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#all of this to say is that i think in the prequel dean is in this 'heaven' before sam gets there and is pulling on the thread
wigglebox · 2 years
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i surface from time to time waving the chuck won theory flag and i’m back again babeyyyyy
*the following is an utter denial of that heaven endgame and that cas is there so if you don’t agree with that then this post may not be for you! 
Let’s talk about this shot. 
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This shot... makes me feral. Especially knowing 15x04 was the first episode they shot for the season. 
This shot is why I just cannot accept the fact that they are actually in Heaven, nor that Cas is there. 
Let’s start here. The fireplace mantle.
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This mantle is like an adult toy shelf. We’ve already been in Becky’s space where she’s creating things that are like “toys”. They’re models, sets, other merch items. But here, it’s all decoration. You have funko pop stuff action figures — toys. It’s all toys up there. It’s a toy shelf. 
While they’re talking about Chuck getting his motivation and inspiration back, he takes the little Sam one down, fiddles with it, and puts it back in the opposite direction. 
There is also some Cas ones up there.
It’s a toy shelf. 
A lot of folks will say that the presence of Cas at that Road House means he’s in Heaven, but in my one on one with Misha he said that Jimmy was supposed to be dressed as Cas. 
To me, this plays into the theory that Chuck just cannot control Cas whatsoever and it’s only gotten worse as time goes on. He can’t even create a fake Cas. The only way to do so is to pull over his vessel who’s in Heaven and dress him like Cas. The last time we saw Jimmy he was not wearing the coat and tie. So putting him in this outfit would have really signaled to us that something is wrong. 
More on that in a bit. Stick a pin in that. It’s a big reason why I don’t believe Cas is with Dean by the end, nor do I want him to be. 
But going back to the toy shelf — look at this at the end. 
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I always forget her family photo is on this toy shelf. 
In talking with friends about the Chuck Won theory, I use the metaphor of Chuck putting Dean and Sam up on the ‘toy shelf’ bc he’s done playing with them. Much like this toy shelf here. 
But that does not mean they’re dead. And this family portrait up there is why. 
Chuck by the end of the episode Thanos’ed Becky’s family and then her. But before he dusts her, they have this exchange:
BECKY: No! The kids.
CHUCK: Oh, don’t worry. They’re not dead. They’re just away.
Sam and Dean aren’t dead, they’re just away. They’re put back up on the shelf. Chuck is done with them.
The shelf itself? The Empty. 
My poor friends have had to listen to me ramble and rant about this theory that Chuck and The Empty were working together, and that’s how Chuck managed to get the plot going in his favor. 
This right here is why I think that. 
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The Chess Board TM 
Right now the game is not in play. Everyone is set at their starting positions, where they know to be. The position that esablishes their role. Chuck at this point in the narrative doesn’t know where to go or how to start in that direction, so the game is not yet in motion. 
But there’s a chessboard regardless right in the foreground of the shot [thanks jackles] and that’s another metaphor I keep mumbling about to my poor friends. 
If the toy shelf is The Empty, then the chess board is Chuck’s plan; his game. 
In constantly thinking about the Chuck Won theory, I think about who’s left on the field — and no one is. 
Chuck managed to get rid of every threat against him by the end of the show. And, if he’s in cahoots with The Empty, then he knows about Cas’ deal. He knows he can’t tell Cas what to do, but he can put Cas in a situation that’d force him to act. 
So now we got:
Billie — who already didn’t like the brothers, Dean in particular all that much, antagonized against Dean after Dean hits her with the thingy thing she has idk I can’t spell it. Chuck starts dusting people, Dean thinks it’s her. They have a forced hostile relationship, thus putting Dean in a lot of danger. Chuck knows the only way to contain her is to get the Empty down there to get her but there’s no way to do that — unless —
Cas — Putting Dean in a situation where his life is in danger like that would automatically cause Cas to respond. Chuck may not be able to control him but ‘too much heart’ was always Cas’ problem, and while it’s a strength it’s also a weakness that can be exploited at times. So, put Dean in a position where he’s about to die, Cas is going to call The Empty down to get Billie and sacrifice himself in order to save Dean. 
So now Chuck got rid of two threats and they’re gonna be kept there by The Empty who’s working with him. 
Jack — The Empty, working with Chuck, is leading Billie on a little bit with this plan that Jack can be Thee Solution TM but here’s how to do it. However, the plan wasn’t actually to defeat Chuck, it was to prime a vessel for him. If you can’t beat Jack, join him — by... possessing him. In my opinion, this season was about preparing Jack to be a vessel, not to defeat Chuck. Why I think this is because Jack had a monolouge at the end of 1519, but the ‘villain’ in 15x20, Jenny, had 8 words. Jack to Chuck is the villain. But also, ironically, Chuck is the villain to OUR protagonists, and Chuck also knows that. So Jack-Chuck got the monologue, and said ‘Chuck [myself] wrote himself into the narrative, that was his mistake.’ So essentially, Chuck nabbed himself a new ride and is off to the races. 
Amara — Chuck appealed to her sense of love for humanity and this idea of love as a weakness in general and basically silver tongued his way into getting her to join up with him. How on earth did the boys defeat Chuck when he’s literally at full power now? But anyways. 
Michael — I don’t think Michael was AS big of a threat but likely Chuck knew that Michael could be talked into doing the right thing by Adam. But literally just in case as an insurance policy, he feeds Michael and pulls down Lucifer to feed to Jack so Jack can get strengthened up. Adam, his moral compass, is also gone, making it easier. 
Dean, Sam — Just... put them back on the toy shelf. They believe they defeated the bad guy, and just go back to life as normal. Almost way too normal. Like a deep regression. Get Dean out of the way first bc his death was always going to be tragic bc Chuck likes that shit. Sam can live his little life or whatever and then he can bite the big one and go join Dean and they have no idea that they aren’t, actually, in Heaven or reality at all. 
So that’s the chessboard cleared, and Chuck’s calling Check Mate. 
*another side tangent — a lot of folks write off 15x01 to 15x03 but if you take into consideration what was going on, in a broad sense, you get a bunch of souls, trapped in a bubble, trying to escape. And wouldn’t that just be fitting for a continuation? 
Some other things I wanted to note:
I don’t believe Cas is in heaven. For one thing, narrative wise, makes no sense. There’s no Empty rescue, there’s no reason to believe he got out on his own. The Empty CAN hold humans, they just don’t default to The Empty. But Billie threatened to throw them in there so — The Empty can hold humans so even Cas’ fading grace wouldn’t have had an impact. In all the times Cas has died we have had to wait a very long time to see him again. There’s just one time, the season 5 finale, where we didn’t. Otherwise: Season 4-5 hiatus, Season 7, Season 7-8 hiatus, season 12-13 hiatus and subsequent episodes etc etc. To me, bringing Cas back for 15x20 kind of dulls the impact of 1518 which was just one episode prior. There’s just 15x19 between them [and no even if there was a 22-23 episode season it’s still not enough time]. There’s no effort made to get him. Plot beat wise, it makes literally no sense for him to just magically appear like haha hey waddup it’s ya boi skinny penis 
But also, going along with the Chuck Won theory — Bobby had said that ‘Cas helped’ Jack fix up Heaven. How... in the fuck... did Jack get Cas out of The Empty? How. The Empty hates HATES both of them. ABSOLUTELY Hates them. 
Also, Jack said basically he was going to be hands off, and I’d imagine that includes plucking people down from The Empty. 
However, you know who does pluck people out of The Empty? Chuck. Though no, I don’t think Chuck took Cas out of The Empty either. 
But also, The Empty is loud! Everything is awake! We have no reason to believe it’s not because we weren’t given evidence that anything happened up there. Where we left off was: Cas and Billie taken ALIVE to The Empty which is awake and loud now. Nothing else. 
And Jack MADE it loud. The Empty hates Jack, The Empty hates that Cas keeps getting away — they’re not going to just walk in and walk out. 
So that made no sense to me. 
But also on another note: In 15x02 they managed to sneak in that VERY pointed and thematic line of “You asked what about this is real? We are” from Cas. 
Cas is the ONLY one who has escaped the narrative. It’s why Chuck hates him so much. Cas is the beacon of ‘real’. He’s the truth, he’s the antithesis of Chuck. He’s the Free Will guy and Chuck is the Puppet Strings Guy. 
The reason why, if the Chuck Won theory is correct, I don’t want Cas in “Heaven” is because I don’t want Dean to ever EVER EVER question if Cas is real or not. I don’t want him, if Cas is rescued and they all live happily ever after, to constantly be worried at night that he’s still locked up somewhere and whatever is happening isn’t actually happening. 
Cas has to remain this beacon of truth. Chuck can’t recreate him or make an imitation. Cas has to be able to exist as someone Dean can look at and go ‘Real’. So if Chuck Won is correct, and they’re really not in heaven and it’s all a mirage to placate the boys, then I don’t want Cas there. 
I don’t want Cas, The Truth, Reality, to ever be anything other than that. 
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incarnateirony · 2 years
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Saturday Jib Summary
Con opens with jensen basically saying fuck jared padalecki
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Jensen and Misha show up in matching green and blue. Jensen's outfit is a loose mockup of the handprint jacket, which they re-enact a grab of on stage.
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Fandom realizes Jensen has added a Destiel bluegreener bracelet under his "cockles bracelet."
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Normal banter ensues. At one point, a questioner tries to double down on Sam and Dean (minus Cas) for a reboot, and Misha continually inserts "and cas." Meanwhile, they coyly reference the original script, whether or not that's the current prequel timeline, which even I think has changed but,
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Jensen and Misha reveal that Jared texted them from a pool this morning, instead of on set.
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Shortly after, possibly because jenmish had been starting on him all day, Jared Padalecki facetimes into the panel from his livingroom. His connection suffers and, apropros of everything, he starts lagging out. Meanwhile, fandom is so on fire about all of the above they miss Misha lowkey speaking like a producer of a show
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Jensen is asked if he would ever direct Walker again. He says the 6 days of filming, he's too busy for. However, he would gladly direct Big Sky, which he cites taking 8-9 days to film and of course the Winchesters on the back half of the season if/when they get extended.
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Other details:
The Big Sky creator wrote Beau just for Jensen, he thought it would be a guest star role but ended up on for a season
Jensen didn't much discuss the confession because he trusted Misha to know what Cas should do/doesn't want to tell his coworkers how to do their characters, and he trusts his costars to do great work so he can too.
They wrapped 3x03 Walker today. Which I see what they mean about being behind from covid, because they air one week earlier than the Winchesters, and Winchesters is up to episode 5 at this point, so 2-3 episodes ahead.
I probably missed things but this is enough chaos for now
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yourmomxx · 11 months
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Father of Mine - Masterlist
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dean winchester x daughter!reader
summary: After Sam had left to go to College, Dean dealt with his grief the only way he knew how to - sex. What he didn’t expect was for a One-Night Stand to have certain … consequences. Your mother had died about a year after you were born; car accident. John Winchester, who had made it his mission to keep the knowledge about your existence to himself and as far as possible away from his eldest son, your biological father Dean, decided that he couldn’t just let you get adopted by some random people. The chances of them not being good news and thinking of using you as leverage against Dean were too high. So, he put you in the care of the only people that seemed right for this: The Harvelles. Former hunters, reliable, never could say no to strays. And, most importantly, Sam and especially Dean would never, ever meet them. At least that’s what he thought. Because when the Winchester brothers start to frequently visit the Roadhouse after their father’s death, they discover more secrets about John Winchester than they could ever bear to know.
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➷ teaser I ➷ teaser 2 ➷ teaser 3 ✿ playlist
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prequels (no specific order)
… coming soon
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original story (read first!)
father of mine pt. I pt. II pt. III — All Dean Winchester ever wanted was to protect the people he loved. Sometimes, in order to do that, he had to make hard decisions, Lisa and Ben were the Prime example. Years after making another one of those hard decisions, he has to come back to the place where he had left a piece of his heart - only to be constantly reminded of what he had to sacrifice in order to keep his family safe.
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sequels (no specific order)
tough love - Dean snaps and takes his anger out on you, saying some hurtful words
those christmas lights (light up the street) - It’s Jack’s first Christmas, you want to get Dean a special present, and Cas makes terrible eggnog
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david-talks-sw · 1 year
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An argument I hear from time to time is the following:
"I don't care that this novel is considered Legends, if it was canon when George Lucas was in charge of Lucasfilm, it's still canon to me now. Whatever George says is what counts, I don't care what Disney says."
Putting the Expanded Universe's Star Wars and George Lucas' Star Wars in the same basket. And that's, uh... inaccurate.
So without further ado, let's explore:
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George Lucas’ involvement in the Expanded Universe
Early years of the EU...
When the first bit of EU content came out in the form of the novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Lucas was too busy working on the films, so Alan Dean Foster wrote it by himself (which explains why Luke and Leia's relationship plays out romantically).
After the movies came out, when new material was going to be created, George told Lucas Licensing and other authors that the Prequel era was off-limits to write about, because he might tell that story one day.
Beyond that, they could go to town and write sequels, for instance. After all, part of why Star Wars was created was to let people's imagination run wild and George was happy to let other artists play in the sandbox he created.
That said, things were very clear from the get-go.
These weren't his stories.
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The Thrawn books, Dark Empire, all this material was explicitly just Tom Veitch and Timothy Zahn and whoever else's creation. Not George's, who was described by Lucas Licensing's Lucy Autrey Wilson as "not very involved".
The most he did was answers "OK/Not OK" questionnaires about what the EU writers could or couldn't write.
Telling Yoda's backstory? Not OK.
Telling Han's backstory, between the Prequel and Ep. 4? OK.
Having someone wear Vader's suit after his death? Not OK.
The Emperor returning in a clone body? OK.
So that's it. That was his involvement in the 90s.
Him saying "don't write something set during this/that period".
"OK/Not OK" questionnaires.
It's also worth mentioning he didn't approve of Mara Jade, Luke's wife in the EU. In his mind, "Jedi don't marry".
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Rather, the character herself wasn't an issue... until she married Luke. When Timothy Zahn asked for Luke and Mara to be married or engaged, back in 1993, Lucasfilm initially vetoed the idea.
According to Brian Jay Jones (author of "A Life", George Lucas' biography), in 1995 George convened a 'Star Wars Summit' wherein he gathered licensees and international agents to Skywalker Ranch to reinforce "the need for him to maintain quality control, especially in the areas of publishing, where some characters—such as Luke Skywalker, who’d been given a love interest in a fiery smuggler named Mara Jade—were living lives far beyond the ones he had written for them in the original trilogy".
Sources:
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During the Prequels...
George Lucas was writing and directing three movies with large themes, shot almost back-to-back, commuting between Australia and California. That's hard enough as it is.
Also, in the 90s, most movies were still shot on film. During the making of Phantom Menace, Lucas shot parts of the film by combining prototype digital Sony cameras and using them in combination with videotapes, rather than shooting on film.
For Attack of the Clones, George worked with Panavision and Sony to develop fully digital cameras, which eventually became the standard.
As if that wasn't enough, by making the Prequels, Lucas and ILM were also creating fully-digitized worlds (Coruscant, Geonosis) and characters (Jar Jar, Yoda) and laying the groundwork for the CGI technology that has now become essential for today's blockbusters.
Having established all this...
Do you really think he had the time or the patience to read through a bunch of novels and guidebooks?!
Simply put: George Lucas was too busy revolutionizing cinema to be involved in the development of the EU.
So if you ask George who Tahl or Vitiate are, or what the Stark Hyperspace War or a vapor manifold are, if you ask him to recite you the Sith Code... he'll grumble and say "heck if I know".
He outright admitted that fans know more Star Wars lore than him.
Because SOMEBODY ELSE wrote that stuff.
And he let them do it because:
It made money. A lot of money, especially after TPM came out. Money that could fund his next films. You don't mess with licensing. Hell, it's why he was so cool with there being all those Star Wars parodies.
He didn't see those stories as canon anyway, so it couldn't hurt. He saw them as a separate universe, an alternate timeline wherein the films happened ALONG with all these other tales.
So associating the EU content with Lucas is unreasonable. He was too busy, so he just let Howard Roffman, Lucy Autrey Wilson, Sue Rostoni and Lucas Licensing do their thing and crank out new stories and transmedia content for the fans.
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It was a one-way relationship. The licensing parallel universe needed to have some internal consistency AND adhere to what Lucas established in the new films movies (which was difficult because they weren't involved in the production process), but he didn't need to be in line or consistent with anything they established.
Now, George did set some guidelines/boundaries and there were obviously do's and don'ts. But once those boundaries were set and the brief was established, the authors had a lot of freedom and, like, 99% of their interaction was with their editors from the respective publishing houses (Scholastic, Del Rey, Dark Horse) and the folks at Lucas Licensing.
George was only really brought in to sign off on, like, some of the major plot points only once in a blue moon. Stuff like:
"Let's make a Maul novel". George would go "fine, just keep him mysterious."
"What species should Plagueis be?" George: "he could be a Muun, here's concept art."
Nothing more than that. Again: the Expanded Universe was other storyteller's interpretation of what Lucas had created.
Sometimes, it was spot on and it aligned with George's vision.
Other times, this additional lore was created by writers who didn't know what he was doing with the Prequels, so they were in the dark regarding certain plot points.
And then you have the authors who absolutely disagreed with George's vision of the Prequels, or of Star Wars, in general, but wanted to engage with the material nonetheless.
Which is why, whilst sometimes the EU fixed some plot-holes, sometimes the EU had inconsistencies.
Inconsistencies such as Ki-Adi Mundi being a Knight on the Council, who is married and has kids (when the Jedi being prohibited from marrying is a major plot point in the Prequels)...
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… or the Jedi being essentially superhuman (when one of the narrative reasons Qui-Gon is killed is to show that the Jedi are mortals, not supermen)…
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... or other stuff like Mace having a blue lightsaber for a period (because who the hell knew purple was an option?!) or some Jedi having red lightsabers, or Sith Lords being able to become ghosts after death, when that's a feat you can only achieve by being selfless.
It's also why you get conflicting definitions of what the Jedi call "attachment" or conflicting narratives trying to reframe midi-chlorians as a cold, intentionally-flawed way of seeing the Force (when they're meant to be a beautiful metaphor for symbiosis and how the Force works).
And it makes sense that some of this stuff wouldn't track, considering how Lucas stated multiple times that he didn't have anything to do with it, that it was a separate universe from his own...
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Safe to say that if George had any involvement in the EU, it was so minimal that he, himself, didn't count it as "involvement".
Additional sources:
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Later years of the EU...
After the Prequels were over and done with, Lucas created The Clone Wars with Dave Filoni. At first, he'd just suggest a few storylines, but he quickly got VERY involved in the whole process. Far more involved than he ever was with EU content.
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And y'know... Dave Filoni is a massive Star Wars fan and an avid EU reader. So, from time to time, Filoni would bring up EU material for Lucas to consider during the story conferences, and they'd look at what was out there together.
But it's important to note that George's stance toward the EU didn't change and became a rule for everyone on the writing staff: the EU content was nothing more than a pool of "fun what-if ideas" that they could draw inspiration from.
If they could, they'd try to not mess with continuity... but if the story called for it, they could retcon anything without batting an eye. Because it wasn't canon to them.
It's why author Karen Traviss quit working with Lucasfilm after the Mandalorians were retconned into pacifists in The Clone Wars.
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The only things that were truly canon were:
George Lucas' own word.
The movies.
Previously established The Clone Wars lore.
And that's it.
Everything else was somebody's else's concern. Not George's.
Sources:
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This way of seeing the EU continued all the way to the time shortly before George sold the company to Disney as his drafts for the Sequels featured:
no Jacen, Jaina or Anakin Solo (Han and Leia's kids from the EU),
a still-alive Chewbacca (who died, later in the EU),
no "New Jedi Order".
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Every version of George's Sequels ignored the EU.
Which would explain why the EU reboot was planned in the summer of 2012 (when Lucas was in charge)!
I'll repeat: the EU reboot was planned months BEFORE George Lucas sold the company to Disney.
Because of course it was! It's a natural result of 30 years' worth of content that's so intermeshed that it would stop future artists - namely George himself - from creating anything else.
Sources:
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Exceptions to the rule:
1. Comics (kinda)
He did read the comics. Or at least, he gave them a glance.
Aside from the fact that he grew up reading comics, understand that George Lucas is a visual artist, first and foremost.
That's what he's about and that's what he loves, that's what speaks to him. There's a reason his upcoming Museum of Narrative Art will feature comic panels and pages of all kind.
During pre-production on Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, Lucas had the art team draw concept art before a script had ever been written so he'd have ideas for set-pieces.
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Later on, J.W. Rinzler pitched him the idea of adapting his early drafts for Star Wars into comic form. Lucas' initial reaction was going "hell no". Rinzler had concept art made…
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… and George took one look and was on board.
So it's not a stretch to assume that a book telling a story through beautiful drawings would catch his attention more than a novel.
Case in point: He knew who Quinlan Vos was and was enamored with the character. He knew Aayla enough to put her in Attack of the Clones after seeing a cover of Republic by John Forster featuring her (below, left).
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(although, it's worth pointing out that he doesn't call her out by name a single time, in the director's commentary of the Attack of the Clones, she's just the "Twi'Lek Jedi" and her inclusion was done mainly to add more diversity to the Jedi fighting in the arena)
Over a decade later, when the comic Star Wars #7 came out in 2015, Lucasfilm acquired artist Simone Bianchi's original 20 pages and cover art for George, so he could feature it in his the Museum of Narrative Art:
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So at the very least, he looked at the comics and admired the visuals.
Whether he actually read the comics in detail or just skimmed through most of them because he liked the pretty pictures (likelier, imo) is an entirely different matter.
Sources:
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2. Video-Games (kinda)
Lucas would periodically check in on the status of LucasArts games, lending creative input and advice.
Sometimes, his advice ranged from "weird" to "he's gotta be fucking with us, right?"
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Apparently, he advised the team developing Star Wars: The Force Unleashed that they dub Starkiller "Darth Insanius" or "Darth Icky".
And you know what? I have no trouble believing it.
Firstly because if you're going by the idea that he gave no fucks about the EU, then of course he'll come up with "meh" names. But also, this is the same guy who created "Winkie" in 2012/2013, the character who'd go on to be named "Rey".
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He also told the team creating Star Wars: 1313 that he wanted a fresh face as the main character, then only weeks before the game was announced he went "let's make it Boba Fett".
Finally... the cancelled Darth Maul game by Red Fly.
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Codenamed “Damage”, then “Battle of the Sith Lords”. Think Batman: Arkham City meets Star Wars.
Red Fly pitched it as a coming of age story where we see Maul be kidnapped, tortured, eventually joining the Dark Side, and ending in TPM. Then they had interactions with LucasArts and found out Maul survived his fight with Obi-Wan.
The game went through several iterations, partly because the people at Red Fly were kept in the dark about the developments in The Clone Wars (Season 4 wasn't out yet), and even when some tidbits came out and they knew characters like Savage Oppress and Death Watch would be included, they didn't get more details.
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Whatever. They do their best to make something from what they're told. Then they have a meeting with George. As this GameInformer article explains:
“A friendly George Lucas entered the room and was eager to hear the pitch from Red Fly’s creatives. “Before they could finish their spiel, Lucas cut them off, stood up, walked over to [two Sideshow Collectibles statues of Darth Maul and Darth Talon], rotated them to be facing the same direction, pushed them together, and said ‘They’re friends!’” adds the source. “He wanted these characters to be friends, and to play off of each other. […] The problem with the idea of Maul and Talon teaming up for a buddy cop-like experience was that they were separated by over 170 years […] When this vast time divide was brought up to Lucas’ attention, he brushed off the notion of it not working, and said that it could instead be a descendant of Darth Maul or a clone of him.”
So now the game is about a descendant of Maul, guided by his ancestor and fighting a redesigned Darth Krayt, etc?
The game was eventually cancelled when George sold the company.
Worth pointing out that this was circa 2010/2011... around the time that George started working on his Sequels, according to Jett Lucas. And we know that the treatment for the Sequels that Lucas presented to Bob Iger featured old man Maul and Darth Talon as the villains of the trilogy... take from that what you will.
3. The Prequel novelizations (kinda)
They were all given a copy of Lucas' screenplay.
While most of their work was with Sue Rostoni, Lucy Autrey Wilson, and Howard Roffman on the Lucasfilm team (like some of the other authors), Terry Brooks, R.A. Salvatore and Matthew Stover all spent a bit of time with George before writing their respective novels.
George told Terry Brooks to write some additional material for Anakin Skywalker because there wasn't enough of that in the movie. He was shown rushes from the set, they "opened the safe" for him. When Terry had further questions re: midi-chlorians and the history of the Sith, George goes on a 30-minute monologue about all that.
R.A. Salvatore had a 45-minute interview with him that turned into a 3-hour chat. He was able to go back to the Ranch a few times during the writing process, and one of those times George chatted with him and his wife during lunch. He was shown various cuts of the film and concept art.
Matthew Stover and George talked for a whole afternoon (I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume he was also shown the other stuff like some cuts/deleted scenes, concept art, etc etc).
Was there a line-edit of the ROTS novel from Lucas? Regarding the Revenge of the Sith novelization, some people bring up the idea that George Lucas did a line-edit on the book because Stover wrote this statement on theforce.net:
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That said...
Stover, also stated that Lucas told him to write whatever he wanted as long as it was good,
he also said he didn't actually see Lucas type the edits,
an anonymous Del Rey editor stated on theforce.net that the notion that George edited the novel himself is "extremely incorrect".
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There's enough "reasonable doubt" for the argument to be made that the Revenge of the Sith novelization was edited the same way as any other Star Wars novel, rather than by George himself.
The fact remains, though, that it was a novel written by someone who understood the source material, as it was explained to him in detail by George Lucas himself (a luxury many SW authors never got).
Lucas' backstory for the Sith in the TPM novel: If Pablo Hidalgo is to be believed, the backstory of the Sith, as detailed in the Phantom Menace novelization, came from Lucas.
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(Obviously, I'd allow for the very likely possibility that there was some embellishment by Terry Brooks)
20 years later, however, it seems George decided to stick to the idea that there was no war between the Jedi and the Sith.
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Final thought:
A lot of people will insist that George was involved in spite of all the above-posted evidence. Saying stuff like:
"But [X person] said that it was canon..."
Sometimes, they’ll link you to this whole website collecting quotes of other people saying "the EU was canon" (never George Lucas except for, like, one/two quotes where he acknowledges the existence of Sequel books which MUST mean he saw them as canon, right?) and...
On the one hand... of course they'll all vaguely say he's "involved" and tip-toe around the subject; it's technically true and, again, they're trying to make money. It's a business, folks.
On the other... yeah? Duh. Of course it was canon to Lucas Licensing and the authors who wrote for the EU. But it wasn't canon to George. And I just gave you a whole bunch of quotes directly from him and/or the same people quoted on that website, all confirming that he didn't see them as canon and he wasn't involved (or barely was).
Other times, we're straight-up approaching "burying head in the sand/lalalala I'm not listening!" levels of justifications.
Like, we just talked about the Sith's origins, right?
I remember a while ago, this Star Wars YouTuber was reviewing this quote from Lucas, in The Star Wars Archives: 1999-1995:
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The YouTuber's reaction the second after reading the quote is saying:
"And of course, what George is referring to, here, is the Battle of Ruusan and the Brotherhood of Darkness using the Thought Bomb created by Lord Khan to kill the Jedi Lord Hoth and…"
My guy! You read a whole excerpt that started with "there was never a war between the Jedi and the Sith" and the words "Ruusan" or "Thought Bomb" never being mentioned once in the passage (or in the TPM novelization)... and concluded that George was referring to the Jedi/Sith Battle of Ruusan? And all that other EU stuff?
See what I mean, folks?
Now, look, I grew up with these stories (heck, I grew up with these stories in three different languages). So I get it. I know they're awesome.
And, yes, there is a difference between the kind of content we used to get and the content we're getting now (for one, lightsabers used to be lightsabers, in video-games, not baseball bats).
But if you're trying to prop up the EU, the facts show that the "George Lucas signed off on them" authority argument isn't a valid one. Because he clearly wasn't very interested or involved in it.
And why would you want to use this authority argument, anyway?
You shouldn't need to say "this came from Lucas" to like those stories. They don't need to be George Lucas Approved™ to matter and to be validated as "worthy of appreciation". They're valid on their own, they're great stories. And if you like them better than the Sequels, go to town. I know I do.
The only thing you can't do (with a straight face, at least) is hold them up as "the True Lucas-Approved Canon™ as opposed to the Disney Trash" in a rant, because you'd be wrong and/or lying. Neither had Lucas' hand in them in any meaningful way.
Finally... I was devastated when the EU was officially made non-canon, in 2014. And for a few years, I saw the new Star Wars continuity through this lens:
"Any EU content is still canon unless it's directly retconned...!"
Trust me, when I say that only pain lies that way. Because that's not how a lot of Star Wars creators, including the Flanelled One himself, see it. The way they saw/see it is:
"Unless it's been shown in a movie or TCW... it's a legend, it might have happened."
This line of thought seems to be increasingly applied to the new Disney canon too, by the way. "If it's not shown on a screen, then it's probably canon yet also up for grabs to be retconned."
And the sooner you accept that this is how it's being treated, the sooner you accept that the EU was never canon to Lucas or Filoni...
... the less painful it'll be when, I dunno, you watch The Acolyte and it's nothing like the Darth Plagueis novel or Plagueis himself is absent, or he's there, but as an Ithorian instead of a Muun.
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(note how I didn't use the word "painless")
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Hiiii I have a community question I wanted to ask!!
Abed mentions all sorts of movies and tv shows through out Community, but I just wanted to know if maybe you have like a list of which ones are real and which ones he seemed to like more than others.
I can only think of the dark knight because of the dvd Annie broke, and the Star Wars movies (except he apparently hates the prequels) and cougar town!
great question! sorry for the delay on a response.
so, he mentions/references an insane number of movies and tv shows throughout the series, and I unfortunately do not have a list of every single one. although, I am (VERY slowly) working on an in-depth episode-by-episode analysis of the entire series, and listing every pop culture reference is a subsection in that. but that's not helpful right now. moving on
I don't have the picture, but there's this questionnaire abed filled out (outside of the show, it must have been uploaded to a website as promotional material for the show). he says his favorite movie is a tie between:
ghostbusters (1984, comedy/horror)
an american werewolf in london (1981, horror)
back to the future (1985, sci-fi/comedy)
blade runner (1982, sci-fi/action)
stand by me (1986, adventure/comedy)
stripes (1981, comedy/war)
star wars (1977, sci-fi/fantasy, also called "a new hope")
star wars: the empire strikes back (1980, sci-fi/fantasy)
star wars: the return of the jedi (1983, sci-fi/fantasy)
ferris bueller's day off (1986, comedy/drama)
jaws (1975, thriller/adventure)
raising arizona (1987, comedy/crime)
jurassic park (1993, adventure/sci-fi)
seven (1995, crime/mystery)
the matrix (1999, action/sci-fi)
the goonies (1985, adventure/comedy)
the breakfast club (1985, comedy/romance)
real genius (1985, comedy/sci-fi)
better off dead (1985, comedy/romance)
the fog of war (2003, documentary/war)
pulp fiction (1994, crime/thriller)
(btw if anyone knows what I’m talking about and has the screenshot please rb with it! I cannot for the life of me find it lmao)
I believe this is a list he apparently made in 2009, either in the first few weeks of school or right before the school year started. so it's possible he would answer differently as the series progressed. also, I do take some of these extra-canon things with a grain of salt, as on the same form he said his favorite place on campus was study room D or something, when obviously they definitely meant to write study room F. so, the credibility of my source for this information isn't exactly rock-solid. although, he does mention a lot of these movies on screen, and expresses love for many of them (the most notable ones probably being star wars episodes IV-VI, the breakfast club, and pulp fiction)
as you can see from the list, abed particularly loves american movies from the 80's. just a trend I thought I’d point out.
here's a few others he mentions loving, or just pretty notably references:
the dark night (2008, action/crime, as you mentioned)
rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (1964, musical/animated, is the whole basis of 2x11 abed's uncontrollable christmas)
the shawshank redemption (1994, horror/crime, is the basis for his plot with troy, annie, and shirley in 4x05 cooperative escapism in familial relations)
freaky friday (I believe it's the original one from 1976 specifically, but it's been remade a bunch. comedy/fantasy. it's the basis of abed and troy's story in 4x11 basic human anatomy)
rambo/first blood (series starting in 1982, action/thriller. abed talks about how messy the progressive series titles are in 3x14 pillows and blankets)
ocean's eleven (2001, crime/thriller, the basis for the heist scene from 3x21 the first chang dynasty)
hearts of darkness (1991, documentary/war, abed mentions it while pointedly filming dean pelton's production of his greendale commercial rather than helping with the commercial itself. similarly, hearts of darkness filmed the making of apocalypse now)
apocalypse now (1979, war/action, see the above explanation)
die hard (series starting in 1988, action/thriller, abed mentions wanting to do a die hard homage for christmas multiple times throughout season 4)
good will hunting (1997, thriller/romance, troy and abed's story in 1x24 english as a second language is filled with references to this movie. abed is doing homages on purpose, troy is not)
my dinner with andre (1981, comedy/drama, abed does a very elaborate homage at jeff's accidental expense in 2x19 critical film studies)
indiana jones (raiders of the lost ark, temple of doom, and the last cruscade only. he mentions loving the first three indiana jones movies in 1x04 social psychology)
aliens (1986, action/adventure/sci-fi, he and troy dress up as an alien and ripley in 2x06 epidemiology) (side note, I believe they're specifically referencing aliens, which is a sequel to alien. could be wrong though)
blade (1998, horror/action, they watch it over the course of 3x15 origins of vampire mythology after troy and abed assert multiple times that it is an amazing movie)
I think he generally talks about movies more than he talks about tv shows, but he does mention quite a few of them. some notable mentions are:
friends (1994, sitcom, mentions at least twice)
m*a*s*h (1972, sitcom, mentions in passing in 1x05 advanced criminal law, and references throughout 1x13 investigative journalism)
the cape (2011, action, mentions throughout 4x13 advanced introduction to finality)
who's the boss (1984, sitcom, is the premise of his whole storyline in 2x20 competitive wine tasting)
LOST (2004, sci-fi, mentions at least twice)
obviously there are a LOT more, but I just tried to list some of the most important ones, plot-wise and for understanding of his character. hopefully I’ll be able to get back to everyone with a super long list of every tv show and movie he ever mentions lmao, but that'll take a while. (there are lists online that say they list every movie and tv show abed has ever mentioned, but ngl I don't 100% trust those, so I’ll make my own lmao. but I put the link to one of them if you're curious. here's another one too)
at this point anyone who has seen community knows there are some really really big ones that I haven’t mentioned yet. pieces of media that are INTEGRAL to abed as a character. I was saving them for last lmfao. they are:
kickpuncher
inspector spacetime
cougar town
if I had to pick a holy trinity of media for abed, it would be these three things. these are EASILY the things he talks about the most, which is interesting, as both the kickpuncher movie franchise and the inspector spacetime series are completely fictional, and only exist in the community universe. (this is probably so they can show abed actually watching some of the shows/movies he talks about, without the obvious copyright issues that come with playing clips from an already existing movie/tv show on your screen. they kind of do that with blade in 3x15, but they only play vague fighting sounds, and never show their tv on our screen. anyway. not relevant.) to answer one of your questions from the ask, I believe those two are the ONLY fictional pieces of media abed talks about. as far as I know, everything else he mentions is real, including cougar town.
kickpuncher is obviously reminiscent of sci-fi/action films from the 80's, like robocop. like I said earlier, taking their place so that they could have a more substantial role in abed's on-screen life without any copywrite worries. it's a whole franchise, so there are multiple movies: kickpuncher, kickpuncher 2: codename: punchkicker, kickpuncher 3: the final kickening, kickpuncher: detroit, kickpuncher: miami (?), and kicksplasher (?). kicksplasher is apparently shown as a poster on abed's wall, and I’m assuming it's from the same franchise, although that could be wrong. the point is there's a very elaborate universe for kickpuncher, and it's a big part of abed's, and later troy's, film taste. the first time they mention it is in 1x15 romantic expressionism, when abed, troy, shirley, pierce, and chang all get together in abed's dorm room to make fun of stupid movies together. it's funny that it was introduced as a stupid movie to watch ironically, then troy and abed both end up genuinely loving it lmao. classic
inspector spacetime is obviously reminiscent of doctor who. they're both british sci-fi series that have been running for decades. doctor who uses a police box to travel the multiverse, while doctor who uses a telephone box. doctor who has malicious daleks who chant "exterminate," while inspector spacetime has blorgons who shout "eradicate." the concepts of the shows are obviously the same, with the actor for the doctor changing every season, etc etc. they're essentially the same exact show, but, like I said before, changed slightly so they can world-build without getting copywrited. there is something a little bit silly about this, though. it's definitely a continuity error and it's up to everyone whether they want to accept it as canon or not, I guess, but there's an episode where abed is actually wearing a doctor who t-shirt. (it also references bill and ted, but the doctor who part is what's relevant.) here's some pictures:
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awesome shirt tbh, but it is a little bit funny that is essentially makes it true that doctor who and inspector spacetime both exist in the community universe. and, these pictures are from the cold open of 4x11 basic human anatomy, which is way after inspector spacetime is introduced to the show (3x01 biology 101). so, is inspector spacetime just a rip-off of doctor who? is abed a fan of both shows? if he is, clearly he likes inspector spacetime better. anyway. I would guess that this wasn't intentional. but that is definitely a tardis on that shirt. maybe it's just a classic season 4 continuity mistake. oh well. I guess that's just how the cookie crumbles. anyway.
cougar town time! yes, it's a real show. I didn't think it was but it is. what's not real is cougarton abbey, the short-lived british remake that britta gets abed into in 3x01 biology 101. but yeah. it has 6 seasons and is streaming on hulu, if you're interested. I’ve heard it's not good but who knows for sure. something cool about cougar town is that abed is actually in an episode. let me be clear: not danny pudi. ABED. it's similar to the story abed tells about being invited to the cougar town set and shitting his pants while having an existential crisis about the layers of reality. here is a youtube clip of the scene. I found out about it while stalking danny pudi's wikipedia page months ago, you know, a typical sunday afternoon activity, and I saw a cougar town credit on there. I didn't even know it was a real show at that point so you can imagine my surprise lmao. anyway. idk if you knew that already but it's one of my favorite community easter eggs. so funny.
okay! I hope this is enough information to suit your needs, and I am once again opening the floor to anyone who wants to add anything 💯 this was fun, thanks for the ask, and stay fresh everyone ✌️
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shallowseeker · 5 months
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Don't grieve in front of me, Dean. It makes me uncomfortable, part II...or prequel?
How'd I get here again?
Oh, yeah. I got here, because I got excited about the cars. I remembered Dean driving a brownish tan/brown car in THE SCENE from Slash Fiction? Pinto, I wondered. FORD?
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Alas. It's a Pontiac Acadian. I was so hopeful. It's a VERY similar style though. But it definitely calls to mind the car when Cas n' Dean presided over Mary's loss of John in 4x03. It looks like the car on the beach in 13x01, when Dean is grieving Cas. And this...is 7x06, when Dean is ALSO grieving Cas.
It's also VERY interesting how the break light's out on the driver's side. That's because Dean is out of commission. In SPN, often the headlights or the break lights show which brother is "down for the count." At the end of season 1, ep 1, it's Sam who's down-and-out, because he lost Jess.
Here, it's Dean. He "appears" on, but the break light shows us the truth.
We cut from the "out break light" to...THE winged Pony, hanged. The pony is the light. It's yellow. It's the sunshine. Because the light is out.
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It's winged. It's in the rearview. it's noosed around the neck, like how Cas said that freewill is something you hang yourself with. He cuts it off and throw it into the backseat, desperate to forget. Cause it's Caaa---
Anyway. You could argue Dean is lamenting the life he'd left behind, but the Lisa-Ben dynamic was Dean's Ford Truck phase, and this winged thing is-- it's just-- it's just 100% pointing to Cas. If you don't think so, the next bit is damning.
Sam turns on the radio to make Dean feel better. A sad song comes on, and Dean drops the act for a MILLISECOND. And Sam? He says SORRY.
Then, he gets uncomfortable.
It's the earlier match to the peanut-butter-and-jelly-strong-choice scene from season 13x06 (widow era).
Sam is afraid of this kind of grief. (And for good reason. Thanks, John!)
"What would you say if I called on you now..." is the first line. Come when you call, etc etc etc. And Dean looks just about ready to burst into tears. No, watch the scene. He looks devastated when he hears it and realizes what it is, like a little intake of breath.
Dean grieves Cas...with music.
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Ah, the familiar pattern. Dean is struggling to be allowed to grieve in this season. Everyone's terrified of his grief, even Bobby, who demands he "not be a person" and "keep doing the job" in a desperate plea to keep Dean from "dying before he does." Bobby doesn't know what to say or how to grieve, so he tries to keep Dean alive the only way he can think of, with utilitarian pragmatism.
But Dean needs to feel his emotions. Even though the scene above is played for laughs, it's really about Dean's emotions leaking out despite his attempts to hide it.
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Ahem. Not writing Dean-Cas till "later seasons," my ass. Dean wore his heart on his sleeve whenever he was "allowed" to. My gosh!
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EXT. ROAD – NIGHT A small, old hatchback is driving down the road. INT. HATCHBACK – NIGHT A yellow My Little Pony is dangling from the rear-vision mirror. DEAN squeezes it and it squeaks. He takes out a knife, cuts it down and tosses it into the back seat. It squeaks again as it lands.
SAM: You okay? DEAN: You know, it's bad enough that they're ganking people, wearing our mugs, but now this? Have us driving around in this... this caboodle while Baby's on lockdown. SAM: It's temporary, Dean. DEAN: Nobody puts Baby in a corner. SAM: Y-you know that's a line from -- DEAN: Swayze movie. Swayze always gets a pass! SAM: Right. Uh, well, you want some tunes or something? Here. SAM turns on the car radio. MUSIC: Air Supply’s “All Out Of Love” ♪ And what would you say if I called on you now and said that I can't hold on ♪ SAM looks at DEAN. SAM: Sorry, man, I-I... DEAN: Just leave it. Probably gonna be the only thing on. ♪ There's no easy way, it gets harder each day ♪ Please love me or I'll be gone ♪ I'll be gone ♪ SAM looks at the map FRANK gave him and DEAN starts to lip-sync along to the music. ♪ I'm all out of love ♪ I'm so lost without you ♪ SAM looks over at DEAN. ♪ I know you were right ♪ believing for so long ♪ I'm all out of love ♪ DEAN notices that SAM is watching him and stops singing. ♪ What am I without you? ♪ DEAN looks away out the driver’s side window. ♪ I can't be too late to say that I was so wrong ♪ Oh ♪ DEAN starts to lip-sync again. ♪ What are... ♪ SAM looks at him and he stops again. ♪...you thinking of? ♪ DEAN moves his head in time with the music. ♪ What are you -- ♪ SAM: Here. SAM switches off the radio and they sit in silence. SAM studies the map. Jericho is circled.
youtube
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Someday I'll do a thing about all the car-hopping they have to do until, you know, Dean is "Dean" again.
Dean, going through the motions, "acting like one of the dead ones." And...the Impala makes a return once Dean accepts that Cas can't help, and then Cas says he's gonna go with to try and mitigate the wreckage he left.
Cas agreed to try and "fix" things, just as Dean accepted their brokenness. (No ones cares if you're broken so long as you try.)
And the we see Baby again for the first time. Hmmmm.
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destiel-wings · 1 year
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I've gathered some of my thoughts about The Winchesters season finale and here's why i think it gave me some peace
(yes, this does contain a destiel interpretation, too 💚💙)
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Did i want to see Cas in it? Yes.
Was i disappointed that he wasn't? Actually, no (more on that later).
But I loved it. I was so stunned as I saw it and I felt like somehow it healed some of the wounds from the spn finale... but i couldn't quite understand why.
Here's why.
We basically watched Supernatural. Jensen reopened the finale and went further with it. What we saw in The Winchesters felt like a continuation of 15x20, even if it technically happened in between the last two scenes of the finale. But we got Bobby, we got Jack. They all actually talked, in a way that felt alive and real. Jack broke his rule of no interfering, showing that he still cared for Dean (just like he had broken his own rule off screen by saving Cas from the Empty). The Winchesters wasn't a prequel, but a sequel.
Dean got his own story, got to make something for himself (instead of just waiting for Sam on a bridge), and it's something that he wanted to do. He went back to look for hope and love, for a version of his parents where they could have a real chance.
We learn love (or we don't) and how to be in a happy relationship as kids by watching our parents, and Dean was doomed that way. He never had that example, to learn how to build a relationship and let himself be loved. He never learned that. So when he gets to heaven and he has the chance, before getting on that bridge, before meeting up with his family, with Sam... and yes, with Cas (even if we haven't seen him yet), he just needs a freaking minute. He needs a little time to himself. To reconnect. To understand. To reflect on love and what it means to love and be loved.
So he does what any fond child would do... he looks up at his parents. Only his parents that are right there in heaven didn't exactly have a happy ending (or even a happy middle), so he explores further, searching for a chance, a hope, a version of his own legacy where love was possible. Because if his parents can make it... so can he.
And we see all that through his own lenses (the weird use of the camera lenses with all those flares and glow resembles the aura of Dean's drive in heaven, thinking about it in retrospect).
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screencaps of the glowy amber look and those camera flares, there's probably better examples but these are some of the best ones i could find
Dean's mission might have been the Akrida, but the reason he went looking, the real quest he was after, was hope. Hope for a happy ending. Hope for love, where said love was doomed from the start.
And it's not surprising that there were destiel parallels everywhere, because that was Dean's POV, and he's processing his own feelings. Which is something he needs to do before he sees Cas again.
And personally, I think Dean loves Cas back and he knew that before dying, but still, that doesn't mean that he's not afraid of messing it up. That he knows how to approach him, or face Cas, after all that's happened.
He may not even be doing all of this thinking consciously, but the Castiel subtext we've seen in The Winchesters, from a narrative POV, is Dean's.
We're seeing the parallels because he's seeing them, making them, it's his way of processing. Of seeing what he and Cas had, and what they could have. Looking for hope.
And, as he himself said before leaving again... i think he found it.
So i don't know how things are going to go on from here. I can't imagine how we could have Dean in a season two. I've been saying all along that The Winchesters might open the story for a SPN revival/s16, and i think it is perfectly possible that this might happen here.
The Winchesters might not have Dean anymore, becoming its own show (but still having lots of references and guest stars from Supernatural) and *as Jensen loves to say* when we get the revival, there will be the space to address Castiel's confession and give his character the importance that it needs.
It wouldn't have made sense to see Cas here in a little cameo, it wouldn't have been enough. But what we saw here, was the confirmation of Jensen reopening the finale, and his willingness to bring Dean back (as he's always stated), for whatever more he's allowed to do.
I love the way they handled it, we still got peace and hope (even if there were to be no s2), and i feel like we're all more confident that the bridge scene is not an ending, but a beginning of something more. Dean has said he's gonna go look for his family. That's not just Sam.
Of course he's gonna see Cas too. But i don't think any of us would've been satisfied to see him pop up randomly for a couple of minutes in TW, with little to no mention of what happened between them.
Also, i want to point out that this was supposed to be the midseason finale but they had to adapt it when they found out they didn't get a full season, we could've had much more (like more narrating voices as Jensen had teased) or even seeing more of Dean, instead of just seeing him in the pilot and the season finale. They even asked Misha to be there (and he refused for scheduling conflicts since he was busy filming Gotham Knights *but said he's absolutely willing to appear later*).
So i think there's still so much story to tell here and i am absolutely hopeful and trust that we will love it.
I think they did an amazing job in 13 episodes, and I can't wait to see what's next 💖
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angelsdean · 1 year
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another thing i think should happen in the prequel when they meet dean is, maybe dean doesn't tell them right away who he is. maybe he just lets them think he's a hunter who knows abt the akrida and can help. maybe he even tells them he IS from the future but doesn't get into specifics. so he starts planning and scheming with them, takes on the leader role bc he's technically the oldest one there. and maybe dean starts delegating roles and suggesting a plan of action and john does Not like that. john gets stubborn. john butts heads with dean, criticizes his plans, mouths off and pushes back bc he doesn't like being told what to do by this stranger. and dean tries to stay civil and keep his head but god, it all hits too close to home. and then it all comes to a head, john's anger boils over and he takes a swing at dean, and dean's a trained fighter so he dodges it easily, but he still flinches a little, and john tries again and this time dean catches his arm, mid-swing and holds it there. and the both look each other in the eyes and it's the first time john's really looking and dean, and dean's eyes have gone a bit vulnerable, because yeah he's over forty and his dad is just a kid, but god he can't help feeling like a kid himself at the other end of john's fist. and they look at each other and john sees something in dean's eyes, and there's a flicker of recognition. and then dean just rasps, eyes a little wet now, "dad, stop," and john crumbles and dean drops his arm and this all happens so quick so the others in the room are still reeling from it all and mary just comes over to them like "what happened??" and john can't look at dean anymore and dean sniffs and wipes a few stray tears before giving mary a watery smile and says, "i, uh, i guess i should properly introduce myself. my real name is dean. dean winchester. and i'm your son."
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lol-jackles · 7 months
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Whenever Anons tell me that Jared fans are just as bad as AAs and hellers, I always ask for receipts.
The reason they won't ever be able to provide this (besides the ones Jai & co have been exposed as having faked to frame Jared fans...) is they don't exist (I know you know this lol, just making a general statement). The thing is, AA's are soooo beyond sensitive that they literally think saying we don't like Jensen's outfit at a con, or that he looks tired, or that he's had botox is "hate". You say anything even remotely critical about Jensen? You must hate him. They take such personal offense to things that are barely a slight to Jensen as hate.
Jared fans on the other hand, have had over 16 years of dealing with the hate and insults and biting their tongues. They have a much thicker skin. They are getting more assertive and pushing back more nowadays, but they still had to stay quiet for 15 years to keep the peace because, for some reason, it fell on them (much like it falls on Jared).
Btw this is exactly how and why I left the Jensen fandom completely. I was a Jensen leaning J2 fan when I joined the fandom. Problem was that I didn't immediately turn on blinders to Jensen's behavior when I joined (like a good little Jensen fan is expected to). So I made a mildly critical comment about him and was dogpiled. I was told I wasn't a real fan and that I actually hated him and was just pretending to like him. I was called some pretty gross stuff and told I wasn't wanted there. And from people I really didn't expect (at the time I didn't expect it at least). That's when I realized there weren't a lot of "safe spaces" in the Jensen fandom and it was exhausting trying to get news about him from sites where I also had to see (tagged) Jared hate and them attacking other fans like me. It was just easier to not bother anymore.
I actually saw a few posts recently from TB/GenV fans who were really annoyed that Jensen had a cameo in GenV because it's annoying how he takes over and all the gifsets and everything are all him. They didn't want him on the spinoff because that was a show mostly safe from his fans. It took them less than one season to piss off TB and GenV fans. Jared fans put up with it for 15 years.
Thank you for sharing your history. This completely jives with the many private convo I had with Dean/Jensen fans laminating the lack of safe space within their fandom that doesn't include Destiel and/or hating on Sam/Jared (X) but also expected to never discuss Dean or Jensen other than a perfect victim because AAs viewed themselves as perfect victims that the world must change and cater to them. The only advice I could provide them was to go to original posts by Sam girls (because at least they respect the show's canon) and look at who are reblogging or liking with Dean's avatar or his name.
Yeah I never understood why it fell on Sam girls to keep the fandom peace by appeasing the demented Sam haters. Just like it fell on Jared to protect Jensen from Destiel hellers' campaign to slander Jensen as a homophobe (*wave hello to MallorytoyourMickey aka Heidi aka High-D aka my buddy!*) but they won't protect Jared from slanderous lies spread by their own fandom on social media.
Which is why AAs, hellers, and even Kripke get the shock of their lives when Sam/Jared girls do strike back because they're like cats - chill and indifferent but have murder mittens and Freddy Kruger hands when rudely poked.
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I’ve joked that Jared’s stans’ response to the Prequel debacle was “I’VE BEEN FREED!"  They no longer have to support and defend Jensen especially now that SPN is over, then the Prequel debacle was the cherry on top because it gave them the ultimate permission to no longer do the geek social fallacy thing. And I like to think that Dean fans are also free from Ackles Army's death grip of the character now that they're moving on to The Boys fandom.
Speaking of which, I'm not surprised to hear TB/GenV fans are annoyed by the AAs. The soap opera and SPN fandom couldn't stand them, why would TB fandom be any different? As long as AAs view themselves as perfect victims, they don't believe they need to change their attitude.
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wigglebox · 1 year
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tho for real, while talking with folks today, i do believe that’s gabriel and not loki [going off of gabe’s story that loki gave him the disguise at some point] due to language he used. 
the interesting one was the use of ‘samesies’ as a friend said, which came about mostly, according to google, around 2007. which is also, interestingly, is the same year gabe’s/loki’s first episode aired lol. 
but also, i do believe wholeheartedly that it was in fact chuck and not just a rob benedict easter egg, particularly bc this interview with robbie dropped before the episode:
Samuel is a big mythology character to come into the series. What’s the mandate been about how many of these “known characters should be folded into the first season?
You know, our mandate — and that’s a great phrase for it — was: What’s the story? What’s the story we’re trying to tell with these characters? They can’t just be Easter eggs and fun for the fans. We never said “no” to any character. We never said, like, “Absolutely not!” But when we got into the nitty gritty of “if we do bring in that character, what’s the story? What are we saying about Supernatural? And are we breaking anything that we, therefore, have to buy? Any time that was the case, where it felt like there was no more story here, and therefore it was just an Easter egg fun thing, we moved on from it. It’s not like they’re Pokemon and we’ve got to collect all of them. We really wanted to find a way to tell our story, and then how those character could exist within ours. So that was really the mandate.
basically, they’re not throwing in OG SPN characters for shits and giggles, they’re there for a purpose. And they even did a tighter shot on Rob playing the piano, and he was wearing a party city wig, AND he was wearing white. 
you don’t casually throw in a rob benedict reference because for every new fan who won’t understand the significance or may pick up on the fact that it’s him, you have more of us OG SPN fans who would. And yeah, I know it was LS performing, but Rob didn’t say he was going to be there. No one was expecting it. I mean some of us were expecting for a while to see him pop up but there was no expectation that he would this episode. 
and i’m thinking about this TBT he posted a while ago, as chuck, in swan song, wearing white, with an in-universe prequel comic book poster framed behind him of john winchester. 
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and another friend pointed out that there were quite a few lens flares during carlos’ singing scene. 
so yeah. 
that was chuck, that was gabe, and no i don’t think gabriel is stuck in a mirror. that’s just what he does to throw people off his trail. and if he is stuck in that mirror, obviously we know he doesn’t stay there. 
and now we obviously know that dean’s in their timeline too 
so — are they really in existence right now? are they in the empty? are they all sharing a mass hallucination? you have gabriel using modern language indicating time travel, you have dean and the car indicating time travel, and you have chuck who should not be having powers now if we are following the story linearly from OG SPN 
Damn I love this show I can’t wait for more. 
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ajvocals43 · 1 year
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Mine
Pairing: Dean Winchester x Plus Size!Reader
Word Count: 1058 
Warnings: Slight swearing, slight smuttiness (if you squint), bad writing probably, body image issues
A/n: Another birthday fic I wrote for the wonderful Dean Winchester. Also can be read as a prequel to the fic I wrote last year: Birthday 
 "Up." 
 "No.” He gave me a look that I knew to cut off, “Dean, remember my thing about sitting on things that aren't made for sitting on?" 
 "It's a metal counter top. I promise there is no chance of you breaking it." And then he took matters into his own hands and lifted me onto the island himself. I had tried not to but I couldn't help the sound that came out of me at the feeling of being picked up. I knew he was strong but I didn't expect that. 
 "Dean are you-" 
 He didn't let me finish. "Y/n, I already told you. Your gorgeous body is not nor has it ever been ‘too heavy’. I would tell you if it were different, okay?" 
 “No, you wouldn't.” I protested, “I don't get this way for no reason, I'm big, I know that. I-” 
 He knew me well enough that he already knew where I was going with this. “Yeah. Big… beautiful… and mine.” He pulled me into him before saying, “I'll tell you as many times as you need to hear it, there is nothing about you that doesn't make me crazy about you. There's a reason that you are the longest relationship I've ever had. You and Sam are my everything. I wouldn't trade either of you for the world. Don't ever doubt that. Now sit there and let me feed you cake because it’s my birthday and I feel like feeding my gorgeous girlfriend.” 
 And that was all he wanted to say apparently because the next thing I knew, there was a piece of cake on a fork in front of my face. I didn't fight my smile, opening my mouth anyway to let him feed me. And I wouldn't lie, that cake was amazing. Some kind of mix of chocolate and vanilla that melted on the tongue and I couldn't help the moan that escaped at the taste. 
When my eyes finally opened again, (though I'm not sure when they closed) I found Dean with heat in his eyes. Even after how long we’d been together, I was surprised that I could be the cause of that look from him. 
 “Shouldn’t I be the one feeding you because it’s your birthday?” I was scrambling for a subject change. There was too much to do between the pie in the oven and the party waiting to be put together in the next room. I didn't have time to act on his look, no matter how much I wanted to. 
 He shrugged before saying “You know me well enough that I wouldn't eat it, as close as Sam seems to think it is. Especially since you made me a pie that is currently in the oven.” He leaned in to seal his lips to mine in a soft kiss that made my heart flutter with its sweetness. 
 It was then that the timer on my phone went off for me to pull said pie out of the oven. When I straightened from the oven, placing the pie on top of a hot pad, Dean came up behind me, wrapping his arms around my waist. “That smells delicious.” he groaned, “My favorite kind of present.” 
 “Well that's good, considering the other one.” I mumbled. 
 “What’s that supposed to mean?” Dean asked. Shit, did I say that out loud? “Y/n? What's wrong?” 
 “Okay so you do have a present from me, but I got it impulsively and I thought it was a good idea but now I'm not so sure…” I tried to pull away but he wouldn't let me. 
 “Sweetheart, what is it?” He seemed concerned. I felt the heat creep up my neck as I tried to find a way to explain the nonsense that had come out of my mouth. 
 I didn't end up saying anything. Instead, I took his hand that had been stroking my hip underneath my shirt and moved it up to the lace that covered my breast. 
 He groaned. “I stand corrected. Happy birthday to me.” he murmured in my ear. A shiver ran down my spine at the tone of his voice. That heat was back. His lips started placing slow kisses along my neck, his hands roamed my body, feeling the lace and killing my brain cells. Specifically the ones that would keep me from letting this go further. It took all the strength I had to fight off my arousal and Dean. 
 “No. Not now.” I said softly. 
 “What’s wrong?” it was like a switch had flipped. In an instant all the heat was gone, replaced by confusion and worry. 
 “I don't have time. I have to go to the store, remember?” I tried to pull out of his arms again to no avail. 
 “To hell with the store.” he nuzzled his face back into the crook of my neck. 
 “No, remember? I have to go get the stuff for burgers. Isn't that what you wanted for your birthday dinner?” 
 “But you take forever when you go to the store.” he groaned and I laughed both at the tickling sensation and at his attitude. 
 “Unless you want to go, I have to.” I told him, hoping he’d take the bait so that I could call Sam and the gang in to help set up the surprise party I had planned for tonight. His arms disappeared from my waist and he was walking over to the table to grab his coat and keys. “Where are you going?” 
 “To the store,” he said plainly. “I'll be back in half an hour.” 
 “You're ridiculous.” I said, shaking my head. I hoped he believed my acting skills because otherwise I was screwed and this surprise was ruined. Luckily, he hadnt seemed to notice anything and with a quick kiss to my lips, went down the hall towards the garage. 
 And then he scared the shit out of me when he popped his head back in the kitchen saying, “Don't think I’ve forgotten about my present.” I had to laugh as I ran to catch up and walk him to his car (to make sure he got there this time). I waited until I couldn't see his car in the garage anymore before I texted Sam. 
We’re a go
 To which I got the response: 
You're lucky he’s in love with you. 
Masterlist 
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zepskies · 6 months
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I just have to say, genuinely everything in the BMD-verse is some of the best stuff I’ve ever read, BMD has managed to climb it’s way up to being one of my all time favorite fics that I could endlessly re-read and I can’t thank you enough for that. It was so well written and so many subtle details went into making the word feel so real, to the point where I truly felt immersed in the plot and could clearly visualize everything in my head. This fic made me laugh, cry, and had me on the edge of my seat wanting to read more to see where everything went with these two. Reading it helped brighten my day when I wasn’t having the best one. Also I don’t think I’ve ever loved OC’s quite as much as I absolutely love Frank and Loco, you put so much world building and detail into this fic and it really shows so beautifully, you were able to encapsulate the personalities of each character so well, down to the little details in how they react to certain situations or things they’d be likely to say, all while still giving your OC’s just as much depth and personality, you even executed the character arcs so realistically and it was done so damn well. This fic truly felt like a masterpiece and I am so grateful that you decided to create it, so genuinely thank you!
Okay, I didn't expect to cry today but you managed it, lovely Anon. 🥹💚
I've actually been going through a roughish time in my personal life, so you sent me this amazing note at the perfect time...
I'm having a hard time forming actual words right now, but I'm so happy that Break Me Down has become one of your favorite stories, and most of all that it helped brighten your day when you weren't feeling so hot. I definitely have my comfort stories, books, movies as well.
I genuinely put my heart and soul into BMD from conception, to outlining, to writing and editing each chapter. Even now I look at those 19 chapters and can't believe it's something I actually wrote. I'm just a sucker for a redemption story, and after SB's character hooked me, something crazy told me that he should get his chance to become a real hero.
(Here are some more details you probably don't want/need to know about how BMD began. 😅):
After writing Checkerboard, @deans-spinster-witch knows, as I've credited her many times, but she encouraged me to write a "prequel" to expand on how SB might get to that level of character growth.
...And somehow, BMD became an "enemies to lovers" epic. 😂
Thank you also for loving Frank and Loco! I've said this before, but one of the best writing tips I've ever gotten about writing minor characters is this: Write them like they're the protagonists of their own stories.
Give them their own character arcs, however short or long, whether tragic or fulfilled, etc.
When they're in the scene, give them something important to do or say that furthers the plot.
If you can't name a character, 9/10, they probably don't need to be there.
Without both Frank and Loco, Ben and the reader wouldn't have made it through until the end. And those two (especially Frank) now live in my head alongside Ben and the reader and their ever-evolving story.
This fic truly felt like a masterpiece and I am so grateful that you decided to create it, so genuinely thank you!
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Damn it, who's peeling onions?! 😭😭
You're so very welcome. 💚💚 It's an absolute pleasure to write for you guys, but also to express myself and get out these stories that live rent free in my head. 😘
(Btw: I totally respect that you're anonymous in my inbox, but feel free to comment on this and let me know who you are -- only if you feel comfortable! You absolutely made my day, hun. 💓)
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A Deeper Kind of Kiss
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Summary: Y/N is ready to explore a new first with Dean, but will her harsh upbringing get in the way?
Warnings/Explicit 18+: Smut. Kissing, making out, mutual masturbation, a gentle kind of dirty talk, talk of sexual firsts, brief discussions of sex shaming, and a psychologically abusive parent, religion used as body control. All quite brief. Mostly this is fluffy smut! 😊❤️
Pairings: Dean Winchester x Y/N
Word Count: 3k+
A/N: So, I’ve decided to do all 30 of these writing prompts. I may miss a day here and there, but I’m going to try to do one a day, and I will be completing all 30 no matter what.  They won’t always be in order.  This fic will be for the prompt: Use the title of the last song you listened to.
That last song was "Kiss Me" by Ed Sheeran.
Hope you enjoy! I will be putting together a Masterlist for all 30 prompts and adding it to my main Masterlist.
A/N 2: K, this is a sequel to my very first prompt story:
First Time for Everything
and it's prequel:
An Introduction to Heroes and Monsters
I got quite a bit of feedback from the original story asking for more with them, to find out how they met, and then some fics showing more of Y/N's "firsts" with Dean. So, I'm planning on doing that.
This sequel picks up right where An Introduction to Heroes and Monsters left off. I've included the last few lines of that fic at the start of this one, just so it flows. You technically don't need to have read the other two to read this one, but it might make it more enjoyable. Hope you like it!
Both beautiful text dividers, below and at the bottom, were created by @talesmaniac89.
Masterlist // Tag Lists
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Y/N continued to look up at Dean's profile as she sat beside him on the couch and finally, he looked down at her with a questioning smile.
"Hey, kid. You good?"
Y/N smiled widely, amazed by her answer.
"So good." She said and pulled him close, kissing him softly and melting as he deepened it, tongue sweeping across her lips. She moaned softly and opened for him immediately.
He pulled her into his lap so he had better access to her lips and then her throat and then the delicate skin just below her collarbone where he sucked bruises into her skin.
He pushed his hand up under her shirt and grasped her breast.
Y/N gasped in surprise; it was the first time he'd touched her like that.
He pulled back, and his jaw was clenched tightly as she ran her fingernails through his stubble, loving the raspy sound it made.
"Sorry," he said hoarsely, "got a bit carried away."
He kissed the tip of her nose and leaned his forehead against hers.
She was breathing rough as she kissed him again, fast and hard before pulling away and asking him to continue. "Think you could get carried away again?"
His eyes were dark with lust and they made her shiver. "Are you sure?"
"Completely." She said and then leaned up to whisper in his ear. "I'm more than ready to share another first with you, Dean Winchester."
She pulled back slightly and Dean's dark, forest green eyes stared into her and through her as she held her breath.
"Come here." He whispered gently as he leaned close and turned his head so that his lips skated along her cheek. He skimmed his finger tips along her other cheek, tucking her hair behind her ear and then cupping the side of her face.
Leaning forward, he nuzzled his nose against the sensitive skin behind her ear, licking at it and nipping. Y/N let out a shuddered sigh and grabbed onto the sides of his open plaid shirt.
He took both sides of her face in his hands now, delicately, like she was made of something very fragile. He kissed her deeply, tongue dipping further and further into her mouth with each pass of his lips. She moaned and gripped his shirt tighter.
He sucked her bottom lip into his mouth as he pulled away, letting it go with a little pop.
"Do you like when I kiss you like that, Y/N, reaching into you, deeper and deeper?" Dean asked unnecessarily. He just wanted to hear her say it, wanted to listen to her confessions, wanted to hear her say yes again and again.
"Yes." She said quietly, still shy to talk about the passions he brought out in her. She wanted him so badly, and she knew he wanted her too. She knew he cared about her and would never hurt her.
But after years of being told her body was sinful, it was still hard for her to admit to the things she was feeling, and the things she liked.
He stood up from the couch and, grasping her hand, pulled her along down the bunker hallway and into his bedroom. He closed the door behind them and walked her backwards to his bed, kissing her ceaselessly as they moved.
He pushed her gently to sit on the bed and then to recline there against his pillows. He sat down beside her and for several minutes he just looked at her while he let his fingers glide across her cheekbones, over her forehead down the side of her neck, let his fingertips trace the contour of her lips.
"You're so unbelievably beautiful, sweetheart." Dean whispered to her, his deep, gruff, voice causing her stomach to flip flop pleasantly.
He leaned over her and kissed her softly as though he was trying to wake her from a hundred year slumber.
Dragging his lips down her neck, he spoke against her skin.
"I wanna see every inch of you, wanna put my hands on you, wanna taste the salt in your skin. I wanna feel you shake when I touch you, wanna make you come apart and watch the bliss spread across your beautiful face."
Y/N was already shaking in anticipation of feeling his hands on her bare skin, all of her bare skin.
"Do you want that, Y/N?"
She nodded emphatically.
"Say it, say you want me."
"Yes, Dean, I want you. God, please!" Y/N cried out as Dean pressed his lips to her pulse point.
He sat up again and his hands moved to the hem of her t-shirt. "Lift your arms up." He guided her and she raised them above her head.
He slowly lifted the t-shirt, dragging his hands over her ribs as he did so. When he'd pulled it off completely, he took another minute to just stare at her in the satiny, pale pink bra she wore.
His hot stare made her nipples harden and press against the cups of her bra. He brought his hand up and lazily rubbed his thumb in circles over the satin, making the hard little nub ache.
Her hands were still raised, lying on either side of her head, resting against the pillow. She closed her eyes tight and bit into her lower lip trying not to moan out her need for him. The way her blood rushed through her body, the way her core muscles were fluttering and clenching embarrassed her.
She couldn't help but feel like she was being too eager, or acting like a harlot, as her mother would say. She'd also say that men didn't really like women like that.
Dean sensed how she was holding back and stopped. "Open your eyes, sweetheart."
She did as he said and he could see her need reflected there, but he asked the question anyway. "Do you want me to stop? We can just lay here together; as long as I've got you in my arms, I'm happy."
But she was shaking her head. "No, Dean...I don't want you to stop. Please, don't stop."
Dean smiled gently. "Then what is it? You're holding back, I can tell. Are you scared? Because I promise I'm not going to do anything without asking you first."
Y/N bit her lip again and then spoke quietly. "I'm a little scared, but not of you. I'm scared I'm going to do something wrong, or stupid. Or that I'm gonna do or say something that turns you off...or...I don't know, it's all a little overwhelming. I've never felt like this before."
"Like what?"
Y/N blushed deeply, but Dean urged her on. "Tell me, sweetheart, tell me how you feel when I touch you."
She turned her head away from him, too shy to look at him when she answered.
"I feel like there's something hot against my skin, like it's branding me, but instead of wanting to pull away, it makes me want to be branded over every inch of my skin. When you're touching me in one place, I desperately want you to be touching me in all the places."
Dean placed two fingers on Y/N's chin and turned her face to him. "See, what you just said, was hot as hell. As long as all your reactions are honest, Y/N, you can't say or do anything wrong. And you're never going to turn me off by telling me what you like, whether it's with words or moans, or that breathy little sound you make when I do something like this."
Dean palmed her breast and grinned as she threw her head back and sucked in a stuttering gasp.
"Yeah, that's the one. All of those things turn me on. Big time. So tell me what you like, and tell me if you don't like something too. Tell me if I'm going too fast, or if you want me to stop."
He leaned down and kissed her slowly and thoroughly, sucking away all her breath and leaving her gasping.
He pulled back an inch and spoke against her lips. "Your pleasure turns into my pleasure, sweetheart. So, when I touch you here..."
He ran his hand up the outside of her bare thigh, his fingertips reaching just under the leg of her pajama shorts. With a slight curl of his strong fingers, he squeezed her thigh and Y/N let out a high moan.
"...and you make that noise, I know you like it and that definitely, fucking turns me on."
He moved his hands up to cup both her breasts, kneading gently, and Y/N covered them with her own, encouraging him, with her head thrown back against the pillow.
Dean leaned down and trailed featherlight kisses across the swell of her breasts. He ran his callused fingers up and down her ribcage before placing a final kiss at the top of each breast and then sitting up.
He ran the tip of his forefinger along the line of her bra.
"Will you take this off for me and let me see you, touch you, taste you?'
Y/N nodded and sat up too. She reached behind her and unhooked the material there. It hung loose on her shoulders for a moment, still covering her breasts and she thought Dean might try to remove it for her. But he stayed still, waiting for her to reveal herself to him in her own time.
She reached up and pulled on the straps, peeling the satin from her skin. Dean's eyes became almost black, his pupils crowding out the verdant green as he took in her half-naked form.
Goosebumps pebbled her skin as she watched his eyes scan over her. She was desperate to feel him caress her flesh, to feel him brand her with his fingerprints.
She looked at his mouth as he bit into his bottom lip, and a quiet whine escaped her.
"Please, Dean," she entreated, "I need you to...I need your mouth..."
She stumbled over what she was asking, but Dean understood anyway and he leaned in for a soft, brief kiss.
"Lay back " He directed her, his voice low and silky.
She laid back against the pillows, and sidled in closer to Dean as he stretched out alongside her.
"Tell me what you like, Y/N." Dean reminded her as he trailed his fingers down from her collarbone and then down over her left breast. He encircled her nipple with his blunt fingertip, before taking it between his thumb and forefinger and giving a small tug.
Y/N gasped harshly and then a deep moan issued from her throat in a voice she barely recognized as her own.
"Do you like that, sweetheart? And this?" He asked as he lowered his head to her breast and sealed his lips around her nipple, swirling his tongue around the tight bud.
Y/N plunged her hands into Dean's short locks and gripped tightly. He drew her nipple and the flesh all around it deep into his mouth and sucked hard, making Y/N yank on the hair she had entwined in her fingers.
Dean growled and Y/N dropped her hands. "Oh, Dean, I'm so sorry." She panted.
But Dean merely bit her skin gently before letting her breast fall out of his mouth.
"Don't be,"he said, and his breathing was rough too, "I like it."
His grin was all wickedness before he lowered his head to her right breast and gave it the same attention.
Y/N was soon writhing mindlessly on the bed, her hands alternating between pulling on Dean's hair as he made pleasure spike through her veins, and knotting up the bedsheets beneath her as she tried not to shout out her need.
Dean pulled his head up so his mouth was level with hers once again and kissed her long, licking into her open mouth and sucking on her tongue while his big hand alternated back and forth, squeezing and kneading first one breast and then the next.
Pulling away from her mouth and leaving her breathless, Dean moved his hand down to rest against the waistband of her shorts.
"How are you doing, sweetheart?" He asked. Y/N licked her lips and tried to speak.
"I'm...good..." She took a shuddering breath. "So good. Please don't stop."
Dean shook his head. "I won't. Are you ready to go further?" His long fingers splayed across her lower abdomen, the tips resting just above the softly rising mound beneath her thin shorts.
Y/N felt the breath whoosh out of her lungs and nervousness set in. Sensing it, Dean pulled his hand back up, covering her bellybutton.
"It's okay, sweetheart, we don't have to."
But Y/N was shaking her head. "No, I want to. I..."
She threw one hand over her eyes. "I...God Dean, I want you to touch me so badly, but..."
She trailed off, and Dean pulled her tighter against his side.
"Tell me, sweetheart. Remember, can't say anything wrong as long as it's how you really feel."
Y/N took a moment before she looked up at him and told the truth. "I've never...never been touched there."
Dean smiled gently. "Well, no, I figured."
Y/N shook her head. "No, I mean...never. Not, not even by me."
Dean's eyes widened and she felt her cheeks go red. Dean quickly schooled his features, but Y/N knew she'd shocked him. She tried to explain.
"For as long as I can remember, I was told that that..." She struggled to find words. "...area was sinful, wicked, and touching myself in any context other than to wash, meant I was depraved and perverted."
Dean was scowling deeply and Y/N was quick to reassure him. "I certainly don't believe that anymore. But it's been hard to change that deeply ingrained feeling that it's wrong. When I was..."
She cut herself off abruptly and looked away from him.
Dean kissed the cheek he could reach, brushing his knuckles gently over her cheekbone.
"You're safe, Y/N. Nothing we do here together can be wrong if we both want it and everything we say and do here is just for us and will never leave this space between us. So, what were you going to say?"
Y/N nodded, knowing she was safe, and knowing too, that the way Dean touched her was something sacred, not wicked. But she blushed over what she was saying anyway. She couldn't help it.
"When I was...pining over you, wanting you to kiss me and touch me, and sure you'd never see me like that..."
She paused and Dean took the opportunity to kiss her quick and hard. "Silly girl." He admonished.
Y/N ended the kiss smiling. "Yeah, well...anyway...I thought about you all the time. And at night I couldn't stop my mind from wandering, thinking about your beautiful face and your hands and, God your mouth!"
Y/N brought her hand up to trace his plump lips. "I couldn't help it, and the more I thought about you the more I...um...ached - down there. It got so bad, and I wanted you to touch me so much that I finally decided to...touch myself."
Y/N shrugged her face burning. "I'd long ago realized my mother's thinking was antiquated and backwards. I knew it wasn't really a big deal and that apparently people did it all the time."
She grinned shakily at Dean. "I'd watched a lot of television by that point and they certainly treated it as something comical that everyone does."
She bit her bottom lip. "But then, before I was able to work up the nerve, I started wondering whether it was disrespectful, and maybe even gross and wrong to be...thinking about you while I was touching myself so...privately. It felt wrong to do something like that to you in my head. So, I stopped myself and went to bed miserable as usual."
Y/N looked into Dean's face and saw his deep desire there, making her think she'd been mistaken, maybe it wasn't wrong. Maybe he didn't mind.
Dean took a breath in through his nostrils. "So does that mean that you've never had an orgasm?"
Y/N ducked her head. "Actually, I think I had one while I was sleeping once. I woke up just as it was ending and it was such a strange feeling. But I remembered that I'd been dreaming about you, and so I googled it, and apparently there are things called 'wet dreams'. And boy, they weren't kidding about the wet part, everything was soaked."
Dean let out a guttural groan at her innocent description. "Fuck, Y/N, you're killing me here."
She frowned at him momentarily. "Should I not have told you?"
Dean shook his head, immediately reassuring her.
"No, sweetheart, of course you can tell me. Thank you for telling me. And I promise you that the thought of you touching yourself, while you imagine that it's my hands on you, is just incredibly hot and in no way wrong or disrespectful. And I'll be honest back and tell you that I actually did think about you, quite a few times over the last year, when I was alone and stroking myself, desperately wishing it was you."
Y/N's eyes grew. "Really?"
"Hell yes. Hope you don't think it was disrespectful."
Y/N thought about it for a second and then felt her breathing pick up at the thought of him wanting her like that for so long. She shook her head.
"No, I don't." She said shyly.
Dean leaned down for another kiss, but kept it short, pulling back to sip at the corners of her mouth.
She licked his bottom lip and he groaned. He brought his hand up to run his thumb across her mouth, staring into her eyes.
"Touch yourself now."
Y/N felt like fire was racing across her skin as he gave the suggestion.
"But you're here now. Why don't you just touch me."
A muscle jumped in his jaw as he explained his reasoning. "It's your own body, Y/N. You need to feel it for yourself first, before you let me in. Learn what feels good, get to know your own flesh."
He smiled slightly. "Do you remember anything from your wet dream, I can try and reenact it for you if you want." He gave her a little wink and Y/N felt her stomach tighten.
"I don't really remember, unfortunately, but..."
Dean cocked his head. "But?"
Chewing at her lips again, Y/N gave a little shrug. "I remember what I was thinking about when I wanted to touch myself before...can I tell you?"
Dean swallowed hard. "Fuck yes."
"Okay." She said, smiling shyly at his obvious interest. "First, I imagined you taking off your clothes. I'd seen you coming out of the shower room a couple days before with just a towel wrapped around your waist and it absolutely killed me."
Dean chuckled as he rolled away and stood up. He pulled off his flannel, tossing it on the floor and then reaching for the hem of his forest green t-shirt. Y/N sat staring at him, not moving.
He let his hands fall to his side. "Lay back, and let your hands move wherever you want them."
Y/N nodded, following his instructions. As he pulled the hem of his shirt up again, slowly revealing his smooth, lightly freckled torso, Y/N put her hands on her breasts, kneading them as Dean had, though it didn't feel as intense as when he did it.
Dean turned to throw his t-shirt over the desk chair, bending to pick up his flannel and hang it there too. When she was presented with his muscular back and round backside, a soft moan slithered out of her throat and she pushed her hand beneath the waistband of her shorts.
Dean turned back to face her and when he saw one hand moving under her shorts and the other squeezing her breast, he groaned deeply and ran a hand down the front of his jeans.
She could see the large bulge pushing against his zipper and she'd seen enough movies and tv to know what that meant.
"Jesus, Y/N," he said brokenly, "you're the sexiest fucking thing I've ever seen."
Y/N bit her lip as she swirled her middle finger around the small, sensitive nub that lay nestled within the warm, wet, folds of her body.
"Will you..." She groaned as she pressed a little harder. "Would you...can I watch you touch yourself too? I...I'd really like to see it. Is that okay?"
Dean walked closer to the bed and continued to rub against the bulge in his jeans. "Yeah, sweetheart, that's more than okay."
He popped open the button on his jeans and then slowly pulled down the zipper. He pushed the denim down over his hips so that he was left in only his black boxer briefs.
His voice was strained as he cupped his hand around himself. "Do you want me to be naked, or leave these on?"
"I'd...like to see all of you, if that's alright." Y/N said breathlessly, realizing that she would never have expected to feel comfortable enough with someone to have this kind of intimate conversation. Most extraordinary of all, she wasn't embarrassed anymore, a little shy still maybe, but not embarrassed.
She knew Dean meant everything he said, that they shouldn't be ashamed to ask for what they wanted from each other. They were partners in this giving and taking of pleasure, and she absolutely loved exploring it.
He nodded in response to her request. "Can I see you too, beautiful? I wanna see your fingers moving in and out of your body, all wet and slick, wanna watch you chasing ecstasy."
Y/N nodded breathlessly and pulled her hand free of her shorts, the damp of her body clinging to her fingers as she pushed down the slightly sweaty cotton.
Dean pushed form fitting briefs down his thick, muscular thighs and they were naked together at last.
Y/N found herself gasping at the size of the appendage protruding from Dean's body. She knew the mechanics of sex, which made her suddenly concerned that it simply wasn't going to work whenever they eventually got to that part.
How on earth is he supposed to fit inside my body? Y/N thought with an exhilarated kind of fear.
But she pushed that out of her mind for now, concentrating on the way Dean's hand was running up and down his length. He took his hand off only long enough to spit in his palm and then returned it to his shaft immediately.
He caught his bottom lip with his teeth and let out a groan that had Y/N's core muscles clenching, and suddenly desperate to be filled. She instinctively pushed her hand lower, and slid one slim finger inside the opening to her body.
She let out a stuttered moan. "Oh God, Dean." She breathed.
"Yes, sweetheart, I'm here. You're so beautiful like this, Y/N, so perfect. Just keep searching, keep seeking your pleasure."
Y/N nodded, eyes closed as she thrust down against her hand, sliding another finger into herself.
As she slid her fingers in and out, her thumb found the hard nub and began to press against it as she watched Dean standing over her, muscles rippling and tense as he bucked his hips into his hand.
She suddenly felt something like an electric shock shoot through her body and she cried out in pleasure and surprise, thrashing her head side to side on the pillow.
"That's it, sweetheart. Find it, find your climax, don't be afraid of it. I'm right here, you're safe. Let me watch you come apart, let me see you dissolve into shudders and moans."
His words acted like a catalyst and she felt herself falling over the crest of a wave, felt pleasure rippling out across her skin, tingling every nerve ending and making her muscles go rigid and her toes curl.
As the pleasure blinded her she was vaguely aware of Dean's deep grunt of pleasure and his curse, and she hoped he was finding the same kind of release.
When the colored lights finally stopped popping behind her eyes, it was just in time to see Dean tossing tissues into the garbage can beside the bed before climbing in next to her, and pulling her close against him.
He kissed her temple. "You okay?"
She nodded sleepily and snuggled deeper into his chest, loving the feeling of his warm, bare skin along the length of her naked body.
"I'm so good."
Dean let out a contented rumble from his chest and pulled the blanket over them both.
Before she dozed off, she leaned up to place a slow, closed-mouth kiss against his heavenly mouth.
"Thank you, Dean. This was another first I'll never forget."
Dean kissed the top of her head. "I'm glad, sweetheart."
As she was almost asleep she whispered words that guaranteed Dean wouldn't be sleeping for a while.
"Next time though, I want it to be your fingers inside me."
Dean let out a rumbling groan and felt himself start to harden slightly again.
"Yeah, sweetheart, the next first time."
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1. Jensen RPF + Any/All characters Jensen plays.
@lyarr24
@siospins2
@impalaslytherin
@akshi8278
@maggiegirl17
@candy-coated-misery0731
@nt-multi-fandom
@slytherinlyn314
2. Dean Winchester Fics Only.
@saikoswritings
@lgranger67
@carryonwaywardgirl
3. Any/All Fics (regardless of fandom/character.)
@sunshineandwings86
@kazsrm67
@sexyvixen7
4. Everything (includes fan vid/DOOL edits as well)
@unabashed-lover-of-fictional-men
@awkward-and-indecisive
@maliburenee
@supernatural4life2022
@spn730015
@b3autyfuldisast3r
@kickingitwithkirk
@waywardbaby
@foxyjwls007
@deanwanddamons
@deandreamernp
@deanwithscissors
@myloversgone
@snowlovespie
@leigh70
@all-alone-he-turns-to-stone
@fangirlxwritesx67
@charred-angelwings
@hopefuldreamers-world
@mysherlock221b
@jensensgotyoudean
@stixnstripesworld
@thoughts-and-funnies
@magssteenkamp
@norman1967
@princessmisery666
@eevvvaa
@mishkatelwarriorgoddess
@deepsketchsupernaturalcowboy
@b-i-t-c-h-i-e
@twirpbunwarrior
@mysweetlittledesire
@waynes-multiverse
@mrsjenniferwinchester
@bernasaurus
@jensenslady79
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dyed-red · 2 years
Text
there was a post on my dash a few days ago about an interview with jensen about the prequel. he talks about casting, and about how the actor they hired for john had both sam (1) and dean (1) in him, and the actress they hired for mary had dean (2) energy (that none of the other actresses were serving, apparently). and the post rightfully pointed out that dean himself is there (3). so three deans to one sam, they noticed.
(edit: here is the link for anyone interested)
-
and looking at the reviews about how bland the pilot is, i can’t help but think that’s part of why? 
the thing that is magic about supernatural is the gravitational push and pull between sam and dean and the forces that are so much bigger than them.
you could have that in the prequel. the gravitational push and pull between john and mary and the forces that are so much bigger than them. 
it’s literally the canon backstory! 
the first time they met, they bumped into each other and (presumably on trained instincts) mary laid john on his ass then apologized, and he was smitten. but he was only smitten because of cupid’s arrow. the cupid we meet in canon tells sam and dean that their parents weren’t a good match, that they didn’t (wouldn’t?) get along, and that their relationship was ordained and the love was manufactured.
so you have the gravity, right there. the push and the pull. the fighting and the mismatch despite the passion and the love they literally cannot help but feel. and it lends itself so well to telling an unhinged story where two people meet and fall in some kind of love at first sight and are weird about each other! 
(in the way that sam and dean are weird about each other. breaking in in the middle of the night and fighting your brother is weird! disappearing out the door with someone you haven’t seen in two years while lying to your partner about why is weird! it’s all unhinged and so it compels the audience!)
to make that work on screen, you need to set up opposing dynamics so you get the push and pull, and you need chemistry. like, a lot of chemistry. the other magic of spn is the insane off the charts on screen chemistry that J2 have. lightning in a bottle, right?
the thing that made me ultimately decide not to watch the prequel was mary’s casting and character styling. despite being one of the few people actually excited about the story conceit (i love john and mary as characters!! i’m genuinely interested to see how the lying and hunting and vietnam trauma and the personality clash all played out!!), as soon as i saw the first promotional photos, the tentative hope i’d been harbouring for the show died a quiet death.
not only did this version not look much like either of the other two marys we had met in terms of face and height, but she had thick eyeliner and straight hair and a black leather jacket and a hard look and scowl. none of that jives at all with the mary we know and not just because she was sanctified in the memory of winchester men. we met young mary and she was dressed in bright tones with bright eyes! she was full of smiles (and lies), full of dreams for her own future, with bouncy curly hair and emotional frustrations and vulnerabilities. 
she was bringing sam, not dean. 
mary campbell is a rebel. she is like both her sons in different ways, much the same as john. there are parallels on both sides and i think it’s fruitless to say who is paralleled more to whom in the (main) show, who has more of who’s personality. but in that arc, in her youth, mary campbell wanting to leave the hunting life and have a civilian life with her partner john winchester was absolutely a parallel to sam’s similar yearning for freedom, for safety and simplicity. 
so we know already -- mary’s rebellion looks like sam’s rebellion. it’s not the devil may care attitude of dean, it’s a more serious and anxious rebellion against her upbringing. she’s tense but soft. easily annoyed but not sarcastic, possibly too earnest (in itself a perfect lie, something that makes her interesting because she’s anything but honest with john). doe-eyed so that when she drops you on your ass, you’re shocked. this small woman with her sweet smile is kicking your ass? what in the - ? 
casting a mary that is bringing forward features of dean, styling her in such a way as to look harsh and ‘badass’ instead of downright preppy, giving her that look and attitude and all of it? misses the point. 
there is no dean without sam. or at least no story about dean worth watching. because there is no gravitational push-pull between dean and ... dean. meaning that if both the prequel leads are bringing dean’s energy to their role, there is no chemistry. 
electricity isn’t formed without opposing charged ions. there’s no lightning in a bottle when everything is the same.
(there is no sense of pull between them to prompt a push. and when it comes time to write the push in anyway, without the pull? it will feel discordant and unconvincing to the audience’s eye. it will rankle.)
this issue sits as central, to me, even before any retconning of the original story. before the complete lack of 1970s vibe, and before what i’ve seen about them possibly(idk???) getting mary’s age wrong, and what i’ve heard about them making john bumbling or boring despite being a literal marine (who are...extreme) who quite literally just came back from vietnam, likely traumatized and intense. before the fact that they literally copy+pasted the plot of spn to the prequel with mary’s dad going missing. 
all of these features, alongside the casting issues, the styling issues, all of it right down to the original prequelgate itself, speak to the same fundamental issue - 
the prequel is missing heart. 
the lack of sam (not even in presence so much as in essence) functions like a hole in the heart of the show from which it is bleeding inward. the lack of love letter to time era, to the stylings and setting reads like a lack of love to the story itself. the lack of care put in to re-introducing us to the version of mary that we knew, those changes to her style and personality and story, read like an insult to those of us who loved her already, as if she was not worthy of a place in the heart of the creators as she already was.
i wanted to love this show. desperately, i really did. the day it leaked, before i’d heard about the rest of the ensuing prequelgate nonsense, i wrote a post in defense of the concept (since deleted). i wanted so badly to love it. i can’t. because i feel like the people creating it don’t love it. 
many will take this as a critique of jensen ackles and to some extent, it is, but mostly just a critique of trying to create a new show half-cocked while splitting his time acting on a handful of other projects instead of dedicating himself to the time and energy this show needed in order to be a success. i have no idea what his vision was for this story, and i’m not convinced he had a core vision. 
(for whatever else you might critique about kripke’s era of spn, it had a vision and it knew what it was. that vision was central to its resonance.)
more than that though, it’s a critique of all the producers and creators involved who thought that they could build off of what we already loved while gutting the core pieces we loved in the first place, while replacing these elements with their own versions instead, versions seemingly uninterested in the emotional foundations on which they were building. 
i can’t help but feel they were arrogant enough to think that making us love it would be as simple as checking boxes on a list and slapping a shine over it, thinking we’d be satisfied with the empty shell they deigned to put together. that they didn’t need to push each other, challenge the story, question the character favoritism or biases the team members were bringing to the table.
it’s the dean story with dean producers and writers and no one thought to question if they needed more balance? if the story needed more heart? if john was intense enough, if mary was sweet enough, if the characters had dimensions? 
was it ignorance? arrogance? were they all too up their own asses that they dismissed legitimate concerns as fandom wank because of prequelgate and fandom bullshit until it was too late? 
i’m sorry, that got more charged than i intended. bottom line, this isn’t a love letter to supernatural or its fans. love takes effort and dedication and care and heart. i’m not convinced the prequel has any.
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roleplayfinder · 26 days
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Heyo! 24 year old female writer here. I’m eighteen plus so please please please ensure you are before writing to me! Now a little about me, I do work, quick fire would be nice but I can’t always be here. So you may see me post more depending on what ideas I’ve got and what cravings I have. But with my time off you can guarantee I’ll be posting more! Just a heads up I’m looking for clean roleplays! I do prefer discord to conduct roleplays purely for the purpose of being able to keep things more organised! My discord is eleanorwinchester
So I’m looking for those of you who can use third person, past tense and lots of detail. I say this not to be mean but because I do consider myself to be advanced literate, I expect potential partners to be the same! I’m looking for oc (me) x male canon characters from the above movies but I will enclose further fandoms and movies with in the post! I use third and past tense and would be grateful if you do too! Please note I do have dyslexia. I’d love to get some aus going as well as some love triangles. Doubles are welcome! But please note ALL my roleplays are doubles. I will be prioritising those of you who don’t want to double and are happy to play canons. I’m just getting to a point where doubles feel transactional, I’d like to do something for myself where I can :).
I’m also craving the Sherlock, Shadowhunters, A Court of Thorns and roses, Supernatural, My Life With the Walter Boys and Hunger Games (originals and prequel),at the moment as well! I’d honestly kill for someone to play Dean Winchester atm. I think he’s a really well written character and I have some ocs who may work with him.
I’d love our roleplay to be something of comfort to us both. Something to cheer us up and keep us engaged in the story! If you’ve got any wild ideas you’ve been dying to do for the below fandoms send them my way if it’s doubles I’ll do my best to accommodate them! If there’s a character in brackets that’s who I’m looking to ship with, I need you to play them!
Fandoms I seek include:
Saltburn (Felix)
Downton Abbey (Tom)
ACOTAR (Cassian, Rhys)
Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte
Merlin (bbc show)
Shadowhunters (Jace, Julian, Mark)- PLEASE I BEG?
Sherlock (Sherlock)
Skins
Pitch Perfect
Supernatural 😍 (Dean)
The Office (us)
Brooklyn Nine Nine 😍
Superstore
My life With the Walter Boys 😍❤️ (Cole, Will)
Ginny and Georgia ❤️(Marcus)
House of the Dragon (Daemon)
Death in paradise
Riverdale
MCU (Thor, Steve, Loki)
Wuthering Heights
Teen Wolf (Stiles)
TVDU (Klaus, Elijah)
Pirates of The Caribbean (Jack)
Narnia (Caspian, Peter)
Buffy (Spike)
Hunger Games (Finnick)
Ballard of SongBirds and Snakes (Coriolanus, Sejanus)
Divergent 😍 (Four)
The Outsiders (Dallas, SodaPop)
#bxg #longterm #romance #detailed #drama #literate #advanced #dark #sweet
eleanorwinchester
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pod-together · 8 months
Text
Pod-Together Day 5 Reveals 2023
Where No Flan Has Gone Before (Star Trek) written by BookGirlFan, performed by lilolilyrae Summary: These are the reviews of the Starship Bakerprise. Its five year plan - to explore strange new pastries; to seek out new recipes and new dessert combinations. To boldly go where no flan has gone before.
Homing Beacon (Supernatural (TV 2005)) written by ReformedTsundere, performed by Ceewelsh Summary: Ambushed and captured on a recon mission, coalition fighter Dean Winchester is brought to an unknown location by an unknown party and thrown into a cell for unknown reasons. The only thing he is sure of is that he's pissed and that he's not alone.
periphery (no labels) (Tortall - Tamora Pierce) written by kitsunerei88, performed by korechthonia Summary: Lovers, Kel thought, rolling her eyes. At least there was one headache she didn’t have. She was about to tell her friend he could wait when she remembered that she’d get to see Dom while at Steadfast. It would be nice to be able to sit and chat for awhile without kidnapping, flight, and war to distract them.
Or: on falling together, in five scenes.
The Stars Are Still There (Tales of Arcadia (Cartoons)) written by Hagar, performed by klb Summary: “Please don’t be on your own,” Barbara says quietly. “Whatever you do, don’t isolate yourself. There’s very little that hurts us more than that.” “I think I learned that lesson in the Darklands,” Jim says. His voice is heavy, heavy and full of bone-deep exhaustion, of the weariness of the soul.
Death Wish [text, audio] (The Locked Tomb Series | Gideon the Ninth Series - Tamsyn Muir) written by zombified_queer, performed by mistbornhero Summary: In another life, Harrowhark Nonagesimus was raised alone. In another life, Gideon did not grow up in the shadow of the Ninth House. In another life, they still find one another.
SWSSS (Star Wars Self-Saving System) [starting text, with pensieve podfics by Flowerparrish,GodofLaundryBaskets, sisi_rambles, bluedreaming, and Litra ] (Star Wars - All Media Types, Star Wars Prequel Trilogy, 人渣反派自救系统 - 墨香铜臭 | The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System - Mòxiāng Tóngxiù) created by Opalsong, GodOfLaundryBaskets, Sisi_Rambles, bluedreaming, Litrapod, and Flowerparrish Summary: When anti-fan Shen Yuan dies of outrage at the latest piece of trash he watches, he transmigrates into the world of the Star Wars. Can he fix all the plot holes in his beloved most hated series? Or will he unintentionally make things worse? At least he’ll be able to meet Anakin for real and tell him how special he really is. Oh. And Star Wars creator Shang Qinghua is there too. Surprise!
Satisfaction Brought Her Back [text, audio] (Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008) - All Media Types) written by Trudemaethien, performed by stargateinmybasement Summary: The Torrent Command bunkroom has welcomed its newest member with open arms since Commander Cody was last able to spend any quality time there with Rex: Commander Tano. She’s an unquantified variable Cody was not expecting. Quantity and quality aren’t mutually exclusive though, and neither are the clones’ relationships. Rex is glad his two favorite commanders are able to get along so well. And Ahsoka continues to explore and expand her experiences.
Constructing a Biography (The Murderbot Diaries - Martha Wells) written by bluegeekEM, performed by kalakirya Summary: Murderbot finds the process of creating a biography for the upcoming documentary release... complicated.
All Manner of Things (Wiedźmin | The Witcher - All Media Types) written by nimblermortal, performed by Drel_Murn Summary: Julian is pretty sure he's not the Count of Lettenhove's daughter, but after he's thrown away his other marriage prospects, his father sends him to forge a political marriage with the Warlord of the North. Julian's just trying to survive, but in the face of true kingship and the Kaer Morhen Fanon Hot Springs, he might just learn to thrive. Accidental Warlord AU in which Jaskier is trans. With, perhaps, a few other changes along the way.
Reconditioning (Harry Potter - J. K. Rowling) written by BinteMuhammad, performed by SerenaEW Summary: Harry had gained an unexpected interest in potions, but that does not stop him from blowing cauldrons. To counter that, Harry throws himself headfirst in studying the theory. Ironically, he just keeps getting worse, and Harry can't figure out why. Umbridge is another obstacle, as is Professor Snape. Or is he?
The Solutions We Reach For [text, audio] (The Murderbot Diaries - Martha Wells) written by estelraca, performed by Koschei_B Summary: It was just supposed to be a boring mission for all of them--do a little archaeology, a little biology. But then they actually found the people they were doing the archaeology on, and, well, things got a lot more complicated.
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