? If yes, you will probably like this book. It doesn’t really get much into Jedi culture, since…well, they’re dead, and most of the book is written from an outside perspective, not Obi-Wan’s. I think that was a good choice, because while he’s understandably going to be very sad during this time (it takes place during his very early days on Tatooine), constant exposure to that, in my opinion, would overdo it and wear out the audience. So the outside perspective of how sad and weird he is, where the characters don’t understand the context behind his behavior, but the audience does, works really well. I have some issues with it - for instance, while it’s kind of hilarious how much everyone wants to jump his bones in this book, I do wish that they’d kept the chemistry between Obi-Wan and Annileen strictly platonic (and the language around romance in this book rubs me the wrong way). And how people find out his last name is a bit contrived. But it’s a decent read that I’d recommend.

- Jedi Apprentice (series). I’d recommend this with the caveat that you have to go into it keeping in mind that it’s written for younger readers. Which absolutely does NOT mean it’s all fluff and sunshine and rainbows, very far from it (I call this series “Obi-Wan Kenobi’s Collection of Childhood Trauma” for some very good reasons, and the fact that he tries to sacrifice himself to suicide-bomb a door open with the slave collar wrapped around his neck before he even gets taken on as a padawan is just one of them), but there’s a lot of stuff that…doesn’t feel like it was explored fully to an adult reader’s satisfaction. It has a lot of the usual kind of fridge logic that often comes into play with kids’ media, and while it was written to be favorable towards the Jedi, that fridge stuff gets taken by fandom as reasons to criticize the Jedi quite often. More on that here.

- Cloak of Deception. This one’s…okay? It does spend quite a bit of time with the Jedi, but it feels pretty surface level. Luceno’s strength is in the fantasy space politics; for whatever reason his character interactions always fall flat for me, though I’m not sure if I can articulate why they’re so unsatisfying to me outside of a handful of good moments. But if you’re looking for a look into the politics leading up to TPM (or at least, Legends take on it), this is (one of) the books to look at. I say one of because I actually read Darth Plagueis first, and there is a bit of overlap.

- The Approaching Storm. This is the lead-in book to AOTC. It does a decent job with a look at the Jedi, I think, with a few snags (Barriss straight-up heals brain damage/mental illness to the point of complete personality changes, which seems way outside Jedi abilities to me, and there’s a bit of “maybe we shouldn’t take people from their families” angle instead of the Jedi as family angle). Also for some reason it refers to Barriss and Luminara as humans. And while the book tells us a lot about how important it is that the Jedi negotiate this conflict, most of their actual obstacles are getting places, with the negotiation itself getting glossed over. But it was a decent read, I think.

- Labyrinth of Evil. This is another Luceno book, this time for leading up to ROTS. The character interactions worked a little better here - or at least they had more of their moments - Anakin basically going “Marriage what marriage I don’t see a marriage” in front of Obi-Wan was pretty damn funny…and everyone knows the “infinite sadness” line that follows off of that. I’ll be curious as to what the current continuity gives us for what set off the invasion of Coruscant, because this (as part of Legends) gave us a pretty good reason for it. I’d recommend it, again, for the examination of the political situation, and there’s some decent action in here too. There’s a few insights into the Jedi but it’s hit or miss whether I agree with them, and they’re not the focus.

- Darth Plagueis. This one’s probably the best of Luceno’s books (that I’ve read), but it’s not Jedi-friendly. Most of that’s because, well…it’s from the Sith’s perspective, so they’re not going to be very pro-Jedi. I’m mostly okay with that because a lot of their criticism of the Jedi is very clearly coming from an obviously bad faith position (”the Jedi let the Republic decay” the Sith say as they devour a man’s heart and talk about how the Sith need to make all the problems of the Republic worse), although there’s one scene at the end that I really don’t like because it appears to really claim that the Jedi would’ve told Anakin to never talk about his mother, which doesn’t match up with, well, AOTC, for one thing, or just my impression of them in general. But what this book does do well is a look at how the Sith influenced the political situation, and a lot of midichlorian lore (seriously, this book feels like a middle finger to prequel hate - “oh you thought the fantasy space politics were boring? You thought midichlorians were stupid? Here’s why you’re wrong”). Luceno’s way of doing character interactions actually serves this book really well, because the Sith are able to be written as the focus characters without making them sympathetic in the least. If you’re looking to get invested in characters, probably not the book for you, but if you’re looking for fantasy space politics, it’s pretty good.

- Rogue Planet. This one has a good interpretation of the Jedi, I think, though you do have to contend with the “written before AOTC” issue of authors not realizing that Jedi weren’t supposed to get married and have children. But I liked the look at how they handled discipline - Anakin gets in trouble, and he’s brought before the Council, and the whole process is about questioning him to get him to realize and admit what he did wrong, not punishment. They then make the decision to redirect his energy into something productive by sending him and Obi-Wan on a mission. Also, Anakin sees a Jedi therapist at the end of this book, so it’s a good one to throw back at anyone who claims that the Jedi never helped him or that the Jedi don’t do therapy. But…plot-wise…it’s a little weak, mostly in that not much is resolved because it’s mostly setting up for stuff that won’t pay off until much, much further down the line (as in, whenever the Yuuzhan-Vong show up). The ship-growing thing was cool though.

- Wild Space. If you’re looking for a ridiculously dramatic Obi-Wan whump fic that’s one step away from sticking Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padmé, and Bail in a foursome, this is the book for you. If you’re looking for things like accurate characterization, an interpretation of the Jedi consistent with the films, believable interpersonal communication, or an actual plot…you will be sorely disappointed by this book.

- Clone Wars Gambit: Stealth. This is the sequel to Wild Space. It has a second part, Clone Wars Gambit: Siege, which I have not been able to bring myself to read, which probably tells you all you need to know about my thoughts on the first one, though you can read more about them here. In short, I strongly do not recommend this book at all, and find it to be pretty terrible characterization (even though it’s played for sympathy) of the Jedi and especially Obi-Wan. Wild Space at least has absurdity going for it. Stealth does not.

And that’s it! That’s all I’ve read so far. I’m sure not everyone will agree with my opinions, but in terms of my personal recommendations/non-recommendations, this is what I have.

#book recommendations #or not recommendations as the case may be #discussion #jedi #on jedi culture #Anonymous

[padawanlost]

with so much official stuff made by different people, how familiar are you with individual writing patterns/biases of various sw authors (novelizations, legends/canon novels, essays, tv scripts, et cetera)? one post mentioned jude watson's love of obi-wan & less-favourable depictions of anakin & qui-gon in her books. how'd you compare her biases or writers like matthew stover, karen miller, or any others? which writers tend to "match up" most with how you'd prefer to interpret the characters? :D

omg, that’s such a good question! I think it becomes very clear when you get used to the EU that each writer like to explore a certain aspect of the story. Jude Watson is famous for portraying an Anakin that’s always on a verge of becoming Vader even when he was a little kid.  Karen Traviss has a passion for Mandalore culture, war and politics. And Stover *loves* Obi-wan. 

Personally, I don’t see that as a problem. Some fans tend to point figures (specially at Traviss for focusing on the morality of war) to say something shouldn’t be considered because a ‘biased’ writer is behind it. As someone who have read most of it multiple times, I believe this divergence makes the story more complex and the characters more human. Anakin wasn’t always a saint, the Jedi weren’t always flawed and Obi-wan wasn’t always perfect. When we face the fact these character weren’t just ONE THING it becomes easier to accept their humanity. When a writer tells me Anakin was innocent and another tells me anakin had darkness inside, I can accept both as true because that’s reality. That’s what well-written stories should be all about: portraying character that feel real. The only difference is that the EU explores different aspects of the story through different authors. 

We all have soft spots for our favorite characters and so do writers. It’s naïve to expect them to have the same view as the us (especially considering not even their readers agree on the characters motivations). That’s why I prefer to see each writer’s ‘bias’ as a different view, instead of going “they hate the character I love’.  That’s also why I don’t have only one writer that encapsulates everything I love about sw. 

Stover is the best at exploring the poetic tragedy of the fall of the Republic. He’s the ability to show the characters flaws without making them unsympathetic. He’s best at ‘Obi-wan is suffering’ themes. 

Traviss is the best at asking the important questions about slavery, the clone army and corruption. She’s not subtle about it but she’s effective. If you want a conversation on the horrors of war, her books are the best place to start. Watson, despite getting at little too heavy handed something, is really good at exploring Anakin’s internal struggle. Her Anakin is dark, angry and selfish but he’s also lonely, isolated and secretly suffering. She loves Obi-wan but she still shows the readers how unprepared he was for the taks of raising Anakin. Luceno also focuses on politics but takes a subtler approach. His Anakin reminds me a lot of AOTC!Anakin. He’s young and experienced at the same time.

Miller wrote my favorite sw books so I should say she’s my favorite writer too, even if she didn’t cover all the phases of Anakin’s life. Her Anakin, imo, is a perfect mix of all the above. He is kind, dark, angry, emotional, romantic, selfish, etc. and she writes this without making the other characters look bad. She’s balanced. Everyone has good and bad moments/traits. 

Honestly, I’m fine with the content we have. Thanks to their different views the EU provides a richer experience. I don’t think I’d have enjoyed it as much as I do if every writer explored the same themes the same way. I think one writer complements the other and when we put all their works together we get a rich, complex history that got us talking many years later.

Seriously, it’s amazing how cohesive they are considering how scattered the EU can be. Even with each other taking a different approach the story still flows naturally. We don’t have cases where one writer claims Anakin used to torture kittens as a kid as another claims he was mini-saint. They all agree anakin was good, they only diverge on how that goodness was translated into actions. And I’m fine with that because even if some writers goes a little further – like Jude Watson with Anakin’s darkness – their creative choice is backed by the preexisting canon (Anakin’s darkness as a kid was a result the isolation and trauma, as written by others).

When I think of the Prequels I think of Anakin’s story from birth to Vader. Each writer represents a step he took and though some steps are more compelling than others, I would never remove single one.

#ask #celestialily #sw meta #sw books #txt #meta: fandom

[padme-amitabha]

Is Anakin and Vader the same person?

I think I have talked about this before but I’ll reiterate the main points.

Of course they are the same person at different points in life. I don’t choose to follow Disney’s interpretation of anything about Star Wars. They hire writers and pay them to write their own fanfiction and interpretation and it’s far from George’s vision so I don’t see any reason to. Only 1-6 movies are canon to me with few exceptions such as 2003 Clone Wars and a few legends material but I’ll always put more emphasis on the movies.

Now from Revenge of the Sith movie we see Anakin become Vader (and by that I mean undergoing a surgery and being put into the suit). While the mask is being lowered we can see the fear in his eyes and his face is still recognizable. Fast forward 23 years and there’s no reason to believe he’s a different person. The only time he talks about his name is when Luke brings it up and he says “that name no longer has any meaning for me” not “I destroyed Anakin” or something similar to that. He is completely right because obviously it doesn’t hold any meaning for him - everyone who called him and knew him by that name (Shmi, Obi-Wan and Padmé) were all dead and his master called him Vader. And he had gotten used to the name in over two decades. Also, Palpatine probably preferred that he distance himself from his past hence referring to Luke as “the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.” Vader wasn’t a personality; it was just a new name he went by and since the mention of his real name brought back unpleasant memories he tried not to think of himself as the same person as a coping mechanism. This is why Vader tells Luke it’s too late for him to redeem himself - because he knows he commited some terrible deeds and hurt his loved ones and he can’t ever take that back. If he wasn’t Anakin, he wouldn’t feel that guilt or remorse for Anakin’s wife and mentor.

It’s the same as Padmé in TPM really - we see Padmé first as Queen Amidala who is a regal authoritative figure and then we see her true self when she’s in disguise.

Anakin winced, then quickly picked up another holograph, this one showing Padmé a couple of years later, wearing official robes and standing between two older and similarly robed Legislators. He looked back at the first holo, then to this one, noting that Padmé’s expression seemed much more severe here. “My first day as an Apprentice Legislator,” Padmé explained.

Then, as if she was reading his mind, she added, “See the difference?” Anakin studied the holograph a moment longer, then looked up and laughed, seeing Padmé wearing that same long and stern expression. She laughed as well, then squeezed his shoulder and went back to her packing.

Anakin put the holographs down side by side and looked at them for a long, long time. Two sides of the woman he loved.

This is from the AOTC novelization and this can be applied to Anakin as well. (More about similarities between Darth Vader and Queen Amidala in this post.) Just like Queen Amidala is really Padmé Naberrie, in the same way Darth Vader is really just Anakin Skywalker.

The reason why he has a different demeanor in OT is mostly due to his age and because he had years to adapt to his new persona. Vader in ROTS didn’t immediately become all stoic and impassive - he got very emotional on hearing Padmé’s death just like he would as Anakin. Vader isn’t some kind of demon possessing Anakin - Vader is Anakin after he has lost everything and he isn’t holding back as he did as a Jedi. It sounds very poetic to state both Anakin and Padmé died on the same day but Anakin truly didn’t though. Anakin lived on for years and died a redeemed man on the death star. The ROTS novelization supports this and it was approved by Lucas so it’s authentic to me.

And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker.

That it was all you. Is you.

Only you.

You did it.

You killed her.

You killed her because, finally, when you could have saved her, when you could have gone away with her, when you could have been thinking about her, you were thinking about yourself …

I do think it was Anakin who choked Padmé on Mustafar even though some people like to blame it on “Vader”. Anakin was unhinged on Mustafar but even in the beginning of ROTS, he was beginning to show some aggression. Though people complain the first part of ROTS is slow and too much happens in the latter half and he falls too suddenly, that’s not the case. This moment has been building up from the very first movie to the first half of ROTS. The fall isn’t just that one action of attacking Mace Windu, he was gradually falling to the dark side for years starting from his mother’s death and he only made the actual decision in the rumination scene. That’s when he finally sheds a tear and makes the conscious decision to join the dark side.

For the record, I think conflict has always been a part of Anakin Skywalker. The prequels portray him in a negative light, particularly in the last two films. Anakin in the movies is a very, very flawed individual and even meant to be unlikable at times. He struggles with his emotions, he struggles to communicate with others and he struggle to fit in the order. I wouldn’t say he was mentally stable either - he could be unpredictable and his actions depend on his mood. But the movies also show the good aspects of him, especially about people he cared about. He even starts off as a kid with a good heart. The conflict and his flaws cause him to fall to the dark side and his good qualities (like selflessness and loyalty when it comes to family) ultimately redeem him. 

So I don’t think “Anakin” was the good side of him and “Vader” was the dark side. Vader is Anakin after he has lost everything he cared about and since he is not a Jedi anymore he is no longer required to hold back on anything. Ambition and desire to rule the galaxy is often associated with “Vader” but I think people forget Anakin was just as ambitious and in ROTS being denied the rank of Master deeply upsets him and increases his resentment towards the Jedi. He admitted that he wanted more in ROTS even though he knows he shouldn’t. He also told Padmé in AOTC that he would prefer dictatorship over democracy so it’s not like his ideals changed either. Vader until he discovered he had a son had no interest in ruling the galaxy. Later on he essentially offered Luke the same choice he gave Padmé on Mustafar. From the conversation in AOTC, it seems he’s more dissatisfied with the system and being from a lawless and harsh world he sees dictatorship as the solution. While he doesn’t want to actively take part in it, he wants to enforce the system which is exactly what he does later on (and perhaps he preferred leaving the actual ruling bit to Padmé or Luke). I don’t see Vader as “evil” - I mean the only times he killed people were for failure and he did keep Admiral Piett alive since he proved to be competent. Vader in OT (when Luke isn’t concerned) is just doing his job and punishing inefficient people who aren’t letting him do his job. He only serves the emperor and does his bidding. After Luke rejects his offer, Vader still plans to seek him out but in ROTJ his resolve definitely grew weaker and it’s more like he’s imploring him to reconsider than being forceful. 

Anakin as we have seen in AOTC is very much capable of mass murder (and confessed that he felt they deserved it) so should he really be defined as the good side? You could even argue as Vader he killed people for legitimate reasons whereas Anakin killed defenseless people when he was blinded by rage. And even in ROTS he kills Dooku as revenge. I’m not saying Anakin is evil (that would be grossly oversimplying things); I am saying he was a complex character. The reason why he turned out the way he is has already been explored in the prequels but I also believe it’s a combination of nature and nurture. Anakin as a child has a good heart, wants to help others and free the slaves but in TPM script/novelization he lashes out at a Rodian who claims he won the race by cheating, meaning he didn’t handle accusation very well. It might be dismissed as a childish reaction but we see he struggled to control his temper in later years as well. A person has both good and bad qualities and that’s the case with Anakin here, though his negative traits were expressed more. But the prequels are all about exploring his downfall so it was necessary to highlight them. 

Anakin to me was never a “hero” who fell to the dark side due to circumstances; he was a complex character who made some hard choices. If the roles were reversed and Padmé was the Jedi with Anakin’s life at risk, I don’t think she would go that far to commit murder. Sure Palpatine is very manipulative but at the same time he understood that it was in Anakin’s nature to be manipulated very easily. You need to have some form of fear, insecurity and resentment in you for someone to utilize them. 

I blame TCW, Rebels and the fanboyish Marvel comics for dissociating Anakin from Vader. “Anakin Skywalker was weak, I destroyed him” again makes him very one-dimensional than accepting the fact that people can be morally complex. Not to mention the Marvel comics’ tendency to make him react violently and unnecessarily ruthless to prove he isn’t Anakin drastically reduces his character depth for me. It may also have to do with the fact that movie Anakin was not well-received so they are trying to distance him from Darth Vader, whom fanboys worship. Anakin’s story is incomplete without Vader - he made a choice to embrace the dark side and sacrifice his morality so like the tragic hero he is, he has to suffer and face the consequences for his actions. Similarly, Vader’s story is incomplete without Anakin - without Anakin he is a faceless man. Sure he’s mysterious but without his past we would not know what a complex character he was or sympathise with him.

If Vader wasn’t really Anakin, he wouldn’t have felt remorse for his actions or believe it was too late for him. If he wasn’t Anakin he wouldn’t refer to Luke as his son and if he was so desperate to erase any trace of Anakin, he would have definitely killed Luke as he was a reminder of his past. It was Vader who saved Luke in the end and while it is fine to figuratively say “Anakin was back”, taking it literally undermines his sacrifice. It takes a lot to come back from the dark side, face your demons and after being that way for decades, attempt to redeem yourself when you believe you’re far too gone. He redeemed himself as an old man after a long life full of sorrow and regrets, which also sounds much better than saying “he was evil no longer” and that “Anakin was back”. It makes everything seem black and white and the prequels were essentially all about exploring the gray area. Luke didn’t even know “Anakin” and really where was Anakin when “Vader” cut off his hand? Or fought him? Vader’s inner struggle was between accepting he was far too gone and going on as he did for years, and accepting change, letting it go and forgiving himself for his son’s sake - not a struggle between two personalities fighting to take control. If they were different personalities, Anakin wouldn’t have almost all of Vader’s qualities; he wouldn’t be morally conflicted both as Anakin and Vader. George said the reason why he later replaced his force ghost as a younger version was because he stopped being Anakin after he fell to the dark side and I have to say that’s the only time I disagree with George because Anakin in prequels still had dark tendencies so I do believe Vader never stopped being Anakin hence the original version with the old force ghost made more sense to me and the new version does rob some of the depth from his character. I’m sure George has his reasons - he might have wished to preserve the black and white simplicity of the OT but after the complexity of the prequels, it seems more appropriate for the saga to have a more imperfect, realistic ending. In retrospect, it seems to me they are very much the same person when you study his personality and consider his whole life, which was full of ups and downs.

#ask #my thoughts #anakin skywalker #darth vader

[antianakin]

Do you think it’s a common thing in the fandom (especially when writing fan-works featuring the Skywalker Father-Son Duo(TM)) to give Anakin a lot of Luke’s more noble and good attributes and act like he’s been like that the whole time, and give Luke some of Anakin’s worse attributes to make Anakin seem more centrist compared canon Luke and the “old Jedi” (quotes used ironically)?

Cause as a kid I loved Anakin for many of the reasons I now realize don’t apply to him at all, and moreso apply to Luke, and it’s really getting irritating to look up cool Luke fic and realize that this has been done to ma boi. What do you think?

I gotta be honest, I don't think I read enough fics with that dynamic in it to be able to say with any degree of certainty whether that's true or not.

What I will say is that I think fic writers who like Anakin tend to smooth him out a LOT and, yes, give him traits that are more applicable to other characters in order to make him likable. And in fairness, that's exactly what TCW did as well by effectively just giving him Obi-Wan's personality and erasing some of his less likable characteristics from the films.

Because Anakin is... a difficult character in many ways. The core of him is fear, so there's a tendency to want to sympathize with him, but what gets ignored is that Anakin is 1000% a fascist by AOTC, someone who can and will let himself be filled with enough anger to commit a massacre of an entire village down to the last child, and someone who is perfectly fine with pressuring a woman into a relationship with him. None of that is necessarily fun to write and it's hard to write Anakin as a sympathetic character if those things are kept in mind. So they just get... smoothed away. He's not REALLY a fascist, he's just confused or brainwashed and one good conversation with someone can completely fix that little problem. Anakin isn't pressuring Padme, he just could tell that she was into him and he TOTALLY would back off if Padme said no. The Tuskens deserved it anyway! So on and so forth.

Luke, by contrast, is a very easy character. There's a reason he gets labeled "sunshine boy" by the fandom and his struggles with anger get sort-of... forgotten and overlooked in favor of just seeing him as this easy, likable, charming farmboy. He's sweet and honorable and passionate. He IS a lot like Anakin in many ways, and that's deliberate. Fandom has taken a turn recently towards wanting Leia to be like Anakin and Luke to be like Padme, and there's reasons to make that comparison, but Luke's similarities to Anakin are very deliberately there in the narrative for a reason. Luke has to struggle with anger and fear and be filled with righteous passion because that's exactly what Anakin struggled with and Luke's ability to overcome that in a way Anakin never could is what makes the entire story interesting and meaningful.

Luke also is one of those characters who tends to get handed the "grey Jedi" label which tends to lead to Luke choosing to look down on the Prequels Jedi and decreeing that attachments are totally fine actually and HIS Jedi aren't going to be repressed anymore blah blah blah. And this does come from fans who have fallen into the fandom osmosis hole of "the Prequels are about the Jedi's failure" and have twisted the entire Skywalker Saga around that theory, including Luke's journey. And part of that theory tends to be a lot more sympathetic towards Anakin, as well. If only the Jedi had been more understanding and less oppressive, Anakin wouldn't have fallen. So it's not shocking that fans who are writing from that perspective are going to make Anakin seem softer and more sympathetic.

So yeah, sure, it's entirely possible that some fic writers are choosing to give Anakin more of Luke's nobler characteristics in order to help smooth him out and make him easier to like, while giving Luke some of Anakin's more arrogant or dismissive traits in order to make those traits seem more "centrist." I don't think it's something that ONLY happens with Luke and Anakin, though. Like I said, TCW gave Anakin most of Obi-Wan's traits and then tossed a few of Anakin's onto Obi-Wan, as well. I think you could make an argument that we're seeing some of that happen with Ahsoka, too.

I wish I could offer you some Luke fic recs, so instead I will simply say I hope you find some good ones that feel like they're more in character!

#star wars #luke skywalker #anti anakin #anakin critical #anti anakin skywalker #anakin skywalker critical

[gffa]

OKAY, IF I’M GONNA DO THIS, I’M GONNA DO IT PROPERLY.  WHICH MEANS YEAH IT’S GONNA GET REALLY LONG. A couple of things to say ahead of time:  Lucasfilm’s Story Group has always said CANON > WORD OF GOD when it comes to these matters, so when I quote canon examples from supplementary materials that contradict what he says, that’s LF’s official position, but that doesn’t mean that an influential person like Dave’s views couldn’t affect how things will be shaped in the future, like Deborah Chow listening to this may be influenced by it on the Obi-Wan show, despite that Master & Apprentice contradicts him.  It’s an incredibly murky area!  Mileages are going to vary.   Another thing to keep in mind is that Dave Filoni never worked on The Phantom Menace, that was long, long before his time at Lucasfilm (which I think he joined sometime around 2007? and TPM was released in 1999), that he has worked with George more than probably anyone else, but we cannot and should not treat him as infallible or the True Authority on things, because even Dave himself has said things like: “I mean, I know why I did that and what it means, but I don't like to explain too much. I love for the viewers to watch stuff and come up with their own theories -- and they frankly come up with better things that I intended.”  --Dave Filoni, Entertainment Tonight 2020 interview Or, in the same episode as the above Qui-Gon interpretation:

So, when I dig into this, I’m not doing this out of a sense of malice or even that I suddenly hate Dave or don’t appreciate all the incredible things he’s brought to SW, but in that I disagree with his take, Dave understands that he doesn’t always get it right, that he enjoys that fans come up with different things than he does and sometimes he likes those even more.  There’s room for both of us and, for all that Dave mentions George a lot (and, hey, fair enough, the guy worked with George and I’m just quoting what George Lucas has said) doesn’t mean that this is straight from George, especially because I have never seen George Lucas utter so much as a peep about how the Jedi were responsible for Anakin’s fall.  He has explicitly and frequently talked about how Anakin’s fall was his own choice, as well as I’ve never seen him say anything Jedi-critical beyond “they were kind of arrogant about themselves”.  I have read and watched every George Lucas interview I could get my hands on and maybe I’m still missing something, but that’s literally the extent of him criticizing the Jedi I have EVER seen. (It’s from the commentary on AOTC where he put in the scene with Jocasta to show they were full of themselves, but I also think it’s fair to point out that Obi-Wan immediately contradicts this by going to Dex for help, showing that it’s not necessarily a Jedi-wide thing.) Before I go further, I want to say:  this is not a post meant to tear down Qui-Gon, he is a character I actually really do love, but the focus is on showing why the above interpretation of him is wrong, which means focusing on Qui-Gon’s flaws. He has many wonderful qualities, he is someone who cared deeply and was a good person, I think things would have been better had he lived!  But Anakin’s choices did not hinge on him, because Anakin’s choices were Anakin’s, that has always been the consistent theme of how George talks about him, the way he talks about the story is always in terms of “Anakin did this” or “Anakin chose that”, and the Jedi are very consistently shown as caring, they believed very much in love and Dave’s own show (well, I say “his own show”, but honestly TCW was George’s baby primarily and he had a lot of direct, hands-on say in crafting it, through at least the first five seasons) is plenty of evidence of that. I’m not going to quote the full thing because this is already a monster post, I’m just going to focus on the Jedi stuff, because I like the other points a lot, but if you want the full text, it’s here.  The relevant part is: “In Phantom Menace, you’re watching these two Jedi in their prime fight this evil villain. Maul couldn’t be more obviously the villain. He’s designed to look evil, and he is evil, and he just expresses that from his face all the way out to the type of lightsaber he fights with. What’s at stake is really how Anakin is going to turn out. Because Qui-Gon is different than the rest of the Jedi and you get that in the movie; and Qui-Gon is fighting because he knows he’s the father that Anakin needs. Because Qui-Gon hasn’t given up on the fact that the Jedi are supposed to actually care and love and that’s not a bad thing. The rest of the Jedi are so detached and they become so political that they’ve really lost their way and Yoda starts to see that in the second film. But Qui-Gon is ahead of them all and that’s why he’s not part of the council. So he’s fighting for Anakin and that’s why it’s the ‘Duel of the Fates’ – it’s the fate of this child. And depending on how this fight goes, Anakin, his life is going to be dramatically different. “So Qui-Gon loses, of course. So the father figure, he knew what it meant to take this kid away from his mother when he had an attachment, and he’s left with Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan trains Anakin at first out of a promise he makes to Qui-Gon, not because he cares about him. When they get Anakin, they find him on Tatooine, he says “Why do I feel like we’ve found another useless lifeform?” He’s comparing Anakin to Jar Jar and he’s saying “this is a waste of our time, why are we doing this, why do you see importance in these creatures like Jar Jar Binks and this ten-year-old boy? This is useless.” “So, he’s a brother to Anakin eventually but he’s not a father figure. That’s a failing for Anakin. He doesn’t have the family that he needs. He loses his mother in the next film. He fails on this promise that he made, “mother, I’m going to come back and save you”. So he’s left completely vulnerable and Star Wars is ultimately about family. So that moment in that movie which a lot of people I think diminish, “oh there’s a cool lightsaber fight”, but it’s everything that the entire three films of the prequels hangs on, is that one particular fight. And Maul serves his purpose and at that point died before George made me bring him back, but he died.“  --Dave Filoni  I’m going to take this a piece at a time to show why I really disagree with the content of both the movies and The Clone Wars supporting what Dave says and, instead, contradicts it a lot. The rest of the Jedi are so detached and they become so political that they’ve really lost their way and Yoda starts to see that in the second film. He doesn’t explain what this means, but I’m pretty sure that he’s referring to this conversation: OBI-WAN: “I am concerned for my Padawan. He is not ready to be given this assignment on his own yet.” YODA: “The Council is confident in its decision, Obi-Wan.” MACE WINDU: “The boy has exceptional skills.” OBI-WAN: “But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him... well.... arrogant.” YODA: “Yes, yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Hmm... too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones.” MACE WINDU: “Remember, Obi-Wan, if the prophecy is true, your apprentice is the only one who can bring the Force back into balance.” OBI-WAN: "If he follows the right path.” None of that has anything to do with being “detached” and, further, I think this is something that’s come up with Dave’s view of Luminara a lot, because he’s described her (re: the Geonosis arc):  “We were trying to illustrate the difference between the way Anakin is raising his Padawan, and how much he cares about her, and the way Luminara raises her Padawan. Not that Luminara is indifferent, but that Luminara is detached. It’s not that she doesn’t care, but she’s not attached to her emotionally.” Here, he says that the Jedi care, in the above, he says that the Jedi don’t care, which makes me think there’s a lot of characterization drift as time goes on, especially when fandom bombards everyone with the idea that the Jedi were cold, emotionless, and didn’t care.  However, look at Luminara’s face in that arc, when she’s talking with Anakin:

That is not the face of someone who doesn’t care.  She even smiles brightly in relief when Barriss is shown to be okay, that this really doesn’t convey “detached” in an unloving or uncaring way.  (We’ll get to attachment later, that’s definitely coming.) (I’m also mostly skipping the political thing, because I think that’s just a fundamental disagreement of whether Jedi should or should not lean into politics.  My view basically boils down to that I think ALL OF US should be leaning more into politics because we are citizens who live in the world and are responsible for it, and the Jedi are no different.  This is evidenced by:  - M&A’s storyline has Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan saving the day specifically because they play politics, that’s how they manage to free the slaves, through playing politics and being part of the Republic/having Senate backing. - The Clone Wars has shown that the Jedi believe “lasting change can only come from within” and “it’s every citizen’s duty to hold their leaders accountable” when Ahsoka teaches the cadets on Mandalore, as well as that politics are not inherently bad, given that Padme and Bail are working to make the system better or “create lasting change from within [the system]” - "Trying to serve the greater good does not always make you popular” says Padme Amidala in a very caring speech - Star Wars Propaganda makes the case that the Jedi might have won the war had they leaned more into politics. - Sometimes the Jedi get unfairly accused of playing politics when there’s just no good choice and they still have to choose one or the other.) But Qui-Gon is ahead of them [re: caring and loving] all and that’s why he’s not part of the council. This is flat-out wrong in regards to canon.  Mileages are going to vary, of course, on how much one takes a novel into consideration, but Dave Filoni is not a fan with the luxury of deciding what is or isn’t canon, he works on Star Wars where canon is canon.  Now, does that mean canon will never contradict itself, especially if Dave gets to write something for Qui-Gon?  Of course not, SW isn’t immune to continuity errors and they themselves have never said otherwise, even when fans want to hold them to that standard. However, this is still pretty much a big “that’s not what happened” instance.  In Master & Apprentice, the Jedi Council offer a seat to Qui-Gon on the Council, specifically BECAUSE he has different opinions from them and they welcome that.  (Excerpt here.)      “We hope it will also be our gain,” Mace replied. “Qui-Gon Jinn, we hereby offer you a seat on the Jedi Council.”      Had he misheard? No, he hadn’t. Qui-Gon slowly gazed around the circle, taking in the expressions of each Council member in turn. Some of them looked amused, others pleased. A few of them, Yoda included, appeared more rueful than not. But they were serious.      “I admit—you’ve surprised me,” Qui-Gon finally said.“I imagine so,” Mace said drily. “A few years ago, we would’ve been astonished to learn we would ever consider this. But in the time since, we’ve all changed. We’ve grown. Which means the possibilities have changed as well.”      Qui-Gon took a moment to collect himself. Without any warning, one of the turning points of his life had arrived. Everything he said and did in the next days would be of great consequence. “You’ve argued with my methods often as not, or perhaps you’d say I’ve argued with yours.”      “Truth, this is,” Yoda said.      Depa Billaba gave Yoda a look Qui-Gon couldn’t interpret. “It’s also true that the Jedi Council needs more perspectives.” Ultimately, Qui-Gon is the who turns them down and gives up a chance to shape the Jedi Council because he doesn’t like the shape they’re taking.  That he does become less political, but this is after he’s argued that the Jedi should be working to push the Senate harder, so when he has a chance to help with that, he turns it down.  It has nothing to do with caring and loving, it’s about Qui-Gon’s desire to not have to deal with the work himself, when he wants to be more of a hippie Jedi.  (I’ve written a lot about Qui-Gon in M&A, why I actually think it’s really spot-on to someone who can be both really kind and really kind of a dick, but it’s not the most flattering portrayal, even if narrative intention likely didn’t mean what came across to me.  I think this post and this post are probably the most salient ones, but if you want something of an index of the web that’s being woven with all the various media, this one is good, too.) So he’s fighting for Anakin and that’s why it’s the ‘Duel of the Fates’ – it’s the fate of this child. And depending on how this fight goes, Anakin, his life is going to be dramatically different. I have only ever seen George Lucas talk about Anakin’s fate in one instance and it’s this:  “It’s fear of losing somebody he loves, which is the flipside of greed. Greed, in terms of the Emperor, it’s the greed for power, absolute power, over everything. With Anakin, really it’s the power to save the one he loves, but it’s basically going against the Fates and what is natural.“ –George Lucas, Revenge of the Sith commentary I’ve made my case about why I think Anakin’s fate is about that moment in Palpatine’s office, and so I’m not fundamentally opposed that “Duel of the Fates” is about Anakin’s fate, but here’s what George has provably said about the “Duel of the Fates” part of the story: - In the commentary for The Phantom Menace during “Duel of the Fates” and none of Dave’s speculation is even hinted at, there’s more focus on the technical side of things and the most George talks about is that it’s Obi-Wan who parallels Luke in going over the edge during the fight, except that instead of a Sith cutting off a Jedi’s hand, it’s a Jedi cutting a Sith in half, drawing the parallels between them. - He does say of the funeral scene that this is where Obi-Wan commits to training Anakin and how everything is going to go (though, in canon we see that Obi-Wan still struggles with this a bit, but Yoda is there to support him and nudge him into committing even more to Anakin, because the Jedi are a supportive community to each other).  This is some solid evidence for that Obi-Wan is already caring about Anakin beyond just Qui-Gon. - Then here’s what he says about the “Duel of the Fates” fights and themes of them in "All Films Are Personal": George Lucas: “I wanted to come up with an apprentice for the Emperor who was striking and tough. We hadn’t seen a Sith Lord before, except for Vader, of course. I wanted to convey the idea that Jedi are all very powerful, but they’re also vulnerable — which is why I wanted to kill Qui-Gon. That is to say, “Hey, these guys aren’t Superman.” These guys are people who are vulnerable, just like every other person. “We needed to establish that, but at the same time, we wanted the ultimate sword fight, because they were all very good. It sort of predisposes the sword fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan later on. There’s real purpose to it. You have to establish the rules and then stick with them. The scene illustrates just how Jedi and Sith fight and use lightsabers.” “So Qui-Gon loses, of course. So the father figure, he knew what it meant to take this kid away from his mother when he had an attachment, and he’s left with Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan trains Anakin at first out of a promise he makes to Qui-Gon, not because he cares about him.  We’ll get to the “attachment to his mother” thing in a bit--but, for now, let’s just say, George Lucas’ words on this are not that attachment to her was a good thing. Fair enough that “not because he cares about him” is up to personal interpretation, but canon has also addressed the topic of Obi-Wan’s treatment of Anakin and Obi-Wan stepped up to the plate on this.  In addition to how we see Obi-Wan REPEATEDLY being there for Anakin and being concerned and caring about him, they specifically talk about Qui-Gon and overcome this hurdle.

No, Obi-Wan is not Anakin’s father figure, on that we definitely agree.  Anakin never really even treats Obi-Wan like a father--he says “you’re the closest thing I have to a father” in Attack of the Clones, as well as he says Obi-Wan practically raised him in The Clone Wars “Crystal Crisis” story reels, but Anakin has never actually acted like Obi-Wan is his father--”then why don’t you listen to me?” Obi-Wan points out in AOTC--as well as Obi-Wan glides past those remarks, which I’ve always taken that he doesn’t want to reject Anakin’s feelings, knowing that Anakin can be sensitive about them, but neither does he want to confirm them. This does not mean Obi-Wan was not supportive, caring, and loving.  He says, “I loved you!” to Anakin in Revenge of the Sith, he asks after him and if he’s sleeping well in Attack of the Clones, and even George Lucas himself said that the elevator scene was set up TO SHOW OBI-WAN AND ANAKIN CARE FOR EACH OTHER:

PUTTING THE REST UNDER A READ MORE FOR A BETTER LENGTH REBLOGGABLE VERSION, IF  YOU WANT.

This is further evidenced by how the Jedi do see themselves as family, they just don’t need to put it into strict nuclear family dynamics:     - “You were my brother, Anakin!  I loved you!”  [–Obi-Wan Kenobi, Revenge of the Sith]      - “We are brothers, Master Dibs.” [–Mace Windu, Jedi of the Republic - Mace Windu]      - “Did your parents bicker?” she asked. “The adoptive ones, I mean.”         A slow smile broke across Ashla’s face, curling first one side of her mouth and then the other. Whatever she was remembering, Kaeden could tell it was good.         "All the time,“ Ashla said, almost as if she were talking to herself. [–Kaeden Larte, Ahsoka Tano, Ahsoka]      -  Vos, brought to the Temple even younger than most, felt that he had hundreds of brothers and sisters, and it seemed that whenever he went into the dining hall he ran into at least half of them. [Dark Disciple]       - “It was not his birthplace, exactly, but the Jedi Temple was where Quinlan Vos had grown up. He’d raced through its corridors, hidden behind its massive pillars, found peace in its meditation hall, ended-and started-fights in rooms intended for striking blows and some that weren’t, and sneaked naps in its library. All Jedi came here, at some point in their lives; for Quinlan, it always felt like coming home when he ran lightly up the stairs and entered the massive building as he did now.” [Dark Disciple] Brothers, sisters, and other more non-traditional kinds of family are not lesser and Obi-Wan and Anakin absolutely were family, just as the Jedi are all family to each other, so, no, there was no “failing” Anakin, except in Anakin’s mind, perhaps.  (In that, I can agree.  But not on a narratively approved level, canon too thoroughly refutes that for me.) Rebels as well pretty thoroughly shows that non-traditional families are meaningful and just as important--we may joke that Hera is “space mom”, but she’s not actually Ezra or Sabine’s mother, Kanan is not actually their father, and even if they sometimes stray into aspects of those roles (as the Jedi do as well in the movies and TCW), that they don’t need that traditional nuclear family structure.  Mentor figures--and Kanan is Ezra’s mentor--are just as meaningful and needful as a “dad”.  And I’m kind of :/ at the implication that anyone without a dad/father figure or mom/mother figure is being “failed”. When they get Anakin, they find him on Tatooine, he says “Why do I feel like we’ve found another useless lifeform?” He’s comparing Anakin to Jar Jar and he’s saying “this is a waste of our time, why are we doing this, why do you see importance in these creatures like Jar Jar Binks and this ten-year-old boy? This is useless.” Whether or not Obi-Wan is being genuinely dismissive in this movie (I think you could make a case either way), the idea that Qui-Gon is better than Obi-Wan about this, as shown through Jar Jar isn’t exactly very supported given how Qui-Gon and Jar Jar first exchange words:

QUI-GON: “You almost got us killed. Are you brainless?”   JAR JAR:  “I spake.”   QUI-GON: “The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.” Qui-Gon is just as bad as everyone else to Jar Jar, he’s not somehow elevated above them. It’s also baffling because, Dave, I have watched your show.  The Jedi are specifically shown to be kind to people and creatures, not considering them “useless”.  Henry Gilroy (who was the co-writer for The Clone Wars and frequently appeared in featurettes on the same level as Dave Filoni) explicitly draws this to The Jedi Way, that “life is everything to the Jedi“, when he said this about the Ryloth episodes:

(Caps cribbed from Pan’s blog, because I cannot make another gif, save me, please.)      Henry Gilroy in an Aggressive Negotiations Interview:  "Obi-Wan truly is a Jedi in that he’s like, ‘Okay, I’m not going to murder these creatures [in the Ryloth arc of The Clone Wars].  They’re starving to death.  They’ve basically been unleashed against these people as a weapon, but it’s not their fault. They’re just doing what they do.  They’re just animals who wanna eat.’     "So the idea was–and I think there was an early talk about how, 'Oh, yeah, he’ll go running through them and slicing and dicing them and chop them all up or whatever, and save his guys.  And I’m like, 'Yeah, but that’s not really the Jedi way.  He’s not just gonna murder these creatures.’     "And I know the threat is [there], to save one life you have to take one, but the idea of him [is]: why can’t Obi-Wan just be more clever?  He basically draws them in and then traps them.     "It says something about who the Jedi are, they don’t just waste life arbitrarily.  And someone could have gone, 'Oh, yeah, but it would have been badass if he’d just ran in there with his lightsaber spinning and stabbed them all in the head!’  And 'Yeah, you’re right, I guess he could be that, but he’s trying to teach his clones a lesson right then, about the sanctity of life.’       "That is the underlying theme of that entire episode.  Which is:  A tactical droid is using the people as living shields.  Life means nothing to the Separatists.  The droids.  But life is everything to the Jedi.  And even though he doesn’t have to say that, it’s all through the episode thematically.“ It’s also Obi-Wan who teaches Anakin about kindness to mindless creatures in the Obi-Wan & Anakin comic:

"These beasts are nearly mindless, Anakin.  I can feel it.  They are merely following their nature, they should not die simply because they crossed our path. Use the Force to send them on their way.” Now, fair enough if you want to say Obi-Wan was taught by Qui-Gon, but also Qui-Gon is dead by that point and Obi-Wan growing into being more mature is his own accomplishment, not Qui-Gon’s, especially given that we see Qui-Gon himself being pretty dismissive to Jar Jar in TPM. This isn’t unique thing either, Padme is incredibly condescending to Jar Jar in “Bombad Jedi” and expresses clear annoyance with him to C-3PO when sighing over him.  Jar Jar is a character you kind of have to warm up to, pretty much the only one we’ve seen consistently being favorable to him is Yoda (and maybe Anakin, though, Anakin doesn’t really interact with him a ton) and Mace Windu warms up to him considerably in “The Disappeared” and even specifically is shown to be teaching him and helping him, which is a huge theme of the Jedi and how much they care.

So, ultimately, the point I’m winding my way towards is--the other Jedi do show kindness and consideration to Jar Jar Binks, including characters like Mace Windu, so if you’re judging the Jedi based on that, the conclusion of Qui-Gon somehow being more compassionate and loving is really pretty thoroughly disproved by The Phantom Menace and The Clone Wars themselves. So, he’s a brother to Anakin eventually but he’s not a father figure. That’s a failing for Anakin. He doesn’t have the family that he needs. He loses his mother in the next film. He fails on this promise that he made, “mother, I’m going to come back and save you”. So he’s left completely vulnerable and Star Wars is ultimately about family.  You could be charitable and say this is just from Anakin’s point of view that it’s a “failing”, but within the context of what Dave’s saying, it’s clearly meant as a more narratively approved take, not just Anakin’s point of view, and I really, really dislike the idea that Anakin--or anyone, really--needs a traditional nuclear family, ie a “mom” and/or a “dad”, or else it’s a “failing” for them. Setting aside that the idea that Qui-Gon would need to be Anakin’s dad to be kind to hi (which is ?????) is contradicted by The Clone Wars as well.  Yes, Qui-Gon is warm with Anakin in several scenes, which is what Dave is presumably drawing on to show that Qui-Gon believed the Jedi should be caring and loving, but you know who else is warm to younglings?  OTHER JEDI COUNCIL MEMBERS.

Those two scenes have the exact same kind of warmth to them.  Ie, THE JEDI ALL BELIEVED IN BEING LOVING AND KIND, NOT JUST QUI-GON.  The things evidenced to show Qui-Gon was loving and kind are evidenced just as much in other Council members, in Dave’s own show. As a bonus--have Mace Windu, known Jedi Council member, being super kind and loving towards a young Twi’lek girl he just met in a canon comic:

But I know that this is about the way the Council treated Anakin in The Phantom Menace testing scene, but here’s the thing--when I go back and I watch that scene and the Jedi aren’t ever mean to him, they’re neutral in an official testing situation, where they are trying to determine if he’s able to adapt to the Jedi ways.  They never once say he’s bad for holding onto his fear, only that he does--which Anakin digs his heels in and gets angry about, he can’t really even admit that he’s afraid and that’s a huge deal for the Jedi. I’ve made a longer post about it here (and here), but the basic gist is: - That scene has Yoda giving the famous “Fear leads to the dark side” speech which is almost word for word how George Lucas describes how the Force works, showing the Jedi are narratively correct - “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi” may be from the sequels, but it is thoroughly supported by the movies and TCW and Rebels and even supplementary canon material, including that the Jedi literally design their tests around both Masters and Padawans for it (Ilum, the Jedi Temple on Lothal, etc. - Anakin cannot admit to his fears in that TPM scene - We have examples of Jedi younglings do admit to their fears and the point isn’t not to have them, but to face them--the younglings in “The Gathering” are the most blatant example of this, but it’s also pretty much the entire theme of Jedi: Fallen Order, especially when Cal goes to Ilum to face his fears and get another kyber crystal. The point isn’t that Anakin--who has very good reasons to be afraid! nothing in the story or the Jedi have said he didn’t!--is wrong or bad, but that he’s not a great fit for the Jedi life because he is “unwilling to accept [Jedi philosophy] emotionally”.  And they’re right about this, because this is how George Lucas describes Anakin in commentary: “The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can’t hold onto things, which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn’t willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he’d have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn’t have this particular connection as strong as it is and he’d have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them.”  --George Lucas, Attack of the Clones commentary And so this brings us to A T T A C H M E N T, which, yeah, we’ve been having this discussion forever, but I’m going to state it again:  Within Star Wars, ATTACHMENT IS NARRATIVELY A BAD THING.  It is consistently tied to possessive, obsessive relationships, to greed and an unwillingness to let things go when it’s time (letting go is a huge theme in Star Wars) and equating love with attachment is fundamentally wrong according to George Lucas’ Star Wars worldbuilding: “The Jedi are trained to let go. They’re trained from birth,” he continues, “They’re not supposed to form attachments. They can love people-- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can’t form attachments. So what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death.” --George Lucas, The Making of Revenge of the Sith If attachment and love were the same thing, then he would be saying, “They should love their enemies, they should love the Sith.  But they can’t love.”  The way George makes the distinction shows that, no, attachment and love aren’t the same thing at all, attachment is not caring.  Further, there’s another instance of him showing there’s an important distinction between relationships and attachment and the association of attachmets with possession:  "Jedi Knights aren’t celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships.” --George Lucas, BBC News interview So, yes, when Anakin is attached to people, it is directly tied to obsession, possession, and greed, all things of the dark side: “He turns into Darth Vader because he gets attached to things. He can’t let go of his mother; he can’t let go of his girlfriend. He can’t let go of things. It makes you greedy. And when you’re greedy, you are on the path to the dark side, because you fear you’re going to lose things, that you’re not going to have the power you need.”  --George Lucas, Time Magazine  “But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the dark side. I mean he’s been prepping for this, but that’s the one where he’s sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate.“ --George Lucas, Attack of the Clones commentary ATTACHMENT IS BAD IN STAR WARS AS THEY DEFINE IT. Finally, I’m going to circle back to: Because Qui-Gon is different than the rest of the Jedi and you get that in the movie; and Qui-Gon is fighting because he knows he’s the father that Anakin needs. Because Qui-Gon hasn’t given up on the fact that the Jedi are supposed to actually care and love and that’s not a bad thing. Here’s the thing about this:  You know who else, by this logic, Qui-Gon should have been a father to?  OBI-WAN KENOBI. This isn’t said as “Anakin specifically needs a father” (which I think would be an interesting idea to bandy about and I’m not disagreeing, though, it’s complicated because of what Anakin refuses to accept emotionally), it’s said in a bigger context, that Qui-Gon is better than the other Jedi because he understands the need for fathers (and thus this ties into Return of the Jedi) and he’s ahead of the other Jedi, who apparently think loving and caring about people are bad things, but Qui-Gon does not treat Obi-Wan like his son.  Or, if he does, he’s not exactly a stellar dad about it. Within Master & Apprentice, there’s an incredibly consistent theme of how Qui-Gon thinks supportive things about Obi-Wan, but never says them aloud.  He thinks he should talk to Obi-Wan about the upcoming decision to be on the Council and then never does.  He could have explained why he kept Obi-Wan training the basics but he never does.  There are multiple instances showing that Qui-Gon is actually really, really bad at actually handling a young apprentice who needs him to talk to them about important things.  Qui-Gon continues this in From a Certain Point of View where he still never talked to Obi-Wan about everything that happened, even after he became a Force Ghost.     Damn, damn, damn. Qui-Gon closed his eyes for one moment. It blocked nothing; the wave of shock that went through Obi-Wan was so great it could be felt through the Force. Qui-Gon hadn’t thought Kirames Kaj would mention the Jedi Council invitation. It seemed possible the soon-retiring chancellor of the Republic might not even have taken much note of information about a new Council member. --Master & Apprentice     That comment finally pierced Qui-Gon’s damnable calm. There was an edge to his voice as he said, “I suspected you would be too upset to discuss this rationally. Apparently I was correct.”     “I thought you said my reaction was understandable,” Obi-Wan shot back. “So why does it disqualify me from hearing the truth?”    Qui-Gon put his hands on his broad belt, the way he did when he was beginning to withdraw into himself. “…we should discuss this at another time. Neither of us is his best self at the present.” --Master & Apprentice     Obi-Wan walked toward the door, obviously outdone. “At the beginning of my apprenticeship, I couldn’t understand you,” he said. “Unfortunately, that’s just as true here at the end.”     Only yesterday they had worked together as never before. How did Qui-Gon manage to get closer to Obi-Wan at the same time he was moving further away?     Just before Obi-Wan would leave the room, Qui-Gon said, “Once, you asked me about the basic lightsaber cadences. Why I’d kept you there, instead of training you in more advanced forms of combat.”     Obi-Wan turned reluctantly to face him again. “I suppose you thought I wasn’t ready for more. The same way I’m not ready to believe in all this mystical—”     “That’s not why.”     After a long pause, Obi-Wan calmed to the point where he would listen. “Then why, Qui-Gon?”     “Because many Padawans—and full Jedi Knights, for that matter—forget that the most basic technique is the most important technique. The purest. The most likely to protect you in battle, and the foundation of all knowledge that is to come,” Qui-Gon said. “Most apprentices want to rush ahead to styles of fighting that are flashier or more esoteric. Most Masters let them, because we must all find our preferred form eventually. But I wanted you to be grounded in your technique. I wanted you to understand the basic cadences so well that they would become instinct, so that you would be almost untouchable. Above all, I wanted to give you the training you needed to accomplish anything you set your mind to later on.”     Obi-Wan remained quiet for so long that Qui-Gon wondered if he were too angry to really hear any of what he’d said. But finally, his Padawan nodded. “Thank you, Qui-Gon. I appreciate that. But—”     “But what?”     “You could’ve said so,” Obi-Wan replied, and then he left. --Master & Apprentice     "I owe you that. After all, I’m the one who failed you.“     "Failed me?”     They have never spoken of this, not once in all Qui-Gon’s journeys into the mortal realm to commune with him. This is primarily because Qui-Gon thought his mistakes so wretched, so obvious, that Obi-Wan had wanted to spare him any discussion of it. Yet here, too, he has failed to do his Padawan justice. --From a Certain Point of View, “Master and Apprentice” (Further, in Master & Apprentice, Qui-Gon thinks that the Jedi give Rael Averross--who is HUGELY paralleled to Anakin--too many exceptions, were too soft on him because he came to the Jedi later than most and has trouble thinking of them as his family, and he thinks they should have been stricter with him.) It’s also readily apparent within The Phantom Menace itself:

You can take some charitable views of this scene, that Qui-Gon was pushed into a corner where he had few other options (and this is the view I generally take even!), but this is after the entire movie where he’s never once indicated that Obi-Wan was ready, has instead indicated that he still has much to learn (not just of the Living Force, but in general), as well as made it clear that he’s still teaching Obi-Wan, like on the Trade Federation ship. And I do think Obi-Wan got over this because he understood, because Obi-Wan actually is a very selfless person, he clearly cares (which is furthered by how we see him warm up to Anakin very quickly), but look at their faces. This was not a good moment, and they do somewhat make up, where Qui-Gon says that Obi-Wan has been a good apprentice, that he’s wiser than Qui-Gon and he’ll be a great Jedi--but if we’re counting that as Qui-Gon being this great Jedi, then you can’t say Obi-Wan failed Anakin, given that we show him doing the exact same thing, except better.  He tells Anakin, “You are strong and wise and will become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be.”, echoing Qui-Gon’s words, but also he never threw Anakin aside for someone else. This is kind of a major undercurrent throughout The Clone Wars, where Obi-Wan never takes another apprentice, where he continues to teach Anakin, to support him, even to the point of occasionally co-Mastering Ahsoka with him.  “This has been quite a journey for our Padawan.” Qui-Gon’s treatment of Obi-Wan in this scene isn’t the worst, he’s kind about it later (though, he never actually specifically apologizes for this), but we can see that this is a moment where Qui-Gon hurts Obi-Wan and knows it. And you know what George Lucas has to say about Qui-Gon?  This: “So here we’re having Qui-Gon wanting to skip the early training and jump right to taking him on as his Padawan learner, which is controversial, and ultimately, the source of much of the problems that develop later on.”  –George Lucas, The Phantom Menace commentary There’s nothing about Qui-Gon being right or better than the other Jedi, but instead that Qui-Gon’s actions here are a source of much of the problems that develop later on. So, ultimately, I liked some points Dave made in that speech, it’s a beautiful and eloquent one, but I thoroughly disagree with his interpretation of George’s intentions for Qui-Gon and I thoroughly disagree that that’s what the movies, The Clone Wars (DAVE’S OWN SHOW), and the supplementary canon show about Qui-Gon and the other Jedi.  I still stand by my appreciation of Dave’s contributions to SW as a whole, I think he does a really good job at making Star Wars, but he doesn’t always get everything right and this is one thing where I think the canon and George’s commentary show otherwise, as much as I love his desire to defend the prequels’ importance in the story.  Because, my friend, I have felt that every single day of my SW life.

#anakin skywalker #qui gon jinn #jedi order #george lucas #dave filoni #meta #long post #really long post

[ct-offical-sexyman]

Viveza and all the prequels

First of all; how dare you make me write out the plot of my own story. Second of all: thank you, this will probably help in the future.

Remember that this can all change in the future.

Spoilers for Viveza’s story below.

The Phantom Menace

Melinoe Lanami is sent to spy on the young queen of Naboo under the fake name Nize Raza. Her orders are to keep an eye on the girl until told otherwise. She takes up the disguise of Captain Panaka’s second in command.

She escapes the blockade with everyone else. A small communicator gives her a new order to signal the group's location to Maul.

When they arrive on Tatooine, Melinoe tries to go with Padme, Jar Jar and Qui Gon into town, but Qui Gon says they have enough people and forces Melinoe to stay behind. She doesn’t push it, knowing that insisting on following them would be too risky and blow her cover.

For the scenes on Tatooine Melinoe’s scenes are made up of her talking/sparring with Obi Wan or interacting with other members of the crew. I’m currently having reader block with this part of the story, because I’m trying to work out what Melinoe and Obi Wan talk about in regards to the life of a Jedi and the politics surrounding it. Because I feel like it could be really easy for me to fuck it up, and made really obvoius that Melinoe is a spy/sith.

Anyway; Jinn brings back Anakin and friends back to the ship where they’re attacked by Maul. Once they escape Melinoe and Anakin have a scene together where Anakin is still getting used to the cold on the ship. Melinoe finds him a blanket and sympathises with him saying that she grew up on a cold planet and it took a little while for her to get used to warmer places. This scene was originally between Anakin and Padme, but this is a good way to show Melinoe’s personality under the mask she puts up for herself.

At some point before they get to Coruscant Melinoe lets her guard down for a second and accidently reveals her real name to Obi Wan through the force.

During the Coruscant scenes Melinoe is put on guard duty over the handmaidens. So she doesn’t witness any of the stuff at the Jedi Temple.

When everyone goes back to Naboo, Melinoe is given orders to kill the Jedi just as Maul shows up to fight them.

Melinoe and Obi Wan get septured from Qui Gon and Maul when Maul pushes Obi Wan into Melinoe causing them both to fall off the platform. Obi Wan saves Melinoe by grabbing her hand, but they don’t talk about it because they’re both more focused on catching up with Qui Gon and Maul.

When Obi Wan starts fighting Maul, Melinoe gets caught behind the red force field. She has the opportunity to help Maul several times, but she realises ‘why should help him? I fucking hate him and hurt Eglantine on muiltable occasions’. Melinoe ends up leaving Maul for dead in order to make her escape from the planet.

She’s later seen back on Byss, giving Darth Heiss a report of what happened while leaving out and lying about several things. She’s informed that she’ll be punished for failing her mission and is dismissed.

Later on; she tells Eglantine about what happened, while being much more honest. Eglantine expresses relief about Maul’s death and Melinoe’s safe return.

Interlude

Abridged version of events in between TPM & AOTC;

Viveza stops using her birth name after Eglantine is killed by Heiss.

She disavows Darth Heiss and defects from Byss three years after Maul’s death, and two years after Eglantine’s.

Gets a ship and a T7 unit after taking it from a group of mandalorians.

Viveza travels to Eglantine’s homeworld of Marazi where she meets her first apprentice, Jaks Jr, and her eventual second in command, Jaks Snr.

While on Glee Anselm, Viveza meets her second apprentice, Thea, after Thea tries to chew her arm off. While breaking up a slave ring, Viveza meets Orianna and Nizzal, who become her third and fourth apprentices.

Meets Obi Wan again several times, but it’s always in a situation where she’s able to escape.

Attack of the Clones

Viveza is dragged into the plot when Obi Wan seeks her out to find information on the Kamino Saber Dart (knowing that after years of breaking up slave cartels she’ll have information about underground criminals like bounty hunters).

Since she owes Obi Wan a favour for saving one of her companions at some point, she agrees to help him. She tells him that the dart is from Kaimino. She later helps Obi Wan find his way to Kaimino when he hits a dead end.

While Obi Wan is having his conversation with Lama Su, Viveza is given a tour of the cloning facilities. This is where Viveza would meet Margo for the first time. They have a conversation where Viveza asks Margo what her life is like living on Kaimio. Margo avoids the question and eventually leaves.

They later meet Jango and work out that he’s the one who was hired to kill Padme. While Obi Wan is getting the council an update, Viveza is the one to notice that the Fetts are trying to escape.

After the fight between Obi Wan and Fett, Viveza is the one to throw the homing beacon on the Slave 1.

They follow the Fetts to Geonosis. Where they find out about Gunray making the order to kill Padme. They go back to Viveza’s ship where Obi Wan sends his findings to the council via Anakin's and Padme’s ship.

They are then captured by Jango and the droidekas. Viveza has her lightsabers taken and eventually they end up in the hands of Margo.

Viveza is put in a different cell to Obi Wan, and Dooku also tries to persuade her to join (but with a completely different speech). She refuses to hear him out, due to remembering the 14 years of suffering she endured at the hands of Heiss basically saying ‘I spent 14 years trying to escape and you expect me to go right back because of some empty words’.

I thought about having Dooku try to appeal to Viveza by playing the ‘i knew your father’ card, but then I realised there was no way Dooku could know who Viveza is, so :P.

Viveza is sentenced to death in the Geonosis Arena. Where she’ll face off against a Gundark. She manages to escape by tricking the gundark into running into the piller she’s chained to, causing the whole thing to crumble.

When the battle between the Jedi and the droids starts, Viveza holds her own without any lightsabers and still has her hands tied together.

When the Clones get there, Viveza takes the opportunity to leave and go look for her ship. When she finds it, she also finds Margo, who’s having a breakdown because her father just died and her brother tried to murder her.

Viveza’s plot on AOTC ends with Margo returning Viveza’s lightsabers to her and becoming Viveza’s fifth apprentice.

Interlude 2

I love you, Lou, BUT I CAN’T SUMMERRISE ALL THE CLONE WARS IN ONE POST! All you need to know is that Viveza wants revenge on Grievous for a lot of the stuff he’s done to her and her allies during the Clone Wars.

Revenge of the Sith

Viveza learns that Grievous is on Utapau and travels there hoping to kill Grievous herself. She runs into Obi Wan and they agree that it would be in their best interest to take Grievous on together. After defeating Grievous and getting Obi Wan’s lightsaber from Cody, Obi Wan starts escorting Viveza’s back to her ship via Boga (best girl, rip, I think?).

They get blasted off the side of a cliff but manage to escape. They meet up with Bail and Yoda and head to Coruscant to change the Jedi Beacon to make sure any other survivors know to stay away. Aftering finding out that Anakin turned to the darkside, Viveza is enraged that he killed all the younglings.

They go to question Padme about where Anakin is, but she refuses to tell them anything. When Padme leaves to find Anakin, Viveza and Obi Wan stowaway on her ship.

On Mustafar when Anakin thinks Padme betrayed him by bringing Obi Wan and Viveza he tries attacking her, but Viveza stops him by shooting him with force lightning. Padme is able to get away from Anakin with minor injuries.

Viveza and Obi Wan engage in a fight against Anakin. After the facility’s shields get deactivated, Viveza gets separated from Obi Wan and Anakin.

I can either have Viveza and Obi Wan meet back at the ship or have her find them just as Obi Wan gets ‘the high ground’, but the thing about the second option is that Viveza wouldn’t want to take any changes and would probably put Anakin out of misery when he’s burning alive.

Either way they end up back at the ship with Padme. While on the ship Obi Wan and Viveza have a moment where they just lean on each other in exhaustion.

Padme goes into labour as they're travelling to Polis Massa. She gives birth to the twins and is predicted to make a full recovery in time. (because fuck you canon!). She’s heartbroken by what Anakin has done, but vows to fight for her children.

The ending is another point where I’m not quite sure where to take it. I could just go with the original ending where Leia is adopted by Bail, and Luke is sent to Tatooine right away, but I feel like Padme wouldn’t want to be separated from her children. At the moment I’m thinking she’ll go into hiding for around two years but after one too many close calls she begrudgingly accepts to send each of them into hiding. With Leia being sent to live with Bail and having her name changed to Leia Organa and Luke being sent to live with Owen. Maybe I’ll find some other direction.

Viveza sets out to see how many of her allies and connections are still loyal to her or if they decide to shift their loyalty to the newly formed Empire. Her first order of business to find out what happened to Margo, because she hasn’t contacted Viveza since Maul’s capture.

#askcj #darth viveza #long post

[umbrellacam]

Thank you for the tag, @falleen, this was fun!

Rule: answer the questions and tag 9 people you want to get to know better/catch up with!

Three ships: I’m going to cheat and do three for my current fandom, and then three for other fandoms, just for variety.

Star Wars: obikin (my original prequels ship all the way back to when I sat in that theater in 2005, in absolute tears over the Mustafar divorce scene. YOU WERE MY BROTHER ANAKIN, I LOVED YOU – I HATE YOU – their relationship and their love for each other shaped the course of the galaxy, I will never be over it), codywan (this has snuck up on me more and more since I backslid into Star Wars fandom and started watching TCW. They’re so dutiful and devoted and affectionate! The wartime angst and the potential abuse of chain of command angst and the Order 66 angst! The mutual pining, self-denial, and self-sacrifice! I adore them) and jangobi (listen: Temuera Morrison sexy. Obi-Wan and Jango eye-fucking and then horizontally tangoing on Kamino in AotC. The thousand-and-one interesting AU jump-off points. The inherent eroticism of enemies fighting and then learning to trust each other. CHEMISTRY!) ...Yes, I recognize I have a multishipping-Obi-Wan problem, I am (definitely not) working on it.

Other Fandoms: I have - so many. I’ll go with some of the more recent ones: mchanzo (Overwatch; anachronistic cowboy/samurai archer in a futuristic setting; two weary men trying to make up for past sins), jonerys (aSoIaF; tHe tHeMaTiC PaRRaLleLs, star-crossed leaders with too many burdens and long, painful roads behind them uniting to save the world, DRAGONS; no I will never forgive Game of Thrones for fucking this up along with literally everything else), and hualian (TGCF; they invented love, what can I say). Overall, I’d say I have a weakness for devotion in ships.

Last song: Coffee In Bed by Pentatonix, my favorite acapella wizard superstars.

Last movie: Pixar’s Soul, which I thought was funny, cute and clever but had pacing and thematic issues along with reaching ambitious new heights of abstraction (impressive for a studio that already has a movie about anthropomorphic emotions in its repetoire), so it didn’t end up landing as strongly for me as some other Pixar movies. Still worth watching!

Currently watching: I don’t watch tons of TV, but I’m making my way through TCW (yes, still >_> I’m currently stuck halfway through Season 5, just before the Mandalore arc. I keep chickening out of opening the next episode because of the buckets of angst that I know are upcoming – all the way through to the end of the series, GAH.) I also just started Word of Honor, a recent BL-novel-based wuxia cdrama that is a lot of fun so far.

Currently reading: I tend to tear through fiction that I find really engaging to the point of not sleeping, so stuff doesn’t stay ‘current’ for long. On a slower burn, I’m listening to the audiobook for Darth Plagueis, picking my way through the first Jedi Apprentice book, and using Rianovsky’s A History of Russia as pre-bed reading. I’m also twelve (12) pages into Anna Karenina, because my dad apparently thinks I’m in need of further cultural and intellectual enrichment and got it for my birthday, lmao.

Currently craving: Pho. It is safe to say that 50% of my waking life is spent craving pho, sushi, or potatoes in any shape or form. On a less culinary note, I’m craving physical contact, particularly familial hugs and cuddling. Lockdown is rough even for an introvert, yo.

Absolutely no pressure tags: I get anxiety about ‘bothering’ people with this sort of thing even though I always have fun when tagged, so. Totally don’t mind me if this is not your jam!! @mageofcole, @bittodeath, @allisontheknight, @intermundia, @glimmerglanger, and anyone else who’d like to play! I love reading these.

#memes #about me #personal

[idiosyncraticrednebula]

Bruh, agreed. Getting tired of Disney's Lucasfilm releasing all the new stories set during the Galactic Empire era. Like ENOUGH, we already have too media about it. I want to see OTHER eras, like thousands of years before TPM.

I mean, I know they are currently releasing the High Republic series set about 300-600 years before the events of TPM and I’ve heard about them remaking the Knights of the Old Republic series, but if I’m honest with you, I’m neither interested in reading anything from the High Republic series because to me it looks lackluster in comparison to the Old Republic content from Legends and the Knights of the Old Republic video game remake got me even less pumped because I have a strong feeling they’ll fuck that up too with whatever nonsense they wish to interject like they’ve been doing with most of Star Wars. I feel like they have not explored ancient Sith culture at all because all they have been focusing on is the Jedi and like don’t get me wrong, I love both, but since I’m a villain simp first and foremost, I wish to see some light shed upon the Sith as well as other Dark side cultures similar to the Sith (the Dark Jedi being an example of this since the concept was recently re-introduced to canon a few months ago, I believe). Hell, I wish they released more content set during the 10 year time span between TPM and AOTC because there’s so much you can explore in that time period, specially regarding Obi-Wan and Anakin’s Master and Padawan dynamic so they could dive deep into some of the issues and miscommunications they very well might have had at first. That’s another sign that Disney/Lucasfilm doesn’t understand nor know what the fans actually want because they’ve been milking the same era for 6 years now when they have plenty of material/content to expand upon. Some might say, “The old expanded universe did that too” yes, they did that because the prequels weren’t released until 8 years after the Heir to the Empire novel that revitalized the interest in Star Wars and George Lucas made it very clear that he didn’t want the pre-OT era to be explored until the prequels came out, so the content creators had no choice but to focus only on that era until something new and fresh came out. People really don’t give credit to the prequels for how much lore and worldbuilding they added to the Star Wars universe and how it made so much richer and grand, in my opinion anyways.

#ask #anon #old republic #pt #ot #imperial era #star wars #text

[runamoon]

Obi-Wan in the prequels novelizations

-x-

Few weeks ago, I finished the three novelizations of the prequels trilogy and I was really happy with everything what I read, but specially was really nice read the point of view of Obi-Wan in certain situations with more deeply in his thoughts. And thanks the books I can say now I love more the character of Obi-Wan.

First, in The Phantom Menace, I really like the interactions of Obi-Wan with Qui-Gon and how they are like a father-Son relationship, especially when they dispute in Coruscant after the discussion with the council about Anakin and later they [Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan] talk and resolve their problems. Even if Qui-Gon sometimes don’t talk all with his padawan, they still trying to resolve their differences talking (I see you Anakin).

Other moment of these two is when Obi-Wan cannot use his lightsaber, when he is run from the droids and reunite with Qui-Gon and Jar Jar, and he talks about that problem with Qui-Gon and he was like “Oh! It’s because you forget that”, Obi-Wan was so embarrased because was a very basic thing. A really cute interaction.

Also the heartbreaking moment:

He really needs a big hug!

Now in Attack of the Clones his POV was really funny, enjoyable and, especially, interesting. I really want talk a lot about AOTC but the moment I was like “Yeah! That’s my man!” is when he is in the tour of the process of cloning in Kamino.

specifically in this part:

If you still have some doubts about how the Jedi feels with the clone units, you really need read the whole mission in Kamino. But that is not all! I mean look the first think of Obi-Wan when he see the adults:

HE THINKS IN ANAKIN. He don’t really need use Anakin to compare the age with the clones, but he does. It’s like he can’t leave the thought about how the clones are like a human, they’re like Anakin.

And finally this:

10/10 and I really need give a big credit to Obi-Wan, because even with all situation he still act like he is there to see the progress of the Army.

And finally in Revenge of the Sith was so heartbreaking every moment with and about Anakin. The novel of ROTS really talks you how much Obi-Wan loves Anakin. And of course Anakin's really know how much Obi-Wan worried of him, but I think he actually don’t know how much Obi-Wan loves him and is so painful.

JUST LOOK HOW OBI-WAN REACTS WHEN HE SEE HOW ANAKIN ACCEPTS BE A SITH:

Yoda knows how much Obi-Wan loves Anakin and that’s why he trying to not let him see the videos, because Yoda knows how much pain will cause in Obi-Wan. And probably that’s the same reason why Yoda send the mission to confront Anakin, to accept what happen and how he really lost the padawan he really love. To let him go.

(Petition to punch Anakin for not trust and see how always Obi-Wan was there to him).

And what Obi-Wan does at the end? He stand up and accept care the son of Anakin. He left all his pain, sadness and stand up like he always do.

There so much thing about Obi-Wan what I want talk, especially of the prequels novels, but I’m gonna stop because now I’m sad and this post is really long and probably you are tired to read my poor English.

#star wars #star wars prequels #obi wan kenobi #prequel era #long post #i love this man so much #read ATOC is really good #ROTS break me and now i have depression agshahaha #if you want punch anakin contact me uwu #also sorry for my english... i still need much to learn

[legobiwan]

So i was just daydreaming of SW and fics & i was imagining two characters on opposites sides of light and dark both trying to turn each other bc they think they are right(don’t they all?). But i feel like sidious and maul and plenty of sith knew that they weren’t necessarily the ‘good’ guys, no matter their reason for why they ended up on the dark side. I think sidious knew he wasn’t a good person & was well aware of the ‘bad’ nature of the darkside and how it can corrupt a person entirely 1/

I think dooku was as well even though he thought he was doing the right thing & making change. Even Anakin knew in his own twisted mindset that despite why he turned, he wasn’t on the side of the good guys no matter their reason for why they ended up on the dark side.I think sidious knew he wasn’t a good person&was well aware of the ‘bad’ nature of the darkside and how it can corrupt a person entirely. I think dooku was as well even though he thought he was doing the right thing&making change.2/

But how would you convince someone that turned bc they thought they could keep it controlled. Revan himself turned thinking he could prevent the darkside from corrupting him entirely&we see how that turned out. What about people who just genuinely think that they are more free (they aren’t) on the darkside and just want to BE on the darkside and think that it’s not inherently bad. Bc some sith fics make it sound not that bad but we know that it actually really is very bad by nature ¾

I guess my question is how does someone who thinks they can have everything they want and not loose themselves, who is ruled by the dark side to the point of sith eyes, become convinced that going that far isn’t actually the right path to be on? 4/4 Sorry this is so long

Wow, anon, this is…a complicated question. (And off-topic, but daydreaming about SW fics totally got me through some horrible jobs a few years ago. Star Wars daydreaming ftw.)

For me, it comes down to what your definition of “light” (read, good) is. And I think either side, light or dark, taken too far to one extreme ends up wrapping back to the other, a kind of ouroboros. Too much light, as we saw with the Jedi, can lead to dark consequences. Too much dark, in a weird way, will lead to revolt, to a balancing. 

It’s thermodynamics, taken to a philosophical extent, where your variables seek equilibrium but there is only so much energy to share between them, as it cannot be created nor destroyed. 

But let’s extricate ourselves from such tangled webs, shall we, and take this analysis character by character. 

Sidious: Sidious is an unrepentant, manipulative bastard. I mean, the absolute worst, the whole shebang. I doubt there would be anyone who would have had the ability to pull him into the “Light,” just the ability to thwart his plans. Evil genius, psychopath, bereft of empathy, etc. Let’s just say Rey’s existence, at least from the first generation, was likely not an act of love. 

Dooku: Oh Dooku. My favorite bad guy is a lot more complicated. His motivations were idealistic and to some degree, justified. The Republic and the Jedi were failing certain underrepresented systems, the Republic bloated on corruption and the Jedi more and more backing themselves into a protective corner until they had no room left to move. His execution of the whole thing…well, that’s where his hubris (and nihilism) led him astray. And I still contend we see this darkening of Dooku between AotC and RotS, especially in TCW. The dark side won in Dooku, pulled him under its tide so perhaps by the time of RotS he just wasn’t able to see - or admit - Sidious’s plans for him. 

Now, would Dooku have been redeemed? Yes, but only under circumstances and I would say he would less be redeemed than returned to grey status. 

But what would possibly convince our resident iconoclast to renounce some of his ways? 

Or more, who?

Qui-gon or Obi-wan. Or both. Lineage is so important to Dooku, a man who felt the loss of his family, who felt he was alone in the universe, who, unlike Anakin, went out of his way to avoid close connections, to relieve everything of his past except his title and all the expectations that came with it. I mean, imagine that. You are raised a Jedi, taught to believe attachment is, if not bad, at least problematic. And then you leave that religious order to return to your homeworld where you inherit a title and presumably a million problems and identities and histories that come with said title. And Dooku knows none of these people but to rule them, but he does know the ones he has raised and the ones who they raised. Which leads me to believe that an alive Qui-gon (who, let’s face it, wouldn’t have been 100% light side) and/or a more convinced Obi-wan (who should have listened to Dooku on Geonosis but that is a whole other discussion because that was a Hail Mary by Dooku and the more I think about it, the more I believe it was a ballsy-as-ass move on his part) might have convinced him to realign himself.

Anakin: Ohhhh, Anakin. Anakin, who fell because he felt he had to, in order to save everyone he loved. Anakin, who was burdened with false expectation after a traumatic childhood. Anakin, who made so many bad choices and it’s both his fault and not his fault, a tragic combination of circumstance and proclivity. The thing is, we know Anakin is torn between the light and the dark, even after he turns. Anakin as Vader is kind of like the person who says, “Oh I ate 2 cookies, might as well eat the whole bag because nothing matters.” (Side note, I am a total supporter of eating the whole bag of cookies if that is the heart’s truest desire. Speaking as someone who has downed many bags of cookies in their lifetime.) Anyway, it’s the mindset that’s the problem. And Anakin does redeem himself in the end, when he finds something/someone to fight for and fight against and isn’t that so him, always fighting against something?

Look, dark side characterizations are fun. But there’s always something else behind it, and it is a big deal to abandon your principles, your ideals, your health, your everything to this festering, opaque disease that lives in your deepest gut and at times takes the controls, much to your horror (except if you are Sidious, in which case, the horrible darkness is always at the controls and that is by design). I, personally, like to explore the darker sides of these characters but also the why - what made them fall, why are they hurting, and what is the fallout of their actions?

Yes, it’s easy to hate, to fear - I mean, we see this in the real world on an everyday basis. What’s less easy is to be alone, and I mean truly alone. And I think minus extreme examples like Sidious (who, let’s admit, created clones to cheat death and kept a vast amount of servants so even he was not ever truly alone). If I might get a little existential for a moment, what I like about Jedi philosophy (and in all seriousness, I had a major breakdown about this a few years back and Jedi philosophy, weirdly enough, was a large part in saving my sanity) is that we are never alone, that we are all part of the Force, of life, of the breath and heartbeat of the universe no matter what corporeal form we take or not. The Sith see themselves as alone, but as we can observe, so many of them are motivated by connection, could possibly be spurred to change by connection in the correct circumstances. 

And by this, I don’t mean the Jedi were 100% correct. I feel like the version of the Jedi we got by TCW had been pushed to some extremes due to the Ruusan Reformation (gdi, that had better get recanonized, asap, because it is a pivotal moment and a HUGE explanation of why the Jedi ended up as they were by the time the Prequels rolled around and it makes So Much Sense), the emergence of Dooku, the war, etc.) There is something to be said about the Grey Jedi, not that they necessarily embraced light and dark - but perhaps so - but that they did not fall to one extreme or the other. And this is where I feel Qui-gon succeeded over many other of his peers, despite his myriad of other personality flaws. Possibly this was why he was able to access the Whills and pass on what he had learned, to the point of where we see Yoda in TLJ, who is a lot more philosophical about everything than he had been in life. 

So to answer your question - there is no making someone turn back to the light, as much as there is any way of forcing a sentient being to do anything. Once can only pave the way and forge relationships, and the rest is up to that person. I think a lot of our Sith friends knew they were going down a dark path but also saw no alternative and felt a need to vindicate themselves, to strike out in anger against their circumstances. I get it, I think we all have that urge sometimes. And I suppose the answer might come in having something to fight for as opposed to fight against, as ridiculous as that sounds. 

But then again, I am but a simple lego floating around the internet. :)

#Anonymous #hello there #ask legobiwan #this got a little philosophical #fyi #sheev palpatine #count dooku #anakin skywalker #jedi philosophjy #no joke though saves my ass during a full-on existential breakdown 0/10 do not recommend #on a lighter note #it's just fun to have obi wan be a bastard i enjoy the hell out of it