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mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker · 5 years

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Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #20-23 Thoughts

Previous thoughts here.

Well I’m almost a year late but I’m finally here, the end of Renew Your Vows.

So did it go out on a high note.

...um...no....no it did not.

Having finally read the entirety of Houser’s RYV run (but not yet her Spider-Girls work which I am expecting to be a kind of epilogue) there are three perennial problems.

a) The discarding of the established, yet short live, status quo of issue #1-12

b) The post-time skip status quo evoking memories and idea from Spider-Girl due to featuring Spider-Man’s teenaged daughter

c) An over focus upon Annie herself at the expense of Peter and MJ

I’m of the belief that the first point wasn’t Houser’s fault, that the second point was partially Houser’s fault and the final point is entirely Houser’s fault and indeed exacerbates the problem of the second point.

This arc could’ve course corrected some of those issues but it didn’t, indeed it added to them and created yet more problems.

Now this isn’t to say issues #20-23 were a shit show. Dan Slott and BND provided too many shit shows for me to have the heart of lumping this arc with that dreck.

But it is a story arc that doesn’t work much more than it does work.

Let’s talk positives though.

Houser continues to write Peter and MJ in character and believably for an adult couple with a kid. Peter having his share of Dad jokes is very nice in fact. The scene where MJ and Peter discuss the situation in bed was simply wonderfully executed, short, sweet and simple as it was. It was an example of how you can write these characters with maturity in a mature relationship whilst making it interesting. A small but very nice bit was when the couple exchange a knowing look of suspicion for a second before swinging off, you could tell they both knew their daughter was lying to them.

Annie is also believable as a teenager and distinguished in her personality from Mayday. Her exchange with her parents at the start of the arc rang very true. In it Peter and MJ are believably concerned for Annie and want to know what she was doing; if you lived in a world of super heroes you’d be suspicious in that context too. Annie also understandably for a teen gets pissed off. Another nice touch in connection to this was how there were consequences for Annie after her last arc, seeing as she is very much grounded but also in more contact with Normie than she was before.

However the two biggest triumphs for this arc were in how it brought up Clone Saga continuity.

I know a lot of people have Clone Saga sore spots, but this issue addressed the topic in way that bypassed even haters of the story.

Peter and MJ’s pain and anger over losing Ben and baby May is palpable and poignant, entirely earned by the situation. More than this it’s just a wonderful source for drama Houser was brave enough to mine when nobody else wanted to touch the topic for something like 20 odd years more or less. The graveyard scene especially is easily the highlight of the arc.

Peter and Wolverine’s exchange at the diner was also done very well. Wolverine’s advise struck true to who he is and their dynamic here is immensely preferable to Houser’s first issue where Peter was played as something of a beta to Logan. In this series they are both seasoned heroes and fathers with a long history so them talking candidly and personally as they did added up. Peter over dramatically breaking a glass and being indifferent to the shards cutting his hand open though...that was just stupid.

Also for what they were the action scenes were decent enough, the first battle between Annie and her ‘clone’ in particular was well done.

That...unfortunately...is where the positives end though.

The single biggest problems with this arc specifically are that it’s overly focussed upon Annie and features Mister Sinister as the villain.

Now you might argue that there is precedence for this in Houser’s earlier work.

However precedence alone is not necessarily justification.

Clearly building up Mister Sinister as the final boss does little in the way of justifying why, in the final arc of this series about Spider-Man and his family our final villain is...an X-Men character...who’s motivations indeed revolve around the X-Men. The X-Men taking up page time from the Parker family has been a running issue in this series and I don’t get why, of all things, the post-time skip RYV stories chose that to be consistent about.

Sinister isn’t even an X-Men villain who’s immediately familiar with general audiences. He’s a complicated and somewhat cryptic character whom, if memory serves, has never (or at least rarely) crossed paths with Spider-Man in any continuity. He’s not like Magneto or anything so throwing him into this series, then not really explaining what his powers even are or much of his background is taking the audience for granted. It’s expecting the audience of a Spider-Man comic to have X-Men knowledge (not even simple X-Men knowledge at that) or worse that they should go do their own homework t find out who he is, which is just objectively bad writing.

It just feels like what we’ve been building to for 10+ issues was essentially an X-Men story that happens to involve the Parker family and Normie Osborn. At least the final pre-time skip arc involved the X-Men in a secondary role to the Parker family, it still revolved around them.

The second biggest problem with this arc is with Annie.

Annie and her relationship with her parents doesn’t really grow or develop much in this arc. Now that could be forgiven because she got a fair bit of development in the last arc. But maybe giving her that development was a mistake as her development in this story, the final outing for the series as a whole amounts to her coming clean about her Spider Sense visions.

That’d be minor development at best, but what makes this worse is...Annie already told her parents about those.

Now maybe I missed something because I took such big breaks between arcs, but Annie told her parents of her visions back in issue #5!

So it’s just a massive continuity flub for Annie to be acting like she’s been keeping it a secret for eight years.

It wouldn’t be so bad if it was a throwaway line but her concealment of this fact is the crux of her arc in this story and of her relationship with her parents, playing into the resolution of the story and even the very last page.

It just breaks the narrative.

Now in fairness if you ignored every story before Houser’s run, Houser does a good job of realistically justifying how and why Annie kept it a secret and her reveal of it is humerous. But nevertheless...it doesn’t make any sense.

It doesn’t help that between Spidey’s teenage daughter have spider sense future visions and the plot revolving around a possible clone of said teenage daughter created in secret Osborn labs and her wearing a mostly blue outfit this arc is seriously evoking Mayday Parker’s adventures.

Possibly this was intentional as we find up subverting the expectation of clones when we learn that in fact the ‘clones’ are just...genetically engineered beings grafted powers from Annie’s stolen DNA.

Whilst this provides something different it’s also in truth kind of...less dramatic than if they had in fact been clones. That way you could’ve even shallowly touched upon themes of identity and said something about who the Parker family is. Instead they’re about as poignant as Blood Spider.

The arc is further hurt by not really properly explaining how or why Annie was able to see the future/see through the eyes of the mutates with her powers. In fact it tries to claim that this only happens when her ‘clone’ is focussed upon her and yet the first vision she has is when her ‘clone’ attacks some tourists. How/why was she focussed upon Annie in that moment?

The arc’s final major failing is, as I mentioned, with focussing upon Annie at the expense of her parents.

I thought given how Houser’s opening arc was more evenly divided between thee leads and then we got an Annie centric arc and then a Peter/MJ centric issue that we’d wrap up with another arc given over to all of them. But it’s still more Annie’s show than anyone else’s.

Yes we get some inner thoughts from MJ in two issues and a bit more than that from Peter. But it’s mostly there to spice up the scenes they occur in. They offer little insight into the thoughts and feelings of the elder Parkers and they are totally drowned out in comparison to Annie’s inner thoughts.

This is sad because the book isn’t supposed to be about Annie but the family as a whole.

But Houser’s approach in this arc tries to strike this weird arrangement wherein the scheme at play is about the X-Men, but the plot is focussed upon Annie’s side role within that plot, but also tries to give time over to Peter and MJ as severely beta leads to Annie.

And it consequently renders the arc as neither an X-Men story, nor a Parker family story and a weaksauce Annie story.

It’s like this arc is ‘Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead’ but if Rosencrantz got much more focus than Guildenstern....but then their story is a fleshed out side story in like Macbeth instead of Hamlet so they’ve got little reason to actually be involved in the central conflict but are anyway.

It’s such a weird creative choice.

Now I’ll still go to bat for Houser, and still argue she should do more Spider-Man work. Her problems on this book nevertheless show me she gets these characters. But I think now the series is wrapped up it’s fair to say she got the premise of Renew Your Vows but let her preference to write for Annie (the character who’s been around for less than 5 years and who as a teen is practically a blank slate) compromise the job she was assigned to do. Because as I said, it’s not like it’s just this arc. Annie got a lot of focus in every issue under Houser sans issue #19.

Other smaller problems with the arc include:

- Annie’s dream might’ve been a something of a rip-off of ‘Fearful Symmetry’, an early episode of ‘Justice League Unlimited’ in which Supergirl witnesses the actions of her murderous clone during her dreams.

- It’s made seriously unclear what Annie’s ‘clone’ did t the tourists she attacked or indeed why she attacked them at all

- Annie’s ‘clone’ has an okay design but it becomes rather banal when you see it repeated with the other Parker ‘clones’

- The names for the ‘clones’ are rather over complicated and dull. They do make a nice joke or two out of this though

- There was little point in having Normie grow six arms beyond cheap tension and a dash of fanservice

- The climax had some nice jokes about how Peter hated their family car, but it seemed out of place in context and also I find it hard to believe Peter would go quite as far as he did in wrecking the thing

- The final moments of the arc and series as a whole feel very pat and uninspired. Like Houser had to wrap it up for the sake of wrapping it up because they needed to move onto the next thing

- The art was a bit sketchy and felt unfinished

My kneejerk reaction was to give this a C- but looking back I gave the last major arc that too and that was definitely better than this.

So I guess...D+I hate sending this series off with that grade but it is what it is.

Hopefully Spider-Girls will be an improvement

P.S. I also just remembered Wolverine referenced Hank McCoy but...didn’t he die back in like issue #6 or 7? wtf

#RYV Thoughts #annie may parker #Annie-may parker #spiderling #Spider-Man #Peter Parker #spinneret #mjwatsonedit #MJ Watson #mary jane watson #Mary Jane Watson Parker #X-Men #Clone Saga #wolverine #jody houser #Mister Sinister

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maydayparkers · 4 years

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Wait a sec, here's a thought. May and April are the oldest, Benjy is the baby and how about Annie from Renew Your Vows be the middle child?

I’ve actually talked abt this with @bi-webhead before and I think the dynamic would be very fun

The thought of Annie being the most temperamental of the bunch AND the middle child is VERY amusing to me

Also the whole “Mayday is the only one of the kids with the ability to calm the hell down”

#personally I don’t think Peter and MJ would have another kid after the twins until Benjy bc that’s just so many #but then again when have their kids been planned #it’s a fun thought tho #considering there very much was a May in the RYV universe #asks

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kingdom-dance · 3 years

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So uh play @ophiuchus-interactive ‘s game demo and be an outlaw because…well…

Dont u wanna be a cowboy,babey?

And also -Will Smith’s Wild Wild West plays in the background- here have an absolute bastard

Ryver Adelaide Barrett (”Ryv”, “Ryvee” by Yoshie)

Age: mid-20s

Height: 5’2” (and 1/2)

Sans expletives, she can be described as “a handful”. She’s without shame and gonna make it everyone else’s problem. Main romance(s) will be the Good Doctor and the Captain.

Picrew

Ryv is largely nonplussed by everything around her and is quick to happily say just whatever the fuck she wants. She’s good at figuring out what makes people tick and will use that to her advantage. Typically though she just uses it to con people and cheat at card games. Her moral code is difficult to decipher for anyone but her, but it seems to sit somewhere in the gray, with few exceptions. She doesn’t feel the need to justify it- nobody on the other side of the law would bother to listen, as she’s learned the hard way.

For someone who prides herself on being generally unbothered, her temper can flare rather violently and quickly (and snuff out just as fast), and it seems giving her a taste of her own medicine-needling her until it hits the mark- goes about as well as you would imagine. Ryver feels things deeply,painfully,and while she’ll laugh in your face if you tell her she has a heart of gold, she does have a heart, and it sometimes will end up on her sleeve at the worst possible times.

Her freedom is highly important to her-that is, freedom of thought, and movement, and threats to that are addressed with extreme prejudice. This is in direct contrast to her deep sense of loyalty to those she has allowed into her circle- betraying someone’s trust or turning your back on someone you claim to care about is unforgivable in her eyes. Ryver is a street kid through and through, has fought and clawed her way to get out of the gutter, and is proud of that fact. Because of this, she has a soft spot for an underdog and is fiercely protective of those who are most vulnerable in society- namely children,strays,and other outcasts and riffraff like herself.

Playlist// Mammas Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Assholes

Trivia~

• Loves learning things for no reason. If it’s useless knowledge she’s got it memorized. Would have killed it if she had traditional formal education.

• A few years ago when she and Yoshie were in pretty dire straits,she cut and sold her hair. It was down past her waist and her favorite thing about herself. Now she won’t cut it except for trims. She takes exceptional care if it and a lot of her money goes into higher end hair tonics/washes and other products. The one she uses most is this oil that smells like fresh linens and florals (jasmine and peony).

• Her favorite food is cornmeal pancakes (or the space equivalent? lol) with fruit. She can and will make them and eat them for every meal if left to her own devices. Favorite drink is any kind of dry red wine.

• Uses nicknames and pet names (honey, baby, sugar, darling, angel) pretty much exclusively with everyone. Most are used teasingly, some affectionately, and yes we can go from -insert pet name here- (derogatory) to -insert pet name here- (affectionate)…but if she uses someone’s real name is typically serious or she really really likes them 👀

• Has a pair of signature wire rimmed circle framed sunglasses with a dark red lens she wears when out. (Something like this )

• Broke her nose as a kid, has a slight bump on the bridge from it. She’s a little self conscious about it still, but you’d never guess.

#It’s been awhile since I’ve made a bastard-aligned mc but here we are #slippery as an eel and scrappy as hell #I absolutely did not mean to name her after a character from Firefly but here we are and it was totally a subconscious thing #shoulda made her last name ‘Washburn’ and made myself cry :#IF #In The Ocean of Stars #IF WIPs #ITOOS MC #Ryver Barrett #long post #sorry I don’t trust mobile to do a read more that doesn’t fuck it up #yes another short MC but this one is an absolute shithead! also one of my tallest!#new IF demo drops #nobody :#me: time to write up a lengthy profile for this person I just made up in my dumb little head!! :)))

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sparrowwritings · 3 years

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Day Five: Sustainability

Day Four -- Masterpost -- Day Six

This happens years after Genius

Rennis Gatlin didn't notice the tapping at his workshop door until it went from a staccato knock to sounding like the rhythm of a popular song. He grumbled and ran his remaining hand through his hair as he made his way to see who was interrupting him. "I'm busy, go away," he called out before he'd even seen the culprit.

Swinging open the door revealed none other than his best friend, Ryvren Browman, who gave a yelp and stepped back even though the angle went inside instead of out. Rennis felt a pang of regret, but he was too tired to make a face about it. "Oh uh, hey Ren. I was..." The human's eyes darted down to the pinned up sleeve of where his left arm used to be before going back up to meet his eyes. "...in the area. Figured I'd visit. Sorry to bother you, but do you think you can pause what you're doing and talk?"

Clearly he was here for more than just a visit. Everyone who had come by to see Ren lately had been there to either offer condolences or show some level of pity. Useless words and empty gestures, for the most part. He needed to be useful again, not talked to like a fucking child.

Ryv though...sure he was awkward about the situation but he still talked to Ren as if things were some level of normal. And not like the goblin was all of a sudden made of glass or even cursed after nearly dying to Giotto. All things considered, the relationship between the two of them could be miles worse than it actually was. With a deep sigh, he turned away but left the door open wide enough for Ryvren to come inside. “Sure. Since yer here an’ all,” he answered.

The workshop was more or less the same level of apparent disorganization that it always was. Parts were scattered around in a manner that usually made sense to Rennis, though right now there was even less care to where his tools and such were being placed. Some metal plates surrounded by tangles of wires took center stage on the biggest of his work benches. A few of the plates seemed to be connected by a series of uneven and misaligned rivets. Ink and oil stained papers were held down by the more twisted or broken pieces. As if to add the cherry on top of this disaster sundae, the cot that had been set up to remind Ren to sleep occasionally was covered in dust.

He sat himself back on the stool he was on before there had been a knock on his door and lifted his arm up and wide to take in the workshop. “Well, let’s hear it. Some new threat comin’ up an’ yer gonna go fight it?”

Instead of finding a place in all the mess to sit, Ryvren continued to stand. “Uh, not this time at least. I’m more here for...this whole thing here.” He gestured vaguely in Ren’s direction.

Immediately, the goblin gripped at the table. He didn’t feel as secure as he really wanted to be. “What d’ya mean.”

“Look, I don’t want to be the one to do this but you’re also shutting everyone else out so it’s gotta be me.” Without warning, Ryv picked up his best friend and walked him over to the cot.

“TH’ FUCK’RE YOU DOIN’, PUT ME DOWN!”

“Okay.” As ordered, Ryvren dropped Ren onto the cover. Dust rose up in a cloud around the both of them, and the goblin was too busy coughing to try to stop the human from wrapping him up in a warm, clean blanket. “You haven’t slept in like four days. If you had a project I could deal with that, but you don’t because you don’t have an arm so drastic times call for drastic measures. You can’t keep this up without hurting yourself.”

“Gonna fuckin’--Bailey put you up ta this didn’t she? She told ya I was weak an’ made you come over here.” Rennis tried to unravel himself from his soft trap.

“She did talk to me,” Ryvren admitted. He was actively putting the blanket back onto his best friend before he could fully escape. “But I was the one who decided to come over here. No one had to convince me of anything because I knew you were pushing yourself too hard.” After about the fourth time of Ren almost fully escaping the blanket, the human sighed and pulled him into a bear hug. “You’re having nightmares, aren’t you?”

Rennis froze in place before getting back to struggling. “Why should I tell you? You’re doin’ just like all th’ others are! You think I’m weak!”

“Even Hass? Really?” Ryv’s voice dripped with sarcasm.

That got Ren to calm down, a little. “Well...no…”

“Or Bailey? Or Vel? Or Wen? Would any of them really kick you while you’re this down?”

“N-no, but…”

“Look, you’re exhausted and you’re getting paranoid because of it. Get some shut eye so that you can actually think about what you need to do.”

Ren was quiet for a long moment. “...what’m I gonna do about th’ nightmares, tho?”

“I’m gonna beat them up for you.” Ryvren said matter-of-factly.

That was the funniest shit Ren had ever heard of. He couldn’t help the snort that came from him. “All th’ nightmares.”

“Yeah, duh.”

“An’ how’re ya gonna do that?”

Ryv had an immediate answer. “You just let me worry about that. You worry about actually sleeping.”

The most annoying part of that statement was that Rennis was already nodding off. The combination of the blanket and the familiarity of Ryvren’s voice was comforting enough that his eyes were having a hard time staying open. “Can’t...always be here ta beat’m up all th’ time. Ya got more important shit ta do.”

“Well you can’t always stay awake all night trying to avoid them. Plus…” Here, Ryv patted Ren on the top of his head. “There’s nothing more important than being here for my best friend. So that’s what I’m gonna do.”

The last thing Rennis thought of before drifting off into unconsciousness was that once he found a way to get a new arm, he was going to do something to pay back the kindness he was being shown.

Maybe he could steal some ideas off of some gnomes...

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hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger · 4 years

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Spider-Verse v3 #3 Thoughts

I honestly have so little to say I won’t bother with a cut below.

I know precious little about Peni Parker or SP//dr. I have never read any of their solo outings before. Aside from their inclusion in ITSV I picked up everything else via osmosis. They were created by a member of a band I believe and they are inspired by mech anime.

That’s all I know.

As such I’m not that well suited to discuss this story.

The art was really nice and seeing reimaginings of Daredevil and Kraven were kind of cool.

Mr. Sinister being the main villain was kind of lame (as was the case in RYV) because he’s an X-Men villain not a Spidey one.

That’s all I can say really.

And in a sense that’s this story’s biggest fault.

As Stan Lee himself said, every comic is someone’s first. The story took my familiarity for granted and as such I was lost. This is just bad in general but it’s an especially foolish storytelling choice considering the nature of this comic book.

This mini-series obviously exists to capitalize upon ITSV. Surely then you’d want to present the characters from the movie in an accessible way, a way that won’t alienate newer readers?

I can’t recommend this. Not because it’s bad but because I do not know enough about this version of Spidey to say how much merit the story has.

#Spider-Verse #Miles Morales #Peni Parker #SP//dr #Kraven the Hunter #Mister Sinister #Daredevil #X-Men

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dragonauthor · 4 years

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to Ryvana: what were your first thoughts when you met Syra? -wreckageofus

Ryvana: I was surprised. We don’t get that many newcomers at the Mountain, since we’re well off the beaten path.

ryv was also surprised because it was her first “holy fuck she’s pretty” crush-at-first-sight moment. no one’s judging you ryv. u were a 17 y/o lesbian w no girls your age in your whole village.

#mgm #answered #wip: fas

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fyeah-anya-corazon · 6 years

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So earlier I said I had thoughts on Spider-Girls... though, most of it came from this particular panel from Spider-Geddon #2.

Overall thoughts on the comic itself: it's good. It's a mostly Annie focused story, which was to be expected since this is from the same writer of RYV, Jody Houser. Had RYV sold better, I imagine this would have been a direct tie-in than a mini. If you like Mayday and RYV then you should check this out.

So, not going into spoiler territory here, but the introduction of Anya and May in SG is so odd. It really felt that I missed something before they arrived to Annie's earth. So I read Spider-Geddon #2 and... yeah, we got nothing. It even raises further questions!

What's worse is the particular panel from above... they really are pretending that Anya was never part -let alone co-found and was second in command- of the Web Warriors. I get that this a exposition dialogue and that's why it sounds so impersonal -I cropped Miles' dialogue which talks in the same way about Peter and Jess- but holly hell, the more Spider-Geddon continues, the more I want a damn good explanation about why Anya wasn't part of the main team through the first issues, which are the ones that get more publicity.

As for Anya's role in Spider-Girls... it's good, but since this particular issue is Parker-centric, she's just there to give exposition and feel for May. The following issues should be the "magical journey" they were teasing, so maybe she'll have a more emotional role into this, because in this issue she just feels out of place. Summed up by this panel:

What I feel this issue failed is to give a lasting impression on Anya. Let's say I'm a new reader and this is one of my first comics. This is my introduction to Anya. Ok, so "mystical spiders and... stuff". Gee, does that sounds exciting. They can still give a better impression on Anya in later issues. I still remember how Spider-Verse did it by keeping Anya to the sideline only to bring her in a brilliant plot twist that put emphasis on her origin, making it and her look interesting to new readers' eyes.

Anyway, looking forward to later issues.

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kazephantom · 7 years

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Marvel Legacy thoughts

https://www.newsarama.com/35143-marvel-legacy-will-leave-no-franchise-untouched-promises-classic-characters.html

To me, what is interesting here is the titles, as they are the first clue to what storylines we can expect from Legacy going forward. So that is what I want to focus on, here are my thoughts and theories:

First off the Spider-Man books:

Amazing Spider-Man #789 “The Fall of Parker” and Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #297 “Most Wanted” I’m happy Amazing is moving back to it’s classic numbering like Action Comics and Detective Comics did in DC Rebirth. I mean, Amazing doing this is probably just to copy Action and Detective but, still counts. Now, Theory time, “The Fall of Parker” to me reads as one thing, the fall of Parker Industries. This, with Spectacular’s “Most Wanted” title and the plot point in the Amazing tie-in to Secret Empire with how the Darkhold originated out of a Parker Industries building (wasn’t it shown in the Secret Empire book to originate from just offshore?) Makes me think that in Legacy, Peter Parker will be a fugitive, “Most Wanted,” and that he will loose his company “Fall of Parker.” I highly, highly doubt that Generations/Legacy will restore Peter and MJ’s relationship in the 616, married or not, because Quesada is still receiving a check from Marvel, but on that note.

Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #13 “Eight Years Later” I am so, so, so happy RYV is continuing into Legacy, because I honestly did not think that was a guarantee. When I looked up RYV’s sales numbers, I was surprised they weren’t much higher, and I feared Marvel would use that as an excuse to can the book asap. I think someone at Marvel must be fighting for this book, probably Conway himself, so there’s still hope. That being said, storyline theory. uh, the book jumps ahead eight years. I have two thoughts 1) I don’t know if this will be a permanent status quo change, if it’s just a temporary change for one issue or storyline, or (my money’s on) It’s Annie May’s daydream ‘what if’ scenario; and 2) I really hope it’s not a permanent change and Annie is a teenager now, since, I feel like that would be too derivative of Mayday. Let Annie be kid spider-daughter and Mayday be teenage spider-daughter, it makes them unique (and allows me to keep my headcanon that they are the same soul of 616 spider-child but split in have like Rebirth Supes and Nu52 Supes)

Avengers #672 “Worlds Collide Part 1″ and Champions #13 “Words Collide Part 2″ A Champions/Avengers crossover. Good. Was wondering how long they’d put that off. I’m really curious how the Champions will be different in Legacy and post-Secret Empire, since Legacy does seem to be getting rid of some of the older Marvel legacy/‘diversity’ heroes (We’ll get to that); and in Secret Empire, a bunch of the main members of the Champions agree to undergo Black Widow’s training to kill Steve Rogers, despite the fact that that flies in the face of the Champion’s mission statement of heroes being heroes. So curious how they hell they reckon that. I’m also curious who will be on what team, and if there even will be any characters who share a mentor/mentee relationship in this, or if it’ll just be ‘group of random adult heroes disagrees with group of random teen heroes.’

Iceman #6 “Champions Reassembled” I’m honestly just curious about this one to see if/how/when the old Champion team meets the completely unrelated new one.

now, *cracks knuckles*

Falcon #1 “Take Flight” The Mighty Thor #700 “The Death of the Mighty Thor” Hey remember how Marvel Legacy was going to respect Classic Heroes without putting their ‘diversity’ counterparts in a fridge on a bus and off a cliff? Sam Wilson’s tenure as Captain America sure was fucking short wasn’t it? Oh, guess Jane Foster dies to cancer, congrats Menanists, finally this interesting reinvention of a long forgotten female character knows her place, now maybe men can finally be equal to women, huh? Sam Cap and Lady Thor were the poster heroes for the ‘diversity push’ and now they are two of the Legacy heroes whose fates aren’t guaranteed in Legacy imprint? In fact, I’d say of the new generation of Marvel Legacy heroes, the only two whose fates aren’t up in the air are Miles Morales Spider-Man and Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel.

*sigh* So. Basically. Business as usual at Marvel, as Marvel learns the wrong lesson from DC Rebirth. It’s not about nostalgia, it’s about telling good stories that respect the spirit, continuity, and characters of what’s come before.

#Marvel #Marvel Legacy #DC Rebirth #Captain America #Spider-Man #Ms. Marvel #Peter Parker #Miles Morales #Kamala Khan #Sam Wilson #Lady Thor #Thor #Jane Foster #Steve Rogers

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mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker · 5 years

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Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #19 Thoughts

Previous thoughts here.

Possibly the best issue of RYV!

The only possible exception would be issue #5. The latter embodies the core concept of the book the best, but this issue is perhaps the issue best laser targeted for the primary audience of the book. Peter/MJ shippers.

I’m wondering if Houser even did this story with a total awareness of that fact, hence she literally set the story on a ship!

I think if you were ever still on the fence that Houser gets the characters, this issue should ultimately sway you.

With the last arc Annie, in her new status quo as a teen, was something of a blank slate Houser could mould as she desired.

And whilst there are challenges to that it also allows for a lot of leeway and freedom

This issue presented a different challenge for Houser because she has to make characters with decades of development that define who they are ring true. And whilst you’d think this would be easy because there is a road map for you to follow, the various shitty takes on both Peter and MJ over the last decade prove that that is not true.

Houser seemed to have a good grip on both characters in her opening arc of course but those issues were burdened by defining the new status quo and Annie within it from Peter and MJ’s eyes, whilst also being about Annie as one of the tritagonists.

This issue is about Peter and MJ together with Annie very much in the background so this was more the issue for Houser to demonstrate her take upon the characters.

And by God she passed with flying characters.

NOTHING in this rang untrue to who Peter and MJ are, to the point where if you tweaked the story it could’ve happened at any point during the marriage or even now.

What I also appreciated is that, again using the politically incorrect term here, but Peter wasn’t played as something of a Beta the way he was in the prior arc.

He and MJ are very much equals here but the moments wherein MJ is more assertive are simply true to how she’d act in that situation. For example where she tells Peter to let his anger go at the rich couple on the ship but rage quits herself at them later. THAT’S MJ! Even the ending when Peter is singing her praises are totally in character and she returns the compliment to him too. And what those compliments are, again, strikes so true to who these guys are. Peter finds social stuff harder than MJ, MJ finds it hard to but uses a mask to deal with it, and both are enamoured with another.

Going along with the equality between the characters, is that we get the same insight into their heads and again everything rings true. MJ is practical in her decisions and prioritizes the need for down time whilst Peter is sarcastic about their problems and financial straits.

And by the way that montage at the start leading into their vacation was great, it contained a healthy mix of super hero problems (green four armed Venom apparently), domestic troubles (MJ’s work) and something in between (super powered kid breaking the sink). I’ve said it before but THAT is what Spider-Man should be and what this series has consistently done well. Another fine example would be the funny scene where they wear spandex in a sauna. That’s classic Parker Luck! As is having to rescue the people who derided them in costume and looked down on them for their money situation out of costume.

Something else really worthy of praise is that Houser nails the conversations between Peter and MJ. She strikes a good balance between making the scenes dramatic but down to Earth. They aren’t dwelling on melodramatic soap opera troubles like this was the Silver Age but it is nevertheless endearing, and it’s something she’s been nailed since her run began.

The super powered plot wasn’t exactly impressive, but it also isn’t really the point of this specific story. This is an aside story, the super power stuff is used to reinforce the normal life stuff that is the point for this story, to be a microcosm of Peter and MJ’s marriage in this universe in a sense. In that sense the resolution being fairly simple doesn’t bother me like it did in the last arc.

One final point of praise, Koblish’s art gave me the vibe that he was making the characters...a little sexier than normal. Which adds up, this is a pseudo Honeymoon for them and they are the main leads here, not Annie, so you can skew a bit more adult.

Now there are some flaws with this.

· I somewhat question leaving Annie with the X-Men. Lets put aside how X-Men history is chock full of their mansion being wrecked. Mutants are a massive target for violence and bigotry and always have been and the X-Men are the most famous mutants ever. Heck the X-Men arc had their home invaded and several of their members murdered. Is it really realistic that Peter and MJ would leave their 8 year old there? I mean...I guess yes considering they already risk her life as a superhero anyway.

· Scott Koblish is an...improvement(???) over Stockman and Roche....maybe. To be honest his character models are good but the line work seems unrefined and kind of...fuzzy...which is true for Roche and Stockman to be honest. Gone are the days of Stegman nailing things.

· As much sense as it makes to do a Peter/MJ focus story after we got an Annie focus arc last time, making it a flashback to the status quo fans initially liked and that we moved away from just 6 issues ago makes the decision to time skip at all rather redundant. It hurts the optics of choosing to do the time skip if you see what I mean...the fact that this is maybe the best issue yet (and definitely Houser’s best issue) doesn’t help.

Over all this was a wonderful issue and the best Spider-Marriage/PeterxMJ shipper story to happen since OMD!

A- !!!!!!!

#RYV Thoughts #Scott Koblish #Jody Houser #Spiderling #Spinneret #MJ Watson #mjwatsonedit #mary jane watson #Mary jane watson Parker #anna-May Parker #Sub-Mariner #namor the sub mariner #prince namor

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mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker · 5 years

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Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #16-18 Thoughts

Previous thoughts here.

This arc is a mixed bag.

Previous arcs of RYV tended to give one of the family members more priority than the others. It wasn’t exactly that we’d have an MJ arc then a Peter arc then an Annie arc exactly, but which characters got more focus did shift around. The Venom arc for example was more MJ’s story with Peter playing support and Annie more in the background. The X-Men arc was more Annie’s arc with her parents splitting the second fiddle role. The penultimate arc before the time skip was another more Annie centric storyline, actually probably the most Annie centric story since issue #3.

Houser’s opening arc put the spotlight on each family member culminating in Annie herself, but Annie was still being developed through Peter and MJ’s eyes in those issues. This made a lot of sense since she’d be the most important thing to either of them and we already know who Peter and MJ are. Even if they’re 8 years older that’s not going to amount to them being as significantly different as the now teenaged Annie whom we’d not yet met.

This arc is another Annie centric arc which initially seems like Peter is going to be an important backup player, sort of like how the Venom arc was MJ’s arc first and foremost but Peter still played an important role. This was indicated by us getting Peter and Annie’s thought captions in issue #16 and the story revolving around Peter working at Annie’s school.

Issue #17 drops Peter’s captions and point of view and the story becomes Annie’s totally now revolving around her two new friends abruptly introduced at the end of issue #16. Peter however had three poignant scenes in the book implying that going forward he would be an important character to the pay off the arc. This did not happen because issue #18 thrusts forward with the story about Annie and her new friends, now with Normie as an important player. Peter shows up but only as part of the ‘parental collective’ alongside MJ and gets just one scene with just him and Annie at the end of the book, which serves to simply reiterate the sentiments from the earlier scene with MJ and to payoff that Annie and him are more at ease about both being at Midtown High.

Now there are two ways of interpreting all this.

The optimistic and diplomatic way is that the arc is about Annie growing more independent via forming a new friendship group. Issue #16 nicely sets up that Annie, like many teenagers, is trying to find where she belongs in the high school jungle as she and her old friends have drifted apart as unfortunately happens as kids grow older. Her Dad’s continuously diminishing role across the issues as her relationships with her new friends (and old friend Normie, whom she reconnects with which is maybe pay off to what I just talked about) grows is symbolic of her becoming more independent as she grows up.

The more cynical view is that...this arc is just disjointed. That Houser wanted to set up the status quo of Peter at Midtown high and dedicated the first part of the arc to that but also had it half act as a transition into the meat of the arc, which is about Annie befriending Lacey and Reece...oh but Normie is also involved too.

Unfortunately I’m inclined to think the latter is more likely.

It almost feels like Houser was seeking to set up the general status quo for the family in her first arc running through issues #13-15, then was setting up Annie’s personal status quo with this arc.

Like imagine this was not a Spider-Man family title but a Spiderling title. You establish her school, her social situation, her Dad being a teacher, her older friend in Normie. The only thing you arguably don’t have set up here is her parents or the fact that they are superheroes but that’s because you’ve already read the previous issues. Heck issue #16 even has Annie swinging solo on the cover, almost like it could be the cover to a Spiderling solo book.

The focus upon Peter in issue #16 feels like I dunno...lip service to the fact that this supposed to be a team book and not an Annie solo book. Feeling exacerbated as his presence diminishes as the arc goes on. It wouldn’t be that bad perhaps if the arc supplanted his presence with MJ’s but that doesn’t happen. MJ is a slightly more distant third fiddle in this arc.

Now conceptually having an arc so focused upon Annie isn’t all bad. If you looked at Houser’s run and the post time-skip era in isolation, dedicating a focus arc to her and her status quo makes a lot of sense. However considering the arc just before the time skip gave her the lion’s share of panel time and she’s also had a lot of play in the X-Men arc and Conway’s opening arc AND how Houser’s opening arc dedicated a lot of time to developing Annie...you see where I’m going with this.

She’s stealing too much lime light from Peter and MJ at this point, even if this arc was hypothetically afforded them more panel time.

But how does this connect with those two points I raised up top?

Connected with this is the issues raised from the time skip itself.

When the time skip was announced the big criticisms surrounding it mainly revolved around:

a) The jump abandoned the status quo we’d been building for 12 issues b) Making Annie a teen is derivative of Spider-Girl/Mayday Parker

Jameson and the Bugle are used organically for what little they show up. Jonah also looks noticeably aged, although that does raise the question of why nobody else does.

Annie is well characetrized and believable as a teenager who is both unreasonable about the cringe factor of her Dad teaching at her school and well over her head in getting mixed up with Lacey and Reece. Her growth in the story is also done well as she has to become more akin to a parent and grows to accept her Dad’s place at her school. Fundamentally Annie is played as a nice balance between trying to be responsible but tripped up by youthful arrogance and deep need for independence. Does that remind you of anyone Spider-Man fans?

· Houser continues to play Peter Parker, out of touch Dad (complete with Dad jokes), believably

· MJ as the mediator between Peter and Annie also feels very believable for the characters

· The mugging scene was funny

· Houser throws shade at Slott’s shitty Peter Parker paparazzi arc

· Peter being a teacher again is lovely although it’s in a different field to what he was teaching in the JMS run. This is actually a good way of allowing something comfortingly familiar yet also unique for RYV, and is possibly set up for Houser to use going forward. Best of all it comes out of relatable financial problems that have been common to Spider-Man since day 1.

· Annie adopting a tech role in the school drama club is an eloquent way of having her find something that’s both a reference to her mother and father’s passions

· All of conversations between Peter and MJ and between Annie and her parents were done well...with one sort of exception but we will get there

· Bringing Normie back into the picture, for all the problems I discussed, is an eloquent way of reinstating him into the post time-skip status quo and his reconnection with Annie brings things full circle from Annie’s other friends drifting away

· The Normie flashbacks were adorable

I’ll get this out of the way...Mister Sinister. Let’s put aside how so far he’s done nothing in the book, his presence in a Spider title is just unwanted· Peter, even in issue #16 where he is more present, feels rather...undermined. I’m trying to figure out a more political correct way of saying this besides ‘Peter is kind of a Beta here’ but off the top of my head I just can’t. It just doesn’t feel right when Peter is played as immature as his teenage daughter to the point where he ignores a crime in progress and is insulted along with his daughter by MJ, or where Annie is angrily telling him off when he’s in costume in school and he passively just agrees with it. This was something knocking around a little bit in the previous arc when Logan was telling him off in issue #13 too and was sort of there a little bit under Conway. Its never been as bad as here though, but I guess it’s a nitpick at the end of the day. Heck the MJ comedy bit was very funny for what it was.· Stockman’s art isn’t bad and is pretty similar to Roche’s from the previous arc. But there is this unrefined quality to it. It’s not as good as his issue #5 art and of course such a major step down from Stegman. Also it dipped noticeably in issue #18· The kids turning out to be if not bad then on the dangerous side was incredibly predictable· The resolution was seriously not great. Reece having feelings for Lacey was not set up until the issue where it was going to become the key to resolving the plot, it should’ve been introduced earlier. In fact the entire Reece/Lacey plot shouldn’t have been brought up towards the end of issue #16 but played out throughout that issue. Similarly the end of the three issues randomly telling us that Lacey and Reece’s abilities had totally faded was trite and far too convenient. Throwing a line in earlier on, even the issue before, that the powers might be temporary would’ve alleviated things.· Peter and MJ’s confronting Annie in part 3 was a nice scene but the ending where they just pat themselves on the back and say ‘we did good’ felt rote and not really true. A sign the arc was kind of falling apart a bit towards the end.

Over all I’d give this arc a C-

#RYV thoughts #Nathan Stockman #Jody Houser #Spinneret #Spiderling #Anna-May Parker #mjwatsonedit #mary jane watson #Mary Jane Watson Parker #Peter Parker #Spider-Man #j. michael straczynski #Mayday Parker #Spider-Girl #Spider Woman #Normie Osborn

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mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker · 5 years

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Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #13-15 Thoughts

Previous thoughts here.

Yes I know I couldn’t be later to this party but I started this series so I’m going to finish giving my thoughts on it.

I tried very hard to finish Houser’s run on RYV in time to read Spider-Girls but it just didn’t happen, I only made it up until just before the penultimate arc and I didn’t write up a proper post of my thoughts back then. So I re-read her first arc today with ambitions of re-reading the next 2 stories before finally experiencing the final arc and then Spider-Girls as part of reading over most of Spider-Geddon. What you will read below are a mixture of some initial thoughts I jotted down during my first read through and my thoughts upon revisiting the story, mostly the latter.

Oh SPOILERS I guess

So let me immediately get some obvious business about Renew Your Vows’ direction from here on in. The book, sans its covers, desperately misses Stegman. It also misses Conway but that is not a condemnation of Houser at all.

Houser in this arc does a good job with the situation presented by the new direction. Whether that new direction was her idea or editorials is unknown, though likely the latter.

And really that is the absolute worst thing about this story, the new direction itself.

It isn’t so much that it is bad unto itself but it is reductive that after 12 issues building a certain status quo, the one also built by the RYV Secret Wars mini-series and was promoted by Marvel prior and during the book’s initial release that we are abruptly changing course in a big way.

The book is still unique, at least the Spider-Books on the stands (even now). But it is less unique for various reasons.

Firstly we simply have way more teen heroes than pre-teen ones. Secondly a book that pays much attention to Spider-Man’s super powered teen daughter is going to either tread upon familiar ground that Spider-Girl stood on or else it will evoke Spider-Girl in the memories of the readers. Annie unto herself innately did this anyway, but that was offset when she was much younger than Mayday.

It also throws away the world building and set up Conway enacted in his initial arc, not to mention it just fast forwards a lot of Annie’s potential character development.

Does this render Annie uninteresting or the premise less likable? No because Houser has a strong handle on both the characters and more specifically what RYV as a book is.

Perhaps this is nowhere more apparent in how she structures her opening arc. Each issue shifts the POV to one of the Parker family, starting with Peter, then handing off to MJ and concluding with Annie, exactly like Conway’s first three issues did. This is a pretty clever way of conveying to readers Houser ‘gets’ the book and reassure readers who might not be thrilled about the time skip that these are the same characters just at different points in their lives, and not even that different, sans Annie.

This is rather realistic because Peter and MJ being the adults are comparatively less likely to change all that much even within 8 years whereas Annie inevitably will drastically change going from a pre-teen to an out-and-out teenager. Fittingly Houser compensates for this by showcasing Annie’s new state of being throughout the issues that are about Peter and MJ.

On the one hand this does somewhat undermine the idea that this book is about the family collectively as opposed being about Annie or placing Annie as the ‘first among equals’ in the team dynamic of the book.

On the other hand since the book is about the Parker family it adds up that so much of Peter and MJ’s characterization will stem from their relation to Annie; your child is after all the most important thing in your life.

So we get Annie’s somewhat more salty and disconnected relationship with a Peter who is very much starting to feel his age. Which is GOOD, the obnoxious proliferation of teen Spider-Man renders almost any older portrayal interesting by default. With MJ though, Annie seems to have a much more conciliatory relationship, its more that she exhausts her mother and seems more comfortable going to her about stuff. Also as a nice way of distinguishing her from Mayday, Annie seems to share her mother’s passion for fashion which Mayday actively didn’t.

Speaking of fashion lets talk about Annie’s new costume. I’ll level you all..it looks better than her prior costume, but also less unique but neither is...all that great. I guess when you have Mayday Parker and Spider-Gwen and all the Spider-Women running around, coming up with something thing that fits the general Spider-Man motif, looks unique and also is really dynamic can be difficult. I can see where the designer was going though. Peter, MJ and Annie share the same outlines for where the chest areas of their suits turn into another colour. Peter’s is red and blue, MJ’s red and white and Annie’s is blue to black. So the ‘shape’ of the suit lends to the ‘unified family’ idea. The colours also make her stand out but maybe too much. If her parents had red chests and then she has blue it’s kinda weird. If the idea was she was trying to strike out on her own sure but I don’t get that impression at all. It is kinda cool she has MJ’s mask design but I preferred her old mask which was a compromise between her parents’ masks.

As for the main plot, I think Houser could’ve milked it much more than she did, we could’ve done with much more of the slice of life stuff and the Lizard was underutilized. There is a strong element of family defining the Lizard’s character because of his wife and child. In a book about family I presumed that was where we were going when he showed up. But...no he was just used as a monster amidst monsters.

I’m not saying Houser got the Lizard wrong just that there was an obvious and more compelling angle to exploited in the story.

The two big reveals surrounding the plot, that there is a zoo full of near-human people, and that it’s being run by Mister Sinister was also...underwhelming.

Spider-Man has the best supporting cast and rogue’s gallery within Marvel comics. Not only does this mean we don’t really need to see non-Spider-Man characters (like the X-Men) pop up, it’s frankly less interesting when we do because they have little-no history with Spider-Man or his family.

It was also just kind of a reveal that didn’t land for me, I could not care at all.

Mister Sinister was a little different because, I like Sinister as a bad guy I really do...but not in Spider-Man. I get including and referencing the X-Men in this arc because for some reason they were practically supporting cast members in Conway’s run, so paying that off makes sense. But why double down upon it with a major X-villain? Like the Jackal, even Doc Ock, either of them would be more fitting villains in this type of story or where the series implies it will be leading onto later.

It didn’t help that when we met Sinister initially in disguise there was just very little gravitas to him because he obviously looked like a no-name 18th century circus reject.

The ending let this arc down is what I guess I’m getting at. Issue #13 and #14 had pretty nice hooks for the next issues.

What was a letdown throughout though was the action sequences. They were pretty pedestrian along with the art overall. Like it wasn’t BAD per se (except Peter’s eyebrows...wtf?), it just was a major step down from Stegman and even Stockman, the latter of whom I think the artwork was chosen to be more like. It had this softer undefined element to it, and not in a Romita Senior way.

Returning to the character though, I do commend Houser for having a good grip on everyone and efficiently finding a way to distinguish them from one another across the three issues.

Peter dealing with being older and now decidedly less cool and engaging to his teen daughter is delightful..even if at points it feels like the narrative is kind of undermining him, especially in the Wolverine scene at the start of the story...still Dad Joke Spider-Man is awesome. Even more awesome is how together he over all is. This isn’t an angst ridden Peter Parker or one who is introspectively questioning himself. Throughout the story he gives off this air of relaxed experience, like he knows what he’s doing and can tell the situation allows for a few jokes and a bit of fun. Refrshingly he doesn’t angst about not pursuing the bad guy at all.

Moving on, Houser probably dissing MJ’s place in the Iron books at the time with her reprimanding and smack down of Tony was awesome (although I don’t get why she was so miffed at him). Her playing Spider-Mom, and more poignantly dejectedly owning it, was hilarious. Her sense of exhaustion is relatable whether you’ve been a parent or just been around them. It very much taps into Conway’s characterization of MJ as a juggler

Houser’s Annie also shines. She is believably an older version of the kid Annie we once knew but also stands firmly as her own person. She’s somewhat embarrassed by her Dad and wants greater independence. She loves being a superhero, but is (also in contrast to Mayday) a more of a punch first think later kind of gal with a dash of overconfidence.

She is untrustworthy of the Lizard and more gung ho, whilst MJ and especially Peter (to my delight) are both more reigned in and trusting.

This is nicely explored in the family’s single page descent underground where Houser gives Peter a really great speech about what it means for Annie to accept the great responsibility of the mask, that it might mean trusting those who are not trustworthy for the sake of others. This serves to nicely develop Annie as its her Dad treating her as more of an adult for the first time. the fact that it’s her Dad, the iconic hero Spider-Man conveying this wisedom onto her is very fitting and helps further legitimize Annie as a Spider-Hero to the readers of RYV and legitimize the new teen version to those jumping aboard at this point.

Not to be outdone, MJ an issue earlier got a wonderful piece of dialogue about how in spite of how their lives might be messed up by being heroes she and her family will still endeavour to make plans and live normal lives. Which is both a wonderfully inspiring heroic statement but also so very true to who she and Peter are as people.

Some other small points:

I saw Carrion amidst Sinister’s menagerie

The underground nature of the story’s conclusion nicely evokes the first arc by Conway

Overall Houser sells/sold you on the new dynamic with this arc as much as I preferred the older one and wish they hadn’t changed.

B+

#RYV Thoughts #Jody Houser #Nick Roche #Annie May Parker #Spiderling #spinneret #renew your vows #Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #mary jane watson #Mary jane watson Parker #MJ Watson #mjwatsonedit #Spider-Man #Peter Parker

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mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker · 6 years

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Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows Vol 2 #8-9 Thoughts

Previous thoughts here.

With the Venom movie having been released recently I felt this was the time to catch up with the Venom arc of Renew Your Vows.

I’ll not lie to you all, exempting the hype surrounding the announcement for the series no arc of Renew Your Vows had me more excited to read it than this one. I knew how it was broadly going to play out, even without being mildly spoiled, because of course the broad idea behind the story is the way every instance of the Venom symbiote bonding to people tends to play out.

But therein is why I was looking forward to it.

I.Love. VENOM!

Of course I do. As I mentioned in my post about the X-Men arc, I am a child of the 1990s and if you were a kid in the 1990s getting into Spider-Man then the chances were you loved Venom.

This is owed in no small part to the 3 part Alien Costume story arc from the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon which was for most people of my generation their introduction to the character and to Spider-Man as a whole.

It was in this cartoon that the very idea of the Venom symbiote acting as a corrupting force and a drug was first institutionalized and it has had an influence on absolutely every rendition of the character ever since, including in the original comics.

This idea, that this costume can change a character, make them evil, darker and more dangerous whilst accompanies with a cool black makeover for them, is critical to the appeal of Venom as a whole. It is why in fan art, fan fiction, adaptations and stories people love to attach the symbiotes to other characters.

Doing an arc featuring Venom in RYV was just the single most natural and perfect idea made even more natural by having MJ act as the host.

Whilst neither Venom nor the Spider-Marriage debuted in the decade, both were in significant ways shaped and promoted at their heaviest during the 1990s and RYV being a book clearly riffing on that decade (as it did in the prior arc) made Venom a welcome character to tackle. But it goes further than that. Venom has an important history and thematic connection to the Spider Marriage.

His co-creator David Michelinie truly began his long run on ASM (and thus became the chief architect of how Spider Marriage’s early years) in ASM #298-300, the arc introducing Venom where he infamously terrorized Mary Jane. So frightened was MJ of the visage of Venom that she asked peter to abandon his black costume permanently.

The Venom symbiote’s relationships with it’s hosts have also over the years been played as metaphorically romantic, with the second Venom story even floating the idea that it’s hatred of Spidey for rejecting it was rooted in something similar to love. Making the Venom symbiote symbolic of Spidey’s ‘scorned lover’ and thus the idea of it returning to haunt him in a series about his family and bonding with his wife utterly juicy.

And of course Venom was critical in the first volume of Renew Your Vows where Spider-Man seemingly killed Brock and the symbiote to save his family.

All this and it was IIRC the FIRST time that Gerry Conway was ever going to write for Venom.

So with all this in mind I was HYPED for this arc and remained HYPED for it long after it came out and I drifted off from reading comics in general.

Then of course we all learned that this arc was the main reason for why Conway left the RYV series, why Stegman had to handle some of the scripting duties and likely why we wound up with Houser and the controversial time skip.

And it was all because Marvel’s promotional department saw the sales of a MJ as Venom variant.

I am not making that up.

Basically this arc has a lot of baggage for me and for fans in general.

With all that said how did I feel about it when all was said and done.

Basically more could’ve been done with it but what we did get was pretty much solid!

In a way it’s a testament to sometimes the promotional department having good ideas. Sometimes. I also gotta give it up to Stegman. He stepped in for some of the scripting duties and really didn’t do a bad job at all.

Lets get the negatives out of the way.

· The story brings up Peter killing Eddie Brock but doesn’t really address it or explore it.

· As I said more could’ve been done with this.

· Annie barely appears and doesn’t significantly contribute to the story.

· The symbiote’s corruption of MJ isn’t the way the symbiote’s influence usually works in the comics or adaptations.

· Peter not cluing in immediately upon seeing MJ in costume that she’s bonded to Venom is questionable.

· So is Liz Allan not realizing Spinneret is MJ.

· So is MJ just immediately seeking out Liz to get new powers and wearing the ‘bio-suit’ without even talking to Peter about it. Not to mention her not realizing it is a symbiote.

HOWEVER...these are also small problems at best and/or stuff that can be explained away fairly easily.

· Like I said more could’ve been done but what was done was sufficient enough.

· Annie got a lot of play in issue #3, was equal with her parents in issue #4, was a little more than equal with them in issue #5 and was really the main focus in issues #6-7. So taking a break from her to give Peter and more notably MJ the spotlight is justifiable.

· The manner of the symbiote’s corruption could be explained via it being an AU but at the same time I think you could equally argue that the symbiote doesn’t generically make someone more aggressive and violent. In the 1994 cartoon arc (which I recently watched) there was the implication that the symbiote actually accentuates attributes of the host and removes inhibitions. So in the show Peter did become more aggressive, but he also became more selfish, more assertive, flirtatious, creepy, egotistical, touchy and such. In issue #2 it was established MJ does a lot of stuff and juggles it all and in this arc we see her basically become hyperactive, she does more becomes more of a go getter. Even if you do not buy that the costume’s affects are metaphorical of a drug and drug addiction and MJ’s ‘symptoms’ are not dissimilar to those displayed by people who use certain drugs. If this was the intention it is actually pretty genius.

· Peter not realizing he is dealing with Venom could be explained via his presumption that the symbiote was dead. But also on a deeper level his need to believe it was dead because of the threat it poses to him and his family and the traumatic memories associated with his killing of Brock. To have crossed that line and it been for nothing would be too horrible. As is the possibility of MJ being bonded to it. this isn’t even getting into how the symbiote just historically freaks Peter out. So basically MJ bonded to the symbiote is something Peter just doesn’t want to believe to the point where he doesn’t truly confront the idea until he has to and it becomes unavoidable.

· Liz not realizing Spinneret is Liz could be explained by unfortunately just a conceit of the whole secret identity concept.

· MJ’s actions could be explained as a result of her being freaked out by seeing Annie’s dying body. Parents (and stereotypically more commonly mothers) become emotionally unsettled when confronted with harm to their children and in this story MJ was so freaked out that she tossed an entire train at Mysterio (which Peter has done in 616 but the story claims he hasn’t in the RYV universe). Her rage is actually a nice tie-in for what we saw in issue #2 when Mole Man’s goons had Annie. So MJ’s questionable and impulsive actions might be the result of Mysterio screwing with her head.

Speaking of the Mysterio scene, it encapsulates something that I think was needed for the series by this point.

Not only does it explain MJ’s only been a superhero for 2 weeks but it showcases her inexperience relative to Peter. In prior arcs the series was slightly in danger of overwriting MJ at the expense of Peter, I am thinking more specifically of her single handily defeating Magneto in issue #7. And the manner in which MJ screws up in the train scene is totally believable and cuts to the heart of the series theme of family.

That scene along with the end of the story also displays some great, great relationship writing between Peter and MJ. It shows us how their dynamic works, how they can be playfully catty but also caring. So often we see MJ being the strong one, the shoulder for Peter to cry on but here she’s the one who needs him, she’s the one who screws up and whom he has to be strong for.

But wonderfully he doesn’t just save her and that’s it. He helps her by facilitating her the opportunity to save herself. The issue also manages to make Peter following her sidestep him being patronizing or creepy by framing it and acknowledging that it could across that way, whilst also not being the intention.

The relationship writing is really good even outside of the scenes where they are not together. MJ’s concerns about Peter resenting her and her not pulling her weight had me apprehensive at first because it is not true to their relationship in general. But the story made it clear they were referring to their dynamic as heroes specifically at which point MJ’s analogies and half truths when discussing her marriage at work made a lot more sense.

At the same time the series portrays Peter as very proactive and competent which is always nice to see and had I read these nearer their original release would’ve likely impacted me more since back then such a portrayal was lacking in the main book.

Speaking of which I appreciate that the series doesn’t feel the need to focus upon all three family members in each story. Issues #1-3 focussed upon them individually, issues #4-5 upon all three of them. Issues 6-7 upon the three of them but leaning towards Annie and issues #8-9 are about Peter and MJ, leaning more towards the latter. This mixing up of the dynamics helps keep things fresh and explore the family more fully.

You’d think then that Annie’s presence in the book would be superfluous filler but in fact what’s so clever in this arc is that Annie despite having little panel time is important in driving MJ

Now let’s get down to the main attraction, Venom.

I felt more could’ve been done but playing it as something that made MJ more hyperactive at times and exhausted at other times was a neat touch. Her outfit looked cool and the climax where she mentally duelled Venom was a wonderful way to pay off both her experiences in RYV vol 1 and ASM #300 with Venom, showing how much MJ has grown.

Finally Liz’s role in this story was...surprisingly effective.

In 616 I do not like Liz Allan being a villain but at the same time given her history (especially from the DeMatteis/Buscema run in the 1990s) I also have to admit it does make a lot of sense. This story in a weird way pays off the potential she had in that role and creates a compelling parallel between her and Mary Jane as mothers who are willing to go to extremes for their children and families.

Finally Stegman was God-tier in the art department as usual but Frigeri as guest artists did a surprisingly solid job nevertheless, with his style complimenting Stegman’s.

Over all I give this arc a solid B+

P.S. MJ having Spider Sense whilst bonded to the symbiote is...weird. The symbiote can’t really give you that power and even if could it didn’t alert her to Peter. Maybe the symbiote was altered by Liz and MJ never considered Peter a threat enough to register to her Spider Sense. The former aspect would help explain how and why she was apparently impervious to fire.

#ryv thoughts #Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #spider-man renew your vows #Gerry Conway #ryan stegma #venom #Venom Symbiote #spinneret #mjwatsonedit #mary jane watson parker #mary jane watson #Spider-Man #Peter Parker #Anna May Parker #Liz Allan

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mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker · 6 years

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Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows Vol 2 #10-12 Thoughts

Previous thoughts here.

Even though issue #10 is a done-in-one and issues #11-12 two-parter, to all intents and purposes the three issues form a three parter, issue #10 acting as a kind of precursor to the latter issues.

First things first the elephant in the room to address is Ryan Stegman as the writer and by extension the artists filling in for him.

Whilst neither Stockman nor Level are the measure of Stegman, they both do respectable jobs, with Level’s art in particular being a better compliment to Stegman’s. This isn’t to say Stockman’s art is ill suited because like in issue #5 his style excels at expressive almost Rugrat looking child characters and issue #10 features one such character as the lead.

Stegman for his part, whilst he may be working off of ideas leftover from Conway, does a surprisingly good job. There are some problems with issue #11-12 I will talk about later, but issue #10 is great and over all his dialogue, pacing and handling of the characters is solid, shockingly solid for someone who I do not believe has much (if any) writing experience. This applies to his writing contributions to issues #8-9 too.

His work is not as layered or as nuanced as Conway’s but it’s still good, still cuts to the heart of this series (family) and still delivers on the emotion when needed.*

This arc as a whole provides a decent enough wrap up to the over all subplots across the series and the 12 issues as a whole did a good job in the pacing department.

I despise decompressed storytelling but RYV up to this point has handled it really well. The first 4 issues were the guiltiest in this department but their style of pacing was justified. Beyond that it’s been done-in-one stories or else two parters or in this case a pseudo three parter. This keeps things nice and breezy and makes you feel like things have actually advanced quite a bit since issue #1.

Of the three issues though it must be said issue #10 was the strongest and most interesting.

I said back when I covered issues #8-9 how I appreciated that each story across the series was mixing up which characters get the focus (last arc being Peter and more noticeably MJ) and that continues here. Whilst technically Normie is the lead character of issue #10 it’s Peter and Annie who’re the Parkers getting all the focus here, and it’s adorable.

This is something we haven’t seen before outside of that back up from issue #1 and it’s nice to call back to that (along with the fact that Peter pumps Annie full of sugar when MJ’s away). The clever part of the story is how the focus upon Peter and Annie is complimented by the Lizard and Billy’s opposition to them. This recalls Mr. And Mrs. Spider-Man #1 from 2009 but also emphasises the key point of this story: Normie’s loneliness.

The whole issue is an exploration of Normie, his attempts to live up to his father and grandfather’s toxic legacy and how that quest and their absence in his life has left him alone and unprepared. He thinks he’s grown up to cope with the challenges facing him but he is still ultimately a sad little boy who misses his family.**

In particular in this issue and the next two Normie’s problems are highlighted when contrasted to Annie. Annie expresses gratitude for having a loving family like Normie lacks, calls out Normie on the depressing state of his young life and behaves (comparatively) more like a real child of around their age.

But it is also Peter’s treatment of him with small sympathy that highlight’s Normie’s childishness and pitiful emotional state. We see his anger is born less from a desire to honour his legacy, or even plain old revenge but more a childish anger about just not having his parents (specifically his Dad around). And Stegman and Stockman just sell it!

You see the shades of Norman and Harry’s vendetta cropping up in him but just from a different angle. This permeates through the arc actually and both directly and more subtly recalls DeMatteis and Buscema’s Harry Osborn arc from the early 1990s.

It’s not just fun or coincidental references either it taps into the idea of how family legacies can be toxic which is contrasted nicely with the family dynamic of the Parkers.

This comparison and contrast between the Osborns and Parkers deepens in issues #11-12.

The most obvious example to bust out is the one already drawn (but done better here imo) from the Venom arc. That of MJ and Liz Allan both being mothers who will go to extremes for the sake of their children, with their confrontation in this arc being pretty juicy.

But we also see it in Peter’s protectiveness over Annie too. In another potentially genius call back to Spec #190 by DeMatteis and Buscema (and possibly RYV vol 1 #2), a rage fuelled Peter beats the crap out of the Rhino due to him threatening his family. This is both a realistic reaction for a parent to have and also very true to Peter’s established character in both RYV and the 616 universe, and something not displayed much in RYV vol 2.

In a way this arc marries (if you pardon the pun) the kind of extremes Peter was shown to have regarding Annie from vol 1 with those MJ had been given in vol 2 as the story shows both becoming aggressive in pursuit of rescuing Annie.

In having Peter hunt down Annie, Annie confront and attempt to redeem Normie and MJ get to the bottom of her Venom situation with Liz, issue #11 does a great job of closing out the over arching story of volume 2 by having the Parkers all equally be the focus. Issue #12 kinda does the same thing by involving the X-Men and similarly the use of a Regent power draining mech helps tie-back into the original RYV.

Issue #12 in regards to balancing out the family has a few more mixed results, but it depends what you want out the conclusion.

The story again provides us with a nice change up in the dynamics as it’s more Annie and Normie’s story than it is Peter and/or MJ’s. So it’s something different, but for a wrap up arc maybe having the Parkers fight all together was more thematically appropriate.

It certainly isn’t poorly done though. Annie comes into her own, Normie is believably redeemed and the story has a great message about how words can sometimes win out over fists.

There is also a great twist (kind of) in having the background character Ms. January wind up as the main villain, allowing for Normie to be redeemed and allowing him to break the Osborn Curse of which the arc is named after. It also ties back into the theme of family as Ms. January’s actions stem from a kind of motherly instinct towards Normie.

The action is pretty decent as are the stakes.

Giant robot = Bad.

Giant robot vs a powerless Spider-Man and Mary Jane = Very bad

Giant robot vs a powerless Spidey and MJ whilst it also has the powers of four of the X-Men = How ARE they gonna get out of this one?

Speaking of the X-Men, the arc handles them in a way I appreciated. Not only does their presence recall RYV #1 but it also ups the stakes whilst not allowing them to take away any of the spotlight from the Parkers.

Specifically Annie who comes into her own as I said and this then leads into a pretty organic transition into the new 8 years later status quo.

So...all great right?

Well...not exactly.

Let’s put aside how the Goblin mech having the X-Men’s powers was somewhat underutilized. Let’s put aside even how as I said it maybe should’ve been better if all three of the Parkers were involved in bringing down the threat.

Let’s instead talk about the three big elephants in the room.

Elephant #1: Venom

When I finished RYV #9 even though MJ was still wearing the symbiote I presumed that she’d beaten it and was going to get rid of it. Seemed like the obvious and natural ending to that arc right?

Right...except that didn’t happen.

I was truly surprised when I saw MJ in the suit during this arc. It got me thinking her absence and trip to the hospital in the prior issue made more sense.

But narratively it served little purpose here. It gave MJ something to do in issue #11 I guess but equally MJ could’ve gone to confront Liz without the symbiote simply to learn why Liz had done what she did.***

So why did MJ keep the costume? My suspicion it was purely to justify her still wearing it in Venom-Verse and thus milk MJ in the suit more given how the marketing department (or whoever) were the people who pushed that onto the series in the first place.

It wouldn’t be much of a problem if not for the fact that it’s disposed of so cheaply and easily in issue #12 and you have to No. Prize why she couldn’t have gotten rid of the suit earlier.

The Fantastic Four were mentioned in issue #10 and since they were the guys who got Peter and the symbiote separated in the first place you’d think this wouldn’t be a problem. The ONLY explanation I can dream up (and this isn’t present in the story mind you) is that the symbiote was altered somehow by Liz to be resistant to fire and sonics, hence why in issue #9 MJ punches a flamethrower or something with no problem.

Elephant #2: Ms. January.

Conceptually a background character turning out to be a villain in a twist is great. Problem is we never learn why.

At first it seems like Ms. January just cares for Normie that much but not only is this an offhand motivation in the first place but more poignantly Harry (not Normie) is brought up more than once by Ms. January in issues #11-12.

So it has something to do with him but we never learn what exactly.

She just switches on everyone, goes nuts and it’s because of Harry.

????????

I think this is an example of Stegman being an artist more than a writer tripping up, it may well have been Conway’s original plan for Ms. January to be the final boss but he hadn’t fleshed that part out and Stegman just plugged it in.

Elephant #3: This arc takes waaaaaay too much stuff from Spider-Girl.

I love Spider-Girl. She is my second favourite Spider character behind Peter himself. Her series was a triumph and an underrated all time classic.

And one of the key parts of that series was Normie Osborn being a sad lonely young man self-destructively trying to live up to his father and grandfather’s legacy as a Goblin, and avenge what he perceived as his father’s death due to Spider-Man. The subplot wraps up in Spider-Girl #27, my favourite issue of the series, in which Spider-Man’s daughter is captured and at the mercy of Normie, calls him out on his BS, expresses sympathy for him and with kindness talks him into changing his ways, finding redemption and becoming an ally to her.

Sound familiar?

Here is the thing, putting aside how Spider-Girl did it better, there is nothing wrong with repeating the same ideas to an extent.

But it is the fact that they repeat the redemption part and the manner in which it happens that is the problem. No Normie isn’t borderline suicidal in this story but he’s still on a path to destruction and still has Annie at his mercy and she still is the one who redeems him.

It would’ve been a better take had it actually been Peter who talked him down.

The comparisons to Spider-Girl are not helped by many fans feeling RYV and Annie supplanted Mayday in certain respects and more poignantly that from here on in the series would be borrowing waaaaaaay too many elements from Spider-Girl, starting with the epilogue to this issue where Annie becomes a teenager.

So...in a lot of ways this arc had the weakest writing of RYV up to this point, but I think it’s strengths in spite of it’s weaknesses combine to render it stronger than the X-Men arc and thus only the second weakest arc of the series thus far. In particular I have to commend them for making so much of it work as they did in spite of Conway leaving.

I doubt I’d be complaining this much had I read these at the time of their release though simply because back then these would’ve still been infinitely better Spider-Man than Slott’s clownshow.

Were I to give issue #10 it’s own grade it’d be an A-.

But the 3 issues collectively get a B-.

Good, worth a read but very flawed nevertheless.

*Which is very damning when you consider Stegman, an artist, was a better Spider-Man writer in 3-5 issues than Slott was across 10 years.

**Also the story explains why Normie seems more intelligent than he should be, it’s because of the Goblin formula which helps resolve what otherwise would’ve been something of a contrivence.

***Speaking of which how did Liz know Spinneret would’ve taken her bait about the symbiote? Not saying there is NO explanation but we don’t really get one ever.

P.S. How the Hell can this random orb contain Peter’s powers? His powers stem from being altered on a genetic level!

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