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starlight-bread-blog · 9 months

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Things that happened in BoJack Horseman

A deep exploration of the 5 stages of grief through the stories of 3 people across time.

A realistic depiction of domestic violence, subtrance abuse, and how it all starts beautifully.

A story of a child Hollywoo star getting wrecked by life and fame which leads to an early death while also serving as a commentary of child celebrities and the way the industry can effect them.

A 50 almost taking advantege of a 17 year old and the long term effects on both of them.

A 20 minute monologue by the main character which is just a eulogy to his abusive mother (that got nominated for an Emmy).

A historically accurate story of a women from a luxurious family getting traumatized, and victimized by misogyny which leads her to a misrable life and becoming an abuser herself.

The full story of a couple getting married all the way to a divorce while unpacking why the marrige failed.

Also things that happened in BoJack Horseman

After many rewrites and changes, a movie ended up being a bimonthly curated box of snacks mid production.

Someone openned their own very unsafe DisneyLand, almost got sued but was saved because of a typo in the document copywriting DisneyLand.

An adult women dated 3 kids in a trench coat (which may or may not be a real adult).

A Hollywoo celebritie opened a store foor Halloween store for January with no floor, and Andrew Garfield fell down.

A character joined improv class that turned out to be a cult.

Character Actress Margo Martindale drive's another celebritie's bout straight to a ship full of spaggeti. Now the spagetti is cooking due to an ad that is actually a mirror, and because it's cooking, it's sinking straight to a city underwater. The Hot Sexy Killer Wale Uber and a celebritie who has just a bunch of spageti strainers laying around can stop it, but that person went to see a movie fir two hours.

A sex robot became a CEO of a company.

A Hollywoo celebritie challenged the governor of california to a ski race of which the winner will be the governor. His represent then does a bunch of legal gymnastics to make that happen. Said celebritie than admits to have no idea how to ski. In the end just some guy wins the race by accident and immediately resigns.

A house fell underground with celebrities in it so everyone kills and eats Zach Braff.

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crooked-wasteland · 9 months

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There is much to be said about the latest episode of Helluva Boss, and it is a bit of a tragedy that the animatic release felt like a more complete version of the episode than the actual finished product. From losing out on the visual intensity of Fizzarolli's injuries to the complete erasure of Barbie in the background of the disaster, it feels like these small changes removed the visceral intensity of the scene and its repercussions. Especially as Barbie is now the obvious point of conflict in Blitz's storyline, it feels like the impact of that part of the story is now devalued by her absence.

But that is hardly the end of the issues at play.

Medrano and her team rushed this story arc.

There are clear parallels to Bojack's two major story beats of Bojack abandoning Herb and the Sugarman Summer Home season arc. It is obvious that Blitz and Fizzarolli have a relationship paralleling that of Herb and Bojack in season one. However, Medrano pulls back in a multitude of ways and fails to commit the plot to a natural conclusion. While Herb rejects Bojack due to the fact that the latter never came to check up on him following his public disgrace and outing, Blitz is absolved of even that.

In the Bojack episode, Herb makes it clear that he doesn't blame his old friend for not standing with him when he was removed from Horsing Around. While he may have been upset at one time, he had cooled off and recognized that if the studio had let them both go, that would have been terrible for both of them.

Rather, it was Bojack assuming Herb's desires and thus avoiding his best friend for years under the belief that he had betrayed Herb so completely that the other wouldn't want to see him anyway. Bojack's insecurity was his own undoing in that relationship, even though it showed that both Herb and Bojack were still very compatible friends. Bojack's background of conditional relationships from his own parents set the groundwork for his hyperavoidant personality and how allowing generational trauma to dictate your relationships in life is a good way to lose everyone you ever hope to keep.

Here, Blitz didn't abandon Fizzarolli. Skipping to the end, Blitz was kept from seeing Fizz in the hospital by a currently unknown third party. Which removes his flaws on a fundamental level. While one could argue ripping off the storyline wholesale would have been just as bad, at least it wouldn't feel like a fanfiction retelling of that Bojack episode. It feels like Medrano had a very negative opinion of Herb and how he rejected Bojack and that this reiteration with her own characters is her way of "fixing" that relationship. At the same time, what Blitz ended up doing is far and above worse than Bojack simply not risking his career.

The episode takes the sequence as dark as they'd dare, Fizzarolli crawling out of the explosion as his body burns and disintegrates. The show really does want to bank itself on the emotional impact this sequence should have, picturing how afraid Fizz must be. The amount of pain he would be in as his mangled body turns to ash as he forces himself from the fire. His flesh melted, his horns seared red and glowing like it would if they were made of real keratin, his bones themselves falling apart as he forced his body to escape the disaster. And he calls out to the one person he held such admiration for, his best friend since they were kids, who turns his back on him and runs.

And somehow, that is not the reason the relationship has become so bitter and vile. Not because Fizzarolli, most likely believing he was going to die, watched his best friend run away and "save himself" (from Fizz's perspective), leaving him to die alone in this calamity. It's because Blitz never came to talk to him. And even then, it wasn't Blitz's fault.

While that reveal worked for Bojack and Herb, it doesn't actually work for when a character almost actually loses their life. The figurative end of the world that comes with losing a job you love and a creative passion project stolen and bastardized can not begin to amount to the physical act of dying. That is actually the entire point of Herb's story as well, why Bojack's initial betrayal is forgivable, but his avoidance was not. It's because what felt like the end of life in the moment didn't actually end anything substantial for Herb. He still lived a full and complete life, minus his best friend who left him to rebuild on his own. And you can not, in fact, make up for lost time.

Speaking of comparisons, the dialogue of this sequence in particular feels quite off-putting. Blitz's line of "You have e no idea what I lost in that fire" is accusatory and draws up a direct comparison to what each character lost. Fizzarolli is physically scarred by the events as well as mentally and emotionally. Horns are shown to be a source of social pride for imps, adding self-esteem and identity to the list of things Fizz lost in the disaster. But because it is implied that Blitz's mother actually did die in the fire, that is a tragedy somehow beyond belief for someone like Fizzarolli. It would be safe to assume that Tilla's death would have been felt by everyone who survived the circus, or at the least for the kids. The dialogue sets up a divide that somehow Blitz watching how his careless moodiness almost killed his crush is not at the top of the list of traumas Blitz has to sort through from this sequence is hard to believe.

Speaking of crush.

And that gets to why this episode as a whole fails to work on a fundamental level. For what it is, what it wants to be, and what it is trying to set up, this episode consistently drops the ball. It is confounding to think that Medrano believed that the relationship for Stolas and Blitz was for more necessary to show than this.

This episode should have been a flashback.

The entire episode should have been the lead up to the disaster. Show us the relationship of Blitz and Barbie and Fizzarolli. Show us the way Blitz is treated by others at the circus even as he ages.

Show us Tilla for five minutes for the love of everything meaningful. It's so hard to believe this should be important to the characters or story when we are given nothing concrete about who Tilla was as a person or mother. We lived the flashbacks of Bojack, no matter how short a snippet they were. We experienced Beatrice's callous nature or his father's self-centered abuse. For as important as she is implied to be, Tilla is not so important as to be an active participant in the story.

At the end of all this, I believe that the greatest issues boil down to a set list

- Characters do not have any lasting responsibility to the situation, their actions or the outcome.

- Somehow a character like Tilla who has never been seen and lacks any personality outside of early Steven Universe Rose Quartz perfection is a loss that is elevated over the trauma we are allowed to very distantly experience in Fizzarolli's monologue.

- The fact that we still have no idea about who any of these characters were to appreciate the sense of loss that this episode was supposed to supply.

- Fizzarolli and Blitz make up completely by the end of a single episode.

- The lack of buildup to the disaster causes confusion as to why it ever happens. Blitz throwing the confession letter on the ground and walking away has no rhyme or reason to it.

This episode is a literal laundry list of bad choices and poor structuring. When a school teacher writes in the margin, "Show, don't tell," this is what they are talking about.

#helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #vivienne medrano #vivziepop #helluva boss #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critique #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critical #here is the real one #pacing who she #i accidentally posted my rough draft

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leikeliscomet · 4 months

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Racism in the ace community is seen as a joke from the outside and a confusing concept in the inside but it's pretty bait tbh:

Barbie, Wednesday and Elsa are ace-coded but not canon aces but they're widely accepted as ace icons in the community. Lacking genitalia, disliking romance and being single are not inherently asexual yet the community happily claims them as ace solely on those reasons. But Selah Summers? Nah she actually didn't say the words "aroace" even though the director confirmed it so she didn't really count. Abbi Singh? Nah she had a girlfriend and her superpower is being a succubus and it's not like the Imperfects actually addressed the themes of an asexual lesbian South Asian woman and her sexuality or anything. Fei Hargreeves? Well yeah the actress and producer confirmed it but she never said it on screen. Ace characters of colour always get held "screened" for approval to be "real rep" in a way white aces aren't its so weird (this also happens to gay aces but that's another post)

Almost anything involving Yasmin Benoit. The reason she's unacceptable ace rep is because of misogynoir. She's spoken so many times about never dating and not having sex (which mind you is none of our business and she shouldn't need to explain herself in the 1st place) and yet she's "too sexual" to represent the community. Again with the nitpicking, popular white ace accounts were so quick to dogpile her for not-so-good takes but when she speaks about racism? Crickets. When she spoke about sexual harassment? Crickets and not only that but they defended her harasser. The main ace activists that defended her were other Black aspecs.

Not understanding how desexualisation affects POC. Specifically, Black women are excluded from representations of love and sex because we're seen as undesirable. It's common for TV/Film to pair up everyone but the Black girl, or have a rebound Black partner for the non-Black main character who's disposed of when they're ready for their "real" non-Black partner again. This isn't done for Black aspecs benefit. It's a form of dehumanisation. Friendship especially in m/f is needed but exclusively pushing for friendship between Black women and non-Black men when there is romance coded or confirmed and shaming Black women in fandom or in show for shipping the Black female character is not doing what you think its doing.

Not understanding how sexualisation effects POC. Again linking to Yasmin, POC, especially Black people have been sexualised due to white supremacy. The "allosexual privilege" framework fails to acknowledge this because Black people's sexual attraction and sex is seen as aggressive and animalistic. Black people aren't "allowed" to be ace because of this sexualisation and why Yasmin regardless of what she wears or does is seen is too promiscuous.

Not acknowledging ace POC as ace rep. Again, where was the acknowledgement of Selah and the Spades as groundbreaking rep? The first aroace darkskin Black girl as a lead in any film? Sherronda J Brown spoke about Big Mouth's Black ace character and someone said it didn't count just bc they dislike the show. Again with Abbi and Fei the community didn't make noise for them like they did Todd from Bojack Horseman or Florence from Sex Ed (mind you the gap between how they did Florence vs O is jarring in itself) Isaac from Heartstopper was inspirational for many aspecs and I wont take that away but the way he's instantly credited for ace representation when he has so little screentime compared to the others is wild.

Just tired tbh. "Listen to POC aces!" "POC aces are valid!" Prove it then...?

#venting bout ace stuff again #i got more to say too lol #asexual representation #black asexuals #black asexual #ace representation #black ace #black aces #asexual #asexuality

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tired-hellowl · 3 months

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here' a comprehensive list as to every problem I have with the current *unecessary characters known as 'Glitz and Glam'

Do they expand the story/worldbuilding in any meaningful way? Do they explore a new hidden dynamic/past conjunction with a differing character and is that explored meaningfully? What was the point of having them animated when Mammon can portray the same level of humiliation/degrading/on stage lack of positive reinforcements. 😐

I'm so sorry but I view these characters as necessary garbage that caused some animators arthritis via too many patterns, not enough screen time to have meat and potatoes worth of dialogue, or really any pretense within the story whatsoever and yes this extends towards every female character on screen but let's not worry about that !!! Even if they are IMPLIED to be from the ring of envy-a color or ring we haven't seen nor meaningfully conveyed to the audience that it even is possible to go in/exists- it isn't conveyed to the audience well enough besides the visual implication of colors???? Instead of having shitty b-plots that go nowhere via Stolas and Blitz goofing off in seeing stars, Moxxie and Millie getting C-plots for no reason, or loona getting a rabies shot- all of that time could have been exploring hell, going to different rings, focusing on other characters besides the main 5, literally I would prefer a quiet episode like BoJack Horsemans 'Fish out of Water'where we can actually see the personalities of the main characters be appreciated and shown to us but that's never gonna happen :/

What I've been worried about is not even the on screen racism/out of touch 'rap/hip-hop parody' leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, if that isn't enough then the sexualization/implication of an incest type dynamic and nothing else besides fetish bait with these characters constantly grabbing one another and not really acting like siblings moreso someone who has never had siblings attempting to write sibling banter and failing terribly :/

Why do you have a problem with 'Klown Bitch' it's so catchy! Uhm, no??? I feel bad for anyone who attempts to defend helluva/hazbin as good modern musicals let me grit my teeth in silence as to the glorification over white people dominating black culture

HERES A HISTORY OF FEMALE HIPHOP ARTISTS: X

Pictured above is very old concept art about twin characters and its the same hairshape viv kept to transfer over to glitz/glam- despite clearly being over designed and way too much going on Alá vivzie style. It just goes to show she recycles even from herself and not every design is always new hot and fresh :/ AND SPEAKING OF CONCEPT ART-

Also also don't forget salems' concept designs thst got passed even though they loon toony, loony, clown enough, and definitely majorly way easier to have animated besides the mess that is the current design meta ???

Love how you can clearly see the silhouettes being so easily identifiable comparably towards the actual amalgamated mess that is their current limbs attempting to hold onto their toothpick body for their head.

All this screams to me is viv using the artists thst try to come onto helluva and they try their best with what their given, viv only picks the best bits SHE thinks is worth her time rather then thinking about the audience or animating anything else besides overglorified white people rap 🤔

Also the episode literally presents its full internalized misogyny/racism within this episode because vivzie herself literally admitted to typing into script with a full chest that

'Women just ain't funny'

. . .

why present misogyny within the series if you as a creator aren't willing to tackle the subject matter? Why write about it or present it as if you're smart over including the joke in your script when it isn't even funny because it just further pushes women out of the entertainment/comedy business which mind you IS ALREADY VERY WELL MALE DOMINATED SO PUTTING OTHER WOMEN DOWN TO PUT YOURSELF UP ISNT HELPING YOUR CASE VIV???

So then what was the point of adding female clowns if all you were going to do with them was make fun of them out of their expense and then profit off of the fact that they are incest coded????????????

?????????Are we watching the same fucking series????????

#vivziepop critical #i'll add more later #helluva critique #helluva critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss is homophobic #helluva boss critical #i hate it here #anti hazbin hotel #anti spindlehorse #anti helluva boss #anti vivziepop #cw inc*st #I hate glitz and glam so much

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thowawayuntilfurthernotice · 6 months

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Interpreting media is tricky, mostly because everyone views and analyzes media differently, but this is fucking reaching.

If this was a story about personal trauma, then why does the writing utterly fail at showing this?

In the Loo Loo Land episode, Blitzo shows no signs of trauma during his fight with Robo Fizz. Despite his backstory showcasing that he was left traumatized by the circus fire. If anything, he was more annoyed by Robo Fizz's presence than anything else.

Moxxie's character is also pretty inconsistent as well, seeing as some episodes show that he's reluctant when it comes to missions while other episodes show that he has a "Shoot first, ask questions never." attitude when it comes to his job.

Also, it's kind of hard to take Stolas' trauma seriously when the narrative is constantly portraying him in the right.

The reason why Bojack's arc in Bojack Horseman works is because his self destructive nature is shockingly realistic. And the show does end up calling him out on his behavior multiple times.

My main issue with Helluva Boss' writing is that Viv clearly doesn't care about narrative conventions, all she cares about is her favorites coming out on top no matter what.

Stolas and Blitzo will never be portrayed in the wrong because Viv won't allow it. Millie will never get any proper character development because Viv does not care for her, and it’s obvious that the only reason Loona is even around at this point is because Viv knows how popular she is with furries.

And I'm pretty sure the reason Viv decided that the pilot was no longer canon was because she got tired of people rightly criticizing her for abandoning the wacky workplace plot in favor of fan fiction angst.

#Vivziepop Critical #Helluva Boss Critical #Hazbin Hotel Critical #Spindlehorse Critical

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rockanroller · 10 months

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actually with bojack trending it pulled up a clip that reminded me of why i have issues with viv's writing/portrayal of her characters across Hazbin, ADDICT, and Helluva. bojack makes a statement that diane's book about him taught him that "as screwed up" as he is "that's ok" and of course he and diane's convo goes on about how that isn't the case but if "that's all he got out of their friendship" then it isn't a good relationship for either of them. but that first part is what reminded me of a shared criticism i have with many folks of viv's character portrayals across the board, here's my take on it... "they're screwed up and that's ok" feels like the through-line narrative that permeates all of viv's content. and that message in itself is a good one, that no one is perfect and we all make mistakes, that we need to practice empathy as viv has said before. but where bojack follows-through is it never forgives him. you may feel pity or sympathy for the harm he keeps bringing on himself, but ultimately he's held responsible for his mistakes in ways that tear his life apart repeatedly, and even though his trauma led to a lot of his problems, it was still his own decisions and actions that caused his downfall. viv's writing (so far) seems to lack that self-awareness. in Helluva we see brief glimmers of awareness, characters suffering consequence, decisions to be better, moments of growth, but they're often glossed over with a gag or over-turned in the next moment like the character is reset back to square one and didn't actually learn anything. the echoes of set-up are there, but there's rarely any follow-through on them. in ADDICT we're just shown "remember this asshole from the pilot? well he's a victim isn't that sad? : (" and that's it. not to mention merch and art romanticizing his abuser which creates more confusion like "wait are we supposed to find his abuser...cool?". across the board we're given very little reasoning as to why or even if we should like or forgive any of the characters in Hazbin or Helluva. fans who already know the characters will do their own projecting of the creator's intent. fans & general (adult) audience members who are seeing these characters for the first time in their animated debuts are left in the dark which is another way the writing fails. it comes off like we're expected to know everything viv/her crew know about the characters and the "hellaverse" by being in the fandom. reading the comic pages, attending streams, watching viv's twitter, being part of the patreon, reading trivia, etc. to piece together the bigger picture that the crew *should* be writing into the show *if* they want to appeal to a general (adult) audience. if they only want to appeal to their own circle/fandom then sure they can do whatever they want, they/their fans just need to accept that if that's the case, outsiders are going to be confused by no fault of their own. fandom could even welcome outsiders in by running them through the correct order of content, instead we get a lot of "how dare you say that bad faith critique you pos gtfo" attitudes.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #bojack horseman #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #thoughts #rambles

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masonic-critical · 7 months

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x - Double Toasted Interview Pre-Helluva Boss Prouction

Seeing vivzie flub her numbers and mouth over her """team""" within this video is very telling.

"40 or 50 people or so I think i would have to check and make sure on discord--we have sorta 10-ish people in my core team with my animators. I'm a main compositor with my friend while my background artist and cleanup team of 15 or so is just so-big it's so Huge its so large! We have so many people working on this project and just handling with so many key components over backgrounds and key framing the lip syncs, my background artists doing so much work. I feel like and hope people will really stay on"

Interviewee Joke: 'Oh how many animators do I have [again], no-oh god no!!!'

It's insane to think Helluva Boss has over 80+ animation credits which is definitely not a good thing. It's one thing in industry to have a large studio but it's another thing of collaborating artists coming and going to work on an ongoing series is not a good thing to flaunt. Even if your show has won two independent animation awards you should take pride over producing to actually make something good instead of flaunting the fact that you acknowledge the bare minimum of abuse, rape, misogyny, supremacy, classism, sexism, or gender critical writing fails face first in every episode.

Her favorite movies being Cat's Don't Dance/Who Framed Roger Rabbit and referencing BoJack Horseman even referencing that they anthropomorphize their themes being prejudice and STORYTELLING DEVICES, so what story is Helluva Boss even telling right now???? She claimed to even want to write about dark themes and mature adult topics about prejudice and yet has nothing to show for it after 6 years of nothing burger that is Helluva Boss and Hazbin Production :/

She fully admits that patreon and merch hauls fund hazbin/helluva production and that she fully handles the patreon money herself she budgets to push towards 'Hazbin' to 'Pay her small team'. She wanted to try to promote a Kickstarter over the pilot pre-A24 pickup before she made it big-time which is weird to hear when she didn't even have hazbin finished while boarding out 4 episodes of helluva bosses' first season. Even if it was supposed to allegedly be a 1 season show only. It's weird to try to discern which show she's trying to elaborate/talk about which one.

X - Evidence of the promotional videos for Helluva Boss/Hazbin. Strangely enough it has always been together instead of separated meaning she was attempting to garner hype for her series through Helluva Boss Merchandising and attempting to cyphen even more money over small Hazbin merchandising.

X - Here is Vivs' patreon promo earlier before the Hazbin pilot. Discussing how much she wanted to have a bigger budget at the time to fund her animation. Talks about Zoophobia Reboot and there has never been discussion since. Originally charged 10$ for private qna's. 50$ for discord access calls, unsure if this is still a Patreon feature. Also unsure over the 100$/500$ speeddraw commissions she promo'd... There is another production patreon she teases that holds nothing beside the Vivziepop name.

The show being placed upon rehabilitation and redemption despite the focus only being towards 'A Disney/Tim Burton Princess in Hell' goes to show that she had no direction of where she wanted to take Angel or Charlie. Charlie always being based on a porcelain doll? Greek/Religious Context/Egyptian mythology where???

"The best animation in it, is not done by me"

Within full admission of her nervous attitude without naming anyone within her team and just referred to everyone as 'My team/Crew' is very telling of how humbling she really even is.

Thr 'Yotta' she refers to is in reference to Studio Yotta, Helluva Boss is funded and produced alongside Horseless Cowboy with Horvitz towards the Casting Direction, meaning she's been funded with a major video game industry since day 1 of Helluva Bosses' production ergo, Vivziepop/Spindlehorse/Vivienne Medranno has never been independent in her entire production malpractice. She stated to be aware and know of wanting to work under SAG is very intriguing given that since Moxxie has been absent for half of season 2 its probably due to Richard striking as my best guess to the messy writing of broken railroad tracks that was supposed to be Helluva Boss production.

While it is one thing to have connections in industry to connect and come together and credit within your artists and studios, Vivzie does not have a studio. The merch sales/Patreon/YouTube QnA's directly go towards paying her animators, voice actors, and production management but not at all a 'Studio' she promotes herself as. All animation work and shots are handled through Discord and emails online this has been proven time and time again.

The fact that the pilot has been pushed aside so much over Helluva Boss and not a genuine interest to have redemption or care and love within the disguised nightmare that is Helluva Bosses' writing. She loves to flaunt demonology and love towards hell of aesthetics with demons/monsters she fails to actually represent the actual Demons of folklore/hell world building in HB leaves me to be worried... That she discredits actual Demon culture by stating

'I don't know have you seen one? They don't exist its just been human mysticism, Demons can be anything. Have you been to Hell?' Without realizinf she will fail to depict the Lord of the Flies as Gluttony....

"--It might not ever happen to work together with [Ke$ha] professionally would be a dream honestly. --The next Ke$ha song I want to animate is either is going to be official or is something that she wrote for one of MY projects or something"

She did and she made her state 'There's like, a rainbow inside my vagina.' Wooow so professional, "Cotton Candy" so originally produced to be so professionally Disney-Grade. The fact that she halted and couldn't release season 1's full finale due to having Ke$ha break her contract with legal battles and corporate music industry bindings during the Dr. Luke 2016 trial, waiting until 2020 to finally release it within this year and have Lukewarm perception because Rose cannot even sing within the episode its a replacement actor to sing for her! She just wrote the bare minimum draft of a song to submit for you to animate! Time and time again viv just flaunts herself to throw herself out there over 'Look at my projects aren't they neat!" And then be a monster during production of hoarding artists to herself and trash talking/harboring a group of bullies within her 'Core Crew'.

"Zoophobia is my Childhood project, it had everything and it was a mess. It was the magic of a childhood story told by an adult because I was in college while working on it at the time. It's the incubation chamber for all of my projects now. When I go back to it, it will be a complete reboot but for now it's on the shelf.... I lost all passion for it but I love my characters in it."

... And yet she hasn't talked about the comic since Bad-Luck Jacks' animation release nearly 4 years ago? All merchandising she promotes is about Helluva Boss and barely anything towards Hazbin or Zoophobia which is supposedly 'In-Production' while these merchandising of stickers, pins, skateboards, switch cases, posters, sketchbooks covers of Demonic stickers, sexualized hornybait, racist and transphobic enamel pins that can't keep character skin colors correct, and puzzles because of course! All of which, is merchandising of HELLUVA BOSS!

Vivziepop only views her characters as dollar signs. She still features her old Zoophobia designs within her Redbubble account goes to show how much profit she loves to make with other peoples' character designs.

X X Evidence of the Above Statement with the character KiKi/Christine [Cherry Bomb] originally being from Zoophobia before redesigned into Hazbin

Zoophobia concepts of what we lost rambling from Viv herself....

An interview of 7 years I didn't get to discuss over

X - A Season 1 Helluva Boss poor promotional trailer trying to garner hype for the series acting as if it was telling a cohesive story with actual plot happening with little Stolas screen time. It makes me wonder if season 1 was an entirely different drive of writing thoughts and artist drafts compared to season 2's production.

X - Helluva Boss Season 2 promotional storyboard conception, Two years ahead of time and finally all the boards make sense for season 2 and there still is no eventual plot besides setting up Fizz and Ozzy over Belzebub and Tex or any returning season 1 villain akin to D.H.O.R.K. or Cherub/Verrosika and especially no sight of Moxxie and Millie development besides fight scenes.

It makes me think of however much season 3 will suffer to spiral into production.

#spindlehorse critical #links are purple blue is source and red is viv quotes #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #anti vivziepop #anti spindlehorse #anti brandon rogers #anti hazbin hotel

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tocomplainfriend · 6 months

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It really baffles me that Viv cites two of the biggest social satires of the past two decades (South Park and Bojack) as her inspirations when she has zero to say with her own work. It really drives home just how hard she missed the point with both.

Yes! I have no idea of how she consumes media. With how heavy certain episodes of BH are about topics she treats completely different in her own series also worries me of how a bigger public is going to consume HB and HH. How bad is she gonna treats the topics in Harbin? I heard HH is supposed to be more serious and bigger over all. -but how it's a bigger thing, I think there has to be more and better writers?? Hopefully, things like Valentino's shit gets treated seriously. AND ALSO BOJACK HAS GREAT WRITING FOR WOMAN, HOW THE FUCK SHE WRITES ALL HER FEMALE CHARACTERS LIKE SHIT???? There are entire episodes where the POV changes to (for example) Princess Caroline. Even the energy and the way the episode is presented changes! A fully non-blitz and non-moxxie main episode about Millie would be a miracle! How much that in HH they make Lucifer wife a bitch cause woman. They seem to lean into sympathy for him. It's killing me. There are so many shows that do so well in the front that Viv fails... People should redirect themselves to that media! -and Viv should take criticism to make her show better and make sure it doesn't hold shitty views. IT'S INDIE, she has the opportunity to do so much and yet.

#helluva boss critical #helluva boss critique #vivziepop critique #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop critical

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dongslinger--420 · 2 months

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How is bojack more loyal to diane?

It's demonstrated in many ways throughout the show, but the bottom line is that BoJack's affection for the people he cares about is a lot more unconditional than Diane's. Diane's Cordovia arc is a good example of this: when Diane was at her worst, BoJack let her stay with him for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. But after this situation gets resolved, Diane starts ghosting him because she believes that they bring out the worst in each other. As she looked back on the situation, she analysed it entirely objectively, and although you could easily argue that she was right, she completely failed to notice that BoJack was able to uproot his entire life (including his girlfriend who he loved) for her. Diane's tendency to think about things on a purely logical and objective level means that she fails to develop close bonds with people, and this also often manifests itself with throwing people under the bus. Diane does this to BoJack twice in the span of the series: once with One Trick Pony*, and once in INT. SUB, and both times she completely fails to consider BoJack's side of the story (or in the case of the latter, Penny's side), to the point where BoJack has to directly confront her to make her understand that actually, writing the humiliating stories of him without permission was a shitty thing to do, and it is weird that she neither considered how he would feel, nor did she ever apologise for it. By contrast, in Hank After Dark, when BoJack is given the choice to abandon Diane in her endeavours, when literally the entire world is against her, and when he could easily be dragged down with her, he chooses to stay with her and support her.

Diane is, at heart, a utilitarian. She has plagued herself with the idea that she can Save The World, regardless of who she has to throw under the bus to get there. BoJack, on the other hand, recognises deep down that the only thing truly worth it in the end is the people he cares about. In his words: "in this terrifying world, all we have are the connections that we make".

*Yes they agreed to have a "warts and all" version of the book, but they didn't agree on the format the book turned out to be in. Diane writing the book from her perspective made a significant difference, as it made it more mocking than reflective.

#diane nguyen #bojack horseman #bojack and diane #bjhm #bojack the horse #bjhm s1 #one trick pony #bjhm s2 #hank after dark #yes and #int. sub

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sciderman · 3 months

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If anyone is a PeanutButter type it's Wade, you're telling me he doesn't ask "woah, is this a crossover episode?" To the forth wall? , Wade is the type of person to get really mad when someone says he isn't Mr PeanutButter. Anyway to my actual ask, I think Peter would be Diane, he's just.. Her. It feels like Diane's drive to write so her damage isn't good damage, it's just damage is very similar to Peters drive to protect others and use his powers responsibly because for Pete, if he doesn't follow responsibility then all the things he's been through, and especially uncle Ben's death, if he's responsible it means something good came out of it.

I think I could talk forever about the parallels between Peter and Diane. Even the parallels between Peter and Wade's relationship and Mr PeanutButter and Diane's relationship.

i really do think there's a huge - huge parallel to be drawn between mr peanutbutter and wade, yeah. i was actually thinking about the way wade "copes" as i was writing this stupid little deadpool analysis in my head this morning.

like - okay. bojack and mr peanutbutter are kind of the same beast, but their outlooks are different. both bojack and mr peanutbutter are kind of tirelessly looking for validation and attention. but bojack fails at it because of his rancid, self-pitying negative vibes - whereas mr peanutbutter tirelessly tries to be a crowd-pleaser, all the time. like he's trying to please an audience, all the time.

and that's wade wilson.

wade doesn't want to be a downer. he feels empty inside, sure, and tirelessly seeks to fill that void, but he doesn't want to bring down the vibes. he wants the audience to love him. he wants love from anywhere. he doesn't care. he knows that nobody loves a killjoy. so he's going to be the fan-favourite, no matter how fake it all is.

very mr peanutbutter core, yes.

and so am i. i try to be a mr peanutbutter. a crowd-pleaser. i want all of you to think i am really really funny and attractive and loveable and the best ever so you should love me. but actually, i am sad and kind of a jerk inside. but i don't want to be a downer. i want to be a fan-favourite. so i try my darndest to make you all laugh so you'll like me.

i think i need to rewatch bojack to get into the parallels between diane and peter - but i do see where you're coming from. but i think diane is a more difficult character to reduce into a single thing - she's - well, she's complex. i think that's good, that you know, no two characters are entirely alike. peter and diane are both really very complex beasts with their own thing going on.

even in the vein of mr peanutbutter and diane's relationship vs wade and peters - i don't immediately think that wade is the mr peanutbutter in that equation. i think wade and peter both have their mr peanutbutter moments. i don't think it's a 1-1 comparison at all. but that's because every relationship has their own thing going on, and i'd really hope peter and wade's relationship doesn't have any sort of parallel - i think it's kind of one-of-a-kind, and so is diane's and mr peanutbutter's.

i can't believe i can be talking so seriously about a character named mr peanutbutter.

#sci speaks #meta

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bojackhorsemanobviously · 1 year

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Least favorite Diane moments (no hate just my least fav moments from her)

#ive never been a fan of a character being a mouthpiece for a creator tbh its my least fav thing a creator can do #i just dont see what good berating your friend can do for em #bojack horseman #diane nguyen #can i also just say i dont care for dianes speech here bec its sorta implying that miserable person should be happy because they have suces #at times i think they failed the mark to find a middle ground between mcs depression /trying to tell shitty people not to excuse their shit #really pouring salt on the wounds here #i understand the whole not wanting people to excuse their shit but i just cnat help but feel bad when they draw him LIKE a cowarding child #adding on he was almost about to off himself not long after her death so i would say it def wasnt easy #i think he needed help to get over his guilt its the only way to move forward and stop hurting people

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dumbassnamedkhoshekh · 1 year

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We lost a good show yesterday.

Heartbreaking art by @hannah4xyz on Instagram

Not just any good show. A show that, for all it's silly dirty jokes, gore, swears, and satire, is at it's core about connection, love, and healing. And The Deep State (I had to). A show that ended, not in a blaze of glory or with a peaceful, satisfying conclusion, but with a cliffhanger which had the lead making the biggest, most heartbreaking decision of her life, the results and consequences of which we will likely never get to see. Inside Job was something else. It could have easily fallen back on the crutch of over the top bloody violence and shock humor like so many adult animated series before it, but, while it did use those elements, its strength was always in the story it told and the characters it gave life to. A story of trying and failing and trying and succeeding to making bonds with people, a story of finding love in the darkest of places, a story of healing from the wrongs done to you in the past that shaped who you are now. A story that was way deeper and more emotionally damaging than it had ANY right to be. Then again, that's what you get when the the showrunner and executive producers came from shows like Gravity Falls and Bojack Horseman. Thank you Shion, Alex, and Mike, for the story you created and gave to us. Thank you Lizzy, Clark, Christian, Adam, Tisha, Brett, John, Bobby, Andy, Chris, and everyone else who brought the characters to life through their brilliant voices. Thank you to the writers, and the animators, and everyone else behind the scenes who made us laugh and love and cry with these characters and these stories. Thank you, Inside Job. Thank you.

Good night, my sweet comfort show. May we one day meet again.

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crooked-wasteland · 2 months

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Hazbin Hotel Live Blog: Welcome to Heaven

Coming back I found I did enjoy the last episode far more than I did the others. It obviously suffers from who the director is, but I could still see the more competent writer underneath certain portions of the episode. This one is written by Adam Stein who was credited for six episodes of Harley Quinn, a series I admittedly do not particularly care for. I wouldn’t consider the series bad and I enjoy scenes more than the whole, but its clear that Hazbin and much of Medrano’s writing ideas are in many ways ripped off from Harley Quinn far more than Bojack Horseman. To be frank, if Medrano had stuck her comparison to Harley Quinn, I doubt she would be criticized nearly as much as she is for her writing. I know, for myself, if she had compared her shows to Harley Quinn and never once breathed in the direction of Bojack Horseman, I wouldn’t have ever been motivated to even criticize this series. I think a comparison to Harley Quinn is fair, it is an objectively worse version of Harley Quinn, but it is better suited to the style and audience of that show far and above something of high art and value like Bojack. Harley Quinn is simply not my tastes, I wouldn’t say it’s bad, but even with a gun to my head I could never in good faith consider it good. It’s better than Hazbin and Helluva Boss, but its also a fairer comparison.

Vaggie adds “gah” to her line about being a liar in the most painful way. While they obviously paid Stephanie the most, they in no way paid her enough to care. It was physically written into the script and it highlights how little the actress actively participated in the series. She didn’t even try to make it sound natural, she doesn’t care for the character she is playing and she doesn’t care whether or not we know.

It makes no sense that Angel Dust is still working for Valentino. He could just stay in the hotel and ignore Val’s calls and texts like we have actively seen him do. So it’s like he hates working for Val, does so under duress and due to a contract on his soul, but Charlie is the princess of Hell whom Valentino openly stated he was threatened by and her hotel and patrons are under the protection of Lucifer who aligned himself with Charlie and her goals…. Just don’t go? There is Vaggie, Charlie, Lucifer and even Alastor who are more than capable of handling someone like Valentino on their own, let alone as a united front. Why is this still happening?

The physical comedy falls flat. Cheri grabs Sir Pentious’ hand and it cracks and is all mangled like it is broken, but he has zero response to it. The humor requires there to be a reaction to the level of violence displayed. Having not even a minor one means the sequence may as well not have happened, and it frankly feels like an excuse to just say Alex Brightman was in the episode and have him say as many lines as possible regardless of whether or not he should. I genuinely don’t understand why this character is even in Hell. Who is he as a person? Just why?

Sera says she only green-lit the exterminations so that Hell didn’t act up, and places the blame on Adam for Lucifer getting involved. But then she just… keeps letting Adam do what he’s doing, which is what caused her to feel threatened like this in the first place. So essentially “This is all your fault because of the things you’ve done. So keep doing them.” I don’t even get why Sera or any of Heaven feels this way about Hell. I assume Sera knows Charlie’s plans about redemption, but she seems threatened by it? When in reality treating Heaven like a prize for sinners seems like a logical way of cooperating with Hell and even maintaining civil relations.

Also, can I just point out how the character designs really fail to send any sort of message. Alastor, Niffty, Velvette, Carmella and her daughters, Rosie, and Mimzy are hyper humanoid demons in a Hell where non-human designs make up a majority of the cast and the distorted, abstract and animalistic designs in Hell make sense, whereas Heaven is mostly humanoid with random demonic designs walking around. It fails to send a message as well as just makes Heaven and Hell entirely the same. It fails to really sell the idea that Heaven is in any way better than Hell. Honestly, demons should have less human designs and appear more twisted and deformed. Heaven should have prioritized humanoid figures. Especially seeing as Medrano with a heritage in Latin America and Catholicism would know that the idea of Christianity she is supposedly criticizing emphasizes that humans were made “in the image” of god and angels. It also sets up an idea of one’s soul being cleansed by having this “godly” form. Mixing in furry designs at the same rate as Hell collapses any argument for media literacy or messaging being made.

Welcome to Heaven as a song is the best song of the show thus so far. It is the One Short Day of Hazbin, a vapid superficial scene-setting song that isn’t meant to further the characters, just the plot, and it actually succeeds. I’m not amazed by it, never would i play it for enjoyment reasons, but it works for the role it plays and is the only song that does so well.

Adam is telling Vaggie her own backstory, my favorite bad writing trope.

Additionally, I thought heavenly weapons were the only thing that could harm an angel. But Lute just rips off Vaggie’s wings with her bare hands. It really confuses the world when you don’t even keep to your own rules.

In the previous episode, Charlie says the hotel isn’t “working”, this episode has Adam demanding “evidence”. The lack of understanding what Charlie is looking for when she says Progress is never defined. On one hand she says Angel Dust is making progress, but just the last episode said that the hotel wasn’t actually helping anyone. Even at the start of the episode we don’t see any change in Angel Dust, just that he’s sad. He still swears performs sex work, is rude and crude, and at no point has his situation with drug addiction been addressed in any way. I can appreciate not wishing to say someone performing sex work is committing sin. As well as the implication that how one holds themself is unimportant to Heaven. But I think everyone can agree that drug addiction and abuse is harmful to those in the addiction and those who care for them. And also, it is extremely difficult to break. Drug addiction would be an excellent analogy for sin and breaking it would work as a parallel for redemption easily. So why is it the one thing you had going for you in way of themes and a show of progress and character growth we’ve never actually even addressed. In fact, Loser Baby enables the idea that Angel Dust’s use of drugs is fine because he’s a loser anyway. Just give up on yourself. So when this episode inevitably implies that Angel has actually been making progress on that front, it’ll make no sense.

That happened a whole lot sooner than I thought it would. And it being Husk saying he thought Angel was “Better than that” really does make his whole message in Loser Baby hypocritical. Him being the one to judge others on how they cope, offloading his hypocrisy on the excuse “I’m not trying to get to heaven”, but then still performs the emotionally abusive tactic of publicly and maliciously shaming is partner into a form of compliance. And this is the romantic relationship I’m supposed to be going nuts over? Even in the case where one can argue he is doing it from a place of concern, he has never once cared about Angel’s drug use in the series. It has never been mentioned in any detail of it being harmful. It is literally placed on the same level as his hypersexuality in the song Loser Baby, which we are supposed to wave away as not being harmful because he enjoys it. The line is he “samples” every sex toy and drug. This is just the Alastor must be lying because nothing makes sense argument, except its the world that doesn’t make sense and thus nothing can be trusted and the suspension of disbelief and the act of world building is inherently gone. This isn’t even a story at this point. It is merely a bunch of drawings doing things for nearly half an hour because time is money, and Medrano likes money.

I feel the setup isn’t too bad. It’s the story of Job, which, yes, you should use the material you are criticizing if you are actually seeking to criticize it (whether or not Medrano’s is even attempting a critique on Christianity is hugely up to debate, but that’s not for this kind of post). It’s Lucifer in the Bible coming to the court of god and saying he’s been on earth observing the humans. He claims humans would never worship god if not for god incentivizing them through blessings and so god is like, “bet, do your worst”. Except, in the Bible story it shows god’s callousness. He allows Job to suffer and gives permission to Lucifer to torture this faithful man, of which when Job laments, god chastises him for doubting. This removes the negative qualities of god from the story by just watching Angel Dust make his own decisions. Which works for the idea of free will, I suppose, but the idea of free will being imagination from the last episode to now just waiting for Angel Dust to choose to conform to an idea of morals takes away any meta critique on the nature of heaven. Just saying.

Still not a fan of how infantilized the show makes Niffty.

The scene with Angel standing up to Valentino was such an attempt at an emotional reaction, and in reality it only succeeds in tiptoeing the edge of emotional catharsis. It never gets to reach that point because we don’t actually see the way that Val and Angel interact most of the time. And I’ll just say it, the Poison sequence ruins this scene. It set up this idea that Angel Dust has complicated feelings for Valentino and in many ways their relationship is just as much an addiction as the drugs. But we never see the harmful side to Angel’s drug addiction and nor do we see his complicated feelings for Val break down as he grows closer to Husk. It is unearned. And then having Charlie point blank say why that scene exists for the narrative kills any and all investment. It was there just so Angel Dust can fit Adam’s checklist. So there is no authentic emotions attached to that scene from the ground up. It is a contrivance that feels almost hateful in its existence.

Why is Adam treated as Sera? Adam was the one who made the list, but Emily contributes it to Sera. Sera didn’t even know how a soul ends up in heaven, all she says is “he was the first human soul here”, meaning she defers to him to understand. To have her be the one saying not everything is written in ink, when she openly is the first one to say she hasn’t any idea, really confuses the lack of story you are trying to tell.

So, the whole series has now confirmed it has no clue how to tell a story. “If Hell is forever then Heaven must be a lie”, so the idea of moving between heaven and hell is not a concept. Someone from heaven cannot fall to hell and someone from hell cannot enter heaven, except they can. Vaggie. Her entire existence is proof that heaven isn’t forever, so why would Hell be? If anything, Vaggie should be a spark of hope for Charlie. Additionally, the threshold of whether souls can be redeemed has nothing to do with if they can or not. Rather, it ends the same way it began. No one is in control and no one has any power one way or the other. But Vaggie being in hell, despite being an angel, who was never held in a court to determine if she should fall or not and was deemed unholy by humans, not the council of angels, just brought this whole house of cards down. In fact, the person on trial should have been Vaggie, and in extension Lute. Who is Lute to have the right to make such a call compared to Emily? Why does no one bring up this discrepancy? And having Vaggie on trial instead of an ignorant Angel Dust being critiqued without his knowledge would have been a better vehicle for not just exploring Vaggie’s past, but also the ideas surrounding redemption and banishment and the values/hypocrisy of heaven. As it stands, this episode was a waste of everyone’s time.

Adam Stein brought nothing to the table, all the same issues in Medrano’s writing are present and played out here. Adam may as well be a ghost writer as he didn’t even attempt to bring any of his own strengths to the script. I can’t say I’m surprised at this, however. It is just Harley Quinn after all.

2/10

#vivziepop critical #vivienne medrano #vivziepop #spindlehorse critical #vivziepop criticism #spindlehorse criticism #hazbin critique #hazbin hotel liveblog #hazbin critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel #hazbin criticism #adam stein #harley quinn

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