#same old discourse

[sissa-arrows]

Arabs are not native to North Africa, that's like saying white people are native to South America or South America. They're all there because of colonialism.

Except there’s tons of studies proving that the “Arabs” of North Africa are not descendants of Arabs but Arabized natives.

Very few Arab tribes settled in North Africa and the process of arabization was way more cultural than demographic. For example in a 2017 study that used Tunisia to represent North Africa they concluded that we were 88% North Africans/Imazighen, 2% from Western and Central Africa, 4% Arabs and 5% Europeans.

So Arabs as a whole are not native to North Africa but the people living there and calling themselves “Arabs” are native not colonizers.

You can totally condemn the arabization but claiming that Arabized natives are colonizers is stupid.

Lastly as I always say as an Algerian our grandparents fought for a FREE ALGERIA. For an ALGERIAN ALGERIA. They didn’t fight for an Arab Algeria or an Amazigh Algeria. So I don’t give a flying fuck if people are Arabized or not. We’re Algerians that’s it.

#ask #North Africa #arabization #same old discourse #it often comes from people who never opened a book and don’t know the difference between Arabs and people who have been Arabized.

[yujateaandpi]

hold on I’m going to be emo about Digimon for a moment. The whole essence of the franchise is “my good weird talking dog loves me soooo much and all they want is to live peacefully by my side but when my life is threatened (which is often) they transform into an immensely powerful being just so they can give their life up for mine. And sometimes they do and sometimes they are reborn but other times they do not come back and there is no way to repay or fill their loss. And sometimes I betray them but they will forgive me forever no matter how I mistreat them. And sometimes they forget who I am but they will never stop following me because that love doesn’t go away. All they want is to stay small and get head scritches and snacks but the world gets threatened literally every day so they’re always fighting for me. We live in two different worlds and they can’t always be next to me but they’ll wait. They’ll wait years and even when I’m older and have changed they’ll know who I am. They don’t understand why I’ve changed but in their eyes, I’m still the same child.”

#If my dog #who I love with all my soul #turns into a guardian angel and dies protecting me #what then #yes yes I have the same interests as a ten year old boy #it’s fine we’ll cry together (it’s not fine) #I will not tolerate Pokémon/ Digimon discourse either they’re both good for different reasons #digimon #digimon adventure

[theminecraftbee]

so a thing this fandom does that remains FASCINATING to me, as a function of the fact a lot of this fandom is people's first fandom or only current fandom, is just... assume a lot of things it does is a scourge that this fandom has invented or doesn't exist outside of it? or like, is uniquely bad here? and i won't deny that sometimes mcyt fandom is a bit more intense by virtue of numbers, but like...

duo names: confusing fandom-injokes to describe duos and groups tend to be an anime fandom thing specifically for many historical reasons, but they're not uncommon. hey quick--if you haven't been in KHR fandom, can you guess what 1827 is? no? i'll give you a hint: that's actually a ship name. or, ygo fans, tell me the difference between puppyshipping, prideshipping, violetshipping, and rivalshipping. my hint is that they're all kaiba ships and two of them are actually the same ship. good luck!

reducing characters to a specific trait: have you read fic in another fandom before? i would recommend you go do so and come back to me. my example here is "sasuke likes tomatoes", for the record.

common au fanon that's confusing to outsiders: my deep cut here is "when i got into certain tv fandoms i was baffled by the existence of sentinel/guide fics", which is a slightly older tv fandom thing so many of you probably don't know what i'm on about. but trust me: in certain fandoms it's ubiquitous and unless you've watched a completely different tv show you're gonna have to entirely pick it up from reading fic. oh hey, hybrid aus and watcher!grian, nice to see your relative here,

fanon being treated as canon: did you know there's this whole bnha character, naomasa, who is treated as canonically having a lie detector quirk? did you know that, best i can tell, that's not in canon anywhere, it just got echoed through fanon enough that everyone treated it as canon? 'fanon trait becomes so ubiquitous everyone assumes it has to be there' is not a new thing. also, batfamily fans, i have been lead to understand the tim and coffee thing is also this.

characters being treated badly to make a different dynamic look better: the fact we have the term 'character bashing' tells you all you need to know, here. if anything my one complaint on this front isn't even that it's happening--it's that i wish bashing and/or "not [character] friendly" was tagged a little more frequently, haha.

characters being reduced to their family dynamics: tale as old as time. "even the family dynamic thing" yes even that. just because this fandom tended to be particularly ship-adverse in the past didn't mean it didn't do basically the same behaviors as any fandom with shipping did with those dynamics, just gen. and other gen fandoms also do that. yes, down to the "and shipping reduces them to a ship, unlike my gen dynamic, which is very in-character; why can't people just be friends?" thing. some of you have to have been marvel fans right.

characters being reduced to their ships: some of you have to have been marvel fans right.

The Discourse: yeah this is an "actively running show" fandom thing, but also a hiatus fandom thing. ask a homestuck about vriskourse sometime. as much as i hate to say it, it probably made doomsday discourse look cute.

and those are just like... some things i've seen people complain about on my dash recently. idk it just hit me there are probably fans in mcyt fandoms who are assuming that some things (like hybrid aus or duo names) are the kind of things that only happen here, so i thought i'd offer some examples of other places they happen! i also have even more examples if you'd like.

to be clear: this isn't shaming anyone for complaining about any of these things. lord knows i go complain to my friends about it all the time, just the other day i was complaining in the category of 'they keep bashing my guy'. it's more of just... a gentle reminder that maybe we're big, maybe we're loud, maybe we have problems... but these problems aren't always unique.

so uh. we're all suffering together i guess...?

#discourse #<- because. yeah. #this isn't meant to start a discourse this is more me laughing about Fandoms Is The Same #its also why i'm not bringing up the More Serious types of Fandoms Is The Same because i don't want to make light of it #and am instead bringing up the pettier ones #this sparked initially by someone acting like duo names are a this-fandom only phenomenon after years of being a ygo fan #and i was like. oh i've done this song and dance many a time. #and then i was thinking about posts complaining about things like fd and ships and everything else and i was like. oh that's an OLD song #so here. so we all remember sometimes that we all suffer together lol #this isn't a vague of anyone in particular i just constantly waver about making this specific post #anyway back to my usual discourse-free self

[theweeklydiscourse]

It’s just interesting to observe the differences in how people treat Zukka vs how they treat Zutara. Because I searched Zutara on TikTok to look for some edits and the comments were filled to the brim with people saying “But Katara belonged with Aang 🥺” or “How can you ship Zuko with her after Mai said such a romantic line?” Or perhaps the most insufferable of all “Maturing is realizing that Zuko would’ve thrown himself in from of lightning for ANYONE” as if that’s some revolutionary reading of the text. It’s so irritating how this kind of behaviour is…accepted by the fandom.

But you don’t get that with Zukka, instead you see people gushing over how sweet they are together, hailing it as a wholesome and unproblematic ship, praising artworks of it with positivity and appreciation. It’s difficult to find much negativity under Zukka posts, you won’t see people saying “But Sokka belongs with Suki 🥺” or boldly going on a tangent about how another ship is SO much better. I saw one person praise Zukka as the most unproblematic ATLA ship because of how little conflict there was about it, that you wouldn’t see the same hostility among that fandom as you might with Zutara.

But there’s a reason for that which has less to do with Zutara shippers themselves, and more to do with the harassment and hostility they face on all sides of the fandom. Fans will go out of their way to antagonize Zutara shippers, they’ll feel brazen enough to leave backhanded or outright hostile comments under Zutara posts and art, they’ll interject their shipping opinions in spaces where nobody asked and condescend Zutara shippers by framing them as shallow or delusional for shipping it.

I think Zukka is admittedly cute, and they definitely have their haters, but the difference between it and Zutara is astounding. It’s incredibly frustrating to watch this phenomenon play out, especially when these shippers carry themselves with a kind of false moral superiority that can only be found in shipping discourse.

#especially ESPECIALLY when Zutara is constantly being hit with the old *colonizer x colonized* accusations #But somehow Zukka manages to avoid that same criticism despite Sokka being from the same tribe as Katara #Frustrating as a poc zutara shipper to constantly be accused of being a white person romanticizing a supposedly *colonizer romance* dynamic #katara #Zuko #pro zutara #atla discourse #atla fandom #atla fandom salt #atla fandom critical #shipping discourse #enemies to lovers #anti Zukka #anti maiko #avatar the last airbender

[demolitionwoman-blog]

Gonna start some discourse:

By far the WORST part of S2 is that we did NOT get any glimpses of Ed’s BELLY!

Seriously, wtf??? So many opportunities and not only did we not get even a sliver of tum but the shirt was FULLY TUCKED IN 😡😡😡

I’m disappointed no one is talking about this travesty tbh

#meet me in the Waffle House parking lot Gypsy Taylor I just wanna talk #rip Ed Teach’s crop tops #we were all FERAL for the tummy how could they do this to us #hyperbole but also I am legit a bit upset about it #let me objectify that man who is the same age as me and therefore not at all old #ofmd discourse #our flag means death

[nellasbookplanet]

The funniest kind of critical role "critique" is always going to be the 'they present themselves as if they aren’t rich/a company no I will not give any examples' crowd. Like what does this even mean. They start literally every single episode with informing you they are professional voice actors. They have clearly advertised sponsors. They have an entire line of merch and an animated show. The production value of the set is bonkers. They run a charity foundation. Do you want them to start every episode with a blaring siren and a warning saying 'beware! company run content! we make money!!' Are you just angry that they are friends having fun as they make a living. Do you have any understanding of how money works.

#critical role #it's always the same people who think they could’ve funded tlovm in its entirety with the kickstarter money too #or that the cast is personally responsible for every single fan acting badly #'how dare they say don’t forget to love each other when their fans are sometimes mean!' like cmon #my theory is that some people are so unable to view celebrities as actual people that they’ve started to view the critrole cast the same #as those corporately run social media accounts pretending to be fun and friendly while just trying to advertise #i don’t know how to tell you that the cast really are friends playing a game. they are also a company. and actual people hanging out online #they are incredibly open about all of this #if you somehow still think they are presenting themselves as not a company that is frankly a skill issue #cr discourse #i came across one of those old posts and was reminded how silly a take this is #nella talks cr

[thosemintcookies]

I think there's a huge disconnect these days where images are communal when it's about saying right click save to nft bros but somehow protecting the sanctity of image ownership when talking about artists online. Like follow the thread. Thinking you Own an image or idea just because ypu made it does a disservice to the idea of art-as-sharing including engaging with remixing and recontextualizing and replication.

Like yes artists deserve recognition over the products of what they make but monopolizing something intrinsically shred is so wrongheaded. IP law will not protect you when it's always the richer culture producer who can gird up with lawyers to defend that your works are derivative enough to be considered theirs not yours.

Like yes talk about injustices and bad usage as they exist but it's not a problem with ai. Same shit can be said about using Photoshop or something come on now

#ai discourse #any argument thats about protecting the sanctity of real art is a step towards regressive notions about what art is thats centuries old #if we want to protect labour rights and prtect compensation for those who deserve it say that #like yes we should be against execs wanting to replace background actors and cover artists #but same shit happened with photoshop and canva and cgi #there are more specific discussions to be had and ai is literally just a tool like any other

[the--firevenus]

Honest to god if your entire criticism to aang and his final decision to spare ozai is "it's boring!" then I think you should stop watching ATLA and better yet stop talking about aang character in general.

Because I know you'd whole argument just miserable to listen to, your whole point of view to the world is miserable, lack of whimsical and joy, may one day you found that again for now, shut up.

#aang #This fandom is almost 20 years old and people still don't know how to tag too like damn y'all just sad at this point #I hate fandom discourse but this argument just TIRING to listen to anymore cuz it's the same old bs #It's so old and repetitive like shut the fuck up! #If you can see the ending as something hopeful than I don't trust any of your judgement cuz you're miserable! #Anyway fuck you if you hate aang I'm so serious #*can't #atla #Pro aang #venus rant

[emblazons]

cut because I still remember that anon that said they prefer my fencesitting LMFAO

We as a people really need to spend some time with our byler elders (@kaypeace21 and co) because I promise you they figured out Mike was gay years before the "uppity" analysts of today did....and have pulled out / contextualized evidence even I think is crazy to read considering it was based on S3 alone 😂

Like? The fact that someone, arguably the strongest of the analysts of the fandom in their day, was writing “why I think Mike is gay and not Bi” and "what Mike said was projection of him not liking girls" in August 2019 with shit word for word bar for bar telling you the framework that brought us S4 Mike…friend you were a prophet before your time, and they maligned u for telling the truth, and now that we all see your vision people still think its debatable LMAO

#gay mike wheeler #the fact that the analysts of old who predicted ALMOST ALL we saw in S4 and walking into S5 were saying the same things we are #BEFORE #when that was the most fringe opinion you could have....lmao #I'm not starting discourse about this again but. like. the weight of your strongest analysts all taking the same side FOUR YEARS AGO? #the evidence in one direction is...much stronger. lets just say that LMAO #people DEFINITELY didn't understand kaypeace either tho so. Can't say I'm surprised its still a 'debate' even if much less so ☠️ #also now thinking about the Elliott/ET parallel somehow didnt AUTOMATICALLY undermine a romantic mlvn reading from the pitch for folks LMFA #stranger things #the me tag

[somethingoriginal127]

annabeth defender of wrongs and rights till the day i die but why are pjo fans on twitter obsessed with saying percy and annabeth shouldn’t be together and using calypso and rachel as a reference for why? heaven forbid the 13-15 year old with severe abandonment issues pushes her bff she has crush on into the arms of literally anyone else more than once and he’s rightfully confused and hurt and makes other female friends for 3 seconds why are yall so mad 😭

also it literally would have been so fucking boring if percy and annabeth just -were-. we needed the jealousy and tension are you guys boring or what.

and if i speak on how we need to keep luke pretending he’s romantically interested in annabeth bc it’s important to her view/development on love and relationships and luke’s gross desperation to get anyone his side-🫣

i think maybe everyone doesn’t read enough. i would die a slow painful death if books were so black and white. pls never become published authors. ❤️

#i can’t tell how old they are bc i’m probably too old to be involved in the discourse #but they’re so annoying lmao #and they all think their takes are so clever and well rounded #pls hush #😭😭 #percabeth #pjo #pjo twitter #percy jackson #annabeth chase #they keep saying they want the show to write out percy entertaining rachel #…why? #that is a big factor in annabeth and percy realizing they’re feelings #the media literacy skills are non existent i fear #same with the luke manipulating annabeth with her crush storyline #how is that too much for you to understand and handle and you’re old enough to be on twitter 😭 #luke castellan #but i know will rick will scrap it #bc it makes the gp uncomfy 🤨 #percy jackson and the last olympian #pjo tv show #pjo series

[pillowprincessvarric]

Yeah a lot of people like Just realized that their childhood is over and it's never coming back. Yeah and that things are never going to feel the way they felt when they were a kid. Yeah no they keep going back to things they loved as a child and it never hits the same because they're big now and it's making them depressed. Yeah this is actually the root of like 60% of the conversations that are happening on twitter right now. Yeah.

#can we not do ''wdym you're having a hard time ''transitioning'' ''out of YA books'' 🤨'' discourse again #yeah there's a lot of people desperately struggling to have the same relationship to reading as a 25 year old #as they did when they were 13 and its not possible but they want it to be and its making them weird #we've all seen it. #stop acting like you haven't seen it. we do this every six months

[brokenbackmountain]

over 25000 palestinians dead and i'm STILL seeing pjo posts on my dash. your childhood faves (funded by zionists!) cannot possibly be more important than the lives of real living breathing people.

#disney is literally funding the genocide and y'all clowns wanna post and like shit on this show #BE SERIOUS! #please leave this shit behind. i'm so serious #coming from someone who grew up with percy jackson: please stop. these 12 year olds are being funded by a multibilliondollar company- #-funding the iof. #one thousand and one better media out there. you're all awful #and to the people pirating it bc they don't want disney to get money: stop reblogging posts. stop liking them. stop ENGAGING #stop having them as your pfpic. you are NOT helping! #keep that shit to yourself! #need pjo to die like harry potter so bad i'm not even joking. you're not superior for liking the white american made by bigots instead of #the white brit made by bigots #you're all the same. #pjo #yeah i'm tagging it. idc this isn't fandom discourse #anti pjo #percy jackson #disney #anti disney #rick riordan #anti rr

[burr-ell]

I didn't want to make this post by @utilitycaster even longer than it was or derail from the immediate subject, so I'm making my own to discuss these frustratingly apt tags:

#tangent but the best way to put it is that there is a FRIGHTENING lack of empathy among a certain set of shippers #and every other character is constant collateral and right now Orym's on the chopping block#but like. feed fcg the coin? guests merely exist to make the relationship happen? Orym would be happier dead? #how dare ashton express they have also experienced trauma? shitting on every past deity-aligned character? it's a real pattern.

Because I was reminded that this is also, by my estimation, the reason a lot of people were genuinely upset with C3 Percy. Some corners of the fandom had spent months building up fanon where Percy, one half of one of the most iconic CR ships (and therefore a huge form of potential validation), would do everything in his power to make Imodna happen bring Laudna back to life and get rid of Delilah. And then Bell's Hells actually met him, and it turned out that under the circumstances, Percy was an individual with his own thoughts and feelings about death and fate who'd had thirty years to reflect and had reservations about resurrection even laying aside the Delilah situation.

It didn't matter that he explicitly said he wasn't rejecting the idea of bringing Laudna back entirely. It didn't matter that he had very good reasons to behave this way, reasons that the entire fandom was reminded about rather viscerally less than a year beforehand. It didn't matter that once he was assured there was no threat, he was actually really helpful and genuinely kind to Laudna in particular. If he wasn't immediately accommodating to fanon and validating the juggernaut ship, he was an irredeemable asshole who deserved to be "humbled" by having his wife and close friend go behind his back despite any reasons they might have to be concerned. (Which, to be clear, they didn't do, but the "nyah-nyah, Vex and Pike totally OWNED that rich old geezer cause they're strong women who do what they want!" sentiment was very obnoxious and I was pleased to see that Matt torpedoed it.)

#cr discourse #not saying that those fanons and headcanons were inherently bad #but you cannot become so invested in fanon and headcanon that you lose sight of the actual narrative #i'm a firm believer that shallow narratives are the problem rather than popular ones #there's a fic written post-gnarlrock incident that's really good bc it actually examines the weight of the issues #it's called 'new portrait same old halls' by umwelt/blorbologist and it's great #it's genuinely introspective and examines how the characters would actually interact with each other #and respects the trauma of all characters involved without wallowing in it (and also brings in cass <3) #blorb went 'hm but how would this fanon actually play out' and then she did it and was both realistic and KIND. legend

[batsarebetterthanpeople]

"*band everyone generally agrees is Emo* isn't Emo, this is real emo" and then it's a punk band from the 90s that is only distinguishable from blackflag or misfits owing to the fact that it is clearly comprised of sad faggots instead of angry closet cases.

I have to ask when are we gonna admit it's not a real music genre and it's all punk and pop punk all the way down? Like is screamo a secret other genre? Yes absolutely screamo is different, but any attempt to find a non-screamo emo genre ends up running into the "wait isn't this just punk/pop punk?" Problem

#i checked out the bands on that old website from the late 90s that originated the term emocore #it listed 80s punk band ignition #eternally cackling at this discourse. were just punks in a new coat of paint #same as it ever was

[carlyraejepsans]

dare i ask what happened between you and the deltarune discord

well well, you may as well tell me! considering i have no clue HAHAHAHAHA. I'm not actually in any deltarune servers myself, i only see screenshots float by like whale carcasses on the sea of the internet/hear of drama from pals and followers who do go there and think "hm! not dealing with that!"

#also just in general. you get any fandom with a wide enough fanbase composed of 15 year olds #*cough* and 18 year olds that have the same level of maturity lol #and you're gonna get people who are really hardcore about fandom/ship discourse #and I've always made it pretty clear that i think it's dumb as fuck and people need to chill #+ being a semi popular blog well they're gonna see me around and be annoyed by it. I'm assuming that's what that was about anyway #anyway if you got beef with me either come kiss me about it or keep minding your business 🙏 i don't wanna hear that #answered asks

[sonik-kun]

As much as I love to read into the deeper, inner meanings of fiction, especially where my favourite characters are concerned, I really think MDZS isn't meant to be taken that seriously. It's been like years on since the book was first released, and people are still bringing up the same dull, discourse that doesn't bring anything new to the table at all.

All it's doing is ruining what should be a fun, fandom experience. It's like, don't y'all get bored? Discussing nuances to a book that may or may not exist, over inflating character actions and being disingenuous about certain characters just to uplift your faves? All of it has already been discussed.. Way too many times over. You have your own opinion on the text, I have my own. Stick to your faves and stop ruining everyone's fandom experience just because you've interpreted it a certain way.

It's even more irksome when the text they're over analysing isn't meant to be that deep. I remember there being a post claiming JC was abusive to WWX, their only evidence being the scene where he strangled him.. Right after a very traumatic event.

We can see in the scene that JC was not of sound mind. And in fiction, writers tend to exaggerate that aspect for the sake of dramatics, to keep the audience hooked. It wasn't meant to be a deep scene, highlighting JC's "abusive nature" towards WWX. The takeaway from that scene is that JC's parents had died, their sect wiped out and now they're two orphans thrown into a war torn world. You were supposed to sympathise with them, not read deeply into a child's trauma response. It wasn't that deep, lmao.

I think this reading too deeply into things is what has ruined the fandom and has given it its fame for toxicity :\

It's annoying, too, because I wish these people would maintain that consistency and read deeply into their own faves' actions.. But they don't, which is really telling that this isn't a case of applying accurate media literacy but rather a severe case of main character syndrome

#mxtx mdzs #mo dao zu shi #canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #discourse #It's getting old #every day i see the same boring ass takes #im tired