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yukipri · 1 year

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I saw somewhere someone says it wasn't the Jedi fault what happened at Galidraan, they were there to arrest and investigate, not to kill, and it was the mando who attack first. Is that true ? I didn't read it

Ahh fandom misunderstandings about Galidraan continue.

Understandable, given it's from a relatively obscure base media but the event comes up a lot in fan works. I'll do my best to break it down.

All you need to know about the Massacre on Galidraan

The following info is all from the Legends comic Jango Fett: Open Seasons, specifically focussing on the 3rd installment, Winter. Here's a photo of my physical copy I have open as I type this, so you know I'm not pulling this info out of my ass.

First, some crucial facts:

1: Galidraan was not a Mandos vs Jedi conflict.

It may appear that way at first glance, and likely seemed that way to many outsiders across the Galaxy who only read about the massacre in a heavily censored news article. But while the battle was the True Mandalorians fighting against the Jedi and ultimately all dying except for Jango, that is not what the conflict was about.

2: There were 4 factions involved in Galidraan.

People oftentimes boil it down to Mandos vs Jedi, but that isn't accurate, because there were 4 parties involved:

The True Mandalorians (Haat Mando'ade; Jango's people)

The Jedi

Death Watch (led by Tor Vizsla, who killed Jaster, Jango's mentor)

The Governor of Galidraan

I have no idea why some fandom takes on Galidraan forget to mention the last two, when they are why the massacre took place at all.

3: The party responsible for the conflict on Galidraan was DEATH WATCH, with the Governor of Galidraan as their accomplice.

The Jedi were used, and the True Mandalorians were victims.

You can endlessly debate whether or not the Jedi or the True Mandalorians could have taken different actions to have possibly prevented the massacre. And it's true, it might have been possible! There were certainly other actions that both sides could have taken.

HOWEVER. That discussion can ONLY take place after understanding that both sides were very intentionally, and very MALICIOUSLY manipulated by a third party.

This was not a normal Jedi vs Mandos clash. Neither the Jedi nor the True Mandalorians would have fought (would have even been on the planet in the first place!) without these manipulations, so to ask which of the two was to blame without first understanding that Death Watch set them up is failing to get Galidraan at all.

Here's what happened at the Massacre of Galidraan:

Jango and the True Mandalorians took a job from the Governor of Galidraan to kill his political opponents. The True Mandalorians are mercenaries, and this was just a job for them. It's also implied that Jango knew in advance that the Governor of Galidraan had been harboring Tor Vizsla and funding Death Watch*, and he intentionally took the job in order to get the Governor to owe him and pay him with information on them.

Jango and the True Mandalorians killed the Governor's political opponents, just as they were hired to do, and upheld their agreement. When Jango goes to collect payment, it was a trap—Tor Vizsla and Death Watch were waiting for him, and attempted to kill him.

Jango escapes, but his jetpack is damaged, as are his comms (or perhaps more likely, his comms were intentionally blocked). This is important because Jango now knows explicitly that they were set up: that the Governor of Galidraan was always working with Death Watch, and that he and his people being called to this planet was a trap in order to kill them. He tries to warn the True Mandalorians (Myles, his second, to be exact) to evacuate, but is unable to reach them because of his comms connection.

Back with Death Watch and the Governor, after Vizsla fails to kill Jango, they watch as the Jedi land on planet. The Governor states: "Yes, as you [Tor Vizsla] instructed, I begged for [the Jedi/the Republic's] help. Informed them that the Mandalorians were slaughtering political activists, which is basically true."

So, let's get this straight: the Governor of Galidraan, who personally HIRED the True Mandalorians to get rid of his political opponents, is now calling the Jedi to say "Oh no the Mandalorians are killing political activists!" And he did so under the explicit orders of Tor Vizsla. He explicitly backstabbed the True Mandalorians.

Should note that the True Mandalorians do follow a code, and only killed the specific people considered a threat (aka combatants). The True Mandalorians did not touch civilians, but as you can see from frames above, Death Watch goes ahead and kills them to make false evidence against the True Mandalorians and therefore justify their slaughter.

Again: Death Watch/Tor Vizsla and the Governor of Galidraan EXPLICITLY set up the True Mandalorians/Jango.

Next: Jango gets back to the True Mandalorians' camp as soon as he can, and arrives just as a large group of Jedi arrive, led by Dooku. Their lightsabers are already drawn.

Dooku says to them: "You stand accused of murder. Surrender now and we will ensure that you are fairly treated."

The girl next to Dooku, presumably young Komari Vosa, adds, "But fight us, and we will bring swift justice!"

Jango's response: "Mandalorians, open fire! And shoot the loudmouth first!"

And so the battle begins.

Without any of the previous context, sure, it might be easy to say "Jango's responsible, he fired first." But take a moment to think about what led up to this moment.

Jango knows, explicitly, that Death Watch and the Governor are working together.

He knows that Death Watch just wants him dead, and in fact very literally just escaped being killed.

He knows that he and his people are caught in a trap, and that Death Watch and the Governor want them all dead.

He probably isn't sure how they're going to be killed—until he arrives back at camp, and sees a shitton of Jedi with their lightsabers drawn, who are accusing them of a crime they did not commit. And he must have thought, ah, that would do it.

This isn't a normal encounter with the Jedi. It's true that Mandalorians have reasons to dislike Jedi as a whole, but Jango didn't shoot first because of that.

Jango shot first because he recognized that the Jedi were the weapon that Death Watch and the Governor chose for the execution of himself and his people. And he wasn't wrong.

Could Jango have maybe stopped to have a gentlemanly chat with Dooku and say "Good sir, we did not commit any murder, you were told false information and are being manipulated and we the True Mandalorians have been set up. Please put away your lightsabers so we can talk"? I mean. He could have. But.

With all of the context above, his decision to raise arms also makes sense.

After the battle, all fo the True Mandalorians present have been killed except Jango, as well as roughly half of the Jedi. Many of those Jedi were killed by Jango himself, with nothing but his bare hands—this is how he gains his infamous reputation as a "Jedi Killer." But to him, he was acting in self-defense.

The Jedi—or rather, at least Dooku—realize that they have been used only after the fact, and that they've done something horribly wrong and have killed innocents. Surrounded by the bodies of Jedi and True Mandalorians, and having just watched Jango strangle one last Jedi, Dooku says:

"What have we done...?"

In the "present" of the comic (pre-clone deal), Dooku also tells Sidious about Galidraan, "It was a misguided mission from the start. And not the first of the Council's many...poor decisions."

So what happened afterwards?

Jango alone was captured alive, and for some darn reason the Jedi turned him over to the Governor of Galidraan*. The Governor sold Jango to slavers and he was forced to work on a spice transport, until an opportunity arose to escape.

After escaping, did Jango seek out the Jedi?

No.

He beelined straight back to Galidraan, where the Governor, who had sold him and worked with Death Watch, had taken his armor (Jaster's armor) as some sort of twisted war trophy. He recovered his armor, and threatened the governor to get info on Tor Vizsla's location.

After that, did he go on a revenge campaign against the Jedi?

No.

He went straight for Tor Vizsla, who was PERSONALLY responsible for the deaths of the True Mandalorians at Galidraan. And he fought him. And killed him.

(or more specifically, injured him then let dire-cats eat him alive. Looks like Fetts have always had good luck with animals)

So that's the facts about Galidraan.

After Thoughts:

I hope this breakdown of the events makes it explicitly clear that Death Watch and the Governor were at fault for Galidraan, and that it was never a Mandos vs Jedi conflict. The same thing would have happened had Death Watch chosen a different executioner—though to be fair, not much can kill a trained group of Mandalorian mercenaries like the True Mandalorians.

Could both the True Mandalorians and Jedi have taken different actions that could have averted tragedy? Possibly. But just as likely, had Jango tried to talk, word would have reached the Jedi's ears that oh no, more Mandalorians are slaughtering the Galidraan women and children! (what Death Watch was doing while the True Mandos and Jedi were fighting) and then one of the more hot headed Jedi like Vosa probably would have been like "These negotiations are a distraction! Even now you're killing innocents—we fight!" And the True Mandos would have been killed anyway.

Again, they were set up. The True Mandalorians to be killed, the Jedi to be used as their ignorant executioner. They were not the only parties involved, and any attempt to peacefully negotiate their way out of it would have been hindered by the true aggressors, who already had contingency plans at the ready. And also, both parties were already expecting certain things of the other: Jango knew the Jedi had been sent to kill them (though not why the Jedi believed they should), and the Jedi thought they were a bunch of murderers, not a professional group simply hired for a job.

This is just my personal take, but while I don't think either Jango nor Dooku acted unreasonably at the time of the battle, there were two points where I think they could have made better decisions (marked with * above):

1) When Jango decided to take a job on Galidraan in the first place, knowing in advance that the Governor was friendly with Tor Vizsla and Death Watch. Admittedly, the comic doesn't provide much context for this, and perhaps the intel Jango had suggested a more distant connection, or something else to imply the Governor would be willing to rat out Death Watch. It seems almost cute that Jango goes ok, well I don't want to just randomly bust this guy's door down to threaten him for info on my arch nemesis, so I'm going to do a job for him and get him to owe me, and then we'll talk.

If there is one not so intelligent move Jango made, it seems like this one, though again there's not much context so perhaps it does make more sense.

2) When the Jedi give Jango to the Governor of Galidraan. I don't know about the rest of the Jedi, but Dooku at least seemed to sense that something had gone horribly wrong with the mission immediately after the battle, before they took Jango into custody. But despite KNOWING this, they didn't take the time to thoroughly investigate (better late than never) before handing Jango to his enemies on a silver platter. I would say that the Jedi ARE pretty responsible for this part, especially since they had reason to know better.

This action of the Jedi handing Jango over also implies that even if Jango had complied and he and all of the True Mandalorians had surrendered to the Jedi in hopes of talks, the Jedi would have handed them all over to the Governor (and Death Watch) to either be turned into slaves or executed. So no, I don't think that would have worked out well at all.

(I'm going to give at least Dooku the benefit of doubt, since the comic shows that at least he (and possibly he alone of the Jedi present) recognized that something was wrong. I'd hope that as the leader and presumably most senior member of the group of Jedi, he'd have some sort of authority, but then again, this is the Senate. He might have tried to at least delay Jango being handed over to the Governor until an investigation was conducted, but was perhaps held back by too much legal tape, and had to watch as someone he was sure was a victim was handed over to a suspicious party. Maybe he personally did an investigation afterwards and found that his bad feelings were correct, but when he tried to bring it up with the Council/Senate, he was told to forget about it. That would certainly shatter what remaining faith he had in the Republic and the Jedi, and possibly also lead him to search out Jango specifically as a candidate for the clone project—but again, this is purely speculation. Either way, Galidraan forms a potentially very fascinating connection between Dooku and Jango that predates Sidious.)

On the Jedi:

While the Galidraan conflict isn't about the Jedi, and they were simply used, I think internally, it does reveal some deep flaws in the Jedi Order as a whole, and that Dooku's criticisms of how they acted are fair. Dooku tells Jango, "[Galidraan] was the last of my foolish errands for the Senate. And the Jedi."

The Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers, are supposed to understand and help people across the Galaxy, which their connection to the Force is supposed to help with. But by becoming an entity controlled by a political power that responds to mission requests through that chain, the Jedi are at risk of being used for various political agendas, sometimes to terrible consequences—like at Galidraan.

The quote above shows that the orders for the Jedi came from the Senate, who got them from the Governor of Galidraan. The fact is that the Jedi are a completely external force with zero familiarity with Galidraan or its current happenings, who were summoned by a government to do their bidding. If there was any investigation done, it clearly wasn't enough, and the Jedi were essentially turned into super deadly government attack dogs.

Galidraan laid bare the great danger that the Jedi can be, when their power is given to the wrong hands. Again, the Jedi were used—but that they could be used, that they likely have been used in the past and will be used in the future so long as they are beholden to a Republic whose orders they must follow—that's something to think about.

Again, it's not about Jedi vs Mandos. Sure, the fact that the Jedi have bad history with Mandos may have affected the lack of depth in their investigation. But it could have just as easily been "Group of X people are murdering innocents!" and the very same thing could have happened. This conflict revealed far less, "wow the Jedi really hate Mandos!" and more, "the Jedi and the Republic have a flawed relationship, and obeying government orders does not necessarily a peacekeeper make."

Given that the Jedi decided to give Jango to the Governor, I think it's very likely that no deep investigation was ever done into Galidraan, and if it was, it was covered up. After all, it's against the Republic's interests to show that they passed manipulated info to the Jedi, because they can't have the Jedi wanting to question future orders or worse, refuse to obey! And in a way, it's against the Order's interests to show that they not only fucked up by going to the mission at all, but further fucked up by handing the last surviving victim to the enemy after the fact. Add to that the fact that Death Watch was on site actively manipulating evidence and muddling the truth, and Jango no longer has anyone left alive to vouch for him so it's only his word, it's very likely that the truth really never got out of the small circle of those personally involved.

Perhaps the Jedi taught about Galidraan internally as a cautionary tale about being careful about the orders they're given. But given the above, I think that's incredibly generous and frankly unlikely.

On Jango Fett

This leads me to a final point: I disagree that Jango passionately hates and wants revenge on the Jedi.

At least, based on this story, as well as his depiction in the Bounty Hunters video game (which is supposed to be a sequel to this comic, even though its depiction of the start of the cloning contract isn't mutually compatible with the version in this comic) Jango doesn't actually really appear to care all that much about the Jedi at all.

You can say what you will about his actions, but he always has a very clear target for who his enemy is, and he goes straight for them. Immediately post Galidraan, it was the Governor of Galidraan and then Tor Vizsla specifically—not even the rest of Death Watch!

And while there isn't all that much official info on what Jango did after he killed Vizsla until he was pulled into the cloning project, I see zero evidence that he was consumed by revenge, or that he attempted to hunt down the rest of Death Watch or kill any Jedi despite the harm they have done to him in the past.

In fact, from his depiction at the start of the Bounty Hunters game, which I think is the best source of this period of his life that I can think of, it looks like Jango just kind of threw himself into bounty hunting work. After all, one does not have the reputation as "best bounty hunter in the galaxy" overriding "former Mand'alor, leader of the True Mandalorians" unless he did, well, a lot of bounty hunting.

He was a loner who didn't have any friends, which implies he didn't go looking for any surviving True Mandalorians—and there must have been, not everyone could have been in that battle. I suspect it's out of guilt, but that's a separate discussion. He didn't go hunting Jedi specifically, because presumably not many Jedi (who still identify as Jedi) have bounties on them, and "Jedi Killer" would certainly be a reputation louder than bounty hunter if that was his main focus.

But no. He was just a sad, lost dude who's really good at killing people so continues the Honorable Mercenary traditions of his people who are now gone, all by himself. Even the contest that lead to him being chosen as the Prime clone was originally just another job, and he just happened to meet Montross in the process, but he didn't really go out of his way to hunt him down either, despite how he was personally responsible for Jaster's death.

However—if you don't know that about Jango, and again don't have a full understanding of what happened at Galidraan (which again, I doubt many people do), I think it would be very easy to go oh! The Jedi killed all his people! So of course he hates Jedi!

(Which then provides a reason for why the Sith would think he would want to work with them to hurt Jedi—but does NOT explain why the Jedi would not think it suspicious that he's the Prime clone for an army supposedly made to help them. But that too is a separate exploration.)

All of this makes Jango a very fascinating character for me, and I could go on to explore his motivations and actions so much more—and in fact I do!!! All of those explorations of Jango and his motives and past are included as a large part of my fic, The Prime Override! So I won't go into it more here, this post is long enough, but you can check out my thoughts there! (LMAO sudden self-promo)

But anyway!!! I hope this whole thing was interesting for you, and that it helped you understand what happened at Galidraan better!

Again, the comic is Jango Fett: Open Seasons, written by Hayden Blackman, art by Ramon Bachs, Raul Fernandez, and Brad Anderson, published by Dark Horse Comics in 2002.

While I believe the standalone comic is out of print (I had to hunt down my copy on ebay), it's all included in Marvel Unlimited's digital comic library. It's also in the Star Wars Omnibus: Emissaries & Assassins collection, which might be cheaper because it's more recent.

As tragic as Jango's past is, it's one of my favorite Legends stories and I recommend reading the story for yourself if you can!

❀ ❀ Send YukiPri an Ask! ❀ ❀

#YukiPri rambles #YukiPri replies #Galidraan #Jango Fett #Star Wars #Star Wars Legends #Count Dooku #SW Lore #Open Seasons #comics #longpost #long post #OP comment: All of this is also why it absolutely BAFFLES me that new canon seems so obsessed with Death Watch #and has made lots of other Mando factions but hasn't really done much about the True Mandalorians???#like that is what I was expecting the Book of Boba Fett to be about #especially given the timing of being after Mando S2 and Din getting the Darksaber but before Mando S3 #Should note: this comic predates the Darksaber's existence by 8 years #so people who say 'oh Jango and Jaster were never the true leaders of Mandalore bc they never had the Darksaber'#my dude the Darksaber did not appear as a concept until 8 years after these stories were published #Anyway if you are like me and think gosh most of the new canon Mando factions are real assholes in some way or another #why is there no Hero Group #here they are: the True Mandalorians and Boba Fett's heritage #Anyway really REALLY hoping they bring this story back into new canon #Jaster was an easter egg and now technically canon thanks to Boba's armor chain code which means True Mandos are also presumably canon #so here's to hoping...#Anyway yeah I wrote this essay in place of updating fic oops

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suffersinfandom · 4 months

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I was going to make some embarrassing, fluffy New Year post about how grateful I am for OFMD and this fandom and how cool it is to be here and participating for the first time ever (I mean, I made some goofy meme edits for BSG and Star Wars, but I sure as heck wasn’t brave enough to share actual thoughts). I was going to type about how awesome and smart and funny so many of the people I follow here are and how much I love all of the meta and art and fanfic, and I was going to go on about how important OFMD is to me and how much it’s brightened up my life.

But then I logged on and remembered how flawed this fandom is, too. It makes me sad to see all of the insults and personal attacks in a fandom that is -- or at least claims to be -- more queer and more accepting and more invested in kindness and goodness than any other I’ve come across.

There’s the block button, I know (believe me, I use it every time I come across someone who goes on about how abusive Ed is because I absolutely won’t entertain that), but the hostility runs deep and blocking alone isn’t fixing anything. People act like the mere existence of interpretations that contradict their own are direct attacks on their character, and they retaliate by calling people idiots with zero reading comprehension and abuse apologists and cruel sadists who wouldn’t know suffering if it bit them on the dick and so on. It’s not enough to disagree; we have to tear people down and insult them and make everyone angrier by showing our followers strawman arguments being tossed around by ~the other side~.

Don’t get me wrong, there are definitely abhorrent takes that demonstrate, at best, ignorance on the part of the person making it. We should call those out!

Idk, I just wish we could have discussions and disagreements without attacking actual human people. Like, I love it when people engage with things they don’t agree with in good faith and pick apart arguments and make new points. I even love passive-aggressive indirect responses to bad takes. Those can be very fun and, tbh, it’s not a fandom without a little pettiness, as a treat.

But it sucks to scroll around and see people in your fandom throwing out very personal insults and attacking others for interpreting things differently or thinking a fake guy is a piece of shit, y’know? I want better for us. We deserve better.

Also, just to be clear, this isn’t in response to anything specific, okay? I was just generally set off when I scrolled through the OFMD tag today and saw yet another “well, if you don’t see things the way I do, you’re a stupid piece of shit who loves abuse” post from someone I hadn’t gotten around to blocking yet. Not to get personal, but as someone who was regularly called an abusive, stupid piece of shit by someone who was genuinely abusing me when I had the nerve to challenge them, that kind of thing can be legit triggering if it hits at the wrong time.

Also also: I do feel all of those things that I mentioned in the first paragraph! I’m so grateful for OFMD and the fans of it! There are so many brilliant and talented people around here, and I know I wouldn’t be as bummed about the unsavory parts of OFMD fandom if I didn’t love it so much as a whole.

#ofmd #fandom critical #new year same me lol #i'm not trying to accomplish anything here #just venting a little #maybe hoping someone will see it and go #oh dang i was insulting people and didn't even think about it #time to be nicer #time to screenshot and dunk on bad takes without attacking the op directly #TO BE CLEAR #i think most people in the fandom are chill and cool #if this isn't about you don't make it about you y'know

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joshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh · 24 days

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Actually sighing coming up with things to say about this. Your cast are the same obviously, composer and sound director as well - we kept Asaka but not Eri Sasaki, but that sort of change doesn't really matter I'd say. All of the producers have been here before, although the number of them was cut in half. And then everything else is different. Your studio is the big easy one to point to, alongside your director. Different character designer, art director, colour designer, series composition, director of photography, background artists, the works. But that's not a bad thing, right. Like, even for fairly prolific series you see studio changes all the time, core staff changes a little less frequently but it still happens. And like it doesn't have to be a bad thing - sometimes a show will even look and feel better once its in someone else's hands. The problem here is...

What the fuck is this? This looks really bad. It's distractingly ugly. There's always been a contrast between Yuru Camp's quite realistic backgrounds and simplistic character designs but the former had enough of a painterly overlay to where everything harmonised and the whole thing looked pretty great! We're not getting that here. The characters and the objects in motion just look like they're imposed over real photography. Or alternatively you have something like the first and third shot there where every element clearly exists on separate layers with separate rendering detail and so the entire image looks really bad, like that composition is downright amateur, right? This hurts me to look at.

And like, look. This isn't the majority of the season so far. Most shots look fine. Not good, nowhere close to what was on offer before (even bearing in mind shit like the visible google maps logo in the second season), but they look fine. I don't like the character designs quite as much but I can get used to them just fine and they animate well enough. I still have many of my favourite seiyuu giving many of their most pleasant sounding performances. Yumiri Hanamori in particular I don't get enough of her in my usual anime-watching life, especially doing the Nadeshiko voice. Akiyuki Tateyama is still giving us one of the most relaxing anime soundtracks I've ever heard, but with enough going on to where I can actually listen to them in most moods. And more than anything else it's still Yuru Camp. I'm still getting to see a bunch of cute girls I like go camping and enjoy nature and be sweet and lovely. I'm still expecting to come home after a stressful day and put on Yuru Camp and just completely decompress. I'm still going to enjoy this.

But fuck me man if visuals like this aren't gonna just keep distracting me for the rest of the runtime.

#yuru camp #4.4.24 #i really do wish i was one of those people that could 'turn my brain off' to stuff like this but #it just doesn't work like that for me unfortunately #oh well #sidenote i couldn't find anywhere to slot this into the main body but i really love the new op!#the song is super good and visually it might actually be my favourite so far! even despite the rest of the production!#but yeah here's to what's gonna be the hardest season of yuru camp to watch yet

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shivasdarknight · 8 months

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[Image ID: A screenshot of user redwinterroses (from Jan 27, 2022) tinted yellow to indicate that it is a screenshot and not a post on the dashboard. The screenshot reads: All I'm saying is, if a fic refers to characters by their physical attributes instead of their names or pronouns ("he smiled at the older" "the blonde laughed") when we know who the character is, and ESPECIALLY if the descriptions include "ravenette" or "cyanette" or other ridiculous words--

I'm clicking out of that fic so fast my Ao3 history won't even register I've been there. /.EndID]

I'm gonna use this as a launching point for something that really bugs me with regards to how people - especially folks on tumblr - talk about fanfiction and if something isn't "up to snuff" or to their tastes. This ranges anywhere from grammar and punctuation, to even judgement towards someone for their skill in writing and how they frame it on tumblr - such as word choice or dialogue tags (said and its variants). Plenty of other things that get torn into (like POV type like first, second, or third (usually its first getting dunked on, second if you're not a Homestuck); or even tropes) but that's a different discussion, and I'm focusing more on how people talk about things that are "subpar". There are many posts like this, but I want to use this one to talk more about it as it's the one I most recently found. We're going to talk about this attitude, critique vs criticism vs what tumblr thinks is good critique with regards to writers (regardless of skill level, but mostly beginner ones), so this will get a bit lengthy.

Let's get definitions out of the way so everyone is clear here. When I say critique, this is in reference to feedback given towards a thing (writing, art, etc.) with the intention of improving upon it. Critique has a narrow scope, but it often addresses subject, form, technical aspects (in writing, form and technicality are grammar/punctuation, style, and prose - the latter of which is what OP is digging into), and execution. Critique includes both negative and positive aspects because it's important for good critique. Critique isn't tearing into someone for the sake of it, because the point of critique is to improve upon these aspects and become more comfortable in your craft. To take critiques is a skill in its own, but so is giving critiques - the best advice is usually a "critique sandwich" in which you say something positive, point out something that can be improved upon (importantly: not saying negatively charged things), and then summarize in a positive tone. Critique is not an excuse to bully, and critique should always be consensual. Critique appears in classes, in the form of beta readers, asking others for advice, and so on and so forth. The person who made the thing must be open to critique for critique to be effective. If they are not looking for critique and you give it anyways, you're just an ass.

On the other hand, criticism - especially in this context - is broader than critique. It tends to have a more negative connotation of it, but to be critical of something isn't inherently to be negative to it. This is where you see your media criticism, dissection of trends, etc. This doesn't usually engage directly with the source of the criticism most often, it's usually supplementary. Again: broader than critique, but its space does not often overlap with the original thing. Important to note that criticism does not inherently mean that the critic hates the thing being criticized. Criticism is just being critical of a thing. To be critical is not inherently negative; it's just talking about something to a finer degree than casual consumption. It's not admonishment, it's often a way to start a discussion.

This is where people tend to balk at the idea of criticizing fan media because they conflate the two, but critique =/= criticism. Critique is more based in the craft itself (art, writing, etc.) while criticism is more about the broader impact of the thing made by the craft. While critiques do exist in criticisms, and critique can draw from criticism, they are not the same thing.

Examples:

Critique:

Your inking wasn't consistent, so the final print is splotchy. You need to improve on inking your block if you want your final image to look the way you intend it to

You added too much ink to the block and caused a lot of spillage, you need to find a balance between the two in order to get what you want

I like the gestural nature of your drawing, but I think that you would get a stronger composition if you pushed it further and focus on line weight

The alliteration is a really nice touch in your prose, but you fall back on it a lot. I think that the alliteration would be more effective in this moment if you limit it to that moment and change up how you write prose leading into it - maybe slowly increasing the repetition until you get to the three-beats?

Your prose is really strong, and I like what you've developed so far. What I think you need to work on is learning how you can control your technical flow with better punctuation usage, such as a better understanding of when to use commas or em-dashes.

You're using periods at the end of your dialogue that is followed by a tag. Unless there's nothing like "he said", then periods in dialogue must be a comma. Not "'Alright.' He responded.", but: "'Alright,' he responded.".

Criticism:

There is a common trend within fandom to take a female love interest from canon and find a way to shove her off to the side for the sake of m/m shipping. It's come in a variety of forms, but the most notable ones include villainizing, killing her off, or the modern lesbian best friend/wingman which overlaps with the other modern form, the mean lesbian adjacent to the m/m ship.

Despite all the advancements that have been made in terms of accessibility within video games, it almost seems like some games are more inaccessible than ever due to developers prioritizing a key experience rather than making sure it's playable for everyone. A good example of this would be the MMO, Final Fantasy XIV, and its late game raiding that features many fights with non-toggleable flashes that have induced seizures in players, or their lack of color contrast options for color blind players - forcing both groups to either suffer through the content, not raid, or seek out illegal mods if they play on pc. Console raiders have no such options, as the in game effects toggle doesn't apply to the worst offenders.

With these examples out of the way, look back at OP and how they've framed their "advice" (which they say is advice further down this thread - as with all others who jump in on the post with "advice") - does this look like critique or criticism?

This style of post - and how everyone jumped on it - are part of a really frustrating trend online, but especially on tumblr, where people make vague complaints about a kind of writer and use their vague posting to tear into them. At this point, most people understand that unwanted critique is bad, so they instead channel that need to critique in stuff like this. From here on, I'm going to call it ""advice"" - quotations and all.

This is not advice. It's not even good critique. This ""advice"" is taking a common mistake or habit of fanfic writers - most of whom are new to writing, are teenagers, or haven't been professionally trained in writing because so few people have that opportunity - and then tearing it to shreds. This is looking at a habit that fanfic authors learning how to write picked up from other authors learning how to write, and then declaring that if a writer uses it you will not engage with them whatsoever.

That's not advice. It's a vague threat through shaming people for doing stuff. The thread goes on to list actual advice, but most of it is the most bare bones writing tips that doesn't account for people experimenting with style. It's shame through nitpicking and expecting everything to be perfection.

Fanfiction is held to a really awful standard in which it must meet every single one of your needs as a reader, otherwise it's not worth your time. Between the lack of support on platforms like AO3 or FFNet, and then these mass shaming posts that tear into writers for having the audacity of making a mistake, is it any surprise a lot of fanfic writers give up? Why so many fanfics you like just go unfinished with no word from the author?

Tumblr is too comfortable with this idea that they get to sit here and tear into authors who may not be using perfect syntax or use goofy words like silverette. You are looking at someone stumbling their way through a hobby that is admittedly very hard and tearing into them behind their back. When people see these posts, their fist reaction isn't go go "oh thank you for the advice," it's to get self conscious about their own writing and if they do fit the bill, they're not likely to take your advice. They may just stop writing altogether.

What gets to me is that this ""advice"" - this shaming framed as tips from people who "Actually Know how to write" - is it's considered a more widely acceptable way of talking about fanfiction and fanfiction authors than actually supporting authors you like. It's more acceptable than passing around resources. It's more acceptable than actual criticism of harmful things in fandom (see: colonizer lan wangji, op of this thread has talked about it a fair amount) that the criticism of would then make spaces safer for the people impacted (in that case, address the anti-indigenous writing of a horrific fic in the MDZS fandom that was trying to romanticize the tactics used in the genocide of indigenous americans).

Tumblr users seem to know to not take unwanted critique to the comments of the author in question, yet they can't seem to keep their mouths shut; instead, they curate hundreds of posts with thousands of notes to shame authors who have committed the grave sin of using goofy words or having awkward prose - which I'm so sure that no of the people making these posts have ever made mistakes like these in their own writing </sarcasm>

This collective shaming of writing characteristic of people learning how to write or who aren't super familiar with English doesn't sit right with me. Especially since so much of it feels like a reflexive cringe for things that the person grew out of. Maybe something isn't your style, but maybe it works for someone else. Everyone complains about the repetition of "said", but there are some hard hitting stories that weaponize the repetition of "said" for effect. Consider OP: a very specific one that I use still is bluenette, in part because I am a brunette who dies his hair blue very frequently - thus, bluenette (brunette+his is not incorrect in usage for myself, check my pinned; brunet+she would also not be incorrect - so do not come nitpicking me). Bluenette sounds so much like brunette that it comes off as a pun, and in this case it is used intentionally for said pun and often as a joke somewhere in my writing or even just conversation. Is OP going to also apply this logic to people who refer to women as brunets or blonds, or men as brunettes or blondes? Sometimes stuff like this is someone trying to work out their style. Sometimes it's a genuine mistake. Sometimes it's someone doing this with the utmost intention of calling a character by their hair color as a sign of disrespect through denying them their name - you do not know why it's used, and to publicly shame people for a common mistake is not how you're going to get them to improve.

The way ""advice"" is delivered feels like reflexive cringe, like I said, but also like a gross misrepresentation of what criticism is. Criticism's goal is discussion and improvement. Posts like these are just a way to shame people who aren't as skilled as you expect them to be. Let me make this clear: you are reading fanfiction. Many people use fanfiction to learn how to write, and may not have the most polished style. You are reading this for free. It's frankly really shitty to nitpick at someone's writing style and skill and then put it on blast for thousands of people on tumblr to jump in on this dogpile. Even when you give advice - such as in this post down beyond this screen - it's still framed negatively and in a "do this or you're bad" kind of critique. This is not framed to actually help people with their writing; this is shaming them into the style that you like and find engaging. And every following post beyond the advice from OP in this example further dogpiles the original point.

If you are shaming someone through a vague post because you don't like the fact that they're not a skilled writer, then it's clear you do not actually care about these people improving. You would rather mass shame writers who don't fit your view of what technically flawless prose looks like - be it because they're a teenager, they learned writing from online spaces and are still learning, or English isn't their first language - than actually teach them in a way that would be conducive to learning. You would rather have people jump in on this mass shaming as a sense of self importance because none of you write that way, thus everyone else who does is bad.

This is not critique. This is not criticism.

This is shaming writers - specifically writers who are still learning - for the fact that they do not match your expectations, and then gloating about how you never want to touch their work ever again.

The example above is shaming a common writing habit of teenagers and new writers who learned independently, and then following that shame with a threat to never engage with their stuff again, and then some tips sprinkled in with more "if you do this, shame on you" language.

You know, the exact stuff that makes people quit writing as a hobby or trying to learn it because they want to join in when it concerns this aspect of fandom.

This kind of ""advice"" is just vague blogging a writer to shame them. They may not ever see it, but Tumblr sure does a good job of keeping people from ever attempting to write because of the unreasonably high standards for a new/inexperienced writer putting stuff on the internet.

#ao3 #fanfiction #writing #fandom critical #writing advice #lbr its more like writing advice critical #but i loath to call something like that advice #original #long post #ive got a lot of feelings about this because of how rocky my start was with writing #most of my improvement was done offline due to the flack i was getting on deviantArt for frankly anything that I made #didn't matter if it was writing or drawing or mmd stuff. people took their opinions directly to you #add on tumblr's brand of ''''advice'''' and you get a nervous wreck who's struggling to post fanfiction #i'm only where i'm at because of how much i wrote away from people which is also why posts like the one above dont get me down about writin #but thats because i'm at where i'm at. i'm not a new writer ive been doing this for over a decade #i also know that my younger sister raced to ''get good'' at writing because of the shit that i'd gotten #i had a rocky phase with my writing that she didn't because she was actively trying to avoid the vulnerable phase that OP is dunking on #yeah when you're still getting on your feet with writing you do pick up stuff like that from other awkward people #they're all looking to each other for examples and it's not helpful to fucking shame people for it #what happened to cringe is dead oh wait. that only applies to what you like. and not what affects you.#when people go ''why do my favorite fics die'' and ''why arent there many writers'' its because of shit like this #shaming people for growing pains is embarrassing behavior #especially when you follow up that shame with a threat to never engage with them #im glad i got batshit about my writing and stopped caring about other people's opinions. new writers can't say the same.#also i hate the gendering of brunet/brunette blond/blonde its so fucking DUMB

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may-or-may-not-be-me · 4 months

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Getting weaned off a medication for a chronic condition is like wow. I know the withdrawal is making things more exaggerated but how did I LIVE like this

#op #like I really was just out here unable to breathe on a daily basis #and I was like yeah that's just life.#MAAM BREATHING IS ESSENTIAL LIFE FUNCTION #anyways boutta beg my doctor for some new medicine if I truly can't be on this anymore because..... god do I miss being able to...#... breathe all day most days. wow.#so glad my drug isn't something doctors get all 'she's an addict!' uppity about #people who have to deal with that: you're so strong I'm so sorry oh my god #i comment #my health

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chiaroscuroverse · 1 year

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Welp, apparently time to blacklist the tags midjourney and stable diffusion 😒

#'wow amazing looking fan art' oh....that's because it's other people's stuff sucked up and extruded by a computer #🔪#between this and the whole ao3 situation the next few years are going to be so fucking annoying #anti ai art #✊#eta:#i saw the op tag because it was so pro looking that I was like: who is this artist? i haven't seen that name #maybe they're from the olden days yadda yadda nope just a new account making ai destiel and others #i guess i respect that they tagged it but bah #*csv

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hugepolecat3298 · 2 years

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one of the bizarrest contradictions i think in how the toxically masculine act is how theyre all “ohhh nobody takes mens mental health seriouslyyyy i want to die all the time but nobody cares cause im a MAN” and then they turn around and go “its pussy shit to not like it when your friends mock you when youre hurt or upset. it just means that you dont have a sense of humour. thats just how real men show care and affection” like ok sir have you considered that maybe youll stop wanting to kill yourself if you tell your friends that you dont like it when they call you a gay crybaby for having to stay home sick from something

#originals #this was prompted by this fucking post i saw earlier which i havent stopped seething over #it was someone being glad that their friend made them their fav soups and brought them in containers to their house when they were sick #ZERO indication of either op's gender or the friend's gender btw #and every comment was like. either trying to emasculate the soup maker (who we dont know the gender of) or saying they just wanted to smash #and some sane people were pointing out that is THE bizarrest reaction to an act of kindness espo bc op was ignoring all of them #and they were just like huh whuh what i tell my friends that i hope they kill themselves when they say theyre feeling a little down #like thats just how men show friendship bro if we do actual kind things for people it just means we want sex #like HELLO????? are you trying to parody yourselves????? and it wasnt one troll either the majority of the comments were like this #oh this also reminds me of how someone got upset that their new therapist had a mug that said 'patient tears go here'#and all these cucks in the comments started insulting op for not liking it and saying they dont have a sense of humour and that theyre not #gonan get better if they cant handle people mocking them when theyre at their most vulnerable #which is again jawdropping because a therapist has total fucking control over you #if a friend says something like that its just mean but if a therapist says something like that its a genuine threat #like normal adults are stupid enough to simply not understand the implications behind 24 7 mocking people but if a therapist does it then it #means that they actively want you to kill yourself or just fall deeper into being suicidal so they get more money #the amount of people who think that therapists want to help people and not make them worse to suck them dry makes me scream #its even worse when theyre like ohhh its a safe environment youre safe NO THE FUCK IT IS NOT?#first of all you are always monitored by a third party be it your parents or just mikes second if you say a SINGLE thing that they dont like #whoopsie doopsy guess that means youre gonna be hospitalised! we dont want THAT now do we! if you express suicidal ideation EVER again we #will be sending you straight there for indeterminate amounts of time! like come the fuck on #i hate therapists and i hate people who try to make you kill yourself and then act all innocent about it

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bobigleux · 2 years

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I wasn't prepared for chapter 1054 what the fuck

#me 15 minutes ago suddenly remembering there's a new op chapter :#oh cool a chill and easy read before going to bed :)#it was neither chill NOR easy #i mean i guess it was technically easy but #still #Shanks ??? Sabo ???#Cobra is what now #and Vivi ????#and i'm learning all of this through fucking Akainu of all people ?#The Shanks come back scares me a little please please please #don't force me to watch Red in order to understand the whole canon story #i don't want to watch this movie #will Luffy have to fight Shanks because he's gonna beat up Bartholomew ?#Shanks is such a weird character when you think about it #like he's one of the oldest character of the story yet we know next to nothing about him or what he wants #like there's a 50/50 chance he's gonna fight Luffy at first glance or hug him #there is no in between #is he gonna go beat up Barto to create a reason for Luffy to come after him ?#is he going after the One Piece now just because Luffy is close to it ?#Shanks babe were you just chilling at sea waiting for Luffy to show up ? for YEARS ?#idk why im writing this like its an interrogation i know that's exactly what he did #My problem with Shanks is that i freaking love him but i also have zero trust in him #i don't know what going on in his head #also i feel like i forgotten some important info but i can't find what it is #anyway Oda is back so my op ramblings appear again #also just to be clear i have no trust in the info they gave us about Sabo Cobra and the reverie #op spoilers #as always #speaking of spoilers i was surprised to have heard none of that before reading it myself #but i'm glad i didn't it was fun to discover

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silcosimpo · 1 year

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Hiiii I'm onyx (they/them) (MINORS DO NOT INTERACT) I wanna make more friends and meet cool people, PLS DM me of you are interested in games like borderlands, horror games in general, RPG makers, gore, FPS etccc!! I adore DC comics (the rouge gallery in specific the Riddler) and I love arcane!!!

I also adore toys and I collect fashion dolls (with a strong hyperfixation on Moznter highs)

Also I would love to have a group of friends for co op games and multiplayer:)

I'm also an artist and I do music :D o⁠(⁠(⁠*⁠^⁠▽⁠^⁠*⁠)⁠)⁠o

#i wanna meet new people:)#make friends #friends #interact #dm open #absolutely open dont be shy #ill be surprised if anyone actually takes intrest in me #i bet not even my already made friends would oh well doesnt hurt to try #borderlands #arcane #riddler #tales from the borderlands #co op #games #multiplayer

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horce-divorce · 2 years

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i have to fight the urge to remind ppl that Michigan exists bc I am actually fundamentally fine w that idea. Yes, fucking FORGET. Stop coming here. Leave the dunes alone. Make your own goddamn fudge

#me #they keep saying that bc of global warming #well 2 things #1. michigan is the new florida which unfortunately does seem to be coming true #2. everyone's gonna move here when the rest of Earth is on fire bc we're gonna have a bunch of water #i dont like the intersection of these 2 things and im very nervous abt how its gonna pan out tbh #like socioeconomically speaking #im not saying im against climate refugees coming here that would be ghoulish #just that im anxious abt how the Powers That Be will handle the 2 things together ykw i mean #like we do seemingly have some competency about conservation #but theres absolutely no resources out here #i cant stress that enough like. north of Muskegon its JUST woods and we dont have resources #even for the small communities that already exist here #and the economic divide/gentrification in the tourist towns is a whole thing #people are saying it but i dont think anyones Ready for it is all and its gonna be like covid #where we were saying for years 'ope better get ready this could happen' and then it was happening #and everyone went 'oh no who couldve foreseen this we simply cant afford to address it properly.'#just like w every other facet of the economy ig #just seems like itll be rough for everyone involved. perhaps more than it otherwise could be

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just-your-average-tangerine · 10 months

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Easily the worst part of working night shift is having to spend 30 minutes to an hour of every shift fixing all the things that day shift fucked up that they weren't even supposed to be touching in the first place.

#day shift comes in like #oh this baby formula that was already worked today wont fit on the shelf?#better stuff it behind the diapers so the diapers wont fit properly on the shelf #and no one will find the formula #oh this box of baby food on the backstock cart is perfectly organized?#better move it all around rip the box and break 2 of the jars without actually getting any of it to the shelf #because the shelf is full #because this store is shopped at almost exclusively by people over 70 so no one is buying fucking baby food #oh you organized this cart so that the old worn out boxes hold all the light weight stuff so it doesnt break #and the lighter items can be moved to the sturdier boxes as spaces opens up so the worn box can be recycled first?#better break down and throw away the new sturdy box and put all the heavy stuff in the worn out box #op

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osaemu · 5 months

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GOJO SATORU: ❛❛ FINDERS KEEPERS, LOSERS WEEPERS! ❜❜

.ೃ࿐ streamer!au: the user "gojoslittleslut" tries to make a move on your boyfriend, but she doesn't stand a chance

contents: fem!reader. it's not too serious, nobody gets angry/jealous (except the comments lol). if u haven't already read the other streamer!gojo works u probably should so u understand the dynamic between satoru and his commenters !

author's note: reader is actually a mature person who doesn't pick fights with random ppl on the internet and i think we should all be more like her ꨄ︎

satoru leans back in his chair, idly chatting with people who pop up in his comments after he finishes his last round of the co-op game. his viewers are eager to chat, and some even shoot money satoru's way to draw his attention. whenever someone donates money, he gives them a quick shoutout and has a small back-and-forth with them, and he does that for everyone.

that is, until a user with a questionable username donates to his stream.

gojoslittleslut has donated $100.00!

gojoslittleslut: notice me pls

"shit, a hundred dollars?" satoru says, raising his eyebrows in mild surprise. "thanks, gojoslittl— oh, fuck, what is that?"

you look up from your laptop and see the way your boyfriend's cheeks have gone bright red. satoru laughs a bit nervously, so you get up and walk over, making sure to stay out of sight of the camera. you sit on satoru's desk beside his computer and peer at his screen curiously.

gojoslittleslut: im ur number one fan~

satoru's eyes flicker to yours for a second before he looks back at his monitor. "ah, well, thanks for the donation!" he replies, completely ignoring the user's advances.

suguru-geto: he has a gf ...

gojoslittleslut: yeah

gojoslittleslut: me

you cover your mouth to suppress a giggle, scrunching up your nose at satoru to let him know that you really weren't taking it too seriously. after all, it's just some random person on the internet—they don't stand a chance with your boyfriend.

satoru reaches over and takes your hand, twining his fingers with yours off-camera. he ignores the sudden burst of comments that litter the corner of his screen, instead watching you intently. in response, you roll your eyes playfully and blow him a kiss, snickering when satoru pretends to faint.

eventually, he turns back to his screen, cerulean eyes doing a quick once-over of his new comments.

toji-fushiguro: ill take his gf any day

inumaki: we know gtfo

gojoslittleslut: toji i get gojo and u take his girl. deal?

toji-fushiguro: bet

"alright guys, settle down," satoru huffs, rolling his eyes. "for the record, i still have a girlfriend and i don't plan on changing that anytime soon," he clarifies, addressing the current feud going on in his comments.

satoru's a good streamer—he does his best to keep things cordial and lighthearted with his audience, but he also knows his limits. one of his limits involves people trying to separate you and him, his one true pairing (of course satoru's otp is his own relationship).

your boyfriend leans closer to the screen and scowls good-naturedly, holding up the hand still wrapped around yours. "this isn't gonna change, so don't even think about it!"

satoru says his goodbyes and then ends the stream, turning to you with a sigh. "how down bad do you have to be to name yourself 'gojo's little slut?'" he grumbles, clicking through his stream analytics and finding the user. he opens gojoslittleslut's profile and studies it for a moment before hovering his mouse over the block button.

he leans back in his chair and tilting his chin up at you. "she just gave me a hundred dollars, so i kinda feel bad about blocking her," satoru muses, tapping his foot on the floor. he looks up at where you still sit on his desk, twirling a strand of hair around your finger. "c'mere," he mumbles, slipping his hands around your waist and hoisting you into his lap with a soft grunt.

satoru rests his chin on your shoulder and nudges his face into your neck, breath tickling your skin. "you know that i'm all yours, right?"

"of course i do," you murmur, settling into his arms. he's warm and comfortable, like always. satoru smiles warmly and kisses the side of your face, letting his lips linger.

"good. 'cause no fan account's ever gonna change that."

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