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brujahinaskirt · 10 months

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Okay, I obviously made the above post as a leetle joke, but since it's getting not insignificant traction, I do want to offer a more serious note.

I love this about Arthur. It's probably my favorite thing about him, but let me use this fresh new RDR2 meta post to clarify exactly what I mean. Despite the aspects of his personality & appearance that are traditionally hypermasculine, and despite how often he is annoyed with people (especially incompetents or people who meddle with his plans), Arthur is decidedly NOT annoyed by the social performance of femininity or by traits that are/were frequently stereotyped as feminine. Ever. Regardless of subject. I might go so far as to say he seems to canonically prefer hanging out with women and with "feminine" men.

Your long-winded, bullet-pointed analysis is below!

The Girls. Most noticeably, Arthur actually sits down to talk with and actively confides in the camp Girls (Tilly, Mary-Beth, Karen) more than anyone else around. These three are the most traditionally "girly" (single, 20s, active, pretty, unattached, highly social, feminine, chatty) members of the gang, though of course they are still criminals and don't perfectly adhere to all period-typical standards of feminine comportment. He doesn't mock the girls** like he sometimes does with other auxiliary members of the gang (like Uncle and Pearson, playful or not). Notably, he doesn't even gently tease Mary-Beth for writing her "silly" romance novels, a highly feminized hobby which she speaks about in a self-depreciating manner, much like Arthur speaks about his own artistic hobbies. Rather, he talks to her about writing like a peer and encourages her to write more by going out of his way to get her a nice pen. Crucially, there is no canon romantic or sexual interest in any of the girls on Arthur's behalf. He just feels the most comfortable in their company and seems to value their advice/opinions on life the most. To me, this is much stronger proof than his forever-burning torch for the cultured & ladylike Mary, which is (or was once) rooted in romantic desire. ** Unless the player persists in Antagonizing them, and these lines (while sometimes shockingly cruel and offhandedly sexual in nature; see Arthur teasing Tilly about pursuing Javier) are largely about goading them for laziness or, in Karen's case, her alcoholism. That said, many of the Antagonize lines strike me as clumsily tacked-on & poorly rooted in canon, which could indicate: (1) an Arthur who is deliberately trying to be disruptive (a generous interpretation), or (2) writers instructed to add throwaway content that will make a certain type of childishly misanthropic gamer (think 13 y.o. boys) squeal in glee with relatively low impact on the overall story.

Campmates. Following the above point... who doesn't Arthur hang out with much? The manly men of the gang; the very people social mores suggest he ought to be hanging out with. Bill, Micah, Joe, Cleet, and even Dutch. (To some extent, this includes John and Sean, but I'd say John sort of lives at the edges of gang life anyway, and Sean is, well, Sean.) Conversely, which male gang members does Arthur hang out with a lot? Sweet little bookish Lenny, a wordy, positive-energy, breezy intellectual who has just barely become an adult. Introspective, soft-voiced, long-haired Charles, who is traditionally masculine by some standards (strong, usually calm, can be standoffish) but decidedly NOT so when his appearance/demeanor is judged by the white Christian American male standards that began to dominate masculinity concepts in the later decades of the 1800s.

Algernon. Oh, my, Algernon. Arthur clearly dislikes Algernon's fancy, loud, outrageous clothing. But weirdly, he seems to like Algernon, not just tolerate him. Arthur in fact goes through significant personal discomfort to avoid hurting Algernon's feelings (the awful hat, the POST.MAN. sobbing), and he immediately says yes to having tea with him without any awareness of a coming business proposition, though half the time Arthur clearly has no fucking clue what Algernon is talking about. I am left to conclude that on some level, he just enjoys hearing Algernon talk, which is word-for-word what he says while listening to the Girls argue about romance novels ("I just like listening to you [all] talk." Hello????). I mean, for God's sake, he meets the man while he's choking to death on a nut at a fancy party, and the second thing Algernon does is tell him he looks like a guy who wears a corset. If anything was going to set off the boiling defensiveness of a dude who worships masculinity, thirty seconds with Algie would have done it.

Margaret, Mistress of Fucking Danger. It's pretty clear Arthur doesn't like Margaret. But that has little to do with Margaret's femininity & cross-dressing (this doesn't faze him at all when Charles Châtenay does it; more on that below) and everything to do with Margaret's deceptiveness and highly selective memory. It's not until the bullshittery unveils itself that Arthur starts getting visibly pissed off at Margaret. Conversely, Arthur does seem more positively disposed toward Sally Nash. (That said, this quest has a lot of problems and poorly aged lines that are depressingly easy for a politically motivated jerkoff to soundbite and miscast as Rockstar being pro-bigot. Cue 800 heterobnoxious gamerbro ARTHUR MORGAN ULTIMATE ANTI SNOWFLAKE SIGMA MALE OF THE WEST YouTube videos.)

Albert, my beloved. Rather than goading him to man up, Arthur tries to persuade Albert (whom he very obviously likes) to pick safer animal photography subjects, e.g. horses, and doesn't insult him for his lack of wilderness knowledge (an aspect of traditional manliness that is highly relevant to Arthur's lifestyle). You'd think he would tear into him for this shortcoming, given that they share so many of the same interests and passions, and IMO his genuine eagerness to serve as Albert's protector and facilitate his art is highly convincing evidence that Arthur does not necessarily view masculinity as a net positive.

Arthur is a basic goddamn boyfriend-hater. He pretty much harshly disapproves of every husband, boyfriend, male partner, etc. in the game and is very, very vocal about it... except one extremely unlikely candidate: Beau Gray. Weak, dandy artist Beau Gray, whom Arthur takes one look at and promptly hands the only gun to Penelope. Arthur is curt and impish to Beau at times, but helps him in his relationship troubles willingly (without collecting repayment), and seemingly for no other reason than the fact he can see that soft, fearful Beau is genuinely head-over-heels in love with Penelope. Is he projecting his own young love for Mary onto them? Maybe/probably, but Beau could not possibly be more different from young Arthur, and Arthur seems to believe this difference will make him a good husband for Penelope. A good husband, in Arthur's view, seems to simply be a man who ardently loves his beloved, regardless of his ability to provide for/protect her, and whose only goal in life is to live that life at her side. This is completely antithetical to mainstream late-1800s views on what constitutes a good husband and what it means to be a man.

Châtenay. Arthur shows us some of the most obvious delight and mirth he experiences in the game when he's hanging out with Charles "Allo Boys" Châtenay, who is straight up in drag a third of that time. This baffles Arthur a little, but doesn't disgust or repel him. I've written about this mission elsewhere at greater length because it is one of my favorite disasters, but it's worth mentioning here too.

Trelawny. Arthur clearly enjoys Trelawny despite his grumbly claims to the contrary. Most of these "claims" are just Arthur's established way of affectionate teasing (he does much the same with Uncle and Pearson, both of whom he genuinely likes). His authentic gripes about Trelawny are all about a perceived flightiness/lack of loyalty to the gang, not about his flamboyance. And even these gripes are half-assed, in Arthur's usual way.

Bluegills & Daisy Chains. One of the most genuine moments of softness we have with Arthur in RDR2 is when he takes Little Jack out of the camp to go fishing. Arthur's usually a much truer version of himself when he doesn't have to play the Big Bad Gang Lieutenant role, but this moment of escape is especially important, and not just because Arthur reveals his fondness for children and his natural understanding of how to talk to them. I notice this: Arthur tries to gently teach Jack about fishing, and Jack is completely fucking uninterested. Jack prefers to make flower chains for his mommy. Arthur doesn't scold him for his drifting attention or his lack of attraction to masculine past-times; on the contrary, Arthur goes out of his way to encourage and protect Jack's natural sweetness and innocence. That's a wild stance for a murdering outlaw to have re: the "next generation" of his family. Hell, I've encountered far too many 21st century dads in my own family who flip their shit when their tiny sons prefer hanging out with women & partaking in "womanly" hobbies like art, cooking, and flowers rather than hunting and fishing.

"...and be a god damn man." This seems like classic masculine bluster on the surface, but what does this keynote line mean in the context in which Arthur says it? Well, it's complicated. This statement serves as (a) Arthur's goodbye to John, (b) Arthur's final call to action for John, and (c) Arthur's last wish for his brother's life. But it certainly does not mean standing and fighting or being tough; i.e., "dying like a man." In that moment, it means abandoning all masculine bluster and revenge fantasy, and running away: leaving violence and fighting and brotherhood and all that crap behind to simply be there (alive, present) for your wife and son.

The Best Women People. Who are the best people Arthur knows, by his own crystal-clear declaration? Abigail and Sadie. Sadie's a rough-and-tumble, super-violent gunslinger and Abigail's a stubborn thief & a former sex worker (in the time Arthur has known her), but they are also, critically, two wives: the most traditional feminine role for a woman of the time period (and indeed perhaps most of human history once the concept of "wife" subsumed that of "mother"). It's also important to note that Arthur doesn't truly give up on Dutch until Dutch abandons Abigail, which serves as Arthur's point of no return. The other men left in the gang at this point specifically note that she's "just a woman" and not worth going back for. Arthur is straight-up shocked by all of this; he obviously considers her among the most worthwhile and value-having members of the gang, and certainly one of the most core members of the gang. Without any hesitation or doubt, the instant it's clear Dutch is cutting Abigail loose, Arthur declares: "That's that, then."

tl;dr: Arthur unironically prefers hanging out with women and queens and I love that for them.

#rdr2 #arthur morgan #red dead redemption #i promise to wait an appropriate amount of time before hurling another one of these massive essays at you tumblr #redmeta

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leportraitducadavre · 9 months

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Naruto and the "hero" concept

Volumes Covered: 1-27 (first part)

How Naruto as a character interacts with those in power, particularly those who represent the position he wants to achieve (Hokage) is an interesting discussion to have. However, since the manga is particularly long, such debate would inevitably become far too extensive, so I’ve decided to indulge in some investigation on the matter during the first part of the manga. The driven question: How does Naruto interact with the notion of Hero and how (or if) does evolve through his development?

Be warned, this is mostly an incredibly organized rambling of mine. Many things might not make enough sense to you and some specific moments could have been interpreted differently by some: This is a specific reading of the canonical material, not definitive facts.

Long post!

Wave Arc

“If something is precious to you, you need to protect it with all the strength you’ve got, even at the risk of your own life” (x)

Such words were spoken by Kaiza, Inari’s father and the first character to introduce in a deep manner the idea of what being a “hero” entails. These words, plus Kaiza’s sacrifice to save his son (and the town’s citizens), are both glorified by the narrative as something Naruto should aspire to want and become (even if later on the own narrative twists itself and destroys its own “heroic” concept when justifying the UCM and Tobirama’s Curse of Hatred).

I don’t think, and the manga in itself quite literally encourages to do so, that Naruto really understands the link between Inari and the concept of “hero” he possesses (I'm making no judgment since he uses his own conception to approach the subject). To the small civilian boy, the word hero was meant to categorize a person that protects what and whom they love even at the cost of their life. It’s pretty much highlighted here when Inari finally understands what Kaiza was trying to convey when they first met now that he formed an emotional connection with him (father-son). When Kaiza is killed -here-, Inari’s pain makes him turn his sadness into anger, and he gives sense to that feeling by accusing Kaiza of abandoning him and, therefore, taking away that “hero” status (he’s not there to protect him as a hero would).

Upon hearing this, Naruto’s response “I’m going to show Inari that there are still heroes in the world!” (here) not only twists the narrative to introduce himself into an issue he wasn’t asked to be part of (furthermore, Tazuna had no right to tell) but also, realistically: it fixes absolutely nothing. Here’s the thing: Heroes, to Inari, are people emotionally invested with what or those they’re saving -it doesn’t have to do exclusively with being physically capable of doing so, but about wanting to because of the deep connection between them. Kaiza didn’t fail as a hero because he couldn’t defeat Gato, but because he “disappeared” (died).

Naruto rescuing Inari should (from a narrative point of view, at least for now), not change Inari’s perspective because they have no relationship and because Naruto is pretty much paid to carry out a duty (even if canonically the mission Tazuna paid for doesn’t cover the costs of what Naruto is about to do, Inari knows nothing about it, there’s no panel that tells us otherwise).

So why is there a dichotomy between Naruto’s perception of a hero and Inari’s? In the very first chapter of the manga, there’s a direct link between the “Hero” concept and the “Hokage” title. Naruto’s wish to become a hero (or more specifically, The Hero), is a direct correlation to the mighty leader of Konohagakure, whom Naruto aspires to be.

[The importance of the “hero” concept is mentioned again in chapter 8, where Naruto learns that there are shinobi who are considered “heroes” because they died for the village (sacrificed their life for Konoha’s benefit) and, in exchange, were rewarded with their name upon a stone.]

However, as I presented before, Naruto’s way of approaching the subject has more to do with being physically able to save someone (for him, a hero is someone who is powerful enough to help, like how the Hokage is considered the strongest shinobi of the village), than understanding what the concept entails for Inari.

During Naruto and Haku’s conversation, the MC’s approach to the entire concept is finally addressed (x), Haku asks him if he has someone precious to fight for (x), and after hearing Naruto’s response, he tells him that people become stronger when fighting to protect someone they care for (x). It’s just then that Naruto relates that idea to Iruka (specifically Iruka sacrificing for him and his own decision to protect Iruka against Mizuki), to Kaiza’s story, and to Kakashi’s phrase: “I’ll never let my comrades die” (here).

He understands upon speaking with Haku the importance of a bond and, therefore, of having an emotional reason (person, place) to fight for (and become stronger), yet this understanding doesn’t necessarily contradict Naruto’s previous belief. He still wants to prove a point and earn the recognition of the village that ostracized him by becoming the strongest ninja; whilst the notion that both Kaiza, Inari, and Haku preach does not necessarily include any sort of acknowledgment for their actions (Kaiza was literally used as an example of what happens to those who defy Gato while Haku establishes himself as a tool at Zabuza’s disposal -both are okay with that for their wants rested elsewhere).

In the next chapter, 22, we have an important interaction: On this page, Inari, mad at Naruto, screams at him that not only he won’t be able to win against Gato’s tugs, but also he accuses him of speaking of a subject he has no idea of, being foreign, and (assuming) Naruto has experienced nothing of what he had to go through.

As readers, we know that Naruto has been mistreated by his own people, but Inari’s point is understandable: Naruto knows nothing about Wave other than what was told to him, in the same manner, he puts himself in the position of becoming the island (Inari’s) hero: He wants the help he provides -or he’s about to provide, to be recognized, for the Hokage is Konoha’s hero, and his existence, relevance, and power are acknowledged. [Perhaps calling it Naruto’s idea of a hero is misplaced, for it could easily be labeled as Konoha’s idea of a hero].

After an emotional manipulation at the hands of Kakashi (yes, Naruto’s words also influenced the little boy, but he lacked the experience to understand what he was doing), Inari starts to respect Naruto and acts “heroically”, to which Naruto responds by displaying a better attitude towards him. I’ve spoken a little bit about it before it but there’s no harm in repetition: Shinobi’s cultural, economic, political, and social spheres are different from civilians’ -in that sense when in a non-shinobi space, ninjas have no say in civilian customs or actions; yet none of them (I’m including Kakashi and somewhat forgiving Naruto, giving his young age and the fact that this is the first time he ever went outside Konoha) are able to detach their world-view from their specific ninja cultural and political rules. Inari would have never obtained Naruto’s respect hadn’t been because he performed the “heroic” thing (the shinobi thing, which endangered his life for he had no tools to perform in the same manner Naruto or Kakashi did). Furthermore, his relationship with Naruto hasn’t changed, they had no interaction after their fight, but because Inari is suddenly brave enough to stand up for his mom instead of escaping to ensure his safety, their relationship is suddenly fixed.

[Just an idea: perhaps Naruto did approach Inari with the idea of apologizing before he saw him defending his mother -perhaps Haku’s words did modify his perspective, but that doesn’t change the fact that Inari was coerced to perform the “shinobi” thing by Kakashi].

There’s nothing in the narrative that suggests Inari was actually a coward before, the only reason why he didn’t jump to save his dog was that he couldn’t swim. One instance of being afraid to move -because of genuine fear and the knowledge of a more than likely demise-, does not define his entire person, plus, he was even younger, if during Wave Arc he was eight, then it means he back in the flashback that Tazuna tells, he was five-years-old. It would have been slightly more understandable if Inari was born and raised in a ninja village, but for a civilian kid? Why such pressure? Again, the problem isn’t with Naruto exactly, he judges other people with the same bar with which he was/is judged (let’s remember, back in chapter 10, Kakashi shames Naruto when he froze during the attack of Kiri ninjas, despite that being the first time he was attacked in such degree), but we, the readers, are given the tools to question the exchange, not simply nod alongside everything the characters say.

In the end, Naruto apologizes to Inari for calling him a baby, again, after he displayed bravery (which, I admit, was kind of greatly staged), and Chapter 23 ends with Naruto stating “man, this ‘hero’ thing is a lot of work”. Inari recognizes Naruto’s strength first, not his heroic capacity, until their “bonding” moment.

Naruto still doesn’t exactly question the central issue presented before: the main objective of becoming a hero isn’t about getting recognition (his current belief), but about protecting those he loves. The narrative tries to make a foreshadowing of what might come: Naruto learning that him being a ninja on duty -a person that gets paid to either protect or kill, immediately clashes against what a hero should be (Kaiza’s definition); his current belief is put there only to be questioned, but that questioning ends up nowhere, after the first part (and I dare to say Wave Arc) it disappears (at least for Naruto, since Sasuke seems to be the one who carries this notion afterward).

Naruto’s speech to Zabuza (here and here) about the way shinobi apparently need to be emotionless in order to follow through with a mission or become strong is a direct contradiction to the rule introduced by Sakura herself. The way Kishimoto wrote those scenes means that the clash of ideals is on purpose, even Zabuza admits that shinobi are human beings and they aren’t able to completely erase their feelings (yes, that also contradicts the Curse of Hatred that is later on introduced).

The Hokage is a person that -as stated by Ebisu, “knows and understands the eight principles that are the cornerstones of all the knowledge of the shinobi”, furthermore, Hiruzen (a direct example of who Naruto wants to become), expects the future shinobi to know and follow a number of rules, it’s are a requirement to pass the initial course. This is the first time Naruto questions the basis of the shinobi’s belief system (being as heartless as Zabuza = being strong = becoming a hero = becoming Hokage).

In chapter 33, we are able to see Zabuza and Haku’s funeral, which introduces the idea of Naruto growing up to question the current system: Here and here. We are shown the mentality of “shinobis are tools” being disputed by the main trio -Kakashi, their sensei, admits that the value put on ninjas’ lives by the present mindset makes him uncomfortable, yet, he does nothing about it. We are to believe that this new generation of shinobi (with Naruto at the front) will finally question and take action against that belief; however, we are also shown how shinobi who go against the system are considered rogue (Zabuza), so Naruto will have to either reach power in order to change things (fight from within -with all the issues it brings) or fight against the system from the outside, meaning, becoming a missing-nin.

However, by the end of the Wave Arc, Naruto is starting to build up a reputation (the main goal he was introduced with, which makes all the debate presented before absolutely irrelevant for he changed nothing of his views and got the reward he expected), the bridge is named after him (because I guess he inspired Inari who was in charge to name the bridge, instead of naming it after Tazuna, who built it, or Kaiza, to give him a “post-mortem recognition”). The emotional connection between Naruto and Inari was made after Naruto saved him, yet it can’t be said that it isn’t significant. Kakashi convinced Inari to “like” Naruto (directly), and Haku convinced Naruto to “like” Inari (indirectly) -their relationship was made by other people.

Chünin Exams

When already inside the Chünin Exams’ arc, more specifically, chapter 39, we have an interesting occurrence: Naruto, having put on the over-confident mask he often displays to portray a confidence he doesn’t exactly feels, yells that no one will beat him. Now, that in itself isn’t truly remarkable, yet the Otogakure’s team takes it as an insult to their village. It’s intriguing to think why they take what seems to be an innocent statement with such a negative value because of the village Naruto represents (his Hitai Ate is on his forehead, where everyone can see).

This interpretation, however, is introducing something of a bigger scale: The resentment of smaller villages towards bigger ones like Konoha -we have yet to know their reasoning, but since we already know Konoha is one (if not the) strongest village, the wording in which the Otogakure’s team presents the conflict is to be noted. Naruto never mentioned the places of precedence of those in the room -he even included the shinobi from his own village (when facing the room, he’s also looking at Lee, Neji, and Tenten) yet the Oto team takes it personally because they can see his headband: they know things that the reader has yet to learn, therefore, Naruto seemingly innocent statement automatically translates onto Konoha shinobi insulting other villages’ capacities.

[It’s also to be noted that Otogakure is ruled by Orochimaru, who deserted Konoha and wasn’t really a fan of his former village, their distaste for Konoha as a village and Naruto as a shinobi might have to do with their commander’s personal feelings if they know about Orochimaru’s past].

By the end of the first exam (chapter 43) - Ibiki asks the tenth question, Naruto jumps before Sakura can raise her hand and forfeit (she did so because she didn’t want Naruto to fail and be stuck forever as a Gënin should he answer incorrectly) while yelling that he won’t quit and he’ll become Hokage even if they doom him to be Gënin forever (Kishimoto actually made this to be true: he stayed as a gënin until the very end of the manga). His character is particularly marked by his necessity to go against those who underestimate him, to the point where he sets all of his interactions under that premise until proven wrong; that is, he usually assumes people are belittling him even if they aren’t particularly doing so.

In Chapter 48, after being attacked by Orochimaru disguised as a Grass ninja, Sasuke decides that the best course of action in order to survive is giving him the Heaven Scroll they have so he would leave. Up until then, Orochimaru has overpowered both him and Sakura yet, Naruto intercepts the exchange and punches Sasuke, calling him a “fake”, because the real Sasuke isn’t a coward. Now, Naruto knows nothing of what both Sasuke and Sakura experienced, so perhaps he truly believes that it isn’t a fight harsh enough for them not to overcome (they have fought against Haku and Zabuza and they won); but what interests me is the weight and value that Naruto seems to put over the notion of “brave” and its counterpart “coward” since he’s done the exact same judgment when in Wave (to Inari), and it was an assessment made towards him by both Sasuke and Kakashi.

Kishimoto even acknowledges this parallelism through this panel: here. Even the next chapter (49), it’s titled “Coward” [After Orochimaru attacks Naruto, Sakura helps him and yells at Sasuke (who has been frozen since Naruto saved him) - at her intervention, he immediately remembers Itachi’s words which are a direct reflection of Naruto’s words to Sasuke].

Up to this point, for Naruto, a Hero is someone strong enough to help others (I assume since he spoke with Haku that Naruto understood the “fighting for what/who you love” phrase, even if that is incredibly manipulated and he subscribed to the Will of Fire, where the love he possesses for Iruka and his friends translates into him caring for Konoha as a symbol), someone who is acknowledged by others because of their sacrifices/capacities and, now,someone brave enough to jump into dangerous situations.

After the end of the Second Stage of the Chünin Exams, we have a thought-provoking interaction between Iruka and Naruto. There, Iruka advises the tree cell team not to overexert themselves during the next round, to which Naruto replies with -basically, “since I’ve got the Hitai-ate (that you gave me), I stopped being a kid and became a full-fledged shinobi” (x and x). I have pointed this out in some other posts but there’s no harm to reiterate: the pass from childhood to adult -unlike in the civilian society that follows different rules, is marked by the bestowal of the headband. That is, adulthood has little to do with age and more to do with rank. With that mentality, Naruto’s behavior towards Inari is slightly more understandable, since his age is not an excuse to behave like a “child”. Yet, again, where Naruto (and Kakashi) fails is in understanding that Inari is not governed by the same principles that he is.

In the introduction of the preliminary rounds, we have Hiruzen’s speech about the exams and their true goal, I won’t put here everything that they encompass but I will mention the so-called friendship Hiruzen preached about and what will ultimately become Naruto’s own conception of the term: The “friendship” that Hiruzen often speaks about (and many fans still take in the strict term of the word), is more about preserving the balance in between the villages at the risk of people’s lives. That’s the type of friendship that Naruto will end up defending -to keep the balance between the greater villages, massacres, discrimination, and even wars (and war-like scenarios, such as the Chünin Exams), are permitted, because balance equals friendship.

The Hero (The Hokage) keeps the balance. If they feel Konoha is losing power, they’ll start a war, if they sense a small village or a petit organization jeopardizes the position of the Big Five, they obliterate them -I wish more people would read that specific panel: the system isn’t supposed to be good nor fair to everyone, the parameters to be “good” or “evil” are completely different from our own, we are speaking of military, corrupt and powerful states that thrive on wars, they -by our own standards- could never be “good” even at its most basic level. Allow me to copy-paste a response a gave about Jiraiya’s character to illustrate this point:

“We can’t separate his characterization from the universe he was created for (which is not to say we can’t judge him based on our own standards, but calling him a hypocrite would only be factual if he counters his own definition of peace, which he doesn’t).

Who is he killing? People that aren’t from Konoha nor loyal to it, which instantly justifies his actions. Why is he killing? Because it will benefit his village in the short and/or long term (...) The problem in itself isn’t Jiraiya not aligning with our views -he doesn’t have to (furthermore, the narrative doesn’t have to either, which is the apparatus that validates him inside the story, specifically), is the fandom that puts him as a paragon of morality -using him to put other character views/behaviors down, (...) How come Jiraiya is singled out as ‘the’ hypocrite when the system he defends and on which he based his entire views is nothing but hypocritical? You can’t take any other Will of Fire believer/Shinobi system supporter and spare them from the same criticism. If the system he aligns with is nothing but paradoxical (state-sanctioned genocide to “maintain peace” -rather, keep specific people in power- is only one of the most notorious actions perceived narratively as necessary), he has no other choice but to become paradoxical as well -otherwise, he’ll become a traitor.” (x)

However, in chapter 94, we have this interesting piece of interaction, where Hiruzen tells the future generation of shinobi that they are free to live and die as they please (we readers are aware that this, given Konoha’s parameters of both freedom and death, is not necessarily true), but they need to protect those who “are precious to them” (Kaiza’s notion of a hero), alongside this Hiruzen, as the Hokage, claims that he’ll protect everyone in the village -because all of them are equally precious to him. This particular method of emotional manipulation is applied to the young minds of future soldiers, and the truth about the real implication of what is asked of them to do would not come to them until much later -either on their first mission or during their Chünin Exams.

I’ll repeat: There’s a reason why Hiruzen doesn’t allow the façade of Konoha’s practices to fall until the very last stage of the exams, because Konoha’s educational system (particularly), holds itself by ingraining the idea that Konoha as a symbol equalizes to everyone composing it. In trivial terms: If you ask a young child what they rather save, Konoha or their parents -they’ll probably save the person precious to them rather than a piece of land; however, if you convince the kid that Konoha is a symbol far greater than any person because it’s a place where their parents’ presence (or legacy) will still linger even after their deaths (“sacrifices”), then the decision isn’t as easy as it was before. Tsunade doubting about whether to help Orochimaru or not under the promise of seeing Dan and Nawaki again just reiterates the idea of tying Konoha (the symbol) to those dearest to her. Nawaki and Dan are, at this point, either at the same level or higher than the village itself -it’s after, with Naruto and Jiraiya’s intervention (offering of the Hokage’s title and, later on, threatening her), that the village becomes a symbol for both of them and she finally internalizes her master’s teachings. Even Dan states that he loves the village and all of his friends that live there, which is why he wants to defend it, further proving the idea previously mentioned. Furthermore, When Tsunade saves Naruto from Orochimaru’s attack -he asks her “why go to such lengths to save a Gënin,” to which she replies “I’m doing this to protect the village of Konohagakure”; there’re things to point out about this that intertwine this line with my previous point.

Naruto is the Jinchuriki of the nine tails, if he dies Konoha loses possession of Kurama.

Naruto’s dream is to become Hokage, and the remembrance of Dan and Nawaki allows Tsunade to make a connection between Naruto’s dream and theirs. She also might be referencing Naruto becoming Hokage as a way to save Konoha in the future.

Naruto is the representation of Konoha and its people.

For Naruto, the title of Hokage is so important that he deems it unfathomable that someone would reject it -as Tsunade did the first time it was offered to her. It’s not only about his lack of knowledge about what the title entails and the responsibilities that come with it (something that isn't propagandistically mentioned, as the only thing highlighted about the position is the physical power the wielder needs to have in order to earn it. Realistically speaking, we know the title isn’t just about power -as Tsunade isn’t the strongest of the three Sannin, yet she’s the most valuable as the last Senju descendant), but also about the acknowledgment position she’s declining. Naruto has glorified the idea of Hokage (hero) to such a degree that questioning the position (or whoever has obtained it) seems incomprehensible, and when Tsunade does question it -he reacts violently. She’s questioning the very thing he wants to be, that’s why he reacts so fiercely against her when she both declines the position and questions its relevance and this is exactly why he’s set to never dispute the notion that was ingrained into him -Naruto questioning the system that killed thousands through the years is being practically buried here.

Regarding Naruto’s characterization, antagonizing the "prodigy" notion is incredibly important to him, not because he (truly) denies the strength of those who are given the title, but because their existence denies him of the acknowledgment he seeks, as all his accomplishments are "overshadowed" by Neji and Sasuke's sole presence. Therefore being recognized (positively so) by their ninja skills (as such is the political and cultural importance of such aspects inside the Shinobi system) is, to him, the most important category when pointing out a person’s value.

To Naruto (and a big portion of the fandom) Neji is not considered a failure (unlike himself, Hinata, or Lee) therefore he somehow has an easier life despite being, in every other manner, oppressed by his family. This is a mindset Konoha in itself teaches to its citizens as this dogma’s value rests on the fact that it guarantees the success and preservation of the status quo established. Therefore, for Will of Fire supporters, Sasuke couldn’t be discriminated against because he was praised for his techniques/was popular, Neji might be a slave but he’s incredibly valuable to Konoha due to his strength, so there is some sort of “retribution”.

The problem with this mindset is that it diminishes valid criticisms as it downgrades minorities' arguments by pointing out the person's "worth" inside the overall structure: They're valuable for Konoha's militia as their power benefits them militarily, therefore this recognition discredits any other way they are politically, culturally or economically oppressed.

This nationalistic mindset, vastly sustained in the "greater good" rhetoric, also tries to diminish the relevance of ethnicity identification inside the Narutoverse. Let me explain it further: Being part of a clan isn't -or shouldn't be by Konoha's standards- as important as being a Konoha citizen. People inside the village should consider themselves Konoha citizens first and part of a clan second, so if the greater good (meaning, Konoha's survival or superiority) entails clans' oppression or the tolerance of slavery practices, not only these practices are narratively perceived as necessary but also are to be accepted by those affected by them because they have to see the bigger picture.

This rhetoric isn't as challenging for those in power: some fans claim that all shinobi are forced to forfeit/diminish their identity as clan members to be Konoha's shinobi first, yet it translates differently in practice. It's easier for those who benefited from the system to consider themselves part of their nation before their clan because their ethnicity isn't perceived or treated differently.

If we roughly translate it to real-life dogmas, it'll be as if a (mostly white populated) nation asked their citizens to "forfeit" their ethnic identity (and I'm comparing the Uchiha and Hyuga with real-life ethnic groups as biological differences inside the Narutoverse are marked by the presence or absence of Kekkei Genkai, as Haku introduces) in order to use their nation as an identifier. The white population of such space won't see nor understand the issue with such a request because their whiteness has never been used as a reason to diminish their relevance or capacities inside the spheres of power; furthermore, their nation's bureaucracy was built around their whiteness whilst POCs political value/capacities are constantly challenged. One (or few) instances of POC individuals being praised by those in power for meeting (or surpassing) the established standards isn't the same as them being treated as equals to their white counterparts.

In this “prodigy vs. hard worker” theme, we have two dogmas introduced in the manga: “A ninja is one who endures” (x) of Jiraiya, vs. “A ninja is one who wields Ninjutsu” of Orochimaru -this is an interesting dichotomy, as none of them contradicts the other, it’s also incredibly accurate to represent both Sasuke and Naruto as a ninja. Sasuke -up until the last chapter, is far superior to Naruto when it comes to Ninjutsu, but Naruto is incredibly tough and continuously increases his power/strength out of sheer stubbornness. Both of them have natural resources to move around the dogma they represent (Sasuke, the Sharingan; Naruto, Kurama), so they’re well-matched in that regard.

The Naruto fandom seems to think that Naruto lacking a vast repertoire of Jutsus is the way Kishimoto uses to undermine the main character, completely missing the point of his characterization. Naruto isn’t supposed to be flashy nor interesting, he’s supposed to stand against the norm (a.k.a the literal definition of a ninja, which is Orochimaru’s, hence, Sasuke’s), which is why he has mostly two Jutsus during the whole manga. This, again, doesn’t contradict Sasuke’s characterization, as being able to wield Ninjutsu isn’t opposed to being able to endure -and considering Sasuke’s arc and how he, until the very last moment, refused to give up on his journey, only shows how he grew up to fulfill both visions. The narrative tries to show us how Sasuke's path is wicked, which is why his decision to continue is painted in a negative light.

Sasuke Retrieval Arc

Once Sasuke leaves Konoha, he’s “followed” by Shikamaru and his newly formed squad (you can see an analysis about sexism here), and in chapter 202, we find this phrase uttered by the leader: “I should place more value on the lives of my teammates instead of the person abducted by the enemy (...) besides abandoning a teammate to protect yourself? There’s no one in my squad like that.” (x, x). However, Shikamaru is lying, both to himself and Tayuya. Sasuke wasn’t abducted, he left of his own volition (x). Shikamaru isn’t risking his life to save a kidnapped comrade, he’s risking his life so Orochimaru wouldn’t have the last Uchiha descendent by his side, which is proved by the way Tsunade references Sasuke’s deflection and Orochimaru’s “attempt to have the power of the Uchiha” (here); he’s protecting more Konoha’s possession of the last Sharingan user than Sasuke himself.

Sure, he does have a sense of duty since Sasuke is a comrade, and it wouldn’t be weird for them to think that Sasuke was forced into accepting Orochimaru’s help as Tsunade is incapable of replying to Shikamaru’s question (she isn’t even sure of the answer as nor Kakashi or Jiraiya spoke to her about their suspicions); yet what interests us here is the weight that surrounds the use of the word “save” as it’s likely more for the children’s benefit to put them under a “savior” mindset in order to build their sense of duty and the imperative necessity of bringing Sasuke back; as it’s also likely that they gave sense to Sasuke’s escape by attributing it to kidnapping since they cannot conceive one of them deflecting. Here, the savior complex shifts, as we learn that it isn’t an individualistic ethos that it’s solely linked to Naruto’s character due to his background (it’s simply far more visible in his case), but it’s a learned mindset (un)consciously taught to ensure loyalty and obedience (“I’m not the bad guy, I’m saving you”; “this if for your own good!”; etc); it’s not really different to how real-life soldiers are told to perceive themselves.

“Does Konoha mean nothing to you?!” (x) Peak perfection in the sense of the nationalistic mindset Naruto has been constructing during the whole first portion of the manga, here, Naruto’s sparkles of revolutionary interests are crushed –and I mean, they were never bright to begin with. He never questioned Konoha’s relevance but rather Konoha’s structure when it presented challenges or negative preconceptions of his nature as Jinchuuriki that he needed to overcome or modify, as they did in Wave where he refused to become “just” a tool like Haku was (x), since a tool doesn’t need nor deserves recognition, which he craves. Here, the nationalistic mindset of Kakashi gets reflected upon the student, as Naruto internalized the Will of Fire and exposes it (and rather clearly) here:

Naruto is contemplating Sasuke abandoning him and Team 7, which is the primary fuel in this quest and the reason behind his pain, he mentions the team that Shikamaru gathered (per Tsunade’s orders) to bring him back as these are individuals that put their life on the line to “rescue” Sasuke, yet Sasuke cares not. Naruto’s words are not a coincidence, he never states that the people searching for him are Sasuke’s friends (they aren’t, they never interacted in any significant way), the only thing they have in common is their village of origin and loyalty. For Naruto, that’s enough for a bond, for Sasuke it isn’t.

Sasuke himself put no one in danger, as he fought nor hurt anyone, it was Tsunade who sent inexperienced gënin to search Sasuke in order not to give Orochimaru the “Uchiha’s power”, Sasuke deflecting put no one in any immediate danger as he was, at most, to be killed and possessed by Orochimaru (which, alright, can be argued his body might have been used to destroy Konoha later on –despite Orochimaru being quite capable of doing so prior to having Sasuke’s body as well, so him having or not Sasuke isn’t detrimental for a possible retaliation from the Sannin) which, as he states, isn’t important (x)

I do believe that this specific claim: “You think I’m just gonna let you go?!” which is the culmination of Naruto’s speech about how Orochimaru will grant him power in exchange for his life (x) is understandable as Naruto is both hurt by Sasuke abandoning them and scared for his friend’s life (Sasuke is even leaving despite being aware that he’ll be likely killed, which is quite worse as not only Naruto feels pain as a result of his only friend escaping, but also him leaving to certain death). Naruto’s primary knowledge about Sasuke’s goal (killing Itachi) is that he’s willing to die for it (x) that, in regards to Naruto’s own goal, it’s unfathomable –as death is not one of the lengths Naruto is prepared for in order to get the acknowledgment he seeks. Furthermore, Sasuke’s death will automatically jeopardize his own objective, as Sasuke’s recognition is the one Naruto craves the most (here and here Naruto remembers Sasuke denying Naruto the equal status he wants, and Sasuke once again refuses: “who cares what you want?”).

“You were my Idol, and so… hearing that… I was never happier, with those words, for the first time… you acknowledged I was good.” (x) Can’t make it clearer here Sasuke’s relevance on Naruto’s life and the importance of him staying, of him acknowledging Naruto.

This is not specifically about Naruto, but it’s interesting for this post. Look at this interaction in between Shikaku and his son, Shikamaru: 1, 2, 3. Here, Shikaku was questioning Shikamaru’s claim that he was not fit to be a shinobi (x), as (he states) all he can do is use this experience in order to improve. This whole conversation happens while both Chöji and Neji are in surgery, by the way, so not only is Shikamaru upset about the mission in itself, but he’s also concerned about his best friend’s and comrade’s lives. He’s putting himself as the only one responsible for the failing of a mission that was way over their skill level to begin with (this is Tsunade’ responsibility, not Shikamaru’s) x, and such notion is not questioned by anyone in that hallway (not by his father, Temari, or the Hokage); furthermore, Shikaku makes a point to drag his child through the (metaphorical) mud in order to “tough him up” for the next mission. This rough treatment wouldn’t have happened if Shikamaru had not questioned his future as a ninja, Shikaku is making sure Shikamaru doesn’t quit as a shinobi, emotionally manipulating the boy to convince him that “missions will continue to happen with or without you, so why resign anyway?” Couldn’t the same be said in the opposite direction? If he’s not detrimental to the structure’s function why does he have to stay? Because it sets a bad precedent: one person resigning does desestabilizes the structure, as then that practice becomes normalized which puts the entire shinobi structure in jeopardy as no one is willing to sacrifice themselves for Konoha, so Shikakau needs to stop this mindset in order to guarantee a faithful soldier. The excuse is “if missions are happening anyway, why not make sure they all come back alive? Be their leader and guarantee their safety!” Yet not only was this said before Tsunade and Shizune communicated the health status of Shikamaru’s colleagues (so Shikaku wasn’t aware if they were even alive), but also, it changes nothing, as Shikamaru’s doubt not only is about his own insecurities as a leader, but also about his reluctance to be under this kind of mental and emotional pressure and responsibility, which will continue to happen until either he gains enough experience or resigns. Furthermore, having experience doesn’t even guarantee such doubts going away, as they might still be present but controlled enough because of Shikamaru’s constant exposure to them. This specific conversation is Konoha’s teachings in a nutshell, emotional manipulation and rough treatment while a child is on the verge of a mental breakdown and all.

There is no closure suitable for this analysis because it would imply an end to this theme that is not given by the simple fact that the manga continues on Naruto Shippuden. However, I don't remember any intrinsic changes in the main character's thinking for the rest of the story, but it would be far-fetched to affirm it without doing the pertinent analysis.

#naruto #naruto uzumaki #naruto analysis #naruto meta #naruto shippuden #anti konoha #anti shinobi system #long post #hero concept #hokage #hokage naruto

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boundinparchment · 8 months

Text

Dream a Little Dream of Me - XLVI

Celestia had a cruel sense of humor. He knew this, even before his days as a student. But to be given a soulmate? Now, when he openly blasphemed against the cursed island in the sky? He would outlive you and the dreadful fated bond that haunted your shared dreams. There was little point in this. He could at least put a Vision to good use. People were nothing but disappointments. He had no use for you. Until you pulled the bow across your instrument and awoke a part of him long buried by self-hatred and arrogance. Soulmate AU; Il Dottore/Female reader w/ established personality and backstory. Slow burn. Lore and world speculation and interpretation within; follows canon story where possible. Rated Mature. Rating subject to change. Mind the tags. On AO3 here.

A week was a generous window of time; in fact, it was an overestimation for a zealous designer hired to do interior work for a Fatui Harbinger. They arrived within a few days, during which you played before bed and Zandik taught you the difference between coffee brewed in Sumeru and Fontaine. He much preferred the later; your nation's palette ran far too sweet, even for him.

Zandik's obscured gaze lingered during the initial introductions in much the same way it had on you back in the House of Daena. Luckily, or unluckily, the designer's nerves were made of stronger stuff, and it was clear they spent their time dealing with precise and demanding clients. They were unbothered, both by Zandik's stare and about the fact they were speaking to a Fatui Harbinger and their presumed life-partner.

A certain level of discretion was respectable. However, you knew precisely what being in their position meant. The right things to say, not revealing too much on one’s face, timing everything just so. No one was ever certain of your true personage and everyone was happier for the work done. Information that spread from both parties as a result was a given.

The hair on the back of your neck stood up a little at the designer's passing remark about Lord Pantalone's generosity on their retainer.

"Pantalone knows who is worth the time and mora. I trust you’ll find a way to meet the needs outlined,” Zandik remarked. “Lest you disappoint him.”

The designer’s smile was stiffer but otherwise professional, even when Zandik parted and left you in the sudden silence of your shared apartments.

The space you slept in reminded you of the tiny graveyards dotting the Fontaine countryside. Pretty, in only the way a romantic notion of death allowed, time and effort and money spent on a space never seen by those who occupied it. In another life, you might have been offended that Zandik cared so little for where he slept. It was evident he valued your comfort though and what better expertise was there when Zandik held no opinion on the matter?

You led the designer through the biggest changes, namely the bedroom, right down to the thread count on the sheets and the arrangement of the furniture. New textures, patterns, wallpaper. Such a practice was common in Fontaine, especially in second or even third marriages. You didn’t care if the designer thought your initial focus on the most intimate space was strange; even if they said nothing to allude to such thoughts, their stiffness did not melt. Perhaps they held the idea that the Second Harbinger was more machine than man, a rumor that circulated less now that you were seen with him.

If your memories were fixed, changing the bedroom wouldn't matter anyway, but you would always carry the contrary knowledge, as would the walls. Spaces held memories, too.

The sitting area was next. You needed a workspace, at least a private one, and a spot by the windows afforded not only the best light but the best view of the mountains and beyond. The peaks here were nothing like the peaks in Fontaine. These were eternally snow-capped and jagged, like the teeth of a dragon, it's maw wide open with the Palace and surrounding town in the center, waiting to be swallowed.

A tale for children, Zandik had said without explanation when you first came to the land; now you knew how true that statement really was.

As you spoke, the designer suggested, and with a few quick sketches, you understood immediately why Lord Pantalone chose them specifically. From their sketch, you could only surmise that they intended to re-arrange the sitting area in the center of the room. Even back in the dreamscape, that space always seemed so insular. You could imagine Zandik with multiple Segments sitting, all being able to face one another and look over plans, never letting anyone else into the fold.

Cold and off-putting.

Exactly what you didn't want for either of you.

"A sofa this way, across from the fireplace and a table in front of it, creates a cozy space that separates itself without being too closed off. Right now, it's more of a conversation pit but there's no warmth. Might be able to flank the coffee table with armchairs if that's a must…but what to do with…"

You were shown swatches of fabric and examples of wood finishes but visualizing space was not your forte, you admitted.

Apparently, that was the best thing to say because they were immediate in rearranging the pre-existing furniture with gusto. Soon enough, you found yourself sitting on one of the sofas, maintained but worn, the low table in front of you, staring at the grate in front of the vacant fireplace.

The idea was tempting. You could imagine Zandik sprawled out in front of the fire, his head in your lap, as it had been once upon a time. That had felt so real back then. You could only wonder how such an arrangement might feel now, tangible and warm. The familiar yearning ache flared in your chest, radiating outward into your arms and down to your feet.

Somehow, parts of this were worse now that you were near one another, and yet your mind was all the clearer for it.

You turned your head towards the awaiting designer as you said, "It's perfect."

Through sheer proximity and time together, small intimate details showed themselves to both of you, as natural as breathing.

That was not to say that everything was perfect.

You overheard the way he spoke harshly to subordinates and threw daggers (proverbial and otherwise) at anyone who wasted his time. It set you on edge and scratched at the parts of your mind you wished Omega had touched. You withdrew just as Zandik caught himself, the damage done, your body present but your mind back in Fontaine. You set your mind free again with the familiar weight of your cello bow in your hands and the notes reverberated through your very being until you felt grounded again.

As of late, you had yet to hear him do more than sigh harshly through his nose. Instead, he asked about a particular detail in your composition from a previous night to distract himself from others' failures.

And Zandik, despite the freedom from his hivemind, thought himself into circles to the point where he wound himself so tight, he couldn't even sit. You caught him on occasion checking his pulse at his wrist and frowning, annoyed at the lack of control. Despite all of his own work, he couldn't discern whether he enjoyed the way you smiled because he was meant to or because you were, in fact, such a fascinating spark in his life.

It only took a few strokes of his hair to melt the unease away just long enough to get him to bed. He didn't have to sleep, you told him, but it wouldn't kill him to rest.

Enough common ground existed that you always came back into orbit of one another.

It would never be perfect.

Soulmates were never intended to be. Some had it easier than others but even then, every relationship needed work.

And neither of you were strangers to dedicating yourself to work.

You trekked down in the depths of the Palace some days after the designer's first meeting, intent on using some of the space to practice your claymore techniques using the baton with little fear of damaging anything irreplaceable. The large and open chamber that housed a half-assembled Ruin machine would do just fine; the high ceiling and open space allowed you to test the range of your motions.

Soon enough, not even the laboratories would be a sanctuary for you, not without additional precautions. Zandik's other assistants, the ones that worked beneath the Segments, had not yet returned to their assignments; that would change within the next few days. Progress had halted long enough. Plans were in motion and the remaining parts needed to be ready.

You were reminded of it as soon as you stepped foot into the workspace. Prototypes mid-construction were spread out, their blueprints on a nearby board with various notes to pinned to the main schematic. These were projects in a pipeline, years in the making and finally being brought out of theory and into trial. It was impossible to misconstrue their purpose.

And Natlan was as unstable as ever.

Retreating to a workspace far away from any current project, you called the baton and your claymore with ease, both appearing like loyal hounds at a whistle while the Meks shuddered to life at your presence. A touch of home that Zandik programmed for you. You could feel the Arkhe energy pulsing faintly, not unlike the way air tasted before a thunderstorm.

With enough practice, the weighty and unwieldy sensation was gone and you learned to control the force with minute changes in both the speed and distance you waved the receiver. Now it was a matter of hand-eye coordination to hit your targets continuously when you were no longer up close and personal in combat.

To your surprise, the diamond blades created by your Vision appeared without much prompting other than a call on your Geo resonance. They worked with the motion of the baton, crashing down like the sword dangling over a courier in an old fable who traded places with his king for a single day.

The release of Geo energy did wonders for your mood and your mind as much as playing did as of late. You still could not dream but you were far from being as disconnected as you once felt.

That counted for something.

You slammed your claymore down with a flourish, crushing the last of the Meks, Pneuma and Ousia energy cores sputtering and failing.

With the weapon in your hands, such a fight would have left you winded and struggling to retain your grip on the weapon, muscles and tendons screaming. You still exerted yourself but without the weight and momentum of the claymore to contend with, it was easier to focus on finding patterns to exploit.

"Better," Zandik called from behind you. "Much better control. How do your hands feel?"

You turned and vanished the baton with a flick of your wrist, smiling and wiggling your fingers in response.

"Nothing's locked up so far. We'll see after a longer rehearsal, though."

A slight frown tugged at his lips, gone before you could inquire further. He was, for a rare change of pace, dressed in gray slacks, with a white shirt open at the collar with a gray waistcoat to match. If you were attending a spring wedding in the hills of your homeland, he wouldn't look too out of place. Without the metallic bird on his shoulder, he seemed to hold himself even taller, if such a thing were possible.

"I might have to increase their aggression if you're going to wipe them out so quickly," Zandik teased with a smirk. "Considering you couldn't even summon your weapon not that long ago. If you're finished, I wish to discuss something with you concerning your memories. I believe I have a solution."

A solution? As you walked with him back to the office you once wandered through, you wracked your brain, your heart still pounding and breathing heavy from the fight. The last you spoke of such a thing was the first night in Snezhnaya. Reversing the tangles that Omega created was an eventual goal, you assumed, based on that conversation. One that might be obtainable when Zandik found his feet again as a single consciousness and returned to his station properly.

Part of you hoped you never had to undergo such an experience again.

Safely in the confines of the office, your eyes fell on a jar of an organ, its label illegible, before you looked at Zandik through your face covering. His mask remained in place, his hands occupying themselves with the various piles of notes and trinkets on the desk. He paused, finding what he was looking for and tucked it into his pocket before rounding the furniture to lean against it, facing you, hands on either side of him for a moment.

"I thought we agreed to give it time," you said, tone mild. "That everything might sort itself out."

Zandik dipped his head in a gesture you knew as slight agreement before he turned a point on its head and spun it like a top for a new angle. He tucked his hands into his pockets and continued.

"Time was allotted with minimal results. Your nightmares are indicative that, to some degree, your mind understands the falsehoods but cannot repress them entirely nor bring itself to let them go so the proper ones can surface."

"It's not as if we've tried to actively stimulate my real memories, Zandik. Not truly."

It came out a little harsher than you intended and carried the weight of the last couple of months since the discussion on the terraces of the Divine Tree. You watched as Zandik's lips grew into a thin line and the muscle in his jaw twitched as he clenched his teeth.

Arms crossed, you pulled your gaze away from him and took in the way the pyro lamps burned and danced to a pattern of their own making. They were bright enough to work by but never contained the true brightness of the sun.

That you weren't able to rearrange the webs and put everything back together naturally, without interference, wasn't your fault but it wasn't his, either. Going back to Fontaine wasn’t an option, or at least not one that didn’t come with more problems than it was worth.

Tackling this earlier was an impossibility when he was still processing his own death, metaphorical though it was.

"Of all people, I know how difficult it is to let go when you don't have the means nor the bandwidth."

If you were anyone else, he would have spat the sentiment with venom; instead, he sounded tired, bored even, as if the words were a given you should know by now.

"That wasn't fair, I'm sorry," you conceded, setting aside your mask and opening your arms again. "The time we've had needed to be used on more pressing issues and who's to say if we did try to provoke my memories that it would have worked?"

"Music is a powerful catalyst in driving unconscious memories forward, after all." He shook his head and then waved his hand causally. "You cannot tell me you've been able to bring anything to your waking mind from playing as of late. You do not likely have a proper reference point to try to match and so you cannot know what to play to try and awaken those memories. All you have are whatever untruths Omega painted like an artist reusing canvas, and if I offer alternatives to what you could have been doing, I am imposing a bias."

You inhaled slowly and took one hand in another, rubbing your usual sore spots to soothe your own frustrations. It was all you could do. Anything else required too much attention and you wanted to know what he had to say.

Instead of speaking, Zandik unclipped his face cover, set it on the desk behind him, and pulled what appeared to be a red star from his pocket.

A Segment's Ruin core, permanently marred with the data and memories of its owner.

He destroyed all them though, hadn't he?

Your heart sank slightly as you schooled your expression. He had reasoning, he always did. Even if it didn't necessarily aligned with your view.

His demeanor fell when recognition crossed your face but he held out his hand anyway, the core resting in his palm. You crossed the room and took it. Turning it over in your hand, you immediately noticed the symbol that marked the Segment. How could he possibly have kept…

"Omega was the only one in the entire network who held extensive knowledge of the memory grafting. I reviewed what's left on the Core—long before you shook me from my stupor—and I believe there's a way to reverse engineer the process," Zandik began.

Hands cupped yours and traced your returning callouses the way one traced a pen mark they admired or a soothing fabric.

"Your memories are the last remnant of my Segments. You carry your own version of events, ones that didn't happen, that Omega saw fit to weave. I spent many, many years using any and all means to get to desirable results; I won't bore you with such details. Regret doesn't come into the equation but as I said back in Sumeru, and as I reminded you, I needed the knowledge first. Now I have it."

"Reverse engineering would require me to undergo the same process, would it not?" you asked, flicking your gaze up to meet his eyes. "Attach me to an Akasha network, push me into my own mind?"

"More than likely. Omega was thorough in his notes on the Samsara Cycle and it was easy enough to navigate the machines and network when I found you the first time. I believe this course of action is for the best. For both of us. You should be able to dream again and the remnants of my past will cease to haunt."

After a beat, you asked "Worst case scenario?"

If you went into this idea know how bad it could possibly get, you could at least be prepared. Before, such a thought never would have crossed your mind; it certainly didn't when you were asked if you wanted to seek private patronage nor when you walked with Omega under the impression the Segment was Zandik. Foolish, really, considering what you learned about those in power in need of more.

"Omega couldn't sever our connection, although he tried," he said at last. "He wasn't your proper soulmate. It is unclear if…pruning the memories and their branches will affect more than just those memories. If removing part of myself will remove the whole. He simply laid himself on top of pre-existing memories…this may have far more ramifications."

Zandik was quiet but his hands never left yours. For a moment, you were back to damp grass and bright stars, investigative touches trying to understand what instrument you played.

"If I am to be done with my past selves, I must remove these lies from your mind," Zandik said evenly. "I believe the risk is worth it."

Risk. Such a tiny word for the gravity with which it pulled on your heart. The very thing Omega set up to complete was still a possibility despite the Segment being nothing more than ash (or mostly ash). He just never took the next step, a step that was simply pulling at a loose thread to unravel the whole.

You were about to pull your hands away and return the Core to him when Zandik's fingers tightened around yours, silently begging you to stay. He looked down at your joined hands as he sighed, squeezed yours lightly, and then looked at you again.

His eyes almost burned as he looked at you, expressive in ways that only the finest minute movements allowed; before you, he stood resolute, determined, and you could understand how even the most desperate souls clinging to their last moments of life might believe he had the answer. It was easy to mistake it for charisma, for arrogance, and easier still for it to have twisted into such things.

"I do not promise anything when it comes to my work; they're nothing more than lies wrapped up with a bow and I deal only in truths," Zandik whispered. "Should that happen, it changes nothing."

It changed everything, you wanted to scream. He would finally be able to get what he wanted, free himself from one Celestial shackle, done with the circular logic of trying to make predestination make sense amid all his own work.

Omega would win.

And you would be left hollow. Again. Left with nothing but memories of what used to be possible, of the connections ripped from you, choice truly taken from you. Either way, you lost and you didn't work for close to two decades only to…

"How would it not—" you started, the words stuck in your throat like thick porridge.

"Nothing, rooh 'albi. And no one will take that choice from me. No one."

Even from across the frozen training ground, weeks later that now marked your stay in Snezhnaya at two months, you could still feel the adamant resolution in subtle waves. Your foe this time was no Mek but a suit of corroded armor brought back from the depths of a rift in the ice further north, beyond the Cryo Dragon's resting ground. The bitter cold bit through your lined pants and warm coat, your cloak held in the crook of Zandik's arm as you pressed the soldier harder.

Sunlight reflected off the snow and made everything brighter; you were thankful your mask cut down on the glare.

You pinned the joints of the armor down with two diamond blades, Geo energy pulsing in waves as you sent a third through the seam between the body and the helmet. With a gesture for releasing a note, you waved the baton in a small circle while pinching your forefinger and thumb of your other hand together, following the motion in perfect sync. Your claymore gave a final whistling note as it cut through the air and stabbed through metal and corroded flesh.

It protested still, determined to get back on its feet despite your attempts to subdue.

Over your shoulder, you heard a familiar high-pitched whine before a glowing Cryo needle whizzed past your ear and hit its target. The soldier in starlight armor fell still, finally, its weapon turning dark as the remnants of life faded.

"One day, I'll be good enough to face you properly," you said with a smile when you approached Zandik as he finished up his notes.

Before you could retrieve your cloak, Zandik draped the thick fabric around your shoulders with practiced ease. He was either uncaring or oblivious regarding onlookers and that suited you just fine. People would talk; avoiding it would only cause more suspicion and both of you were growing tired of hiding like schoolchildren.

He opened his mouth as he smoothed out your cloak's lining and you nearly jumped when you heard another voice in his stead.

"Be careful, maestra. Our Doctor never turns down a challenge and he seldom loses."

Both of you turned your heads to find Lord Pantalone standing just at the bottom of the footpath, an accompanying Agent several steps behind, bowing low at the waist. Zandik's hand grazed your jaw as he pulled away and warm air puffed out in a cloud from his nose at the interruption. You were, for once, thankful for the cold and the fight; both burned your cheeks and hid any flush across your skin.

At least it was Pantalone, you tried to rationalize, but even the most well-behaved dogs still had teeth.

"What brings you down from your lofty office, Regrator?" Zandik drawled, tilting his head slightly.

"I take it then the Tsaritsa's couriers had as much trouble finding you as I did." Pantalone replied, his tone light.

The other Harbinger's cloak was open just enough to allow him the freedom to use his hands. He steepled his fingers together but pointed them in Zandik's general direction as he smiled, golden eyes hidden, his expression congenial.

"The Knave and Marionette returned successful from Fontaine; the Jester sends his orders for an audience with the Tsaritsa."

Zandik pulled his shoulders back, his back already straight.

"And he sent you to fetch me?"

"I thought it prudent to save him the trouble."

"You think it prudent to save the Tsaritsa an entire vault of mora but he has yet to determine if you're worthy of a higher seat. Perhaps it's time to change your strategy, Regrator."

Zandik pushed a breath through his nose, another puff of warm air escaping him the way smoke lingered in taverns in the lower reaches of the Court of Fontaine. He pulled in his arms into his cloak and made to walk ahead of the other Harbinger, his strides murderous as his cloak's hem whispered against the snow.

Pantalone turned and then stopped as you stepped to follow, at least up to the Palace. You watched as his smile grew wider and you caught a hint of gold as he looked at you. Mora was never an apt comparison you realized; his gaze was as threatening as the glimpse of a bullet in a chamber, a Duelist's final weapon ready to be drawn.

"No. Not you, maestra," Pantalone's tone was sickeningly sweet, patronizing, and your stomach burned.

He nodded to the Agent, who stepped forward and bowed to you, standing only when his Harbinger gestured to do so. The distinct unspoken air of disdain you were keenly familiar reared its head as you debated, for a moment, playing into it. You hadn't missed this nonsense, toeing the line and watching both tone and words, wondering just what step led to the path of least resistance.

"I wish to have a word with my colleague. You can take the scenic route back to the Palace. Anatoly here is quite competent in providing additional security in the Doctor's absence."

You turned your gaze up to Zandik, who had since stopped and turned back, mouth set into a frown. Other than the initial meeting in his lab, you hadn't told him about Pantalone's visit while he was disassembling the Segments. That was your battle to fight first; after all, you couldn't always rely on him.

But here, he was the one with the most authority. And the Ninth knew that, too.

"Whatever you have to say can be said openly, Pantalone."

The Ninth never looked back at Zandik, his sharp gaze trained on you. "No, I don't believe it can. Do you think me such a poor friend that I would discuss private matters as one discusses the weather?"

You smiled politely and even deigned to cross one leg behind another and give the closest gesture to a curtsy you could in a heavy cloak and pants.

"I do not wish to come between you. And your work is imperative; the Tsaritsa's Will must come first." You turned your obscured gaze to Zandik and said, "Send word if you will be further delayed but otherwise you know where I'll be, my Lord Harbinger."

Not like you went anywhere else other than the Tsaritsa's music room or your quarters anyway. The latter was probably a safer option, stifling though the notion felt.

Zandik inclined his head slightly but said nothing, instead turning around and continuing up the hill. Pantalone's smile faltered for a split second, an expression between disgust and admiration dancing across his face before he, too, turned and made his way back to the Palace.

You sought another path back up to the Palace, the Agent's footsteps never far behind as a bud of dread bloomed in your chest, invading all it could.

#dottore #il dottore #il dottore x reader #dottore x reader #dottore/female reader #il dottore/female reader #dottore x female reader #il dottore x female reader #genshin impact reader insert #soulmate au

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lisa972kdlz · 5 months

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(It's translated from French, I hope there aren't too many syntax errors ^^" In any case, enjoy your reading !)

Dreamtale Theories:

Here's a list of a few theories about the Dreamtale Lore, this story leaving some very interesting gaps to try and fill. Philosophical and scientific thoughts helpt me to concretise these ideas, but although I've been inspired by them, it's not with these points of view I'm going to develop, but rather a purely artistic point of view. Little by little, philosophy and science have been lost in my ramblings, giving way to imaginations that seemed to fit together. Artists imagine. They cheat, they lie, they don't care much for concrete realities. In the end, the only science I get into position on is the elements of the Dreamtale canon, at least those I've managed to pick out. Perhaps I've missed some information that would disprove these hypotheses, in which case it would be courteous of you to let me know.

On a more chill note, say I'm just a teenager with a overflowing mind who loves to come up with crazy theories with whatever I can get my hands on, and I write this mainly for fun ^^

In fact, I don't think for a second I'm right, so I don't know if I can call those theories... Maybe speculation ideas about Dreamtale I wanted to share? Almost headcanons, but still based on concrete elements of the canon.

So let's go, first theory!

☁︎ Canon/Fanon:

For starters, why do I insist so much on canonicity? Because when it comes to Dreamtale, the boundary between Fanon and Canon is not always well understood, given that there are a lot of preconceived ideas on the subject.

The fact is, I see Dreamtale's Fanon and Canon as two completely separate worlds. And yet, understand that I hate adhering to variants of this and that for anything and everything. The idea of viscerally separating the Canon and Fanon sides of an oeuvre makes no sense to me, especially in an open world where each universe is a piece of a larger puzzle, where the world we're presented with is meant to be a huge playground.

And at this stage, if we do that with this universe, we could do the same for all the existing stories, no? Nevertheless, for THIS world and this world in particular, I think it's important.

For there is a crucial difference between C!Dreamtale and F!Dreamtale, a difference that completely alters the interpretation of the oeuvre. Fanon doesn't just make a few interpretative changes... He changes the very nature of a character: Corrupted Nightmare. And that, well... It's a bit complicated not to separate the two, especially when the Fanon version is so popular... Canon, he is dead and his body belongs to another character who has his own personality and background. Fanon, he's alive. Trapped, imprisoned, manipulated, split into two personalities (Night and Mare) or fundamentally evil, depending on the case, but alive.

Night is experiencing a bit of Asriel syndrome: it was because Undertale fans couldn't accept his death that the first AU's were created. And for Dreamtale, there was such misunderstanding about this (Because reading the Prologue, everyone agreed that Corrupted Nightmare was...well... Nightmare), that the majority think this is official. (It has to be said, it wasn't evident let me reassure you...)

To this we can add the fact that most of the time, in very fanon fanfics and fancomics, the other two trees don't exist or are never mentioned, that Corrupted (I refuse to call him "Nightmare" simply because he isn't Nightmare) isn't a real person or doesn't exist at all, that Dreamtale is an AU of Undertale, so made up of codes like the other AU's, but all that still depends on people's interpretation and knowledge of the real Dreamtale.

To put it more bluntly, and if the boundary's still unclear: F!Dreamtale is a part of the Undertale Multiverse, while C!Dreamtale is its own universe.

Since I like both aspects equally, and in order to get everyone on the same page, I've come up with a mini theory:

Dreamtale Fanon, being the Dreamtale developed by fans based on the belief that Corrupted Nightmare is more or less Night, has strayed so far from its original story (it focuses more on the "broken brothers" relationship of the twins, their mutual development and their relationships with the characters of the Undertale fandom), that over time, by putting down roots in the world of Undertale and through the influence of the creators, Dreamtale would have "split." This double would then have merged with the codes of the Undertale Multiverse, because Dreamtale was so well integrated into it that this version of it ended up becoming imprinted on the very core and codes. That's why, in F!Dreamtale, we don't always mention the other trees, since they never joined the Undertale Multiverse. Even we NEVER mention them in Dreamtale's AU's like Swapdream or the alternative Multiverses like Dreamswap, Swapverse, etc. That's why Dream and Nightmare exist in the alternative Multiverses,AU's and not the rest (Vampireverse, Empireverse, Minuscultale and so on).

The result is two Dreamtales:

The Canon Dreamtale, which belongs to Joku,

The Fanon Dreamtale, which belongs to the Fandom Joku too.

Well yeah, it's still Dreamtale, so it still belongs to Joku, no matter what haters want ◖눈ᴥ눈◗

Duh.

Also, this definitely doesn't prevent fanfics from being based on C!Dreamtale, it's even advisable to give it the prominence it deserves. Hence the idea of completely separating these versions, because fans can make fanfics about the Canon, and although it's fanon, it won't be similar to the F!Dreamtale version at all.

Two worlds taking different thematic paths created on the uncertainty of Night's death (like a "Schrodinger's Night" ͡° ͜ · ͡°).

Next theory!

☁︎ Tree of Feelings/Creators link:

This is a question I picked up when wondering about Dream and Corrupted's various attacks. Where Dream needs a body to hold him together, Corrupted has so many black apples that he can physically hold himself together without a body, and more or less correctly. Do positive and negative energies function differently? Is it because Corrupted has more apples that he holds on better? What is positive and negative energy in Dreamtale's Lore?

At the beginning, I'd started from the principle that Energy with a big E, being what makes up absolutely all existing things, humans and monsters alike, could be used by Dream and Corrupted to be converted into either magical energy or physical energy. As Dream only holds one apple and enjoys a body, he'd mindlessly convert his energy into magical energy, which is why he has a soul similar to human's souls and why he's able to heal as green magic does, or cause damage as white magic does. For Corrupted's part, possessing no body of his own and having amassed enough power from his hundreds of apples, he would have to convert negative energy into physical energy. This would require a great deal of power and would therefore explain why, despite he's stronger than Dream, he's not 999X stronger than him. He already uses a lot of his energy simply... Holding on without melting.

I also theorised that if one of them were to acquire all the apples, not only would it have a stable body, but it would also be able to convert this energy as it saw fit. Corrupted could then generate magical attacks AND have a physical body.

The trouble is... Dreamtale isn't actually part of Undertale. So there's no Magic,Physics duality. And even assuming that Dream converts that energy into magical energy because he's unconsciously copying the way his adopted world works, he's still canonically attacking with positive energy and not MAGIC made from positive energy. Energy comes in many forms, but I don't think he can control it in such a pure form...

All this can still hold together, but what bothers me most is that pure Energy would have... A positive side and a negative side? And what's more, related to feelings? Why not, but I'm not really pleased with.

Dream and Corrupted's energy is material, palpable. Of course, we could stop at the fact that it's just a magical energy like we find everywhere in stories and not ask ourselves any more questions.

But I love wracking my brains to find answers to questions that no one wonder, so I'll keep going èwé–

What kind of energy would this refer to? Not energy in the scientific sense, because that's independent of any emotion, whereas in Dreamtale, positive energy, for example, is directly linked to positive feelings.

Because tree of FEELINGS–

The most plausible thing I found with is that positive and negative energies are linked to the spiritual energy: auras, meditation, etc. Proof of its existence is fairly hazy in the world of creators. But in the world of fiction...? What if? This energy of consciousness exists, whether it's real or not. And if it's not in the real world, as long as there are people who believe in it, then it's in the world of fiction. What if the fruits of the tree of feelings were the material manifestation of this spiritual energy produced by the consciousness of the creators? Just as a world is created by a creative mind, what about Dream and Nightmare were the guardians of the feelings of fiction as the direct embodiment of the emotions that creators instil in their work? This could be the reason why Dreamtale isn't made up of codes, because it's the direct embodiment of a philosophy and not just another fictional universe among many.

I can't decide whether it's too obvious or too far-fetched ^^". It was the concept in Underverse that made me think of it... There are references between what Nightmare implies in 0.6 and creators tearing up their own universes because they're filled with negative emotions. Underverse isn't canon, but there's nothing to stop this idea of the creator,feeling link being applied to Dreamtale.

Especially as it allows us to imagine something even bigger that could work in relation to the three trees...

But before that, a little theory about Corrupted, because the more we learn about him, the more this character becomes... Mysterious.

☁︎ Something is rotten in the state of Dreamtale :

Ever since I knew that the three trees were part not of the Undertale Multiverse but of all the other Multiverses, I've been wondering why it should be Corrupted who embodies absolute Evil and not someone else. After all, we know plenty of evil lords, don't we? Isn't it a bit pretentious to claim him to be above everyone else?

But one detail, one nuance, makes all the difference.

By definition, Corrupted does not embody Evil, but negative feelings. He embodies them because he has become their guardian, their bearer. What I'm trying to say is that black apples and evil are not linked... Black apples are not fundamentally evil. They have no conscience; they are neutral, they exist for balance and have a purpose of their own.

No, Corrupted is Evil for another reason. He's Evil because he's simply wicked. If the personification of negative feelings is evil, it's not because the negative emotions or the apples are mean, but because they are themselves corrupted, alienated by a consciousness that manipulates them irresponsibly. Why would the Entity feel hatred? Hatred and not despair or dread? Because he was already filled with hatred, or because he has a fighting personality that allows him to exploit this emotion for its dark projects. Is it a sign that Corrupted isn't worthy of being their carrier? After all, he's not their basic guardian; it was Nim, then Nightmare.

In this way, that doesn't prevent him from being THE allegory on the scale of all dimensions (or of a large area of dimensions, if you don't like the idea that Dreamtale is linked to all fictional universes) , because the role relating to negative FEELINGS in a neutral behaviour is rather original. He's an allegory of negative feelings that doesn't need to be, and that gives a false image of what negative feelings actually are; the pejorative and common image we have of them. In reality, negative feelings are neither good nor bad; they mean no harm to others. The one who wishes them harm is the Entity, Corrupted.

He's a simple villain who has got his hands on power that doesn't belong to him and is out of control with.

...

Maybe not a 'simple' villain either?

Because, another theory, I think that Corrupted is this fourth guardian that Joku mentioned. Firstly because I don't know who else he could be, but also because he knows about the other dimensions outside Undertale. How would he know if he didn't come from outside? Who else would this fourth guardian be, and why would Joku mention him? What's more, a number of elements fit together with this theory, notably his strategy of manipulating Nim (Nim is far from stupid, and he probably wouldn't have succeeded so easily if he didn't already know a little about her), in order to create Dream and Nightmare, dividing positivity and negativity to undermine the pillars of balance, all with the aim of finding a carnal envelope and taking possession of the Tree of Feelings...

Like a plan that has been fine-tuned for years and years... Add to this the anecdote that the tree guardians are not the original guardians and that Nim learnt something awful about them before leaving for Undertale, and you'd think there was a rotten menace already pulling the strings in the shadows, long before our dear twins were born.

So what is Corrupted looking for? What's his ultimate plan? To spread negativity across all dimensions and reign supreme as a Living God?

A fine programme... But what if we took his ambitions one step further?

☁︎ Feelings, Life, Magic:

Why three trees? Why THESE three trees? Why place them at the centre of the Multiverse? Why are feelings, life and magic at the heart of the worlds? What link can we make between them?

Feelings, well ok, that works... Life and death, logical... Magic? Why magic? Magic isn't a necessary element in the Multiverse, sometimes it doesn't even exist... Why a tree of Magic and not a tree of Souls, or a tree of Virtues and Sins, for example? Undertale is very closely linked to magic, but that's not the case for all worlds...

This is where we come back to the idea that apples are the materialised forms of the feelings creators apply to their work... Does this also work with Magic and Life? Yes, it does. Trees don't just take care of Feelings, Life and Death and Magic... They reflect what creators need to create.

Feelings, as we've said, are exactly what it takes to find inspiration, to feed the imagination like maintain fire. As long as the feelings remain, so do the passion and inspiration.

Life, on the other hand, is quite simply what enables a work to exist, to remain. Life is the nest in which the spirit bathes, gathering together the experiences of the creator, housing and preserving them. You could also say that the more lives there are to witness a work, the more real a work is.

Inspiration, yes... The environment, all right... But what is needed to create something out of nothing? To make the unreal real? The immaterial material?

Nothing more than a little magic ✨ !

Not the kind of magic you find in fiction with wizards and pseudo-scientific logic, no... Magic in the sense of believing in something irrational. To believe that these worlds exist, to have faith without needing proof. Accepting imagination. Not in a religious connotation, but in the sense: Magic = Consenting Suspension of Disbelief.

Feelings: The fuel.

Life: The oxygen.

Magic: The spark.

Fire triangle is complete.

What if these three trees were the equivalent of the Triforce of Creation itself? Feelings to stimulate, Life to sustain, Magic to materialize.

What would happen if, by some mischance, an ill-intentioned person managed to seize the power of these three trees? What would be the consequences? In the end, perhaps this mysterious Entity wants more than just the golden apple in Dream's care?

And if these three trees work very well together, what would the fourth guardian be doing?

Would he be the original guardian?

Or the exact opposite of Creation: Destruction and Nothingness?

(Voilà! I hope theses theories will have interested you ^^ And you, what do you think? Do you have theories about what's going to happen in the Dreamtale sequel?)

Dreamtale belongs to @jokublog

#dreamtale #dream sans #nightmare sans #Nim #theory #jokublog #joku #corrupted nightmare sans #Dreamtale analysis

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wainwrightjakobshammerlock · 5 months

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THE WAINLOCK GUIDE

Preface

Hello! Welcome to the Wainlock guide! I’m Nikolai Jakobslock, your host and number one scholar in the ways of Borderlands old man bara. Today I will be presenting you with my Knowledge of these two silly peepaws, and how to write them; and trust me, I am qualified to speak on this topic. They do not call me the CEO of Wainlock for nothing.

DISCLAIMER 1: Certain aspects of this, especially the symbols sections, are subjective. Like all fictional characters, these two are ultimately up to interpretation. Here, I am just laying down the way I personally interpret these two, and what I can extrapolate from canon.

DISCLAIMER 2: This text assumes you have played BL3 and BL2, and have at least basic familiarity with these two. I am not going to explain the entire Borderlands lore here. Go watch EruptionFang’s timeline for that, or whatever. I tried to be comprehensive, but even I have my limits.

DISCLAIMER 3: This might be a little bit incoherent because I have ADHD, which means I have a crippling addiction to writing walls of text. Also, English is not my first language. Sorry.

CONTENT WARNINGS: Usual Borderlands fare (gore, animal and human death, guns), alcohol, drugs, mentions of sexual assault, abuse, parental neglect.

Sir Alistair Hammerlock(-Jakobs)

Backstory

Hammerlock is from the planet Hermes. Not much is known, but it apparently has a thin, helium-rich atmosphere, and forests. It is ultimately up to you how you interpret this information, as we haven’t visited the place yet.

It’s unclear when he left home, but what is somewhat clear is that he left early and has no intentions of returning. His family is, or at least styles themselves, like a noble house; getting rich off of questionable ventures (they have what he calls “blood money”) and genuinely being shady as all fuck. Additionally, his father was needlessly harsh (sending him to Pandora as a punishment for swearing in a formal environment), and his mother doesn’t seem to be a good person either, considering how even Aurelia is waiting for her to die.

While he is by no means poor, he seems to live (or have lived, until he literally married into a multi trillion dollar megacorporation) in relative squalor compared to his turbo-mansion owning sister, so it’s safe to say he inherited none of his family’s fortune. (Not to mention how rusty and scrappy his prosthetics look.) He represents the trope of the impoverished blue-blood, as well as someone who defected from what we might consider decadence.

Hammerlock is a hunter, adventurer and gentleman. He is described as such in his very intro cards, and this has echoed through his entire character.

He has been all over the Borderlands, perhaps even all over the Six Galaxies, and seems to have a “this reminds me of…” for every situation. He worked in corporate advertising, he’s seen wonders beyond imagining, he’s written at least one book on the myriad creatures of the galaxy. He’s befriended pretty much every Vault Hunter of note. Both Eista (a fellow hunter) and the lore book admit he has a legendary reputation.

That being said, of course, a life of adventure isn’t so glamorous as it seems. He admits to having a large collection of scars from being shot, bitten and mauled so much, and there’s even a line that implies he was once sexually assaulted. And of course, then there’s Old Slappy.

Personality

Despite the trauma mentioned above, Alistair doesn’t seem to budge from his shiny, chipper demeanor. He’s probably the nicest guy on Pandora, in fact.

He’s honest, kind, doesn’t get angry when the player messes up a sidequest and kindly explains what you need to do.

However, he also doesn’t often show explicit (negative OR positive, though mostly negative) emotion. Rarely does his steely gentleman persona - or perhaps, armor - break. The closest it gets is in either his Parting Words echolog, when he seems on the verge of crying as he says what he thinks is his last “farewell”, or in the ending of Guns, Love and Tentacles, where his voice cracks TWICE as his concern for his beloved reaches its apex.

Also in that ending, he admits he “was so afraid”. This is one of the only 2 times he genuinely admits fear (outside of the immensely gentlemanly and polite expression “I’m afraid I…”), and this is understandable. He’s a fearless adventurer! He’s not afraid of anything!

Except he is. He very much is. He just does not admit it to anyone willy nilly.

In fact, he doesn’t admit much of his emotions in general. He is a stoic, the archetypal gentleman with a stiff upper lip. (This is far more pronounced in BL2 than in BL3: I choose to interpret it as Wainwright helping his beloved open up a little.) But it is a facade, and underneath is a tangled bundle of repressed emotions.

What is NOT a facade, however, is his sheer hope. Regardless of the things he’s seen, he does seem to genuinely believe in the inherent goodness and kindness of people. He was willing to give Aurelia one last chance, even after all she’s done.

Keep in mind to not mistake this for naivety or harmlessness, of course. Alistair is intelligent, and as bloodthirsty as you’d expect a seasoned explorer of the Borderlands to be. In fact, his thrill-seeking tendencies sometimes even teeter on the masochistic. I wouldn’t be surprised if his (human) killcount was in the early triple digits.

His passion for and dedication to his life’s work as a zoologist is equally admirable, and personally reminds me of the way an autistic is passionate for their special interest (because I am autistic). This is a man with a zest for life, and enough energy to power a large city for a week.

Dialogue

Alistair speaks with that typical, quintessential Received Pronunciation accent. His voice is crisp, clear, melodic.

His vocabulary is very sizable. Often will he use complex, sophisticated words, and that often ends up with his lines being overly verbose. Like, really long. I recommend picking up a thesaurus to find the fanciest synonyms you can find.

If he does swear, it’s usually something light like “bloody”, or a verbose/fancy version of a preexisting swear, like “fecal matter!” instead of “shit!”.

Despite him talking like the Victorian English gentleman directly stolen from a steampunk novel that he is, he is not above peppering in the occasional hard swear or funny word. “I’m standing right here, dude.” comes to mind. Also, I just think he should be allowed to say fuck in sufficiently emotionally charged situations.

Speaking of those, we don’t really ever see him having a proper breakdown, but if he would, I think he’d just vomit a tide of half-formed word salad.

Associations, Symbols, Motifs, Etc.

This section is subjective.

Air, weather, wind (something something Hermes is the god of messengers)

Lightning, energy

The Sun

Snow (NOT ice, that’s his sister’s thing)

Nature, fauna (obviously), but also human naturalism; awareness of man as an animal with biological functions or as a persistence predator

Animal death: bones, teeth, fossils, leather-bound books, fur coats, taxidermy

Precision, finesse (it’s weapon based characterization: sniper rifles are his preference after all)

The ideal of a medieval knight: chivalry and nobility but also armor and weapons

Swords, rapiers, knives; scissors, needles, razors

Mechanisms, specifically clockwork (steampunk comes to mind again)

Glass & earthenware in general, especially cracked (scarred)

Travel, motion

Metals: silver, copper, brass and bronze; anything molten, polished or scratched

Light

Sugar, particularly sugary baked goods (biscuits), with the exception of certain savory flavors like meat

What NOT to do

DO NOT give out first name privileges to too many characters.

The only people in the series who ever call Alistair by his first name are his sister and his husband. Everyone else calls him Hammerlock. If someone calls him by his first name, it better fucking be someone important to him, like a long-time close friend.

DO NOT fall into racist cliches holy fuck man.

If I have to see one more work where a character of color is described as having chocolate colored skin I will go insane. There’s, like, a 100000 descriptors you can use and you choose the racist cliche.

DO NOT ignore the fact he’s disabled.

Do some research on phantom pains, how prostheses can be both useful and cumbersome (often the latter).

Wainwright Del Frisco Jakobs(-Hammerlock)

Backstory

Wainwright’s homeworld is Eden-6, which is thankfully a location we can visit in game. In fact, we can even visit his ancestral home, the Jakobs Estate.

As far as we know, he has never been offworld until Alistair sort of dragged him out of his house and into the great beyond. He knows the nooks and crannies of the manor like the back of his own hand, and uses that knowledge to outrun and misdirect Troy, among other things. In a way, he is that place, - explicitly being described as a homebody.

We do not know much about his mother Margaret, but he seems to miss her dearly. His father Montgomery however… well. Ol’ monty was quite neglectful. He refused to spend money to maintain certain parts of the estate, or to ensure his son had a good life. When Winny opened up about not feeling strongly about running the family business, Monty seems to have pinned the blame on his son’s boyfriend, and not on his own shitty parenting.

That being said of course, it’s not like Wainwright didn’t go out of the house at all. ECHO logs describe him as going to bars around the basin, mingling with the “common folks”, things like that. For an heir to a megacorporation, he sure is surprisingly down to earth (in stark contrast with Katagawa Jr., another corpo higher-up we meet in BL3).

Additionally, before the CoV killed everyone, the manor was full of staff and relatives and visitors. It was alive, its own microcosm of the world, and young Wainwright definitely made friends with a great many of them.

Now, they’re all gone, and the manor’s empty and largely unused. Decrepit, even. But he could restore it to glory.

Not to mention the mistakes his corporate predecessors have made are waiting for him there, in his office, to be unfortunately discovered…

Personality

Wainwright is a fairly simple, good ol’ boy. Humble, insecure, even anxious - but also painfully stubborn (that last one is a Jakobs family trait, if a certain line is to be believed).

He is far more open about his emotions, and not just when he’s drunk. Sometimes he curses like a witch, yet joyfully exclaims just how much he’s glad that the Vault Hunter saved his life (thank you David Wald, you really put your whole pussy into this performance).

Speaking of drunkenness, this is a crucial part of him, and not just because he drinks whiskey a lot. At best, he’s a social drinker and at worst he’s drowning his sorrows.

He’s somewhat grumpy, with some of that old man crankiness in him, but also not really. Preferring peace and quiet, he himself is fairly peaceful, but heavens fucking help you if you disturb him. In essence, the guy’s a period piece white suit wearin’ southern gentleman: charming, fine, but also fairly “stiff” or “slow”. Except without the shitty parts (i.e. racism), thank god.

Wainwright is fiercely protective of his own, being prepared to sacrifice anything for them - including himself, even (back to that humbleness and insecurity, but with a selfless bent). He’s also not above using underhanded tactics to get what he wants (back to that stubbornness again) from people he doesn’t trust or like. He’s the Wisdom to Alistair’s Intelligence, if that makes any sense; he can be a little bit clueless sometimes (you’re supposed to run AWAY from the glowing pit cultists are sacrificing people to, not towards it!).

For people he does trust, though - he definitely believes in fairness and kindness. Reliance, civility, honor, all that, are qualities he absolutely has even if he doesn’t think so.

He’s not particularly out for blood unless it’s revenge related or self defense, but this being Borderlands his killcount is absolutely above 0.

Personally, I think he also has a slight epicurean or perhaps even hedonist streak, enjoying and savoring life’s pleasures as they come and go, but understanding that suffering is a painful, inevitable part of life.

Dialogue

Wainwright speaks in a typical southern accent, even though Eden-6 being the Space Louisiana that it is, you’d expect a specifically Cajun accent (and to me, this man is 100% Cajun as fuck). If TvTropes is to be believed, then this is something that happens often, but y’know. His voice is warm, soft, flowin’.

Somehow, his speech strikes a perfect balance between crass and classy. He often uses wacky, flowery country metaphors and idioms, but also perfectly enunciates words like “perforate”, knowing what they mean. His vocabulary is as rich as Alistair’s if not more (reading a ton of books will do that, but also Monty says shit like morose ruminations, so.), he just doesn’t use big words as often.

He also swears much, much more frequently. When he’s drunk, or emotionally riled up, he swears up a storm. Unfortunately he never says the f word because Gearbox was too afraid to give him such power, lest his homosexuality evaporate the CoV in 5 seconds (joke).

Associations, Symbols, Motifs, Etc.

This section is subjective.

Earth, soil, mud

Gunpowder, smoke, ash, oil

The Moon

Gardens (something something Eden is garden of paradise, something something the untended gardens of the Jakobs Estate)

Fire: specifically in the context of the hearth, the fireplace, or guns

Guns and gun parts (obviously)

Wood (including woody smells like sandalwood, pine sap and cedar), paper

Cloth, silk, treated leather. Also sewing

Metals: iron, lead, gold (including in the context of gold = money, riches)

Force, strength (again, think of it as weapon-based characterization: he uses a shotgun)

The comforts of home, stillness

Doors and doorways, curtains, hallways, furniture

Time and its passing: people and alcohol aging, rotting wood, heritage and inheritance

The archetype of a king or heir to the throne

Blood, bandages

Repair, mending and maintenance, whether literal or metaphorical

Salt, with the exception of “old fashioned” sweets like syrup or honey

THE HEART STILL BEATS! THE HEART STILL BLEEDS!

What NOT to do

DO NOT assume he’s uneducated just because he’s got a southern accent.

This guy was born into a rich ass corporate family. He can perfectly say “fatal testicular devastation” without falling over his words. He’s a bookworm on levels heretofore unseen. He probably had an expensive university, or perhaps personally tutored education. This man is wise, just in different situations than Alistair is.

DO NOT type out the accent too much.

But also, DO NOT not type it out at all. Typing out those in’s and an’s can actually assist the reader with imagining his voice, recognize when he speaks, AND it’s canon accurate because the in-game subtitles also do that!

Then how much should you DO type it out? See above: around as much as the in-game subtitles would. I personally like to type it out more strongly when Wainwright is tired, and weakly when he’s pissed, but to each their own.

DO NOT ignore the fact that he’s disabled.

Yes I am saying this again. He’s half blind, and it affects him greatly. And it doesn’t look like it can be replaced with an artificial one - though if it could, I doubt he’d want it at this point.

Also he’s old. He’s probably got them creaky joints.

Putting Them Together

General Feel

They’re in love. They’re so painfully, and deeply, and sweetly in love.

They met on a hunting expedition which Monty arranged (and then it bit him in the ass a little LMAO), and it kinda went from there.

Their relationship is already long-term by BL3, based on trust and communication. They are comfortable with one another, willing to be vulnerable. Opening each other up, seeing both the good and the bad, and accepting all of it.

Their loyalty towards one another is unquestionable. If one ordered the other to kill, the other would most likely not hesitate. Speaking of violence, their fighting styles are directly opposite to one another, but would actually synergize really well together.

Of course, they bicker, like any old married couple does. But it’s all in good fun. If they have genuine disagreements, they talk them out like actual fucking adults, and either try to compromise or concede to the other temporarily. There’s no “power dynamic” bullshit involved here (outside of a sexual context, which is not something I will cover here), just two equals.

They’re very different - and both have their insecurities about this, which are explored in GL&T. But in the end, they love each other just as they are.

While the only things we canonically know they find attractive in one another are their accents and facial hair, I think a major point is the other’s personality, mind, outlook on existence. They both appreciate the world and affirm life, but in different ways: Alistair with his zest and energy, Wainwright with his calmness and slow enjoyment. In my friend’s words, they’re each other’s bitches who they pulled by being autistic. (And they definitely find each other hot and badass, let’s be real here.)

Their relationship has genuinely improved their lives, from what we can see: Wainwright gained the courage to stand up to his father, Alistair started being more expressive with their emotions. Doubtlessly this extends to other areas of their lives: Alistair being provided a place to rest from his adventures, Wainwright being dragged out from his home and experiencing the wonders of the world. They even hyphenated eachother’s surnames.

And, of course, Wainwright definitely uses some of his vast wealth to spoil his husband to bits. It’s what he deserves, really.

They say nobody’s funnier than queers, and they also say nobody’s funnier than disabled people. Well these two are both of those, and they crack jokes a lot! Not like your average Borderlands character, no - their domain is actually somewhat funny (in an old person way) dry one liners and silly quips.

Dynamics and Such

Wainwright as a sort of “dame (or rather, gentleman) of the heart”, a source of strength for Alistair, his meaning, which shelters him from fear. (“Give me strength, Winny. All I do, I do for you.”)

Alistair searching for something all his life, Wainwright waiting for something all his life. Obviously, this something is love.

Mutual admiration, almost worshipful reverence towards one another.

Silly little old men sitting on their silly little porch. Together. Gayly perhaps.

Culture shock. They come from two very different environments, and have very different tastes.

Generally just. Opposites attract. That is the core of their dynamic and one should keep that in mind.

Associations, Symbols, Motifs, Etc.

This section is subjective.

Juxtapositions of any kind, stark contrasts

Eclipses, stars

Things that should be complete opposites but actually strengthen one another: salted caramel, alloys of various metals, etc.

“Light” drugs: coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol. As well as different ways of enjoying them

Books

Suits and other finery

Disability

GUNS (again)

Nature, the world, seasons, flora AND fauna

Swordfighting, dueling, consensual & safe sparring

Domesticity in general: literally sleeping together, cooking, tidying the house

Burials, graveyards, memory

Hygiene, care; hair washing and cutting, shaving, bathing; wound mending

Old timey homosexual symbols: green carnations and lavender, outdated terms (even reclaimed slurs), aspects of kink, etc.

What NOT to do

DO NOT apply heteronormative dynamics to them.

No, Alistair is not feminine just because he’s nice or bottoms or whatever the fuck else. He’s not feminine at all, actually.

Speaking of which, I promised not to be too sexual here, but I NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS - the top/bottom dichotomy seen in fandom is unrealistic. In general, but especially in this case. Not only does one’s sexual position indicate nothing about personality - position switching is actually an important part of a long term established relationship. So, avoid that shit like wildfire.

They’re both masculine, in the sense a fine gentleman is. Just because that masculinity is “dated” to our modern eyes doesn’t make it any less masculine. Fuck off.

DO NOT tag them if they’re a 5 second cameo. Or if they don’t even appear in the work yet.

Look, I get it. And if you’re reading this guide, you’re probably not the kind of person that would do that. But also, I am not in the Sir Hammerlock (Borderlands) tag to see your perpetually unfinished rewrite fic. Or to see your random ass ship fic that has jack shit to do with them.

“But what else do I use?!” MINOR OR BACKGROUND CHARACTER(S).

It’s fine if you have their wedding or the estate as the setting somehow. But if that’s the case, I hope they’re a BIT more than a 5 second cameo. They’re the hosts for fucks sake.

Sorry if I sound mad about this. It’s because I am.

Additional Resources

Onelook Thesaurus: my online thesaurus of choice. It also searches for synonyms, phrases, and words you can explain but don’t actually remember.

old men yaoi.zip: A .zip file of EVERY BL3 line of these two’s I could find that is not tied to a main quest, sidequest, or ECHO log in convenient .wav form. Ripped straight from the game. VERY useful, as “idle lines” often contain great trivia, but fishing for them in-game is a pain in the ass.

locres14.txt: The BL3 subtitle file, also directly ripped from the game. Incredibly large and not particularly helpful in of itself, but if you open it in Notepad++ for instance and use the search function you can find some good stuff. Particularly useful for writing dialogue, obviously.

Conclusion

Thank you for reading this! I hope this will help at least one person write these two a little bit better. They’re my favorite characters in the entire series, and it saddens me to see they get barely any fancontent outside of what I make. (My fics constitute 31% of their AO3 tag, for fucks sake!)

#my post #borderlands #text post #long post #bl3 #alistair hammerlock #wainwright jakobs #wainlock #jakobs manor metas #old man yaoi #old men yaoi #old man bara #old men bara

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k-s-morgan · 10 months

Note

Hey, I hope you are doing okay! Reading TGSTLTH is honestly a religion for me now, it is an amazing story.

I particularly like your interpretation of Sebastian being a social outcast in hell, it really fits the canon. In the Jack the Ripper Arc, where Will and Sebastian first encounter each other, Will asks "Why would a beast like yourself want to dress up as a butler?" Or something among the lines of that. And it goes to show how out of character Sebastian is among his kind.

That being said, I have this theory that demons do not usually take an active role in their contracts, they are usually sitting on the sidelines using magic to solve problems and whatnot. I only think this because of the Reapers and Angela's reaction to Sebastian's role in his and Ciels contract. Every other supernatural being seems to not understand why Sebastian is demeaning himself by presenting himself as a human butler and serving Ciel directly. From what you've said about demons, they quickly fulfill their master's wish and don't spend time pretending to be a human, especially not in a lowly position as a butler.

I was wondering what you think on this subject, is Sebastian one of the only demons to serve their masters as a human? Did Sebastian ever have such an active role before, where he changed his form for his master?

Thx ❤️ xoxo

Hi! Thank you so much for your wonderful, encouraging words!

I always felt that Sebastian has a contradictory status in Hell. On the one hand, he's obviously strong, and demons like Claude and Hannah seem to respect him (in a twisted way). He holds himself with a lot of pride and dignity, he's confident and self-assured. But on the other hand, he's so greedy for praise. He basks in it, he loves attention, and he genuinely enjoys the concept of being admired. This, plus the comments everyone else makes got me thinking that Sebastian is a weirdo who doesn't feel like he belongs in his world, with his fellow demons. He might have their respect but not their true admiration and regard, so he compensates for it by showing off in front of humans, most of whom are more authentically responsive to it. That's one of the reasons why earning Ciel's regard is so important to him: Ciel is extremely hard to please now, but when it happens, his stiff acknowledgement means the world. Sebastian lives for it now, even if he's not fully aware of the extent of it yet.

And yes, I also think that other demons seek to end their contracts as soon as possible. They prey on humans who make easy wishes, fulfil them through magic and then eat them, often in one day. Sebastian is different as he enjoys a challenge. Like he himself said, he got tired of mindless eating. In BoA, he thinks how annoying it might be to serve Ciel but how he can wait even if it takes a lifetime because it should pass quickly enough for him. Granted, he doesn't look all that eager, but it shows that he was willing to spend a lot of time cultivating a perfect soul for a meal. This amazes all other supernatural creatures who come in contact with him. The fact that Sebastian not only serves Ciel long-term but is clearly going above and beyond the contract is even more confusing to demons.

I imagine Sebastian had a few lengthy contracts before, but I don't think they lasted for more than a couple of years, and they signified only extremely interesting cases. We know how easily Sebastian gets bored - he tried to eat Ciel just months into their contract, so I doubt the situation was different with others. I'll probably flesh this all out in future chapters.

And yes, I'm sure other demons choose contracts that don't require them to actually be servants. Like, making someone rich, accompanying someone somewhere, getting them stuff, etc.

#my fics #black butler #kuroshitsuji #sebastian michaelis #sebaciel

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vrishchikawrites · 1 year

Note

I don't get why there's so much hate for JC. Fanon JC is still JC and there's realism to him too. Realism can be subjective but that doesn't mean its depiction is wrong or unrealistic. It is factually correct and righteous.

Are you new to the fandom? Because let me tell you, no one had a problem with JC until the fanon version of him started to pop up everywhere and people started to indirectly or directly undermine the series protags to lift him up.

And no one bothered to tag it. We don't care if you worship the ground JC walks on or relate with some of his character traits. We just don't want to read a fic for Wangxian only for everyone in the story to lift JC up, who is a canonical antagonist, and bash on WWX. Nothing was tagged. We just ended up being bombarded with fanon JC everywhere.

You know the feeling when you stumble across JC bashing and feel hurt because of it? Well, it happened all the time for us, without warning or consideration.

At some point, people started to rebel against the fanon narrative and started writing fics or seeking fics where THEIR FAVS AND CANON PROTAGS weren't needlessly bashed to just make JC rosy.

Do that if you want. But we reserve the right to create our own space without all of the elements undesirable to us. Which is why we choose to have a separate tag. That's why we generally mark our fics as not jc friendly.

Which isn't a courtesy given to us in return. We are expected to just deal with it because your interpretation of his character is more popular. We tag our posts and fics, you don't bother to do the same in return, and we end up stumbling over shit and have to work harder to keep our space clean because JC fans can't take the extra effort to just label their stuff properly.

The fact is simple. We're not interested in JC. We're not interested in redeeming him or elevating him, or worrying about his woes. In fact, we'd like to be as far away from that as possible.

But this fandom makes it *impossible* by not tagging things properly.

I'm not going to other people's inboxes and urging them to reconsider their stances on JC. I frankly don't care. I have loved bastard characters and antagonists that are worse than what JC can pull off in his lifetime. Itachi comes to mind, so does Aizen and Sesshoumaru, or Sephiroth.

Do your thing. But don't pretend this was started by us just because we didn't quietly submit to the popular stance on JC.

I won't argue on what's canon and what's not. We have done that to death already. At this point, I don't even care. I don't read fanfics directly, I just write them and read the books. There is no chance of me stumbling across a JC positive fic when I am reading only glittering or some other other I trust.

And there's no need to try to explain JC to me. I am a whole ass adult leading a relatively difficult but successful life. I know right from wrong pretty well.

#mdzs #reader asks #re: jc

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iwtvfanevents · 2 months

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A Challenge Every Sunset is run by a group of like-minded AMC IWTV fans, to foster creativity and positive engagement in this burgeoning fandom through events, prompts and challenges.

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navree · 9 months

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Why do you think Aegon the Conqueror couldn’t endure Visenya’s presence later in marriage during his reign as king? P.S. love your blog xoxo

Ah thank you, glad you like the varied ramblings <3

Honestly, it's entirely open to speculation as to why they fell out as spectacularly as they did. There is absolutely no documentation on how these two felt about each other at all, and the only mention we get that even approaches on anything touching the subject is the fact that there was an in-universe joke at Aegon's court that the reason why Visenya was put in charge of building the Red Keep was so that Aegon "would not have to endure her presence on Dragonstone". It's why I always say that any theorizing about the Conquerors always veers into straight headcanoning after a little bit, because we know so little that trying to extrapolate interpretations really just depends on how an individual perceives them as people and their relationships.

It could be that they were just never close and never really liked each other much, and as they got older were just less able to put that to the side and decided that the less they saw of each other, the better. If they already had a relationship fueled by enmity and never cared for each other, once they got what they needed from each other (an son in the form of Maegor, a spare to Aenys's heir for Aegon and a foothold in her own power for Visenya), they both agreed that they didn't need to spend any more time together and that it was best to split duties in order not to be in the same place at the same time. After all, when Aegon was an active ruler living in King's Landing with Aenys, Visenya and Maegor were at Dragonstone, and once Aegon decided to spend more time at Dragonstone while passing on most of his kingly duties to his son, he put Visenya in charge of the the Red Keep so that she'd be in King's Landing, still away from him (though Maegor was in residence on Dragonstone while he was there, which is a lot but also a matter for another time).

It could be that Visenya might have done something in those years to get on Aegon's bad side. Common perception in Westeros was that Visenya was the odd one out in her marriage, with the old saying like that "Aegon wed Visenya out of duty and Rhaenys out of desire." and the court noticing that "the king spent ten nights with Rhaenys for every night with Visenya" being very popular talking points not just in historical circles later, but contemporaneously while they were alive. With Rhaenys gone after her death in the First Dornish War, Aegon shooting down any suggestions that he take another wife, and Visenya then providing Aegon with a male child herself to disprove rumors that she was barren, Visenya was in the strongest position as a consort specifically than she had ever been since she got married. And Visenya might have let that get to her head, and since we know she wasn't shy not just about thinking Aenys an unfit king while he was actively reigning, but also about her opinions on Rhaenys herself, given that it was able to be recorded that "Queen Visenya thought her sister frivolous" (though I've discussed that quote and my thoughts surrounding it in detail and I do think it's more complicated than that), Visenya might have said some unkind things about Rhaenys that Aegon overheard. Maybe she mentioned Rhaenys's rumored infidelities (another thing I don't subscribe to personally) or just disparaged her as a person, or the fact that she died, and Aegon, who canonically never entirely got over what happened to his most beloved wife/baby sister, heard it and that led to a falling out that would eventually lead to being unable to endure having her even in the same part of the country as him.

It could also be that their grief over what happened to Rhaenys drove them apart. Grief is a really powerful thing, and it can sometimes create wounds that don't ever fully heal, especially if the grief is caused by an external factor, such as someone being killed by someone else's deliberate actions, for instance. It's why some couples end up divorced after the loss of a child, for example. It could honestly be that Rhaenys's death, already during a precarious time (in the middle of a war that wasn't going the exact way Aegon and Visenya wanted it to go), not to mention the way it created some immediate stressors for Aegon specifically in Aenys's mental breakdown and new worries for the succession, as well as weakening the Targaryens as a dynasty, might have just been too much to overcome, even once the war was over. Neither Aegon nor Visenya seem like people who were inclined to talk their feelings out or even try to vocalize them at all, simply preferring to internalize them, and that this meant they never communicated their needs to each other to try and be able to find peace with what happened to Rhaenys, and it ultimately drove them away from each other rather than bringing them closer together.

I do think, however, that the key thing to remember here is that the common elements that led to Aegon and Visenya being the way they were with each other later in life is that they were cold with each other, and grew more distant. That doesn't speak to them having a sudden argument and immediately hating each other, but a situation that got worse and worse over time. Which leads us into what I personally think went down.

My own personal theory, however, is a bit more complex. I've always viewed Rhaenys as having been the glue that held her family together, due to the fact that Visenya was never bothered by her inclusion in the marriage, Orys and her seemed to be quite friendly, and obviously Aegon adored her. So her unexpected and tragically early demise, especially in the way it happened (literally shot out of the sky and crashing to the ground amidst the death throes of her beloved dragon) affected both siblings deeply, possibly irreparably, like I mentioned above, though I do think it drew them closer together for a time when they were basically carpet bombing Dorne. And when Aegon made the seemingly unilateral choice to end the war with Dorne, in what appears to be direct defiance to Visenya's own desires ("Prince Nymor’s peace proposals encountered strong opposition in King’s Landing. Queen Visenya was hard set against them. “No peace without submission,” she declared, and her friends on the king’s council echoed her words."), I think Visenya was not only angry at the decision, but potentially offended that she wasn't taken into consideration as well as deeply hurt Aegon was willing to put what happened to Rhaenys in the past, considering Visenya was just as involved in the Dragon's Wroth, a direct response to Rhaenys's death motivated by grief and rage for it, as he was. And while I do think that Aegon had his own reasons for it*, I highly doubt that he shared those reasons with Visenya, so to her it looks like she was being treated not as the co-monarch she was, but just as a mere queen consort, which is insulting, and not given any consultation in a decision that involved not just the realm, but family as well, as Rhaenys was her sister too. So you now have two people I don't believe were ever super close, beyond the love that a brother and sister might have for each other, especially when compared to Aegon's relationships with Orys and Rhaenys, neither of whom were the kind of people capable or even equipped to either offer comfort to the other or express how they were feeling, and both heavily feeling a very profound loss that has affected the very fabric of how this family operates, now in a situation where they're drifting further away than they already might have organically due to circumstances that are never going to be addressed or rectified because of who they are as people. And this likely progressively got worse and worse as everything settled in, to the point of literally damaging Aegon's relationship with Maegor, that after a good few years it likely did get to the point of Aegon and Visenya not being able to stand being in the same city. And I do think it eventually became more Aegon based than Visenya based, considering that he was the one dealing with the most pressure and the most profound feelings about it, being a widower and having to take care of a kid who almost died as a result of all of this and living with the weight of his choices and being the primary source of governance for six out of seven kingdoms on an entire continent.

TL;DR There are a lot of reasons that generally depend on how you view the relationship between the two of them, but my own view is that the circumstances of Rhaenys's death in Dorne and Aegon's eventual decision to go for peace over Visenya's wishes exacerbated some already complex dynamics between the two of them into something genuinely unfixable and neither of them were willing or able to try. And thanks for loving the blog, hugs and kisses!!

*My pet theory has always been that Nymor's letter contained the revelation that Rhaenys had managed to survive Meraxes's fall (it's possible, given what we seen with Aegon II and Baela Targaryen later) and had until recently been in the possession of the Ullers, given that she was shot down over Hellholt, but that the Martells had taken custody of her and were sending her to Dragonstone so that Aegon could at least have her remains, if not outright get a chance to say goodbye, as she was likely still fatally injured. It explains why Aegon reacted so strongly to the letter, why he immediately flew to Dragonstone (to verify the truth, possibly say goodbye to Rhaenys if she was still alive when he arrived, and at least give her a proper Targaryen funeral), and why he was so willing to immediately agree to peace with Dorne and be on such good terms with the Martells later in his reign, realizing the kindness they did him with this and Aegon himself having likely already reached the conclusion that the war couldn't carry on. If Visenya found out that this was the reason, and that Aegon hadn't just made a decision without her input on something this massive but had denied her an opportunity for goodbye and closure with someone she loved dearly (as a sister and also in my other pet theory that Visenya was a lesbian and in love with Rhaenys too), then that's an added reason why she and Aegon grew further and further apart.

#personal #answered #anonymous #aegon targaryen #visenya targaryen #aegon the conqueror #visenya the conqueror #you know i always tell myself these responses aren't going to be as long as they are #but i'm glad that there is an audience for me and my blabber mouth #i just consume a lot of media in various forms and have a lot of thoughts and a tendency to speak in full paragraphs #and also adhd which means that i can get incredibly detailed on things that interest me

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