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runin-reads · 6 months

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James/Lily vs James/Sirius: a case of accidental queer coding

Jily (James/Lily) is a pairing central to the HP universe in the sense that had they not been married, Harry Potter, the main character, would cease to exist and neither would his story as we know it. Yet we are left with only a few brief glimpses of their relationship in canon whilst other pairings are textually far more fleshed out– take Prongsfoot (James/Sirius), for example, who are frequently portrayed as The Duo, not just by those closest to them (Lupin) but by many others too such as McGonagall, Flitwick and so on. Harry himself could see how close they were during SWM in OOTP and this is someone who had a very limited time with Sirius and close to none with James.

Queercoding is described as “the subtextual coding of a character in media as queer. Though such a character's sexual identity may not be explicitly confirmed within their respective work, a character might be coded as queer through the use of traits and stereotypes recognisable to the audience.” One character comes to mind when I think of “queercoding” and that’s Sirius Black. He’s estranged from his family, goes against the norms associated with his upbringing, there’s no mention of any ex-girlfriends and most notably he has intense love and devotion for his male best friend; James Potter. At first glance, James had led an incredibly hetero-normative life by virtue of his wife and son, but through his relationship to Sirius there’s leeway to reach a queer reading of him as well.

As recognised by countless characters and even Sirius himself, Prongsfoot come in a two-for-one deal:

“Do you remember who his best friend was?” “Naturally,” said Madam Rosmerta, with a small laugh. “Never saw one without the other, did you? The number of times I had them in here — ooh, they used to make me laugh. Quite the double act, Sirius Black and James Potter!” “Black and Potter. Ringleaders of their little gang. Both very bright, of course — exceptionally bright, in fact…” “You’d have thought Black and Potter were brothers!” chimed in Professor Flitwick. “Inseparable!”

The use of the word “brothers” in the above quote is one reason why fans don’t interpret Prongsfoot as queer-coded and/or romantic. However, it’s important to note that Sirius never referred to James as a brother, and there’s no canonical proof to suggest that Flitwick was close to James and Sirius– he was their teacher, not their friend or confidant. He isn’t calling them “brothers” either but rather he’s saying that word to express how strong their bond was. Hence why I believe an exclusively fraternal reading of their relationship doesn’t hold much weight.

They are, however, established as each other’s closest friend and most trusted confidant.

“Harry had the distinct impression that Sirius was the only one for whom James would have stopped showing off.” “Potter trusted Black beyond all his other friends. Nothing changed when they left school. Black was the best man when James married Lily. Then they named him godfather to Harry. “I persuaded Lily and James to change to Peter at the last moment, persuaded them to use him as Secret-Keeper instead of me.” “Lily and James only made you Secret-Keeper because I suggested it,” Black hissed

On multiple occasions James and Sirius were described as a unit– The Unit– within their friend group. Lupin said they were “the cleverest students in the school.” They were the “ringleaders” of the Marauders; always on the same page and in agreement with each other.

“Then, with identical fluid movements, they reached into their back pockets.”

Even during their very first encounter, they quickly and effortlessly become a team.

“Got a problem with that?” “No,” said Snape, though his slight sneer said otherwise. “If you’d rather be brawny than brainy–” “Where’re you hoping to go, seeing as you’re neither?” interjected Sirius. James roared with laughter.

This excerpt from DH also neatly sums up the Marauders group dynamic:

“To Sirius’s right stood Pettigrew, more than a head shorter, plump and watery-eyed, flushed with pleasure at his inclusion in this coolest of gangs, with the much-admired rebels that James and Sirius had been. On James’s left was Lupin, even then a little shabby-looking, but he had the same air of delighted surprise at finding himself liked and included”

Lily herself acknowledged Sirius’ importance in James’ life in her letter to Sirius, where she all but says that only he could lift James’ mood whilst the Potters’ were hiding from Voldemort’s forces.

“James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries not to show it but I can tell — also, Dumbledore’s still got his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions. If you could visit, it would cheer him up so much.”

On the other hand, Jily is portrayed in a less compelling way for lack of better words. I spoke about this in my other meta but to summarise it briefly: Lily is James’ wife, the mother of his son and… that’s pretty much it. In the books they’re barely spoken about as a couple, unlike Prongsfoot who are always mentioned together as if they were a package deal– which they were, as recognised by practically everyone. That’s not to say Jily has zero textual backing, though it is far and few between.

“How come she married him?” Harry asked miserably. “She hated him!” “Nah, she didn’t,” said Sirius. “She started going out with him in seventh year,” said Lupin. “Once James had deflated his head a bit,” said Sirius. “And stopped hexing people just for the fun of it,” said Lupin.

Conclusion

What we do know about James and Lily’s relationship is limited to the following: Lily disliked James because he and Snape were enemies, James developed feelings for her first, they began dating in seventh year once James had matured, they got married when they were nineteen to twenty years old, had a child together. The end.

On the contrary, James and Sirius are constantly implied to be each other’s closest, most loyal friend; each other’s most trusted confidant. They are equals in every conceivable way. Both were popular, from wealthy backgrounds and intelligent. Throughout the entire series Sirius’ only priority was Harry, James’ son. He went through unfathomable lengths to protect Harry: he was the first to escape Azkaban, he snuck into Hogwarts with all the dementors around and lived off rats during the GOF so he could be close to Harry, the last piece of James he had left.

There’s also evidence to suggest Sirius was a narrative parallel to Snape. There are two adults in Harry’s life who sought to protect him due to their respective relationships with one of his parents. Snape was a double agent for Dumbeldore out of love for Lily; Sirius escaped Azkaban to protect Harry out of love for him, an extension of his love for James.

All these factors are why I believe that by not fleshing out Lily as a character and Jily as a couple, JKR accidentally queer-coded Prongsfoot.

#prongsfoot #bambibelle #starbucks #jily #james potter #sirius black #lily evans #marauders #james x sirius #hp meta #relationship study #prongsfoot meta

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serpenera · 8 months

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One of the things that most irks me in the HP, and especially Snape discourse, is the misinterpretation of the meaning of the patronus. The general consensus seems to be that the shape of the patronus indicates one’s true love but that is a massive oversimplification that creates numerous inconsistencies. In other words, when we look at it like that, the patronus makes NO SENSE. Except the patronus makes PERFECT SENSE. Just let me explain.

The patronus, as we know, is a charm that repels Dementors - an anthropomorphized representation of clinical depression. Keep that in mind as this is important. You conjure it by focusing on a happy memory or should I rather say a happy thought.

Memory is the word Lupin uses when he first explains the patronus to Harry and I’d argue this is the reason why Harry initially fails at conjuring one. He remembers his first time on a broom and winning the house cup. Both happy memories to doubt but “not powerful enough” as Lupin puts it. So what makes a powerful memory?

Harry tries again and succeeds by focusing on the memory of finding out he was a wizard and would be leaving the Dursleys and going to Hogwarts. What makes this memory different than the other two is that it wasn’t just that of a fleeting moment of glee but of an event that marked a major change in Harry’s life, a change for the better. Yes, it was a moment from the PAST but one that influenced Harry’s PRESENT and FUTURE.

See, this is the key to understanding the patronus. The trick is not to remember a happy past long gone, it’s to find something in the past that gives you a reason to move forward. Anyone, who’s ever been depressed to the point of wanting to off themselves will know what I’m talking about here. And those who don’t, good for you.

Anyway, back to Harry. When he conjures his first fully corporeal patronus at the end of PoA, he thinks of going to live with Sirius. And when he uses the spell again in GoF he thinks of celebrating the end of the Tournament with Ron and Hermione. In both cases, he doesn’t even recall an event of the past but projects into the future. And note that regardless of whom or what he thinks of (and not once does he think of his dad), his patronus stays a stag. Even after his love and admiration for James falters due to the discovery of SWM, his patronus stays a stag. This is because the stag, while visually traceable back to James, does not represent James as a person but rather a concept that James himself is a representation of. The stag stands for family, legacy, and a sense of belonging. What keeps Harry moving forward despite all the obstacles is not the mere memory of having had a dad once, it’s the realization that he’s not alone in the world, that he has friends who care about him, and that he’s part of a community.

If we look at the patronus through this lens we can logically explain the shape and origin of all the major ones present in the books.

Snape is often accused of being a stalker incel and whatnot because (apparently) his doe patronus is the same as Lily’s.

First of all, did you pull that information out of your ass? ‘Cause I checked and nowhere in the book(s) does it say what shape her patronus was. The same goes for James. He was a stag animagus. We don’t know what shape his patronus was. That, assuming they both even knew the charm. Although, as Order members, they probably did. If they hadn’t learned it at school, Dumbledore or another Order member would’ve taught them.

Okay, for the sake of this argument, let’s assume that James’ patronus was in fact a stag and Lily’s was a doe and also that the animals represent them respectively. People will argue that the fact the patronuses match (they don’t actually cause they’re two different species of deer but never mind) implies they were each other’s soulmates. To back that argument they will cite Tonks’ patronus which changed into a wolf after she fell in love with Lupin. At the same time, they will argue that Snape’s doe indicates an unhealthy obsession with Lily. Can you spot the issue with this reasoning?

Snape’s and Tonks’ cases are analog: their patronuses turn into animals related to the other person. And yet in Snape’s case, it’s obsession, and in Tonks’, it’s love?

Lily/James and Tonks’ cases are opposite: Lily/James patronuses turn into animals related to themselves while Tonks’ turns into one related to her love interest. But in both cases, it’s true love?

If Snape’s obsessed with Lily then Tonks is obsessed with Lupin and Lily and James are just obsessed with themselves. Contrarily, if Tonks loves Lupin then Snape loves Lily, and Lily and James, again, just love themselves respectively. Moreover, if you follow either logic, Harry is obsessed / in love with James and Dumbledore with Fawkes.

See how none of that makes ANY SENSE whatsoever? Also, no, it’s not a plothole. Y’all are just looking at it wrong. Now let’s rewind and analyze all of these the same way we did with Harry’s at the beginning of this rant.

James’ case is very straightforward. Similarly to Harry, James finds meaning in the traditional idea of family, clan legacy, and belonging. Remember how on the train to Hogwarts he says he wants to be a Gryffindor just like his dad? That, in my opinion, is already very telling, and considering that right after school James marries the girl he decided would be the future mother of his children and promptly gets her pregnant we can easily deduce what he values and what he believes his higher purpose to be. When facing a Dementor and being consumed by despair, perhaps remembering the loss of his parents and perceived betrayal of his best friends, in order to push through he certainly focuses on his wife and especially his son.

Lily’s doe patronus has nothing to do with Snape. Or with James for that matter. Instead, it has everything to do with Harry. See, many real-life women who find themselves at the edge of despair for one reason or another declare they only push forward because of their children. I think Lily is no different. I mean, she did die trying to protect her child. So I think that facing a Dementor, she thinks of Harry. Her wish to be there for her son and protect him is what keeps her going forward despite everything. She has to be strong because she is needed and that is what her doe stands for.

The doe and the stag, somewhat complementary animals, both symbolize family-related but very different concepts. The stag carries a distinctly masculine meaning, that of the passing of legacy and prolonging the bloodline. The doe has a more feminine feel, that of nurturing and protecting.

Snape’s patronus is the same animal as Lily not because he loves her or is obsessed or even just friends with her. It’s the same because both these characters find purpose in the same thing: being needed.

While for Lily this mindset seems to stem from her motherhood, for Snape it seems to have always been there and for very a different reason. The severe neglect he experienced in his early childhood conditioned him to always seek external validation. It’s as if he couldn’t find value in himself unless someone else found it in him. This is why he was trying so hard to be useful to Lily when they first became friends. This is why he got himself groomed by the Death Eaters. This is also why he was so easily manipulated by Dumbledore.

Speaking of Dumbledore, he has to have taught Snape the patronus charm and it must have happened sometime between his defection and the Potters’ death. Now imagine what that might have looked like.

Dumbledore explains how the patronus works. Snape tries, recalling one of his happy childhood moments with Lily, and fails. He chooses another memory and fails again. Dumbledore tells him it has to be something really powerful. Snape is out of ideas, the only happy memories he has are of his childhood friendship with Lily but that friendship is over, it has been for a while, she’s married to his bully and having his child, and on top of that, she’s being targeted by Voldemort and it’s all his fault. Reminiscing their past together is nowhere near enough to fuel the patronus. Then Snape projects into the future in which thanks to him, Lily is safe, she forgives him for his past mistakes and they make up. This time he successfully conjures his trademark doe.

I imagine that, after Lily died, Snape would have had trouble producing a patronus. That would be until Dumbledore pointed out how even in death she still needed him to protect her child. He would then focus on a future in which Voldemort is defeated, Harry is safe, his debt with Lily is paid and his sins are redeemed.

Dumbledore knows that Snape’s doe patronus is related to Lily but it’s probably because he taught him the charm himself and in doing so he learned that it was thoughts and memories of her that fueled it. Not because it was (presumably, mind you) the same shape as hers.

That said, I’m firmly convinced that if Snape had survived the war he would again have had trouble producing a proper patronus, not because of any change in his feelings towards Lily but rather because with Harry safe and Voldemort gone, he’d find himself lacking a purpose. If, for example, he got himself involved with someone else, someone who would make him feel needed, he might be able to produce a patronus again but it would most certainly remain a doe.

Tonks’ patronus is an interesting one because it actually changes its shape in the course of the narrative. We know it became a wolf after Tonks fell in love with and started dating Lupin.

Yes, it’d be easy to assume that the wolf represents the character whose name is literally Wolfy McWolf and who’s also a werewolf but that would be both shallow and inaccurate.

Tonks’ wolf, not unlike Lily and James’ stag and dear, is symbolically tied to the concept of family and friendship. We don’t know what drove Tonks forward before she became involved with Lupin but we can easily deduce that what drives her afterward is the thought of being with him. When she conjures her patronus, she probably thinks of a future in which they have a proper relationship or perhaps start a family. When Snape makes a dab at her patronus he isn’t just being mean. Knowing Lupin, he probably expects him not to take responsibility for his actions towards Tonks and wiggle out of the relationship the moment things get a little bit too serious for his liking. In saying her patronus is weak he’s trying to warn her not to put her faith in Lupin.

In the end, I’d like to mention Dumbledore’s patronus. Just like a phoenix is reborn from its ashes, Dumbledore rises up from the pit of his troubled youth. When in the vicinity of a Dementor, he must be plagued by thoughts of his misplaced aspirations, of Ariana’s death, and his fall out with Grindelwald. The thought I believe he focuses on in those moments is that of having rehabilitated himself in the eyes of society, and having ultimately become a champion of the light.

#harry potter meta #Patronus meta #Patronus

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forestdeath1 · 1 month

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I never thought this day would come, the day I have to remind Snape stans that Severus Snape was a great wizard, no matter his values, but him hiding between the bushes from James Potter is on a whole new level of omg what 😱?!

The whole scene in SWM starts with an exam, students being dismissed after it ended, the marauders talking between themselves and Snape absorbed in his examination questions.

Still poring over the paper and apparently with no fixed idea of where he was going. ( HPand OOTP page 644 )

Then we have Snape reviewing his O.W.L paper as he -settled himself on the grass in the dense shadows of a clump of bushes-. ( same page )

Have you never sat somewhere to review over your exam paper absent-mindedly yourself? 😂

Now, here is when the scene of James and Sirius vs. Snape unfolds:

As he ( Snape ) emerged from the shadows of the bushes and set off across the grass, Sirius and James stood up. ( HP and OOTP page 645 )

Is it me or he wasn't hiding at all?

I am not going to start a morality discussion about bullying and his interactions with James Potter, because it is not relevant to this. However, I would like to mention here ( as I have done before in anything I have written on this matter ) , I am neither justifying James nor Snape.

What really rubs me the wrong way is how some people in the fandom refuse to see Severus Snape's talent and power, even his own stans. Why would you portray him as a poor weakling wizard? He invented lots of new charms and jinxes during his school days. He modified lots of potions, be the instructions or ingredients, to amplify or simplify them and later he was knowledgeable enough to even halt Dumbledore's death for about a year despite the curse of Marvolo Gaunt's ring with it's ancient magic and being a Horcrux with his own incantations and potions.

My point is, Severus Snape was talented enough to achieve those things. Point is not them being dark or not, point is achieving. ( as I said I am not talking about morality here)

Canon Snape didn't need to hide between the bushes people, respect your favourite character.

#severus x bushes #severus snape #anti fanon severus snape #justice for snape #hp meta

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kittenjammer · 3 months

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Hi! So I was going through your snape tag (btw sorry for the million notifications you probably got), and I noticed you weren’t very much a fan way back on the early days of your blog. Feel free to completely ignore this if you don’t feel like answering (it is truly none of my business), but I’m always fond of hearing people’s “how I came to like this character” or “why I changed my mind about this character” stories and I was wondering what yours was :)

Hiii! Thanks for the ask! (No worries on the notification spam lol) and I appreciate that you reached out!

Yes! I think he was one of the characters I had the most difficulty empathizing with because I had such a strong, emotional reaction to him. Especially after OotP forward. He's divisive! (Also looking back through my Snape tag has me internally cringing a bit with how little grace I extended to the poor guy...ah well. With age/maturity comes wisdom...? D: )

I'm ngl, after reviewing some of the earlier posts, my immediate reaction is to delete them as my opinions have definitely changed, but maybe it's good to leave it as a record of my evolving mindset towards the character? lol

Ok, so what changed?

Well, it certainly helps I'm now closer to adult Snape's age from Book 1 than Harry's age when I was first reading the HP series as it was being published. I didn't give much thought to Snape beyond he was a mean teacher and a bully, for the first four books at least.

I got into the HP fandom around when GoF had been released so I was discovering plenty of fanfic and fan meta. Snape was one of the more ... well ... fans reactions to him that liked him or even wrote him sexually with the cast confused middle-school me, to be honest. I was more interested in the child characters than the adults, so I was vaguely aware of how he was portrayed in fandom but didn't really engage.

This changed after OotP was released, and we finally got some explicit Severus Snape backstory and history with the Occlumency lessons. I had a really an emotional reaction to SWM and some of the memories we got a glimpse of. I was empathetic and not completely surprised to learn Snape was from an abusive home, that he had possible trauma and issues that explained his actions and why he was so cold and angry. Like Harry, I was really disappointed in how his father and Sirius treated Snape. There's just no excuse for how they sought him out to pick on him for fun. I was on Harry's side with confronting Sirius and Lupin about how his dad and they acted.

Also, I read everything with shipper eyes, and immediately felt there was more to Severus and Lily's relationship beyond her just coming over and reacting to James actions lol. They called Jily a crack!ship but it looks like they were validated in the end lol.

However what really made me emotionally react with anger was that we are basically being shown that Severus knows what it's like to be a scared child being abused and tormented by authority figures and other children, but he does it to his students?? I could not understand his actions at a time but I would get genuinely angry when I did think about it. To child me, this felt like a betrayal, both for a fictional character and when actual people did this. Looking back I was reacting so strongly due to my own personal experience with trauma in the home and with authority figures abusing children.

I recall not caring much about him in HBP or DH. I was much more upset with Sirius' death than Dumbledore's, so Snape's "betrayal" was just not something I recall reacting emotionally to. In DH, I definitely remember reading his memories and just feeling irritated with him. To me, he was a guy with trauma and emotional issues, sure, but I felt his behavior towards Harry, Hermione, and Neville was not excused for me. At most I felt begrudging respect for him and acknowledged he was not a completely terrible person. Harry naming one of his son's after him felt so bizarre, and I just could not understand why Harry wanted to honor him. Forgive him, sure I could understand Harry doing that, but naming his child after Snape just left me feeling confused. I could not understand how Snape could have loved Lily so much, but treated her son like he did.

I know I'm basically rambling, but it really has been a journey. :P

When I grew out of HP and the fandom after DH was published, I never gave much thought to him or his circumstances until I (unexpectedly) returned to the HP fandom last summer. I reread all of the books as an adult and I had the life experience and maturity to understand that:

A) Snape was funny! A lot funnier than I remember.

B) His actions throughout the book were too subtle for teenage me, but they made me really question my previous feelings for the character.

C) Everyone Dumbledore was kind of terrible to him!

I read a lot of really well written meta on the characters and HP. Specifically I think it was @pet-genius posts on reddit I found that really helped me put my thoughts and feelings regarding HP, primarily Harry, in order. And I can't help but compare and contrast Harry and Severus as characters and how they each approach their trauma and grief.

@ashesandhackles metas on Snape was also really helpful in highlighting the examples in the text that showed how Snape's actions sometimes directly contradict with what he said, especially to Harry. He's always presenting himself as this cold and controlled person, disparaging emotional reactions and connections. Yet he's one of the most emotionally reactive characters in the series next to Harry!

I was able to see clearer a lot of things I liked about him. That he's an incredibly skilled and hardworking person. That he cares very deeply for people he does allow himself to have feelings for and connections to. That he was scared, so scared, probably all the time after Voldemort's return to power, but he never wavered in his determination to continue to show up and fulfill his duty. Him making the Vow with Narcissa to try to protect Draco. The incredible pain he must have been in when he used the Killing Curse on Dumbledore, the one person left that knew everything about him and still valued him. That he dies keeping silent about the Elder Wand ownership, protecting Draco from becoming Voldemort's next target.

I also viewed his relationship with Lily as so much more complex than unrequited love. There's a meta out there (I will edit this post and link it if I find it again) that argues Snape wasn't really in love with Lily, and that "Always" quote is so much deeper than a romantic, or sexual, type of feelings for her. I think it argues that Snape elevated Lily to a symbol of Good, or at least used her memory to guide him on morality. I felt so much more respect for the guy that he had dedicated his life as penance, basically, for betraying his once-best friend once more.

This is getting long, I hope this wasn't too much. I have changed my feelings on how Severus treated Harry and the other kids close to him in that year's class. Looking at how he acts to others and comparing to how he acts with Harry, I now now I feel Harry was a very specific trigger for Severus and he showed Harry and Harry's potions class a side of him that he generally did not show to anyone else. This is just my personal interpretation based on how other adults, from Dumbledore to even Lupin, and kids speak of Snape as a professor and seem to think Harry is just exaggerating that Snape hates him. When, no, Snape really is projecting his hate and rage and grief about James and Lily onto Harry and he does actually hate the kid. Which, it's probably easier for Severus to think he hates Harry rather than hates himself.

I could keep going but I will stop here for now. I hope that answers the question? But feel free to chat more :) I hope you don't mind I responded with a blog post, I can take it down if you would rather it be answered privately lol.

I suppose the tl;dr version is that Snape makes me angry because he makes me feel things about myself that I don't like, but with age and reading other people's thoughts on the character has definitely made me come around to they guy!

#severus snape #hp meta #hp

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mytoesfelloff · 2 years

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BRO someone please teach me to reply to to things I’m sick of doing this but whatever I’ll bite. I haven’t had the physical books in my hand for a while but the internet is free thank god so I have still read the books online recently. I also use the word nazi because JK uses many allusions to hitler and his whole thing while talking about the death eaters, in an effort to show how similar the logic between a Nazi and a Death eater is. Ik that term is heavy I am educated on what it means and on its implications (again with the personal insults like what did I do to y’all ��) thank you, but if that makes you uncomfortable then I guess “terrorist in training” would also be a good way to describe teen Snape and Draco. I love the alliteration and it’s not to specific in a way that’ll make people uncomfortable, I think I’ll use it more.

Here’s JK showing that she wanted us to look at the death eaters and Voldemort and think nazis and hitler: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/features/essays/issue27/nazi-germany/

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/10/20/j-k-rowling-at-carnegie-hall-reveals-dumbledore-is-gay-neville-marries-hannah-abbott-and-scores-more/

Q: Many of us older readers have noticed over the years similarities between the Death Eaters tactics and the Nazis from the 30s and 40s. Did you use that historical era as a model for Voldemort’s reign and what were the lessons that you hope to impart to the next generation?

The LC is just an older transcript if you could say of JK’s interviews and fan meets and whatever that shit is called where you answer the audiences questions live. I’m blanking rn.

It was conscious. I think that if you’re, I think most of us if you were asked to name a very evil regime we would think Nazi Germany. There were parallels in the ideology. I wanted Harry to leave our world and find exactly the same problems in the wizarding world.

#hp #harry potter #anti snape #anti severus snape #anti draco malfoy #let me grab a microphone brb #is this thing on? ok #MALFERRET AND SWM WAS FUNNY #Just so we don’t forget what I said that started the longest back and forth I’ve had on the app so far #terrorist in training has a nice ring to it

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seriousbrat · 2 months

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sorry for the essays but what's also legitimately fascinating to me tbh is this mass delusion about there being no information in canon, and the poor marauders fandom being forced to come up with their own ideas to fill in the perceived blanks lest they starve. Ik it's been a while since the books and people have forgotten details but it feels like going insane, I guess SWM and Prince's Tale were just fever dreams that I had lmao.

Despite JKR's obvious shortcomings as a person I don't think there's any denying that characters are absolutely one of her strong suits as a writer. Characters that are much more minor in the narrative still feel very fleshed out, like I feel like I've got a pretty good sense of, say, Dedalus Diggle even though he has probably 3 lines. But we're constantly being pelted with information about the Marauders; enough to have a whole legion of fans obsessed with them for decades. If they're just blank slates why are they so interesting to so many people?

authors aren't required to explain EVERY facet of their worlds, that has never been the case and in fact I think hp is unusual in that we've received a lot of extra content over the years.

I think it must be a (juvenile, imo) expectation for everything to be over-explained and lain out for the audience in the simplest, most straightforward ways-- otherwise, it might as well not exist. I mean basic reading comprehension in younger generations is obv declining significantly but the fact that people have no ability to tie together the simplest ideas and draw inferences unless they are EXPLICITLY STATED is wild. it reminds me of this post about the house-elves in hp.. the fact that it's a commonly held view that jkr's intention was to excuse slavery lol. like I as a 12 year old easily picked up on the fact that kreacher's tale and dobby's death were supposed to be lessons for harry-- it's pretty explictly stated in the books idk-- the fact that fully grown adults cannot comprehend ideas meant for children is sooo embarrassing

#it's like theyre expecting a character to turn around to face the camera and go #'and the moral lesson we must learn from this is that slavery is bad'#wrt to the marauders yeah there is obviously information missing but that's because they're secondary characters #and james and lily are literally dead. lol.#like ok there is not a LOT of info about lily bc as i said in a diff post her character is so important tothe central mystery #but they're never talking about lily when they say this anyway lol.#and even so i feel like there is enough info to draw reasonable inferences. certainly there is with james

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ashesandhackles · 9 months

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HP Reread - Order of Phoenix (part 1)

OOTP - Chapter 1,2,3

love how oppressive the atmosphere is from the beginning. It's a drought and Harry is lying in a flowerbed that is dying. It's also a great way to show Harry's desperation for news. Also that he scavenges newspapers from rubbish bins :(

Vernon grabs Harry by the throat and Harry has to magically throw him off. ( Harry takes care to "stop short of the point at which Uncle Vernon's outstretched hands could resume their strangling"). Not the first time the threat of physical violence exists from Vernon.

Harry feeling comforted by Sirius' letters even though they are just as empty of news. (also amusing that Harry recognises the hypocrisy of Sirius asking him not to be rash XD the "do as I say and not as I do" parent)

Harry's neighbours being terrified of "that Potter boy" who they have been warned is a hooligan (and they keep muttering about his "delinquent" appearance). Petunia will also refer to Snape as "that awful boy": drawing similarities in how they are perceived in the Muggle world.

"This is night Diddykins. That's what they call it when it goes all dark like this" LOL

Right after Dudley taunts him, hits him and Harry fully feels his hatred of 14 years for him, Harry's first instinct is to yell at Dudley to come back when they are in danger. I love how his priorities immediately shift when he knows someone is in danger.

Harry casts a spell without a wand in his hand.

As angry as he is with Ron and Hermione, it is their faces that gives his Patronus the force it needs.

This is the book where Dudley faces a Dementor, and is implied to grow up and reflect in the next two books. I think this is significant: especially because this is the book James is also humanised. We get a lot of fandom complaints about how we don't get to see James growing up - that it is told, and not shown. James (and Lily) are meant to be thematic ghosts, Harry will never fully know them and that's the point. And bullies grow up: Dudley did, and so does James. (Harry makes the Dudley-James connection in SWM, and then later on compares James to Ron.)

Is Mr. Tibbles a Kneazle? The cat warned Mrs Figg when Mundungus left.

I really feel for Harry - who gets a "mingled feeling of dread and anger" when Dudley names him. And the odd feeling of calm he gets when he is threatened with the worst - the risk to his wand.

The awful boy Petunia is referring to is Snape.

I really, really love the moment between Petunia and Harry here, where her walls crumble and she shows fear of the man who killed her sister.

Love that Dumbledore sends a Howler: and it is described as an "Awful voice" that filled the confines of the kitchen. I've always interpreted that Dumbledore is surprised by how much he cares about Harry, and this is a moment Dumbledore allows himself to be angry with Dursleys, in particular, Petunia. (I back this up with his admission at end of the book: "I cared too much about you" - and I think him loving Harry was a surprise to him)

Harry addresses the first letter to Sirius, second to Ron, and third to Hermione. I think the order is who he feels most ownership of. Sirius is his.

Harry feeling guilty about being irritable with Hedwig <3 although now I want a Hedwig POV of how she pecked Sirius, Ron and Hermione after Harry asked her to xD

Kingsley talks of James with familiarity, even though he was not part of the Order before.

love how Tonks and Mad Eye are interacting this chapter. She is the charmingly impertinent protege, questioning his paranoia. XD

Remus being cheeky by calling Tonks "Nymphadora". He had to have known at this point that she wants to be called Tonks.

Elphias Doge: Dumbles friend who he was supposed to travel with prior to Ariana's death i think? Also comments on Harry having Lily's eyes.

love that Remus, quite like Sirius, also reads the expression on Harry's face and answers the thought.

we also get the info that Ted Tonks is a slob, while Andromeda is so neat that she gets socks to fold themselves.

the chapter, even with threeway dynamic with Tonks, Kingsley, and Mad Eye, also places Tonks and Remus as a team.

Chapter 4,5,6

There is no keyhole or letterbox in Grimmauld Place, but Remus taps the door with his wand and chains clatter. Something Orion added or Dumbles?

"it was as though they had entered a house of dying person". Thanks for that JKR. But also - its about the Ozymandias vibe of the dying line of Blacks.

aiyooo, Harry being momentarily happy at the sight of them but the reminder they were sworn not to tell him anything, so he pays attention to Hedwig and ignores both of them. Hermione and Ron, bless them, try to get him to talk because they both see how broody he is lol. They even exchange looks that Harry catches XD

Also, Ginny's favouritism for Bill. Bill's opinions "settle the matter" for her.

Ginny, the good liar. (she accuses Crookshanks of putting Dungbombs on the meeting door, when it was her to Mrs Weasley) I think its such an interesting shade of her - and combined with the offscreen storyline in CoS, gives a good dimension to her.

aww Harry feels ashamed of shouting at Ron and Hermione because they both look nervous when everyone is gone :( and the fact that he is apologetic is immediately picked by both of them, with Ron shaking his head (similar to GOF where harry cuts him off before he can apologise) and Hermione assuring him that they really did try.

Snape is in the center of the Order group: his work is crucial to the Order.

What a charming portrait, this Walburga. Also, what a fun introduction to Sirius this book : "blood traitor, abomination, shame of my flesh" "Hello Harry. I see you met my mother."

Mundungus wakes up from sleep and reflexively agrees with Sirius as though they were in a meeting. Lollll.

Walburga puts a permanent sticking charm on back of her portrait, Sirius has permanent sticking charm for his very specific room decoration. The apple doesnt fall far from the tree, lol. (Thanks @artemisia-black this particular insight)

Crookshanks takes the time to greet Harry and jumps into Sirius' lap :<3 best friends.

The moment Sirius says he is stuck inside the house for a month, Harry immediately frowns. The boy knows what it is like being stuck inside a house that does not want you.

Snape taking jibes at Sirius by asking him how the cleaning is going, lol. "how is the cleaning going?" "fuck off"

Bill being the family peacemaker when Mrs Weasley drops Percy's name and Mr Weasley immediately freezes. Remus being cute and handing her a plate of stew after the awkward moment.

"Harry heard the sarcasm in his voice, he was not sure anyone else did." The way Harry is so attuned to Sirius.

lol at Hermione and Ginny requesting favourite noses from Tonks.

the discussion between Bill, Mr Weasley and Remus about goblins is so interesting! Both Bill and remus have practical POVs, while Arthur is more of an idealist, emotion driven. Also love that Remus identifies himself among oppressor of goblins by saying "we", when he himself is a class of people oppressed by the wizarding society. Gentleman werewolf <3

LOL at Mrs Weasley throwing a Look at Sirius about Mundungus and he immediately Gets It ("She still hasnt forgiven him for slipping off duty when he was supposed to be tailing you"). The two hosts of the house having an issue and Harry is like "what is happening?" XD

Sirius is also so attuned to Harry. He knows that the first thing Harry would do is start asking questions about Voldemort the moment he arrived.

"Harry's been trapped in that Muggle house for a month": the way both Harry and Sirius intimately know what this means.

"it is not down to you to decide what's good for Harry": it's interesting to me how Molly challenges Sirius' guardianship here. There is an element of possessiveness over Harry they both show - but I wonder if Molly is also a bit shaky cos of loss of Percy at the moment, and stress of war.

Arthur is so allergic to conflict that he will take his time cleaning his glasses before deciding on a reply lol. Remus ends the conversation by rephrasing what Sirius said. XD

Remus deescalates the tension in this scene, but he is also offended on behalf of Sirius (he speaks "sharply"). Also Molly recognises that she has gone too far in the scene, her lip trembles after she says this and the next time she addresses Sirius, she is trembling then too

Sirius and Remus tag teaming to tell Harry info. (also they exchange a look when Harry asks about the weapon. I know Sirius answers this, but Remus also takes ownership of this moment - "we said too much" and thats an interesting characterisation moment for me for Remus)

love the bitterness in Sirius' voice about how Ministry does not want to face the fact that Voldemort's back. He is so angry - on his behalf, on Harry's behalf. Most of his anger about how his life has turned out is directed to the Ministry.

lol at Dumbledore not caring what they do as long as he is not taken off Chocolate Frog cards.

Fred betting that Ginny is lying awake waiting for Hermione to tell her EVERYTHING XD

Phineas makes his presence felt even though his canvas is empty: he snickers during the argument, and they can hear him sleep. I suppose for portraits: they can hear things of the canvas they are connected to even though they are not there?

"he's got the Cruciatus curse for causing pain. He doesnt need anything more efficient than that." Oh Harry.

lol at Sirius and Molly being extra polite to each other after their disagreement.

love the moment where George sees Harry watching Fred pocket a Doxy, and explains their products and experiment to him.

"my mother didn't have heart. She kept herself alive out of pure spite" :( "I've had enough": something harry says in POA when he leaves.

Alphard gets blasted off posthumously for leaving Sirius gold lol.

"my idiot, soft enough to believe them": the way Sirius minimises his brother's agency and leaves the blame at his parents' door about Regulus being a Death Eater. "i bet my parents thought Regulus was a right little hero for joining up at first"

Harry, sensing Sirius' feelings actually asks him tentatively about Regulus' death: "was he killed by an Auror?" also when Mrs Weasley comes back with lunch, Harry remains with Sirius.

Sirius getting angry at the suggestion he is related to Bellatrix. And yet, the interesting thing narrative does in the books is evoke strong parallels between them - the exhilarated laugh before their defeat, the good looks being wasted but also traits that don't get pointed out as much: first borns of their family who chafe against the rules of the society they are born in. Bellatrix becomes #girlboss terrorist while Sirius rebels.

Ginny slamming the creepy musical box lid shut: her experience with the enchantment of the diary coming to play a bit here.

i love all these little descriptions of how they are waging a war against the house and how visitors stayed to help: Tonks with a murderous ghoul, Remus with a grandfather's clock and how Mundungus redeemed himself in front of Mrs Weasley by saving Ron from purple robes that tried to strangle him.

ah Harry actually wants to ask if Sirius would come to the hearing as Snuffles. I LOVE THEM.

Chapter 7,8,9

Scrimgeour- the head of Auror office and Minister for next book - is onto something. He is asking Tonks and Kingsley "funny questions."

why is there no fanart of Arthur in a bomber jacket and pinstriped trousers?

ok, I am a little endeared by Mrs Weasley attacking Harry's hair with a wet comb and asking whether it ever lies flat XD

Sirius trying to cheer Harry up with a joke about seeing to Amelia Bones for him, and Harry actually smiles weakly. I am sorry, I think this entire book I am just going to be savouring all the Sirius-Harry.

the magical fountain where goblin, house elf and centaur "look adoringly up at the witch and wizard". implicit power dynamic even in the lie. #imperialist moment

Magical Maintenance giving them two months of hurricanes when they wanted a pay rise Imao.

Kingsley and Arthur interacting as if they dont know each other is really cute, especially when they do sotto voice for the real info they want to give. Also, Kingsley asking Arthur to pass a magazine for Sirius :<3

a demonstration of Arthur's standing in the Ministry: his office is smaller than the broom cupboard and his request for window is denied.

for future plot point: the regurgitating toilet (whose culprit will inform Umbridge of the DA meeting), and Harry sees Bode!

they changed the time and venue of Harry's hearing to a courtroom they dont often use. Dumbles will imply they were trying to sabotage Harry next chapter.

the courtroom Harry is in, is used for terrorist trials of back in aftermath of first war (there are even chains on the seat "threateningly" clinking at him). Arthur had implied they haven't used it for a while, and this really drives home how much this trial is meant to sabotage Harry's chances as well as unsettle him.

Umbridge in shadow. A foreboding introduction to antagonist of this book.

I love that when Harry sees Dumbledore, there is a hopeful feeling in his chest that he connects with the phoenix song. It's beautiful imagery, an indication of how safe he feels with Dumbledore. Also callback to Priori Incantetam in GOF.

Harry suspects that Mrs Figg had seen a picture of a Dementor, and that she was coached about what she would say. Dumbledore relied on the Ministry not knowing about whether or not Squibs can actually see Dementors for Mrs Figg's speech. Love how Dumbles uses their ignorance against them.

When Dumbledore suggests that the Dementors being there wasnt an accident, Umbridge's shadow moves. Nice.

Dumbles gets "cool" when Fudge hints at not having Hogwarts under Ministry control.

Love that Dumbles overturns the power dynamic of the room and tells the Wizengamot to make a decision after he was done talking.

Dumbles basically runs out without giving an indication to Arthur how the trial went. This is possibly because Arthur is already suspected of being close to Dumbledore, so he wouldnt want to stick around and relay info.

"Harry felt winded" at the sight of Lucius Malfoy, the man who was both witness to and jeered Harry's predicament at the graveyard, and just weeks after he told Fudge that Malfoy was a DE. and Arthur, bless him, can sense Harry's feelings, because he holds his shoulder in a warning.

Ron is so happy about Harry being cleared that he is serving mashed potatoes onto everyone's plates <3

Sirius. I love the detail that both Sirius and Harry (later in the book) retreat to Buckbeak's room when they are both upset.

Hermione getting increasingly bothered by the twins dragging Ron, that she speaks up angrily <3

I really love this little moment of Harry sitting and probbing his own feelings about Ron getting the badge instead of him. There are so many things happening here - one Harry is a bit competitive, so I can imagine him taking a hit that his best friend has overtaken him in something. But I think it's (strongly implied) because he feels overlooked by Dumbledore (which is a theme through the book). Kingsley and Lups conversation at the dinner confirms Harry's feelings.

I like all these little hints about Ginny's comfort with Sirius. She includes him in a conversation when she is with Tonks.

And Sirius is also right beside Harry. I love that Harry is this little duck who just gravitates to where Sirius is in the room.

Harry feeling "doubly fond" of everyone in the room when he is told that James was not a prefect either. At this point in his journey, so much of his identity is rooted in who his father is.

Moody showing the Order photograph and recalling tales of gore lol. (Lups is on a different side of the photograph than Jily + Wormtail)

I really feel for Mrs Weasley in the Boggart scene. It is described so vividly too, as is Harry's initial reaction to seeing Ron's body.

Sirius keeps staring at the patch of floor where he had seen dead Harry (a memory of James' dead body intrudes? or a future where he imagines failing Harry? Both is possible)

Lups gently comforting Molly, while Sirius's offers his version of practical comfort - that its only a matter of time when Voldemort moves into open, and he will see he is wrong.

The chapter ends with harry thinking how he feels old after looking at that picture of the Order of Phoenix and Mrs Weasleys' Boggart. The full weight of the stakes they are facing hits him.

Chapter 10, 11, 12

Padfoot snapping at pigeons, chasing his own tail and scaring cats for Harry's entertainment <3 (also Lee says, "Nice dog, Harry!" and Sirius wags his tail "frantically". I cant deal with how cute this is.)

and when Harry is about to leave, "the great black dog reared onto its hind legs and placed his front paws on Harry's shoulders" :( and then Sirius chases the trail until it rounds the bend. How did it get from sweet to painful already.

Ron becomes "intensely interested in his fingernails" when both Harry and him realise it is going to be their first Hogwarts ride without each other, since Ron has to go to the Prefect's carriage. And then Ron being anxious at leaving Harry behind and implies that he'd rather be with Harry ("I'm not enjoying it -I'm not Percy"). I mentioned in prev discussion about Ron's awkwardness about being a prefect in wake of Percy's departure, and the "I'm not Percy" line shows it so deeply.

Ginny being really sweet! She asks Harry to look for compartment, encourages Neville to come with them into Luna's compartment. And while she did call Luna "Loony" privately outside, she was all smile-y inside the compartment. And when Neville goes, "I'm nobody", Ginny intervenes and introduces Neville to Luna. (btw this book is full of very organic Ginny character writing! I really like how she is integrated here)

Love that Harry audibly groans after Cho leaves, seeing him covered in Stinksap. Ginny noticed, of course and goes, "never mind" and cleans it up after. (Also, we have a parallel scene in HBP where Harry, instead of being embarrassed to be with Neville and Luna, defends them in front of Romilda Vane)

Ron comes back and just plops himself next to Harry after his hour at the prefect carriage. :hug_blob:

Harry excited to read the article Kingsley thought would amuse Sirius. XD and after the first line he is like: "Since when had Sirius been a singing sensation?"

"Tell me how it feels to be second best to Weasley, Potter?" Love that Hermione is nettled by this - she is angry on behalf of both Ron and Harry. And then when Malfoy mentions "dogging", she actually stands up. She is so worried about Sirius :( (she mentions before that she thinks he shouldnt have come with them)

Harry and Hermione share a look about Malfoy saying "dogging" and they are both unnerved.

Luna offering to help Harry manage the pets as everyone else is gone :heart: love the little moment in the end where she assures him that she can see the Thestrals too.

"seeing Hagrid again was one of things he was looking forward to the most." Oh harry <3

lol @ Hermione and Luna, intended foils, are on same page about Hagrid's teaching skills.

cute atmosphere detail about students taking note of each other's new haircuts etc after a summer away. Its details like that gives it a school feeling.

"Who's that?" : Hermione meets her antagonist for the year: Umbridge.

Even with bitter feelings, Harry is soothed to see Dumbledore. Such intense feelings of safety are associated with Dumbles. (also love the detail of Dumbles throwing his beard back over the shoulder to eat, lol)

the trio smirking when Dumbles warns that Forbidden Forest is out of bounds ("few older students should know this by now too" XD)

McGonagall and Sprout annoyed that Umbridge is interrupting Dumbles speech (which is obviously intended as a power move). They also exchange a glance during Umbridge's speech.

"I'll be her friend as long as I don't have to borrow that cardigan" Parvati lol

The speech was interesting and very subtle with how the Ministry is pro-pureblood: she refers to magic as a generational thing within wizarding community ("the treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our ancestors").

Dean <3 love that he sides with Harry and assures him, but is also unable to say a bad word about Seamus since he is a friend. He is a good guy.

love how in sync Harry and Ron are here: Harry can tell from Ron's silence that Ron doesn't find the idea of stopping Fred and George inviting, and Ron responds for Harry when Hermione asks what's wrong, because Harry couldnt say it. (also Ron especially doesnt want to stop Fred and George - which he was happy to do previous book with the whole blackmail business - because of the large absence of Percy and reminders of Percy)

Hermione thinking its best to know what the enemy is saying and reading the Prophet. Really getting a lay of the land here. Its incredible how political her arc is.

love that George mentions that one of the reasons they came back for their 7th year is because they didnt think Molly could take them leaving the school early after the whole debacle with Percy.

lol @ romione banter. Hermione lays into them for not paying attention in class, and Ron compliments her brains and memory, and while she says, "don't give me that rubbish" because she knows what Ron is doing, she also looked "mollified" lol. XD

Cho did not have a good summer either, and I like that Harry recognises the connection in someone else who would be affected by Cedric's death.

love that as resolutely as Umbridge is ignoring her, Hermione keeps her hand in air . And the book is so boring, everyone ends up watching her XD. Also, Hermione not opening a book feels like her form of protest lol.

the moment Hermione confronts her about her course aims, the trio is in sync. Ron exclaims, "we're not going to use magic?" + Umbridge does the power move of asking students to raise their hands if they want to speak in class. And Harry, Ron and Hermione's hands are up.

Dean being the VERY BEST, by both backing Harry's assertion when he was cut off, and defending Remus when Umbridge makes a jab, and then saying they still learned loads from Fake!Moody. XD (also Parvati spoke up too. These two are the bold kids)

Harry standing up and speaking up against Umbridge and the whole class is holding a breath. Seamus is half scared, half facinated. Neville says later on in DH that Harry speaking up when he felt things are wrong "gave people hope".

lol at Harry repeating Umbridge's speech and interpretation of it, and McGonagall immediately knows he knows this because he listened to Hermione XD

#hp reread #harry james potter #ron weasley #hermione granger #ginny weasley #sirius black

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