#rewatching S3 because what else can I do???

[bylertruth3r]

Mike and Will literally share shoes (and Will might be sleeping in Mike's room) and might not be dating yet when they start dating they're gonna share a whole closet and flirt with each other about how good they look in each other's clothes and just being obnoxious (I will rewatch those scenes so many times) what if they're sharing/swapping shoes because it's the 80's and they're in a really homophobic and conservative town and if they want to give little hints that they're dating and want to openly show it (to at least their friends) they have to be subtle about it? and maybe when they're at home they share clothes without feeling like they have to be careful with how they act around each other and can be openly affectionate (like them in s2)

Thank you for pointing it out @cler1csfink

Confirmation that they're the same shoes and they're both size 10 so yeah they're sharing shoes

and Mike brought these shoes from Hawkins which means the puma suede belong to Will

and in a leaked footage El and Mike broke up/ were already broken up because Mike says "we'll still be friends" and "i wanted to tell you first" which makes me think he might have came out to her (and in that video he was literally wearing his boyfriend's shoes)

video from @nowmemoriees

in s1 during that scene on the train tracks they're friends and in the leaked video they were wearing similar clothes to what they were wearing in that s1 scene where they were friends and could trust each other. i think Mike's gonna come out to her (as gay) there which would explain why El was crying, and why Mike said "i wanted to talk to you first", in s1 Mike said "friends tell the truth" to El and in s5 it's Mike's turn to be honest about himself and maybe he'll tell her he's in love with Will or maybe he'll tell her that he's dating Will

it's the same song that played when Robin came out to Steve, obviously Steve had a crush on Robin but she's a lesbian and can only love him platonically while even though Mike tried to love El romantically he couldn't do it because he's gay and he didn't even bother to close his eyes and kiss her back

plus in a deleted script it says he was mad at himself

and the song playing when Mike and El were kissing in s3 "can't fight this feeling" is about someone being in love with their friend and not knowing what to do about it while already being in a relationship with someone else so it's about Mike being in love with Will and not knowing what to do so he represses it and pushes him away to get over him but then realizing it's not working (which is something he realized at the end of s3) and he's gay and he want on a double date with Will and Lumax after that

and Mike in s4 was trying to be normal and might be into new things (men, because dnd is not new)

and

and in s4 "in the closet at rink o mania" started playing Mike took what Will said "and us?" as romantic and felt the need to clarify that they're friends and Will said they used to be best friends and the camera panned back to Mike plus synth music is his thing since he has "Smalltown Boy" (gay song) as his first song on his spotify playlist, it's a song about a gay man leaving his homophobic town to start a new life and Finn said he wants Mike to leave Hawkins

and he has a "one way" sign pointing to his closet because he's gay and closeted and in his room he has a poster of a shirtless man while the others (Steve, B*lly, and Lucas' "friends") all have women posters because they like women

Mike being obsessed with Superman? and him having a poster of a shirtless man while Steve, B*lly and the tigers all had posters of women in bikinis (because they like girls) Will has a skinny pink panther poster in his room which symbolizes his type in men (Mike) Mike has a shirtless man poster and a buff male dragon poster which symbolizes his type in men (Will) (he's not really buff but he's stronger than Mike) they're each other's type and love each other plus you can see Mike looking at Will's arms during some scenes

also in s3 he was happy about Dustin having a gf and asked him about her but then in s4 when he "finds out" Will has a crush on a "girl" he doesn't ask him about "her" and acts distant (he was pretending he didn't care but he was jealous) and he asked Will about the painting because he was hoping it was for him (it was)

and he realized Will loves him back in the van scene, Mike wants to feel needed and Will needs him, Mike felt lost without Will, Will felt lost without Mike, Will loves him, Mike loves him back, they both think the other doesn't love them, they will prove each other wrong in s5 when Mike finds out Will lied about the painting and loves him back, they love each other the way they want to be loved

and he was so happy to see Will drew a heart on his shield

which is literally an engagement ring, no hands because they'll be more than friends in s5

they've been filming a lot at that farm.. and Ross and his wife said that they enjoyed eyewitness

and Lukas and Mike both have internalized homophobia (Lukas was dating a girl to be normal and then he breaks up with his gf and starts dating Philip,his male best friend)

and if this leak is actually correct there would be another parallel

because in eyewitness Lukas gets injured and his boyfriend stays with him and he kisses his forehead, Lukas' dad sees it (he's ok with it), it would explain why Karen was at the hospital and why they needed an ambulance on the set, so if this leak is true then Will's gonna kiss Mike's forehead and Karen is gonna see it (that would mean Mike and Will are already dating)

and in s2 Mike stayed with Will at the hospital so now it's Will's turn

they've been filming a lot at that farm.. and Ross and his wife said that they enjoyed eyewitness and they filmed at like 3 or 4 different farms (one of them has swings) and they're literally filming at one right now

more s5 leaks and Mike and El staying friends after the break up and Mike being worried for Will <33 and Mike and Robin bonding over their partners being in danger

Will is wearing one of Mike's shirts in s5, Mike wore something similar in s3 it's a gap shirt and Eddie said Mike wears gap shirts and Will has never worn something like this in the previous seasons and he didn't bring that many clothes back to Hawkins so he's gonna have to wear Mike's if he's staying at Mike's (the Wheelers added 2 chairs to their breakfast table and Will's tiger plushie is in Mike's room, it makes me think that they're already dating in the scene because Will is wearing blue yellow and green which are Byler's colors

Noah liking another byler edit? fork found in the kitchen. pic from @iamforbyler from here . there are hints that Mike and Will's first kiss will be in s5 episode 7 (during Jopper's first kiss there were boxes that said MW705, Mike and Will s5 episode 7) they definitely told him to promote Byler again to introduce Byler as boyfriends to the GA and Millie is not promoting mlvn anymore and when they asked her what her favorite pop culture couple was she said the couple from twlight instead of mlvn

Will's wearing Mike's black jeans, the blue shirt looks like something s2 Mike would wear but the undershirt looks like Will's in s4. he's just stealing his boyfriend's clothes atp because Will has never worn black jeans before and he's wearing blue (Mike's color) and Mike's the only one in the party who has worn black jeans and Will might be staying at Mike's because his tiger plushie was in Mike's room and the Wheelers added 2 chairs to their breakfast table plus Will has to stay at Mike's since he doesn't have a house in Hawkins and the cabin is too small for all the Byers to live in.

maybe he's wearing Mike's black jeans from s5 instead of the s4 ones but either way they're still Mike's jeans since Will has never worn black jeans before s5 and Mike has, Will is stealing his boyfriend's clothes, plus Mike is wearing Will's shoes in s5 <33

Byler is so obviously gonna happen even without all those proofs because they gave mlvn the stancy storyline of Nancy not being able to say "I love you" to Steve because she's in love with Jonathan and they didn't give that storyline to Jopper, Lumax and Jancy or even Duzie which are healthy couples who don't lie about who they are to each other and never felt unloved by their partners, and Mike wants to feel needed and Will needs him and El doesn't and Millie said El realized she's her own superhero and that she's gonna figure out who she is without Mike and Millie is not promoting mlvn anymore

Mike and Will spent s3 acting like they were the exes because in s2 Mike was overly affectionate with Will but he stopped doing that when he got a gf because he saw what he did as romantic so in his mind being affectionate with Will even just hugging him or just holding his hand like he did in s2 would be cheating because he's in love with Will and he's gay

Mike becomes less and less interested in El the more feminine she becomes, it becomes more difficult for him to pretend he's straight i mean he "fell in love" with her when she looked like a boy and people kept calling her a boy..

Mike probably thought she was a boy at first, everyone kept calling El the boy with the buzzcut at first in s1 and Mike said "that's not Will" instead of "that's a girl" and interesting thing is the more feminine El becomes the less interested in her Mike becomes, he probably thought El was a boy at first and she was wearing a yellow shirt (Will's color) maybe she reminded him of Will?

I mean Mike being gay aside who would you rather for him to be with?

A, with someone who doesn't understand him and he feels like he has to change himself to be with and who makes him feel insicure?

B, with someone who he feels like he can fully be himself with and who understands him and who puts him on the first place and makes him feel loved? B right? with Will

Jancy had their "we're just friends" moment and they kissed in 2 and Jopper had their "it's just 2 friends getting together for a nice dinner" moment and they kissed in s4 , Lumax had their "she's not my girlfriend" moment and they kissed in s2 and Byler had their "we're friends, we're friends" moment (started by Mike who doesn't know Will is gay) and they'll kiss in s5, there were no moments like these between Dustin and Lucas because they're not in love with each other

#stranger things #byler #mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #will byers #stranger things 4 #stranger things 5 #byler secret relationship #stranger things 3 #stranger things s5 #platonic elmike #jealous mike wheeler #wiseheart #claddagh ring #eyewitness #since i can't pin all my posts i added the most important things #philip and lukas #philkas #byler sharing clothes #byler sharing items #robin buckley #rovickie #jopper #jancy #lumax

[gentlebeardsbarngrill]

02/02/2024 Daily Recap

TLDR; SaveOFMDCrew Tumblr Updates; How To Help; Twitter Hashtags; Daily Lists; Reminders: Appreciation Events; Live Rewatch OFMD Party with Q+; Operation Auxiliary Wardrobe; Cast & Crew Sightings; New Watch Partys; Actually reasonable Articles; Stats; Petition Status; Morale; Love Notes; Daily Darby/Tonight's Taika

= Save OFMD Crew Tumblr Up =

The SaveOFMDCrew Tumblr is finally up and running! Due to some weirdness with accounts they'll be under @saveofmdcrewmates as opposed to the regular name. This will have the same news as the other platforms so feel free to give them a follow.

== How To Help ==

Twitter folks: looks like @SaveOFMDCrew as well as several other people who've been leading the charge on twitter wanted to remind everyone on when to use what hashtags. Apparently there's been some cross pollination and they wanted to try and clear it up. Thank you to @havethisonelife for summarising.

Haterade Posts:

#OhBloysHeMad , #TheNumbersWereThere, #FinishOurStories Avoid: #DontStreamOnMax

When Advertising ourselves:

#SaveOFMD #AdoptOurCrew

Horny Posts:

No tags (Edit: @SaveOFMDCrew said it was ok to use #OurFlagMeansDeath on horny posts, just no other tags).

Suggestions for How to Help

Looking for ways to help? There are still daily ideas for you here: How To Help Save OFMD Task List - US How to Help Save OFMD Task List - Outside US

==Reminders!==

Cast Appreciation Events!

Tomorrow is Day of Damien! A day to shower Damien Gerard (Father Teach) with support and kindness for all he's done for our fandom! He has been hitting #SaveOFMD events pretty hard trying to support us! 

When to start: Saturday February 3rd, 6 AM CST, 7 AM ET, 4 AM PT, 12 PM GMT  Hashtags: #DayOfDamien

His Social Media Accounts:

Linktree (has his cashapp, etc) / Instagram / Twitter / Twitch / Tiktok

== Live - Rewatch Party with Q+! ==

This rewatch party is particularly important because the crew is really trying to get people hyped for the BBC launch of s2 on Feb 5. Everyone is hoping that if the s2 launch in the UK shows huge interest it'll be a huge boon for the potential for s3 with the networks.

Sunday Feb 4, 2 PM GMT / 9 AM ET / 6 AM PT

Watch Party Hashtags:

#OurFlagMeansRewatch

#AdoptOurCrew

#SaveOFMD

#OurFlagBBC

=Operation Auxiliary Wardrobe=

Do you do applique, crochet, cross stitch, embroidery, knitting, needle felt or any other textile-based OFMD Art? Wanna join a fun group of participants? Starting next week there will be a recruiting drive for a new fabric+thread project mid-month if people are interested! If you want to jump in now you can message @ForceMonument on twitter, otherwise other avenues will be opened sometime in the coming weeks!

=Cast & Crew Sightings =

This is from 01/26/2024 but I missed it and I feel like it needs to be shared. Dominic Burgess being a goofball badass as Jeffrey Fettering singing a 18th century version of the Friends theme song. <3 (Apologies for the quality of the video, I had to record it off my screen so people didn't have to go to Twitter). Twitter Post.

Wee John Wednesdays Mondays are back!

Mon 5th Feb, 10.30pm on Kristian Nairn's Instagram

=NEW WATCH PARTIES =

You can see a running list of current/upcoming watch parties here.

Thank you @libbyroseitm for the new Watch Party!

Uncle Season 1 watch party on i-player. Thurs 15th + Fri 16th Feb (GMT - 8 PM , ET - 3PM, PST - 12 PM)

Catered specifically for the UK crew, but we'd be thrilled for anyone else using VPN's to join in too! Here's an article on how to join via VPN

WatchParty Hashtags:

#ForTheNewUncle

#SaveOFMD

#AdoptOurCrew

== Articles ==

Finally! The Q+ Article is wonderful and very uplifting.

Our Flag Means Death: Why It Deserves to Find a New Harbor

The 10 best TV shows to watch this week, from Mr and Mrs Smith to One Day

Hairy Bikers Go West, Death In Paradise and Wheel of Fortune: TV highlights this week

The Uncertain Fate of “Our Flag Means Death” Season 3: A Closer Look

Every show canceled so far in 2024

Netflix adds one of ‘the best shows of 2022’ after it was dropped by HBO Max

== STATS ==

Thanks to @Seven_Sugars over on twitter for this info and analysis.

Also, as always, more fun stats from @meowzawowza on twitter from the Netherlands.

== Petition Status ==

Almost to 84K signatures friends!

== Morale ==

I know we're ending day 24 of being the Gravy Basket. It's been a lonnnnng several weeks. We haven't heard from chaos dad in around a week now, so it may seem again like things are slowing down again. As several folks have mentioned before, not every day can be ground breaking, but seeing everyone in the community getting together, having fun with watch parties, discussing ofmd meta, making new art and fanfiction, it feels like the momentum is still there. We often don't see many updates on the weekend so take this time to relax, take a break, maybe do the rewatch party if you have time on Sunday. I did want to bring up, this article on The Tourist is cool because it highlights that HBOMax has cancelled some very highly rated shows in the past and Netflix has picked up on them-- and while we didn't see anything from the 2024 Netflix announcements (as @poison-into-positivity mentioned, even if it was picked up it wouldn't be for 2024) that doesn't mean it's not still a possibility. So don't give up hope. It's going to take some time to get through to the networks, and we'll keep keeping at it.

If you are feeling down or concerned, be sure to reach out to your fellow crew, we're all here for you.

== Love Notes ==

Hey lovelies. You are so incredibly strong, do you know that? No matter what's going on in your life, you're still here. Every single day you get back up, and you keep going. That is incredibly powerful, and incredibly strong, and don't let anyone tell you any different. Do you think our buddy Rhys let's anyone tell him he's not the baddest ass mf on the planet? Nope.

If all you did today was get out of bed, or take a shower, or walk your dog, and nothing else, you kicked today's ass. If you wrote fanfiction, or watched a tv show, you kicked today's ass. They say that "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and while I see where that phrase is coming from I like to think of it a bit differently. What doesn't kill you, gives you a glimpse of just how strong you already were. You are the reason you are kind, you are the reason you are strong, you are the reason you continue to grow. You. Outside forces can help shape you, but you have always been strong even when you have felt your weakest, it's just not always easy to see. That strength is so important, and so is your need to rest. Remember to take a break from all the stressors of your life, whether that be a shower, or a 5 minute walk, or a day or a week away from the internet, whatever works for you. Even the strongest bridge in the world can break when there's too much weight on it. That doesn't mean the bridge is any less strong, it means something extremely heavy pushed it past its limits. Anyway, enough of my ramblings, just please know, everyone out here in the crew are so incredibly proud of you, we're rooting for you, and we're so very grateful you're still here with us.

===================================

Speaking of resting....Reminder! No recap for 02/03/2024 unless someone else wants to do one! Please feel free to, obviously! I will be off drinking after taking a dip in some hotsprings and then watching OFMD with two friends who have yet to see it. So if I show up lurking and drunk-tumblr you all, I sincerely apologize, but I hope if I do that drunk Abby is at least amusing. Love yall <3

===================================

== Daily Darby / Tonight's Taika ==

If you wanna see someone else other than these two in these gifs from OFMD let me know, we can switch it up a bit.

#ofmd daily recap #ofmd daily recaps #daily ofmd recap #daily ofmd recaps #ofmd #our flag means death #stede bonnet #gentlebeard #renew as a crew #edward teach #save ofmd #rhys darby #blackbonnet #save our flag means death #Taika Waititi #adopt our crew #ofmd renewal #renew our flag means death

[emblazons]

I said I was gonna so a whole long post about the monologue after my rewatch so: having watched the whole Vecna monologue v Mike monologue that happens in the Piggyback in full for the first time in actual months…god damn. Just.

There is no way to understand what’s happening with El (and her relationship with Mike) during the monologue without looking at Vecna's monologue that comes right before it. There just isn’t, and if you try you’re 100% going to miss critical context for why things happen the way they do both in mlvn’s relationship and on screen.

First off: after what Vecna says to her, El is fully in self-defeat (and self-loathing) mode. She’d just learned that every single attempt of hers to do "right" with the knowledge she had at the time had actually been useful to the person destroying her world—

—and despite trying so hard to overcome her sense of destructiveness about things like scaring Mike and hitting Angela by going to “learn who she is” at Nina, it turned out that even the moments she perceived as her “heroic” ones (like closing the gate and stopping the mindflayer monster in S3) were actually tools useful to Vecna…just like her Piggybacking in to save Max.

El is literally hearing that even her best attempts at being “good” were used for evil, which makes her an accomplice to Vecna even if she didn’t mean to be—

—which we're shown, as El remembers all the moments she thought she was "helping" only to be told each one of those was her having her powers used by Henry/Vecna.

If that wasn't enough, we literally watched as El paralleled herself directly to the person whose powers are now being used to destroy the world, even as we (the audience) know most of what is happening is just Vecna do what he does best by tapping into her deepest core fears.

Vecna adds insult to injury here by making it clear that he once "wanted her by his side" in the first place (aka the powers she's been trying to use for good cannot be divorced from bad things)—

—and from this second onward (in El's perception at least) there is no way for her powers to be used correctly even when she wants to be helpful—which is why she “gives up,” lets the vine loop around her neck in the first place, and stares unmoving and crying at Max.

Basically: What Vecna says steals even the little resolve she gained back at Nina…which is why she stops fighting entirely.

Now, all of this is an extremely fair reason to feel defeated and dejected about trying to fight (on top of traumatizing af for El)—

—the problem is (like everything else wrong in their relationship) Mike once again has no sense of El’s internal state because she doesn’t and has not historically shared it (or can’t in this case), and therefore can only answer what he externally perceives her state to be—which he guesses, based on their last argument, has to do with him not being able to say he loves her.

The disjointedness between what is really happening with El and what Mike wrongly perceives the issue to be is why we see El not only look repeatedly displeased by his confession—

—but why the only thing she can think of in relation to Mike positively is his initial rescue, when he takes her to a space where her powers are neutral / unknown (and not the force for evil even her best attempts at using them just became in her mind).

That dissonance is also why she doesn’t fight until he starts saying she need to get over herself and save someone else…which is why she looks at Max and decides to fight anyway.

In truth, Mike could have glossed over the entirety of the “I love you," "not I'm scared of you but I’m afraid of losing you” part and just said “I believe you can do anything, but right you need to fight” and gotten the same result, given that what needed to be addressed was her self-loathing, not Mike’s (lack of) romantic affections.

Basically: even if they weren’t on the precipice of a breakup, Mike’s love wasn’t going to make up for the fact that El has basically just learned that what Brenner said was true—she wasn’t ready, not even physically, but mentally…because she was not prepared to learn that even her best attempts at saving the world were actually helping Henry build to the end of it.

Combine that with the fact that she ends up losing Max despite trying to fight with Mike's encouragement...on top of the fact that all of her relationship with Mike was rooted in her wanting to feel "normal" (aka what Vecna just shot out the window permanently)?

...no amount of "I love you's" from a boy as insecure as Mike (who she keeps at emotional distance) is was going to help that, especially given that Mike was directly mirroring what Brenner (who she literally cannot stand atp) said to her trying to encourage her.

All of this...we haven't even touched on anything happening on Mike's side or how her powers (that he so admires her for) are now officially "evil" in El's mind, never mind every other aspect of their incompatibility? ☠️

—I know I'm gonna move from this post on to how what Brenner said to her about "facing the good and the bad / humans are rarely so simple" is actually how El's arc has to be resolved in the end, but.

For now I'm at 30 images and anything more would get convoluted easy, so I'll just leave us (and my million mile an hour thoughts) here.

#this post turned out so long but I HAD to get it out before it drove me insane lmao #byler #< target audience #anti mlvn #el hopper #mike wheeler #martin brenner #my s4 rewatch #henry creel #vecna #my st commentary #stranger things

[gffa]

The latest ending of Ahsoka really made me realize one of the big problems with Felony's writing and why so much of the Masndo-verse and Felony's modern writing falls flat compared to OWK and Andor. Shock value. A BIG twist cliffhanger that leaves us all mouth open and HYPING up the next episode in hope and filling the forums with discussions in anticipation. Understandably, he can't write what we wrote in our heads for 7 days and top that. 1.

2. But once that shock is gone when the story has moved onto the next big thing, or you watch it again when you know what it pays off in, or watch the whole series or season again, it just doesn't hold up. It's empty. Vapid. Because it's all about the shock. The twist. The discussion. The hype fodder. It's not saying anything or adding anything. OWK and Andor was a lot better at that, without the use of the nostalgia baiting that Felony relies on. 3. It becomes an endless circle of low lows and high highs, while OWK and Andor both slowly built up to the crescendo of discussions and speculations and both have stayed in the fandom consciousness alot longer thanks to that. And because they have something to say, both to the world and to the viewer. While with the Felony and the Fraudrou verses, it's just a constant barrage of oh wow, moving on, what's next? ehh, it's over, let's move on.

I feel like one day I'm going to do a longer analysis on why exactly Filoni's writing feels weak to me (where I try to be more fair than I'm usually feeling about his writing), because I don't think he's without a lot of talent and there's certain things he really does get about Star Wars, but I think so much comes back to that he's a writer who is caught in a difficult position--playing in someone else's sandbox but has to now establish his own new corners of that sandbox and I'm not sure he's strong enough to be a big picture kind of guy when he works better in smaller focus. His work on TCW and Rebels is content that we do come back to again and again for analysis, during my rewatches of both those series, those shows hold up! But I think they're ones where he had stronger guardrails up, and he was forced to stick to things in one place. I think live action has been bad for Filoni's writing because of the way so much is structured, that there are multiple series going on and I feel like his writing doesn't have the patience to actually tell a story in a single space, that's why we get Grogu's story being split between The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett, that's why we get Mandalore's story being splintered across Rebels, The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, and now Ahsoka. We still haven't even seen half of the events that happen in the Mandalore bigger story! And you're right that he and Favreau both lean too hard on the cameos and echoes/rhymes for nostalgia's sake. And those reference points are often extremely fun in the moment! And I'll grant that the Luke episodes are ones I go back to fairly often, because I think there's some really good content in there about what attachment actually means. But I don't think it's that surprising, looking back, how quickly the Favroni shows fell apart for us and how it doesn't feel like they're establishing anything that can support a bunch of books and comics. I suspect that Disney's not allowed to have books/comics/etc. based on Favroni's shows because they want creative control over those characters while they're still actively writing for them, but also I look at the OT and the PT and look how much was built off those movies+TCW as a foundation, I look at how much you're able to still watch those and find new things to analyze, and I just don't feel that with Filoni's writing anymore, not since Rebels, not to that level, anyway. (I'll grant that I've been a lot more excited about the Ahsoka series and what we can say about it/find in analyzing it than I expected, I expected nothing but shitposts like we did with Mandalorian s3, but I've had fun with serious meta in Ahsoka! I was genuinely excited to come on-line after episode 4 and talk about themes and structure and how well Filoni did with that there!) Ultimately, I think Filoni (and Favreau) both have a lot of talent, but I think they're being pushed too hard to make too much too quickly and that it shows that they're making this up as they go along, rather than that they had a vision they've been crafting for years and any kind of idea of where they want the end goal to be. Like, yeah, Lucas wrote some stuff on the fly, he changed his mind about things along the way, but he had an end point in mind for his story, so the echoes/rhymes felt more resonant for me. Favroni don't feel like they have any idea where they're going and so much winds up feeling like shock value and self-reference for nostalgia bad for me instead of something that's Going Somewhere.

#lumi.txt #star wars #dave filoni #sw negativity

[saglaophonos]

i keep seeing ppl talk about 1941 theories where *something happened* afterwords, and do you know why that is? i haven’t rewatched the 1941 minisode in a hot minute, but was there stuff there that gave off the impression that more happened? /gen

oh that’s a great question and i would love to answer it. there is nothing especially suggestive that something else happened in 1941 apart from aziraphale claiming to have also done the apology dance that year in an earlier episode. however i have always loved the idea of going back to 1941 in s3, which i dont see as a “theory” in so much as i see it as a great place of potential for the story. personally, i see the original 1941 scene as an integral part of the creative process behind s1 for reasons i won’t reiterate here when i can just link you to the post i made about it.

there is something to be said about how 1941 is the only flashback we return to in s1 and s2. the “rule of threes” girlie in me just thinks about how if there are going to be three seasons, there ought to be three 1941 scenes. “nightingale in berkeley square” is literally a song about two lovers spending the night together until dawn….1941 is a long night, but we haven’t seen dawn yet. ultimately there’s great storytelling potential in telling a three part flashback that you can only understand the impact of in its totality once you’ve seen the last part.

if i can predict anything about what neil gaiman may or may not do as a writer, i know he enjoys subverting audience expectations and preheld assumptions - i mean, look to the opening of s2 during the pre-fall scene. i could very easily see a return to 1941 being the opening of s3 and functioning in a similar way in retconning the story in the present. in fact i have written my pitch for what i think that would look like lol

so to answer your question! nothing has especially gave off an impression that the story will go back to 1941. however i have full convinced myself that it is happening because it should lol. @moonyinpisces do you want to jump in here at all lmfao

#tldr i am a clown #ask #good omens

[transmutationisms]

do you have any insight on roman and incest? i know that in succession, business = fucking and at some points all of the sibs talk about fucking their dad as in one upping him business wise, but ceirtain comments roman makes are obviously different. i've been rewatching s3 and he joked about repetedly entering his mother's vagina at ken's birthday, in that same episode he tells shiv that she's mad logan doesn't want to fuck her anymore bc he's fucking roman now... also when he tells her she can be his sexy secretary when he takes over, and many more examples

and this last episode when he was listening to that edited video of logan over and over, i know i'm not the only one who thought he might start jacking off... i guess my question is do you think roman has any actual incestuous desires? and if not, why does he say these things? is it attention seeking? trying to make people uncomfortable?

first of all, the jacking off undertones of that deepfake scene were absolutely there on purpose. i mean, what logan is 'saying' in that clip echoes the sort of dirty talk gerri used to provide, and the reason for that is because the whole driving force of the roman-gerri affair was him getting her to say things that logan used to say about him. gerri was always a daddy proxy for him; it was always about him jacking off to the way his father verbally degraded him, but then combined with gerri's willingness to serve as an actual business mentor for him, something logan would never do because he was frankly just disgusted at roman as a general rule.

which is to say: yes, roman has some genuine incestuous desire for his father, to the same degree that anyone else with a negative oedipus complex does. and this is central, i think, to the critique of the nuclear family that runs through succession. these psychoanalytic complexes are products of that family structure, which is itself embedded within the capitalist mode of production. roman's subconscious desire to fuck/marry his father is, the show suggests, just a more overt manifestation of the standard dysfunction that inherently plagues the social form of the family. it's elevated because of the degree of control logan asserted over roman, even well into adulthood, and the way his wealth and corporate power created that dynamic. but the suggestion here is not that the roys are uniquely incestuous or that roman is intrinsically a pervert; it's that family structures, which are capitalist structures, create this type of psychosexual (under)development. it's freud if he slayed (was friends with wilhelm reich and gilles deleuze).

i don't think we have any textual reason to think roman has incestuous desire for his other family members. he talks like that for a handful of other reasons. with the caroline stuff, he's partly just responding to shiv and logan accusing him of wanting to fuck her (logan does this because he thinks roman is a pervert but can't consciously face the fact that he's, like, gay for real, so his catholic brain goes straight to He's A Boy Who Wants To Fuck His Mother; shiv makes these accusations partly for similar reasons of seeing roman as dirty / perverted / abnormal and having no other explanation, and partly because she's deflecting from her own glaring caroline issues).

with the shiv stuff, this is sort of central to their relationship—that they both make crude sexual comments to each other. it's part of how they negotiate that rivalry-camaraderie thing. it's almost cute. also, most of these comments are so off-base that they're not actually bothered by them; it's noticeable when one of them actually crosses a line (like shiv saying "some day you're actually going to have to fuck something").

overall roman's relationship to his own sexuality is fraught, partly because of logan's homophobia and resulting surveillance of roman's sexual expression, and partly because of roman's relationship with his body. also, like his siblings, roman grew up in the middle of the sexual violence corporation. he doesn't really know how to think about sex in any way besides as a violation, and this is reflected in how he talks about it. he uses incestuous or sexually crude jokes as a way to deflect from certain emotional intimacies, to present himself as disgusting so that he can pre-empt other people making him feel that way, and as a way of conveying his sense that he's at the bottom of the hierarchy and is emotionally, physically, and sexually vulnerable.

#you eat me i eat you

[radiosummons]

There is no doubt in my mind that I am most definitely not the first person to bring this up, but after doing a quick rewatch of Hunt for Ziro (TCW, S3 EP9) I can't help but feel ... just kinda disappointed.

Granted, when I first saw this episode I had no idea who Quinlan was or what his relationship to Obi-Wan was other than he was a fellow Jedi Master who Obi-Wan considered a "bit much" (which is extremely rich coming from Obi-Wan, cause HELLO!!!).

But now knowing what I do know about Quinlan, my god, I can't help but sorta feel like they did him just the tiniest bit dirty. The episode by no means takes away my enjoyment of the character or the show, but I wish they had given him more.

I will say that there are a LOT of things I do love about this episode. For starters, the little exchange between Obi-Wan and Cody at the start of the episode is absolute gold to me. Considering that only does Obi-Wan not waste the opportunity to complain about his childhood friend, but that even Cody is already aware of Quinlan's reputation is a great way to introduce the audience to what kind of person this new Jedi is.

(My little headcanon is that Cody knows about Quinlan due to Obi-Wan going on several mini rants from his General about his "troublesome" Jedi friend, but I'd also just accept the idea that Quinlan is just that fucking infamous in the GAR lol).

It's barely even been a full minute and we already know several things about Quinlan. 1) He has a reputation for being "extra," or at the very least according to Obi-Wan's standards (which, again, fucking WILD), 2) The fact that he's late for a mission and Obi-Wan isn't the least bit surprised tells us this is pretty much the norm for him, and 3) Even the clones are aware of who Quinlan is and what kind of Jedi he is.

The scene then continues with Quinlan finally showing up for his joint mission with Obi-Wan. But because Quinlan is Quinlan, instead of just waiting for the gunship to land, the motherfucker takes the opportunity to dramatically leap and land onto the platform.

Just ... absolute perfection with this character already.

Also, the fact that he follows up said dramatic entrance by taking the time to greet Cody just automatically wins him more points in my book. I love that the TCW writers made a point to show that Quinlan despite being an "odd Jedi," also sees the clones as people. His very friendly and nonchalant way of greeting Cody could also imply--although I'm not sure this is accurate or not--that he's either 1) Already met Cody or 2) Knows about Cody (possibly through Obi-Wan) and possibly already considers him a friend, if not someone he could become friends with.

I don't even mind The Big Lebowski reference inserted into Quinlan's introduction when he nonchalantly brushes off Obi-Wan's obvious annoyance at being made to wait.

Honestly, it's kind of iconic to see someone rebuff Obi-Wan's charm with a simple "Well ... that's just your opinion, man." And knowing what I do know now about them both growing up together, it is absolutely hilarious to see Obi-Wan just silently take that response. Because he knows Quinlan, and he knows his sense of humor. So instead of trying to come up with something witty back as he usually would do with anyone else, Obi-Wan just has to quietly glare at him and refuse to rise to the bait.

The transition from Quinlan's nonchalantless to business and then back again is also fun to watch. Even while Obi-Wan is trying to direct the conversation to solely focus on their mission's purpose, Quinlan is helpfully and not so helpfully sharing what extra bit of intel he has. It's very clear that he's comfortable with Obi-Wan, in that he can slip in a bit of playfulness into what is a very serious conversation but also still keep focus. It's also fun to see Obi-Wan sort of at ease with Quinlan's way of communicating, considering he's had years of living and working alongside Quinlan.

It doesn't stop him from being exasperated at his friend's antics, though. Which is charming in itself to see. Especially when Quinlan offers Obi-Wan to be his copilot, and Obi-Wan easily resigns himself to his fate.

Anyway, I do love that the majority of the episode is an omage to Indiana Jones movies (namely, Temple of Doom), but also to gangster and crime thriller films. Which was absolutely a perfect choice for Quinlan considering that his experiences as a Shadow involved a great deal of missions infiltrating criminal undergrounds and the like.

And the grey morality that is often presence in those types of films is a great compliment to Quinlan, as he while he's still a Jedi, he doesn't hold as strictly to the etiquette and more "refined" tactics of his fellow Jedi. It's also just a nice reference to his own struggles with the Dark Side. And pairing him up with Obi-Wan--his close friend and the one responsible for helping him return to the Light--is just the perfect sort of complimentary team format that is to be expected with those films.

Also this moment:

**A totally not accurate, but very accurate summary of events**

Quinlan: KRIFF THIS DOOR!!!

Obi-Wan: Quin, you can't just barge into people's houses-

Quinlan: Sure I can. I just did.

Fucking iconic.

(As a quick side note, I do love that they took a moment to show off Quinlan's psychometry abilities. Just A+ work right there).

I do also understand that the budget was very limited for TCW (considering that they held off until S3 to debut Quinlan due to the costs of creating yet another character model) and I am very grateful that they were able to give him his own episode. But I can't help wishing we had a little more.

Especially towards the end of the episode. Quinlan just sort of goes completely mute. It is fantastic to see him fight Cad Bane (considering bounty hunters with Cad Bane's skills would be right up Quinlan's alley) and watching him investigate alongside Obi-Wan is also a lot of fun to watch. But it is odd for their banter to just sort of peter off to the point that Obi-Wan is pretty much the only person speaking for the majority of the episode's run time.

The moment where Obi-Wan and Quinlan are hanging from the cliff really sticks out to me the most in this episode. When Obi-Wan says to him "I never did enjoy hanging out with you"--while very funny and a nice reference to their friendship--I can't help but being the tiniest bit disappointed that Quinlan doesn't respond with more than a small smug smile. Granted, the fact he just smiles is funny. But Idk. I'm aware I'm just nitpicking at this point, but I would have loved to hear any sort of verbal response from Quinlan to that, no matter how minor.

I don't know if the budget was extra limited due to Quinlan's new character model being added to the episode, if Quinlan's voice actor just wasn't available to read anymore lines, what production problems may have arisen while creating the episode, or if the script simply just didn't have any other speaking lines for Quinlan. But, uh, yeah. I would have loved just a little something more from him.

Because prior to me finding out more about Quinlan over the years, my initial impression was that Quinlan and Obi-Wan were more colleagues than actual childhood friends. And not just childhood friends, but friends who had a very complicated but overall very sweet friendship despite the hardships they shared.

And I just think that's sort of a shame.

Yes, his character model does appear again in a later TCW episode (Destiny, S6, EP12), but only as a character model/easter egg. And while it did touch me that the Kenobi Show confirmed that Quinlan had survived Order 66 (yes, I did cry when that reveal happened, shut up), I still would find myself wishing we had more on screen Quinlan Vos content.

Just because Quinlan really is an amazing character and I absolutely adore his relationship with Obi-Wan and his padawan, Aayla Secura. He's genuinely a fascinating character to read about in the comics and even more so for the fact that his struggles with the Dark Side did not prevent him from continuing to be a good person.

I think what I just want more than anything is for more people to be exposed to how great Quinlan is. I'm not expecting a Quinlan centric show to up anytime in the future and I don't expect people to go out of their way to read the comics and books about yet another SW character. I just wish more people knew what a fantastic character he is. Especially his wonderful relationships with Obi-Wan and Aayla.

Tldr: I just want people to know how great Quinlan is. Also, give me baby Quinlan and Obi-Wan being the absolute chaos gremlins they are!!! Also, just more Quinlan content in general. I would love that :3

#star wars meta #quinlan vos #quinlan #tcw #the clone wars #hunt for ziro #obi wan kenobi #tcw obi wan #aayla secura #this is a longer post than my usual #but i just think he's neat #and i want more people to know #that quinlan is neat too #edited this post to include the keep reading option #just so people wouldn't have to scroll through #this admittedly quite long post #tumblr is eating my formatting #idk i'll figure it out later

[hpowellsmith]

Right now I’m planning and doing a bit of coding for Honor Bound Chapter 10 and am struggling for health reasons. Nothing really major but I've been suddenly fully hit with another cold today, plus I'm recovering from a tattoo (which is lovely! just bad timing with everything else), plus back pain, and a couple of other things… have left me without the energy or ability to do much on the computer. It’s frustrating because I had been really hoping to get a lot done in the back half of March which just hasn’t happened as I wanted to.

So I’m trying to sleep as much as I can and ride it out. And rewatch Season 1 of How To Get Away With Murder, because it's superb in a bunch of ways and I haven't watched it since about 2015 (I got to somewhere in S3 and it became too grim for me to cope with but who knows, maybe I'll get further this time). I have a lot of good feelings about the flashforwards and what they do to the pacing and character focus. Anyway it's nice to be thinking about fictional characters' beautiful haircuts rather than how gross I feel.

#personal #Honor Bound sort of #but more about lying in bed feeling sorry for myself

[inevitably-johnlocked]

A Breakdown of My Thoughts On Good Omens S2

(That may or may not also be a meta about my predictions for the future interwoven in)

Hey All!

All right, I’ve officially watched Good Omens Season 2 twice, and am almost done my third time through, and I want to put out some thoughts before I start reading other people’s meta about S2 so that my initial thoughts aren’t influenced by those. I was GOING to post it to my GO blog @inevitably-ineffable-husbands first, but decided instead to make the initial post here since this is my largest audience (my GO blog is mostly a reblog blog, but it’s been pretty active the past week with people sending me asks there!).

During my second watch-through, I took some notes about stuff I wanted to expand upon. This got a bit messy, long, and disorganized so I tried to just clean up those notes so they’re more legible. I think I inevitably want to write separate meta about each section, especially after my next few rewatches (AND especially since I want to talk more about 3 or four Big Thoughts that I have about S3). 

This meta turned out to be a lengthy essay-style meta with a few bits of point form and free thoughts, broken into sections for easier consumption, so I hope you will give it a read through. It’s longer than I intended (it’s about 5,000 words), so if you need to pause anywhere, I’ve conveniently broken it up into sections below the cut, which you can see the breakdown of here:

Before The Beginning

Crowley is A-Major-Angel Theory (or The Angel That Crowley Might Actually Have Been)

Maggie and Nina (Mirrors. It’s about mirrors)

The Ineffable Bureaucracy (MORE MIRRORS YAY I LOVE DYING!)

Crowley and Aziraphale (& Their Relationship Arc) (which includes my thoughts on THAT moment and why it was wrong)

The Metatron and Aziraphale’s Decision (I actually covered a large chunk of this on THIS POST so you can read just that if you want instead)

Other Things (That I Didn’t Know Where Else to Put) 

Final Thoughts

Also, so it’s not hidden under the cut, here are the things I’m interested in expanding upon in the future, if you guys would like to read more. The first one is the only “for sure” one on my plate right now:

A Thought on AziraCrow from an A-Spec Perspective [REDUX]: An expansion on the above-linked meta I put out a week ago about their relationship arc and how I feel it’s being portrayed and what it means foor the future.

THAT Scene Small Thoughts: And its importance RIGHT NOW and why the confession will be so much more powerful in S3. Actually I think I MIGHT cover this in the AziraCrow meta, but I DO want to expand upon the scene anyway regardless.

And I don’t have many things to say as of finishing this meta, but I would like to put out my thoughts on why Aziraphale made That Choice. (EDIT: It would be an expansion on THIS POST which would include some points I made under the cut in the various sections, compiled together. I know I’ll have more thoughts as the weeks move on and as I understand the scene more and more).

Anyway, I hope you enjoy what I’ve written! The next meta I’d like to tackle is the Relationship Redux meta, provided that the asks I got in my inbox aren’t going to take up too much of my time.

Feel free to add your thoughts in the reblogs and replies as usual! I welcome other opinions and thoughts, and I will try my best to keep all the threads together. This blog is and will always remain a community project! :) 

PLEASE be advised, in that case, that Spoilers WILL BE in the notes, and OBVIOUSLY there are spoilers below the cut for the entire season! Cheers, and thank you! Enjoy!

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BEFORE THE BEGINNING

I have running theory that’s kind of on strings right now, but I feel like Aziraphale feels responsible for Crowley’s Fall, that he feels he didn’t do enough to help prevent it, which may explain his actions in Episode 6. 

Now, I’m not saying that the entire reason he spends so much time with Crowley is because of some underlying guilt, NOT AT ALL (just a small part of it), but more that he feels like he could have done more to dissuade Crowley from asking questions – It’s why he spends their entire lives trying to convince Crowley he is good! Aziraphale loved seeing an angel so happy with what they were doing, and his warnings were making Crowley unhappy. Instead, Aziraphale decided to compliment Crowley on his work to make him smile again. I think it’s absolutely something to note since this scene and the finale of E6 suspiciously bookend each other, meant to be compared and contrasted with each other. 

When Azzie is presented with the opportunity to give Crowley back something he loved doing – being happy making galaxies – Aziraphale took it, because he knows how much Crowley struggles with his own sense of self.

Unfortunately, Azzie thinks Crowley’s inner turmoil is because of who he is and his status as a demon, not because Aziraphale is literally his whole raison d’être and why Crowley keeps coming back to him – he’s only ever truly happy being around Aziraphale.

Crowley, in turn, has become Azzie’s own reason for being, he just sadly hasn’t come to that conclusion yet at this point in the story. Aziraphale thinks that by being the Supreme Archangel, he will have the authority to make things RIGHT, not knowing the info that we as an audience have through Crowley that that is FAR from the truth. I’ll go more into it in my Metatron section below.

Basically I’m saying that this sequence at the beginning exists to show who Aziraphale is as a person, an angel who struggles with his OWN sense of self and his desire to do good and make people happy. Aziraphale is so consumed with believing that he can change things if only he has some control over a situation, then it can all be better; he fails to see that he already has everything he wants right in front of him. He doesn’t think he can TRULY be with Crowley safely unless something changes the status quo, and he naïvely thinks that taking the job is the best way to do so. I think next season we will see Aziraphale finally understand that he CAN’T be “free” until he accepts that he and Crowley ARE better as one. 

Another note I wanted to make about this is just an aside commentary: Aziraphale ABSOLUTELY was smitten by Crowley. I suspect until he met Crowley, Aziraphale had never seen another angel be so joyous in his work. It intrigued Azzie and blossomed into something-unknown in him.

Azzie was smitten since before the beginning, and that he indeed pines for Crowley. He’s just terrified about what happens After if he were to do anything about it.

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CROWLEY-IS-RAPHAEL THEORY (or another Top-Ranking Angel)

This is one of my favourite theories that circulates in the fandom, and I went into a bit of detail about this on this post here, but I want to expand more upon it briefly (hah).

I think this season further proved Crowley was A Big Angel™ before he Fell (not necessarily Raphael, but it IS the prominent theory about his identity). It’s a Big Point that I think they’ve been planting the seeds for in both seasons so that we as the audience can figure it out; maybe not exactly WHO Crowley was (the general audience wouldn’t know about the theory), more that Crowley was indeed a higher ranking angel than all of them. This could be a big reveal in S3 for the general audience, and will be the reward for the “easter eggs” that the fans picked up on. 

Here are the clues that I have so far, both from the fandom theories for S1, and my own observations of S2... I have not read any meta yet as of writing this, so I probably missed some if people are talking about it:

Raphael is notably missing from the main Archangels. It’s very odd, because he was a prominent figure in a story about Abraham

When we first see Crowley in S2, we see him as the primary creator of the universe. That kind of task isn’t given to just any angel. We knew in S1 that Crowley created stars, just not the full story of it.

The only Top Angel who recognizes Crowley is Saraqael and we don’t find that out until Episode 6. They mention that the two worked together during the creation of a nebula. Saraqael is just as old as Crowley and was there Before the Beginning as well. Michael, Uriel, and Gabriel don’t recognize Crowley when they come down during Job’s trials, meaning that Crowley probably Fell before they came to be Top Level Angels. 

“A throne, a dominion or ABOVE” is who Muriel said were the only angel classes that could open the file on Gabriel, and Crowley literally just opens it without issue. Crowley faffs it off as an old password (but even then, why would he HAVE an old password for a confidential file?) but I think it’s more true that he actually had and hasn’t lost the clearance he had as a higher order of angel. Muriel NEVER stated that an Archangel can open the file at ALL. BUT I think Gaiman’s Archangels are technically top of the chain so they possibly are able to open the files as well.   For shits and giggles, I actually looked into the orders of angels: Muriel’s listed angels are part of the top 4 levels of Angel rankings. Now, I know that the authors took creative liberty with Capital A-Archangels for story purposes, but it’s a very interesting thought, isn’t it? I wonder if Crowley was actually one of the first Supreme Archangels? Just something to nibble on until S3.

The INSANE power level of HALF of a bit of a small miracle from TWO people that can raise 25 dead people is very interesting thing to literally flash red in your face as if to say “THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER, DON’T FORGET IT”. Why? Why make this the catalyst of events in the series if it’s not important and won’t be brought up again? Was Crowley’s power the one that set off alarms in Heaven since his part was to hide Gabe from Heaven?

The writers have deliberately avoided giving us Crowley’s name in Before the Beginning. Crowley has a penchant for changing his name when he wants to distance himself from the past, and there’s a good chance he purposely threw away his Heavenly (dead) name to cast aside any memories of that former life. It’s not who he is anymore, nor who he wants to be ever again.

Crowley constantly references the problems with Heaven, stuff that Aziraphale seems to have no knowledge of. 

Crowley has an uncanny sense of where Aziraphale is and what he’s up to at all times. Actually, he’s able to sense trouble from everyone regardless. NOW, this might be down to him just... being so smitten with Aziraphale that perhaps he’s purposely attuned his senses to him, but none of the other angels nor demons seem to be able to do this unless it’s with their own kind. Crowley seems to have it for everyone. This is an odd power for one “measly demon” to have.

I’m certain I’m missing a few other easter eggs here that were mentioned, but in the interim, I think these definitely the ones that are worth noting.

“One Character Split Into Two”

I’ve seen a theory that ties into the Angel Theory where Crowley and Aziraphale are actually two parts of the SAME angel, Raphael, and I only remembered it after I saw this quote from David and Michael’s interview:

“Well, now we’re playing one character that’s sort of split into two”

Interesting choice of words... Did one of them slip up here? I don’t think that this is the case, that it’s just me over-reading into an interview quote, but it is something I did came across in my readings of the Raphael Theory that I thought I should mention.

While trying to find a couple posts to link to for this theory, I came across this super interesting post regarding Aziraphale’s name meaning in Hebrew, and it does list ONE of the “unlikely” possibilities being that it means “Raphael is my strength”. While the author links this to be part of Crowley!Raphael theory, I kind of like it for the Duality Theory, where Crowley IS Azzie’s strength in the sense that he’s the Emotional Support Demon. Crowley IS kind and gentle and protective of Aziraphale. And Azzie, who gets his strength from Raphael Crowley, is the brains (or main single braincell carrier) of the operation.

Kind of like an overly-romantic version of soulmates, literally One Soul split into two people who are meant to find each other again and become whole.

Also, I go back to my point about their power being ASININE at less than half each. WHY IS THIS POSSIBLE? A theory: They are stronger than an Archangel’s miracle together, so it’s not absurd to speculate that it was stronger because it was finally at its full power with the SINGLE soul concocting the miracle.

Anyway, this Duality Theory is probably definitely not the case since we see them both Before the Beginning, BUT we can argue that the scene we saw was their first introduction after being split... Aziraphale just HAPPENS to zoom by, the only single angel in the area? Hmm.

I ALSO just want to say that perhaps when they body-swapped, that may have also activated dormant “together” powers within themselves? Just a little thought I had while writing this section.

Aziraphale is Raphael and Doesn’t Remember

And finally, there’s the theory that they will pull a Shyamalan and reveal that it’s Azzie that’s actually Raphael. I honestly think this is the least likely scenario, given that all the clues they’re putting in the show don’t at all point to this, other than the possible entomology of his name (I read somewhere that Gaiman initially was going to spell it Aziraphael to coincide with the naming conventions of the other Angels) could be a play on the Raphael name and it’s Aziraphale who’s actually the missing Raphael.

I don’t think it’s this at all, for the record. I just wanted to point it out since it is a theory that I’ve seen thrown around linked to the Raphael Theory.

Regardless of which theory it is, I just CANNOT get it out of my head at how often they kept bringing up elements of Crowley’s past, and I just.... mmmm. I know he’s more Important than he lets on. There’s just too many eggs dropped in this season for me to let it go without a bit of grumbling.

Or maybe I’m just looking too much into it. *shrugs* I can’t help it, reading between the lines is a hobby of mine I do so enjoy.

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MAGGIE AND NINA

UGH, I absolutely love character mirrors... I love seeing the parallels of characters and how they’re supposed to represent the protagonists in situations. 

Regarding Maggie and Nina, upon rewatching the series, I see now that Nina is primarily Aziraphale’s mirror and Maggie is Crowley’s. 

For Maggie, as an expansion on a drunken post during my liveblogging:

She’s smitten (”pathetically in love”) with someone just out of reach, hopelessly pining and watching from afar.

She’s STUPIDLY protective of and adores Mr. Fell and Nina.

She, like Crowley with Aziraphale, attempts to make Nina happy: She gives a record as a gift without thinking about the “after” (Crowley tends to do the same)

She’s stands up to the demons and for herself.

She’s “unloved and unloveable”, which Crowley believes himself to be

She’s the one who thought up the plans to get them out of trouble

For Nina:

Fussy and stuck in her ways

Doesn’t want to disappoint but can’t seem to do right by anyone

“we’re just friends, well, we hardly know each other” (which I believe is a line similar to one Aziraphale said in S1)

Afraid to start a new relationship for fear of not being good enough

Makes their love interest wait and hopes they’ll be there when the time is right (She will be)

Her relationship with Lindsay appears to me to be a parallel for Azzie’s relationship with Heaven, with them being "done” with Aziraphale for one too many indiscretions. Lindsay also accuses Nina of “cheating” which Aziraphale technically does with choosing Crowley over Heaven 

Their inevitable NOT match-made is a gentle parallel to the painful NOT match-made by our heroes. There’s a bump in the road, and when they’re both ready, they’ll eventually get together. 

Also, another thing I wanted to note here, is that Nina’s VERY heartfelt conversation with Crowley is super, SUPER important to AziraCrow’s arc, and I believe it is the catalyst to why Crowley made the decision to try to confess in Episode 6. Like, he genuinely looks like he’s re-evaluated a few things after Nina walks away. And because it was the Aziraphale mirror stating this, Crowley perhaps starts to get ideas in his head that maybe Azzie is ready to move forward, since “it certainly looks like [you’re a couple from the outside]”. Why not make it official then? Maybe Aziraphale IS just waiting for Crowley to make the move.

Food for thought.

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THE INEFFABLE BUREAUCRACY

I don’t have much to honestly say about this one, other than I am SHOCKED that it only took them 4 years to figure their shit out but our idiots still are at first base after 6000 years. Get your asses moving, idiots!

Seriously though, they’re the biggest pair of mirrors in the season, but funnily enough, I think Gabriel is Crowley’s, and Beez is Azzie’s.  

Gabriel, like Crowley to Azzie, introduces human things to Beez. 

Gabe questions Heaven and convinces Beez to question their side... essentially he “Falls” when the trial happens, abandoning Heaven. 

Gabe throws everything away to be with Beez. 

Beez is the one who learns from Gabe, just like Azzie learns from Crowley.

Beez compares themself to Aziraphale: “I imagine he took better care of you than I would have”.

Beez calling Gabe “you silly, silly angel”... Aziraphale called Crowley silly in the first half of the season.

And as an aside, just... the casual “I love you” from Gabe is like an unfiltered Crowley. Because I am certain Crowley will be the first to say it.

That’s just a super simplified version of it all, but just wanted to point it out so y’all can see where I’m coming from on why I think that.

And I REALLY BELIEVE that Aziraphale will repeat this or a similar line to Beez’s in S3: 

“I just found something that mattered more to me than choosing sides.”

I think it will be the line before the climax of S3 that Aziraphale says when he finally rejects Heaven. Because that was a POWERFUL line, and it will solidify the mirrors and parallels that are all over this season. I feel like Heaven won’t suffer the same incident happening twice, so we might even finally get to see a ridiculously protective, vengeful angel Aziraphale, to rival all of Protective Crowley moments! WHAT a payoff that would be after two seasons of him just kind of sitting idly by not standing up for himself, eh?? GOD I want it.

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CROWLEY AND AZIRAPHALE (& THEIR RELATIONSHIP ARC)

I have just a few notes to immediately take away from S2, but I do plan on expanding more upon these thoughts in my Revision of my A Thought on AziraCrow from an A-Spec Perspective meta I wrote prior to S2. 

In that meta I state very clearly how important their relationship and its portrayal is to me. I do concede that, because of this fact, I may be biased in my opinions about literally the entirety of S2′s relationship arc. I ADORE Aziraphale and I really see a lot of myself in him, and I can understand why he did what he did at the end, and why the “rejection” happened. But again, I will touch upon that with the revision meta.

Instead, I took some additional notes while I watched and rewatched S2 that I don’t think I can fit well into that meta without ham-fisting it in. I’ll try my best to break it into yummier sections so it’s not so messy.

Protective / Jealous Crowley (and his possible PTSD)

This point deserved its own little section, because it’s one of my favourite things this season. I love just how BLATANTLY PROTECTIVE and JEALOUS Crowley was, to the point of being near-murderous. I LOVE the confrontation scene with Gabriel so much, because it’s SO revealing to just how terrified Crowley is of Aziraphale being hurt and not being in Crowley’s life again. 

I imagine he constantly replays the fire in his head: what if Crowley WASN’T there to save Aziraphale that time??? To step into fire for him??? He’s seen how bad No-Azzie would be with the Bookshop Fire, and I think he STILL believes that it was Hellfire that discorporated Azzie (not the accidental summoning circle). So imagine the psyche of a demon who is hopelessly in love with an angel, having to be face to face with the fire that he believes killed Azzie the first time and THEN have Azzie’s boss basically tell Crowley how little he thinks of Aziraphale? Ooof.

And I also will standby the fanon theory that it was Crowley who left all the fire extinguishers in the bookshop, and not Aziraphale. Bless Azzie, he knows that this is a “New Fear Unlocked” in Crowley and lets him do it to ease the anxiety.

And isn’t it funny that Crowley (aside from the 2 year lockdown) seems to have spent every waking moment keeping a steady eye on Aziraphale? He’s scared, which is why I think he might have some PTSD related to everything he’s seen that Aziraphale is blissfully unaware of.

Their Arc and The Kiss

It’s so clear to me now more than before that Aziraphale IS Crowley’s whole life, to the point of obsession. I think the final arc that Crowley has to go through before he can truly be with Aziraphale proper is learning to let Aziraphale also protect him, to loosen the stranglehold that his fear of loss has on him. That Crowley doesn’t have to shoulder everything by himself and be Aziraphale’s shadow. Because that’s what he is in S2 – a lot of scenes of them together in the modern day is Crowley trailing just slightly behind Azzie, always watching and waiting for trouble and being there for him.

I think Crowley has a genuine fear of loss of control similar to Aziraphale’s. Where Azzie’s is related to “well if I can do this thing then everything will be alright”, Crowley’s is “well if I can just keep Aziraphale safe, then everything will be alright” and that’s... not a good foundation for a relationship. Their Big Breakup had to happen for them to both realize this. 

Aziraphale has NOT gone through his “lost my partner” arc like Crowley has with the bookshop fire. I go more into it in the Metatron section, but I think that Azzie’s arc will look more like Crowley being used as a leverage tool against Azzie by Heaven, and those seeds were planted in the final moments of E6. Perhaps something DOES happen when Crowley inevitably comes to his rescue, and he also “loses Crowley for good” (but we know that the totally-made-up-just-now law of parallels will bring him back, we hope).

They’re currently at the Miscommunication and Separation stage of their relationship. They’re both so scared of hurting each other that they DON’T communicate... they DON’T expose each other to “bad things” that they know and instead just focus on the good. The breakup had to happen the way it did for Aziraphale to finally Get A Clue – because I honestly don’t think he realized Crowley loved him until the kiss – and that Azzie himself wasn’t the only one with a crush on his best friend. It had to happen that way for Crowley to understand that his overprotectiveness and lying by omission only harms Aziraphale in the long run.

Listen, I think it’s possible that Azzie thinks that Crowley only did the kiss because he didn’t want Aziraphale to leave at that moment, just another “Crowley thing” that he would do. It was piss-poor timing that was at the tail end of too many emotions and anger, and it’s easy to see how Azzie could have interpreted the kiss wrong. 

They both expressed wanting to be together, but misunderstandings will ensue because neither of them are good at communicating WHAT exactly "being together” entails. Crowley thinks Azzie means “working together side by side for a shitty company”. Aziraphale thinks Crowley means “just doing what we always do and having fun doing it”, both without shifting the status quo, when in fact they both mean “I can’t see myself with anyone but you and I want you forever in any way we can be, let’s please shift the status quo”. 

Then Crowley made the situation worse (though I do think he was VERY brave in doing it because WE the audience know his intentions are true and honest) by adding a kiss into the mix when they’re both upset and angry at each other. Both are left crying (Aziraphale turns around when the Metatron arrives, and there’s NO reason he should unless it’s to wipe his eyes. And Crowley deliberately put his glasses back on, so I think it was to cover up the tears) and no one gets what they truly want.

I think we’ll get a payoff for this next season, when they’re finally BOTH on the same page and NOT misunderstanding each other. I think there will be a “did you mean it?” from Aziraphale, and then a verbalized “I love you (or a variation of those words)” from Crowley, and then the paralleled line of “our side” I mentioned in the Gabe & Beez section. I think there will be a better, more satisfying kiss next season. I really do have faith about that.

Other AziraCrow Things

I saw a meme that put it best: “Aziraphale fell first, but Crowley fell HARDER”. I think Crowley is more comfortable in his pining because he’s not constrained by the same hangups and “obligations” that Aziraphale has. Aziraphale is worried that it’s “sinful” to love a demon.

I mentioned this before in the Raphael section, but I want to reiterate the point about The Miracle, because it’s SUPER important that this was a big plot point. The fact that it was so strong for something apparently so minuscule according to them proves that they are better together, and now that Heaven is aware that their powers combined to create that miracle, they absolutely want to keep the two of them apart. They suddenly became very aware that Aziraphale and Crowley are RIDICULOUSLY stronger together, because if a tiny miracle can set off alarms in Heaven, what can two full miracles combined create? I feel like this is a BIG Chekov’s gun for S3. 

I think a large part about why Crowley is offended by Aziraphale’s acceptance of the job offer is because Crowley is upset that he’s not enough for Aziraphale, especially when he rejected Beez’s offer for Aziraphale. His voice shakes when he asked what Aziraphale did. He’s hurt.

THE TOUCHING in this season is insane. It’s so casual and it’s EVERYWHERE. Their relationship, when it’s finally actualized, is going to be heart wrenching in a good way, the “good sort of hurt”. I truly do believe AziraCrow is endgame.

It amuses me to no end that the fact that these two idiots and their one braincell think that they can make a human relationship work when they’ve been mutually pining over each other for 6,000+ years with very little progress. And good lord, they both take their advice from fiction. It’s hilarious.

Aziraphale’s unending faith in Crowley’s “goodness” also kills me. I love that Crowley actually never wants to kill anything, he’s literally just trying to get by without getting caught, and he always gently encourages Aziraphale to do the same. He cares so much about being gentle with Aziraphale. The scene on the rock where Crowley is SO SOFT with Aziraphale melted my heart. It’s so sweet.

I LOVE that it was CROWLEY who got Aziraphale into food and drinks. It explains a LOT about why Crowley likes watching Aziraphale eat. HE did that. It was his first “gift” to Aziraphale (to his knowledge at this stage, when really it was Crowley’s smile at making the universe that really did it).

Crowley’s devotion to making Aziraphale happy while Azzie is just oblivious to how Crowley feels hurts a LOT, but I want to expand more upon this in my followup reblog to my relationship meta. I see myself SO MUCH in Azzie it’s goddamned scary.

Actually, I don’t think Aziraphale is oblivious to be mean, since he makes a point that “rescuing me makes him so happy”, BUT I think Aziraphale might misinterpret Crowley’s devotion as “Crowley wanting to do good” and not “omg he’s in love with me and wants me safe always”. Which I think is why Azzie is naïve enough to believe that Crowley actually WANTS to do good and not get in trouble for it, so thinks that Crowley will jump at the chance to go back to Heaven with him. Aziraphale always saw the rescues and the saving of children and animals on the same level –  as a demon fighting against his nature – when in reality it’s a demon who just does what he wants because he cares about everything and Aziraphale happens to be at the top of that list.

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THE METATRON and AZIRAPHALE’S DECISION

This section will be short since I actually covered a large chunk of it in my Manipulation of the Metatron Meta Reply a couple days ago, so please go read that if you’re interested. The shortened, summarized version of that is this:

The Metatron is playing Aziraphale, and he’s only using Aziraphale to bring about Armageddon 2.0, using Aziraphale’s desire to be needed and useful against him. Azzie DIDN’T see what Crowley saw in Heaven when he accessed the files and I don’t think he knows about the Book of Life Threat that was the punishment for harbouring Gabriel, either. Only Crowley knew about that, but didn’t tell Azzie (again, a huge problem in their communication that needs to be worked out).

Heaven and the Metatron KNOW that Crowley is a liability and I suspect they also know how powerful they are together. They needed to drive a wedge between them, and knew Aziraphale was pure-hearted enough to believe that he could make a difference, AND that Crowley would never take up the offer that was presented given his vocal disdain for both Heaven and Hell. 

And they chose Aziraphale as opposed to the other angels because the angels actually lust for the power, and that can be unpredictable. But because Azzie has ALWAYS only wanted to do Good with no ulterior motives other than to Make Everything Better, he is easier to manipulate. Crowley is the bargaining chip that will be used against Azzie if he attempts to go rogue like Gabe, that I am pretty certain about. I think that Azzie will find out about the Book of Life because they’ll place blame on Crowley for harbouring Gabriel. Aziraphale has no idea that Gabriel really didn’t have any power. The minute Gabe turned against them, a trial and ousting happened. Aziraphale got himself into a no-win situation, and upon discovering this, he’ll believe that, because he rejected Crowley, Crowley won’t come to save him this time, so to save Crowley, Azzie will go along with the plan. Crowley’s life will literally be in Aziraphale’s hands.

I’ve no idea how Crowley will find out about it (from Muriel maybe?), but Crowley’s POV will be the primary focus next season (since this season was Azzie’s) and we’re gonna see a vengeful demon and I’m here for it. Will there be a dramatic rescue or sacrifice? I think so. Not sure who the whump candle will go to, but my bet is on Crowley this time since we got Aziraphale in S1. Who knows. I’m all for “Aziraphale is hurt, so now Crowley goes feral”, but that’s a personal preference that I can get from fanfics, LOL.

Anyway, the long-short is that this job will be the wake-up call Azzie needs to finally see what Crowley saw, without the manipulation of words to confuse him. That Azzie can’t just “make things better” because he will never be allowed to make things better. As a Supreme Archangel, he will have the clearance and ability to find out everything Crowley did. Unfortunately, it will be too late... or will it? ...

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OTHER THINGS ON MY MIND (that I didn’t know where else to put)

Aziraphale NEVER FELL because they didn’t want it to look like an Institutional Problem. I even hazard a guess that NO angel has ever Fell since the Initial and Only Fall that sent Satan, Crowley and the other demons down. But Aziraphale doesn’t know that and I suspect that it’s this constant fear of Falling that keeps him complacent to Heaven. He’ll find out how they’ve really been dealing with problems when he’s in his new position.

And I think Azzie also never fell because Crowley made a point to never ever snitch. He knows they would eat him alive in Hell, so he protects Azzie from that as well.

I love that the Bentley clearly has a favourite and it isn’t Crowley!!! The car literally tries to follow Aziraphale. It’s so cute.

And on the subject of the Bentley... Crowley can feel everything going on with his car?? So like... is that a metaphor for Aziraphale being inside Crowley or.....? hee hee heeeeeee.

I loved that David got to use his natural accent in the Edinburgh scenes. IT’S SO PRECIOUS OMG.

And and and while Crowley was high off his rocker, he clearly says “Where are you??? 😢” and Aziraphale had to reassure him that he was there. So sweet.

Aziraphale and his inability to do literally anything humans do “the normal way” (mobile phone use, be a “newspaper man”, properly drive, learn French properly) while turning around and lowkey mocking Muriel is... something else. What a hypocritical dork.

The realization that they have a WHOLE-ASSED apology dance hit me like a tonne of bricks, and we KNOW it’s coming back in S3. There needs to be an entire cabaret from Azzie this time ‘round, LOL.

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FINAL THOUGHTS

I adored season two, more than season one for sure, and I loved that it built up upon the AziraCrow relationship. It was an interlude that lets us know that they’re sort of in a rut, stuck in a status quo that both are afraid of changing, and that they both need a catalyst event to happen to truly be together.

I remain more hopeful and certain for a satisfying conclusion to their arc than I ever have before. Which is saying a lot because privately, after Sherlock S4, I kind of was ready to not put my faith in another show to canonize a ship I love ever again. 

But there’s a huge difference between this finale and Sherlock S4′s finale: GO S2 DOESN’T feel complete, and Neil wants to finish the story.  I went into more detail about it on this post here, but essentially it boils down to S4 left me feeling hollow and empty because its 4th season felt so detached from what we already saw. It felt like the closing of a book with the wrong pages in it, with no confirmation in sight of concluding the series proper with the S5 they’ve been promising for years. GOS2, on the other hand, left us feeling like everything’s WRONG but in the right way, you know what I mean? Like there is a part two to this saga to be completed. And that Neil himself seems determined to finish the story regardless of what happens.

I like to think that both Michael and David know what Gaiman plans for the endgame of their characters, given that Gaiman HAS said he does “have the final fifteen pages of Episode 6 [...] written. Given what we got in S2 with The Kiss, and Michael and David’s adoration for this story and its characters, I am hopeful that Neil entrusted them with what he wants for AziraCrow. They in turn play those characters better for it. 

So yeah, maybe I’m just putting clown shoes back on with this one, but I will remain... optimistically skeptical. Like, I REALLY want and believe that AziraCrow is endgame, that the Husbands will be actual husbands, but I also will remain skeptical that it can happen and not be upset if it doesn’t. I got a kiss (a terrible one, but a kiss nonetheless). I got a tonne of touching. I got them dancing together. I think that’s more than we ever could have hoped for, and it’s already leagues above what I am used to.

To conclude, here are some more questions, thoughts, and hopes for S3:

There are SO many “Chekov gun” moments in play in S2 currently, little things that really seem so pointless to have introduced (like the apology dance) and I am TRULY hoping that it’s true that Gaiman didn’t put things in this series unless it’s important later. I feel it will all come back around. Where S1 had open and closed plot points, S2 did NOT. 

Why was Crowley able to get into Heaven without any issue? Is THIS part of the Ineffable Plan? Why does Crowley not want anyone to know who he was before the Fall? It’s clear Crowley POSSIBLY knows more than he lets on about Everything. I think he was at one time the Supreme Archangel... Gabriel’s banishment could foreshadow this, given that Gabe is deliberately used as a Crowley mirror in this season.

I hope for a stupidly emotional, makes-me-sob-fat-tears, reunion, confession and acceptance of each other. Oh, and of course, the infamous cottage in Sussex we all hope for. I am a SUCKER for emotional beats and I CRAVE it.

Oh, and a HUGE apology dance from Aziraphale. You introduced that shit, I want to see Azzie go all out in return.

I think Crowley will be the first one to confess verbally. The Gabriel mirror kind of sealed that for me.

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FINALLY, that’s that! Thank you for reading all the way through, if you did. Again, as I alluded to in my introduction, I may expand upon a few sections of this meta on other posts in the upcoming weeks as I catch more and more things, and start integrating other people’s meta into my own theories.

Apologies for any errors in this, it took me nearly 2 days to write and a very tired couple proofreads through it to clean up hanging text.

I hope you enjoyed my foray back into meta-writing, and please, do not hesitate to send me an ask to either of my blogs if you wish for me to expand more on a topic.

Cheers, and good day 💙🖤

#good omens #good omens s2 #spoilers #go spoilers #good omens meta #my meta #long post #go all seasons

[unlikelyjapan]

s2e6 rewatch notes - part 2

OK, jumping back in from the point where Stevie says "Carm, this is a good thing."

Richie passing Tiff the Sprite (inside the bedroom that is totally just the walls of Donna's brain - the Carmela Soprano-esque mom tchotchke's mixed with predatory animal statues and black accents - maybe a bit too on the nose....) and saying "Carmy made this for you - he's a god damn pop machine, this guy. He's a weird little dude!"

Both Richie and Tiff mistake Carmy's kindness for weakness, just like everyone else from his past. It explains why Tiff would gravitate towards someone like Richie - she hates his brashness (see when she wanders into the kitchen scene after throwing up and he's just revving everyone up) but accepts it so long as it's countered with tenderness because that fits with her idea of masculinity and normalcy.

"We're trying to....um....you know, hook him up with Claire Bear -loosen him up a little bit."

Tiff - "With Claire? Why would you do that? She's so nice."

Nice people (shorthand for normal people) deserve archetypical masculine guys who can be romantic - not people who are neurodivergent and kind. Trauma doesn't factor into any of their considerations in setting people up, because they don't reckon with their own.

The subject changes to Richie and Tiff's relationship and future plans/housing - after just discussing how to "turn Carmy into a MAN man" we watch Richie quietly flounder because we know damn well The Beef won't afford the kind of life Tiff envisions for their new family. Tiff shares her dream about the all-green clothes for them/red for the baby (the baby breaking their mold/image) and they wonder aloud if they're going to be good parents and if Eva is going to like them.

It's true that they'll be better - they're present, they don't want to start from a bad place. But when we look at how they were razzing Carmy, it's indicative of the fact that they're not about to shed the baggage of their histories - they are playing roles that were established for them through their pasts, so they're doomed to failure after the glow of new family wares off and life gets in the way. It'll just look a little different, a little better.

Richie utters "I don't want to be at The Beef every day" to Cicero as Mikey is ranting about the Bill Murray story in the background. Richie was exhausted by the patterns in his life 5 whole years ago, and it wasn't just about providing for his family. It's so obvious that he fully regressed during the pandemic/things not working out in his new life the way he hoped. He also knew at that time that "I'm good with people, but I've never really had an outlet for that" and he never gets to prove what he intuits until "Forks" - by the grace of Carmy, no less.

*lights a candle for Natalie Berzatto* All of Natalie's abuse is so straight-forward and targeted. I'm glad they explored her character this season, but she's still too neatly-tied for the type of abuse she endured. Some of that is a celebration of her core female essence/strength, but I feel like some of the veneer still has to crack in future seasons - if they have her reeling from postpartum depression in S3 on top of her initial worries about Donna/motherhood, it's truly going to break my heart.

Taking a moment just to appreciate John Mulaney belittling the Faks, as it's the only scene where I found their presence enjoyable.

Carm grabbing the saltines and asking Mikey about them working together - Mikey saying The Beef is a nightmare is self-explanatory, but the fact that Carmy follows it up with "I don't want you talking to Claire if you don't give a fuck" and Mikey assuring him that he does, convinces Carmy that Mikey loves him through his meddling with Claire. Out of the two things Carmy has yearned for (at this stage in his life) since high school, Mikey only wants him to have one of those things - the one Mikey and co. decide will be good for him.

Mikey saying "I give, like, the biggest fuck" and Carmen looking pacified/accepting of that statement, means that his father brother is telling him that Claire is the most important thing for him to pursue in his life, and he's just asserting his love for his brother by trying to set him up with her. So much damn pressure....

Discussing The Bear drawing outside the pantry

"It's beautiful....",

"Yeah....we could do this"

"Yeah.....let it rip."

I'm pretty sure this is the last one-on-one conversation Mikey and Carmy ever had, matching the suicide note - this scene is a living goodbye, and John Berenthal plays it like he knows it. Expert-level shit, expert-level acting all around.

All hail Sarah Paulson's hot mess of a character (you can take the dysfunctional girl out of the midwest, but you can't take the midwest out of the dysfunctional girl), even if she was just around to narratively offer Carmy a flashing exit sign (knowing that he's talented and cognitively different from the rest of the lot) and dole out the story about how bears grieve.

I think one thing that Richie, the Fak's and other "related by friendship" hangers-on have in common is that they recognize that Mikey and Carmy's familial suffering has made them dynamic in ways that their own suffering has not. Both have their own unique gravitas that separates them from all the other men in their crummy suburban life - these other men are trying to absorb power by proxy.

"Can you just go and get Dad's gun out of my drawer and I think I'm just going to blow my fucking brains out and then you guys can make dinner because I don't think anyone would fucking miss me" - many thanks to @loudlightobservation for pointing out in the part one comments that Donna probably has untreated Borderline and Narcissistic PD. I initially thought this scene was over-the-top, but I burned an hour reading about how severe the reactions to perceived abandonment can be in these cases.

As per my comments about Natalie and her veneer, at least she can do things like ask Stevie "can you hug me?" and select men like Pete who will always be ready to do so. Unlike the boys, she learned how to identify needs and self-soothe early, probably because she was the most neglected of the three.

Didn't know where to put this: Cicero's relationship/flirtation with Donna when she's in the kitchen "do you know how fucking hot you are when you're slurring your words?", Lee's hatred of Cicero, and Lee trying to make inroads with Donna (again) through a work collaboration - the building in Wilmette likely being the property that Cicero mentioned having to offload. Carol (revealed to be Cicero's wife by name in s1e4) yelling at Lee as he enters for his first scene of the show. Again, I didn't know where to put these interconnected notes, but WHAT. THE. FUCK. HAPPENED. HERE.

Also, is Lee a former partner in The Beef (after he presumably replaced the Berzatto patriarch for a stay) and that's part of the resentment towards Mikey - along with sharing Donna for a time? Or is it something else? I've had a hard time piecing together these narratives beyond the obvious psychosexual connection to Donna.

Ugh, the all-hands crucifixion of St. Pete - I morphed from "who is this cuck?" in season 1 to wanting to storm onto the set and carry him out myself like a baby - not unlike how I felt the first time I saw Carmy slapping the donut out of Marcus' hands. Cringe but ultimately minor transgressions in a charged environment wind up being the greater sin than full-on emotional abuse with the Berzattos.

I'm finding there's less to dissect in the second half of the episode - everything is more overt. Cicero is generous. (re: shielding Richie). Natalie and Carmy are emotionally spent from their Donna-duty.

The whole final Donna/Carmy kitchen scene brings up a lot of existential questions I ask myself as a cook about food being a mechanism of control. I love to gather and cook for people - but I also know I'm an anxious person who needs to control the narrative, and sometimes I want people to be somewhat beholden to me through the care I extend to them through food and entertaining. In doing this, I sometimes feel pushy, and know there is always a level of avoidance in hosting/caring for people.

But with Donna, and through that conduit, Carmy - food IS control. Food IS enmeshment. Food IS the forcing function for unruly togetherness (through the restaurant and grand celebrations in the Italian tradition).

I hope that Carmy, through his collaboration with Syd, carves out a healthier narrative of what caring for people through cooking and service means. I don't think he hates cooking, as others have postulated - I think he hates the enmeshment, I think he hates himself for feeling he needs to control people through food. I think he hates feeling forced to do it, because he can't function that highly outside of it. The sooner he can extricate himself from his past, the sooner I think he'll love creating food and sharing it again.

The Lee and Mikey jousting bit is essential to the dinner unravelling, but while it's immaculately acted, it's not really interesting to me since it's such an overt conflict. Poking the bear, fighting to be the patriarchal figure of the house, blah blah blah. It makes for great visuals, but it doesn't reveal any new depth beyond "men=fucked."

And the "cousin, you're scaring the normals" comment - I see no evidence that anyone who would willingly wander into this abattoir fits that description. The best part of the scene is when Lee says "throw another fork at me and you're going to get fucking rocked" and then there's just the pregnant pause, immaculately shot, with the old clock ticking in the background.

Lee's "You're nothing. You're nothing. You're nothing" harkens back to "You're bad at this. You are bullshit. You should be dead" - all of the Berzatto men are capable of being ground to a pulp by other men they perceive to be authorities in some form or another, and I think we're only just beginning to see in this season how women factor into the equation (those in charge and those who are seemingly powerless) after a lifetime ruled by Donna.

Donna, who enters the scene, and everything defers to the power she holds over everyone with her tempestuous illness.

Ha, I missed the line in Stevie's grace where he says "We're healthy, I think? No ones si....no ones physically very sick."

"Natalie Rose Berzatto...." God. If I had turned off subtitles, JLC's delivery in this scene would make anyone hear "Do you know how much I fucking hate you" - because that's what she meant. And God bless Michelle.

It seems like, the moment Carmy looks at the car and the cannoli, it's finally cemented in his mind that Mikey and Donna are intrinsically the same person (but the selective trauma memories he maintains after Mikey's death wipe out the bad, hence his surprise about him using etc). Ending with Natalie's A+ horror film face and the lyrics "Could you ever know how much I care?" was absolutely the right editorial tone to end the episode.

I'm going to be honest....I thought I'd find a lot more in this hour than I actually did.

I'm really looking forward to Bolognese onwards, mostly because I really miss Syd now - the show without her energy (mostly because Natalie still has inadequate development, through no fault of her own) is just male trauma from a male perspective....

#the bear fx #the bear season 2 #the bear spoilers #the bear #carmy x sydney #carmen berzatto #syd x carmy #sydney adamu #richie jerimovich #claire the bear #mikey berzatto #donna berzatto #the bear s2 #carmy berzatto

[chirpsythismorning]

Crack Theory: Will Byers is Twelve (012) - Part 3

I seriously meant it when I said things are about to get even more interesting. You're not ready.

I didn't notice this until literally today (so if it's a well known concept already, my apologizes!).

For those like me who didn't know about this, essentially we got two different versions of the opening to the Massacre at Hawkins Lab. The 4x01 version, and the 4x07 version.

They're almost identical, both one long take, but still with slight differences, especially in how they end. It's now clear to me that these are two entirely different takes. And so what purpose does that serve exactly?

I'm guessing they did this in large part to convey how El now has a more clear memory of that day, compared to at the start of the season.

But upon rewatching the 4x07 version, and specifically in the context of this Twelve theory, I'm shook.

4x07: The Massacre at Hawkins Lab (cont.)

Does this series of images... remind you of anything?

ANYWAYS

THERE HE IS ON THE LEFT!

Oh nvm he's gone.

WAIT THERE HE IS AGAIN!

It's confirmed!?!! Twelve (Will) sat next to Eleven (El)!?!?! It's just that the story wasn't willing to reveal this in the beginning....

And there he is again, just on the edge of the frame, to the right, coloring away...

Then, Brenner takes Ten out of the Rainbow room, and suddenly this moment that was framed as important in the s4 opener, is now being looked at from a more important perspective: El's.

El then follows through with the plan, in hopes it will bring back her memory...

The last time we see Twelve, he's still sitting at the desk drawing.

I will say before getting into what's about to happen, that this sequence is pretty haphazard at times. Like s3 ending w/the goodbye hugs level haphazard. What I'm saying is, there's visible shots during this sequence, where you can tell the blocking of the characters doesn't match up exactly with where they were in the previous shot/where they were probably intended to be for that shot.

However, I think it's helpful to think about how these are very young actors in this scene, and a scene that is extremely sensitive/serious at that. I wouldn't want children (or even adults) to have to work ungodly amounts of hours, redoing a take over and over because it wasn't perfect, nor would I expect them to do reshoots just because one or two shots doesn't match perfectly with what they intended continuity-wise. That just happens occasionally in film, and the only people with perfect continuity, I imagine are a pain in the ass to work with...

However, I think there is one specific detail that makes me slightly open to humoring this theory.

Because I will admit, I myself am skeptical for an abundance of reasons. There is still a lot that would need to be addressed in s5 if Will was indeed Twelve this whole time. Like a lot of explaining. Though, now looking back at past seasons, there is an interesting new angle to think about it with all of this in mind (that's a different post for a different day).

Still, one of the main arguments, that debunks this whole theory, is that presumably, all of the kids died that day, except for El. Right?

And so how the hell would Twelve (Will) have survived?

Well, that one specific detail I was just referring to, is the framing of Twelve in s4, and specifically in relation to El.

As you've seen so far, Twelve is either very much in focus more than the others, practically front and center, or he's lingering in the background of shots that are really odd for him to be in, or he is left out of the sequences almost entirely, while everyone else is shown. It is so. weird.!

And the ending of the massacre follows that same formula.

As El runs into the Rainbow room, the first place she looks is in the direction where she was just sitting before she left, which we now know happens to be where Twelve was as well (last time we saw him).

However, we do not get to see what El saw in this exact moment. Instead, the camera continues to focus on El as her eyes scan the room from left to right.

Once she looks down to her right, we finally get to see what she sees (I'm not going to post these shots for obvious reasons).

And so basically....

I think Twelve is under the mirror/window, roughly the same area where Twelve was when she left the Rainbow room...

The first time we get closer to seeing someone possibly under the mirror/window, they don't allow us to. It's as if they are panning over it, high enough so that test subject is out of view.

But then, we see a pair of feet on the floor to the left, below the mirror/window, along with a very prominent bloody hand print.

Take note of that handprint and those feet because I think it could be important...

SHIT there it is again!

And again, this time slightly between Henry and El, but more so closer to Henry.

God. I feel like any moment know, dramatic irony is gonna kick in and we're somehow gonna get something that makes us think of Will...

IM SO SORRY

Part 4 coming soon!

Part 1, 2, 3, 4

#stranger things #will byers #byler #stranger things 5 #twelvegate #twelve #rainbowshipgate #birthdaygate #stranger things theory #stranger things meta #st5 headcanon #st5 theory

[pynkhues]

This may be way off base but do you think there’s something to Kendall being the one handling Logan’s medication in S2 (and as such, looped into his health and medical care) and Roman and Shiv not being aware that Logan had a UTI in S3? I’m doing a rewatch and hadn’t connected these points before when the show was airing but I can’t help but link them now. Like, I can’t help but wonder if this gets at what Logan does or doesn’t share, or is comfortable sharing, with each child but I could also just be seeing things. Any thoughts?

I don't think you're way off base at all, anon, I think Logan's really specific about the vulnerabilities that he shares with his children, and his health is absolutely one of them.

This is a slight tangent, because I don't think the intent behind them is the same, but I do always find it interesting that Connor seems to be the only one Logan actually talked to about his death. He spends so much time avoiding that topic with the Golden Trio, but Connor's the only one who knew about the family plot / tomb and the backstory to it, he's the one to handle all the funeral arrangements, he's the one who - by speaking to their father about cryogenics - was talking about the realities and un-realities of death.

That's not something Logan ever does with Kendall, Roman or Shiv, and it's interesting to think about Logan syphoning off his feelings of vulnerability to disperse among his children. I do think a part of its genuine - I think Logan's terrified of feeling ganged up on by them, and I think he really does value that feeling of individual intimacy that comes with sharing in those moments - but I also think he knows it deepens divides and insecurities between them and keeps all of them isolated in their knowledge and lack there of.

Things can, and often do, mean more than one thing after all, and I think the show always relished in that.

But yes, more to the point of your question, I think Kendall managing Logan's health in s2 meant a lot of things, but I also think it most pointedly echoes Logan's words in the s1 finale.

I think there's a lot to be said about the way health brokers this degree of intimacy regardless, but nursing and doctoring are highly gendered, and Logan's emasculation of Kendall is a real throughline of the series. Care-based roles like nursing are inherently pink-collar, they're feminine, and in saying that in this scene, Logan's deliberately emasculating Kendall, but also the very idea of 'doing good'.

Kendall taking over Logan's meds in s2 I do think is meant to indicate a degree of thematic castration, but I also think it's designed to show Kendall's attempts to atone for Doddy's death. He's being a fucking nurse, he's doing good things. Even if they are just for his dad.

I think that there's also an argument to be made that Kendall perhaps also is seen by both Logan and the siblings to 'get' the health stuff better. I think a lot of that probably comes from him being the eldest of the golden trio, but also from being in rehab and his own struggles, and from Iverson (it's been interesting reading the scripts because I think they do indicate that a] Kendall does think about Sophie and Iverson more than what makes it to screen [even though this still isn't as much as he should and he is still without doubt a terrible father, haha] and b] he's a little more across Iverson's needs than we see / it's more explicit I think in the scripts that Iverson is intended to be on the autism spectrum). He's more experienced, if nothing else, y'know? And I think in the Roy network, that counts when no one else wants to deal with something.

As for this and the UTI incident being linked - - yeah, I think they are. I think there's a space that Kendall and Logan occupy together that's just theirs, and that we as an audience are supposed to extrapolate that Kendall could've (and would've) managed that situation better or, more realistically, never would've let it get to that point in the first place.

How much that's actually true, who knows, but I do think there's a deeper read of their relationship which is its own beast really. I actually have another ask in my inbox about Kendall and Logan's particular dynamic which I've been percolating on, so I hope you don't mind me leaving this here! I'll answer the other (and link back to this ;-) ) in the morning.

#it's been soooo interesting reading the s2 scripts #so much was cut! #the dynamics of it all #funnily enough i do think kendall is forever the one logan trusts the most #which isn't about competence but more that he's the most groomed #which is kind of my point in the ask i'll answer tomorrow #welcome to my ama #kendall roy #logan roy #kendall + logan #hbo succession #succession meta

[jjxkiaraxpopexcleoxjohnbxsarah]

Lost in My Past

So i was rewatching OBX S3 and i went to ep 7 and i found something to write a fic about basically y'know the scene where Singh's men attack Professor Neville's house boat and JJ and John B are there. Well i decided to write about it

ENJOY

"Hey" John B sighs in annoyance as he turns to JJ. He's trying to convince Professor Neville into giving him any information to find his dad. And JJ isn't helping.

"WHAT?!WHAT IS GOI-"

JJ covers John B's mouth as he tells him to shut up.

It's then John B hears it.

A boat engine.

"Hey Neville how much traffic do you get on this river?" JJ asks.

"Nothi-"

"Neville! Neville Persaud!"

Suddenly bullets sliced through the boats window, shattering it into a shower of glass fragments

John B pushes JJ down as more bullets were fired.

JJ curls up on the floor and holds his knees. His breath grows shallow as blood pounded in his ears.

YOU STUPID WORTHLESS IDIOT

Not real not real not real-

JJ gasps for air as he tugs on his hair-

His dad's angry shouts merge with the gunshots.

YOU'RE JUST LIKE YOUR STUPID MOM

Why can't he breathe, he needs to breathe.

John B slowly rises from his position on the floor and turns to see JJ.

The blonde boy is practically hyperventilating on the ground, his shaking hands tugging at his hair whilst tears stream down his face.

Signs of a panic attack.

"JJ not now, c'mon" John B crouches over the Maybank boy and places his hands gently over JJ's. "You're okay, i swear everything's fine."

"JB"

John B smiles weakly, "Right here buddy, you're safe i promise"

"C-can't breathe" JJ sobs.

"You can I promise you can "

John B's heart breaks at the sight of his best friend on the floor crying and hurting because of an idiotic excuse of a dad. JJ never deserved any of this. John B closes his eyes as a tear rolls down his face. Even though he has witnessed JJ's attacks many times before it still hurts to see him like this.

JJ can't even close his eyes or else the frantic images of Luke's menacing face will flash in his mind.

I HATE YOU SO MUCH

JJ whimpers as he tries to control his breathing.

"JJ, breathe. Focus on my voice," John B urges, his eyes filled with concern. "You're safe here with me. C'mon Bubba"

John B holds JJ's hand as the panic starts to subside.

The bullets still echoed in the distance but Luke's voice isn't there anymore.

JJ sits up and collapses onto John B's chest. JB wraps his arm around him.

"It's over you're okay"

JJ takes in the familiar scent of his best friend- cedarwood and bergamot.

"Sorry, I'm so sor-"

"Stop apologising" John B whispers into his ear. He holds JJ closer, resting his chin on the blonde locks." It'll be fine"

JJ faintly realizes that the boat is moving.

Neville returns, his face ashen and tired.

"I managed to get rid of them at the last minute, that was a close call"

JJ just hides his face in John B's shoulder. He feels guilty- John B must be so stressed right now, what with his Dad all the way in South America with Singh and JJ isn't helping by having a panic attack and-

"JJ?"

"What?" JJ meant for it to sound strong but it comes out as a shaky whisper.

"You're okay"

JJ just nods.

He's so grateful for having John B by his side. Yeah he has a rubbish dad and a stupid chaotic life but John B has always been there for him, holding him, making sure he doesn't break and if he has John B will pick up the pieces and fix him.

John B is JJ's anchor.

JJ's anchor in a messy, crazy, wild ocean.

John B is JJ's home.

YOU CAN ALSO READ THIS AND MY OTHER STORIES ON A03

#jj maybank #john b routledge #obx #outer banks #please notice me #jj x john b #obx fanfiction #mine

[destinationtoast]

On writing messiness, genre expectations, and satisfying endings

(AKA why did I mostly like the Ted Lasso finale?)

I found the Ted Lasso finale more satisfying than many people seem to have – which is not to say I found it perfect; it was an imperfect end to a messy season – but it made me feel a lot of big & enjoyable emotions while watching it, and it didn’t contain anything that left me feeling too frustrated afterward.  But I know a lot of people had a much more negative experience (and I feel empathy and compassion for that, as someone who has been deeply disappointed by past shows I was hugely invested in *cough* Sherlock and Game of Thrones *cough*).  This meta is me noodling about why I found the finale mostly satisfying, while not critiquing anyone else’s experience or expectations.  

It's been funny watching the Succession finale and the Ted Lasso finale in such close proximity, for a number of reasons (I loved both shows, in such different ways).  Maybe I'm just not tuned in enough to the Succession fandom to see it, but I didn’t see people saying things like, "I can't believe Succession set up X to stay in an abusive dynamic with Y," or “Z is in such a mentally unstable place and didn’t get help! So unhealthy.”   OTOH, I see a lot of people feeling unhappy that their favorite Ted Lasso characters weren’t given ideal/healthy/happy endings, which seems to be where a lot of the finale dissatisfaction arises.

A lot of this obviously comes down to tone expectations – people were presumably not expecting Succession to be kind to the characters in the end, because it's never been about kindness or healthy relationships, whereas Ted Lasso has often been.  But this got me thinking about how I nonetheless seem to have had different expectations for the Ted Lasso finale than some (many?) fans did.  Looking at some of the criticisms I’ve seen from people who were disappointed by the finale, I think I had different writing expectations from some fans, different genre expectations, and perhaps a different idea of what qualifies as a satisfying ending.  

Writing expectations. I didn’t think the finale could possibly fix most of what was wrong with S3, which was a mess.  S3 was often lovely, and I will enjoy rewatching it, but it was still a mess structurally – featuring weird pacing, odd choices of where to focus, and some unsatisfying storylines & character moments.  And because writers are only human – and also working with a lot of behind-the-scenes constraints & S4 negotiations & late rewrites – I didn’t think the finale would be able to do any last-minute miracle saves.   I didn’t expect any grand plan to become clear, or all/most of the loose threads to get tied up.  But I went in open to the idea that I would enjoy the finale for where it took the characters, given the messy journeys they’d already been on by the end of episode 3x11.  (This was tempered by my having hoped in vain for the writers to miraculously make sense of everything/tie together all the messy threads neatly in a finale before, and having never seen that happen!)

Genre expectations.   I think many fans watching Ted Lasso were expecting that the show was going to give an unambiguously happy ending to all the main characters for genre reasons.  Some saw it as a rom-com – a story leading to romance(s) and some form of happy ending for all the main cast – because the show featured a number of rom-com elements and references, as well as some romantic storylines.  And I think some (an overlapping set) saw it as a particular kind of hurt/comfort narrative – a story about triumphant personal growth, about overcoming adversity & trauma, and receiving only comfort & joy by the end of the story.  I can see the ending being disappointing with either of those genre expectations.  But the show I thought I was watching was about imperfect people trying to grow, to improve, to build better relationships, and to find ways to thrive – but doing so imperfectly.  I expected progress for most characters, but also backsliding – and for some characters to improve in some dimensions but not in others.  I thought the show was more about hope and effort than about success.  (And the show also wasn't about romance to me, even though I enjoyed Roy/Keeley in the show and want to read/write a ton of shippy fic about my OT3 and several other ships.)

Satisfying endings.  Given my genre expectations, what I wanted was not for the characters to all end up perfectly happy, nor for all the relationships to end up healthy or resolved.  I wanted characters to behave in ways where I could understand their motivations, and that were consistent with their behaviors through 3x11.  To me, the finale succeeded better at this than a number of episodes earlier in S3, where I was left scratching my head about why characters had made various choices.  And I wanted many of the characters that Ted had influenced to show some kind of growth/hope for the future, however imperfectly, because that fit my expectations for the kind of narrative it was (as described above – not complete happy endings, but messy and imperfect growth).  For me, the finale succeeded there, too.  To address a few endings that caused specific sore spots for other fans:

Beard/Jane: The one thing that seemed impossible to believe about Beard’s wedding was that Ted wasn’t there.  (That’s the main thing that makes me open to the “it was just a dream of Ted’s” theory – I think that theory has other difficulties, but it’s fun to consider, and I’m open to it.)  I know some people were upset that Beard & Jane ended up together because it’s a toxic relationship.  But while I don’t disagree, that doesn’t seem like a dealbreaker to me unless the show is a rom-com.  Beard has been on & off with Jane the whole show, and I didn’t see any signs that he was about to break that pattern.  It made sense to me that he would feel very conflicted about whether to follow Ted or stay with her, but also seemed believable to me that he would ultimately choose to stay.  I was very sad that he was leaving Ted, but it actually felt like personal growth to me, for him to feel like he could thrive without Ted.  (Lots of room still for personal growth in other dimensions.)  

Roy, Jamie, and Keeley: Roy and Jamie fighting about who should be allowed to try to date Keeley was stupid of them, but not unrealistically stupid, given that they're trying to figure out how to preserve their new relationship while also both loving her.  That’s backsliding, but they’ve also both grown a lot.  (Well, Jamie clearly has; Roy allegedly has, and I can see signs of that in a couple of episodes especially, but S3 has not served him that well overall imo, and I will require fic to fill in some blanks.)  I’m glad Keeley didn’t choose one of them – that shows growth on her part, I think.   I very much headcanon the three of them getting together eventually, but I feel like her choosing to focus on herself & KJPR for now (especially while they’re both being idiots) is a satisfying outcome.  

Jamie and his dad: As with Beard/Jane, a lot of the critiques I saw of the (dream?) montage reunion between Jamie and his dad were of the form “But that relationship has been toxic.” And I can understand wanting Jamie to be fully done dealing with the source of so much past trauma.  But I can easily imagine Jamie trying to cautiously have some limited form of relationship with his dad again.  I am not saying someone in Jamie’s position should do that, nor that it’s likely to lead to a healthy/easy dynamic.  But it does not seem inconsistent with where Jamie is as of the finale.  I think he’s grown a lot, and has more agency in his life now, but he clearly showed he was having trouble just ignoring his dad.  And many people revisit relationships that have caused them pain and have lacked resolution, for better or worse.  I hope and expect that with a strong set of friends/found family supporting him, Jamie will ultimately be okay.

Nate:  Okay, here I admit my headcanons are doing some heavy lifting, and I would have been happy if they’d clarified more of this onscreen.  But I cannot imagine that Nate was not offered a coach role when he returned – and I can easily imagine him refusing that offer and asking to be a kit man again for the short term, so that’s my headcanon.  He seemed to really be enjoying working at Taste of Athens as a waiter – for multiple reasons, not just because Jade was there – and this seems consistent with that.  I think part of what he learned from this season was that prioritizing fame & recognition doesn’t lead him to happiness, and that he has an unhealthy need to be admired/praised by the Twitterati, the press, etc.  I can easily believe that he’d want to step back from the limelight and prioritize working with a team that cares about him while figuring out what’s next.  (Especially as he has been pretty bimodal; overly humble and shy at first, and then overly recognition-seeking and angry about perceived slights – I can easily buy him backsliding into too-humble mode for a while).  I fully expect he’ll keep building more confidence again in a healthier way, and that he'll coach Richmond again shortly (even if the montage was just a Ted dream).  And if Roy was truly made head coach, I headcanon that it happened after a discussion about who should fill that role, and Nate turning it down.  I also would have liked a fuller resolution between him and Ted, but I bought the brief scene between them as consistent with where they both were emotionally at that point (I would not be shocked if Nate mailed Ted the full 60 pages later, though).

Rebecca:  Love that she’s truly over Rupert and figuring out whether she still wants Richmond in light of that – and I love the decision she arrives at.  Her running into the Dutch guy was the most rom-commy piece of the finale for me, but I didn’t mind it.  I’d been trying to figure out how on earth they could wrap up the whole messy psychic storyline (which I hated), and I had vaguely wondered whether – if she was indeed fated to be a mother – she might end up co-parenting with Bex, or whether she might end up with the Dutch guy.  I also started to think during the finale that she might go back to Kansas with Ted, but if she had done so, I wanted that to be the first step on a journey of world travel and self-exploration – not her getting together with Ted and co-parenting Henry. (I wasn’t ever opposed to T/R, but I personally felt it would have felt unearned if that relationship had only started up in the finale.  I personally really enjoyed the double trolling at the beginning of the episode, though, with Ted and then the bethonged Beard in Rebecca’s kitchen – amazing! XD )  Anyway, I’m fine with her ending up surrounded by her Richmond family and dating the Dutch guy.

Ted: I expected Ted to return to Kansas at the end, and I think that was the best choice, though a hard one. I think Ted adores Richmond and will be back visiting all the dang time, and I hope he may eventually move back.  But the “choice” Rebecca offered him to move Henry to Richmond now was an unrealistic one – Ted would have to negotiate that change with Michelle, and it’s a HUGE ask her (and possibly Dr. Jacob) to uproot like that and leave her family/friends/job behind.  So the right thing for Henry right now is for Ted to go back and be with him.   And I think that choice is very consistent with what we’ve seen of Ted’s struggles with anxiety last season and his more explicitly worrying about where he should be this season.  I think it’s a bittersweet choice for him, and he’s going to miss Richmond a lot, but I’m not worried about him being all alone.  With the way Ted makes friends, I am sure he already has a bunch of good ones back in Kansas, and that he’ll keep making more.  I very much look forward to a lot of reunion fic with everyone he’s left behind, though.  And I want AFC Richmond to come visit him, as well as the other way around!

I’ve read/been influenced by some good meta about some of the above points, and I’ll reblog some of it later.  But that’s the gist of where I’m at – the characters we love are growing and changing in some very good ways, but they are definitely still imperfect, and still themselves. And most things don't wrap up tidily with a full resolution, but that's okay.  For me, that all holds true whether or not the montage was Ted’s dream, and I am happy for that to be ambiguous (except for the part where Ted would totally be at Beard’s wedding).  But I’m very interested in hearing about the whole gamut of experiences people are having (and to hear alternate theories about genre expectations, etc)!  I can’t wait to read more meta, as well as so much fic, fix-it or otherwise. I continue to be delighted to be a part of the fandom for this show. <3

#ted lasso #ted lasso spoilers #ted lasso finale #meta #all the thinkiness #op #I didn't address trent or some other dissatisfactions because I currently have fewer thoughts #but interested to read others' meta #I've actually been offline a bunch since the finale #and I have so much catching up to do! #:) #50

[ineffablecolors]

hey just wondering why you think Roy reuniting w Keeley post s3 would’ve been bad for him? I sort of agree but also don’t want to bash keeley in anyway so I haven’t talked about it

Heya! Thanks for the ask and sorry you feel like you can't discuss something though I do understand why. I'll preface this by repeating something I've said before - canon did such a horrible job of holding Keeley accountable for anything and wrote her as if she could do no wrong and fandom seems to have picked that up and totally ran with it.

I do love that when reading RoyJamie fanfic, I never see Keeley bashing, as you call it, because vilifying female chatacters is such common practice in fandoms. But Ted Lasso fandom seems to swing to the other extreme where I've never even read a fic where Keeley apologises for something? And you can't even quite blame the fans, they just picked what canon put down - Keeley can do no wrong.

So, first of all, I think simply judging Keeley's actions is not bashing at all, it's just treating her the way every character BUT her is treated in both fandom and show. I think Keeley, like almost every other character, has made plenty of bad decisions and mistakes and, personally, how I react to them is a mix of how well I can relate to her and something else. Jack, for example, was a very professionally questionable decision but I completely sympathise with Keeley for it because 1) she faced consequences for her mistake even if it's never acknowledged that she made one and 2) I can relate to it! Hiring Shandy on the other hand was such a monumentally stupid decision that I could never relate to, so it just makes me annoyed with Keeley and the fact that the show treated it as her just being too sweet and wanting to give another horribly unqualified woman a chance rather than as a point towards her lack of professional skills.

Anyway!! The something else is important for my answer. As much as I love discussing my favourite shows and try to be objective, I very rarely am. Once I pick a favourite character, my opinion of almost every other character is informed by how they treat my favouriteTM. Is that fair? No. Do I do it without fail? Yes. Do I feel bad for it? Umm, no, that's my baby, nobody is allowed to be mean to them xD

And this is how we get to the Roy Kent of it all (finally! christ, this is gonna be long, sorry but also thanks!). Roy's my favourite, my baby, my grumpy, old, emotionally constipated and physically aching romantic. Roy can and has done wrong, I'd never claim otherwise. But I'd still claim he's the best chatacter and one of the best people on the show. And he's always gonna put himself last on his list of priorities.

Which is why I fully admit that I judge Keeley extra harshly when it comes to her and Roy. For brief context - I totally shipped Roy and Keeley and think they were good for each other, for the most part, in s1, I was ecstatic they were together in s2 and still shipped them like hell on my first watch (which was binged with s1!) and less and less on every consequent rewatch, part of me still wanted them to be together and then to get back together in s3 until I actually watched it all and completely changed my mind.

Shall I finally answer your question? I don't think Roy should reunite with Keeley because he gives too much of himself and she gives too little. I don't believe they are well balanced and I dont believe he'd feel loved with her again.

That WAS brief! But if you'd like more detail...

I think as sweet and good-hearted as she's portraited, Keeley is inherently a selfish person. Now, we circle back to bashing and judging. I'm doing neither. I'm myself a selfish person in many ways, that's not the worst thing to be in some regards. But I think Keeley is especially selfish in her romantic relationships and that simply does not suit someone like Roy. When paired with a selfish partner, Roy would just give and give and blame himself for not getting as much back.

I'm not saying there haven't been some great moments between Roy and Keeley, full of affection and care from Keeley, such as the scene at the end of s1. That's probably my favourite moment of theirs. But there have been some pretty shit ones too that for me outweigh the good and, more importantly, came once they settle into the relationship.

As early as their first kiss, Keeley got so annoyed and impatient, she immediately slept with Jamie. I know the show took it as an opportunity to have a kinda feminist moment but can you picture that turned around? Roy and Keeley kiss after tons of flirting and build up, and the day after Roy sleeps with a girl Keeley has a proper (however childish) feud with just cuz she told him she was busy that night. That would've never been fine. Again, I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it's the response of a person who only cares about what they want and doesn't plan for the future.

Then, we have the infamous "Roy is a fridge magnet" episode which I still can't wrap my mind around so gimme a sec here. Your boyfriend is too into you, is perfect (by Keeley's own words) but not giving you the space you haven't asked for. So, instead of talking to him - don't even get me started on people writing Keeley as a character who's good as communicating - girl, where?? - you talk about it to his boss, a bunch of his coworkers and your ex who has an antagonistic relationship with him, and eventually as you're spending time together and he's trying to share one of his interests with you, you start screaming bloody murder at him about how clingy he is. Do I have that all correct? All of this would have been forgivable ofc, miscommunication happens, people aren't perfect, etc, etc, expect... forgiveness was asked by the wrong person. What on earth did Roy have to apologise for? This is the #1 example for me of that show trying so hard to make Keeley a perfect sunshine girl boss that they made 0 narrative or even logical sense. Honestly I hate that whole episode with a fiery passion.

Then we have the funeral shenanigans, which I won't even get into because I think Roy was 100% hilarious in that and Keeley was 100% overreacting (and yes, that's a heavy term to use towards a woman but here's the thing... she was). I guess this would be a good place to talk about their ILYs as well. Roy's ILYs always come with an acknowledgement of Keeley's feelings and his own fault for hurting them in anyway. Keeley's first ILY though has absolutely nothing to do with Roy. She's happy about her own success and he's celebrating her. That's it. That's the first time we see her say I love you. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Roy's aren't better but I think that just proves why he couldn't be happy with Keeley. Every time he's said ILY, it's been tinged with sadness and guilt and self-incrimination. Why would I want him to be with someone who constantly inspires those feelings in him?

This is now definitely too long so I'll try to wrap up with s3 very quickly and mainly the fact that the episode Keeley is drinking alone in the pub is one of the only ones where Keeley faces consequence for her actions (in this case, sleeping with her boss - again, not something I blame or begrudge her for but also something she should've probably considered can get her funding pulled when it ends, see: never thinking about the future (and why I don't see Keeley being successful without people like Barbara or Rebecca but thats a different topic)). Keeley responds to being made to face the music by using Roy to make herself feel better. I'm sorry but there's no other interpretation of their hook up for me. He's just read her a very heartfelt apology, ending with another guilt ridden ILY and then he was leaving. Except she chased him down, not to say it back ofc, but to use him for sex.

Thanks, I hate it.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to the fact that I think Roy was right to break up with Keeley. Not because she's not a great catch and not because there was anything wrong with her being successful or needing time for herself but because they're not right for each other. Roy is too selfless and ready to blame himself for everything and Keeley is too focused on herself and ready to take advantage of that.

Roy is the kind of romantic that would tell his cabbie to date his wife and compose a playlist for the girlfriend who treated him horribly yesterday. He's the kind of guy that's had to bottle up all his emotions forever and never talks about himself with people and has had his fucking watch stolen by his fucking hook ups. He deserves someone *cough*Jamie*cough* who is absolutely obsessed with him! Who will appreciate the things he does for them and the time he spends with them rather than take them for granted at best and be annoyed at worst. Who will make him feel like he's been struck by lightning! He deserve someone who cares about his feeling and frankly, in season 3 at least, I don't think that's Keeley or should be again.

#roy kent #ted lasso #anti-roykeeley #and i guess #anti keeley jones #just to be safe though it isnt really #gods and this is not even half of my issues with them

[extasiswings]

Waittt what’s the reasoning behind buck quitting being a firefighter?

So obviously this is just me speculating, but the Buck/Abby parallels have been very loud in my mind since S3. And I just went back and rewatched 3x18, including their final conversation on the bench, which made some wheels start turning.

Because Abby's explanation for leaving was that she had become someone whose life wasn't her own, she made it about everyone else. As a first responder, about the people on calls, at home, about her mom. She had made her life all about taking care of other people and in order to find herself (including being able to find the love of her life), she had to leave. Her job, Buck, the city. And what she said that stuck with me was that the reason she didn't come back, why she was afraid to come back, was because she thought that if she did she would fall right back into the same habits and lose herself again.

We've never gotten (in my view) an explanation for Buck wanting to be a firefighter that isn't tied up in mountains of self-worth issues and trauma. All of 3A was about him feeling like he was nothing without the job, because saving lives is the only way he feels like he has value (which, now that we know about it, goes back to the Daniel of it all). He has made his life about other people, and we've seen him stuck in this cycle - he'll be forced to step away from the job and/or he'll take some other small step towards healing, but then he'll go back and immediately fall back into his old habits. And meanwhile, he's trying to find happiness, but even his "year of yes" has ironically been defined not by doing something for himself, but by giving pieces of himself away so someone else can have a baby.

But he died. And more to the point, he died on the job. And he's not okay. And part of why I think it could be argued that he's not okay is because he's not really processing, not really healing, is still defining himself at least in part by what he can do for other people (even though accepting that he needed to live for himself/couldn't just be the guy who fixes things is what got him out of the coma) because that's what being a firefighter has been about for him from the beginning - a way to feel needed, a way to feel valued, a way to feel loved. But part of his healing journey is about truly accepting (not just incrementally like in the coma dream) in real life that he is more than that. Abby's fear that if she came back she would lose herself again? Is exactly what Buck has been doing. And as Dr. Salazar pointed out, one of the things some people do when they die is quit their job...or go to Italy...(both of which Abby did)...and to me, unlike Eddie who quit and came back because it was where he truly wanted to be, I just have a feeling that Buck's journey could be more than that. Could be realizing that the family he's built with all of them, the way he's loved, none of that would go away just because they stop working together (and, frankly, them no longer working together is inevitable - Bobby's going to retire eventually, Chim and Hen should both be Captains someday and it can't be at the same house, if Buck and Eddie start dating they could very well not be allowed to work together...etc etc), and that he can do something else...idk, it's something I'm mulling over.

(Also, something about Buck being a teacher in his coma dream...his subconscious making him a teacher in an imaginary world where Daniel had lived...yeah...thinking thoughts)

#chapel talks #ask #anonymous #evan buckley