#VOD: Tommy Is Getting So Much Worse in Exile... | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

balillee · 3 years

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tommy's character gets far too much shit.

hi tumblr. i'm gonna need a few bitches to spread this post everywhere, essentially because i want someone, or just tommy really, to see it. so if you really want, you can screenshot it and post it on twitter, reddit, link it everywhere - go absolutely buck wild. i know he reads the VODS comments a lot, but they're chock full of people just insulting him, his character, his writing and everything about his story in the dream smp simply because they don't understand it and because they refuse to acknowledge his character's perspective (mainly because they only care about the pig). reading that many critical comments on something you've created can only make you feel worse about it eventually, and in light of all the awful techno apologist takes on his character, i wanted to basically just word vomit about how wonderfully crafted c!tommy is, as well as compile some other tumblr posts about his character.

there is a massive fuckin community of people who enjoy the character of tommy, because the character is incredible. i myself have made post after post after post commenting on and analysing tommy's character because i find that there's so much to pick apart. but that enthusiasm for his character only seems to be found on tumblr. reddit and twitter seem to hate his character, the VODS seem to be filled with comments from people who only care about techno's perspective (and treat techno as a reliable narrator, which, is the furthest thing from the truth - that guy lies through his teeth all the time), and the smp wiki is a hellscape of godawful takes and mistruths, not even on just tommy's character.

c!tommy is brilliantly acted and brilliantly written, and almost everything he does is either justifiable or has been rectified or admitted as a mistake. you can clearly make connections as to where he got his conclusions from. you feel what his character experiences, as a member of the audience, vividly.

if you look in the more objective sense, c!tommy, and this is especially in the context of him being the youngest character, is a scapegoat. people claim he's awful and destructive when in reality he's a lot less destructive than most characters on the server. a moment that comes to mind is where he diverts schlatt and quackity's attention from pogtopia by breaking part of the flag in manberg, and then replacing it so as to buy tubbo some time - he literally monologues after it about how he doesn't want to destroy but instead rebuild, and how he feels as if nobody else seems to understand that.

his arc in season two was incredible. it was very character driven, and it gave a spotlight to his motivations. at the start we see him in new l'manberg, and he's enjoying his time there, he's skeptical of his friend's presidency, but his main goal is to get back the discs so that he can stop dream and eliminate that threat. he made one screw up that didn't even matter to george, and he paid for it tenfold, even after dream had spent a while with puffy griefing the server and framing it on tommy - what tommy and ranboo did was convinient. then, in exile, we see c!tommy straight up get abused. he's gaslit and conditioned into being c!dream's friend, and in his brain he teaches himself that those acts of abuse are moments of bonding, and it eventually brings him to the point of wanting to end his own life - he's been torn away from his friends and his support system, and nobody will visit him consistently anymore because they only showed him pity, and all he had left was dream, who had hurt him.

but he doesn't die there, because while he didn't understand the full gravity of it back then like he does now, he recognises that dying isn't an escape, and he can beat dream, even if he doesn't know how. so this is where he goes to techno's place, and here's where the fandom starts to misinterpret the situation wildly.

it's the problem similar to when your parents tell you that they're owed something back because you put a roof over their head, despite that being Not How It Works. techno took tommy in and severely mistreated him emotionally. sure, and i understand this, c!techno is a bad communicator who isn't really that empathetic to anyone who isn't phil or wilbur, but that doesn't excuse the blatant lying to c!tommy's face, the guilt tripping, the friendship buying and the degrading. the day before the festival, tommy finally does something violent in his interrogation of fundy, and only then does techno tell him,,,,

that tommy's not equal to him, that techno doesn't respect him all that much, and that they're not friends.

from techno's perspective, and at the time, this was viewed as a positive development in their relationship. oh, he's starting to warm up to tommy! this friendship could really blossom!

no. from a more objective standpoint, what techno has just said to tommy is : 'i respect you only a little bit more now, because while you're starting to act more like me, you're still annoying and a burden.'

and i haven't even touched on the whole 'erasing the words 'Destroy L'manberg' from techno's to-do list' thing, because that instantly refutes the point of 'techno was upfront with his intentions the whole time' - because he wasn't! he may have said it the first time, but you also know what else he did? he repeatedly told tommy that they'd 'air the details out later' whenever the discs were brought up, and from a tommy viewer's perspective at the time, it was framed as if techno was no longer going to do that.

and i also haven't dared touch the 'i would have fought them all for you', because that's major guilt tripping if ever i've seen it.

so, the day of the festival comes, and here's where c!techno and his apologists completely misread c!tommy's thought process, and why he makes the decision he does.

tommy instantly regrets valuing the discs over tubbo, and it's framed as the culmination of tommy having become all the people he said he would never want to be like. and what does he immediately do? he tells tubbo to give up the disc, and he sides with tubbo. he puts his value in his friends, and, by proxy, l'manberg. and when he betrays techno, he tells him 'i'm sorry'.

from a more objective standpoint, tommy's time with techno is him valuing the discs over almost anything else. so, in leaving techno to be with tubbo again, he is valuing people above the discs. so when, on doomsday, techno says his 'discs aren't people' line, what he doesn't realise is that he himself fueled tommy's valuing of discs above people when attempting to fuel tommy's vengeance against tubbo and l'manberg. techno doesn't realise that he was an unhealthy presence for tommy, and an even worse influence.

what techno also doesn't seem to understand is that tommy never hated tubbo or l'manberg - tommy recognises, now at least, that his exile wasn't a product of tubbo, but a product of dream's manipulation, likely in part because at the time, especially with dream lying about tommy blowing up the community house, tommy was the only one who could see it because he had experienced it firsthand. so when techno sides with dream, it's like kicking tommy in the teeth.

and i want to mention that betraying someone doesn't necessarily make the person who was betrayed good, or in the right, or even justified, because tommy was entirely justified to leave techno. you know who else was betrayed? schlatt. but i don't see many schlatt apologists around angry at quackity for joining the rebellion.

tommy stole the axe of peace? good. it was a moment of tommy defining his self-worth, instead of having it defined by others. gone is the age of c!techno belittling him and deciding how much c!tommy should be respected. NEXT!

here's a moment i wanted to talk about that will forever be funny to me.

'i am a person.'

techno's very famous line from doomsday. techno says to tommy that discs aren't people, and that tommy should value people, despite not understanding that by leaving techno, he did just that. and what does tommy say in return, which has been omitted from every c!tommy-critical analysis, and every animatic?

'yes you are, but so are we.'

an acknowledgement of techno's hurt, to which tommy has already apologised for. a statement that says 'your hurt does not excuse, nor justify, the hurt you have inflicted onto us.' an acknowledgement that tommy has already learnt the lesson techno seems to be trying to 'teach' him. but you can't teach him anything by destroying.

c!tommy has had almost everything he has ever owned or built either taken from him or destroyed. ranboo even points out that the only two things of tommy's left standing are his house and his hotel, and if i'm honest, his house is dissheveled. it's a labyrinth of terror due only to how many times it's been torn apart. l'manberg being blown up didn't teach anyone anything about anarchy, or about valuing people over possessions. logstedshire being blown up didn't teach tommy to be obedient.

i could honestly ramble for ages about how nuanced tommy's character is and how much depth and complexity there is to his character's process and his relationship with others, but more than that, c!tommy is forgiving. he invites almost everyone who hates him to the grand opening of his hotel - if that isn't an indicator that he just wants friends, and not to be treated like the embodiment of evil, then i don't know what is. he holds grudges, but he doesn't really actively hate anyone, other than c!dream. but, we'll let him. c!dream deserves nothing but to be pummeled into the floor.

tommy doesn't spoonfeed his character nuance, and he doesn't really spell it out for his audience. he'll mention things like trauma and triggers in passing, but a lot of analysis on his motivations has to be picked up from what is said in passing or from what can be seen in between the lines.

i'd be here for hours if i were to talk about everything i love about c!tommy, because honestly he's one of my favourite characters, and there are so many angles you can look at his character from in terms of his age, his relationships with others, his motivations, his personality, his character arcs etc etc. so instead of doing that, i'm going to compile some much more specific analysis posts below to skim through because they highlight so many good aspects of his character.

^^ A thread about the 'yes you are, but so are we' line.

^^ About how shit the VODS comments are.

^^ A comment on how c!Tommy is actually pretty peaceful, and is actually less destructive than most characters on the server.

^^ Possibly the best c!Tommy analysis thread I've ever seen in relation to his trauma, which gives multiple perspectives.

^^ About how c!Tommy is treated as a scapegoat, and how, from an objective standpoint, he is no more violent than any other character, it's just that the little violence that is committed is blown far out of proportion.

^^ Tumblr user flypaw being a bad bitch, as per usual.

^^ c!Tommy being incredibly intelligent, and talking about wanting to rebuild and not destroy. A very underrated monologue of his.

^^ Something short about c!Tommy and c!Wilbur's relationship in Pogtopia.

^^ Less about c!Tommy, more a meta on L'Manberg. Really interesting to think about.

^^ A take on Doomsday.

I'll add some more posts in a reblog in the notes, but if anyone's post(s) is on this and they want me to take it off, let me know and I'll do that for you! Feel free to add your own banger c!Tommy takes or ones that you've found.

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relaxxattack · 3 years

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my brain: oh yeah exile was tommy getting manipulated. that’s p much what happened

me accidentally clicking on an exile vod in my carrd and reliving hearing the absolute beaten tone of tommy’s voice, how scary and broken it was, how empty the world and days were, how depressed and suicidal he was, and how dream spoke to him as if he were a little pet:

(it’s always so much fucking worse than you remembered)

#tommyinnit #tw dream #tw abuse #og post #my meta #dv 1

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aroaceacacia · 3 years

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pokes dream smp fandom

hey can we stop making jokes about "all of the minors getting manipulated", "c!dream loves abusing children", etc. because it's going to (and already is) inevitably lead down a path that simultaneously infantilizes four 17 year old boys and makes c!dream look a lot worse than he already is.

so much of this fandom's common knowledge is dependent on the main conversation, and while tommy's exile arc has been made into some highlight videos, c!dream's interactions with the other teenagers havent really been in any official capacity, and when you make jokes about how "3/4 minors have been abused by dream /rp" its kind of... spreading misinformation?

don't get me wrong, what c!dream did to tommy was inexcusable and unjustifiable; however, we should prioritize doing research on events and understanding what actually happened so that we can hold c!dream accountable for the crimes that he has actually committed

c!dream and c!ranboo have an ambiguous relationship; when enderwalking, ranboo has interacted with him and worked together to achieve goals (like the community house explosion). enderwalking ranboo visited dream in prison several times, and at one point when dream had another visitor, he asked for ranboo instead. dream has taught enderwalking ranboo lessons, and waking ranboo has begun to remember them. this is all we know of their actual relationship, considering the manifestation of waking ranboo's brainweird is only voice acted by dream and not actually c!dream. I personally dont think we know enough about their actual relationship yet to claim that ranboo has been abused/manipulated by him. it is still a possibility, but it is not a certainty

and yes, c!dream did manipulate tubbo during the new lmanberg era, specifically in order to get tubbo to isolate tommy via exile, however manipulation does not always equal abuse. this manipulation of tubbo is not suddenly made worse by the fact he is a few months younger than jack manifold

lastly I dont think c!dream and c!purpled have ever interacted during c!dream's villain era

also, by painting c!dream's only victims as the four minors on the server it ends up erasing the struggles of everyone else he hurt - sapnap, george, eret, bad, puffy, sam, just to name a few. their pain because of what c!dream did to them isnt and shouldnt be given less weight just because they're not minors. to be clear, they werent abused the way tommy was, but if you're counting c!tubbo as one of c!dreams abuse victims, at LEAST include everyone else, too.

tl;dr please try to understand what a character has done before you condemn them; the dream smp is full of unreliable narrators and the fandom is one of them. the best source of information is always going to be the vods themselves!

#dream smp #bearvocalizations #tw abuse #tw manipulation #dreamsmp #to reiterate. c!dream is not off the hook for what he did to tommy.#but he is not a serial child abuser either #also like. age is not a factor in power dynamics on the dream smp and never has been #but thats for.another time

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cregla · 3 years

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I've rewatched some of Season 1 and 2 vods and I think I need the new people on the fandom to understand that Tommy became obsessed with the Discs only when they were the only thing that he believed he could still have.

A quick explanation for who doesn't know what I am talking about (and by quick, I'm sorry, I already know it's not going to be quick).

Back in Season 1, before they even started Roleplaying, Tommy found some music discs - the two we're talking about are Mellohi (the first one, which he found by actively farming discs with Skeletons and Creepers) and Cat (which he found accidentally alongside with a spider spawner nearby his home). Tommy always cared about these discs, of course, as they were his first one on the server and CC!Tommy has said that both he and the character like Minecraft music discs.

At the time, the lore of Dream SMP is really smoky, because since they were not really roleplaying but merely playing around, everything that happened was canonized later. However, what we know as canon is that Dream stole Tommy's two discs after his involvement in Ponk, Alyssa and Sapnap's war (not one that Tommy started, even if people believe him to have done so. The fact that Tommy brought war and chaos with him when he came in the server is a wrong one, as things happened even before his arrival) and Tommy, of course, tried to take them back - leading to the first Discs war alongside Tubbo.

Of course Tommy cared about his disc. They were his, and they were wrongfully stolen. However, he easily accepted giving up Mellohi to Dream in case he lost the bow duel, if that would help gain L'Manberg independence. And after that, to win the Revolution, he proposed on his own will to give the man Cat too. He was sad about it, and angry, and promised to take them back one day, but he gave them up and he did it willingly for something he cared more about. A person that's obsessed with something would not do that.

The discs were always there in Tommy's mind, of course - but they were a "distant" objective, something he needed to take back because, again, he cared about them, and they were his, but they were not his priority. They were not his priority during the Election Arc, nor during Pogtopia. On November 16th, he actually declined the role of President to actively START seeking the discs - because he was responsible enough to know that by being the President of L'Manberg, he would have to not seek war with Dream again, as he would involve L'Manberg with him by doing so. He, however, was made Vice President (although he had said before that he didn't want to be VP exactly for this reason) and again didn't start a full war on Dream because of it. He always wanted to take the Discs back, but he wasn't obsessed with them enough to ignore everything to go after them. For him, the Discs canonically came after his friends - they came after L'Manberg, after all.

Then we go onto Exile.

I already said here and here what I think about Tommy's exile but TL;DR for those who didn't see the videos or didn't realize it: Tommy was not merely exiled, but kidnapped and abused, and manipulated to believe himself to be alone even if people would be there.

During exile, Tommy started believe to have nothing, no one there - he had lost Wilbur, he had lost Tubbo, he had lost L'Manberg and everything else. There is nothing there for him anymore - and he can no longer bear the abuses and the loneliness and everything else to the point that not only he actively become suicidal, but he would have actually killed himself once if Dream wasn't there and would have jumped to his death if he hadn't suddenly realized that Dream was abusing him.

From that point on, Tommy escapes - and he goes to Techno, and what does he have?

He lost Tubbo, he lost Wilbur, he lost L'Manberg and all his friend, and he lost Dream too - the fake friend he had and the only thing that he had was a tentative alliance with Technoblade. An alliance for what?

To retake what it was his. The only thing that, while lost, he could have obtained again. His discs, with help from Techno - and for how much I believe that Techno believed he was doing the best for Tommy, and while he didn't say so out loud (and in contrary, he denied this several time) he considered Tommy a friend and an ally in that moment, he was also... shoving him towards a really, dark path, unaware of this or not.

Because Tommy started his villain arc right there. He started torturing people, for god sake. Even Technoblade said to him that he was exaggerating! And he continued, on and on.

Until that line. The line that everyone love to quote out of context.

"The Discs were worth more than you ever were!"

But what is the context of this quote? Tommy's angry. Tommy's angry, because he feels that everyone's (besides Techno) has left him behind. Tubbo exiled him, his friends didn't visit (again, they did, but I already explained here why he felt he was alone), everyone believed him to be a villain who had destroyed the Community House and Tubbo, Tubbo was going to give his disc, his precious disc that was in his care because Tommy trusted him to keep it safe, to Dream. His abuser. And so Tommy attacks, and starts screaming at Tubbo, and in rage, he says this phrase which is absolutely not true.

And then, Tommy stops. Tommy realizes what he has said - and he realized how's spiraling to a dark place. He says it later - "I'm worse than everyone I didn't want to be". Because this obsession is not worth it and he, himself, realize it. And so he gives up his discs - he says to Tubbo to give it to Dream.

People also love to bring Doomdsay and what Tommy was saying - except, Tommy wasn't saying at all to Techno that he cared only about the disc and that he betrayed Technoblade for that, which is way the phrase "Discs aren't people" (which, by the way, is followed by Tommy saying that they are people too, but go off and don't quote that, I guess...) is very out of context there for Technoblade - because Tommy GAVE UP his discs. He gave up them for L'Manberg and he gave up them for coming back to Tubbo. And that's what he was explaining. Him talking about the discs in that situation is for a different reason than "I want my disc back I am obsessed", but it's the one that the fandom actually got out of it.

"But Tommy wanted to take back the discs later too! He didn't gave them up, then! He was still obsessed!"

He wasn't. The fact that he still cared about sentimental objects that were rightfully his in the first place is no sign for an obsession. The fact that he decides to continue trying to get them is not an obsession - because this time, it's not his only reason. He's not alone. He has other priorities and the discs have now a new meaning.

People say "Tommy and Tubbo could have not tried to get the discs back, could have just let Dream burn them." And while that's right, what then? With the discs destroyed, what would have happened? It would have happened exactly what happened in the Season 2 Finale - in the exact, precise moment Tommy would have REALLY renounced the discs, then Dream would have found ANOTHER excuse. After all in the exact moment Tommy gave up the discs, he took Tubbo's hostage!

Do you believe Tommy to be so ignorant? He and Tubbo were going there for the Discs, sure, but they were going there mostly to end the fight once and for all. To end it. The discs were important, but they also were a narrative excuse both in canon and out of it.

And we go to the season 2 finale. In which, again, Tommy renounce the Discs for Tubbo. And sure, then he grabs them, he asks Tubbo if they could stole them while they were in the vault, but again - people are allowed to care about things, even material things. Unless it is really an obsession, there is nothing wrong with wanting to take back something personal.

Fandom likes to put everything on Tommy's shoulder and the importance of the Discs is one of these thing - except, it was Dream that used them against Tommy, and Tommy put them on the side many times, and was only obsessed with them, and I mean the REAL meaning of the word "obsession", when he was at his lowest - in the post-exile and pre-doomdsay period of thime. They were never as "cursed" of an item as the fandom wants them to be.

And, again, if Tommy had burned the Discs, it would have not solved anything. Dream would have just went on to hurt Tubbo.

#tommyinnit #dsmp #mcyt #dream smp #long post #tw: suicide attempt #tw: suicide #dreamwastaken #tubbo #technoblade #exile arc #c!tommy #sorry for my english

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justalads · 3 years

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c!niki and c!wilbur enjoyers. pspspspspspsps

alright guys so last night i rewatched pretty much all of the pogtopia arc. and this isn’t meant to be a big, important analysis post (it’s kind of incomprehensible), because my brain is fried from, you know. rewatching pretty much all of pogtopia. but i do have some stuff i’d like to say.

(this also just became a niki meta sorry i love her. i really just got emo about her during the second half of this and it got long. i have a lot of feelings about her and wilbur’s friendship.)

it’s a pretty general conclusion that wilbur’s real “downfall” began on october 8th, during the stream “who are you go away”. of course, his spiral and the process of him losing faith had begun much earlier, more around the end of the first war or during the election. but the big switch, so to say, was definitely here, when as wilbur walks back from schlatt’s announcement, he asks tommy if they’re the bad guys.

this entire scene was so interesting to me. wilbur here is a man who has lost hope, someone who is backed into a corner morally and has nothing left. he points out that they can never really reclaim l’manburg without forever tainting it, and that schlatt knows this. the entire half an hour or so before, schlatt has been taunting wilbur about losing that power. the emphasis of the festival on “democracy” is so clearly a barb thrown at wilbur, and it works.

wilbur’s “nothing left to lose” in this vod is a mirror to niki’s “you know what they say about a woman who has nothing left to lose”. this will not be the first time they mirror each other.

basically, wilbur’s angry. when schlatt announced the festival, wilbur realized that maybe it wasn’t a terrible thing. so once he worked around into the mindset of “we’re the bad guys”, he was able to justify saying he was going to blow up the nation with no remorse. he wants chaos! he wants no survivors!

does he do it? god no.

during the streams leading up to november 16th, wilbur is consistently scared. he goes back and forth on it, and makes multiple “conditions” that determine whether he’s going to do it or not, almost begging someone to stop him. he whispers to himself that he’s scared, that his hands are shaking, that he’s not sure if it’s the right thing to do. because despite what he says about “not caring about any of them”, the instant niki is threatened after tubbo’s death, wilbur walks up to schlatt and tells him that if he’s going to kill anyone it should be him. later, when quackity and tommy talk him down from pressing the button, he can’t press it because they’re there and he can’t bring himself to kill them as well.

but he has no problems with putting his own life at risk. he refuses to wear armor half the time, and actively places himself in harm’s way to save others. he still cares about everyone else, as much as he says he doesn’t. even when he does cause harm to others, during november 16th, he immediately begs phil to kill him. “look, they all want you to.” he can’t live with what he’s done, and how he’s hurt people, but he couldn’t allow manburg to continue.

the man is terrified and angry and he can’t win. and even as he tries to stuff himself into the mind of someone who doesn’t care, he cannot. when he finally does, he cannot live with being that person.

but the reason i rewatched this arc was to see niki’s point of view, especially after her statements during her last stream. i genuinely think that wilbur’s only betrayal of her was pressing the button, because he betrayed everyone. they might have known he was going to do it, but they had faith he wouldn’t.

wilbur cared a lot about niki. her life under schlatt was awful, wilbur hated that she was suffering, and the scene where wilbur plants himself directly in the center of the festival and tells schlatt to kill him instead hits pretty hard. he has the argument with schlatt, and then turns to niki and tells her to run. he then hits people and sprints away, trying to give her time to escape.

this is also when he asks her to join pogtopia, because now that schlatt has said he’d kill her, it’s a safer place for her.

so the man did care about her. niki is angry at the memory of him that she has. it’s been twisted by time and her own grief and paranoia.

in rewatching pogtopia, i realized that a lot of people hate the memory of wilbur. not him, and what he did. they think he didn’t care. and to quote hamilton (apologies):

“history obliteratesit paints me in all my mistakes”

does niki have a right to be mad at him? absolutely. he caused direct harm to her by blowing up l’manburg, once it was reclaimed. but she’s wrong that he never cared.

(an interesting note: wilbur only blows it up after techno starts fighting people outside. he hears it, and says “look, they’re fighting”. he didn’t re-initiate the conflict of the country. the fact that even after peace was won people were fighting just gave evidence to his belief that the entire country was corrupted.)

niki has been hurt a lot, and wilbur has things to answer for. but we as the audience know that her statements are just her perception. she is a character who acts on perceptions. the entire stream was in black and white. during doomsday, upon seeing wilbur log on (as ghostbur), niki has a panic attack and destroys her bakery, trying to rid herself of the pain of the memories. her lines during this stream are chilling, whispered repetitions that are a mirror of wilbur’s end.

(paraphrased, it was long and confusing but there are a few bits and this was the essence of it)

“wilbur is gone. this isn’t happening. he is dead. l’manburg is gone.”“it is real, i am real, he is real and he is dead.”“l’manburg is gone, i am real, i am l’manburg”.

(god. dude i could spend Months analyzing this one stream alone. there’s so much here.)

doesn’t that sound a bit like “my unfinished symphony”? wilbur and niki both attach their own self to the nation they fought for, and can see it as an extension of themself. they both destroy parts of it in acts of fear, attempting to save everyone else from what they’ve made.

what i pulled away from niki’s stream is that she’s not healing. i remember the chamber she locks herself in at night. i remember her refusal to eat. i remember how she was so angry at tommy, and she later realized that anger was misguided. niki genuinely believes that wilbur did not care about her, and that’s not surprising: when he died, she denied the fact that he was gone. she represses the things that she can’t handle, same as lots of other people. it is easier for her to pin her hurt on wilbur, because she needs somewhere to pin it. people feel more in control if they’re angry, not sad.

the song cc!niki said was for her character really emphasizes this. it’s a coping mechanism.

but even condemning wilbur won’t help, because she will still never get closure. niki cares about what others think of her, and so she can’t move on from someone hurting her. she can’t move on because she thinks he hated her. she is angry that he is back, but it is an opportunity for her to heal. she couldn’t heal when he was gone. she’s not the only one with a negative perception of wilbur, after all. he has one too. the two of them really need to talk.

i want niki to be healthy and safe. i want to see her heal so badly, and i do think it will happen. after wilbur died, his betrayal of her stayed with her, and it eventually became her memory of the betrayal that she hated, not the thing itself. it’s been months since it happened. niki wants to find an outlet for her hurt, because she wants to feel better. there’s a pattern i noticed: she only gets mad at people once she hasn’t seen the person themself for a while. and once she sees them and talks to them, and realizes that they care about her and don’t want to hurt her, she stops blaming them for it. she only hates her perception of them. example one? tommy.

man was in exile for a long time, and when he came back he “brought” fighting. that’s how niki saw it. but the fact that after she spent time with tommy (trying to kill him but. details, details) she forgave him because she saw it wasn’t his fault is a really good sign.

i genuinely think that speaking to wilbur will help niki, and it will also help wilbur. after all, they both hate wilbur. the entire perception of wilbur as some heartless, crazy manipulator needs to be shattered for both of their sakes. they both buy into it.

i want niki to know that others care about her, and that she has places she can feel safe. she hates that wilbur is invading the syndicate, because she’s scared of his memory hurting her. i don’t think wilbur will hurt her on purpose, because even though he sees himself as awful, he doesn’t hate her. he never did. usually, with people who have hurt someone else, i want them as far away from the person they hurt as possible. if wilbur does hurt niki i’ll probably cry. but again, it’s not him that hated her, or really him that hurt her in the way she thinks he did. when wilbur was dead, niki didn’t get any better. her memory of him festered and made her feel worse. that’s also why niki killing wilbur or hurting him somehow wouldn’t help her heal. i want wilbur to explain that he didn’t hate her. is wilbur even close to self aware enough to help niki? nah. this is going to take a Long time, and it’s going to hurt.

last thing i swear lol

during niki’s stream, she says that wilbur manipulated her. again, i watched pogtopia last night, and i’ve watched the rest of season one recently as well. i genuinely don’t see it. but i do think i know why she said it.

during season one, wilbur doesn’t manipulate niki. he doesn’t have a chance to later, he’s dead. so then, what is she talking about? of course it’s a perception, same as a lot of her other claims. i think she’s talking about how she cared for l’manburg.

niki joined the server as wilbur’s friend, to join his nation. she grew to care for l’manburg. she devoted herself to it, same as he did. but doomsday showed us that she hates that. in niki’s eyes, l’manburg only brought pain for people, and because she ties herself to it, she hates that she ever cared about it. she can’t allow herself to care for it, because it was used to hurt. so how does she cope with knowing that she once did? she pretends she didn’t.

if she can convince herself that it was wilbur who convinced her to care about l’manburg, she can avoid blaming herself for her own pain. and yeah, she shouldn’t blame herself for it. it’s not her fault. the entire situation is tragic and a little hopeless and once again really makes me hope that she recovers. l’manburg was ruined for her by others. schlatt, techno, dream, wilbur. again another place where she and wilbur are similar: they convince themselves they never cared about l’manburg because of the hurt it caused.

to summarize: wilbur’s going to get a shock soon. don’t know when, but probably the prison visit. something is going to shake his perception, the story is hurtling towards that. once he is able to take responsibility for what he did, and feel safe (because a lot of what he does now is out of fear of being alone or useless), then he and niki need to talk. niki needs something to get her out of her own head. she’s spiraling too. they are essential to each other’s recovery because of how much they meant (and mean) to each other.

anyways i miss early season one niki i liked it when she was happy :(

~ Lad 2

#wilbur #c!wilbur #niki #c!niki #dreamsmp #dsmp #mcyt #rp #long post #dreamsmp analysis #dsmp analysis #revivedbur #pogtopia #lad speaks

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grace13star · 3 years

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In canon, c!Wilbur was a depressed, paranoid, self-destructive, and suicidal man who, in trying to protect the people he cared about, did the wrong thing for the right reason. So why has fanon turned him into some irredeemable villain?

I think it has a lot to do with how this fandom views morality- and it's not just a Wilbur problem. Every time a character makes a questionable choice, chat spams "VILLAIN ARC!!!" and hundreds of theories pop up about how this character is bad, actually. It goes as far as fans blatantly ignoring canon in order to justify their "evilness." For instance, despite cc!Phil stating multiple times that his character is not related to c!Tommy in any way, people still use his treatment of Tommy to call him a bad person and dad. C!Puffy is not canonically c!Dream's mother, but people still use their out-of-canon joke as a way to call Puffy a bad person and say she "abandoned" c!Dream.

c!Wilbur canonically blew up L'Manberg in a misguided attempt to protect the people he cares about. But since he did a bad thing and called himself a villain, he must be evil for evil's sake. Some people even go so far as saying he "must have been evil all along" and they go back to watch the original vods and take jokes and lines out of context in order to say he was evil. Despite saying he lies all the time, they take his words at face value, thinking that since he said he's a villain that he must be, despite all his actions towards getting rid of said "villain". Guys, he literally killed himself to get rid of the thing he thought was hurting everybody. He saw how the power L'Manberg had was corrupting people and he knew how bad it could get, and his solution was to get rid of it. When c!Tubbo rebuilt L'Manberg, he was proven right when c!Dream used the power against Tubbo in order to force him to exile c!Tommy. This isn't an excuse for any harm he did cause, but only a defense for him being called evil or a villain, when his intentions and motivations are good.

It's interesting to see how the fandom switches up with characters. While some of them become irredeemable villains, the other half become innocents who can do no wrong.

For example, c!Niki literally tried to kill Tommy with a nuke, but because she stopped trying to kill him, she's good now. Ranboo has also confirmed that his "Enderwalk" self is just himself with all his memories, and he helped Dream. But because he can't remember it, he must be good. Techno helped blow up L'Manberg two times and he isn't called a villain nearly as much as Wilbur is, despite him actively going out of his way to hurt and kill people both times.

Even Dream is given way too much credit. Despite all evidence to the contrary, fans and apologists make up backstories and reasons for why child abuse is okay, actually (/s), and he was called a villain a few times which means the only acceptable response is war...I guess?

Guys, there's this thing called gray morality. It means that people can do bad things and still be good people, and it means that people can do good things and still be bad people, and it means that not everything is black and white. No one is entirely evil. No one is entirely good. If you're gonna analyse a character don't make things up, don't make them worse than they actually are, use actual evidence, and for the love of god, know what the words you use mean. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people call something manipulative and then it's just two people having a normal conversation. When you're analyzing a piece of media, especially one like DSMP where there are many perspectives, you can't only watch one and make definitive statements about a character. Erasing nuance and basically the entire character in order to make them "evil bad man villain" ruins what is so great about this story.

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jackassbroadcast · 3 years

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Hello im a Tommy enthusiast who watched that one stream where he monologued to foolish for like hafe an hour bc i heard it was a cool stream or wtv to realize how much amazing character moments it had that barly anyone in this damn fandom is talking about so ill fucking do it

(Only after finishing this i realized i wrote 1.7k words LOL OOPS)

If u dont know what in talking about its this stream (apologies for linking a clips channel the actual vod on foolish's channel is deleted by now)

Also heads up /rp /dsmp every time i refer to someone here by name is their character unless stated otherwise bc writing c! Before every name Is tiring LOL

Also // suicidal idealization , death mentions

The conversation starts off with foolish and tommy mining for Wilbur, and foolish questions how simply mining will solve the problem to which Tommy reponds with "they dont get solved, do they? It just ends uo with some madman screaming 'Hes solved it!' And now look at him." And how he wants to "prevent the problem before it goes outta hand" something that clearly references Wilbur and his destruction of lmanburg, which paired with him collecting stone for Wilbur as the way to stop said problems he believes if he does anything he can for Wilbur and support him by his side enough this time around, that he wont do anything like thay again, which as im writing this makes be realize by doing that we learn hes blaming himself for what happened to Wilbur in November 16th and pogtopia and a whole, by not being enough for Wilbur in his mind.

The conversation continues, foolish off hand asks why would tommy want to stop Wilbur? Weren't they friends at some point? To which tommy leads foolish to lmanburg and tells him the story of the nation (how it was him and Wilbur's nation, how they made it to espace dream's iron fist and how they held an election "which puts your life on the line, which is good- if you're confident but- perhaps we were too confident", how they lost)

Tommy: "You know the phrase: 'treat other how you wanna be treated', foolish? People dont ever listen to it. Wilbur- he decided he wanted to be treated poorly so he treated everyone around him poorly "

This Tommy quote, to me at least, so so amazingly strong in conveying how understanding he is? To the world around him. Like-

I have not seen one person bring this quote up, and yet its (at least to me) shows such growth and understanding in Tommy i saw little to nothing like it in other streams. It shows he understands, he knew Wilbur didnt change just because, he knows he was struggling, that he thought everyone around him were againt him, were going to abandon him the first chance theyll get- and he thought he deserved it. So he, as a last way to defend himself against that, hurt them first, abandoned them first, so theyll see how much of a 'bad' person he was and take him out- and tommy saw right through that, possibly understanding it more after exile.

This next qoute was talked about much more but i still wanna bring it up

Foolish: "Do you believe in second chances?"

Tommy: "Oh, no I don't really believe that its not really a thing for me foolish its just that-" *sigh* "- i believe everyone has a little bit of good in then and this is not about giving him a second chance or a third chance- its not about *chances* foolish. Its about not giving up on the poeple you care about. "

Which. I mean. I dont know how healthy that mindset is, but comign from Tommy it makes so much sense.

Techno, tubbo, eret, sapnap. These are all people Tommy used to be extremely close to, had either a war or had been betrayed by them, and yet still found it in his heart that he still cares for them, with all of these, they did horrendous things, that hurt tommy physically and mentally, while also not being once or twice, but a contentious thing, but while tommy is to this day still effected by their actions he still found it in himself to forgive, because he knows he fucked up too, a lot, and he knoes they learned from their mistakes just as he had (except c!techno FUCKKK c!techno mf doesnt learn SHITTT) and he knows, when the time comes he knows hed want the people he hurt to forgive him too. (And he wants Wilbur to do the same)

Next qoute i will cut to a couple parts because its really so good and full of character i had to bro

Foolish: "Do you consider yourself to be the good guy or the bad guy?"

Tommy: "It really depends who you ask, isn't it? Yknow? If you asked dream he'd say im *his little toy that he plays with* you know? It doesnt.."

This part really stunned me when i first heard it because, and correct me If im wrong, but i dont think tommy ever acknowledged how dream sees him, and how right he has his viewpoint too. Just the fact tommy is so *painfully* aware of how dream doesnt even see him as a person anymore but just a toy to mess around with for a while than just throw it away when it get too boring really hurt me. Someone give this kid a hug

(Continued) Tommy: "...foolish, honestly? I used to consider myself 'the good guy', you know? The fuckin'- second in command! But these past- these past like six months or so, foolish, everything got so much harder than it was before. Because before it was just us vs bad guys, it was all so clear! But- its not been 'clear' for so long, right? It wasn't; 'these are the bad guys! These are the good guys!' Now it's : 'he's doing this and it makes him a bit worse-' i mean, it all got so complicated, so- i don't know. Depends who you ask."

He says this, in response to foolish asking if hes a good guy- but its awfully similar to if Wilbur asked him if they were the bad guys. Because foolish just asked about him, and yet in his answer tommy made sure to keep using the words "us, he's, guys" as if hes not really talking about himself, as if hes explaining how Wilbur was wrong. Which he was. Also something interesting ive noticed, he says "the last 6 months or so", which indicated that with Wilbur he knew better to follow his word and leadership- with Wilbur he was always on the right side but when he lost him he felt much more lost alone, and couldn't trust himself enough to be on the "right side" .

Foolish: "I dont know, it all seems strange because just from, you know- hearing from others and, you know, learing a little bit, its seems like you've been the hero, you've been the villain, the conqueror, the savior, and, even now, i have no idea what you exactly are."

Tommy: "that's up to you to decide, isn't it? Im just- *uh* i dont know. These days, foolish, I'm a little weaker than i used to be"

Foolish couldn't be more right with what he said, another example of this we see where a character acknowledges tommy never sticks to one thing us Charlie when calling him "tommy fron nowhere" which shows more how he cant stick to one thing, during the course of him on the server he had been friends and enemy with nearly everyone, been on pretty much all sides, and while never really intentionally, being in the center of conflict. When foolish says he doesnt know who tommy is anymroe at this point and all Tommy says in return is that "hes a little weaker than he used to be" does to show he misses who he used to be, with lmanburg, with Wilbur, when he knew who he was, now he doesn't know who he is anymore, but still so desperately want to be more demonstrated by the lines coming rigth after that one:

(Continued) Tommy: "..I'm not- I'm now who i want to be, but-"

Foolish: "Being honest with you, Tommy, that's the same case for me as well."

Tommy: "...heres the thing, foolish, unlike you i dont really have a choice. I have to try and be who i want to be, because if i dont, very bad things are gonna happen in this server. And now that Wilbur's back i can't- quite frankly *no one* can risk that. So i dont really have a choice."

Tommy want's to change- he wants to be better than he is now, to be closer to who he used to be, no matter how impossible that might be, but he also sees it as an immediate thing, he wants to change now, or asap, which is why hes collecting stone for Wilbur in the first place- old him would've done that with ease just because Wilbur asked and he wants to have that back so badly, asap. The way he talked about this reminded me of when he tried getting over his trauma stream before he went in the prison to kill dream: he knew he wasnt the best but he tried getting over that asap to go kill dream asap. He didnt wanna take the long road of years of healing and instead thought he could get over it just like that, and that experience clearly didnt teach him anything because now hes trying to slide back to the relationship he and Wilbur used to have and ignoring the drastic changes they both had plus the bad moments that were the reason they feel out in the first place, or maybe he knows, but at this point, after everything that happened to him and the server, he doesnt care anymore? He knows hes not the same he was and he'll never be the same, because thats not how it works, but his mentor, president, big brother is back after so long tommy felt so lost and alone he thinks maybe, this time around, with Wilbur, he could try and be better again.

#mcyt #dream smp #dsmp #dreamsmp #tommyinnit #mcyt foolish #dsmp foolish #dsmp tommy #analysis #character analysis #tommyinnit analysis #dsmp analysis #analysis post #long post #long

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stellocchia · 3 years

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This is part 2 of the comprehensive analysis of c!Tommy and c!Dream’s relationship during the Exile Arc

Part 1

So, initially I was thinking of making only one post with only the important quotes from this streams but... yeah, not saying what I think about stuff is not in my blood. So now I’m stuck with this and I’m determined to finish it!

Once again, it’s all about the characters from here on out and I will be mentioning serious themes of abuse and gaslighting, so keep that in mind.

We’re starting this one off with the second proper exile stream: Tommy Is Getting So Much Worse in Exile...

Mushroom Henry is introduced at the beginning of this vod. Initially Tommy doesn’t like him, believing him to be a poor replacement of the real Henry. He then goes towards Tnret and finds it compromised as Lazarbeam had planted some tnt under it the day before during a visit with Vikstar and Technoblade (now, how much of that visit was canon? No one knows! But the tnt part definitely was). Also to be noted that Tommy already stopped fighting back against mobs, which is already rather worrying.

Anyway, this is the stream where Tommy makes an enderchest with Fundy and Ranboo, so I will only write down some of the most notable quotes, and keep it rather brief. It is to be noted that Tommy’s depression at this point had already gotten worse as in the Nether time and time again he avoids doing the haybell mlg instead taking the full fall damage, he defends himself less and he’s already expressing feelings of loneliness. Also, he is now on the first stage of the exile skin set.

“Because if we can’t stay motivated then- then we won’t have anything to do (...) we’re gonna work out how to Keep Doing Things and not... sit around crying” (he has the need to keep busy to stave off loneliness)

“Now everyone, if you should know, we’re gonna go bach and reclaim everything at some point and kill Dream” (talking to chat)

“Music! It’s like a person but they’re not here!” (about Chirp)

“This is like, you know when you fall over? Or you know- or you know when one of your pets die? At school? And then all of a sudden you’re at school and you’re upset and all the people who are usually assholes to you start being nice all of a sudden. This is that!”

This was quite interesting, so I want to talk about it briefly: but this is Tommy’s general mentality. He sees anyone trying to help him or giving him things as just pity from people who don’t actually care nor necessarily even like him. Basically, he feels betrayed and alone and doesn’t actually think that any of this people could possibly care. This however doesn’t seem like a mentality that’s born from exile (since he’s had it since the very beginning of exile) and we don’t actually know where it generated from. Though it could possibly be from the fact that he always had to be very independent since he had to fight in quite a few wars and even take the leading position in the Pogtopia times.

Other note: this is when Ranboo starts leaving letters for Tommy (You can find Tommy and Ranboo's mail exchanges here). At the beginning the chest they used to exchange them was situated on the Nether side of the original portal, which was a ruined portal a bit further away from Tommy’s camp. Also Tommy dies in lava (not canonically) a ton of times in this one and Fundy every times gives him some of his stuff to pretend like nothing got burned (which was kinda adorable).

“Fundy why didn’t you come with me when I got exiled? I was meaning to ask you. ‘Cause no-one came with me” “No-one came with you because it was- *sigh* Tommy I don’t know! It was- it was a shock to all of us” “You could have came with- yeah, but you just let me go. You just let go on me Fundy” “And- and just leave L’Manburg to Tubbo himself? Like all alone?” “No he would have had like literally everyone else on this server” “Like who?” (I just found this exchange interesting)

“I don’t think you’ll like it but Dream is uh, kind of proud of Tubbo. He- he’s actually acknowledging L’Manburg as a new country now” (and this is what the other side of the manipulation looked like from the outside)

“Wait wait! I could talk to the narrator! Then I’d finally have a friend!” (proceeds to start talking to the narrator)

“No no no. No no no Ranboo. Stop- stop complaining. Stop being weird Ranboo. You should be honoured to have a friend that’s close enough that he shoots you” “I don’t think that’s a ‘friend’, I think that’s just an assassin” (Ranboo with the common sense)

“This is where I used to live and then Dream tore it down” “Why did Dream tear it down?” “*sigh* I don’t know”

"Look guys: this is the song of a female astronaut named Clara” (about Chirp)

The vod ends with Tommy and Ghostbur’s attempt at saving Lazarbeam from lava and Ghostbur gifting Tommy the “Your Tubbo” compass.

Moving on: Tommy Is So Lonely in Exile with Dream

This is actually the first stream where Tommy starts off drowning (and he actually dies, yet again, non canonically). Also Puffy gifts him some blue wool, 3 diamonds and his own Christmas tree, specifying that it’s not out of pity so he actually accepts the present.

“We’ve got some things to do. I’m still feeling um... I’m not feeling I AM very very very alone. Just- just so- just lonely all of the time... which isn’t, you know? Isn’t okay. I don’t know why I was at the bottom of the ocean just holding a bone”

Now, a bit to unpack here. In real time by now it had been 3-4 days technically, but in rp it has been specified already multiple times that it had been quite a few days since Tommy got exiled and we don’t really have any reason to believe that he received any more visits then what we’ve seen. Which probably increased his loneliness. Also we don’t have an actual explaination for him waking up drowning, my best guess for it is a mix of him being suicidal and general depression making it hard to get any proper rest (which we know was the case for him since he did mention at one point that he “didn’t sleep anymore”) which could have caused him to start sleepwalking since both “not getting enough sleep” and “stress and anxiety” are listed as causes of it. Now the actual subconcious reason as to why he was going in the sea and letting himself drown is unknown but, again, he was suicidal while in exile.

Also “How to Sex 2″ got burned by Ghostbur, not volountarily of course, he just had it on him when he died in lava.

“I’m too lonely to be angry now, alright? We got to appreciate all the friends that we can get” (about Lazarbeam bringing him a present)

“The compass is nice though! We’ve got a compass that always will point to Tubbo... not that- not that he’d care” (beginning of the doubts about his old friends)

“Tubbo has one too? [referring to the compass] Oh he’ll just- if he’s got one he’s just using it for show... he’s- I’ve accepted that he’s the president now and I’m just- I’m just that guy he had to exile to show how powerful he was” (again, doubts)

Also Tommy makes his first path to Logstedshire in this stream. He also takes a liking to Mushroom Henry here after figuring out he could produce mushroom soup, meaning he actually had a sustainable source of food instead of having to relay mostly on handouts.

“Guys we need some more coal” *Dream joins the game* “...ooooooh no please don’t come and visit me. Please please please” (I’m leaving this here, I believe this reaction speaks for itself)

“Hey! I’m- I’m above right now by the pretty Christmas tree that there is here” “Why are you here?” “I’m visiting you!” “Last time you said that you ruined me” “I- How did I ruin you?” “*sigh* Hi Dream!” “Hello~” “What have you- what” “Where are you at?” “I’m just com- why are you here? Every time you’ve been here you’ve done something destructive” “I- I what- I haven’t done anything destructive... everything’s been fine! I haven’t destroyed anything”

At the time there were a lot of people who were hesitant at calling Dream’s manipulation “gaslighting”, as that is a precise type of manipulation, but this right here? This is an example of gaslighting. Dream destroyed everything Tommy had every time he visited him and they both know this, still what Dream is trying to do here is convince Tommy that that never happened to keep up his friendly facade. Just because he isn’t saying directly “you can’t trust what you remember” doesn’t mean that that’s not exactly what he is implying. To reiterate this point they meet up right after and Dream, once again, blows up Tommy’s armour and diamond sword:

“Hello~ take your armour off” “Why should I take my armour off?” “Um, drop it down here” “No, no! I worked really hard to get this. No!” “Okay... you can get it again!” “No! See this is what I told you about, that you’re destructive to me” “Tommy I’m not destructive... but, listen, you gotta drop it” (...) “No, no! I’m a rebellious teenager. I don’t listen to green punks” *Dream hits Tommy with an axe* “*screams* Okay okay okay okay okay”

Again, Dream hitting Tommy in this case is portrayed as physical abuse. And then Dream goes back to acting as if nothing ever happened, going on to talk about his day, telling Tommy that he knows about the 2 compasses and telling him that Tubbo went over while Tommy wasn’t there and that he is free to visit Tommy, he just hasn’t done it yet (all of this are actually true, but the implication that Tubbo didn’t want to see Tommy obviously isn’t).

“Dream, I think I’ve realized why no-one’s came to see me” “Why’s that?” “It’s because- it’s because there is not an easy way to get to me and I’m gonna make an easy way to get to me today” “I mean, if you boat here, it took me 2 minutes” “No no-one wants to use the boat, it’s too far- it’s too far for people” “Oh you know what Tommy? I’ll do you a favour”

This is when Dream moves Tommy’s portal. Now, one thing that I want to point out is that Dream had already intercepted Ranboo’s and Tommy’s first mail book (we know this because in Ranboo’s message at the beginning of this stream he said that the first one disappeared) so he probably knew that Ranboo was using the secrecy of the further away portal to communicate with Tommy undetected. Of course Dream can’t have that, though he probably didn’t account for Ranboo not giving up that easily.

“Well it’s very awkward considering you exiled me and- and have banished me from being around all of my friends and now are trying to side with me it’s kinda-” “Tommy what’d you mean from all your friends? I’m your friend!” “Yeah... yeah you are” “I am your friend Tommy~” “Yeah I- Yeeeeeah, Dream” (just to clarify: Tommy is not agreeing with Dream here, he is being sarcastic. Also Dream starts harping a bit more on this point from here on out)

“Oh I just witnessed another suicide...” (second time this happens, the first was in the last vod, and he stays staring at the lava for a moment)

Tommy once again trying to push Dream into lava (again similarly to how he did in the first proper exile stream) and Dream just goes along with it (mostly just to flex about how that can’t actually kill him). I consider this couple of times as the first times Tommy started lashing out in exile.

“Health and safety is important Dream! *staring at lava* Is it though?” “Yes, yes it’s important Tommy. It’s not your time to die”

“And then you’re coming over here giving me shit and also burning my shit. You’re just- you’re just a monster” “I didn’t burn any of your shit” “You blew it up! You exploded it! Man you’re ruining my life...” “I blew it up, I didn’t burn it though” (because that makes all the difference of course...)

“Hey man I could jump and you’d be able to do nothing about it and I’d- I’d be done-zo” “I- I ask you please not to” “Okay” “I need you alive and well”

Now I found this interesting when first watching as well, but Dream really did spell it out for us that he actually needed Tommy, huh? Like, in retrospect, what Dream then intended to do in the Season 2 Finale seemed kind of obvious. Also after that They have a discussion about the enderchest, but Tommy gets to keep it. Also Ranboo appears at the portal, though Dream doesn’t manage to see who it is and Ranboo manages to escape before he sees (thanks in part to Tommy distracting Dream). Now I want to point out that, even if outwardly people had the permission to visit Tommy, the fact that everyone was so scared about Dream finding out about it talks volume about how clear that was. Also this is when Dream gives Tommy the general direction of Technoblade’s cabin.

“Look at us go... hey why don’t you just un-exile me, you know? You know?” “*laughs* Well I think that I- I- I think that maybe there is a possibility at least in the- in the future that you could- you could- you know? Get a visitor’s pass...” (notice that he only confirmed a possibility for a visitor’s pass, not for actually going back, Dream literally never meant for Tommy to go back permanently)

Lazarbeam arrives to visit Tommy at this point to gift him Far and a fire resistence potion.

“See I told you! It was because I didn’t have a bridge that nobody was coming to visit me Dream! It wasn’t because it was me” “Yeah it must be...”

“Hey Dream come and listen to this man! [talking about Far]” “I-I’m-” “Hey, promise you won’t- If I get a new disc you wouldn’t mind would you?” “No I wouldn’t” “Okay, come and listen. I trust you now, now we’ve bonded” (Is this the second time Tommy invites Dream to listen to a disc with him?)

At this point Dream pressures Lazarbeam to mug Tommy with him and the whole scene is just pretty weird, but it boils down to Dream blowing Tommy’s armour up (again), while also hitting him a bit more when he doesn’t immediately comply (basically making this humiliating and making Tommy understand that he is not any safer with someone else there). Though Tommy does end up lashing out and killing Lazarbeam (not canonically) and Dream destroys his enderchest in retaliation. After that Tommy does become more submissive, not wanting to get killed. Now I want to point out that that same day Dream had agreed that Tommy could keep his enderchest without any conditions to it, but, of course, Dream’s rules are constantly changing. Dream does leave after that for a bit.

“I put your enderchest back by the way Tommy” “Really?” “Yeah. I just wanted to prevent you from putting his armour in there so... that’s why I broke it” “Thank you! Thank you” “You’re welcome”

Wanna know why this is bullshit? Tommy didn’t even try to go towards the enderchest when he had Lazarbeam’s armour and immediately gave it up at Dream’s request. This is just Dream giving Tommy a “reward” for being compliant after punishing him. Also pointing out the fact that Tommy felt compelled to thank Dream even if Dream was the one who caused the issue he just fixed in the first place. Also Connor arrives as well.

“Yeah you can’t move into my home Connor” “Well I mean, of course he can because it’s not your home because you’re not going back” “What do you mean I’m not going back?” “Well as I said maybe potentially you could get a visitors pass” (reiterating a point from the start)

“Tubbo- Tubbo said that! Tubbo said it [the server] looked so much better since Tommy left. And I was like ‘wait what?’ and he’s like: ‘yeah it could be a coincidence though but I don’t think so'” (you manipulative green bastard)

“I don’t know if you know this but I’ve been constructing a- a uh- a prison and it is ginormous so...” (I did not remember Dream mentioning the prison this early on)

Anyway, the stream ends with Dream stripping for primes and since I need it, I decided that that’s canon.

#dreamwastaken #tommyinnit #fundy #ranboo #dream smp #relationship analysis #character analysis #exile arc #tw manipulation #tw abuse #tw suicide #long post #my post #there was a point when tommy threatened to become a cannibal if dream didn't leave him alone #and dream said 'that's fine by me quackity ate schlatt's heart anyway #what the hell am I watching?#why am I doing this?

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asimpforthedreamteamsmpers · 3 years

Text

We Love A Pre-Planner- (ft. TommyInnit and RanbooLive):

MotherInnit: *calls*

TI: “...This makes no sense- I did all the chores.”

RB: “It’s the dishwasher again.”

TI: “Actually- I did it before the stream, on purpose, to make sure it WASN’T the dishwasher again.”

#VOD: Tommy Is Getting So Much Worse in Exile...#Dream Team SMP #Dream SMP #TommyInnit #MotherInnit #RanbooLive #Ranboo #Lmanberg #Lmanburg #Logstedshire #Logsted #MCYT #MCYT Quotes #Gaming #Quotes

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sapphire-innit · 3 years

Text

Ranboo my Beloved please help this Kid please

VOD: TommyInnit Is Actually Depressed in Exile

(rp) Well that title can only mean Good and Wholesome things right??? Everything's going to be fine and dandy RIGHT?????????

.....

yeah ok I'm ready to have my heart torn out again lets fucking do this

he's drowning again :(

"its ok though because its Dream. And hes great. H-hes cool" I have never heard Tommy sound more defeated :'(

[irt the Tubbo statue] Welp this isn't going to go over well

OH WOW THAT SKIN SHIT. he looks real fucked up ohnoooo. His eyes are greyer and hes got Visible Bags under them D: also his hair is messed up too :(

"we didn't do this out of pity" have lost their magic words huh oof

"if Tubbo wanted to be here he could, and he's chosen not to" :( :( :( this WHOLE SPEECH is painful and raw

Tommy is so angry and I wish he was ABLE to direct it at dream but man, I get it. Hard to watch him tear down the Tubbo statue though

.....also side note did BBH and Puffy build this while eggified that's wild lol

:( Fundy and Ranboo came to say hi. So did Philza. ahhhhhh, fucking hell :(

"Its been weeks" canonizing the longer timeline

Ghostbur ... that hits different now ;-; ;-; ;-;

I miss him already fuck

Tommy still not eating.. :(

adsfdfsf the fuckign... girlfriend bit what even is this

RANBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

He's so sneaky and clever ahhh he hid the book!! fuck Dream took the last book and then he hid it too well lol

well that got depressing quick ;-;

Tommy really is so communicative he tries so so much I hate that no one seems to listen

"and he never would have gotten [exiled]" Tommy it wasn't your faaaullt

and they're trying too but he doesn't know how much Dream is intimidating them to stay away :(

shit he STILL hasn't eaten. Hes not putting on his armor either :(

I do NOT like the vibes on this "screaming station" .... seems fucked up

"the sun reminds me of a happier time, the sunset reminds me of my bench" THE SUN IS HOPE :(

and hes turning down primes

whoever suggested making a chair a "one person bench" omg adwsfdf

still hasn't e a t e n

lol always time to make fun of bbh and skeppy lol

.... a screaming station in the nether seems like an even worse idea than one over the ocean

Jack Manifold! I hear you fucking hate Tommy later!! and I have no idea why!! IS THIS IT

Fucking hell HOW IS THIS CANON

.........wow this sure is the WORST time Jack could have visited. FUCK

...he was even going to throw him a fire res Fuck

I still can't believe that was canonically Jack's last life what the fuck I can't believe that was the start of the Team Rocket arc

...he DID apologize, fuck fuck fuck

Jack and Tommy really talking past each other, this SUCKS so much like he could not have had WORSE TIMING and I wish it hadn't ended in a fucking, DEATH because I don't think Tommy ever meant to go that far at all, like, fuck man

(I know people are pretty sympathetic to Jack and all, and sure that sucked but also I'M HERE FOR MY BOY TOMMY RIGHT NOW OK)

....half a heart and still not fucking E a t i n g

running around the nether with half a heart. Building out over lava. Mans committed to the bit

................I knew it had bad vibes

FINALLY EATING!! Jesus that ghast lol

"why would he spawn there???" TOMMY THAT'S HOW MINECRAFT WORKS TOMMY adswfsdfsd

"I'm just a fucking tourist hub now" Exiles really done a number on him in a Multitude of ways

I knew that party was gonna do a number on him but man is it hard to see.

....I'm glad Ranboo's efforts have been appreciated a little bit. Its good to have SOMEONE other than Dream that Tommy's not cutting off

GOD the zoom in on the lava. Rough.

Hes tearing down the path too. He's physically and mentally isolating himself, which is ... harshly true to life

"Happy place / Theyre all happy / Its not quiet / Its just happy" Tommy writes the most Devastating Shit. Like first it was the Ranboo mail and now the sign, fuck. Its like any chance he gets to type, it just all comes spilling out, he can't help it

"Have I ever been the villain? ...(small depressed smirk)...probably" :( :( :( this is absolutely Dream's victim blaming working and everyone who dog-piled him about the walls and shit and fucking hell man, no

...the little interaction with Ranboo was a breath of fresh air, my beloved...

Wait what happened to the fake gf???

I do feel like its actually really good that Tommy managed to let ONE person through a little bit, and not brush him off out of pity. Its not enough rn but I feel like any outside connection is good for him right now.

It also does feel like it is because Ranboo kept trying even when he ran into difficulty. Its ALSO because of luck no doubt, and he managed to hit just the right vibes to not be 'pitying' because others DID try multiple times, but it couldn't have happened at all if he hadn't been so persistent with his mail either

I also noticed Ranboo questioned the "Dream and you are my only friends" line, which I appreciate

THE CHEST ROOM. FUCK. Well I know how THIS ends D:

"I owe everything to Dream, he comes and sees me and he gives me armor sometimes, and he makes me happier and he gives me a trident" . . . we're in the thick of it now huh

I LOVE THAT RANBOO SPEAKS SOME SENSE HERE THANK YOU. like Tommy's not in a place to hear it Right NOW, but I still appreciate it. He's very good at that (though he still has the backbone of a chocolate eclair lmao. Though maybe that's also why he didn't set off Tommy either)

He almost told him about the armor destruction and my heart hurts

"I'm gonna make it out of Cobblestone, because its my favorite block, it was. It is I think" :(

Ranboo really planning to run for president and help this kid get the FUCK out of exile

ALSO He's trying to clear up the compass thing, hes trying so hard. Tommy's not really in a place to hear it, but I'm glad it was said

......JACK. Hes coming in for a BIT and its just. He's bouncing off of Tommy so hard adfdf I can see how he becomes Team Rocket but also I hate that this friendship turned into hatred

asdfssfd don't ask Ranboo to STRIPE omg

why ARE there so many portals??

...."he takes shit from me" he told him :( I'm so glad he told him but fuck I wish Ranboo could help in some way. Too often you can't and you just gotta work with what you can do but at least he told him :(

"anyone can die Ranboo even me" there's that suicidal idealization! :(

"Its because they don't care Ranboo. Everyone who you think cares, probably doesn't"

GODDD cc!Tommy is a good actor though shit, the YELLING about the party I'M

Tommy is so communicative even now, hes trying to tell Ranboo and talk about it and I wish it made a difference

...he was triggered when Ranboo fought the mobs for him :( he sighed and it hurt :(

...he was testing him for pity with the pickaxe wasn't he, fuck

afdsfdsffs the MCC TOURNEMENT SDSFDSF

oh no tommy hes part enderman don't put him in water afdsfdf

..........................

AFDSFDSF THE LAVA OH NO ADFDSF HOW DOES HE KEEP DYING THIS WAY

......

........

back in serious mode I see.

Ranboo talking him off the literal edge, fuck

"Its never gonna end" oh Tommy... :(

#dream smp #dream smp liveblog #dsmp exile arc #tommyinnit #ranboo #jack manifold #abuse tw #suicide tw #depression tw

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findingjoynweirdstuff · 3 years

Text

Dream SMP Recap (February 21/2021) - Tommy’s Visit, Guard Training Day

It’s the day for Tommy’s final prison visit, one last visit to see Dream and gain closure. Things don’t go exactly to plan, though, and the situation takes a turn for the worse...

Jack Manifold and Quackity discuss business plans, Eret returns to start collecting taxes, and Sam decides it’s about time to get some helping hands, getting Bad and Antfrost on the job.

A summary of the week’s total events can be found at the end of the post.

---

VOD LINKS:

Foolish

HBomb94

Tommy

Tommy (Again)

Jack Manifold

Eret

Awesamdude

Foolish (Again)

Ranboo

---

- Foolish works on building HBomb a giant mansion in the savannah village.

- HBomb and Niki build a Bellsprout Pokemon head attached to Ponk’s tree in Lemon City.

--- Tommy’s Prison Visit ---

- Tommy comes online to visit Dream one last time in prison, for closure. Even though Dream is locked up and out of sight, he still feels miserable, a little bit empty.

“I think it’s because I haven’t shut the book. He’s still in my life, y’know?”

- He heads over to the prison. He is greeted by photos of BBH and Rat. The pictures George put on the entrance are still there.

- Tommy comes through to the lobby and greets Sam. Sam asks the questions.

“When was the last time you visited the prison?”

“A bit ago...like a while back. A month. A month ago.”

“Where is your place of residence currently located?”

“My home over there, down yonder. The hotel. The Big Innit Hotel, Sam.”

“Do you believe that the prisoner is deserving of being locked up?”

“Yes, yeah, I absolutely do. I think he’s a wrongen. I don’t think he deserves death, though. I should make that very clear. I don’t think he deserves death.”

“What are your prior relations with the prisoner?”

“I think he’s a bastard, he’s ugly, and um...I’d say...We manipulated one another. He...he manipulated me, kind of a bit of the villain, kind of an evil guy, kind of the ‘Dr. Octopus’ of the Dream SMP universe.”

- Tommy puts his items in the locker and they go through.

- Tommy comments on how every traumatic place he’s been in has been made of blackstone.

- Tommy doesn’t need to see Dream, “Unless one of my close friends dies...”

- They make it to the lava wall. The lava descends, and Tommy enters the cell.

- They greet each other. Dream’s lost his clock since the last time Tommy visited, and Tommy cracks a joke.

Dream: “That’s the Tommy I know...”

Dream throws Tommy some potatoes to regen health.

- Dream says he’s happy that Tommy came to visit. It’s been a while. Tommy tells him that it’s his last time visiting. Dream asks why, and insists that he’ll get out eventually.

- Tommy asks about the crying obsidian. Dream explains that it’s a security measure, and he likes to watch it drip.

- Tommy says it’s his last visit again, and the conversation grows more tense as they argue about exile, and Tommy says that he can’t even go into plains biomes now without trembling.

- Tommy then asks about the books he asked Dream to write, to which Dream replies that he burned them.

- Tommy opens the chest and sees the thank you letters. Tommy asks if Dream knows anything about the Egg. Dream doesn’t know much about it.

- The subject of it being Tommy’s final visit comes up again, and Tommy tells Dream that he doesn’t want him in his life anymore, that he ruined L’manburg and almost killed Tubbo.

Dream: “I did bad things, but...everybody thinks they’re right from their perspective.”

Tommy: “That’s not true. That’s not true!”

Dream: “I think I’m right. I did bad things but I did them for good reasons, but I’ve learned, I’ve...I did bad things and I’ve learned that I shouldn’t have done them.”

Tommy: “What good reasons? No, please, enlighten us.”

Dream: “I just wanted a...I just wanted to bring the server together, have it be...a happy family, y’know?”

Tommy: “Bring the server t-- you f-- Dream, you blew up L’manburg, Dream. You tried killing me! You tried killing everyone! You tried hurting people’s loved ones, man, it’s like what the fuck! You’re delusional, man, and I’m fucking sick of it. And I...but I don’t need to go through any of this stress anymore, alright? Because this is me doing this to me now, not you. You’re fine now, you’re locked up now, you’re a bitch. I’m the one that’s giving me the stress here now...but I’m better than that! I’m better than you, alright? So I’m done here.”

“You ruined my past, Dream, but you will NOT ruin my future.”

- Dream continues to insist that he’s changing. All of a sudden, Tommy hears TNT explosions.

Dream: “Sounds like a security issue.”

- Sam disappears. Tommy calls to be let out.

Tommy: “Dream, it hasn’t been an honor knowing you, but it will be an honor forgetting you.”

- The explosions continue.

- Dream says he wrote the 7-days waiver and thinks this might be a security issue, but he doesn’t know what’s going on.

- Dream and Tommy continue to argue.

Tommy: “I KNOW YOU. You haven’t changed! You’re the fuckin’ monster of this server, alright!? Not the Egg, not anything like this, YOU ARE!”

- Tommy only has one life left, so if he dies in here, then he dies for good.

(Dying by the lava wall to get out would be a canon death)

- Tommy panics and starts burning Dream’s books in the lava. And the item frame. Dream takes the rest of the books into his inventory.

- Dream hands him a book and says he could write a story.

- Dream continually insists that he’s changed, and that he didn’t have anything to do with the TNT.

Tommy: “You’ve not changed, you’re the same old...you’re evil. You’re just evil.”

- Sam messages saying the prison is on lockdown, and to hang tight.

- Dream hands Tommy more potatoes, but he doesn’t have many left. They’ll have to wait for the automated refill.

- Tommy asks how long it’ll be. Dream guesses up to a week, like the waiver says.

“Oh no...”

Tommy ends his stream there.

---

- Jack logs on to check on the hotel and is confused by where Tommy is. He checks Twitter and finds out that Tommy has been locked in prison. He asks Sam to confirm. Sam tells him that there’s been a security issue and no one is to approach the prison.

- At first, Jack is outraged that his plans have been foiled again. But then he realizes that, with Tommy in prison, he’s now gained ownership of the hotel! He rebrands it to the Big Jack Manifold Hotel.

- Jack goes to rebrand and Sam Nook greets him at the hotel. Sam argues with Jack, not wanting Jack to take ownership.

- Jack speaks with Quackity, telling him that Tommy’s in jail. Quackity talks about how there’s soon to be an established currency: the diamond. Jack agrees to pay two diamonds for leather.

- Eret comes over to the hotel and Quackity and Jack speak with them. They tell Eret about Tommy being in jail. Eret calls it a “hostile takeover of Tommy’s hotel,” but Jack tries to convince him that it was bad for branding for Tommy’s name to be on the hotel.

- Quackity tells Eret that he’s setting up a big gathering for the opening of his business soon.

- Jack and Eret argue about hotel pricing.

- Quackity tells Jack to not be intimidated by competition, and also describes a plan to create a network of easily-accessible roads. He doesn’t like the wooden path, and says that Jack’s hotel would be a good destination for business.

- Quackity questions what Jack will do when Tommy gets out of prison. Jack insists it will be fine.

- Jack works on rebranding.

- He then speaks with Badboyhalo. Bad finds out about Tommy being in jail and is surprised. Jack theorizes that maybe he tried to break Dream out.

- Bad discusses having a room in the hotel. Jack asks for payment.

- Eret comes up with a plan to tax the shit out of everyone.

- Sam starts stream at the prison. He doesn’t know what the explosions were.

- He calls for Bad and Ant, as he’s going to make them guards. They’re part of the Badlands and he trusts them.

- The two arrive. Sam fills them in: Tommy came to visit Dream, as he had already 2 or 3 times, and there was TNT going off near the prison. He needs to figure out what’s happening, but he can’t leave the prison and he can’t be in every place at once, which is where the guards come in.

- He opens Locker 2 since Locker 1 still has Tommy’s stuff in it. Sam then starts filling them in on what each lever does.

- Sam walks them through navigating the prison and then shows them the guard-specific areas like the locker room and stasis chamber.

- Sam then shows them the spawn traps. Ant and Bad set their spawns. Each guard gets three full sets of Netherite, three chances to stop whatever security issue may arise.

- At the end of the next tunnel is something top secret that can’t be showed on-stream.

- He also shows the chest with the waivers, including Ranboo’s in Enderman.

- Sam declares Ant and Bad officially guards. They are happy to finally be employed. Sam says he’s not paying them anything except the satisfaction of knowing they’ll be helping to keep Dream in there.

- Sam, Bad and Ant find Eret’s tax request.

- Ranboo works on building a farm, starting his farmer arc.

- There’s a secret message spelled out in his inventory that reads: “HE IS IN CON(T)ROL.”

Upcoming Events:

- Quackity’s business reveal

- Whatever is going to happen in the prison now...

END OF WEEK RECAP:

2/15 - Ranboo finds his wall signs changed

2/16 - Tommy’s hotel opening, Karl and Sapnap name Kinoko Kingdom

2/17 - Foolish, Ponk and HBomb’s lore, Bad confronts Puffy about the propaganda

2/18 - Bad and Antfrost confront Puffy about the propaganda

2/19 - George vandalizes the prison, Captain Puffy’s Prank Wars

2/20 - Nothing much happens.

2/21 - Tommy gets trapped in prison, Jack and Quackity speak, Eret returns

#dream smp #dream smp recaps #long posts #prison arc

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kateis-cakeis · 3 years

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Hi! I am/was a neglected kid so i am semi on Fundy's side by default, which gives me a bias i am trying to break. And since i came to fandom later I was told a big reason Fundy apologists "dislike" Alivebur was the fact "I despise you" made Espionage Arc have no real payoff which I'm inclined to superficially agree. I was wondering if there were any vods youd reccomend i could watch to break my preconceived thoughts/bias?

Hi, Anon.

Here’s some vods at the timestamps that are probably important to watch (X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X). They show Alivebur as a father, and also him getting disowned, as well as the despise quote itself.

But I’m gonna take your ask as an excuse to do some analysis, so hope you don’t mind!!!

I feel like I should tread carefully here since you said you are/were neglected but ummm...

Okay, so, in my eyes, Alivebur was the exact opposite to neglectful. If anything he was an overbearing and protective father who thought Fundy was far too young for any kind of power - hence why he never gave him any proper government position.

Here are a couple quotes where Alivebur mentions that Fundy is too young:

“That means you’ve got like a week till Fundy’s in charge of L’Manberg.” (Tommy)

“Nah, Fundy’s too young.” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s video The Great War of the Dream SMP: 26:40)

and

“Don’t give him promotions he’s too young, he doesn’t understand.” - (Wilbur’s video Building the Resistance: 11:08)

This is likely because, as mentioned by Ghostbur, that around the time of the election, Fundy was fourteen. Which also means he was younger during the Independence War, and still fairly young at the beginning of the Pogtopia era.

Here’s the quotes:

“Last time I spoke to Fundy was… erm. When I announced I was running for President, and you said that you were also gonna run. That was the last time I remember.” - (Fundy’s Being Adopted: 1:00:43, 27th Nov)

–

“He’s very young, he’s only like fourteen.” - (Fundy’s Being Adopted: 1:03:12, 27th Nov)

–

“Phil, do you know how old Fundy is? I think he was very young when I remember, but I don’t know if he’s gotten older since.” - (Fundy’s Being Adopted: 1:03:23, 27th Nov)

The implication here is that Ghostbur doesn’t know if Fundy has gotten older since he last remembers, but Ghostbur last remembers talking to Fundy at the election.

This implies that the “He’s very young, he’s only like fourteen” means that Fundy was fourteen around the time of the election, but has gotten older since then, implied from Ghostbur asking Phil how old Fundy is. (If you wanna see more on this, here’s an analysis about the whole age thing)

With this in mind, it makes sense why Alivebur would baby Fundy and be overprotective, to the point where he gave him no responsibility. It comes from a good place, but Fundy didn’t like it all that much.

It seems with both Alivebur and Fundy, their relationship was good up until the exile. This is also further backed up by what Phil said about Alivebur being a good dad:

“Will, for good portion of your life, you were the best dad. You were great. But, at some point, you took a turn and... things got messy.” - (Wilbur’s Amangus with new and old friends: 1:59:37, 24th Nov)

That turn Phil is referring to? That’s Pogtopia, and something very notable happens with Alivebur and Fundy two weeks before Alivebur took that turn.

See, Alivebur has a very justified reason in hating Fundy, it’s not for no reason, not at all (full analysis on that here). He’s justified because, Fundy disowned him:

“Wilbur is just a founder, and I was born here and nothing else. That’s literally everything there is to it.” (Fundy)

“But you know that’s not…” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 58:20, 23rd Sep)

We have no idea if this was just for show as a spy, or if this was legit, but no matter what Fundy’s intentions were, he disowned Alivebur when he was right there, and it contributed into breaking him.

The paranoia Alivebur had in the latter half of Pogtopia? Part of it comes from Fundy. He literally claims to not even be related, at all. It’s not just disowning, it’s denying that Alivebur was ever his father.

That’s bound to hurt and break Alivebur down, and not to mention, Alivebur was hurt when Fundy wasn’t on his side at the elections, so this is so much worse.

After the above quote, Alivebur is silent for half a minute before saying this:

“I don’t know who you are anymore, Fundy. I don’t know who you are anymore…” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 59:08, 23rd Sep)

This is a major quote that gets overlooked. Alivebur thought he knew his son, but after he was disowned, he says this in a tone that seems as if he’s on the brink of tears. Losing Fundy like this hurt Alivebur deeply, but nobody ever takes it into consideration when talking about their relationship.

This is what makes Alivebur wholeheartedly believe that Fundy was on Schlatt’s side. And it definitely contributes to his paranoia. But what hurts the most, one of the quotes that matters the most, is when Alivebur, two weeks after the disowning, says Fundy was all he cared about in L’Manberg:

“Fundy, Fundy is very clearly on Schlatt’s side, look- Fundy was the closest thing I had to something I cared about in L’Manberg, when it all began. You know, when it started, the closest thing to anything I cared about was Fundy. Fundy was my, he was my, he was my boy! My rock! You know? And hearing what he said about L’Manberg and stuff is just… And when I heard him say that he had no care for me, I believe that. I think he’s so happy that he’s finally been given maturity in L’Manberg, you know. Like, Schlatt’s giving him the maturity he’s been craving, you know. And that’s cool. That’s fine. You know? I have no issue with that, he can do what he wants.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:44:10, 8th Oct)

Alivebur believed 100% that Fundy didn’t care about him, that breaks a parent no doubt. People act like Fundy never hurt Alivebur, and that he was unjust in his hatred but... that’s not true at all. Alivebur lost everything when his son betrayed him, because he had already lost his nation, his son was the last thing he had.

But Alivebur is also self-aware to why it happened, talking about how Schlatt gives him the maturity Fundy had wanted. He knows how his own actions and words had led to this, maybe even knowing he had hurt Fundy.

Which finally leads us onto the despise quote itself:

“Fundy, I despise you, you were my son and you just betrayed me. I have nothing to say to you.” (Wilbur’s The Meeting: Nov 6th, 35:55)

It’s not fair to take this quote out of context, like so many do. On its own, without everything else in mind, sure it looks bad, but with how Fundy hurt Alivebur, how it broke him, it makes a lot of sense.

After weeks - possibly even years in the SMP timeline - of believing Fundy had betrayed him and wanted nothing to do with him, Fundy walks back into his life and reveals he’s a spy. Not only is Alivebur going to find it hard to trust that, but he’s also not going to forgive Fundy straight away.

He had been hurt for weeks, if not possible years, of course he’s not just going to say he loves Fundy and move onto the plan. Yes, despise is a strong word, but look at the latter half of the quote.

“You were my son and you just betrayed me.” - This is one of the most important parts but no one ever talks about it! It can be implied from this that Alivebur sees family as the strongest bond, since this line implies he wouldn’t have expected a betrayal from his own son.

Which is why he despises him, which is why he as nothing to say to him.

Alivebur is a complex man, but pretty clear cut as a parent. He was overbearing, too protective, trying to keep his son from responsibility, from following in his footsteps in a leadership position that only caused Alivebur stress (and possibly caused his depression).

He’s a parent who thought he could rely on his son being on his side, only for his son to back his opposition at the debates, only for him to make his own party and then commit voter fraud (which you know like father like son in terms of rigging voting :P), only for him to stay in Manberg and cheer his father’s exile, only for him to disown him and claim he was never his father, only for him to reveal he was a spy wayyy too late.

It’s tragic, this relationship between them. Alivebur hurt Fundy by being overbearing no doubt, but he was never neglectful. The only time Alivebur had nothing to do with Fundy was after Fundy himself betrayed him. I think it’s rather harsh to say he had left him or neglected him with that in mind.

And ultimately, Fundy blames Alivebur for leaving him alone in the world. He still cared and missed him, and says himself that Alivebur left him when he needed him the most. But I also think that’s a bit harsh on why Alivebur died too, he didn’t do it to hurt Fundy, he did it to hurt himself.

Anyway... I hope this helps, Anon. I tried to be real sensitive but, I don’t know, you probably haven’t changed your mind anyway, people are pretty set in this fandom :P

But I really care about this father/son relationship - in fact I talked about it for hours last night with a friend - so I feel like I can sometimes shine a new light on some of the facts :)

#dream smp #alivebur #wilbur soot #dream smp analysis #damn this took hours to write XD #i got distracted trying to fact check #the cheering at exile thing #but both alivebur and tommy say it #so yeah #anyway really hope this helps anon :)#ask #Anonymous

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