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onesunofagun · 11 months

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The implications on Ganondorf and his background in TotK suggest some very interesting things to me.

First of all, like. I love him. He specifically did not disappoint me. His JP audio fucks so hard. I love his design. He's glorious.

And Hyrule as an imperialistic divine hegemony is not a new concept in the slightest, obviously, the Ganondorf corner of the fandom have known and discoursed about the potential story ramifications of those themes since OoT, but Fujibayashi really went ham on it in his run. (And look. Zelda is made in Japan. Framing a divine imperial authority as a good thing narratively is pretty par for the course JP nationalism, to be really blunt. It is what it is. Grain of salt.)

But I do appreciate that it revisited some OoT plot beats even if it... really drove that point home again in retrospect

I guess new fans are in for a treat unpacking that;;;

Anyway in the BG of that, I'm interested in the particular minutia of what was happening with this Ganondorf specifically to flavour his particular brand of 'fuck you'

And a few important points that give broader context to things are these and I'll put under a cut bc spoilers obviously--

Rauru's repeated 'invitations' to join Hyrule and benefit from their protection (presumably some advanced technological access or strong magical allies as part of that promise, which I believe is probably anti-monster focused within world context) which Ganondorf as a King has very much ignored (and good for him tbh).

Clearly, he has an interest in keeping Gerudo independent.

Ganondorf is acknowledged as a Hero to his people. Not only does this heavily resonate with the very particular themes of his actual character design and both its Buddhist reference and Samurai trope homages, but like-- we're actively shown an explanation for WHY he may be considered such.

Being who he is, he's already magically inclined with a kinship to monsters. We are unapologetically shown him in command of a Molduga Army. Trained Moldugas, under his command-- and not under specifically his mystical command, either, but musically conditioned. Trained to follow sound based command cues, which makes plentiful sense given Moldugas are sound sensitive and Ganondorf usually has musical inclinations. Plus it's Zelda franchise, magic command music is also very much a thing but--

Moldugas are, at least medicinally, very important resources. On a larger scale, they're also a very present threat to desert dwellers and travellers, and from the looks of it in much larger numbers, back then.

Given the context of everything, Ganondorf was a badass even before 'he took a magic relic and fucked up the Hyrulean Royal Family' as he tends to do. Sporting as ever, he fights Link one on one as just a Gerudo, also showing once again that he does in fact have some personal code of honour when it comes to fighting worthy opponents. But it gives us a yardstick of how capable he probably was even before he nabbed the tear.

Capable enough of tangling with most big uglies in the desert, such as Moldugas, which he has at least trained and at most maybe even raised.

Exemplified Power as he ever is, I'd like to point out that in this case, he's demonstrating a flipside of what Power looks like-- benevolence, protection, guardianship. Once again, we have the pieces that indeed he is capable of that and showing that to his own people. He also flexes the Molduga Army as a show of Gerudo and its own power.

To anyone other than Rauru, who is an incredibly powerful Sage already, a Molduga Army would have absolutely won the day, I think. The reaction of the other Gerudo is pretty telling.

Ganondorf's faction were deeply shaken by the display of Rauru's power. And as a guy that's been knocking on your King's door and saying 'you should come and bend knee to me' when Gan already has the worst problem in the sands sorted out?

Very understandable.

From their perspective -- what do they need protection from, exactly, if not Hyrule itself? Their monster problem is a non-issue. From the viewpoint of Gerudo loyal to Ganondorf, everything about this looks like a pressured threat.

Which comes back around, of course, to what Ganondorf plainly lays out to Rauru when he gains the tear-- this is because Rauru tried to control him. And yes, that's Ganondorf and his pride and his nature in full tilt too. He will not be pulled beneath anyone or anything.

But that's the point about that hubris on Rauru's part, he felt superior and he underestimated both Gerudo and Ganondorf-- as a warrior and a leader, and as somebody who was likely managing things very well on his own.

But I mentioned factions. This is something that should be made clear.

Pointed ears are, canonically, associated with faithfulness to Hylia and/or the worship of Hyrulean spirits. This gets debated all the time, but that's the fact of it. We have been shown again and again that humans from outside of Hyrule have round ears (as long ears are associated with hearing the voices of the gods; ie being open to them). Exposure to Hyrulean aligned divine elements can lend pointedness to previously totally round ears. We see this happen.

It has been doubled down upon that the ancient Gerudo (such as in oot and FSA, with FSA having the introduction of the floral association in Gerudo design and OoT heavily centering mirrors in their spiritual practices) worship different deities, whether derivatives of Din or Hylia or completely different myth. The Goddess of the Sands has been confirmed as a deity that Hyrule itself views as evil and false.

I generally interpret this to mean that part of the reason boils down to this-- Hyrule's main concern is that pointed ears are living lives closer to the gods, and therefore more insulated against corruption and demonic influences. Rather fittingly, their patron's foremost spiritual antagonist tends to find his reincarnation in unprotected, non-Hyrulean tribes who are 'open' to demons.

Now that may be another layer to what Rauru means when he says protection, also. Worshipping the 'right gods' affords certain protections (and certainly supports the security of Hyrule itself).

In SkSW, by the way, there's a really cool point of questioning early human society too-- the fire temple depicts demons and monsters and snakes quite a bit, and these were built in a time when I suspect the humans were mostly a large proto-people.

Sidenote: I think Hylia's faithful went to Skyloft and generally shook out to be the Hylians we know later, where some stayed on Earth to serve Hylia's plan and became Sheikah, many more people were transformed into demons in a reverse-Batreaux situation, and some humans just scattered far and wide to avoid conflict.

Anyway that temple depicts Bokoblins making hand signs and long story short, the overall motif and meaning of that temple shows demons offering to teach things, approaching humans with a different kind of enlightenment. Whoever built that temple was very much in a state of open spiritual and mystical curiosity.

Now the takeaway there is, ultimately, the ancient Gerudo very much seem to be descended from such a sect of people. They have their own gods, and they're not part of Hyrule proper, and they have round ears because of it.

Botw departed from that very clearly, but in doing so, also erased and replaced almost all traces of the ancient Gerudo deities with new Hylian analogues.

The Seven/Eight Heroines count as Hylianised deities, and I believe the reason for this-- first suspected in botw but I feel it's weightier after totk-- is that they represent tear holders / Hylia aligned Sages in the seven group (edit: and apparently a Hero in the Eighth) such as those in the decline timeline. They are functionally the reason that the Gerudo of modern day possess long ears-- even where they are selective in what they worship, they are still worshipping Hylia aligned aspects of Divine Hyrule.

And in case this wasn't absolutely irrefutable to me beforehand, the ancient Gerudo Sage from Rauru's time is both loyal to him, and possesses pointed ears under her camel mask.

I would also point out the Hylians of Rauru's time seem to have longer ears in general, probably owing to having a Zonai King, ostensibly a Hylia aligned Deity himself.

Ganondorf's ears are rounded, of course. He clearly doesn't believe in Hyrulean worship even in lip service, and it's little wonder why.

But following another beat of OoT, that ancient sage is a very obvious Nabooru type character. And, in much the same way, that suggests that even when Ganondorf was King of the Gerudo only, there may have already been factions splitting up amongst their people based on spiritual practices.

I don't think it's beyond the pale to speculate there may have been a mixture of Gerudo at the time who had both pointed ears and round, signalling the confusion from and conflict between their spiritual leaders.

It seems likely that a schism probably existed, regardless of ears, but that schism-- and the sage who may well have been leading it-- may have been caused by people who decided respond to those calls from Rauru and join Hyrule without their King.

Which gives a lot more context to why Ganondorf would be in the mood to send a giant Molduga shaped "back off" Rauru's way, also.

I take particular note that Ganondorf's destruction intentions are faced towards Hyrule and her allies, and specifically those who oppose him in that goal. And while I concur that his whole Red Inheritance party ran hard and may well have had a decent hand in frightening the bejeezus out of the Gerudo who were previously faithful to him-- maybe even inadvertently sent some running for camp Hyrule-- it seems he considers modern day Gerudo, fully converted to pro-Hyrulean status, to be traitors.

We have no idea what happened to the Gerudo who followed him, so that's really up in the air as to how messy that may have gotten.

Even the woman who plays to summon the Molduga has pointed ears though, so I tend to lean that his camp got converted to Heroine worship (or at least those with pointed ears mostly did if the mixed ear situation was happening).

But heck, it would not be the first time some Gerudo got ran outta dodge after a King went belly up.

Food for thought.

#ganondorf #legend of zelda #ocarina of time #long post #totk #totk spoilers #botw #gerudo #zelda #zelda meta

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hyrule-in-a-pokeball · 11 months

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THE RE-WRITTEN TIMELINE

!!!WARNING!!!

Spoilers for Tears of the Kingdom ahead. Shut your eyes and scroll for a sec if you don't want to see.

No seriously I'm going all in.

Alright now that those nerds are gone, lets talk about how my suspicions that all past games are no longer canon turned out to be 100% correct. Also grab some coco, we're gonna be here for a minute.

At the beginning of Tears of the Kingdom, Link and Zelda are separated, with Zelda being transported into the distant past thanks to her latent time magic going nuts when exposed to a sage stone (NOTE:

Sage stones greatly amplify the holder's powers and while Zelda possessed both light AND time magic due to her ancestry, it seems her time magic was stronger and so was what the stone amplified)

Zelda finds herself in the era of Hyrule's founding and meets the first king and queen of Hyrule, her ancestors, King Rauru (A Zonai possessing light magic) and Queen Sonia (A Hylian possessing time magic). Both are not only the King and Queen, but are the sage of light and time respectively. It is made very clear that these two are the first king and queen of Hyrule. None came before them. All came after them.

Now, I hear you saying "This doesn't make all the old games non-canon!" Yeahyeah, shush, keep reading. The adversary the first king and queen face in Hyrule's first era is none other than Ganondorf, the demon king of the Gerudo tribe

Before, Ganondorf first appeared in OoT's era (which was not, nor was it ever stated to be Hyrule's founding era), but now here he is, right at the beginning of it all with the first king and queen. In fact we even get a sort of recreation/Overwrite of a certain OoT scene

A moment in both games in which Ganondorf is swearing fealty to the King of Hyrule. Of course, in OoT, Rauru isn't the current king, but an ancient sage dwelling in the light temple And also a Hylian. And also an Owl... This has been re-written, he';s a Zonai and the first king now, and also not an Owl.

Ganondorf ultimately betrays the king, echoing his actions in OoT, but in this timeline, there's no little princess Zelda, there's no Sheikah, there's no little forest boy. Nobody to meddle in Ganondorf's plans. He murders Queen Sonia and steals her stone, taking it for himself and amplifying his powers to insane degrees, and truly becoming The Demon King.

Rauru rallies the leaders of the regions of Hyrule, A Gerudo woman, A Zora woman, a Goron, and a Rito man, as well as his older Sister Mineru. Aside from Mineru, all the others remain nameless, but all wear helmets/masks that are reminiscent of the divine beasts that would be created thousands of years in their own futures and be named after them.

Thats right. I strongly believe these four to be Nabooru, Ruto, Darunia, and I guess "Medo"(?). Rauru gives them all sacred stones, naming them sages. Nabooru becoming the sage of lightning, "Medo" becoming the sage of wind, Ruto the sage of water, and Darunia the sage of fire. Mineru is already the sage of Spirit, Zelda, having a sacred stone, is named the sage of time, and Rauru, also possessing one, is the sage of light.

Together, with their own powers jacked up, they confront the demon king and his army of monsters. And lose. In a last act of desperation, King Rauru; the sage of light, uses his light powers, apparently fueled by his own life, to seal Ganondorf and drain away his magic.

Ganondorf knows this seal won't hold forever and taunts Rauru that this is ultimately a futile act, But Rauru, having knowledge of the future thanks to a time traveling Zelda, tells him that by that time, someone wielding a magic sword that destroys evil will appear to oppose him, and that person's name is JACK- I mean LINK. Ganondorf, fascinated by this prospect, says he looks forward to this, and then succumbs to Rauru's sealing magic. And there the two of them stay for thousands upon thousands of years.

This conflict between the seven sages and the Demon King Ganondorf became legend, and is known in present day Hyrule as... The Imprisoning war

Now according to all official Zelda media released before this point, the Imprisoning war happened before A Link to the Past/Twilight Princess/Wind Waker, and was the name for the events that took place in OoT. OoT and the events shown in Tears of The Kingdom cannot exist side-by-side. TotK overwrites the ancient legend that is OoT.

BUT WE'RE NOT DONE YET

OH NO

See. Ganondorf stays sealed there until present day. He doesn't break his seal and get into mischief. He doesn't kidnap girls on the high seas or puppet an idiot wannabe king. He stays sealed in that spot for thousands upon thousands of years. The event of 10,000 bbw (Before Breath of the Wild) take place while he's still sealed away. "Calamity ganon", while born of Ganondorf, is a different entity just sort of spawned from him. I have my suspicions now that Calamity Ganon is actually Ganondorf's magic that was drained away by Rauru, having coalesced and taken on a sort of conscious form. But then, how did the people of the ancient past know that "ganon" would return? How did they know they needed a hero with a magic sword? How did they know to build divine beasts to help fight this monstrously powerful foe?

Because Zelda, from present day, kept saying in the founding era "Yo this guy is gonna come back in the future and a dude named link with a cool sword is gonna fight him so be ready to throw down" She told this to each individual sage, and in turn, each sage made sure that when that time came, their people, the Gerudo, the Zora, the Rito, and the Gorons, would be there to help the hero. So for generations, they waited. They planned. And then one day, "Calamity ganon" appeared. It was defeated and sealed away by the princess of that era, a nameless hero, and big ol' mechs. And then it appeared again for the last time, because that time it was destroyed 100 years later. Then 5-8 years later Ganondorf woke up, Zelda went back in time and- Oh look a time loop

Suddenly the logo makes a lot of sense

BUT THAT REMAINS TO BE ALL, MY FRIENDS

The tapestry shown in Breath of the Wild depicting a nameless ancient hero wielding the master sword, standing against Calamity Ganon along with the guardians and divine beasts? Remember that?

We always thought he looked very odd. Very "not-Link" like. And thats because he didn't. Your reward for finishing all 152 shrines in Tears of the kingdom is an unusual single piece of armor called "Ancient Hero's Aspect"

These three pieces represent the Owl, the dragon, and the boar. In Zonai tradition, the Owl represented Wisdom, the Dragon; Courage, and the Boar; Power. This item's description reads as follows: "This item is said to contain the spirit of a hero who once saved Hyrule. That hero's aura will envelop the wearer" So what happens when you put this armor on?

Link takes on the form of that ancient hero. An individual who appears to be half Zonai (Full blood Zonai have much longer ears). Who has a snout, and long flowing red hair. And once, long ago, he wielded the master sword in opposition to Calamity Ganon.

Too long; didn't read? The events of Tears of the Kingdom directly and brutally contradict the entirety of the Legend of Zelda franchise and now only Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom should be considered canon

#The legend of Zelda #Tears of the Kingdom #Tears of the kingdom spoilers

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phoenixcatch7 · 10 months

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Totk au idea, with ideas involving end game spoilers under the cut:

Link as the sage of forest! Like saria! A lot of totk revolves around exploring, sure, but it focuses a lot less on the untamed wilderness and Link’s relationship with it than botw, which has been his defining characteristic for the past six years (and generally for nearly forty). If Link was a sage, I’d like for him to go back to his roots and be something the grand scheme of hyrule wouldn’t consider as important anymore, but still is.

It’d be so cool to see what kind of powers that’d give him, it’d be a canon aligned way to give him all those cool nature magics I see a lot in fics! Maybe he could talk to animals, grow plants, purify running water, enhanced senses in the wild, animal empathy, all sorts!

When I was playing, I thought the secret stones were already assigned to their respective elements, and each sage just took up that mantle like in oot, tp, etc. However, in the wiki it said that each stone actually changed according to its wielder! Obviously I went looking for receipts in game, and I found them!

Each sage has their own ‘signature’, featuring a (sheikah?) eye and scribbles, which appears in the background of their sacred realm room, but most importantly here on their stones. Similarly, each signature has a colour associated with them. Rauru has white, sonia has a vivid yellow. Zelda gets her stone from rauru, and guess what colour it has? Yellow. Zelda and sonia have identical stones, down to the signature. It has an eye on the left, and a few curved lines branching off roughly the tear duct.

When ganon steals sonias stone, not only does it grow to fit him as the stones did noticeably for the goron sage, but it gains a new colour (that I previously thought to be general ‘corrupting evil’) and a new signature, one with a figure 8 on the right.

Now, at the very end of the game, Link drives the master sword into ganons secret stone (why or how it was on a dragon instead of fusing with it I have no idea), in theory destroying it, blowing it up and saving the world, yada yada (there certainly was a detonation). However, we could assume enough of the stone survived intact, or it got rewound at the same time Link and Zelda did, or that it reformed later so as not to upset the balance or smth (sages are famous for their reincarnation/spiritual successors, after all), which leaves us with one free secret stone of phenomenal power. Literally who else would zelda give it to?

Thing is, Link isnt very... Light and time magic are very much more zeldas thing. Link is more the wildcard, the child of the forest, the knight, the hero of the sword that seals the darkness. His job is practically to fade back into the summer mist once the world is saved, you can very much see that in totk with him refusing to associate with the champion title on his travels, and pre AND post game with him happiest vibing in zeldas shadow, not bringing attention to himself.

There is a precedent to a forest sage of course, saria, his best friend in a past life. In fact, the oot forest sage was originally intended to be the wind sage - it was in early screenshots of the game before it was released! There’s no reason at all that Link wouldn’t become a forest sage upon taking up the stone. Zelda has enough magic light in her for them both, with a kingdoms worth to spare XD.

I wonder what it would appear as? Necklace, gauntlet, anklet, earring, glove, belt, chest piece, circlet? A sheath? A bracelet? A hair ornament?

#totk #loz #loz totk #tears of the kingdom #loz tears of the kingdom #tloz tears of the kingdom #tloz #tloz totk #totk au #loz au #totk spoilers #forest sage au #i may expand later #loz link #totk link #totk secret stones

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aikoiya · 9 months

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Loz: TotK - How is Hyrule Imperialist?

I've seen a lot of people saying that TotK is imperialist propaganda & that Ganondorf was justified & that Rauru tried to annex the Gerudo but... how do you figure?

A. Imperialism is defined as "a policy of extending a country's power & influence through diplomacy or military force." Which we never really see Hyrule do.

B. From what I'm seeing "annexation is when one country forcibly asserts control & sovereignty over another country's territory. This usually follows military occupation. Annexation is unilateral. Territorial control is declared by the occupying power; the other party gets no say."

At what point did Rauru or the Hylians portray either of those things? Specifically declaring territorial control of the Gerudo? If this were the case, then why go through the trouble of inviting Ganondorf & suggesting they share in Hyrule's bounty when Rauru was already the king of Hyrule & had the upper hand?

Especially when he could've just sent his military & been like "mine now."

Like, all we know for a fact is that Rauru requested an audience with Ganondorf multiple times to specifically, as he said, "share in Hyrule's bounty," that the Zonai had a mine beneath the Gerudo Desert (which we don't know whether or not the Gerudo were using it or had access to; we don't even know if they knew about the Zonaite beneath them), Ganondorf physically attacked first, & that he went around forcibly taking control of what were verbally described as "free Gerudo cities." (Which is something else of interest, there were once multiple Gerudo settlements, but that's for another time.) He then kills Rauru's wife, takes her Secret Stone, & besieges Hyrule.

There's also the fact that at least 1 Gerudo opposed his actions enough to side with another country over him. In an extreme case, this could possibly indicate a civil war between the Gerudo, just like what happened in OoT. Which would explain why he'd felt the need to capture other Gerudo settlements. To assert his dominance & regain control.

There just isn't enough information to say one way or the other if Rauru tried to annex the Gerudo. And, in fact, there's more evidence to suggest otherwise.

Also keep in mind that the Gerudo are most likely not natives of the Gerudo Desert as they could only have appeared after Skyward Sword, which they didn't appear in at all beyond a mention of the word "Gerudo." After Skyward Sword, the Hylians lived upon the surface. And before the ancient times of SS, what we know of as the Gerudo Desert was named the Lanayru Sea.

In fact, the only thing with the "Gerudo" name at the time were a species of dragonfly that lived there as mentioned above. And even as a desert, it was specifically referred to as the "Lanayru Desert," not the "Gerudo Desert."

As far as we know, the Gerudo didn't come until later. And if this turns out to be the case, then don't Hylians, at least technically, have more right to the desert & its resources than the Gerudo?

Remember, Hylians ARE native to Hyrule. Hyrule was founded by Hylians, who worshiped Hylia, who created said Hylians, & the 3 Golden Goddesses, who created Hyrule.

Add to that the fact that the Gerudo are never really depicted as worshiping any of Hyrule's pantheon. The closest thing we see to godly figures in their culture being the Goddess of the Sand, the 7 Heroines, & the 8th (who I call the Forsaken Hero based on TotK side quest spoilers).

My guess is that at some point before OoT, they migrated from a land to the southwest, on the other side of the Lanayru Desert (possibly from a different desert), & settled in the desert itself. At the time of the ancient past of SS, that land was kept completely separate from Hyrule by what, back then, was the Lanayru Sea.

This, however, would make the Gerudo foreigners. Hell, isn't Ganondorf technically an attempted colonizer in TotK & an actual colonizer in OoT?

I just... It seems more like Rauru was trying to handle things diplomatically, possibly even trying to become allies. Because if he really had been trying to take over the Gerudo by force, he wouldn't have had any need for things like diplomacy. Heck, with a good enough engineering degree, he wouldn't have even needed his Secret Stone! Their Zonai Device Constructs could've wiped the Gerudo out entirely!

LoZ Wild Masterlist

#loz #totk #legend of zelda #tears of the kingdom #rauru #hyrule #ganondorf #gerudo #gerudo desert #imperialism?

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rosezemlya · 11 months

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TotK impressions

Officially finished the game! Thoughts under the cut. Potentially light spoilers.

Mechanics fun, visuals beautiful, everything related to the story... weak.

If I split the story into two parts - part one being the ideas and maybe like a bulleted list of events, and part two being the actual "writing", like dialgoue and how the world reacts / interacts with the story: Part one (ideas), good. A lot of promise. Cool thoughts / interactions / images potential. Neat additions to existing lore (usual mixed of bag of confusing additions to, but welcome to Zelda, I guess). Plenty of opportunities for interesting character development or emotional growth or world building.

But the second part (execution) is where it all kind of falls down for me. In the first BotW, the flashbacks ADDED to the story, they didn't repeat each other, they interacted additively or multiplicatively with each other, but they could exist on their own. They tended to define or elaborate on character and relationship dynamics, with only light touches on plot points, which you were mostly getting through the modern-day interactions. I think that's probably most of how it didn't wind up confusing no matter what order you found them in.

I found in TotK the flashbacks were repetitive as Hell and often confusing. At first I thought maybe I was just finding them in a bad order, but then I found them all and I was like, oh, no, it wasn't the order. They just were trying to tell a certain kind of story with a vehicle that's either ill-suited or else they didn't know how to use it properly. I was so confused so often and there were so many things I just had to accept because it was clear the game was never going to offer anything more on the subject.

There was very little character development. I think I was supposed to care about Mineru waaaaaaaay more than I did by the end. This is the closest I've come to liking a Rauru in a Zelda game, and I actually think I could get there with this one, except there was a weird kind of vibe that left me feeling like the was stealing attention/thunder/story from Zelda that made me low key awkward, even when he was being cool.

The tone shifts in the flashbacks were wild, and there was little to no build-up to those shifts. There didn't feel like there was any real emotional continuity or arc between them, even though they had an order, and were relaying a linear narrative.

The world in general utterly failed to acknowledge ANYTHING I had done or knowledge I had at any point, and that significantly contributed to my confusion. I knew where Zelda was and what was going on with the stories about where she was waaaaaaaaaay before I got to the end of those questlines. So why did the world act like I didn't? I had the Master Sword and the world kept pretending I didn't yet.

I am EXTREMELY confused about how this game fits into the official timeline. With the note for those who are somehow here and yet not aware of my general position about the timeline, which is that I don't care about it and don't consider it much overall. But they made an official timeline, and there's supposed to be some sort of internal logic to stuff based on it. So why did this game feel SO MUCH like a complete retcon replacement of OOT? Is it supposed to be? Because it felt like it. Except it can't be. But it kind of has to be? But it's not. But I think it's meant to be? I'm confused.

Where'd the Divine Beasts go? Where'd the Sheikah tech stuff go? Why do people who I definitely knew very well in BotW not know who I am?

Why are the original sages wearing masks all the time and they don't get to be actual characters or people?

I just have a lot of questions and I'm honestly annoyed at the waste of a Zelda story with such good bones.

#loz #loz totk #loz botw #rose plays totk

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wc-confessions · 3 months

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i haven't actually read any books past The Last Hope in the OOtS arc but. i have received Many spoilers and not gonna lie i think the plot device of Ashfur possessing Bramblestar is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. LET HIM DIE!! I DO NOT WANT TO SEE HIM ANYMORE!!! could they not come up with anything more interesting...?

and i guess i wont be able to Really pass judgment until I actually read the the books but my first impression? big thumbs down from me

#confession #bramblestar #ashfur

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cloudninetonine · 1 year

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Ey, hi! Comin' in on a full-speeding train right now. Idk if someone talked about this before, but I just vividly remembered that there was a prequel manga for Ocarina of Time, where we see how Time got into the hands of the Kokiri. We saw his mother, father, and grandmother.

(UH spoiler, I guess)

My brain is hurting with the thought of Time never knowing his mother, father, and grandmother, who all died. His mom was suffering from serious wounds, and turned into a tree after gaining access to the Kokiri village, his dad died on the battlefield, and his grandmother end up slaughtered. Imagine if the player read all the mangas, including the prequel to Ocarina of Time.

From what I know, Time doesn't even know his family, what they look like, or what happened to them. He just knows he was raised with the Kokiri and that's it. Imagine Time ends up sitting them down and asking how much do they know and they just inwardly cringe cause they know everything. From what happened to his family to the end.

Anyway, time for me to go now, byeee *jumps out window*

Oop- there goes another one.

I knew about his mother but I didn't know about his father or his gran!

Fucking hell turning into a tree ain't the best way to go is it? Hope she's not conscious, but then again knowing the horror that sees to hover towards Oot and MM then she probably is.

I can imagine Player's cringe from miles away- they don't want to tell him but they also know they can't hold back so they start from the beginning.

"..both your parents were blonde."

It's an awkward starter, but it's certainly a starter and has him listening.

#cloud answers #Anon asks

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airplanned · 10 months

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I have a fic idea.

This isn’t going to get written for A While, so I thought I’d start talking about it. When I finished the game, the idea I had for a post-game fic felt like they wouldn’t work, so I stopped thinking about it.

Then I had an idea.

Spoilers for the whole game below the cut

So I was hoping (and then realized after a second’s reflection that it there was no way) that Zelda would come out the end of the game with amnesia 😂. And Link would have to take her around to trigger memories. And it would be his turn to help her through this.

But then she seems to come out completely unscathed, which is kinda boring, but I’m happy for her. So never mind, I guess.

But then I thought, she doesn’t remember being a dragon, and maybe those memories could get triggered over the course of the fic.

Simultaneously, I want to do something about the other three dragons. I thought that was going to be a big plot point in totk, and would help me figure out how to save Zelda (again, I was wrong). So Zelda would be very into “rescuing” the three dragons. And the Zonai survey team could be involved in research, and they can track down old legends about people who turned into dragons.

But why would someone want to turn into a dragon? I hope this becomes a whole genre of fic, with a bunch of people writing different things because there’s so much here. People could be after power. They could be after immortality. They could need to carry a message. They could need to protect something. All for bad and good motivations.

I think during one of the many horrible things that happened during Hyrule’s history, some shit went down. Not only that, but Zelda as a dragon was involved. And we learn the whole dramatic story as Zelda gets back her memories and the dragons turn back into people (who don’t recognize Person Zelda and might not be what they seem).

And I think somehow this could tie into the OoT Din, Nauru, and Farore lore.

#Zelda #TotK spoilers #my fic

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faroreswinds · 11 months

Text

Anon asks about Totk-spoilers below

I think the implication is Zelda moved in with Link at his house in Hateno. It would be weird for the princess to have a normal house in a rural community so far away from Hyrule Castle, unless you take into account that the castle is probably still in a mostly uninhabitable state from the Calamity, so she'd have to live somewhere else during the restoration period. The Hateno house was probably Link's childhood home from before he became a knight at the castle 100+ years ago.

I do believe that is meant to be the implication, but it’s really weirdly written. No one in town actually knows Link, not even the mayor. Except the Sheikah teacher, I guess. But everyone else? Nah, Link is a stranger.

And it’s not like Zelda has a lot of places to choose from to live in. Maybe Kakariko, I guess, maybe Lurelin. But Hateno seems like the most obvious choice. (They also clearly just recycled Link’s house for Zelda, development-wise).

As for the childhood home, that I DID know. Although it matters so little, since Link never reacts to his old home in any meaningful way.

Do you think botw/totk rebooted the series/started a new timeline? Considering Rauru and Sonia are stated to be the founders of Hyrule, and there are no zonai in SS.

It is a very real probability. Hard to say though. I am currently undecided where past-totk should fall. New continuity? New timeline? Far in the future?

I am kinda leaning towards a new timeline, split from SS. It kinda explains a lot of lore inconsistencies away if you do! I’m going to borrow someone else’s explanation a bit to show how it works.

From a reddit user, they wrote:

When someone travels backwards through time, to avoid the grandfather paradox, the timeline splits when the past is significantly changed. When someone travels to the future, they stay in the same timeline. We see this in OoT - what causes the timeline split specifically is Zelda sending Link to the past.

So in SS, I think the timeline split would occur thanks to Ghirahim. Ghirahim stealing Zelda and going backwards through the Gate of Time - and forcing Link to defeat Demise centuries before the Triforce destroyed the Imprisoned. That's when the split happens. When Link and Zelda go through the future, I think they stay in the new altered future they have created. That is why in Skyward Sword, when Link leaves the Master Sword in the past, it is still there in the future.

So in my mind there are two timelines:

Imprisoned Timeline: The timeline where Demise, as the Imprisoned, is destroyed by Link's wish upon the Triforce. Link, Zelda, and Groose end up abandoning this timeline due to Ghirahim's actions. The Master Sword has also left this timeline.

Demise Timeline: The timeline where Ghirahim steals Zelda and Demise is killed by Link, and does his curse. The Master Sword with Fi is left in this timeline, and this is the timeline where Link and Zelda return to.

Impa is present in both timelines to dramatically shape history's events.

About the Master Sword - it is a puzzle, because it ultimately exists in both timelines. In this scenario, it vanishes in the Imprisoned Timeline. Now consider:

The one hard line between Breath of the Wild and Skyward Sword: Fi is in the Master Sword in Breath of the Wild.

How the Master Sword was created in Skyward Sword conflicted with what we were told in Twilight Princess. TP's Princess Zelda describes the Master Sword as: “The blade of evil's bane that was crafted by the wisdom of the ancient sages... the Master Sword”

So perhaps in the Imprisoned Timeline, the Master Sword was recreated - after all the ingredients are still there, but this time by the ancient sages.

So in summation:

Imprisoned Timeline: Part of Skyward Sword + the entire rest of the Zelda timeline. Hylia's mortal reincartion does not exist in the timeline, but Impa ensures that the legacy of Link and Zelda are important in the eventual founding of Hyrule. Hyrule ends up primarily worshipping the Golden Goddesses. The Triforce was the people's salvation. The Master Sword is created by the ancient sages, and is called the Blade of Evil's Bane. Ganondorf is a just a guy driven by a lust for power.

Demise Timeline: The end of Skyward Sword + massive time gap + Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kindgom. Hylia's mortal reincarnation lives in this timeline, so Hyrule primarily worships Hylia. The Triforce was hidden away, as Zelda/Hylia believed it had served its purpose. The Master Sword was created how we saw it, contains Fi's Spirit, was hidden away, and is called the Sword that Seals the Darkness because it literally sealed Demise. Demise's curse allows for the Demon King to exist. The massive gap between games in this timeline allows for history to occur, and due machinations of fate present in a fantasy universe, similar events occur as in the Imprisoned Timeline. This is why there are things in BotW/TotK that seem like loose, but not concrete, references to past games

It is definitely not a perfect theory, especially since Skyward Sword at the time of release seemed to portray a time loop. We'll need an explanation of how the Isle of the Goddess rejoined on the surface in the Demise Timeline, for example

It really solves a lot. It retains a lot of old lore, like the creation of the Master Sword, why Hylia is still worshipped, and doesn’t interfere with the old timeline in weird ways. It just... makes sense.

Again, it is not perfect, we do have some minor issues here and there, but man, I can really see it.

TotK Spoilers

I think you summed up pretty well why I can’t into BotW and TotK ZeLink. I’m usually all for sworn knight and their retainer getting together but it only really works well when that knight is shown as having importance outside of their retainer and Link just doesn’t really have that and it’s incredibly weird especially since unlike in BotW where they were dead, people who should know Link here don’t and he feels like a footnote. It’s still cute and all but he feels like his only purpose is to be the dashing savior to Zelda instead of having his own community that he can have outside of Zelda as well. You could argue you’re building that up in the game but then it makes his utter lack of input and emotion regarding Zelda (especially those times when the Yiga disguise themselves as her, you would think he’d show some kind of anger at them using that appearance against him) that much worse. TotK just feels like you either choose to enjoy the community that you build up over the game or you are endlessly pining after Zelda. Her jesus status really doesn’t help but she really feels like…too perfect in this game. Like they over corrected for her flaws in BotW when those were the best parts of her and what made the moment when she unlocked her powers alongside Link actually impactful. So many of the Memories felt wasted and could have been used to establish Rauru and the past characters better but instead they feel lie they’re just there to make sure you know Zelda is super special and way way more important than just some average princess even back in the old days when people were much more powerful. It’s just sad. BotW set up a really interesting Hyrule for the two of them to rebuild but Zelda basically achieving godhood and not even having to suffer the draw backs of said decision, past Hyrule being so underwhelming along with its characters, and the really jarring lack of mentioning much of the past outside of really slight homages just makes it feel, from a story perspective, really really underwhelming. The gameplay is fun and so are some of the quests but the experience is so much better enjoyed if you just view it as Link going around Hyrule helping people out instead of a grand epic to save the princess.

I’m so glad you brought up the fact that this Zelda is basically perfect, because she is.

I never really liked this Zelda to begin with, but at least in BotW she had clear limitations to her abilities as a person and as a princess.

Here? Well, let’s just list out some of her stated accomplishments:

She is a fabulous painter (painted the Lover's Pond for Lurelin Village)

She is a good cook (taught multiple recipes to different people across Hyrule)

She is incredibly humble (as described by Sidon's stone monument of their meeting)

She is a teacher to children, and started a school

She is still a scientist of technology and other fields of science

She is now also a historian with a deep interest in Zonai architecture and history

She discovered a new species and set up a conservation

She rescued a very rare horse and adopted it

She has Light Powers, Time Powers, Hylia's Powers, AND possibly possesses the full Triforce

Her powers are more powerful than Sonia

If you consider AoC canon, she created a literal sentient robot

On top of that, she is constantly praised and worshipped by nearly every npc. Even the past characters instantly love her and adopt her.

I believe they did this due to the nature of the story structure. They needed a way to make her likable to the player, while also having her absent. So... they made her basically perfect and the one behind a lot of things in Hyrule. Nearly everything new is attributed to her.

Now yes, she is royalty and some of these are her duties. But come on, someone else could have painted the Lover’s Pond. Someone else could have discovered the new species. She didn’t have to discover the rare horse.

But that’s what they wrote and it really kinda took me out of it.

Game is still pretty fun though, probably one of the best Zelda games ever made. I just don’t really enjoy this Link and Zelda, for their lack of flaws and lack of character or place in the world.

#totk-spoilers #anon asks #Zelda discourse

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