I’m rereading Po3 and despite its flaws I really enjoyed the introduction to the three. Jaykit isn’t mentioned to be blind in the first few chapters and instead they chose to show how much MORE capable he is compared to his littermates; until at the end of chapter 3, he brings up his blindness on his own. It makes forcing him to be a medicine cat SO much more frustrating because it really feels like they’re setting him up to be a warrior and choose his own fate (note i haven’t finished the reread this is just my first impression)
I like how you seem to take that path in BB regardless! It makes his arc so much more enjoyable
His arc in canon is super frustrating because he's such an independent character who clearly wants to make his own decisions in life, but then he just gets shoved into the medcat den. I LIKE that he ultimately goes there and that he enjoys it; but it was still really fucked up that they stripped away his autonomy in the process.
Re: they are not real, they are writing choices. Taking away the choices a disabled character can make over their own life, forcing them into a celibate nun role, and then going "awwwww dont worry see? he likes it! This was the best thing for him :)" was fucked up.
And imo it didn't have to be that way! You wouldn't have to go the FULL route I did with big changes, he could just be more involved in the descision to stop being a warrior apprentice and it would be fine. Minor change that would make a world of difference.
I do also have to interject to say though... blindness should really not be an extremely severe impairment for a ThunderClan cat.
I'm dead serious.
Whiskers are built-in sensors that tell you the exact position of everything within several inches of your head, ears swerve to pick up sound, and the jacobson's organ provides a sense of smell so keen that I have an entire Clanmew expansion draft because I needed to make WORDS describing the power of this sense that humans do not have. I cannot stress enough how delicate their other senses are, felines do not rely on their sight like primates do
ThunderClan lives in a mixed-oak woodland, where sight is already often obscured by foliage, objects are close together (for whiskers to feel), and nearly every movement makes noise against the leaf litter. RiverClan and (moor-running) WindClan cats would have a harder time with this disability than Thunder or Shadow.
Cat sight SUCKS to begin with. It sucks BADDD. They don't have color vision, they're significantly nearsighted, and they can't track up-and-down movements well. WC doesn't write realistic cats (more like small fuzzy people really) and I also work with more humanesque eyesight, but the only thing Jay should really lose is an ability to rapidly track a small animal swerving fast. Blind cats are often still excellent hunters in spite of that!
So it's an extra big waste that they railroaded him into a position he didn't choose, saying he couldn't be a warrior. This is the perfect disability to write, if you want to explore how ableism can impact the characters in this society who ARE legitimately still capable of nearly full independence, but still need to find accommodations for what they can't do.
In the same arc they're doing the dumb Cinder Reincarnation Plotline, no less!! Where SHE is also feeling like she has no choice over her "destiny," and gets a conflict over a potentially disabling injury
"Oh nooo if cinderpaw breaks her leg she wont be a warrior!"
"What the f-- Im Jaypaw and im reporting live from the scene where a Category 1 Idiot Moment is taking place. Woman breaks leg, suddenly everyone believes she is a horse, more at 11."
One of these days I should really make "herb guides" just covering how various sensory disabilities impact the lives of Clan cats and some tips for writing them as warriors, especially between Clans. Stuff you wouldn't usually consider, like how much noise deaf cats tend to make, how RiverClan would get a ton of sinus infections and lose their sense of smell, being blind in Sky vs Thunder, etc.
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@general-illyrin @tar-thelien @who-needs-words I think you all mentioned being interested in the reverse gondolin au - is anyone interested in helping with wrangling the timelines, especially the second age stuff? Here's the current outline:
(Edit: anyone feel free to help out if you're interested!)
YT 14365 - Birth of Lomion
YT 14373/FA 1 - Death of Argon
FA
2 - Aredhel adopts Lomion
300 - Birth of Idril
316 - Turgon & Idril kidnapped by Eol
400 - Turgon & Idril rescued. Death of Eol
465 - Finrod more-peacefully passes throne to orodreth while on Quest. Everyone except beren still dies
472 - Nirnaeth. Turgon named High King of the Noldor.
476 - Turgon abdicates official title. Aredhel named High King of the Noldor.
496 - Tuor comes to Gondolin
502 - Wedding of Idril and Tuor
503 - Births of Earendil and Elwing. Idril begins to have foresight dreams about the Fall.
506 - Second Kinslaying. C^3 dead, celebrimbor stays in gondolin. Aredhel denounces the oath/kinslaying and disowns C^3
Elwing survives & is found by Oropher & Thranduil // Galadriel & Celeborn. oropher, thranduil, oropher's wife, and thranduil's then-gf // galadriel & celeborn take Elwing to Gondolin as refugees. The Silmaril is left hidden in the woods of melian's domain.
507 - Elwing comes to Gondolin.
509 - Idril captured by Morgoth. Idril reveals the location of Gondolin in exchange for an Oath to not harm her family (Turgon, Tuor, and Earendil). Idril rescued.
510 - Gondolin prepares for war with Morgoth.
513-522 - Siege of Gondolin. Deaths of Duilin and Rog. Gothmog slain by Aredhel the Huntress. First use of the Three Rings by Lomion and Celebrimbor in defense of Gondolin. House of the Hammer of Wrath destroyed.
523 - Maedhros believes a Silmaril is with Elwing at Gondolin.
525 - Earendil weds Elwing. Lomion weds ???. Adoption of Gil-Galad
532 - Births of Elrond and Elros.
538 - Third Kinslaying at Gondolin. Death of Amras. Elrond and Elros kidnapped by Maglor. Deaths of Elwing and Turgon. Second use of the Three Rings by Lomion and Celebrimbor. Deaths of Maedhros and Aredhel. Lomion named King of Gondolin and High King of the Noldor. Deaths of Salgant, Penlod, and Tuor. Earendil named Lord of the House of the Wing.
540-549 - War declared between Gondolin and the Feanorians of Himring over the Third Kinslaying and kidnapping of Princes Elrond and Elros.
549 - Elrond and Elros recovered. Feanorians and Gondolin severely weakened. Celebrimbor // Gil-Galad declared heir to the High Kingship.
552-554 - Second Siege & Fall of Gondolin. Third use of the Three Rings by Lomion and Celebrimbor. Deaths of Ecthelion, Glorfindel, Egalmoth, and Turgon. Idril and Celebrimbor lead survivors through the Secret Way.
555 - Gondolithlim refugees arrive at Sirion.
556 - Idril departs for Valinor.
558 - Earendil searches for Valinor.
560 - Havens of Sirion destroyed by Morgoth. Gondolithlim/Doriathrim survivors scattered. Elrond and Elros rescued (as adults) by Maglor.
572 - Morgoth controls Beleriand. Earendil and reembodied Elwing come to Valinor and rally the Host.
575-617 - War of Wrath
618 - Maglor claims the Silmaril from Eonwe's camp and casts himself into the Sea. Death of Maglor.
620 - End of the First Age.
SA
1 - Founding of the Grey Havens and Lindon under High King Lomion
2 - Elros becomes the first King of Numenor
c. 500 - Sauron returns to Middle-Earth in the East.
650 - Eregion is founded
1000 - Galadriel is given Vilya; Lomion wields Nenya
1170 - Annatar comes to Lindon and Lomion turns him away. Lomion warns Celebrimbor of Eregion of his suspicions.
1200 - Annatar comes to Eregion. Celebrimbor takes him in to monitor.
1250 - Celebrimbor creates the Seven; Lomion creates the Nine.
1410 - Annatar is kicked out of Eregion.
1600 - The One Ring is forged. Sauron remains in hiding.
1610 - Sauron begins to gather and prepare armies in the East.
1673 - War of the Elves and Sauron begins.
1675 - Sauron invades Eriador.
1677 - Fall of Ost-in-Edhil. Celebrimbor and Lomion remain at the House of the Mirdain. Death of Celebrimbor in battle // Fourth use of the Three in battle. Sauron does not learn of the Seven. Founding of Imladris.
1678 - Sauron defeated by the Numenoreans and the Elves of Lindon.
1679 - Sauron flees to Mordor. First White Council held.
3147 - Civil war in Numenor.
3225 - Ar-Pharazon seizes the Sceptre.
3228 - Elrond claims the Sceptre. Ar-Pharazon disowned. Tar-Miriel named Ruling Queen.
3232 - Sauron taken to Numenor as a prisoner.
3274 - Elrond kicks Sauron out of Numenor and outlaws the morgoth cult.
3310 - Morgoth cult publicly reappears.
3319 - Downfall of Numenor. Tar-Miriel leads a greater force of the Faithful away.
(green // blue means two main options, red means i need to think about it more)
The main details I'm figuring out right now are
does Celebrimbor still die at Eregion - I don't think he's getting captured/tortured, but he could still die in the battle. On the other hand, he could probably survive by using Narya & Lomion using Nenya, but that would definitely have repercussions further down the line
how does Idril's deal work - I'm currently thinking of Idril exchanging the location of Gondolin for her family's guaranteed safety, because it seems in character for Reverse Idril? But on the other hand, even if I limit it to immediate family at the time of the oath (tuor, turgon, earendil) then idk where turgon dies? Maybe Maglor can kill him but that seems kind of random
where and how does Turgon die
how does Prince Elrond's character even work
how does Numenor still fall when factoring in Prince Elrond - I'm thinking that the morgoth death cult gained enough traction during the time sauron was there that even after Elrond kicks him out, the cult still sticks around and reemerges later? The Fall still happens, but they never go to attack valinor and there's a good deal more Faithful (maybe 40-60%?)
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The thing about the Mindflayer lore in ST is that everything keeps contradicting itself. The First Shadow is apparently like "The Mindflayer possess Henry, it's an evil alien, it's in charge, Henry is just a pawn." and that makes sense with Dustin's S4 comment that Henry's the "five star general opening gates for it"...except Henry tells El/Nancy that he shaped the MF into the spider creature we know it as, and we know it actually does look like that from Will, so that seems to be true? And then Will says it's weird to know that the whole time it has been Henry that he's felt....as if he agrees with what he's been told by El/Nancy/the others and as if that suddenly makes things make sense?
And sure maybe the MF wants Henry to think he is in charge and Will might not be able to identify the thing he's been feeling and so simply believes when he's told that was Henry. After all they did make a point of how Dustin is usually right and has a knack for conceptualizing the supernatural (except Dustin keeps getting undermined by Steve who is right also. Dustin and Robin crack the code but Steve figures out the Russians broadcast from Hawkins, Dustin says he knows where Skull Rock is, but Steve leads them there, Dustin calls Steve stupid for suggesting Vecna is a vampire but he's right Vecna is a vampiric figure!)
But then why introduce Henry at all, when in S3 the MF already had personal beef with El and it was implied (or at least I interepreted it that way back then) that it was because she foiled its plans and closed the gate on it in S2. Then S4 goes actually maybe that was the moment Henry realized he was dealing with El and that whole thing was because of what happened in the lab back then. So what is the point of the Mindflayer?
Especially when in S1/2 the Mindflayer/Demogorgon/hivemind aren't being portrayed as evil aliens but as alien animals? Like yeah the demogorgon is a vicious predator but it's being compared to a shark, Jancy lure it with blood, it's hunting! And then in S2 they make a point of how the Lab is hurting the gate by burning it to keep it from spreading and so the hivemind burrows underground and then when Will is possessed and sends those soldiers to their death he says it was because they were hurting the hivemind (i don't remember if he says "it" "him" or "us", but the point stands). And Dustin is able to form a bond with Dart because that's just an animal! If you treat it kindly it will not attack you!
So it's like, who is in charge, Henry or the Mindflayer? Who is being used? What even is the Mindflayer like we're still not sure on that, are we?
Anyway I think I might just give up and say it's both and neither. Try to make sense of that
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