#thank you George Lucas for creating the Jedi

[fairypowerful]

Before I begin, I just wanna throw these out:

• “ ‘Missing out on love’ isn't something that matters as much when your society isn't amatonormative.”

• “When the world around you doesn't emphasize marriage and romance and all that, then wouldn't you view cultures that do as a tad odd? Not weird in a bad way, just different.”

• “[…] People cannot fathom the concept that other people might experience romantic attraction, and do so intensely, and yet value something else above romance.”

• You just don’t have those feelings of “I need romance, I need marriage” when your society isn’t broken by being amatonormativity. You just don’t have those feelings when you’re already fulfilled in a community. You just don’t have those feelings when you have a purpose in life.

• “Call me crazy, but I know for a fact that I would not want a romantic relationship if I was a Jedi […] […] […] I honestly don't understand the assumption that ‘the Jedi are miserable because they can't get married,’ I really don't.”

• There’s romance and marriage in every single media and literature, so why should it be inserted into a fictional monastic culture? If you don’t think entire groups of people could choose to have no romantic commitments their entire life, then there’s over a thousand-year nonfictional accounts of monks and nuns and priests choosing to live a single life in an environment that, too, forbids them from romantic commitments, and they lived in contentment and peace.

————————————————

I wanted to show all that first, like a little preview, because this post is not only about why the Jedi are not wrong for disallowing romantic commitments and marriage, but it’s also about amatonormativity which has always been an enormous problem in the real world, and it clearly impacts how people view communities like the Jedi within fiction.

———

“So why can't Jedi marry? The Jedi believe that children and spouses deserve complete attention. They believe that people deserve present parents and involved partners. Being a Jedi isn't a job. It's a lifestyle. How dare they preach compassion and fairness and justice whilst leaving some abandoned child somewhere? How dare they teach kindness and love and self sacrifice while having a neglected spouse?” — @popupguidetothegalaxy (original post here)

This right here! It wouldn’t stop the criticisms within that part of the fandom, it’d just redirect it to a different one.

Even if the Jedi did marry and have families, y’all (Jedi antis) would then criticize the Jedi for prioritizing the galaxy (which is literally their vocation, their aspiration, and their lifestyle) over their spouses and children.

On top of their daily galactic duties that « take them away from the temple on assignments or missions, away from the planet that temple is located on, and always on the move interstellar-wise » ,,, antis think the Jedi should/could be able to marry and raise a family properly with zero neglect of either spouse and child?

Forget about being burnt out like a nurse in a severely understaffed hospital, it’s just simply an impossible commitment!

———

I watched “Tiger Cruise” rather recently, because it’s one of those Disney movies I never watched growing up, and one conversation in the movie puts this into even more perspective – because the teenaged main character is sick & tired of always only seeing her Navy commander father for a few weeks every few months, begging him to quit the Navy and come home for good.

Maddie: Dad, when are you coming home?

Commander Dolan: What do you mean? We're gonna be docking on Friday.

Maddie: No, I mean… When are you coming home for good?

Commander Dolan: Is that why you came on board? To ask me that? [pause] Look, this is my job.

Maddie: Then get a new one. You've got the degrees, you can do like anything you want.

Commander Dolan: This is what I do.

Maddie: [pause] Must be nice .. travel all over the world, no responsibilities.

Commander Dolan: I'm responsible to a lot of people.

Maddie: To strangers, Dad. What about us? [pause] We’re strangers too. We move all over the place, see you for a few weeks every four or five months, or whenever the Navy says it's okay.

Commander Dolan: The Navy is a way of life. I mean, you go into it and you know the sacrifices you have to make.

Maddie: Well, you’ve done it for my entire life.

Seriously, is this what Jedi antis want? It’s misery, and not necessarily on the parent’s part — he’s HAPPY and LOVES his job. He has the degrees to do anything he wants, as Maddie pointed out, but he doesn’t leave the Navy. It’s the same with the Jedi, as they have the best education and biggest library in the galaxies. And yet…

(some Jedi-Critical) and Anti-Jedi fans think the Jedi are miserable and why the Order is “wrong” for disallowing it [which is just projecting their subjective view of “what a fulfilling life is supposed to look like” onto a monastic people who value and find fulfillment in something other than romance], but it would actually be miserable if they did have families.

Pushing aside the fact that the Jedi are a monastic (and not only martial) organization, there’s a legit reason for disallowing marriage and committed relationships. It’s not fun and games. You can’t combine two enormous commitments and think you can handle it without neglecting the other. There’s no such thing as a part-time Jedi, it’s not a job title!

Jedi are able to leave the Order peacefully, they aren’t forced to stay, but on this specific topic, you just don’t have those feelings of « I need romance, I need marriage » when your society isn’t broken by being amatonormativity. You just don’t have those feelings when you’re already fulfilled in a community. You just don’t have those feelings when you have a purpose in life.

How dare they be happy and fulfilled by being Jedi? How dare they show their commitment to the Order by making the active and daily choice to be Jedi, when they could leave any time? How dare they stick their middle finger up at the no-romance/no-marriage rule? How dare the Jedi not conform to the “education → graduation → relationship → engagement → wedding → 2 kids and a dog” trajectory that only an amatonormative society expects of you? How dare the Jedi be monastic and live like it too?

———

(Words belong to @phoenixyfriend)

• “ ‘Missing out on love’ isn't something that matters as much when your society isn't amatonormative”

• “When your culture is one that emphasizes compassion for all [...] Don't you think that people might just not think of marriage as something worth striving for?”

• “When the world around you doesn't emphasize marriage and romance and all that, then wouldn't you view cultures that do as a tad odd? Not weird in a bad way, just different.”

I just keep thinking about the real world and how so much of the obsession with marriage and so on is a sociocultural thing. You don't want a big white dress because it's a big white dress: you want it because it is the symbol that your culture has been pushing on you since you were two. Girls are taught to fantasize about weddings and marriage and to like A Certain Look for it, sometimes to such a degree that they can spend decades in denial about things like their sexualities.

And we're unlearning that as a society, people are being more critical of the institution and how they engage with it, are starting to question what it is that our media teaches us, asking 'why is marriage the most important thing in a girl's life, or in anyone's life' and generally moving towards a world where marriage exists but is not treated as a universal life goal.

But the Jedi are just. Already doing that.”

• “Marriage is not an inherent human/sapient want. Companionship is! We are biologically wired to be social creatures! […] But marriage? A signed sheet of paper? That's not...inherent. Fidelity and monamory? Sure, maybe. Plenty of species mate for life. But... humans have been proving that's a choice for most of history.”

— (original post, here)

Even without the galactic scale of their lifestyle and duties, is it really so hard to understand or believe that people wouldn’t be miserable in a society where romance is not considered an important thing at all?

If you don’t think entire groups of people could choose to have no romantic commitments their entire life, then there’s over a thousand-years history of monks and nuns choosing to live a single life in an environment that, too, forbids them from romantic commitments, and they lived in contentment and peace.

They’re not only connected to other Jedi through the Force, they are connected to the rest of the universe through the Force; they find joy in their selflessness, in helping people, in trying their best to do good in a universe permeated with corruption. They love being a Jedi, there’s nothing a romantic relationship can give them that’s as fulfilling as being Jedi.

Just…stop projecting your amatonormative misery onto the Jedi.

———

If millions of people around the world in real-life can choose not to ever get married and have children (without even being a part of a close-knit community like the Jedi), despite being bombarded with amatonormativity in media and literature almost everyday, then what’s so weird about a fictional group (who are literally warrior-monks and whom have all of their companionship needs met within their non-amatonormative community) choosing to be single in favor of a higher calling and lifestyle that’s far more valuable and fulfilling than having a romantic relationship?

———

(Words belong to @jedi-enthusiast)

• “Call me crazy, but I know for a fact that I would not want a romantic relationship if I was a Jedi.

If I lived somewhere where I was a part of a community of people that I considered my mentors, my friends, my family; if I lived somewhere where I was encouraged to learn, to travel, to help people, to enjoy life as it is, and better myself; if I lived somewhere where I was supported and loved and cared for by the community, and I did the supporting, the loving, the caring for other people in the community as well; if I lived somewhere where it wasn't constantly implied, or sometimes outright stated, that my worth was tied to me marrying a man, popping out children, and making money...

...if I was a Jedi, I can honestly say that the thought of pursuing a romantic relationship probably wouldn't cross my mind at all---not unless I met someone specific whom I felt that sort of connection with, but even then, I probably wouldn't give up being a Jedi to be with them because I'd feel more fulfilled as a Jedi than I would in a romantic relationship.

I honestly don't understand the assumption that the Jedi are miserable because they can't get married, I really don't.

If you feel like you wouldn't be able to be fulfilled without a romantic partner, then that's fine! Everyone's different! We all have different wants and needs! But just accept that you wouldn't be fulfilled without a romantic relationship and stop acting like it's impossible for anyone else to feel differently.

The Jedi all seem perfectly happy as they are.”

— (original post, here)

I also wanna add, because I don’t know where to put this statement … there’s romance and marriage in every single media and literature, so why should it be inserted into a fictional monastic culture? They’re not only warriors, they’re monks too.

It’s a rhetorical question…but I think either they’re so marriage-obsessed that they hadn’t thought of this. Or they are consciously aware of the over-saturation of romance within media when they talk about how the Jedi Order are wrong for disallowing romantic relationships, but they don’t care because they think higher callings are stupid and anything else is inferior to a romance/marriage.

———

(Words belong to @tookas-have-teeth) (original post here)

• “There is a difference between people saying that everyone feels romantic attraction and that it is necessary to being human [arophobia] and the comments a lot of people make about the Jedi.

Oftentimes, when I see complaints about the Jedi, it's because people are angry that people who DO feel romantic attraction might not choose to act on it, or might be part of an organization that requires its members to give up romantic relationships and marriage. People cannot fathom the concept that other people might experience romantic attraction, and do so intensely, and yet value something else above romance.

People consider this to be a cruel denial and repression of one's feelings, rather than seeing it as a choice people are making to prioritize things they value. People have SO bought into the idea that romance is the Ultimate Form of Love, that romance is necessary to live a fulfilled life, that they cannot imagine folks finding other forms of love more fulfilling, especially if those folks experience romantic attraction.”

—

[a comment within the post linked immediately above] “By claiming that people who experience romantic attraction *must* act on it or else they are oppressed, one is functionally insulting every priest, monk, nun, or any number of members of a religious order who choose, of their own free will, not to pursue romance in favor of a higher calling.” — @supersaiyanjedi14

———

There’s only two other fictional worlds that I can think of off the top of my head, that are non-amatonormative. Blissfully fulfilled and happy …

… Equestria (My Little Pony) and Pixie Hollow (Disney Fairies).

After learning the word, I could now put a name to why these two worlds are my top favorites: It’s a non-amatonormative society where everyone’s happy with just a community and a purpose in their life, where romance is 100% not an important factor.

“But in Pixie Hollow, there’s no reproduction, so of course there wouldn’t be any relationships.”

There’s still love and attraction.

Rosetta gets a crush on Sled in Secret of the Wings, Queen Clarion and Lord Milori reveal they fell in love in the distant past. And Terrence has a crush on TinkerBell (although that might just be the printed media, ‘cause I don’t remember it being obvious in the movies).

Is it really so hard to understand or believe that in a society where romance is not considered an important thing at all, and people have (literal) power and a job that they love and a whole damn community for companionship, then those people wouldn’t be miserable?

So, again, stop projecting your allonormative and amatonormative misery onto the Jedi. ‘Cause that’s all it is: your projection.

It’s so sad that the real world can’t be like the aforementioned worlds. Our world makes it so hard for people; a majority don’t have jobs they love, or they don’t have time or money to pursue and grow their talents, and there’s no true community among us. It’s literally dystopian, and we only see it as “this is normal, it’s real life” because we don’t know any other way. But that’s quite a different topic, so…

—

I just wanted to add these, unrelated to Star Wars and fandoms, to point out how destructive it [amatonormativity and allonormativity] is in the real world. ‘Cause I do see tweets on my timeline, from time to time, where a user will be torn over not having a relationship at a certain age or their life not following the ‘right’ trajectory.

[posts by people outside of the Star Wars fandom]

— @uncanny-tranny (original post here)

• Amatonormativity has destroyed so many people's understanding and acceptance of themselves, and it's heartbreaking.

Yes, it is normal to be in your 20s, 30s, or older and not have lost your virginity, had a first kiss, or a partner. It is normal to say that you aren't ready for those things, too! It is normal if your life doesn't follow the "college graduate -> engagement -> buying a home -> 2.5 kids and a dog" trajectory that so many people have idealized.

So many people associate maturity with losing your virginity, or having a first kiss, or a serious relationship, and I think that's a dangerous association. Maturity isn't gained through those things, and you don't have to have those experiences to be considered "mature" or "grown." It is not a bad thing to go at your pace. Nobody else can live your life but you. If you end up having those experiences, that's great! But it should be done because you want to experience them, not because you feel "broken" and "immature" without them.

— @/acegirleatscake on Twitter

• Allonormativity and amatonormativity normalizes ableism: the “you must be cold, sick, delusional” or “there’s something wrong with you” if you don’t have sexual or romantic attractions or don’t want those types of relationships. Being single is seen as “being unwell.”

@/0p4l3sc3nt for this one (below)

• […] single people are constantly questioned about the legitimacy of our happiness […] In an Amatonormative society, our romantic relationships will always have ulterior motives (often subconscious) – which arise from us being conditioned to see romantic relationships as the means to achieve personhood, happiness, and TRUE purpose.

———

Sincerely, everyone in the Anti-Jedi circle needs to go outside, touch grass, and reflect on it.

If our society wasn’t amatonormative (if there was no such thing as our idealization of romance and marriage, if romantic relationships weren’t seen as the most important thing at all in our society), then nobody would have an issue with the Jedi Order disallowing it — for many legit reasons, might I again remind you! Their reasons make so much sense, yet your amatonormativity floods in and turns your brain into worms.

• “Fiction doesn't necessarily map onto people's real life opinions, but the statements people make about this topic are often very broad "the Jedi are bad for forbidding marriage, because people NEED romance" type statements that definitely sound like they're general worldviews rather than just opinions on fictional characters.” — @tookas-have-teeth (again)

This post was left in my drafts from a month ago (early August 2023), but seeing the topic come up again just made me kinda snap; and I don’t want to just scream into the void, so I’m posting it.

And I don’t care how repetitive some of it is, because that was very intentional. They’re like little reminders, so you don’t miss the point and might actually reflect on it.

HAVE A GOOD DAY!

#star wars #amatonormativity #pro jedi #fictional monastic cultures do not need romance or marriage when every single media is non-monastic and oversaturated with romance #in defense of the jedi #long post #allonormativity #this was in my drafts but I’m taking it out ‘cause I’m just sick and tired of ppl acting like the Jedi are miserable over the Order’s rule #I’m taking it out because I’m just so sick and tired of ppl acting like the Jedi don’t make the active daily CHOICE to be a Jedi #I’m sick and tired of allonormative and amatonormative-minded ppl in the fandom #thank you George Lucas for creating the Jedi #sw meta #star wars meta #I wish our society could be more like Equestria and Pixie Hollow and the Jedi #Our society is a dystopia

[antianakin]

I don’t know if you’re actually watching the Ahsoka series or not, but I was very curious on your thoughts on the newest episode, and the confrontation between Anakin and Ahsoka.

Bro traumatized her again. Lol. 😒🙃

I’m actually kind of satisfied that she showed a little resentment, but I still don’t like that she didn’t cuss him out or something.

Anakin not apologizing is infuriating at first glance, but I also think it fits his character.

It’s funny, if I think about it in a certain way: I wonder if Anakin himself views his “redemption” kind of the same way his fans do. He’s just like, “Why are you still pissed at me? I died stopping the Emperor, didn’t I?” 🙄

The only one I think he’d actually feel sad about is Leia, because of course he’d want his daughter to like him, but she never will now, because he fucking tortured her and blew up her planet.

You know… I don’t really view Anakin’s final moments as a true “redemption” in the eyes of the galaxy. George Lucas has a quote where he says parents are redeemed in the eyes of their children. I guess you could argue that Anakin redeemed himself in Luke’s eyes, but not the galaxy’s own.

And then there’s Leia, who will never forgive him or think of him as her father.

In a way, it’s almost fitting for Anakin, that each of his children represent something for him.

Luke represents forgiveness, and how it’s never too late to do the right thing.

Leia represents his mistakes and sins. As long as she lives, he’ll always look at her and remember the damage he’s done. She’d never let him forget it.

Which is funny, when going back to the recent Ahsoka episode, and how he was acting like a dick to Ahsoka.

Personally, I think he was purposely trying to piss her off to make her fight to not die.

Still though: he’s such a jackass. 😒

Anyways, I guess my main point is that I don’t view Anakin being a Force Ghost shows that he was “redeemed.” I view it more as a type of salvation. Like the Bible story where Jesus is on the cross with two other men next to him. And then one man decides to “believe in him” or whatever, and his soul is saved by the skin of his teeth.

This is kind of how I view Anakin’s act of saving Luke. His soul was saved, because he did a heel face turn at the last second. So The Force was like, “Good enough, I guess.” *Throws up hands*

Anyways, sorry for the long rambling. I hope you don’t mind the message. Haha. 😅 I just have found your blog really therapeutic, because while I like Anakin as the fascinating character that he is, it still just kills me how fandom woobifies him and blames the Jedi for their own genocide.

I don't mind this message at all, thanks so much for sending so many of your thoughts, this was great! It's going to be a long reply back, though, since there's so much to respond to and if you've been going through my blog, this probably won't surprise you.

I AM watching the Ahsoka show, I'm just putting my thoughts about it on a different blog to this one (this blog was created for me to be negative so I usually only review things on here if I KNOW I'm going to be negative about it, but I was hopeful I'd have positive things to say about the Ahsoka show lol).

I think I'm feeling RELATIVELY mediocre about the show. Like I don't hate the whole thing, I can see why it appeals to people, but it's not really hitting at what I would've wanted from a narrative perspective. It seems to be relying on fan service and pretty visuals rather than genuinely good writing to get them through. If you happen to be the fan being serviced, you probably like it fine. But if you are someone more like me, then you might be noticing that there aren't a lot of stakes, the character motivations are weak or missing, the two storylines aren't being spliced together very well, and the dialogue's just not that great. There's also several more nitpicky things that are really pissing me off about the show (the way they're treating Force sensitivity, Sabine being a Jedi at all for no good reason and how her character is being butchered, the very distant and aloof acting I feel like we're getting from everybody, and of course the requisite anti-Jedi bullshit that we can all expect from Filoni at this point).

But as for how I felt about Anakin and Ahsoka's scenes in the latest episode this week, I am personally of the opinion that it WASN'T Anakin at all. I know it's left ambiguous, so if people feel like it was truly Anakin in some way shape or form, that's fine, but I think it makes more sense to me personally that it wasn't. This is Ahsoka's manifestation of Anakin in a moment where she's literally drowning and emotionally at something of a low point and has to decide if she's going to live or not and that conflict plays out in her head the way we see it. I'm also open to the idea that this is one of those things where the Force "tests" the Jedi not unlike what we see happen on Ilum and Mortis and the Force is just utilizing Anakin's visage to bring Ahsoka's deepest fears out into the open.

What makes it interesting to me is that then we can look at the interactions as THIS IS HOW AHSOKA SEES HIM. Whether she thinks about it that deeply or not, THIS personality is how she remembers him. The immediate choice to be violent with her and test her fighting skills rather than talk to her more gently, the dismissive attitude he has towards her, the flickering back and forth between Anakin and Vader because she doesn't truly know which one he was most. He wasn't necessarily a great teacher and his way of teaching wasn't very Jedi-like, it's ruthless and merciless and unkind, and we see that reflected in their interactions in this episode, which could be a really interesting look at how Ahsoka still remembers him even if she didn't see it negatively at the time.

So him not apologizing isn't like... an indication of how Anakin might actually handle this interaction if it were truly him so much as just... Ahsoka being unsure sure if he WOULD apologize because she has no idea how much of him was Vader the entire time and Vader would clearly never apologize. I think the Anakin we see by the end of ROTJ probably would apologize at SOME point, especially if we're supposed to see him as redeemed and acknowledging/accepting of his sins, etc. But Ahsoka doesn't know that. Ahsoka probably kind-of knows through Luke that he turned back in his last moments, but she wasn't there for that, she didn't get to see it, and she obviously still has no idea what caused him to turn on the Jedi and become a Sith to begin with. Why did he come back for Luke and not her? Was it because she abandoned him? Did he just not care about her the way she thought? Was there something intrinsically wrong with her that he recognized from the beginning?

There's just too much uncertainty perhaps for Ahsoka to know if he'd actually apologize and she doesn't even necessarily need or want an apology so much as she just wants to UNDERSTAND. Because of course it leads into her doubts about HERSELF and whether being his apprentice (even for as short of a time as it was) has somehow influenced her to be more like him and if she should be worried that she'll go dark or cause a student of hers to go dark. If she doesn't know why HE made that choice, how can she trust herself? It's not entirely dissimilar to the statement she made at the end of the Wrong Jedi arc where she claims she's leaving the Jedi because if the Council couldn't trust her then she isn't sure she can trust herself, either. And now with Anakin going dark, she has to wonder if the Council saw something of that in her when no one else did, saw a future for her that she hadn't been able to see for herself yet.

I think personally I'd just rather look at this episode as the closest we're going to get to a "deep dive" into Ahsoka's psyche and character rather than try to analyze it as like "what does this say about Anakin." It's not Anakin's story anymore, it's Ahsoka's. Or it's supposed to be, anyway.

That all being said, I don't think it went far enough and I do dislike that we didn't get to dive into OTHER aspects of Ahsoka via other relationships in order to round out who she actually is. I don't think we know any more about her at the end of the episode than we did at the beginning. I don't think she really grows or changes through the episode at all. I don't know what the whole "choose to live" thing was about or how it connects to her overall arc because while, yes, she's obviously literally drowning in the moment, "choosing to live" is not something they've been exploring as an issue for Ahsoka throughout this season so far, so it didn't feel like this cool end to her character journey so much as just a really shallow one-liner made to sound badass without anything particularly profound behind it.

I think gffa said that one of the things you can tell about this show is that it's been percolating in Filoni's mind for so long that there's things he's leaving out because they're just totally obvious to him now and he's forgotten that the audience won't know some of it without being told or shown. If Ahsoka was depressed or suicidal or something like that, it never came across in the first four episodes. She barely seems to be struggling at all to me, personally. So maybe that's what Filoni wanted us to understand about her, maybe that was the intention, but it just didn't quite make it from his head into the writing or onto the screen.

And I keep going back to the Obi-Wan Kenobi show and the way they handled his character arc. They started him at a really low point where he's so CLEARLY depressed and just moving through life without actually living or finding any way to be happy. They spend so much time showing us how OUT of character Obi-Wan is in order for the pay off by the end and the slow growth of his character throughout the six episode story to feel satisfying. And while he's out of character in his depression, it's done in such a way that that's the POINT. We all know WHY he's out of character, we know what's causing him to be that way, it doesn't need to be explained because it didn't happen off-screen, it's literally the plot of an entire trilogy of films. It felt like a pretty natural extension of the state we last saw him in and it allows him the ability to actually have a journey that makes sense.

We've gotten NONE OF THAT for Ahsoka. Her relationship with Sabine is nonsensical and comes out of nowhere with zero explanation. Her weird thing about Padawans comes out of nowhere with zero explanation. Her aloof attitude is coming out of nowhere and does nothing to help us understand the state of mind she's in. She never seems to be acting SO out of character that it tells the audience how much she's struggling, but she's also SO flat that she no longer feels much like the Ahsoka everyone knew and loved from The Clone Wars. They're inventing new problems for her to have that make no sense instead of giving her a journey to actually deal with the problems she already had and hadn't gotten any resolution for. And they're unable to actually connect her problems from before into the Rebels storyline in a way that makes any real sense or feels genuine and meaningful for either Ahsoka or Sabine, so both storylines are getting half-assed and butchered in the attempt.

Personally, I think Ahsoka should've had a season set closer to ROTJ or even before it, just after she gets off of Malachor and 2-3 years prior to ANH, to explore her immediate reaction to Anakin's betrayal and have her overcome that on her own. Use original characters primarily, throw in Bail Organa or something if needed just to give her a quick plot, but let it be about AHSOKA. And only once her journey to finding herself is complete do we then move on to the Search for Ezra, which should be focusing WAY more on the Rebels characters than we're actually getting and should not involve any of the Rebels characters (except maybe Jacen) learning to be Jedi. Ahsoka would be a side character in this story because she has now had her story told and we can let Sabine and Ezra and Jacen and Hera be at the forefront of the story. (I also think we could've done something with Sabine that wasn't being a Jedi or her entire family being murdered off screen so she has an excuse to do a characterization 180 and act like a bratty teenager all over again.)

If I had to just change THIS episode a little, I have a few alternatives I've been thinking about. For one, I do just think we should've gotten to explore OTHER relationships beyond Anakin to emphasize the other things that Ahsoka is that aren't just "Anakin's Padawan." Rex, Barriss, Plo Koon, even Kanan or Ezra to try to make that connection to Rebels. She's been a friend, a commander, a rebel, a student, a mentor, an ally, a Jedi. She's been so many things that have nothing at all to do with Anakin and I think that might've been nice to explore as well. Yes, Anakin was important. Yes, she's fucked up about it. But that's not ALL THAT SHE IS. So I think starting off with her fears about Anakin is great, but then have her move on and sort-of go through it a little like Charles Dickens' A Christmas Story to show that she's more than this, too. This probably would've worked better if it had been a two parter thing rather than one 30-40 minute episode, depending on how many characters you wanted to throw in.

I also would've appreciated seeing her break and shatter at seeing Anakin. I wanted her to be ANGRY, to refuse to forgive him, to throw his betrayal in face. And then by the end of the episode, she lets it go. She's seen that she doesn't need to hold onto that anymore and it doesn't matter what choices Anakin did or didn't make, she's her own person and can make HER own choices. And so Anakin comes back at the end, and she's no longer angry. She can forgive him. I also would've wanted her to have been more snappy and frustrated and angry earlier in the season, as well, so we can TELL there's something simmering underneath that she's trying to keep repressed until it finally boils over in this episode.

The other alternative I came up with was the OPPOSITE idea where Ahsoka is basically just kind-of... in denial about it. She isn't acknowledging her own anger and pain and betrayal at all and she just wants to spend this time with Anakin the way they used to and Anakin is sitting there provoking her and trying to get her to break so she can let it all out. Eventually he gets her to admit it and get angry and yell at him and acknowledge her own pain finally so she can see how it's impacting her relationships in the present day. She's been trying up until now, but as Yoda's always said, sometimes trying isn't enough, and you just have to do or do not. She doesn't reject him at the end of this, but she can at least acknowledge what he did to her and how it's made her feel. You could even include some of her anti-Jedi bullshit in this and have her justifying Anakin's betrayal by saying the Jedi failed him the way they failed her and Anakin pushing back on that idea so that by the end of the episode, she can recognize that she's been blaming the Jedi because she's been uncomfortable with her inability to understand Anakin's choices and it was easier to blame the Jedi than live with that uncertainty.

I've discussed my feelings on Anakin's redemption a lot and they're definitely not in the majority. Personally, I just don't think he's redeemed at all. My definition of redemption is along the lines of "you can fix/undo the thing you broke/damaged" rather than just... "you decided to stop breaking things even if there's no way to fix it." It doesn't mean Anakin can't keep being a better person if he'd lived, or that he can't find redemption in more specific places (like Luke forgiving him for chopping off his hand), but that there is no redemption for what he did to the Jedi, to the clones, and to the galaxy at large. None. It doesn't matter what he does, it doesn't matter that he stopped himself and Palpatine, it doesn't MATTER. The Jedi and the Republic are still gone, the clones were still enslaved, the galaxy is still in shambles and traumatized from 25 years under the Empire.

You aren't the only one who's chosen to separate your definition of "redemption" from something else to make it make more sense. Someone else went for redemption being different from an absolution wherein you are just immediately forgiven of all of your sins because of one act or whatever, while redemption is the process of doing better. If that works for you, go for it. Personally, I just think Anakin isn't redeemed. He cheat coded his way into being a Ghost and the Ghosts don't make any sense anyway. I think it's definitely intended to represent his redemption IN THE NARRATIVE, like that's the point of the visual, but it just doesn't work for me, so I choose not to see it that way. It's ambiguous enough and the Force Ghost lore confusing enough that it's not that hard.

Your interpretation of Luke and Leia as the two sides of forgiveness is intriguing. I do think Leia could get to the point of forgiveness that basically looks like letting go of her anger because the man's dead anyway so there's no real point staying angry and understanding the history that may have led him to become the monster she knew, but that doesn't mean she has to LIKE him or ever consider him a father.

I think you could kind-of throw Ahsoka and Obi-Wan in there as different reactions to Anakin, too. With Ahsoka as someone who sort-of clings to who Anakin used to be and can't truly reconcile the two versions of him that she knew, and Obi-Wan as someone who rises above. Unlike Leia, he did know and love Anakin, but he is also able to let go of his anger and betrayal and accept Anakin for what he is now rather than pining for someone who no longer exists. And Ahsoka is the opposite of Luke as someone who also knew Anakin and loved him, but struggles a lot MORE with the revelation of who he was and his impact on her life. Everyone approaches Anakin and his relationship to them and his choices in a different way.

I wish the Ahsoka show wanted to explore any of that at all lol.

#star wars #ahsoka tano #ahsoka show #ahsoka series #sw ahsoka #star wars ahsoka #ahsoka 2023 #ahsoka spoilers #anti anakin #anti anakin skywalker #anakin critical #anakin skywalker critical

[bbygirl-obi]

Hello, I just wanted to say I appreciate your detailed and thoughtful response to my reply. I do think I accidentally fell into an ongoing discourse I'm not really familiar with so I'm taking responsibility for that miscommunication/misunderstanding on my part. I in no way ever meant to imply, nor do I believe, that the genocide on the Jedi is anything other than a tragedy. Even if people have faults that never justifies violence. I'm very sorry that was not clear. I don't identify as an anti and I am chill with the Jedi. Lots of things you wrote about are reasons I like the Jedi and SW in general.

Since it seems I've caused harm I don't really see value in me trying to "defend" where I was coming from but I might be wrong, I'm not sure. The interpersonal relationship section of DBT has always been the hardest for me to grasp and I think that's really showing right now. So, sincere apologies again for my miscommunication.

(This ask is in reference to this post)

Hi, thank you so much for reaching out! I was a bit heated when writing that response, so kudos to you for not getting defensive and for hearing me out. I do really appreciate it. I'd love to help you understand a bit more why this hit me so hard, especially since this was unintentional on your part. There are three things that I think are important to understand here. I'll talk about them below.

1. There's kind of always been a worrying amount of racism, sexism, and anti-Semitism that's baked into big parts of the Star Wars fandom. It's unfortunate, but it's there. Many of the women and/or PoC characters/actors have experienced awful slews of online hate throughout the course of the franchise, specifically for being women and/or PoC. Ahsoka, Reva, Rey, Finn, Rose... the list goes on and on. There are also communities of fascists or incels who use the Empire as inspiration porn. These groups do not make up the entirety of this fandom, but they are a very loud part of it. AND their influence extends beyond their circles into the rest of the fandom, in the form of things that other people with privilege do not always register as bigotry.

2. Star Wars is unfortunately one of those fandoms where a lot of the discourse tends to step on the toes of real-life cultures. As I mentioned, the Jedi are based heavily off of Buddhist culture (George Lucas has been very explicit about this), and the targeted genocide is very similar to the real world's Holocaust. The rise of the Empire is pretty directly based off of the rise of Nazi Germany, to the point of the Empire's aesthetic being based off of the Nazis and Palpatine's rise to power directly paralleling Hitler's. Because the real-life connections are both significant and explicit, Star Wars intersects with the real world a lot more than other fictional or sci fi franchises do. There's a greater burden on members of fandom to investigate things before speaking on them as a result.

3. There are a lot of fandom misconceptions about the Jedi, including that they stole children, that they erased cultures, and that they were emotional, unfeeling people with no relationships. There are also a lot of sentiments that the Jedi were at fault for, or deserved, what happened to them (either because it was "balance" or because they created the man who genocided them). Some people arrive at these conclusions because of the racism mentioned in #1 intersecting with the non-white cultural influences mentioned in #2. Some people arrive at these conclusions because they see it elsewhere in fandom (from group #1), and don't recognize the dogwhistles because they aren't familiar with the cultures being trodden upon.

So when someone says the kinds of things you said in your post:

Jedi children are "stolen from their homes and raised devoid of their culture and families"

All Jedi initiation "traumatizes their subjects"

"Attachments are human relationships and…are integral to mental health"

All Jedi "have absolutely nowhere to turn to for comfort"

"The Jedi order is more akin to a cult"

The Jedi "sterilize" and "manipulate" DBT and force their practices upon their members as "the one true way to live"

The Jedi are "about eradicating big emotions"

Their "goal [is] indoctrinating the children they stole"

"Anakin is the direct product of their failure"

Sure, the first thing that jumps out is the misinformation. But since almost everything you're critiquing about the Jedi is something that also exists in Buddhism, you are simultaneously deriding Buddhism as something that is detrimental to mental health, that provides no support network to anyone, that is sterile and emotionless, and that is a form of indoctrination.

The paternalistic idea that Buddhists were victims of backwards, harmful cults, and needed to be "saved" from their own culture by white people, is both old and insidious. These are things that have been said about Buddhism with the intention of painting it as stupid and even harmful, so that white people could justify oppressing both Buddhism as a religion and the PoC cultures who originated and practiced it. This is still used today as a justifier for modern-day forms of racism, but it's also been used for centuries as a justification for the colonization of entire countries.

I've discussed the genocide aspect in my other post, but I'll just reiterate that the sentiment "the Jedi are not to blame for their genocide" cannot coexist with the sentiment "Anakin, the perpetrator of said genocide, is the direct product of the Jedi." The idea from your tags that the Jedi "killed" Anakin is also a tricky one, since the idea that Anakin's death was Vader's creation is a popular fandom trope turned canon with the "you didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, I did" line in the Obi-Wan Kenobi series, and to say the Jedi killed Anakin is therefore to say the Jedi created Vader, their genocider.

I guess part of me also wonders why, even if it is true (I think it isn't, but people can and do disagree), it's relevant to bring up under the type of post I made. Take the example of a school shooting. People have died, children have died, a member of their community has betrayed them, and the community is hurt and grieving. Let's say someone makes a post celebrating the community, celebrating how kind and supportive they are to one another. And let's say someone decides to comment below that post saying that the other kids in the school were mean to the shooter. Even if it were true, I hope this example helps illustrate how (1) it comes across as excusing the shooter's actions, and how (2) that sentiment is just so incredibly tone-deaf and victim-blamey. That's kind of how it feels to have someone comment these misinformed things (of racist origin, even if they are not of conscious racist intent) below a post that I made celebrating the practices of a culture that was genocided. It's neither the time nor the place.

And remember what I said in point #3, about how people arrive at these conclusions one of two ways? When I read stuff like this, it's really hard to tell which of the two groups a person falls into. It's hard to tell if the coded racism is simply going unnoticed, or if it's there intentionally. But it's there, regardless. And in my experience, the hidden or unintentional racism can be the most dangerous, because people will often get defensive and gaslight the hell out of you when you try to call it out. Thanks for not doing that, but you're unfortunately the minority.

So when people say these things, I usually have to assume that they are not a safe person. Because like I said: Whether or not the racism was deliberate, it was still there. You might have not originated these ideas, but you were willing to accept them without investigating further, to adopt them as your own, and to spread them further online. I think there's something to unpack there for you. Some great next steps would include doing research into the following topics:

The nuclear family and how it ties to white supremacy and homophobia (this gives context for the institutional aversion to the Jedi's form of community; you can find an article by a Black man about this here)

The American Jewish Committee's resources on identifying subtle or hidden forms of anti-Semitism (this gives context to how seemingly innocuous statements can have very problematic histories; you can find it here)

The phenomenon of "Holocaust Distortion" (a real-life example of how harmful it is to distort facts to place greater blame on the victims of genocide; you can find an article from the Holocaust Remembrance Alliance about it here)

The history of Buddhist groups suffering religious persecution (this gives context for ways in which the religion has been deliberately misrepresented for the purpose of harming Buddhists; Wikipedia is a great place to start, here's an introductory link)

The colonization and oppression of countries with large Buddhist populations (this gives context for the global racism I mentioned; look into the countries of Japan, Cambodia, China, India, Vietnam, etc.)

Though there can also be room for excitement, not just depressing homework, because it seems there's a lot of great stuff about the Jedi (and Buddhism) that you didn't know about, and now you get to learn all about it!

#like this is good news i guess because the things you were mad at the jedi for doing aren't things they actually did? #but also... the fact that these are word-for-word irl racist ideas should be more obvious to you & if it isn't it's a sign you need to lear #i appreciate the willingness to learn and i do appreciate the apology! #ask #asks #answered #jedi #jedi order #jedi council #jedi culture #pro jedi #jedi appreciation #in defense of the jedi #anakin skywalker #anakin #order 66 #tw genocide #tw holocaust #tw hitler #genocide #holocaust #hitler

[jedi-enthusiast]

Did you ever see that trailer for that SWTOR expansion Legacy of the Sith? It was one of the most anti-Jedi things I have ever seen in my life and painted them as being no better than then Sith, and that made me so mad!

No, I haven't seen it and---at this point---I'm going with the "canon is what I decide, fuck you Disney" way of consuming any new Star Wars media.

George Lucas created Star Wars and the Jedi, and he was very fucking clear that the Jedi were the good guys---so I know that, above all else, I'm right when I say that the Jedi were good. I know that, whatever anyone else says, the Jedi were moral and good and they were doing their best in a shitty situation where they just could not win.

Which means that all of the other stuff that's coming out where people are leaning into the edgy "everyone's actually evil, and there's no good in the world, and good guys can never actually be good because who would actually ever be selfless and kind????" narrative that's, for some reason, gotten so popular nowadays---I'm either ignoring it or taking it with copious amounts of salt.

That Legacy of the Sith expansion? Ignoring it.

Acolyte? I might just watch it so I can hate on it, but honestly I'll probably just ignore it.

The Ahsoka show? I'll watch it, but my expectations are very low.

Etc. Etc.

People can say whatever they want about my doing this, but honestly---thanks to Disney handing over a vast amount of creative control to people who don't actually give a fuck about Star Wars and people like Filoni, who's now just pulling shit out of his ass to lift up his OCs--- with the newer stories and timelines and shit, you almost have to make up your own reasons for why things are happening/why certain characters are doing/saying things.

Take Bo-Katan for example and how the writers are portraying her in the Mandalorian.

----------

They're completely ignoring the fact that she was a member of Death Watch (a violent terrorist organization), that she had a hand in her sister's death (since she did help Maul alongside Visla, even though she was vocal about not wanting to/thinking it was a bad idea), or that she even fucking had a sister.

So now, since all of that is happening, you have to figure out for yourself why, in-universe, Bo-Katan is ignoring all of that---and that's obviously going to be colored by whether you like her or not.

Is she ignoring that she was a member of Death Watch because she thinks it doesn't matter/wasn't a big deal/wasn't bad? Or is she doing it because she can't face the guilt she feels over having been apart of it?

Is she ignoring that she had a hand in her sister's death because she doesn't really think she was responsible, since she vocally didn't support helping Maul? Or, again, is it out of guilt?

Is she not mentioning Satine because she wants to erase the fact that Mandalore was successfully peaceful for decades under Satine's rule until she [Bo-Katan] fucked it up and basically kicked off the whole "Mandalore basically dying/hanging on by a thread" thing, so she doesn't want anyone to know that? Or is it because she's still filled with so much grief and guilt that mentioning Satine is literally painful for her?

You have to make those assumptions and those decisions, because the writers just don't give a fuck anymore.

----------

So, with that in mind, everything that George Lucas didn't have a hand in, especially regarding the Jedi? I'm taking it as a suggestion, and a suggestion only.

#star wars #sw prequels #the clone wars #the mandalorian #george lucas #bo katan kryze #satine kryze #darth maul #pro jedi #pro jedi order #in defense of the jedi

[intermundia]

Hello! I just recently joined the Star Wars fandom and I adore your writing and cannot thank you enough for creating and sharing such lovely worlds with us! As someone who just recently watched the prequels, I wanted to ask your opinion on something. The clones were essentially slaves, created to serve as disposable soldiers, with no autonomy, and, to make it worse than that, were CHILD soldiers with shortened life spans. How did the Jedi and the Republic justify feeding them through the meat grinder of war? I feel like there isn’t much discussion on the ethical implications of this in canon (unless I’m missing it!). For the Jedi and Republic to use child slaves as canon fodder really makes me question how just their claim of moral superiority was. Just wanted to hear your thoughts!

This is a difficult question, and I have a few thoughts!

The issue of the moral value of the use of clones is considered at length several times in the Clone Wars tv show, if you have only seen the prequels, I think you will enjoy and get value from the tv show. I think that there simply isn’t time inside the three prequel movies that are dedicated to telling the story of how Anakin fell to simultaneously focus on the plight of the clones at the same time. You can see that Obi-Wan is disturbed by them when he arrives and we are shown that the Council did not know about them or order them. The issue is perhaps with their use, how instead of refusing on principle to use the troopers (who the Republic military would use with or without the Jedi’s permission), Yoda brought them to save the lives of the handful of Jedi out of the hundreds that went to save Obi-Wan on Geonosis. If he hadn’t, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padmé, Mace Windu, etc. would all be dead, and the story would be over. In a choice between using troopers grown for war, betraying your ideals about an ethical military, or losing your friends and family, betraying your ideals of saving and protecting the galaxy at large, what would you do?

The Republic is run by the Sith and has been for decades. Every time you see the word “Republic” replace it with “Proto-Empire” and it becomes easier to understand why they would have an army of clones. The Republic and the Senate as a governmental structure has no moral authority whatsoever. It was corrupted long before the war by the presence of non-state actors like the commerce guilds and the trade federation seizing the machine of government and using it to enrich themselves. Senators like Padmé and Bail are exceptions to the rule, and their courage is in short supply. The majority of the senate was presented with an easy answer to a difficult question (“how do we stop a flood of murderous machines led by a rival government from sweeping from planet to planet, killing civilians and conquering their governments?”). The clones are the easy answer because they require nobody to make sacrifices.

George Lucas is making a commentary about how expendable we (usamericans at least) consider our soldiers to be, how dehumanized they are, how we are content letting them die and suffer while we laugh and shop and keep living a normal life. Many soldiers at least in the US are barely 18, coerced by financial incentives into joining the military, and without those incentives would never choose to put themselves in a situation where they need to participate in the war machine. Grinding poverty and lack of opportunity funnels many young people into the military in real life, so they are not as free in their choice as it might seem.

If you watch the very first episode of the Clone Wars tv show with Yoda and the clones, it is very clear that he treats them unique individual people, worthy of dignity and respect, and tries to save their lives, valuing them higher than they did themselves. The clones would be under their command, or under the command of people who cared much less about their value. Jedi like Krell who use the clones as canon fodder are the exception that prove the rule, the Jedi are there to save as many lives as they can while fulfilling the objectives given to them by the Senate and the Chancellor. They are morally compromised by being a part of the war, but the alternative is to walk away and refuse to use their skills and effort to protect people. That’s not a choice they are willing to make.

It’s really important to remember the genre of the films, and to listen to what they show and tell about who is moral within the framework of the story. In his space adventure storytelling movies, Lucas has said explicitly that the Jedi are the moral authority for the galaxy, they are the good guys. He is showing How the Jedi fell, despite consistently trying their best to protect people and sacrifice themselves in service of civilization. It's just important to note that How they fell is not an explanation of Why their fall was morally justified and valid. The fact that they have been trapped into a no-win scenario by their adversaries that forces them to make a choice between two non-optimal choices, is not their fault. In order for the story of Anakin’s fall to happen, narratively there has to be a war. They are doomed to fight that war and die, all of them, by the opening of A New Hope. If you think of them as being morally compromised by fighting alongside the clones, then you can feel grief at the consequences of being morally compromised despite their commitment to the good. It’s just important to not say that this choice to fight made them “deserve” being exterminated like many do on here.

#ok i need coffee #this topic has been discussed a lot #yeah the clones are a fucked up concept!!! it is largely the point #the jedi were fighting an unethical fake war designed by the sith #they had no good options #many of them left! many refused #at least in legends etc #we just see the ones who made the internal calculus that saving people was more important. have you ever been forced to choose btn values #it's shitty #sw

[spaceocean9]

Hi! You commented in a post that you don't agree with Jedi being analogous to Jews, and that it creates strange and offensive implications. If you feel like it, could you explain this further? (Or if there already exists posts or other sources about this maybe refer me to them?)

Hello!

Sure, I would be glad to explain this further.

A- When we are talking about Jews, I believe we are talking about ethnic Jewish people. Which leads me to my first issue. The jedi are not an ethnic group. They are an order, filled with different species and races. When we start talking about how the Jewish people were persecuted, especially in the 1930s and beyond, you can not separate the ethnic element of that persecution. Jewish people were rounded up based on name, hair color, and facial features. Yes, they were also persecuted based on faith but these blogs who talk about the jedi being analogous to the Jewish people aren't talking about that. They are clearly referring to nazi Germany and its crimes.

B- The jedi are textually a part of their own downfall. The prequels showed the jedi as a flawed institution, and any future addition in the franchise reinforces that. The sequels absolutely do this( I hate them), and so do the clone wars.

There are people who debate about the validity of filonis clone wars,even though it is clearly seen as legitimite by the culture at large. But one thing you can't forget that George Lucas worked right beside him. He approved it all, and in that series there are multiple instances of the jedi order making huge mistakes based on arrogance , pride and fear. Mistakes that will push them deeper into the snake nest that is the republic. There are even characters who are framed as good, saying that the jedi are wrong about this or that. Not only that, characters like Ahsoka and Ezra are taught differently from their jedi contemplates and they are shown to be stronger for it. LUKE SKYWALKER only saved his father and by consequence the galaxy by doing what two jedi told him not to do. By somewhat rejecting their philosophy. I'm saying all this because if you shift this to a real world people, with real world beliefs...it's kinda fucked up. The Jewish people did not have any part in the holocaust. Even before Hitler, Germany primed its citizens to blame and hate the Jewish people with movies, various media and toxic talking heads. There was no physical mistake they made. Also having multiple heroes reject chunks of the jedi code, which in this case would be the Jewish religion and they are better for it is.. a lot.

3. The jedi owned a slave army....enough said.

I just think we should be careful with our allegories is all. I don't like bright and its analogy of orcs being black people. I don't like Avatar, where the Navi are heavily based on indigenous Americans and their fight for land autonomy against a government who wants to use their resources and displace them. Because that movie is also a white savior movie. I just think that if you truly want to tell these stories about ethnic struggles, tell them with the actual people who face them. It keeps you way more accountable.

George Lucas depicted facism with the empire, but thats a evil political movement. Which is way more flexible in terms of analogy.

I might be wrong about all of this, but its what I think for now. Thank you for this question.

#jedi critical

[swtorpadawan]

ZEP!

fandom meme Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go (prompts optional but encouraged) Specific to SWTOR in particular and Star Wars in general, I think something that contributes to the divisions in the fandom is the sheer number of writers and creators who've contributed to building this fandom for the past 45 years. The moment George Lucas licensed other people to create in his universe, he opened this floodgate. And that's fine - as far as I'm concerned, he's forfeited his right to say what is and is not "Star Wars", long before he sold the whole thing to Disney. Don't get me wrong - there was a lot to love in the EU. But there was a lot that wasn't very good. There were sooooooo many "conflicting canon" issues… and at one point the primary focus of the writers seemed to be an obsession over who Jaina Solo's boyfriend should be. (I'm fine with it going to Jag. But given that Jaina was rather young at the time this was going on, it shouldn't have been such a deal with the writers.) I don't hate Disney Canon. I don't. I just wish they'd taken the opportunity to tell a more consistent story. The modern the result is, we now see people who can ignore 98 percent of the content of Star Wars and point to one incident that one writer wrote in one book and say "See? The Jedi are just as bad as the Sith!" That's… skewed. I understand the projection. But it throws me sometimes.

E - Have you added anything cracky/hilarious to your fandom, if so, what Rex (From TCW/Rebels) is in my Halcyon Legacy in SWTOR. He's nominally retired as a soldier, and is the bartender at the Alliance cantina on Odessen.

I dunno… I thought it was funny.

P - Invent a random AU for any fandom (we always need more ideas)

I'm the worst at this. I've seen some "detective Noir" AUs, some medeival fantasy AUs, some steampunk…

I guess Star Wars during the fall of the Bronze Age? That might be a niche interest.

Thanks for the asks!

#swtorpadawan asks #fandom meme #plotbunny-bundle

[go-see-a-starwar]

I posted 840 times in 2022

That's 840 more posts than 2021!

67 posts created (8%)

773 posts reblogged (92%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@gffa

@that-gay-jedi

@hayden-christensen

@coldwaughtered

@himboskywalker

I tagged 840 of my posts in 2022

#hayden christensen - 435 posts

#anakin skywalker - 422 posts

#obi wan kenobi - 230 posts

#fanart - 166 posts

#rots - 159 posts

#ewan mcgregor - 143 posts

#kenobi series - 134 posts

#aotc - 75 posts

#fave - 67 posts

#padme amidala - 63 posts

Longest Tag: 139 characters

#his gently downward sloped eyes and close-lipped smile i need to be muzzled and packed neatly into a barrel then launched off niagara falls

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

How it started:

How it’s going:

1,339 notes - Posted October 29, 2022

#4

Before meeting her again on Coruscant, Anakin finds a sketch he made of Padme

From Anakin: Apprentice [by Marc Cerasini and illustrated by Tommy Lee Edwards]

1,563 notes - Posted August 31, 2022

#3

I don’t know if it can be properly conveyed how much shit was thrown Hayden’s way when his prequel movies came out. Just a metric fuckton of crap. After AOTC (and only in his very early 20s) he was swiftly made the Star Wars pariah, and ROTS did little to assuage that. A lot of the dissatisfaction with the prequels somehow fell on him, both his turns as Anakin got Razzie “Awards”, his name became synonymous with bad, wooden acting.

Over the years the opinion of his performance shifted to Hayden being an unfortunate victim of George Lucas' writing and directing, saddled with lines no actor could make work. But even that opinion still largely discounted Hayden's acting ability.

For him to come back after 17 years to the role he got so much flack for, have his big scene show not even half of his face (and have that face caked in makeup and prosthetic), have his voice distorted, and still deliver the way he did? Still convey all the rage and evil and arrogance but also pain and sadness within Vader? Show everyone this is why he landed the role two decades ago, because he can be frightening and vulnerable and devastating even with just one eye and the corner of his mouth visible? Show everyone he is Anakin/Vader, and make everyone consider he was good all along? Incredible, amazing, the chosen one indeed. Thanks Deborah Chow and Ewan for making this show, thank you Hayden for coming back.

3,416 notes - Posted June 22, 2022

#2

My dudes what exactly do you think is being acknowledged in these scenes?

See the full post

3,560 notes - Posted September 22, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

Finding out they gave Hayden full luxurious ROTS Anakin hair and then proceeded to not show a single frame of it in Kenobi.

See the full post

5,026 notes - Posted August 22, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#tumblr2022 #year in review #my 2022 tumblr year in review #long post #that tag wasn’t even mine it was a prev tag #thanks for indulging me and my hayden hyperfixation #I’m probably gonna be worse next year XD #hayden christensen #anakin skywalker #2022

[redrascal1]

Okay...talking about characters assassinations in TROS.....am I the only one who thought Luke's little speech to Rey about 'some things being more important than blood'......kind of obscene?

The Skywalker saga was all about the ties of blood. In ANH we had Luke telling Ben he 'wanted to be a Jedi like his father'. In ESB his determination to confront Vader was because he believed he had killed his 'real' father. In ROTJ he refused to kill him...because he WAS his real father.

The PT also made a point about blood ties, with Anakin's undying love for his mother plus the films ending with a lingering shot of Baby Luke.

The more I think of it, the more TROS comes across as Abrams, Terrio and DLF telling George Lucas; 'we want your franchise, we want the SW universe....but we DON'T want your characters, or your message of blood is thicker than water, thank you. Now get lost.'

But why? If that was all they wanted why not make new films, new series, all set centuries after the Skywalker Saga, that had nothing to do with them? Why kill all of them off? Is it because they thought SW fandom ....didn't want SW with Lucas's characters?

Because that is what it looks like to me. They brought back the OT cast and created Kylo Ren so people would become 'interested again'.....then decided to get rid of them so we would accept their substitutes Woke 1, 2 and 3. Except.....Woke 1, 2 and 3....aren't very interesting. Rian Johnson showed us that they could be. Abrams and Terrio decided to undo all that to push the Lady of Perfection, Rey Fakewalker. And ended up making their new characters dull as dishwater in the process.

I suspect they now realise their mistake, hence the strong presence of the Skywalkers - Luke, Leia and Anakin - in the Obi Wan series, plus Luke's cameo in Mando. Unfortunately they are now trying to 'change' Luke's personality and beliefs through Mando and Shadow of the Sith to make him more like their 'version' of him, TROS Luke. And it ....is obscene.

And all of this to once again, push Rey, Rey, REY. Their fawning adoration of their horrible little Mary Sue Palpatine is going to poison everything this company do post TROS. I don't know if they will ever make new films about her, or a tv series....but frankly if I was Daisy Ridley, I would steer away from them. They have destroyed Rey. There is just about nothing they can do to save her now...and the worse thing is, they won't even try because they think what they've done with her is actually.....a good thing.

[mindctrlaltdel]

Random Reviews: Star Wars

For Throwback Thursday, why don’t we take a stroll down this blog’s memory lane... Back in 2015, I thought it would be funny if I did something a little extravagant.

At the time, it seemed like everybody and their brother had a YouTube channel where they dissected every tiny detail of beloved blockbuster films (nowadays everybody and their brother AND their mother are in on the whole "videoing themselves watching movies for the first time and 'hot-taking' the night away"). So, I figured, "Hey! The original STAR WARS has 121 minutes in it. Why don't I just review a minute a day during the 121 days before THE FORCE AWAKENS debuts?" Well... I did it. (And I even made another attempt, reviewing each minute of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK before the release of THE LAST JEDI).

Anyway, I'd love to direct your attention to my blog, for that whole 121 DAYS OF STAR WARS affair: mindctrlaltdel.tumblr.com/121DaysofStarWars

But since you're already here, below is the first entry, reviewing minute #1 of STAR WARS: EPISODE IV: A NEW HOPE...

Join me and together we’ll watch Star Wars.

The Force Awakens debuts in 121 days, so begins my 121 day viewing of the original Star Wars. One minute for every day.

You can do it too. All you have to do is press play…

God said, “let there be light,” and 3,722 years later, 20th Century Fox said the same thing.

The year is 1977. The New York City blackout terrorizes the Big Apple, Elvis Presley dies on the toilet, and Jimmy Carter becomes the first peanut to be elected president. These are heady times, but they soon get headier with the release of a little movie that takes the entire system by storm. And that film is called Smokey and the Bandit. Which doesn’t do as well as Star Wars.

George Lucas originally wanted to do an updated adaptation of the Flash Gordon serials he grew up watching - the kind of pre-film teasers that kept the kids’ attention in post-WW2 cinemas. These celluloid treats were chock full of moments like this:

When the rights were too much, Lucas and producer Gary Kurtz opted to create their own sci-fi adventure story, and after several years and a couple of wildly different drafts of screenplays, we ended up with the movie we know and love.

Ironically, a Flash Gordon movie was made soon after to capitalize on Star Wars-fever. And it was… you know, ahead of its time…

Lucas maintains that his story has always stayed on track with his original intentions, that he wrote the whole thing as we saw it on screen and just took the middle and made that the first set of films - but I’m more impressed by the truth. That the Star Wars mythology was created entirely on-the-fly. Lines meant to just color in some character backstories, like Han owing debts to a gangster named Jabba the Hutt, lead to huge set pieces (re: Jabba’s pleasure skiff) in future movies. In May of 1977, Darth Vader being Luke’s father was just a glimmer in Uncle George’s eye and Luke didn’t even have a sister. I mean, maybe one day he did, and another day he didn’t - Lucas was changing his mind so much before, during, and after these movies, that who knows. In the 2017 re-release of Empire Strikes Back, Vader will probably yell “NOOOO!” after Luke jumps off the balcony and dive after his son, Point Break style.

Anyway, nobody expected it to be a hit, it was made on a blip of a budget, and it all started with an idea for a one-off space fantasy that Fox took a risk on.

Darkness. Then…

After a blank screen, we see the old 20th Century Fox logo - which ran from 1953 to 1981. If you think that “0″ looks crooked, you’re right. It’s because this logo is meant to be viewed from a spaceship or with Wookiee eyes because they’re tall and would’ve been watching this movie from a treetop. The “0″ reminds me of Bugs Bunny for some reason, as if Warner Bros. from decades past thought this was a funny way to paint a number, but it’s actually painted this way way because of the widescreen format employed in theaters at this time (thanks, Hollywood Reporter). Back in the seventies, this was just a normal number looking for a good time - only in retrospect do we see that this “20th” had a Blues Brothers-era coke problem.

This classic feel doesn’t have the modern, sweeping grandeur that today’s logo can afford - with more CGI spotlights aimed at it than Nakatomi Plaza - but it gets the job done. The trumpeting fanfare matches John Williams’ score too. I want to give it an A for nostalgia, but geez, that crooked number knocks it down to a B+.

Then Lucasfilm comes in. It contrasts the 20th Century Fox logo in it’s simplicity, and does it’s job. In a way, it foreshadows the rest of the movie - everything here serves a purpose - only the necessary dialogue, actions and effects are kept in. Later Lucasfilm logos get more visually creative, with drops of light brightening up the Lucasfilm name in a classic, old-timey font.

You may soon notice that this film has no opening credits. It’s a move that goes a long way to make it all feel less like a movie and more like an experience. With his name in the logo, this was how George Lucas avoided penalties from the Director’s Guild - they require opening credits. (He paid for it later when director Irvin Kershner’s name didn’t appear until the end credits of Empire Strikes Back. Rumor has it, this DGA rule is what kept Spielberg from directing Return of the Jedi - which I like to imagine might have been more like Raiders and less like Willow had he directed it, but that’s just a fan’s Force dream). The Lucasfilm logo is less grandiose than future tags. It’s effective, if not creative, so it gets a B+ too.

Things are getting mystical. This isn’t what we expected! What about the trailer - it had all these spaceships and lasers and running people!? Are we about to see space horses?

Now we don’t exactly know what we’re in for. Good move, young Lucas. In older drafts, this opening quote referenced something called “The Journal of the Whills,” which was like an ancient text. Back then, the story was more biblical and the opening addressed a hero who was prophesied to be “the son of suns.” Lucas held onto the nugget of that idea by having Luke be an orphaned boy raised on a planet orbiting twin suns, but by 1975, he dropped the biblical themes and focused mainly on situations and characters inspired by his childhood influences. This was all filtered through Joseph Campbell’s “The Hero with a Thousand Faces,” which focuses on the evolution of story through the classic hero’s journey. At this time, the opening was changed to “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, an amazing adventure took place.” After several more versions of cuts, it reached the more effective opening we know, but it’s interesting to see Star Wars as something that was constantly evolving until (and decades after) it was released. I give this an A+ for setting the mood and for no-bullshit deftness.

And, for the first time, we’re plunged into the Star Wars universe. If I saw this with virgin eyes, hearing the orchestral flourish lead into a score that throws away modern standards and uses leitmotifs the way Clint Eastwood uses bullets, I would be drawn in. I’m on this film’s side from the start. And there’s no time for the cynic to really scoff at the film yet. Everyone’s on the same page here. We’re in space, there are words flying at us, we get it. Although, I’d hate to be taking a joyride through Tatooine’s upper atmosphere and get blindsided by a flying “War.” That’s what I imagine “Grammar Police brutality” to look like.

The main title disappears into deep space and a backstory scrolls past. That subtitle - Episode IV: A New Hope - wasn’t added until the re-release of this film after Empire Strikes Back came out in 1980. By then, the powers-that-be developed this single sci-fi adventure into a serialized saga, inspired by - you know - Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, etc. But here it’s just a single story.  “It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. During the battle, rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire’s–” It’s a lot shorter when you type it out and the text isn’t on a space-escalator to heaven. We can thank Brian De Palma for that. The filmmaker supposedly helped out his friend Lucas on editing this opening crawl down to a manageable three paragraph dissertation on the evils of the Empire.

Hold it. That’s it. One minute. They manage to cram a lot of info into a single minute, even if all we’re getting is space and words.

But what do we know? There’s a civil war, there are rebels who are in hiding, but they’ve won a battle and stolen secret plans to something very important to the Empire. I don’t know what that thing is, but I’m intrigued. Are you?

Stay tuned to find out. Tomorrow. As we watch the next minute of the continuing adventures of SPACE WORDS! Will they live? Will they disappear? Will they keep scrolling for infinity? Where do space words go to die? I don’t know, but now I really want to pitch SPACE WORDS, it’s Dune meets Chicka Chicka Boom Boom.

#Reviews #Movie Reviews #Random Reviews #TBT #Throwback Thursday #Throwbackthursday #Star Wars #A New Hope #121 Days of Star Wars #George Lucas #Luke Skywalker #Princess Leia #han solo #darth vader #Harrison Ford #Mark Hamill #Carrie Fisher #r2d2 #r2-d2 #C-3P0 #Space Opera

[dereknochefranca]

🚀 I’M GOING TO SPACE 🚀 THANK YOU TO ALL WHO VOTED! I couldn’t have achieved this without your love and support! 🫶🏽🥳🚀😭🤖 If you know anything about me, Star Wars was my first fandom since birth and Zack Snyder is one of my all time favorite artists who continues to inspire me. Zack’s love for Akira Kurosawa/Star Wars once led him to pitch a Seven Samurai/Jedi centric script to Lucasfilm (post Prequels and pre Disney sale) - since then, he’s reworked and evolved the script into his own original sci-fi film now known as @netflix ‘s #RebelMoon . An exciting parallel considering George Lucas’ rejection as a Flash Gordon director is what led him to create his own Galaxy Far Far Away…. As a fan- I’m naturally thrilled. But to have this opportunity is unexpected, humbling, and an honor. Thank you @netflix @justin.raleigh @fracturedfxinc and #TheStoneQuarry team - especially Zack and Deborah Snyder! THANK YOU TO YOU ALL! I’ll try smuggle you some space dirt! 🤪🫶🏽🚀 #rebelmoonnetflix #zacksnyder #zacktivated https://www.instagram.com/p/CjokuJOpxLg/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=

#rebelmoon #thestonequarry #rebelmoonnetflix #zacksnyder #zacktivated

[writerbuddha]

Regarding the pursuit of personal feelings and attachment: Padawan Dooku was reprimanded for maintaining contact with his younger sister, but seemingly given a by in his returning to and saving Serenno as a Master. Anakin was cautioned against pursuing his personal feelings as a Padawan, but was usually advised to take care with them as a Knight. Is the dogma simply stressed during one's formative years as a means of keeping them on the straight and narrow to then expand out from as a Knight?

Hello! First and foremost, thank you for the question - I must admit, I know little to nothing about Dooku's years as a Padawan, and his family, my interest, and thus my knowledge rarely expands beyond George Lucas' canon, the six movies and the clone wars series. But I think I still can answer your question.

I'll try to be as concise as possible.

Jedi philosophy, portrayed by George Lucas, has no dogmas - the teachings on attachment and personal feelings are aiming to develop a mindset, through which a Jedi can relate to the world around them in a way that they won't be turning to the dark side, which is greed, driven by the fear of loss, and out of that, comes anger, hate, aggression, bitterness. They're not principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true, it has nothing to do with faith or accepting a supernatural authority.

A Jedi is not supposed to form attachment, they're supposed to love people unconditionally, which is compassion. Attachment is the self-interested love for a person or a thing, and it's basically to say, "this person/thing brings me so much enjoyment, makes me happy, so I want to be with it/them and I don't want to be without it/them". The problem is that everything - all things and beings - are impermanent, transient, everchaning. So attachment is an unrealistic, unreasonable desire: the only thing that remains constant is change, so longing for things and beings to stay with us forever and keep us happy, not to change, to remain the way they are, is unrealistic, unreasonable, and it will bring the fear of loss, the pain of loss, and misery. And the fear of loss is the path to the dark side, to anger, hate and aggression.

Compassion is, on the other hand, is unconditional love, it's to say, "your joy is my joy, your sorrow is my sorrow, I want you to be happy, and I want you to be free from suffering." It has no self-referential considerations, it's not about what you have or don't have, so there is no pain of loss, no fear of loss, and no anger, no hate, no aggression. When you're compassionate, you have genuine concern for others, including your loved ones, but attachment makes you afraid for yourself, because it's about you're afraid to be without them.

It's important to realize, both attachment and compassion are creating a sense of togetherness, that is the core of love, but they're far from the same: attachment, like I elaborated above, is more like being duct taped to someone by your own need for what that person can offer to you, whereas real love is a deeper, stronger sense of unity with someone. In our real-world daily life, for example, attachment makes you cry when your kid moves out and going to university, because you don't want to be separated from the joy of being with them, but compassion is what make you able to let them go and start their life, and it's compassion that will eventually make you stop crying. Close, warm hearted, compassionate feelings, love for your loved ones can make you happy, even when you're not physically with your loved ones. A Jedi must learn how to be happy with holding their loved ones in and with their hearts, not in their hands. That's how they can make peace with loss, death and change.

Based on what I know about Dooku: Jedi Lost (I guess that's the source you're referring to) the problem wasn't Dooku keeping in touch with his sister, but the fact that he kept it in secret, and for the Jedi, it looked like he is unable to be without her, and a Jedi mustn't be influenced by their personal feelings, they must do the right thing. As George Lucas himself said, Anakin failed to do the right thing because of his attachment, his desire to hold onto Padmé. He was willing to abandon his mission to capture Dooku in Attack of the Clones, so he was okay with letting him escape, and not to end the war before more people die in it, just to make sure Padmé's okay.

But it's also important to understand, attachment and compassion, for a limited time, will manifest the same good deeds that will be beneficial for a large number of people. in Clone Wars, Anakin was afraid to lose Padmé in the Blue Shadow Virus arc, so he wanted desperately to save her, and by doing so, he also saved the whole planet of Naboo. This is a good example for how attachment can stay relatively harmless if the situation will not require one to choose between the right thing to do and the object of attachment, as it happened in Revenge of the Sith. I have no information about the Dooku saving Serenno story, but in that situation, him being a Jedi actually required him to save the planet. However, if saving it would have mean that he abandons a mission to save six planets to which he has no personal relations, that's a problem. In Brain Invaders, you can see this illustrated by Ahsoka and Barriss: you must strive to find a way to save everyone - you're not required to leave your friends and family in a burning building - but you must not be influenced by your fear of not being with someone who you love. The same with personal feelings. There is a huge difference between listening to your inner feelings, and listening to your personal feelings. Inner feelings are the "little voice inside you," personal feelings, based on what you want, based on how you value people based on how they make you feel - your personal likes or dislikes. You love them if they bring you happiness, and you may want them to be happy, but if they don't, you don't love them, you're either neutral or you want them to be miserable. A Jedi should not be guided by those feelings.

So, I can't see any contradictions here.

#jedi order #jedi culture #jedi code #jedi morals #dooku jedi lost #star wars #george lucas #love without attachment #attachment #anon ask

[padawanlost]

I have a couple of questions about Karen Miller/Traviss (are they the same person?) who wrote the Clone Wars novels. Are they still considered canon? Also, I heard that Karen Traviss was abused online or something, was that over her Star Wars novels? Really, I mean that just takes toxicity to a new level.

This is a hot topic but one that desperately needs to be explored because to this day people are still spreading misinformation about that happen as a way to ‘defend’ their points. So, here we go:

Karen Miller and Karen Traviss are not the same person.

Karen miller wrote novels like  The Clone Wars: Wild Space and the Clone Wars Gambit series.

Karen Travis wrote novels like The Clone Wars movie novelization and the Republic Command Series.

Both, in my opinion, are very talented writers but both also suffered thanks to sexiest and overzealous fans. There are many reason why they became ‘infamous’ but the main reason is their political stance. They both had a lot of sympathy for the clones and the enslaves citizens of the GFFA, and both were not shy about calling out the Jedi Order and the Senate for their inaction. Of course, jedi stans hated them. To add insult to injury, Karen Traviss was the writer who ‘killed’ Mara Jade (btw, this wasn’t her idea but she’s still hated for it).

Karen Miller ‘crimes’:

Her biggest ‘offense’ was being mistaken by Karen Traviss (more on that later). Beyond that all she did was write Anidala and portraying Anakin and Obi-wan as good but flawed people. This is the kind of stuff she wrote:

“Coruscant was out there. Padmé was out there. There was a heart in his chest, beating, but it was only an echo. She was his true heart. She was his home.”  - Karen Miller’s Clone Wars Gambit: Siege

“He saw himself a candle. He saw himself behind a wall. Brick by brick he tried to raise it. Brick by brick, it was destroyed. Every death was a hammer blow. Every loss a chisel. The Sith were a wily foe, they knew where and when to strike. They were drawn to weak places, to old griefs and unhealed wounds.” - Karen Miller. The Clone Wars: Wild Space

To weep for a fallen comrade was to display unseemly attachment. A Jedi did not become attached to people, to things, to places, to any world or its inhabitants. A Jedi’s strength was fed by serenity. By distance. By loving impersonally. Karen Miller. The Clone Wars: Wild Space

Nothing particularly edgy or offensive. Imo, she’s one the best prequel writes in the game.

Karen Traviss ‘crimes’:

Beyond killing Mara Jade, she’s known for being critical of the Jedi and Republic and advocating for clone wars. She supported the highly offensive and controversial idea that clones were human being who deserved the freedom. She also believed that love (romantic or platonic), family and friends were not inherently evil and that Order made mistake by banning them.

Karen Trraviss is also know for writing so much of what we know of Mandalorian culture and she struck a nerve that too.

She wrote things like:

“The only thing [the clones] all had in common was their appearance—although they were starting to age differently, she could see that now—and what the Republic had done to them. Apart from that, they were individuals with the full range of virtues and habits of random humankind, and she now felt completely at home with them. If she had a side in this war, this was the one she chose: the disenfranchised, unreasonably loyal, heartbreakingly stoic ranks of manufactured men who deserved better.”  Star Wars - Republic Commando: True Colors by Karen Traviss

Serenity, my backside. Passion. Passion and anger and love. That’s what this galaxy needs, not serenity. Passion for change. Anger at this brutality. Love-buckets of it, for everyone, love between child and parent, between spouses, between brothers and sisters, between friends. We need more attachment, not less. Attachment can stop us from tearing ourselves apart. The Clone Wars: No Prisoners by Karen Traviss

He wanted to ask her why only a handful of Jedi objected to a slave army, and why they could claim to believe in the sanctity of all life and yet treat some life as being exempt from that respect. [REPUBLIC COMMANDO: TRUE COLORS BY KAREN TRAVISS[

Fandom (over)reaction:

Because of her ‘polemic’ takes, she started getting a lot of hate from the fandom. She used to interact with the fandom and her reward was to get constant death and rape threats. Some fans threatened her with ‘corrective rape’ to change her mind about the Jedi Order and other topics. Apparently, she responded by calling these fans ‘talifans’.

And the fans used that reaction to further vilify her. she was accused of hating the Jedi Order, of favoring Mandalore over them, getting the size of the clone army wrong, of ruining the OT by killing Mara Jade and now, of attacking fans. She was basically bullied out of the franchise.

However, her depictions of Clones and Mandalorians as heroes, while portraying the Jedi as petty or villainous, frustrated some fans, who felt that her stories and characters were counter to Star Wars. These fans wrote negative reviews of her books, and created a petition to George Lucas to stop Traviss from writing further Star Wars books. Traviss also received rape and death threats. Traviss wrote about these experiences on her blog, attacking the fans who created the petition, and likening them to Muslim extremists by calling them "Talifans." Traviss ultimately retired from Star Wars writing due to the threats she received.  [x]

It got to point where she had to write an open letter to the fandom explaining she DIDN’T hate the Jedi Order, she just didn’t believe things like war crimes and slavery should be so easily overlooked.

“No sane human can hate someone who doesn’t actually exist. From a writer’s perspective, the more super-powers characters acquire, the harder it is to develop logical story arcs and true human drama…but I don’t have any real feelings about fictional characters that stay with me once I step out of character-point-of-view-writing mode and get on with my life […] My real problem, then, is not with fictional Jedi, but with the people who refuse to believe they can do wrong. – Karen traviss [x]

If you want to know more about this, check this out :)

Now, back to Karen Miller

A few years ago, a popular sw tumblr tried to discredit Traviss writing by spreading the info that  she was a sexualizing Ahsoka with Bail so people started hating her for that too. Thing is, Karen Miller was the one accused of doing that but here is the deal:

Neither Karens ever wrote Ahsoka interacting with Bail Orgarna. What actually happened was that someone wrote a fic about Bail sexualizing Ahsoka on fanfiction.net, someone read it and decided the writing style was similar to Karen Miller’s so OF COURSE it must be Karen Miller who wrote the fanfic. Thanks to that genius level of deductive work, over the time people started saying that Karen Traviss wrote about Bail wanting to fuck Ahsoka as extra proof that SHE IS EVIL and should not be taken seriously.

Conclusion

Regardless of what you feel about someone writing, it’s NEVER okay to send them rape or death threats. Never! unfortunately, some hardcore jedi stans still spread the ‘karen traviss was attacking us’ without explaining exactly transpired between her and the fandom. According to their narrative, she was the *only* one in the wrong. That’s why there’s so much misinformation about her and what truly happened online.

My take on this ‘controversy’ is very simple: stop sending rape and death threats to women. I don’t care if you agree with her or not. The moment you believe a women *deserve* to be rape or killed, or support those who do, you lose any more ground you might think have. The situation becomes even more dire if it’s done to protect FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. 🤦‍♀️ I swear...this fandom....

#ask #englishlady #sw meta #sw fandom #karen traviss #txt #karen miller #meta: fandom

[gffa]

So some Ronin reporting on the Jedi worldbuilding. It mostly just makes the Jedi of the saga look better by contrast. This is what actually hypocritical Jedi look like. The Jedi adoptees adopt the surname of their clan, and are encouraged to pick a new personal name. They're really separated from their birth families. And the adoptees feel that. Every Sith was an adoptee, as their rebellion was in part against the hierarchy of the bloodline Jedi. And they actually describe themselves as being kidnapped. The Empire is, with the blessing of the Jedi, hunting down any alternate force traditions. Also they treat the Rei'izu refugees completely differently from how the Jedi attempt to help any refugees they encounter. And the biggest kicker is that it establishes a damn good reason for the Jedi to not having bio families (just like the Jedi Covanent of legends). If Ronin is arranged as in the main contuinity's far past, then the "no kids" thing was a major reform in the Order. The Jedi are organized into clans, which sometimes fight eachother depending on what their lords want. Those who are biologically descended from the clan's leader are bloodline Jedi, and are valued over adoptees. They pass down special fancy lightsabers through the generations and confer leadership over the clans, as well as supposedly being more powerful in the Force (sound familar). The Jedi of Ronin are described as once being the monks, scholars, artisans, and protectors that they're supposed to be. It was the Jedi acknowledging their offspring and creating the clan system that was their "fall". It was the original sin that birthed the Sith. Which is just a super interesting way to depict them.

Also Ronin is just flat out one of the best star wars books I've read in a long time. It's so interesting, the world is the right balance of new and familar. The themes! The characters! The worldbuilding! It's tragic, it's queer, it's emotion driven. It's as good as I imagined.

Oh, this is very interesting to hear, thank you for reporting in on this! I'm still only a quarter of the way through the book, so I've only gotten into things a bit and haven't seen the shape of the larger book yet, but the queer themes have definitely been a joy to read! It's interesting to look at the Jedi in this light, that so many of the things you've listed are directly against how the Jedi of the Saga behave in the source material, especially the clan system being the point where they fell! Though, I'm not sure how well this would or wouldn't fit in with being part of canon. I mean, it's a Visions tie-in, so it's not meant to be direct canon in the first place, but also I think (at least as far in as I am???) that the Force works differently here than how George Lucas has described it, where here it seems to be more of a yin/yang thing, while it's selfish/selfless or anger/compassion in the canon world. And that's really cool to play with, one of the best things about Visions was "That's Not How The Force Works And That's Great!" I'm definitely coming back to discuss this more once I manage to tear myself away from the stellar fanfic this fandom is posting lately and get back into reading SW novels!

#jedi order #star wars visions #novels #meta

[helbertinelli]

As someone who likes a lot of the newer Star Wars content that’s been put out in the past decade, I’m wondering why a lot of people are constantly claiming that “Disney” Anakin and Padme are OOC.

I get it, Anidala is my comfort ship too and I only ever want the best for them, but the circumstances of their marriage were super unhealthy for both of them and it seems pretty obvious that it would manifest in other ways instead of just at the end of ROTS. They’re both incredibly strong willed people who believe they know what’s right, and they never really got to be together or effectively communicate with each other, and that’s super tragic.

Anakin and Padme are flawed characters, that’s something that people stress a lot, I’m just wondering why when any creator other than George tries to explore those flaws through their relationship, they’re seen as portraying them OOC. Obviously George has a lot of insight into their characters, relationship, and flaws and has revealed a lot about them through interviews, extras, etc., but I don’t think he was necessarily as good at showing it through the films (Padme especially gets a lot of her important scenes/plotlines cut and her characterization kind of suffers from that).

Idk, it might just be that I have a different perspective (I got into the fandom at around 2013 when a lot of new content was coming out) but I don’t struggle with reconciling a lot of the newer works as expanded characterizations, I don’t think that they necessarily contradict what’s present in the films most of the time.

Ultimately, it probably just comes down to how you interpret Star Wars as George Lucas’ creation, the man was very adamant that it was *his* story before he sold it, but I think multiple authorial viewpoints can exist in this massive franchise.

(Obviously people can have their own interpretations and there is no definitive “right” way to look at things, just wondering what the thought process is here)

Thanks for your ask. I’m going to break it down into the points you’ve sent just so I can keep my answer organized and not all over the place. 1. As someone who likes a lot of the newer Star Wars content that’s been put out in the past decade, I’m wondering why a lot of people are constantly claiming that “Disney” Anakin and Padme are OOC.

Because they made Anakin think that Padme would cheat on him and then they made Padme afraid of Anakin and made her tell him they need a break. And because they retconned their story in order to stuff in Clovis in Padme’s story. And it doesn’t fit in the timeline of events that have already been established for Padme and it doesn’t fit with her character at all. In AOTC, in the novel, it says specifically that Padme never made time for herself and she only cared about being a Senator. They mention it in the movie too, but in the book, they go more in depth. There’s no way she made time to have a relationship with Clovis.

Again, for Padme, they (TCW) also make her more focused on her job and they treat Anakin like he’s just some side character in her life. This is completely out of character for Padme. We saw in AOTC that Padme developed from this person who only put her job first, to a person who finally allowed herself to have feelings for someone else and who would put that person before anything else.

If this was not true, then Padme would not have ignored Mace Windu’s request to stay on Tatooine until the Jedi go and rescue Obi-Wan, she would not have married Anakin at the end of AOTC, she would not have gotten pregnant with him, she would not have lived with him on Coruscant, she would not have made plans (and been happy about those plans) to leave her job and move to Naboo and raise their child(ren) there, she would not have went after Anakin after he turned to the dark side and asked him to go away with her.

TCW ignored that Padme got significant development in AOTC and that because of that development her character from TPM and the beginning of AOTC was now changed. They ignored that and decided to portray Padme as we see her at the beginning of AOTC. Spending time with Anakin is a chore, it doesn’t matter what Anakin says even if his concerns are right, only the Republic and her job matter.

There are moments in TCW where their relationship is good, but there are really bad and out of character moments that overshadow the good stuff.

2. I get it, Anidala is my comfort ship too and I only ever want the best for them, but the circumstances of their marriage were super unhealthy for both of them and it seems pretty obvious that it would manifest in other ways instead of just at the end of ROTS. They’re both incredibly strong willed people who believe they know what’s right, and they never really got to be together or effectively communicate with each other, and that’s super tragic.

I don’t think their marriage or the circumstances of their marriage were unhealthy. Their relationship is one of the best ones in Star Wars since it’s very mutual and it’s based on respect and understanding. Padme and Anakin know each other very well and they understand the other like no one else. They’re also nothing but respectful and loving of one another. I don’t see how that is unhealthy.

Them having to hide their marriage and not being able to spend time with one another too because of the war does have an effect on Anakin and Padme, but not on their relationship. Neither of them would think that it would be better not to have a relationship than to have a secret one. I know that Padme said this in AOTC, but she changes her mind about that fairly quick. Again, going to the AOTC book, we actually see Padme doubting her words in that very scene and she’s thinking they’d end up be destroyed worse by not allowing themselves to be together.

3. Anakin and Padme are flawed characters, that’s something that people stress a lot, I’m just wondering why when any creator other than George tries to explore those flaws through their relationship, they’re seen as portraying them OOC. Obviously George has a lot of insight into their characters, relationship, and flaws and has revealed a lot about them through interviews, extras, etc., but I don’t think he was necessarily as good at showing it through the films (Padme especially gets a lot of her important scenes/plotlines cut and her characterization kind of suffers from that). 

George Lucas did not have a lot of time to show Anakin and Padme’s relationship in the movies. And yes, Padme did get a lot of her scenes cut out. I don’t think her characterization suffered from it, because we, as the audience, could still understand what Padme stood for and what was important for her. Sure more detail would have been nice, but I don’t think that her characterization was lacking in any way. Like in AOTC it would have been nice to see more scenes of her that showed her being in love with Anakin, but there were still other scenes left in the movie that showed this very well.

I don’t think that only George Lucas is able to explore the flaws in their relationship and their characters. I think I’ve seen some fragments from some SW books on here that have Anidala scenes and Anakin and Padme do have some conflict, but they resolve it. Like there was one where Padme had to go on a mission that Anakin didn’t approve with and they basically talked it out and reached kind of a compromise I think. And there was another book where Anakin and Padme wanted to make out and have sex, but Bail and Obi-Wan were close by and despite how much they both wanted each other and how much it hurt them not to be together, they agreed it was better this way.

The problem is when people create conflict in their relationship that would not make sense in the first place, and then try to say that because of that conflict they just created, Anakin and Padme’s relationship is bad. Like as I discussed above with TCW and making Anakin think that his wife would cheat on him. That would never happen. I think it was in the ROTS book where Palpatine is trying to convince Anakin that Padme is having an affair with Obi-Wan and Anakin is like “Nope, I know Padme.“

It makes no sense to change Anakin’s character to now believe that his wife is cheating just to create drama in their relationship. The TCW writers tried to push a weird love triangle on a happily married couple and then they tried to make Anakin seem like the bad guy for not liking Clovis forcing himself on Padme and for trying to get her killed before that. They created a conflict that would never happen in their relationship normally and then they were like “Oh look Anidala is toxic!“

4. Idk, it might just be that I have a different perspective (I got into the fandom at around 2013 when a lot of new content was coming out) but I don’t struggle with reconciling a lot of the newer works as expanded characterizations, I don’t think that they necessarily contradict what’s present in the films most of the time.

Ultimately, it probably just comes down to how you interpret Star Wars as George Lucas’ creation, the man was very adamant that it was *his* story before he sold it, but I think multiple authorial viewpoints can exist in this massive franchise.

(Obviously people can have their own interpretations and there is no definitive “right” way to look at things, just wondering what the thought process is here)

I can’t speak for your perspective, but it’s fairly easy to see that TCW is not really expanded characterization in the case of Padme and Anidala, specifically, but it actually contradicts things that were already established in canon. In order to achieve TCW!Padme they had to go back on Padme’s characterization in AOTC and completely ignore her character from ROTS. I know TCW takes place between AOTC and ROTS, but in the timeline, Padme would already have been married to Anakin for some time, so a lot of her characterization from ROTS would have to be incorporated in TCW!Padme. But they didn’t. TCW!Padme is basically TPM + beginning of AOTC Padme but done badly. TCW!Anidala is very contradictory with Anidala in the movies. Not only do Anakin and Padme mistrust one another and doubt each other, but the timeline has been modified to squeeze in Clovis.

We see a bit of conflict in the movies, when Padme tells Anakin that maybe the Republic is wrong and yes, it never goes anywhere, but at least it is realistic conflict. It’s not “Hey here’s my secret boyfriend that I never told you about even though we are married and I’m gonna spend time with him even though he got me poisoned one time and then my handmaiden got killed by his stupid plot and I almost endangered the Republic by helping him out and if you don’t like that he’s forcing himself onto me, then I guess our marriage is broken and we can’t be together for a while.“ That is completely against their relationship based on both of them being loving and honest and respectful to each other.

The movies made it clear that despite everything that was going on in both of their lives, Anakin and Padme found comfort in one another. They were open and honest and loving to each other (up until the point of Anakin turning to the dark side). TCW ignored all of that and pushed their own interpretation onto Anidala. Anidala was meant to be a fairytale romance that was basically the two of them against all odds and they brought the best in each other. Their characters were extremely connected that it was weird to have Padme without Anakin or Anakin without Padme. They were both extremely committed to each other, they were both ride or die for one another. And we saw it in the movies very well. Anakin destroys everything to be with Padme and Padme is willing to leave everything behind to be with him despite all the horrible things he has done. She dies still believing there’s good in him. And then TCW comes in and tries to make Anidala in some cheap TV sitcom romance where all they do is bicker and get jealous and Padme acts like it’s such a chore being Anakin’s wife. They westernize their relationship in the worst kind of way.

There’s no way to not find it contradictory that Padme in the movies who, dies from a broken heart and her last words are that there’s still good in Anakin, despite everything he did to the galaxy and to her personally, would be the same as TCW!Padme, who gets angry and scared of her husband beating up the guy who tried to sexually assualt her and then tells her husband that their marriage isn’t a marriage and that they need to take a break. It makes no sense at all.

I’m all for conflict between Padme and Anakin, but it needs to be realistic conflict. It can’t be what TCW tried to push on them or the silly theories of Padme hating Anakin for turning to the darkside (when she tried to get him to run away with her and even before in AOTC she consoled him after attacking the Tusken) or her trying to kill him at any point (when she dies believing there’s still good in him). That’s like saying that Luke would try to kill his nephew and then run away and hide on a remote planet, abandoning his family. It contradicts what has already been established about him.

Also, when you write something like TCW where you’re basically adding stuff to the middle of something, you’re basically required to know the source material of what came before and what came after the thing you are writing and you need to make your story fit and respect what came before and what came after. Otherwise, you just end up writing TCW!Padme and TCW!Anidala where it contradicts already established canon. If I never watched SW and I would just now start watching it for the first time and I’d watch: TPM, AOTC, TCW, ROTS, SWR, RO, ANH, ESB, and ROTJ, it would make no sense to me how Padme who told Anakin that their marriage isn’t a marriage, would distrust Obi-Wan when he told her of the attack and it would make no sense that she would go to talk to Anakin when TCW showed us how easy it is for her to just dump him.

This goes for TCW and for fan theories where Padme hates Anakin or she tries to kill him, I can’t reconcile those with the actual canon because then that character isn’t Padme anymore, and the ship isn’t Anidala anymore. It goes against the core of the ship, of what makes Anidala Anidala. They’re together because they’re so in love with each other and both of them will die being in love with each other. If you have them break up or end up hating each other, then you’re no longer writing about Anidala, that’s a different pairing entirely. With AUs and headcanons and fics and even other canon material, you have to be careful how you alter something so that the essence of a character or a pairing does not get lost. If it does, then you end up writing about different characters and different relationships. I’ll again use Luke as an example. Luke was willing to die for his family, to get his father, whom he didn’t even know beforehand, back, he even left his training because his family needed him. If you write Luke as being the person who wanted to kill a member of his family at the first sign of darkness, who then abandoned his family, and ignored all calls for him to come back, then you just lost the essence of Luke who was all about unconditional love and family, and you now have a different character altogether.

#anidala #padme amidala #anakin skywalker #sorry this got long #I hope this answers your question? #thanks for your ask #skorupiis #ask

[revenge-of-the-shit]

I posted 4,599 times in 2021

210 posts created (5%)

4389 posts reblogged (95%)

For every post I created, I reblogged 20.9 posts.

I added 870 tags in 2021

#non sw - 234 posts

#star wars - 201 posts

#sw - 138 posts

#the clone wars - 53 posts

#annessarose rambles - 49 posts

#the bad batch - 47 posts

#tcw - 40 posts

#the mandalorian spoilers - 37 posts

#anakin skywalker - 36 posts

#shang chi - 35 posts

Longest Tag: 138 characters

#diaspora is really a whole other entity because some of us are disconnected from our language so we can only research in western languages

My Top Posts in 2021

#5

Star Wars just unveiled its first canon trans non-binary Jedi and I am here for it

Link to post here

(Do NOT look at the comments they are not friendly😕)

1283 notes • Posted 2021-03-31 17:04:29 GMT

#4

99% of the discourse surrounding the Jedi would disappear if people actually defined the word “attachments” as the way George Lucas defined them (i.e. possessive, destructive love) instead treating it as a synonym for healthy love

2417 notes • Posted 2021-05-20 14:19:23 GMT

#3

Hello this is a friendly reminder that Temura Morrison is Māori and that the clones are not white so please stop whitewashing them thank you

2857 notes • Posted 2021-03-30 15:10:03 GMT

#2

I am so so so happy that Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings is getting so much positive reception. After I got home w my friends we couldn't do anything but talk about it and we sat in a bit of stunned silence for a bit because we realized that this is literally the first time that we've ever gotten such accurate representation. I got emotional three times throughout the film, not because of plot, but because of the little details that just connected with me so much as a Chinese diaspora kid.

That being said - if you're posting about it:

Please for the love of god stop calling Wenwu "the Mandarin." In the film he literally talks about how that name is an appropriation and literally makes fun of how america was scared of a moniker based on a goddamn citrus fruit. I know IMDb and the wikia list him a such, but quite frankly, it's wrong. Sorry not sorry. The name "Mandarin" is an appropriation so please call him by his actual name, 徐文武 (pronounced Xú Wénwǔ).

The appropriate pinyin spelling for Shang-Chi is Shangqi (officially his name is 徐尚氣, pronounced Xú Shàngqì). Shang-Chi is just the romanized version to make it easier for westerners to pronounce.

Do. Not. Call. Him. Shang. If you can say Mary Jane every time you talk about Spider-man's love interest you certainly can say Shangqi. Chi/qi isn't his middle name, it's literally part of his personal name. He very clearly did not give anyone permission to shorten his name to Shang. Refer to him by his proper name.

3904 notes • Posted 2021-09-05 17:43:46 GMT

#1

Another thing I appreciate about The Book of Boba Fett is that both lead characters are past what media likes to classify as "the prime." Temuera Morrison is 60 and Ming-Na Wen is 57. Like. A show that showcases older POC as people who can be fucking badass as well? Sign me the fuck up

5118 notes • Posted 2021-11-01 23:40:05 GMT

Get your Tumblr 2021 Year in Review →

#my 2021 tumblr year in review #long post #im pretty sure this is inaccurate actually i have a second shang-chi post that has enough notes to be wedged between the listed #1 and 2 #but this is interesting lol