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kraviolis · 1 year

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IT MAKES ME SO UPSET KNOWING THAT DUNDEE AND CLEO WOULD BE SUCH GOOD FRIENDS IF THEY JUST. LISTENED TO EACH OTHER. i swear to GOD. its not even about the shared norman bones trauma either, they’re so similar to each other. maybe that’s why they’re so abrasive to each other, actually.

they both struggle a lot with their self-worth but it manifests in different ways. for cleo, its drug abuse and sabotaging herself. for dee, it’s narcissism and destruction. both of them are terrified of being abandoned or being hurt by people they trusted but also verbally lash out when they feel insecure in their relationships. they claim that they don’t care what others think but their behaviors often show the opposite. they’re both terrified of dying but pretend they don’t care or that they’re invincible, even though if the moment came where they couldn’t fight anymore they’d both just let it happen. but they also care a lot about their friends. they would do nearly anything to help the ones they love, including literal murder. they trust very few people but the ones that they do will have that trust for the rest of their lives if they’re careful.

but right now, at this point in both of their lives, dundee is actively working on his growth and making himself into a better person. he’s trying to heal from his trauma and make up for what he’s done and move forward. he’s maturing and learning and opening both his heart and mind. sure, he’s got problems, but not with himself or knowing his place in life.

cleo is... she’s spiraling down. she’s in a turbulent place right now. she’s overwhelmed and confused and so scared. she’s trying to navigate this labyrinth of relationships and trying to figure out who she is, what she wants, and what others are expecting of her. her support system is made of people she doesn’t remember and barely trusts. she can’t even live her life without constantly looking over her shoulder for either a sniper on a rooftop or a white peyote driving by.

and both of these are norman’s fault. entirely. see, norman didn’t take dundee’s memories of his family because dundee is great at causing chaos with their help. he didn’t need to do anything but take himself out of the picture because his original plan with dundee backfired. dundee got killed and couldn’t be his puppet anymore. this time, with dundee back to the person he was before he took the deal with norman the first time, the club trusts him again and he’s back to causing the same chaos and destruction that he’s so good at. his first month back, he got his own gang into a war with three different gangs and drove one of those gangs into making a deal with norman.

but norman did the opposite with cleo. he took her memories of her family, of the ones closest to her and the ones she trusted the most, because it would cause the most turmoil for all of them. if she had forgotten norman, she would’ve had a happy reunion and gone back to living a stable life with her family. but forgetting her family has taken away her entire support system. norman wanted cleo to not have the stability of those people because an unstable cleo is self destructive and angry and impulsive. she literally stabbed a man the first week she was back because she’s so unstable right now. she’s threatening billionaire terrorists and doing heroin and going on drug runs and helping kidnap ems. and she’s doing a lot of this because of her fear of norman and what he did to her.

if dundee approaches cleo when she’s calmer and in a better headspace (unlike the other day when she was in the middle of a serious argument with bundy) and they just. talk. and they find that middle ground between them and find their shared experiences or feelings and just agree on something important to both of them, then that could genuinely spark a friendship between them. like if cleo was like “you made collin shoot me for no reason” and dundee actually apologizes for that- because he doesn’t remember he did that and is genuinely trying to be a better person this time around- i think it would catch cleo off guard enough for her to reconsider her dislike of him and maybe be a little more open to him.

#i just want it so bad. i want cleo and dundee to be able to relate to each other and have this very specific friendship.#where they pretend they hate each other but have a connection they cant explain #krav talks #np #nopixel #cleo shaw #irwin dundee #norman bones #bbmc

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papermoonloveslucy · 6 months

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THE FACE IS FAMILIAR… BUT I CAN’T PLACE THE NAME!

Same Actor / Different Character ~ Part 3: “Here's Lucy"

It used to be quite common for actors to be cast in multiple roles on the same series. Not in principal parts, certainly, but in supporting and minor characters. Lucycoms were no exception. Although the world created by these shows was representative of reality, the characters who populated them often gave viewers Deja vu. By the time "Here's Lucy" premiered in 1968, Lucille Ball had developed a repertory company of actors that she used time and time again.

For the purposes of this discussion, we won't include background performers (aka extras) as they were nearly always drawn from the same pool of actors. Also, those who played multiple characters need to have at least one of them identified by name.

MARY WICKES

Lucille Ball's good friend tops the list of actors who played multiple roles, with seven characters in nine appearances. When the series premiered, she played a secretary friend of Lucy Carter's named Isabel in two episodes. Perhaps there was no room for Isabel, so she disappeared, but Wickes did not! Due to the fact that she played a nurse in her breakout role in The Man Who Came to Dinner (both stage and screen), she also played several nurses. She even showed up as Lucy's sister-in-law, a nun, another type that she was often cast as in films. In addition, she was a maid to an eccentric dowager, a Montana matriarch, and a nosy neighbor.

JACK COLLINS

Collins' six appearances span from season one in 1968 to the series finale in 1974. He played secret agent Johnson, expectant father Mr. Phillips, Vincent Price's producer Curt, Harry's eye optometrist Dr. Proctor, Harry's accountant Arthur Collins, and Harvey Stevens, proprietor of Harvey's Welcome Inn. Perhaps Collins is best compared to versatile actor Charles Lane on "I Love Lucy"?

CAROLE COOK

Lucy's protege is back with more interesting characters - five of them, to be exact. She started the series as a wacky woman in Carol Burnett's audience, played crusading neighbor Sheila Casten, bridge club member Lillian Rylander, gangster Ma Parker, and Cynthia Duncan, a Lucille Ball look-alike. Ma Parker was by far Cook's largest and most adventurous role on the series.

IRWIN CHARONE

Charone made five appearances on “The Lucy Show” and an equal number of “Here’s Lucy” episodes. Mr. Garfield of the Nippy Whippy Whipped Cream Company , dog owner Mr. Farnsworth, neighbor Chester P. Franklin, a permit office clerk, and college dean Phillips.

ROY ROBERTS

Roberts made an impact as Mr. Cheever on "The Lucy Show." His first appearance on "Here's Lucy" was as the Superintendent of the Air Force Academy in a two-part season opener filmed on location. He returned as a NASA's Dr. Jensen in "Lucy and the Astronauts" (1971), Warden Maginetti when "Lucy Goes To Prison" (1973), and Dr. Honeycutt when "Lucy is N.G. as an R.N." (1974).

RHODES REASON

Reason was a handsome leading man type who easily played a variety of roles from 1968 to 1973: Bradley Henshaw, Jim Simpson, Sam Toliver, Lieutenant Egan, and Keith Davidson.

ROBERT CARSON

Carson was a busy Canadian-born actor. While he never played supporting roles, he wasn't just an extra either. On "Here's Lucy" he played Martin Philips, Buzzy Brock, Sergeant Lou Holmes, and Officer Hurlow.

ROBERT ALDA

Alda (father of Alan) was best known for originating the role of Sky Masterson on Broadway in Guys and Dolls (1950). He did four episodes of "Here's Lucy," the first as himself, hosting the Secretary Beautiful Contest. The role was originally written for Don Ameche, then re-cast with Ross Martin, before Alda was finally given the part. He got to use his musical theatre skills singing the pageant’s theme. He put his musical skills to use again as Dean Butler in "Lucy, the Co-Ed" (1970). He also sang as Captain MacClay in a two-parter set on a cruise ship to Hawaii.

WALLY COX

Cox had come to the nation's attention as Mr. Peepers. On "Here's Lucy" he played ex-con safecracker Rock Barnett, wimpy Wally Manley, diamond cutter Gustav Vandermeer, and toy tycoon Tommy Tucker.

DORIS SINGLETON

Singleton created the role of Caroline Appleby on “I Love Lucy.” She was slated to appear as Doris, a secretary colleague of Lucy's, on "Here's Lucy," but the role was eliminated after the first episode. She returned, however, for three more appearances, all as secretaries to the stars: Petula Clark's secretary Miss Perkins, Eddie Albert's secretary Patty, and Lucille Ball's secretary Doris, a role modeled after Ball's own secretary Wanda.

WILLIAM LANTEAU

William Lanteau was a theatre actor who was most famous for playing Charlie the Mailman in On Golden Pond. His theatrical background surely helped him disguise himself in his four roles on "Here's Lucy". Unlike past guest actors, he looks significantly different in each one: Mr. Sherwood, a supermarket manager; Mr. Minkle, building superintendent; Spike, Ginger Rogers' secretary; and Edgar St. Vincent Kinkaid, antiques store manager.

DICK PATTERSON

Patterson was seen by Lucille Ball performing on stage and cast on "The Lucy Show." He continued his relationship with the redhead on "Here's Lucy" where he played computer matchmaker Mr. Morton (Ball's real surname), TV host Dick Dunkirk, Joe Namath's football coach Hennessy, and director of Lucy's pickle commercial Steve Thompson.

RETA SHAW

Shaw was a star of stage and screen (big and small) and Lucille Ball enjoyed working with her. This time, in the series' third episode, she played Mabel Ryker, using the same first name she had in The Pajama Game on stage and screen. She played Rita Forrester in "Lucy and The Group Encounter" (1972), and Mrs. Witherspoon, Lucy's prospective new boarder in "Lucy's Tenant" (1973).

LOLA FISHER

Fisher understudied and replaced Julie Andrews on Broadway in the musical My Fair Lady. She was seen as in "Lucy's Working Daughter" (1968), as Mrs. Pomeroy in "Lucy in the Jungle" (1971), and Bunny in "Lucy and the Franchise Fiasco" (1973).

CLIFF NORTON

Norton played Sam the Plumber who's overalls turn up on Richard Burton. He was an undercover detective looking for scalpers in an episode starring O.J. Simpson. Lastly, he got title billing in "Mary Jane's Boyfriend", playing accident prone Walter Butley.

BEN WRIGLEY

Wrigley was a British actor who appeared in My Fair Lady (1964) and Bednobs and Broomsticks (1971). so he was a natural to play butlers to Liberace and Jack Benny. He also played Homer Pomeroy in "Lucy in the Jungle" (1971).

BRUCE GORDON

Gordon was best known for playing gangster Frank Nitti in the Desilu television series "The Untouchables" (1959-63), a role he satirized on "The Lucy Show". He trades on that reputation again as Doc Porter in "Lucy and the Ex-Con" and Rocky in "Dirty Gertie", another organized crime scenario. For a change of pace, he played Grandfather Konstantine Kasos in "Lucy's Wedding Party."

ELLIOTT REID

Reid's work with Lucy goes back to "I Love Lucy". Here he plays three roles: Detective Harvey Gaines, Sammy Davis Jr.'s Director, and the host of Milton Berle's telethon.

PHIL VANDERVOORT

Vandervoort was (briefly) Lucille Ball's son-in-law and Lucy believed in keeping it in the family, casting her children, her husband, and her cousin-in-laws on the series. Vandervoort, a handsome young man, makes only three appearances but each one is made to look dramatically different, perhaps to obscure his leading man good looks. He plays Kim and Craig's musician friend Steve (the most 'normal' of his appearances), computer geek Joe Hackley, and beaded handman Tommy.

BARBARA MORRISON

Morrison returns to play two more imposing and imperious women: Harry's date Lady Agatha Warren, and finicky shopper Mrs. Murdock. With many other members of Lucy's acting company, she turns up as a diner in the series' penultimate episode.

HARRY HICKOX

Hickox was best known for playing anvil salesman Charlie Cowell in the 1962 film The Music Man. He played a drill sergeant on "The Lucy Show". He played three different policemen on “Here’s Lucy.”

BILLY SANDS

Sands played Mr. Larson, Lucy's milkman, in two episodes, but he also played Billy the bookie in a third appearance.

DON CRICHTON

Crichton was a dancer on "The Carol Burnett Show" and also did small roles, just as he did on "Here's Lucy". He danced in the series premiere, and then acted, playing Don in "Lucy, The Conclusion Jumper" (1968), and Steve in "Lucy, The American Mother" (1970).

LEW PARKER

Parker, best known as Marlo Thomas' father on "That Girl", was seen on the very first episode of "Here's Lucy" in 1968 as Mr. Caldwell. He returned in 1971 as Mr. Adams, the manager of an All-Nun Band.

LYLE TALBOT

Talbot, a veteran film actor, played Harry's Lawyer and his best pal from Bullwinkle U, Freddy Fox.

JACK MANNING

Manning played Mr. Walters, the manager of the showroom presenting teen idol Donny Osmond as well as Mr. Hubbell, a ceramics store owner who runs art classes, both during season 5.

RICHARD DEACON

Deacon was one of Desilu's favorites, appearing on "The Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour," "The Mothers-In-Law" and "The Dick Van Dyke Show." For "Here's Lucy" he played unemployment office worker (with show biz aspirations) Harvey Hoople, and Loan Officer Elmer Zellerbach.

ALAN OPPENHEIMER

Oppenheimer played the part of the previously unknown Uncle Herb Hinkley, Lucy's brother. He then turned up as Lucy's doctor, Dr. Matt Parker.

OTHERS WHO 'HIT A DOUBLE'

Robert L. Stevens (River Guide / Alan Stevens)

James Brodhead (Tilford / Mr. Miller)

Mike Howden (Ski Instructor / Flight Attendant)

Ivor Barry (Producer / French Chef)

Hal Dunlop (Major Dunlop / Mr. Greenway)

R.G. Brown (Office Manager / Walter, Eva Gabor's Assistant)

Ernest Sarracino (Mr. Nicoletti / Tony)

Cecil Gold (Fred / Cecil)

Jimmy Bates (Clarence / Billy Joe Jackson)

Robert Hogan (Captain Perry / Jack Lucas)

Johnny Silver (Mountie / Benny)

Jody Gilbert (King Kong Woman / Prison Matron)

Ed Hall (Officer Egan / Numbers Smith)

Marc Lawrence (Joe Grapefruit / Ruby)

Florence Lake (Little Old Lady / Trixie)

Eddie Quillan (Cabbie / Mr. Jackson)

Al Checco (Detective Bobby / Dr. Crawford)

Dick Winslow (Harvey / Nightclub Emcee)

Susan Tolsky (Sue Ann Ditbenner / Miss Quigley)

CELEBRITIES WHO DID 'DOUBLE DUTY'

CAROL BURNETT (Carol Krausmeyer / Herself)

MILTON BERLE (Cheerful Charlie / Himself)

ROBERT CUMMINGS (Bob Collins / Bob Henning)

EVA GABOR (Eva Von Graunitz / Herself)

PAUL WINCHELL (Carlo the Tailer / Little Old Jeweler & The Great Pierre Barmarche)

ED MCMAHON (Ed McAllister / Himself)

LUCILLE BALL (Lucy Carter / Herself)

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