ugh one of the most tragic things about Order 66 and the Jedi Purge is the erasure of all that history by the Empire and by time. More than just history, it's the erasure of culture, the purposeful cleansing of the Jedi ways and people from the Galaxy. All these stories and people were lost, not to time, but by the intentional extinction of everything they ever were. In Crimson Reign #3, The Archivist (written by Charles Soule) puts it in a way that genuinely struck me when I was reading it.
You don't have to read all that, but I feel like it drives the point across wonderfully. The Jedi Order not only died because of Order 66 and the Purge, but the very idea of it was also made into a death sentence. Each Jedi's life, before the Empire, was preserved through the seemingly eternal memory of the Order, the Jedi Archives, or their lineage, and those who took their path. The Empire erased any trace of that memory, collapsing the tradition of millennia. As a Jedi, you are almost ensured to be remembered, and your actions are certain to have echoes throughout the ages. The Empire, and more specifically Palpatine I should probably say, did everything to take it away. What's left of The High Republic? What's left of the heroics of generations of Jedi? What's left of their life stories? Their meditation or lightsaber techniques?
It's the tragedy of the Jedi order, and it goes so much deeper than the awful loss of about 10,000 Jedi during Order 66 and the purge (not that that should be underestimated).
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So how much does Ren Prime even eat?
So how much does Ren eat? I estimate it to be roughly 4500kcal - 5100kcal per day. According to the NHS, the recommended daily intake for an average man is 2500kcal. So basically, Ren eats a fuckload of food.
I came to this figure mainly out of my arse and by using a body building calculator found on a popular body builder website, with the following inputs:
Age: 45
Sex: Male
Height: 205cm (Height from @startrasherbase useful height graph)
Weight: 134kg (Difficult to estimate, see below)
Goal: Gain weight (I doubt this guy ever looked at himself and thought ‘Yes. Yes this is enough’)
Activity level: Extra active (Working out 6-7 days, constantly on very physical heists)
Read on for more info on my guesstimates.
Estimating the weight is the hardest thing.
He's pretty tall, and height adds more weight than people seem to expect, and of course he's incredibly bulky. So finding a height and frame size reference was difficult. I started by looking at pro wrestlers, then realised that their billed heights and weights will be exaggerated, because wrestling. (Saying that, once I had a ball mark guess, I did compare a bit to The Rock, and it seems like it could be accurate with his billed height and weight)
So then I thought… What about Arnold Schwarzenegger? He is 15cm shorter than Ren and a bodybuilder who cuts a lot for competitions. But thankfully google tells us his out of competition weight of 118kg. Using this as something to work from.
Let me know if anyone can think of a better match, this guy isn't as tall as Ren but I think the body type here is quite similar. Bulky, defined abs and chest, not cut to bodybuilding competition levels. That triangle of large shoulders.
Apparently Schwarzenegger weighed about 104kg at this point in his life. Weighing 104kg would be 4016kcal per day according to the calculator. Now, Ren is 15cm taller.
I did a quick search, and good old quora said 1-2kg added per cm of height. I don't know how accurate this is I cba with looking deeper. So that is 15-30 extra kg on Ren. 119kg - 134kg. But, let’s be honest, it will be on the higher range there as look at the sheer size of the lad. Therefore, 134kg.
The age is also a complete guess, but 45 feels like it could work for TRoKR age. Could also take 50 I suppose.
Whichever it is, Ren eats a shit ton of food. Extra meals a day, snacking constantly… Or maybe he just forgoes water for additional protein shakes? Do they have protein shakes in Star Wars? What would a daily meal plan look like for this guy?
If anyone can offer more insight on building mass and being a Big Lad, I’d love to hear it!
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Speaking of Ren, how do you think he and the rest of the knights came into the service of Sidious? They seem none too thrilled about the Sith in crimson reign, with it even being noted groups like them were victims of the force sensitive purges Palpatine ordered
Given how the Ren simply exists to consume and doesn’t apologize for its existence, doing whatever is necessary to survive... Be it death or destruction... I have to imagine that by the end of the day, the Knights of Ren swallowed their pride and swore fealty to Sidious to survive. It’s not fun, but the Ren is the Ren.
This does get me into a bit of speculation and even a theory I have about the upcoming Hidden Empire series, and how I think all of this may tie into The Rise of Skywalker, bless those writers who perform the unenviable job of actually fleshing out the Sequel era’s story and even making it poetic at times. I think Hidden Empire will not only explain how the Knights of Ren came to serve the Sith, but also give more explanation as to Palpatine’s survival...
First off, I want to bring up Momin; Another Sith like Palpatine. He visited a wide variety of locations (such as the one depicted above), and then built a super weapon that would slow down time, freezing its victims in the eternal moment of their demise and suffering; A way to prolong the dark side and grant it immortality in a sense, as befitting Momin’s unique take on the Sith ideology. Alas, his machine backfires thanks to the Jedi, bless them, and Momin mentions specifically that he lost control of the energies of his machine when it backfired and vaporized him, leaving just his helmet behind.
So I believe that’s the explanation as to how Momin’s spirit survives in his mask, countless years later for Palpatine to find; Time slowed down Momin’s death instead, granting him a twisted form of immortality, not too unlike what Darth Sanguis achieved. And we know Palpatine interacted with Momin’s spirit before passing the helmet down to Vader...
Why is this relevant to the Knights of Ren? Well, the Archivist explains that Qi’ra’s attempted rebellion against Palpatine is ultimately a tragedy. And Qi’ra’s plan hinges on uncovering a legendary artifact that the Archivist is familiar with, an hourglass found in a location identical to one of the places Momin visited in his travels. And it’s the Knights of Ren who visit this place with the Archivist, claiming the hourglass at the cost of their comrade Bazzra.
Not only that, but earlier in the Knights’ storyline for this conflict, they infiltrated Vader’s castle through the same room where Momin opened a convergence in the force and died a second time; The aforementioned Bazzra sees a vision of Momin’s decapitated head, still alive. It’s a fun Easter egg and continuity nod, but I also have to wonder if it serves as a reminder and a hint as to what forces Qi’ra is working with here; What energies, perhaps not unlike the ones Momin lost control of.
He did dabble in the flow of time and whatnot, using the world between worlds and of course his failed superweapon as a means of accidental immortality. And an hourglass is of course an item that invokes the process of time in its function, so presumably this artifact that Qi’ra needs is related to time in some manner. We know this artifact’s location helped inspire Momin’s attempt to freeze time and preserve victims in eternal agony, only for that to backfire on him; Allowing Momin’s spirit to last and even possess living vessels...
And we know the Knights of Ren join Palpatine. That Qi’ra fails. And notably, Ren the character warns the Archivist that he and the Knights of Ren are done dying for her; They took this cause on for the sake of survival, so what’s the point if they all die taking down the Sith? And from a meta standpoint, what’s the point of this artifact if it accomplishes nothing in the end? Well... Maybe it does play a role;
I think this hourglass has the power to mess with the flow of time, slow it down, freeze it, etc. Momin studied it to figure out how to preserve everyone in their eternal moment of agony, but his research ended up doing that to himself; But he lived as a spirit who could possess bodies. By the time of Crimson Reign, Qi’ra hopes to use this hourglass to trap and freeze Palpatine, physically, in time. However, the Knights of Ren are instrumental in acquiring this hourglass and know about it themselves.
They’ve already lost two of their own -Fyodor and Bazzra- to Qi’ra’s cause. And we can guess that by the time they fight Luke Skywalker on Elphrona, Marinda and Massif die as well. I speculate that the deaths of Marinda and/or Massif will act as a last straw for Ren, who will opt to save the remaining Knights by siding with Sidious instead. They’ll betray Qi’ra, giving the hourglass to Palpatine, and/or sabotaging Qi’ra’s plan so it doesn’t function quite as intended, similar to Momin.
So instead of physically trapping Palpatine in frozen time, the hourglass will instead preserve his soul, as it did Momin’s; So that when he does die on the second Death Star, he becomes a timeless ghost similar to Momin... And is thus also capable of inhabiting living vessels to survive, hence the degraded clones he uses on Exegol. Of course, it’s not quite perfect and perhaps the hourglass only buys Palpatine a second chance, some more time (haha) before his inevitable death, which leads to some urgency in him seeking Rey as a new and permanent host.
(That or Palpatine killed Darth Noctyss and assumed her curse as a means of twisted immortality; We never find out what happened to her, and it would provide another explanation for how he managed to survive.)
Because he’s in a good mood and whatnot, Palpatine spares the Knights of Ren and welcomes him into his ranks. Maybe he negotiates the idea beforehand with them directly, maybe through Ochi of Bestoon, who is playing both sides between the Empire and Crimson Dawn and like Sidious’ survival, also debuted in TROS. Maybe it’s a spur of the moment offer by Ren that Palpatine accepts, or even an honest mistake with the hourglass that in cruel humor, Sidious labels an ‘offering’ by the Knights of Ren that he cherishes.
Maybe they don’t betray Qi’ra at all, and they simply swear fealty to the strongest after it slays their previous master, like they later do with Kylo. Maybe the Knights of Ren flee when Crimson Dawn is taken down, and years later, a desperate Palpatine employs their services; And the Knights of Ren consider the Jedi to be an even greater threat to their existence than the Sith. Who knows? Regardless, I think if we look at how their Ren philosophy operates... It makes a sad amount of sense that if pushed into a corner (such as by getting themselves so deeply involved in a direct attack), the Knights of Ren would ally with an enemy and serve them to survive. The Ren kills to live after all, what’s fealty to someone stronger?
Ren does mention a ‘master’ finding something for them to do shortly before Ben’s betrayal of the Jedi Order. He could be referring to the dark side as a whole, but it’s possible he means Palpatine; And that the Knights of Ren are aware of their and Snoke’s mutual subservience to Sidious, hence why they accept Snoke’s recommendation of Kylo, when they otherwise wouldn’t have given him the chance. I am curious as to this pre-Kylo relation between Snoke and the Knights of Ren that even comes with a bit of respect and acknowledgement from both sides, but that’s another story for now.
But yeah; I think Crimson Reign and Hidden Empire will flesh out and properly explain the mechanics of Palpatine’s survival that was revealed in TROS, alongside the Knights of Ren and their subservience to him, also shown in that film. The Knights of Ren and this hourglass will play a major role in this untold story, thus making Palpatine’s resurrection feel more earned as the culmination of an arc and characters’ efforts, a meaningful story in itself, rather than the lazy writer’s asspull it started off as.
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