#by this I mean WWXs guilt

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

You can wash off the makeup, but the mascara still runs.

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#Poorly Drawn MDZS #MDZS #wei wuxian #season 1 #This is the scene in every highschool drama where the MC overhears someone talking abt them in the bathroom #I was trying to go for a 'your cringe' -esque crying face but i think ill save that for a cloud recess flashback #Yeah i could have added more context here #yeah im following rule of funny 99% of the time for this project #I love how this is set up without really going into too much detail about the past here. Its a secret torture tool for later angst #by this I mean WWXs guilt #Also; if im planning this correctly-this comic comes out the day of or the day after I have a funeral to attend so...me too buddy...me too. #Onwards to ep 3!

[grewlikefancyflowers]

unpopular opinion time but i'm thinking about how people are often like 'well the lans were at the pledge conference/siege too!!!' like yeah they were there because wen ning had killed multiple members of their clan in an unprovoked attack after they'd travelled to jinlin tai to defend him & wen qing ????

obviously the reader knows that wwx was not responsible for this (he was restrained all the way back in the burial mound). but the lans (and everyone else) has no idea. and at this point, to be honest, how can they reasonably be expected to question whether there's some misunderstanding or justification behind it?

i mean, wwx had wen ning kill four of the labour camp guards, in what the guards claim was an unprovoked and unjustified attack. when asked for an explanation, wwx's own sect leader does not dispute this, instead he publicly fights with wwx then declares to everyone that he is their enemy.

then jzx, and who-knows how many other jins are killed at qiongqi path. it's safe to assume that the jins did not make it public knowledge that they'd ambushed their own guest on his way to see them, and instead spun some other tale about it.

we don't know exactly what the lans thought of it, but we do know that they spoke up for the wen siblings. they obviously weren't willing to blindly follow the jins or condemn wwx & the wen remnants at this point. they only ever agreed to take any action against the burial mound settlement after wen ning had already killed several lans.

like idk i think it's fairly reasonable after two incidents or supposed unprovoked massacres and a third confirmed one to conclude that the guy behind it might actually have done all that. especially when the guy in particular has a reputation for mass, brutal killings and has made threats against them in the past 🤷🏻‍♀️

and i think it's a disservice to mdzs to read it through some 'society=bad' lens. like sure, we do see mob mentality and widespread hypocrisy and misplaced resentment against convenient targets. but the events of mdzs didn't just happen by accident ?? it was orchestrated by the most powerful in society to suit their own agendas.

fear and hatred of wwx was so widespread because jgs lied about him, because he had him ambushed and gave him no choice but to fight back. and because jc refused to support wwx's statements that they owed a debt to wn's branch of the wen sect & they hadn't participated in the war. and because jc withheld the truth about what happened to wen ning and why wwx released them and instead told everyone that wwx has made himself their enemy!!

i guess these arguments come about because people are defending wwx's actions at nightless city, but you don't need to paint the jianghu side as motivated purely by evil intentions in order for wwx to have done nothing wrong?? it doesn't matter if they had real justification to be there or not??

they all voluntarily agreed to attack him, he fought back, how could they expect anything else ?? they're not victims of the battle that they volunteered for & instigated. and if their army of 3000 or 5000 or whatever still isn't strong enough to defeat him then that's their problem, not wwx's lol.

#mdzs #i mean i don't think the lans or nie or whatever background sect or characters behaved perfectly but i just don't think they're comparable #the people who actively orchestrated wwx's downfall and death #aside from jzx the only time we see wwx feeling guilt about the deaths he caused was those lans at qiongqi path that's part of the reason #***jinlin tai not qiongqi path lol #he was so keen to avoid lwj at first and always summoned wen ning in secret #like i don't think post-canon wwx is gonna be getting mad at the lans for attending the pledge conference 😶 #mdzs meta

[least-carpet]

I am curious: how do you think would work realistically a jc and wwx's reconciliation? Have you any meta on them and their relationship?

I'm sorry this took a minute, anon! Work has been frankly chaotic. But I saw an anti-reconciliation post¹ and I have been roused from my post-work stupor.

Unfortunately, you asked me for something I'm incompetent at, which is plotting. (Otherwise I would have already unleashed my ningcheng fic upon the world.) What I can talk about is what I find compelling about potential reconciliation and potential scenarios.

Why do I love a post-canon reconciliation?

Apart from really liking their relationship and finding it compelling—IMO it's the heart of the narrative of the first life—what I actually enjoy about it is what it offers in terms of development for Wei Wuxian.

I read Wei Wuxian as having displaced and projected a lot of his unresolved trauma onto Jiang Cheng. I've talked a little before about my reading of Jiang Cheng as the "bad feelings" sin eater of the Yunmeng Trio—neither Jiang Yanli nor Wei Wuxian feel like they can express deep unhappiness, but Jiang Cheng is bad at hiding his, so in some way it's his job to embody the collective unhappiness of the children of that family system.

But although this makes Wei Wuxian merry and likeable, it's not actually good for anyone, or even sustainable—when he loses control, he really loses control. And his coping skills are extremely self-destructive, as we can see from the post-war downward spiral of drinking and avoidance. I also think his experiences in his childhood (losing his parents and being homeless) plus his wartime experiences gave him some kind of trauma disorder that contributes to his terrible memory, which he's turned into his primary coping mechanism (apart from alcohol). If I Simply Close My Eyes And Run Away, My Bad Feelings Can't Get Me!

But, like, repressing your feelings doesn't work forever. He's compartmentalized his whole first life to function in the second one, but that means giving up on everything and everyone he loved, including the Jiang siblings and Lotus Pier. That's incredibly tragic to me.

Sometimes I think antis are so happy to demonize Jiang Cheng in order to minimize the depth of the loss Wei Wuxian has suffered. If he never loved Jiang Cheng, if they were never close and devoted to one another, if their childhood was an unending misery, then wouldn't Wei Wuxian be much freer in the present?

But what I think has happened is that the loss is so huge that it's completely terrifying and threatening. So are the feelings around killing Jin Zixuan, Jiang Yanli's death, and the death of Wen Qing and the Wen remnants. It's too much, so he blocks it out or, in some cases, projects it onto Jiang Cheng.

Of course, Jiang Cheng will never forgive him, because he irreparably ruined Jiang Yanli's life and then she died trying to save him and Jin Ling became an orphan. It's all his fault; it can't be forgiven; he might as well give up on it...

Jiang Cheng is obviously very angry and upset with him, it's true. But you can see how projecting his guilt and shame over his actions onto Jiang Cheng and then running away from Jiang Cheng is also a way for him to escape his guilt and shame over what happened to Jiang Yanli. (And to escape all the repressed resentment he has for Jiang Cheng because of the core transfer.²)

But there are two tragic elements of this approach. One, that by doing this he yields up any possible relationship with Jiang Cheng, and with the Jiang Sect, because by all means Wei Wuxian must escape him in order to outrun his terrible feelings. Two, that it's another coping mechanism that distorts the reality of the situation, which is that they were all swept up in power games beyond their capacity to manage, and they did their best—the Jiang siblings, the Wen siblings, Jin Zixuan, and Wei Wuxian—and it still went badly for everyone except the Jin Sect.

I don't think he can confront that yet. But I do think that Wei Wuxian feels very safe with Lan Wangji, and sometimes a safe and supportive relationship can provide the resources to do things you didn't think you could do before.

Can you imagine a different conversation, that begins with the bald acknowledgement of failure and wrongdoing³? "I never meant for all of that to happen. I did what I thought was right, but I never thought Jiang Yanli would be harmed, and I didn't intend to kill Jin Zixuan. I am so sorry. I miss her."

GIVE THE CATHARSIS TO ME. GIVE IT HERE.

A Wei Wuxian who has reached a point where he's capable of that accountability and vulnerability is delicious to me. A Wei Wuxian who can get there can return to Lotus Pier and rebuild a relationship with the living sect and his living sect brother.

How could it happen?

The trick is how to get there, 'cause it's like trying to herd cats where one cat is mortally afraid of facing the second and the other one has betrayal trauma and abandonment issues. But the cats love each other! They do!

I don't see Jiang Cheng initiating. I see him as being more open to a reconciliation, now that he knows why Wei Wuxian did what he did, but I see him as being profoundly afraid of trapping people in relationship with him or inflicting himself on people who don't want him around. (Not, like, for politics. In that arena I assume he's unpleasant when necessary to great effect.)

Fortunately, Wei Wuxian can be led if you're cunning enough to do it and you bait the trap with something good (see the plot of MDZS for Nie Huaisang's very successful demonstration of this principle). He also will increase pursuit if you dangle and withdraw the bait.

The question, of course, is what makes good bait for catching Wei Wuxian. Some options:

Option 1: murder mystery. Someone dies in an exciting way that involves Jiang Cheng. (Wei Wuxian will involve himself, dude loves a murder mystery.) It could be in the Jiang Sect or the Jin Sect; if it involves Jin Ling, Jiang Cheng will jump in with a swiftness.

Option 2: Jiang Cheng marriage rumours. Doesn't even have to involve unsavoury rumous about the potential wife; Jiang Cheng getting married without him (like Jiang Yanli) would dredge up some feelings, I think.

Option 3: Jiang Cheng tragic illness or curse rumours. You better be sure it was in a past life, cause it looks like this one might be over soon!

Option 4: Forced together time (due to a night hunt or a kidnapping, etc.). It's time for the getting along shirt!

To borrow from SVSSS, you might need a scenario-pusher for it to happen. But the world of MDZS is rife with these opportunities, and cultivators can live a very long time. So there's hope yet!

Footnotes:

1. This is a perfectly reasonable viewpoint to come to by the end of the novel. It's simply one I don't share.

2. See this passage from the confrontation in the Guanyin Temple:

"It wasn’t something he liked to reminisce about. He didn’t want to be reminded again and again of what it felt like when his core was cut out or what price he had to pay. If this were exposed in the past, he’d most likely laugh and comfort Jiang Cheng … But now, he indeed didn’t have the strength left to put up such a confident, nonchalant pretense.

From the bottom of his heart, he knew he wasn’t so indifferent about it after all.

Was it really that easy to move on from such a thing?

Of course not." (Chapter 103, "Hatred," ExR translation)

3. I saw a different post complaining about Wei Wuxian apologizing to Jiang Cheng in reconciliation scenarios, and I just, like, he kicked off a political firestorm that ended in the death of Jiang Yanli and her husband. This is completely separate from the non-consensual surgery and all the lying he was doing about that. He owes him multiple different apologies! And Jiang Cheng should also apologize to him! That's why they apologize to each other in the Temple, because they know they hurt each other! The point of an apology in an intimate relationship is to connect with the person you are apologizing to in order to repair the relationship, and the Temple was not the time, which is why they need a private do-over! It's not humiliation, it's intimacy, connection, and repair. How do y'all live your lives.

3.5 Also, imagine it to be more in-character than that.

#anon asks #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #yunmeng shuangjie #chengxian #yunmeng shuangjie reconciliation #mdzs + #meta #least-carpet thoughts

[runespoor7]

Jiang Cheng brings back WWX to LP after his resurrection because LWJ wasn't around

Five Fun Facts About The Fic I Might Write About It, This Is A Slowburn(?) Version, For Other Versions Ask Again:

WWX insists that he's not himself far past the point of it being sensible. The thing is, it's not the first time JC decided some random demonic cultivator was WWX and dragged him home to demande apologies and play house? Last time was over half a decade ago, so not everyone in the sect knows, but those who remember are pretty wary about it, especially because of what it means about JC's mental state. Is Sect Leader getting worse again? They're also very wary of WWX, some of them openly contemptuous - WWX has the feeling that if it weren't for JC's protection he would be dead - and some of them almost pitying. I think he overhears them talk and that's how he pieces together the backstory, and also learns that the demonic cultivator whom JC is convinced are WWX and that he treats as such don't... end well. Sect Leader takes the "betrayal" badly.

WWX realizes that YMJ doesn't have a second in command. the sect has a person who performs the tasks associated with the job, but JC doesn't have a "second-in-command", never did. it just stuck that way. it sure doesn't mean anything. probably. how weird of JC though.

the Ghost General intrudes on Lotus Pier. There's a fight, JC tries to take down WN, WWX orders WN away from JC, JC freaks out. WWX keeps swearing up and down he's not WWX, honest!!! but... on the other hand... the Ghost General recognizes him as its his master... this is what breaks JC's hopes, finally, and also WWX's heart. You get JC crying as he asks WWX "are you really not him?" and WWX doing the equivalent of Cyrano's "No, my sweet love, I never loved you!" but for who he is, with less clear-cut emotional consequences than in the play (this is because WWX is not dying and thus more invested in keeping the lie up and JC is way less certain that WWX cares about him than Roxane did about Cyrano). They sort of compromise on the understanding that "MXY" is kinda-sorta WWX, but without most of WWX's memories. (WWX is telling himself that's not what he wanted but in fact he's much more comfortable/confident with himself and being in YMJ afterwards!) this is probably when WWX realizes that while his room may not exist anymore, his things are in JC's room.

JC struggles with this WWX being an innocent lamb who has no memory of doing anything wrong in his life ever. He should've expected it. How convenient. But, y'know, a WWX is a WWX, and this also extremely conveniently lets JC off the hook of this pesky "remember how he orphaned your nephew?" thing! It's mostly JC's own guilt now. Mostly. He's not going to do anything against WWX even if it wasn't anyway. Also it's. terrifying. Because WWX has no memory of him, but WWX is around, and also there isn't anyone to judge JC for wanting-- ANYWAY.

They end up having to leave Lotus Pier and catch up with the main plot when WWX gets a spider sense that WN is in trouble. There are no words to explain how little JC likes 1)that the Ghost General is still a thing, 2)that the Ghost General is still a thing when it comes to WWX, 3)that WWX is planning on leaving LP to help WN, so he comes with. WWX tries to convince him not to, but surprises himself by accepting JC's help when JC insists in a clipped tone. The trouble that WN got in also involves JL being in danger. This is my fic so it would turn out that WN tried to protect JL before WWX and JC caught up. Possibly JL and WN have been getting in plot-relevant shenanigans offscreen for a while now, and there's definitely a fic there, what with WN thinking A-Yuan is dead and projecting on JL and JL getting conflicted feelings about the person/thing that killed his father, but that's not the focus in this story. At some point - because by now he's pretty certain JC will not either kill him or reject him - WWX "admits" that his memory has been returning. Not all of it, but enough. If we're all very very lucky JL has been in sufficient danger that JC can lose his head a little and kiss WWX for saving JL's life, or something along these lines. If we're not lucky that part happens beyond the scope of these five things.

#chengxian #this might in fact be all pre-slash ☠️ #ask answered

[whumpbby]

Hehe, I am thinking that JC got tangled in some shenanigans that keep following Wei Wuxian, and in effect got sent to some other dimension where everything is the same but isn't.

And now WWX has to go and retrieve him - and for that ends up going through quite a few realities in a "Where isy my shidi?" adventure that places him face to face with a variety of Jiang Chengs and his own feelings of shame, guilt, love and anger towards his shidi.

He sees a Jiang Cheng who have lost their core and a one that didn't, ones that reclaimed his sect and one that was enslaved by Wen Zhuliu as some sick standin for his mom. One that saved Yanli and sacrificed his sect and one that never forgave Wei Wuxian (ohz so that's how his actual hate feels) and one that got over WWX's death and forgot (and that's how indifference feels, Wei Wuxian hates it!). There is a reality where JC didn't get a replacement core and Wei Wuxian was the Jiang Sect Leader who kept him under lock and key (and that Jiang Cheng was miserable, but didn't want to run away, as long as his Wei Wuxian loved him still...).

There is one where Jiang Cheng is married to Lan Xichen and they have kids??? (Wei Wuxian hates it! Hates it! Hates it!!! ....just can't explain why... His shidi would never...right? And what does it mean Jiang Cheng gave birth to the kids?? Oh gods, he never wants to have Lan Xichen sit him down for a sex talk ever again>_<!!! The alpha/omega sex sure is something!) That world unsettled him the most. How is it that Jiang Cheng is happily married here? How is it that Lan Xichen chose him to marry??? Doesn't he mind the awful personality and constant anger? His shidi is very pretty and great, and strong, but he is just like his mom and... Lan Xichen almost slaps him in the head in that universe. Which is scary, because Lan Xichen never gets angry to Wei Wuxian's memory. And on account of a joke? Wei Wuxian doesn't get it.

"If you stopped looking at him and trying to see his mother instead of the boy you grew up with." The big alpha tells him. "Then you'd understand."

And uh, yeah, that one kinda....stung a bit. Maybe that reality wasn't that bad - for Jiang chengttonhave someone who cared for him and understood him. For his shidi to have family again, one that loved him as he should be loved even if it didn't include Wei Wuxian. Even if his shidi had to birth babies and take that monstrous Lan pillar...(he hated it, hated it, heated it!!!)

It's still better, however, than the one reality Wei Wuxian stepped into that just... Didn't have Jiang Cheng of its own. One where he died at the hands of Wen Chao, where the Sunshot Campaign never even got off the ground, because their Wei Wuxian burned the Wen to the ground and salted the ashes. There's no Lan Sizhui there, no Wen Ning. Wen Quing died under his hands like all the others. There's no Yunmeng Jiang. Just Wei Wuxian full of rage and the world that lives in fear of him. What a miserable existence.

He left that world as fast as he could, sick to his stomach.

On the quest to reclaim his precious shidi.

#mdzs #headcanon #jiang cheng #wei wuxian

[dilfyjilfy]

I'm probably gonna catch some hate for this, but I've never really understood the emotional attachment people seem to have towards the wen remnants, for multiple reasons. Just to start, some adaptations are admittedly better at establishing that emotional connection than others. Imo, the donghua wen remnants are probably the most forgettable

It always feels wrong whenever the wen remnants get described as these poor, weak, completely innocent people. For one, the wen remnants were still largely cultivators. They may not have been on the front lines of the war, but saying that they were innocent seems a bit ridiculous. There are other ways to contribute to a war effort that don't involve combat. Wen Qing was a head doctor. If you don't think that she was actively participating in healing the wen soldiers that were involved in combat, then what do you think she was doing the whole time? That's like saying a basketball player being put on the bench during a game means they're no longer on the team. And even if they had no real contribution towards Wen Ruohan during the war, I feel like their complicity was contribution enough. Maybe it somehow escaped my knowledge, but I've never heard of any wen remnants helping any of the other sects during the Sunshot Campaign (taking on jobs as spies, sharing supplies, deserting, etc...). It's more likely that they sat by and watched Wen Ruohan and the rest of their sect participate in deeds that they knew were wrong, but did nothing to stop it. It's in the same way that it feels wrong when people praise Wen Ning and Wen Qing for helping wwx, when they only helped after they sat by and did nothing to stop the massacre of ymj. It's just weird to praise them for not participating in the killing, when all they did was avert their eyes when the killing was going on. And if the shoe was on the other foot, and Wen Ruohan had won the Sunshot Campaign, do you think that they would have turned their back on the sect, or stayed silent and complicit, and reaped the benefits of the won war?

If your reaction to any of what I said was "well, how do you expect them to have taken a stand, they were weaker than the other wens?", why can you make that excuse for the wen remnants, but not ymj and jc? What power did he have to fully protect a group of people who largely turned a blind eye to his and his sects' suffering? And that wasn't even why he couldn't fully support them, either. That had everything to do with the safety of his own sect, and his own people who had stood by him through tragedy and war

I'm also not saying that they deserved to die, or that I was happy that they died, I just feel like their deaths were something they were resigned to, and that I wouldn't be surprised if any the guilt and resentment they carried had a lot to do with being powerless, not just in the aftermath of the war, but during it as well

It's part of the reason why I interpret the blood pool scene from the 2nd seige, especially in the donghua, differently than the typically seen "the wen remnants are better people than the cultivation world because they helped protect the people that killed them" , but rather as "the remnants are protecting the other sects from danger in a way they had been unable to do when they were alive"(they had been unable to protect the other sects from wen rouhan)

I feel like i could have explained this better, but I think that's enough rambling for now

#jiang cheng #mo dao zu shi #the untamed #I'll limit the character tags on this one to (hopefully) stop any uglies from starting problems🤣

[lansplaining]

Sorry if I ask but can you explain to me wwx's development character? I know I came as stupid but I can't see it😭😭. He doesn't even say sorry to jzx for killing him one time and he prefers to hide to lxc about sisi so he doesn't 'make the wrong choice'. I feel like he doesn't grow a lot...

this is actually such an interesting question and something i've been thinking about a lot since I finally finished my re-read of the final volume.

i don't think that wei wuxian undergoes what western readers at least-- i'm not qualified to speak for other traditions-- would expect from a protagonist's journey of growth. and, like i was talking about earlier today, it's certainly not a journey of growth that rests on a christian concept of 'redemption' through confession, atonement, or apology for the sins of your past.

wei wuxian is absolutely aware in the present timeline that his yiling patriarch phase was intense to say the least. he comments on having probably taken it too far re: the wen corpses he weaponized, and he cringes to see the way he struts around and publicly defies jiang cheng. when he first returns to life, he wants to just fuck off and ignore everything, but quickly realizes that he can't separate himself from the past, either practically or emotionally-- a step of growth!

but wei wuxian spends the entire novel in a state of denial so profound that he can't even directly confront, much less move on or grow from, the things he did in the past. he can't apologize in his head for killing jin zixuan because that would mean really thinking about what that meant and letting those emotions come back. he just keeps running from jiang cheng because deciding jiang cheng hates him is easier than opening his mind and heart to all the other things jiang cheng might be feeling and might have felt because of his actions. he can't make a real choice about what to tell lan xichen because that might require stopping and really thinking about where his consistent determination to make choices on other people's behalf has gotten him, and whether they were ever really better off for it.

a different story would be about wei wuxian confronting and thus working through and growing and changing because of these things-- but MDZS isn't that story. i'm not saying he doesn't develop as a protagonist, but the ways that he grows and changes are primarily about his relationship to lan wangji-- and in true MXTX fashion, the things that the primary couple feel for one another don't tend to extend into other areas of their lives or apply to other people. wei wuxian can confront the things lan wangji did for him, and his feelings of guilt about that-- and thus he can move on from them, he can wipe the slate clean. there's no need for thank you and sorry, we don't have to think about the past anymore, we just need each other in the present. it works for a romance, especially the specific terms of wangxian's romance, but denial is rarely a great route for increasing one's understanding of oneself.

#ask answered

[evilhasnever]

(I got a very interesting ask on CC and I want to elaborate more because I answered it very briefly at the time)

First of all, I don’t think the coffin ending is just or deserved for either nmj or jgy - and I don’t think shoving lxc into it makes it any better, or gives any sort of closure. I do think that in some moments of despair Lan Xichen may have wished to be dead as well, but that has nothing to do with a desire to “be with them” (being buried with two non-sentient corpses who are fighting in a horrifying way for a century is not really ideal) and more with a desire to escape his guilt about stabbing JGY. [as an aside I also think the coffin is very much a convenient plot device to tie up all loose ends neatly so wangxian need not to worry about it in the happy ending, and people give it sometimes more significance than intended, but that’s just my personal interpretation!]

Anyway! Grief is irrational, of course, so Lan Xichen may think he wants to die and be torn apart by corpse monsters for a minute there, but he will never do it, and you know why? Because A-Yao saved his life. It is narratively understandable that Lan Xichen, a symbol of hope throughout the story, has his Hope snuffed out at the end and we are left unsure whether he will ever be able to recover. But he simply can’t die, because A-Yao pushed him away to let him live!

So that leaves option B - live on with guilt and regrets and, ideally, do something about it. Where you take this is up to you (Protect the watchtowers? Just try to do good by orphans and commoners? Become immortal to wait for that century to pass?) but I just want to append a note that I don’t think resurrecting JGY necessarily means going to the dark side! Save for, well, in the literal sense i.e. demonic cultivation. ;)

also damn, WWX is right there. Maybe in 10-20 years he’ll get bored enough to decide to do a good deed for Lan Xichen’s 50th birthday or something. God knows he deserves it.

#Jgy tag #ask box #sort of #shhh shiome #Xiyao #Lan xichen #coming out as a coffin hater

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Hello!

"No honestly, they act like the only way to be able to engage with Chinese works is to comprehend it only by what western story arcs and thematics are! Like what the hell, it is audaciously xenophobic and racist to deny that these works do and can be on a separate sphere of what philosophy is in other cultures. And it's just demeaning especially with how forceful they are when they post things that say anything about "being sinful" when Buddhism doesn't even have a concept close to sin! Even what are considered crimes and a rejection of dharma is the concept of a rejection of refusing the natural law of the universe which in itself is not at all comparable to the idea of the guilt usually meant to be associated with sin."

I agreed with this.

So I want to ask, do you know where can I find more about types of Chinese story arcs and thematics in various genres?(not only wuxia/xianxia)

The sin comparisons are ODD. How to explain that WWX's YLLZ actions don't really contradict him being a moral ideal?(everyone says they do...)

I also read some comments about how WWX's story arc felt unsatisfying. For me it was perfectly satisfying,but I don't know how to explain WHY.

Hello anon.

So I want to ask, do you know where can I find more about types of Chinese story arcs and thematics in various genres?(not only wuxia/xianxia)

Mmmm, depends on what sort you may want, for outside of Wuxia/Xianxia that are translated main stream to English or English Diaspora I would recommend the following:

THE WEDDING PARTY BY LIU XINWU: Auntie Xue’s son, Jiyue, is getting married in December of 1982 after the Bei Jing Revolution. Takes place in several different points of view from the groom, bride, chef and party attendants.

TO LIVE BY YU HUA: The spoiled son of a landlord, Xu Fugui, squanders his family’s entire fortune. Xu Fugui lives throughout the years spanning the revolutionary changes and japanese-sino wars of 1930s-1960's.

HERO BORN BY JIN YONG: The very first book out of 12 for Legend of the Condors and from one of the most well known wuxia writers from when the genre took off in the 1950's

I LIVE IN THE SLUMS BY CAN XUE: Collection of short stories from different character perspectives about urban life that approaches chinese life and tradition from what is considered radical than the norm

THE RADIANT EMPEROR DUALOGY BY SHELLEY PARK-CHAN: Historical fantasy of 14th century China, the mandate of heaven is a literal flame granted to the next emperor. Two children, Zhu Chongba and Ouyang become embroiled within the political backdrop of the Ming dynasty and touches on heavy themes of gender identity and sexuality.

As for the idea Wei Wuxian's story arc was unsatisfying, don't know what to say, most xianxia and wuxia protagonists/heroes do get their happy ends unless it is meant to be tragic, but these usually as a genre are not meant to be tragic endings for the leads. It's kind of like expecting Lord of The Rings to be tragic in end for Frodo who was left to his own peace by leaving Middle Earth. Sometimes you'll be personally unhappy with a arc end. This does not mean execution of storytelling was lacking or weak on author part. If it cleanly and thematically reflects that end, it's a personal problem unfortunately and not a work or genre for you perhaps.

These are not written with the concept of sin or the traditional idea of redemption exposed to within western texts. Doaist Buddhism is not on the same philosophical standing as Christian redemption or tellings. Samsara are able to be a complete new start, Sin does not follow in after life or new life within samsara cycles, the point is that you can always remove the self from the suffering of human vice and obsession to ascend above what humanity is.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #book recs

[wutheringskies]

I find this interesting in mdzs posts on Tumblr. Once the profile pic or background pic on their blog is either Xue Yang, JGY, or CQL pictures, then the post they wrote must be "The MC of mdzs is not morally that good, the reason is bla bla blah. To make flaws in the MC they went to the extent of victimizing the Perpetrators mainly Wen Chao and QishanWen Cultivators who'd chosen to join the war, a war to oppress other sects and slaughter them if they were to defy.

Don't you think that pattern resembles MDZS world? If you find someone spreading rumors and distorting facts about WWX it must be from the Jin. After the war ended, The Mobs actually accused WWX of killing too much (Wen Cultivators) during the war, in the occasion of talking about WWX freeing the real innocent Wen Remnants from LanlingJin's true war crime. The Irony and Ridiculousness are so thick. But that actually came into being in real life on their fans. How amusing was that?? Like Idols like fans. There really are people like that in real life...even MianMian can't put up with such mobs.

Excellent point, anon.

I always feel that MXTX's stories - specifically, MDZS and TGCF do a great job at presenting in the bounds of fiction, a real society. In our sort of society, those who are kind, are also often foolish. Those who are brave, are treated as rebels. In our world too; minorities are treated with suspicion and hostility. Systems aren't set down in rules; the rules can be changed by those who hold power; those who constitute the majority. Most of the people in this world listen along to the flute of him who is most powerful. Most people are mob-like. They don't help, but they criticize those who do for not doing enough. They don't like putting themselves into difficult positions. Even if they feel sympathy, they never act on it. They treat outliers as scandalous; they just wish to be accepted in any community, and put down all voices of reason, and pleas, to act like a banded group; like a bunch of 'teen mean girls.'

That is the sort of world MDZS is based in. In such a world, there are two idealistic people with solid morals - Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian, and this is the story of coming to peace with such a world and finding each other. I strongly feel that if one tries to justify an antagonist's actions; they rob themselves of the experience of reading a book which subtly, yet strongly pokes at how corrupt power structures, social hierarchies are; and how terrible it is to not examine the information you are presented with.

We are well aware that Jin Guangyao is a villain. Yet, saying that he is just evil at the root, two-faced and a vengeful, lying snake isn't enough. We must consider into account the nature of society - the untouchability that he faced; the humiliation, the rejection, the plea of a boy to buy out his mother's freedom. But note, that these difficulties aren't meant to free him of his guilt, but rather to add nuance to his character. Jin Guangyao is a victim of society, and on gaining power, he is one of those who stand atop the social ladder and cause harm to those below; and when he falls to the bottom, it is the same people who once held him as powerful, kind and benevolent that spread truths, rumours and secrets about him. Thus, the people probably had hints of what he does; yet they considered him of good standing until it was no longer beneficial; until they could turn the tables around and throw him down. Then they turn into his enemies.

This is not to absolve Jin Guangyao of his guilt, but to make us uncomfortable with how society is. I recall this line by Wei Wuxian - "How cheap is your hatred, and how cheap was your admiration."

Similarly, Jiang Cheng is an antagonist. He's a safe sect leader; never taking fights he can't win. Thus, he turns a blind eye to all injustice that would harm his position by putting him at odds with other powers and even encourages it. Social hierarchy allows him to whip up innocent people and not pay back his debts. As he's in a more privileged position than many others, being the literal sect heir of a major clan, he can retain the right to be upset, angry and hurt over whatever he chooses, whether or not his feelings were drawn on valid instances.

For some reason, this fandom falls into the same cycle of reading the book as if they're a civilian in the MDZS world, rather than a reader, containing an omnipresent point-of-view and analytical skills to understand whether the information presented is reliable or not. Perhaps, it is due to their in-built classism, where they are born and raised in places where they are allowed to exaggerate their pains beyond necessity. Perhaps, it is because they are readers who grew up on a bunch of material that is targeted at being 'relatable.' Since MDZS is similar to our world, there are plenty of people who hold sympathy but never act on it, care but not enough, cannot show it, or people who grow resentful. On the other hand, moral ideals like Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are rare. Thus, they cannot relate to these two. What they can't relate to, or cannot understand - they make up narratives to bring them down to 'their' level by framing their righteous actions as wrong, morally incorrect or selfish to make the characters 'more complex' and thus, relatable, and thus, digestible.

Another reason for condemning the main leads comes from the more genuine lack of understanding of the setting and the themes. I've been raised with Indian literature and I found Chinese literature sharing similarities. The protagonist isn't someone you should 'relate' to but someone whom you can idolize, and hold in high regard; someone from whom you can learn to become better. Society isn't generally kind, and love isn't what the characters are after; whether it be platonic, familial, romantic or parental.

Thus, Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are fine with just being together, despite their feelings being reciprocated or not. Of course, when you're a child, you are prone to jealousy and anger. But when you mature, it isn't like that - they aren't possessive of each other. Their love lies first and foremost in sharing the same ideals, the same path, the same search for truth and knowing each other inside out even when the world frames you as this or that. That is the greatest act of love for them. Just like that, Wei Wuxian didn't give his core up due to brotherly love, but a sense of responsibility. Love isn't something that exists; but something that is borne, something that grows between two characters.

Yet people don't even understand things like this; they make Lan Wangji petty and Wei Wuxian some sort of manwhore flirt. They don't understand that in xianxia and wuxia, the dead are an entity, just like the living. The body, the soul, the resentment - all are different parts of the same being. Not all souls can be liberated, thus the end result is having to kill those souls, but Wei Wuxian's cultivation uses their resentful energy to do his bidding, and liberate them. Instead of mindlessly killing, he kills with aim. Even highly resentful fierce corpses can be neutralized. Yet, people think it's his cultivation that is his dissent. They say he killed Wen Chao wrongly. I only feel that they haven't read much Asian literature. If you let vermins go then they will come and bite you in the foot.

Honestly, there is so much wrong with fanon interpretations. It is literally a different book that they are reading. If these were only fun, fanon comics, it would be fine, but these are their actual interpretations upon reading the novel. How far are interpretations valid until you literally ruin the book? It's like being in a fandom where the author wrote a book about cats being lovely, but instead of that, people debate which cat character was more evil.

But, well, I always just think such people are Sect Leader's Yao's followers. Haha. I have no issue with those who like XY, JGY, or JC - but at least like their canon selves, lmao? Or even if you wish to make them more sentimental, that is okay, but don't drag the actual moral ideals to their level, you know?

Well, this got pretty long! But thank you anon for this wonderful ask. I got to rant a lot.

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs #canon mdzs #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wangxian #canon jiang cheng #my meta #lan zhan #jin guangyao #xue yang #mxtx

[zykamiliah]

There's a line from a Mili song that I feel encapsulates a lot of QiJiu. It's "You were right, the ones who gravitate towards self-sacrifice are the most, are the most selfish ghosts" from Dancing Ghost's Ball Jointed Darling. I think that SJ and YQY both want the other to live, even if it's without them. The difference is that SJ will lie to himself about that because he'd much prefer to keep YQY with him then not. YQY on the other hand is so used to taking on the weight of other's that he doesn't really see himself as having a use if he's not stuck being a pillar for others. He knows SJ wouldn't be happy carrying the weight with him so he keeps taking on more and more of SJ's actions as his own guilt in a twisted way of protecting him. SJ want's them to be equals and YQY want's to be SJ's shield no matter what it costs himself. SJ doesn't have the emotional knowledge to be able to actually accurately describe his own feelings I think, he's in such a base sense of paranoia that he can't trust anything that YQY or anyone else does for him. Sorry for the ramble, I just feel like both the lack of communication between them and WWX & JC is more complicated then other's think and it's not a matter of morality. They are all really complicated characters and I feel like reducing them to villain and hero doesn't do the story any favors.

setting aside the differences between qijiu and wwc and jc's relationship, i agree with you on this.

i think a big takeaway from mxtx's novels is that most characters can't be defined by binaries (with some exceptions): they are people making choices. sometimes those choices hurt people, and that's what you learn first: the bad choices. then mxtx shows you were the characters come from, and you can sympathize with them, yet still there is a point where the characters, regardless of their backstory, consciously take a path of hurting others (and themselves, inevitably) that's what actually condemned them. but the thing is, you can point to any moment of that backstory and say "see, if this had been different, maybe they wouldn't made that choice". they're tragic characters because their circumstances were unfortunate, and those circumstances doomed them to make terrible choices; then, at the same time, those were their conscious choices. they had agency.

you can see all that play out in qijiu and their messy, complicated relationship. one can understand why they made those choices, even if we disagree with them. even the most selfless action can turn selfish and vice versa. you can love someone and hurt them. you can love someone and lash out at them because there's unhappiness and anger inside you. and the worldview of people with self-worth issues tends to twist to fit those believes.

i think you mention something that's actually really important and that neither side of qijiu have the emotional knowledge to express themselves in another way; i'd add that they never had a chance to learn how to do it, and specially sj, who had two major bad influences in his life that he ended up emulating, consciously or not. i'd also add that in the "dog eats dog" world that's pidw, sj, someone who grew up in the streets, must have the belief of "survival of the fitness", and because his experiences, appearing weak or letting others step over him (from his point of view) feels like a threat to him. he's paranoid about losing, because losing means his way of surviving is threatened. in that context, someone that puts themselves in danger to protect him or back him becomes precious. sj may be power-hungry, petty, jealous, mean, aggressive and vitriolic, but he is steadfastly loyal to the ONLY person that has shown to care for him selfless and unconditionally; and he'll be like that in return. but after what he perceives as a betrayal, his feelings for yqy are complicated. he resents him but loves him, thus he doesn't know where he stands and the only thing he's sure about is that yqy feels guilty and indebted and he'll push and push to see how much yqy is willing to take for this debt he has to him.

i also think that yqy should have been harder on sj irt what sj did as a peak lord. more that trying to coax him, he should have put he foot down about what sj did to lbh and not just passively and sadly allow it to happen, no matter that sj had the authority over qjp. because of his guilt and his love and his pity for sj, he allowed what he shouldn't. even out of love and pity bad choices are made. he had a better grasp on what's right or wrong and that something like abusing disciples would eventually bite sj in the ass (Karma), so it wasn't as he didn't know. and this type of relationship is something that happens in real life, particularly in parent-child relationships where the parent pities the child to the point that they let the child do whatever they want and just apologize in their stead. in the long run it ends up hurting the child more.

but even yqy choices i can understand, because i know where yqy comes from. and i think that's the point: just understanding the big spectrum of human experience that can be expressed through this characters, understanding the characters and seeing things from their point of view. if mxtx didn't want us to see that, she would have done like airplane and just chop off the backstories.

i ended up rambling too haha :3

#svsss #svsss meta #ask zy #shen jiu #yue qingyuan #original shen qingqiu #zykamiliah-svsss

[wangxianficrecs]

Dead Languages by chinuplipup

Dead Languages

by chinuplilpup

G, 16k, WIP, lwj & wwx, wen remnants

Summary: “Second young master Lan! Young master Wei was turned into a child, the one that you saw just now. It’s a spell or a curse, we don’t know! And—” Wen Ning stops talking, because his sister has him by the ear. - Deep in the Burial Mounds, the small, struggling Qishan Wen sect has a problem. A very small problem.

Mojo's comments: Wwx is about 5 when lwj returns to the Burial Mounds, and running about with a-yuan. But he's still got shadows, insecurities from the only time he remembers (being homeless and alone). And lwj feels inadequate and under-prepared, and his interactions with young wei ying are so endearingly awkward. I hope author comes back to finish the final chapter someday. (3/4 so far). Lwj seems headed for a revelation that he needs to start actively helping wwx and the Remnants.

Kay's comments: Absolutely heart-wrenching story about de-aged Wei Wuxian during the Burial Mounds Settlement days. It's a canon-divergence stories where the Wens have already been living there for a couple of years and Lan Wangji has been visiting once or twice a year. As he encounters de-aged Wei Wuxian, he finally understands that maybe visiting once or twice a year with some gifts wasn't as much help as he had thought and that there were many things he never learned about Wei Wuxian. My heart always aches for child Wei Wuxian and the thinking about the years he had spent on the streets, so this story was very ache-inducing in the best possible way! And Wen Yuan and Wei Ying bonding as children is also just so perfect.

Excerpt: Wei Ying says in a small voice, “Okay.” Lan Wangji frowns. He never thought he would hear Wei Ying respond to a rule or a limit placed on him with quiet surrender. Not even at age fifteen with the Lan discipline whip as his encouragement! It’s expected for small children to be somewhat shy, and Wei Ying certainly didn’t have an ordinary, safe childhood, but to think Wei Ying was once this timid child, constantly restraining himself from what he wants...

Excerpt²: Lan Wangji stays bent at the waist. His hair falls over his shoulder, obscuring part of his face. He says, “Thank you for taking care of Wei Wuxian.” He means to add “when I couldn’t,” but a wave of guilt about his own inadequacies overruns him and chokes the words in his throat. Has he ever been able to take care of Wei Ying? Has he protected him, helped him, has he offered anything other than warnings and criticism—not just in the past two years, but in all of their acquaintance? He thinks of the song that he finished as a teenager, that he practically tore his fingertips perfecting and that he played for Wei Wuxian once. Is that all? It can’t be only that, but Lan Wangji can’t recall anything else. Several visits per year to the Burial Mounds with an armful of loquats or a few bottles of chili oil and spirit-calming songs—none of that seems like anything anymore.

canon-divergence, yiling wei sect, age regression/de-aging, de-aged wei wuxian, fluff, hurt/comfort, ghosts, autistic lan wangji, burial mounds settlement days, pov lan wangji, anxious wei wuxian, awkard lan wangji, malnutrition, @thebestestbat

~*~

(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)

#Wangxian Fic Rec #The Untamed #wangxian #MDZS #Mojo's Rec #Kay's Rec #canon-divergence #yiling wei sect #age regression/de-aging #de-aged wei wuxian #fluff #hurt/comfort #ghosts #autistic lan wangji #burial mounds settlement days #pov lan wangji #anxious wei wuxian #awkard lan wangji #malnutrition #medium fic 15k-49k #General #Dead Languages #chinuplipup

[least-carpet]

Pursued by lesser ghosts 😭😭😭😭 are they gonna figure it out. Let JC in there

Hello, anon! Perhaps I will also link Pursued by Lesser Ghosts for context, since it took me so long to answer this ask. (You do need an AO3 account to read it.) It's wangxian with left zhanchengxian. Left in the sense that both chengxian and zhancheng had previously occurred, and they have left Jiang Cheng behind! (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

In my heart, they figure it out, but I’m never going to write that because they are all in WILDLY different places and that would take... so long. This is partly what makes it interesting to rotate to me, because I think it’s a situation where the way any of the people involved would describe the facts in a relatively similar and nonchalant way, but their intellectual frameworks for the facts and emotional experience of the facts are so wildly disconnected that getting all three on the same page would be, uh, challenging. Rough character notes below.

Wei Wuxian:

Feels like JC should be mad at him, since he projects guilt about JYL already on to JC. additionally hates JFM’s treatment of JC but in total denial about both what the treatment means and how he feels about it. LWJ’s rejection and replacement of JC with WWX is going to trigger all of that BECAUSE it brings WWX's past understanding of JC into conflict with his current understanding of JC.

In the past, WWX’s JC feelings were positive; therefore any negative treatment by JFM had to be denied (and also Fixed by WWX).

WWX’s JC feelings are now negative, partly because of the projection and self-blame, and partly because of ongoing resentment about the core transfer (VERY traumatic plus the feeling like that degree of devotion and sacrifice was not reciprocated).

The emotional experience of REPLACING JC AGAIN is an experience that belongs to WWX’s childhood self, who loved JC and was extremely possessive and protective of him (the JZX beatdown was triggered finally by the insult about JC).

Also triggers memories of childhood > adulthood intimacies (some degree of sexual contact as teenagers that both of them “forgot about”).

WWX also terminally unable to leave shit alone, and now there’s a mystery about HIS HUSBAND and HIS SHIDI.

LWJ is just like “oh we had sex sometimes” but JC is a prude who doesn’t do that and only lets WWX touch him??? This is not a sufficient answer for WWX??? [meltdown]

CONFLICT CONFLICT CONFLICT KABOOM

Jiang Cheng:

I mean, Mr. Abandonment and Betrayal Issues got some feedback about what had happened, and that feedback was “it was duty, I never loved you like you loved me, let me go” (WWX) PLUS “now that the person who is better than you, who I really love, is here, I will replace you with him and never look back because you are Bad” (LWJ).

On one hand, closure! On the other hand, what if every childhood belief and fear about yourself all came true at once? Wouldn't that be fun? (I mean, the ones which had not already happened and left most of your family dead.)

Like he worked so hard to be good for love (root of childhood issues -> “if I am very good maybe dad will love me eventually and mom will finally be happy”) and this functions as proof that it has NEVER culminated in that love being returned.

I also don’t know how much he was aware of LWJ’s fixation on WWX before/during the time they were sleeping together. how blindsided he feels would change depending on that.

Also will blame himself for it (see childhood coping mechanisms… so abandonment by LWJ is “his fault” because he “should have expected it”).

He is. He is not doing so good. Genuinely bad to contemplate and I don’t know how you fix that, like, degree of damage.

He also Never Gives Up and JL is still alive so he’s not going to kill himself but like. it ain’t good.

Lan Wangji:

To me, this is the chewiest problem. Because he has these rigid categories of “good” and “bad” but is also missing a lot of information about what happened between JC and WWX (such as the fake fight/removal from the sect), he's made up his mind but it's based on incomplete information.

Also like, he's not particularly empathetic (so questions like “how would you feel if someone you unconditionally trusted accidentally killed your beloved sibling?” are ones he has perhaps never contemplated?)

IMO this intersects in a pretty ugly way with his canon sadism during the period he has a sexual relationship with JC. I would have to make some decisions about how bad that was, but I don’t think it’s good. I think JC goes along with it partly as a form of self-harm and partly because JC is under a lot of stress, touch-starved, and is genuinely pretty submissive in bed? But has no standards about it (healthy!) and doesn't know how to protect himself.

Initially this is fine to LWJ because it “doesn’t count” and “JC is bad” so LWJ doesn’t have to feel bad about how he treats JC.

But if it was a multi-year intermittent thing, I think that might change? Because I don’t think LWJ is actually that cruel, just inflexible and not great at people.

So they hook up semi-often and LWJ perceives JC worrying about JL, about YMJ, and to some degree about him (offers him salve for his scars, inquires semi-rudely about family, feeds him thoughtful vegetarian foods when around each other) and they get comfortable and sometimes they spend the night together and LWJ gets a lot less mean but not any better at talking…

But even as their behaviours change, LWJ’s mental model doesn’t, so when WWX returns, he just, like, ditches JC without any discussion whatsoever.

And he gets everything he thought he wanted!! And he’s happy about a lot of it but feels Weird in a way that he can’t articulate or explain.

So to get him to the throuple, his whole understanding of what they were doing with each other and what JC’s behaviour signified would have to change. On the other hand, he is now married to the nosiest and most determined man in the world and that man is going to ask him a LOT of questions.

He just has SO far to go. I think both WWX and JC at least understand that a loss happened, but LWJ hasn’t worked that out yet. He's feeling it, but hasn't been able to articulate it to himself because of how it conflicts with his beliefs.

So getting them all to kiss would be really hard work. I think they do, though!

#anon asks #asks #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #lan wangji #zhanchengxian #mdzs + #least-carpet thoughts #my fanfic

[thejhambs]

Why I consider JC the villain

Inspired by this post.

I feel like, yes, people keep trying to look for ways that MDZS could have gone differently, ways that WWX could have saved himself. And, the only way was for WWX to leave the Wens to die. The Wens would have died earlier and more cruelly if WWX had left them alone.

In fact, I feel like MDZS is interesting, because, for most characters who had the motivate to prevent WWX's death (WWX, JYL, LWJ, The Wens), there's literally no other option for them. WWX would have saved the Wens whether he cultivated the orthodox path or not, the Wens would have been jailed no matter what.

This wouldn't be a happy ending. WWX is not the type of person who would be happy in this situation. WWX was able to die without guilt. He had anger and resentment, yes, and he hated that the Wens died under his protection, but he at least had the comfort of knowing that he did all that he could have done. WWX's resentful spirit was said to be fairly docile, and that's the reason, it's because he doesn't have guilt. This wouldn't have been true for a WWX who didn't save the Wens.

Once he saves the Wens, and is seen as a heretic, he would have been attacked no matter what, and WWX is constantly put into unfair battles, that he doesn't initiate, and the damages of these situations are blamed on him, but there's no reason to believe that a golden core would have saved him in such a situation.

"He loses control", but that loss of control is always due to emotional disturbance. Emotional disturbance like that in a traditional cultivator could cause Qi Deviations with similar effects. That's what happened to Nie Mingjue, who's emotional state was made deliberately disturbed. So, not cultivating his ghost path wouldn't have saved him either.

LWJ couldn't have done anything, he just was not close enough to WWX for WWX to trust him to ask for help. Maybe he could have made WWX feel safer with him, but like, honestly, he was a tsundere teen, and I've said before that teens are allowed to be tsunderes. He couldn't have predicted what would happen just because he was mean to the annoying sexy boy in his class, lol.

JYL, she didn't know the situation that WWX was in, both she and JZX were kept from the worst of the Jins schemes, and they both died when they tried to do anything to help. Both JYL and JZX lack the power to have done anything.

Jiang Cheng though. That's where you can see an action that could have been made. In chapter 73, he sits before all the clan leaders, and is told about WWX's actions. He says that he owes the Wens a debt, and never clarifies the nature of the debt. Nie Mingjue says that Wen Qing never worked against Wen Ruohan, but this isn't true, and more importantly, JC knows it isn't true.

You can say that JC saying something would have been useless, but the fact of the matter is... he doesn't even try. He doesn't even try to tell people what happened, to be honest with them about why WWX did what he did. He could have tried to stand up for WWX, and that's something that could have changed the course of the story of WWX's first life, and made it so that it could be happier.

You can say that JC was powerless and that no one would support him, but the truth is, he wasn't really. The Jins had the most money, but the least amount of respect, because they joined the sunshot campaign late, and supported the Wens before that. The Lans and the Nies were in a similar war torn state as the Jiang, and they knew the circumstances of the Jin Sect's greed. Nie Mingjue is specifically noted as thinking that there was something shady about the situation he can't put his finger on.

JC was just the youngest, but to say that he was powerless just isn't true. He had the most feared cultivator on his side, and one of the things that JGS tells him to warn him of WWX's behaviour is that people will overlook him, the leader of the sect, and respect WWX more. There are no threats made to the YMJ sect, only to JC's pride.

Even if JC had genuinely perceived a threat to YMJ, telling the truth to at the conference and letting all the clan leaders decide the correct course of action could have helped. He did none of that, and that's the ONLY choice in the story that could have saved WWX.

The reason JC is the villain of the story is because of this. His choice was the one that led to WWX's downfall, at the end of the day. You can argue about his moral greyness or his nuances, or the way he tried to sacrifice his life for WWX, but the truth is, when WWX needed him, he didn't stand up for him. And, that's why there's no Yunmeng Shuanjie reconciliation, and why JC ends up unhappy at the end.

JC's one choice to sacrifice himself to the Wens at one moment means less than his choice to not support WWX in a political situation. And, that's his tragedy, too, the fact that he could have, the fact that he once loved WWX enough to sacrifice his life for him, but that his jealousy and insecurity won over his love for WWX. He doesn't choose his love when it matters, and so, love will never choose him back

#canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #mdzs meta

[llycaons]

'why didn't lwj and wwx confess in cql if they knew how they felt' well wwx has a lot of baggage and is terrified of commitment because his life experiences have taught him that he can't really rely on or trust people, that vulnerability is dangerous, and to be self-reliant to the point of destructive isolation. and lwj is a highly sensitive person who is terrified of loss through rejection but who also knows wwx is extremely self-sacrificing and debt-minded and doesn't want to pressure or guilt him into anything both because he cares a lot abt wwxs autonomy but also because of his own parental baggage. plus like, the traumas. the WAR. they were so young man. and then wwx was DEAD. and then just think of the political situation wwx was in. I mean there's a lot of different reads but I feel like those are pretty solid

#without the censorship you could reasonably expect more gay shit #in every single arc #there could be so many angsty kisses. alas #btw the thing about lwj knowing about wwx doing extreme things for others did come from a fic that was otherwise very predictable so props #ficblogging #cql txp

[add1ctedt0you]

I am very boring and picky, so there are few things I've discovered I don't enjoy reading (at least, for now; people grow and change):

Becoming a fierce corpse. I think it's a terrible situation! You don't need to sleep, eat, heal and if it has positive aspects (you are super strong and lethal), what does life mean to you? What do you even enjoy? Fierce corpses are made of resentful energy, they are full of hatred and resentment; how do they feel? And when the resentment isn't there anymore, what would happen to them?

Being a demonic cultivator. In the novel Imo is quite clear how wwx is fucked up by the resentful energy (me looking at jzx's death), without considering the cultural contest. So, I would love a character who practices demonic cultivation and then spirals in madness and grief (yeah, the yling patriarch' downfall is my favorite arc), but I've seen writers going literally the opposite side, so, ugh.

Fixing everything. Why would you do that? Idk if it's born from the conviction that if someone has good intentions, then they will succeed and everything will be fine. Everyone in mdzs has good intentions! Everyone is trying their best with what they have! But that doesn't fix shit, instead it makes things even worse! And isn't it satisfying? Watching your character push to make things better and at the end finding themselves without nothing if not dead bodies and guilt? (yeah, I love the yling patriarch' arc lol)

What I find very annoying is the definition "they are so good, they can't hate anyone"... Mmmm, kind people are still people??? Hate isn't a synonym to bad, it's an emotion people can feel, regardless of their character/temper (for example I read a fic where wwx left without notice the jiang siblings and after 6 years he returned; jc was quite pissed while jyl embraced him without questions. I got the feeling that jyl didn't give a shit about wwx lmao, even if the author' intent wasn't it.) Hate is a feeling most of time born from pain! I would like to read a fic where a character doesn't hate to a fault, creating unhealthy relationships, but, again people go the opposite direction, so, ugh.

#Idk if it's a mdzs's things but people are quite strange lol #In particular when handling some characters #I know people spend a lot of time writing and I respect that #Without even considering that everyone filters things based on their life experiences etc... #But people have strange take about kind people #In particular about jyl #wn is very kind but he has shown how cruel he can be and how much resentment he feels! #Anyway this are only my stupid thoughts