Oooh do go on about raven neil and jean 👀 (if you’re so inclined ☺️) - @neil-jostenminyard
*chanting* raven Neil raven Neil raven Neil (and lots of Jean) (quite possibly even jeaneil) (although most of the thoughts are post-ravens lol)
So my personal thoughts about this are also mostly thanks to chats and inspiration/prompting from @jtl-fics and @greenautumnleaves so if you see any additions from them on this post it's most likely also thoughts I adore lol
Anyway this got kind of long so:
I ALSO latched onto Sakavic's statement that Neil wouldn't leave Jean in the nest bc yeah it makes sense and also ow
But just the two of them being partnered up like Riko and Kevin as is common in these aus, and then after Kevin gets out first, they have to stick together and rely on each other even MORE because Riko is pissed that Kevin is gone and probably takes it out on the next closest two idk
But in our imaginings, Renee or Andrew get Jean out quicker than in canon, again because Neil would refuse to leave Jean behind and I can only imagine he'd go so far as to trick or manipulate Jean into leaving. Maybe by being at a certain place at a certain time to get picked up, however he can make it happen. But the issue we run into is that once that's done, what the hell would Neil have left at Evermore, besides Exy that maybe he still loves deep down. But Exy's been so warped being raised on it at the nest that at that point his obsession is barely recognizable.
Kevin might recognize this, because he knew Neil in the nest. Or at least he knew the person that Neil presented himself as. But it's probably more likely that Jean recognizes this, and yeah things are super rocky and weird but Jean can barely even function without Neil. So back a fox goes to rescue their second raven's partner.
They bring Neil back to Palmetto and he and Jean are completely inseparable. Emotionally and physically. Neither of them act like, feel like, or even call themselves "touchy feely" or "clingy" people but as soon as Neil is treated for various intense and mysterious injuries, they're curled up in some hidden place for hours. Even the short time having left Neil behind made Jean almost too anxious to leave his room. Even the short time without Jean - now with more punishment for aiding Jean's escape - was enough for Neil to consider something drastic.
(side note: Andrew now has not one, not two, but three gorgeous tragic boys under his supervision and I'm sure he's handling that totally normally lmao. But it's so obvious to him that Jean and Neil have something going on that any ideas for himself aren't worth entertaining.)
So it's a little easier to ease out of various habits and thought processes because Jean and Neil are doing it together, with outside help. They fix their sleep cycles/rhythms, try a slightly more normal college diet, and most slowly lose their "win or die" mindset in practices. They're still never seen without each other - Wymack had a talk with some of the school board about their schedules and dorm arrangements for the first semester. In reality, he's not sure if he should have them go cold turkey on raven habits or if he should take it slower, but he's doing his damn best to get these boys adjusted to life outside a cult. And Neil and Jean, whether or not they actively realize it, find that step to be the one they absolutely cannot take. Why would they go through the agony of learning to live separately if they don't have to. When no one else understands them like the other, when they've already seen each other's worst so nothing else is worth keeping secret between them. Who else is Jean going to go to when having a better life makes him feel like he more deserves death or punishment and the guilt hits him so hard he can't breathe, much less sleep. Who else is Neil going to go to when he can't let go of his birthright - if he isn't good at what he does (Exy) he literally could just be shot like a lame horse - and he's not allowed to go practice Exy against a wall to the point of tearing himself apart anymore so he forces his feet away from the court to find the only person he knows he'll listen to when they say no.
Kevin, of course, is keeping a close eye on the two, whether unintentionally or on purpose is unclear. Neil still has a mouth on him, he sometimes plays mind games with the foxes like chess against himself, and most of all does not allow anyone to get too close to Jean. Jean is still quiet, having learned not only to take a punishment without resistance but also that Neil will speak first. Neil will resist so Jean doesn't have to. He's safer in Neil's shadow.
Maybe it's a phrase or warning that Neil uses and that Kevin recognizes. Maybe it's a gesture between Neil and Jean that Kevin oversees. Maybe it's just the general demeanor of the two. But whatever it is is familiar to Kevin, not in a "I remember this from them in the nest" way. He can recognize by now that Riko was not good to him, he can acknowledge it even if the rest of him hasn't caught up. He looks at Jean in Neil's shadow and remembers himself in Riko's.
As if Butcher's son Nathaniel Wesninski wasn't already scary enough on his own.
But Kevin won't allow this kind of thing on his court, and he's not good at it but he is still trying to let go of unhealthy raven ideals. If Neil is holding onto some fucked up dynamic, Kevin is going to put a stop to it.
He pulls Jean aside, a miraculous feat. He asks what Neil has done.
"Mistake" might be an understatement.
It could very easily be the longest string of words Jean has said to anyone besides Neil. Kevin doesn't know near as much French as he does in canon - Neil is the one that shares that secret defiance - so it's all clear English, Jean making sure Kevin understands every word. Kevin should never speak about Neil that way again. He knows nothing about them, he shouldn't so much as pretend to understand Neil. Neil is the only good thing that ever happened to Jean. Kevin never cared enough to bring it up in the nest, so he has no right to start caring now.
It isn't great for their already tumultuous relationship. Kevin wonders for a bit if Jean would tell Neil about it - then next practice Neil doesn't even try to work with Kevin, even after the two had made it a point as strikers to figure out how to. He ignores the other strikers entirely, falling immediately and seamlessly into perfect synch with Jean behind him, speaking hardly a word of English the whole practice. Because he knows that will make Kevin even more angry than Neil being actively hostile to his new teammates.
Kevin isn't sure what he was expecting. Chances are Jean hadn't even needed to bring it up for Neil to notice something was off.
As for Andrew, I think he could still pick up a game of truths. He'd need to offer a similar deal as he did for canon Neil, this time for Neil-and-Jean, the entity of the two of them together. I think he could ensure some cooperation by saying he won't force Jean and Neil apart from each other the way some others have muttered about doing. Even if Neil knows by now the codependence isn't healthy, neither of them are ready to give it up.
It probably really throws Andrew to hear that they don't consider themselves to be an item. They're together, sure, but for a raven that doesn't always, maybe even rarely, means "in a traditional relationship". Neil and Jean definitely never offer any clarification. That's no one else's business, even if they could explain it so that a non-raven could understand. Generally I feel like if this is an andreil universe, it's an even longer, stranger, more winding road to get there than in canon.
I'm almost CERTAIN there's more Im forgetting about rn but this has been my taster on raven Neil+Jean, I hope it was at least a little bit coherent, and greenautumnleaves - I hope this comes anywhere close to your galaxy brain ideas on these two lol. Maybe I'll be back with other thoughts later who knows
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Japan’s concept of confession and why Ochaco might not confess
“Confession” is a big deal in a country as subtle as Japan. Not all people have the courage to confess, but when starting official relationships confessions are often expected. This is what I know confessions to be like in the world of manga: Person A talks alone with Person B and shares with them the secrets of their heart. “I like you please accept my feelings.” This usually ends either with them going out or A being rejected by B. The usual reason for the rejection is “I like someone else.”
I’ve been having some more ideas about the day Izuku fell into Kacchan’s arms and how what Kacchan did for him was almost confessional in a way. He told Izuku what was in his heart, why he bullied him and that no matter how much he tried, he just couldn’t escape him. He called him “Izuku” and we saw the impact this had on Izuku’s face.
Izuku just couldn’t believe that Kacchan was calling his name properly for the first time in 12 years, it completely shocked him, and after apologising for everything, he told Izuku, “Come home, let’s do this together. We need to help each other in this fight against AFO.”
The conclusion of this confession was that Izuku acquiesced to 1-A’s request for him to return, but it was only really possible because his attachment to Kacchan triumphed over his motivations to stay away. It was Kacchan who broke down his walls with his apology. It was Kacchan who filled him with hope that things would be better, and Kacchan who finally hammered into Izuku how important it was for him to be part of the collective. That his inclusion was very wanted and needed, and that he in turn can rely more on everyone as well. That together, they can push forward, trusting in and helping each other.
I think what hurt Izuku the most during his solo arc was being away from his friends, but especially Kacchan. Because that day in the rain, he literally gave up on his solo vigilante mindset for him. After hearing Kacchan’s unbelievable words he had patiently longed to hear for years, it was impossible for Izuku to stay away from him any longer. As he passed out, he stumbled a few steps towards Kacchan who, without missing a beat, caught him in his arms and gently held him. This embrace told us “From now on it’ll be different. I’m gonna be here for you, Izuku.”
So to recap all of that... Kacchan became vulnerable and spilled what was in his heart, Izuku accepted his desires, with it all culminating in them becoming closer. Which is just like a successful romantic confession!?
I think after watching this all go down, something inside Ochaco clicked. A lot of the class are rushing over to Izuku when Kacchan catches him because they’re just so worried about him, but a few of them, Ochaco included, stay standing back. It doesn’t make much sense at all. But we’re given a zoom in of her without knowing any of the thoughts going through her mind.
They got Izuku back, but she doesn’t really seem all that happy. Momo says to her “this is just the first obstacle we aren’t done yet” and she agrees. Ochaco knows that there’s still more they as a group need to do for Izuku to make his return happen. But the fact that there’s a few panels dedicated to zooming in on her staying put, her almost emotionless face (mirroring Shoto’s) while she’s watching Kacchan save Izuku and his new unbridled intimacy he has with him - could be telling us that there’s something else she’s processing.
Is this moment somber for her because she realised the person Izuku needs the most is none other than the person he has openly admired since she first met him? The very same person who always bared his fangs at Izuku because he was scared him getting close?
Was Ochaco witnessing the beginning of something new between them and suddenly finding herself sidelined as a contender for Izuku’s affections?
Somehow… this could be what it was all about. And that’s why I think there’s a good chance Ochaco gave up her crush on Izuku for good when she witnessed Katsuki return his love and embrace him after that emotionally-charged apology. After this, a more defined distance between her and Izuku appears visible in their next scene together. A respectful distance of Izuku’s own choosing.
It was like a definitive line had been drawn out that can’t and perhaps shouldn’t be crossed. Maybe they both understood that the person Izuku wanted close by his side has always been Katsuki. That desire wasn’t simply a pipe dream to Izuku anymore, it had become reality. And who is Ochaco to get in the way of that?
And then it’s almost like she is bookending Katsuki’s confession to Izuku with a confession of her own about Toga, putting a close to the Izuocha chapter and she makes a comment which feels double in meaning. “I guess that means we are the same.” or You love a boy, just like I might love a girl. (To put it bluntly)
And Izuku remembers this line again after he gets separated from Kacchan and Ochaco is telling him to go. Go back to Tenko. Go back to your Kacchan.
The concept of “knowing how someone feels because you love them and always watch over them” comes up from time to time in manga. In a way, that’s also a reason why Kacchan and Izuku understand each other as deeply as they do and they aren’t afraid of showing it off. They were always watching each other from a safe distance and learning things about each other in this way. I think during chapter 322, this concept is what was happening to cause such a realisation in Ochaco. (And it’s also for this reason Tsuyu, who never had feelings for Izuku, still doesn’t get it.)
It was hard for her, knowing everything she does about Izuku’s deep attachment to Kacchan, to learn that Izuku’s affections for him weren’t one-sided and they were now closer than ever before… That’s why I don’t think she’ll want to get in the way by confessing anymore. If Kacchan’s apology was intended to be compared with a romantic confession, then Ochaco is probably aware that Izuku already “has someone he likes”… and that person isn’t her.
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Forgive me if I'm a bit nervous about Gorgug this season. It's just that the last Zac Oyama pc was Colin Provolone, who was arguably one of his greatest D20 performances, if not the greatest.
Zac always does great with every pc he plays, but Colin was something else. He came out swinging with actions and words that were teeming with unspoken emotional baggage. The way Colin's presence affected the other pcs; there was this level of depth that I don't think I've seen in any of his other characters. It was understated and quiet in that signature "just a guy" way that he tends to be, while still captivating everyone instantly with just how raw it was.
Not to say we haven't seen emotional depth in Gorgug. It's just that, compared to the other Bad Kids, Gorgug's journey and progression as a character has been very... impersonal? Like, yes, he found his birth parents, and he found friends who appreciate him, and he faced his insecurities about his intelligence, and he navigated relationship troubles, and his trial through the claustrophobic bug-tunnels was a horrifically-uncanny parallel to how he's spent his entire life trying to make himself as small as possible.
But how much of that has actually changed him from the Gorgug we started with? I would agree that he's definitely happier with his life, given all the loving and supportive people that have been added to it when it used to be just him and his parents. And he's certainly grown into himself and become more self-assured in his abilities, even if he's still, and always will be, our anxious little guy. And there's nothing wrong with that. I've always liked how Gorgug was a representation of all the little things. The subtle acts and kindnesses that don't seem like much to most, but to some are everything.
We don't need another Bad Kid living in fear that their mouth could be shit-in at any moment. We've already got one-too-many.
All that being said, I just feel like Gorgug's personal story beats are much easier to sweep under the rug than everyone else's. He has the same soft and understated quality that Colin held, but they lack that extra oomph that pushed Colin over the edge from being just another guy in a series of dudes, to a character that the vast majority of us could not get out of our heads. He took someone who was anxious and softspoken, who ultimately never wanted to be violent— someone who is remarkably similar to Gorgug in many ways— and maintained that demeanor and core in Colin's character while still hitting us in the feels with character development at max velocity at every turn.
I think Zac gets better and better at this with every season that goes by. With each new character, there is always something that leaves me stunned in awe. And it's been, what, three? Four years since we last saw Gorgug?
I'm just,,, I'm cautiously optimistic but also going into a bit of a worry about what violence this man may inflict upon us
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sorry but im still just thinking about how batman 105 (aka the comic where bruce gets his tits out and asks khoa to stay) begins with them having a sloppy breakup in the rain and khoa offering bruce to travel and save the world together, they'll live lavishly and gather resources. and then MAYBE they can tackle gotham together. hes trying to convince bruce to stay and that hes going to get himself killed because of his stupid bleeding heart and how he blames himself for every loss. that together they can conquer so much more. and bruce responds by calling him broken and telling him he's angry that bruce is always going to care about the people he saves. he's still determined to go, still choosing gotham over his best (and only) friend.
but he tells him this as theyre in the rain and khoa is still trying to convince bruce to change his mind despite the plane being there and knowing that bruce wont. bruce is one of the only people thats seen his face and knows his name, the only person that truly knows him—yet all those years they spent together still isn't as important as that vow bruce took as a mourning 8 year old boy. so he demands for bruce to never say his name again—he doesn't get that right or the one to see his face ever again. and bruce still doesnt change his mind, leaving khoa behind without so much as a glance behind him.
while batman annual 2021 is khoa bragging about his greatest feat—taking down madame midas, the woman who laughed as his mother was killed and as her father strong-armed his father's independent business. he doesn't tell bruce this but it still ends with bruce pointing out there has to be a reason he cared and spent so long on it. khoa denies it, of course, repeating back what he tells himself constantly. he doesnt care about anything (and, by extension, about anyone). but the comic literally just showed us, the reader, between those two pages that this isnt true! he had a personal motive, he recired back the words she told him all those years again! but after khoa says he doesnt care about anything is the first time on panel that bruce calls him khoa again (as far as i remember :p)
but then khoa is suddenly changing the topic!! not allowing bruce to continue, not even acknowledging the name or all the years it nust have been between the last time someone called him that—the last time BRUCE called him that. and its only after the accusation of khoa caring like how he does—of khoa not being ‘broken’ like how he said the last time he attempted to use that name!! AND that this is their last chronical interaction (on panel) before khoa is the one leaving bruce behind to train bao...
im sure bruce used it off panel before this (and it was probably during sloppy old man sex) but this being it on paper has been making me go >:3c!!!!
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